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LikeMike
04-26-2013, 09:02 PM
How do you grade the first selection in the first round?

Corrosion
04-26-2013, 09:04 PM
Only one other tackle left on the board that I think could start this season in Quessenberry .... Glad they got this pick out of the way.

TexansSeminole
04-26-2013, 09:40 PM
I give it an A because it is a fit as far as need, scheme, and position. He played RT in a zone blocking scheme, and was probably the most ready guy to compete now at RT that was available.

Fili
04-26-2013, 10:02 PM
Good tackle, but came of shoulder injury. 50/50 on Williams.

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2013, 10:24 PM
I think this guy is a Day 1 starter. He knows the basics of our scheme. And he's going to get a lot of work in the offseason in the OTAs, Mini-camps, and Training Camp with Newton injured.

I expect him to beat out Harris and start.

jppaul
04-26-2013, 10:38 PM
I thought he would have lasted till the fourth and would have preferred the other Williams, who I thought was the last DT with the skill set I wanted, but I think he is a talented player with Round 1 upside.

EllisUnit
04-26-2013, 10:39 PM
Watched his game against VT on youtube and he got beat A LOT....gonna watch the others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKEE-DzWaBM

Iceman16
04-26-2013, 11:33 PM
https://twitter.com/GREATBLACKOTAKU/

This guy is a fool. Look at him embarrassing himself on his Twitter account.

DX-TEX
04-26-2013, 11:35 PM
https://twitter.com/GREATBLACKOTAKU/

This guy is a fool. Look at him embarrassing himself on his Twitter account.

Not really. he is into games, anime and other "geeky" things. Let him have fun at least he isn't out getting wasted on purple drank or stealing laptops.

TexansSeminole
04-26-2013, 11:36 PM
https://twitter.com/GREATBLACKOTAKU/

This guy is a fool. Look at him embarrassing himself on his Twitter account.

How so?

b0ng
04-26-2013, 11:39 PM
https://twitter.com/GREATBLACKOTAKU/

This guy is a fool. Look at him embarrassing himself on his Twitter account.

This is a very good follow for you Twitter peeps.

arb729
04-26-2013, 11:54 PM
Brennan is from my hometown. Comes from a football pedigree, his father played for the Patriots. Real nice kid, played on a few basketball teams with him.

Ryan
04-27-2013, 12:03 AM
Not really. he is into games, anime and other "geeky" things. Let him have fun at least he isn't out getting wasted on purple drank or stealing laptops.

He follows Gianna Michaels on twitter. :tiphat:

The Pencil Neck
04-27-2013, 12:09 AM
He follows Gianna Michaels on twitter. :tiphat:

I like him better already.

jppaul
04-27-2013, 01:39 AM
Watched his game against VT on youtube and he got beat A LOT....gonna watch the others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKEE-DzWaBM

I watched that, seemed to do a pretty good job to me, saw him get beat for a sack hit the qb ran and it didn't look like he knew where he was. Saw execute some fairly difficult reach blocks did seen to have a little bit of a problem with the seal on the MLB on a couple runs up the middle but I would not say he got beat a lot. I'd rate his performance about a B.

rmartin65
04-27-2013, 07:15 AM
Has to be an A. A team always needs to be adding talent to the OL, ad Williams has a lot of talent. Late 3rd is pretty good value as well.

LikeMike
04-27-2013, 07:21 AM
Has to be an A. A team always needs to be adding talent to the OL, ad Williams has a lot of talent. Late 3rd is pretty good value as well.

This! Plus: in my opinion RT was about the biggest need for this team and we added someone that has a lot of experience in a zone blocking scheme. Behind Hopkins, Williams is my favorite pick so far.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2013, 10:46 AM
I think the Texans feel they can coach up talent on the OL . Because of this I think he could surprise us because he has some talent .

Goldensilence
04-27-2013, 11:19 AM
Good value in the third, could very well be a day one starter at RT. Big plus that he's familiar with the scheme and there's no concern about playing LT in college and moving to RT. More I think about it I think I should've given this pick an A.

PockyAF
04-27-2013, 11:40 AM
https://twitter.com/GREATBLACKOTAKU/

This guy is a fool. Look at him embarrassing himself on his Twitter account.

lol.

dude makes more money than you and get way more ******* than you.

umad?

76Texan
05-15-2013, 10:45 AM
Grade B
Still a bit raw but looks to have the athleticism to improve.
A bit concern about both his knees.
A late third round Olineman in the ZBS, IMO, should become a fairly solid starter.
Williams may or may not achieve that result.

Rey
05-15-2013, 10:56 AM
If he plays guard I'd give it an A.

As a tackle, I give him a B simply because he's going to have more work to do in order to become a starter IMO.

He looks very athletic, but his pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired and I don't want him out there getting Matt killed. Gonna need to get a lot more comfortable out there and he's going to need a whole lot of technique work.

76Texan
05-15-2013, 11:05 AM
If he plays guard I'd give it an A.

As a tackle, I give him a B simply because he's going to have more work to do in order to become a starter IMO.

He looks very athletic, but his pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired and I don't want him out there getting Matt killed. Gonna need to get a lot more comfortable out there and he's going to need a whole lot of technique work.

I know we've already agreed on Williams.
I don't mind him moving inside either, but right now the Texans probably want to find out which guy may work out at RT.

badboy
05-15-2013, 02:19 PM
I mocked him long time ago and he will become a monster. Love his long arms and eventually he could move to LT if needed. IMO, he and Q will replace 2 of three Mondek, Gardner and Harris. Williams will put a hurting on some of his opponents. Agree with 65 that he needs technique improvement but most rookies do. Hopefully Newton and Harris will maintain allowing him time.

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2013, 07:52 AM
Scout's Take: Maccagnan on T Brennan Williams (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Scouts-Take-Maccagnan-on-T-Brennan-Williams/45daa8a8-b920-410f-84c3-176b14a1b13e)


Texans director of college scouting Mike Maccagnan

“He had sort of an unusual season in the sense that he came into the season coming off a spring surgery, so when he first started the season, he was still rounding into shape, we kind of felt. Then, he played quite well. When you went back and watched 2011 tape on him from the previous season, I thought he played extremely well in 2011. Later in the (2012) season, he actually injured his shoulder, so he ended up getting surgery on his shoulder and then missing the remainder of the season. Sometimes, when kids have (those) sort of circumstances, they may slide a little bit in the draft, and we kind of felt that’s what happened with him to a degree. So we sort of felt good that at the end of the third round, a player of his caliber was still available. He’s obviously fine from a medical standpoint, did everything for his workout in the spring, and he (came) into mini-camp and done a nice job for us right out of the gate. From an ability standpoint, he’s a prototypical guy in terms of size and stature. He is a good athlete for the position. I think he probably has the ability to play left tackle. He may be better suited on the right side. CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST OF THE STORY

With it being the left shoulder that was operated on, I'd be more hesitant to put it under maximum stresses with end around pass blocking (most common reason for a tackle to suffer this type of injury.......arm being pushed backwards while it is extended/abducted) at this point in the left tackle position. At least for now, I would want to see him at right tackle where the right shoulder receives most of the game-time action.

76Texan
05-25-2013, 12:40 PM
Scout's Take: Maccagnan on T Brennan Williams (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Scouts-Take-Maccagnan-on-T-Brennan-Williams/45daa8a8-b920-410f-84c3-176b14a1b13e)


CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST OF THE STORY

With it being the left shoulder that was operated on, I'd be more hesitant to put it under maximum stresses with end around pass blocking (most common reason for a tackle to suffer this type of injury.......arm being pushed backwards while it is extended/abducted) at this point in the left tackle position. At least for now, I would want to see him at right tackle where the right shoulder receives most of the game-time action.

Well, he plays RT in college.
I think we expect the Texans draft him and Quessenberry to compete with Newton and Harris for the RT job.

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2013, 12:56 PM
Well, he plays RT in college.
I think we expect the Texans draft him and Quessenberry to compete with Newton and Harris for the RT job.

I agree with you. What I was getting at is, because of the side comment in the article about LT, that I don't believe at this point in time it would be wise to try to use him in any way as a swing (even occasionally at left).

ADDED: This may have been posted somewhere in the past. But here's a link to some video play of Williams in college as well as a separate interview which was interesting to listen to............showing that he was actively instilled with a mean trained killer instinct in his senior year.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013/4/16/4185162/nfl-draft-2013-seahawks-sleepers-t-brennan-williams-unc

thunderkyss
05-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Well, he plays RT in college.
I think we expect the Texans draft him and Quessenberry to compete with Newton and Harris for the RT job.

If the powers that be are smart, they won't wait until they need a LT to get someone who could play LT in a pinch. If we're going to get to the SuperBowl, we're going to need a great plan A, and a pretty good plan B.

76Texan
05-25-2013, 07:12 PM
If the powers that be are smart, they won't wait until they need a LT to get someone who could play LT in a pinch. If we're going to get to the SuperBowl, we're going to need a great plan A, and a pretty good plan B.

I think mostly it is due to Newton's injury and Harris' age.
Harris also has a history with injury that might recur (if I remember correctly.)

If both Williams and Quessenberry can stand upright, one of them might see some work at LT.
There's also Brandon Brooks who the Texans said they might try out at OT.

I don't think anything is written in stone yet.

thunderkyss
05-25-2013, 07:43 PM
I don't think anything is written in stone yet.

Ya think??

CloakNNNdagger
05-26-2013, 08:25 AM
If the powers that be are smart, they won't wait until they need a LT to get someone who could play LT in a pinch. If we're going to get to the SuperBowl, we're going to need a great plan A, and a pretty good plan B.

I think mostly it is due to Newton's injury and Harris' age.
Harris also has a history with injury that might recur (if I remember correctly.)

If both Williams and Quessenberry can stand upright, one of them might see some work at LT.
There's also Brandon Brooks who the Texans said they might try out at OT.

I don't think anything is written in stone yet.

Ya think??


After watching the RT/RG rotational experiment/mess from last year, I don't even want to think about what type of creative carousel we would see if G-d forbid (and no, I'm not predicting it) Duane Brown turfs for any significant period of time, and adds yet another question mark on the OL.:shots:

IDEXAN
05-26-2013, 09:19 AM
BRENNAN WILLIAMS, North Carolina (6-5 ˝, 314, 5.32, 3-4) - Three-year starter at RT. "Probably a good enough athlete to play left tackle," one scout said. "Really good on his feet. He tore up his shoulder at the end of the year, but if his shoulder's back he may go second round. Been around the game his whole life." Father, Brent, played DE for three teams from 1985-'95 and registered 45 ˝ sacks. Described by scouts as "quirky," "kind of an oddball" and "real bright but real eccentric." Scored 35 on the Wonderlic. "He's not a football guy, OK?" one scout said. "He's not. I don't think he cares about football, and he uses the injury history as an excuse. This kid is destined for mediocrity." From West Roxbury, Mass.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/draft19g-rt9i5uh-203726121.html
********
Draft guru Bob McGinn has these interesting and certainly not particularly positive remarks from one scout in his pre-Draft analysis of Williams.
All I can say is, guess we shall see ?

Honoring Earl 34
05-26-2013, 10:00 AM
BRENNAN WILLIAMS, North Carolina (6-5 ˝, 314, 5.32, 3-4) - Three-year starter at RT. "Probably a good enough athlete to play left tackle," one scout said. "Really good on his feet. He tore up his shoulder at the end of the year, but if his shoulder's back he may go second round. Been around the game his whole life." Father, Brent, played DE for three teams from 1985-'95 and registered 45 ˝ sacks. Described by scouts as "quirky," "kind of an oddball" and "real bright but real eccentric." Scored 35 on the Wonderlic. "He's not a football guy, OK?" one scout said. "He's not. I don't think he cares about football, and he uses the injury history as an excuse. This kid is destined for mediocrity." From West Roxbury, Mass.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/draft19g-rt9i5uh-203726121.html
********
Draft guru Bob McGinn has these interesting and certainly not particularly positive remarks from one scout in his pre-Draft analysis of Williams.
All I can say is, guess we shall see ?

High risk / high reward guy .

What I don't get is they say he's nasty on the field , it's just getting him there . :smiliepalm:

76Texan
05-26-2013, 10:12 AM
After watching the RT/RG rotational experiment/mess from last year, I don't even want to think about what type of creative carousel we would see if G-d forbid (and no, I'm not predicting it) Duane Brown turfs for any significant period of time, and adds yet another question mark on the OL.:shots:

Obviously, when you lose a good player, it's not easy to replace.
You do need a plan.

The Pats worked last year with a make-shift O-line.
It didn't stop them from as advancing far.

The Texans had two guys that were swing tackles: Harris and Newton.
Before Newton, there was Butler who was the swing tackle.
Newton was groomed on both sides.
Harris started at Notre Dame at RT as a Freshman, then was moved to LT the last 3 years.
He played RT in the Pros.

Myers played C in college, but he debuted at LG for the Broncos before moving back to C when Nalen was lost for the year.

Wade Smith had seen time at all 5 spots on the line in the NFL.
Some guys are more flexible than others.

Duane Brown actually struggled a bit playing all the snaps early on in his rookie season. It wasn't until the Texans rotate him with Salaam that they had better results.

The O-line play last year was a combination of things.
D Brown played well early on in pass pro. At one time (at least through 10 or 11 games), it was reported that he allowed a single sack.
He ended up with six.
The run game actually was terrible to left end early in the season.
I mentioned how Football Outsiders charted the Texans, and they averaged 1.9 ypc to left end.
Wade Smith was consistently inconsistent like the rest of them.
He was manhandled by Wilfork just the same as Ben Jones was.
Myers did not have a good year.

The right side of the line was inconsistent all year, but not any more than the other 3 spots.
Who knows, if Caldwell and Newton had been able to stay healthy, the right side could have been the bright spot.

Now, the Texans need to find along term solution at RT first since Harris can be the swing man; it's not like they don't have a plan B.

Newton, Williams, and Quessenberry, between those three, we need to find out which guy can be the long-term starter at RT.

thunderkyss
05-26-2013, 02:34 PM
After watching the RT/RG rotational experiment/mess from last year...

Kubiak mentioned before, that the rotation isn't about the players not being good enough, it's more about consistency. These young players lose track of what the team is trying to accomplish. Maybe it becomes about the guy in front of him, trying to win one on one battles. Maybe it becomes about himself, worried about screwing up on that last play, worried about getting his ass handed to him on the play before. Maybe he's worried about his friends watching him on TV, or his third cousin on his momma's side who sold the ticket he gave him.

It wasn't about finding out what works, it was more about protecting the player (his mental preparation) they are developing for the spot. Same thing we did with Duane Brown, Mike Briesel, Kareem Jackson, and still working through with Brandon Harris & our WRs.

AngryNateFTW
05-26-2013, 03:10 PM
BRENNAN WILLIAMS, North Carolina (6-5 ˝, 314, 5.32, 3-4) - Three-year starter at RT. "Probably a good enough athlete to play left tackle," one scout said. "Really good on his feet. He tore up his shoulder at the end of the year, but if his shoulder's back he may go second round. Been around the game his whole life." Father, Brent, played DE for three teams from 1985-'95 and registered 45 ˝ sacks. Described by scouts as "quirky," "kind of an oddball" and "real bright but real eccentric." Scored 35 on the Wonderlic. "He's not a football guy, OK?" one scout said. "He's not. I don't think he cares about football, and he uses the injury history as an excuse. This kid is destined for mediocrity." From West Roxbury, Mass.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/draft19g-rt9i5uh-203726121.html
********
Draft guru Bob McGinn has these interesting and certainly not particularly positive remarks from one scout in his pre-Draft analysis of Williams.
All I can say is, guess we shall see ?

He likes anime comics. So what. Every player has odd things that they do.

Ben Jones eats grass and roaches.

This above post is obviously directed at the guy from the article.

Texan_Bill
05-28-2013, 07:09 PM
I give the pick anywhere from an "A" to an "F".... :swatter:


Being coy aside, I find it ludicrous to place a draft grade on any pick until the player being discussed actually plays a down in the NFL...... or not.

People hated "the reach" that Duane Brown was but OTOH some were excited about the Benny Joppru pick... Go figure. :kitten:

thunderkyss
05-28-2013, 08:16 PM
Being coy aside, I find it ludicrous to place a draft grade on any pick until the player being discussed actually plays a down in the NFL...... or not.


:yawn:

beerlover
05-28-2013, 08:25 PM
I give the pick anywhere from an "A" to an "F".... :swatter:


Being coy aside, I find it ludicrous to place a draft grade on any pick until the player being discussed actually plays a down in the NFL...... or not.

People hated "the reach" that Duane Brown was but OTOH some were excited about the Benny Joppru pick... Go figure. :kitten:

Your right its ludicrous for those who don't know ****. Brennan has an injury history that followed him to Houston & your also right who knows how that all works out, which is probably why they moved up to grab another OT. Gee go figure.

rmartin65
05-28-2013, 08:26 PM
I give the pick anywhere from an "A" to an "F".... :swatter:


Being coy aside, I find it ludicrous to place a draft grade on any pick until the player being discussed actually plays a down in the NFL...... or not.

People hated "the reach" that Duane Brown was but OTOH some were excited about the Benny Joppru pick... Go figure. :kitten:

You want to know what I find ludicrous? People going into a thread titled "Draft Grade" and bitching about people grading drafts. Nobody is making you vote, TB. Nobody is making you click on the thread, TB. Nobody is making you read the thread, TB. If you don't want to participate in the thread, don't participate. It's pretty ****ing simple.

Rey
05-29-2013, 09:03 AM
Being coy aside, I find it ludicrous to place a draft grade on any pick until the player being discussed actually plays a down in the NFL...... or not.

How hard is it to not click on a link?

There are tons of threads on here and you come into the one that you find ludicrous when it is clearly labeled as a draft grade thread?

And how is this different from giving your opinion on anything else that you don't know the outcome of? It's just a prediction.

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2013, 08:59 PM
I think mostly it is due to Newton's injury and Harris' age.
Harris also has a history with injury that might recur (if I remember correctly.)

If both Williams and Quessenberry can stand upright, one of them might see some work at LT.
There's also Brandon Brooks who the Texans said they might try out at OT.

I don't think anything is written in stone yet.

Offensive tackle Brennan Williams' father, Brent Williams, had an 11-year career with New England, Seattle and the New York Jets. Williams was asked the significance of following in his father's footsteps. "It was extremely important," he said. "It was an expectation that we always had to make it to this level. I'm truly blessed to be where I am today, but now it's time for me to carve out my own footsteps."

The Texans drafted Williams to compete on the right side with Derek Newton, last year's starter who's coming off surgery to repair a patellar tendon in his knee. "If he comes out and wins the position outright, great," offensive line coach John Benton said. "If not, he's got to learn to play left (tackle), too. That's how it works." - The Sports Xchange

Playoffs
06-01-2013, 09:06 PM
Williams needs to get out of the tub. Missing important time.

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2013, 09:52 PM
Williams needs to get out of the tub. Missing important time.

If he doesn't play in minicamp, he likely has suffered a meniscus tear that they are trying to treat nonsurgically.

IDEXAN
06-01-2013, 09:58 PM
If he doesn't play in minicamp, he likely has suffered a meniscus tear that they are trying to treat nonsurgically.
So is there much of a chance this injury could end up being serious enough to
be season-ending for Williams ?

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2013, 10:13 PM
So is there much of a chance this injury could end up being serious enough to
be season-ending for Williams ?

If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.

thunderkyss
06-01-2013, 10:32 PM
So is there much of a chance this injury could end up being serious enough to
be season-ending for Williams ?

I'm sure there's a chance. Especially if the Texans aren't smart about his treatment & rehab.

However, right now we don't know the extent of his injury. CnD is stating that if Brennan isn't participating in minicamp, that would be another clue to Williams' injury.

badboy
06-01-2013, 10:34 PM
If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.So this is inaccurate?

Williams, who will compete for the Texans' starting right tackle job this season, left the morning rookie mini-camp practice early with a knee injury. He had an MRI that revealed no major damage and will resume football activities next week.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-rookie-T-Brennan-Williams-fine-after-MRI-on-knee/ed7bbe0e-f23b-4d64-90e4-0c1d0d1c38ea

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2013, 10:45 PM
So this is inaccurate?

Williams, who will compete for the Texans' starting right tackle job this season, left the morning rookie mini-camp practice early with a knee injury. He had an MRI that revealed no major damage and will resume football activities next week.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-rookie-T-Brennan-Williams-fine-after-MRI-on-knee/ed7bbe0e-f23b-4d64-90e4-0c1d0d1c38ea

"No major damage" (or as has been referred to previously "injury which will not require surgery")doesn't rule out lesser damage. Note that the date of the above report was May 11........over 2 weeks ago.

badboy
06-01-2013, 10:48 PM
Note that the date of the above report was May 11........over 2 weeks ago.exactly did I miss something? Did he not return? I cannot find anything more recent & guess I just missed. Even reread this thread.

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2013, 10:55 PM
exactly did I miss something? Did he not return? I cannot find anything more recent & guess I just missed. Even reread this thread.

There are no reports of his participation in last week's OTAs that I am aware of.

badboy
06-01-2013, 11:10 PM
did not see any mention of him being out and just assumed he was ok or being given a bit more time to heal.

Playoffs
06-01-2013, 11:29 PM
"May return next week."

tru80texan
06-02-2013, 12:23 AM
exactly did I miss something? Did he not return? I cannot find anything more recent & guess I just missed. Even reread this thread.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-wrap-up-2nd-week-of-OTAs/e06f8ef9-1639-48ac-9d34-6f8940fa7f82

Still rehabbing. Not practicing, could return next week according to the link provided above.

Wolf
06-02-2013, 12:39 AM
But Jerrah had a 5th round grade based on his leaked pics :kitten:

badboy
06-04-2013, 04:05 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-wrap-up-2nd-week-of-OTAs/e06f8ef9-1639-48ac-9d34-6f8940fa7f82

Still rehabbing. Not practicing, could return next week according to the link provided above.

Ok thanks to you and playoffs. Last comments I saw by Kubiak mentioned some injured players but not Williams. Hopefully he is doing well.

Playoffs
06-04-2013, 09:15 PM
RT Williams thinks he'll miss rest of spring (http://www.csnhouston.com/football-houston-texans/talk/rt-williams-thinks-hell-miss-rest-spring)

“I think I’m close,” Williams said. “I think I’m going to run out of time before I’m actually cleared to play. I think I’m going to be fine. I think we’re going to be out of minicamp by the time they say, ‘Go ahead and do everything.’”

Texan_Bill
06-04-2013, 09:36 PM
A) How hard is it to not click on a link?

B) There are tons of threads on here and you come into the one that you find ludicrous when it is clearly labeled as a draft grade thread?

And how is this different from giving your opinion on anything else that you don't know the outcome of? C) It's just a prediction.

A) Well, that would be the dumbest thing ever considering dude has never played a down.

B) Yes.... There are tons of threads on here and yes I come into the one (or many) where I think it's ludicrous to give a draft grade on some unknown commodity.
--------------------> I.E. Duane Brown. How stupid was it for anyone to give him less than an A+ although many said he was a "reach, at best".

C) I get you on the "It's just a prediction" thing, but some things are more predictable than others. Case in point, property and small business taxes going up v. the success of Ryan Leaf, Vince Young or Jamunchies Ruffles succeeding.

So... I feel ya. :rolleyes:

thunderkyss
06-05-2013, 09:34 AM
B) Yes.... There are tons of threads on here and yes I come into the one (or many) where I think it's ludicrous to give a draft grade on some unknown commodity.
--------------------> I.E. Duane Brown. How stupid was it for anyone to give him less than an A+ although many said he was a "reach, at best".


I bet Kubiak, Smith, & Dennison had a grade on Duane Brown before he did jack in the NFL.

I bet they had a grade on Brennan Williams as well. Just Like Brown's I bet that grade changes as time goes on.

Rey
06-05-2013, 10:16 AM
A) Well, that would be the dumbest thing ever considering dude has never played a down.

B) Yes.... There are tons of threads on here and yes I come into the one (or many) where I think it's ludicrous to give a draft grade on some unknown commodity.
--------------------> I.E. Duane Brown. How stupid was it for anyone to give him less than an A+ although many said he was a "reach, at best".

C) I get you on the "It's just a prediction" thing, but some things are more predictable than others. Case in point, property and small business taxes going up v. the success of Ryan Leaf, Vince Young or Jamunchies Ruffles succeeding.

So... I feel ya. :rolleyes:

Look, it's a prediction based on how a person feels about a prospect.






But thanks for pointing out that sometimes the predictions are wrong.

I'm sure we'll all keep that enlightening information in mind as we move forward in our evaluations and daily life as this revelation is absolutely shocking and new to me.





Signed,

The human race

The Pencil Neck
06-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Yeah. I had an issue with grading a draft for awhile.

But then I realized what the real purpose of it is. It's a way for someone to say, "I think this group of players is going to perform at such and such a level based on my expectations. I think that this team improved itself based on my perception of the team's needs and the players' abilities." It's a way for someone to say, "I think these teams improved and these teams got worse."

I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a totally subjective grade (as most grades on players and drafts are even after all the players have played out their careers.) After 3 or 4 years, you can still grade it but it's still going to be subjective and different people are still going to come out with wildly different grades.

thunderkyss
06-05-2013, 04:31 PM
Yeah. I had an issue with grading a draft for awhile.

I never understood why anyone would take issue with it. Every year, for as long as there's been a draft these players are scrutinized, graded, & ranked.

That's why we're thrilled when we get a first round WR as opposed to a 4th, that's why we're happy when we get a LT in the first as opposed to the bottom of the third.

Whether we know it or not, admit it or not, we all value 1st round players more than 6th round players. We take offense when someone says our first round LT is graded as a 2nd round prospect, because our grade is much more generous than that.

We love that our 3rd round OLB had a 1st round grade, makes us feel like our team got a deal... or at least true value.

The Pencil Neck
06-05-2013, 04:35 PM
I never understood why anyone would take issue with it. Every year, for as long as there's been a draft these players are scrutinized, graded, & ranked.

Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.

Rey
06-05-2013, 04:39 PM
And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.

Exactly...

I don't think anyone that grades drafts here is under the impression that their grade is the final say.



If someone graded Duane Brown as a C when he was drafted...Ok...They were wrong...Really wrong...

But we're all wrong at times. It's just predictions based on what you think you know.

Rey
06-05-2013, 04:46 PM
I never understood why anyone would take issue with it.

I don't either.

This really isn't a difficult concept. People either like the pick based on their perception of it, or they don't like the pick...Or they simply don't know/have no opinion yet

If you like it you give it a grade based on how much you like it. If you don't like it...same applies...

And if you're one of those people that have no opinion on the picks...Then you just don't have an opinion...

That's why there is no consensus on draft grades...

You evaluate players before the draft...Aterwards once you see where they were selected you grade the selection based on what you think of said player. It's no different than any other analysis or prediction when it comes to player evaluation. If you don't like the draft grades after the draft, then I don't understand what interest you'd have in the evaluations before the draft. It's the same damned thing.

But if you do enjoy reading other's analysis of players just take it with a grain of salt and enjoy seeing someone else's perspective. We're going to be evaluating this team for a long time and if you don't like projections then this place probably isn't good for your health.

No need to passively bash people that have an opinion by stating that having an opinion on the matter is ludicrous. If you don't like projections and opinions just stay out and keep the thread clear for those that enjoy that type of thing. Please.

ChampionTexan
06-05-2013, 05:05 PM
Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.

I don't know if this makes sense, but while I don't see a problem in grading the players (it's kind of necessary if they're to be selected in any other manner than completely random), I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.

Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.

There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.

The Pencil Neck
06-05-2013, 06:07 PM
I don't know if this makes sense, but while I don't see a problem in grading the players (it's kind of necessary if they're to be selected in any other manner than completely random), I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.

Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.

There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.

Yeah, but you're saying you know the team/scheme needs and the players drafted better than the professionals either way. And that's one way to look at it but I still think it's better to look at it like... "Because of this draft, I believe this team has improved" or not. It's just a prediction of how that team should do in the future based on the sum of the predictions of the performance of the players chosen.

ObsiWan
06-05-2013, 06:12 PM
Well, the problem with it is... how can you grade something when you don't know how good they are, yet? And the answer is that you're not grading how good they are, you're grading how good you think they're going to be.

Hmmmm... see I was looking at the draft grade thing from a different angle. I was thinking the grade represented
(1) how well our team did addressing a need,
(2) how well the draftee fit that need, and
(3) how that draftee stacked up against all the other folks available who could have filled said need.

And you can make those assessments without the draftee ever having played a single down.

thunderkyss
06-05-2013, 06:32 PM
I have a problem in grading the drafts themselves.


I understand.


Every front office selects the player that they believe will help their team the most (well, except maybe the Raiders), and by definition, the overall group selected is one the selecting team feels good about as a whole. Essentially by grading the entire thing as a C or D (or theoretically even a B), you're saying that you know more about both the players selected, as well as the team needs than the front office does.


I agree with a lot of this. Which is why my problem with draft grades isn't so much about the grading, but more about who is doing the grading. I'm fine with McShay, Kipper, or Mayock giving their player analysis, player rankings, or player grades.

But I don't like it when guys like that give a draft grade. They have no idea how an NFL team works. How an NFL team assesses their own talent, their needs, the development of their team, who's coming along next season, who's not. Who they plan to resign... all kinds of things & then, how the team proceeds from there.

I'd rather see a John McClain draft grade than a Mayock..... not that I do not respect Mayock, but he couldn't give two flips about the Texans, at least not until we win the Super Bowl. McClain... I'd like to see how out of touch he is with the Texans.


There may be occasions where that's correct (cough, Casserly, cough), and there may be front offices who for one reason or another just aren't very good at what they do, so low grading them is always safe (see previous Raiders comment), but by and large, I'm not going to pay much attention to media members, analysts, or just guys in front of a computer telling me team 1 gets a B+, team 2 gets a C, and team 3 gets a D-. Again, grading the players is a necessity and that's obviously before the fact, but I don't really think there's anyone able to intelligently grade the draft as a whole. That's simply a matter of giving it time.

Exactly, but I do like listening to draft analysis from Casserly & Lombardi & Billick, & Mooch & those guys. I even like listening to analysis from Jamie Dukes & Dione Sanders. At least they know what it smells like on the inside of a locker room.

The Pencil Neck
06-06-2013, 01:25 AM
Hmmmm... see I was looking at the draft grade thing from a different angle. I was thinking the grade represented
(1) how well our team did addressing a need,
(2) how well the draftee fit that need, and
(3) how that draftee stacked up against all the other folks available who could have filled said need.

And you can make those assessments without the draftee ever having played a single down.

I don't think you CAN make those assessments until after the player has played. You can make predictions but they're only how you, personally, feel about the players. And that's what the draft grade ends up being... what YOU think the needs are, how YOU think the draftees fill those needs, and how YOU think other players that were available would have fit better.

Personally, this year I would have rated the ILB a higher priority than Smithiak did and I would have gone after an ILB... but I can't really say how these guys would have fit into Wade's schemes and I couldn't really say whether moving Brooks Reed to the middle was an option.

After seeing the way our draft fell, it looks to me like moving Brooks Reed inside was part of the plan all along. That's not the way I would have played it but I'm OK with that strategy.

beerlover
06-06-2013, 02:08 AM
I don't get this contention reverberating throughout these forums in regards to draft grades. It's just for fun & to express ones opinions not unlike anything else here discussed. I haven't graded Brennan per say even though he fell perfectly slot wise where Texans drafted him & what they needed. My concern is his health & ability to show up on a consistent basis Sunday to Sunday to Monday to Thursday back to Sunday again. Dude is a starting caliber RT in the NFL but there is that big IF. Because of that I would give the edge to Quessenberry. Regardless what position he ends up playing (my guess is LG) he will garner more snaps per season & enhance his position on the team.

:wesmantexanfan:

steelbtexan
06-06-2013, 07:47 AM
I don't get this contention reverberating throughout these forums in regards to draft grades. It's just for fun & to express ones opinions not unlike anything else here discussed. I haven't graded Brennan per say even though he fell perfectly slot wise where Texans drafted him & what they needed. My concern is his health & ability to show up on a consistent basis Sunday to Sunday to Monday to Thursday back to Sunday again. Dude is a starting caliber RT in the NFL but there is that big IF. Because of that I would give the edge to Quessenberry. Regardless what position he ends up playing (my guess is LG) he will garner more snaps per season & enhance his position on the team.

:wesmantexanfan:

Some people dont know how to take different opinions than their own in this section. This section is very different than the draft section, where differing opinions are embrace.

If Williams is healthy, (Big if) he's the Texans starting RT. Very talented guy. Quessenberry could start at RT and be better than Newton/Harris was last yr. IMHO But Quessenberry has a chance to be an outstanding OG and will probably replace W.Smith in 2014.

ObsiWan
06-06-2013, 07:49 AM
I don't think you CAN make those assessments until after the player has played. You can make predictions but they're only how you, personally, feel about the players. And that's what the draft grade ends up being... what YOU think the needs are, how YOU think the draftees fill those needs, and how YOU think other players that were available would have fit better.

Personally, this year I would have rated the ILB a higher priority than Smithiak did and I would have gone after an ILB... but I can't really say how these guys would have fit into Wade's schemes and I couldn't really say whether moving Brooks Reed to the middle was an option.

After seeing the way our draft fell, it looks to me like moving Brooks Reed inside was part of the plan all along. That's not the way I would have played it but I'm OK with that strategy.

But what you outlined is a different grading system or criteria. What I'm speaking to is how perceived needs were met or failed to be met.

How many players actually stick with the team, make significant contributions, and/or become solid starters is a totally different assessment. And that one cannot be made until the season starts. Sometimes not for 2,3, or 4 yrs down the line. Duane Brown and K.Jax spring immediately to mind. Those picks look a helluva lot better now than they did at draft time (D.B's case) or after the rookie year (K.Jax case).

The draft grading I'm talking about is much simpler. It boils down to this: Did we address team needs as best we could in the order the grading person thought they should have been addressed?

For example... More than one poster thought we should go NT, WR, and/or ILB early on. We didn't; at least not completely. To those folks, if they stay true to their draft thinking, this draft was only partially successful. We got our WR but only partially addressed ILB by getting pass rushers so Brooks could go inside and totally failed to address NT.

However, if 4-6 out of the 10 guys we drafted end up contributing significantly and/or become solid starters for years to come (and team performance doesn't suffer), then the draft could be considered a success even though no NTs or ILBs were picked.

All that to say, there's more than one way to view this draft grading thing.

thunderkyss
06-06-2013, 08:46 AM
All that to say, there's more than one way to view this draft grading thing.

I don't watch college football. But everyone knows that I'm a diehard Texans fan. After the draft I get people asking me how I thought the draft was.

I tell them I don't have a clue who the players are, but the guys who know their sht on TT.com think we've got a good haul, or that we got value, or that we may have reached, or that we didn't get what we needed, or whatever....

Draft grades help me not only form an opinion of our draft, but also "see" where our team is heading.

HOU-TEX
06-06-2013, 08:50 AM
Considering he's been on the field all of an hour or two, I'd give his 1st three week quiz a D-.

Playoffs
07-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Drew Dougherty ‏@DoughertyDrew
If Williams is on PUP after 2nd roster cut, he will remain on PUP until at least day after conclusion of Week 6. Couldn't play until Week 7.

Williams can take part in contact drills during camp if he's pulled off PUP.

With #Texans OL Brennan Williams on PUP, he's limited to non-contact work w/club trainer or physician, and can attend meetings.

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
So #Texans can take Williams off PUP if he gets healthy during camp. Whether he needs to be on it to start season can be determined later.

James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN
The active/PUP list for TC & the reserve/PUP list during the regular season are different. A player on active/PUP can be removed at any time
PDS ‏@PatDStat
Did see Williams in mandatory mini camp. He was working well on the side field, and running. #Texans

Would expect to see Gardner and Quessenberry to also work at RT too. #Texans

#Texans will shift around again at RT. Newton and Harris will be doing the same thing like last season.

Brennan Williams to Start the Season on the PUP

steelbtexan
07-24-2013, 11:19 AM
Another one of those injuries that Gary calls minor that turns out to be anything but minor. Next time Gary says an injury is minor you have to assume that he is talking out his butt. Or he's a dumba** who doesn't know what the Dr.'s are telling him.

That, or the Texans medical team is incompetent.

Playoffs
07-24-2013, 12:23 PM
Another one of those injuries that Gary calls minor that turns out to be anything but minor. Next time Gary says an injury is minor you have to assume that he is talking out his butt. Or he's a dumba** who doesn't know what the Dr.'s are telling him.

That, or the Texans medical team is incompetent.

To be fair, the player was saying he was so close to being cleared that he'll just miss OTAs with supposed support from an MRI, then he ends up getting the knee scoped.

Wolf6151
07-24-2013, 02:01 PM
I know BW wasn't supposed to be a starter this year but each year we've seen the importance of O-line depth and some extensive playing time this season is important for his development. Missing OTAs and minicamp just puts him further and further behind. I fear BW will spend his first year in the NFL on either the PUP list or practice squad. And what is it with 3rd round picks the past couple years, we either drafting poorly or just terribly unlucky with the amount of productivity we're getting from them. I expect more from 3rd round picks. I also agree with SteelB when it comes to Kubiak's statements regarding player injuries.

CloakNNNdagger
07-24-2013, 02:25 PM
If he doesn't play in minicamp, he likely has suffered a meniscus tear that they are trying to treat nonsurgically.

He missed minicamp......

If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.

"No major damage" (or as has been referred to previously "injury which will not require surgery")doesn't rule out lesser damage. Note that the date of the above report was May 11........over 2 weeks ago.

His injury was again greater than what they initially assessed that it was........he required surgery......

To be fair, the player was saying he was so close to being cleared that he'll just miss OTAs with supposed support from an MRI, then he ends up getting the knee scoped.

He will be a rookie that will have missed the most part of the offseason/preseason..........Honestly, how valuable can he be even if he returns to this team later this season since he can't practice with the team during preseason and/or season PUP for whatever reason?

HOU-TEX
07-24-2013, 02:28 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Rey. If he isn't on the field within the first week or so of camp, I think he'll be IR'd. Kubiak tends to stash a player or two on IR every year and BW's presently a perfect candidate.

Playoffs
07-24-2013, 02:34 PM
He will be a rookie that will have missed the most part of the offseason/preseason..........Honestly, how valuable can he be even if he returns to this team later this season since he can't practice with the team during preseason and/or season PUP for whatever reason?

I wouldn't look for him to sniff a chance to play until the last third of the season at the earliest, and then only in rotation. A virtual loss of most of the season.

HOU-TEX
07-24-2013, 02:51 PM
I hate to say it.....but we need Winston in a major way right now. IMO, Newton and Harris are not the answer. Is Quess, the 6th rounder, the answer? Doubt any time soon

IDEXAN
07-24-2013, 02:51 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Rey. If he isn't on the field within the first week or so of camp, I think he'll be IR'd. Kubiak tends to stash a player or two on IR every year and BW's presently a perfect candidate.
Maybe, But RT is such a big question mark for the Texans and they have more invested in Williams than any other RT prospect on their roster at this time. Kubiak might be extraordinarily patient and deliberate with him given how tenuous the Texans current DC is at RT ?

Brisco_County
07-25-2013, 12:17 AM
He missed minicamp......





His injury was again greater than what they initially assessed that it was........he required surgery......



He will be a rookie that will have missed the most part of the offseason/preseason..........Honestly, how valuable can he be even if he returns to this team later this season since he can't practice with the team during preseason and/or season PUP for whatever reason?

Do we have an idea of the date or week that surgery occurred? What's the timeframe for recovery?

The second roster cut is August 31st. After that, he's IR'd. Before that date, he misses most of camp, and is IR'd anyway.

How the hell does someone get himself IR'd on the first day of OTA's?

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2013, 08:52 AM
Do we have an idea of the date or week that surgery occurred? What's the timeframe for recovery?

The second roster cut is August 31st. After that, he's IR'd. Before that date, he misses most of camp, and is IR'd anyway.

How the hell does someone get himself IR'd on the first day of OTA's?

His surgery occurred the end of the first week of June. IDEALLY he could be released to practice (non-contact) ~ beginning to mid August.........that's if he were able to maintain a semblance of conditioning to that point. It is obvious to all reporting, that at already at ~7 weeks post op he is nowhere close to appearing in shape. Conditioning for a big man is not an overnight, or one or two week endeavor. Even if he is released to "practice" one to two weeks prior to the beginning of the season, again I ask how much can he make up for essentially no previous experience in an unforgiving synchronous ZBS offensive line? Can you really afford to lose a roster spot just hoping that you might get "some" contribution...............from a rookie, as opposed to a vet who knows how to best handle such a situation. Even for a vet, it would be a challenge.........for a rookie who has little "clue" from the very beginning, this would more likely to be an insurmountable task.

steelbtexan
07-25-2013, 09:17 AM
His surgery occurred the end of the first week of June. IDEALLY he could be released to practice (non-contact) ~ beginning to mid August.........that's if he were able to maintain a semblance of conditioning to that point. It is obvious to all reporting, that at already at ~7 weeks post op he is nowhere close to appearing in shape. Conditioning for a big man is not an overnight, or one or two week endeavor. Even if he is released to "practice" one to two weeks prior to the beginning of the season, again I ask how much can he make up for essentially no previous experience in an unforgiving synchronous ZBS offensive line? Can you really afford to lose a roster spot just hoping that you might get "some" contribution...............from a rookie, as opposed to a vet who knows how to best handle such a situation. Even for a vet, it would be a challenge.........for a rookie who has little "clue" from the very beginning, this would more likely to be an insurmountable task.

Well, he did play in the ZBS at North Carolina. LOL

HOU-TEX
07-25-2013, 09:25 AM
I hate to say it.....but we need Winston in a major way right now. IMO, Newton and Harris are not the answer. Is Quess, the 6th rounder, the answer? Doubt any time soon

Well, I guess we didn't want him at all. Signed with the Cards for close to vet minimum.

Rey
07-25-2013, 09:33 AM
Well, I guess we didn't want him at all. Signed with the Cards for close to vet minimum.

He said the Texans never showed any interest in bringing him in.

DX-TEX
07-25-2013, 09:43 AM
He said the Texans never showed any interest in bringing him in.

Good

HOU-TEX
07-25-2013, 09:44 AM
He said the Texans never showed any interest in bringing him in.

I was never really high on him either, but it's hard getting fired up about what we currently have at RT.

Rey
07-25-2013, 10:07 AM
Honestly, I think with the guys we have a competent starter will be found. I'm not all that concerned about the RT position tbh.

ChampionTexan
07-25-2013, 10:16 AM
I was never really high on him either, but it's hard getting fired up about what we currently have at RT.

Agreed, although I think there might be some potential upside to Newton, I just hope 2013 is better than 2012 as far as RT goes. Fortunately that's not setting the bar particularly high.

As far as Winston goes, while I never thought the Texans would be where he ended up, I did think he'd get more interest (and more money) than he ended up getting. I didn't think he'd be on the FA market very long - obviously that was way wrong.

Rey
07-25-2013, 10:23 AM
I think folks are way too hard on Newton. Yeah he had some rough moments, but the dude was not out there just getting pwned left and right. For his first year starting he was actually ok. Not as good as you'd want from the position, but the dude didn't completely suck.

I'm more worried about his injury recovery than I am about his actual ability.

And I also really like Quess for RT. I'm not sure if he's ready this year, but I honestly wouldn't be shocked.

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2013, 11:12 AM
I think folks are way too hard on Newton. Yeah he had some rough moments, but the dude was not out there just getting pwned left and right. For his first year starting he was actually ok. Not as good as you'd want from the position, but the dude didn't completely suck.

I'm more worried about his injury recovery than I am about his actual ability.

And I also really like Quess for RT. I'm not sure if he's ready this year, but I honestly wouldn't be shocked.

The typical history of a patella tendon tear/rupture is that there is usually a long-standing chronic inflammation of the tendon (tendonitis). Without adequate conservative treatment which most importantly involves adequate REST from the repetitive traumatic movements (overuse syndrome) that caused it to begin with, the tendon eventually weakens to the point that it tears/ruptures.

I go through this explanation just to say that it is very likely that Newton's performance was negatively affected long before he went on to require his patella tendon surgery, and that we probably did not appreciate what he was truly capable of last year. That being said, this type of surgery is a difficult recovery for any player, and for many reasons can be especially unpredictable as far as time of return and ultimate level of return for a "big" man.

IDEXAN
07-25-2013, 11:47 AM
And I also really like Quess for RT. I'm not sure if he's ready this year, but I honestly wouldn't be shocked.
I saw him play in the Senior Bowl, including the week of practice with one-on-one drills leading up to the game, and he was impressive. So why do you think he fell all of the way to the sixth round ?

Brisco_County
07-25-2013, 12:42 PM
The typical history of a patella tendon tear/rupture is that there is usually a long-standing chronic inflammation of the tendon (tendonitis). Without adequate conservative treatment which most importantly involves adequate REST from the repetitive traumatic movements (overuse syndrome) that caused it to begin with, the tendon eventually weakens to the point that it tears/ruptures.

I go through this explanation just to say that it is very likely that Newton's performance was negatively affected long before he went on to require his patella tendon surgery, and that we probably did not appreciate what he was truly capable of last year. That being said, this type of surgery is a difficult recovery for any player, and for many reasons can be especially unpredictable as far as time of return and ultimate level of return for a "big" man.

Not to mention getting back in shape for zone blocking. He's going to have to bust ass in August.

ChampionTexan
07-26-2013, 09:17 AM
Back on active roster as of last evening.
Two rookie third-round picks – offensive tackle Brennan Williams and outside linebacker Sam Montgomery – were moved to the active roster. Williams had been on preseason PUP and Montgomery on the non-football injury list because he reported out of shape.
LINK (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/arian-foster-ed-reed-will-start-training-camp-on-pup-list/)

drs23
07-26-2013, 10:44 AM
Back on active roster as of last evening.

LINK (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/07/arian-foster-ed-reed-will-start-training-camp-on-pup-list/)

Anyone know what's up with Sharpton being on the NFI list? That kid seems to be made of glass.

CloakNNNdagger
07-26-2013, 02:32 PM
His surgery occurred the end of the first week of June. IDEALLY he could be released to practice (non-contact) ~ beginning to mid August.........that's if he were able to maintain a semblance of conditioning to that point. It is obvious to all reporting, that at already at ~7 weeks post op he is nowhere close to appearing in shape. Conditioning for a big man is not an overnight, or one or two week endeavor. Even if he is released to "practice" one to two weeks prior to the beginning of the season, again I ask how much can he make up for essentially no previous experience in an unforgiving synchronous ZBS offensive line? Can you really afford to lose a roster spot just hoping that you might get "some" contribution...............from a rookie, as opposed to a vet who knows how to best handle such a situation. Even for a vet, it would be a challenge.........for a rookie who has little "clue" from the very beginning, this would more likely to be an insurmountable task.


And if you are referring to Cushing's patellar tendon surgery recovery in comparison to Newton's???...............Cushing underwent the surgery in Jan 2011...........he didn't return to play until the end of August As I've said before, this is a tough surgery rehab for anyone..........but much more so for a "big man" such as Newton. I stay very skeptical that Newton returns anytime soon, and once he does return I will still be concerned how quickly he is truly contributory and to what extend he regains level of performance.

Playoffs
07-30-2013, 06:47 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Williams finished morning practice but told trainers his knee was bothering him.

Rookie OT Brennan Williams is getting MRI on knee that was scoped and kept him out of offseason program.

Marc Vandermeer ‏@TexansVoice
Kubiak: Brennan Williams had his knee swell up. Getting an MRI

CloakNNNdagger
07-30-2013, 06:56 PM
If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL


Marc Vandermeer ‏@TexansVoice

He was brought back too soon!

His surgery occurred the end of the first week of June. IDEALLY he could be released to practice (non-contact) ~ beginning to mid August.........that's if he were able to maintain a semblance of conditioning to that point. It is obvious to all reporting, that at already at ~7 weeks post op he is nowhere close to appearing in shape. Conditioning for a big man is not an overnight, or one or two week endeavor. Even if he is released to "practice" one to two weeks prior to the beginning of the season, again I ask how much can he make up for essentially no previous experience in an unforgiving synchronous ZBS offensive line? Can you really afford to lose a roster spot just hoping that you might get "some" contribution...............from a rookie, as opposed to a vet who knows how to best handle such a situation. Even for a vet, it would be a challenge.........for a rookie who has little "clue" from the very beginning, this would more likely to be an insurmountable task.

Playoffs
07-30-2013, 07:08 PM
He was brought back too soon!

Texans need a new Chief of Staff ..... I nominate you!

TejasTom
07-30-2013, 10:47 PM
Texans need a new Chief of Staff ..... I nominate you!

I second the motion...if that helps.

Playoffs
07-31-2013, 01:50 PM
-Tackle Brennan Williams had his knee drained following swelling that kept him out of practice yesterday. Williams did some individual work on the bike in the morning but did not participate in team practice.

"His knee swelled up on him," Kubiak said Wednesday mornig. "We drained his knee yesterday. It looks fine. We’re going to calm him down here for a day or two, so I don’t know if that means he comes back after we take our break this weekend or not. He’s up and at ‘em today, but we’ll have to settle it back down and see where we’re at.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Kubiak-Player-Updates-731/a08b0124-9c10-4c1f-8349-5617e5207b35

thunderkyss
07-31-2013, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
If it's truly a "minor" outer ring meniscus tear, 6-8 weeks of aggressive rehab without allowing exposure to re-injury or injury extension should result in return to play thereafter. Of course, if this is the case, he will still have fallen behind in his position development, having missed a good part of OTAs and minicamp.

If it is simply a "minor" collateral ligament sprain, he should be back for minicamp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL


Marc Vandermeer ‏@TexansVoice

He was brought back too soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
His surgery occurred the end of the first week of June. IDEALLY he could be released to practice (non-contact) ~ beginning to mid August.........that's if he were able to maintain a semblance of conditioning to that point. It is obvious to all reporting, that at already at ~7 weeks post op he is nowhere close to appearing in shape. Conditioning for a big man is not an overnight, or one or two week endeavor. Even if he is released to "practice" one to two weeks prior to the beginning of the season, again I ask how much can he make up for essentially no previous experience in an unforgiving synchronous ZBS offensive line? Can you really afford to lose a roster spot just hoping that you might get "some" contribution...............from a rookie, as opposed to a vet who knows how to best handle such a situation. Even for a vet, it would be a challenge.........for a rookie who has little "clue" from the very beginning, this would more likely to be an insurmountable task.




okay,

In the real world, the doctors on the Texans' staff would have shared similar information with the Texans coaches & managers, right?

At some time in the last 12 hours, someone should have been looking at one of those doctors with a big, "WTF!!!" right?

Surely no one at Reliant is thinking, "This is just one of those things.... again."

steelbtexan
08-01-2013, 06:39 PM
okay,

In the real world, the doctors on the Texans' staff would have shared similar information with the Texans coaches & managers, right?

At some time in the last 12 hours, someone should have been looking at one of those doctors with a big, "WTF!!!" right?

Surely no one at Reliant is thinking, "This is just one of those things.... again."

The Texans team Dr.'s seem to have those WTF moments quite regurlarly. Starting with Tony Boselli and further to todays Texans Ed Reed/Brennan Williams.

I'll raise you DDW,

Welcome to the club of doubters.

thunderkyss
08-01-2013, 11:49 PM
The Texans team Dr.'s seem to have those WTF moments quite regurlarly. Starting with Tony Boselli and further to todays Texans Ed Reed/Brennan Williams.

I'll raise you DDW,


I still don't put Ed Reed in that category. I'm sure there wasn't an MRI or XRay to show Reed's condition where the doctors could have pointed & said, "There's a hip issue, I'd go cheap."

He didn't tell Baltimore about it, it was something he decided to live with. After we signed him, then he disclosed it. Probably said, "I got this thing in my hip. It sort of hurts every now & then, but it's no big deal."

Then the doctors looked at it & said, "Yeah, it might not be a big deal, but if it's going to turn into a problem, it's going to be in December & January."

To that, Kubiak & Smith said, "Ah hell no. Tell him he's having surgery now. He doesn't have a choice, we want this taken care of now. We'd rather he might miss game one than game 16. He's having that surgery now. Make sure he understands that."

eriadoc
08-02-2013, 01:07 AM
I still don't put Ed Reed in that category. I'm sure there wasn't an MRI or XRay to show Reed's condition where the doctors could have pointed & said, "There's a hip issue, I'd go cheap."

He didn't tell Baltimore about it, it was something he decided to live with. After we signed him, then he disclosed it. Probably said, "I got this thing in my hip. It sort of hurts every now & then, but it's no big deal."

Then the doctors looked at it & said, "Yeah, it might not be a big deal, but if it's going to turn into a problem, it's going to be in December & January."

To that, Kubiak & Smith said, "Ah hell no. Tell him he's having surgery now. He doesn't have a choice, we want this taken care of now. We'd rather he might miss game one than game 16. He's having that surgery now. Make sure he understands that."

Did you use tarot cards for that or a crystal ball? Or have you been talking with our poster from North Texas?

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 07:50 AM
Did you use tarot cards for that or a crystal ball? Or have you been talking with our poster from North Texas?

It wasn't disclosed on any of Baltimore's injury reports. He said he played through it including the Super Bowl.

I'm pretty sure we didn't MRI every inch of his body before we signed the deal.

& If I remember correctly it was reported that the Texans staff advised him to have the surgery (I'll try to find a link) but I don't think it was a case where he came in one day & said..... "I's got your money, now I'm having this surgery, I'll let you know when I'll be able to play."

eriadoc
08-02-2013, 08:22 AM
It wasn't disclosed on any of Baltimore's injury reports. He said he played through it including the Super Bowl.

Hey, if they don't know about it, keep your mouth shut and get paid, right?

Mostly, I'm just ribbing ya a bit. Sounded like something GP would post. Figured you two were coordinating theories. :D

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2013, 08:43 AM
It wasn't disclosed on any of Baltimore's injury reports. He said he played through it including the Super Bowl.

I'm pretty sure we didn't MRI every inch of his body before we signed the deal.

& If I remember correctly it was reported that the Texans staff advised him to have the surgery (I'll try to find a link) but I don't think it was a case where he came in one day & said..... "I's got your money, now I'm having this surgery, I'll let you know when I'll be able to play."

With his history of major hip reconstruction in the past, and some of his performance decline in the past year, any team would have carefully examined that hip very carefully......and they Texans did, with an MRI (magnetic resonance imaging). They evidently saw nothing. When he revealed his "deficit" in the other hip, the Texans went ahead and performed an MRA (magnetic resonance arthrogram) which would be the only test that would uncover smaller labrum tears....and it did. The MRI would have missed the same type of injury, had it been present in the reconstructed hip, and as such would have been considered an inadequate evaluation of that hip (Keep in mind, you would definitely want to know the condition of this hip, in that a high percentage of similar reconstruction will progress for the need for hip replacement within 5 years [Reed had the reconstruction the beginning of 2010]).

Furthermore, you would have wanted to know the condition of the other hip as well, as significant contralateral hip wear is far from uncommon. Finally, when you perform an MRI, through computerization software, it takes sagittal cuts/views (like a magician cutting a lady in half end on view[bottom illustration in Example #2]) and longitudinal cuts/views (like a sandwich is sliced with you being able to see the bottom surface of the top piece and the top surface of the bottom piece [top view of Example #2] ) of the full girth of the level you are examining. It's not like an x-ray where you can take a locally focused image such as one hand, one shoulder or one hip [example #1 below].

Example #1
http://hipandkneespecialist.com/HA%201b%20Nourbash.jpg


Example #2
http://www.radsource.us/_images/0911_10.jpg

So putting Reed through an MRI for concern over either hip, would have automatically visualized the contralateral hip. In his case, the appropriate completion of a thorough evaluation INITIALLY would have entailed a simple injection of dye into the hip joints during the MRI.......which they eventually did.......but not until after they committed to his contract. Whether anyone would say that the Texans probably would have taken him anyway, no smart team is going to make that decision beforehand without that significant base knowledge of a player's condition.....especially knowing his age, his general wear, his vicious play style, and his extensive injury history.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 09:37 AM
In his case, the appropriate completion of a thorough evaluation INITIALLY would have entailed a simple injection of dye into the hip joints during the MRI.......which they eventually did.......but not until after they committed to his contract. Whether anyone would say that the Texans probably would have taken him anyway, no smart team is going to make that decision beforehand without that significant base knowledge of a player's condition.....especially knowing his age, his general wear, his vicious play style, and his extensive injury history.

Thanks CnD... good stuff. Very thorough. Sounds like another "WTF" "Come to Jesus" meeting was warranted for our team doctors as they did not do their due diligence.

& I caught that you're saying this was not the hip that was reconstructed? I didn't know that.

thunderkyss
08-02-2013, 09:38 AM
Mostly, I'm just ribbing ya a bit. Sounded like something GP would post. Figured you two were coordinating theories. :D

Where's he been?

SW H-TOWN
08-03-2013, 11:16 PM
The Texans team Dr.'s seem to have those WTF moments quite regurlarly. Starting with Tony Boselli and further to todays Texans Ed Reed/Brennan Williams.

I'll raise you DDW,

Welcome to the club of doubters.

I personally would not give up on Williams yet. He had a torn Labrum and missed the final 4 games his senior year but he played 13 games as a Junior and 10 as a Sophomore. He got hurt in minicamp, had his knee scoped, and was brought back too soon. He is a good player who is a very good fit for our scheme and I think he will surprise once they let him get healthy, probably next year. This will be an IR year.

Montgomery and Williams are the guys I'm worried about. Montgomery is looking like potential bust material and Williams has pretty much no pass rush moves, 2 year project.

Pretty sure we will be picking LB in the 1st next year, which of the 2 positions will depend on Reed's performance this year IMO.

thunderkyss
08-04-2013, 07:31 AM
I personally would not give up on Williams yet. He had a torn Labrum and missed the final 4 games his senior year but he played 13 games as a Junior and 10 as a Sophomore. He got hurt in minicamp, had his knee scoped, and was brought back too soon.

That's the point. We're not giving up on Williams, we're giving up on the team doctors.

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2013, 09:15 PM
Williams would do well to focus his efforts in ONE direction............lest he get his chance much sooner than he expects.

Brennan Williams Wants to Become WWE Pro Wrestler After Lengthy, Healthy NFL Career Is Over

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/07/brennan-williams-wants-to-become-wwe-pro-wrestler-after-lengthy-healthy-nfl-career-is-over/ (Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/07/brennan-williams-wants-to-become-wwe-pro-wrestler-after-lengthy-healthy-nfl-career-is-over/)

CloakNNNdagger
08-13-2013, 06:43 AM
Although the Texans have expected Williams to return this week, he continues to have problems with his knee. Next week is likely not be realistic either. The end of TC will be here before you know it.

Playoffs
09-05-2013, 01:49 PM
James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN
Brennan Williams has undergone microfracture surgery. Much more extensive surgery then he had this summer. #Texans

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2013, 02:06 PM
James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN

And this is only one example of why I try to keep things "realistic."

From June:

Team Injuries

HOUSTON (CBS Houston) - The Texans woes at right tackle continue with third-round draft pick Brennan Williams’ return now pushed out to July.

Williams had a prime opportunity move up on the depth chart with starter Derek Newton sidelined after knee surgery. However, Williams is less than 100% after suffering what was considered a minor knee injury during the second day of rookie minicamp on May 11. An MRI cleared him of any major issues but Williams did not participate for the remainder of minicamp. He was expected to return in time for OTAs.link (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/04/texans-brennan-williams-out-until-training-camp/)

thunderkyss
09-05-2013, 02:09 PM
And this is only one example of why I try to keep things "realistic."


I might say things from time to time in jest, but don't mean anything at all about it. I appreciate your fact of the matter responses.

drs23
09-05-2013, 03:09 PM
And this is only one example of why I try to keep things "realistic."

IIRC, isn't this a Chester Pitt'ish type injury? You know, the one that put him out of the league.

Is there a rosier outlook for Williams since he's younger or does age really make a difference?

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2013, 04:37 PM
IIRC, isn't this a Chester Pitt'ish type injury? You know, the one that put him out of the league.

Is there a rosier outlook for Williams since he's younger or does age really make a difference?

Good memory!........Same as Dom Davis.

Microfracture surgery is only performed when joint bone is denuded of its cartilage coverage. The fibrous tissue substitute it creates is neither thick nor durable. It is typically a last ditch effort to preserve the function of the joint. If it done for a very small area, a player may just squeak through. If it is a loss of significant cartilage caused by previous injury/surgery, success rate is dismal.

In Williams case, I have no doubt that he suffered significant cartilage damage at his initially reported "tweaked knee." The arthroscopy then was performed to remove loose and damaged cartilage, exposing some underlying bare knee joint bone. He returned to play too soon thus further breaking off bits of damaged cartilage. During this surgery, further cleanup of cartilage, thus exposing more bone surface would have likely been performed prior to the microfracture drilling. Keep in mind that after joint bone denuding of cartilage and drilling into the bone, arthritis naturally quickly ensues. Not a terribly rosey picture for the future.

drs23
09-05-2013, 08:11 PM
Good memory!........Same as Dom Davis.

Microfracture surgery is only performed when joint bone is denuded of its cartilage coverage. The fibrous tissue substitute it creates is neither thick nor durable. It is typically a last ditch effort to preserve the function of the joint. If it done for a very small area, a player may just squeak through. If it is a loss of significant cartilage caused by previous injury/surgery, success rate is dismal.

In Williams case, I have no doubt that he suffered significant cartilage damage at his initially reported "tweaked knee." The arthroscopy then was performed to remove loose and damaged cartilage, exposing some underlying bare knee joint bone. He returned to play too soon thus further breaking off bits of damaged cartilage. During this surgery, further cleanup of cartilage, thus exposing more bone surface would have likely been performed prior to the microfracture drilling. Keep in mind that after joint bone denuding of cartilage and drilling into the bone, arthritis naturally quickly ensues. Not a terribly rosey picture for the future.

Thanks for the prompt response Dr.

I deleted quite a diatribe so quick-N-simple this isn't an age related thingy?

Williams' career is toast before it ever started and we blew a draft choice we'll never get back. Si?

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2013, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the prompt response Dr.

I deleted quite a diatribe so quick-N-simple this isn't an age related thingy?

Williams' career is toast before it ever started and we blew a draft choice we'll never get back. Si?

Like I said, not a rosey picture at all.

steelbtexan
09-05-2013, 10:26 PM
The Texans screwed up another diagnosis, possibly screwing up another players career?

The Texans medical staff is so incompetent it's embarrassing to all of the great medical professionals in this city. Unbelieveable that CND has a better handle on the Texans injury situations with very little info. Than the Texans Dr's do with all of the best equipment/info available.

It makes me think that Dr. Lowe has whore himself out to the Texans org. Kinda like what Dr.Andrews did last yr with RG3 and the Redskins.

I know if I was a Texans player and had an injury that the Texans Dr.'s diagnosed, the 1st thing that I would do would be seeking a 2nd opinion.

Brisco_County
09-06-2013, 12:25 AM
Good memory!........Same as Dom Davis.

Microfracture surgery is only performed when joint bone is denuded of its cartilage coverage. The fibrous tissue substitute it creates is neither thick nor durable. It is typically a last ditch effort to preserve the function of the joint. If it done for a very small area, a player may just squeak through. If it is a loss of significant cartilage caused by previous injury/surgery, success rate is dismal.

In Williams case, I have no doubt that he suffered significant cartilage damage at his initially reported "tweaked knee." The arthroscopy then was performed to remove loose and damaged cartilage, exposing some underlying bare knee joint bone. He returned to play too soon thus further breaking off bits of damaged cartilage. During this surgery, further cleanup of cartilage, thus exposing more bone surface would have likely been performed prior to the microfracture drilling. Keep in mind that after joint bone denuding of cartilage and drilling into the bone, arthritis naturally quickly ensues. Not a terribly rosey picture for the future.

http://img.pandawhale.com/50246-so-youre-telling-me-theres-a-c-RHL9.jpeg

Corrosion
09-06-2013, 12:26 AM
Draft Grade - Round 3/1 Brennan Williams F

Wolf6151
09-06-2013, 12:57 AM
This just sucks, another wasted draft pick. Our Doctors are paid by the club to get players back on the field, I'm thinking they tell the club what they want to hear instead of the truth.

dalemurphy
09-06-2013, 01:59 AM
The Texans screwed up another diagnosis, possibly screwing up another players career?

The Texans medical staff is so incompetent it's embarrassing to all of the great medical professionals in this city. Unbelieveable that CND has a better handle on the Texans injury situations with very little info. Than the Texans Dr's do with all of the best equipment/info available.

It makes me think that Dr. Lowe has whore himself out to the Texans org. Kinda like what Dr.Andrews did last yr with RG3 and the Redskins.

I know if I was a Texans player and had an injury that the Texans Dr.'s diagnosed, the 1st thing that I would do would be seeking a 2nd opinion.


As many of you know, I am quite the Kubiak/Smith apologist. That being said, I am consistently appalled at the manner in which this organization deals with injuries. The combination of ignorance displayed by Kubiak when questioned about injuries, the errors in judgement I've seen dealing with injured players during games, the lack of information, but especially the mounting evidence (though I don't have proof) that the training staff/doctors simply are not thorough - bordering on malpractice.

I find it more than a coincidence that Kubiak and Smith both worked with Mike Shanahan, who committed a series of unforgivable abuses with RGIII last year... Decisions that defy logic because they not only risked a great, young player but also were not beneficial to the team's short term goals.

HOU-TEX
09-06-2013, 02:43 PM
Good memory!........Same as Dom Davis.

Microfracture surgery is only performed when joint bone is denuded of its cartilage coverage. The fibrous tissue substitute it creates is neither thick nor durable. It is typically a last ditch effort to preserve the function of the joint. If it done for a very small area, a player may just squeak through. If it is a loss of significant cartilage caused by previous injury/surgery, success rate is dismal.

In Williams case, I have no doubt that he suffered significant cartilage damage at his initially reported "tweaked knee." The arthroscopy then was performed to remove loose and damaged cartilage, exposing some underlying bare knee joint bone. He returned to play too soon thus further breaking off bits of damaged cartilage. During this surgery, further cleanup of cartilage, thus exposing more bone surface would have likely been performed prior to the microfracture drilling. Keep in mind that after joint bone denuding of cartilage and drilling into the bone, arthritis naturally quickly ensues. Not a terribly rosey picture for the future.

Wasn't the same knee apparently

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 54m
Oh also, Brennan Williams' microfracture surgery was on a different knee than his arthroscopic knee surgery earlier in the summer. #Texans

CloakNNNdagger
09-06-2013, 05:20 PM
Wasn't the same knee apparently

That's even worse news, in that microfracture surgery is usually preceded by arthroscopic "clean up." Denuded bone doesn't happen over night out of the clear blue. He had to have significant knee cartilage deficit problems before he was drafted. And if he had it in that knee, he most likely had in the arthroscopic knee, which led to the knee problem which led to the "clean up."

Knowing this new information (sort of a peek into the future), I don't expect his arthroscopic knee to be in any better shape than his microfracture knee. Keep in mind that microfracture knee surgery is a very difficult rehab...........9-12 months in most cases. There is no one that I know who would ever do this type of surgery on both knees at the same time (simultaneous bilateral knee surgeries for much lesser conditions are quite uncommon) for obvious reasons. Just like on my carpal tunnel patients, most surgeons (including myself) will refuse to do this surgery on both hands at the same sitting for reason that many patients don't really think about until they are presented with consequential postoperative difficulties.........imagine the difficulties with toilet hygiene. I wouldn't be surprise before it's all said and done, if he goes on to require microfracture surgery on his recently arthroscoped knee some time in the future.

IDEXAN
11-16-2013, 08:58 AM
Wonder if we have anything new on this guy, his rehab, his future in the NFL with the Texans ? Reviewing C&Ds remarks, this 3rd round picks future in football is certainly very grim indeed according to Doc. It's just that we have such a pressing need to put a competent player on the right side of our OLine at tackle.
It's really frustrating that both Williams and our other OLine pick in this years Draft, David Quessenberry, both went out on IR as rookies. What an opportunity this year would have been for either or both rookies to gain valuable playing-time experience.

Naija Texan
11-16-2013, 11:13 AM
And this is only one example of why I try to keep things "realistic."

From June:

Damn, it looks like we WILL need to use one of our higher draft picks on a RT. Had high hopes for the kid but injuries on top of injuries at this point doesn't bode well for him or the Texans outside of maybe a backup Tackle for his first few years.

thunderkyss
03-22-2014, 07:38 AM
Second Opinion (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/20/first-brennan-williams-may-never-be-healthy-enough-to-play/) Brennan Williams starts around 4:33

Playoffs
03-22-2014, 08:18 AM
Second Opinion (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/20/first-brennan-williams-may-never-be-healthy-enough-to-play/) Brennan Williams starts around 4:33

Dr CND has been telling us this for a long time.

thunderkyss
03-22-2014, 08:36 AM
Dr CND has been telling us this for a long time.

That's why I called it a second opinion.

IDEXAN
03-22-2014, 08:45 AM
If BW's "microfracture" situation goes back 2 years and this doctor thinks 300 pounders with that sort of medical problem don't ever recover 100 %, since the Texans drafted BW less than a year ago obviously the Texans' medical people (at the time of the Draft) didn't agree with this doctors opinion.

thunderkyss
03-22-2014, 08:54 AM
If BW's "microfracture" situation goes back 2 years and this doctor thinks 300 pounders with that sort of medical problem don't ever recover 100 %, since the Texans drafted BW less than a year ago obviously the Texans' medical people (at the time of the Draft) didn't agree with this doctors opinion.

The surgery wasn't done two years ago. He's been dealing with the same knee injury since before his senior season, it's never been 100% right. He was healthy enough to play as a senior. Then he tore his shoulder & sat out the final four games of his senior season.

We drafted him & the same knee started giving him problems... he had the microfracture surgery & here we are.


Brennan Williams (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/David-Quessenberry-Brennan-Williams-undergo-surgery/05d8d066-ec9a-460d-9e03-e15f95a33805), a North Carolina third-round pick, suffered a microfracture in his knee. Williams was dealing with a knee injury he suffered on May 11, the second day of rookie minicamp. Williams did return near the end of camp, but suffered swelling again after the game at Dallas. Kubiak mentioned that the latest injury looked “more extensive” than the previous one.

Brisco_County
03-22-2014, 10:46 AM
If you have to identify one decision that contributed the most to getting Kubiak fired, it's this one. As bad as the RT position already was, he shouldn't have rolled the dice on this player. That's not just hindsight -- we all knew it at the time.

Then consider that the next pick was Sam Montgomery.

dream_team
03-22-2014, 11:15 AM
If you have to identify one decision that contributed the most to getting Kubiak fired, it's this one. As bad as the RT position already was, he shouldn't have rolled the dice on this player. That's not just hindsight -- we all knew it at the time.

Then consider that the next pick was Sam Montgomery.


In all fairness, we have no idea Kubes' stance on Williams, or even Montgomery. We also have no idea what kind of bad info the team doctor's gave him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CloakNNNdagger
03-22-2014, 11:31 AM
The surgery wasn't done two years ago. He's been dealing with the same knee injury since before his senior season, it's never been 100% right. He was healthy enough to play as a senior. Then he tore his shoulder & sat out the final four games of his senior season.

We drafted him & the same knee started giving him problems... he had the microfracture surgery & here we are.




Furthermore, the shoulder surgery's effect on his performance was never tested in that his only participation at all last year was in the first 5 days of training camp's non-contact team drills before being totally shut down.

TexansSeminole
03-22-2014, 11:33 AM
So, we wasted both our 3rd rounders last year. Great.

thunderkyss
03-22-2014, 11:41 AM
So, we wasted both our 3rd rounders last year. Great.

We gambled on both & so far, looks like we came up snake eyes.

Still, the book isn't closed on Brennan... just not likely he'll ever be 100%. He might be able to play RT & not have an issue with his knee, or at least be able to manage it. If you ever hear that he's having knee surgery or having his knee drained... you can pretty much close the book on him.

Still, if I were the Texans, I'm bringing the best OT I can find into camp & seeing what happens. We've spent a third & two 6th round picks on the position recently & we're spinning our wheels.

I'd like to aim high, if I miss the mark, I still hit the dang target.

Thorn
03-22-2014, 06:09 PM
Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.

infantrycak
03-22-2014, 06:15 PM
Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.

It's two spots and one of the upgrades is probably already on the roster. It's a huge problem but not a huge fix.

thunderkyss
03-22-2014, 06:31 PM
It's two spots and one of the upgrades is probably already on the roster. It's a huge problem but not a huge fix.

True... though I'd like to have the most dominant OL in the league, it's not necessary & a little unrealistic for 2014. We just need to be a step above pathetic which we were last season.

Three of 5 is not a bad starting spot & we'll see what Q's got soon enough.

ObsiWan
03-22-2014, 09:11 PM
We gambled on both & so far, looks like we came up snake eyes.

Still, if I were the Texans, I'm bringing the best OT I can find into camp & seeing what happens. We've spent a third & two 6th round picks on the position recently & we're spinning our wheels.

I'd like to aim high, if I miss the mark, I still hit the dang target.

Our O-line pretty much sucks right now. Unless this gets fixed, it won't matter who the QB is.

How long are we gonna keep - as we say "poor boying" this fix instead of addressing it properly and putting it behind us? The fix is staring us in the face at 1-1... just re-saying.



For you non-Southern folks, "poor boying" is when you try and patch up something with duct tape, used chewing gum, and baling wire when a good welding job is what you really need.

infantrycak
03-22-2014, 09:37 PM
How long are we gonna keep - as we say "poor boying" this fix instead of addressing it properly and putting it behind us? The fix is staring us in the face at 1-1... just re-saying.

Some of us don't think every option other than a 1st round pick is poor boying.

Wolf6151
03-23-2014, 04:50 AM
Second Opinion (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/20/first-brennan-williams-may-never-be-healthy-enough-to-play/) Brennan Williams starts around 4:33

Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO. :foottap:

ObsiWan
03-23-2014, 07:53 AM
Some of us don't think every option other than a 1st round pick is poor boying.
My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).

Maybe we can reconstruct a solid O-line with the guys on the roster if Wade Smith returns to form and Quessenberry blossoms and Ben Jones steps up and becomes solid at OG; but I'd go ahead and hedge my bets and make the investment on OT by drafting Robinson.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 08:21 AM
My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).

Maybe we can reconstruct a solid O-line with the guys on the roster if Wade Smith returns to form and Quessenberry blossoms and Ben Jones steps up and becomes solid at OG; but I'd go ahead and hedge my bets and make the investment on OT by drafting Robinson.

You just talked about a whole bunch of positions other than RT. There is zero reason to believe RT cannot be so drastically upgraded it becomes a strength on the OL in the 2nd round or dramatically upgraded in the 3rd or for that matter NFL average in the 4th. None, since 1st round picks at RT are a rarity and top half of the 1st round picks at RT are Big Foot - frequently discussed, almost never seen. The only reason I think Robinson is a consideration at all is because the plan wouldn't be to play him at LT for long. As a need pick for RT it's spending too much. That plan falls apart unless you can keep both Robinson and Brown. I'm not going to beotch and moan if they do it, but I think it's a bad idea.

As far as LG goes and Quess, Jones, etc. all this crud about developing players is just draft forum mental masturbation unless you actually stick them in the game after developing them. Year 1 - draft X, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. Year 2 - we can't count on X, he hasn't shown anything, we need to draft Y, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. Year 3 - we can't count on Y, he hasn't shown anything, we need to draft Z, he'll be good after a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program and a year developing. You don't have 6th round Chris Myers as a strength on your team if you never stick him in the game.

thunderkyss
03-23-2014, 08:34 AM
My point is that we got our best results on LT when we spent a first round pick on that position.
...same with LB (Cushing) or DE (Watt and to some extent, Mario).


Some people believe with the new CBA, since the money isn't all out of whack, you can draft pretty much any position of need at #1 overall. Prior to the new agreement, it only made sense to use that pick on a franchise LT, CB, DE, or QB... since franchise players at those positions made the kind of money top 10 players were being paid.

Eric Fisher signed a deal that paid him ~$5M/yr... which is decent money for a starter at RT. It will be even when he is plugged in at LT next season.

What I don't get is why anyone would think the guy we draft will be a RT only in the NFL. They already know he'll never be better than Duane Brown. Duane Brown who was a "reach" to play the position in a "traditional" blocking system.

I'm not saying the system makes the man... but adding strength to a position of strength makes too much sense. If he ends up playing RT because Brown is a better LT... eh.. we don't know how good Robinson is or could be.

But if he's so good that he wins the job over Duane Brown, imagine how good he must be? Imagine how good we'll be if Duane Brown is the second best player on our OL.

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 09:37 AM
Some people believe with the new CBA, since the money isn't all out of whack, you can draft pretty much any position of need at #1 overall. Prior to the new agreement, it only made sense to use that pick on a franchise LT, CB, DE, or QB... since franchise players at those positions made the kind of money top 10 players were being paid.

Eric Fisher signed a deal that paid him ~$5M/yr... which is decent money for a starter at RT. It will be even when he is plugged in at LT next season.

What I don't get is why anyone would think the guy we draft will be a RT only in the NFL. They already know he'll never be better than Duane Brown. Duane Brown who was a "reach" to play the position in a "traditional" blocking system.

I'm not saying the system makes the man... but adding strength to a position of strength makes too much sense. If he ends up playing RT because Brown is a better LT... eh.. we don't know how good Robinson is or could be.

But if he's so good that he wins the job over Duane Brown, imagine how good he must be? Imagine how good we'll be if Duane Brown is the second best player on our OL.
Last year the Chiefs drafted Eric Fischer with their 1.1 knowing they would need him to play LT this year after Brandon Albert left in FA, and the Jags also in 2013 drafted a top LT prospect in Luke Joeckel with their 1.2 knowing they'd need him to play left tackle after Eugene Monroe also left them in FA, though he was actually traded late in 2013.
The Texans have no such problem as Duane Brown is under contract with the team for 4 more years, so Thunderkyss why are so intent on the Texans having not one but two franchise left tackles on their roster ? I mean it's not like we have no holes in our starting lineup, because we've got lots of other issues that need attention ASAP. Some people say we are better than a 2-14 team ? Well I dunno about that, but I know based on last year we are losers and need lots of new blood, but we don't need anotther franchise left tackle because we've already got one.

thunderkyss
03-23-2014, 10:57 AM
The Texans have no such problem as Duane Brown is under contract with the team for 4 more years, so Thunderkyss why are so intent on the Texans having not one but two franchise left tackles on their roster ? I mean it's not like we have no holes in our starting lineup, because we've got lots of other issues that need attention ASAP. Some people say we are better than a 2-14 team ? Well I dunno about that, but I know based on last year we are losers and need lots of new blood, but we don't need anotther franchise left tackle because we've already got one.

The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.

It would be like having Jj Watt & JaDaveon Clowney in the same defensive front 7, only better.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 11:20 AM
The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.

A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position. Fine he is cheap now, and then what? He isn't going to stay happy at RT even for his rookie contract because you are hurting his market value for his 2nd contract (as well as possible bonuses on his rookie contract). He's very unlikely to get any pro bowl or all pro recognition because that almost all goes to LTs.

This isn't like DE, WR or CB where you can have two stars on one team. RTs are largely unrecognized. This situation is also not like any where the clear plan was not to have both on the roster for more than 1-2 years. Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 11:35 AM
Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO. :foottap:

First off, you're adding Casserly to Smith.

But whenever someone makes a statement like this, I always wonder how true it is. When I look at some other teams, I see the same sort of production we got out of ours. Good teams get lucky on those later round draft picks but they also swing and miss a lot, too. Sure, Navorro Bowman, Frank Gore, Jermichael Finley, and guys like that are 3rd rounders but there are a lot of guys drafted in the 3rd round in the past 10 years that aren't playing anymore. The average career is only something like 2-3 years.

But I did notice something interesting.

Remember how great our draft was in 2006? The Broncos KILLED it in 2006. Besides Jay Cutler and Tony Schefler in the 1st and 2nd, they got Brandon Marshall, Domenik Hixon, Elvis Dumerville, and Chris Kuper in the 4th and 5th rounds.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 11:44 AM
Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO. :foottap:

Yet somehow Rick still has a job.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 11:58 AM
Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?
No, only San Francisco.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 11:59 AM
A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position. Fine he is cheap now, and then what? He isn't going to stay happy at RT even for his rookie contract because you are hurting his market value for his 2nd contract (as well as possible bonuses on his rookie contract). He's very unlikely to get any pro bowl or all pro recognition because that almost all goes to LTs.

This isn't like DE, WR or CB where you can have two stars on one team. RTs are largely unrecognized. This situation is also not like any where the clear plan was not to have both on the roster for more than 1-2 years. Is there a team other than the Niners running two 1st round OTs they drafted?

The 2 best players are Robinson/Clowney. IMHO

Hopefully the Texans org has learned from the past and will select the best player 1-1. It looks like Bortles will go 1-1. Hopefully he develops into what BOB thinks he can be.

thunderkyss
03-23-2014, 12:01 PM
A QB is a starter in a premier position. A RT is a starter but not in a premier position.

So now it's ST & RT? Thanks to the new CBA, the only positions you would not select is ST & RT?

Then I guess your crystal ball has shown you Duane Brown playing at an all pro level through the next 5 years. I know he's signed through 2018, but even his 2018 cap number is lower than this years transition tag number for OL.

I understand one of them won't be thrilled that they're not getting the attention of an NFL star... but maybe we can get him a ribbon.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 12:12 PM
The 2 best players are Robinson/Clowney. IMHO

I think Watkins is easily in that mix and TK's argument makes much more sense for him than OT IMO.

So now it's ST & RT? Thanks to the new CBA, the only positions you would not select is ST & RT?

I wouldn't rule out a RT if they were clearly sitting on top all alone by a significant margin. That is not the case this year.

Then I guess your crystal ball has shown you Duane Brown playing at an all pro level through the next 5 years.

I made no predictions thank you.

I understand one of them won't be thrilled that they're not getting the attention of an NFL star... but maybe we can get him a ribbon.

Maybe you can sell your glib wit to them as recompense for being a $6 mil per year player instead of $12 mil per year.

dream_team
03-23-2014, 12:23 PM
Well CND warned us about this. Great another wasted 3rd round pick to go along with the numerous other wasted picks. 3rd round picks should be heavy contributors to your team and since Rick Smith got here in 2006 we've only got Brandon Brooks (starter) and Devier Posey (backup/depth) that's still on the roster. That's 2 players out of 10 3rd round draft picks, that's pretty pathetic IMO. :foottap:

Actually, Smith only drafted 9 3rd round picks. I think you're including 2006, which was picked by Casserly.

Also, you're not including Earl Mitchell, whom was a solid starter for us last season... and he was signed by Miami to be a starter for them. He wasn't re-signed here because he no longer fit the system. There's also Jacoby, whom is a solid 3rd receiver and pro-bowl kick returner.

According to this report by the Huddle Report (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/drafttools/LTI.shtml), which was coincidentally done by Casserly. 3rd round picks are expected to start by their 3rd year and has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter.

So it seems Rick is kind of average and not "pathetic".

Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.

thunderkyss
03-23-2014, 12:46 PM
Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.

CnD did not tell us to not draft Williams, I don't remember if he raised concern about the knee before the draft. It wasn't until after he was in camp that the issue of his knee came up. When it was reported that Williams would undergo Microfracture surgery to repair his knee was when CnD flagged concern.

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 12:52 PM
The only reason I don't want two franchise tackles on this team is because it would cost too much money. But we have an opportunity to have two franchise tackles on our team at a very reasonable cost. Duane Brown's contract, while hefty, is pretty Texans friendly for a franchise LT. If we take a tackle with the #1 overall, he'll probably get a deal similar to what Eric Fisher got.

If there is a benefit to finding a QB to play at a high level, but low cost, surely there is benefit from getting the play of two LTs at the cost of one, $13M/yr.

It would be like having Jj Watt & JaDaveon Clowney in the same defensive front 7, only better.
Clowney and Watt might very well have equivalent value in the front 7, but the LT is always gonna be more valuable and more critical to the team than the RT, so that's an apples to oranges analogy.
But for whatever reason thunderkyss, I think I'm now resigned to the fact that you've got franchise LT on your brain and will leave it at that. For now.

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 01:01 PM
I think Watkins is easily in that mix and TK's argument makes much more sense for him than OT IMO.


Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 01:07 PM
Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.

I don't make that exclusion and I drop Clowney a bit because I'm concerned about his work ethic and motivation.

So, for me, it's Watkins/Robinson/Clowney and then a sharp drop off to Mack/Matthews/Barr and then another drop off to everyone else.

I'd go Watkins but I don't expect the FO to look at it that way. I'm hoping they go Robinson and I'd prefer Clowney over the other guys.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 01:08 PM
No, only San Francisco.

That seems to have worked out pretty well for them. The Texans org could probably learn a thing or 2. The 49ers fixed their OL by drafting these guys and taking a later rd flyer on a troubled but talented Alex Boone. Then they got Kaepernick.

Has Rick learned his lessons?

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 01:09 PM
That seems to have worked out pretty well for them. The Texans org could probably learn a thing or 2. The 49ers fixed their OL by drafting these guys and taking a later rd flyer on a troubled but talented Alex Boone. Then they got Kaepernick.

Has Rick learned his lessons?

This is why I've got no problem with Robinson or with an OT at 2-1. You get the best guys you can get and you solidify that line.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 01:14 PM
Watkins is a tremendous talent, a tremendous prospect but at a non-premium position therefor probably not worthy of inclusion in the Clowney/Robinson conversation.

When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.

That seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

Yeah, I'm sure the Niners success (or lack thereof under your usual definition) is built on a 1st rounder at RT more than oh say, Harbaugh, Navorro, Reid, Whitner, Brooks, Smith, etc.

And by the way, the HC and GM who made those OL picks are no longer part of the team and the success has come under a new administration. They were 6-10 with their 3 1st rounders OL. Way too many dots in that connection.

thunderkyss
03-23-2014, 01:18 PM
I don't make that exclusion and I drop Clowney a bit because I'm concerned about his work ethic and motivation.

So, for me, it's Watkins/Robinson/Clowney and then a sharp drop off to Mack/Matthews/Barr and then another drop off to everyone else.

I'd go Watkins but I don't expect the FO to look at it that way. I'm hoping they go Robinson and I'd prefer Clowney over the other guys.

I just don't see Clowney for us. He's a freak of a player as a 4-3 DE. Totally unknown as a 3-4 OLB, & undersized as a 3-4 DE.

Watkins in the first... I can live with that.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 02:02 PM
I just don't see Clowney for us. He's a freak of a player as a 4-3 DE. Totally unknown as a 3-4 OLB, & undersized as a 3-4 DE.

Watkins in the first... I can live with that.

The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4. If he designs a defense that takes JJ and Clowney and then maximizes their effectiveness, I'm good with it.

But if we take Clowney and then try to stuff him into a standard 3-4, we're going to waste him and our defense is going to suffer.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 02:12 PM
The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4.
Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 02:14 PM
When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.



Yeah, I'm sure the Niners success (or lack thereof under your usual definition) is built on a 1st rounder at RT more than oh say, Harbaugh, Navorro, Reid, Whitner, Brooks, Smith, etc.

And by the way, the HC and GM who made those OL picks are no longer part of the team and the success has come under a new administration. They were 6-10 with their 3 1st rounders OL. Way too many dots in that connection.

Facts are that the 49ers built their OL 1st by using high picks. Before they added any of the guys you mention. Then they added 3 difference makers a yr in the draft and used trades Boldin and FA to supplement their roster.

Hopefully the Texans philosophy will become more like the 49ers under Rick/BOB. If not things will remain much the same.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 03:32 PM
Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?

That's what RAC needs to figure out. If they take Clowney, RAC needs to figure out how to incorporate him and JJ into a defense that maximizes both of their abilities and doesn't have some inherent and easy-to-exploit weakness.

In general, you want OLBs that can cover... at least a little. If you take Clowney out of the coverage scheme, then you're basically left with a guy that you know is going to be rushing and you're probably going to be vulnerable to flares, screens, and draws.

LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 03:36 PM
That's what RAC needs to figure out. If they take Clowney, RAC needs to figure out how to incorporate him and JJ into a defense that maximizes both of their abilities and doesn't have some inherent and easy-to-exploit weakness.

In general, you want OLBs that can cover... at least a little. If you take Clowney out of the coverage scheme, then you're basically left with a guy that you know is going to be rushing and you're probably going to be vulnerable to flares, screens, and draws.

LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.

Do you think Clowney can be a better version of Aldon Smith? If so you pick Clowney.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 03:40 PM
Do you think Clowney can be a better version of Aldon Smith? If so you pick Clowney.

The question is "can" or "will". I think he can be but I think he won't be. So I wouldn't take him. I know we don't agree on that.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 03:44 PM
LT and that defense was successful in the 80's. Offenses have evolved quite a bit since then and that exact defense might not work at all today.
OK, but Crennel used Tamba Hali as a passing rushing OLB just a few years ago. Offenses haven't evolved that much since then.

beerlover
03-23-2014, 03:46 PM
I was hoping there was something positive posted in regards to Brennan Williams progress/rehab that would shape our draft strategy :polevault:

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 03:48 PM
When did WR become a non-premium position? Just like for the past 15 years WR is in the top 3 for highest paid positions this year.

So what do we get when we mix blue and red ? Purple ?
OK, so of the non-QB positions I would assign only pure blue-chip rankings to OLT and pass-rusher, but I'll give WR and CBs a purple-chip ranking with a decidedly bluish tinge. But I'm thinkin Green in Cinci is like the only real high WR taken in the Draft in recent years, while there's been tons of OTs and a quite a few pass-rushers taken very high.

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 03:56 PM
The only way I see Clowney working for us is if RAC is willing to re-design his defense and not go with the standard 3-4. If he designs a defense that takes JJ and Clowney and then maximizes their effectiveness, I'm good with it.

But if we take Clowney and then try to stuff him into a standard 3-4, we're going to waste him and our defense is going to suffer.
Surely you don't think Crennel makes a 2-gap downlineman out of Watt, so he's already gonna have to make some big modifications to his defense to maximize JJs abilities/skills unless you see JJ as potentially a standup LB ? JJ is a much more challenging player to utilize in his current defense than Clowney is because Clowney is more athletic and versatile than Watt.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 04:16 PM
So what do we get when we mix blue and red ? Purple ?
OK, so of the non-QB positions I would assign only pure blue-chip rankings to OLT and pass-rusher, but I'll give WR and CBs a purple-chip ranking with a decidedly bluish tinge. But I'm thinkin Green in Cinci is like the only real high WR taken in the Draft in recent years, while there's been tons of OTs and a quite a few pass-rushers taken very high.

2002-2013 top 3 draft picks

QB - 13
OT - 6
WR - 5
DE - 5

If you are feeling like parsing colors it is clearly QB alone as blue and OT/WR/DE as purple.

Wolf6151
03-23-2014, 04:22 PM
Actually, Smith only drafted 9 3rd round picks. I think you're including 2006, which was picked by Casserly.

Also, you're not including Earl Mitchell, whom was a solid starter for us last season... and he was signed by Miami to be a starter for them. He wasn't re-signed here because he no longer fit the system. There's also Jacoby, whom is a solid 3rd receiver and pro-bowl kick returner.

According to this report by the Huddle Report (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/drafttools/LTI.shtml), which was coincidentally done by Casserly. 3rd round picks are expected to start by their 3rd year and has a 30% chance of ever becoming a starter.

So it seems Rick is kind of average and not "pathetic".

Also, why does Rick get all the flack for drafting of Williams? I blame the team doctors more. If they were as smart as CND, then they would have told Rick to stay away because he'll never play a down for us.


Your right I was including 2006, my mistake. Ok it's 2 out of 9 3rd round picks on the roster and only 1 is a starter.

I didn't include Earl Mitchell or Jacoby Jones because they are no longer Texans.

Oh trust me I blame the team doctors plenty, but are they just rubber stamping what the Texans want to hear or are they telling the Texans the truth. I've also been around alot of Dr.'s and just because you graduated med school doesn't mean your smart. No offense intended CND.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 04:38 PM
Your right I was including 2006, my mistake. Ok it's 2 out of 9 3rd round picks on the roster and only 1 is a starter.

I didn't include Earl Mitchell or Jacoby Jones because they are no longer Texans.

Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:

Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.
New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.
San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.

Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.

Not seeing the disparity so far.

IDEXAN
03-23-2014, 04:39 PM
2002-2013 top 3 draft picks

QB - 13
OT - 6
WR - 5
DE - 5

If you are feeling like parsing colors it is clearly QB alone as blue and OT/WR/DE as purple.
As I said, "non-QB positions" that are blue chip. Also, I said "pass-rushers" which would include not just DEs, but also LBs who were edge rushers in college or projected to be 3-4 OLB/edge-rushers in the NFL and also some DTs who were drafted in large part for their ability to rush the QB. A good example would be Ndamukong Suh who had double digit sacks at Nebraska and then in the NFL. And you went back like 11 or 12 years which is a long time in the rapidly changing NFL, but looking back just 5 or 6 years, besides Green the only real high WR selection was Blackmon, the former OSU WR who Jacksonsville took a couple years ago.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 04:44 PM
As I said, "non-QB positions" that are blue chip. Also, I said "pass-rushers" which would include not just DEs, but also LBs who were edge rushers in college or projected to be 3-4 OLB/edge-rushers in the NFL and also some DTs who were drafted in large part for their ability to rush the QB. A good example would be Ndamukong Suh who had double digit sacks at Nebraska and then in the NFL. And you went back like 11 or 12 years which is a long time in the rapidly changing NFL, but looking back just 5 or 6 years, besides Green the only real high WR selection was Blackmon, the former OSU WR who Jacksonsville took a couple years ago.

Now you are clearly obfuscating. You don't get to lump the entire front seven together and call it a blue chip position. That's beyond ridiculous. You're wrong both on how teams draft WRs and how they pay them. Translation - they are only non-blue chippers in your world.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 05:17 PM
Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:

Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.
New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.
San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.

Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.

Not seeing the disparity so far.

Show me who the starters are. Just because you were a top draft pick on a 2-14 team doesn't mean you are a great/good football player.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 05:38 PM
Show me who the starters are. Just because you were a top draft pick on a 2-14 team doesn't mean you are a great/good football player.

If you don't know the starters you have no basis for the assertion.

I'm not going to play "let's keep moving the bar."

ObsiWan
03-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Not to turn this into a Clowney thread, but I really don't understand this comment. Crennel is from the Parcells/Belichick school that deployed Lawrence Taylor. Crennel coached on those Giant teams that had LT menacing QBs from the OLB position. What exactly would he need to change to allow Clowney to flourish in that role?
Ummm... maybe get the equivalent of Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt (later Carl Banks) to help out Cushing at LB so Clowney can show us how much he's like LT. Then get Leonard Marshall-type to help J.J. Watt at DE. Oh and maybe a Jim Burt type at NT too.
:kitten:
And even with this cast of characters on D and with Belchick, Crennel, and Parcells as coaches they still finished 3-12-1 in 1983. I;m gonna file that season under "stuff happens" since three years later they won the Super Bowl.

dream_team
03-23-2014, 08:55 PM
Seems like as suggested above some comparison is needed and I am going to do this as of the end of last season:



Baltimore: 1 starter, 5 non-starters, 2 other teams, 2 out of league.

New England: 0 starters, 5 non-starters, 1 other team, 4 out of league.

San Francisco: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 0 other teams, 3 out of league.



Texans: 2 starters, 2 non-starters, 2 other teams, 3 out of league.



Not seeing the disparity so far.


My point exactly. Fans expectations of draft picks panning out is a bit high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 09:00 PM
If you don't know the starters you have no basis for the assertion.

I'm not going to play "let's keep moving the bar."

Not moving the bar just curious to see a comparisoms. I've got a feeling that I know the answer but am too lazy to do the research. Point is not all starters are created equal.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 09:05 PM
Ummm... maybe get the equivalent of Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt (later Carl Banks) to help out Cushing at LB so Clowney can show us how much he's like LT. Then get Leonard Marshall-type to help J.J. Watt at DE. Oh and maybe a Jim Burt type at NT too.
:kitten:
And even with this cast of characters on D and with Belchick, Crennel, and Parcells as coaches they still finished 3-12-1 in 1983. I;m gonna file that season under "stuff happens" since three years later they won the Super Bowl.

I thought they finished 3-12-1 and got the 2nd pick in that draft. (Selecting Taylor) George Rodgers was selected 1st for New Orleans by Bum.

If Taylor were available today do you think McNair would let BOB/Rick pick Taylor? I think not and there in lies the problem with the Texans on the field product.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 09:27 PM
I thought they finished 3-12-1 and got the 2nd pick in that draft. (Selecting Taylor) George Rodgers was selected 1st for New Orleans by Bum.

If Taylor were available today do you think McNair would let BOB/Rick pick Taylor? I think not and there in lies the problem with the Texans on the field product.

I wasn't aware of any LT issues until after he came into the league. McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues. Why not just get past this? I don't really see how this has hurt this team, overall.

infantrycak
03-23-2014, 09:33 PM
McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues.

Even this is questionable as any kind of absolute prohibition of anyone who isn't squeaky clean. Travis Johnson and Jerome Mathis both had college misconduct issues. Okoye was rumored to have tested positive for pot and of course the Cushing PED rumors.

steelbtexan
03-23-2014, 09:43 PM
I wasn't aware of any LT issues until after he came into the league. McNair isn't going to draft/sign guys with known character issues. Why not just get past this? I don't really see how this has hurt this team, overall.

It limits the pool and I've got it on good authority that McNair also wouldn't let Rick/Gary have the player they wanted to pick because of character concerns.

Why can I not get past this? Because I don't believe McNair's model is a winning model.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 10:15 PM
OK, but Crennel used Tamba Hali as a passing rushing OLB just a few years ago. Offenses haven't evolved that much since then.

But that defense wasn't very good. With Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

RAC has to figure out something different than what he did in KC.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2014, 10:21 PM
Surely you don't think Crennel makes a 2-gap downlineman out of Watt, so he's already gonna have to make some big modifications to his defense to maximize JJs abilities/skills unless you see JJ as potentially a standup LB ? JJ is a much more challenging player to utilize in his current defense than Clowney is because Clowney is more athletic and versatile than Watt.

Think about that.

He's already got one guy that he's going to have to make some changes to accommodate IF he goes with the defense that he's most comfortable with. Should we add another guy that doesn't fit his base scheme on top of it? Or is RAC going to go with a totally different scheme to incorporate both guys?

There are two basic types of coaches: those who build schemes based on their personnel and those who find personnel to fit what they like.

When Wade came in, there was a hullaballoo about switching from 4-3 to 3-4. But with Wade's 3-4, the 4-3 personnel we had were a pretty good fit. Now we're going from a 3-4 to a 3-4 but because of the change of concept, we don't have the right personnel.

So what is RAC going to do? He's let our penetrating NT's go and he looks to be replacing them with space-eater NTs. That looks like he's transitioning to his standard base instead of building a defense around our current personnel.

But we'll just have to wait and see.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 10:45 PM
But that defense wasn't very good. With Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

RAC has to figure out something different than what he did in KC.
Huh? Crennel came in to KC in 2010, and the defense went from 30th to 14th. The next year, 2011, the Chiefs defense ranked 11th. In 2012, the defense went back down to 20th. But, the entire team fell apart that year (sound familiar) on its way to a 2-14 record.

I don't get the attempt at boxing in Crennel's defensive approach. As least in regards to having a pass rusher. When Crennel has possessed a premier pass rusher, he's tried to utilize him.

Lucky
03-23-2014, 10:52 PM
Why can I not get past this? Because I don't believe McNair's model is a winning model.
I don't think you have any proof that bringing in guys with character issues is a winning model. I know it didn't do the Bengals any good when they led the league in player suspensions.

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2014, 12:00 AM
Huh? Crennel came in to KC in 2010, and the defense went from 30th to 14th. The next year, 2011, the Chiefs defense ranked 11th. In 2012, the defense went back down to 20th. But, the entire team fell apart that year (sound familiar) on its way to a 2-14 record.

I don't get the attempt at boxing in Crennel's defensive approach. As least in regards to having a pass rusher. When Crennel has possessed a premier pass rusher, he's tried to utilize him.

I don't consider 14th, 11th, and 20th to be very good. It's just OK.

How many sacks did those defenses get? They did... OK. Hali did pretty good (with 14.5, then 12, then 9 sacks). They were ranked 10th in sacks in 2010 but they were tied for 27th in sacks with only 29 all season in 2011.

So its not like he's unleashed some sort of monster defense in KC.

I'm hoping for the best but it's not like he's created stifling defenses everywhere he's gone.

Lucky
03-24-2014, 06:43 AM
I'm hoping for the best but it's not like he's created stifling defenses everywhere he's gone.
Well, he certainly took the existing personnel and made the defense better. But, the assertion was that Crennel couldn't implement Clowney into his defense. I don't see any evidence that would support that.

IDEXAN
03-24-2014, 07:27 AM
Think about that.

He's already got one guy that he's going to have to make some changes to accommodate IF he goes with the defense that he's most comfortable with. Should we add another guy that doesn't fit his base scheme on top of it? Or is RAC going to go with a totally different scheme to incorporate both guys?

There are two basic types of coaches: those who build schemes based on their personnel and those who find personnel to fit what they like.

When Wade came in, there was a hullaballoo about switching from 4-3 to 3-4. But with Wade's 3-4, the 4-3 personnel we had were a pretty good fit. Now we're going from a 3-4 to a 3-4 but because of the change of concept, we don't have the right personnel.

So what is RAC going to do? He's let our penetrating NT's go and he looks to be replacing them with space-eater NTs. That looks like he's transitioning to his standard base instead of building a defense around our current personnel.

But we'll just have to wait and see.
As we discussed earlier in this thread, maybe just one position after QB has the equivalent value of a pass-rusher, and even better with JJ we've got "Mr Inside" while Clowney as an elite edge-rusher would give us "Mr Outside" and I would think any DC would pray for the opportunity to coach and manage that duo in his defense. But these DCs can mix-and-match, which is to say Crennel may have a 330 lb 2-gap guy over the center, and then another DLineman adjacent to the 2-gap NT like perhaps Watt "in the gap" (a 1-gapper), i.e., it's not all black and white.
But ultimately I see Clowney being used very much as Wade used Demarcus Ware in his 3-4 in Dallas,
and an even less athletic Mario succeeded in that scheme early on before his season-ending injury.

ObsiWan
03-24-2014, 10:10 AM
Are we done talking Brennan Williams?
:kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2014, 10:47 AM
Are we done talking Brennan Williams?
:kitten:

I was just going to ask the same question.........the last 3 pages re. Crennel, Clowney and D??????????

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 10:51 AM
I don't think you have any proof that bringing in guys with character issues is a winning model. I know it didn't do the Bengals any good when they led the league in player suspensions.

Nope, but the Pats did pretty good?

Who had the most suspensions in the NFL last yr?

Let SF tell you how valuable Alex Boone/Aldon Smith are.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 10:56 AM
I was just going to ask the same question.........the last 3 pages re. Crennel, Clowney and D??????????

What are the odds Williams ever becomes a serviceable starting OT? How long will it take him to get back to 80% of what he could've become, if ever?

ObsiWan
03-24-2014, 11:12 AM
What are the odds Williams ever becomes a serviceable starting OT? How long will it take him to get back to 80% of what he could've become, if ever?
Why burn a roster spot on someone we know has a lasting injury issue when there are others around without that concern at the same or better level of performance? Is it because he's already on the roster and you want to know if he can be salvaged?

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2014, 11:14 AM
Well, he certainly took the existing personnel and made the defense better. But, the assertion was that Crennel couldn't implement Clowney into his defense. I don't see any evidence that would support that.

Did I say "couldn't"? I didn't mean to say "couldn't". Of course, he can. I just don't know that he will. I don't feel he did a great job of it in KC or in Cleveland.

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2014, 11:15 AM
Are we done talking Brennan Williams?
:kitten:

Threads meander. That's why they're threads.

ObsiWan
03-24-2014, 11:32 AM
Threads meander. That's why they're threads.
My query was a mild attempt to get back on the original track which was will Brennan Williams ever be healthy enough to contribute and maybe eliminate the need to spend a 2014 pick on his position?

Meandering would be going from Williams talk to what F/A might take his spot or who we might draft to replace him and in what round.

We have "meandered" all the way over to the other side of the line of scrimmage, as Doc, pointed out for the past three pages. Hell, even I got caught up in it.

Man, the off-season even makes me grumpy.

Lucky
03-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Nope, but the Pats did pretty good?

Who had the most suspensions in the NFL last yr?

Let SF tell you how valuable Alex Boone/Aldon Smith are.
You don't think SF would like to redo the Aldon Smith pick and take JJ Watt? The Pats with Hernandez? Really? That's what you're going with? You've made my case for me.

The Texans don't need "bad boys". They need good players. Players that can produce on the field and not get suspended. This isn't rocket science. The Texans need to draft better, not "badder".

Lucky
03-24-2014, 02:00 PM
We have "meandered" all the way over to the other side of the line of scrimmage, as Doc, pointed out for the past three pages. Hell, even I got caught up in it.
I'm done with the off topic stuff. Brennan Williams? Who knows? I would bet that O'Brien has less patience with guys who can't find their way onto the field. And I would be stunned if the Texans counted on him for a contribution and ignored RT in the draft.

Playoffs
03-24-2014, 02:07 PM
Microfracture surgery is only performed when joint bone is denuded of its cartilage coverage. The fibrous tissue substitute it creates is neither thick nor durable. It is typically a last ditch effort to preserve the function of the joint. If it done for a very small area, a player may just squeak through. If it is a loss of significant cartilage caused by previous injury/surgery, success rate is dismal.

In Williams case, I have no doubt that he suffered significant cartilage damage at his initially reported "tweaked knee." The arthroscopy then was performed to remove loose and damaged cartilage, exposing some underlying bare knee joint bone. He returned to play too soon thus further breaking off bits of damaged cartilage. During this surgery, further cleanup of cartilage, thus exposing more bone surface would have likely been performed prior to the microfracture drilling. Keep in mind that after joint bone denuding of cartilage and drilling into the bone, arthritis naturally quickly ensues. Not a terribly rosey picture for the future.

So a bit off topic but considering the pro football prognosis of microfracture surgery,

How far off are we from seeing NFL players with replacement joints???

thunderkyss
03-24-2014, 02:08 PM
And I would be stunned if the Texans counted on him for a contribution and ignored RT in the draft.

From what I understood Doc to say... & the second opinion that resurrected this thread, he may very well look good in whatever workouts they have before the draft.

Maybe even make it through OTAs & into training camp before it even becomes an issue.

If we ever hear that he has to have his knee drained at any time though.... it's over.

Wolf6151
03-24-2014, 02:09 PM
I'm done with the off topic stuff. Brennan Williams? Who knows? I would bet that O'Brien has less patience with guys who can't find their way onto the field. And I would be stunned if the Texans counted on him for a contribution and ignored RT in the draft.

I sure hope your right, but I get that impression as well. Guys sucking up paychecks from the trainers table year after year should be a thing of the past. I'd also be stunned if OT was a position we didn't address in the 2nd or 3rd round.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 04:18 PM
You don't think SF would like to redo the Aldon Smith pick and take JJ Watt? The Pats with Hernandez? Really? That's what you're going with? You've made my case for me.

The Texans don't need "bad boys". They need good players. Players that can produce on the field and not get suspended. This isn't rocket science. The Texans need to draft better, not "badder".

Which team got the most suspensions in the NFL last yr?

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 04:20 PM
I sure hope your right, but I get that impression as well. Guys sucking up paychecks from the trainers table year after year should be a thing of the past. I'd also be stunned if OT was a position we didn't address in the 2nd or 3rd round.

We can only hope.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2014, 05:08 PM
So a bit off topic but considering the pro football prognosis of microfracture surgery,

How far off are we from seeing NFL players with replacement joints???

Very far off with what's available today. Unlike hips, total knees do not easily dislocate (come out of joint). So there is less concern about that happening in the middle of a strenuous activity. However, it is known that total knees do NOT last forever. They are little machines that will take care of you longer , if you take care of them!

How do total knees gradually fail? Well, they are actually cemented into the bone. And just like cracks form in the sidewalk over years after extremes of weather, cracks can occur in cement inside your knee. This is more likely if you "beat your knee up" on a regular basis. This is why it is not recommended that one chooses running for daily exercise after a knee replacement. The constant repetitive "jarring" could lead to cement cracks and eventual loosening of the implant. Most suggested is letting patients to play tennis (doubles is safer), ski, play golf, bike ride, swim, and do similar sports. Bike riding, Yoga and swimming are the best exercises. The stresses of impact, grinding and torquing is a sure formula for early failure. Thus, as things stand (and for any forseeable future), knee replacement must coincide with retirement from the NFL

bah007
03-24-2014, 05:13 PM
Which team got the most suspensions in the NFL last yr?

Sigh.... This has been debunked already...

Number19
03-24-2014, 06:23 PM
...Meandering would be going from Williams talk to what F/A might take his spot or who we might draft to replace him and in what round...When discussing "needs", I think RT is high on most lists and most agree we need to draft a RT or acquire one in free agency. My mock has us taking Ja'Wuan James in the 4th. Williams will compete for the position in camp. If healthy, or at least able to play through any pain he may have, he may win the starting spot. Or not.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2014, 07:16 PM
There is no good NFL study that correlates players having microfracture surgery specifically with post surgical performance. But there is one such study of professional basketball players. In a 2009 American Journal of Sports Medicine study, 24 National Basketball Association (NBA) players who had microfracture knee surgery between 1997 and 2006 were evaluated. Data for their first full season before and after the surgery were used in the evaluation. The study found that 8 (33%) of the athletes never returned to play in the NBA. Fourteen players (58.3%) returned to the NBA for longer than one season. Thirteen players (76%) missed at least 1 game during their first full season back from surgery due to injuries to their operative knee. Comparisons within the groups suggested that points scored and minutes played were statistically significantly decreased. Performance variables (points, rebounds, assists, blocks, assists, and field goal percentage) declined between before and after the surgery. When the experimental group was compared to the controls, those players with microfracture knee surgery had a larger average decline in performance. Regression analysis showed that the experimental cases were 8.15 times less likely to remain in the NBA than the controls. The conclusions of the study were that players with a history of microfracture knee surgery are at risk of never returning to the NBA. These results may reflect the players abilities (8 previous all stars), position, age (mean age was 28.6 years old), and the severity of chondral lesions more than they do the success of microfracture. Also the study lacks information about the actual procedures. Lesion size and location do affect the outcome of the procedure. The study also found that the players that do return experience a decrease in minutes played directly due to the surgery. The players averaged less points, assists, and rebounds per game. They averaged 3.9 less points per game and 4.0% lower in field goal percentage. NBA players who have undergone microfracture knee surgery, when compared with a control group, have a greater decline in performance than the typical non-injured players.

Looking at typical patients in general, most clinical studies of the outcomes after microfracture in the knee show some improvement in knee function in 70% to 80% of patients. The long-term results vary. Almost all studies report significant improvement in the first year after surgery; many report a decline in activity levels after 1 year, but especially in elite athletes. Isolated studies have shown an occasional continuation of good results for several years.

Recent studies have shown that a body mass index greater than 30 kg/m(2). Williams at 6'6" and 317 pounds has a BMI of 36.6, results in markedly poorer prognosis. Besides, keep in mind that the constant grinding (against immense resistance) trauma at the knee joint of a football lineman cannot be equaled by any position of a basketball player by direct jumping impact or other sport-specific maneuvers.

In the end, it is quite probable that the poor prognosis of microfracture surgery in an NFL player is more of an indication of the injury rather than the surgery.

HOU-TEX
03-25-2014, 09:36 AM
I know it really doesn't pertain to his on the field performance (or maybe it does), but I just couldn't handle this cat on Twitter anymore. The dude lives WWE and what ever the Chinese animation is that's like Pokémon or something. Good grief

Hervoyel
03-25-2014, 12:30 PM
I know it really doesn't pertain to his on the field performance (or maybe it does), but I just couldn't handle this cat on Twitter anymore. The dude lives WWE and what ever the Chinese animation is that's like Pokémon or something. Good grief

Man-child. It gets old.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2014, 12:51 PM
I know it really doesn't pertain to his on the field performance (or maybe it does), but I just couldn't handle this cat on Twitter anymore. The dude lives WWE and what ever the Chinese animation is that's like Pokémon or something. Good grief

Man-child. It gets old.


Role and Gender confusion?????

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdL9CSDCEAE4ucs.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdw4_C5IIAER842.jpg:large

Playoffs
03-25-2014, 01:37 PM
I know it really doesn't pertain to his on the field performance (or maybe it does), but I just couldn't handle this cat on Twitter anymore. The dude lives WWE and what ever the Chinese animation is that's like Pokémon or something. Good grief

I recall his post football wish being WWE/F whatever wrestler and not liking that.

ObsiWan
03-26-2014, 04:23 PM
Role and Gender confusion?????

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdL9CSDCEAE4ucs.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdw4_C5IIAER842.jpg:large

well aaaaall-righty then...
yeah, that deserves one last
:wadepalm:

Playoffs
07-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
#Texans have waived OT Brennan Williams with Failed physical designation per @FieldYates


Dr CND called this long ago due to the nature of microfracture surgery.

Hervoyel
07-21-2014, 06:47 PM
Just realized I never voted on this poll so with my 20/20 hindsight I jumped on the "F" bandwagon!

Knew it all along boys! Knew it all along! :)

badboy
07-21-2014, 06:53 PM
Just realized I never voted on this poll so with my 20/20 hindsight I jumped on the "F" bandwagon!

Knew it all along boys! Knew it all along! :)bet your "sources" helped?

Thorn
07-21-2014, 07:09 PM
For some reason I didn't follow the crowd on this guy and only gave this pick a "C". I can't remember back that for as to why I gave him that grade though. Although if there were articles about him being injury prone back then that would have done it for me.

EVOLVIST
07-21-2014, 07:42 PM
Ha! This is funny. I voted "F" back on 04-26-2013 when this guy was drafted.

Of course I also voted for Mt. Vesuvius to erupt and for the Titanic to sink. I'm getting good at this.

Next I vote to send a few nukes and blow up Pluto because it's no longer a planet.

Our 2013 draft__________________________(fill in the blank).

texanhead08
07-21-2014, 09:03 PM
Why does every 2nd and 3rd round pick in this franchise history end up being a epic disaster.

Vinny
07-21-2014, 09:25 PM
Why does every 2nd and 3rd round pick in this franchise history end up being a epic disaster.

I donno about why, but we had the first pick in the draft for the 3rd time in about a decade. This is what happens when you build your team through the draft and then outsmart yourself and pick guys nobody else grades that high because your system is has the smartest guy in the room syndrome. Weak GM influence, Coaches making picks, no top-down leadership. It's yakety-sax (http://youtu.be/ZnHmskwqCCQ).

WolverineFan
07-21-2014, 09:28 PM
Was a fan of his and had big hopes for him, but the injury always put things in serious doubt. Very unfortunate.

steelbtexan
07-21-2014, 10:11 PM
Why does every 2nd and 3rd round pick in this franchise history end up being a epic disaster.

Rick Smith & Charley Casserly

Next question

xtruroyaltyx
07-22-2014, 10:08 AM
Role and Gender confusion?????

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdL9CSDCEAE4ucs.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdw4_C5IIAER842.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs1Ui5KCEAAhsTA.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsZGA4vCQAAxf_A.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkLumLtCUAAjDQu.jpg:large

Hervoyel
07-22-2014, 11:32 AM
bet your "sources" helped?

Absolutely. I cannot of course divulge those sources but suffice to say they are terribly accurate.

beerlover
07-22-2014, 07:36 PM
Definition of a bust, drafted because of need & potential!

Best wishes moving forward with his football career.

Brisco_County
07-22-2014, 11:26 PM
This would be easier to swallow if our second chance at a third round pick wasn't Sam Montgomery.