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CloakNNNdagger
04-06-2013, 08:30 AM
Interesting to look at "what might have been"............and who would have been our QB, if history had taken a different turn.


Jets were mad about Matt Schaub

QB who could've saved Gang from Favre, Sanchez will instead be Monday foe

Updated: October 6, 2012, 1:06 PM ET


FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- On Monday night, the football-watching world will get a chance to see the player the New York Jets once hoped would be their quarterback of the future.

Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans.

What, you thought it was a snarky reference to Mark Sanchez?

In 2006, the Jets were hot for Schaub, a promising young backup with the Atlanta Falcons. With Chad Pennington coming off his second shoulder operation, the Jets' new regime at the time -- general manager Mike Tannenbaum and coach Eric Mangini -- wanted a long-term solution at quarterback.

Little-known fact: They targeted Schaub, offering defensive end John Abraham to the Falcons in a straight-up deal, Mangini revealed.

"We tried like hell to get him," Mangini said recently in a phone interview.

Schaub was playing behind Michael Vick and had started only two games in two seasons, but his potential intrigued the Jets. At the time, it seemed like a lopsided proposal. Not many teams would consider dealing a proven pass-rusher in his prime, but the Jets didn't want to commit to Abraham, who had the franchise tag, had some off-the-field issues and was seeking a monster contract.

The negotiations turned contentious. Eventually, the Jets traded Abraham to the Falcons for the 29th pick in the draft, which Atlanta acquired from the Denver Broncos. The Jets used the pick to draft Nick Mangold after trying unsuccessfully to deal it to the San Diego Chargers for running back Michael Turner -- another little-known fact.

It's hard to second-guess the move because Mangold is one of the top centers in the league, but what if?

What if Mangini had pried Schaub away from the Falcons? The alternate history probably would've unfolded like this:

Mangini said the Jets would've kept Pennington in 2006, which turned out to be a terrific year for him. In 2007, it probably would've been Pennington and Schaub. But by 2008, it would've been Schaub's show.

Which means there never would've been a trade for Brett Favre in 2008.

And there never would've been a need to draft Sanchez in 2009.

Chances are, Schaub would be playing quarterback for the Jets, not the undefeated Texans, on Monday night at MetLife Stadium.

REST OF THE STORY (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8468537/new-york-jets-pursued-matt-schaub-2006)

dream_team
04-06-2013, 11:59 AM
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2013, 01:24 PM
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?

I think Carr would have stayed around. We would have drafted someone like Trent Edwards in the second round, assuming we didn't draft Kevin Kolb in the first instead of Amobi Okoye. Let's say we went with the Kolb option.

There would have been an open competition for the QB position and I think Sage would have won it. Sage would have gotten injured during the season and Kubiak would have given Carr one more shot... and he failed. So Kubiak would have brought Kolb in and Kolb would have done OK.

The next year, Carr would have been released and again we go with the open competition at QB. This time, Kolb wins and he's anointed the future of the franchise. And he would have gotten injured and the next few seasons would have been juggling Kolb and Sage. And Kubiak would have been fired after 4 seasons.

And then in 2010, we would have a new coach and we'd have drafted Tim Tebow. And now, in 2013, we'd have another new coach and we'd be looking at Geno Smith or EJ Manuel.

powda
04-06-2013, 01:56 PM
That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.

badboy
04-06-2013, 03:28 PM
That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.What if left tackle Tony Boseli had healed enough to start from game one? Maybe Carr would not have set record for most QB sacks ever.

powda
04-06-2013, 03:32 PM
What if left tackle Tony Boseli had healed enough to start from game one? Maybe Carr would not have set record for most QB sacks ever.

And or if willie roaf had passed his physical.

dc_txtech
04-06-2013, 03:33 PM
If my aunt had a shlong she would be my uncle.

powda
04-06-2013, 05:18 PM
If my aunt had a shlong she would be my uncle.

So your uncles live in montrose?

IBleedTexans
04-06-2013, 05:23 PM
If my aunt had a shlong she would be my uncle.

Well that escalated quickly didn't it.....:kitten:

Playoffs
04-06-2013, 05:35 PM
So, this could be us?

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sanchez.gif

Texan_Bill
04-06-2013, 07:30 PM
So, this could be us?

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sanchez.gif

Sadly............ YES!! That could be us. :gun: Although I don't think it would ever happen.

What if?


What if Joe Montana was the QB? What if "Dr. Doom" was a apart of this linebacking crew? What if...... Indeed.

brakos82
04-06-2013, 07:41 PM
So your uncles live in montrose?


I would just like to say, I recently visited Montrose.


It may be the 4th or 5th strangest neighborhood by Seattle standards. :kitten:

Hardcore Texan
04-06-2013, 08:37 PM
If my aunt had a shlong she would be my uncle.

Tried to rep that but MSR.

Brisco_County
04-06-2013, 11:54 PM
Interesting article. Anything that undermines the Jets is a good thing.

That's a disturbing chain of events you project pneck. Let's go all the way back to the carr selection over JULIUS FREAKING PEPPERS. If that selection doesn't happen Schaub probably isn't here either.

People forget that 2002 was a terrible draft for QB's. There were no options. David Garrard was the best QB out of that class.

powda
04-06-2013, 11:58 PM
Interesting article. Anything that undermines the Jets is a good thing.



People forget that 2002 was a terrible draft for QB's. There were no options. David Garrard was the best QB out of that class.

Tony Banks for a year?

Lucky
04-06-2013, 11:58 PM
So where's the "what if" part for the Texans if we didn't trade for Schaub? Would have we kept Carr around? Would we have drafted Brady Quinn? Would Sage have taken over the starting role? What you think?
I think the Texans would have still released Carr, Kubiak was through with him. The Texans would have traded for Jake Plummer who would have "un-retired" to play under his former OC. And the Texans would have drafted a QB at some point. Don't know who or when.

GP
04-07-2013, 12:22 AM
I think the Texans would have still released Carr, Kubiak was through with him. The Texans would have traded for Jake Plummer who would have "un-retired" to play under his former OC. And the Texans would have drafted a QB at some point. Don't know who or when.

IIRC, Jake retired while still under contract with the Bucs (due to Gruden's "I'll Stash 12 QBs!" strategy.

I don't think Jake would have been available even if he un-retired, he'd be property of the Bucs (maybe there was a one-year rule, where he sits out for a year and then become a FA????).

This rule, IIRC, is to keep a disgruntled player from simply "retiring" and then un-retiring so that he could be a FA and play for some other team.

dc_txtech
04-07-2013, 12:31 AM
IIRC, Jake retired while still under contract with the Bucs (due to Gruden's "I'll Stash 12 QBs!" strategy.

I don't think Jake would have been available even if he un-retired, he'd be property of the Bucs (maybe there was a one-year rule, where he sits out for a year and then become a FA????).

This rule, IIRC, is to keep a disgruntled player from simply "retiring" and then un-retiring so that he could be a FA and play for some other team.

That's why we would have had to trade for him, like Lucky mentioned. Probably wouldn't have cost much to get Jake Plummer at that point in his career.

Lurvinator11
04-07-2013, 01:27 AM
http://houstontexanfansr.blogspot.com/2013/04/what-if-volume-1.html

Wrote a little blog on this subject.

Take a look, if you want. It just discusses what direction we could have taken from the draft, or free agency, had we not gotten Schaub.

infantrycak
04-07-2013, 03:00 AM
http://houstontexanfansr.blogspot.com/2013/04/what-if-volume-1.html

Wrote a little blog on this subject.

Take a look, if you want. It just discusses what direction we could have taken from the draft, or free agency, had we not gotten Schaub.

If I can make a suggestion it would be to embed links for particularly important assertions, for instance in this one the Jets wanting Schaub and Kyle wanting Beck in the 1st.

pirbroke
04-07-2013, 05:30 AM
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.

steelbtexan
04-07-2013, 09:23 AM
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.

The Andy Reid theory on QB's.

ChampionTexan
04-07-2013, 10:11 AM
The Andy Reid theory on QB's.

By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.

The Pencil Neck
04-07-2013, 10:43 AM
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.

Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.

disaacks3
04-07-2013, 11:26 AM
Hmmmm... let's check this out.

Reid's first year was 99. Here are the QBs he selected in drafts.

1999. Donovan McNabb - 1st round/2nd overall
2001. AJ Feely - 5th round/155
2004. Andy Hall - 6th round/185
2007. Kevin Kolb - 2nd round/36
2010. Mike Kafka - 4th round /122
2012. Nick Foles - 3rd round/88

I'm not seeing any huge pattern there unless he was going to draft his next QB in the 7th round.

So, the only QB he selected in the first round was an all pro. The only ones he took in the first two round were starters. Sure beats the hell out of David Carr number one overall. He might not have found late round gems, but that'd be a decent average for a GM.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Hervoyel
04-07-2013, 11:37 AM
Tony Banks for a year?

We would have won more games. Might have jacked up our draft position the next year and cost us Andre Johnson though.

I love "What if?" conversations but the further you get from the moment you change the more chance that change has to damage something that you wouldn't want to change.

But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.

Lucky
04-07-2013, 11:56 AM
But even if we took Carr (and there's no good reason to take him over Peppers) Banks should have started in 2002. That's all on that regime. At least McNair has the excuse of being ignorant at that point. Casserly/Capers/Palmer all should have known better.
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.

steelbtexan
04-07-2013, 11:56 AM
By Andy Reid, do you mean the guy who took a QB with the 2nd overall pick of the draft prior to his first season as HC, then saw that QB become the starter 8 games into his rookie season, and hold that job for 11 years? The guy who made that QB the highest paid player in the NFL at one point in time? The guy who was criticized for not running the ball enough with RB's like Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy? The guy who when that QB was past his prime, gave another QB a $100 million contract to take his place? Is that the Andy Reid you mean? Because that sounds kind of like the opposite of the guy pirbroke just described.

I was talking about Reid drafting a QB for the future when he already had his starter. Feely/Kolb and Foles are examples. Then when Vick/McNabb etc... get injured the backup steps in usually plays well for a few games and gets moved for a high draft pick.

Reid always has 2 above avg QB's on his roster. See Kansas City Traded for Alex Smith and signed Chase Daniel in FA. He prioritizes the QB position, which is quite smart. IMHO

BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.

Lucky
04-07-2013, 12:00 PM
BTW, I was kind of hoping the Texans would sign Daniels in FA. He has alot of potential.
Gary Kubiak, QB guru, should be able to draft and develop guys without paying good money to so-so backups (see: Orlovsky, Dan).

HJam72
04-07-2013, 12:10 PM
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line. Try to always have a great run team and pass protection which would inflate the young QB numbers and help bring in future draft picks, I don't care if the team just won the Super Bowl, if its his last year time to go instead of gutting 5 or so of other positions. I know we get attached to certain QBs but I would like to see if some GM has the guts to try this. Even some of the worst QBs have done pretty good with strong support around them.

This would never work, because you would not be trying to find a great QB, and would then accidentally land a Tom Brady on your first attempt. Life is wacky. :rake:

thunderkyss
04-07-2013, 04:56 PM
I think Carr would have stayed around.

No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.

infantrycak
04-07-2013, 05:04 PM
No way Carr would have stayed. He was most definitely in no position to be starting for an NFL team.

I think we would have stayed with Sage & drafted the likes of John Beck, Brian Brohm, or Chad Henne. We may have taken a flyer as well on guys like Tyler Thigpen, Stephen McGee, & Joe Webb.

These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.

Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's

Lucky
04-07-2013, 05:15 PM
Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?
Some of them aren't even in the league anymore.

thunderkyss
04-07-2013, 07:46 PM
If I was a GM, I think I would try a opposite trend as other teams. With so much of the percentage of your salary cap going to QBs, I would just keep playing mid round rookies until they demanded a raise then ship them off and invest that chunk of savings into the offensive line.

If it were that easy, you & I wouldn't be working for a living.


How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.

Not to mention as a rookie, he looked the part. David's problems didn't start till later.


Given that not a single one of those guys is a starting QB how is it not crazy to predict the bold?

6 QB's, 10 teams, 15382 yds, 70 TD's, 76 INT's

Schaub - 20911 yds, 114 TD's, 64 INT's

When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans. We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.

Then again, this is a system & Kubiak is a QB Guru. One of those guys may have very well thrived here & Schaub may not have done so well with GangGreen.... who knows?

infantrycak
04-07-2013, 08:24 PM
When I said "we" I meant we as Texans' fans, not Matt Schaub fans.

Here I took we to mean the Texans. Given the ample opportunities of the players you mentioned and their pitiful results I see zero support for your assertion.

We probably wouldn't have gaudy QB numbers for mental masturbation, but we'd have probably missed the play-offs just the same through 2010.

What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.

Then again, this is a system ...

This has to be one of the most trite and irrelevant statements around. EVERY NFL team has a system. ALL 32 teams are a system.

thunderkyss
04-07-2013, 09:17 PM
What kind of goofiness is this? We could have started a UDFA through 2010 and likely missed the play-offs each year. Doesn't make the QB performance the same.


Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.

I said we could have gone through a half dozen QB prospects trying to find a good one & this team would have been just as successful. Missing the play-offs through the first 4 years of Kubiak, 3 years of Schaub & a whole lot of baby steps.

I'd love to have seen Chad Henne develop under Kubiak, in Kubiak's system. He's doing pretty good with a revolving door of coaches, schemes, targets.... the kids a player. I'd have loved to have seen Skelton here, or Kolb, or yes.... Tyler Thigpen.

None of those guys would probably be able to do what Schaub has. I never said otherwise. But what they lack in wit, they'd have made up in athleticism.

infantrycak
04-07-2013, 09:36 PM
Y'know, for a lawyer, your reading comprehension skills are sub-par. I didn't say anything about QB performance.

Try re-reading the first clause of your sentence I quoted.

Treating "just as successful" = anything short of "missing the playoffs" is ridiculous.

Wolf
04-07-2013, 09:54 PM
We would have picked up Favre in 2008 :runaway:

Lucky
04-07-2013, 09:58 PM
We would have picked up Favre in 2008 :runaway:
Mike Florio, everybody give him a big hand.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130215210136/glee/images/0/0e/Applause-gif-tumblr-i8.gif

Wolf
04-07-2013, 10:01 PM
MSR that was awesome :spit:

Norg
04-07-2013, 10:31 PM
What if what if mannnn !!!!!!!!!


we could of drafted

Matt scahub
Ben rothersburger
Julluis Peppers

ed reed
Revis

Troy polomau


and on and on and on

Hervoyel
04-07-2013, 11:47 PM
How would that have played to fans who wanted to see the rookie #1 pick? As you inferred, hindsight is always 20/20. But that would have been tough to explain, when so many other #1 picks (Aikman, Bledsoe, Couch) all started as rookies.

Well, Couch was the only one of those to start on an expansion franchise (though Aikman's first season the Cowboys could have passed for one). I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. It's not like the Tim Couch example wasn't pretty recent at that stage. All they would have had to do was point to Cleveland and say "You don't want to see that happen to our new franchise QB do you?"

Of course the sensible way for the Texans to avoid that situation would have been to draft Peppers and build their OL and DL before trying to draft the face of the franchise QB. I like to think that if the same situation came up today McNair would know better than to sign off on that plan.

steelbtexan
04-08-2013, 08:52 AM
Well, Couch was the only one of those to start on an expansion franchise (though Aikman's first season the Cowboys could have passed for one). I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. It's not like the Tim Couch example wasn't pretty recent at that stage. All they would have had to do was point to Cleveland and say "You don't want to see that happen to our new franchise QB do you?"

Of course the sensible way for the Texans to avoid that situation would have been to draft Peppers and build their OL and DL before trying to draft the face of the franchise QB. I like to think that if the same situation came up today McNair would know better than to sign off on that plan.

You would hope BoB would've learned.

Regardless of the sacks, Carr would've never been successful. He wasn't a student of the game and had a poor work ethic. That's a receipe for failure.

thunderkyss
04-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Try re-reading the first clause of your sentence I quoted.

Treating "just as successful" = anything short of "missing the playoffs" is ridiculous.

You're wrong, plain & simple. Think about it before you speak again. You're only hurting yourself.



These guys would have had ample opportunity to win the starting job & we'd have probably enjoyed as much success as we have with Schaub.

"We"

As in the Texans would probably have enjoyed as much success from 2007 to 2013. In the context of the Texans, success is winning games, winning the division, getting to the play offs, & winning in the play offs.

Despite all of Schaub's yards & stats, the Texans have not been winning (until recently) & that is what everyone has been saying. So when we're talking about winning, when we're talking about play offs as "success" we could have put Mark Sanchez back there & been just as successful (maybe more) between 2007 & 2010.

& I'm using Sanchez as a QB who's in over his head, where Chad Henne & Kevin Kolb are "probably" better QBs, even though their teams have not had the "success" that teams led by Sanchez has had.

thunderkyss
04-08-2013, 09:26 AM
I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready. new franchise QB do you?"


I don't know if it would have been a good thing for the Texans to say Carr wasn't ready.

It would have been a better sell, to say the team wasn't ready for a rookie QB. & with the sack numbers we saw, I'm sure the fans would have understood.

Double Barrel
04-08-2013, 10:45 AM
"Hindsight is always 20-20. But looking back it's still a bit fuzzy."
~ Dave Mustaine

powda
04-08-2013, 10:57 AM
I think the fans would have been fine with sitting Carr for a year if the team said he wasn't ready.

I remember being happy they would start him. I was thinking he needed to learn on the go and it would help him. One of the first season games was against the chargers when Carr was sacked something like a dozen times and beat to hell. My opinion changed. Capers, Casserly, and Palmer castrated Carr. He wouldve never been great ,but he had a chance to be average.

El Tejano
04-08-2013, 12:07 PM
Even Carr asked for better lineman and the regime just shrugged it off. They had a decent run game with Domanik Davis and there was very minimal improvement. Can't say that Carr would've been better but by the time he got a run game, dude was shell shocked so we will never know.

kingtexan
04-08-2013, 01:00 PM
Funny conversation. I was just wondering today how hard the rest of the team is really working in the off-season if they don't feel like Schaub can get the job done. I wonder if they are just taking care of themselves, and not really striving to get to the next level since it seems improbable they have the right QB to take the next step?

thunderkyss
04-08-2013, 01:02 PM
Even Carr asked for better lineman and the regime just shrugged it off. They had a decent run game with Domanik Davis and there was very minimal improvement. Can't say that Carr would've been better but by the time he got a run game, dude was shell shocked so we will never know.

How many offensive linemen came through here during the Carr years? & while they never spent a first round pick on one, they did draft Chester Pitts in the second.

I don't know that they "shrugged" it off. They tried to fix the OL. Maybe they didn't draft enough in the first two rounds, but they were trying to build a team.

Our OL today has only one guy drafted in the first three rounds.

powda
04-08-2013, 01:22 PM
How many offensive linemen came through here during the Carr years? & while they never spent a first round pick on one, they did draft Chester Pitts in the second.

I don't know that they "shrugged" it off. They tried to fix the OL. Maybe they didn't draft enough in the first two rounds, but they were trying to build a team.

Our OL today has only one guy drafted in the first three rounds.

Some of us believed Todd Wade would be a bulldozer on the right side.

Lol

76Texan
04-08-2013, 01:35 PM
I just took a look, and the Texans invested quite a bit in their O-linemen for Carr.

Granted, it's never good for a young QB to start for an expansion team, Carr was among the problems, along with McNair.

kingtexan
04-08-2013, 01:37 PM
Carr was among the problems, along with McNair.

Many have said Chris Palmer killed Carr's career.

HOU-TEX
04-08-2013, 01:38 PM
Many have said Chris Palmer killed Carr's career.

Many have also said Carr killed Carr's career

76Texan
04-08-2013, 01:44 PM
I guess Palmer's job is to go around the NFL killing QBs' career. :peek:

kingtexan
04-08-2013, 01:47 PM
Many have also said Carr killed Carr's career

He had the athletic ability, and skill-set. Guess the question is did he start making the poor decisions because of the pounding he took based on the horrible line and possible poor advice from his OC, or did his poor decisions cause the sacks and mistakes? From what I saw, I think the later was true for most of his career here, and by the time Kubiak took over he was just damaged goods and had no chance. Given a different OC, chance to learn for a year or so on the bench, and better line, I feel he could have had a bright future.

Must not be so terribly horrible now, since he keeps getting the back-up gig to Eli, and this year many could argue there was better potential options for the Giants but they still choose to re-sign Carr.

Rey
04-08-2013, 03:55 PM
He had the athletic ability, and skill-set. Guess the question is did he start making the poor decisions because of the pounding he took based on the horrible line and possible poor advice from his OC, or did his poor decisions cause the sacks and mistakes? From what I saw, I think the later was true for most of his career here, and by the time Kubiak took over he was just damaged goods and had no chance. Given a different OC, chance to learn for a year or so on the bench, and better line, I feel he could have had a bright future.

Must not be so terribly horrible now, since he keeps getting the back-up gig to Eli, and this year many could argue there was better potential options for the Giants but they still choose to re-sign Carr.

You forgot two things...

His desire and work ethic...


It's pretty well documented at this point that DC wasn't a kick me out the gym kind of guy.

Mr teX
04-08-2013, 04:17 PM
As with all things, the truth is somewhere in between...I have 0 doubt that the pounding Carr took had some kind of impact on his development as an NFL qb. He had alot on his plate.

-A rookie learning how to play in the NFL at the most important position.

-The face of an expansion franchise and city that was football starved for 10 years

-The annointed leader of a team full of practice squad quality players on offense... many of which didn't even deserve to be in the NFL.

Then there were the expectations as the #1 overall pick...

I could definitely see how all of that could break a guy down to where you just don't enjoy playing the game anymore........................especially after getting lit up for a good 2 seasons.

but i also think that he was mentally weak too though...moreso than normal to where he likely couldn't handle being under the microscope he was put under. In the end, I don't think it wouldv'e taken much for him to wilt.

76Texan
04-08-2013, 05:12 PM
Read this and tell me what you think about his mental make-up.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Carr/Carr_bio.html

The distance between Bakersfield and Fresno is 103 miles - for reference.

kingtexan
04-08-2013, 05:46 PM
Read this and tell me what you think about his mental make-up.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Carr/Carr_bio.html

The distance between Bakersfield and Fresno is 103 miles - for reference.

Interesting read. When a guy like Shanahan says that you listen ... just didn't turn out that way.

Hervoyel
04-08-2013, 06:20 PM
Carr was a career killer if you played OL or coached him (HC, OC). He was an automatic payday if you were a competent RB because you would get a mountain of dump-off yards and all the touches he could manage to audible into.

The smart thing to do was to avoid rolling the dice on a rookie QB until the teams foundation was built and the Texans said that they were going to build that way even as they picked the rookie QB first overall. A lot of people were glad to get Carr (myself among them) but a lot of us also pointed out that it flew in the face of everything that McNair, Casserly, and Capers said they were going to do. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time. Right up until the opener against Dallas I was worried that we'd just made the 1999 Browns mistake all over again. then we won that game and the Kool Aid was awesome. A week later they must have mixed it wrong or something because San Diego drove home the point that yes, we had just made the exact same stupid mistake that Cleveland had.

It makes absolutely no difference what Carr would have been or how bad he really was. It doesn't matter at all. He was never going to be anything here. Success was never an option because even if he'd been John Elway and Troy Aikman combined in a cyborg body it's a team sport and the Texans were complete **** from day one until Kubiak got here and started making changes.

CloakNNNdagger
04-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Carr had it all backwards from the beginning:thinking:............Last one on the field.............First one off the field.

kingtexan
04-08-2013, 06:21 PM
Carr had it all backwards from the beginning:thinking:............Last one on the field.............First one off the field.

The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.

infantrycak
04-08-2013, 08:15 PM
The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.

It's an anonymous blog. Carr himself has admitted that isn't close to true on top of numerous reports from other players.

Texan_Bill
04-08-2013, 09:23 PM
The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.

:mcnugget:

I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!

Hervoyel
04-08-2013, 10:10 PM
:mcnugget:

I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!

The one reason that doesn't bother me is that players who ride the pine and carry a clip board all year know the difference between earning a ring as a real contributor and getting one for "perfect attendance". Carr was taken first overall so I'm sure he enjoyed watching the season from the sidelines and it's a nice memento but he can't possibly believe that he's met any expectations just because of that.

I thought when he went to San Francisco and then didn't push Alex Smith even remotely that was when he'd permanently settled into backup mode. He's just a guy taking up a roster spot now.

Norg
04-08-2013, 11:20 PM
who were the Vet QB in 2001 and 2002 in F/A that we could of got ..

infantrycak
04-08-2013, 11:40 PM
who were the Vet QB in 2001 and 2002 in F/A that we could of got ..

Link (http://profootball.scout.com/2/163634.html)

There is this thing out there called google. Try 2002 nfl free agent QB. As with your spelling - make an effort.

KA4Texan
04-09-2013, 02:17 AM
So, this could be us?


It already was, "WAS" being the glorious keyword.... past tense. :kitten:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj117/_ballsdeep/texanslol2.gif

ObsiWan
04-09-2013, 03:42 AM
The smart thing to do was to avoid rolling the dice on a rookie QB until the teams foundation was built and the Texans said that they were going to build that way even as they picked the rookie QB first overall. A lot of people were glad to get Carr (myself among them) but a lot of us also pointed out that it flew in the face of everything that McNair, Casserly, and Capers said they were going to do. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time.


if this article is to be believed, Casserly should have followed is initial mindset...

The expansion club was preparing for its first season of play, and a successful draft was pivotal to the the franchise’s fortunes. Initially, David had not been at the top of Houston’s talent list. GM Charlie Casserly anticipated taking either John Henderson of Tennessee or Julius Peppers of North Carolina with the first pick. But when coach Dom Capers and offensive coordinator Chris Palmer suggested another option—finding a young quarterback to develop—the Texans reassessed their strategy. After working David out and talking with him, Houston realized he was too good to pass up. Though there were some concerns about his throwing mechanics, Palmer assured the rest of the front office that David was physically sound and very coachable.

yeah... if only Casserly had stuck to his guns. A dynamite pass rusher like Peppers coupled with a pretty solid defensive back end... sigh, the possibilities....

That also says something else. From the very beginning around here, the coaches have had a stronger say regarding draft picks than the GM.

Corrosion
04-09-2013, 05:30 AM
. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time.

In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.

thunderkyss
04-09-2013, 11:07 AM
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.

I think it is reasonable to believe that we would have been better off selecting Peppers.

We spent the first four years trying to improve the offensive line. The whole offense had issues, the defense had issues, but for the most part, the OL got more attention than it should have because we never wanted to admit the problem, or at least a big part of the problem, was the guy behind the OL.

He made the OL look worse than they were. He made the receivers look worse than they were. He made the TEs, RBs look worse than they were. & the defense can only do so much when the offense doesn't do it's part.

Not blaming everything on Carr, moreso the people who made the decision to stick with him for so long. Carr had his bright spots. I thoroughly enjoyed watching him play the game the first two years. It was mid-way through year three that I started feeling like we were treading water & losing ground.

I do not have that feeling about Schaub. From my seat, high above Reliant, when Carr played I could see open receivers on every play even though he would check it down. I haven't seen it often with Schaub. & when I did see it, it was difficult to tell if the open receiver was open before Schaub decided to check it down, or chunk it.

Right now, my belief is that if Schaub checked it down, it was the best decision he could have made with the information he had at the time. In fact, Schuab's criticism as of late, was that he wasn't seeing the open guy underneath & taking chances on the deeper routes. Again, not something I've seen throughout his career, forcing the ball.

It leads me to believe the "pressure" to win was something he struggled with & I believe the experience of "being there, done that" is going to help him & our team in the future.

Hervoyel
04-09-2013, 11:35 AM
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.

Peppers produced right out of the gate and here in Houston he would have been lining up in a genuinely good defense from day one. Gary Brown and Seth Payne were disruptive and our linebackers were more than capable. Glenn and Coleman could cover and did. The defense finished 16th I think and that was while the offense was hanging them out to dry constantly. Smarter play from Tony Banks who the offense always settled down and performed for (to the extent that they were capable of performing) I think would have made us more competitive and netted at least two more wins in year one. I'm not saying we come out and go 8-8 or anything. I'm just saying we win 6 games our first year instead of 4 and look better and more competitive while doing it.

But as I said, in the big picture is that worth not getting the best player we've ever had in Andre Johnson? Not really.

Rey
04-09-2013, 11:40 AM
I wanted Peppers at the time, but I wasn't devastated with Carr.

I thought Peppers was by far the better player though and even today I think we'd have been better off with Peppers.

ObsiWan
04-09-2013, 12:53 PM
I was surprised that Capers - a defensive guy - let the offensive "braintrust" talk him out of drafting a stud/weapon like that to add to his defense.

Double Barrel
04-09-2013, 01:25 PM
I guess Palmer's job is to go around the NFL killing QBs' career. :peek:

Except when he helped Eli get his first Super Bowl ring (and SB MVP!) as his QB coach.

yeah, real QB killer there, all that success is KILLER!! :winky:

TejasTom
04-10-2013, 12:43 PM
...It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr...

I've heard Kubiak stopped yelling at him in practice around then because it was a waste of breath.


Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.

thunderkyss
04-10-2013, 11:30 PM
I've heard Kubiak stopped yelling at him in practice around then because it was a waste of breath.


Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.

I'm not sure when it was, but I remember a couple of times he was on the sideline chuckling a few times because he couldn't believe what David decided to do. After one of the games he admitted that he didn't understand "that throw"

kingtexan
04-11-2013, 10:01 AM
I'm not sure when it was, but I remember a couple of times he was on the sideline chuckling a few times because he couldn't believe what David decided to do. After one of the games he admitted that he didn't understand "that throw"

Wonder how different it is with Matt at times? Cant say he doesn't make some "what the heck was that?" type throws in many games. Or when he has two yards for a first and a clear field in front of him and throws it away.

The Pencil Neck
04-11-2013, 10:15 AM
Wonder how different it is with Matt at times? Cant say he doesn't make some "what the heck was that?" type throws in many games. Or when he has two yards for a first and a clear field in front of him and throws it away.

You hear Kubiak occasionally talking about yards they left on the field. And we know that Kubiak yells at his QBs (see Sage, Carr), so I doubt he doesn't let Matt know about each and every one of them.

But.

The difference between Schaub and HWWNBN is so amazingly vast that it's just insane to compare them. But. I will. Kinda. I remember when I was just hoping for a QB who could throw for over 3600 yards, 16+ TDs, and <13 INTs in a season. It wasn't good.

kingtexan
04-11-2013, 11:05 AM
You hear Kubiak occasionally talking about yards they left on the field. And we know that Kubiak yells at his QBs (see Sage, Carr), so I doubt he doesn't let Matt know about each and every one of them.

But.

The difference between Schaub and HWWNBN is so amazingly vast that it's just insane to compare them. But. I will. Kinda. I remember when I was just hoping for a QB who could throw for over 3600 yards, 16+ TDs, and <13 INTs in a season. It wasn't good.

If you want to compare stats then it paints one picture, but if you compare them individually it is interesting.

Carr had a better arm and better wheels and was more of a pure athlete. He was a young rookie thrown into the fire and crushed play after play. Many of his questionable decisions came from trying to extend the play or do too much and force things, while some would say being shell-shocked.

Schaub had been in the league as a back up and was supposed to be a plug and play superstar if you believed the hype surrounding all the teams trying to trade for him. He doesn't have a strong arm and has never been mobile so what you need is a pocket passer with superior accuracy and great football intellect who doesn't make mistakes with the ball. What you have is a guy who has piled up yards and stats from receivers YAC and quite often throws the ball off target only to have the intended receiver adjust and save his stats. Typically his glaring mental mistakes are just that, glaring mental mistakes, not generated by his competitiveness and overwhelming desire to make a play or give that extra effort.

I agree they are vastly different, but in the end believe the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.

Hervoyel
04-11-2013, 12:14 PM
....the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.

It definitely has that feeling much of the time. You look for something that will make you believe that he's not just capable of doing it by some kind of abstract standard but that he will step up when he has to and make it happen but those moments just don't happen often enough or against those must-win-this-game quality opponents.

Mr teX
04-11-2013, 12:50 PM
It definitely has that feeling much of the time. You look for something that will make you believe that he's not just capable of doing it by some kind of abstract standard but that he will step up when he has to and make it happen but those moments just don't happen often enough or against those must-win-this-game quality opponents.

This whole post applies to about 2/3rds of teams in the NFL though. Certified franchise/elite/great......whatever you want to call them qbs are the only guys who bring that to the table week in week out, year in year out.

76Texan
04-11-2013, 01:06 PM
This whole post applies to about 2/3rds of teams in the NFL though. Certified franchise/elite/great......whatever you want to call them qbs are the only guys who bring that to the table week in week out, year in year out.

Agree.

And even though I'm never high on Schaub, I still want to reiterate that this team is built (money-wise and therefore, talent-wise) to have both units contributing in big wins. It's not supposed to be on Schaub's shoulder.

In 09, Schaub played well down the stretch to get the Texans to 9-7.

In 2010, the Texans kept finding way to lose game.
The loss to the Ravens came on an INT by Schaub, sure.
But he played a heck of a game bringing the team back.
The whole season really rested on the ineptness of the D.

In 2011, Schaub certainly played well enough to post a 7-3 record before he got injured.

And it's hard to fault your QB in 2012 when he won 12 games.
This was a year where the previously 2nd rank Defense was supposed to help the Texans cause. It fell apart with Cushing's injury.
Let's not forget that we spent a lot of resources on the D in 2011; the draft picks we made on offense in 2012 didn't make enough of an impact - Jones, Brooks, Posey, and Martin. If we had spent the resources on offense in 2011 instead, the offense would have been better in 2012, when we lost Winston, Brisiel, Dreesen, Jacoby; not to mention Leach/Vickers.

The Pencil Neck
04-11-2013, 01:55 PM
If you want to compare stats then it paints one picture, but if you compare them individually it is interesting.

Carr had a better arm and better wheels and was more of a pure athlete. He was a young rookie thrown into the fire and crushed play after play. Many of his questionable decisions came from trying to extend the play or do too much and force things, while some would say being shell-shocked.

Schaub had been in the league as a back up and was supposed to be a plug and play superstar if you believed the hype surrounding all the teams trying to trade for him. He doesn't have a strong arm and has never been mobile so what you need is a pocket passer with superior accuracy and great football intellect who doesn't make mistakes with the ball. What you have is a guy who has piled up yards and stats from receivers YAC and quite often throws the ball off target only to have the intended receiver adjust and save his stats. Typically his glaring mental mistakes are just that, glaring mental mistakes, not generated by his competitiveness and overwhelming desire to make a play or give that extra effort.

I agree they are vastly different, but in the end believe the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.

Carr had the potential to be a better QB than Schaub. But he doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to do it.

About halfway through the 2004 season, Carr either shut down or coorrdinators figured him out. For the first half of that season, Carr was playing really, really good. IIRC, he was averaging 270 yards per game and not making a lot of mistakes. And then something happened and he was never the same. His average dropped (again, iirc), to 170 yards per game.

Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the wheels that Carr had. And sometimes he gets saved when he has bad location on his throws by great catches... BUT... Schaub throws a catchable ball. This was the difference between him and Vick with the Falcons. Vick had the stronger arm but the receivers dropped his throws more often than Schaub's passes because of that. Schaub is an infinitely better QB than Carr.

With the right team around him, Schaub can win a Super Bowl. By the time Kubiak got here, Carr could NOT win a Super Bowl. There's no way he could perform at a high enough level that even a team like the Trent Dilfer Ravens could save him.

QB75
04-11-2013, 06:21 PM
:mcnugget:

I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!

Rookie QB, no veteran backup to mentor him, didn't have dedicated QB coach, and on an expansion franchise....tough hand for anyone. Glad he got a ring, even if a backup.

CretorFrigg
04-11-2013, 06:26 PM
Rookie QB, no veteran backup to mentor him, didn't have dedicated QB coach, and on an expansion franchise....tough hand for anyone. Glad he got a ring, even if a backup.

Glad he lived up to his #1 overall draft status.

BullBlitz
04-11-2013, 06:47 PM
Glad he lived up to his #1 overall draft status.

Few of them do. None when the Texans draft them.

Double Barrel
04-12-2013, 09:57 AM
Few of them do. None when the Texans draft them.

'eh, I heard a stat the other day that QB's are the position most in the hall of fame of any position in any round.

14 QBs in the HoF that have been drafted in the first round. No other position comes close according to NFLN.

David Carr should have been a third round pick - at best - and allowed to develop on the bench for 2-3 years before being thrown to the wolves. His work ethic and film study skills were lax according to his own words, and someone should have worked on him to develop those basic fundamental aspects of being an NFL QB.

I think the marketing department had too much influence on football operations back then. Marketing was in overdrive to make an impact with a new expansion team, and David Carr looked handsome in those spiffy new uniforms. They needed a poster boy and Carr fulfilled that position well. Unfortunately, it ultimately damaged his career as his apparent overwhelming and permanent shell shock (according to most everyone it seems) have left him unable to even compete for a starting job.

Doppelganger
04-12-2013, 04:42 PM
I think Carr would have stayed around. We would have drafted someone like Trent Edwards in the second round, assuming we didn't draft Kevin Kolb in the first instead of Amobi Okoye. Let's say we went with the Kolb option.

There would have been an open competition for the QB position and I think Sage would have won it. Sage would have gotten injured during the season and Kubiak would have given Carr one more shot... and he failed. So Kubiak would have brought Kolb in and Kolb would have done OK.

The next year, Carr would have been released and again we go with the open competition at QB. This time, Kolb wins and he's anointed the future of the franchise. And he would have gotten injured and the next few seasons would have been juggling Kolb and Sage. And Kubiak would have been fired after 4 seasons.

And then in 2010, we would have a new coach and we'd have drafted Tim Tebow. And now, in 2013, we'd have another new coach and we'd be looking at Geno Smith or EJ Manuel.

Disagree.

I think Carr was pretty much as good as gone. Rather than Okoye, the Texans would have selected Brady Quinn and the QB guru, Gary Kubiak, would have been in charge of molding him. I think he would have struggled and at the end of the 2009 season, Kubiak would have been fired. In 2010, they would have hired Bill Cowher and he would have gone defense with the first pick: Ndamukong Suh, Eric Berry, Jason Pierre Paul(depdning how poorly they did the year before).

They still would have been looking for a starting QB and likely would have signed a vet. In 2011 they would have drafted Andy Dalton...

TejasTom
04-12-2013, 10:42 PM
http://www.mikesfreegifs.com/main4/funny/snoopy24.gif

steelbtexan
04-12-2013, 11:08 PM
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.

Yes they would've been better

1. They would've had a chance to get a QB in the 20003-2004 draft that would've put his profession that paid him millions for 9 months worth of work 1st. Palmer/Eli Manning and Peppers, instead of Davey.

2. They wouldn't have been living the fantasy that Mario was what he was supposed to be.

It is what it is, but the decision to draft Davey set this org back 7-8 yrs. Hell, BoB was so in love with Davey, Gary had to lie to BoB to get his 1st HC job. I guess sometimes lying does pay. Not that I blame Gary, if I was in his shoes I would've told BoB what he wanted to hear.

Norg
04-12-2013, 11:20 PM
man if we would of signed peppers instead of carr and then drafted like david garred in the 4th round man we would of deff made the playoffs within 2 years in the capers era

GNTLEWOLF
04-13-2013, 08:05 AM
Yes they would've been better

1. They would've had a chance to get a QB in the 20003-2004 draft that would've put his profession that paid him millions for 9 months worth of work 1st. Palmer/Eli Manning and Peppers, instead of Davey.

2. They wouldn't have been living the fantasy that Mario was what he was supposed to be.

It is what it is, but the decision to draft Davey set this org back 7-8 yrs. Hell, BoB was so in love with Davey, Gary had to lie to BoB to get his 1st HC job. I guess sometimes lying does pay. Not that I blame Gary, if I was in his shoes I would've told BoB what he wanted to hear.

So....you are saying that because we got Carr, the Texans will not be able to go QB in the 20003 draft?...that is if the world and pro football are still around.......LOL...Just kiding..I had to say something though...LOL:kitten:

thunderkyss
04-13-2013, 03:15 PM
Let's not forget that we spent a lot of resources on the D in 2011; the draft picks we made on offense in 2012 didn't make enough of an impact - Jones, Brooks, Posey, and Martin. If we had spent the resources on offense in 2011 instead, the offense would have been better in 2012, when we lost Winston, Brisiel, Dreesen, Jacoby; not to mention Leach/Vickers.

MSR.....

I think there are several people here who are afraid of what this O would look like if Gary was to get his hands on just a little more bonafide talent, some 1st day pedigree.

I mean if Kubiak ain't going nowhere when we suck (13 wins & he division in 2012)... he'll be in for life if we were to win a conference championship game.

thunderkyss
04-13-2013, 03:21 PM
Carr had the potential to be a better QB than Schaub. But he doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to do it.


I don't even know if that was the case. I bet Carr would have been everything we wanted him to be if he had Kubiak from day 1. Someone who had a clue on how to protect him. Someone who could watch him & explain what the problem was & what can be done to help him out.

I'm probably way off, but I feel like David's coaches were telling him, "You're fine man.... we'll fix this." When they should have been saying, "Sure there were some mistakes up front, but you should.... blah, blah, blah."

I think Kubiak's frustration with David, was that he "acted" as if he never learned. During practice, in the film room, I'm sure David was smart enough to grasp the concepts & answer the questions. But on game day, when he was getting smaked around he turtled up.

DocBar
04-20-2013, 10:50 PM
So, this could be us?

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sanchez.gifDidn't read all of this, so it may be a repeat. This WAS us 2002-2006. The only difference being that Carr would never actually run into someone while attempting to assume the fetal position.

DocBar
04-20-2013, 10:55 PM
Maybe another repeat. Draft Questionnair II: David Carr (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark-judge/22097903/draft-questionnaire-ii-david-carr-on-the-lessons-of-a-no-1-pick)
Q: Because of that, do you ever wonder how your career might've changed if you were chosen by another, more established, team or a team that didn't have to start you immediately?



Carr: "When people would ask me in my first couple of years in the league, 'Would you rather start right away or watch the [starter] and learn from him?" I used to say, 'I'd rather start all the time.' Sitting here now, I would love to be on the field. But looking back at it, I think it would've been better off -- not only for me but for the team in Houston -- for me to sit there and watch a guy. The first NFL game I ever saw I was playing in, and it was a shock to the system and something I wasn't truly prepared for. We had a long road, and we battled for five years to get it right. But it was just a situation where we never put it together."

HTown2ATX
04-23-2013, 10:23 AM
So, this could be us?

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sanchez.gif

Correction...this WAS us....remember the Rosencopter anyone just to name one....

http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=Rosencopter.gif

If I'm not mistaken.....weren't the Texans up a few TD's with only a few minutes to go when Rosencopter and other panty shlarting events occurred to cause the Texans to lose the game. Ah, the days when the Texans were a pure laughing stock....

The Pencil Neck
04-23-2013, 10:59 AM
Correction...this WAS us....remember the Rosencopter anyone just to name one....

http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=Rosencopter.gif

If I'm not mistaken.....weren't the Texans up a few TD's with only a few minutes to go when Rosencopter and other panty shlarting events occurred to cause the Texans to lose the game. Ah, the days when the Texans were a pure laughing stock....

Up 17 points with 5 minutes to go.

:toropalm:

thunderkyss
04-23-2013, 07:26 PM
Up 17 points with 5 minutes to go.

:toropalm:

We need to make up our minds. Either we want to run up the score, or play it safe.

Can't have it both ways.

:kubepalm:

steelbtexan
04-23-2013, 09:07 PM
We need to make up our minds. Either we want to run up the score, or play it safe.

Can't have it both ways.

:kubepalm:

This was the game that made Gary go into the turtle position every time the Texans get a lead today.

Thanks Sage

Norg
04-23-2013, 09:31 PM
and just think if sage would have just ran for 6 yards slid then punt he would of been a hero

thunderkyss
04-24-2013, 04:44 PM
This was the game that made Gary go into the turtle position every time the Texans get a lead today.

Thanks Sage

I don't know. I think he tried to push the tempo quite a bit in 2010, when our defense wasn't up to snuff.

Didn't work out well for us. In 2011, he truly understood what a premium it was to win. I could never put my finger on it, but we changed quite a bit between the Tennessee & Jacksonville game that year. His attempts were already coming down by the time he got hurt in Tampa Bay.

Then when Leinart got hurt...... we leaned more & more on Arian & it's never been the same since. Doesn't matter to me, as long as we win. I'd rather win by 3 if we're playing good football, than by 20 playing suspect ball.... as long as we win & that was the difference between 2011 & 2012.

I'm sure Kubiak saw it & I'm sure the team saw it. They tried their best to fix the problem, but just couldn't. & I'm ok with that. Happens every year, even to the best teams.

Like those teams, we need to continue to find a way to win, even when we aren't at full strength, or if we aren't playing our best football. Denver, Greenbay, & New England didn't look particularly strong, until midway through the season. Batlimore never looked like they had a chance...... but they eeked it out & got it done in January.

Norg
04-24-2013, 08:23 PM
its all about depth and luck u gotta have good depth players rdy to step in and win games and a bit of luck of course and calls going your way

ObsiWan
04-25-2013, 12:53 AM
its all about depth and luck u gotta have good depth players rdy to step in and win games and a bit of luck of course and calls going your way
Exactly.
When the Pats lost Gronk and Woodhead during our playoff game with them, I thought we'd caught a break.

Then Shane Vereen comes in and burns us for THREE TDs!

Who the hell was Shane Vereen?!?!

revan
04-25-2013, 01:19 AM
Exactly.
When the Pats lost Gronk and Woodhead during our playoff game with them, I thought we'd caught a break.

Then Shane Vereen comes in and burns us for THREE TDs!

Who the hell was Shane Vereen?!?!

He is the dude Pollard knocked the heck out!