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badboy
04-17-2013, 04:29 PM
Players you expect to step it up over last season or take it up another level. Possible cuts *

Braman LB

Brooks OG

*Clutts FB

B. Harris DB

*Lestar Jean WR

Keyshawn Martin WR

Whitney Mercilus OLB

Mitchell DT

Newton RT

Pleasant DB

Sharpton LB (playing for a contract with someone)

Antonio Smith (playing for a final contract with someone)

Ben Tate

Rey
04-17-2013, 04:43 PM
I don't think LeStar is getting cut. He didn't have a great season, but when given the chance last season he usually made some pretty big plays....

IDEXAN
04-17-2013, 05:19 PM
Yea, but Lestar also dropped a ton of balls, including quite a few in third and longs.

eriadoc
04-17-2013, 05:40 PM
JMO, but they need to use Jean across the middle, on comeback routes, etc. He doesn't have the deep speed to run the fly routes they tried with him last year, but he's got good height and has a knack for making plays on the ball. He attacks the ball pretty well.

eriadoc
04-17-2013, 05:41 PM
Yea, but Lestar also dropped a ton of balls, including quite a few in third and longs.

Define a ton, please. Are we talking about 2000 lbs worth of balls? 10 drops? 2 drops? A high percentage of his overall catch total? Or just some nebulous feeling that you have?

badboy
04-17-2013, 05:50 PM
JMO, but they need to use Jean across the middle, on comeback routes, etc. He doesn't have the deep speed to run the fly routes they tried with him last year, but he's got good height and has a knack for making plays on the ball. He attacks the ball pretty well.this is what I want to see also as Jean could be an AJ type player. He is strong enough to battle DBs and take ball away or force it to ground. He is a big target and his hands should be good enough. Maybe with Walter gone, he will get more opportunities and that is why I have him as a step it up player. If he cannot get it done and soon, time to move on and allow others a chance like Jeff Maehl.

kingtexan
04-17-2013, 06:19 PM
Define a ton, please. Are we talking about 2000 lbs worth of balls? 10 drops? 2 drops? A high percentage of his overall catch total? Or just some nebulous feeling that you have?

I didn't think he dropped that many.

infantrycak
04-17-2013, 07:09 PM
Define a ton, please. Are we talking about 2000 lbs worth of balls? 10 drops? 2 drops? A high percentage of his overall catch total? Or just some nebulous feeling that you have?

I am not jumping into this debate. I do not have a drop number. Thru the season he was targeted 13 times and caught 6 passes.

The Pencil Neck
04-17-2013, 07:26 PM
I didn't think he dropped that many.

I was more worried about K-Mart's drops but I haven't looked at actual targets, catches, drops for them.

I didn't think Jean got enough targets to be able to drop a ton. Half a ton? Quarter of a ton? Maybe, but not a whole ton.

infantrycak
04-17-2013, 07:38 PM
I was more worried about K-Mart's drops but I haven't looked at actual targets, catches, drops for them.

I didn't think Jean got enough targets to be able to drop a ton. Half a ton? Quarter of a ton? Maybe, but not a whole ton.

K-Mart was targeted 27 times and caught 10.

76Texan
04-17-2013, 08:04 PM
K-Mart was targeted 27 times and caught 10.

Martin was the guy who had too many drops (4).
You can find the stats at Stats LLC.
Out of 14 catchable balls, that was way too many; and it did not even include the one time I remember he slipped and the DB intercepted the ball.

Jean only dropped one ball, but he had fewer targets. His drop percentage was nearly 15% if I calculate it correctly; that's about 3 times more than AJ's usual number. The thing with Jean is that he couldn't finish or extend the route or get in and out of his breaks sharply enough to get the needed seperation.

steelbtexan
04-17-2013, 08:17 PM
Jean/Martin are JAGS as WR's. Martin has some value as a KR/PR and a 4-5th WR.

They need to spend atleast 2 draft picks on WR's. Preferably on early (!st/2nd Rd.) and one late. (5-7th Rd.)

SteveSlaton20
04-17-2013, 08:52 PM
no way we cut Jean unless Posey is healthy by the time the season starts and if we draft two more WRs.

infantrycak
04-17-2013, 09:01 PM
Martin was the guy who had too many drops (4).
You can find the stats at Stats LLC.
Out of 14 catchable balls, that was way too many

I am well aware of stats inc. but sorry I do not believe only 52% of the balls thrown to Martin were catchable. Seriously, catchable? We're talking about a QB who COMPLETES 65+% and for whatever reason he can't throw catchable balls to Martin. The guy has bad hands. I'm not saying give up on him but he sure as hell needs to be working with the Juggs machine.

Texan_Bill
04-17-2013, 09:03 PM
Yea, but Lestar also dropped a ton of balls, including quite a few in third and longs.

Jacoby Jones?

Texan_Bill
04-17-2013, 09:09 PM
I am well aware of stats inc. but sorry I do not believe only 52% of the balls thrown to Martin were catchable. Seriously, catchable? We're talking about a QB who COMPLETES 65+% and for whatever reason he can't throw catchable balls to Martin. The guy has bad hands. I'm not saying give up on him but he sure as hell needs to be working with the Juggs machine.

Well, that begs an interesting question:

A) How is it that a QB has an "X" completion rate

versus:

B) A receiver's completion rate??

The former is much higher than the latter, but why?

Lack of trust? Lack of continuity?? (etc.)




Genuinely an interesting discussion.

Texan_Bill
04-17-2013, 09:11 PM
I know this..............


3rd and 5, late in a playoff game I'm throwing the ball AJ's way. An interception has better chance of working out the Texans way, WAAAAY better than throwing the ball out of bounds.

Just sayin'!

76Texan
04-17-2013, 09:28 PM
I am well aware of stats inc. but sorry I do not believe only 52% of the balls thrown to Martin were catchable. Seriously, catchable? We're talking about a QB who COMPLETES 65+% and for whatever reason he can't throw catchable balls to Martin. The guy has bad hands. I'm not saying give up on him but he sure as hell needs to be working with the Juggs machine.

The sample is too small, it could happen.

The thing is though, drop is not something Martin did in college.
I remember, tallying the count in one of the film study thread, and he had only one in some ten games I watched (and that included all the returns, too).

Looks like he lost some confidence after one of the drops; I don't remember which one, but I remember distinctly that he looked really dejected on the bench. He's just have got to bounce back from it.

76Texan
04-17-2013, 09:43 PM
Well, that begs an interesting question:

A) How is it that a QB has an "X" completion rate

versus:

B) A receiver's completion rate??

The former is much higher than the latter, but why?

Lack of trust? Lack of continuity?? (etc.)

Even when the Qb gets pressured and the pass went astray (when Schaub threw the ball at Foster's feet on a screen pass for example), it was still charted as a target to Foster.

silvrhand
04-17-2013, 09:51 PM
I am well aware of stats inc. but sorry I do not believe only 52% of the balls thrown to Martin were catchable. Seriously, catchable? We're talking about a QB who COMPLETES 65+% and for whatever reason he can't throw catchable balls to Martin. The guy has bad hands. I'm not saying give up on him but he sure as hell needs to be working with the Juggs machine.

I thought you weren't jumping into this debate lol :)

Mari-OWNED!
04-18-2013, 05:37 AM
I'm trying to figure out why Braman hasn't seen that many snaps at OLB. The only plausible answer I can think of is that he may not be disciplined enough to stop the run game, but as a pass rusher he has a lot to be excited about. His bull-rush is nasty!

badboy
04-18-2013, 11:15 AM
I am well aware of stats inc. but sorry I do not believe only 52% of the balls thrown to Martin were catchable. Seriously, catchable? We're talking about a QB who COMPLETES 65+% and for whatever reason he can't throw catchable balls to Martin. The guy has bad hands. I'm not saying give up on him but he sure as hell needs to be working with the Juggs machine.This. I don't know if Martin had rookie fever but other than a few bright spots was an epic fail imo. Side note to other posters on Jean, I need to see more than training camp potential. If he can't get going, give his reps to someone else. AJ will get his usual (if not even more as MS knows what he has) TEs and at least one draftee.

ThaJokaa
04-18-2013, 11:19 AM
LeStar Jean isnt getting cut

badboy
04-18-2013, 12:56 PM
LeStar Jean isnt getting cutSupport your position or admit is simply your opinion based on nothing. He is a low pay UDFA that has shown minimal in actual games. Potential in UDFA all over the place this year.

76Texan
04-18-2013, 01:01 PM
Support your position or admit is simply your opinion based on nothing. He is a low pay UDFA that has shown minimal in actual games. Potential in UDFA all over the place this year.

His low pay might be the key for him sticking, at least until Posey can demonstrate that he can make a successful come back from injury.

At least Jean has had a couple of years in the system.
He should have most of the offensive concept down, and we don't have enough "veterans" at WR on the squad.

bckey
04-18-2013, 01:05 PM
Support your position or admit is simply your opinion based on nothing. He is a low pay UDFA that has shown minimal in actual games. Potential in UDFA all over the place this year.

Thats the problem. Jean barely saw the field. He really didn't have a chance to show much.

badboy
04-18-2013, 01:22 PM
His low pay might be the key for him sticking, at least until Posey can demonstrate that he can make a successful come back from injury.

At least Jean has had a couple of years in the system.
He should have most of the offensive concept down, and we don't have enough "veterans" at WR on the squad.Your post and bcky: low pay players are eveywhere and don't see as a factor in keepin him. Now if he was a middle pick like Martin, maybe. Listen guys, I want Jean to work as I like his size but like all low round or undrafteds, he needs to produce every play and he has not. We are in Super Bowl mode and cannot waste much more time on Jean who is in third year regardless of how little fied time he has seen.

76Texan
04-18-2013, 01:31 PM
Your post and bcky: low pay players are eveywhere and don't see as a factor in keepin him. Now if he was a middle pick like Martin, maybe. Listen guys, I want Jean to work as I like his size but like all low round or undrafteds, he needs to produce every play and he has not. We are in Super Bowl mode and cannot waste much more time on Jean who is in third year regardless of how little fied time he has seen.

Potential UDFAs are most likely more ineffective than Jean.
It's extremely doubtful that an UDFA can see many offensive snaps in their first year under Kubiak.

badboy
04-18-2013, 02:43 PM
Potential UDFAs are most likely more ineffective than Jean.
It's extremely doubtful that an UDFA can see many offensive snaps in their first year under Kubiak.I would flood TC with UDFAs regardless. We
know what we have or do not with Jean and if he does not step up what are we expecting? Two seasons in system and basically nothing, let someone like Maehl get a chance. I am hoping we draft 2 WR. Jean got 6 receptions and that should not be too hard to replace.

76Texan
04-18-2013, 05:42 PM
I would flood TC with UDFAs regardless. We
know what we have or do not with Jean and if he does not step up what are we expecting? Two seasons in system and basically nothing, let someone like Maehl get a chance. I am hoping we draft 2 WR. Jean got 6 receptions and that should not be too hard to replace.

I don't mind us drafting a couple of receivers either.
But you know I prefer to trade our first for a future pick so that we can package it with ours to move up to get a real number one receiver.
You know I've already identified 3-4 prospects in the college football forum.

badboy
04-18-2013, 06:09 PM
I don't mind us drafting a couple of receivers either.
But you know I prefer to trade our first for a future pick so that we can package it with ours to move up to get a real number one receiver.
You know I've already identified 3-4 prospects in the college football forum.Well hopefully our draft will pull in a sure starter whether or not he can be an eventual #1 or not. I was not a Posey fan but am optimitic he will return in time to get some work in and be a stud in 2014. If he is and we strike gold with one '13 pick we have three solid guys. Martin and Jean could be gravy. I do believe that seond round guys & even some third rounders like Dobson and Bailey and perhaps Hamilton could become solid WRs so get them now rather than hope you can trade up next year.

EVOLVIST
04-20-2013, 02:25 AM
You know, I've been hyper critical of the Earl Mitchell pick since day 1, since I had Geno Atkins on my board in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft. The Texans take Mitchell in the 3rd at pick #81. Atkins gets drafted in the 4th at pick #120.

Anyway, yeah Mitchell needs to step it up, but to be fair, as a NT in a 3-4 he has out performed Cody in every aspect of the game.

Shuan Cody - Career stats - 190 tackles - 3 sacks - 2 FFs. 8 Seasons
Earl Mitchell - Career stats - 86 tackles - 2 sacks - 1FF. 3 Seasons

Mitchell has only had 3 starts his entire career.

2012 - Mitchell 3 starts - 31 tackles, Cody 12 starts - 17 tackles
2011 - Mitchell 0 starts - 27 tackles - 1 sack, Cody 16 starts - 23 tackles - 1 sack

Put in another perspective:

BJ Raji - 44 more starts than Mitchell - 112 tackles, 10.5 sacks
Casey Hampton - 161 more starts than Mitchell - 373 tackles - 9 sacks -HOF?
Vince Wilfork - 125 more starts than Mitchell - 460 tackles - 16 sacks - HOF

Compare others. I'm not saying that Earl Mitchell is a world beater, but since the stat line is pretty telling for a defensive lineman (as opposed to some other positions), let's take the middle ground, and say with a Hampton like career of 12 years, at Mitchell's current pace, that's 344 tackles, 8 sacks, at the very least - and that's not even as a starter - which he will be.

I can't find a backup NT in the whole NFL that has stops like Mitchell. So, yes, he needs to step it up, but no, I would be surprised to see another NT taken very high in this coming draft. A backup to Mitchell, sure. Lower rounds. It would be very nice to have a super dominant NT on the team, but you know, we might just have one in Mitchell. It'll be interesting to see what he does with 16 starts in a season, that's for sure.

I mean, if Mitchell had 55 stops, 3.5 sacks, 3 passes defended (like 2012) and 2 FFs, would you take it? That's on par with Wilfork's best years in 2008 and 2011. In other words, at Mitchell's current pace, per season, that is very doable...maybe more!

drs23
04-20-2013, 04:28 PM
You know, I've been hyper critical of the Earl Mitchell pick since day 1, since I had Geno Atkins on my board in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft. The Texans take Mitchell in the 3rd at pick #81. Atkins gets drafted in the 4th at pick #120.

Anyway, yeah Mitchell needs to step it up, but to be fair, as a NT in a 3-4 he has out performed Cody in every aspect of the game.

Shuan Cody - Career stats - 190 tackles - 3 sacks - 2 FFs. 8 Seasons
Earl Mitchell - Career stats - 86 tackles - 2 sacks - 1FF. 3 Seasons

Mitchell has only had 3 starts his entire career.

2012 - Mitchell 3 starts - 31 tackles, Cody 12 starts - 17 tackles
2011 - Mitchell 0 starts - 27 tackles - 1 sack, Cody 16 starts - 23 tackles - 1 sack

Put in another perspective:

BJ Raji - 44 more starts than Mitchell - 112 tackles, 10.5 sacks
Casey Hampton - 161 more starts than Mitchell - 373 tackles - 9 sacks -HOF?
Vince Wilfork - 125 more starts than Mitchell - 460 tackles - 16 sacks - HOF

Compare others. I'm not saying that Earl Mitchell is a world beater, but since the stat line is pretty telling for a defensive lineman (as opposed to some other positions), let's take the middle ground, and say with a Hampton like career of 12 years, at Mitchell's current pace, that's 344 tackles, 8 sacks, at the very least - and that's not even as a starter - which he will be.

I can't find a backup NT in the whole NFL that has stops like Mitchell. So, yes, he needs to step it up, but no, I would be surprised to see another NT taken very high in this coming draft. A backup to Mitchell, sure. Lower rounds. It would be very nice to have a super dominant NT on the team, but you know, we might just have one in Mitchell. It'll be interesting to see what he does with 16 starts in a season, that's for sure.

I mean, if Mitchell had 55 stops, 3.5 sacks, 3 passes defended (like 2012) and 2 FFs, would you take it? That's on par with Wilfork's best years in 2008 and 2011. In other words, at Mitchell's current pace, per season, that is very doable...maybe more!

Great comparison. Rep for the homework.

Insideop
04-20-2013, 04:50 PM
You know, I've been hyper critical of the Earl Mitchell pick since day 1, since I had Geno Atkins on my board in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft. The Texans take Mitchell in the 3rd at pick #81. Atkins gets drafted in the 4th at pick #120.

Anyway, yeah Mitchell needs to step it up, but to be fair, as a NT in a 3-4 he has out performed Cody in every aspect of the game.

Shuan Cody - Career stats - 190 tackles - 3 sacks - 2 FFs. 8 Seasons
Earl Mitchell - Career stats - 86 tackles - 2 sacks - 1FF. 3 Seasons

Mitchell has only had 3 starts his entire career.

2012 - Mitchell 3 starts - 31 tackles, Cody 12 starts - 17 tackles
2011 - Mitchell 0 starts - 27 tackles - 1 sack, Cody 16 starts - 23 tackles - 1 sack

Put in another perspective:

BJ Raji - 44 more starts than Mitchell - 112 tackles, 10.5 sacks
Casey Hampton - 161 more starts than Mitchell - 373 tackles - 9 sacks -HOF?
Vince Wilfork - 125 more starts than Mitchell - 460 tackles - 16 sacks - HOF

Compare others. I'm not saying that Earl Mitchell is a world beater, but since the stat line is pretty telling for a defensive lineman (as opposed to some other positions), let's take the middle ground, and say with a Hampton like career of 12 years, at Mitchell's current pace, that's 344 tackles, 8 sacks, at the very least - and that's not even as a starter - which he will be.

I can't find a backup NT in the whole NFL that has stops like Mitchell. So, yes, he needs to step it up, but no, I would be surprised to see another NT taken very high in this coming draft. A backup to Mitchell, sure. Lower rounds. It would be very nice to have a super dominant NT on the team, but you know, we might just have one in Mitchell. It'll be interesting to see what he does with 16 starts in a season, that's for sure.

I mean, if Mitchell had 55 stops, 3.5 sacks, 3 passes defended (like 2012) and 2 FFs, would you take it? That's on par with Wilfork's best years in 2008 and 2011. In other words, at Mitchell's current pace, per season, that is very doable...maybe more!

:goodpost:

Great post EVOLVIST! Rep coming your way!

Mitchell has turned out to be a pretty good NT, especially since he bulked up some last year. I think he was in the 285 lbs range when the Texans drafted him and now he's something like 300 lbs, which is still a little lite for a 3-4 NT IMO. Problem is, they have only 2 (Terrell McCain and David Hunter) backing him up now. They picked McCain up mid season last year and Hunter was an UDFA Rookie who spent the year on IR. So, don't be surprised if the Texans take a NT in the 1st or 2nd round this year if that's the best player they feel is available at #27 or #57. My guess is they go for someone like Bennie Logan (6'2" 309) in the 2nd or 3rd who has a "high motor," which is what they like.

badboy
04-20-2013, 04:56 PM
You know, I've been hyper critical of the Earl Mitchell pick since day 1, since I had Geno Atkins on my board in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft. The Texans take Mitchell in the 3rd at pick #81. Atkins gets drafted in the 4th at pick #120.

Anyway, yeah Mitchell needs to step it up, but to be fair, as a NT in a 3-4 he has out performed Cody in every aspect of the game.

Shuan Cody - Career stats - 190 tackles - 3 sacks - 2 FFs. 8 Seasons
Earl Mitchell - Career stats - 86 tackles - 2 sacks - 1FF. 3 Seasons

Mitchell has only had 3 starts his entire career.

2012 - Mitchell 3 starts - 31 tackles, Cody 12 starts - 17 tackles
2011 - Mitchell 0 starts - 27 tackles - 1 sack, Cody 16 starts - 23 tackles - 1 sack

Put in another perspective:

BJ Raji - 44 more starts than Mitchell - 112 tackles, 10.5 sacks
Casey Hampton - 161 more starts than Mitchell - 373 tackles - 9 sacks -HOF?
Vince Wilfork - 125 more starts than Mitchell - 460 tackles - 16 sacks - HOF

Compare others. I'm not saying that Earl Mitchell is a world beater, but since the stat line is pretty telling for a defensive lineman (as opposed to some other positions), let's take the middle ground, and say with a Hampton like career of 12 years, at Mitchell's current pace, that's 344 tackles, 8 sacks, at the very least - and that's not even as a starter - which he will be.

I can't find a backup NT in the whole NFL that has stops like Mitchell. So, yes, he needs to step it up, but no, I would be surprised to see another NT taken very high in this coming draft. A backup to Mitchell, sure. Lower rounds. It would be very nice to have a super dominant NT on the team, but you know, we might just have one in Mitchell. It'll be interesting to see what he does with 16 starts in a season, that's for sure.

I mean, if Mitchell had 55 stops, 3.5 sacks, 3 passes defended (like 2012) and 2 FFs, would you take it? That's on par with Wilfork's best years in 2008 and 2011. In other words, at Mitchell's current pace, per season, that is very doable...maybe more!Yes, guarantee me those stats from Mitchell and I move Nose completely off my board. You just cannot project off three starts. He did look better end of season but no way do I put eggs in his basket. I hope he has a great season as it is his final contract year. IMO on that alone we have to draft a significant back up.

EVOLVIST
04-20-2013, 05:49 PM
Yes, guarantee me those stats from Mitchell and I move Nose completely off my board. You just cannot project off three starts. He did look better end of season but no way do I put eggs in his basket. I hope he has a great season as it is his final contract year. IMO on that alone we have to draft a significant back up.

Yeah, no way would I guarantee those stats for 2013. After all, this is a "step it up" thread, and the OP mentioned Mitchell as one of those to step it up. I agree. He does need to. Nothing will be more telling than this coming season. I just think I had been a bit too critical of Mitchell, even though he hasn't been a slouch since day-one; I had simply been comparing him to Geno Atkins, despite Atkins playing in a 4-3.

About the draft? I like your 2.0 mock better. ;) I have Texans talking Bennie Logan out of LSU in the 5th as depth and grooming.

Insideop
04-21-2013, 08:41 AM
Yeah, no way would I guarantee those stats for 2013. After all, this is a "step it up" thread, and the OP mentioned Mitchell as one of those to step it up. I agree. He does need to. Nothing will be more telling than this coming season. I just think I had been a bit too critical of Mitchell, even though he hasn't been a slouch since day-one; I had simply been comparing him to Geno Atkins, despite Atkins playing in a 4-3.

About the draft? I like your 2.0 mock better. ;) I have Texans talking Bennie Logan out of LSU in the 5th as depth and grooming.

Logan will never make it to the 5th round. If the Texans want him they might have to get him with their 2nd pick because he probably won't be there for their 3rd round pick. He's projected to be a 2nd to 3rd rounder by Walter Football. I know Draft Scout has him projected in the 5th but I don't think they have updated their DT list in awhile. I can't see him lasting until the Texans pick in the 5th.

EVOLVIST
04-21-2013, 03:59 PM
Logan will never make it to the 5th round. If the Texans want him they might have to get him with their 2nd pick because he probably won't be there for their 3rd round pick. He's projected to be a 2nd to 3rd rounder by Walter Football. I know Draft Scout has him projected in the 5th but I don't think they have updated their DT list in awhile. I can't see him lasting until the Texans pick in the 5th.

Yeah, actually, I meant to pencil in Logan in the 3rd. I was going by my old draft board a week ago and forgot to update it.

Norg
04-22-2013, 02:18 AM
the hole 53 man roster needs to step it up

deucetx
04-22-2013, 09:18 AM
Good post Evolist. It's one reason I don't see NT as high as many. Unless Wade is changing the defense the NT is not on the field for the Texans as much as other 3-4 defenses. On top of that Mitchell did outplay Cody and is good for penetrating which Wade likes.

Though with that said, if one of the top DT's fall (and there is a slight chance of it) to 27 then I think they should grab him and adjust the defense a bit. Have to adjust to your personnel after all. But if they don't grab one til later in the draft I think they will be fine with Mitchell and a developing player. It's just not a position overly utilized by Wade and we didn't have issues against the run like we did against those fun spread teams tossing the ball all over the place. In those situations the NT is generally not even on the field.

76Texan
04-22-2013, 10:03 AM
Good post Evolist. It's one reason I don't see NT as high as many. Unless Wade is changing the defense the NT is not on the field for the Texans as much as other 3-4 defenses. On top of that Mitchell did outplay Cody and is good for penetrating which Wade likes.

Though with that said, if one of the top DT's fall (and there is a slight chance of it) to 27 then I think they should grab him and adjust the defense a bit. Have to adjust to your personnel after all. But if they don't grab one til later in the draft I think they will be fine with Mitchell and a developing player. It's just not a position overly utilized by Wade and we didn't have issues against the run like we did against those fun spread teams tossing the ball all over the place. In those situations the NT is generally not even on the field.

Mitchell can always split time between NT and DE to give Smith and Watt a breather. And Smith might not be back in 2014.

Lots of teams rotate their linemen.
We can always look for a NT in round 3 or later; however, if we can find one who can play all 3 downs, I wouldn't be pissed if the Texans select him earlier.

kingtexan
04-22-2013, 11:39 AM
I'm trying to figure out why Braman hasn't seen that many snaps at OLB. The only plausible answer I can think of is that he may not be disciplined enough to stop the run game, but as a pass rusher he has a lot to be excited about. His bull-rush is nasty!

Now that we have lost Barwin, I think Braman see's the field more this year.

badboy
04-22-2013, 12:10 PM
Good post Evolist. It's one reason I don't see NT as high as many. Unless Wade is changing the defense the NT is not on the field for the Texans as much as other 3-4 defenses. On top of that Mitchell did outplay Cody and is good for penetrating which Wade likes.

Though with that said, if one of the top DT's fall (and there is a slight chance of it) to 27 then I think they should grab him and adjust the defense a bit. Have to adjust to your personnel after all. But if they don't grab one til later in the draft I think they will be fine with Mitchell and a developing player. It's just not a position overly utilized by Wade and we didn't have issues against the run like we did against those fun spread teams tossing the ball all over the place. In those situations the NT is generally not even on the field.If you are using a beat up older car that is all you have, you might catch a ride to work with someone else; then you get new car in the drive way. You think you would drive the new one more? Wade works with what he has unless he gets a chance to improve a bit. Hankins on the roster would allow him to keep same player in for more plays.

jahunter221
04-22-2013, 12:54 PM
I am really starting to lean toward an inside lb like ogletree in the first due to the fact its such a deep draft for wr's. There should be plenty of good value at wr in the second round. I want us to get back to being a dominant defense and running attack because that is what we are built around. So I would also like to see a right tackle drafted in third.

Mr teX
04-22-2013, 01:08 PM
Merciless is the only guy off that list i expect to step up over what he did last year. I might've put Reed on here but i didn't see enough from him last year to warrant what the thread is about. He seems like a 1 trick pony (speed rusher)..and he's ok at best at that 1 trick. It's sad b/c i had such high hopes for him. He's still got time but...my optimisim is dwindling rapidly.

Everyone else on the list is who they are at this point in their careers imo.

deucetx
04-22-2013, 01:57 PM
Players you expect to step it up over last season or take it up another level. Possible cuts *

Braman LB

Brooks OG

*Clutts FB

B. Harris DB

*Lestar Jean WR

Keyshawn Martin WR

Whitney Mercilus OLB

Mitchell DT

Newton RT

Pleasant DB

Sharpton LB (playing for a contract with someone)

Antonio Smith (playing for a final contract with someone)

Ben Tate

Heh you kind of named almost everyone. I agree with all except maybe Sharpton. I just don't see much there. He seems alright but at this point one has to wonder can he even make it through a season.

Really hoping Harris steps up and we have a battle on the nickle spot. Would be nice to see one of the young players step up and develop to be the 3rd guy there especially how we have issues against the spread as is. Can never go wrong with some quality depth in the secondary.

Out of these Mercilus may be the biggest key though defensively since one would like to think he has the highest ceiling of those mentioned.

badboy
04-22-2013, 03:26 PM
Heh you kind of named almost everyone. I agree with all except maybe Sharpton. I just don't see much there. He seems alright but at this point one has to wonder can he even make it through a season.

Really hoping Harris steps up and we have a battle on the nickle spot. Would be nice to see one of the young players step up and develop to be the 3rd guy there especially how we have issues against the spread as is. Can never go wrong with some quality depth in the secondary.

Out of these Mercilus may be the biggest key though defensively since one would like to think he has the highest ceiling of those mentioned.

We are on same page on Sharpton but I do expect him to play 100% for a new contract.

The Pencil Neck
04-22-2013, 03:41 PM
We are on same page on Sharpton but I do expect him to play 100% for a new contract.

Until he breaks.

badboy
04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
Until he breaks.Yep, my concern also. We will see what Texans think based on how they draft for that position and whom.

infantrycak
04-22-2013, 05:33 PM
Until he breaks.

I just don't think he is that good. IF he can stay healthy he can be the Jay Foreman player you are always looking to upgrade.

The Pencil Neck
04-22-2013, 05:50 PM
I just don't think he is that good. IF he can stay healthy he can be the Jay Foreman player you are always looking to upgrade.

I can't imagine any scenario where Sharpton is our future at ILB. He might be our ILB for the first game or two of the season but my expectation is that we're going to draft Cushing's running mate -- Minter, Te'o, Klein, or Bostic.

I don't have too much of a problem with Sharpton as a backup. I think he can be good depth even though I'd prefer Dobbins and/or Ruud.

badboy
04-22-2013, 07:01 PM
I can't imagine any scenario where Sharpton is our future at ILB. He might be our ILB for the first game or two of the season but my expectation is that we're going to draft Cushing's running mate -- Minter, Te'o, Klein, or Bostic.

I don't have too much of a problem with Sharpton as a backup. I think he can be good depth even though I'd prefer Dobbins and/or Ruud.We need to draft either ILB or NT pretty high for this defense.

tru80texan
04-22-2013, 07:54 PM
We need to draft either ILB or NT pretty high for this defense.

I simply don't see them drafting a NT early. They have dealt w/ the combination of Cody & Mitchell & acted as if it sufficed. I think Mitchell is an upgrade over Cody & they could possibly draft someone to rotate w/ Earl later in the draft, but I think Earl is going to get an opportunity to start. I'm not saying I like it or agree w/ it but based on the Texans lack of concern for that position in the past, I would be surprised if it all of sudden becomes a concern & they give up on a young Mitchell.

I think the best available LB, ILB or OLB, will be an option considering it has already crossed their minds to move Reed. A little flexibility in options, but I think it will be WR or LB early. The star WR wants a running mate & the owner wants a playmaker. I think that's enough said to be honest.

tru80texan
04-22-2013, 07:57 PM
I can't imagine any scenario where Sharpton is our future at ILB. He might be our ILB for the first game or two of the season but my expectation is that we're going to draft Cushing's running mate -- Minter, Te'o, Klein, or Bostic.

I don't have too much of a problem with Sharpton as a backup. I think he can be good depth even though I'd prefer Dobbins and/or Ruud.

I would add Kiko Alonso & Arthur Brown to that group. I use to have hope for Sharpton, but he his simply too fragile. I can't see him being the future.

Texan_Bill
04-22-2013, 09:27 PM
Re: Step it up, Texans

Introduce nickel beers!! That would really be "stepping up"!

badboy
04-22-2013, 09:35 PM
I simply don't see them drafting a NT early. They have dealt w/ the combination of Cody & Mitchell & acted as if it sufficed. I think Mitchell is an upgrade over Cody & they could possibly draft someone to rotate w/ Earl later in the draft, but I think Earl is going to get an opportunity to start. I'm not saying I like it or agree w/ it but based on the Texans lack of concern for that position in the past, I would be surprised if it all of sudden becomes a concern & they give up on a young Mitchell.

I think the best available LB, ILB or OLB, will be an option considering it has already crossed their minds to move Reed. A little flexibility in options, but I think it will be WR or LB early. The star WR wants a running mate & the owner wants a playmaker. I think that's enough said to be honest.I get your point and you may be on target BUT, I do not think you can base today upon what Wade did last season. I think he liked Mercilus and needed another OLB with Mario leaving. 2nd round traded so nothing there with very good picks after that may have eliminated a nose. They had a solid if not great starter in Cody. I am one of the few if not only one who thinks a healthy Cody would get nod over Mitchell this season. Mitchell is in his last year and I do not want to have nothing in the pantry if he does not step it up.

If we don't improve Nose we better get a tackling machine for ILB. In my mocks, I get both.

jahunter221
04-23-2013, 12:17 AM
I get your point and you may be on target BUT, I do not think you can base today upon what Wade did last season. I think he liked Mercilus and needed another OLB with Mario leaving. 2nd round traded so nothing there with very good picks after that may have eliminated a nose. They had a solid if not great starter in Cody. I am one of the few if not only one who thinks a healthy Cody would get nod over Mitchell this season. Mitchell is in his last year and I do not want to have nothing in the pantry if he does not step it up.

If we don't improve Nose we better get a tackling machine for ILB. In my mocks, I get both.
They had a solid if not great starter in Cody.

I'm not quite sure about all that jack

revan
04-25-2013, 12:27 PM
Now that we have lost Barwin, I think Braman see's the field more this year.

This!!!

mmwest
04-25-2013, 01:12 PM
Yea, but Lestar also dropped a ton of balls, including quite a few in third and longs.

A ton a balls? Heck, what was he targeted? Maybe a dozen or so times. Matt/Gary needs to target this guy at least 5 times a game. He's tall , can jump and is not too shabby in the open field. Spread the ball out! Jean,Martin and Tate should've had more touches last year in my opion.

EVOLVIST
04-25-2013, 01:42 PM
This!!!

Except that everybody is going to scream for Braman to ride the pine when they realize he's only good at running a straight line at full speed.

kingtexan
04-25-2013, 06:17 PM
Except that everybody is going to scream for Braman to ride the pine when they realize he's only good at running a straight line at full speed.

I don't know, to block punts you at least have to be able to run at an angle.