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Lucky
05-02-2013, 09:41 PM
I see it the same way. Just throwing it out there. There are a few reasons Hopkins may not perform the way we hope, there always is.
Losing his fingers in a bizarre sewing accident.
Being named ambassador to Liechenstein.
Getting the lead in the Broadway musical "The Book of Mormon".

Just throwing out a few reasons Hopkins may not perform the way we hope.

TejasTom
05-03-2013, 12:18 AM
Losing his fingers in a bizarre sewing accident.
Being named ambassador to Liechenstein.
Getting the lead in the Broadway musical "The Book of Mormon".

Just throwing out a few reasons Hopkins may not perform the way we hope.

Well, he's too old to make jerseys.
Is that in the blue lot? (it would almost fit)
I think Tebow gets the gig.

Rey
05-03-2013, 08:48 AM
Hopkins is going to start. There isn't going to be any heavy subbing for him because he needs to get all the reps he can get.



Deandre Hopkins is Batman and Andre is Superman. Andre is the Joker and Deandre is the Riddler. Andre is Ozarka and Deandre is Aquifina. Andre is Lilo and Deandre is stitch. Andre is peter Pan and Deandre is Tinkerbell. It's the 'Dre and 'Dre show.

Allstar
05-03-2013, 09:08 AM
Riddler over Joker? Please.

76Texan
05-03-2013, 11:56 AM
Hopkins is going to start. There isn't going to be any heavy subbing for him because he needs to get all the reps he can get.



Deandre Hopkins is Batman and Andre is Superman. Andre is the Joker and Deandre is the Riddler. Andre is Ozarka and Deandre is Aquifina. Andre is Lilo and Deandre is stitch. Andre is peter Pan and Deandre is Tinkerbell. It's the 'Dre and 'Dre show.

Rey, you may want to temper your enthusiasm a little.

Let's take a look at his 13-catch game against LSU.
SEC defense, you think they would be good, right?
Well, the strength of that D is the front line; when that front line couldn't get to the QB, their back end can not hold up; and that was what happened in that game.

Out of his 13 catches, 2 were bubble screens when there was nobody on him.
2 were into the zone, and 9 were covered one-on-one.
There were 7 or 8 incompletions where Hopkins didn't get enough separation.

The 3 guys that were on him were two freshmen (#32 and #28) and Tharold Simon #24.

Simon is a tall corner who is not very agile; that was why he was drafted in the 5th round.
One freshman was the 22nd ranked CB in his class (ie., he's likely not to get drafted in 2015 when he comes out.)
The other was ranked 34th in his class (ie., he's not going to be drafted in 2015 unless he improves significantly.)

Among those catches, there was one he caught with one foot in bound.

How many do you think he would have gotten against NFL-caliber CB?

infantrycak
05-03-2013, 12:01 PM
There were 7 or 8 incompletions where Hopkins didn't get enough separation.

How are you judging this? - are you saying there was a PD awarded on the plays? Clearly the QB thought there was adequate separation or he could put the ball into a catchable spot without significant separation..

76Texan
05-03-2013, 12:20 PM
How are you judging this? - are you saying there was a PD awarded on the plays? Clearly the QB thought there was adequate separation or he could put the ball into a catchable spot without significant separation..

There was a dropped ball by Hopkins.
There's a route where Hopkins couldn't beat press and was forced out of bound.
On the other routes, the defenders were right there with him, either forcing the QB to throw the ball out of bound, or he can't put the ball in empty space (there was no room, or the CB was ahead of Hopkins to cut him off his route, and the pass was just high, things like that.
There were at least 2 PDs.

76Texan
05-03-2013, 01:03 PM
Hopkins had another 13-catch game, against Auburn, last year SEC weakling.

Their two starting CBs were ranked in the 70-90 something in their draft class (ie., they won't be even playing in the arena league when they complete their college career.)

Then there was an 11-catch game against BC, a bottom feeder in a weak conference. They lost their starting CB before the season started (he was a Sophomore); the guy that replaced him was another sophomore who got injured in the second game of the season.
The other starting CB was another sophomore who was unranked in his class.
His backup was another unranked Sophomore. I haven't checked the game to see whether this backup was the starter, but it doesn't matter.
Whoever else played for the Eagles wasn't on the 2-deep depth chart to start the season.

76Texan
05-03-2013, 01:23 PM
Against Florida St., Hopkins had 5 catches.

The long one was on a post route where the CB Rhodes left him to take on the slot receiver on an out route. The safety bit the play fake and left Hopkins wide open.

Rhodes allowed a short pass (about 5-6 yards).

Two other short catches were on the freshman Darby who wasn't on the two-deep depth chart.

The fifth catch was a bubble screen for short yardage as well.

Rey
05-03-2013, 01:33 PM
Not going to do the back and forth, but it sounds like you're saying Hopkins isn't that good. Or not as good as he seems.

I haven't even watched that LSU game so I don't know anything about his performance there.

drs23
05-03-2013, 01:35 PM
So 76, are you saying DeAndre Hopkins sucks? Kinda sounds like it. If that is what you're getting at I disagree.

We'll both find out come September though. Can't wait.

76Texan
05-03-2013, 01:49 PM
No, what I said is to temper your enthusiasm a little bit.

Next, in the game against N.C. St., Hopkins caught two passes for 75 yards, both were against David Amerson.
Amerson is a guy all the draftniks here know.
He had given up a ton of big plays this last year.

Hopkins caught one ball for 13 yards when Amerson gave a big cushion and couldn't react back quick enough.
The long ball was when Amerson bit on a double move on the 9 route.

There were five or six balls that were either defended, or straight dropped by Hopkins, or jarred loose by the defender on the hit.

disaacks3
05-03-2013, 01:59 PM
To bring 76Texan's "reality check" back into this plane of reality, I suggest researching receivers, even REALLY good one currently in the NFL *cough*Andre Johnson*cough* who had far worse performances in their final collegiate years. It's a LONG list.

Do I expect him to eclipse Megatron as a rookie? Uh...no.

Do I expect him to be a productive #2 fairly quickly? Yes.

Rey
05-03-2013, 02:09 PM
To bring 76Texan's "reality check" back into this plane of reality, I suggest researching receivers, even REALLY good one currently in the NFL *cough*Andre Johnson*cough* who had far worse performances in their final collegiate years. It's a LONG list.

Do I expect him to eclipse Megatron as a rookie? Uh...no.

Do I expect him to be a productive #2 fairly quickly? Yes.

That's where I'm at.

Rey
05-03-2013, 02:10 PM
No, what I said is to temper your enthusiasm a little bit.

Next, in the game against N.C. St., Hopkins caught two passes for 75 yards, both were against David Amerson.
Amerson is a guy all the draftniks here know.
He had given up a ton of big plays this last year.

Hopkins caught one ball for 13 yards when Amerson gave a big cushion and couldn't react back quick enough.
The long ball was when Amerson bit on a double move on the 9 route.

There were five or six balls that were either defended, or straight dropped by Hopkins, or jarred loose by the defender on the hit.

I don't know if you misunderstood my post, but I was merely saying that Hopkins was going to play a lot and be counted on this year.

HOU-TEX
05-03-2013, 02:17 PM
I don't know if you misunderstood my post, but I was merely saying that Hopkins was going to play a lot and be counted on this year.

Yeah, I've come around to us really not having much else of an option but to start him right away. I was weary at first do to how stubborn Kubiak's been with his offense, but he'll likely be our best option if he learns and understands the playbook. Seeing that Posey will be out for half, if not all season. K-Mart is more of a slot guy and Jean is obviously not going to be that guy

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I've come around to us really not having much else of an option but to start him right away. I was weary at first do to how stubborn Kubiak's been with his offense, but he'll likely be our best option if he learns and understands the playbook. Seeing that Posey will be out for half, if not all season. K-Mart is more of a slot guy and Jean is obviously not going to be that guy

I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.

I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.

HOU-TEX
05-03-2013, 02:39 PM
I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.

I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.

Ha, thanks. I kinda had an idea I wasn't using the correct word. Heck, I think I've even used "weery" a few times too.

badboy
05-03-2013, 03:03 PM
I'm sorry, man, but I've seen this on the board a few times. It's not "weary" (which means tired) but "wary" (which means careful and has the same root as beware).

Kubiak expects 1st rounders to be starters. He's more careful with later round picks and gives them more leeway and time to grow into the offense.

But he's mostly about performance. If you perform in practice, he'll get you onto the field in the real game. If you perform in the game, he'll make sure you get more chances.

Guys who are gamers but don't perform well in practice won't see the field in a Kubiak offense.

Keshawn obviously was showing good things in practice last year, so he leapfrogged over Posey and Jean. But when he got his chances on the field, he didn't show up. If he'd caught more of those passes, he'd have seen more and more thrown to him.I expect Hopkins to start at #2. Kubiak's going to expect a lot from him early. If Hopkins doesn't make the catches or doesn't run the right routes, he'll get demoted and Jean will move up and get another chance.

At least, that's the way I see it and expect it to go down.Just curious but since you brought up grammar, should you begin a sentence with "but"? Would not a ";" then continuation be more proper?

Also, "he'd have seen more and more" seemingly should be more correctly written "more" or "increasingly more"? Perhaps you could elaborate and take the focus away from what we are discussing as I am certain that I was the only one who realized what the OP meant. :strangle:

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 03:18 PM
Just curious but since you brought up grammar, should you begin a sentence with "but"? Would not a ";" then continuation be more proper?


The rule about beginning a sentence with a conjunction is out of date and no longer followed.


Also, "he'd have seen more and more" seemingly should be more correctly written "more" or "increasingly more"? Perhaps you could elaborate and take the focus away from what we are discussing as I am certain that I was the only one who realized what the OP meant. :strangle:

Although "more" would have been preferable in most instances, "more and more" communicated what I wanted to say in that his targets would have increased not once, but multiple times in a discrete (not discreet) way. "Increasingly more" implies a steady ramping up and the use of an adverb there is awkward.

But seriously, if someone uses a word or phrase incorrectly, don't you think it's better to let them know about it so they can use it correctly in the future? I do. It's one thing to get corrected here where usage is more casual than to make the mistake in a setting where you'll be embarrassed.

I don't go through the forum and correct all the mistakes I see. Most of them are just typos and I make as many of them as anyone else. But if I see someone make the same mistake over and over, I consider it a favor to correct it. I'd expect the same.

drs23
05-03-2013, 03:28 PM
The rule about beginning a sentence with a conjunction is out of date and no longer followed.



Although "more" would have been preferable in most instances, "more and more" communicated what I wanted to say in that his targets would have increased not once, but multiple times in a discrete (not discreet) way. "Increasingly more" implies a steady ramping up and the use of an adverb there is awkward.

But seriously, if someone uses a word or phrase incorrectly, don't you think it's better to let them know about it so they can use it correctly in the future? I do. It's one thing to get corrected here where usage is more casual than to make the mistake in a setting where you'll be embarrassed.

I don't go through the forum and correct all the mistakes I see. Most of them are just typos and I make as many of them as anyone else. But if I see someone make the same mistake over and over, I consider it a favor to correct it. I'd expect the same.

TPN, next can you drive home some "then" and "than" lessons? My money says it's a lost cause on this board and many others. :rake:

76Texan
05-03-2013, 03:29 PM
Two other good games were against Ball St and Furman, neither had the team nor the CB that was worth a lick, so it's better to scratch those off.

Against Georgia Tech, a team with no drafted player, Hopkins saw a combination of zone and man.
One CB that was on him is an UDFA for the Saints; the other was a Jr with some speed that may or may not get drafted next year (he wasn't burned deep by Hopkins.)

Hopkins had 7 catches and a ton of yards.
The longest catch was for some 50 yards on a broken play.
Boyd scrambled around and found Hopkins on the side line with nobody covering him.
The next long play went for some 35-40 yards and a TD.
The Yellow jackets were in cover 2 zone under.
The responsible safety bought the pump fake by Boyd, while Hopkins cut back toward the corner on the post corner route.
This was really scheme and mistake by the D and a good job by the QB at least as much as Hopkins's route running. He didn't really beat anybody.
A short pass into the zone turned into a long play of some 25-30 yards when the safety took a bad angle coming up.
Another short pass went for a decent gain when the CB went for the ball and missed.
The other three catches were short passes.

So far, we have yet to see Hopkins run by anybody with his "speed".
He isn't slow, but I really didn't see the kind of speed that can take the top off an NFL defense or a good college defense.

Reality check is all, not to say that Hopkins is a bad player.
There was may be one receiver in this draft that I would put in the first round, and that is Patterson (and I'm not too thrilled about his interview, so there was concern there.)

Tavon Austin is a guy I hesitated to consider highly because I prefer not to draft a slot guy in the first; however, he's really dynamic with the ball, so he's a borderline first rounder for me.

The only other guy that I thought of as having potential as a first rounder was Keenan Allen, but his injury and top speed pulled down his draft grade for me.

My position was to trade out of the first round (take that trade by the Pats for example), because I just don't like these receiver prospects enough in the first.

I've been watching this position closely the last 3 years; tons of college games.
I'm not sure the draft experts out there had watched that much game tapes on receivers. They can't, because they have to watch a lot of different positions.
And I have as much time as they do.

Playoffs
05-03-2013, 09:43 PM
Reality check is all, not to say that Hopkins is a bad player.

Yeah, but how's his spelling and grammar? :kitten:

NCTexan
05-04-2013, 12:31 AM
Yeah, but how's his spelling and grammar? :kitten:

I hear he got your and you're figured out in 8th grade.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p8d6OudgU

jppaul
05-04-2013, 01:58 AM
Rey, you may want to temper your enthusiasm a little.

Let's take a look at his 13-catch game against LSU.
SEC defense, you think they would be good, right?
Well, the strength of that D is the front line; when that front line couldn't get to the QB, their back end can not hold up; and that was what happened in that game.

Out of his 13 catches, 2 were bubble screens when there was nobody on him.
2 were into the zone, and 9 were covered one-on-one.
There were 7 or 8 incompletions where Hopkins didn't get enough separation.

How many do you think he would have gotten against NFL-caliber CB?

I don't know about that, your kinda picking and choosing which I don't believe gives the kid a fair evaluation. I have not watched nearly as much tape as you have but I am not seeing some of the issues you are. For instance, many of the incompletions from the tape I watched was Taj Boyd throwing Hopkins into coverage, ie the opposite of throwing him open. Or throwing high which forces Hopkins to leave his feet instead of continue the route and allowing the CB to close. I came away more concerned with Boyd's accuracy on short to intermediate throws than Hopkins separation.

I think he runs fantastic routes. He is especially effective on the double move, showing both an understanding of the coverage presented and an excellent sense of timing. He shows run after catch ability, with his ability to stick his foot in the ground and cut on underneath routes being his most dangerous move.

He drops some balls, seems to be anticipating his run after the catch before the ball is in his hands. Could do a better job of high pointing the ball and attacking it when it's in the air and sometimes waits for it.

Excellent spatial awareness, body control and competiveness. He played whoever was in front of him and consistently produced on a high level. I really couldnt ask for more. I am in agreement with those who said 60 catches. Just my two cents.

76Texan
05-04-2013, 11:03 AM
I uploaded some screen shots of the LSU game to photobucket.
See for yourself:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/76Texan/slideshow/Hopkins/vs%20LSU


Play 1 - 10:52 Second Qtr
Defender forced Hopkins out of bound.

Play 2 - 13:50 Third Qtr
Hopkins couldn't hold on to the ball as LB pulled his arms apart.
Also, it looks like he caugh the nose of the football.

Play 3 - 1:42 Third Qtr
On a quick in, Hopkins couldn't on to the ball as the safety came up with a hit that jarred the ball loose.

Play 4 - 3:53 Fourth Qtr
Hopkins allowed the CB Simon to pin him to the side line, not giving the QB much room to work with.
He didn't get any separation, and thus had a hard time with the play.
One or two more steps inside and he would have the room along the side line to use his body to shield the defender from the ball.
Look how he got closer and closer to the sideline on the vertical stem.
Toward the end of the play, he was on the white little yard markers along the side line;
that is just too close to the side line.
He let the CB win the inside position.

Play 5 - 1:38 Fourth Qtr
The ball went right through his hands.


Play 5 - 1:32 Fourth Qtr
Hopkins could have pressed the route a couple yards further before he made the come back.
No separation allowed the CB to be right on him.
The ball was right where it needed to be if only he had worked a couple more yard downfield
(maybe 3 yards past the down marker before turning around.)

Play 6
Hopkins would have done better taking a straight stem or took it a little to the outside first;
instead, he started his stem to the inside immediately, giving the safety a clue to the quick in route.
It was a bang bang play; the commentator saw no reason for a PI call.
(But that's beside the point; Hopkins could have taken a better stem on the route.)

For the still shots that you can view one by one, click here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/76Texan/library/Hopkins/vs%20LSU

First, click on the top left photo.
When you get to the View Page, you can use the NEXT button to move along the series.

greekdbag
05-05-2013, 12:29 AM
I agree with this guy..


http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/2/23/4020522/receivers-of-the-2013-nfl-draft-deandre-hopkins-better-than-expected

Overall: 91

Hopkins is currently rated as my number three receiver but I could see him over take Patterson or Allen if there are any slip ups. Hopkins is supremely able and well rounded. A great route runner, Hopkins greatest ability is his amazing control of his body and ability to throw defenders off balance. He has a great frame with length much greater than a player his height and a strong frame. His ability to fight for balls and mechanic to make every catch is extremely refined. His blocking needs work but the size and willingness are there. Hopkins ability as a deep threat are probably some of the best in the class. Only Patterson's YAC ability exceeds Hopkins' ability as a deep threat. If Hopkins is available at the 27th overall pick I would be ecstatic. He is the most refined receiver in the draft.

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 02:13 AM
Against Florida St., Hopkins had 5 catches.

The long one was on a post route where the CB Rhodes left him to take on the slot receiver on an out route. The safety bit the play fake and left Hopkins wide open.

Rhodes allowed a short pass (about 5-6 yards).

Two other short catches were on the freshman Darby who wasn't on the two-deep depth chart.

The fifth catch was a bubble screen for short yardage as well.

I saw the same thing and that wasmy concern. He doesn't get good seperation and if u look at his 20 yd shuttle,you will see and alarmingtime that backs it up. That's why I was more in favor of a burst guy like hunter or williams. Maybe even king from Georgie who torched Alabama.

Playoffs
05-05-2013, 11:28 AM
Hopkins was definitely a downfield receiver , versus dink & screen...http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/targetwr1.gif


Surprisingly, Hopkins was a major deep threat. This surprised me because I thought of Hopkins as a guy who ran a lot of curls and mid-range outside routes. We see that 70% of his catches were past 6 yards. The highest in the major WRs for this class, excepting Terrance Williams


http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/yardage.gif


DeAndre Hopkins shows us how much deeper he caught the ball than the others. On average he caught the ball 12 yards from the LOS, before YAC.


How Did Their Systems Help/Hurt Them?
http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/adj.gif

Hopkins numbers would be obscene with more targets. He’s looking at north of 1600 yards with more targets, this of course is due to his high average catch distance.


http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/04/tier1-wrs/

76Texan
05-05-2013, 01:17 PM
A receiver's production is directly tied with his QB.
If he has a good QB, the receiver should be helped.

In the same article, you would find that Tyler Bray didn't help Hunter as he missed quite a few deep balls.

By the same token, Zac Maynard didn't help Kennan Allen (who isn't a speed guy to start) with his weak arm. If you don't have time to watch the California Golden Bear, you can still read about it.
Furthermore, their schedule is stacked against good secondary in the PAC 12 this past year.
Their non-conference schedule had Ohio St., who has as a good secondary as any in the country. One CB, Roby, was a Jr that is rated number one in his class, and is predicted to be the number one corner taken in the draft next year.
The other CB is Howard, our UDFA; the nickel/3rd safety is Another of our UDFA.
One of their safeties is predicted to be the number two safety in the draft next year. The other boasts 4.43 speed.
Nevada is another non-conference opponent; they had a CB Wooten who is a 6th rd pick as a safety Duke Williams who is a 4th rd pick.


Hopkins faced nowhere near the competition.

And you already know that pre-draft, I had even downgraded Allen's status to unknown, due to his lack of speed and injury concern.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 02:38 PM
I'll give you this 76....... You definitely go through great lengths to try and prove your points.

greekdbag
05-05-2013, 02:41 PM
A receiver's production is directly tied with his QB.
If he has a good QB, the receiver should be helped.

In the same article, you would find that Tyler Bray didn't help Hunter as he missed quite a few deep balls.

By the same token, Zac Maynard didn't help Kennan Allen (who isn't a speed guy to start) with his weak arm. If you don't have time to watch the California Golden Bear, you can still read about it.
Furthermore, their schedule is stacked against good secondary in the PAC 12 this past year.
Their non-conference schedule had Ohio St., who has as a good secondary as any in the country. One CB, Roby, was a Jr that is rated number one in his class, and is predicted to be the number one corner taken in the draft next year.
The other CB is Howard, our UDFA; the nickel/3rd safety is Another of our UDFA.
One of their safeties is predicted to be the number two safety in the draft next year. The other boasts 4.43 speed.
Nevada is another non-conference opponent; they had a CB Wooten who is a 6th rd pick as a safety Duke Williams who is a 4th rd pick.


Hopkins faced nowhere near the competition.

And you already know that pre-draft, I had even downgraded Allen's status to unknown, due to his lack of speed and injury concern.

Boyd isn't a great qb either. He's very overrated. And to say that Hopkins faced "nowhere near the competition" that Keenan Allen did is extreme hyperbole and makes it hard for me to take you seriously. We get it. You like Keenan Allen and don't like Hopkins. Great. Most of us disagree and have watched a lot of games as well.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 02:46 PM
Wrong!
I don't dislike Hopkins and I don't favor Keenan Allen either.

infantrycak
05-05-2013, 02:52 PM
Wrong!
I don't dislike Hopkins and I don't favor Keenan Allen either.

I don't know your opinion on Allen but you have very clearly displayed an intention to slag Hopkins far beyond anything credible.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 02:54 PM
If you want to know the level of competition that these receivers, you can spent time to look it up.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 02:55 PM
I don't know your opinion on Allen but you have very clearly displayed an intention to slag Hopkins far beyond anything credible.

I'm sure it's very unpopular to point out the lacking of a first rounder of the local team.

infantrycak
05-05-2013, 03:02 PM
I'm sure it's very unpopular to point out the lacking of a first rounder of the local team.

It has nothing to do with unpopular. It has to do with you staking out a position and then doing everything possible to defend it. Every good play is on the QB. Every bad play is on Hopkins. It is ridiculous and transparent. I think you are being a joke on this one. Now carry on, I'm done.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 03:03 PM
As far as the QBs are concerned, the ACC coaches selected Tajh Boyd as the Offensive Player of he Year.

In the SEC, the coaches put Johnny Football on the first team, AJ McCarron on the second team and Aaron Murray got HM.
There was no Tyler Bray anywhere on the list.

Same thing goes for Zac Maynard.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 03:03 PM
It has nothing to do with unpopular. It has to do with you staking out a position and then doing everything possible to defend it. Every good play is on the QB. Every bad play is on Hopkins. It is ridiculous and transparent. I think you are being a joke on this one. Now carry on, I'm done.

That is what you're saying, not I.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 03:04 PM
Wrong!
I don't dislike Hopkins and I don't favor Keenan Allen either.

If that's the case then I'd hate to see how much time you'd spend trying to discredit a player you don't like then.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 03:07 PM
If that's the case then I'd hate to see how much time you'd spend trying to discredit a player you don't like then.

I spent a lot of time on Jason Allen even though I didn't dislike him as much as people thought, LOL!

I simply pointed out that he played at the level of a journeyman.

My entire point is that I don't see Hopkins as a first rounder.
I also said that I'm not even sure I like any receiver in this draft class in the first.

htownfan32
05-05-2013, 03:23 PM
I spent a lot of time on Jason Allen even though I didn't dislike him as much as people thought, LOL!

I simply pointed out that he played at the level of a journeyman.

My entire point is that I don't see Hopkins as a first rounder.
I also said that I'm not even sure I like any receiver in this draft class in the first.

So in your opinion, the draft falling the way it did, who would you have taken in the 1st? Would you have traded down?

htownfan32
05-05-2013, 03:25 PM
iirc you took... Barkevious Mingo in the TT mock? So maybe a pass rusher? Or were you thinking/hoping for an NT?

76Texan
05-05-2013, 03:29 PM
My position was to trade out of the first round.
Take whichever receiver you like in the second, and use the extra picks on other positions of your preference.

The Patriots trade was there, so it's not like it's not do-able.

BTW, Mike Mayock, who may be the most reputable draft analyst out there, did not have Hopkins in the first round.
Both CBS Sports and NFL Draft Scout also had him solidly in the second.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 03:37 PM
My position was to trade out of the first round.
Take whichever receiver you like in the second, and use the extra picks on other positions of your preference.

The Patriots trade was there, so it's not like it's not do-able.

BTW, Mike Mayock, who may be the most reputable draft analyst out there, did not have Hopkins in the first round.
Both CBS Sports and NFL Draft Scout also had him solidly in the second.

Mike Mayock also had Duane Brown going in the third round and said he didn't see him as an elite Left Tackle prospect. This game can be played all day.

infantrycak
05-05-2013, 03:38 PM
BTW, Mike Mayock, who may be the most reputable draft analyst out there, did not have Hopkins in the first round.

He also had Geno Smith going #6 overall. Good luck with the swami argument.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 03:40 PM
My position was to trade out of the first round.
Take whichever receiver you like in the second, and use the extra picks on other positions of your preference.

The Patriots trade was there, so it's not like it's not do-able.

BTW, Mike Mayock, who may be the most reputable draft analyst out there, did not have Hopkins in the first round.
Both CBS Sports and NFL Draft Scout also had him solidly in the second.

Although Mayock didn't have Hopkins as a 1st rounder, he recognizes that certain players are going to be rated by certain teams because of scheme fit. One of the examples he gave was Hopkins. Although Hopkins wasn't the highest rated guy on Mayock's board, he considered him a better fit for the Texans than the other guys.

You're looking at this like "all things are created equal" when they're not.

You're saying trade back into the second and then take whatever receiver falls to you and get a whole bunch of other picks. And that's a great strategy IF:
1. You don't really care which receiver you get.
2. You think you have a lot of holes you've got to fill
3. You don't mind filling those holes with lesser round talent.

But I think it's pretty plain that the Texans favored Hopkins over the other guys and not just by a little. So they CARED about which receiver they got and they got the one they wanted. If they had traded back, they might not have and they would have had to "settle" for a guy. If they weren't careful, there might have been 0 receivers that they really liked falling to them.

And they weren't wanting a bunch of lower round picks because they felt like they had enough of them. When Smith got the guys he wanted, that's when he traded back and picked up lower round picks. Everything after the 4th round was gravy.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 04:52 PM
I would agree that having Tajh Boyd was extremely beneficial to Hopkins. I don't understand why some people think Boyd is overrated. I'm not picking on any poster here, because I live in ACC country and I hear it down here as well. I have Boyd as my #1 quarterback prospect for next year. He and Bridgewater look the most impressive to me.

Boyd is somewhat like a Russell Wilson, in that he just makes plays. He doesn't stand out physically, but he just makes it happen. I remember Russell Wilson at NC State and he was an absolute monster, much like Boyd. I was always very high on Wilson, much higher than most, but maybe that's because not alot of people got to see him play for NC State. It was not like at Wisconson; many times at NC State he would throw it 40 times a game. He was so good and used to BURN Florida State. Boyd does the same thing.

More on topic, Hopkins is probably pretty difficult to grade. Clemson's offense is so unique and Tajh Boyd does keep plays alive with his legs, that sometimes guys just get WIDE open. I love Hopkins though and I think he is going to be a hell of a pro. Many times that he did get wide open, he got himself open through route running precision, so I am not at all concerned about him being a product of their system.

Lucky
05-05-2013, 04:59 PM
He also had Geno Smith going #6 overall. Good luck with the swami argument.
He also thought Reggie Bush was the greatest prospect ever and at one time had Reggie McNeal as the top rated QB in the 2006 draft. Mayock is not above swinging and missing wildly.

Thorn
05-05-2013, 05:49 PM
To bring 76Texan's "reality check" back into this plane of reality, I suggest researching receivers, even REALLY good one currently in the NFL *cough*Andre Johnson*cough* who had far worse performances in their final collegiate years. It's a LONG list.

Do I expect him to eclipse Megatron as a rookie? Uh...no.

Do I expect him to be a productive #2 fairly quickly? Yes.

I agree with this. I think he'll end up being the #2 receiver we've been waiting for. In the long run though, we'll still have to somehow get a new #1 receiver and I'm not sure this guy is it.

CretorFrigg
05-05-2013, 05:56 PM
I agree with this. I think he'll end up being the #2 receiver we've been waiting for. In the long run though, we'll still have to somehow get a new #1 receiver and I'm not sure this guy is it.

This is how I see it. I think he'll be a very great and productive #2 receiver, much like Anquan Boldin. He can even take over the #1 spot, but I don't believe he will be the next Megatron or AJ.

Playoffs
05-05-2013, 06:18 PM
I don't dislike Hopkins and I don't favor Keenan Allen either.

^This. 76T is just doing his due diligence. He puts a lot of time into developing his opinions on players. No need to attack him. He has no ulterior motives. He's just voicing his opinion backed by film study.

You'll recall not many were in his corner when he took a more unpopular stance -- that Kareem Jackson was much better than most thought. Then 2012 happened.

My problem with taking the Vikings deal is: Patterson, Hopkins, Hunter, and Woods are off the board. I think Hopkins was the clear choice for this team at this time. I love so much of what he does. What we know is the guy will work to maximize his potential. That's big, because there are some hugely physically gifted NFL WRs who just disappoint.

He'll never be AJ Green, but he could be at the top of #2s with upside.

Texan_Bill
05-05-2013, 06:18 PM
And no one thought that Steve Largent would be an 8x All Pro selection.

My point? Let the guy play a down in the NFL before all these self-indulgent predictions of who this guy can or can not be.

Fred
05-05-2013, 06:43 PM
I don't dislike Hopkins ...
You throw this in every 10 posts or so, in between pointing out that every pass he has ever caught was on a fluke play. This one was a bubble screen, that one was a broken play, all his good games were against a cornerback who was a 7 year old girl with one leg. But its good that you don't dislike him!

As others have pointed out the WRs started coming off the board pretty fast. Trade down a few spots and you looking at Allen and Patton - who you could get by trading down from the 2nd round pick.

I don't know anything first hand. I don't watch tape, I just read what other people say and get a concensus type feel. The concensus seems to be the Tenn guys have higher upside but that Hopkins is more of a sure thing. Even if the only passes he ever caught were when he got away with PI against a one-legged girl with hemophilia.:kitten:

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 07:21 PM
If u look at the top 20 wrs in the nfl,none of them had as slow of a 20 yd shuttle as hopkins. Even a so called slow guy like boldin ran a 4.13 shuttle. That's why he's been getting open with that 4.7 40. A slow shuttle=inability to sfift weight and create seperation. Devier posey last year was a 4.12 shuttle guy. When u watch clemson, boyd either threw hopkins open most times or it was from a broken play by boyd.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 07:25 PM
When u watch clemson, boyd either threw hopkins open most times or it was from a broken play by boyd.

Maybe you should watch Clemson. It doesn't sound like you have at all.

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 07:32 PM
Maybe you should watch Clemson. It doesn't sound like you have at all.

Watched clemson a lot. Boyd threw that guy open a lot. Not to mention the broken plays boyd made with his feet to buy time.

thunderkyss
05-05-2013, 07:35 PM
As others have pointed out the WRs started coming off the board pretty fast. Trade down a few spots and you looking at Allen and Patton - who you could get by trading down from the 2nd round pick.

I don't know anything first hand. I don't watch tape, I just read what other people say and get a concensus type feel. The concensus seems to be the Tenn guys have higher upside but that Hopkins is more of a sure thing. Even if the only passes he ever caught were when he got away with PI against a one-legged girl with hemophilia.:kitten:

27.......

We got Hopkins at 27. The only WR off the board was Tavon Austin.

What do we say about QBs when only one goes in the first round?

What do we say about the RB class when none of them go in the first round?

How does that apply to WRs who were passed by 26 other teams?

It's not a definite that Hopkins won't amount to much, or that none of the 2013 running backs will be all-pros, that's not what I'm saying. He's going to have flaws

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 07:35 PM
So, your saying that either Boyd threw him open or he was open due to Boyd keeping the play alive on every single reception? That's exactly what you said.

You can watch a highlight film and completely dismantle that argument. You can watch 1 full Clemson game and laugh at that argument.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I guess some people just don't know wtf they are watching.

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 07:41 PM
So, your saying that either Boyd threw him open or he was open due to Boyd keeping the play alive on every single reception? That's exactly what you said.

You can watch a highlight film and completely dismantle that argument. You can watch 1 full Clemson game and laugh at that argument.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I guess some people just don't know wtf they are watching.

I didn't say all,but he caught a lot bubble screens. Also he didn't create a lot of seperation when he was locked up in man. So boyd would throw him open which is something schaub doesn't do. He also benefitted from that quirky offense and boyd extending plays with his feet.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 07:43 PM
Boyd threw Hopkins open on this play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cd4EjpN7QQ)?

This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRBCebCeyKY)?

This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_bf87ZQHfg)?

This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkfx5blW_3U)?

Your argument is not good.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 07:44 PM
I didn't say all,but he caught a lot bubble screens. Also he didn't create a lot of seperation when he was locked up in man. So boyd would throw him open which is something schaub doesn't do. He also benefitted from that quirky offense and boyd extending plays with his feet.

You said that Boyd throws him open most times OR it was a broken play by Boyd.

I can quote it again for you if you'd like.

Also, he caught alot of bubble screens? What are you talking about???

http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/targetwr1.gif

Link (http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/04/tier1-wrs/)

Clearly, your wrong.

Texan_Bill
05-05-2013, 08:03 PM
Hopkins sucks as a first round draft choice!!!

Signed,
Those that criticized Duane Brown as a Tackle being such a reach



CHEESE AND RICE People.......... Can the guy play a game in the NFL before you self-proclaimed experts prove you're expertice?



Apparently not!!! You people be need to be proud of yourselves.... Which one of you jabronis will actually fess up when and if he's good!!!

HAVE BALLS.............
Call your shot NOW!!!

htownfan32
05-05-2013, 08:18 PM
^This. 76T is just doing his due diligence. He puts a lot of time into developing his opinions on players. No need to attack him. He has no ulterior motives. He's just voicing his opinion backed by film study.

You'll recall not many were in his corner when he took a more unpopular stance -- that Kareem Jackson was much better than most thought. Then 2012 happened.

My problem with taking the Vikings deal is: Patterson, Hopkins, Hunter, and Woods are off the board. I think Hopkins was the clear choice for this team at this time. I love so much of what he does. What we know is the guy will work to maximize his potential. That's big, because there are some hugely physically gifted NFL WRs who just disappoint.

He'll never be AJ Green, but he could be at the top of #2s with upside.

This. No need to attack 76. He puts time into what he's doing, and he's not some Titans fan in disguise to attack us. IMO some people are just overreacting because 76 is not all aboard on the 1st round pick train and we're afraid he's right. The fact is, Hopkins is yet to play a single down in the NFL. And until he does, we'll never know exactly what he'll be for us. He could meet, exceed, or disappoint our expectations - but we won't know until August and September.

I don't agree with him on Hopkins, I think he fits nicely into our offense - but there's no need to attack 76.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 08:27 PM
This. No need to attack 76. He puts time into what he's doing, and he's not some Titans fan in disguise to attack us. IMO some people are just overreacting because 76 is not all aboard on the 1st round pick train and we're afraid he's right. The fact is, Hopkins is yet to play a single down in the NFL. And until he does, we'll never know exactly what he'll be for us. He could meet, exceed, or disappoint our expectations - but we won't know until August and September.

I don't agree with him on Hopkins, I think he fits nicely into our offense - but there's no need to attack 76.

Pretty much agree 100% with this, but it does come off a bit overly negative when the posts are all back to back like that. I think some of the concerns are legitimate, but I think there is plenty of great film on Hopkins to feel good about this pick.

76 does have some positive posts about Hopkins on record, but they aren't nearly as in depth and they were before the draft if I remember correctly.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 08:27 PM
I haven't really seen any attacks on 76. I've seen people disagree with his opinion on Hopkins and state that they think his opinion is slanted because he wanted someone else going into the draft. I have yet to see anything out of line said to anyone in this thread. I have a lot of respect for the time he puts into film study because Lord knows I don't wanna do it.

TexansSeminole
05-05-2013, 08:37 PM
I haven't really seen any attacks on 76. I've seen people disagree with his opinion on Hopkins and state that they think his opinion is slanted because he wanted someone else going into the draft. I have yet to see anything out of line said to anyone in this thread. I have a lot of respect for the time he puts into film study because Lord knows I don't wanna do it.

Yup. And everybody is right on occasion and wrong on occasion, so there is no way to say he is wrong in his opinion.

I remember when I had DeAndre McDaniel as my #1 safety and he didn't even get drafted. He signed an UDFA contract, but didn't stick. It's all opinion unless someone states something factually or statistically wrong. I only watch games as they happen, albeit alot of them, but I don't have the time or patience to do film study like 76 does. There's always props from me on that.

Rey
05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
Hopkins is going to be a very nice addition to this offense. The routes we are going to ask him to run fit his skill set very nicely. He catches the ball well on traffic, has good body control to adjust to make difficult catches, has good speed, he's tough, gritty, and he plays with a lot of passion.

Of course he's going to have some rough moments. Of course he's not going to come in and be the best rookie wr ever. Yes he has some faults.

But despite all that I'm excited about him and I believe he's going to help the team immediately.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 09:35 PM
For me, the key things are as followed:

You have about 6-1/2 years to build a team, or do you guys want to give your HC more time? Be up front about it.

Each year, you only have one first round pick unless your GM is so good he sold other teams a bill of goods, trading a third for next year first.
On a few occasion, some team may be willing to give your their future first for this year high second to mid second rounder.

Basically, you need to use your first round picks on the most important positions of your team.

A LT, a QB, a number one receiver, for example.
And maybe a RB (if you definitely wants to build a run first team) or maybe a TE (if your team place TE at a premium), or perhaps a Center (if you think he's really really good).

On defense, you may choose to go with a monster interior linman, an edge rusher, a big time Inside LB, a number one CB, or a great safety.

How many positions that are named already?
More than 7.

If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.

We have to evaluate Hopkins as the number one receiver in a couple of years.
The bar has to be set high.
It wasn't his fault that he got drafted in the first, but it is what it is.

infantrycak
05-05-2013, 09:45 PM
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.

There is your logic fail.

Rey
05-05-2013, 09:50 PM
I'm sorry 76 but that makes no sense. When you pick at the bottom of the first round you have to pick the best player you can.

This wasn't a top ten pick. There's nothing wrong with picking a guy at 27 that you think his floor is solid 2nd wr.

Fred
05-05-2013, 10:09 PM
27.......

We got Hopkins at 27. The only WR off the board was Tavon Austin.

What do we say about QBs when only one goes in the first round?

What do we say about the RB class when none of them go in the first round?

How does that apply to WRs who were passed by 26 other teams?

It's not a definite that Hopkins won't amount to much, or that none of the 2013 running backs will be all-pros, that's not what I'm saying. He's going to have flaws

I meant starting with the Texans pick WRs started off the boards...

18 picks in a row, no WRs (9-26)

Then in a space of 15 picks:
27 Hopkins
29 Patterson
34 Hunter
41 Woods

Then another 17 picks in a no WRs (42-58 -> which carries you to after the Texans 2nd round pick).

So the point being if you traded back from 27 to 42 or 35, you would have lost a lot on picking the WR you wanted.

The argument "WRs who were passed by 26 other teams" is inherently self-defeating. Anyone at any position picked #27 was passed over 26 times. That will lead you to: "J.J. Watt can't be any good - 10 teams passed over him. Blaine Gabbert is clearly better than Watt - he was picked ahead of him." And I don't think you want to go there.

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 10:11 PM
There is your logic fail.

U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.

Fred
05-05-2013, 10:18 PM
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.

If only your first round picks contribute, you're failing your team. "Number two" receiver means starter. And seriously - all this "he can never be a number one receiver" stuff: he will never be Megatron or Andre but there aren't 32 of them in the league. If you pick a 10 year starter who becomes only the 16th best receiver in the NFL with the #27 pick that is pretty good. If you pick a number one receiver like Charles Rogers with the #2 pick, or Troy Williamson with the #7 pick then you are failing your team.

Playoffs
05-05-2013, 10:21 PM
I believe 1st round WRs historically have a 75% failure rate.

But I'd like to think we got it right in '13. I know I wasn't enamored with the top of the '12 class in comparison.

leebigeztx
05-05-2013, 10:22 PM
If only your first round picks contribute, you're failing your team. "Number two" receiver means starter. And seriously - all this "he can never be a number one receiver" stuff: he will never be Megatron or Andre but there aren't 32 of them in the league. If you pick a 10 year starter who becomes only the 16th best receiver in the NFL with the #27 pick that is pretty good. If you pick a number one receiver like Charles Rogers with the #2 pick, or Troy Williamson with the #7 pick then you are failing your team.

Reggie wayne,dez bryant,hakeem nicks,kenny brit were all drafted late 1st correct?

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 10:28 PM
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.

We have to evaluate Hopkins as the number one receiver in a couple of years.

I totally and completely disagree with this thinking.

You want your 1st round picks to be starters.

A #2 WR is a starter.

You want your 1st round picks to build strengths.

IF Hopkins steps in and starts and upgrades the production we've gotten at the #2 WR spot, then it's a victory because it takes our WR corps which is questionable and takes a step into building it into a strength of our team.

Fred
05-05-2013, 10:35 PM
Reggie wayne,dez bryant,hakeem nicks,kenny brit were all drafted late 1st correct?

Yes, all guys who are solid #2 receivers - forced into #1 if you don't have a real #1. Like Hopkins may be when Andre retires.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 10:37 PM
My mind is blown by some of the thinking in this thread. Bill had it right when he said let the guy play. Who in the hell thought a lot of receivers would go on to be #1 receivers that weren't highly drafted?

Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 10:39 PM
There is your logic fail.

So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 10:43 PM
So you expected Hopkins to be a number receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?

So the Colts were stupid for drafting Reggie Wayne? Falcons stupid for drafting Julio Jones? C'mon 76 you're seriously bugging on some of the stuff you're saying here.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 10:48 PM
My mind is blown by some of the thinking in this thread. Bill had it right when he said let the guy play. Who in the hell thought a lot of receivers would go on to be #1 receivers that weren't highly drafted?

Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.

It is people (teams and fans alike) like to evaluate players.
You have to make some type of projections.

BTW, in the college football forum, there was a thread about how the Tex as might take a receiver in the first.

There were a few top five lists from the "experts", none of them had Hopkins' name on it.
My response to those list is that there's no guarantee that those guys will have a better career than some others whose names were not on those lists.

Basically, I saw that the players have a little quirt here and there.
Some are better than others in certain facets; ie. I was saying that those guys may not have a better career than other guys including Hopkins.

Basically, I saw a bunch of second rounders, with only a few borderline first rounders; there wasn't a sure thing.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 10:49 PM
U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.

1st Round WRs in the 20-32 range

2012 --
Kendall Wright, Titans -- A #2 receiver
AJ Jenkins, 49ers -- Expected to be a #2 but was only active for 3 games

2011 --
Jonathon Baldwin, Chiefs -- A #2 receiver behind Bowe

2010 --
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos -- #1/#2 receiver depending on what they planned on doing.
Dez Bryant, Cowboys -- #1 receiver but with high bust potential and they already had Miles Austin

2009 --
Percy Harvin, Vikings -- A future #1
Hakeem Nicks, Giants -- A no pressure, Future #1 with Smith and Manningham already on board, could end up as a #2 without a problem

2008 --
None.

2007 --
Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs -- A #1
Robert Meachem, Saints -- A hopeful #1 that busted
Craig Davis, Chargers -- A #2 with Vincent Jackson at #1
Anthony Gonzalez, Colts -- A future #2 with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison still on board

2006 --
Santonio Holmes, Steelers -- A #2/#1 guy with Hines Ward already on board

2005 --
Matt Jones, Jags -- Who knows what the Jags were thinking here. A developmental receiver.
Mark Clayton, Ravens -- A future #1 to take over for Derrick Mason
Roddy White, Falcons -- A future #1/#2 behind Finneran and Michael Jenkins

Using a late first round pick on a guy who's a #2 receiver doesn't appear to be all that strange or unusual. Like I said in another post, don't look at it like #1 and #2, look at it like you've got 2 starting wideout positions to fill. So get the best guys you can.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 10:50 PM
So the Colts were stupid for drafting Reggie Wayne? Falcons stupid for drafting Julio Jones? C'mon 76 you're seriously bugging on some of the stuff you're saying here.

I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 10:51 PM
So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?

I'm not Cak but...

I don't mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a #2 receiver.

I wouldn't even mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a slot receiver, if it was the right slot receiver.

I just want my first rounders to be starters.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 10:52 PM
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.

And Anthony Gonzalez?

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 10:55 PM
It is people (teams and fans alike) like to evaluate players.
You have to make some type of projections.

BTW, in the college football forum, there was a thread about how the Tex as might take a receiver in the first.

There were a few top five lists from the "experts", none of them had Hopkins' name on it.
My response to those list is that there's no guarantee that those guys will have a better career than some others whose names were not on those lists.

Basically, I saw that the players have a little quirt here and there.
Some are better than others in certain facets; ie. I was saying that those guys may not have a better career than other guys including Hopkins.

Basically, I saw a bunch of second rounders, with only a few borderline first rounders; there wasn't a sure thing.

Its the draft my friend. There isn't a sure thing anytime you pick someone. And to clear it up I'm don't mind anyone evaluating. Where it gets silly though is proclaiming that a guy has a limited ceiling based on where he's drafted and the role that he'll initially play as some have done. Your opinion of him is completely fine and I have no problem with it. Again, I respect the time you've put into scouting him. I just disagree with your assessment of him.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 10:57 PM
I can see a spread team wanting to have two very good receivers on their team.
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.

Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 10:58 PM
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.

Reggie Wayne was the number 2 option the entire time Harrison was still playing. Well except for maybe his last year. And I hate to break it to you but Roddy White is still the number 1 option in Atlanta.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2013, 11:00 PM
I can see a spread team wanting to have two very good receivers on their team.
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.

Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?

This doesn't make any sense at all.

Rey
05-05-2013, 11:06 PM
Aj Jenkins was drafted in the first round last year.

Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...

Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.

Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.

This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.

But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.

Rey
05-05-2013, 11:12 PM
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.

Ok, well then roddy white is the number 2.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:18 PM
Reggie Wayne was the number 2 option the entire time Harrison was still playing. Well except for maybe his last year. And I hate to break it to you but Roddy White is still the number 1 option in Atlanta.

Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good as a number one on other teams with my first round pick.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:20 PM
Ok, well then roddy white is the number 2.

What I mean is that Jones can be a number one on some, if not many NFL teams.

Texn4life
05-05-2013, 11:21 PM
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good a number one on other teams with my first round pick.

And I'm saying that your assertion that Hopkins can't be a number 1 is silly. Unless you're hitting on every prospect that you study then there's no way you can say with certainty that he can't or won't be a number 1.

Rey
05-05-2013, 11:22 PM
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good a number one on other teams with my first round pick.

So you wouldn't spend a #1 on Hines Ward?

Jeremy maclin?

We are talking pick 27 here. Not a top ten pick. 5 picks later would you be ok with it?

Rey
05-05-2013, 11:24 PM
What I mean is that Jones can be a number one on some, if not many NFL teams.

Jones was picked #6 overall.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:29 PM
Aj Jenkins was drafted in the first round last year.

Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...

Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.

Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.

This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.

But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.You guys are throwing out too many names without even looking deeply into those situations first.

For example, the Saints are a spread team; and like I said, a team like that can use two good receivers.

Wright led the Titans in catch as a rookie with 18 more than Washington and 19 more than Britt. Obviously, they liked to use him in the short game a lot (and he was out for one game as well).

Was A J Jenkins a good move for the Niners?
Would the Cardinals be better off drafting a QB instead?
Same thing with the Chiefs.

The only time in his 4-yr career when Maclin had fewer catches than D Jackson was his rookie year.

greekdbag
05-05-2013, 11:30 PM
U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.

Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:30 PM
Jones was picked #6 overall.

I know, and I expected him to have the talent to be a number one receiver on many teams.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.

I think you want a combination of as many test scores as possible:
The 10-yd split, the vertical, the broad jump - all are designed to measure the explosiveness of a receiver (and the forty time is also a consideration, with the 3-cone time not as important for receivers.)
Hopkins isn't among the top guys with a good combination of those tests.

greekdbag
05-05-2013, 11:36 PM
I would agree that having Tajh Boyd was extremely beneficial to Hopkins. I don't understand why some people think Boyd is overrated. I'm not picking on any poster here, because I live in ACC country and I hear it down here as well. I have Boyd as my #1 quarterback prospect for next year. He and Bridgewater look the most impressive to me.

Boyd is somewhat like a Russell Wilson, in that he just makes plays. He doesn't stand out physically, but he just makes it happen. I remember Russell Wilson at NC State and he was an absolute monster, much like Boyd. I was always very high on Wilson, much higher than most, but maybe that's because not alot of people got to see him play for NC State. It was not like at Wisconson; many times at NC State he would throw it 40 times a game. He was so good and used to BURN Florida State. Boyd does the same thing.

More on topic, Hopkins is probably pretty difficult to grade. Clemson's offense is so unique and Tajh Boyd does keep plays alive with his legs, that sometimes guys just get WIDE open. I love Hopkins though and I think he is going to be a hell of a pro. Many times that he did get wide open, he got himself open through route running precision, so I am not at all concerned about him being a product of their system.

Bridgewater is miles ahead of Boyd for me. I have never been able to get on the Tahj Boyd wagon. Maybe it's because I watched a bunch of his games in 2011 and his accuracy was not impressive to me.

76Texan
05-05-2013, 11:53 PM
And I'm saying that your assertion that Hopkins can't be a number 1 is silly. Unless you're hitting on every prospect that you study then there's no way you can say with certainty that he can't or won't be a number 1.

I'm saying that the probabilty is not high.

You have to take into considerations all of those tests that I just mentioned in a post above. They don't give as a good a probability than those that were studied in a certain metric valuation that some board members had posted somewhere. (I think CNND had a post in the NFL forum about it.)

greekdbag
05-05-2013, 11:54 PM
I think you want a combination of as many test scores as possible:
The 10-yd split, the vertical, the broad jump - all are designed to measure the explosiveness of a receiver (and the forty time is also a consideration, with the 3-cone time not as important for receivers.)
Hopkins isn't among the top guys with a good combination of those tests.

Well, a 1.55 10-yard split is really good and a 36 inch vertical is good as well. He also killed it in the gauntlet drill. And he measured in with very big hands and very long arms as I've said before. I just see a Roddy White clone when I watch him play, though, which is what matters most.

He had the over 4.5 forty time at the combine but he ran sub 4.5 at his pro day so take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9028253/deandre-hopkins-clemson-tigers-runs-40-yard-dash-441-seconds

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 12:00 AM
The only guy I would have taken over Hopkins is Datone Jones and he went one spot before. I also liked Sylvester Williams, but Hopkins was higher on the list for me. And has it been confirmed that Minnesota offered us the same trade as they offered to NE? Rick Smith's brother is on twitter lol and he said the only trade down offer they had involved an added fifth rounder. If you want Hopkins badly, which the Texans did, you don't risk losing him just to add an extra fifth.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 12:01 AM
I'm saying that the probabilty is not high.

You have to take into considerations all of those tests that I just mentioned in a post above. They don't give as a good a probability than those that were studied in a certain metric valuation that some board members had posted somewhere. (I think CNND had a post in the NFL forum about it.)

The tests set the ceiling huh? I must be too old school to understand that and I'm only 31. Sorry, I'm just not buying what you're selling in this particular situation.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 12:09 AM
The tests set the ceiling huh? I must be too old school to understand that and I'm only 31. Sorry, I'm just not buying what you're selling in this particular situation.

No, it doesn't set the ceiling, it gives you a certain probability.

A guy with a good combination of a 10-yd split, the vertical, and the broad jump demonstrates more explosiveness than one who doesn't.

Then you add those with the facts whether he can run good routes, which Hopkins does well (but not great).
Then you consider the fact that he had quite a few dropped balls, and you have to factor that into your consideration.
Some may think it a red flag when he took plays off against lesser opponents (I don't.)

In the process of evaluation, like I had mentioned before, there are other things you want to consider: the level of play of the QB (whether the running game or the line play hurt or helped), the level of competition, etc.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 12:14 AM
No, it doesn't set the ceiling, it gives you a certain probability.

A guy with a good combination of a 10-yd split, the vertical, and the broad jump demonstrates more explosiveness than one who doesn't.

Then you add those with the facts whether he can run good routes, which Hopkins does well (but not great).
Then you consider the fact that he had quite a few dropped balls, and you have to factor that into your consideration.
Some may think it a red flag when he took plays off against lesser opponents (I don't.)

In the process of evaluation, like I had mentioned before, there are other things you want to consider: the level of play of the QB (whether the running game or the line play hurt or helped), the level of competition, etc.

Again, I respect the time you put into your research but it makes me chuckle some. Anyway, I see where you stand on it and disagree with his elite "probability". Keep doing what you do though even if I disagree with you on occasion.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 12:15 AM
Well, a 1.55 10-yard split is really good and a 36 inch vertical is good as well. He also killed it in the gauntlet drill. And he measured in with very big hands and very long arms as I've said before. I just see a Roddy White clone when I watch him play, though, which is what matters most.

He had the over 4.5 forty time at the combine but he ran sub 4.5 at his pro day so take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9028253/deandre-hopkins-clemson-tigers-runs-40-yard-dash-441-seconds
From the same article:

"Not everything went perfectly for Hopkins during Thursday's workout. He dropped two passes during position drills, then promptly did 20 pushups for the pair of miscues."

This is one part of his game that is not great.
If you want to, but don't have game tapes, you can check out the game book from the ncaa football stats website (it's a pain in the neck.)
They recorded dropped balls (for some games, but not all - I think the NCAA may not have top-level statastics keepers at all games.)

76Texan
05-06-2013, 12:27 AM
Again, I respect the time you put into your research but it makes me chuckle some. Anyway, I see where you stand on it and disagree with his elite "probability". Keep doing what you do though even if I disagree with you on occasion.

Well, the Texans had bombed before when I disagreed.
They took Anthony Hill when I said I'd rather go with Brandon Myers.

Myers eventually became a starter for the Raiders; he recently signed a 4-yr deal worth $14.25 with the Giants.

Where is Anthony Hill?

I'm just saying that to show that I do spend time evaluating players (not all of them, only those of interest to me - which means most of the receivers in the last two draft classes and a few in the next class.)

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 12:49 AM
From the same article:

"Not everything went perfectly for Hopkins during Thursday's workout. He dropped two passes during position drills, then promptly did 20 pushups for the pair of miscues."

This is one part of his game that is not great.
If you want to, but don't have game tapes, you can check out the game book from the ncaa football stats website (it's a pain in the neck.)
They recorded dropped balls (for some games, but not all - I think the NCAA may not have top-level statastics keepers at all games.)

I still don't think drops will be a big problem for him. His hands are large and in charge. What did you think of Justin Hunter if you have the time? He is a guy I did not get to watch very much. I just saw the stats saying he had the most dropped passes in the 2012-2013 season and that he had acl surgery the year before last which seemed to make him hesitant over the middle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1nHtKg5AQ0

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 12:52 AM
Well, the Texans had bombed before when I disagreed.
They took Anthony Hill when I said I'd rather go with Brandon Myers.

Myers eventually became a starter for the Raiders; he recently signed a 4-yr deal worth $14.25 with the Giants.

Where is Anthony Hill?

I'm just saying that to show that I do spend time evaluating players (not all of them, only those of interest to me - which means most of the receivers in the last two draft classes and a few in the next class.)

I don't think you were the only one not impressed with the Anthony Hill pick. His injury problems alone made me skeptical of him. But I definitely give you credit for hitting on Myers. Didn't the Broncos draft TE Richard Quinn earlier in that draft and he was a somewhat similar player to Hill? He hasn't done anything in the league either.

leebigeztx
05-06-2013, 01:48 AM
Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.

you can go to nfldraftscout.com and look at every players combine and pro day #s. In fact, go look at the top 20 wrs in the nfl and check their shuttle #s. That's what I did months ago after watching wrs on tape. When I see guys like patterson and hopkins in the 4.5 range for the shuttle, that's an alarm for me. Like I said before, aquan boldin was a 4.7 40yd dash guy. If u watched Q in college , he got great seperation. People wonder how he gets open with a 4.7,but he's a 4.1 in the shuttle which is short area quickness. That's vital as a wr.

infantrycak
05-06-2013, 02:30 AM
So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?

I don't mind spending a first round pick on a #2 (which is duh, a starting position) and frankly your whole point on this is months late. WR for the Texans was a top consideration since draft talk began.

Oh and to state what should be ludicrously obvious - ANY WR BROUGHT IN WITH AJ WAS GOING TO BE THE #2 WR.

otisbean
05-06-2013, 04:48 AM
you can go to nfldraftscout.com and look at every players combine and pro day #s. In fact, go look at the top 20 wrs in the nfl and check their shuttle #s. That's what I did months ago after watching wrs on tape. When I see guys like patterson and hopkins in the 4.5 range for the shuttle, that's an alarm for me. Like I said before, aquan boldin was a 4.7 40yd dash guy. If u watched Q in college , he got great seperation. People wonder how he gets open with a 4.7,but he's a 4.1 in the shuttle which is short area quickness. That's vital as a wr.

BUT, Hopkins also ran a 6.83 3 cone which is a good time and also shows short area quickness. I love the 20yd short shuttle and use it with most of the athletes I train, there is some technique to it and it definitely favors shorter guys and those with a wider frame.

Jackie Chiles
05-06-2013, 09:39 AM
you can go to nfldraftscout.com and look at every players combine and pro day #s. In fact, go look at the top 20 wrs in the nfl and check their shuttle #s. That's what I did months ago after watching wrs on tape. When I see guys like patterson and hopkins in the 4.5 range for the shuttle, that's an alarm for me. Like I said before, aquan boldin was a 4.7 40yd dash guy. If u watched Q in college , he got great seperation. People wonder how he gets open with a 4.7,but he's a 4.1 in the shuttle which is short area quickness. That's vital as a wr.

I search the same site and came up with Hakeem Nicks as a guy with a poor shuttle time that has had a lot of success. Both have good hands and similar size, hopefully we get that kind of production. Overall though tough to find a lot of guys that have had success with that kind of shuttle time so I share your concern.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 10:40 AM
I don't mind spending a first round pick on a #2 (which is duh, a starting position) and frankly your whole point on this is months late. WR for the Texans was a top consideration since draft talk began.

Oh and to state what should be ludicrously obvious - ANY WR BROUGHT IN WITH AJ WAS GOING TO BE THE #2 WR.

True, but there are other options.

1. Take the trade with the Vikings to get their second, third, fourth, and seventh that Bilichick was able to swindle with a lower draft choice than ours.
Use those 4 picks plus the pick for Bonner to acquire 5 receivers (if you want to), a couple might be risky if selected alone. But with 5 picks, you can afford to take some risks with guys like Swope, Da'rick Rogers, Marcus Davis, Mark Harrison, Rodney Smith, etc.
Or you can use one or two of those picks to move back up.
Or you can use one or two of those picks to get players at other position.
Or you can trade them away for future picks that you can combine with your first next year to grab a better prospect.
(Like I had said before, there will be some very interesting prospects next year.)

2. Try to swindle a trade similar to the Pats in 2011, when they traded their #28 to the Saints for the #56 and the Saints first in 2012 (it ends up to be either the #21 or 25).
Use #56 on a solid guy, Aaron Dobson, for example (who's not as good as Hopkins, but you have the extra first in 2014 to combine with your first to move up.
Or you can trade down again to get two picks. With those two and the Bonner's pick, you can take a solid guy in the next tier and two flyers.
You still has the future first in 2013.
With the extra money that you don't have to pay for your first, combine it with the remaining cap to obtain a veteran like Brandon Floyd.

3. You can also try to trade Kmart away, or throw him into a trade.
He could be worth anywhere between a fourth to a sixth.
Or if you're Bilichick, you may even get third round value for him.
The reason I include Kmart is such that it gives you the flexibility to justify the selection of a guy like Stedman Bailey or Ryan Swope or Kenny Stills.

4. Trade down like in the first scenario, then trade away all those picks for future consideration (as many as possible). Let's say, trade away the second and third round picks. With the two remaining picks from that trade (the fourth and the seventh) along with the Bonner's pick, take a flyer on any 3 guys that you like (including Da'Rick Rogers).
Now that you don't have to spend money on a first rounder, you can combine it with whatever you got left in cap room to work out a deal with a Brandon Lloyd.
You now have a solid veteran that allows the team the time to develop the unfinished products that you took the risk on.
And you still have one or two future picks left.

HOU-TEX
05-06-2013, 10:48 AM
When does rookie camp start? Sure hope it can spring a topic or two to discuss around here

76Texan
05-06-2013, 10:51 AM
I still don't think drops will be a big problem for him. His hands are large and in charge. What did you think of Justin Hunter if you have the time? He is a guy I did not get to watch very much. I just saw the stats saying he had the most dropped passes in the 2012-2013 season and that he had acl surgery the year before last which seemed to make him hesitant over the middle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1nHtKg5AQ0

Hunter is a more explosive prospect than Hopkins, but he does have that injury (coupled with the fact that he has a skinny build that CNND had talked about that may increase the risk of a recurrence or a different injury).

He isn't as good a route runner as Hopkins currently, but the tests do show that he has the tools to do so.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 10:56 AM
The only guy I would have taken over Hopkins is Datone Jones and he went one spot before. I also liked Sylvester Williams, but Hopkins was higher on the list for me. And has it been confirmed that Minnesota offered us the same trade as they offered to NE? Rick Smith's brother is on twitter lol and he said the only trade down offer they had involved an added fifth rounder. If you want Hopkins badly, which the Texans did, you don't risk losing him just to add an extra fifth.

Whatever smoke screen they threw out there doesn't much matter.

The fact remains that Belichik was able to pull out that deal.
Unless Belichick had some dirt on the Vikings' GM, it would be sad if Rick Smith can't pull a similar deal if the Texans chooses to go that route.

TexansSeminole
05-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Bridgewater is miles ahead of Boyd for me. I have never been able to get on the Tahj Boyd wagon. Maybe it's because I watched a bunch of his games in 2011 and his accuracy was not impressive to me.

He does have some odd runs of inaccuracy, but they usually don't persist.

NCTexan
05-06-2013, 10:59 AM
Whatever smoke screen they threw out there doesn't much matter.

The fact remains that Belichik was able to pull out that deal.
Unless Belichick had some dirt on the Vikings' GM, it would be sad if Rick Smith can't pull a similar deal if the Texans chooses to go that route.

I feel like the Vikings reached out to the Patriots, not the other way around. Why do people seem to assume that they reached out to us as well?

76Texan
05-06-2013, 11:02 AM
I feel like the Vikings reached out to the Patriots, not the other way around. Why do people seem to assume that they reached out to us as well?

I assume that it's a GM's job to coordinate all the guys on his staff to work on all angles on draft day.

Rey
05-06-2013, 11:12 AM
I assume that it's a GM's job to coordinate all the guys on his staff to work on all angles on draft day.

Lets be real here. These are people doing these jobs. How do we even know the Viking had made up their mind about trading up when we were on the clock? There are 31 other teams out there constantly making and changing their minds.

There is no way to be in tune with what every franchise wants to do because all those other franchises may not know what they want to do at that time. You only have a set amount of time to make these moves.

But all that said, it's a moot point. Texans stated they wanted Hopkins and were concerned he might not even make it to them. They weren't in the trade down market once the guy they targeted had fallen to them.

Rey
05-06-2013, 11:14 AM
Hell, for all we know the Pats could have wanted Hopkins as well and only traded back once he wasn't there anymore. A lot of these WR's you guys wanted were still on board at the Pats pick too. They traded down and skipped over all those guys.

Hopkins could have been their guy.

I can come up with a bunch of draft day speculation.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 11:23 AM
It can't be a coincidence that the Patriots had come up with a lot of draft day trades, either down or up.

Perhaps they have a draft-trade response system similar to their plug-and-play offensive philosophy?

For example, they might have a methodical sequences where all the members of the staff can execute on draft day for each situation that may arise; ie. they have contigency plans for everything (from known events that they had encountered in the past)!?!

infantrycak
05-06-2013, 11:29 AM
True, but there are other options...

"blah, blah, blah - I have become a draftnick and love playing with my draft picks - blah, blah, blah."

If you get the player you want you take him not play monkey throwing darts at a board based on what may be a 12 year old posting rankings of draft prospects.

Your assertion teams shouldn't use a 1st round pick on a #2 WR remains silly.

Playoffs
05-06-2013, 11:32 AM
Hell, for all we know the Pats could have wanted Hopkins as well and only traded back once he wasn't there anymore. A lot of these WR's you guys wanted were still on board at the Pats pick too. They traded down and skipped over all those guys.

Hopkins could have been their guy.

I can come up with a bunch of draft day speculation.

Yep, or the Ravens ( Jacoby #2?) or whoever was going to trade up to the top of the 2nd to snatch a WR before the Bills.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 11:56 AM
"blah, blah, blah - I have become a draftnick and love playing with my draft picks - blah, blah, blah."

If you get the player you want you take him not play monkey throwing darts at a board based on what may be a 12 year old posting rankings of draft prospects.

Your assertion teams shouldn't use a 1st round pick on a #2 WR remains silly.

That's fine; I've already stated that it is my "preference" to find a real play-maker in my system (whether it's on the offensive side or defensive side).
Other people can have their own preference.

As far as draft-day trades goes, Belichik averages 3.71 trades per draft.
I share his philosophy.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9213915/nfl-draft-2013-new-england-patriots-trade-first-round-pick-minnesota-vikings

76Texan
05-06-2013, 12:02 PM
BTW, the Pats used those four picks on http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013-patriots-draft-picks
WR Aaron Dobson, WR Josh Boyd, CB LoganRyan, and Edge Rusher Michael Buchanan.

Fred
05-06-2013, 01:52 PM
BTW, the Pats used those four picks on http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013-patriots-draft-picks
WR Aaron Dobson, WR Josh Boyd, CB LoganRyan, and Edge Rusher Michael Buchanan.

Sounds like a mess of pottage; no, I do not want to trade Hopkins for those guys.

Your earlier post of draft 4 or 5 WRs and hope one pans out: we already have/had a pile of Posey, Martin, Jean, Maehl, Walter, J Jones, D Jones, Anderson, Holliday, Mathis. Instead of 5 more of those lets go for someone better. If Hopkins is not better than those guys then this pick was a failure (as many picks are). But trading the pick to get 4 more JAGs is definitely a failure.

As to your argument that only spread teams need as many as 2 good WRs, I would counter that all offenses except the wishbone need at least 2 good WRs.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Sounds like a mess of pottage; no, I do not want to trade Hopkins for those guys.

Your earlier post of draft 4 or 5 WRs and hope one pans out: we already have/had a pile of Posey, Martin, Jean, Maehl, Walter, J Jones, D Jones, Anderson, Holliday, Mathis. Instead of 5 more of those lets go for someone better. If Hopkins is not better than those guys then this pick was a failure (as many picks are). But trading the pick to get 4 more JAGs is definitely a failure.

As to your argument that only spread teams need as many as 2 good WRs, I would counter that all offenses except the wishbone need at least 2 good WRs.

I have you options:

If you don't like a bunch of players, trade them for future picks so that you can combine them to move put next year for a bigger difference maker.
Use the money that you would spend on your first rounder to sign a guy like Brandon Lloyd.

However, a bunch of guys don't have to be a mess.
Belichick is known to be able to pull a good player out of the piles.
Look at the WR draft history at Profootball reference .com for example; there are plenty of receivers who were drafted from the late second round through the seventh who turned out good to great.

You still have to do your homework.
A guy like Mike Wallace, for example, wasn't known to run good routes in college, but when you look up all the metrics (forty time, 10-yd split, 20-yd split, SS, 3-cone, vertical, and broad jump) they show a lethal combination that indicates an explosive receiver vertically, horizontally, and in the air.

Or you look at guys like Brandon Marshall, who also had good test numbers for his size, but wasn't a great route runner in college, and was from a small school.

Or a guy like Pierre Garçon, who had an excellent combination of those test scores, with the production to match, but also came from a small school.

Sometimes these sleepers came from an offense that was run-heavy, or that has a dual threat QB, or a poor QB, so the receiver didn't get enough chance to show case their talent.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 02:53 PM
76, I think you're completely missing the point Cak and some others are trying to make.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 02:56 PM
76, I think you're completely missing the point Cak and some others are trying to make.

I think I understand.
They got the guy they wanted.

It's just so happen that I think there are better options; that's all.
At this point in time, I'm just griping about the different options.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 03:02 PM
I think I understand.
They got the guy they wanted.

It's just so happen that I think there are better options; that's all.
At this point in time, I'm just griping about the different options.

Your different options are in fantasy land though. As stated, no one knows what offers were presented and if the Texans even had a slight interest in any of the guys you listed. The Texans got the guy they wanted. Period, point blank!

I understand you think he has limited potential, but there are much more savvy football guys in the FO who disagree with you and have done a hell of a job picking in the 1st round lately. I personally trust those guys. No offense.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Your different options are in fantasy land though. As stated, no one knows what offers were presented and if the Texans even had a slight interest in any of the guys you listed. The Texans got the guy they wanted. Period, point blank!

I understand you think he has limited potential, but there are much more savvy football guys in the FO who disagree with you and have done a hell of a job picking in the 1st round lately. I personally trust those guys. No offense.

Hey, I normally agree with their picks.
The times I disagreed slightly where a guy should be picked - like Mitchell or Sharpton, whom I graded half-to-a-round later, I think I'm ahead of them.
Or when I decided on Brandon Myers over Anthony Hill, it wasn't me who was wrong.

I can go on and on, from Dominique Baber whom I saw no potential, to Nolan who I thought was very inconsistent.

In Brandon Harris and Carmichael, I figured they wouldn't leap-frog any of our CB (KJax and McCain). They are fine, but you can always use at least one of those picks at another position. I thought Cheta was a wasted pick at the time we selected him.

On Shelley Smith, I thought they shouldn't have exposed him to the waiver.
On Okam, I said I'd rather haven him slim down rather than bulk up.

I think my evaluation of the players they drafted overall is closer to their assessment. :tiphat:

76Texan
05-06-2013, 03:41 PM
I would take a little less than what Belichik can pull off.
If that deal was there, the potential for a similar deal of slightly less value is not fantasy.

Aaron Dobson was taken by the Pats; it wasn't like he's crap that nobody wanted. You're just settling for a littler lesser receiver so you can either improve other positions and trade the remaining picks for future considerations to take a better receiver next year. Trades happened every year; it's no fantasy! :vincepalm:

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 03:43 PM
Hey, I normally agree with their picks.
The times I disagreed slightly where a guy should be picked - like Mitchell or Sharpton, whom I graded half-to-a-round later, I think I'm ahead of them.
Or when I decided on Brandon Myers over Anthony Hill, it wasn't me who was wrong.

I can go on and on, from Dominique Baber whom I saw no potential, to Nolan who I thought was very inconsistent.

In Brandon Harris and Carmichael, I figured they wouldn't leap-frog any of our CB (KJax and McCain). They are fine, but you can always use at least one of those picks at another position. I thought Cheta was a wasted pick at the time we selected him.

On Shelley Smith, I thought they shouldn't have exposed him to the waiver.
On Okam, I said I'd rather haven him slim down rather than bulk up.

I think my evaluation of the players they drafted overall is closer to their assessment. :tiphat:

I get it 76...... You're an expert analyst. Your talents are clearly going to waste then I guess. You should be getting paid 6 figures with how good you are at what you do when you KNOW when the Texans have wasted a pick. Rick Smith needs to have you on speed dial. You're funny though man.... Please continue.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 03:44 PM
I would take a little less than what Belichik can pull off.
If that deal was there, the potential for a similar deal of slightly less value is not fantasy.

Aaron Dobson was taken by the Pats; it wasn't like he's crap that nobody wanted. You're just settling for a littler lesser receiver so you can either improve other positions and trade the remaining picks for future considerations to take a better receiver next year. Trades happened every year; it's no fantasy! :vincepalm:

When you marry the girl you really want to marry you aren't worried about the other tramps on the market.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 03:53 PM
When you marry the girl you really want to marry you aren't worried about the other tramps on the market.

Very funny!

But for me, they are two totally different deals.

One is business, one is pleasure

76Texan
05-06-2013, 03:55 PM
What I do here is very normal.
Some fans don't like Matt Schaub or David Anderson, and they let it be known.

I like Hopkins, just not where he was drafted.
People think a certain guy is a reach or a bit of a stretch all the time.

Like Rey; he wasn't on board with the Mercilus pick and he still isn't.

He never talks about it a length, but he let it be known several times.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 04:03 PM
What I do here is very normal.
Some fans don't like Matt Schaub or David Anderson, and they let it be known.

I like Hopkins, just not where he was drafted.
People think a certain guy is a reach or a bit of a stretch all the time.

Like Rey; he wasn't on board with the Mercilus pick and he still isn't.

He never talks about it a length, but he let it be known several times.

The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 04:07 PM
The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.

I got that from the beginning.

I'm not dense, LOL!

At any rate, I didn't even mean to drag this out so long.
I'd rather spend my time evaluating the rest of the guys.

But forums are supposed to be a place where people exchange ideas; at least, that's my thinking.
Like politics, I don't care who's right and who's wrong, and I don't take anything personal.

So, let's rest it here, shall we?:tiphat:

steelbtexan
05-06-2013, 04:54 PM
The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.

What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 06:02 PM
This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRBCebCeyKY)?


Not a catch in the NFL.....


But sick, sick, sick a55 one handed catch.



sick

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 06:06 PM
You people be need to be proud of yourselves....

:thinking:


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120221021761/fatalbert/images/thumb/b/b2/Dumb_Donald_DD.jpg/250px-Dumb_Donald_DD.jpg

Heyba... whyba youba albaways talkaba like thatba? Bill?

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 06:12 PM
The argument "WRs who were passed by 26 other teams" is inherently self-defeating. Anyone at any position picked #27 was passed over 26 times. That will lead you to: "J.J. Watt can't be any good - 10 teams passed over him. Blaine Gabbert is clearly better than Watt - he was picked ahead of him." And I don't think you want to go there.

Whoa...... didn't say the guy wasn't any good, said there were questions. Just like there were questions about Victor Cruz, Miles Austin, Tony Romo, Arian Foster, etc..... There were less questions about Jj Watt.

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 06:36 PM
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?


I like Julio Jones, I wanted us to take him.

But... it's still too early. It's only year two & he's got a true #1 WR on the other side of him in Roddy White & a true go-to TE in Gonzales. Take those two away from him, put a couple of years of wear & tear on him... then we'll see.

I'm not saying that's the case for every one, that you've got to wait 4 years or whatever, but in his case, with the receivers & RBs on that team, it's hard to say.

Pierre Garcon.... I questioned what he would do without Reggie Wayne & the forehead. Look'n good so far. But it's hard to say when there's a lot of talent around the players.

Texn4life
05-06-2013, 06:36 PM
What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.

Dude, calm yourself. I sometimes say "we" when I refer to the Texans because I'm a fan. Big freaking deal. There's an easy way to ignore me if that's a problem. I honestly don't even know that I'm doing it when I do it.

Carr Bombed
05-06-2013, 06:50 PM
What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.

Yeah the NFL is a buisness... They're in the business of winning football games, so they can continue to sell tickets, and can get increased revenue that the playoffs bring and increased ticket prices/sales so I don't really understand your "He wants a certain type of player on his team" line. What "certain type of player" is that? Because from all I see, the only type of players Bob wants is players that'll help him win football games and the man does care what fans think about his team, it's why he spends so much money on his public relations.

You're also completely off your rocker if you think Goodell and the owners don't legitimately now care about safety. It goes back to the whole business thing. Ex Players offing themselves or killing other people in murder suicides is not a good public image and bad for business. The long term effects of concussions and other head injures sustained through years of playing football is threatening their entire existence. Trust me... They care. It's why they've sunk so much money into inserting programs (heads up) into youth football. If parents start to view football as a sport that will scramble their kid's brain.. parents will start pulling their kids out of the sport the same way they did boxing.. thus cutting off a pipeline for the NFL. The top athletes will be funneled into other sports like basketball or baseball and the NFL will become a sub par product.

But anyways, I'm just glad to learn that Hopkins is not a difference maker before he has even stepped out on the field, it's good to know now so I don't get my hopes up. I mean he only had 82 rec, 1,405 (twice as many as the next WR on his team), and 18 TDs (15 more than the next WR on his team) Yep, he sucks and has no shot at making a difference here. What's even more depressing is that it's not just him.. "most of this yrs draft picks" don't have a shot at becoming difference makers. :( What a complete waste this year's draft was.

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 06:55 PM
Oh and to state what should be ludicrously obvious - ANY WR BROUGHT IN WITH AJ WAS GOING TO BE THE #2 WR.

True.

It would be a problem if we didn't have Andre & Hopkins turned out to be bleh..... but we continue to build the defense, because Hopkins is "good enough"

Similar to we never would have got a true #1 CB had we not parted ways with Dunta. Dunta was "good enough"

TexansSeminole
05-06-2013, 07:02 PM
It's funny how so many people cite statistics from last year when comparing Hopkins and Watkins. Y'all clearly did not watch, or follow Clemson for the past two seasons. Two or three people have already tried to compare the two player's statistics in 2012, while ignoring Watkins' injury and his play in 2011, as if that is the whole story.

Lesson learned, most people just look at statistics and repeat what they read from others. Any mild football fan that has watched Clemson play in the past two years can see that Watkins is more talented and a better prospect than Hopkins. It's clear as day.

I love Hopkins, but this deal where people compare the two based on 2012 statistics alone is a joke and shows how little they actually know about the situation.

Watkins got suspended for the first two games, he then injured his ankle in his third game back I believe it was. Not to mention, he wasn't even needed for his first game back. Dude barely even saw the field in the second half of that game. The injury continued to bother him until the bowl game against LSU in which he suffered a leg injury very early on. So, he essentially played in only 8.5 games, injured, and still had over 700 yards.

/rant

Sorry, had to get that out there.

Fred
05-06-2013, 07:03 PM
What's with all of this we crap?

The Texans are BoB's team. He wants a certain type of player on his team and really could care less what the avg fan thinks, as long as those corporate $$$$ keep rolling in.

The NFL is strioctly a big business monopoly that puts what's good for the owners bank accounts 1st and foremost. If you dont see that look at the rules changes God'ell is forcing down the fans throats at the behest of the owners. God'ell could give 2 craps about saftey. But he does care about how much $$$$ the owners are going to have to pay out in the concussion lawsuits. Even if the rule changes will ruin the game that we all love.

End of rant

BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker.

End of rant??? I doubt it. You hate the NFL, you hate the Texans, you hate McNair (WTF with the BoB anyway?), you hate Rick Smith, you hate Kubiak, you hate Schaub, you hate any Texans player who isn't a felon (because BoB likes non-felons). I have some suggestions for you: Titans, Cowboys, Bengals. More the type owner/player you like.

Whoa...... didn't say the guy wasn't any good, said there were questions. Just like there were questions about Victor Cruz, Miles Austin, Tony Romo, Arian Foster, etc..... There were less questions about Jj Watt.

I agree there are questions. I was just saying the "passed over by x teams" when you are picking at "x+1" is trite silly worn-out and self-defeating.


But anyways, I'm glad to learn that Hopkins is not a difference maker before he has even stepped out on the field. I mean he only had 82 rec, 1,405 (twice as many as the next WR on his team), and 18 TDs (15 more than the next WR on his team) Yep, he sucks and has no shot at making a difference here. What's even more depressing is that it's not just him.. "most of this yrs draft picks" don't have a shot at becoming difference makers. :( What a complete waste this year's draft was.

You do realize that all 82 catches were bubble screens and busted plays? That not a single one was a true "college level" reception?
(Does make me wonder how bad the receivers rated below Hopkins are...)

Carr Bombed
05-06-2013, 07:09 PM
It's funny how so many people cite statistics from last year when comparing Hopkins and Watkins. Y'all clearly did not watch, or follow, Clemson for the past two seasons. Two or three people have already tried to compare the two player's statistics in 2012, while ignoring Watkins' injury and his play in 2011, as if that is the whole story.

Lesson learned, most people just look at statistics and repeat what they read from others. Any mild football fan that has watched Clemson play in the past two years can see that Watkins is more talented and a better prospect than Hopkins. It's clear as day.

I love Hopkins, but this deal where people compare the two based on 2012 statistics alone is a joke and shows how little they actually know about the situation.

/rant

Sorry, had to get that out there.

Watkins very well could go on to have a better career, but he was not the #1 option last season. Hopkins is older and probably matured his last season at Clemson.. reason why he had the better season. But PRODUCTION is a big piece to the pie and Hopkins was more productive than Watkins in every damn receiving area (catches, yards, yards per catch, and TDs... and no category was even remotely close) Now Watkins could have a higher ceiling and since he's now stepping into that role we'll now see how his season matches up to the one Hopkins had. Having said that, to try to throw what Hopkins accomplished to the side and act like he wasn't the top target on his team last season is just false.. completely false.

thunderkyss
05-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Lets be real here. These are people doing these jobs. How do we even know the Viking had made up their mind about trading up when we were on the clock? There are 31 other teams out there constantly making and changing their minds.


After looking at what the Vikings did, I doubt they were interested in our pick.

Surely they knew Austin was out of their reach so they wanted to make sure they got Hopkins or Patterson. After we took Hopkins, they probably tried to get 28 from the Broncos before anyone else could. I think they pushed pretty hard & the Broncos didn't take.

That's the only way I can explain why they gave up so much for 29, because they pushed so hard for 28, didn't get it, so they threw the same offer to the Patriots to make sure no one else had a chance.

TexansSeminole
05-06-2013, 07:19 PM
Watkins very well could go on to have a better career, but he was not the #1 option last season. Hopkins is older and probably matured his last season at Clemson.. reason why he had the better season. But PRODUCTION is a big piece to the pie and Hopkins was more productive than Watkins in every damn receiving area (catches, yards, yards per catch, and TDs... and no category was even remotely close) Now Watkins could have a higher ceiling and since he's now stepping into that role we'll now see how his season matches up to the one Hopkins had. Having said that, to try to throw what Hopkins accomplished to the side and act like he wasn't the top target on his team last season is just false.. completely false.

Oh, I am not at all taking anything away from Hopkins. I'm just giving some back to Watkins here. Hopkins was my guy (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2102434&postcount=8) for us just as the season ended, so your talking to a Hopkins fan here. I just think it's unfair to leave out so much about the situation and act like Hopkins surpassed Watkins based on pure level of play.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 08:23 PM
There have been only three freshmen in the history of NCAA football that made the AP All America First Team.

Sammy Watkins was one of them.
That should be enough telling.

(Herschel Walker and Adrian Peterson were the other two.)

infantrycak
05-06-2013, 09:10 PM
4th - Marshall Faulk.

Oddly Watkins got his 1st team All American with a season which did not match Hopkins 3rd team All American season.

Fred
05-06-2013, 10:04 PM
After looking at what the Vikings did, I doubt they were interested in our pick.

Surely they knew Austin was out of their reach so they wanted to make sure they got Hopkins or Patterson. After we took Hopkins, they probably tried to get 28 from the Broncos before anyone else could. I think they pushed pretty hard & the Broncos didn't take.

That's the only way I can explain why they gave up so much for 29, because they pushed so hard for 28, didn't get it, so they threw the same offer to the Patriots to make sure no one else had a chance.

Exactly. They were probably sitting waiting until the first one went, then they would try to move up for the other one. Or maybe not, we don't know, which is kind of the point.

It's funny how so many people cite statistics from last year when comparing Hopkins and Watkins. Y'all clearly did not watch, or follow Clemson for the past two seasons. Two or three people have already tried to compare the two player's statistics in 2012, while ignoring Watkins' injury and his play in 2011, as if that is the whole story.

Lesson learned, most people just look at statistics and repeat what they read from others. Any mild football fan that has watched Clemson play in the past two years can see that Watkins is more talented and a better prospect than Hopkins. It's clear as day.

I love Hopkins, but this deal where people compare the two based on 2012 statistics alone is a joke and shows how little they actually know about the situation.

Watkins got suspended for the first two games, he then injured his ankle in his third game back I believe it was. Not to mention, he wasn't even needed for his first game back. Dude barely even saw the field in the second half of that game. The injury continued to bother him until the bowl game against LSU in which he suffered a leg injury very early on. So, he essentially played in only 8.5 games, injured, and still had over 700 yards.

/rant

Sorry, had to get that out there.

Err, OK. Watkins sounds great (if you want someone who is usually suspended or injured j/k sorta) but since he was not available in this draft I don't understand what he has to do with anything, unless the plan is the Texans should suspend operations for a year until he is available. Hopkins was the guy they thought was best at 27 this year. Interesting but not relevant that he is the 1st / 2nd / 12th best on his college team.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 10:24 PM
4th - Marshall Faulk.

Oddly Watkins got his 1st team All American with a season which did not match Hopkins 3rd team All American season.

I believe I had mentioned before that Watkins is used in multiple way like Patterson at Tennessee.

He returns punts and kicks.
He is used out of the backfield (as a RB) and on WR reverses.

The guy has a mitt for hands at 10-3/4
When he's healthy, he's the most dynamic player on the team.
He's dangerous every time he touches the ball.
If you don't have his Freshman game tapes, just read up on some scouting reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TQCRtp6Peo

Listen to the comment at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdo9bKZ7q4o

76Texan
05-06-2013, 10:37 PM
Exactly. They were probably sitting waiting until the first one went, then they would try to move up for the other one. Or maybe not, we don't know, which is kind of the point.



Err, OK. Watkins sounds great (if you want someone who is usually suspended or injured j/k sorta) but since he was not available in this draft I don't understand what he has to do with anything, unless the plan is the Texans should suspend operations for a year until he is available. Hopkins was the guy they thought was best at 27 this year. Interesting but not relevant that he is the 1st / 2nd / 12th best on his college team.

This is why I wanted for the Texans to trade for future draft picks so that they can move up next year to get one of the 3 guys: Watkins, Marquise Lee (USC) or Brandon Coleman (Rutgers - this guy is 6'5 and built like Megatron)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhPTLZ3Tdc

All three will be Juniors just like Hopkins.

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 11:10 PM
This is why I wanted for the Texans to trade for future draft picks so that they can move up next year to get one of the 3 guys: Watkins, Marquise Lee (USC) or Brandon Coleman (Rutgers - this guy is 6'5 and built like Megatron)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhPTLZ3Tdc

All three will be Juniors just like Hopkins.

I understand your thinking and I agree with it to an extent, but I doubt the Texans were going to trade their first for future picks unless they were blown away by a deal. They certainly take the long-term status of the club into account, but they are also in win now mode as well. And I doubt many teams were breaking down the Texans' door with future firsts in order to get the 27th pick in a draft where there was great depth but not as many gamechangers as usual. The weak qb class didn't help.

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 11:14 PM
The majority of people thought Duane Brown was a reach. The Texans got the guy they wanted then and got the guy they wanted now. Where they got him shouldn't matter if they believed it was a chance he wouldn't be there later. I don't mind you not agreeing with the pick. I actually wanted Robert Woods instead of Hopkins, but that's not who we have and Hopkins clearly was the guy we wanted in the 1st. Makes no difference to me then where they got him if that's the case.

Robert Woods was supposedly the Texans' second target at WR if they didn't get Hopkins. I like what Buffalo did to surround Manuel with talent. Now they have Stevie Johnson, Robert Woods, TJ Graham, Marquise Goodwin, Brad Smith, CJ Spiller, and Fred Jackson.

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 11:17 PM
"BTW, I wanted Short over Hopkins. Like most of this yrs draft picks Hopkins is a very good player (He wasn't even the best WR on his college team) but not a true differencemaker."


Why did you like Short over Sylvester Williams, steelb? Did you like Datone? And that's kind of a backhanded compliment of Hopkins. That's like saying Roddy White is very good but he's not even the best wr on his team. Who cares? He's still a very good wr. The same could be said about Robert Woods and Marquise Lee, but that doesn't make Woods any less of a prospect either.

76Texan
05-06-2013, 11:37 PM
I understand your thinking and I agree with it to an extent, but I doubt the Texans were going to trade their first for future picks unless they were blown away by a deal. They certainly take the long-term status of the club into account, but they are also in win now mode as well. And I doubt many teams were breaking down the Texans' door with future firsts in order to get the 27th pick in a draft where there was great depth but not as many gamechangers as usual. The weak qb class didn't help.

I don't know how they did it, but I was checking around for fun starting with 1999 in the draft history section from a couple of sites, and saw that there were four teams with at least two first round picks.

Then in 2000, there were three teams, including the Jets with three picks.

greekdbag
05-06-2013, 11:51 PM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/4/26/4271248/the-film-room-breaking-down-deandre-hopkins

The Film Room: Breaking Down DeAndre Hopkins

TexansSeminole
05-07-2013, 12:10 AM
Err, OK. Watkins sounds great (if you want someone who is usually suspended or injured j/k sorta) but since he was not available in this draft I don't understand what he has to do with anything, unless the plan is the Texans should suspend operations for a year until he is available. Hopkins was the guy they thought was best at 27 this year. Interesting but not relevant that he is the 1st / 2nd / 12th best on his college team.

Several people used Watkins' drop off in production in 2012, without properly explaining the situation, as a way of countering steelb's argument that Hopkins wasn't the best WR on his team. I was clearing up what the situation at Clemson was this year, because it was being misrepresented.

What don't you understand?

Fred
05-07-2013, 06:08 AM
Several people used Watkins' drop off in production in 2012, without properly explaining the situation, as a way of countering steelb's argument that Hopkins wasn't the best WR on his team. I was clearing up what the situation at Clemson was this year, because it was being misrepresented.

What don't you understand?


Err, OK. Watkins sounds great (if you want someone who is usually suspended or injured j/k sorta) but since he was not available in this draft I don't understand what he has to do with anything, unless the plan is the Texans should suspend operations for a year until he is available. Hopkins was the guy they thought was best at 27 this year. Interesting but not relevant that he is the 1st / 2nd / 12th best on his college team.

I don't understand why the quality of a player not in this year's draft makes a difference in where / if players in this draft should be picked. I don't think picking Hopkins is a mistake because someone not in the draft is better. Unless, again, the Texans should suspend football operations until Watkins is available which seems to be where 76 is going:

This is why I wanted for the Texans to trade for future draft picks so that they can move up next year to get one of the 3 guys: Watkins, Marquise Lee (USC) or Brandon Coleman (Rutgers - this guy is 6'5 and built like Megatron)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhPTLZ3Tdc

All three will be Juniors just like Hopkins.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 07:13 AM
I don't know how they did it, but I was checking around for fun starting with 1999 in the draft history section from a couple of sites, and saw that there were four teams with at least two first round picks.

Then in 2000, there were three teams, including the Jets with three picks.

In 2001, there were two teams, with the Rams having 3 picks.

In 2002, there were two teams.

In 2003, there were four teams.

In 2004, there were five teams, including the Texans.

In 2005, there were four teams.

In 2006, there were three teams.

In 2007, there were two.

In 2008, there were an astounding number of five teams.

In 2009, there were four.

In 2010, there were another four.

In 2011, there were the Saints.

In 2012, there were four.

And in 2013, there were three, with the Vikings amassing 3 picks.

There were several with multiple first round picks in consecutive seasons, too.

Playoffs
05-07-2013, 07:25 AM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/4/26/4271248/the-film-room-breaking-down-deandre-hopkins

The Film Room: Breaking Down DeAndre Hopkins

Deliciously smart.

greekdbag
05-07-2013, 08:17 AM
In 2001, there were two teams, with the Rams having 3 picks.

In 2002, there were two teams.

In 2003, there were four teams.

In 2004, there were five teams, including the Texans.

In 2005, there were four teams.

In 2006, there were three teams.

In 2007, there were two.

In 2008, there were an astounding number of five teams.

In 2009, there were four.

In 2010, there were another four.

In 2011, there were the Saints.

In 2012, there were four.

And in 2013, there were three, with the Vikings amassing 3 picks.

There were several with multiple first round picks in consecutive seasons, too.

Some of these teams traded up to get another first rounder (like the Saints in 2011 and the Vikings in 2013) and some of these teams traded guys for the picks (Minnesota traded Harvin for Seattle's first rounder in 2013). I'm not sure how many traded prior year's first round picks for future firsts.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 08:29 AM
Some of these teams traded up to get another first rounder (like the Saints in 2011 and the Vikings in 2013) and some of these teams traded guys for the picks (Minnesota traded Harvin for Seattle's first rounder in 2012). I'm not sure how many traded prior year's first round picks for future firsts.

I don't know either, but I know it has been done.
Or just accumulate two or three future picks (2nd and 3rd).
We should have some comp picks next year, may be as high as the third.
We've seen the Vikings use their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th to get a low first.
We can do something similar, adding our own first, to move up higher.

Or we can always trade Schaub for five first rounders, can't we? :cow:

thunderkyss
05-07-2013, 11:40 AM
I would take a little less than what Belichik can pull off.
If that deal was there, the potential for a similar deal of slightly less value is not fantasy.


Who knows?

I think the Vikings were going to wait until Hopkins or Patterson was off the board. Once one of them was selected, then they were going to try to swoop in & get the other. Had we drafted another position, for instance, Minnesota wouldn't have been looking to trade with New England. Had New England selected Hopkins or Patterson, then Minnesota would have tried to get in to get the other.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 11:49 AM
Who knows?

I think the Vikings were going to wait until Hopkins or Patterson was off the board. Once one of them was selected, then they were going to try to swoop in & get the other. Had we drafted another position, for instance, Minnesota wouldn't have been looking to trade with New England. Had New England selected Hopkins or Patterson, then Minnesota would have tried to get in to get the other.

Your post is a little confusing about the Vikings' intention.

It's beside the point though; all I was saying is that a trade was a possibility.
Whether they had time to consummate the trade or whether the timing wasn't right are different issues.

There was a team willing to trade up; it's a fact.

thunderkyss
05-07-2013, 01:48 PM
Your post is a little confusing about the Vikings' intention.

It's beside the point though; all I was saying is that a trade was a possibility.
Whether they had time to consummate the trade or whether the timing wasn't right are different issues.

There was a team willing to trade up; it's a fact.

No, we have no idea. Had we not selected a WR, the Vikings may not have made the trade with the Patriots.

If the Patriots took one of the two, then the Vikings would be looking to get the other.

Had the Patriots not took one of the two (Hopkins, Patterson) the Vikings would have still been waiting.

The idea is that they wanted one of those two WRs, as long as they were both on the board, they were going to watch & let them fall. As soon as one came off, they were going to get the other.

Had the team ahead of us took Patterson, then I'm sure the Vikings would have been calling us for Hopkins. Or if Hopkins were off the board, the Vikings would have traded with us to get Patterson & we would have gladly taken a shoot at Woods later in the draft.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 01:58 PM
No, we have no idea. Had we not selected a WR, the Vikings may not have made the trade with the Patriots.

If the Patriots took one of the two, then the Vikings would be looking to get the other.

Had the Patriots not took one of the two (Hopkins, Patterson) the Vikings would have still been waiting.

The idea is that they wanted one of those two WRs, as long as they were both on the board, they were going to watch & let them fall. As soon as one came off, they were going to get the other.

Had the team ahead of us took Patterson, then I'm sure the Vikings would have been calling us for Hopkins. Or if Hopkins were off the board, the Vikings would have traded with us to get Patterson & we would have gladly taken a shoot at Woods later in the draft.

What's with the thinking "we have identified our guy"?

Now it's "either/or".

Even with "either/or", wouldn't it be better for them to offer us the same deal so they can have their choice?

76Texan
05-07-2013, 02:00 PM
Or should they sit there and pray that we don't take a receiver?

All the while, it's been clear that receiver is our biggest need.

thunderkyss
05-07-2013, 02:24 PM
Or should they sit there and pray that we don't take a receiver?

All the while, it's been clear that receiver is our biggest need.

Why would that be so hard to believe?

You're suggesting that we pass on the bird in the hand & drop out of the first round all together. There were several teams that many thought would have taken a WR before us. Just from the little bit I saw & read, I was shocked Patterson was still there.

& like I said, if Patterson would have gone at 24, the Vikings would have used 25 to pick Hopkins & tried to trade back into the first for Xavier Rhodes later.

The Pencil Neck
05-07-2013, 03:08 PM
Listen.

The one thing that has to be painfully obvious is that every team has their own list of players. And they have those players graded for where they think they should go AND where they think they might go.

You look at this class of receivers and don't see a 1st round talent (and you define a 1st round as a receiver that will develop into a #1.) And that's fine. That's your opinion.

But it's not an opinion shared by the Texans, Rams, and Vikings.

According to your board and your analysis, we would have been better trading back, getting more picks, and then looking for a #1 receiver to replace AJ next season.

What I think you're doing, though, is you're slipping into a Mel Kiper mind-set. You're married to your board, your analysis, and your draft strategy to the point that you're not seeing that other approaches and other analyses and other boards are just as valid. You've spent a lot of time and energy looking at game film on these guys and you think they made a mistake.

That's what draft grades are for. Offering your opinion on how good or bad the team did based on what YOU perceive as the value of the picks and the holes in the team.

But. Ultimately. Just an opinion.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 03:46 PM
Listen.

The one thing that has to be painfully obvious is that every team has their own list of players. And they have those players graded for where they think they should go AND where they think they might go.

You look at this class of receivers and don't see a 1st round talent (and you define a 1st round as a receiver that will develop into a #1.) And that's fine. That's your opinion.

But it's not an opinion shared by the Texans, Rams, and Vikings.

According to your board and your analysis, we would have been better trading back, getting more picks, and then looking for a #1 receiver to replace AJ next season.

What I think you're doing, though, is you're slipping into a Mel Kiper mind-set. You're married to your board, your analysis, and your draft strategy to the point that you're not seeing that other approaches and other analyses and other boards are just as valid. You've spent a lot of time and energy looking at game film on these guys and you think they made a mistake.

That's what draft grades are for. Offering your opinion on how good or bad the team did based on what YOU perceive as the value of the picks and the holes in the team.

But. Ultimately. Just an opinion.
I've already agreed to it all.
Actually, I've already agreed with it all even before I started posting in this thread.

76Texan
05-07-2013, 03:54 PM
Why would that be so hard to believe?

You're suggesting that we pass on the bird in the hand & drop out of the first round all together. There were several teams that many thought would have taken a WR before us. Just from the little bit I saw & read, I was shocked Patterson was still there.

& like I said, if Patterson would have gone at 24, the Vikings would have used 25 to pick Hopkins & tried to trade back into the first for Xavier Rhodes later.

What it looks like is that the Vikings had Shariff Flloyd and Xavier Rhodes way ahead of any receiver left on board at the time they took their first pick.
That was why they took those two, right?

Then they traded up to grab a receiver (Patterson), that's a fact right?

Who do you think they have higher on their board?
Hopkins or Patterson?

Let's say they have Patterson (and Hopkins might be the third, the fourth or fifth receiver on their board, whatever.)

Aren't they concerned that the Texans may take Patterson?

thunderkyss
05-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Aren't they concerned that the Texans may take Patterson?

I believe if the Vikings were concerned the Texans would take Patterson, they would have tried to trade ahead of the Texans & the Texans were most likely never looked at as a trade partner, which brings us back to the beginning....

Just because they traded for the 29th pick does not mean they were interested in the 27th pick.

Playoffs
05-07-2013, 05:48 PM
Who do you think they have higher on their board?
Hopkins or Patterson?

I think they wanted one or the other.

Fred
05-07-2013, 06:25 PM
What I think you're doing, though, is you're slipping into a Mel Kiper mind-set.

Hey!!! Whoa!!! Easy with insults! Let's keep it civil! I've seen some serious name calling on the internet, but never anything that harsh!

TexansSeminole
05-07-2013, 07:32 PM
I don't understand why the quality of a player not in this year's draft makes a difference in where / if players in this draft should be picked. I don't think picking Hopkins is a mistake because someone not in the draft is better. Unless, again, the Texans should suspend football operations until Watkins is available which seems to be where 76 is going:

It doesn't matter at all for Hopkins, your right. I was just defending Watkins. Both are great players.

The Pencil Neck
05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Hey!!! Whoa!!! Easy with insults! Let's keep it civil! I've seen some serious name calling on the internet, but never anything that harsh!

I said "slipping", not "slipped". :)

Kiper sometimes gets seriously pissed off when people don't draft the way he expected them to and when certain guys fall.

OTOH, I haven't watched him on draft day in a couple of years so maybe he's gotten better.

ArlingtonTexan
05-07-2013, 10:30 PM
It doesn't matter at all for Hopkins, your right. I was just defending Watkins. Both are great players.

Conversely, when some of us were stating that Hopkins outperformed Watkins there was not hating of Watkins going on....just realization that a more "talented" Wr did not perform to his established standard and less a physically gifted WR made the most of his football skill in a particular season.

and yes whether or not Watkins is better than Hopkins really does not hae anything to do with Hopkins being a useful if not more Houston Texan.

TexansSeminole
05-07-2013, 10:52 PM
Conversely, when some of us were stating that Hopkins outperformed Watkins there was not hating of Watkins going on....just realization that a more "talented" Wr did not perform to his established standard and less a physically gifted WR made the most of his football skill in a particular season

and yes whether or not Watkins is better than Hopkins really does not hae anything to do with Hopkins being a useful if not more Houston Texan.

100% agree, but I do feel there is more that contributed than was originally stated.

leebigeztx
05-08-2013, 02:03 AM
I just think with the depth at wr in this draft, I feel like the texans should've really been trying to trade out and attack the 2,3,4 rds of the draft. Patton,Dobson,williams,hunter,and wheaton have equal talent to hopkins. All those guys, except hunter was availiable owith the texans 2nd rd pick. I think they could've come out of the draft with a more explosive wr than hopkins later.

Maddict5
05-08-2013, 11:06 AM
fwiw i read peter kings article about the rams draft, the Texans are mentioned a few times...

apparently we offered to trade up to #22 with the rams for a 4th & 6th rder...but they accepted the falcons trade instead to trade down to #30 (for a 3rd and 7th)

later, the rams offered a 6th to move from #30 (after they had traded down from #22) to #27 which the Texans (obviously) rejected. rick wanted a 4th rder to do that trade

76Texan
05-08-2013, 12:22 PM
I said "slipping", not "slipped". :)

Kiper sometimes gets seriously pissed off when people don't draft the way he expected them to and when certain guys fall.

OTOH, I haven't watched him on draft day in a couple of years so maybe he's gotten better.

Sometimes things are not what they seem to be.
A guy with ten posts is not neccessarily pissed off.
Conversely, a guy with a single post might be pissed off more than he let on. :choke:

76Texan
05-08-2013, 12:29 PM
I believe if the Vikings were concerned the Texans would take Patterson, they would have tried to trade ahead of the Texans & the Texans were most likely never looked at as a trade partner, which brings us back to the beginning....

Just because they traded for the 29th pick does not mean they were interested in the 27th pick.

I think they wanted one or the other.

In respond to TK; it doesn't matter whether the Vikings were concerned about what the Texans may do, the fact remains they traded up to draft Patterson.

Does it matter to them if the trading partner is named Texans or Patriots?

The possibility of a trade is there; whether the Texans wanted to or not is a different matter.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 12:33 PM
fwiw i read peter kings article about the rams draft, the Texans are mentioned a few times...

apparently we offered to trade up to #22 with the rams for a 4th & 6th rder...but they accepted the falcons trade instead to trade down to #30 (for a 3rd and 7th)

later, the rams offered a 6th to move from #30 (after they had traded down from #22) to #27 which the Texans (obviously) rejected. rick wanted a 4th rder to do that trade

If this is true than the Texans were open to trade down.
That would shoot down the saying about how "you take the guy you identified".

Playoffs
05-08-2013, 12:47 PM
BTW, Mike Mayock, who may be the most reputable draft analyst out there, did not have Hopkins in the first round. Both CBS Sports and NFL Draft Scout also had him solidly in the second.
Mayock may be the most reputable t.v. draft analyst.

An actual scout like Dan Shonka --Eagles, Redskins, Chiefs -- had DeAndre as the second WR off the board at pick 23. No other WRs in the first round, either.

ASidd_1990
05-08-2013, 12:56 PM
Mayock may be the most reputable t.v. draft analyst.

An actual scout like Dan Shonka --Eagles, Redskins, Chiefs -- had DeAndre as the second WR off the board at pick 23. No other WRs in the first round, either.

I read somewhere that Hopkins was the 2nd best WR behind Tavon Austin.

The Pencil Neck
05-08-2013, 12:59 PM
Sometimes things are not what they seem to be.
A guy with ten posts is not neccessarily pissed off.
Conversely, a guy with a single post might be pissed off more than he let on. :choke:

Like I said, "slipping" not "slipped". :)

Kiper gets pissed off. I didn't say you had.

You're just going to unnecessary lengths to convince people you're right. That doesn't mean you're pissed off about it.

infantrycak
05-08-2013, 01:03 PM
If this is true than the Texans were open to trade down.
That would shoot down the saying about how "you take the guy you identified".

It doesn't shoot down anything. Only a fool would not pick up the phone and listen for a Ricky Williams offer. In the end they rejected what was offered and took their guy.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 01:05 PM
Mayock may be the most reputable t.v. draft analyst.

An actual scout like Dan Shonka --Eagles, Redskins, Chiefs -- had DeAndre as the second WR off the board at pick 23. No other WRs in the first round, either.

There are a lot of ex-scouts out there, and there's no concensus, except that this class is no filled with top end talent, but there's a lot of depth.

When I started the wide receiver threat in the mock draft forum last July, I've already said that much. I also said that the 2013 class should rival the 2012 class in both quantity and quality.
As we went on, I even stated that if the underclassmen that are "expected" to come out early, this class should be even deeper than 2012.

I was correct in that regard as 28 players were drafted as compared to 22 last year.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 01:05 PM
It doesn't shoot down anything. Only a fool would not pick up the phone and listen for a Ricky Williams offer. In the end they rejected what was offered and took their guy.

Thank you.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 01:08 PM
Like I said, "slipping" not "slipped". :)

Kiper gets pissed off. I didn't say you had.

You're just going to unnecessary lengths to convince people you're right. That doesn't mean you're pissed off about it.

I merely responded to the "inquiries" and "comments".

The screen shots, for example, were in respond to Boyd/Hopkins; helping or hurting each other's cause.

Somebody said Boyd hurts Hopkins; I disagree!

thunderkyss
05-08-2013, 08:47 PM
I just think with the depth at wr in this draft, I feel like the texans should've really been trying to trade out and attack the 2,3,4 rds of the draft. Patton,Dobson,williams,hunter,and wheaton have equal talent to hopkins. All those guys, except hunter was availiable owith the texans 2nd rd pick. I think they could've come out of the draft with a more explosive wr than hopkins later.

They sat on the clock for quite some time..... how do we know they didn't? Surely you don't want them to give away our first round pick do you?

thunderkyss
05-08-2013, 08:55 PM
Does it matter to them if the trading partner is named Texans or Patriots?


No. You said if they feared the Texans would take Patterson.

If the Vikings think the Texans want Patterson, they won't ask the Texans to trade. They'll ask the team ahead of the Texans who isn't interested in a WR.

That they traded with the Patriots @ 29 does not suggest they were willing to trade up to 27 to get Patterson. More than anything, trading up after the Texans selected Hopkins suggests they wanted one of the two.

I don't know that they graded Patterson higher than Hopkins, or Hopkins higher than Patterson, only that they thought they were so close they were willing to wait until one of the two was gone.

thunderkyss
05-08-2013, 09:01 PM
There are a lot of ex-scouts out there, and there's no concensus, except that this class is no filled with top end talent, but there's a lot of depth.

When I started the wide receiver threat in the mock draft forum last July, I've already said that much. I also said that the 2013 class should rival the 2012 class in both quantity and quality.
As we went on, I even stated that if the underclassmen that are "expected" to come out early, this class should be even deeper than 2012.

I was correct in that regard as 28 players were drafted as compared to 22 last year.

You know you can rupture a disc patting yourself on a back that hard.

Rey
05-08-2013, 09:23 PM
It didn't hit me how inexperienced our wr corps is until on the radio they mentioned that only one wr has more than 10 career catches.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 09:31 PM
No. You said if they feared the Texans would take Patterson.

If the Vikings think the Texans want Patterson, they won't ask the Texans to trade. They'll ask the team ahead of the Texans who isn't interested in a WR.

That they traded with the Patriots @ 29 does not suggest they were willing to trade up to 27 to get Patterson. More than anything, trading up after the Texans selected Hopkins suggests they wanted one of the two.

I don't know that they graded Patterson higher than Hopkins, or Hopkins higher than Patterson, only that they thought they were so close they were willing to wait until one of the two was gone.

You're always good at going circular. :)

The facts still remain the same no matter how many speculations are out there.

I'd like to have a staff of closers like what the Patriots have.
They certainly were able to close a lot of deals on draft day.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 09:36 PM
It didn't hit me how inexperienced our wr corps is until on the radio they mentioned that only one wr has more than 10 career catches.

I'm afraid that it might come back and bite the Texans in the rear similar to 2010 when they lacked solid veteran presence in the secondary.

I'm crossing my fingers that AJ can stay healthy the whole year.

I hope that Posier's condition improves as much as possible.
It would make me feel better if what Posey texted in February is true, that he doesn't think he will miss any game.
I'd settle for him to be able to come back mid-season in game shape.
But I was warned by the Doc that Posey may never be the same again.

The Texans really need to find a veteran soon.

76Texan
05-08-2013, 09:38 PM
You know you can rupture a disc patting yourself on a back that hard.

There's no room for insecurity.

Those who enjoy the draft and college football like us, we watch football all year long.
It's simply what we do.

revan
05-08-2013, 10:39 PM
I'm afraid that it might come back and bite the Texans in the rear similar to 2010 when they lacked solid veteran presence in the secondary.

I'm crossing my fingers that AJ can stay healthy the whole year.

I hope that Posier's condition improves as much as possible.
It would make me feel better if what Posey texted in February is true, that he doesn't think he will miss any game.
I'd settle for him to be able to come back mid-season in game shape.
But I was warned by the Doc that Posey may never be the same again.

The Texans really need to find a veteran soon.

I wouldn't be too worried. The 2010 secondary like you said had no solid veteran presence. On offense it would be AJ, Daniels, Foster, Schaub taking over while not asking Hopkins to do much. Lets hope Hopkins takes advantage of the man to man and demands safety help and double coverage. It will make everyone better.

Swearinger
05-09-2013, 07:03 AM
Howdy all. Just wanted to say as a die hard, long time Gamecocks fan living in Columbia SC, i think Houston got the best all around WR in the draft. Time will tell if that's true of course but i really think he is.

He's not a low 4.3 blazer like Austin as some of you already know by studying up on him, but he's fast enough to be a home run threat and make big plays. He does everything quite well and can do it in either the slot or as an outside #2 WR. Something Austin probably won't be able to do in the NFL (other than a returner of course) due to his small frame and small catch radius. Hopkins gives you more options and is more versatile for a wider variety of offensive packages.

My only knock or area where i think Nuk needs and can improve that is vital in Houstons offense is his blocking. I think he needs to be stronger in that area and more aggressive there. Swearinger even got him during the SC/Clemson game last year about Nuks lack of it and told him he's "going to get his RB killed" if he doesn't block better. But that is something that can be coached up and i think Nuk will work his butt off to improve int hat area. He's a coachable kid.

Even though i despise Clemson, i always give credit where credit is due and Hopkins is a heck of player. Great route runner, excellent hands, he'll fight for the ball, and he's excellent after the catch. Things i've witnessed first hand. I think he's just the type of WO the Texans were looking for to help their offense and feel pretty confident he won't let you or the organization down.

Anywho, looking forward to checking out the forum and following Nuk and Swearinger and Montgomery, who i was really hoping he would commit to South Carolina since he's from the area, careers and wish them all nothing but great success.

Playoffs
05-09-2013, 07:32 AM
Howdy all. Just wanted to say as a die hard, long time Gamecocks fan living in Columbia SC, i think Houston got the best all around WR in the draft. Time will tell if that's true of course but i really think he is.

He's not a low 4.3 blazer like Austin as some of you already know by studying up on him, but he's fast enough to be a home run threat and make big plays. He does everything quite well and can do it in either the slot or as an outside #2 WR. Something Austin probably won't be able to do in the NFL (other than a returner of course) due to his small frame and small catch radius. Hopkins gives you more options and is more versatile for a wider variety of offensive packages.

My only knock or area where i think Nuk needs and can improve that is vital in Houstons offense is his blocking. I think he needs to be stronger in that area and more aggressive there. Swearinger even got him during the SC/Clemson game last year about Nuks lack of it and told him he's "going to get his RB killed" if he doesn't block better. But that is something that can be coached up and i think Nuk will work his butt off to improve int hat area. He's a coachable kid.

Even though i despise Clemson, i always give credit where credit is due and Hopkins is a heck of player. Great route runner, excellent hands, he'll fight for the ball, and he's excellent after the catch. Things i've witnessed first hand. I think he's just the type of WO the Texans were looking for to help their offense and feel pretty confident he won't let you or the organization down.

Anywho, looking forward to checking out the forum and following Nuk and Swearinger and Montgomery, who i was really hoping he would commit to South Carolina since he's from the area, careers and wish them all nothing but great success.

Welcome to TexansTalk. Thanks for the input. Looking forward to seeing these guys in action.

thunderkyss
05-09-2013, 08:44 AM
You're always good at going circular. :)

The facts still remain the same no matter how many speculations are out there.

I'd like to have a staff of closers like what the Patriots have.
They certainly were able to close a lot of deals on draft day.

& this is the point. You're using supposition as "fact" & saying the Texans aren't doing their due diligence to make the most of the draft.

Even though it was presented that the Texans wanted a 4th

fwiw i read peter kings article about the rams draft, the Texans are mentioned a few times...

apparently we offered to trade up to #22 with the rams for a 4th & 6th rder...but they accepted the falcons trade instead to trade down to #30 (for a 3rd and 7th)

later, the rams offered a 6th to move from #30 (after they had traded down from #22) to #27 which the Texans (obviously) rejected. rick wanted a 4th rder to do that trade


This would suggest if the Patriots offered (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/25/vikings-trade-with-patriots-take-cordarrelle-patterson/)a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, & 7th they would have took it. Since they didn't trade away the 27th pick the most obvious conclusion was that it wasn't offered.

Yet you believe since the Vikings made that trade with New England, that offer was presented to the Texans & that's just not the case. 1+2 does not equal 5.

Now, if your criticism is that the Texans should have taken the Ram's offer, or that they should have been able to coax a 4th into the Ram's offer, then that's a different story.

Right now, the point is there is no evidence that the Vikings offered to trade up to 27.

thunderkyss
05-09-2013, 08:49 AM
He's not a low 4.3 blazer like Austin as some of you already know by studying up on him, but he's fast enough to be a home run threat and make big plays. He does everything quite well and can do it in either the slot or as an outside #2 WR. Something Austin probably won't be able to do in the NFL (other than a returner of course) due to his small frame and small catch radius. Hopkins gives you more options and is more versatile for a wider variety of offensive packages.


I agree. He's like a better LeStar Jean. & we've seen Jean make a play or two.

76Texan
05-09-2013, 08:49 AM
Howdy all. Just wanted to say as a die hard, long time Gamecocks fan living in Columbia SC, i think Houston got the best all around WR in the draft. Time will tell if that's true of course but i really think he is.

He's not a low 4.3 blazer like Austin as some of you already know by studying up on him, but he's fast enough to be a home run threat and make big plays. He does everything quite well and can do it in either the slot or as an outside #2 WR. Something Austin probably won't be able to do in the NFL (other than a returner of course) due to his small frame and small catch radius. Hopkins gives you more options and is more versatile for a wider variety of offensive packages.

My only knock or area where i think Nuk needs and can improve that is vital in Houstons offense is his blocking. I think he needs to be stronger in that area and more aggressive there. Swearinger even got him during the SC/Clemson game last year about Nuks lack of it and told him he's "going to get his RB killed" if he doesn't block better. But that is something that can be coached up and i think Nuk will work his butt off to improve int hat area. He's a coachable kid.

Even though i despise Clemson, i always give credit where credit is due and Hopkins is a heck of player. Great route runner, excellent hands, he'll fight for the ball, and he's excellent after the catch. Things i've witnessed first hand. I think he's just the type of WO the Texans were looking for to help their offense and feel pretty confident he won't let you or the organization down.

Anywho, looking forward to checking out the forum and following Nuk and Swearinger and Montgomery, who i was really hoping he would commit to South Carolina since he's from the area, careers and wish them all nothing but great success.

Welcome to the board.
Don't worry if it sounds like I'm ragging on Hopkins;
I'm not.
Even though I don't watch Clemson in person, I do have some 15-20 of his game tapes (as well as Swearinger and Montgomery, etc.)
I know about Hopkins' blocking, too.
I had posted about it, but he does have the body and the core strength to do the job.
Like you said, he just need to be coached up how to handle different types of defenders in different situations.
The same thing goes in the passing game, there's still a lot for him to learn.

He's a good play maker with many good attributes;
He just doesn't quite have the explosiveness of the top tier receiver.
However, if he dedicates himself, Hopkins can still turn himself into a number one receiver.

It was a difficult choice for me between him, Patterson and Hunter as each of them has his own attributes.
Hopkins is what I would call the safest bet when you take into account off-the-field conduct, and his overall demeanor.

As far as Swearinger is concerned, you may notice a lack of discussion about him.
The "residential" draftniks seem to have a concensus on him already, and there seems to be no protestor in the general populace either.

I have an eye on Jadeveon Clowney for a while already; how do you like him?
I think he will be a terror next year, most likely a top five pick, and maybe even the number one prospect.

76Texan
05-09-2013, 09:06 AM
& this is the point. You're using supposition as "fact" & saying the Texans aren't doing their due diligence to make the most of the draft.

Even though it was presented that the Texans wanted a 4th




This would suggest if the Patriots offered (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/25/vikings-trade-with-patriots-take-cordarrelle-patterson/)a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, & 7th they would have took it. Since they didn't trade away the 27th pick the most obvious conclusion was that it wasn't offered.

Yet you believe since the Vikings made that trade with New England, that offer was presented to the Texans & that's just not the case. 1+2 does not equal 5.

Now, if your criticism is that the Texans should have taken the Ram's offer, or that they should have been able to coax a 4th into the Ram's offer, then that's a different story.

Right now, the point is there is no evidence that the Vikings offered to trade up to 27.

For the last time, TK.

The fact is that there was a trade; even if it wasn't offered, there was a possibility. At no point did I say that there was an offer made.

A good sales staff should work the phone hard and leave no stone unturned.
Work better with a solid plan so they can sniff out the lead before it even surfaces.
It goes far and beyond that, as I understand that coaches and GMs have their own little circles just like in any profession.
I'd like the Texans to have a "spy" in each of those circles. :)

Swearinger
05-12-2013, 01:58 PM
Welcome to the board.
Don't worry if it sounds like I'm ragging on Hopkins;
I'm not.
Even though I don't watch Clemson in person, I do have some 15-20 of his game tapes (as well as Swearinger and Montgomery, etc.)
I know about Hopkins' blocking, too.
I had posted about it, but he does have the body and the core strength to do the job.
Like you said, he just need to be coached up how to handle different types of defenders in different situations.
The same thing goes in the passing game, there's still a lot for him to learn.

He's a good play maker with many good attributes;
He just doesn't quite have the explosiveness of the top tier receiver.
However, if he dedicates himself, Hopkins can still turn himself into a number one receiver.

It was a difficult choice for me between him, Patterson and Hunter as each of them has his own attributes.
Hopkins is what I would call the safest bet when you take into account off-the-field conduct, and his overall demeanor.

As far as Swearinger is concerned, you may notice a lack of discussion about him.
The "residential" draftniks seem to have a concensus on him already, and there seems to be no protestor in the general populace either.

I have an eye on Jadeveon Clowney for a while already; how do you like him?
I think he will be a terror next year, most likely a top five pick, and maybe even the number one prospect.Sorry for the late response...

Yeah i think right out the box out of Hopkins, Patterson, and Hunter, Hopkins has the better "plug-n-play" potential. He's an exceptional route runner and knows how to seperate from defenders the best of the three IMO. I hate sounding like a broken record but that so key in transitioning to the next level. Followed closely by Hunter then Patterson who may have the most upside based off of his speed and athleticism. If Patterson can catch on to the NFL game, the skies the limit for that kid, he'll be special. But like you said they all bring their own attributes to the table. But i really think Hopkins is going to be a star in Houston's offense.

Clowney, man, what a special player. I'm so bias when it comes to him though. There were times last year when i had to keep reminding myself i was watching a 19 year old Sophomore. You may already have heard he's beefed up to 270ish now and still has his speed. 270 was his target weight for the coaching staff when they signed him and he's filled in quite nicely. The skies the limit for him. Around the middle to late last season Clowney really started to realize his potential and started playing harder late in games. There were times when he got a little lazy or lethargic and Whammy, the DC, challenged him. From the Florida game through to Michigan he played his tail off for 4 quarters and finished with a great season. Yeah, he should be even better this year. I'm certainly hoping so.

Top 5 pick seems to the consensus from most fans and draftniks, but i think him possibly going #1 will depend if that team with the first pick already has a Franchise QB playing for them you know? As much as i'm a fan of Clowney, i'm just as big a fan of Bridgewater. Kid's no bigger than a minute (skinny), but he's such a great passer. If he picks up where he left off last year, he'll most likely or should declare and be in the discussion for the top pick in the draft.

76Texan
05-12-2013, 02:38 PM
It's good talking to you, SC fan.
I like your take a lot.

Enjoy Clowney while you can.

I must admit that I haven't paid real close attention to Bridgewater yet.
I did watch him some, but it was still early for me to get into the nitty-gritty with the next class.

Good luck to the Gamecocks next season.
They are one of the SEC underdogs I normally cheer for.

Hope you come back during the season to check out your boy.
When he stinks up the join, you'd be sure to hear about it.

Just kidding!

thunderkyss
05-12-2013, 07:26 PM
Sorry for the late response...


Say that reminds me......

Did you create an account on the boards of the other 6 teams that drafted a GameCock?

Or is there something special about the Texans?

Not that I mind, you're absolutely welcome here, we're glad to have you. You've already contributed quite a bit with your insight of the ACC/SEC

I'm just asking.

Swearinger
05-13-2013, 06:49 AM
Say that reminds me......

Did you create an account on the boards of the other 6 teams that drafted a GameCock?

Or is there something special about the Texans?

Not that I mind, you're absolutely welcome here, we're glad to have you. You've already contributed quite a bit with your insight of the ACC/SEC

I'm just asking.Here and a 9er board, and eventually i'll check out a Jags board to see some thoughts on Ace Sanders.

I was curious what 9er nation thoughts were on getting Lattimore. I have so much respect for him and what he's done for a football program trying to make a name for themselves. Latti and Swearinger are right up their as two of my all time favorite Gamecocks, so those were the only two i've followed so far.

I have a lot of respect for the Texans organization. McNair being a former SC alum, and i'm a fan of Kubs as well. I've been meaning to sign up here for a while but just got lazy about it. Swearinger coming here was the final straw.

FWIW, i like the atmosphere here better. No knock on 9er fans. Just diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

Swearinger
05-13-2013, 07:00 AM
It's good talking to you, SC fan.
I like your take a lot.

Enjoy Clowney while you can.

I must admit that I haven't paid real close attention to Bridgewater yet.
I did watch him some, but it was still early for me to get into the nitty-gritty with the next class.

Good luck to the Gamecocks next season.
They are one of the SEC underdogs I normally cheer for.

Hope you come back during the season to check out your boy.
When he stinks up the join, you'd be sure to hear about it.

Just kidding!Yeah, i'm going to soak him up as much as possible. It's been too long since we're had any DLine talent like him come through. Not since John Abraham and that was over a decade ago.

Really looking forward to seeing what Hopkins can do. The jump he made from his Soph. season to his Jr. season was huge. With Watkins suspended early, battling an illness at one point, then getting dinged up, Nuk needed to step up and be the go to guy early and often. He did, and he never stopped.

TexansSeminole
05-13-2013, 12:40 PM
Really looking forward to seeing what Hopkins can do. The jump he made from his Soph. season to his Jr. season was huge. With Watkins suspended early, battling an illness at one point, then getting dinged up, Nuk needed to step up and be the go to guy early and often. He did, and he never stopped.

I'm glad to have you here. Hoping to see your takes throughout the NFL and college football season. I'll be especially looking for your analysis on Clemson, and South Carolina when I am unable to watch them. I can tell that you watch both teams pretty closely.

Swearinger
05-13-2013, 02:00 PM
I'm glad to have you here. Hoping to see your takes throughout the NFL and college football season. I'll be especially looking for your analysis on Clemson, and South Carolina when I am unable to watch them. I can tell that you watch both teams pretty closely.

Thanks. I'm taking it from your username you're a FSU fan?

I'm a HUGE college football fan in general.

TexansSeminole
05-13-2013, 02:02 PM
Thanks. I'm taking it from your username you're a FSU fan?

I'm a HUGE college football fan in general.

Yep, Florida State. I also watch alot of ACC in general.

Swearinger
05-13-2013, 02:33 PM
Yep, Florida State. I also watch alot of ACC in general.Jumbo is doing a heck of a job, especially recruiting. Not that FSU ever hurt in that department. But it seems to be picking up even more for y'all. Too bad for the rest of us trying to pry talent from Florida.

Sorry to get off subject folks.

281
05-18-2013, 03:35 PM
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/hopkins-takes-part-in-topps-nflpa-rookie-premiere/?fb_source=pubv1

Nuk!!!

thunderkyss
05-18-2013, 07:09 PM
Uh..... why does our guy look like a midget?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKkmFNTCIAAaZbD.jpg:large

Not that there's anything wrong with midgets, but dammmmmmmn Hunter is tall.

infantrycak
05-18-2013, 07:20 PM
Uh..... why does our guy look like a midget?

Not that there's anything wrong with midgets, but dammmmmmmn Hunter is tall.

If you say so. Hopkins is 3" shorter and 18 lbs heavier. Not seeing midget.

thunderkyss
05-18-2013, 07:23 PM
If you say so. Hopkins is 3" shorter and 18 lbs heavier. Not seeing midget.

If that's three inches.....

OK..... looks like a lot more, hence the question.

infantrycak
05-18-2013, 07:44 PM
If that's three inches.....

OK..... looks like a lot more, hence the question.

#38 is 5'9" for perspective. So its him plus three and then plus three.

ObsiWan
05-18-2013, 10:22 PM
#38 is 5'9" for perspective. So its him plus three and then plus three.
And looking at the shadows, Hunter is at least a couple of feet closer to the camera. That also plays into the illusion.

Premier
05-19-2013, 03:28 PM
https://vine.co/v/bEYvu22iI2l

wish i could embed it... nice hands from hopkins..

drs23
05-19-2013, 03:41 PM
https://vine.co/v/bEYvu22iI2l

wish i could embed it... nice hands from hopkins..

NICE! What stadium/field is that?

Lucky
05-19-2013, 04:16 PM
NICE! What stadium/field is that?
The Rose Bowl (http://www.sportscardradio.com/news/1519-2013-nfl-rookie-premiere-photo-shoot).

drs23
05-19-2013, 05:05 PM
The Rose Bowl (http://www.sportscardradio.com/news/1519-2013-nfl-rookie-premiere-photo-shoot).

Thanks much for the reply. I was thrown there 'cause I didn't recognize the stadium but he was wearing his Texans jersey.

That was a sick, effortless one handed fluid catch! Can't wait to see my choice for the #1 pick in action. He is gonna kick some ass! Glad to see AJ finally get some help!

The Pencil Neck
05-20-2013, 09:28 PM
Saw this on facebook. (http://bit.ly/10hedKm)

I hope he can do that IRL.

Lucky
05-20-2013, 09:34 PM
Saw this on facebook. (http://bit.ly/10hedKm)

I hope he can do that IRL.
I'd prefer both hands on the ball in competition. But, Hopkins hands are special.

DocBar
05-22-2013, 09:10 PM
Saw this on facebook. (http://bit.ly/10hedKm)

I hope he can do that IRL.I'll take that all day long over alligator arms.

I'm looking forward to seeing someone not named AJ fight for a ball and come down with it.

You know how Schaub is always over throwing his receivers with his laser pen bottle rocket arm and all. :cowboy1:

b0ng
05-23-2013, 12:03 AM
nothing to see here

Playoffs
05-24-2013, 08:52 AM
That high release makes me think that one bounced to the plate?

http://distilleryimage7.s3.amazonaws.com/7f07856ec30b11e29c6622000a1f9e4a_7.jpg

deucetx
05-24-2013, 08:55 AM
That high release makes me think that one bounced to the plate?

http://distilleryimage7.s3.amazonaws.com/7f07856ec30b11e29c6622000a1f9e4a_7.jpg

Sounds like he would fit right in with the Astros bullpen then :kitten:

ChampionTexan
05-24-2013, 08:57 AM
That high release makes me think that one bounced to the plate?

http://distilleryimage7.s3.amazonaws.com/7f07856ec30b11e29c6622000a1f9e4a_7.jpg

Nope - here's the video.

http://www.tigernet.com/update/football/Video-Photos-Hopkins-throws-pitch-Astros-game-11167

Rey
05-24-2013, 09:01 AM
No one is at the game....

TejasTom
05-24-2013, 10:23 AM
No one is at the game....

Everyone is watching from home...wait they can't.

Baseball season has started?

I guess the 3 people on the 'stros mailing list showed up for Nuk.

I would have went to see him and the snow cones.

ObsiWan
05-25-2013, 10:56 AM
Nope - here's the video.

http://www.tigernet.com/update/football/Video-Photos-Hopkins-throws-pitch-Astros-game-11167

Sooo.... he likes to come in high and tight to lefties...?
:kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2013, 11:04 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/files/2013/05/DeAndre-Hopkins3.jpg

Wonder when the first time someone legally takes Hopkins down by his hair..........and he takes the hint that having a shaved head as a wide receiver could be more advantageous?:kitten:

infantrycak
05-25-2013, 11:09 PM
Wonder when the first time someone legally takes Hopkins down by his hair..........and he takes the hint that having a shaved head as a wide receiver could be more advantageous?:kitten:

It hasn't been an issue for Steven Jackson.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/01/29/image6154544x.jpg

texasguy346
05-25-2013, 11:19 PM
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/the-huddle/2011/11/19/torreyx-large.jpg

Found this picture of Torrey Smith being taken down by his hair and thought I'd share.

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2013, 11:23 PM
It hasn't been an issue for Steven Jackson.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2010/01/29/image6154544x.jpg

Not too many would even think of messing with Jackson. If one would ever do so, they would probably be made to think long and hard before they ever considered it a second time.:pirate:

thunderkyss
05-25-2013, 11:25 PM
Not too many would even think of messing with Jackson. If one would ever do so, they would probably be made to think long and hard before they ever considered it a second time.:pirate:

I thought someone did grab him by that hair...

Once.

infantrycak
05-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Oddly enough if you google dreadlocks WR this image comes up. Figured someone would want to tackle her.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/28864e877deb93e0652a9b161d8d9c49/tumblr_mmeh4j66Wr1s8rybto1_500.jpg

More seriously, this guy seems to do pretty well when he has a QB:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/816/514/hi-res-157040121_crop_650x440.jpg?1355163502

DocBar
05-25-2013, 11:33 PM
Oddly enough if you google dreadlocks WR this image comes up. Figured someone would want to tackle her.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/28864e877deb93e0652a9b161d8d9c49/tumblr_mmeh4j66Wr1s8rybto1_500.jpgSANTA MARIA!!!!! She can be my tackling dummy any day!!!!