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ObsiWan
03-23-2013, 08:27 PM
I think the coaching staff wasn't all that thrilled with Quin's development. I think that Wade and Vance sat down with Rick and said, "Hey, listen. Quin's been fine so far but we can do better. Why don't we upgrade the position in the short term by getting a more ball-hawking vet and then draft that guy's replacement for the long term, letting they rook learn from a great."

Sure, we could have had Quin signed and on the team for several years but that's not a "fix". That's a "more of the same."

Correct line of thinking but from the wrong source. This McNair quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Ed-Reed-signing-press-conference/e2f3666e-cb89-4509-bb08-66d87ef0303c)tells me he might - MIGHT - just have been the man who put this "Go get Ed Reed" move into motion.
As a young team, we had very few veterans for obvious reasons. Now we’re developing those ourselves and then to have the opportunity to bring in somebody like Ed Reed, who has tremendous leadership ability and also bringing a dimension of being a great ball hawk which we have not had. We’ve had some great DBs that are really strong hitters. We haven’t had that guy who is our center fielder though, who can cover all the ground and go after the ball. Ed Reed does that. That’s a dimension that really adds something to our team. It strengthens us greatly. We play the best quarterbacks this year. We’re going to be going up against Manning. We’ll be going up against Brady. We’ll be going up against all these guys and to do that, they’re going to be throwing the ball and we have to be prepared to defend it and go after the ball and get it. It’s ours, isn’t it Ed? That’s his attitude. The ball is in the air, it’s mine. I love it. He’s a solid guy and he’ll be able to help our younger players and strengthen our defense at the same time. Ed, we’re delighted to have you with us.”

I think Uncle Bob stepped in once again.

thunderkyss
03-23-2013, 08:45 PM
We will need to get another ILB with good run stop and some cover skills and finally a big mean ass 2-gap NT to allow Manning to play back in a more natural position......a situation that would make a QB think even more before he let's a ball go.

True...... that could work too. & if that's the direction Wade wanted to go with his defense, then I can see how they would value Quin less.

thunderkyss
03-23-2013, 08:51 PM
We haven’t had that guy who is our center fielder though, who can cover all the ground and go after the ball. Ed Reed does that. That’s a dimension that really adds something to our team. It strengthens us greatly. We play the best quarterbacks this year. We’re going to be going up against Manning. We’ll be going up against Brady. We’ll be going up against all these guys and to do that, they’re going to be throwing the ball and we have to be prepared to defend it and go after the ball and get it. It’s ours, isn’t it Ed? That’s his attitude. The ball is in the air, it’s mine. I love it. He’s a solid guy and he’ll be able to help our younger players and strengthen our defense at the same time. Ed, we’re delighted to have you with us.”

I think Uncle Bob stepped in once again.

I was kinda thinking along the same lines. Reed told Aj, "Get me to Houston" Aj told coach, Kubiak & Rick had a big laugh about it. Wade walked in, he laughed as well.

Bob walked in, Wade trying to keep a straight face let Bob in on the joke.


He started "three stooging" them & got their minds right.

drs23
03-23-2013, 09:23 PM
My whole point is that playing in the NFL is voluntary employment. If the guys are scared of getting hurt then they need to go get regular jobs making what we make. I know a lot of people who have already lost interest in the NFL over how powder puff it has become. They will only begin to lose more and more fans. And they will either have to go back old school or watch the game disappear.

At my job you have to sign a contract just to work here, stating that if you are hurt on the job or have and long term injuries after employment because of work assignments that the company is not liable. NFL implement the same thing and we can go back to some hard hitting.

That contract you had to sign is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. I realize after all the TORT reform the enumeration isn't what it used to be but rest assured if anyone who signed that contact gets injured through no fault of his own a good personal injury attorney will shred that document in court.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2013, 08:52 AM
An interesting take on Reed, and some interesting facts about and statements by Reed worth reading .

Reed more at risk than are the Texans (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Reed-more-at-risk-than-are-the-Texans-4379894.php#ixzz2OStAP0Z9)
By Buck Harvey
Updated 11:29 pm, Saturday, March 23, 2013

handswarmer
03-24-2013, 08:59 AM
This isn't about Andre getting in the ear of the front office, TK.

Geez Louise, what are you smoking tonight???

I mean, is it possible that the following happening (rather than AJ telling the front office there's this guy named Ed Reed they need to look at):

1. Glover Quin was due a BIG FAT ASS RAISE by somebody, anybody. He got one. Not form us, though. Because the FO knew what was going to happen...some team flush with a bazillion in cap space was going to take a run at one of Wade Phillips' young safeties who has a lot of tread on the tires.

2. While the run-up to free agency is occurring, the front office decides to skip the effort to re-sign Quin...and well, hmmm....WHAT IF we went after Ed Reed since we all know (since we in the front office are connected to the NFL world more than fans are) that the Ravens are going to have a fire sale once Flacco's contract hits the news. Hmmm....that just might be a good temporary fix, let's go talk to Gary and Wade about. And we'll keep Bob in the loop on this, too.

3. OK, so we're all on board with wooing Ed Reed to Houston. Sure, other teams are not making a run at him. But then again, we don't have a free safety anymore and we can draft one for the next two years and hopefully get him going for us OR find another one in FA the next two years. Send the jet, oh and by the way.......

4. ...Someone make sure Andre Johnson is staying in close contact with him. Let's leverage that relationship.

I mean, TK, come on man...you really think Ed Reed is here because he's been popping into Rick Smith's office or email inbox...letting them know we should get Ed Reed?

I'm pretty sure they knew AJ and Ed have had that relationship. Pretty sure they didn't need AJ making a sales job to the FO in order to put Ed on the radar.

The planets aligned in a way that got Ed Reed here, and AJ played a cursory role in it. Period.

Other than the part about Flacco's contract causing a fire sale in Baltimore, this is the best post about Reed in this entire thread.

Ed showed his loyalty to Baltimore by chasing the money which wasn't even there. 1 team showed interest in Ed- the Texans. He made double last year than what he will get this year. And the ravens paid him every cent of his 6 yr $46million dollar contract- yet he felt 'disrespected' last year.


I for one am glad we Ravens fans don't have to go through the entire off season wondering "Will Ed retire? Will Ed play?" He has become an attention hog with his ambiguous statements.

The Ravens wanted him back, but not at what he got from the Texans.

I hope you get half of what some of you expect out of him.

Allstar
03-24-2013, 09:33 AM
Il hope you get half of what some of you expect out of him.

Well, **** you too buddy.

DX-TEX
03-24-2013, 09:39 AM
Other than the part about Flacco's contract causing a fire sale in Baltimore, this is the best post about Reed in this entire thread.

Ed showed his loyalty to Baltimore by chasing the money which wasn't even there. 1 team showed interest in Ed- the Texans. He made double last year than what he will get this year. And the ravens paid him every cent of his 6 yr $46million dollar contract- yet he felt 'disrespected' last year.


I for one am glad we Ravens fans don't have to go through the entire off season wondering "Will Ed retire? Will Ed play?" He has become an attention hog with his ambiguous statements.

The Ravens wanted him back, but not at what he got from the Texans.

I hope you get half of what some of you expect out of him.


Reeds coming home party next season in Baltimore will hopefully be memorable.

Im thinking 3 interceptions and a pick 6

thunderkyss
03-24-2013, 10:08 AM
This isn't about Andre getting in the ear of the front office, TK.

Geez Louise, what are you smoking tonight???

I mean, is it possible that the following happening (rather than AJ telling the front office there's this guy named Ed Reed they need to look at):


...this is the best post about Reed in this entire thread.


I wasn't even going to respond... but since our resident ratbird decided to make silly statements... (FYI GP, this is akin to Al Queda wanting Obama in the White House).


I think very little of Rick Smith. If Andre didn't tell Rick (or Gary, or Bob, or whoever he told) that Ed Reed was interested in coming to Houston, I don't think Reed would have been on our radar.

thunderkyss
03-24-2013, 10:13 AM
Way off topic. I was going to include this with my previous post, but decided it needed it's own. Probably should be in another thread. But.....


I think highly of Glover Quin. I think Wade thinks highly of Glover Quin. Glover Quin was our best safety last year. They might call him a free safety, but he doesn't play like one. He's in the box more than not. He's manned up on a TE more than not. He rarely plays that "last line of defense" that a FS gives you. When it's just two safeties, Manning is the last line of defense. When it's three safeties, Demps/Keo is the last line of defense (I don't understand it either, but that's the way it was). 14 passes defensed. That means he was in someone's grille when they were trying to catch the ball.

He gave up some TDs, PFF has him ranked very low among safeties. & there are reasons for that. But, when I watched the games, two players stood out to me in our secondary as playing above the bar.... Kj (16 passes defensed) & Quin. Everyone else was reacting to the ball carrier. Kj & Quin weren't allowing the offensive player to become the "ball carrier".


I think Quin is not a Texans, because Reed has something the Texans wanted & they value more than what Quin had to offer. Glover Quin is going to have a long successful career. I don't know that he'll ever be a super star (like Reed) but he's not going to get cut next year because the Lions think his production isn't worth it (ala Winston).

thunderkyss
03-24-2013, 10:20 AM
An interesting take on Reed, and some interesting facts about and statements by Reed worth reading .
http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/20/52/32/4368033/3/628x471.jpg


Cool picture.

I liked this snippet.
He wasn't worth that price to the Ravens, not in the salary-cap era of the NFL. Baltimore is rebuilding, and a 34-year-old who has dropped off doesn't fit the model.

Playoffs
03-24-2013, 10:40 AM
...
I think Quin is not a Texans, because Reed has something the Texans wanted & they value more than what Quin had to offer. Glover Quin is going to have a long successful career. I don't know that he'll ever be a super star (like Reed) but he's not going to get cut next year because the Lions think his production isn't worth it (ala Winston).Yep, and these PFF ratings highlight the difference:

Ed Reed rated 17th out of 88 Safeties in pass coverage,
Glover Quin rated 66th out of 88 in pass coverage.

Glover Quin rated 9th out of 88 Safeties in run defense,
Ed Reed rated 70th out of 88 in run defense.

What it also highlights is the Texans are going to have to get much better up the middle against the run with Reed in there. NT, ILB need upgrades.

Texan in Japan
03-24-2013, 10:54 AM
An interesting take on Reed, and some interesting facts about and statements by Reed worth reading .

CnD,

Thanks for the link. Good article, but I didn't really like his take away that Reed isn't as smart as people think. As an athlete and someone who spent 25 years in the military (probably shows I'm not too smart either), if you love what you do or play, most of us keep doing it until we truly can't do it any longer. Call it the heart of a warrior or stupidity; I don't really care what the media puppets say.

This Teddy Roosevelt quote is something I've recalled frequently through my life and one that I think embodies guys like Ed Reed and Mr. Harvey (The Critic)...

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Playoffs
03-24-2013, 11:15 AM
Nice.

http://i.imgur.com/2BtTl2P.jpg

handswarmer
03-24-2013, 11:45 AM
I wasn't even going to respond... but since our resident ratbird decided to make silly statements... (FYI GP, this is akin to Al Queda wanting Obama in the White House).


I think very little of Rick Smith. If Andre didn't tell Rick (or Gary, or Bob, or whoever he told) that Ed Reed was interested in coming to Houston, I don't think Reed would have been on our radar.

That's a dumb statement- you act all important and then post this? Shame on you.

Smith got to be the GM by knowing something; but of course, you know better.

I understand now. Its all about the "U" and the relationships made there.

handswarmer
03-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Well, **** you too buddy.

informative and lively!

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2013, 11:50 AM
Nice.

http://i.imgur.com/2BtTl2P.jpg

MSR.

htowntexans1985
03-24-2013, 11:58 AM
informative and lively!

Sounds like you're butthurt your boy reed left. Your boy flake-o holds the key to the basement your ratbirds are going to be in for the next 5 years. Have fun looking up at the Bengals and Steelers bro. :lol:

76Texan
03-24-2013, 12:26 PM
Yep, and these PFF ratings highlight the difference:

Ed Reed rated 17th out of 88 Safeties in pass coverage,
Glover Quin rated 66th out of 88 in pass coverage.

Glover Quin rated 9th out of 88 Safeties in run defense,
Ed Reed rated 70th out of 88 in run defense.

What it also highlights is the Texans are going to have to get much better up the middle against the run with Reed in there. NT, ILB need upgrades.

Reed played mostly CF where as Quin came down to run with the TEs a lot; so they have different roles really.

Reed missed an awful lot tackles.
I didn't watch every game, but I think PFF or some site keeps track of those things.

I watched the Ravens play-offs games and a few others, and the pattern holds.

Granted, I think our guys are more disciplined in run support, and that should help Reed. I don't know how to explain it, but I think the number of misses by Reed would have been less with the Texans; at least, I hope so.

But the fact is that Reed did miss a lot of tackles (I think it was something like 1.5 per reg season game, a number that he cut down to about 1 in the play-offs.)

Some of the misses were because he "kinda" go for it all, instead of playing it safe by breaking down and wait for the play to come to him.

If you complain about Keo, you would be horrified watching those misses, at least 2 of them resulting in TDs (even though I wouldn't hold it solely against him.)

handswarmer
03-24-2013, 12:34 PM
Sounds like you're butthurt your boy reed left. Your boy flake-o holds the key to the basement your ratbirds are going to be in for the next 5 years. Have fun looking up at the Bengals and Steelers bro. :lol:

Not butt hurt at all- I liked Ed, but Ed Reed isn't Ed Reed anymore. Gambles too much, is wrong a lot, cannot wrap up and leaves CB's stranded a lot. Other than that, he is a fine addition to the Texans.

Ravens lose more FA's than anyone else in the league, year after year. Since the inception of the Compensatory Pick in 1994 (2 years before the Ravens existed), the Ravens have been awarded the most picks for FA leaving because we are successful and win on a consistent basis.

Better to let a player go a year too early, than a year too late....

handswarmer
03-24-2013, 12:51 PM
Reed played mostly CF where as Quin came down to run with the TEs a lot; so they have different roles really.

Reed missed an awful lot tackles.
I didn't watch every game, but I think PFF or some site keeps track of those things.

I watched the Ravens play-offs games and a few others, and the pattern holds.

Granted, I think our guys are more disciplined in run support, and that should help Reed. I don't know how to explain it, but I think the number of misses by Reed would have been less with the Texans; at least, I hope so.

But the fact is that Reed did miss a lot of tackles (I think it was something like 1.5 per reg season game, a number that he cut down to about 1 in the play-offs.)

Some of the misses were because he "kinda" go for it all, instead of playing it safe by breaking down and wait for the play to come to him.

If you complain about Keo, you would be horrified watching those misses, at least 2 of them resulting in TDs (even though I wouldn't hold it solely against him.)

Good post- Ed did miss a bunch last year, as well as blown coverage and gambling for the big play resulting in TDs....

76Texan
03-24-2013, 01:17 PM
My bad, folks.
I just verified the stats and Reed was charged for missing 15 tackles in the regular season; still an alarming number though.

Here's PFF study of 3 years (2009-11) of DBs' tackling.
Reed was not on the bad list for those years; but if you pro-rate 15*3=45, it would put him at second worse.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/06/three-years-of-tackling-efficiency-defensive-backs/

I hope it was just a combination of other things that I mentioned in the previous post and not a thing to come.

76Texan
03-24-2013, 01:21 PM
Well, let me take it back once more; I didn't count the number of total snaps and the number of tackles attempted.

If I did, I'm sure Reed is not #2 worse.
He should be quite better (I estimate), but again, it was a lot of misses.

thunderkyss
03-24-2013, 05:23 PM
That's a dumb statement- you act all important and then post this? Shame on you.

Smith got to be the GM by knowing something; but of course, you know better.

I understand now. Its all about the "U" and the relationships made there.

Smith got to be the GM by knowing Kubiak.

Granted, he & the scouting dept has been doing an above average job in the draft & Identifying lesser known free agents. He's done an excellent job of getting stop gaps in the middle of the season.

But, imo, he's done a poor job of attracting top tier talent to the Texans. Yes, he gets a point for bringing in Jjo, another for Manning. But he started out trying to get Aso..... worked out for us that he couldn't land Aso. He couldn't land Boden. & there was a time there that I thought he missed on Reed. I'll give him a point for that one.

But... his overall record is week for attracting top tier talent & orchestrating trades. Things that go into making a great GM, in addition to drafting players. He's also on the fence for managing the cap.

No doubt in my mind that had Aj not let the Texans know that Reed was interested, we wouldn't have looked in his direction. Maybe a dumb statement. But I think his track record supports it.

Not only that, but replacing Quin was not a "need" most of us thought resigning Quin was top priority... or at least one of the top priorities. Replacing Demps & Keo was a "need"

EllisUnit
03-24-2013, 06:04 PM
Smith got to be the GM by knowing Kubiak.

Granted, he & the scouting dept has been doing an above average job in the draft & Identifying lesser known free agents. He's done an excellent job of getting stop gaps in the middle of the season.

But, imo, he's done a poor job of attracting top tier talent to the Texans. Yes, he gets a point for bringing in Jjo, another for Manning. But he started out trying to get Aso..... worked out for us that he couldn't land Aso. He couldn't land Boden. & there was a time there that I thought he missed on Reed. I'll give him a point for that one.

But... his overall record is week for attracting top tier talent & orchestrating trades. Things that go into making a great GM, in addition to drafting players. He's also on the fence for managing the cap.

No doubt in my mind that had Aj not let the Texans know that Reed was interested, we wouldn't have looked in his direction. Maybe a dumb statement. But I think his track record supports it.

Not only that, but replacing Quin was not a "need" most of us thought resigning Quin was top priority... or at least one of the top priorities. Replacing Demps & Keo was a "need"

The money behind the GM has a lot to do with it as well IMO. The texas for the most part have not been known to overpay.

infantrycak
03-24-2013, 06:06 PM
But, imo, he's done a poor job of attracting top tier talent to the Texans. Yes, he gets a point for bringing in Jjo, another for Manning. But he started out trying to get Aso..... worked out for us that he couldn't land Aso. He couldn't land Boden. & there was a time there that I thought he missed on Reed. I'll give him a point for that one.

I'll never get this kind of criticism of any GM. Nothing saying we "couldn't" get Aso or Bodden. It's a negotiation and the two sides didn't come to terms. You're acting like Rick was just a poor salesman on the Texans and a good one could have gotten Aso to sign for $7 mil less which is pretty silly.

Playoffs
03-24-2013, 06:59 PM
Well, let me take it back once more; I didn't count the number of total snaps and the number of tackles attempted.

If I did, I'm sure Reed is not #2 worse.
He should be quite better (I estimate), but again, it was a lot of misses.

Reed missed 15 tackles in the regular season, tying him for 7th worst out of 87 safeties. Quin missed 7 in about the same # of snaps.

Other regular season: Michael Griffin 22, Thomas DeCoud 21, Malcolm Jenkins 20, Earl Thomas(!) 17.

Postseason: Reed missed 6 tackles, worst overall. But he also had the most opportunities by 2 or 3 times, and Pollard was right there with him @5.

Titans Sux 72
03-24-2013, 06:59 PM
Not butt hurt at all- I liked Ed, but Ed Reed isn't Ed Reed anymore. Gambles too much, is wrong a lot, cannot wrap up and leaves CB's stranded a lot. Other than that, he is a fine addition to the Texans.

Ravens lose more FA's than anyone else in the league, year after year. Since the inception of the Compensatory Pick in 1994 (2 years before the Ravens existed), the Ravens have been awarded the most picks for FA leaving because we are successful and win on a consistent basis.

Better to let a player go a year too early, than a year too late....

So this year should be like the others? Your just gonna rebuild your defense and Jacoby is gonna step into the shoes of Bolden?

Lol. Now that is some funny chit right there.

NitroGSXR
03-24-2013, 07:23 PM
So this year should be like the others? Your just gonna rebuild your defense and Jacoby is gonna step into the shoes of Bolden?

Lol. Now that is some funny chit right there.

They're off to a good start. They signed Dumervil.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2013, 09:04 PM
Reed missed 15 tackles in the regular season, tying him for 7th worst out of 87 safeties. Quin missed 7 in about the same # of snaps.

Other regular season: Michael Griffin 22, Thomas DeCoud 21, Malcolm Jenkins 20, Earl Thomas(!) 17.

Postseason: Reed missed 6 tackles, worst overall. But he also had the most opportunities by 2 or 3 times, and Pollard was right there with him @5.


Earlier in this thread, I reported his missed tackles stats last year. This has not been characteristic for Reed. It brings up the recollection of one of my posts in the thread last year "Ravens Injuries," prior to the Ravens - Texans game.

ed reed might also be on the injury report with potentially a torn shoulder (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000081708/article/ed-reed-reportedly-playing-with-torn-shoulder-labrum).

Myself and a few goal keepers I know had this same injury and surgery to fix it. This is what I know about a torn labrum:

Its inevitably going to subluxate at different points while playing and doing routine things in everyday life, you usually loose feeling in the arm for a little bit, but it's an injury you can play through. The more it subluxates, the longer it will take you to recover, but the recovering from SLAP surgery is general 1 months of rest, 1 month of light lifting, and 4 months of strengthening. If he was a pitcher, it would be a different story, but overall it's something Ed Reed can play through.

You're right, he can play through it. BUT, if it is a significant torn labrum, he might be able to play through the pain and pursue and tackle, but he will have a significant limitation of range of motion of his shoulder, particularly raising his arm above his head. If our QB favors high throws this game, Reed may end up looking like a rookie.........an unprepared rookie. And don't expect him to go out of his way for "unnecessary" contact.

This type of injury does not "heal." If not major, in some cases, it may at least for some indeterminate period of time, be compensated for by concentrated muscle strengthening of the muscles of the shoulder, much like a rotator cuff. It is very prone to re-injury/extended injury which with each incident increases the chance that surgical repair would be necessary.

This injury can have varying degrees of pain with full range of motion of the shoulder, and be accompanied by significant range of motion limitations, consistent with a safety "missing" tackles. The player will tend to avoid direct shoulder contact, will demonstrate less strength in wrapping, and certainly avoid one-handed tackles that could bend the involved shoulder/arm backwards.

I would look for these patterns to be lessened with offseason "rest" and concentrated rehab strengthening, as long as the injury has not already progressed too far.......and he does not sustain further injury to the shoulder.

jaayteetx
03-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Earlier in this thread, I reported his missed tackles stats last year. This has not been characteristic for Reed. It brings up the recollection of one of my posts in the thread last year "Ravens Injuries," prior to the Ravens - Texans game.



This type of injury does not "heal." If not major, in some cases, it may at least for some indeterminate period of time, be compensated for by concentrated muscle strengthening of the muscles of the shoulder, much like a rotator cuff. It is very prone to re-injury/extended injury which with each incident increases the chance that surgical repair would be necessary.

This injury can have varying degrees of pain with full range of motion of the shoulder, and be accompanied by significant range of motion limitations, consistent with a safety "missing" tackles. The player will tend to avoid direct shoulder contact, will demonstrate less strength in wrapping, and certainly avoid one-handed tackles that could bend the involved shoulder/arm backwards.

I would look for these patterns to be lessened with offseason "rest" and concentrated rehab strengthening, as long as the injury has not already progressed too far.......and he does not sustain further injury to the shoulder.

Your always full of good news, Doc.

Titans Sux 72
03-24-2013, 09:07 PM
They're off to a good start. They signed Dumervil.

And?

Still need both safeties.


And a MLB.




Oh and an identity/ swagger/ heart. That's real easy to find in the draft.
I don't see Ray Lewis or Ed Reed in the draft.

Titans Sux 72
03-24-2013, 09:13 PM
Oh I forgot a number 2 WR.

NitroGSXR
03-24-2013, 11:22 PM
And?

Still need both safeties.


And a MLB.




Oh and an identity/ swagger/ heart. That's real easy to find in the draft.
I don't see Ray Lewis or Ed Reed in the draft.

If you don't consider Dumervil a good start then I don't know what to tell you.

76Texan
03-24-2013, 11:57 PM
This type of injury does not "heal."

It is very prone to re-injury/extended injury which with each incident increases the chance that surgical repair would be necessary.

I would look for these patterns to be lessened with offseason "rest" and concentrated rehab strengthening, as long as the injury has not already progressed too far.......and he does not sustain further injury to the shoulder.

Good news, bad news... Nobody knows what to expect in the future.

Ah well, just hope for the best, I guess!

As always, thanks for the info, Doc.

Scooter
03-25-2013, 06:32 AM
when i think of ed reed as a texan i immediately think of 2 games. first being the colts loss and our deep safety (pleasant?) missing badly and letting t.y. hilton go for a big touchdown on 3rd and long. we played a lot of single high man to man, but had extremely poor play from our safety especially late in the season. the next game is against the packers where we went man to man across the board, and aaron rodgers was throwing it deep with success all day. ed reed's not one we're going to leave underneath very often like quin, he's going to change the gameplan against the long ball teams and most certainly gives quarterbacks pause when looking for the deep throw.

this doesnt change the need to replace what quin did in coverage, but those responsibilities need to be on the linebackers. quin was doing cushing's job as often as not, so having cush back will make a huge difference, but we still need improved cover abilities at the other ILB position. someone who can stay on the field in nickel packages gives a much more complete defense.

Titans Sux 72
03-25-2013, 07:23 AM
If you don't consider Dumervil a good start then I don't know what to tell you.

It's a great start.

And ?.......

Dutchrudder
03-25-2013, 09:52 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

GP
03-25-2013, 10:09 AM
It's a great start.

And ?.......

I like how Ravens Fan says to us:

Ed Reed won't matter because he's not a QB and you have QB problems

Yet Ravens Fan doesn't realize that his team losing EIGHT starters (not 2nd stringers, by the way, s-t-a-r-t-e-r-s) and signing Elvis Dumervil doesn't help them cope with the loss of EIGHT starters, most of which were on defense at key positions that are now vacant of talent and veteran leadership.

Personally, even though we have a QB problem, our roster is more talented and more solid and experienced than the Ravens' roster is now. What they lost, eight starters, cannot be made up by the signing of Dumervil. I'd rather have our problems than the Ravens' problems.

Might not win a ring, and frankly that the Ravens lucked their way into a SB title and now there's little trolls acting like they are truly "the best" and how Ed Reed is suddenly garbage and is washed up, makes me laugh. I guess when you win a ring you get to point to it and make fun of others...even when that time is gone and a new season is emerging right around the corner.

That's why I hope the Ravens go on a streak of like 6+ seasons of having a middle-of-the-record record, something like 6-10 or 8-8 so that they don't make the playoffs but they also don't get a high draft pick. And then let's see how much money Flacco is worth. And how it hamstrings what they can do for the next few seasons.

Cyclical. Everything comes around.

76Texan
03-25-2013, 10:11 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

Ed ole boy, save your hand for something else, LOL!

steelbtexan
03-25-2013, 10:15 AM
Not butt hurt at all- I liked Ed, but Ed Reed isn't Ed Reed anymore. Gambles too much, is wrong a lot, cannot wrap up and leaves CB's stranded a lot. Other than that, he is a fine addition to the Texans.

Ravens lose more FA's than anyone else in the league, year after year. Since the inception of the Compensatory Pick in 1994 (2 years before the Ravens existed), the Ravens have been awarded the most picks for FA leaving because we are successful and win on a consistent basis.

Better to let a player go a year too early, than a year too late....

While I agree with the yr to early philosophy,

Ed looked good in the playoffs this yr and I remember him against the Texans 2 yrs ago. His injued labrum caused the tackling problems and I can remember games that he would be in position to break up a pass and couldn't because he couldn't raise his arm above his head.

steelbtexan
03-25-2013, 10:29 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

You've got very attractive friends. LOL

BullNation4Life
03-25-2013, 10:43 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

annnd what club does she strip for?


I kid...I kid....

Seems like a very nice friend. Almost as tall as Ed Reed...

Señor Stan
03-25-2013, 10:45 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

Man, Megan Fox thinks Ed Reed has a weird looking thumb...

Dutchrudder
03-25-2013, 10:53 AM
annnd what club does she strip for?


I kid...I kid....

Seems like a very nice friend. Almost as tall as Ed Reed...

Eh, she's a very Christian girl who went to Rice, sooooooooooooo yeah... no.

Now her modeling friends on the other hand, well I can't speak for them.

ObsiWan
03-25-2013, 10:55 AM
One of my friends ran into Ed Reed at Mo's Steakhouse on Friday. Apparently Lechler was there too, but she didn't get a pic with him.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554561_10151577373592813_875094772_n.jpg

I haven't been keeping up, which one is Reed?
:kitten:

Playoffs
03-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Earlier in this thread, I reported his missed tackles stats last year. This has not been characteristic for Reed. It brings up the recollection of one of my posts in the thread last year "Ravens Injuries," prior to the Ravens - Texans game.



This type of injury does not "heal." If not major, in some cases, it may at least for some indeterminate period of time, be compensated for by concentrated muscle strengthening of the muscles of the shoulder, much like a rotator cuff. It is very prone to re-injury/extended injury which with each incident increases the chance that surgical repair would be necessary.

This injury can have varying degrees of pain with full range of motion of the shoulder, and be accompanied by significant range of motion limitations, consistent with a safety "missing" tackles. The player will tend to avoid direct shoulder contact, will demonstrate less strength in wrapping, and certainly avoid one-handed tackles that could bend the involved shoulder/arm backwards.

I would look for these patterns to be lessened with offseason "rest" and concentrated rehab strengthening, as long as the injury has not already progressed too far.......and he does not sustain further injury to the shoulder.

So Reed has a torn labrum?????

b0ng
03-25-2013, 11:52 AM
So Reed has a torn labrum?????

It's also been said that Reed played the SB with 2 (!!) sprained MCL's.

ASidd_1990
03-25-2013, 12:08 PM
So Reed has a torn labrum?????

I believe Dwight Howard has been playing with a torn labrum for basically the whole season now. It really hasn't effected him that much.

I know different sport, but still. I think it's not a cause for concern. He has the whole offseason to heal.

handswarmer
03-25-2013, 04:07 PM
While I agree with the yr to early philosophy,

Ed looked good in the playoffs this yr and I remember him against the Texans 2 yrs ago. His injued labrum caused the tackling problems and I can remember games that he would be in position to break up a pass and couldn't because he couldn't raise his arm above his head.

The Labrum Tear didn't prevent that- it was his nerve impingement.

handswarmer
03-25-2013, 04:15 PM
So this year should be like the others? Your just gonna rebuild your defense and Jacoby is gonna step into the shoes of Bolden?

Lol. Now that is some funny chit right there.

Jacoby is not 'stepping into' Boldin's shoes- that's for Tandon Doss, Deonte Thompson, et al. Jacoby is the PR, KR and Speedy WR on the outside.

We signed Chris Canty of the Giants, Marcus Spears for the DLine, Some our own FA's and Dumervil for the DLine.

We lost Ellerbe- but at 7 mill he's over paid by Miami

We Lost Kruger- Browns paid more than double- stupid move- they will cut him in 2 years. Waste of money.

Now Ed leaves in FA- Harbaugh solidifies his hold on the team.

End of the defensive stranglehold in Baltimore.

Ozzie always likes the below the radar signings- not the big splashy ones. Ask Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder how many SB's they have won since signing all these FA's.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2013, 08:06 PM
The Labrum Tear didn't prevent that- it was his nerve impingement.

Not once over the past few seasons where reports have come out concerning “nerve impingement” with neck and shoulder pains, has there ever been referral to a "cervical disc" as his source for his nerve compression. Strange? No. This is evidently because the source is not a cervical disc. When a player like Reed has sustained repeated shoulder trauma including dislocations or subluxations (pop in and out), labrum and/or rotator cuff tears, it can lead to a condition known as Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which causes impingement of all the major nerves to the shoulder and arms......and not only creates weakness in this distribution and pain in these areas, but also many times throughout the distribution of the side of the neck. Repeated trauma to the shoulder area leading to increased inflammation and swelling and thus pressure (impingement) on the nerves only serves to aggravate the severity of the condition.

http://bc-injury-law.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/bc-injury-law-thoracic-outlet.png

Texan_Bill
03-25-2013, 08:16 PM
Not once over the past few seasons where reports have come out concerning “nerve impingement” with neck and shoulder pains, has there ever been referral to a "cervical disc" as his source for his nerve compression. Strange? No. This is evidently because the source is not a cervical disc. When a player like Reed has sustained repeated shoulder trauma including dislocations or subluxations (pop in and out), labrum and/or rotator cuff tears, it can lead to a condition known as Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which causes impingement of all the major nerves to the shoulder and arms......and not only creates weakness in this distribution and pain in these areas, but also many times throughout the distribution of the side of the neck. Repeated trauma to the shoulder area leading to increased inflammation and swelling and thus pressure (impingement) on the nerves only serves to aggravate the severity of the condition.

http://bc-injury-law.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/bc-injury-law-thoracic-outlet.png



For additional explanation of What is thoracic outlet syndrome? (http://bc-injury-law.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/bc-injury-law-thoracic-outlet.png), click the link.

Hey DocJean, what's the difference between a torn labrum and a rotator cuff injury? If need be, and not to derail this conversation maybe you could start a thread further down the dial (if you know what I mean)... Thanks, my brother.

Lay terms... please! :D

Titans Sux 72
03-25-2013, 08:28 PM
Jacoby is not 'stepping into' Boldin's shoes- that's for Tandon Doss, Deonte Thompson, et al. Jacoby is the PR, KR and Speedy WR on the outside.

We signed Chris Canty of the Giants, Marcus Spears for the DLine, Some our own FA's and Dumervil for the DLine.

We lost Ellerbe- but at 7 mill he's over paid by Miami

We Lost Kruger- Browns paid more than double- stupid move- they will cut him in 2 years. Waste of money.

Now Ed leaves in FA- Harbaugh solidifies his hold on the team.

End of the defensive stranglehold in Baltimore.

Ozzie always likes the below the radar signings- not the big splashy ones. Ask Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder how many SB's they have won since signing all these FA's.

Let me translate.

Everybody we lost is overpaid and sucked.

Everybody we got is not a big name but great.

Lol.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2013, 10:05 PM
Hey DocJean, what's the difference between a torn labrum and a rotator cuff injury? If need be, and not to derail this conversation maybe you could start a thread further down the dial (if you know what I mean)... Thanks, my brother.

Lay terms... please! :D

I'm not the Doc but as a lifter who couldn't touch the top of his head for a year because he blew out his shoulder in competition, I know a thing or four about rotator cuff injuries.

There are 4 muscles that make up the rotator cuff: supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis, and teres minor. They basically attach your arm to your shoulder blade in a bizarre and confusing tangle.

The LABRUM is actually the tissue on the inside of the shoulder joint that the ball that forms the head of the upper arm bone (the humerus) fits into. There are also bursa sacks up in there that get inflamed (I had one of those and it hurt. Bad.)

So the Labrum and the Rotator Cuff are kinda separate things but they're very closely inter-related in the way they work with each other. There are strength tests that can usually determine which one of the RC muscles is damaged.

GP
03-25-2013, 10:09 PM
Let me translate.

Everybody we lost is overpaid and sucked.

Everybody we got is not a big name but great.

Lol.

Pretty much nailed it.

DocBar
03-25-2013, 10:30 PM
I'm not the Doc but as a lifter who couldn't touch the top of his head for a year because he blew out his shoulder in competition, I know a thing or four about rotator cuff injuries.

There are 4 muscles that make up the rotator cuff: supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis, and teres minor. They basically attach your arm to your shoulder blade in a bizarre and confusing tangle.

The LABRUM is actually the tissue on the inside of the shoulder joint that the ball that forms the head of the upper arm bone (the humerus) fits into. There are also bursa sacks up in there that get inflamed (I had one of those and it hurt. Bad.)

So the Labrum and the Rotator Cuff are kinda separate things but they're very closely inter-related in the way they work with each other. There are strength tests that can usually determine which one of the RC muscles is damaged.You forgot to mention that the cure is damn near as bad as the ailment. I spent almost 3 months sleeping sitting up and over 6 months rehabbing. My torn rotator cuff was severe and had a torn labrum to boot. It was absolute hell getting over the surgery.

handswarmer
03-26-2013, 05:06 AM
Let me translate.

Everybody we lost is overpaid and sucked.

Everybody we got is not a big name but great.

Lol.

There was no translation necessary- but you can do with it what you want.

The Ravens track record in Free Agency stands for itself.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Hey DocJean, what's the difference between a torn labrum and a rotator cuff injury? If need be, and not to derail this conversation maybe you could start a thread further down the dial (if you know what I mean)... Thanks, my brother.

Lay terms... please! :D

I'm not the Doc but as a lifter who couldn't touch the top of his head for a year because he blew out his shoulder in competition, I know a thing or four about rotator cuff injuries.

There are 4 muscles that make up the rotator cuff: supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis, and teres minor. They basically attach your arm to your shoulder blade in a bizarre and confusing tangle.

The LABRUM is actually the tissue on the inside of the shoulder joint that the ball that forms the head of the upper arm bone (the humerus) fits into. There are also bursa sacks up in there that get inflamed (I had one of those and it hurt. Bad.)

So the Labrum and the Rotator Cuff are kinda separate things but they're very closely inter-related in the way they work with each other. There are strength tests that can usually determine which one of the RC muscles is damaged.

You forgot to mention that the cure is damn near as bad as the ailment. I spent almost 3 months sleeping sitting up and over 6 months rehabbing. My torn rotator cuff was severe and had a torn labrum to boot. It was absolute hell getting over the surgery.

Bill, The Pencil Neck and DocBar both share good information.

To summarize an answer to your question:

Labral tears are not uncommonly misdiagnosed as as rotator cuff tears by many lay persons and even some physicians. It is importance to distinguish the difference since the former is much more serious and much more potentially debilitative.

A labrum tear is a tear in the cartilage that lines the inside of the shoulder joint. That cartilage is there to help secure the arm in the socket, as the joint is somewhat unstable by nature. If the socket rim is disrupted, the ball can pop out (shoulder subluxation or dislocation).

http://www.americanathletemag.com/Portals/0/DOC%20TALK%205-24-12/Labral%20Tear.jpg

Many are quick to ascribe shoulder pain to rotator cuff strains but that may be a dangerous self-diagnosis. Rotator cuff injuries affect the smaller, secondary, stabilizing muscles that surround the shoulder joint. These muscles include the teres minor, infraspinatus, supraspinatus and subscapularis. These injuries are usually small strains (muscle or musculotendinous tears) and will usually heal on their own with rest, ice and proper rehab, many times even in the case of severe tears. Those that don't will require surgery.

http://www.americanathletemag.com/Portals/0/DOC%20TALK%205-24-12/Rotator%20Cuff.jpg

http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/shoulder/shoulder_rotator_cuff/shoulder_rotator_cuff_intro01.jpg

Why is a labrum tear more serious? Tears in the labrum will not heal on their own. They can become less symptomatic or even asymptomatic if treated properly. The tear remains but by strengthening and retraining the surrounding (rotator cuff )musculature, you may be able to continue activity symptom free. But this isn’t always the case. Many of these tears will require surgery. This depends on the type and level of activity/competition you are involved in. A competitive athlete would need to seriously consider surgery to remain at peak performer.

How can you tell the difference? It’s very difficult. If the injury doesn’t improve with treatment, that’s a good indicator you’re probably dealing with your labrum. After an initial diagnosis, a doctor will usually use an MRI to confirm the finding. Bottom line, if you have shoulder pain or instability that isn’t improving with therapy and rest, you need to see a doctor well-versed in shoulder injuries.

ObsiWan
03-27-2013, 03:33 AM
So, simply put, Labral tears are basically damage to the cartilage of the shoulder joint and rotator cuff injuries are failures (tears) to the muscles that provide mobility to the shoulder??

thanks again!

handswarmer
03-27-2013, 07:11 AM
So he has a nerve impingement and a lingering labrum tear; is that the diagnosis of this message board?

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2013, 07:18 AM
So, simply put, Labral tears are basically damage to the cartilage of the shoulder joint and rotator cuff injuries are failures (tears) to the muscles that provide mobility to the shoulder??

thanks again!

Correct.l And basiclally, the labrum contributes to the stability (by containing the ball in the socket in suction cup-like fashion) and allows "smooth" movement of the shoulder, whille the totator cuff contributes to providiing full range of motor function and stability to the shoulder (by maintining even pressure of the ball to remain firmly in contact with the socket throughout range of motion). The "stability" is thus provided through different mechanism iby each entity.

Insideop
03-27-2013, 08:45 AM
Correct.l And basiclally, the labrum contributes to the stability (by containing the ball in the socket in suction cup-like fashion) and allows "smooth" movement of the shoulder, whille the totator cuff contributes to providiing full range of motor function and stability to the shoulder (by maintining even pressure of the ball to remain firmly in contact with the socket throughout range of motion). The "stability" is thus provided through different mechanism iby each entity.

So, with all that's been said, is Ed Reed damaged goods? Will the time off help heal his situation or does he need surgery?

HOU-TEX
03-27-2013, 09:08 AM
You forgot to mention that the cure is damn near as bad as the ailment. I spent almost 3 months sleeping sitting up and over 6 months rehabbing. My torn rotator cuff was severe and had a torn labrum to boot. It was absolute hell getting over the surgery.

I can agree here. Last year I had surgery on another shoulder. I tore the rotator cuff, labrum and had a clavicle resection done. My labrum was torn pretty bad and needed 4 anchors (I think that's the right term) to reattach. It's my understanding that labrum tears take longer to heal than cuffs.

IMO, I think the "ED Reed had a torn labrum" talk is bull-butter. Otherwise, there would've been an operation involved. Maybe there was? Dunno

76Texan
03-27-2013, 09:46 AM
Question for you guys who know about it; the torn labrum would show up in a physical, right?

76Texan
03-27-2013, 09:52 AM
I just googled "Ed Reed torn labrum" and several articles came up.

One of them is here:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ed-Reed-Says-He-Has-Torn-Labrum/b80c3a7c-ce38-4413-9927-2466492d57ff

And then there's this piece that says it's minor :
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/20595098/ravens-ed-reed-downplays-torn-labrum-injury

handswarmer
03-27-2013, 10:38 AM
“There's one problem: The Ravens didn't list him on the injury report, which is a violation of league rules,” wrote ESPN’s Jamison Hensley. “So either the Ravens chose not to disclose the injury or Reed isn't really that hurt.”

I said when I read this that he was covering for his poor play by saying this. The Ravens didn't put him on an injury report before this.

It may be something, may not be.

BTW, get used to a guy named Glenn Younes; he's on the radio here in Baltimore, 105.7 The Fan...he's the director of Ed Reed's Foundation also. Huge player apologist.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2013, 11:45 AM
So, with all that's been said, is Ed Reed damaged goods? Will the time off help heal his situation or does he need surgery?
Not necessarily, especially if he has only sustained a minor labrum tear.

Refer to http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2142521&postcount=2030

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2142521&postcount=2030

rolyat93
03-27-2013, 02:06 PM
“There's one problem: The Ravens didn't list him on the injury report, which is a violation of league rules,” wrote ESPN’s Jamison Hensley. “So either the Ravens chose not to disclose the injury or Reed isn't really that hurt.”

I said when I read this that he was covering for his poor play by saying this. The Ravens didn't put him on an injury report before this.

It may be something, may not be.

BTW, get used to a guy named Glenn Younes; he's on the radio here in Baltimore, 105.7 The Fan...he's the director of Ed Reed's Foundation also. Huge player apologist.

:chickendance:

GP
03-27-2013, 05:02 PM
Well, we need to get rid of Ed Reed since he won't really help us.

And while we're at it, let's get rid of our new fullback, Greg Jones, too.

And our punter.

After all, we're better with Glover Quin and James Casey and Donnie Jones. I mean, last year proved it...oh wait, whoops. My bad. Glover maxed out his ceiling in terms of his coverage skills on the deep ball vs. great QBs, James Casey was a hybrid FB/HB/TE experiment that involved us also adding Lawrence Vickers (thinking the hybrid solution would suffice, but it didn't), and Donnie Jones shanked punts down the stretch and into the playoffs that hurt us.

Not to mention the cost of keeping Quin would have been $1 million more than what we're giving Ed per-year, and the Eagles overpaid for James Casey just like the Raiders overpaid for Brisiel, the Bengals overpaid for Jason Allen, the Bills WAY overpaid for Williams, I could go on and on with how many teams overpaid for our players in terms of what production they received.

Yet Ed Reed is garbage. LOL. "Ozzie knows how to let a guy go a year early rather than a year too late" and yet Ozzie has had eight departures of key starters this off-season. I mean, it's not like there's a MONSTER quarterback contract driving these moves or anything, right? Heh.

Ozzie put together a Super Bowl team and tore it down a few weeks later when he had to save face for the organization by overpaying a mediocre QB. I'm not happy that McNair extended Schaub, but at least he didn't do it up as bad as the Ravens did for Flacco. So we got that going for us, which is nice.

Just thought I'd feed the troll since it's 5:00 and quitting time around here.

drs23
03-27-2013, 07:11 PM
...Just thought I'd feed the troll since it's 5:00 and quitting time around here.

I heard the troll was full and left. No???

Uncle Rico
03-27-2013, 07:26 PM
I like this shunning tactic in order not to feed the troll! If you dont respond to any of his posts, and dont direct anything his way, why would he stay? He could go hang out in the KC board, or heck why not just join any random team and start padding that post count? LOL

PapaL
03-27-2013, 09:31 PM
I like this shunning tactic in order not to feed the troll! If you dont respond to any of his posts, and dont direct anything his way, why would he stay? He could go hang out in the KC board, or heck why not just join any random team and start padding that post count? LOL

I thought it was the Titans and How Pollard sucks without Reed covering for him thread.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2013, 09:54 PM
I thought it was the Titans and How Pollard sucks without Reed covering for him thread.

That is awesome!! I see what you did there......

BTW, How are you doing on your journey BrakoPapalos??? :D

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2013, 10:44 PM
Question for you guys who know about it; the torn labrum would show up in a physical, right?


Not necessarily on physical exam. But rather on MRI.

GP
03-28-2013, 12:40 PM
I heard the troll was full and left. No???

Maybe so.

Maybe his keeper has him on a Traveling Oddities Tour where he goes from board to board, trolling a team's fans and seeing if he can get love for his Ravens while also finding ways to make a-hole comments about their team at the same time.

You can't keep a talent like handswarmer in one location for too long. You have to keep the gypsie wagon rolling along, always looking for greener pastures out there. Trolls require an insane amount of food and attention, of course, so it's imperative that he stays as active as he can.

The last thing this world needs is a troll who is barely getting by. Please consider joining me in the Adopt A Troll coalition. We can make all trolls know that they are needed and valued. Friends don't let friends starve trolls.

LOL.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 12:47 PM
Not necessarily on physical exam. But rather on MRI.

They don't take an MRI during a player's physical exam?

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2013, 01:11 PM
They don't take an MRI during a player's physical exam?

They should evaluate this type of injury with a RECENT MRI. But I've seen some "evaluations" based on old MRIs where progressive changes are not recognized....thus negating the validity of an adequate evaluation. Hopefully, the Texans requested their own "contemporary" study prior to the contract as part of their physical.

76Texan
03-28-2013, 02:50 PM
They should evaluate this type of injury with a RECENT MRI. But I've seen some "evaluations" based on old MRIs where progressive changes are not recognized....thus negating the validity of an adequate evaluation. Hopefully, the Texans requested their own "contemporary" study prior to the contract as part of their physical.

I hope they are not neglecting it.

Trap_Star
03-28-2013, 10:44 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36792322.jpg

thunderkyss
03-29-2013, 07:28 AM
After all, we're better with Glover Quin...

Not to mention the cost of keeping Quin would have been $1 million more than what we're giving Ed per-year

Actually, it looks like we're paying Reed more.

Glover's deal =5 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/glover-quin/) - $23.5M - $5.25 signing bonus - $2.05M cap hit for 2013 - $5.05M cap hit for 2014 - $5.05M cap hit for 2015


Reed's deal =3 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/ed-reed/) - $15M - $2M signing Bonus - $3.3M cap hit for 2013 - $5.3M cap hit for 2014 - $6.3M cap hit for 2015

Ed Reed counts more against our cap over the next three years than Quin will count vs the Lions' cap.

GP
03-29-2013, 08:28 AM
I received a PM from the troll.

Didn't even read it.

Trolls gonna' troll.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 09:35 AM
Actually, it looks like we're paying Reed more.

Glover's deal =5 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/glover-quin/) - $23.5M - $5.25 signing bonus - $2.05M cap hit for 2013 - $5.05M cap hit for 2014 - $5.05M cap hit for 2015


Reed's deal =3 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/ed-reed/) - $15M - $2M signing Bonus - $3.3M cap hit for 2013 - $5.3M cap hit for 2014 - $6.3M cap hit for 2015

Ed Reed counts more against our cap over the next three years than Quin will count vs the Lions' cap.cap space is different than what we actually dishes out each year .

We are only responsible to pay $6M to get Reed to play in 2013; the Lions spend $250K more.

If both players last thru 2014, the Lions would still have to spend $250K more in actual money.

There's no guarantee that we even bring Reed back on 2014.

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2013, 09:41 AM
cap space is different than what we actually dishes out each year .

We are only responsible to pay $6M to get Reed to play in 2013; the Lions spend $250K more.

If both players last thru 2014, the Lions would still have to spend $250K more in actual money.

There's no guarantee that we even bring Reed back on 2014.

I thought that $5 mil was guaranteed.......and that there was only a potential for an additional $1 mil bonus for meeting goals of staying on the field/performance........POSSIBLY making a total of $6 mil for 2013?

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2013, 10:15 AM
Actually, it looks like we're paying Reed more.

Glover's deal =5 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/glover-quin/) - $23.5M - $5.25 signing bonus - $2.05M cap hit for 2013 - $5.05M cap hit for 2014 - $5.05M cap hit for 2015


Reed's deal =3 year deal (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/ed-reed/) - $15M - $2M signing Bonus - $3.3M cap hit for 2013 - $5.3M cap hit for 2014 - $6.3M cap hit for 2015

Ed Reed counts more against our cap over the next three years than Quin will count vs the Lions' cap.

Honestly I'd be surprised if we keep Reed around for the 3rd year. Granted I haven't really looked at the contract figures too closely but I feel like we'll keep Reed for two years and then release him with very minimal cap consequences. Glover on the other hand would be more severe. I really liked him on this team and wish him the best but personally I'd rather have Reed over Quin for the next two seasons even at their respective ages.

EllisUnit
03-29-2013, 10:22 AM
This is Reeds retiriment money and he knows that. I'm sure he will do his best to squeeze all the money out of this deal that he can. I expect Reed to play like a HOFer just for that reason. IMO

ChampionTexan
03-29-2013, 10:32 AM
I thought that $5 mil was guaranteed.......and that there was only a potential for an additional $1 mil bonus for meeting goals of staying on the field/performance........POSSIBLY making a total of $6 mil for 2013?

Spottrac has him at $5 Million guaranteed, a $4 Million sigining bonus, a $1 Million 2013 roster bonus, and a $1 Million 2013 base salary. This is a $3.33 cap hit for 2013.

Other reports I've seen (Rotoworld for one) have described it as a $2 Million signing bonus, $1 Million dollar 2013 roster bonus, and a $3 Million base salary for 2013 ($6 million guaranteed). This would be a $4.67 Million 2013 cap hit

If Spottrac's wrong, it wouldn't be the first time for them to take a little while to get their act together. ( In fact, they currently indicate a $2 Million signing bonus, but then calculate the cap hit using $4 Million).

The $6 Million for the first year (cash payment - not cap figure) seems to be pretty consistent. Everything else, I'll hold off on buying into.

76Texan
03-29-2013, 11:34 AM
Spottrac has him at $5 Million guaranteed, a $4 Million sigining bonus, a $1 Million 2013 roster bonus, and a $1 Million 2013 base salary. This is a $3.33 cap hit for 2013.

Other reports I've seen (Rotoworld for one) have described it as a $2 Million signing bonus, $1 Million dollar 2013 roster bonus, and a $3 Million base salary for 2013 ($6 million guaranteed). This would be a $4.67 Million 2013 cap hit

If Spottrac's wrong, it wouldn't be the first time for them to take a little while to get their act together. ( In fact, they currently indicate a $2 Million signing bonus, but then calculate the cap hit using $4 Million).

The $6 Million for the first year (cash payment - not cap figure) seems to be pretty consistent. Everything else, I'll hold off on buying into.

^^^ This

thunderkyss
03-29-2013, 06:14 PM
cap space is different than what we actually dishes out each year .


I mispoke. The fact remains, that we did not sign Ed Reed for a $1M less (for 2013) than the Lions signed Quin.

Signing Reed (in lieu of Quin) has little to do with saving cap space this year, or "saving money for Cushing" next year either. Reed's cap number is more than Quins in both years.

Yes, he can be cut for the 2015 season if needed to pay Watt, or if he decides to retire, or if flat out can't play.

GP
03-30-2013, 12:58 AM
cap space is different than what we actually dishes out each year .

We are only responsible to pay $6M to get Reed to play in 2013; the Lions spend $250K more.

If both players last thru 2014, the Lions would still have to spend $250K more in actual money.

There's no guarantee that we even bring Reed back on 2014.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who understands basic math.

thunderkyss
03-30-2013, 04:32 PM
Not to mention the cost of keeping Quin would have been $1 million more than what we're giving Ed per-year...


I feel personally responsible for this as I had stated that Reed would cost $1M less than Quin would for 2013. That was upon seeing the initial numbers of both contracts & not the structure. I didn't even know what the signing bonuses were at the time.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who understands basic math.

In this situation, the actual money paid to the player is of little concern to us, especially if you are not among those who frequently pay for game day tickets, and the overpriced foods & beverages they serve on game day.

As far as an organization goes & the future of this team, the only thing that really matters is the cap number. The Detroit Lions signed Quin for a smaller cap number in 2013, 2014, & 2015, than Reed's cap numbers for those same years.

My friend '76 is a dyed in the wool homer. He will find anything to twist & put a situation in the Texans' favor. But the fact remains in this situation we are paying a premium for Ed Reed (over Glover Quin) the question should be is he worth it?

Things working in Quin's favor.

It appears Wade liked to put a safety in the box
Quin got his hands on more balls than just about any safety in the league, passes defensed, interceptions, FF, Fumbles recoverd
Quin is younger


Things working in Reed's favor

Better ball skills
Not intimidated by top QBs
Intimidates top QBs


I think Reed is worth the premium, & I'd rather argue that, than argue Reed is cheaper (which isn't true, not where it counts to us).

Uncle Rico
03-30-2013, 05:13 PM
I'm hoping the guy plays so good that most of us start to consider him underpaid! I really have the feeling that he's gonna play great, and hopefully will still get the chance to go out on top.

Dutchrudder
04-01-2013, 04:45 PM
Interdasting....

When the Baltimore Ravens lost Ed Reed to the Houston Texans and released Bernard Pollard, speculation immediately turned to their roles in the near mutiny that came via a closed-door team meeting back on Halloween.

Safeties Reed and Pollard openly challenged John Harbaugh's decision to practice in full pads that day, according to a Yahoo! Sports report. The end result was described as a "big group-therapy session" which Harbaugh handled in "amazing" fashion.

Pollard recently told KILT-AM in Houston there is "no truth at all" to the mutiny story, adding he was "offended" by Harbaugh's handling of the reports.

The word "mutiny" drew plenty of headlines. Pollard maintains Harbaugh simply "opened up the floor" and a healthy discussion ensued. He wonders why Harbaugh hasn't bothered to set the record straight.

"I'm offended by that, because we walked away from that situation thinking, 'OK, everybody's on the same page. We're all good,'" Pollard said. "Like I said, I'm just a little offended that the coach never stepped up and said anything."

Harbaugh's relationship with Reed "just blossomed," according to the coach, and the two remain "very close" despite the future Hall of Famer's departure.

The same can't be said for Harbaugh's relationship with Pollard, who apparently still harbors a grudge. The Ravens freed up $1 million in salary-cap space through Pollard's release. Perhaps more importantly, they got rid of a potential clash between coach and player in 2013.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000156319/article/bernard-pollard-offended-by-ravens-mutiny-story

HoustonFrog
04-02-2013, 07:01 AM
Funny, conflicting story

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/259093/football-headlines?r=1



According to the Baltimore Sun, coach John Harbaugh wanted FS Ed Reed back with the Ravens "as much as he wants a root canal."
In other words, Harbaugh didn't want Reed back at all. The Sun's Mike Preston found it "interesting" that the national media made it seem like the Texans and Ravens were in a "bidding war" for Reed when Baltimore was never serious about re-signing him. On Monday's ESPN Football Today podcast, Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson suggested Reed and Michael Huff are similar players at this stage of their careers. Reed got a three-year, $15 million deal from Houston. The Ravens stole Huff for $6 million over three seasons -- George Wilson money.
Source: Baltimore Sun Apr 2 - 12:34 AM

steelbtexan
04-02-2013, 07:35 AM
This is Reeds retiriment money and he knows that. I'm sure he will do his best to squeeze all the money out of this deal that he can. I expect Reed to play like a HOFer just for that reason. IMO

I hope this isn't a Emmitt to the Cardinals, Mamath to the Rams, Unitas to the Chargers type situation.

Hopefully it's more like Woodson to the Ravens

Rey
04-02-2013, 07:43 AM
Or Dawkins to the broncos.

CloakNNNdagger
04-02-2013, 07:48 AM
Funny, conflicting story

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/259093/football-headlines?r=1


Breaking down Michael Huff's $6 million Ravens deal, salary-cap update (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-breaking-down-michael-huffs-6-million-ravens-deal-20130401,0,7048744.story)

New free safety given $1.5 million in guaranteed money

By Aaron WilsonThe Baltimore Sun
10:36 a.m. EDT, April 1, 2013


Ravens free safety Michael Huff's three-year, $6 million contract includes a $1.5 million signing bonus, according to a league source with knowledge of the deal.

The replacement for Ed Reed and former Oakland Raiders first-round draft pick is due an $850,000 base salary in 2013 with a salary-cap figure of $1.35 million.

In 2014, Huff is due a $1.75 million base salary and carries a salary-cap figure of $2.25 million.

In 2015, Huff is due a $1.9 million base salary and carries a salary-cap figure of $2.4 million.

GP
04-02-2013, 08:34 AM
The more I read, the more I think Ed Reed is not there because the coach doesn't want him there.

If so, this'll play to our advantage. Especially if and when we play the Ravens.

Maybe this is the year the Patriots slide a little, the Ravens slide a little, and we've made some acquisitions and draft picks AND stay healthy enough to maybe get to the AFCC and even the Super Bowl.

If we do, the Ed Reed signing will look like a genius move by the Texans.

ThaShark316
04-02-2013, 09:18 AM
Or Dawkins to the broncos.

Um, I hope it's Dawkins to the Broncos. He was still bad ass in Denver; at least he was in year one.

thunderkyss
04-02-2013, 09:30 AM
I hope this isn't a Emmitt to the Cardinals, Mamath to the Rams, Unitas to the Chargers type situation.



Green to the Texans.

thunderkyss
04-02-2013, 09:38 AM
Funny, conflicting story
Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson suggested Reed and Michael Huff are similar players at this stage of their careers.
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/259093/football-headlines?r=1

I find it interesting that they are "similar" players at this stage of their careers. One of them misses tackles, because his timing's a little off, he doesn't pack the punch he once had, & players tend to leap frog him far too often. The other misses tackles because he gets trucked, ran over, & at times avoids contact.

Hmmm... I don't think that's similar at all.

Maybe this is the year the Patriots slide a little, the Ravens slide a little, and we've made some acquisitions and draft picks AND stay healthy enough to maybe get to the AFCC and even the Super Bowl.


It's rare nowadays that the best team in football wins the Super Bowl. Who'd have thunk the Ravens had a shot at the end of December? Other than the shot that all teams have by making the play-offs. Not that I'm hating on the Ravens, but I thought they would be 1 & Done, especially since their first game was against the team I thought was the best in the AFC at the time. Denver.

We don't need the Patriots to slide (I know you said we needed them to be off their game last season for us to stand a chance to beat them & you were right.. I was wrong). What we need is for our guys to man up when they need to, on both sides of the ball when it counts.

76Texan
04-02-2013, 09:42 AM
The Ravens were the best team; they had Joe Flacco!:kitten:

bckey
04-02-2013, 04:19 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-harbaugh-didnt-want-reed-133617397--nfl.html


According to this article John Harbaugh didn't want Reed back. Don't care either way just thought I would pass it along.

srrono
04-03-2013, 02:07 AM
With Reed, Wade may go to single high safety look

Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 4m
I'd look for a few teams to copy the SEA secondary in this draft…Big CB's, 1 run stuffing safety, 1 over the top/floating safety.


Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 2m
A few years ago, everyone was obsessed with having "interchangeable" safeties…SEA has teams re-thinking that setup.

thunderkyss
04-03-2013, 02:26 PM
With Reed, Wade may go to single high safety look

Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 4m
I'd look for a few teams to copy the SEA secondary in this draft…Big CB's, 1 run stuffing safety, 1 over the top/floating safety.


Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 2m
A few years ago, everyone was obsessed with having "interchangeable" safeties…SEA has teams re-thinking that setup.

Gee.... that's what we did last year.

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2013, 04:53 PM
Gee.... that's what we did last year.

And I wouldn't exactly say it worked all that well.

Uncle Rico
04-03-2013, 08:59 PM
And I wouldn't exactly say it worked all that well.

I dont feel they were running the right personnel. Manning cant cover over the top, he needs to be in the box, not Quin. This year with Reed in center field, Manning can use some of the physicality to meet at the point of attack, but also to cover the quicker tight ends and not get overpowered by them.

HOU-TEX
05-03-2013, 11:46 AM
I'm not sure about a hip labrum, but the labrum surgery on my shoulder took for ever to feel right again. Either way, expect DJ and the other young safeties to get a lot of reps throughout this off season

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26 2m
The Texans are hopeful safety Ed Reed will be ready for camp after undergoing arthroscopic surgery to repair small tear in labrum in his hip

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2013, 12:01 PM
I'm not sure about a hip labrum, but the labrum surgery on my shoulder took for ever to feel right again. Either way, expect DJ and the other young safeties to get a lot of reps throughout this off season

I think the "hip" part is wrong.

He played most of last season with a torn labrum, right? We knew that, didn't we?

Texn4life
05-03-2013, 12:07 PM
I think it may be a blessing in disguise in a way. Not only will DJ get a lot of reps, but it'll give Pleasant a good chance to separate himself from Keo. Reed's presence in the locker room alone will help out these young guys through OTAs and minicamps. Just be ready for week 1 Ed!

badboy
05-03-2013, 12:08 PM
I thought it was a known thing with no anticipatory delay to season.

HOU-TEX
05-03-2013, 01:10 PM
I think the "hip" part is wrong.

He played most of last season with a torn labrum, right? We knew that, didn't we?

Yeah, I'd heard about the issue with the labrum in the shoulder around mid season or so. This is the 1st I've heard of the hip labrum injury. There are multiple people reporting the hip, so maybe it's something new?

SW H-TOWN
05-03-2013, 01:16 PM
I think it may be a blessing in disguise in a way. Not only will DJ get a lot of reps, but it'll give Pleasant a good chance to separate himself from Keo. Reed's presence in the locker room alone will help out these young guys through OTAs and minicamps. Just be ready for week 1 Ed!

Good point.

TexansSeminole
05-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I'd heard about the issue with the labrum in the shoulder around mid season or so. This is the 1st I've heard of the hip labrum injury. There are multiple people reporting the hip, so maybe it's something new?

Right, I have read about the hip several times in the past week or so. I would say that it is his hip and not a mistake.

eriadoc
10-22-2013, 10:55 AM
I guess an old Ed Reed beats a young Shiloh Keo. Anybody agree? OK, Agreed.

That's not looking so good right now.

With whom? Ed Reed? Hate to break it to you, but Quin was better than Reed this year. You think Quin is replaceable with a rookie? Rookies make lots of dumb mistakes, and safety is the last line of defense - kind of where you don't want rookie mistakes. So you just coached up Quin for four years and then let him go just to start that cycle over again.

Ultimately, I agree with you that Quin is replaceable, but I don't see anything the Texans did in preparing to replace him, nor do I see Ed Reed as a replacement. So if he's replaceable, let's see them replace him.

That's fine, but then you're basically admitting that they haven't prepared for his replacement and in fact will not be replacing him this season at all. They'll just be going with a stopgap. So I take you back to your original statement - if Quin is replaceable, then why the hell aren't they replacing him? Hint: He's not so replaceable right now.

Also, your assertion would make a lot more sense if they had even offered Quin a contract before he went to Detroit. They never offered him anything at all, which tells me they aren't even trying to keep him.

If they were in win now mode, they'd put the best players on the field. That would be Glover Quin ahead of Ed Reed, sad to say.

$6M a year is just freakin' ridiculous. Yeah, Rick Smith is looking smarter every day, right?

I am convinced Ed Reed is still the same player he once was.

Yeah, not so much.

YeaLikeRightNow
10-22-2013, 11:07 AM
I would have played for half as much, and suffered twice as much - for the money he has been payed to occupy space.