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Lurvinator11
04-13-2013, 10:32 PM
NFL.com will be doing a piece on the top 5 best and worst picks for our team on April 22nd. I couldn't wait that long, so I did my own list.

This is just my own opinion, so feel free to list your own opinions on how the list goes.

http://houstontexanfansr.blogspot.com/2013/04/top-5-best-and-worst-draft-picks.html

Hope you enjoy!

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-13-2013, 10:45 PM
Charles Hill has to be one of our worst draft picks. Tony Hollings as well.

ChampionTexan
04-13-2013, 10:49 PM
NFL.com will be doing a piece on the top 5 best and worst picks for our team on April 22nd. I couldn't wait that long, so I did my own list.

This is just my own opinion, so feel free to list your own opinions on how the list goes.

http://houstontexanfansr.blogspot.com/2013/04/top-5-best-and-worst-draft-picks.html

Hope you enjoy!
Edit

Wolf
04-13-2013, 11:00 PM
Tony hollings came to mind

Nfl and texan doctors saying Boselli was ready to go HAS to be number 1

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 12:02 AM
Tony hollings came to mind

Nfl and texan doctors saying Boselli was ready to go HAS to be number 1

I didn't include the expansion draft. I agree Boselli would have gone high, but it was the expansion draft, and not the college draft. I just wanted to do the College draft, since that is what is coming up.

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 12:09 AM
Charles Hill has to be one of our worst draft picks. Tony Hollings as well.

I didn't put Hollings on the list, due to him being selected in the Supplemental draft.

As for Charles Hill, I actually had no memory of him. Remember, I was a bit younger in 2002 :kitten:

I give him somewhat of a break though, due to the fact that we had 12 picks in the draft that season. I know you never want to waste a draft pick, but with the amount we had that season, since we were new, it didn't hurt as bad as taking a first rounder like Travis Johnson, and Babin.

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2013, 12:53 AM
I can't see putting Anthony Hill on that list. He was a 4th round TE drafted to be a blocking TE. The fact that he was injured and didn't see the field a lot doesn't bother me in the least.

I would have put Carr, Morency, Ragone, Charles Hill, and guys like that on there before a 4th round blocking TE.

eriadoc
04-14-2013, 01:54 AM
On Jason Babin - I maintained at the time that Casserly properly identified a talent there. But trading away picks to move up and grab him, then misusing him for four years, was the biggest part of the problem. Babin had somewhat questionable character as well. But he did go on to have a couple great seasons that showed what he had the talent to do - 30 or so sacks in two seasons. That the Texans never developed and/or utilized that talent was just one more failure of a terrible HC/GM tandem.

To me, Amobi Ok0ye has to be in the top 5 worst, not only because of where he was drafted and how poorly he performed to that expectation, but also because of who the team passed on and the fact that the team was not good enough to be taking on development projects in the first round (early first, too) at that point.

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 02:09 AM
To me, Amobi Ok0ye has to be in the top 5 worst, not only because of where he was drafted and how poorly he performed to that expectation, but also because of who the team passed on and the fact that the team was not good enough to be taking on development projects in the first round (early first, too) at that point.

Which is why I have him as number 4. :kitten:

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 02:15 AM
So I guess everyone agrees with my top 5 best draft picks, right?

powda
04-14-2013, 02:18 AM
Bennie joppru has to be in the conversation. A very high 2nd round pick who did next to nothing. Hill is there. Ragone. Hollings. Okye and t Johnson are about even in performance so I give the edge to okoye based on draft position.

Molden would be up there but he's a 3rd round pick. His only competition by that criteria is Ragone whom was drafted when we had carr and sage...he was a luxury pick on a team desperate for talent. Looking back its amazing how much casserly f*cked this team up.

TEXANRED
04-14-2013, 10:02 AM
Can you do a top 5 worst pick for this team? The entire 07 draft class (except Jones) and 08 (except Brown) were busts.

5 worst individuals? Well:

1) David Carr
2) Charles Hill
3) Seth Wand
4) Bennie Joppru
5) DeVier Posey

Special mention: Antwaun Molden, Jason Babin, Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye, Charles Spencer, and Vernand Morency.

I put Posey on there because he was out of football for the 2011 season, basically out until the end of last season, blows out his MCL, will be out next season. So 3 seasons of no football? This is the NFL, you can't do that. A waste of a 3rd round pick.

Top 5 Best:

1) JJ Watt
2) Andre Johnson
3) Brian Cushing
4) Duane Brown
5) Kareem Jackson

Honorable mention: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Danials.

GP
04-14-2013, 10:10 AM
1. Carr
2. Joppru
3. Okoye
4. Travis Johnson
5. Ragone

Wolf
04-14-2013, 11:58 AM
Felt bad for Joppru at the time. He had no injury history when we drafted him.IIRC


Put some salt in the wound...Jason whitten was drafted #69 in the 3rd round that year


However I doubt his career would be like it was being hwwsnn was Qb'ing for the fiirst few years

Wolf
04-14-2013, 12:01 PM
As far as best picks

1) Andre Johnson (thank you Detroit)
2) JJ Watt
3) Brian Cushing
4) Demeco Ryans
5) Duane Brown

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 12:17 PM
So I guess everyone agrees with my top 5 best draft picks, right?

The way most seem to be replying, it seems they agree w/ your best & worst list. Not sure too many are looking at the link you provided.

I do think Babin caught a raw deal here as it was obvious he wasn't a 3-4 lb, so he was evaluated improperly by Casserly/ Capers & then he never got an opportunity w/ Kubiak imo. He was the former regimes player in Kubiak's eyes & they were weeding them out unless your name was Andre Johnson. Babin has had a decent career, so he is a playwright that has talent.

Winston was a good pick imo, but I'm not sure who I would replace w/ him, but I think he was worth noting considering the round he was selected & his contribution.

False Start
04-14-2013, 12:36 PM
No mention of Travis Johnson......:toropalm:

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2013, 02:04 PM
No mention of Travis Johnson......:toropalm:

He was #2 on the original list.

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 03:30 PM
No mention of Travis Johnson......:toropalm:

Yeah, he was No.2 on my list. Had Joppru not been around, Johnson easily would have been number one.

infantrycak
04-14-2013, 03:36 PM
Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.

Lurvinator11
04-14-2013, 03:37 PM
Can you do a top 5 worst pick for this team? The entire 07 draft class (except Jones) and 08 (except Brown) were busts.

5 worst individuals? Well:

1) David Carr
2) Charles Hill
3) Seth Wand
4) Bennie Joppru
5) DeVier Posey

Special mention: Antwaun Molden, Jason Babin, Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye, Charles Spencer, and Vernand Morency.

I put Posey on there because he was out of football for the 2011 season, basically out until the end of last season, blows out his MCL, will be out next season. So 3 seasons of no football? This is the NFL, you can't do that. A waste of a 3rd round pick.

Top 5 Best:

1) JJ Watt
2) Andre Johnson
3) Brian Cushing
4) Duane Brown
5) Kareem Jackson

Honorable mention: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Danials.

The entire 05 class was a bust. I can't put Posey on the list, because he was making strides near the end of the season. Yeah, he got hurt, so maybe he will turn into a bust, but you can't make a decision on him yet.

I like how you put KJax in there. Like the confidence in him. Perhaps he can become a top 5 in the next couple of years.

I know a few of you have Carr in the top 5 worst picks. I honestly couldn't put him in the list, because there were points when he was getting better. I think Pencil Neck mentioned it in one thread, but he said something along the lines of, Carr was playing great in the 04 season, but then hit a wall. He was a young QB, with a terrible coaching staff. Yes he was a bust, just nowhere in the top 5 bust.

ArlingtonTexan
04-14-2013, 03:42 PM
Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.

If my memory is working Witten was largely thought of as a higer ranked prospect and there was a lot of 1st guessing if you were going to draft a TE then at least go Witten. Seems like a 2nd round TE was not thought of that highly then though.

ChampionTexan
04-14-2013, 03:46 PM
Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.

MSR

I agree that the Joppru pick is unfairly bashed as a poor (rather than unproductive) pick. No injury history, nothing to suggest his injuries weren't real, just a failure to have the opportunity to show his talents on an NFL level.

You never hear the same sentiments regarding Charles Spencer, yet their contributions to the Texans were near identical (2 games started for Spencer, 0 games started for Joppru).

infantrycak
04-14-2013, 03:55 PM
If my memory is working Witten was largely thought of as a higer ranked prospect and there was a lot of 1st guessing if you were going to draft a TE then at least go Witten. Seems like a 2nd round TE was not thought of that highly then though.

They were a toss up with Witten being argued as having a higher ceiling but with character concerns. That kind of choice still doesn't strike me as epically bad. Being an expansion team and using a 3rd on a DLmen you cut without ever seeing the field, now that is an epically bad choice.

powda
04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
1. Rb Tony Hollings.

Drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft, Hollings was a converted defensive back who played a limited number of college games as a rb (6 total if memory serves.) He was also comming off a broken leg. Based on draft slotting, draft projection (injury/college performance), and his production for the Texans, he gets top slotting from me.

2. Te Bennie Joppru.

Drafted in the 2nd round we never got anything from him because of injury after injury after injury. He was a myth. The only reason I dont slot him ahead of Hollings is he was regarded as a solid college te. There was more merit for his selection then Hollings. Casserly and company were unlucky with this pick because of injuries. They outsmarted themselves with Hollings.

3. Qb Dave Ragone

3rd round selection. Did he ever take a snap for the Texans? He was selected with Carr and Sage (or was it Banks) on the roster. He was picked because Casserly thought he could parlay Ragone into a 2nd round or 1st round selection down the road. Ragone was a luxury pick a playoff team gambles on. An expansion team desperate for more talent on the roster had no business picking him. Again the Texans outsmarted themselves here.

4. Olb Jason Babin

In a surprise move the Texans traded up into the first round and selected the bone chewing kid from western Michigan. He was sold to us as the next Kevin Green. Instead we got a guy who always had his back to the ball because all he knew how to do was an excruciatingly slow spin move. We did get some field production from Babin but it never lived up to his 1st round selection. Why do I rank him ahead of guys who performed arguably worse on the field you ask? Picking him cost us dearly with several picks when we needed talent the most. To magnify the problem we strengthened a division rival. Babin was a gamble we had to get right. We missed.

5. Dt Amobi Okoye

Lots of possible names could go here. We did get some production from him. He wins out as #5 on the worst list because he was picked higher then people like T Johnson, A Molden, or A Hill. We had high expectations for the brilliant youngster from Louisville. He had flashes his rookie season and then flat lined. He was one of the first big additions of the dismal frank bush era and the beginning of his downfall.

Post mortem:

Why isn't Carr on the list? Carr was a good college qb with great tools. You may recall the Texans were applauded by most nationally for taking Carr over Peppers. We all knew Peppers was going to be a monster but the Texans got a pass because quarterback is the most important position on the field...right? Things like "They're starting out the franchise right by getting the most talented qb available" were said by pundits everywhere. In hindsight we know Carr failed us. I think the Texans failed Carr just as much. I've said it before and it bares repeating - Carr was never going to be great, but he had a chance to be average. The bumbling idiots surrounding carr with bad talent and worse coaching sabotaged his career as much as Carr did.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 04:36 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/draft.htm

Worst to not so worst

1. David Carr was a 5th year Sr who had one monster year vs SMU , Rice , San Jose , Nevada , Utah State and so on . He stunk in the senior Bowl but he had nice white teeth and was good people . He and the cali mafia made the Texans hopeless .

2. Travis Johnson was drafted after the Texans traded back and letting Derrick Johnson and the OT Jamaal Brown go . The real killer though was letting one Aaron Rogers slip by because we had David Freakin Carr .

3. Amobi Okoye cause we let Patrick Willis go for this 19 year old undersized guy who really was to smart for football .

4. Tony Hollings was a 2nd round pick and a converted DB to RB . He sucked big time .

5. Jason Babin cause we traded a second, third, fourth, and fifth in exchange for a first (27th overall) and fifth round pick to the Titans to get him .

honorable mention is to Chuck Hill for getting cut as a 3rd round pick in training camp .

False Start
04-14-2013, 07:02 PM
He was #2 on the original list.

Yeah, he was No.2 on my list. Had Joppru not been around, Johnson easily would have been number one.


My bad I missed that. :rake:

kingtexan
04-14-2013, 07:14 PM
1. Boseli
2. Hollings
3. Hill
4. Okoye
5. Jopru

TheIronDuke
04-14-2013, 09:04 PM
I put Posey on there because he was out of football for the 2011 season, basically out until the end of last season, blows out his MCL, will be out next season. So 3 seasons of no football? This is the NFL, you can't do that. A waste of a 3rd round pick.

Posey was a rookie last season, WTF does him missing a season in college football matter at all to his NFL value? He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season. Plus,you have no clue if he will play this season or not, regardless, it'd be his freaking second year.

TEXANRED
04-14-2013, 09:31 PM
Posey was a rookie last season, WTF does him missing a season in college football matter at all to his NFL value? He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season. Plus,you have no clue if he will play this season or not, regardless, it'd be his freaking second year.

I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.

You are right, Kubes doesnt trust rookies. Just don't tell Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Brown, Slaton, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Barwin, Reed, etc. Those guys may get a little upset knowing they didnt get to play.

And I will reiterate, Posey missed an entire year of football didn't play most of this season, and will miss most if not all of next season. I can't miss 3 years at my job and expect to slide right back in and perform like a top 1% in my chosen profession.

Let him prove me wrong.

Oh and Charles Spencer says high.

TheIronDuke
04-14-2013, 09:45 PM
I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.

You are right, Kubes doesnt trust rookies. Just don't tell Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Brown, Slaton, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Barwin, Reed, etc. Those guys may get a little upset knowing they didnt get to play.

And I will reiterate, Posey missed an entire year of football didn't play most of this season, and will miss most if not all of next season. I can't miss 3 years at my job and expect to slide right back in and perform like a top 1% in my chosen profession.

Let him prove me wrong.


Oh and Charles Spencer says high.

Are you even aware that 2012 was Posey's rookie season? He hasn't missed any time due to injury yet and when he finally got playing time he made plays including a TD catch in the playoffs. How does this make him a bust?

TheIronDuke
04-14-2013, 09:51 PM
Also, just FYI, Posey did play for Ohio State in 2011 though I have no idea what that has to do with his NFL play. He tore his Achilles and isnt expected back until Week 8. Also, you named 2 whole rookies on offense that Kubes used.

infantrycak
04-14-2013, 10:19 PM
He played last season but because Kubes doesn't trust rookies he didn't get playing time until the end of the season.

Or maybe in practice he didn't show what the coaches wanted.

Offensive rookie contributors/starters - Spencer, Winston, Daniels, JJ, Duane Brown, Slaton, etc.

Others have played as rookies as well and this is in the context of drafts which been defensively dominated. I'm not seeing the anti-rookie accusation.

TheIronDuke
04-14-2013, 10:23 PM
Or maybe in practice he didn't show what the coaches wanted.

Offensive rookie contributors/starters - Spencer, Winston, Daniels, JJ, Duane Brown, Slaton, etc.

Others have played as rookies as well and this is in the context of drafts which been defensively dominated. I'm not seeing the anti-rookie accusation.

I'm not even really worried about if Kubes is anti-rookie or not. All I'm saying is that calling Posey a monumental franchise bust because he might miss his second season due to injury is ridiculous.

infantrycak
04-14-2013, 10:26 PM
I'm not even really worried about if Kubes is anti-rookie or not. All I'm saying is that calling Posey a monumental franchise bust because he might miss his second season due to injury is ridiculous.

I agree Posey is not a bust. Was only commenting on the Kubes and rookies issue.

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 10:34 PM
1. HWMSNBM
2. OkOye
3.Joppru
4. Hollings
5. Spencer

Best

1. Watt
2. AJ
3. Cushing
4. OD
5. Ryans

TEXANRED
04-14-2013, 10:40 PM
Also, just FYI, Posey did play for Ohio State in 2011 though I have no idea what that has to do with his NFL play. He tore his Achilles and isnt expected back until Week 8. Also, you named 2 whole rookies on offense that Kubes used.

Posey was suspended his last year at Ohio State for NCAA violations.

Assume he comes back week 8, in the middle of football season, he still won't play b/c he won't be in football shape. He starts the season on the PUP and depending on need at WR at that time of the year he may end the year on IR. I anticipate after this draft to have our WR position taken care of. KMart starts the season as our 2nd receiver, our first rounder is 3rd and a vet plus Jean to finish out the WR core.

My point is you can't take 3 years off and expect to play at a high level.

As far as only naming 2 offensive players since 2006 Kubes has only drafted 20 offensive players. Look who we drafted,

Kasey Studdard, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Frye, Alex Brink, Anthony Hill, Shelley Smith, Dorin Dickerson, Garrett Graham, Trindon Holliday, Jacoby Jones, Wali Lundy, David Anderson, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston, Charles Spencer, Ben Tate, TJ Yates, Brandon Brooks, Ben Jones, Nick Mondek

Not exactly a glowing offensive draft.

I hope I am wrong about Posey. I wish him the best of luck. Maybe you are friends with Posey, show him this post, maybe it will motivate him to work harder. As it stands I would say he has less than a 5% chance of being anything more than a journeyman WR in the NFL.

Insideop
04-14-2013, 10:41 PM
I guess I have a freaking clue based on time to heal this injury, the impact of this type of injury to his position played, conditioning concerns, and it's the freaking NFL.

You are wrong on the injury. As The Iron Duke eluded to earlier, Posey has a torn achilles. That's a much worse injury for a WR than a torn MCL. If it's bad enough he may never fully recover and could lose his speed, his explosion, or his jumping ability. I can't classify him as a bust yet. We have to wait and see what happens, but rather doubt we'll see him this coming season.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 10:46 PM
You are wrong on the injury. As The Iron Duke eluded to earlier, Posey has a torn achilles. That's a much worse injury for a WR than a torn MCL. If it's bad enough he may never fully recover and could lose his speed, his explosion, or his jumping ability. I can't classify him as a bust yet. We have to wait and see what happens, but rather doubt we'll see him this coming season.

I don't consider a guy that got hurt a bust , that's bad luck . Of course if you want to say that we drafted Joppru instead of Witten , that's an arguement .

IDEXAN
04-14-2013, 10:54 PM
On Jason Babin - I maintained at the time that Casserly properly identified a talent there. But trading away picks to move up and grab him, then misusing him for four years, was the biggest part of the problem. Babin had somewhat questionable character as well. But he did go on to have a couple great seasons that showed what he had the talent to do - 30 or so sacks in two seasons. That the Texans never developed and/or utilized that talent was just one more failure of a terrible HC/GM tandem.

Unless you consider tattoos a character issue, can't imagine what you are talking about because Babin was without negative character issues as far as anybody knew. For example, by all reports he was a devoted family man.
Trading away picks ? Maybe you thought Casserly overpaid for the 27th overall, but don't know what that's got to do with Babin being a bad pick. Misusing him or not coaching him correctly ? What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?

TEXANRED
04-14-2013, 11:05 PM
Unless you consider tattoos a character issue, can't imagine what you are talking about because Babin was without negative character issues as far as anybody knew. For example, by all reports he was a devoted family man.
Trading away picks ? Maybe you thought Casserly overpaid for the 27th overall, but don't know what that's got to do with Babin being a bad pick. Misusing him or not coaching him correctly ? What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?
Babin has been cut by the Texans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Eagles, played for 5 teams in 9 years and has had only 2 good seasons.

Babin is a bust.

ChampionTexan
04-14-2013, 11:39 PM
Posey was suspended his last year at Ohio State for NCAA violations.

Assume he comes back week 8, in the middle of football season, he still won't play b/c he won't be in football shape. He starts the season on the PUP and depending on need at WR at that time of the year he may end the year on IR. I anticipate after this draft to have our WR position taken care of. KMart starts the season as our 2nd receiver, our first rounder is 3rd and a vet plus Jean to finish out the WR core.

My point is you can't take 3 years off and expect to play at a high level.




I believe Posey played the final three games of his last year at Ohlo State, - I'm positive he played in their bowl game. More importantly, he continued to practice with the team while he was suspended, so it was actually more like a NCAA version of a practice squad. Aditionally, Posey was active for 11 games this past season, and while playing time was limited, the characterization that he was somehow not active during 2012 is blatently incorrect.

So if you're assumption of coming back after week 8 next season is correct, then your comment about taking 3 years off from football will only be wrong by 2.5 seasons.

TEXANRED
04-14-2013, 11:52 PM
I believe Posey played the final three games of his last year at Ohlo State, - I'm positive he played in their bowl game. More importantly, he continued to practice with the team while he was suspended, so it was actually more like a NCAA version of a practice squad. Aditionally, Posey was active for 11 games this past season, and while playing time was limited, the characterization that he was somehow not active during 2012 is blatently incorrect.

So if you're assumption of coming back after week 8 next season is correct, then your comment about taking 3 years off from football will only be wrong by 2.5 seasons.
Can't comment about practice, Posey played in 3 games, pretty sure Ohio State did not have a bowl game due to NCAA sanctions.

I am assuming Posey is put on IR at some point next year and does not make a week 8 debut.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.

ChampionTexan
04-15-2013, 12:34 AM
Can't comment about practice, Posey played in 3 games, pretty sure Ohio State did not have a bowl game due to NCAA sanctions.

I am assuming Posey is put on IR at some point next year and does not make a week 8 debut.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.

Lost to Florida in the Gator Bowl played Jan.2, 2012 . Posey caught 5 balls for 38 yards and a TD. Sanctions didn't kick in for another year.

thetexanator
04-15-2013, 01:19 AM
1bennie joppru
2jason babin
3travis johnson
4amobi okoye
5antoine caldwell


im not putting carr on here. he had all the tools.

IDEXAN
04-15-2013, 07:38 AM
Babin has been cut by the Texans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Eagles, played for 5 teams in 9 years and has had only 2 good seasons.

Babin is a bust.
He's a multi-year Pro-Bowler who was also voted All-Pro. There's only a very few Texans players who can claim the same honors and accolades. Just because the Texans and apparently other teams couldn't figure out how to use his skills doesn't make him a bad pick. It means the Texans had incompetent coachs.

IDEXAN
04-15-2013, 07:44 AM
1. Rb Tony Hollings.

Drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft, Hollings was a converted defensive back who played a limited number of college games as a rb (6 total if memory serves.) He was also comming off a broken leg. Based on draft slotting, draft projection (injury/college performance), and his production for the Texans, he gets top slotting from me.

2. Te Bennie Joppru.

Drafted in the 2nd round we never got anything from him because of injury after injury after injury. He was a myth. The only reason I dont slot him ahead of Hollings is he was regarded as a solid college te. There was more merit for his selection then Hollings. Casserly and company were unlucky with this pick because of injuries. They outsmarted themselves with Hollings.

3. Qb Dave Ragone

3rd round selection. Did he ever take a snap for the Texans? He was selected with Carr and Sage (or was it Banks) on the roster. He was picked because Casserly thought he could parlay Ragone into a 2nd round or 1st round selection down the road. Ragone was a luxury pick a playoff team gambles on. An expansion team desperate for more talent on the roster had no business picking him. Again the Texans outsmarted themselves here.

4. Olb Jason Babin

In a surprise move the Texans traded up into the first round and selected the bone chewing kid from western Michigan. He was sold to us as the next Kevin Green. Instead we got a guy who always had his back to the ball because all he knew how to do was an excruciatingly slow spin move. We did get some field production from Babin but it never lived up to his 1st round selection. Why do I rank him ahead of guys who performed arguably worse on the field you ask? Picking him cost us dearly with several picks when we needed talent the most. To magnify the problem we strengthened a division rival. Babin was a gamble we had to get right. We missed.

5. Dt Amobi Okoye

Lots of possible names could go here. We did get some production from him. He wins out as #5 on the worst list because he was picked higher then people like T Johnson, A Molden, or A Hill. We had high expectations for the brilliant youngster from Louisville. He had flashes his rookie season and then flat lined. He was one of the first big additions of the dismal frank bush era and the beginning of his downfall.

Post mortem:

Why isn't Carr on the list? Carr was a good college qb with great tools. You may recall the Texans were applauded by most nationally for taking Carr over Peppers. We all knew Peppers was going to be a monster but the Texans got a pass because quarterback is the most important position on the field...right? Things like "They're starting out the franchise right by getting the most talented qb available" were said by pundits everywhere. In hindsight we know Carr failed us. I think the Texans failed Carr just as much. I've said it before and it bares repeating - Carr was never going to be great, but he had a chance to be average. The bumbling idiots surrounding carr with bad talent and worse coaching sabotaged his career as much as Carr did.
Why is Joppru a bad pick ? He had miserable luck because of his injuries, but that was misfortune, terrible luck, whatever. The guy had no history of being chronically injured in college.
Now on the other hand, you got Hollings right, he was a really bad pick.

ChampionTexan
04-15-2013, 07:47 AM
He's a multi-year Pro-Bowler who was also voted All-Pro.

When was Babin voted All Pro?

BigBull17
04-15-2013, 10:17 AM
To me Okoye has to be higher. You left some serious talent on the board (Wilis and Revis) for a raw 19 year old kid. Its not even hind site because I think everybody knew that at least Wilis was going to be at worst solid. Tons of initial talent and even more upside. Hated the pick at the time and really hate it now. Just makes me sick.

And on Boselli, I think the risk was worth the reward. He was a hall of fame caliber LT if he recovered, so I am ok with taking a flyer on him. To me, as good as he was, Pitts was over drafted. He was a guy who would have possibly been around in the 3rd or 4th. It worked out but would have been even better value if he was taken later.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2013, 12:12 PM
When was Babin voted All Pro?

2010 with the Titans when he got 12.5 sacks and then again in 2011 with the Eagles when he got 18 sacks.

Vinny
04-15-2013, 12:30 PM
I think this franchise just started off with a doofus draft philosophy. Taking skill guys before linemen was just a brutal way to start a franchise. The first two picks could have set the tempo for a team building inside-out but instead we have to go for two shiny objects in year one. Chester Pitts was the only decent pick on the first day of that draft. So, I think the worst draft picks were the first two picks in franchise history.

David Carr - should have taken LT Bryant McKinnie or DE Julius Peppers
Gabbar Gaffney - Andre Gurode or LeCharles Bentley would have solidified our offensive line in year ONE. The Texans should have been more patient, but it is what it is.

Boselli got us Walker (he went to the Pro Bowl with us) and Payne so I don't consider him a "worst draft pick". I think the Texans ended up 16th in defense that year so those guys were important cogs. Boselli didn't cost us anything (since it was an expansion pick) except perhaps the consideration of drafting linemen early and often in our inaugural draft.

eriadoc
04-15-2013, 12:33 PM
What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?

Don't know how you picked my post to argue with, since I was essentially arguing that he doesn't deserve to be on a top 5 worst pick list. I have said more than once that the Texans misused him, and as a result of that film, it took a while for some team to finally cast him in a different role. At that point, he had success. And I argued as much while he was still a Texan.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2013, 12:34 PM
Why is Joppru a bad pick ? He had miserable luck because of his injuries, but that was misfortune, terrible luck, whatever. The guy had no history of being chronically injured in college.
Now on the other hand, you got Hollings right, he was a really bad pick.

With Joppru, I think it all depends on how the individual making up the list defines "bust".

If your definition of a "bust" is someone who is drafted high but never produces at the expected level, then Joppru is a bust because he was drafted relatively high and never saw the field.

If your definition of a "bust" is when the FO makes a bonehead mistake and drafts someone at a bad spot or if the guy was injured and not producing wasn't his "fault", then Joppru isn't a bust.

To me, it doesn't make any difference how talented the guy was or whether he had the potential to be great. If he doesn't produce anything on the field and he was drafted high, then he was a bust.

For me "bust" is mostly about the 1st 2 rounds. When you get down to the 3rd round, it's more iffy because on a good team, those guys aren't necessarily expected to move right in and be great. But also, a guys not a bust until he's given a few years to produce. So no one drafted from 2010 on should be classified as a bust. (I also wouldn't include expansion draft guys.)

So... with that definition, we really don't have a lot to work with. Only 30 picks. When I put all that together, I've got 6 guys I consider complete busts, 3 guys that are knocking on the door, and 2 guys on the bubble.

1. Charles Hill
2. Bennie Joppru
3. Dave Ragone
4. Tony Hollings
5. Travis Johnson
6. Vernand Morency

7. David Carr
8. Charles Spencer
9. Amobi Okoye

10. Seth Wand
11. Antwaun Molden

It hurt me to put Charles Spencer in there because he COULD have been a great tackle for us. But we only got a game out of him.

The thing that burns me the most about the Dave Ragone pick is that we took TWO QBs in the draft that year: Ragone and Henson. We couldn't have used those picks for guys who could have played? Really?

El Tejano
04-15-2013, 01:20 PM
Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.

The thing that was wrong about drafting Joppru was that Jason Witten was right there waiting for us at the time we drafted Joppru.

Hervoyel
04-15-2013, 02:20 PM
I don’t consider a pick a bad pick if it’s used on a player with no previous history of injury who later gets hurt. That’s why I can’t look at Bennie Joppru or Charles Spencer as bad picks. They weren’t bad picks. They were picks that turned out bad due to factors no one could have foreseen.

Honorable Mention: Dave Ragone

So exactly why did we need to take a QB in the 3rd round in our second year of existence when the team was filled with holes and any pick, at any position other than QB would have made more sense? And why exactly did we take this guy? Not only was he not capable of playing at this level (went to camp with the Rams and didn’t catch on with anyone, ever again) but we needed so much more help in so many more places. 3rd round picks were too valuable to pull this bull**** with in 2003. This is one of those early decisions that made you wonder about the Texans brain trust.

5. Antwaun Molden

Even as I type this I’m tempted to drop him down to 5 and bring Ragone up to 4. Molden was the guy you could never be sure about. Never sure about anything. Did he not pan out with the Texans or did the Texans fail to develop him? The world will never know but when we needed help in the defensive backfield as badly as we ever had and the cupboard was as empty as it possibly could have gotten Antwaun Molden couldn’t do jack **** here. He’s bounced from New England, to the Giants, and to Jacksonville since then so I’m inclined to think it’s Molden and not us. Granted he was a never could stay healthy guy and I said that I didn’t want to penalize picks for that but it’s not like he had a monster career-killing injury. Instead he had a collection of dings and dents that he couldn’t play through. In a league where everyone plays hurt when it matters he couldn’t. He hasn’t done anything anywhere else either. Waste of a 3rd round pick and an enormous disappointment.

4. Tony Hollings

This is what desperation does to people. They blow a 2nd rounder in a supplemental draft on a guy who goes on to knock out 149 yards total for a 3.0 yard average and never even sniffs the end zone. We picked up Hollings in 2002 when James Allen and Jonathan Wells proved incapable of reaching 4 yards per carry. Hollings didn’t even get on the field until 2003 and when he did he was nothing special. One year later Domanick Davis proved to be about 10 times the running back Hollings was and he came from the 4th round. Look at the second round of the 2003 draft and take in some of the guys who were still waiting to be picked. Guys like Osi Umenyiora, Anquan Boldin, Charles Tillman, Jon Stinchcomb, and E.J.Henderson were taken in that round. We ourselves took the ill-fated Bennie Joppru but we’d have had another shot at 2nd round success that year if we hadn’t stupidly blown our other pick on Tony Hollings. The 2002 line was a train wreck in pass protection and it was just as bad at run blocking. The answer was building an offensive line that could have made a difference (Stinchcomb) or drafting a stable mate for Andre Johnson (Boldin). Instead we put another mediocre back behind a lousy line. Good move.

3. Travis Johnson

What a pathetic scrub we managed to find in Travis Johnson. I remember screaming at the radio when Derrick Johnson was somehow still available with the 13th pick. Instead Charlie traded back to 16, gave up a shot at Jammal Brown (Texans didn’t need a LT did they?) and Derrick Johnson for the chance to pick up a guy who couldn’t bust out on a line as lousy as the Texans were in 2005. He did nothing the entire time he was here. A first round pick who gave us 2 sacks in 38 starts. Honestly now, was anyone excited when we drafted Travis Johnson? Anybody?

2. Amobi Okoye

Okoye being picked in 2007 was very much in the same vein as Travis Johnson in that we left a lot of talent on the board and instead took this guy. Unlike TJ though Okoye was a huge project. If memory serves he was only 11 years old when he started his first game for the Texans and every year he played here we got an update explaining that he wasn’t done growing and should really be in his “junior year of college” for example. He gave us 4 years, 11 sacks, and we got to watch him grow up and fall farther behind other players from his draft every year. This is why you don’t waste first round picks on projects who aren’t done growing up. Okoye was weak when compared to other NFL players and was easily pushed around by offensive linemen. I used to call him “The shopping cart”. What’s worse is he was taken before very obvious stars like Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis. Watching the Texans take him when so many “ready to play” players were waiting there was truly an epic WTF? Moment.

1. David Carr

Worst pick in franchise history. Set the team back easily 5 years and his inability to read a defense, remember where the line of scrimmage was, or sense pressure kept the Texans building and rebuilding their offensive line the entire time he was here. You build a football team from the lines out and Julius ****ing Peppers was standing there for the taking. It’s not possible to screw that up worse than the Texans did. Then they started him from day one no less. Assuming that David Carr could have ever become even half the player that the Texans seemed to think he was putting him out there from the very beginning was like buying an expensive Ming vase and then using it to decorate your local preschool playground. This is why I think Casserly, Capers, and Palmer should never again be able to make decisions on personnel in the NFL. Someone should always be there next to them with a “No, we’re not doing that” card. You know you have no offensive line. You know that they suck more than anyone could have ever imagined. You still put the most valuable asset you own (the guy that crap line is supposed to protect) out there and think he’s going to be ok? Then when it’s obvious that he’s not going to be ok you leave him there. Incredible.

HOU-TEX
04-15-2013, 02:32 PM
1. David
2. Carr
3. Carr's brother
4. Carr's dad
5. Carr's hair

Hervoyel
04-15-2013, 02:39 PM
1. David
2. Carr
3. Carr's brother
4. Carr's dad
5. Carr's hair


Well, yeah that would also be valid.

Blake
04-15-2013, 02:50 PM
Worst and or Most Hated Draft Picks:
1.) Bennie Joppru (Dissapointing to say the least)
2.) David Carr (Gave new meaning to the fetal position)
3.) Travis Johnson (Probably the reason the Texans want high class individuals ever after)
4.) Jacoby Jones (Never became the threat he was drafted to be.)
5.) Tony Hollings (Lost a 2nd round pick because of this no-show.)
6.) Jason Babin
7.) Seth Wand
8.) Charles Hill
9.) Matt Stevens
10.) Antwaun Molden


Best and or Favorite Draft Picks:
1.) Andre Johnson (The BP in Texans franchise history. Period)
2.) J.J. Watt (Is more than a great football player, a great person for the city)
3.) Duane Brown (Turned all nonbelievers into believers)
4.) Mario Williams (A stud when he wants to be. Potentially unblockable.)
5.) Domanick Davis (Made the early Texans offense watchable)
6.) Aaron Glenn (Made the early Texans defense watchable)
7.) Brian Cushing (Insane on the field. 3 down linebacker who always works hard)
8.) Drew Henson (Turned his sorry 6th round ass into a 3rd, Thanks Cowgirls)
9.) Brice McCain (6th round pick becoming a damn good cover corner)
10.) DeMeco Ryans (Captain of our defense during some tough years)

HOU-TEX
04-15-2013, 02:52 PM
Well, yeah that would also be valid.

Just thinking back on that entire era makes me kind of sad.

Dread-Head
04-15-2013, 03:34 PM
:thinking: Okay...I have to say the WORST draft decision the Texans ever made was a few years ago when they let me and Bill play special teams. Dumbest mistake they EVER made. I regret NOTHING!

ObsiWan
04-15-2013, 04:24 PM
When was Babin voted All Pro?

2010 with the Titans when he got 12.5 sacks and then again in 2011 with the Eagles when he got 18 sacks.

Correction:
Pro Bowl in 2010 and 2011.
All Pro in 2011.
Also #44 in the 100 best players of 2011
(whatever that means)

tru80texan
04-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Babin has been cut by the Texans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Eagles, played for 5 teams in 9 years and has had only 2 good seasons.

Babin is a bust.

Babin was not "cut" by the Texans or Chiefs. He was traded by the Texans to the Seahawks & left the Chiefs as a free agent after they signed him in November. It's hardly fair to say that he got a true opportunity in KC after being signed with the season nearly being over. Babin has gone on record that Seahawks never intended to give him an opportunity & he doesn't care for that franchise because of it. I feel the same was done here by Kubiak as Babin was not his player, per se, & it did seem there was a bit of a house cleaning here as kubiak & Smith tried to establish their identity w/ their players. So to be fair it seems Babin was misused by Capers, discarded by Kubiak for a mediocre player from Seatle, & then was never in Seatles plans. His time in KC was extremely short. He finally got a real opportunity in Tennessee, Philly, & Jacksonville & has had decent seasons producing 2 Pro Bowl seasons while being named an All Pro once. When used properly, 4-3 DE, & given an opportunity, Babin has produced & that hardly says "bust" to me. Even when he was cut by a Philly team that was obviously in disarray & then being picked up by the Jags he still produced 7 sacks. That's not to shabby for a "bust".

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2013, 05:25 PM
Babin was not "cut" by the Texans or Chiefs. He was traded by the Texans to the Seahawks & left the Chiefs as a free agent after they signed him in November. It's hardly fair to say that he got a true opportunity in KC after being signed with the season nearly being over. Babin has gone on record that Seahawks never intended to give him an opportunity & he doesn't care for that franchise because of it. I feel the same was done here by Kubiak as Babin was not his player, per se, & it did seem there was a bit of a house cleaning here as kubiak & Smith tried to establish their identity w/ their players. So to be fair it seems Babin was misused by Capers, discarded by Kubiak for a mediocre player from Seatle, & then was never in Seatles plans. His time in KC was extremely short. He finally got a real opportunity in Tennessee, Philly, & Jacksonville & has had decent seasons producing 2 Pro Bowl seasons while being named an All Pro once. When used properly, 4-3 DE, & given an opportunity, Babin has produced & that hardly says "bust" to me. Even when he was cut by a Philly team that was obviously in disarray & then being picked up by the Jags he still produced 7 sacks. That's not to shabby for a "bust".

I always liked Babin and I thought that in the right environment he'd be productive.

But he really burned some bridges with me when there was the DC change in Philly and he basically refused to do what they wanted him to do. They originally wanted him in that wide formation they were using but they were getting gouged in the run and wanted him to line up in a more standard way... and he refused.

But he's not a bust.

ObsiWan
04-15-2013, 05:26 PM
Worst and or Most Hated Draft Picks:
1.) Bennie Joppru (Dissapointing to say the least)
2.) David Carr (Gave new meaning to the fetal position)
3.) Travis Johnson (Probably the reason the Texans want high class individuals ever after)
4.) Jacoby Jones (Never became the threat he was drafted to be.)
5.) Tony Hollings (Lost a 2nd round pick because of this no-show.)
6.) Jason Babin
7.) Seth Wand
8.) Charles Hill
9.) Matt Stevens
10.) Antwaun Molden


Best and or Favorite Draft Picks:
1.) Andre Johnson (The BP in Texans franchise history. Period)
2.) J.J. Watt (Is more than a great football player, a great person for the city)
3.) Duane Brown (Turned all nonbelievers into believers)
4.) Mario Williams (A stud when he wants to be. Potentially unblockable.)
5.) Domanick Davis (Made the early Texans offense watchable)
6.) Aaron Glenn (Made the early Texans defense watchable)
7.) Brian Cushing (Insane on the field. 3 down linebacker who always works hard)
8.) Drew Henson (Turned his sorry 6th round ass into a 3rd, Thanks Cowgirls)
9.) Brice McCain (6th round pick becoming a damn good cover corner)
10.) DeMeco Ryans (Captain of our defense during some tough years)

I totally agree with your "Best/Most Favorite" list. Can't really argue with a single one of them. I might quibble with and remove Henson and put Kareem Jackson in his place. Reason?: K.J. is in the same category as Duane Brown as he went from prematurely declared bust (i.e., "bad pick") into a very solid player at his position.

Regarding your "worse" list I'd have to add Dave Ragone in there somewhere. I mean, we just picked Carr #1 overall the year before. We had an experienced backup in Tony Banks (I think he should have started for at least a year while Carr learned the ropes - but that's a different discussion). We're trying to make an expansion team more solid. Why the hell did we waste a third round pick on a guy who was never going to start?!? Dave Ragone, not David Carr is my all-time, number one, Worst Texans' draft pick. The pick itself made no sense and the guy never really saw the field. WTF??

At first I was thinking that Jacoby wasn't an awful a pick until you realize I realized that James Jones was picked by Green Bay about 5-6 picks later. This was another, "what were they thinking?" pick. Why take a chance on a track guy from a small school when there were other WRs out there with, arguably, better pedigrees. In addition to James Jones, Yamon Figurs and Jason Hill were just as fast (or faster) as Jacoby and were from Div I schools. The last thing a two-year old expansion team needed was to burn a first day pick on a long shot from a small school.

Not to rag on Jacoby because I wanted him to succeed as I want all Texans picks to succeed. But this is a look-back exercise, and looking back, this pick - given who else was available - was definitely questionable.

Lurvinator11
04-15-2013, 05:58 PM
Thank you everyone for this discussion. I am enjoying all of this debate over who is a bust and not. I obviously take the point of view that if a pick is taken high, and doesn't work out, it will be a bust. I never really considered the other views, but now it is something to take consideration of.

I still stand by my choices, but I do enjoy reading your opinions. I just want to say thanks again, because of all of this discussion, and users reading my post, it is my most viewed blog so far. Thanks again for that.

steelbtexan
04-15-2013, 07:27 PM
1bennie joppru
2jason babin
3travis johnson
4amobi okoye
5antoine caldwell


im not putting carr on here. he had all the tools.

And did nothing with them.

Hervoyel
04-15-2013, 07:46 PM
1bennie joppru
2jason babin
3travis johnson
4amobi okoye
5antoine caldwell


im not putting carr on here. he had all the tools.

Sure he did. He just misplaced the one between his ears.

Honoring Earl 34
04-15-2013, 08:26 PM
Sure he did. He just misplaced the one between his ears.

Here's his rookie card . I think he lacked more of something else .

http://anonandon.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/tinman.gif

Norg
04-16-2013, 01:07 PM
Alex Brink was a WTF PICK if u ask me even if it was a 7th round pick right ..???

The Pencil Neck
04-16-2013, 02:09 PM
Alex Brink was a WTF PICK if u ask me even if it was a 7th round pick right ..???

He wasn't who I expected and there were better guys available BUT... it's a 7th round flyer on a guy they thought they saw something they might be able to develop. That doesn't bother me at all.

Of course, the next pick was Steve Johnson of the Bills. I'd love to have him on our team at this point.

Goldensilence
04-16-2013, 08:47 PM
1. By far Picking Charlie Casserly as the GM of the franchise and his smarter than you "scouting"

2. Carr. Guy set the franchise back so long and really did not have the fire you would've liked to see in franchise QB.

3. Okoye, bar none the FO whiffed taking a 19 year old DL as opposed to a no brainer pick in Willis. I still remember the disappointment of this pick at the time like...just...wow.

4. Travis Johnson, massive reach and TERRIBLE fit, while there are picks I would've taken after TJ including DJ, none were clearly a non brainer like Willis.

5. For my money Molden, another high pick small school smarter than you pick.

For the record I don't get the Joppru bad pick, guy had some serious skills and it's really a tragedy the injuries he had prevented him from becoming anything more than a sideline cheerleader.

Honorable Mention: Hollings and Ragone.

5.

ObsiWan
04-16-2013, 09:09 PM
He wasn't who I expected and there were better guys available BUT... it's a 7th round flyer on a guy they thought they saw something they might be able to develop. That doesn't bother me at all.

Of course, the next pick was Steve Johnson of the Bills. I'd love to have him on our team at this point.

yeah... it makes one wonder who the hell scouts our WR prospects. We pass on Steve Johnson to pick up Alex Brink. We chose Jacoby Jones over James Jones and Mike Sims-Walker (although this may be a push). We pick David Anderson and the Saints grab Marques Colston with the very next pick....

I guess that's the old hindsight thing at work again....

powda
04-16-2013, 11:15 PM
1. By far Picking Charlie Casserly as the GM of the franchise and his smarter than you "scouting"


WINNER!

Damn it. Now I have to change my list. "HEY!"

htownfan32
04-17-2013, 01:15 PM
What about Jabar Gaffney? I realize he wasn't a bust, but... he never did anything for the Texans when he played.

ChampionTexan
04-17-2013, 03:13 PM
What about Jabar Gaffney? I realize he wasn't a bust, but... he never did anything for the Texans when he played.

The reason I hated the Gaffney pick was because I was screaming for Clinton Portis when they made it. Believing you know more about NFL football players than your team's GM does isn't a fun way to be a fan.

Norg
04-17-2013, 03:57 PM
jocbey jones turned out to be a pro bowl pick just not for us ....

Yankee_In_TX
04-17-2013, 04:04 PM
[QUOTE=powda;2150884]Bennie joppru has to be in the conversation. QUOTE]

Every year he didn't play I was shocked he was still on the roster the next year.

Lurvinator11
04-23-2013, 01:22 AM
http://houstontexanfansr.blogspot.com/2013/04/nflcom-top-5-best-and-worst-draft-picks.html

NFL.com released their top 5 best and worst list. The original list is linked in my blog, along with my reaction. A little bit of language in it, but I feel it is worth it.

Trust me. You will be upset with the top 5 best pick list.

kingtexan
04-23-2013, 11:07 AM
Trust me. You will be upset with the top 5 best pick list.

Yeah they need to put AJ in place of Ryans.

eriadoc
04-23-2013, 01:11 PM
What about Jabar Gaffney? I realize he wasn't a bust, but... he never did anything for the Texans when he played.

In four years with the Texans, Gaffney had 171 catches for 2009 yards, for an avg of 11.75 yards. One of those years was the dreadful 2005 season, his last as a Texan. In 2004, he caught 41 balls for 642 yards. AJ caught 79 for 1142. That's not a half bad tandem, considering who they had at QB. Gaffney could have been a decent #2, IMO. He shouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round, but if you look at what Gaffney has gone on to do, he's kind of a prototypical second fiddle guy. Two years ago, he had 68 catches for 947 yards. Three years ago, he had 65 for 875. He had 21 catches in the playoffs alone for NE one year.

If you take Gaffney's best five years and Walter's best five years, you pretty much have the same WR. People around here say that Walter was a good #2 for a couple years and then just fell off. Well, consider this:

Walter's best 5 years - 270 rec, 3449 yards, 12.8 avg, 21 TD, 175 first downs. Schaub all 5 years, with some Rosenfels and Yates. He only had one more year worth noting.

Gaffney's best 5 years - 264 rec, 3635 yds, 13.8 avg, 16 TD, 183 first downs. Gaffney had two to three other seasons that were roughly comparable with his 5th best season, by my estimation. In 11 years, he has two seasons with less than 34 catches. His QBs for the five years I counted were Carr x1, Brady x1, and Orton x3, injuries and subs notwithstanding. I'm sure there were some Tony Banks games and Matt Cassel games.

The only significant difference I see is C&C spent a 2nd round pick on Gaffney and Smithiak spent a 6th rounder (IIRC) on Walter in a trade. Guys can't help what teams spend on them, so I tend not to hold that against the players that much.

TEXANRED
04-23-2013, 02:21 PM
How the Hell do you have a top 5 Texans draft list and include Ryans and Daniels but no AJ? WTF? Who ever wrote this article should be drug out in the streat and beaten.

eriadoc
04-23-2013, 02:26 PM
Here's the list (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000162231/article/houston-texans-best-and-worst-draft-picks) on NFL.com. They have commentary for each pick. The bare bones list is:

Brown
Daniels
Ryans
Cushing
Watt

I would assume that Watt is #1 and Brown is #5, but it's hard to assume anything when they left off AJ. They do mention AJ in the Daniels summary:

If the David Carr experiment was ever going to work for the Texans, they needed to (a) protect him better and (b) give him offensive weapons. Grabbing receiver Andre Johnson in the franchise's second-ever draft was a great start, and had he not been the third-overall pick he would have made this list.

TEXANRED
04-23-2013, 02:31 PM
Here's the list (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000162231/article/houston-texans-best-and-worst-draft-picks) on NFL.com. They have commentary for each pick. The bare bones list is:

Brown
Daniels
Ryans
Cushing
Watt

I would assume that Watt is #1 and Brown is #5, but it's hard to assume anything when they left off AJ. They do mention AJ in the Daniels summary:
That commentary doesn't even make sense. What does being the 3rd overall pick have anything to do it with it? By that logic Carr should be disqualified.

Rey
04-23-2013, 02:33 PM
Looks like they are going off of value in regards to where they were picked.

AJ was probably a no brainer. I think most people could have made that pick....I think the list is aiming at truly working to find players...

The guys that made the list didn't have to be chosen where they were and they weren't virtual locks to be chosen where we took them.

ThaJokaa
04-23-2013, 03:20 PM
Looks like they are going off of value in regards to where they were picked.

AJ was probably a no brainer. I think most people could have made that pick....I think the list is aiming at truly working to find players...

The guys that made the list didn't have to be chosen where they were and they weren't virtual locks to be chosen where we took them.

Not the lions...

Dutchrudder
04-23-2013, 03:23 PM
That commentary doesn't even make sense. What does being the 3rd overall pick have anything to do it with it? By that logic Carr should be disqualified.

No it's the opposite. Carr should be listed as a bad pick because the higher the pick, the more likely the player is to be a great player. That's why all of their bad picks are first rounders, the failure is magnified in higher rounds. AJ being third pick and becoming who he is now isn't as significant as Duane Brown at #27 becoming a great LT (though I think AJ should be listed over Ryans). Teams are supposed to hit on top 10 picks, so it lessens the greatness of the pick. The Colts aren't exactly geniuses for picking Peyton and Luck #1 overall, but the Raiders are morons for taking Jamarcus Russell #1.

kingtexan
04-23-2013, 07:44 PM
ESPN had Carr 3rd worst #1 QB ever taken, with Vick #4.

George 5th
Couch 2nd
Russell 1st

eriadoc
04-23-2013, 07:56 PM
ESPN had Carr 3rd worst #1 QB ever taken, with Vick #4.

George 5th
Couch 2nd
Russell 1st

That's letting one draft spot exclude Ryan Leaf, who was worse than even Russell, I think. Or maybe they're tied for worst ever.

Vance87
04-24-2013, 02:11 AM
Looks like they are going off of value in regards to where they were picked.

AJ was probably a no brainer. I think most people could have made that pick....I think the list is aiming at truly working to find players...

The guys that made the list didn't have to be chosen where they were and they weren't virtual locks to be chosen where we took them.

No, they're just stupid. Indy's list has Peyton AND Luck in the top 5 best picks.

ObsiWan
04-24-2013, 11:59 AM
No, they're just stupid. Indy's list has Peyton AND Luck in the top 5 best picks.

Well in that case, at a minimum, they're being inconsistent. The Luck pick was considered as much of a "no-brainer" as A.J. was when he was picked. Now you could make a very weak argument that there was somewhat of a choice between Peyton and Leaf back then.

But I'm with you, they're just stupid.

Txn_in_FL
04-25-2013, 01:40 AM
I can't make Carr my number one worst because in a different situation he may have been okay.

Not Joppru's fault he was hurt all the time. Wasted talent and never know what we might have had.

Okoye is my number one worst pick. Sorry, but you don't burn your first round pick on a prospect. Who we passed on is always a kick in the balls as well. Travis Johnson runs a close second for me.

Number one best has always be Andre. Watt is making a serious run at the spot though.