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ASidd_1990
04-12-2013, 11:29 AM
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-2-0-texans-get-a-weapon/

27. Houston - Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame: If the board falls this way, the Texans would have to strongly consider taking Eifert at this spot. Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith are from a system that has rarely valued the WR position as a 1st round pick dating back to their Denver days and I’m not sure that is going to change this year despite their massive need at that position. Eifert is a very effective pass catcher who would often line up split out at WR at Notre Dame. He’s more fluid in space than of the other TEs the Texans have, but he would need to convince the Texans he could become a serviceable blocker since they don’t carry TEs who don’t block at all. If the Texans were to draft Eifert, that would mean they could strongly consider cutting Owen Daniels after 2013 and clearing some cap space in an effort to get Brian Cushing’s new deal done and maybe even J.J. Watt’s. Safety is a possibility in this spot and I’m sure they will definitely have Datone Jones and Margus Hunt on their board as well since Antonio Smith’s contract is up after 2013 and both Jones and Hunt are good fits in Wade Phillips’ 1-gap scheme.

Sigh another TE?

:kubepalm:

ThaShark316
04-12-2013, 11:41 AM
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-2-0-texans-get-a-weapon/



Sigh another TE?

:kubepalm:

Eifert?

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/16/W-7Bu_WTNU-GOJYgcztIsw2.jpg

I've been calling for a BAD ASS TE alongside Mr. Daniels for a while, so this would be glorious.

Dutchrudder
04-12-2013, 11:43 AM
Well if you're of the opinion that Schaub's noodle arm can't make the long throws, an short to intermediate target that can catch and block would be ideal. I wouldn't be upset with Eifert, he will be a much better TE than OD is right now.

76Texan
04-12-2013, 12:02 PM
I've been reviewing the Texans and Saints pre-season tapes.

One of the 3 guys (Brock, Byrne, or Supernaw), I think, will probably make the squad next year - my ranking is in that order.

The highest I think the Texans will use on a TE is probably the third round.
However, given the shortage at the top end, it's more likely that they will use a later pick, if at all. My guess is a guy with pass-catching ability (but lacking in the blocking department such that his draft stock is depressed.)

beerlover
04-12-2013, 12:17 PM
how could Texans pass on Cordarrelle Patterson?

:hankpalm:

ChampionTexan
04-12-2013, 12:20 PM
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-2-0-texans-get-a-weapon/



Sigh another TE?

:kubepalm:

The Texans didn't draft a TE in either '11 or '12, and with OD's age and injury history, I'd have no problem with Eifert.

powda
04-12-2013, 12:21 PM
As much as I love LZ...puke.

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2013, 12:22 PM
As someone who wanted us to take Fleener last year, I wouldn't be totally opposed to Eifert.

But I'm expecting us to draft defense first.

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2013, 12:25 PM
OK.

I just looked over this mock. And, granted, I haven't been able to educate myself on this year's draft like I've tried to do the past few years but...

We take Eifert over Patterson or Ogletree? Really?

I'm not seeing that.

Doppelganger
04-12-2013, 12:27 PM
how could Texans pass on Cordarrelle Patterson?

:hankpalm:

Austin at 9?
Hopkins at 25?

Eifert is a good player, but I question this selection. For this to happen the Texans would have to pass on Keenan Allen, Cordarelle Patterson, and Alec Ogletree. If those 4 were available to me I would probably rank them:

1. Patterson
2. Allen
3. Ogletree
4. Eifert.

Rey
04-12-2013, 12:29 PM
Ogletree would not be a good pick for us IMO. Not a fan.

But passing over Patterson would suck.

I like Eifert, but I'm not down with that selection. Would rather a trade down if there was a partner or...I dunno...Taking the dynamic receiver that fell into our laps..

Rey
04-12-2013, 12:36 PM
Well if you're of the opinion that Schaub's noodle arm can't make the long throws, an short to intermediate target that can catch and block would be ideal. I wouldn't be upset with Eifert, he will be a much better TE than OD is right now.

I wouldn't be pissed with the TE selection....

But how much longer is Schaub going to be around?? Do we want to pass on a possible Andre replacement down the road because Schaub may or may not be able to fully utilize their skill set?

I don't know....

If Eifert makes us that much better right now, then I maybe we should grit and bare it...

IDEXAN
04-12-2013, 12:42 PM
how could Texans pass on Cordarrelle Patterson?

:hankpalm:
LZ doesn't have anybody in the first round taking Patterson, so I'm thinking he just had a mental lapse, maybe had to rush too much to make a deadline.

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2013, 12:46 PM
LZ doesn't have anybody in the first round taking Patterson, so I'm thinking he just had a mental lapse, maybe had to rush too much to make a deadline.

He actually mentions Patterson at one point, so... it was a conscious decision on his part to have him fall.

76Texan
04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't be pissed with the TE selection....

But how much longer is Schaub going to be around?? Do we want to pass on a possible Andre replacement down the road because Schaub may or may not be able to fully utilize their skill set?

I don't know....

If Eifert makes us that much better right now, then I maybe we should grit and bare it...

There aren't enough balls to go around for three TEs.
Granted, Graham's contract will be up after this season, but whatever new contract he's going to sign should probably be less than the $2M per that a first rounder @27 will require.

If he balls out, the better; however, with the way the Texans spread the ball, AJ, OD and Foster should get a lot of targets.

The added value for an Eifert, IMO, would not be enough to warrants a first round pick at TE.

Brisco_County
04-12-2013, 01:20 PM
Draft Countdown made the same pick for Houston.

It’s time for the Texans to begin thinking about the long-term future of their passing attack because Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels are all on the wrong side of thirty. The situation at tight end might be most dire because Daniels has always struggled to stay healthy and James Casey bolted as a free agent. Tyler Eifert of Notre Dame is a matchup nightmare with a large frame, excellent athleticism, enough speed to get down the seam, reliable hands and outstanding body control and ball skills. The addition of Eifert would help ensure the continued success of Houston’s already potent passing attack, especially in the red zone. Zach Ertz of Stanford could be another alternative. If it’s a wide receiver that Houston wants there should be plenty of enticing options at this point, possibly including Keenan Allen of Cal, DeAndre Hopkins of Clemson and Justin Hunter of Tennessee. Don’t completely rule out a quarterback either because Schaub isn’t getting any younger and similar move worked out pretty well for the Packers when they chose Aaron Rodgers despite the presence of Brett Favre. There is room for an upgrade at right tackle too and it wouldn’t hurt to add some depth along the defensive line and at linebacker either.

Link (http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php).

I would oppose this selection. I understand the philosophy of Best Available Player, but sometimes you do not have a choice. We have --literally-- no one next to Cushing. WR#2 is practically vacant, as is a third OLB for rotation.

As always though, I'd have to reserve judgement until the end of the season. It's just difficult to be excited over this pick.

nero THE zero
04-12-2013, 01:40 PM
I wouldn't be pissed with the TE selection....

But how much longer is Schaub going to be around?? Do we want to pass on a possible Andre replacement down the road because Schaub may or may not be able to fully utilize their skill set?
I don't know....

If Eifert makes us that much better right now, then I maybe we should grit and bare it...

Next year's WR crop will have several elite talents (i.e. Brandon Coleman, Marquise Lee, and Sammy Watkins).

I don't know that this is the year to look for Andre's replacement rather than a sufficient WR2.

EVOLVIST
04-12-2013, 01:41 PM
Draft Countdown made the same pick for Houston.



Link (http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php).

I would oppose this selection. I understand the philosophy of Best Available Player, but sometimes you do not have a choice. We have --literally-- no one next to Cushing. WR#2 is practically vacant, as is a third OLB for rotation.

As always though, I'd have to reserve judgement until the end of the season. It's just difficult to be excited over this pick.

Exactly! And that's why I'm here in the first 3 rounds:

1.) Kevin Minter – ILB – LSU
2.) Da'Rick Rogers – WR – Tennessee Tech
3.) Corey Lemonier – OLB – Auburn
3.) Jordan Reed – TE – Florida

Might flip-flop Reed with Lemonier, but same difference...and I think they'll be there at those spots.

IDEXAN
04-12-2013, 01:43 PM
He actually mentions Patterson at one point, so... it was a conscious decision on his part to have him fall.
Maybe, but that's still surprising to me.
I watched some tape on Patterson and he's very, very gifted, as a matter of fact almost too much so because he's got what I would call a "Reggie Bush-complex" in the sense that he repeatedly tries and often succeeds in doubling back on many plays to outrun the defense. This was something that Bush did in college, but it seemed to take years for him to understand he couldn't do that in the NFL like college because of the difference in speed of the defenses.
But this Patterson does everything on the offense including running the ball (reverses), kick returns, and of course pass receiving. He's an elite athlete and if the Texans had him at 27 (and it ain't gonna happen), I'd be stunned and really pizzed if they passed on him.

Porky
04-12-2013, 02:01 PM
WR is deeper than TE (imo) so I'm down with this pick. TE is a need at this point. Laugh all you want, but what TE have we drafted in the last couple of years? And we've lost two good ones - count em two in the last two years.

We could pick up a god WR in rd 2 or 3. But I could also see a WR, a safety, or a LB too at #1. If there is a trade partner, I wouldn't mind picking up an extra #3 which could be a good spot for an ILB or safety.

HOU-TEX
04-12-2013, 02:21 PM
He actually mentions Patterson at one point, so... it was a conscious decision on his part to have him fall.

Maybe because of his sloppy technique running routes. He's pretty electric once the ball's in his hands, but considering Kubiak's love for running perfect routes and being in the right place at the right time...I don't see us targeting him.

Rey
04-12-2013, 02:23 PM
Next year's WR crop will have several elite talents (i.e. Brandon Coleman, Marquise Lee, and Sammy Watkins).

I don't know that this is the year to look for Andre's replacement rather than a sufficient WR2.

If they are elite talents then they shouldn't make it to our pick.

Hence the key word "possible"...

There are some very talented guys in this crop that will likely fall due to various concerns.

Rey
04-12-2013, 02:26 PM
Maybe because of his sloppy technique running routes. He's pretty electric once the ball's in his hands, but considering Kubiak's love for running perfect routes and being in the right place at the right time...I don't see us targeting him.

If we don't have coaches that can teach guys how to run routes better then what are they here for...

kingtexan
04-12-2013, 02:27 PM
I wouldn't be pissed with the TE selection....

But how much longer is Schaub going to be around?? Do we want to pass on a possible Andre replacement down the road because Schaub may or may not be able to fully utilize their skill set?

I don't know....

If Eifert makes us that much better right now, then I maybe we should grit and bare it...

I don't see any AJ replacement in this years draft. If we went TE it would make more sense based on Matt's arm strength, or lack thereof. But based on also needing help at LB, OL, DL, and DB, I hope they simply go BPA.

Rey
04-12-2013, 02:27 PM
There aren't enough balls to go around for three TEs.
Granted, Graham's contract will be up after this season, but whatever new contract he's going to sign should probably be less than the $2M per that a first rounder @27 will require.

If he balls out, the better; however, with the way the Texans spread the ball, AJ, OD and Foster should get a lot of targets.

The added value for an Eifert, IMO, would not be enough to warrants a first round pick at TE.

I don't disagree with that at all...

Rey
04-12-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't see any AJ replacement in this years draft.

That mindset is baffling.

If you don't see WR's in this draft that could possibly be number one receivers then I don't know what to tell you.

If you're holding out for another prospect like Andre or Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Green in Cincy don't hold your breath. We likely won't be drafting that high for a while.

HOU-TEX
04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
If we don't have coaches that can teach guys how to run routes better then what are they here for...

Do we know it's coaching? Justin Hunter, his teammate, is one of the best route runners in this years draft.

Coaching? Eh, maybe not...

The Pencil Neck
04-12-2013, 02:47 PM
Do we know it's coaching? Justin Hunter, his teammate, is one of the best route runners in this years draft.

Coaching? Eh, maybe not...

College coaches don't get to spend as much time with these guys as a pro coach does.

I think Rey's point was that with all of Patterson's talent our coaches should be good enough to teach him how to run his routes correctly.

Doppelganger
04-12-2013, 02:48 PM
That mindset is baffling.

If you don't see WR's in this draft that could possibly be number one receivers then I don't know what to tell you.

If you're holding out for another prospect like Andre or Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Green in Cincy don't hold your breath. We likely won't be drafting that high for a while.

Even if you get that kind of high pick you have to be there the year that kind of guy becomes available. It is next to impossible to get another Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, etc.

San Francisco is still waiting for the next Jerry Rice.
Dallas is still waiting for the next Michael Irvin.
Chicago is still waiting for the next Walter Payton.

HOU-TEX
04-12-2013, 02:57 PM
College coaches don't get to spend as much time with these guys as a pro coach does.

I think Rey's point was that with all of Patterson's talent our coaches should be good enough to teach him how to run his routes correctly.

Maybe so, but how long are we willing to wait if it is a coachable problem? We all know how anal Kubiak is when it comes to his offense. Players like Foster, Brandon Brooks, Posey, etc never even see the field offensively until they learn and run the offense the way he wants it. Being a 1st rounder, I'd expect them contributing from day 1.

Who knows who's right? It's a crapshoot, but I'd think my chances would be better going defense in the 1st.

Doppelganger
04-12-2013, 03:15 PM
Maybe so, but how long are we willing to wait if it is a coachable problem? We all know how anal Kubiak is when it comes to his offense. Players like Foster, Brandon Brooks, Posey, etc never even see the field offensively until they learn and run the offense the way he wants it. Being a 1st rounder, I'd expect them contributing from day 1.

Who knows who's right? It's a crapshoot, but I'd think my chances would be better going defense in the 1st.

Outside of AJ the available WR options at the start of the season are:

Martin: a slot receiver
LeStar jean: hasn't shown enough in 2 years.
Jeff Maehl: bounced between practice squad and roster.
Some random FA WR the Texans will sign after the draft.

Based on that, Patterson WOULD start from Day 1 as WR #2. Posey is injured and Patterson is better than Jean or Maehl or the unnamed FA WR. They don't need Patterson to be a superstar in year 1, they just need him to catch around 40 balls and get a few touchdowns. He can certainly do that.

Scooter
04-12-2013, 04:15 PM
no thanks. we have a very good #1 tight end, and a solid #2 ... this is a position that could use depth, not a starter. with good talent still available at need positions like wide receiver and linebacker, we'd be be crazy to pass them up in favor of a guy who has to surpass two players to see any meaningful time on the field.

steelbtexan
04-12-2013, 04:41 PM
Maybe because of his sloppy technique running routes. He's pretty electric once the ball's in his hands, but considering Kubiak's love for running perfect routes and being in the right place at the right time...I don't see us targeting him.

This would be our loss.

He will be ready to be AJ's replacement when father time catches up with AJ. Until then Patterson is a threat to take it to the house any time the ball is in his hands. Is Patterson a mensa candidate? No, but neither is/was AJ as a rookie.

I'm a draft Short in the 1st guy, but if patterson falls to the Texans at 27 the pick is a no brainer. IMHO

steelbtexan
04-12-2013, 04:43 PM
Maybe so, but how long are we willing to wait if it is a coachable problem? We all know how anal Kubiak is when it comes to his offense. Players like Foster, Brandon Brooks, Posey, etc never even see the field offensively until they learn and run the offense the way he wants it. Being a 1st rounder, I'd expect them contributing from day 1.

Who knows who's right? It's a crapshoot, but I'd think my chances would be better going defense in the 1st.

Sounds like that's Gary's problem.

steelbtexan
04-12-2013, 04:52 PM
Do we know it's coaching? Justin Hunter, his teammate, is one of the best route runners in this years draft.

Coaching? Eh, maybe not...

Trust me I saw quite a bit of Vol football this yr. Dooley was in way over his head. He only got the Tennessee job because of his family name and he failed miserably. Look at his record vs the talent on the squad, it speaks vo9lumes.

Unless everybody with talent was overrated and Dooley was able to coach them up. LOL

Dooley was quite possibly the wosrt college HC that I've seen in a while. Dooley vs/ Saban/Muschamp/Richt/Mullen, even Miles = LOL

Rey
04-12-2013, 06:57 PM
Do we know it's coaching? Justin Hunter, his teammate, is one of the best route runners in this years draft.

Coaching? Eh, maybe not...

PN was right...I was saying that our coaches should be able to coach him up to a certain degree...

Patterson has only had one year with a big time program...

He came from JUCO...Not to say that you can't get good coaching in JUCO, but I'm willing to bet that NFL coaching is better...

76Texan
04-12-2013, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't say that Hunter is among the top five route runner, not even sure about top ten. If he was, he would have been all the rave; just saying.

Wolf6151
04-12-2013, 07:48 PM
A stud TE would be nice if we didn't already have OD on the roster and I don't remember how much guaranteed money we still owe him, so TE in the 1st isn't likely. I also think we have to many needs to fill to be drafting a TE in the 1st or using a BPA approach to this draft.

badboy
04-12-2013, 08:05 PM
A stud TE would be nice if we didn't already have OD on the roster and I don't remember how much guaranteed money we still owe him, so TE in the 1st isn't likely. I also think we have to many needs to fill to be drafting a TE in the 1st or using a BPA approach to this draft.$3.5 million in bonus against $ 8.5 m salary.

Texaninlild
04-12-2013, 09:41 PM
I think the Texans are more likely to go TE in the first than WR given the history. I think a 2 TE set would be ideal for Schuaby, but we had Casey and never used him appropriately so I question if Kubes would adapt the offense to that style?? I still do not see a WR coming off the board for us until Rd2 or 3 IMO.

Everything I read on Ogletree is that he is an accident waiting to happen and stuck on stupid, however well he scores athletically. I would love to see another stud ILB though next to Cush.

I still like the raw athleticism I see in Hunt. Watt 2.0 possibly... Just imagine QBs trying to get throws off with the giant white swatters on both sides. :swatter:

Lucky
04-12-2013, 11:54 PM
I think the Texans are more likely to go TE in the first than WR given the history.
Why? Smithiak haven't taken a TE higher than the 4th round (or a WR higher than the 3rd round). I don't see any history that leans one way or the other.

The history I see is the Texans drafting best player available....at a need position. 2008, the Texans really needed a LT. Duane Brown. 2010, they needed a CB. Kareem Jackson. Of course, there's usually more than one need. You can make a case that WR, ILB, RT, or even OLB are needs. So that would give them some flexibility at which position they select in the 1st round.

TE? Sure, they need one. But someone to compete for the 3rd spot. Not a starter, or even someone that competes as a starter. If you are going by Texans history, TE doesn't make sense in the 1st round at all.

76Texan
04-13-2013, 12:15 AM
Why? Smithiak haven't taken a TE higher than the 4th round (or a WR higher than the 3rd round). I don't see any history that leans one way or the other.

The history I see is the Texans drafting best player available....at a need position. 2008, the Texans really needed a LT. Duane Brown. 2010, they needed a CB. Kareem Jackson. Of course, there's usually more than one need. You can make a case that WR, ILB, RT, or even OLB are needs. So that would give them some flexibility at which position they select in the 1st round.

TE? Sure, they need one. But someone to compete for the 3rd spot. Not a starter, or even someone that competes as a starter. If you are going by Texans history, TE doesn't make sense in the 1st round at all.
I concur.

mussop
04-13-2013, 04:39 AM
no thanks. we have a very good #1 tight end, and a solid #2 ... this is a position that could use depth, not a starter. with good talent still available at need positions like wide receiver and linebacker, we'd be be crazy to pass them up in favor of a guy who has to surpass two players to see any meaningful time on the field.

That starter is getti g up in age and makes too much money and gets hurt a lot. A TE at 27 would automatically be our best TE and get plenty of playing time. Also would allow us to let Daniels go next year and use the Money to to extend Cushing and Watt.

Also graham hasn't really shown too much. Now that Casey is gone if one of them goes down our offense will really suffer.

However this is a very deep draft for TE so I would rather wait till later to get one too.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-13-2013, 04:47 AM
Hunt would be a nice pick for us. We can draft WR in 2nd or 3rd rd where still talented prospects should be available.

mussop
04-13-2013, 04:48 AM
This would be our loss.

He will be ready to be AJ's replacement when father time catches up with AJ. Until then Patterson is a threat to take it to the house any time the ball is in his hands. Is Patterson a mensa candidate? No, but neither is/was AJ as a rookie.

I'm a draft Short in the 1st guy, but if patterson falls to the Texans at 27 the pick is a no brainer. IMHO

Agree on all points. Even if he needs to be coached up on route running, there are ways of getting the ball in his hands. It's not like Walter was a great route runner. Kubiak can scheme a guy open enough.

I would even let him return kicks. He is a threat to score everytime he touches the ball. That alone would make teams have to focus on him. That's what is really important anyway right? Someone to take some of the attention of of Andre.

mussop
04-13-2013, 12:00 PM
Would like to add that neither Eifert nor Ertz are just a TE. Both are capable and have lined up in-line, in the slot and outside the numbers. They are both matchup nightmares because they are really giant WR's who know how to get open and know how to catch the ball at it's highest point over defenders.

I'm not sure there is a WR in this draft that could come in and produce more faster than either one of these guys. Both are safer picks than ANY WR in this draft for sure.

76Texan
04-13-2013, 12:11 PM
Like I said, there are only so many balls to throw around.
With OD and Graham on the team and the way we like to get the ball to AJ and Foster (or any RB that can catch the ball, including Tate), another TE is not going to add much value to the outcome of the game.

Don't forget that I was the one who touted Eifert as the number one TE to watch since last year.

I really want the Texans to trade away the first round for a future first and something like a second or a third this year.

There will be some great player at the top half of the first next year that we'll have to trade up if we want them; real game changers.

Trading out of the first, you can still get some added value with that second or third rounder this year.

The team that get our first could package two first rounders to move up to the top to get the guy they want to win now, so it's not out of the equation, really.

Do it Rick!

Brisco_County
04-13-2013, 12:14 PM
From the comments section of the post, Lance's explanation regarding Patterson falling out of the first round:

League source who has given me incredibly accurate info that has appeared in this blog for 5 years told me Patterson could very well fall out of the first round. When he says something like that, I listen. He was the one telling me to put Bruce Irvin in the 1st round when nobody else had that last year.

My thoughts: No one in the media is in the room during player interviews, and they don't have much visibility to some important aspects until after the draft. If you have a reliable source who does have visibility, then that information has a lot of influence.

mussop
04-13-2013, 12:18 PM
From the comments section of the post, Lance's explanation regarding Patterson falling out of the first round:

I've heard that he has had some really bad interviews.

Rey
04-13-2013, 12:22 PM
From the comments section of the post, Lance's explanation regarding Patterson falling out of the first round:



My thoughts: No one in the media is in the room during player interviews, and they don't have much visibility to some important aspects until after the draft. If you have a reliable source who does have visibility, then that information has a lot of influence.

Ummmmm....I had Irvin in the first last year...

I doubt Patterson falls out of the first round, but regardless I wouldn't want to pass him up for a TE.

mussop
04-13-2013, 12:26 PM
Like I said, there are only so many balls to throw around.
With OD and Graham on the team and the way we like to get the ball to AJ and Foster (or any RB that can catch the ball, including Tate), another TE is not going to add much value to the outcome of the game.

Don't forget that I was the one who touted Eifert as the number one TE to watch since last year.

I really want the Texans to trade away the first round for a future first and something like a second or a third this year.

There will be some great player at the top half of the first next year that we'll have to trade up if we want them; real game changers.

Trading out of the first, you can still get some added value with that second or third rounder this year.

The team that get our first could package two first rounders to move up to the top to get the guy they want to win now, so it's not out of the equation, really.

Do it Rick!

Disagree about the TE's but 1000000 X agree with the trade down. I have been banging the table for that since I started looking into this draft months ago. A first next year and another top 120 pick this year would be an incredible win.

Don't see it happening but there could be no better scenario for this draft.

mussop
04-13-2013, 12:32 PM
Ummmmm....I had Irvin in the first last year...

I doubt Patterson falls out of the first round, but regardless I wouldn't want to pass him up for a TE.

Define TE. What is the difference between TE and WR to you? This isn't the 80's. TE's Like these guys are blown up WR's. They aren't guys that are limited to lining up next to OT's and just run short routes over the middle.

Rey
04-13-2013, 01:13 PM
Define TE. What is the difference between TE and WR to you? This isn't the 80's. TE's Like these guys are blown up WR's. They aren't guys that are limited to lining up next to OT's and just run short routes over the middle.

This is not groundbreaking news that te's sometimes split out.

That's really not relevant though because your assertion that they are blown up wr's is incorrect. They are te's. They might be more versatile than some end of the line strictly te's but no TE can replace what a true wr brings, otherwise they wouldn't be te's they'd be wr's.

A true wr with speed and play making ability has run after the catch ability, field stretching ability....and....speed...

If we wanted a wr/TE type player we could have just kept Walter. But he doesn't do the things that we need from a second WR. Catch short routes and turn them into big gains...take the top of the defense...


No one is saying te's like Gronk and Hernandez aren't valuable and don't cause tons of problems for defenses, but considering this teams specific problems te's are much further down the list in comparison to more skill and playmaking at the wr position.

Also, let's not forget that dre hasn't been the healthiest guy. And he's another year older. Right now he's the only guy that can even be counted on to do anything at the wr position.

If we didn't have two capable te's already...sure. But that isn't the case and not often do you have this many high ability we'd projected to be around this late in the draft whereas te's rarely go very high. We can get another versatile TE later in this draft or next year pretty easily.

76Texan
04-13-2013, 01:48 PM
Dang, I was looking forward to watch the guys from Washington - Seferian-Jenkins (6'6 a 260 something) play next year, but he just got suspended indefinitely for DUI with his car in the ditch.

Just a sophomore, and he had over 100 catches already.
What a waste!

Wolf6151
04-13-2013, 04:57 PM
$3.5 million in bonus against $ 8.5 m salary.

I like Rick Smith as a GM, but this was a bad contract for the Texans. Folks wonder why we don't have any money in FA this year, contracts like this one are the reason why... I like OD, but from a financial standpoint a 1st round TE would make sense even though we have other much bigger team needs.

ChampionTexan
04-13-2013, 05:29 PM
I like Rick Smith as a GM, but this was a bad contract for the Texans. Folks wonder why we don't have any money in FA this year, contracts like this one are the reason why... I like OD, but from a financial standpoint a 1st round TE would make sense even though we have other much bigger team needs.

It's not as bad as his post made it look (Noc clue where $8.5 Million came from).

His 2013 salary is an even $4 Million, and with $1.75 of amortized bonus, it's a $5.75 Million cap hit. Not cheap by any means, but not quite as bad as the post you quoted indicated.

Edit: okay - he was including both remining years of his contract - not just 2013.

mussop
04-13-2013, 08:30 PM
This is not groundbreaking news that te's sometimes split out.

That's really not relevant though because your assertion that they are blown up wr's is incorrect. They are te's. They might be more versatile than some end of the line strictly te's but no TE can replace what a true wr brings, otherwise they wouldn't be te's they'd be wr's.

A true wr with speed and play making ability has run after the catch ability, field stretching ability....and....speed...

If we wanted a wr/TE type player we could have just kept Walter. But he doesn't do the things that we need from a second WR. Catch short routes and turn them into big gains...take the top of the defense...


No one is saying te's like Gronk and Hernandez aren't valuable and don't cause tons of problems for defenses, but considering this teams specific problems te's are much further down the list in comparison to more skill and playmaking at the wr position.

Also, let's not forget that dre hasn't been the healthiest guy. And he's another year older. Right now he's the only guy that can even be counted on to do anything at the wr position.

If we didn't have two capable te's already...sure. But that isn't the case and not often do you have this many high ability we'd projected to be around this late in the draft whereas te's rarely go very high. We can get another versatile TE later in this draft or next year pretty easily.

Disagree on what (certain)TE's bring to offenses. Do agree I would rather get one later. I really like Kelce and there are several solid project types that could be had later.

powda
04-14-2013, 02:11 AM
Rey last year mus and I had a knock down drag out over Colby Fleener. He likes te's. I'm not oposed to it if he's clearly the best player but we have a multitude of needs and I dont think te is one of them. If effert were a top 10 pick whom fell to 27 great
He's not. I said it last year and i'll say it this year...i'll be pissed if we pick a te in the first round.

IDEXAN
04-14-2013, 10:30 AM
He actually mentions Patterson at one point, so... it was a conscious decision on his part to have him fall.
League source who has given me incredibly accurate info that has appeared in this blog for 5 years told me Patterson could very well fall out of the first round. When he says something like that, I listen. He was the one telling me to put Bruce Irvin in the 1st round when nobody else had that last year.
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-2-0-texans-get-a-weapon/
************************************
OK, so that's LZs own explanation in his Mock for claiming that WR Patterson drops all the way out of the first round. Well I ain't buying it, and I'm more convinced than ever that the Texans take him should he make it to the 27th pick.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 11:08 AM
Patterson is Heyward Bey to me and overrated . Tyler Eifert is the best TE in the draft and in case nobody's noticed , the league is going more to the big athletic TEs . Dutch made the same case I would make and that is Schaub needs a vertical as in tall target in the red zone more than a vertical target to stretch the field .

Tyler Eifert may not be my preference but he is the best TE and Wrs and NT are deep in this draft .

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 11:30 AM
Patterson is Heyward Bey to me and overrated . Tyler Eifert is the best TE in the draft and in case nobody's noticed , the league is going more to the big athletic TEs . Dutch made the same case I would make and that is Schaub needs a vertical as in tall target in the red zone more than a vertical target to stretch the field .

Tyler Eifert may not be my preference but he is the best TE and Wrs and NT are deep in this draft .

If this is what you want, then Patterson in the 1st and Kelce in the 4th or Fauria in the 5th would represent better value. IMHO

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 11:35 AM
If this is what you want, then Patterson in the 1st and Kelce in the 4th or Fauria in the 5th would represent better value. IMHO

I think a guy like Woods or Hopkins will be better than Patterson . Hunter had a better year last year than Patterson IIRC . Besides I don't think Vol Wrs light it up in the NFL .

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers

mussop
04-14-2013, 11:56 AM
If this is what you want, then Patterson in the 1st and Kelce in the 4th or would represent better value. IMHO

That would be incredible. In fact that is how my next mock looks.

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 11:59 AM
I think a guy like Woods or Hopkins will be better than Patterson . Hunter had a better year last year than Patterson IIRC . Besides I don't think Vol Wrs light it up in the NFL .

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers

Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.

Add Meachem and Gault and what you have is guys who run fast down the field with no left or right turns .

I look and see what Hunter and Patterson did vs the SEC big boys .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:11 PM
Add Meachem and Gault and what you have is guys who run fast down the field with no left or right turns .

I look and see what Hunter and Patterson did vs the SEC big boys .

They do pretty well, thank you very much! LOL

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 12:19 PM
They do pretty well, thank you very much! LOL

Patterson

9/29 @Georgia 2 rec 31 yds
10/13 @Mississippi St 2 rec 25 yd
10/20 Alabama 1 rec 25 yd
10/27 @South Carolina 3 rec 26 yd

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:24 PM
Patterson

9/29 @Georgia L 51-44 2 31 15.5 1
10/13 @Mississippi St L 41-31 2 25 12.5 0
10/20 Alabama L 44-13 1 25 25.0 0
10/27 @South Carolina L 38-35 3 26 0

Don't worry about numbers.
The Vols have had a balance offense the last few years.

The one inconsistency is with the QB; otherwise, Tyler Bray would have been talked about as the number one QB in the draft.

If he only had minimized his inconsistency to the level of Andrew Luck (Luck was inconsistent in his Junior year), Bray would still have been regarded as a bona-fide first rounder.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:29 PM
One thing you need to keep in mind, Earl, is that against the big guns like Florida, Alabama, and Georgia, the Vols still amassed more yardage than those defenses normally allowed.

Bray never had a good game against the top teams in the SEC, thus the inconsistency I was talking about.

He got rattled and made poor decision that led to turnovers or he would take too many dump-offs unecessarily, or he would get all happy-feet.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 12:41 PM
One thing you need to keep in mind, Earl, is that against the big guns like Florida, Alabama, and Georgia, the Vols still amassed more yardage than those defenses normally allowed.

Bray never had a good game against the top teams in the SEC, thus the inconsistency I was talking about.

He got rattled and made poor decision that led to turnovers or he would take too many dump-offs unecessarily, or he would get all happy-feet.

Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .

For the record , Hopkins had 26 catches in two games vs Auburn and LSU .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:51 PM
Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .

Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the least two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:52 PM
Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .

Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the last two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 12:54 PM
Patterson's stock is similar to Tavon Austin, as both were used not only as pure receiver, but also to run reverses, and also as return men.

I don't know if you can get to this link directly or not, but look at the results when Patterson runs the ball, returns punts and KOs.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2012&org=694&player=84

That guy is dangerous every time the ball is in his hands; we call that a "playmaker".

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 12:56 PM
Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the least two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.

Being drafted and being drafted high in the 1st are two different things . It usually takes two or three years for a wideout to hit his stride ... why ... cause the CB are just as fast , disguise their coverage , and you have to think / read faster and be smart enough to be in check with the QB .

I think most WRs fail because for every Jerry Rice , AJ , Reggie Wayne , and Calvin Johnson , there's a big fast guy who doesn't understand what it takes to be an NFL receiver .

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 12:57 PM
Patterson's stock is similar to Tavon Austin, as both were used not only as pure receiver, but also to run reverses, and also as return men.

I would think Austin will be better than Patterson and Austin would help Schaub more if Kubiak would play to Austin's strengths .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 01:04 PM
I would think Austin will be better than Patterson and Austin would help Schaub more if Kubiak would play to Austin's strengths .

They both produced in college; Patterson against better competition.

Patterson is still raw in his route running, and he was able to achieve results despite an inconsistent QB (Bray vs Geno Smith.)

The guy with the better upside is Patterson, his size notwithstanding.

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 01:11 PM
I think a guy like Woods or Hopkins will be better than Patterson . Hunter had a better year last year than Patterson IIRC . Besides I don't think Vol Wrs light it up in the NFL .

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers

Some concerns about Patterson are coming to light as far as his mental grasp of the game, but I think that is going to be something each team will gauge for themselves. It would be tough to pass on him, but I do believe Hopkins & even Hunter are good players & possibly worthy of being the Texans pick. Hopkins seems to be the safest pick imo.

It's ironic that you knock Vols WR's by saying they don't light it up in the NFL, but earlier mentioned Woods saying you liked him better & considering he is from USC I think it is safe to say that USC has had its fair share of WR's who have come out w/ lofty expectations & then fizzled & disappeared in the NFL. I think they are 2 of the same kind to be honest & I'm not a big fan of USC WR's because of the more hype then production from its recent WR's whom have entered the NFL going back to Keyshawn Johnson....the ultimate hype machine.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 01:23 PM
They both produced in college; Patterson against better competition.

Patterson is still raw in his route running, and he was able to achieve results despite an inconsistent QB (Bray vs Geno Smith.)

The guy with the better upside is Patterson, his size notwithstanding.

Some concerns about Patterson are coming to light as far as his mental grasp of the game, but I think that is going to be something each team will gauge for themselves. It would be tough to pass on him, but I do believe Hopkins & even Hunter are good players & possibly worthy of being the Texans pick. Hopkins seems to be the safest pick imo.

It's ironic that you knock Vols WR's by saying they don't light it up in the NFL, but earlier mentioned Woods saying you liked him better & considering he is from USC I think it is safe to say that USC has had its fair share of WR's who have come out w/ lofty expectations & then fizzled & disappeared in the NFL. I think they are 2 of the same kind to be honest & I'm not a big fan of USC WR's because of the more hype then production from its recent WR's whom have entered the NFL going back to Keyshawn Johnson....the ultimate hype machine.

The thing I don't see with Patterson is YAC . Even on kickoffs he doesn't seem to break tackles .

Here is rankings of WRs since 1999 . Just scroll through and see how many highly drafted Wrs pan out .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=1999&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 01:23 PM
Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.

Rodgers does seem to play w/ some emotion & intensity to go along w/ his good physical skills. Those are some good attributes if he can keep his head on straight off the field & emotions in check on the field so that he doesn't hurt the team. I kinda compare him to Dez Bryant, whom most just watch & wait to see when he will screw up next.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 01:35 PM
Look at the 50 sec mark and unless I'm mistaken , he's scared to get popped . He's Ted Ginn .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_qeWcDVvM

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 01:39 PM
The thing I don't see with Patterson is YAC . Even on kickoffs he doesn't seem to break tackles .

Here is rankings of WRs since 1999 . Just scroll through and see how many highly drafted Wrs pan out .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=1999&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.

I think WRs from a pro style offense are safer picks .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 01:43 PM
Look at the 50 sec mark and unless I'm mistaken , he's scared to get popped . He's Ted Ginn .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_qeWcDVvM

I have no idea what you're looking at, Earl :)

76Texan
04-14-2013, 01:46 PM
I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.

A receiver that doesn't pan out in the pro due to injury or by running amock outside the football field has nothing to do with a college program being able to develop their skills.

You're a very stubborn person who doesn't take the time to do research before coming to a conclusion.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 01:48 PM
I have no idea what you're looking at, Earl :)

I'm looking at Cordelle looking for a safety that's not there .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 01:59 PM
I'm looking at Cordelle looking for a safety that's not there .

The ball was out of reach, Earl.

I've seen Patterson catch balls in traffic and getting popped enough to know that he's not scared to go in the middle.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 02:09 PM
The ball was out of reach, Earl.

I've seen Patterson catch balls in traffic and getting popped enough to know that he's not scared to go in the middle.

Yea he killed himself getting to that ball at 1:46 and I'm not sure he didn't have gator arms at 50 secs .

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap2000000152403/Michael-Irvin-on-Cordarrelle-Patterson

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 02:36 PM
A receiver that doesn't pan out in the pro due to injury or by running amock outside the football field has nothing to do with a college program being able to develop their skills.

You're a very stubborn person who doesn't take the time to do research before coming to a conclusion.

I rest my case on the perfect example of a know it all who can't handle someone else's opinion & foolishly assumes he is the only one who does "research". Talk about stubborn. :rolleyes:

Jarrett, Mike Williams, & Johnson to go along w/ many others from USC were not all effected by injury that effected their play in the NFL. Being a knucklehead is not something that can't be overcome & even when some of those players did get an opportunity to play in the NFL, Mike Williams, their so-called talent that was much hyped coming out of USC still never carried over to the NFL.

As I said earlier, his lack of respect for Vol WR's is exactly the same way I feel about USC WR's. That position from those 2 schools simply haven't had much success as of late & not having much hope that it will is based on their past.

In the end, it's my opinion & it seems someone else has the same opinion about the Vol's WR's based on the same lack of production from its past drafted players. It's an opinion & just because you feel it was made w/out research doesn't mean that is true or accurate or that you are correct. Get over it because its your stubbornness that keeps you from accepting the fact that your opinion is not that of others nor is going to be simply because you harp on the issue. Once again, we can easily agree to disagree. :smile:

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 02:42 PM
Look at the 50 sec mark and unless I'm mistaken , he's scared to get popped . He's Ted Ginn .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_qeWcDVvM

A 6'3 220 Lb Ted Ginn who played some RB.

I doubt Patterson would be playing RB if he was afraid of contact. Although we are talking about Dooley being the HC.

Even if Patterson is afraid of contact, he made the most big plays on the Vols offense.

Against Alabama Millner was opposite Patterson most of the game with help from Sunseri over the top.

Georgia also used help over the with Cummings as the main guy covering Patterson.

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 02:56 PM
76 and I view Bray differently. He sees his flaws in Bray that I attribute to poor coaching.

Bray helped keep the Vols in most games, the Vols defense was atrocious. Despite having some pro prospects like McCullers/Johnson/Wagner ect... (Terrible coaching)

mussop
04-14-2013, 02:56 PM
A 6'3 220 Lb Ted Ginn who played some RB.

I doubt Patterson would be playing RB if he was afraid of contact. Although we are talking about Dooley being the HC.

Even if Patterson is afraid of contact, he made the most big plays on the Vols offense.

Against Alabama Millner was opposite Patterson most of the game with help from Sunseri over the top.

Georgia also used help over the with Cummings as the main guy covering Patterson.


And you know what is going to happen if he gets that kind of attention for us? Number 80 is going to have a field day!

Like Erving said in his video, he needs to go where the offense can scheme him open. He's not a guy that early on is going to be able to read defenses and make adjustments on the fly.

Get the ball to him on bubble screens, we do that!
Get the ball to him on reverses, we do that!
Get the ball to him off play action fakes, we do that!
Get him the ball on kickoff and punt returns, we need that!

He is everything we ever wanted Jacoby Jones to be and more right now. His impact on this team could be just what this team has needed for years. A guy that is a threat to score anytime he touches the ball. We have two TE's, a bad ass number one WR and a great RB as the core of this offense. Throw in a wild card like Patterson, find ways to get him the ball and watch his presence open things up for everyone else.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 03:18 PM
Only one little piece of research needed regarding the USC receivers that were perceived as lacking in the pros: The people in charge of running that program during that time span have been gone for quite awhile.

They have nothing to do with Robert Woods.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 03:24 PM
Yea he killed himself getting to that ball at 1:46 and I'm not sure he didn't have gator arms at 50 secs .

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap2000000152403/Michael-Irvin-on-Cordarrelle-Patterson

This comes back to route running, Earl.
And we've already know that he's lacking in that department.
He needs to understand how to run that route against cover two with the CB playing underneath. He should have ran that route toward the inside so that he can use his body to shield away the safety.
Bray's throw should have been to the outside to begin with.
He can't let the safety have a play on the ball.
Still, Patterson has got to learn to understand the concept of the offense and how to adjust his route depending upon the defense he sees.

tru80texan
04-14-2013, 03:52 PM
Only one little piece of research needed regarding the USC receivers that were perceived as lacking in the pros: The people in charge of running that program during that time span have been gone for quite awhile.

They have nothing to do with Robert Woods.

LOL! One little addition to your lack of research concerning the people in charge being gone for quite a while at USC. Lane Kiffen has been associated w/ USC in some aspect since 2001 minus the 2007-2009 seasons due to his short stints w/ the Raiders & Vols & has coached offensive positions such as TE & WR as well as been the OC & now the HC. The only player that I mentioned that did not have anything to do w/ Kiffen & his offense or direct coaching was K. Johnson. All the other failures in te NFL in some aspect were coached by Kiffen. So your incorrect statement that those people in charge are long gone seems to be far from the truth because Kiffen was directly involved w/ most of the failed USC WR's. I think its safe to say Kiffen has had some dealings w/ Woods as well considering he is the HC. Kiffen being a major factor w/ all those WR's hardly says that all those people are long gone. A little research does help if you practice what you preach.

Try focusing on the subject matter instead of the person posting & maybe your stance might hold some water because as you continue to debate w/ me about my opinion you continue to overlook another member who basically said the same about Vol WR's as a group not doing well in the NFL. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless of course you just insist on focusing on individuals as opposed to the opinion on the subject. Moving on now, I hope you can do the same.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 04:03 PM
LOL! One little addition to your lack of research concerning the people in charge being gone for quite a while at USC. Lane Kiffen has been associated w/ USC in some aspect since 2001 minus the 2007-2009 seasons due to his short stints w/ the Raiders & Vols & has coached offensive positions such as TE & WR as well as been the OC & now the HC. The only player that I mentioned that did not have anything to do w/ Kiffen & his offense or direct coaching was K. Johnson. All the other failures in te NFL in some aspect were coached by Kiffen. So your incorrect statement that those people in charge are long gone seems to be far from the truth because Kiffen was directly involved w/ most of the failed USC WR's. I think its safe to say Kiffen has had some dealings w/ Woods as well considering he is the HC. Kiffen being a major factor w/ all those WR's hardly says that all those people are long gone. A little research does help if you practice what you preach.

Try focusing on the subject matter instead of the person posting & maybe your stance might hold some water because as you continue to debate w/ me about my opinion you continue to overlook another member who basically said the same about Vol WR's as a group not doing well in the NFL. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless of course you just insist on focusing on individuals as opposed to the opinion on the subject. Moving on now, I hope you can do the same.

USC produced Frank Gifford ... nuff said . :gamer:

ChampionTexan
04-14-2013, 04:09 PM
USC produced Frank Gifford ... nuff said . :gamer:

:hmmm:Interesting choice - I think I would've gone Lynn Swann :hmmm:

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 04:11 PM
:hmmm:Interesting choice - I think I would've gone Lynn Swann :hmmm:

If you were going for the sane or obvious .

ChampionTexan
04-14-2013, 04:12 PM
If you were going for the sane or obvious .

Well then the answer is obvious - Anthony Munoz.

76Texan
04-14-2013, 04:15 PM
My bad; I did know about Kiffin when I looked things up some time ago; just slip my mind today.

I'll have some time tomorrow and we can revisit this.

Two things I know is that:
Jarrett and Williams, one guy had multiple DUI arrests and was cut, the other let his weight ballooned up to 270 lbs at one time.

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 04:16 PM
Well then the answer is obvious - Anthony Munoz.

He pitched some in baseball at USC .

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 04:18 PM
My bad; I did know about Kiffin when I looked things up some time ago; just slip my mind today.

I'll have some time tomorrow and we can revisit this.

Two things I know is that:
Jarrett and Williams, one guy had multiple DUI arrests and was cut, the other let his weight ballooned up to 270 lbs at one time.

Receivers are a different breed .that can go anywhere from AJ to TO . The great ones can focus to go along with their skills .

I think next to QBs , WR get blasted the most by defenders . RBs get hit a bunch but know that's just part of the job . A WR has to be able to focus knowing he's going to get smashed .

76Texan
04-14-2013, 07:26 PM
Receivers are a different breed .that can go anywhere from AJ to TO . The great ones can focus to go along with their skills .

I think next to QBs , WR get blasted the most by defenders . RBs get hit a bunch but know that's just part of the job . A WR has to be able to focus knowing he's going to get smashed .

Alright Earl, so I looked into Dooley's background a little bit.
It doesn't look like he had any track record with his receivers getting drafted into the NFL to speak of, so we can't judge these receivers (Hunter, Rodgers, and Patterson) on the program.

Now, if we take into account the post that playoff made in another thread, about all the problems these Vols players seem to have (including the QB Tyler Bray), we could put up a red flag and ask the questions as to why and what happened.

Nawzer
04-14-2013, 09:24 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Eifert in a Texans uniform next season. It'll benefit a noodle armed QB like Schaub who throws floaters often. It'll give him a bigger target in the middle of the field. Eifer probably has a bigger catch radius than your run of the mill receiver and also he would give us that big target in the end zone.

beerlover
04-14-2013, 09:28 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Eifert in a Texans uniform next season. It'll benefit a noodle armed QB like Schaub who throws floaters often. It'll give him a bigger target in the middle of the field. Eifer probably has a bigger catch radius than your run of the mill receiver and also he would give us that big target in the end zone.

like a security blanket http://eclecticemily.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/1120-linus.jpg

steelbtexan
04-14-2013, 09:47 PM
Do Curtis Conway an J.K. McKay qualify as productive USC WR's? LOL

Honoring Earl 34
04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
Alright Earl, so I looked into Dooley's background a little bit.
It doesn't look like he had any track record with his receivers getting drafted into the NFL to speak of, so we can't judge these receivers (Hunter, Rodgers, and Patterson) on the program.

Now, if we take into account the post that playoff made in another thread, about all the problems these Vols players seem to have (including the QB Tyler Bray), we could put up a red flag and ask the questions as to why and what happened.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/players/_/position/wr

Rey
04-14-2013, 11:53 PM
I changes my mind. Just watched some clips of eifert and I'd be behind this pick.

Looks like a more consistent target than Most of the receivers I've seen.

mussop
04-15-2013, 06:52 AM
I changes my mind. Just watched some clips of eifert and I'd be behind this pick.

Looks like a more consistent target than Most of the receivers I've seen.

Welcome to the dark side.

Tailgate
04-15-2013, 10:13 AM
If Posey had not torn his damn achilles Eifert would be getting much more love round here. If we do end up with Eifert, and Posey can come back 100%... its a win across the board.

beerlover
04-15-2013, 10:25 AM
Texans don't like to pay for this position. Owen signed @ discount following his acl. Dreessen was let go now Casey. I don't see it :barman:

Rey
04-15-2013, 10:38 AM
Texans don't like to pay for this position. Owen signed @ discount following his acl. Dreessen was let go now Casey. I don't see it :barman:

I can see it if they basically make him receiver #2...

He's not a homerun threat or a catch and run guy, but he can make big plays down the field...

I don't think it fits what Kubiak wants to do offensively, but if he was willing to change it up a little I could see it working.

Brisco_County
04-15-2013, 01:28 PM
I can see it if they basically make him receiver #2...

He's not a homerun threat or a catch and run guy, but he can make big plays down the field...

I don't think it fits what Kubiak wants to do offensively, but if he was willing to change it up a little I could see it working.

A potential Shannon Sharpe?

Blake
04-15-2013, 01:37 PM
I like the idea of Eifert in round 1. Daniels is getting up there in age, and unfortunately, Graham, is getting his head hit around like a pinata. And dynamic tight ends are pretty dang valuable in this new NFL.

We still have ammo to move near the top of round 2 if a guy like Hunter, or Terrance Williams is there. Then we have our third rounder for a brand new ILB like Bostic.

Rey
04-15-2013, 01:38 PM
A potential Shannon Sharpe?

Let me clarify...

I didn't mean that eifert doesnt fit....I mean to say that I don't think kubiak wants to play without a field stretcher...

I'm not making a strong statement either way, but just thinking through out loud how the offense would look if eifert was drafted. Talent wise, he definitely looks worth the pick.

Brisco_County
04-16-2013, 03:01 PM
Let me clarify...

I didn't mean that eifert doesnt fit....I mean to say that I don't think kubiak wants to play without a field stretcher...

I'm not making a strong statement either way, but just thinking through out loud how the offense would look if eifert was drafted. Talent wise, he definitely looks worth the pick.

When I first saw mocks of Eifert going to the Texans, I was incredulous. After kicking it around for a few days, it's starting to make sense. I think we can get a field stretcher in the 2nd.

76Texan
04-16-2013, 03:22 PM
I like Eifert a lot, but guys like Levine Toilolo or Joseph Fauria would bring much better value between the 5th and 7th round.

Playoffs
04-16-2013, 03:23 PM
I like Eifert a lot, but guys like Levine Toilolo or Joseph Fauria would bring much better value between the 5th and 7th round.

Related to Christian?

76Texan
04-16-2013, 03:24 PM
Related to Christian?

His uncle.

mussop
04-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I like Eifert a lot, but guys like Levine Toilolo or Joseph Fauria would bring much better value between the 5th and 7th round.

There's a good chance neither gets drafted but they offer better value?

76Texan
04-16-2013, 07:50 PM
There's a good chance neither gets drafted but they offer better value?

You mean you've seen all 32 teams' draft boards? :)

mussop
04-16-2013, 08:05 PM
You mean you've seen all 32 teams' draft boards? :)

You yourself stated they would be good value in the 5th to 7th round. If there is a chance a guy will be around in the seventh round there is a chance he won't get drafted. How can a guy that could be around in the 7th round bring better value than a guy who is rated by nearly every expert a sure fire first round pick and the best at his position in the entire draft?

anxiously awaiting reply.:spin:

Mr teX
04-16-2013, 08:50 PM
I swear, if we draft a TE with the 27th pick overall I'm gonna purchase season tickets to the Texans just to boo the **** out of Kubiak...

76Texan
04-16-2013, 09:18 PM
You yourself stated they would be good value in the 5th to 7th round. If there is a chance a guy will be around in the seventh round there is a chance he won't get drafted. How can a guy that could be around in the 7th round bring better value than a guy who is rated by nearly every expert a sure fire first round pick and the best at his position in the entire draft?

anxiously awaiting reply.:spin:

I was thinking you might misunderstand what I was trying to say, and it looks like you did.

There are two ways to look at this.

1. The value of a pick depends on the round he's selected.
You see a lot of boards rated them between 5th to 7th (and possibly UDFA), but you might not see that both were valued as high as the second round.
For mock draft purpose, let's say I'm able to pick them late in the sixth or somewhere in the seventh ('cause people in the Mock Draft are doubtful about them for some reasons), but they get selected in the 4th or 5th round in the real draft. It means that I get more value for the picks than you guys thought.

2. Another way to look at it is comparable "added value" for the position in a late round vs selecting Eifert at #27 in Kubiak's system, at least in the first year.
With two TEs already on board with receiving skills, Eifert isn't going to see that many targets to justify his first round status.
If you think Eifert will see more targets than Graham, I don't know what to tell you.

At the moment, the Texans need a good blocking TE; both Toilolo and Fauria are at least as capable as Eifert, if not better. On top of that, they are both great red zone weapons due to their size. They have already shown they are capable in that role. Eifert at #27 isn't tremendously better than them in these two tasks to justify the spot he's picked in.

Instead, the Texans can use that #1 pick on another position of need, providing the team with other value to make it better, be it a receiver or a pass rusher, whatever.

76Texan
04-16-2013, 09:25 PM
Concerning Toilolo; he's an underclassmen who seeked the opinion of the draft advisory board. He then consulted with his parents and his coaches before making the decision.

It's logical to think that he received at least a decent grade.

Regarding Fauria, I read an interview in which he was quoted directly as hearing at least one scout saying that he might sneak into the second round.

SteveSlaton20
04-16-2013, 09:29 PM
I swear, if we draft a TE with the 27th pick overall I'm gonna purchase season tickets to the Texans just to boo the **** out of Kubiak...

would you be upset if that TE was another Gronk?

76Texan
04-16-2013, 09:30 PM
In 38 games, Eifert had 11 TDs.
In 30 games, Toilolo had 10 (don't forget he was behind Fleener and Ertz, and was used more as a blocking TE.)

Fauria surpassed Eifert in just one year with 12 (and a total of 20 in his career spanning 40 games.)

ChampionTexan
04-16-2013, 09:30 PM
I swear, if we draft a TE with the 27th pick overall I'm gonna purchase season tickets to the Texans just to boo the **** out of Kubiak...

Pretty sure Bob would be okey dokey with that.

SteveSlaton20
04-16-2013, 11:34 PM
In 38 games, Eifert had 11 TDs.
In 30 games, Toilolo had 10 (don't forget he was behind Fleener and Ertz, and was used more as a blocking TE.)

Fauria surpassed Eifert in just one year with 12 (and a total of 20 in his career spanning 40 games.)

In 2011, Eifert had a Sophomore QB in Tommy Rees throwing to him, who got benched for a freshman QB last year, Everett Golson. His freshmen season, he had Dayne Crist throwing to him, who was also a sophomore in 2010. Three different QBs in three seasons, hard to compare that when Ertz and Toilolo had Andrew Luck for most of their career.

Not saying Ertz isn't better than Eifert, or vice versa, but you can't compare stats they had in college IMO.

mussop
04-16-2013, 11:57 PM
In 2011, Eifert had a Sophomore QB in Tommy Rees throwing to him, who got benched for a freshman QB last year, Everett Golson. His freshmen season, he had Dayne Crist throwing to him, who was also a sophomore in 2010. Three different QBs in three seasons, hard to compare that when Ertz and Toilolo had Andrew Luck for most of their career.

Not saying Ertz isn't better than Eifert, or vice versa, but you can't compare stats they had in college IMO.

He's not comparing Ertz to Eifert. He's comparing Ertz to Tolio and Fauria taking into account where they could be drafted.

mussop
04-17-2013, 12:05 AM
I was thinking you might misunderstand what I was trying to say, and it looks like you did.

There are two ways to look at this.

1. The value of a pick depends on the round he's selected.
You see a lot of boards rated them between 5th to 7th (and possibly UDFA), but you might not see that both were valued as high as the second round.
For mock draft purpose, let's say I'm able to pick them late in the sixth or somewhere in the seventh ('cause people in the Mock Draft are doubtful about them for some reasons), but they get selected in the 4th or 5th round in the real draft. It means that I get more value for the picks than you guys thought.

2. Another way to look at it is comparable "added value" for the position in a late round vs selecting Eifert at #27 in Kubiak's system, at least in the first year.
With two TEs already on board with receiving skills, Eifert isn't going to see that many targets to justify his first round status.
If you think Eifert will see more targets than Graham, I don't know what to tell you.

At the moment, the Texans need a good blocking TE; both Toilolo and Fauria are at least as capable as Eifert, if not better. On top of that, they are both great red zone weapons due to their size. They have already shown they are capable in that role. Eifert at #27 isn't tremendously better than them in these two tasks to justify the spot he's picked in.

Instead, the Texans can use that #1 pick on another position of need, providing the team with other value to make it better, be it a receiver or a pass rusher, whatever.

I don't have the energy for this discussion. :). I will say IMO there is no way no how either of your guys could have even close value no matter where drafted. And I do believe Ertz would get more than enough playing time THIS year to justify drafting him. Graham hasn't shown me anything.

Also I don't see OD being around much longer.

Playoffs
04-24-2013, 09:42 PM
Mock 3.0

Texans trade down... (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-3-0-texans-finally-address-wide-receiver/)

16. St.Louis – DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson: Hunter could be the guy here as well, but the Rams have been busy with visits from Hopkins so I’m going to take that seriously and plug the most game-ready outside WR in this draft here at this spot.

17. Pittsburgh - Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame: I also like Kenny Vaccaro here, but Eifert addresses a need in the passing game and gives the Steelers instant help in passing game. He’s not a great in-line blocker, but Matt Spaeth is back for that. With Heath Miller coming off a knee injury and with his contract expiring in 2014, this moves makes so much sense.

18. Dallas – Kenny Vaccaro, S, Texas: Multi-dimensional safety plugs in right away with talented CB group.

19. NY Giants – Menelik Watson, OT, Florida State: Watson is a bit of a project but he has the upside to be a starting LT or RT for years to come. Giants could go DE here, but I don’t think they’ll reach for that position if their ratings don’t back it up.

20. Chicago – Arthur Brown, LB, Kansas State: The Bears have a short-term answer in the middle with D.J. Williams, but that’s all he is for now. Lance Briggs is getting up there in age and Brown could fit in as a WLB or MLB in Bears scheme.

21. Cincinnati – Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia: Cue the Bengals character issue jokes, but Ogletree is a very real possibility for a defense that was way too inconsistent at ILB last year. Ogletree could play inside or outside for Mike Zimmer.

22. St. Louis - Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina: Williams gets great penetration and could help with an interior pass rush.

23. Minnesota – Justin Hunter, WR, Tennessee: If you are the Vikings, you probably run up to the podium with this card as the Vikings could plug Hunter in next to Greg Jennings for immediate help in the passing game.

24. Indianapolis – Margus Hunt, DE, SMU: Hunt has absolutely freakish size/strength/quickness measurables and the length that 3-4 teams covet.

25. Minnesota – D.J. Hayden, CB, Houston: Hayden is big, fast and aggressive and gives the Vikings a player with outstanding upside to plug into their secondary.

26. Green Bay – Kyle Long, OT, Oregon: The Packers are in desperate need of a tackle and if they don’t take one here, they probably don’t get one. It’s not really in Ted Thompson’s nature to reach, but this year might be different.

27. San Francisco (trade with Houston) – Datone Jones, DE, UCLA: The Texans have several issues with depth on their roster and would be more than open to move back. Jones is a great fit for the 49ers’ 3-4 and gives them a pass rusher on the interior to groom behind Justin Smith. San Francisco has plenty of picks so they are going to be players higher up the board in all likelihood.

28. Denver – Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama: The Broncos could look at DE here, but Williams is a block eater who helps fortify the interior for the Broncos.

29. New England – Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee: Of course Tom Brady needs even more weapons, right?

30. Atlanta – Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington: I’m sure the Falcons would love to have Trufant fall this far and I wouldn’t be shocked if they moved up in this draft to target a DE or a CB.

31. Houston (from 49′ers) – Robert Woods, WR, USC: If the Texans wait too long, the WRs they like will be gone and by moving back and picking up an extra pick, the Texans would be able to use that pick to add safety or TE later on. Woods gives them a solid #2 who could step in next year and he fits the Texans size/speed profile at WR.

32. Baltimore – Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State: The Ravens need pass rush help and while Werner isn’t a prototype in a 3-4, the Ravens could basically just turn him loose as WOLB and let him rush the passer.

Draft Notes

* I know it is shocking to see no QBs taken in the first round, but I think Geno Smith could really fall if he gets past the Jets. With that said, I think a team will trade into the back end of the first to take a QB or a team inside the top 10 will trade back and target QB later in the first.

* Tank Carradine could go inside the top 15 or fall completely out of the first round. Reviews of his play are very mixed in league circles and if teams don’t believe he’s a fit in the 3-4, his options are more limited.

* There could be a run on CBs in the first with as many as five going. It’s very unpredictable with so much CB depth in this draft.

mussop
04-24-2013, 09:54 PM
Man if I'm sitting there at 31 and Werner is still on the board I would have a hard time passing him up. Move Reed inside put Werner outside and our defense is greatly improved.

ArlingtonTexan
04-24-2013, 10:55 PM
I always take trading down as the cop-out move in mocks. When noone wants to tradup and you don'tlike board what do you do?

ChampionTexan
04-24-2013, 11:02 PM
I always take trading down as the cop-out move in mocks. When noone wants to tradup and you don'tlike board what do you do?

FWIW, Mike Mayock did his final (only?) mock tonight, and while he did it without trades, he did mention when discussing his San Fran pick that with all the picks they have this year, he expected them to trade up.

Playoffs
04-24-2013, 11:47 PM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein 50m
I'm also not finding many teams who are excited by Bjoern Werner. I had Tank out of my last mock and Werner going 32nd

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein 51m
Tank Carradine took a beating when I spoke with team sources today. I don't think the NFL world is as enamored with him as the draft media

beerlover
04-25-2013, 12:09 AM
Mock 3.0

Texans trade down... (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-3-0-texans-finally-address-wide-receiver/)

So basically comes down to Woods & special teams/depth player over Patterson who could come in as a rookie & completely turnaround return game while adding another dangerous WR weapon, let me think about it :boogereater:

IDEXAN
04-25-2013, 08:57 AM
LZ once again showing his football acumen by making Robert Woods his pick for the Texans in his final mock. Gosh, what a coincidence, that's also my hope for the Texans WR choice.
But then there's this in the just released "draftcountdown.com" (one of my favorite mocks) latest and final mock which has Deandre Hopkins and Woods going at the 44th and 52th position respectively in the Draft, so go figure ? They've also got Keenan Allen & Terrance Williams, 2 other WRs rated first round picks in many mocks, both hanging around until the third round. That's real value at WR I'd say ?

rmartin65
04-25-2013, 08:59 AM
So basically comes down to Woods & special teams/depth player over Patterson who could come in as a rookie & completely turnaround return game while adding another dangerous WR weapon, let me think about it :boogereater:

Its about hedging risk. Patterson could become the best WR, or he could wash out. With Woods you are getting a guy who can step in right away and be a decent number 2. However, he likely wont become anything more than a solid number 2.

steelbtexan
04-25-2013, 09:27 AM
Its about hedging risk. Patterson could become the best WR, or he could wash out. With Woods you are getting a guy who can step in right away and be a decent number 2. However, he likely wont become anything more than a solid number 2.

This sounds just like Rick/Gary never take a chance on greatness, always take the safe route.

You can develop a nice little team drafting like this. But you wil never achieve greatness with this philosophy.

If Patterson is there he should be the pick. He may be dumb as a box of rocks. But Darius Slay the top notch CB from Miss St. said on a radio show this week that Patterson was the toughest guy to cover in the SEC. We dont need anybody with that kind of Talent playing WR2 on the Texans. Patterson doesn't fit Gary's mold of what a WR should be.

Patterson scored an 11 on his Wunderlich. Guess what AJ's score was? 14. Not exactly mensa material, Patterson should be the pick if available. (Doubtful)

Rey
04-25-2013, 09:51 AM
I think LZ has been completely off base with his mocks and his inside info about guys. No way for me to be sure, but a lot of it just doesn't make sense.

I don't see why San Fran would move up a few spots to take Jones. Now I haven't seen a lot of Jones (or maybe I have and he was just forgettable), but still...Doesn't make sense to me...

And if I'm the Texans I'd rather take Patterson.

Woods is a nice player, but if we're going to take a WR in the first it needs to be a potential stud. I don't see a lot of difference between Woods and some of the second round WR's that will be there as far as ability goes. We don't need a slightly better Devier Posey in the first. We need a real live difference maker.

IDEXAN
04-25-2013, 10:08 AM
I was watching some tape the other day of Justin Hunter, and the resemblance to Randy Moss is unmistakable, atleast for me. I'm not saying for a moment that he's the next Randy Moss or that he possess talent even close to RM, but the tall, thin, long-limbed physique and the lithe, effortless stride reminded me quite a bit of Moss. I could see how some team would watch him, study him and maybe even become enamored with what they thought he could be in the NFL. But I don't see ole "meat & potatoes" Gary Kubiak being the type of NFL coach who would fall in love with Hunter ?

76Texan
04-25-2013, 10:09 AM
If Datone Jones is there, the Texans just have to take him.
He will replace Antonio Smith next year.
If the Niners want him, they would have to give us at least an additional second rounder before I agree to the trade.

76Texan
04-25-2013, 10:18 AM
I don't have the energy for this discussion. :). I will say IMO there is no way no how either of your guys could have even close value no matter where drafted. And I do believe Ertz would get more than enough playing time THIS year to justify drafting him. Graham hasn't shown me anything.

Also I don't see OD being around much longer.

O.D. is signed for two more years, with increasing cap of just 500K above last year level.
Unless he gets injured, I think the chance is almost 100% that he's not going anywhere.
Graham is already as good a blocking TE than any the Texans ever had.
His catching ability has never been the question.
The third TE, even if it's Eifert, isn't going to see the field much.
I honestly don't see the Texans taking a TE in the first three rounds.

They still might, but I doubt it very much.

mussop
04-25-2013, 10:26 AM
If Datone Jones is there, the Texans just have to take him.
He will replace Antonio Smith next year.
If the Niners want him, they would have to give us at least an additional second rounder before I agree to the trade.

Most over rated player in this draft. He is one of the few players I would be unhappy with at 27.

Doppelganger
04-25-2013, 10:31 AM
FWIW, Mike Mayock did his final (only?) mock tonight, and while he did it without trades, he did mention when discussing his San Fran pick that with all the picks they have this year, he expected them to trade up.

If San Francisco is smart, they trade down and acquire an additional second rounder. Then they flip a second rounder this year (and if needbe one of their thirds) into a 1st next year. They would still have their own second and multiple extra picks. They could even then to flip a third this year into a second next year in order to space out their picks.

They do that and suddenly they have 2 firsts and 2 seconds next year...SCARY!

Seńor Stan
04-25-2013, 10:45 AM
Its about hedging risk. Patterson could become the best WR, or he could wash out. With Woods you are getting a guy who can step in right away and be a decent number 2. However, he likely wont become anything more than a solid number 2.

Which, ironically is the precisely what we have gotten in terms of production from that position.

76Texan
04-25-2013, 10:50 AM
If Datone Jones is there, the Texans just have to take him.
He will replace Antonio Smith next year.
If the Niners want him, they would have to give us at least an additional second rounder before I agree to the trade.

Most over rated player in this draft. He is one of the few players I would be unhappy with at 27.
That was what I thought at first, but then
I pulled up a lot of his tapes (whole games) and my thoughts about him changed.

This guy fits the Texans D very well.
He can play the 3t and 5t that Watt and Smith do.
He can slide into NT on passing down like Smith does or he can play at 43DE (like Smith did under Bush.)

He's constantly in the backfield, but didn't get much stats out of those occasions (in term of QB pressure) due to one reason or another.

He's solid in the run game, too!

This guy is going to play for a long time, IMHO.

IDEXAN
04-25-2013, 10:54 AM
As near as I can figure from reading the player ratings/reviews, Terrance Williams out of Baylor is the best blocker, maybe the only WR coming out this year who's thought to have any serious skills as a blocker. Now I'm not sure how much this goes into Kubiak/Texans calculation in taking a WR ? We know it's important, but we probably will learn just how important it is very soon now ?

Playoffs
04-25-2013, 11:46 AM
That was what I thought at first, but then
I pulled up a lot of his tapes (whole games) and my thoughts about him changed.

This guy fits the Texans D very well.
He can play the 3t and 5t that Watt and Smith do.
He can slide into NT on passing down like Smith does or he can play at 43DE (like Smith did under Bush.)

He's constantly in the backfield, but didn't get much stats out of those occasions (in term of QB pressure) due to one reason or another.

He's solid in the run game, too!

This guy is going to play for a long time, IMHO.

I went back and watched more on him, and I'm more on the fence than against now.

He's got a quick first step and can get skinny between a double.

Doesn't have an arsenal of moves, so upside there.

But he seems to lose body control on penetration often running himself out of the play or taking poor angles. Is he a finisher???

I've seen him get blown off the line in a run a few times.

So the question is for me is more about who he is as a worker. Can he be coached up? I dunno. I'd love to be in the interview.

rmartin65
04-25-2013, 02:17 PM
This sounds just like Rick/Gary never take a chance on greatness, always take the safe route.

You can develop a nice little team drafting like this. But you wil never achieve greatness with this philosophy.

If Patterson is there he should be the pick. He may be dumb as a box of rocks. But Darius Slay the top notch CB from Miss St. said on a radio show this week that Patterson was the toughest guy to cover in the SEC. We dont need anybody with that kind of Talent playing WR2 on the Texans. Patterson doesn't fit Gary's mold of what a WR should be.

Patterson scored an 11 on his Wunderlich. Guess what AJ's score was? 14. Not exactly mensa material, Patterson should be the pick if available. (Doubtful)

I hate the Wonderlich, so I put very little stock into its results. I am basing my opinion of Patterson on his on-the-field play and what has been leaked from scouts (though I realize these could be smokescreens).

I would take Patterson if he was there. Boom/bust, but you have to swing for the fences sometimes.

Which, ironically is the precisely what we have gotten in terms of production from that position.

Haha, nice.

TexansSeminole
04-25-2013, 03:15 PM
I think LZ has been completely off base with his mocks and his inside info about guys. No way for me to be sure, but a lot of it just doesn't make sense.

I don't see why San Fran would move up a few spots to take Jones. Now I haven't seen a lot of Jones (or maybe I have and he was just forgettable), but still...Doesn't make sense to me...

And if I'm the Texans I'd rather take Patterson.

Woods is a nice player, but if we're going to take a WR in the first it needs to be a potential stud. I don't see a lot of difference between Woods and some of the second round WR's that will be there as far as ability goes. We don't need a slightly better Devier Posey in the first. We need a real live difference maker.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

I don't trust anyone who uses league "sources" to rate players. Why would I ever believe that a league source would give even a small bit of truthful incite into what a team is thinking? What's the point in a scout or league "source" even talking to a media individual about players? To throw curveballs? Part of the reason I don't listen to Todd McShay or Mel Kiper. All they do is repeat info from league "sources" and end up contridicting themselves quite often.

I don't get alot of the picks to be honest. Several mocks now where multiple decisions make little to no sense to me.

In 2010, I remember a mock of his that had us taking Ryan Matthews over Joe Haden so, not sure how far the league source thing goes. Nothing personal, just sayin'.

mussop
04-25-2013, 03:20 PM
I went back and watched more on him, and I'm more on the fence than against now.

He's got a quick first step and can get skinny between a double.

Doesn't have an arsenal of moves, so upside there.

But he seems to lose body control on penetration often running himself out of the play or taking poor angles. Is he a finisher???

I've seen him get blown off the line in a run a few times.

So the question is for me is more about who he is as a worker. Can he be coached up? I dunno. I'd love to be in the interview.

This is pretty much what I have seen. He reminds me too much of Mitchell. We already have a Mitchell.

Besides I really believe we need to get two startes with our first two picks. If I'm going to draft a guy for the future it's going to be Hunt.

Rey
04-25-2013, 03:30 PM
This is pretty much what I have seen. He reminds me too much of Mitchell. We already have a Mitchell.

Besides I really believe we need to get two startes with our first two picks. If I'm going to draft a guy for the future it's going to be Hunt.

I think if we drafted Hunt he could play a bunch on passing downs as an edge rusher. Kind of like how Aldon Smith was used his rookie season. Out of him, Reed, and Merciless and Braman and whomever....put your best two edge rusher on the field and let them provide some pressure and collapse the pocket from the edge.

Hunt is not ready to play as a full time starter though....so while he would be mainly a pick for the future...I do think he could help immediately in passing situatons.

If you can, go back and look at him when he plays on the edge rushing the passer when it's a definite pass vs. how he plays when he's in the middle...It's a pretty big difference...

The Pencil Neck
04-25-2013, 03:31 PM
This sounds just like Rick/Gary never take a chance on greatness, always take the safe route.

Cushing? Watt? Okoye? Brown?

These guys weren't choices where a chance was taken? A suspected drug-user, a motor-only guy, a 12 year old, and a guy widely regarded as a "reach"?

I disagree with your assessment.

mussop
04-25-2013, 05:00 PM
Most over rated player in this draft. He is one of the few players I would be unhappy with at 27.

Let me add to this statement, unless we draft him with the intention of playing him at OLB.

mussop
04-25-2013, 05:03 PM
Cushing? Watt? Okoye? Brown?

These guys weren't choices where a chance was taken? A suspected drug-user, a motor-only guy, a 12 year old, and a guy widely regarded as a "reach"?

I disagree with your assessment.

:specnatz: And they drafted Okoye over Willis who IMO was the safest pick in the draft! I couldn't believe they did that.