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View Full Version : Texans cap space, as of March 26


srrono
03-28-2013, 12:47 AM
PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/27/team-by-team-cap-space-as-of-march-26/)

Bengals: $28.9 million.

Browns: $28.7 million.

Buccaneers: $28.8 million.

Jaguars: $26.6 million.

Eagles: $26.3 million.

Packers: $18.3 million.

Bills: $16.8 million.

Dolphins: $15.7 million.

Cardinals: $14.0 million.

Patriots: $13.4 million.

Jets: $13.0 million.

Colts: $11.7 million.

Titans: $10.7 million.

Broncos: $8.8 million.

Lions: $7.2 million.

Ravens: $7.2 million.

Chargers: $7.0 million.

Seahawks: $6.8 million.

Falcons: $6.2 million.

Bears: $5.3 million.

Vikings: $5.1 million.

Texans: $4.9 million.

Giants: $4.5 million.

49ers: $4.5 million.

Saints: $3.3 million.

Redskins: $3.2 million.

Chiefs: $3.1 million.

Raiders: $2.8 million.

Steelers: $2.5 million.

Rams: $1.0 million.

Panthers: $936,000.

Cowboys: $51,000.

badboy
03-28-2013, 08:53 AM
that did not include the FB Jones correct?

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 08:56 AM
that did not include the FB Jones correct?

Probably not since Jones signed on the 27th and this number was "as of March 26th"


Basically they have their rookie pool money available.


The good news is that they havent reworked or extended any deals and still have the ability to do so if the need should arise tho I dont think they want to if they can help it.

badboy
03-28-2013, 09:07 AM
Probably not since Jones signed on the 27th and this number was "as of March 26th"


Basically they have their rookie pool money available.


The good news is that they havent reworked or extended any deals and still have the ability to do so if the need should arise tho I dont think they want to if they can help it.That confirms my thoughts. I am mildly surprised they did not rework Antonio's last year of his deal. I could see them adding 2 years but maybe they would rather go with Crick or Mitchell or even a draft pick in 2014. Of course, if not going after a high $ FA why do that?

If April goes the way I hope, I see a QB, DE (Smith), OG (Smith), ILB?) and CB
in '14.

Dutchrudder
03-28-2013, 09:34 AM
That confirms my thoughts. I am mildly surprised they did not rework Antonio's last year of his deal. I could see them adding 2 years but maybe they would rather go with Crick or Mitchell or even a draft pick in 2014. Of course, if not going after a high $ FA why do that?

If April goes the way I hope, I see a QB, DE (Smith), OG (Smith), ILB?) and CB
in '14.

I would guess it has more to do with Antonio and his agent wanting to wait for free agency next year to see what he's actually worth. He will be semi-old, but he's been productive and could get a deal like Kyle Vanden Bosch did a couple years ago. Dude was 31 and got 4 years 26m from the Lions.

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 09:41 AM
I would guess it has more to do with Antonio and his agent wanting to wait for free agency next year to see what he's actually worth. He will be semi-old, but he's been productive and could get a deal like Kyle Vanden Bosch did a couple years ago. Dude was 31 and got 4 years 26m from the Lions.

I think it has just as much to do with the team not wanting to push money into the cap of future years. That could hinder both future improvement and their ability to resign their own FA's in Watt , KJax and Cushing ....


You look at their cap situation , they have next to no dead money and the cap should increase significantly in the next two years with the new TV deals kicking in. They'll be in prime position cap wise ....

76Texan
03-28-2013, 09:48 AM
I think it has just as much to do with the team not wanting to push money into the cap of future years. That could hinder both future improvement and their ability to resign their own FA's in Watt , KJax and Cushing ....


You look at their cap situation , they have next to no dead money and the cap should increase significantly in the next two years with the new TV deals kicking in. They'll be in prime position cap wise ....

I've heard that the cap should remain fairly flat at least through 2015.

TexanBacker93
03-28-2013, 09:49 AM
I would guess it has more to do with Antonio and his agent wanting to wait for free agency next year to see what he's actually worth. He will be semi-old, but he's been productive and could get a deal like Kyle Vanden Bosch did a couple years ago. Dude was 31 and got 4 years 26m from the Lions.

Although if he and his agent pay attention to today's NFL they'd see that guys on the other side of 30 aren't getting long term high $$ deals. That's reserved for the guys coming off their rookie contracts. The most Antonio would probably get would be 3 years $9 million tops. Well, that's my thought based on how this offseason is going at least.

TexanSam
03-28-2013, 10:02 AM
You look at their cap situation , they have next to no dead money and the cap should increase significantly in the next two years with the new TV deals kicking in. They'll be in prime position cap wise ....

That may not be the case actually. Robert Kraft thinks the cap will increase gradually instead of a giant increase like many people thought would happen.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/3/26/2902472/will-the-2014-nfl-salary-cap-actually-increase-dramatically

New England Patriots owner Bob Kraft, who spoke last Thursday at an event at Gillette Stadium, appears to not believe the salary cap will dramatically increase in 2014.

"I don't really see that happening," Kraft stated. "I don't think what happened in 2006 will happen in the future here, because if you understand the labor agreement and the long-term part of this, there will be a smooth growth. Anyone who assumes huge jumps, I hope they're in our division."

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 10:28 AM
That may not be the case actually. Robert Kraft thinks the cap will increase gradually instead of a giant increase like many people thought would happen.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/3/26/2902472/will-the-2014-nfl-salary-cap-actually-increase-dramatically

Either way , this protects them for the future , allowing them to take care of those players that they must ..... If they push more of AJ's money , or Ninja's money into next years cap .... they could be in a position where they are forced to watch a Cushing or Watt walk.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 10:35 AM
Either way , this protects them for the future , allowing them to take care of those players that they must ..... If they push more of AJ's money , or Ninja's money into next years cap .... they could be in a position where they are forced to watch a Cushing or Watt walk.

I repeat; all they need to do is to cut Schaub. :kitten:

srrono
03-28-2013, 10:35 AM
Either way , this protects them for the future , allowing them to take care of those players that they must ..... If they push more of AJ's money , or Ninja's money into next years cap .... they could be in a position where they are forced to watch a Cushing or Watt walk.

Before Watt or Cushing walks I think Texans would cut or trade AJ.

TexanSam
03-28-2013, 10:43 AM
I repeat; all they need to do is to cut Schaub. :kitten:

It's not going to happen, but let's pretend it did. What would his cap hit be? He has a large contract the next few seasons so wouldn't that just kill the Texans cap room taking on that much dead money?

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 10:44 AM
I repeat; all they need to do is to cut Schaub. :kitten:

To be completely honest , I think they may cut him after this season if he doesnt do three things - Stay healthy , win the division and take them on a deep run , at least the AFC Championship game.


If he fails to do all of the above , he's not the guy to take this team to a :trophy: and its time to find that guy.

If he fails to do all of the above , I think the only thing that can save his roster spot is a weak class of QB's in the draft and FA ... or they cant find a guy they like in a trade similar to the one that brought us Schaub.


This team is built to win now .... and in the future. They can afford to move on from Schaub and still have playmakers at every level on both sides of the ball.

With Schaub I give them no more than a two year window of opportunity but I think they have a 3-5 year window if they are forced to move on (and can upgrade).

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 10:46 AM
It's not going to happen, but let's pretend it did. What would his cap hit be? He has a large contract the next few seasons so wouldn't that just kill the Texans cap room taking on that much dead money?

What did he get ... ~24m guaranteed in the extension ?! How much was up front ?! I cant recall the specifics. I think he has something like a 14m cap figure for next year (maybe more)? That leaves 10m over the life of the deal which would be dead money.

TexanSam
03-28-2013, 10:50 AM
What did he get ... ~24m guaranteed in the extension ?! How much was up front ?! I cant recall the specifics. I think he has something like a 14m cap figure for next year (maybe more)? That leaves 10m over the life of the deal which would be dead money.

This site says his cap hit next season would be $14.5 million, $17 million in 2015, and $19 million in 2016. Is that right? We could be stuck with him for 3 more years...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/

76Texan
03-28-2013, 10:58 AM
Basically it would mean $10.5M of dead money that will hit us in 2014 (and we'll be done with it.

Using the money alloted to pay his salary and roster bonus, the Texans would be left with 500 grands to pay a QB without incurring additional cost.

Or they can save that money to give Keenum a bonus, hint, hint.

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 11:09 AM
This site says his cap hit next season would be $14.5 million, $17 million in 2015, and $19 million in 2016. Is that right? We could be stuck with him for 3 more years...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/


Ok , let me see if I can make this simple -

This years cap figure of 14.5m + any other guaranteed money including signing bonus which would be pro rated should he remain on the roster but hits immediately should he be cut , some of which could have been absorbed last season ....


Guaranteed money ~24m - this years salary of ~14.5m = 9.5m + unpaid signing bonus.


Somewhere around 10m to walk away from Schaub after this season.

They aint taking a cap hit of 17m for Schaub in 2015 ... He restructures if they cant find a replacement.

2slik4u
03-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Probably not since Jones signed on the 27th and this number was "as of March 26th"


Basically they have their rookie pool money available.

The good news is that they havent reworked or extended any deals and still have the ability to do so if the need should arise tho I dont think they want to if they can help it.

So does that mean we do not have anything other than $4.9mil set aside for draft picks/rookies?

76Texan
03-28-2013, 11:26 AM
Ok , let me see if I can make this simple -

This years cap figure of 14.5m + any other guaranteed money including signing bonus which would be pro rated should he remain on the roster but hits immediately should he be cut , some of which could have been absorbed last season ....


Guaranteed money ~24m - this years salary of ~14.5m = 9.5m + unpaid signing bonus.


Somewhere around 10m to walk away from Schaub after this season.

They aint taking a cap hit of 17m for Schaub in 2015 ... He restructures if they cant find a replacement.

What if Schaub becomes Flacco 2.0 and win the SB? :chickendance:

76Texan
03-28-2013, 11:28 AM
So does that mean we do not have anything other than $4.9mil set aside for draft picks/rookies?

Right now our cap already accounts for a 53-man roster.
I estimate that we still have about a mil to spare, unless there's something goofy that is going on.

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 11:29 AM
So does that mean we do not have anything other than $4.9mil set aside for draft picks/rookies?

Pretty much .... tho with the new CBA and "slotted values" , I think they will be Ok.

Its what they do with whats left over that matters.

Thorn
03-28-2013, 11:34 AM
This site says his cap hit next season would be $14.5 million, $17 million in 2015, and $19 million in 2016. Is that right? We could be stuck with him for 3 more years...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/

No way in hell is Schaub worth that kind of money.

ChampionTexan
03-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Basically it would mean $10.5M of dead money that will hit us in 2014 (and we'll be done with it.




They would also have the option of designating him a June 1 cut (or actually cutting him after June 1), in which case, $3.5 Million of the dead money would hit the 2014 cap, and the remaining $7 Million would go against 2015.

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 11:38 AM
Right now our cap already accounts for a 53-man roster.
I estimate that we still have about a mil to spare, unless there's something goofy that is going on.

Unless Im mistaken , the cap only accounts for the top 45 salaries on the roster up to a specific point in time after which it must account for the 53 man roster.



I dont know what this 4.9 figure accounts for. It could be 53 , it could be 45.


The specifics of the cap take a damn rocket scientist to figure out :smiliepalm:


They would also have the option of designating him a June 1 cut (or actually cutting him after June 1), in which case, $3.5 Million of the dead money would hit the 2014 cap, and the remaining $7 Million would go against 2015.


Good point .... tho I dont know how you arrived at the figure. That is an option that would spread dead money out.

ChampionTexan
03-28-2013, 11:46 AM
Right now our cap already accounts for a 53-man roster.


Actually, it accounts for the top 51 salaries. The 53 man cap doesn't kick in until the regular season starts. At that time, in addition to the additional 2 roster spots, the salary cap will also apply to any players on IR and all practice squad salaries.

ChampionTexan
03-28-2013, 11:50 AM
Good point .... tho I dont know how you arrived at the figure. That is an option that would spread dead money out.

The amortization of his signing bonus (per SpotTrac) is $3.5 Million per year ($17.5 Million total - 5 year contract). At the end of 2013, there will be three unamortized years remaining on his contract. All other guaranteed money was in the form of base salary for 2012/2013 and will be completely burned of by the end of this coming season.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 11:56 AM
They would also have the option of designating him a June 1 cut (or actually cutting him after June 1), in which case, $3.5 Million of the dead money would hit the 2014 cap, and the remaining $7 Million would go against 2015.

You're correct. I forgot about that.

Different method of accounting is all.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 11:58 AM
Actually, it accounts for the top 51 salaries. The 53 man cap doesn't kick in until the regular season starts. At that time, in addition to the additional 2 roster spots, the salary cap will also apply to any players on IR and all practice squad salaries.

I understand.
All I mean is that we can start the season right now with enough players and under the cap.

We can sign all of our draft picks and will still be under the cap.

SW H-TOWN
03-28-2013, 12:10 PM
This site says his cap hit next season would be $14.5 million, $17 million in 2015, and $19 million in 2016. Is that right? We could be stuck with him for 3 more years...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/

I do not know the what the cap ramifications would be but I sure am hoping that the Redskins are willing to part ways with Kirk Cousins after next season in exchange for 2 high draft picks and we can part ways with Schuab. That would be ideal.

TexanSam
03-28-2013, 12:22 PM
I do not know the what the cap ramifications would be but I sure am hoping that the Redskins are willing to part ways with Kirk Cousins after next season in exchange for 2 high draft picks and we can part ways with Schuab. That would be ideal.

If RGIII gets hurt again, I don't think they will.

Corrosion
03-28-2013, 12:38 PM
The amortization of his signing bonus (per SpotTrac) is $3.5 Million per year ($17.5 Million total - 5 year contract). At the end of 2013, there will be three unamortized years remaining on his contract. All other guaranteed money was in the form of base salary for 2012/2013 and will be completely burned of by the end of this coming season.

Thanks for doing the leg work on that one .... I wasnt aware of specifics but knew they could get out from under the deal with reasonable cap fatigue after the coming season ..... $10.5 cap hit for 2014 if he's cut after 2013.


I rep'd you for your earlier post .... someone get him for me please.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 12:51 PM
Thanks for doing the leg work on that one .... I wasnt aware of specifics but knew they could get out from under the deal with reasonable cap fatigue after the coming season ..... $10.5 cap hit for 2014 if he's cut after 2013.


I rep'd you for your earlier post .... someone get him for me please.

I've got you covered!

SW H-TOWN
03-28-2013, 02:11 PM
I do not know the what the cap ramifications would be but I sure am hoping that the Redskins are willing to part ways with Kirk Cousins after next season in exchange for 2 high draft picks and we can part ways with Schuab. That would be ideal.

If RGIII gets hurt again, I don't think they will.

Yep but I think they will eventually trade Cousins unless RGIII's career is derailed by multiple injuries. They won't give both QB's a massive contract and there is little to no chance that the Redskins slap a franchise tag on a backup QB. The bad news is that he is under contract for 3 more years. If he plays like he did last year we need to really make a concerted effort to obtain his services.

ASidd_1990
03-29-2013, 12:34 AM
Holy crap, the Bengals still have 29 million dollars in cap space?

Lucky
03-29-2013, 07:00 AM
At that time, in addition to the additional 2 roster spots, the salary cap will also apply to any players on IR and all practice squad salaries.
I believe it is the signing bonus (if any) given to the practice squad player, and not his salary.

$4.9 million isn't much left, considering the Texans still have to reserve cap room for a rookie pool of 9 draft picks. They have more maneuvering to do.

steelbtexan
03-29-2013, 07:32 AM
Thanks for doing the leg work on that one .... I wasnt aware of specifics but knew they could get out from under the deal with reasonable cap fatigue after the coming season ..... $10.5 cap hit for 2014 if he's cut after 2013.


I rep'd you for your earlier post .... someone get him for me please.

Got him

I just hate the way Rick/Olsen spread the $$$$ out over the life of Schaub's contract.

steelbtexan
03-29-2013, 07:34 AM
I believe it is the signing bonus (if any) given to the practice squad player, and not his salary.

$4.9 million isn't much left, considering the Texans still have to reserve cap room for a rookie pool of 9 draft picks. They have more maneuvering to do.

Time to do some restructuring and bring in Casey Hampton as well.

Corrosion
03-29-2013, 08:26 AM
Got him

I just hate the way Rick/Olsen spread the $$$$ out over the life of Schaub's contract.

They have done a real good job with most of their contracts .... the fact that they get walk away from it after a year of the extension with only the bonus money remaining is pretty amazing when you get right down to it.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 08:50 AM
Let's remember that the Texans current cap space is figured with the top 51 active contracts.
The Texans only need to carry 2 more players to make the full roster.

The late round picks (5th rd and later) have cap space that is about the same or lower than some of the players at the bottom of the totem pole we now have.

Let's say we sign the top 5 rookies (including the comp in the third), that would require roughly $4.2M in cap space for 2013.

However, that would bring the roster up to 56 players.

Let's say we cut the bottom 3 players (in term of money), that's a reduction of about $1.3M in cap space (or increase in cap space available.)

$4.9-$4.2+$1.3= $2M

The Texans should still have about $2M available in cap space to roll over to 2014.

Previously, I had put this estimation at $1M to be on the safe side.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 08:57 AM
On top of that, if we keep a late round rookie and cut guys like Sharpton (injury) and McGee (4th QB), it would put $200K back into our coffer (each).

Guys like McClain and Clutts (odd mans out) would put about $u100K back each.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 09:08 AM
Let's remember that the Texans current cap space is figured with the top 51 active contracts.
The Texans only need to carry 2 more players to make the full roster.

The late round picks (5th rd and later) have cap space that is about the same or lower than some of the players at the bottom of the totem pole we now have.

Let's say we sign the top 5 rookies (including the comp in the third), that would require roughly $4.2M in cap space for 2013.

However, that would bring the roster up to 56 players.

Let's say we cut the bottom 3 players (in term of money), that's a reduction of about $1.3M in cap space (or increase in cap space available.)

$4.9-$4.2+$1.3= $2M

The Texans should still have about $2M available in cap space to roll over to 2014.

Previously, I had put this estimation at $1M to be on the safe side.

On top of that, if we keep a late round rookie and cut guys like Sharpton (injury) and McGee (4th QB), it would put $200K back into our coffer (each).

Guys like McClain and Clutts (odd mans out) would put about $100K back each.
To take it further, with Greg Jones' $1M added (while subtracting a bottom guy) still leave the Texans with somewhere between 500K to $1.5M in available cap space.

Bottom line, the Texans can still sign one or two guys at about the same level as Jones.

Obviously, if the Texans cut a guy like Wade Smith, they have plenty of cap space to perhaps find a healthier replacement (if they deem that he will never get back to form.)

Thorn
03-29-2013, 09:14 AM
On top of that, if we keep a late round rookie and cut guys like Sharpton (injury) and McGee (4th QB), it would put $200K back into our coffee (each).
Guys like McClain and Clutts (odd mans out) would put about $100K back each.


Is it normal to put football players in coffee?

76Texan
03-29-2013, 09:24 AM
Is it normal to put football players in coffee?

LOL; you read it wrong.

We're so rich we can afford to leave a couple hundred grands for tip at Starbuck.

Thorn
03-29-2013, 09:51 AM
LOL; you read it wrong.

We're so rich we can afford to leave a couple hundred grands for tip at Starbuck.

AH HA! I caught you editing your post! LOL

It's the off season. We have to find some humor somewhere. :)

ChampionTexan
03-29-2013, 10:08 AM
I believe it is the signing bonus (if any) given to the practice squad player, and not his salary.



Nope - it's the salary...

From Article 13 (Salary Cap Accounting Rules) Section 5. (Computation of Team Salary) of the current CBA:

(c) Practice Squad Contracts. Any Practice Squad contract Salaries shall be included in Team Salary except to the extent otherwise provided in Article 33, Section 5.

For 2013 minimum practice squad salary is $6,000/week, so with a 17 week season, the minimum amount that goes towards a full practice squad roster (8 players) would be $816,000. Obviously, there could be temporary vacancies on the PS due to signings, but since the Texans have a history of a full practice squad, I'd imagine they have this full amount designated towards the 2013 salary cap.

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2013, 10:32 AM
You look at their cap situation , they have next to no dead money and the cap should increase significantly in the next two years with the new TV deals kicking in. They'll be in prime position cap wise ....
See I'm right there with you and feel like I'm one of the few that actually likes the position we're in. I think Rick and Olsen have been doing a great job the last several years in regards to our contracts, players and cap.

I'm also one that's glad we didn't spend crazy during the uncapped year bc that would have directly effect our future cap position. The league warned not to play fancy Enron accounting with contracts that year and the Texans listened.

Plus there was plenty of talk about how the cap would NOT significantly increase during the first several years of the new CBA and that it would be gradual increase and/or relatively flat. The Texans are smart enough to know that and didn't "plan" for a huge cap increase just to sign high $ FA's. otherwise we'd actually be in cap hell right now!

Lucky
03-29-2013, 12:13 PM
Nope - it's the salary...

From Article 13 (Salary Cap Accounting Rules) Section 5. (Computation of Team Salary) of the current CBA:


(c) Practice Squad Contracts. Any Practice Squad contract Salaries shall be included in Team Salary except to the extent otherwise provided in Article 33, Section 5.

What is the "except to the extent otherwise provided"?

bash
03-29-2013, 12:21 PM
With just 4.9M left in cap space (before Jacksonville FB acquisition), could the Texans make a legit attempt at acquiring him?



Do you think its worth it?

:bender:




Thanks

ChampionTexan
03-29-2013, 12:22 PM
What is the "except to the extent otherwise provided"?

The "except" has to do with another team picking up a PS player and then cutting him in less than three weeks. Not applicable in the vast majority of PS player situations.

bash
03-29-2013, 12:24 PM
What if Schaub becomes Flacco 2.0 and win the SB? :chickendance:



Then we over pay him and watch our team leave.



JK, that would be great, but unlikely.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 12:35 PM
$102,000 salary plus per diem in OTA, minicamp, TC, PS plus meal allowances, etc.

That's between $110-$115K for a guy on the PS... not too bad.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 01:01 PM
With just 4.9M left in cap space (before Jacksonville FB acquisition), could the Texans make a legit attempt at acquiring him?

Do you think its worth it?

:bender:

ThanksVery doubtful, unless Lloyd is willing to take a big pay cut.

He pocketed some $4M last year (on a 3-yr contract that supposedly run through 2014).

I'm thinking he's holding out for at least $2.5-$3M per.

It can be done, but I'm not holding out much hope.

EVOLVIST
03-29-2013, 02:41 PM
I do not know the what the cap ramifications would be but I sure am hoping that the Redskins are willing to part ways with Kirk Cousins after next season in exchange for 2 high draft picks and we can part ways with Schuab. That would be ideal.

Depending on the way things shake down in Philly (just as it depends on how things happen in Washington), I think the best bet, for less picks (or lower round picks) would be for Nick Foles to come to Houston and light it up. I believe he's the better prospect of the two that could conceivably be attained.

1.) Foles
2.) Cousins

I would just hate for Foles to become the next Billy Volek...and he has a greater chance of that happening.

Steleehin
03-29-2013, 06:52 PM
Yep but I think they will eventually trade Cousins unless RGIII's career is derailed by multiple injuries. They won't give both QB's a massive contract and there is little to no chance that the Redskins slap a franchise tag on a backup QB. The bad news is that he is under contract for 3 more years. If he plays like he did last year we need to really make a concerted effort to obtain his services.

what is so great about cousins ? what has he done that Yates has not .

WolverineFan
03-29-2013, 07:42 PM
Holy crap, the Bengals still have 29 million dollars in cap space?

Their owner is notorious for being cheap. He never pays anyone. They have 3-4 young guys they should re-sign right now and he doesn't want to open his checkbook.

leebigeztx
03-30-2013, 11:54 AM
They need to get antonio off that 9.5m. He's not worth that no matter what people try to say. He's a 5m a yea max player. Either they need to extend him for 4 yrs and thin his number out or cut him. 4 yrs 20m with 6m guarantee is what they should offer him. They could get lloyd,seymore,and alan branch for 9.5m

Texn4life
03-30-2013, 11:56 AM
They need to get antonio off that 9.5m. He's not worth that no matter what people try to say. He's a 5m a yea max player. Either they need to extend him for 4 yrs and thin his number out or cut him. 4 yrs 20m with 6m guarantee is what they should offer him. They could get lloyd,seymore,and alan branch for 9.5m

I think they'll extend him pretty soon. Its probably already in the works.

Doppelganger
03-30-2013, 12:14 PM
I repeat; all they need to do is to cut Schaub. :kitten:

Schaub's contract is suddenly looking a lot better. With the deal Flaco and Romo signed and what Rogers is going to get, Schaub's deal suddenly looks a lot more manageable.

Lucky
03-30-2013, 03:00 PM
Schaub's contract is suddenly looking a lot better. With the deal Flaco and Romo signed and what Rogers is going to get, Schaub's deal suddenly looks a lot more manageable.

Not really. There would not have been a market for Schaub. Flacco had leverage. Rodgers would have had leverage. Jerry Jones is completely insane. Schaub is overpayed.

Lucky
03-30-2013, 03:08 PM
They need to get antonio off that 9.5m. He's not worth that no matter what people try to say. He's a 5m a yea max player. Either they need to extend him for 4 yrs and thin his number out or cut him. 4 yrs 20m with 6m guarantee is what they should offer him. They could get lloyd,seymore,and alan branch for 9.5m
If the Texans cut Smith, they get $6 million in cap relief. Not $9.5 million. And since Smith is already looking at a $6 million salary, why would he agree to a extension that guaranteed $6 million? They would have guarantee more than that to get Smith to extend.

ArlingtonTexan
03-30-2013, 03:31 PM
Not really. There would not have been a market for Schaub. Flacco had leverage. Rodgers would have had leverage. Jerry Jones is completely insane. Schaub is overpayed.

Sure there would have some market for schaub. Not a silly one, but I totally convinced that if the bills would give Fitzpatrick his last contract or Kolb warrented a nice contract or alex smith garners a high 2nd with future mid-rounder that there would somebody looking at Schuab with longing eyes.

Scary as it sounds, we have fogotten, what total QB desparation feels like. The texans have QB mediocrity problem, but enough teams would replace average for awfulness.

Lucky
03-30-2013, 03:52 PM
Sure there would have some market for schaub. Not a silly one, but I totally convinced that if the bills would give Fitzpatrick his last contract or Kolb warrented a nice contract or alex smith garners a high 2nd with future mid-rounder that there would somebody looking at Schuab with longing eyes.
It doesn't happen often, but I strongly disagree. The QBs you mentioned were coming off positive years. Schaub would have been on the market following the worst stretch of his career, with serious questions concerning his long term health.

A good litmus test will be what type of deal Carson Palmer gets after he is released by the Raiders. Similar in age and success to Schaub, without the foot injury. It won't be the $29 million guaranteed like Schaub received from the Texans, that is for certain.

infantrycak
03-30-2013, 04:17 PM
A good litmus test will be what type of deal Carson Palmer gets after he is released by the Raiders. Similar in age and success to Schaub, without the foot injury. It won't be the $29 million guaranteed like Schaub received from the Texans, that is for certain.

I agree Schaub coming off injury would have been a huge market factor but I'm sorry Carson Palmer is not a good litmus test now. Carson over the last six seasons hasn't come close to performing like Schaub. You have to go back to 2007 and before to get where it is an argument.

ArlingtonTexan
03-30-2013, 06:45 PM
It doesn't happen often, but I strongly disagree. The QBs you mentioned were coming off positive years. Schaub would have been on the market following the worst stretch of his career, with serious questions concerning his long term health.

A good litmus test will be what type of deal Carson Palmer gets after he is released by the Raiders. Similar in age and success to Schaub, without the foot injury. It won't be the $29 million guaranteed like Schaub received from the Texans, that is for certain.

Carson Palmer is a great example. He had not been anything but average, for a couple of years with the bengals, and Raiders sent multiple high picks and a big contract for a plus 30 QB with a history of injury.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PalmCa00.htm

No teams would not be dropping 50 million guaranteed, but acting like 30 million in the NFL phony guarantees would unrealistic is not paying attention to the market.

Hell, I am not even arguing that any of those teams should have given Schaub that type of money. I am arguing that at least one team would have done it.

Doppelganger
03-30-2013, 09:10 PM
Not really. There would not have been a market for Schaub. Flacco had leverage. Rodgers would have had leverage. Jerry Jones is completely insane. Schaub is overpayed.

Sure there would have some market for schaub. Not a silly one, but I totally convinced that if the bills would give Fitzpatrick his last contract or Kolb warrented a nice contract or alex smith garners a high 2nd with future mid-rounder that there would somebody looking at Schuab with longing eyes.

Scary as it sounds, we have fogotten, what total QB desparation feels like. The texans have QB mediocrity problem, but enough teams would replace average for awfulness.

I agree with AT here. Let's pretend the Texans had not given Schaub an extension and he was able to hit FA. We know Flacco would not have hit FA, so who else would have been available? Kevin Kolb, Matt Moore, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassell, and Matt Hasselbeck? A strong case could be made that outside of Flacco, Matt Schaub would have been the best FA QB on the market. Now he would not have gotten 6 years 108 million, 55 guaranteed(Romo money), but I think a desperate team with money would have thrown say 80 million, 40 guaranteed at him. Why? Because as much grief as he gets, Schaub is still a top 15 QB in the league. There are about 17 teams in the league that would upgrade their QB to Schaub if they could.

The Texans got him for 25 guaranteed. Not a bad deal all things considered.

Lucky
03-31-2013, 01:03 AM
No teams would not be dropping 50 million guaranteed, but acting like 30 million in the NFL phony guarantees would unrealistic is not paying attention to the market.

Hell, I am not even arguing that any of those teams should have given Schaub that type of money. I am arguing that at least one team would have done it.

I think I pay as much attention to the market as any other amatuer GM. And there's nothing phony about Schaub's $29 million guarantee. It was all too real.

I would like to know who these teams (or team) are that would have forked over that kind of $$$ to Schaub. Please do not include the Raiders, who have a legitimate management team, now.

ArlingtonTexan
03-31-2013, 09:52 AM
I think I pay as much attention to the market as any other amatuer GM. And there's nothing phony about Schaub's $29 million guarantee. It was all too real.

I would like to know who these teams (or team) are that would have forked over that kind of $$$ to Schaub. Please do not include the Raiders, who have a legitimate management team, now.

I have already listed multiple teams willingness to hand out bad money to QBs who have done less than Schuab, why I do have specualte on the exact one that would do it with Schuab? I have recent history on my side, not wasting bandwith trying to read the mind of a specific organization over the bigger picture.

The more important question for the Texans is if schuab goes to market (ie giving leverage) what would Texans being doing at QB today?
Sending a 1st and something more for Alex Smith?
Waiting around to the draft and reaching for Ryan Nassib or EJ Manuel?
Sorting through Fitzpatrick, Kolb, and Flynn, hoping you figure which one sucks least?

The Texans thought (and still think) this is a team ready for a deep run and the best chance for that run over next handful of years was to keep the known product Schuab in place instead of guessing at whether some desparate team would money whip him and the Texans waking-up looking at that terrible QB market.

bottonline is that the Texans were not going to re-sign schuab for the prove-it-to-me contract that Kolb got. They had to offer him starting QB money either in season or out.

thunderkyss
03-31-2013, 04:44 PM
They need to get antonio off that 9.5m. He's not worth that no matter what people try to say. He's a 5m a yea max player. Either they need to extend him for 4 yrs and thin his number out or cut him. 4 yrs 20m with 6m guarantee is what they should offer him. They could get lloyd,seymore,and alan branch for 9.5m

I'm sure if they need the money, they'll do it. But he's getting older. If they can get one more year out of him, they can be free & clear of him next year. This gives Crick & Jamison a year to earn that spot.

Of course, if they are comfy with Crick & Jamison already, they can trade Antonio now, for whatever they can get. They'll free up $6M & eat $3M... I like Antonio, but that's awful tempting.

He's had back-to-back career years, putting up very good numbers for an undersized 3-4 DE/4-3 DT... & I assume he's the kind of pro the F.O. wants to keep around.

If they do restructure, I'd like to see something with a low $3M-$5M cap number for the next 3 years & little dead money in years 4 & 5

Not really. There would not have been a market for Schaub. Flacco had leverage. Rodgers would have had leverage. Jerry Jones is completely insane. Schaub is overpayed.

Who knows. He is a starting QB. He's getting half of what those other guys are getting. After the Flacco deal, after the Romo deal (who has not done any more than Schaub), and based on the speculation of what Rodgers is going to get, Schaub was a steal.

He's not the QB we want, but he's not as hopeless as we say he is either. He's got just as much a shot at winning the next Super Bowl as Flacco, Romo, or even Rogers.

TexanCR
03-31-2013, 08:41 PM
I came to read about the Texans cap and all I see is another I hate Schaub/ Lets cut Schaub thread...oh well.:backsout:

rolyat93
03-31-2013, 10:44 PM
I came to read about the Texans cap and all I see is another I hate Schaub/ Lets cut Schaub thread...oh well.:backsout:

Welcome to every thread on any texans board.:koolaid:

76Texan
04-01-2013, 11:30 AM
Let's not forget that Antonio's cap space is high because the Texans wanted him to restructure (in 2011 I think), and not because his contract is "out of whack".

76Texan
04-01-2013, 11:38 AM
I'm kinda in the middle regarding Schaub's contract.
All I wished for was that the Texans put some form of "roster" bonus for "games start" and not guaranteeing that amount of money.

thunderkyss
04-02-2013, 12:23 AM
Because as much grief as he gets, Schaub is still a top 15 QB in the league. There are about 17 teams in the league that would upgrade their QB to Schaub if they could.


Top 15.

Schaub had a bad year.

Schaub threw for 4000 yards.

We were top 5 in scoring.

We led the league in T.O.P.

We won 12 games.

We signed him for almost half of what Tony Romo got. Tony freak'n Romo. Substantially less money than Flacco got.

4 months ago, December 1st, 2012 Matt Schaub was hands down the better QB, of the three. That's just 4 months ago. I may be in denial, but I do not believe his foot is of any concern. He struggled late last year, but I don't believe it was because of his foot. Nothing he's said, or anyone has said hints to a problem with his foot. Nothing he's done since hints at any kind of a problem with his foot.

Lucky
04-02-2013, 12:40 AM
I may be in denial, but I do not believe his foot is of any concern. He struggled late last year, but I don't believe it was because of his foot. Nothing he's said, or anyone has said hints to a problem with his foot. Nothing he's done since hints at any kind of a problem with his foot.
Anyone? (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Bob-McNair-on-Super-Bowl-offseason/0cf63f4f-6588-40d0-a2eb-9727df65f5fe)
Matt has all the ability in the world. We havenít said that he was quote ďthe best quarterback in the league,Ē heís certainly one of the top ten. Weíve said that all along and we feel that way, and he can be one of the top five. I think he has the ability to do that. He hasnít quite gotten there yet but thatís not to say that he wonít get there. I think that the injury he had did slow him down some. He was probably in the back of his mind a little concerned about reinjuring his foot and we certainly didnít want to see that happen.
Someone thinks Schaub had a problem with his foot.

thunderkyss
04-02-2013, 09:21 AM
Anyone? (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Bob-McNair-on-Super-Bowl-offseason/0cf63f4f-6588-40d0-a2eb-9727df65f5fe)
Originally Posted by Bob McNair

I think that the injury he had did slow him down some. He was probably in the back of his mind a little concerned about reinjuring his foot and we certainly didn’t want to see that happen.
Someone thinks Schaub had a problem with his foot.

Maybe I read it differently, or maybe I misunderstood your (generic) implications about his injury. Seems that many believe the injury limited him physically, that he wasn't able to plant, push, or generally move around because the foot was causing him some pain. Or that he was compensating for it in some way. That physically he is less mobile than he already was before the injury.

What McNair is saying there (or at least the way I interpret it) is maybe he didn't play "full speed" (Matt's full speed) because he was thinking about the foot. Kinda like many players are thinking about re-tearing their ACL when they come back from surgery, so they play slower, they're more cautious. But physically, they aren't impaired in any way from doing what they've done in the past.

& if that's the case, then there is actually reason to believe he'll play up to his full speed come next season.

I'll say it right now. If the Texans draft a QB on the first day, I'll stop denying what "we" already know. If they don't, I hope this anti-Schaub stuff will stop. Had we traded for a Colt McCoy, or an Alex Smith, or a Matt Flynn (is that his name?) then I would believe the Texans know more than what they've been letting on. But picking up a Stephen McGee from A&M makes me think "we" are overstating Matt's problems.

76Texan
04-02-2013, 09:52 AM
We didn't overstate his problem.
Schaub's problem has always been the fact that he's not very good! :swatter:

thunderkyss
04-02-2013, 10:11 AM
We didn't overstate his problem.
Schaub's problem has always been the fact that he's not very good! :swatter:

I agree. I'm not a Schaub fan, but the guy I saw last year, was the same guy I always saw.

Schaub had a lot of fans before December, but it seems with RG3, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, & Colin Kaepernick having amazing seasons, Schaub all of a sudden isn't any good anymore.... even to his fans, which is just blowing my mind.

His stats are the same, he looks the same... he chokes just like he always has. That's what we saw & the LisFranc had nothing to do with that. I could understand if people were saying, "I was wrong, he's a choker & won't ever win a Super Bowl."

But they're saying, "He's no good now after his LisFranc & will never be the same again." But the guy I saw in December & January was the same guy.

We said, before the play-offs, that if we're going to beat New England (we said the same thing in the regular season too) then the run game was going to have to show up. We needed Arian Foster (since Kubiak didn't want to use any other RB) to put on a show. We needed Duane Brown to be the "Baddest man on the planet" & neither happened. We said we needed the defense to show up. We needed to see the Jj Watt show, we needed Barwin to show up.... & that didn't happen either.

No one expected Schaub to beat the Patriots, but when he didn't.... it was like, "Schaub sucks, he couldn't beat the Patriots."

But we knew that. We knew that before 2012. We knew that in 2011, We knew that in 2010. The Matt Schaub we saw in 2009... that guy could probably stand a chance (even though it was Arian Foster & the defense that beat the Patriots at home).... probably, but that guy is long gone & is proving to be the exception to the rule.

The Pencil Neck
04-02-2013, 03:46 PM
We didn't overstate his problem.
Schaub's problem has always been the fact that he's not very good! :swatter:

Guys who "aren't very good" don't throw for 4700 yards. You've got to be pretty good just to throw for 4000 yards in a season.

He's not very athletic. He doesn't have a cannon arm. He's not a great passer on the run. But he's smart, he's reasonably accurate, and he'll stand in and take the shot (sometimes to his detriment.)

His lack of arm strength is a problem in the red zone and when guys are streaking down the field. But even with that, he's pretty good at picking up chunks of yardage between the 20's.

He's a good enough QB to manage a team to the Super Bowl but he's not a good enough QB to consistently put the team on his back to get them there. There aren't very many QBs who are that good and even the ones that are, that's not good enough to win a SB.

By the end of last season, he didn't look as mobile or as strong as he did at the beginning of the season. I don't know if that was injury, or being worn down by a long season, or something else. I personally had the feeling his foot was bothering him.

I like Schaub. I think he can win a SB with this team. But if we can upgrade the position, then let's do it.

CloakNNNdagger
04-04-2013, 01:12 PM
Link to multiple daily cap figure updates courtesy of NFLPA:

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 15h
#Texans with $3.81M available RT @georgeatallah: Link to every NFL teamís salary cap figures, per NFLPA calculations http://www.nflplayers.com/cap

badboy
04-04-2013, 02:01 PM
Link to multiple daily cap figure updates courtesy of NFLPA:

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 15hAfter draft we may see some significant vets released and maybe we can use the cap space for that.

76Texan
04-04-2013, 03:25 PM
Link to multiple daily cap figure updates courtesy of NFLPA:

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 15h

Basically, it was up to date with Greg Jones' contract figured in.

Dutchrudder
04-08-2013, 12:13 PM
It's possible that Kevin Walter was designated a June 1st cut, which splits up his 2 million in dead money. If that is the case, when June 1st comes around we will get another 1 million in cap space freed up.

76Texan
04-08-2013, 01:31 PM
It's possible that Kevin Walter was designated a June 1st cut, which splits up his 2 million in dead money. If that is the case, when June 1st comes around we will get another 1 million in cap space freed up.

We can always declare Schaub as a June 1st cut. :kitten: :ahhaha:

badboy
04-09-2013, 03:32 PM
Still hoping we can sign someone significant after June 1st

The Pencil Neck
04-09-2013, 03:38 PM
Still hoping we can sign someone significant after June 1st

I'm surprised we haven't made a couple more moves. Not splashy moves, maybe, but along the Harris level to just shore up some things going into the draft.

76Texan
04-09-2013, 03:43 PM
I'm surprised we haven't made a couple more moves. Not splashy moves, maybe, but along the Harris level to just shore up some things going into the draft.

I'm assuming we've made more "significant" moves than last year as in perhaps we might not get a comp pick next year?!?

Anybody keeping count?

badboy
04-09-2013, 03:47 PM
I'm surprised we haven't made a couple more moves. Not splashy moves, maybe, but along the Harris level to just shore up some things going into the draft.No, I'm not. If we pick up an ILB, WR or NT vet after draft depending on what we select, we should be ok. I am pretty pleased with what we've done.

Dutchrudder
04-09-2013, 06:04 PM
I'm assuming we've made more "significant" moves than last year as in perhaps we might not get a comp pick next year?!?

Anybody keeping count?

Yeah, I think we will still get a 4th for Barwin and a 6th for Casey, then a 7th from Ball or Forsett. I haven't seen contract numbers on Ball or Forsett yet. The Jags do tend to overpay for players, but it certainly could be enough to warrant a 7th or more. I think this is how it stacks up now.

Signed / Lost
- Barwin - 4th
- Casey - 6th
Reed - Quin - 5th cancelled
Lechler - D Jones - 7th cancelled
G Jones - Ball - 7th cancelled?
- Forsett - 7th?

Lechler's and Greg Jones' signings should be in the 7th range, so if either Ball or Forsett can cancel out one of them, the other will definitely be cancelled by Donnie Jones. If not, then Casey's comp pick will average down to a 7th.

badboy
04-09-2013, 07:50 PM
Barwin will have to have a great season and I don't see that happening but hope we get a 4th.

Dutchrudder
04-10-2013, 10:57 AM
Barwin will have to have a great season and I don't see that happening but hope we get a 4th.

6 million a year is definitely a 4th comp pick, unless there are more quirks in the system we don't know about.

Edit: As an example, this year the 49ers got a 4th for Josh Morgan, WR who went to the Redskins. He got 5 years 5.75m a year average and only 7.3m guaranteed. I think Barwin will be in that range and net us a 4th if we don't sign anyone else of significance.

badboy
04-10-2013, 04:08 PM
6 million a year is definitely a 4th comp pick, unless there are more quirks in the system we don't know about.

Edit: As an example, this year the 49ers got a 4th for Josh Morgan, WR who went to the Redskins. He got 5 years 5.75m a year average and only 7.3m guaranteed. I think Barwin will be in that range and net us a 4th if we don't sign anyone else of significance.I don't expect it this year but 2014 I want to see home trade ups to get better players. So a comp 4th would allow us to trade our regular up.