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Wolf6151
03-29-2013, 05:01 PM
This guy didn't work out at the Combine due to swelling in his knee. From what I read at the time it was caused by working out to hard, whatever that is. Now he's also missed Cal's Pro Day workout due to knee injury. Does anyone have better info. or know what knee injury this guy has really suffered? He has a private workout scheduled for April 9th. Am I the only one beginning to think his knee injury might be more than some minor swelling since it's taking months to heal?

76Texan
03-29-2013, 05:08 PM
This guy didn't work out at the Combine due to swelling in his knee. From what I read at the time it was caused by working out to hard, whatever that is. Now he's also missed Cal's Pro Day workout due to knee injury. Does anyone have better info. or know what knee injury this guy has really suffered? He has a private workout scheduled for April 9th. Am I the only one beginning to think his knee injury might be more than some minor swelling since it's taking months to heal?

He had planned to skip the Cal's Pro Day.
I wonder who will throw for him at the private work out.
Perhaps he wants somebody better than Maynard, LOL.

IDEXAN
03-29-2013, 10:34 PM
This is basically the #3 WR out there, right ?

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2013, 11:25 PM
This is basically the #3 WR out there, right ?

Depends on whose rankings you're looking at.

I think Mayock has him at #4 behind Deandre Hopkins. Walterfootball has him #3.

mussop
03-30-2013, 06:25 AM
Gil Brandt.

"I'm not as enthusiastic about Cal wide receiver Keenan Allen as others are, which is why I don't have him going in the first round."

No Brainer huh!:kitten:

Lucky
03-30-2013, 08:54 AM
Does anyone have better info. or know what knee injury this guy has really suffered? He has a private workout scheduled for April 9th. Am I the only one beginning to think his knee injury might be more than some minor swelling since it's taking months to heal?
PCL on his left knee. Allen is scheduled to visit the famous Dr. Andrews to check out the knee. Clearly, this is troubling to some teams. I think someone in the late 1st or early 2nd will get a steal, because Allen is the most polished, pro ready WR in this draft.

IDEXAN
03-30-2013, 09:13 AM
Allen is the most polished, pro ready WR in this draft.
I thought that guy was Deandre Hopkins ?

Playoffs
03-30-2013, 10:19 AM
...Allen is the most polished, pro ready WR in this draft.I thought that guy was Deandre Hopkins ?

Allen is tops playing in/finding space, Hopkins I like better snatching it in coverage. Add them together and you get 85% AJ.

I'm very concerned about Allen's knee, though, and I'd like more info on what his ankle surgey was before the 2012 season too.

beerlover
03-30-2013, 12:15 PM
Allen is tops playing in/finding space, Hopkins I like better snatching it in coverage. Add them together and you get 85% AJ.

I'm very concerned about Allen's knee, though, and I'd like more info on what his ankle surgey was before the 2012 season too.

PCL on his left knee. Allen is scheduled to visit the famous Dr. Andrews to check out the knee.

Feel like a broken record here, many people have their minds made up already who haven't actually even seen him play. You know that little hitch route that is so effective for Schaub to Johnson, where Andre creates yards after the catch? this is what Allen excells at as well. I've made pro comparisons but apparently people choose not to read or believe in what I'm trying to communicate. Failure on my part I guess, getting tired of this whole process, guess that's to be expected after going at it past 10 years, just usually more educated posters in draft forum. There should really be no confusion with this WR class :thinking:

IDEXAN
03-30-2013, 01:10 PM
Feel like a broken record here, many people have their minds made up already who haven't actually even seen him play. You know that little hitch route that is so effective for Schaub to Johnson, where Andre creates yards after the catch? this is what Allen excells at as well. I've made pro comparisons but apparently people choose not to read or believe in what I'm trying to communicate. Failure on my part I guess, getting tired of this whole process, guess that's to be expected after going at it past 10 years, just usually more educated posters in draft forum. There should really be no confusion with this WR class :thinking:
So it sounds like you are very big on Allen if you make any comparisons between him and AJ and would be delighted if the Texans got him ?
I don't follow college ball very much at all so I'm interested in what guys like you think about Draft prospects especially for the Texans since you know the players coming out. I've not seen any of these guys play, so I'm all ears when it comes to evaluations of the WRs this year since the Texans need help there so badly.

steelbtexan
03-30-2013, 01:21 PM
So it sounds like you are very big on Allen if you make any comparisons between him and AJ and would be delighted if the Texans got him ?
I don't follow college ball very much at all so I'm interested in what guys like you think about Draft prospects especially for the Texans since you know the players coming out. I've not seen any of these guys play, so I'm all ears when it comes to evaluations of the WRs this year since the Texans need help there so badly.

Great player

But avg speed and knee/ankle injuries in college and avg speed to begin with = 2nd rd IMHO.

mussop
03-30-2013, 04:20 PM
Feel like a broken record here, many people have their minds made up already who haven't actually even seen him play. You know that little hitch route that is so effective for Schaub to Johnson, where Andre creates yards after the catch? this is what Allen excells at as well. I've made pro comparisons but apparently people choose not to read or believe in what I'm trying to communicate. Failure on my part I guess, getting tired of this whole process, guess that's to be expected after going at it past 10 years, just usually more educated posters in draft forum. There should really be no confusion with this DWR class :thinking:

Yeh I guess Gill Brandt has never watched film on Allen. Guess he isn't educated enough. From now on we all should just take your word for it. :vincepalm:

beerlover
03-30-2013, 06:56 PM
Yeh I guess Gill Brandt has never watched film on Allen. Guess he isn't educated enough. From now on we all should just take your word for it. :vincepalm:

that's more like it :nicedog:

badboy
03-30-2013, 07:10 PM
Three WRs in this draft that could eventually replace AJ: Allen (if knee 100%), Patterson (if interviews were not a sign of behavioral issues) and Da'Rick Rogers (if he is past his toking days). Andre Hopkins is just below them and almost same speed as Allen.

beerlover
03-30-2013, 07:27 PM
couple days ago- http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/03/road-to-the-draft-keenan-allen.html

I guess every fan base see something different, he compares him to a different Andre, Andre Reed who was their stud back in the day. Reed ranks near the top in nearly all NFL career statistical receiving categories. He went over 1000 yards four times in a 16 year career, is tenth in NFL history in total career receptions with 951 (behind only Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Hines Ward, Randy Moss, Tony Gonzalez, Terrell Owens, and Marvin Harrison), ninth in NFL history in total career receiving yards with 13,198. Reed is also eleventh in NFL history in total career touchdown receptions with 87.

It's been awhile but what I remember, Reed was the Bills & Jim Kelly go to guy. Productive, dependable & capable of big plays. Both play a physical style & willing to go over the middle & take a hit without losing ball control. Of course that was then Keenan is like Andre Reed would be evolved with the game 20 years later. So it's a decent comp. very flattering actually. I would think most old Oilier fans would shutter to remember this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Comeback_(American_football) :facepalm:

Insideop
03-31-2013, 09:41 PM
Three WRs in this draft that could eventually replace AJ: Allen (if knee 100%), Patterson (if interviews were not a sign of behavioral issues) and Da'Rick Rogers (if he is past his toking days). Andre Hopkins is just below them and almost same speed as Allen.

This is a deep draft for WR. But, there are no superstars like AJ, Megatron, Green, etc.... To me the Texans shouldn't try to replace AJ in this draft, they should replace Kevin Walter. Get someone who can step in right away and play the #2 spot today and get AJ's replacement when there's someone with AJ's size and talent.

infantrycak
03-31-2013, 10:01 PM
This is a deep draft for WR. But, there are no superstars like AJ, Megatron, Green, etc....

This. People need to just stop talking about X guy has a chance of replacing AJ. If anyone from this draft class every produces like AJ it will be a fluke. This is a crud class of QB's so should be an easy class for WR's to not get pushed down. Instead nobody is being discussed as a top pick.

beerlover
03-31-2013, 10:40 PM
This. People need to just stop talking about X guy has a chance of replacing AJ. If anyone from this draft class every produces like AJ it will be a fluke. This is a crud class of QB's so should be an easy class for WR's to not get pushed down. Instead nobody is being discussed as a top pick.

nobody is suggesting this WR class has even a top 10 pick, what this class does have is several prospects who would compliment AJ now, be productive sooner than later & possibly become the Texans future #1 when Andre hangs em up. Nothing more or less, same can be said for QB position. I don't think there should be a top 10 QB prospect this year, like you said it's a crud class, but teams who need to address this particular position still will target player X because of weakness in that area, only so many with next level ability, supply & demand. We could argue rest of year what Texans priority position actually is, most seem to agree that WR positions align with grade & need. One could argue Matt Schaub is good enough to lead Texans to a Superbowl but he just needs another WR threat, so teams cannot just focus on taking Foster & Johnson out of the offense. Someone else might feel that it's on Schaub that he has weapons but fails to flash ability to extend plays under pressure, making QB an even greater need. Yet many others who follow Texans feel it will be a defensive selection, that the offense is not that far of the mark & besides addition of Reed lack pass rush with exodus of Barwin & injury to Cushing/Reed or disruptive nose guard to penetrate middle of offensive line who warrants double teams.

BL :wesmantexanfan:

powda
03-31-2013, 11:00 PM
Allen strikes me as a very good possession receiver who wont stretch the defense. He may be an outstanding pro but not the guy who's going to strike fear into the heart of any dc. He seems SAFE (assuming ofcourse his knee checks out.)

IDEXAN
04-01-2013, 08:51 AM
I still think the Texans very likely will leverage the depth of this WR class and wait for the second round to take a receiver if the guy they want the most isn't on the Board at 27 or if there is no receiver they really want that badly anyway. Plus with 4 picks in the first 3 rounds (and 5 in the first 4), they might even draft 2 WRs within their top 4 or 5 picks. Up to now Rick Smith has not been the type to reach for a prospect or to move up in the Draft.

IDEXAN
04-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Mayock timed Allen at 4.71 and 4.75
http://fansided.com/2013/04/09/keenan-allen-runs-4-7-40-yard-dash-at-pro-day/
*****************************
Know he's been injured, but that is slow !

Lucky
04-09-2013, 12:39 PM
Mayock timed Allen at 4.71 and 4.75
http://fansided.com/2013/04/09/keenan-allen-runs-4-7-40-yard-dash-at-pro-day/
*****************************
Know he's been injured, but that is slow !
Allen is obviously still injured. His agent shouldn't have let him run.

Mr teX
04-09-2013, 12:45 PM
Mayock timed Allen at 4.71 and 4.75
http://fansided.com/2013/04/09/keenan-allen-runs-4-7-40-yard-dash-at-pro-day/
*****************************
Know he's been injured, but that is slow !

Yeah that's terrible...Mike Williams from USC terrible......but it backs up what i see from him when watch tape. People get quickness and fast mixed up. Allen's got slightly above average quickness...but he's not fast. That doesn't make for a great #1 or #2 imo.

The Pencil Neck
04-09-2013, 01:07 PM
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7, right?

beerlover
04-09-2013, 01:30 PM
He will be there #27 so will Texans select him?

Mr teX
04-09-2013, 01:43 PM
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7, right?

Jerry was actually faster....4.5-6 i believe...in any event, lol at comparing the GOAT wr to an incoming rookie with knee issues.

The Pencil Neck
04-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Jerry was actually faster....4.5-6 i believe...in any event, lol at comparing the GOAT wr to an incoming rookie with knee issues.

According to reports, Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. And in your opinion, that doesn't make for a great #1 or #2.

Arian Foster also ran a bad 40 time... because he was injured and decided to run. I don't know if Keenan Allen is going to be any good or not. But you can't just look at a 40 time and figure it out. Especially a 40 time run by a guy that's injured.

badboy
04-09-2013, 03:21 PM
I am much more concerned at how many regular season games before Allen can contribute? Lestar Jean comes to mind.

Mr teX
04-09-2013, 03:31 PM
According to reports, Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. And in your opinion, that doesn't make for a great #1 or #2.

Arian Foster also ran a bad 40 time... because he was injured and decided to run. I don't know if Keenan Allen is going to be any good or not. But you can't just look at a 40 time and figure it out. Especially a 40 time run by a guy that's injured.

ehh, point taken..i'm just weary of drafting a guy that i feel isn't going to be able to separate with his long speed. cb's tend to want to sit on routes and jam you up at the LOS when they're not afraid of you running past them. To be able to get deep on a consistent basis with that kind of long speed you've got to be a technician as far as running routes is concerned. Jerry and Larry Fitzgerald come to mind...I don't see that with this kid.....imo of course.

Maybe i'm wrong....i didn't want the texans to draft JJ Watt..thought he was a lumbering, try-hard.....needless to say......................:vincepalm::mariopalm:

76Texan
04-09-2013, 04:12 PM
His movement are so sudden; as a CB they can't sit back in a cushion.
When they hesitate for a fraction, Allen has that second gear that will burn you before you know it.

Like Mayock said; watching the tapes he's a 4.55 guy all day long.

Personally, I think Allen is a low 4.5 guy, at least.

rmartin65
04-09-2013, 04:32 PM
Not concerned at all. It was a bad move by his agent to let him workout. Allen will be a good receiver in the pros. Maybe not great, but he will play for a long time (barring injuries).

IDEXAN
04-09-2013, 05:06 PM
i'm just weary of drafting a guy that i feel isn't going to be able to separate with his long speed.
And that's what we'd miss with Allen. It's not everything, but it's important if you want a WR with enough speed to atleast make the deep safety fade a bit when he's going deep to help the corner over top. And Robert Woods gives you that, I'm sure hoping we have a chance to take him.

powda
04-09-2013, 06:38 PM
Allen is probably a safe pick, but if he doesn't threaten deep I dont see a new dimension added. I'm looking for Hunter or Woods in the first, and Williams or Wheaton in the 2nd. I'm ok with selecting a boom or bust pick because at some point Posey will be comming back. I guess I think of that as a fail safe.

Who would be our starters today? Aj and....jean or martin? Am I missing someone? Seems to me we almost HAVE TO draft a wr early and another late for insurance.

steelbtexan
04-09-2013, 07:36 PM
Allen is probably a safe pick, but if he doesn't threaten deep I dont see a new dimension added. I'm looking for Hunter or Woods in the first, and Williams or Wheaton in the 2nd. I'm ok with selecting a boom or bust pick because at some point Posey will be comming back. I guess I think of that as a fail safe.

Who would be our starters today? Aj and....jean or martin? Am I missing someone? Seems to me we almost HAVE TO draft a wr early and another late for insurance.

^^^^
This

Allen, slow injury prone= pass

I wouldn't have a problem drafting 2 WR's in rds 1-3. It's time to give Schaub the weapons he needs, so that we can find out if Schaub's the problem or the answer.

76Texan
04-09-2013, 07:36 PM
If speed is your primary concern then there are plenty in this draft such that you don't have to reach for any guy.

And I'm not saying the guys you look at late has nothing but speed.

This draft class is so deep at WR, there's no telling how their careers will end up.

If we take the TT Mock Draft as a barometer, I'm thinking at least one of the guys who have yet to be taken can end up being at least a solid #2 receiver some time down the road. When I have some time, I'll give their cases.

We're in round six now, and I just picked up Cobi Hamilton who has that upside.

powda
04-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Gimme a nose tackle in the first...take advantage of the deep class and get a quality wr talent in the 2nd. Add in another wr between the 5th and 7th. Sprinkle in some linebackers and a safety along the way. Done.

Honoring Earl 34
04-09-2013, 08:01 PM
I think some conferences are slower than others by far . A guy from the Big 12 tears it up , gets drafted high , and is ok at best . SEC and ACC guys seem to play faster .

steelbtexan
04-09-2013, 08:04 PM
Gimme a nose tackle in the first...take advantage of the deep class and get a quality wr talent in the 2nd. Add in another wr between the 5th and 7th. Sprinkle in some linebackers and a safety along the way. Done.

Seems like a great plan to me.

I think they invest a 3rd on an OT also.

I'm going to do a mock draft soon and there should be WR's better than Jean/Martin available in rd 5. Unfortunately my mock will look alot like Corrosion's TT Mock Draft.

Honoring Earl 34
04-09-2013, 08:09 PM
Seems like a great plan to me.

I think they invest a 3rd on an OT also.

I'm going to do a mock draft soon and there should be WR's better than Jean/Martin available in rd 5. Unfortunately my mock will look alot like Corrosion's TT Mock Draft.

But Jean Martin sounds like a pirate name .

I think WR does have a lot of depth with little separation between them . I could see them loving a player at one of the following , NT , OLB , WR , TE . I left of DE and ILB cause JJ and Cush will cost them and you'll have to spread out the money .

beerlover
04-09-2013, 08:14 PM
Quicker y'all learn to accept him the easier his transition. Fate has aligned in Texans favor once again :bubbles:

powda
04-09-2013, 08:34 PM
I think they invest a 3rd on an OT also.

Yup. Dont want a guard out of the draft. I want somebody with tackle feet. I feel like if worse comes to worse you've got a starting guard out of brooks, jones, mondek, or even Newton if need be. I dont think you can plug brooks or jones in at tackle. So gimme a tackle in the 3rd or 4th.

Lucky
04-09-2013, 09:09 PM
I just timed Allen on this play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpi9BMi9Ck) in fastenough.90. BTW, that's 1st lock CB Desmond Trufant (#6) in pursuit.

I like Allen, and if healthy would make a great pick @27. But, he's not healthy. This team is has a window and I don't think it needs to swing for the fence with high risk picks, be it injury or character concerns. That's why I would lean at this point to DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods at WR. They both have the talent and the production to project as a solid #2 WR, at least. And using scouting terminology, they're "clean" prospects. I think the Texans have to go "clean".

badboy
04-09-2013, 09:13 PM
^^^^
This

Allen, slow injury prone= pass

I wouldn't have a problem drafting 2 WR's in rds 1-3. It's time to give Schaub the weapons he needs, so that we can find out if Schaub's the problem or the answer.What other injuries has he had? One injury does not make a player injury prone. You are going to have to come with some facts to support that. Keenan turns 21 April 27th which is another plus. He uses his hands as well if not better than any other WR. Doesn't matter how fast you are (and I am a speed guy)if you cannot catch the rock. Also, he is very good at running his route then breaking out past the defender. He has the skills to be a #1.

powda
04-09-2013, 10:06 PM
What other injuries has he had? One injury does not make a player injury prone. You are going to have to come with some facts to support that. Keenan turns 21 April 27th which is another plus. He uses his hands as well if not better than any other WR. Doesn't matter how fast you are (and I am a speed guy)if you cannot catch the rock. Also, he is very good at running his route then breaking out past the defender. He has the skills to be a #1.

How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.

Playoffs
04-09-2013, 10:31 PM
He will be there #27 so will Texans select him?

I think this bumps him down to 2nd round.

This close to the draft and still unable to answer the bell -- I can't invest a 1st in such a fluid injury status.

More reason to trade down.

Lucky
04-09-2013, 10:45 PM
I'm ok with selecting a boom or bust pick because at some point Posey will be comming back. I guess I think of that as a fail safe.
See I'm thinking exactly the opposite. Posey sat out much of his last college season. Played little in his rookie year, then was injured. And now is looking at missing his 2nd pro season. If the Texans ever get anything out of Posey, that's the bonus. And that's why they need a sure thing in this draft.

badboy
04-09-2013, 10:47 PM
How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.He's been hampered by a posterior cruciate ligament injury throughout the draft process, but doctors now describe Allen's left knee as fully healthy after he re-injured it in January. Trainers told Mayock that Allen only has 75 percent to 80 percent of his explosion, but said "that's what comes last" in the healing process. Allen recently told The Sacramento Bee that he's only about 85 percent back.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158580/article/keenan-allen-clocks-471-in-40-mayock-doesnt-care

I don't want to print entire article but no one seems to be posting what else Mayock said. Let's get it all on the table:
"Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's Anquan Boldin. If you don't like him, he's speed-deficient. So I don't really care what he runs in the 40. On tape, to me, he's a 4.55 guy all day long."

Mayock called Allen's 40 results "not a good time," but scouts and coaches told him they expect Allen to be faster down the road. What he gives you, according to Mayock, is "a big, powerful, wide receiver" who might go anywhere from No. 25 to No. 45 in the 2013 NFL Draft.

"I believe in his toughness and his hands," Mayock said, confirming that he would, indeed, "bang the table" for Allen (and in Mayock's universe, that's a compliment of the highest order).

76Texan
04-09-2013, 10:55 PM
I think some conferences are slower than others by far . A guy from the Big 12 tears it up , gets drafted high , and is ok at best . SEC and ACC guys seem to play faster .

There are individual talents everywhere.
How many teams does the SEC has?
The percentage may still be high, but they are not as far apart as one may think.

The Big 10, for example, has been producing a lot of draftable linemen.

Honoring Earl 34
04-09-2013, 11:02 PM
There are individual talents everywhere.
How many teams does the SEC has?
The percentage may still be high, but they are not as far apart as one may think.

The Big 10, for example, has been producing a lot of draftable linemen.

I was thinking more of WR / CB types .

Lucky
04-09-2013, 11:09 PM
"Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's Anquan Boldin..."I'm not knocking Allen (or Boldin). But Allen is not a similar type WR as Anquan Boldin. Not the Boldin of today or the Boldin of the 2003 draft. They're similar in that they both battled knee injuries during their respective draft periods. Boldin is much more physical, while Allen relies on quickness.

If I were going to compare a WR prospect to Allen, it would be former Seahawk Koren Robinson. Good size, but very quick with excellent run after catch ability. Unfortunately, drug issues and later a knee injury cut Robinson's career short. He could have been a Pro Bowl WR.

steelbtexan
04-09-2013, 11:11 PM
How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.

Yep,

In the 2 games I've seen Allen, he's an underneath guy. I was hoping that they used him running the underneath stuff so that they could get the ball in his hands and not because he was speed deficient. After today my concerns have been validated. Dude can break tackles after the catch. But unless his speed improves he wil struggle in the pros.

Can somebody point me to a video where Allen runs a 9 route and blows by the CB/S?

He's a good WR, but doesn't stretch the field and the Texans need somebody that can strike fear into a defense. The WR doesn't have to be all-world, a T.Y. Hilton would suffice.

The guys I see that most closely resembles this type of WR are Hunter/Dobson/Goodwin/Nwachukwu. These guys could be had early and late.

If you want to give me Allen in the 2nd and Goodwin in the 4th I could get on board with that. Then you would have your slot guy (Allen) and your speed guy Goodwin to go along with AJ. These are the types of weapons that Schaub has been lacking.

powda
04-09-2013, 11:24 PM
See I'm thinking exactly the opposite. Posey sat out much of his last college season. Played little in his rookie year, then was injured. And now is looking at missing his 2nd pro season. If the Texans ever get anything out of Posey, that's the bonus. And that's why they need a sure thing in this draft.

I dont expect any rookie wr to make an instant impact despite the recent success of jones & green. I feel about the time somone like allen will have given us an indication of his boom or bust potential, Posey will be back. The natural rookie integration period is going to be there regardless...so aim high. I was impressed with Posey and think he'll be ir'd till late season when he's eligible to come back. Jmo.

If we had someone like Torey Smith here i'd love Allen. We don't.


Badboy, damn good post.

badboy
04-09-2013, 11:39 PM
Yep,

In the 2 games I've seen Allen, he's an underneath guy. I was hoping that they used him running the underneath stuff so that they could get the ball in his hands and not because he was speed deficient. After today my concerns have been validated. Dude can break tackles after the catch. But unless his speed improves he wil struggle in the pros.

Can somebody point me to a video where Allen runs a 9 route and blows by the CB/S?

He's a good WR, but doesn't stretch the field and the Texans need somebody that can strike fear into a defense. The WR doesn't have to be all-world, a T.Y. Hilton would suffice.

The guys I see that most closely resembles this type of WR are Hunter/Dobson/Goodwin/Nwachukwu. These guys could be had early and late.

If you want to give me Allen in the 2nd and Goodwin in the 4th I could get on board with that. Then you would have your slot guy (Allen) and your speed guy Goodwin to go along with AJ. These are the types of weapons that Schaub has been lacking.What you get with Allen is a WR that runs with the DB, breaks loose keeping his body between the football and defender, catches it almost all the time and averages 12 yards. If you want a burner with deep stretch go with Terrence Williams. If you want a WR that is super solid in the areas Schaub like to throw go with Allen. If you want a WR that does it all, Da'Rick Rogers.

steelbtexan
04-09-2013, 11:55 PM
What you get with Allen is a WR that runs with the DB, breaks loose keeping his body between the football and defender, catches it almost all the time and averages 12 yards. If you want a burner with deep stretch go with Terrence Williams. If you want a WR that is super solid in the areas Schaub like to throw go with Allen. If you want a WR that does it all, Da'Rick Rogers.

Agreed,

I hope Rodgers is there in the 2nd and BoB lets Rick/Gary draft him. If Rodgers is drafted I still want a speed guy in the later rds.

beerlover
04-10-2013, 02:15 AM
I think this bumps him down to 2nd round.

This close to the draft and still unable to answer the bell -- I can't invest a 1st in such a fluid injury status.

More reason to trade down.

He has a first/second round grade. Guess what this means is a team needing WR help, like the Texans, would have to consider him a first round talent, while a team like the Giants would probably pass onto the second round being that WR is not that big of need for them.

As a would be scout, I would say his skill set, size & athletic ability matches up with what's expected of a first round WR talent. Unfortunate for him he got injured going into the biggest financial year of his life. I've watched a lot of tape of Keenan & he is often exposed because he was constantly targeted & Cal did not spread the ball around typical Tedford style.

Bottom line when he is fully recovered & that knee is stronger than ever it will be right around pre-season so he will get plenty of reps, fill in for Posey/Walter & most defiantly have an impact even early on. He is a tremendous talent & excellent character kid for Andre Johnson to mold.

otisbean
04-10-2013, 05:22 AM
I just timed Allen on this play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpi9BMi9Ck) in fastenough.90. BTW, that's 1st lock CB Desmond Trufant (#6) in pursuit.

I like Allen, and if healthy would make a great pick @27. But, he's not healthy. This team is has a window and I don't think it needs to swing for the fence with high risk picks, be it injury or character concerns. That's why I would lean at this point to DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods at WR. They both have the talent and the production to project as a solid #2 WR, at least. And using scouting terminology, they're "clean" prospects. I think the Texans have to go "clean".

I agree. As a ND fan it pains me to say this, but Woods would be a great choice. He's coming off a down year numbers wise, due to an injury, the emergence of Lee and some spotty QB play, but he has a LOT of talent and would be an awesome #2 WR. I'd really love it if we could trade down and pick up an extra 3rd and grab Woods in the process.

Wolf6151
04-10-2013, 06:00 AM
Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?

otisbean
04-10-2013, 07:43 AM
Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?

I would bet they do, I believe I've heard of teams conducting their own tests, x-rays, MRIs ect.. It would be tough to commit big $$$ to a player without knowing their medical history

IDEXAN
04-10-2013, 08:08 AM
If I were going to compare a WR prospect to Allen, it would be former Seahawk Koren Robinson. Good size, but very quick with excellent run after catch ability.
NFL COMPARISON Jordy Nelson
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/keenan-allen?id=2540154
So if we are making comparisons of Draft prospects to active NFL players, NFL.Com compares Allen to Jordy Nelson, FWIW ?
And sorry, gotta keep beating the drum for Robert Woods if you want a player with real
sprinter-track speed who's also a legit WR, because he's the only one who really qualifies IMO other than Cordarrelle Patterson whom will be selected very early in the Draft well before the Texans choice.

The Pencil Neck
04-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?

That's one of the purposes of the Combine.

They give all these guys physicals and if they have a history of injuries, they get X Rays and MRIs to evaluate their current status. This information is released to all the teams.

When prospects make visits to particular teams, those teams can have their own doctors take a look.

badboy
04-10-2013, 10:46 PM
NFL COMPARISON Jordy Nelson
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/keenan-allen?id=2540154
So if we are making comparisons of Draft prospects to active NFL players, NFL.Com compares Allen to Jordy Nelson, FWIW ?
And sorry, gotta keep beating the drum for Robert Woods if you want a player with real
sprinter-track speed who's also a legit WR, because he's the only one who really qualifies IMO other than Cordarrelle Patterson whom will be selected very early in the Draft well before the Texans choice.
What are you talking about?
Da'rick Rogers 4.43
Terrence Williams 4.48
Quinton Patton 4.48
Justin Hunter 4.36
Aaron Dobson 4.43

Most are as big if not bigger. All are good receivers. Woods is good but not the only one.

IDEXAN
04-10-2013, 11:26 PM
What are you talking about?
Da'rick Rogers 4.43
Terrence Williams 4.48
Quinton Patton 4.48
Justin Hunter 4.36
Aaron Dobson 4.43

Most are as big if not bigger. All are good receivers. Woods is good but not the only one.
He has bests of 21.01 in the 200 (fourth fastest in the nation in 2010) and 46.17 in the 400 (second fastest in the nation in 2010)
http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/woods_robert00.html
*********************
That's real top-end speed, the kind needed to create real seperation on a fly-route against a fast corner. And go look at some tape on Woods, he's got everything needed to be a #1 WR in the NFL.

rmartin65
04-11-2013, 07:59 AM
He has bests of 21.01 in the 200 (fourth fastest in the nation in 2010) and 46.17 in the 400 (second fastest in the nation in 2010)
http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/woods_robert00.html
*********************
That's real top-end speed, the kind needed to create real seperation on a fly-route against a fast corner. And go look at some tape on Woods, he's got everything needed to be a #1 WR in the NFL.

When the field becomes 200 or 400 meters long, Woods will be my guy.

Woods is not a burner. He gets the job done due to shiftiness, body control, and hands. I am a big fan, but you are banging on the wrong drum IMO.

IDEXAN
04-11-2013, 08:13 AM
When the field becomes 200 or 400 meters long, Woods will be my guy.

Woods is not a burner. He gets the job done due to shiftiness, body control, and hands. I am a big fan, but you are banging on the wrong drum IMO.
There's the initial burst at the los when the ball is snapped which is an indication of exlosiveness, then there's the long-sprint down the field by receivers on deep routes where a 200 time is perhaps even more indicative of top-end speed needed to seperate from the DB coverage.

rmartin65
04-11-2013, 08:36 AM
There's the initial burst at the los when the ball is snapped which is an indication of exlosiveness, then there's the long-sprint down the field by receivers on deep routes where a 200 time is perhaps even more indicative of top-end speed needed to seperate from the DB coverage.

Routes longer than 40 yards are pretty rare. I think 40 yards is just fine for testing someone's deep speed. If you need those 40 yards to get passed someone, you wont be a good receiver in the NFL.

The initial burst and "wiggle" are far more important.

Playoffs
04-11-2013, 09:32 AM
What are you talking about?
Da'rick Rogers 4.43
Terrence Williams 4.48
Quinton Patton 4.48
Justin Hunter 4.36
Aaron Dobson 4.43

Most are as big if not bigger. All are good receivers. Woods is good but not the only one.

Yeah, but what are their 200 meter times? :truck:

Rey
04-11-2013, 09:48 AM
I like Allen, but I like other guys more...

He's a good player though...

IDEXAN
04-11-2013, 10:24 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1599203-minnesota-vikings-2013-draft-board-the-pros-and-cons-of-keenan-allens-game
************************************************** *****
Here's an excellent "pros & cons" breakdown on Allen at one site.

76Texan
04-11-2013, 10:54 AM
Idexan, on the other hand, Hunter is a good athlete in long jump and high jump.


Hunter attended Ocean Lakes High School in Virginia Beach, Virginia. He was ranked as the eighth best wide receiver recruit in his class by Rivals.com. Hunter was also a standout in track and field. As a junior in 2009, Hunter won the state title in both the long jump,and high jump. As a senior in 2010, he won the state title in the long jump,high jump,and triple jump. Hunter was the 2010 USA junior national champion in the long jump, and represented the USA at the 2010 IAAF World Junior Championships

Insideop
04-12-2013, 04:56 PM
I just timed Allen on this play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMpi9BMi9Ck) in fastenough.90. BTW, that's 1st lock CB Desmond Trufant (#6) in pursuit.

I like Allen, and if healthy would make a great pick @27. But, he's not healthy. This team is has a window and I don't think it needs to swing for the fence with high risk picks, be it injury or character concerns. That's why I would lean at this point to DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods at WR. They both have the talent and the production to project as a solid #2 WR, at least. And using scouting terminology, they're "clean" prospects. I think the Texans have to go "clean".

I have to agree with this. I am a fan of Allen and wanted the Texans to draft him, but with this speed/injury concern maybe they should change their focus more to Hopkins or Woods. Hopkins has always been high on my list anyway, and I think he is more physical and has better hands than Allen or Woods. Still, in a couple of weeks when the Draft is upon us, if Allen, Woods, and Hopkins are all there at #27, I wonder what the Texans would do.