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bhsman
03-15-2013, 05:29 PM
For what it's worth, Chad might just be talking about this (http://twitpic.com/c7m4dm), but don't let me stop you guys from losing it over the thought of him across from Andre.

ThaJokaa
03-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Jacoby had his issues, but he was nowhere near the distraction that Ochocinco was for the Bengals. Jacoby right now is a much better player than Chad has been in a few years.

I'm sure AJ would keep him in check, a couple of haymakers and its done. Just ask Innegan, he aint mess with AJ after that..

thunderkyss
03-15-2013, 05:32 PM
That's because he's leaving out the bulk of the contract.

http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Joe%20Flacco&Position=QB&Team=Ravens

2016: $28,550,000
2017: $31,150,000
2018: $24,750,000

I'm referring to the first three years. The article & a couple just like it are saying Flacco is going to earn $51M the first two years & $62 over the first three.

Maybe they meant to say he'll receive $62M over the first three years, but even if that's true, handswarmer can't be right about Flacco's cap number.

Edit: Let me go over it again, but it looks like they're counting his prorated bonus & his bonus as money received.

srrono
03-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Jacoby had his issues, but he was nowhere near the distraction that Ochocinco was for the Bengals. Jacoby right now is a much better player than Chad has been in a few years.

Signing CJ to a 1 yr deal as a prove it signing and then draft another wr .
I would be all for guys competing to make the team.

rolyat93
03-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Chad can't touch Jacoby. Will never be a Texan.

http://i.qkme.me/359fim.jpg

What does Omer Asik have to do with this?

bckey
03-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Lets go after Dumerville. Denver messed up.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/denver-broncos-elvis-dumervil-takes-considerable-pay-cut-201656213--nfl.html

ASidd_1990
03-15-2013, 05:36 PM
Chad can't touch Jacoby. Will never be a Texan.

http://i.qkme.me/359fim.jpg

So what does Omer Asik have to do with this?

:lol:

thunderkyss
03-15-2013, 05:39 PM
Chad can't touch Jacoby. Will never be a Texan.


Right, Chad is not Texans' worthy.

tru80texan
03-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm not sure what you're saying here, I think you're talking about Dumerville. If you are, I think that's a good point. Why would Dumerville take a paycut he'll get paid if he hits free agency. This dude just came off a double digit sack year for the third time in a 6 year career.

Then Philly gets Barwin to ink a deal where he's only getting $4.5M over the first three years of the deal. Only $8Million guaranteed over the first 2 years, then you can cut him at no cost. I see no reason we couldn't afford to pay Connor $4.5M/yr (http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/3/14/4105994/connor-barwins-contract-is-very-team-friendly). & if Rick Smith offered Connor something similar before 2012 & couldn't seal the deal..... I mean, c'mon guys. The writing is on the wall.

& if Quin is signing deals similar to what we would've/should've/could've offered??? I'm sorry (not really) but the man (Smith) has a lot to prove.

I was talking about Elway compared to Smith initially as a joke towards someone else. Of course I was talking positive about Elway & someone felt the need to state he screwed up w/ Dumervil by allowing him to become a FA by not getting his new reduced contract to the league in time. It remains to he seen what happens next based on the speculation, but it doesn't erase what Elway has accomplished w/ his team imo.

Dutchrudder
03-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm referring to the first three years. The article & a couple just like it are saying Flacco is going to earn $51M the first two years & $62 over the first three.

Maybe they meant to say he'll receive $62M over the first three years, but even if that's true, handswarmer can't be right about Flacco's cap number.

Edit: Let me go over it again, but it looks like they're counting his prorated bonus & his bonus as money received.

Ah, I see what you meant now. Yeah, signing bonuses are always reported as what the player received that year, like when Arian Foster got ~18m last year for signing his new deal. 6m in salary + 12m signing bonus. Cap hits are separate from that, it's just a context issue.

Although, the Flacco deal overall is crazy. His guaranteed money and salary structure is completely unmanageable after the 3rd year, and it just begs for a restructuring+extension. I like Flacco, but I don't think for a moment that he's worth the kind of money he got in that deal.

srrono
03-15-2013, 05:41 PM
Lets go after Dumerville. Denver messed up.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/denver-broncos-elvis-dumervil-takes-considerable-pay-cut-201656213--nfl.html

Would be great here but if Hou can't afford Barwin how could they afford Elvis?

JamesBill
03-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Lets go after Dumerville. Denver messed up.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/denver-broncos-elvis-dumervil-takes-considerable-pay-cut-201656213--nfl.html

It might keep Schaub "Motivated"

htowntexans1985
03-15-2013, 05:54 PM
/thread


He ain't coming. Nothing to see here fellas.

bckey
03-15-2013, 06:05 PM
Would be great here but if Hou can't afford Barwin how could they afford Elvis?

I know. It would cost $8 million. Way out of our range.

JamesBill
03-15-2013, 06:11 PM
I know. It would cost $8 million. Way out of our range.

Elvis @ 8 million > Barwin @ 6

Playoffs
03-15-2013, 06:15 PM
Okay, that's the most animated & excited I've ever seen/heard AJ -- not much by other standards, but for AJ it was a outright 'happy dance'.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jVrvsfx_3I8/TumLGYA79tI/AAAAAAAAFr8/8aWZXMy4awA/s1600/snoopy.jpg

Rufus Jarvis
03-15-2013, 06:15 PM
I heard, listened and watched everything yesterday waiting for news to drop about if Reed was signing with Houston.

I've been out of pocket today and have not heard anything besides Reed left Houston without a deal being done.

Can someone catch me up here?

Are the Texans and Reed still negotiating?

Is Charles Woodson still an option?

Is there any real interest from the Texans with WR Chad Johnson?

For the most part, I'm just looking to get up-to-speed on whats going on with Reed and the Texans because I haven't been around a computer a lot today.

Thanks!

Lurvinator11
03-15-2013, 06:16 PM
If only you knew what I do you'd jump for joy right now. I'll just say that I hope you like Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard and Eric Winston. There's going to be a trifecta signing going down tomorrow. I think the Texans are positioning themselves nicely well before the draft. Enjoy the evening guys. Let's call it a Friday of champions here in Houston!

Yeah, about this?

I had the feeling you were kidding, but did you really have to get our hopes up at the same time?
You lost a ton of credibility with this one.

Playoffs
03-15-2013, 06:17 PM
Yes. Maybe. No.

Texn4life
03-15-2013, 06:17 PM
Okay, that's the most animated & excited I've ever seen/heard AJ -- not much by other standards, but for AJ it was a outright 'happy dance'.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jVrvsfx_3I8/TumLGYA79tI/AAAAAAAAFr8/8aWZXMy4awA/s1600/snoopy.jpg

Inquiring minds wanna know what this is about.

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 06:18 PM
I know. It would cost $8 million. Way out of our range.

There are all sorts of ways to structure contracts. Look at Flacco or what Miami is doing with all its signings. Flacco's contract averages over $20 mil per year but the cap hit next year is $6.8 mil.

JamesBill
03-15-2013, 06:21 PM
He's actually good friends with Andre Johnson.

And Frank Gore and Chuck Pagano and reggie wayne

Playoffs
03-15-2013, 06:22 PM
Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
Source says Texans were closer to $5 million per year with Ed Reed, not $6 million to $7 million avg. he's looking for. Talks to continue.

:fans:

Vinny
03-15-2013, 06:27 PM
I don't get the Eyore attitude. It's like there is nothing which can be done will be satisfactory. If he leaves we were just being played. If he signs we overpaid.
No Eyore attitude here. I just don't like the deal. 12 year player, past his prime and not a physical tackler anymore. Playing in Wade's line em up and play man cover defense. Sure he was a great player, but unless you get him cheap, any contract 6-7 mil a year will be too much. You don't have to be a pessimist to not like this deal.

76Texan
03-15-2013, 06:30 PM
John Elway is already in the process of convincing many that he can be a very good GM very quickly while we are still holding on to hope that Smith can eventually hit & surpass the "ok" GM standard. LOL! Just messing w/ you...sorta.

At any rate, if you like to "discuss" Elway, start a thread in the NFL forum and I will be happy to join you.

Let's not annoint the guy before all the facts are laid out.

JamesBill
03-15-2013, 06:31 PM
No Eyore attitude here. I just don't like the deal. 12 year player, past his prime and not a physical tackler anymore. Sure he was a great player, but unless you get him cheap, any contract 6-7 mil a year will be too much. You don't have to be a pessimist to not like this deal.

I would much rather have a cheaper vet as well but if the Texans see the Patriots as unbeatable, Reed would be the guy to get.

76Texan
03-15-2013, 06:32 PM
No Eyore attitude here. I just don't like the deal. 12 year player, past his prime and not a physical tackler anymore. Sure he was a great player, but unless you get him cheap, any contract 6-7 mil a year will be too much. You don't have to be a pessimist to not like this deal.

There's no indication that it will be in the $6-7M range though.

Vinny
03-15-2013, 06:34 PM
There's no indication that it will be in the $6-7M range though.
He want's 7 mil a year...that's an indication. Texans want to pay 5 supposedly - That's an indication of why it's not done. Any more obvious stuff to point out?

dtran04
03-15-2013, 06:35 PM
Looks like Reed's attempt to buy time and make the Texans blink didn't work.

76Texan
03-15-2013, 06:38 PM
He want's 7 mil a year...that's an indication. Texans want to pay 5 supposedly - That's an indication of why it's not done. Any more obvious stuff to point out?

Well, if it's not done due to the difference then no harm to it.

If anything, I'd like to see an incentive clause in his contract.

Nawzer
03-15-2013, 06:39 PM
If he wants $6-$7 million then it's a no go and thanks for visiting. I'm leery to pay him even $5 million a year.

SW H-TOWN
03-15-2013, 06:39 PM
No Eyore attitude here. I just don't like the deal. 12 year player, past his prime and not a physical tackler anymore. Playing in Wade's line em up and play man cover defense. Sure he was a great player, but unless you get him cheap, any contract 6-7 mil a year will be too much. You don't have to be a pessimist to not like this deal.

Agreed, 6M-7M is too much. We need to sign Mikell and Roy Miller. Well, Miller just signed with the Jags. I think he would have been a cheap repalcement/upgrade over Cody. Can we get Mikell on the plane or something, we need a vet safety.

GP
03-15-2013, 06:57 PM
If rumors are true that we wanted $5 mill-per and Ed wanted closer to an average of around $6 or $7 mill-per....then, yeah it's over.

For us, that $1 or $2 mill is vital for other needs. And frankly this possibly Ed trying for a big deal with the Texans, cashing in a favor of Andre Johnson to take a run at joining our team at the same time. Two birds with one stone. After this, our front office should tell AJ to stop the twitter invitations to his pals out there (psssst! It doesn't work out well for us, Andre.).

Time is ticking, though, so the Texans have to decide if they sit out too long and miss out on the FAs that could be money well spent...or if we maybe overpay a bit for someone right now ASAP.

I don't think the fans will stomach non-action right now, then a really putrid free agency signing in the summer which adds up to being a farce when we really screwed the pooch waiting on Ed Reed and watching other guys get signed.

They need to peg $5 million or maybe up to $6 million to spend on ANY freaking player they think can even marginally help our team....then use the remaining $5 million or so for rookie deals and emergency cash if we need to sign someone during camp or preseason due to an injury of ours.

If the Texans don't follow my strategy, then they are dumb. I do this on a message board all day, so I'm pretty good at imaginary GM. A legend in my own mind, of course. LOL.

HoustonRaven
03-15-2013, 07:01 PM
Reed leaving town is the biggest indicator of them all.

"Talks continuing" is spin.

NitroGSXR
03-15-2013, 07:01 PM
That's An awfully big plate of crow you are getting ready to eat. Or raven I guess in this particular situation

Almost 24 hours later and I am still waiting to have my plate of ravens.

GP
03-15-2013, 07:05 PM
Almost 24 hours later and I am still waiting to have my plate of ravens.

I told you that you might be the one who is right all along!

Ha ha! You were like a ninja, out of the darkness came a blowdart right into our neck and we thought it was a mosquito bite.....then we wondered why we fell down on the floor, convulsed for awhile, then slipped into peaceful sleep.

Nitro ninja'd us. And 98% of you guys never saw him do it.

But I did. I nodded to the ninja, he nodded back in mutual respect, and I walked away with my life that night. I now live to tell the story of that fateful night that NitroGSXR slipped into our master's dwelling and left only one standing...me.

76Texan
03-15-2013, 07:09 PM
I told you that you might be the one who is right all along!

Ha ha! You were like a ninja, out of the darkness came a blowdart right into our neck and we thought it was a mosquito bite.....then we wondered why we fell down on the floor, convulsed for awhile, then slipped into peaceful sleep.

Nitro ninja'd us. And 98% of you guys never saw him do it.

But I did. I nodded to the ninja, he nodded back in mutual respect, and I walked away with my life that night. I now live to tell the story of that fateful night that NitroGSXR slipped into our master's dwelling and left only one standing...me.

Hey, it's the off-season.

It's always fun talking about possible FA acquisition.

NitroGSXR
03-15-2013, 07:10 PM
I told you that you might be the one who is right all along!

Ha ha! You were like a ninja, out of the darkness came a blowdart right into our neck and we thought it was a mosquito bite.....then we wondered why we fell down on the floor, convulsed for awhile, then slipped into peaceful sleep.

Nitro ninja'd us. And 98% of you guys never saw him do it.

But I did. I nodded to the ninja, he nodded back in mutual respect, and I walked away with my life that night. I now live to tell the story of that fateful night that NitroGSXR slipped into our master's dwelling and left only one standing...me.

This is me in real life... sporting the Ninja facepaint and ready to pull out my sword.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/603365_10100877719859536_440784413_n.jpg

htowntexans1985
03-15-2013, 07:38 PM
My sources tell me he's going to New England. My Sources are coming from my gut.

Lucky
03-15-2013, 07:45 PM
I think this is just bluster from the FO.
Boy did you smell this one. This was definitely their Casserly moment.

SCOTTexans
03-15-2013, 07:48 PM
Jacoby had his issues, but he was nowhere near the distraction that Ochocinco was for the Bengals. Jacoby right now is a much better player than Chad has been in a few years.

Yeah part of my point, not texan worthy

bhsman
03-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Boy did you smell this one. This was definitely their Casserly moment.

And if Reed agrees? Don't give us an excuse to point out how silly you are before anything is settled.

If Reed signs, he signs. If he doesn't, we'll find somebody else. The defeatism and misplaced anger here on this forum over this is hilarious.

eriadoc
03-15-2013, 07:53 PM
This is me in real life... sporting the Ninja facepaint and ready to pull out my sword.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/603365_10100877719859536_440784413_n.jpg

You know, from the front that looks like a David Carr jersey. :kitten:

Yankee_In_TX
03-15-2013, 07:54 PM
If rumors are true that we wanted $5 mill-per and Ed wanted closer to an average of around $6 or $7 mill-per....then, yeah it's over.

For us, that $1 or $2 mill is vital for other needs.

This is why I didn't want to sign him. Sounded like that's what he wanted and it would be stupid to give it to him.

I was ok with a cheap price, but even 5 mil makes me nervous.

Vance87
03-15-2013, 07:54 PM
You know, from the front that looks like a David Carr jersey. :kitten:

Not the mention the guy in the back sporting the #99 WALL jersey....the hell :wadepalm:

NitroGSXR
03-15-2013, 07:55 PM
Not the mention the guy in the back sporting the #99 WALL jersey....the hell :wadepalm:

Lol.

TexansFight
03-15-2013, 07:55 PM
Ed Reed leaving Reliant Stadium without a signed contract just shows that the Texans ARE NOT committed to bringing a Super Bowl trophy to Houston. Boo to Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak. We are in cap trouble, have more holes than we had at the end of the season and Schaub is going to be here for the next couple of years.

Playoffs
03-15-2013, 07:56 PM
I told you that you might be the one who is right all along!

Ha ha! You were like a ninja, out of the darkness came a blowdart right into our neck and we thought it was a mosquito bite.....then we wondered why we fell down on the floor, convulsed for awhile, then slipped into peaceful sleep.

Nitro ninja'd us. And 98% of you guys never saw him do it.

But I did. I nodded to the ninja, he nodded back in mutual respect, and I walked away with my life that night. I now live to tell the story of that fateful night that NitroGSXR slipped into our master's dwelling and left only one standing...me.

Geez, it's barely past 6 in the evening and you're already into ..... well, whatever it is you get into when you want to get twisted. :kitten:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

Lucky
03-15-2013, 07:57 PM
And if Reed agrees? Don't give us an excuse to point out how silly you are before anything is settled.
Dude, I've got over 11,000 posts to point out my silliness. And there's plenty more where that came from. Wait until I say something that really upsets you before getting your panties in a bunch.

Lucky
03-15-2013, 08:00 PM
Ed Reed leaving Reliant Stadium without a signed contract just shows that the Texans ARE NOT committed to bringing a Super Bowl trophy to Houston. Boo to Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak. We are in cap trouble, have more holes than we had at the end of the season and Schaub is going to be here for the next couple of years.
So the Texans aren't committed to win because they didn't sign Reed to a big contract? Though you believe the team is in cap trouble? See any conflict between those two statements?

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 08:04 PM
My sources tell me he's going to New England. My Sources are coming from my gut.

Pats just signed Cardinals Safety Wilson

otisbean
03-15-2013, 08:09 PM
Dude, I've got over 11,000 posts to point out my silliness. And there's plenty more where that came from. Wait until I say something that really upsets you before getting your panties in a bunch.

Funniest post I've seen in a looong time!

thunderkyss
03-15-2013, 08:09 PM
If rumors are true that we wanted $5 mill-per and Ed wanted closer to an average of around $6 or $7 mill-per....then, yeah it's over.

For us, that $1 or $2 mill is vital for other needs. And frankly this possibly Ed trying for a big deal with the Texans, cashing in a favor of Andre Johnson to take a run at joining our team at the same time. Two birds with one stone. After this, our front office should tell AJ to stop the twitter invitations to his pals out there (psssst! It doesn't work out well for us, Andre.).


Well, let's think about this. It's not my money, so I really don't care. Aj is saying he is willing to restructure, so more or less, it's his money. If he is saying he will restructure his contract so they can bring Ed Reed in...... Let's say Andre restructures to clear another $10M over 2 years... that's Reed, plus $3M/yr for the next two.

I'm not saying I want to pay him $7M. I really don't care how much they pay. But like Quin & Barwin, sometimes it just has to "sound" like $7M/yr. Throw Flacco in there too.

We could sign him to a 3yr $21M contract ($7M/yr) But guarantee him $8M over the next two years plus incentives.

ASidd_1990
03-15-2013, 08:15 PM
Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
On Ed Reed, his plan is to be patient with this, as much as he can be ... No plans to visit anyone else at this point, but that could change

paycheck71
03-15-2013, 08:16 PM
Well, let's think about this. It's not my money, so I really don't care. Aj is saying he is willing to restructure, so more or less, it's his money. If he is saying he will restructure his contract so they can bring Ed Reed in...... Let's say Andre restructures to clear another $10M over 2 years... that's Reed, plus $3M/yr for the next two.



Well, restructuring really isn't the same thing as taking a pay cut. Any player is willing to restructure because it's putting more money in his pocket now, and potentially guaranteeing future unguaranteed salary. So, AJ really isn't sacrificing anything by restructuring.

If the Texans FO thinks that ER is the kind of piece that puts them over the top and helps them be a real contender, then they'll restructure someone and will pay him his 7MM. If not, then they won't. It might be an indication of what they really think the position that this team is in.

djohn2oo8
03-15-2013, 08:23 PM
It would be awesome if they could start making championship type moves, but that would be too much to ask.

Texan_Bill
03-15-2013, 08:33 PM
This is me in real life... sporting the Ninja facepaint and ready to pull out my sword.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/603365_10100877719859536_440784413_n.jpg

:thinking: I know a few people in the background, but up with that crazy sumbitch in the fore?? ;)

Texan_Bill
03-15-2013, 08:35 PM
I said it like 29 pages ago, we got Leigh Bodden'd.... but too a much worse degree.

Grams
03-15-2013, 08:38 PM
And if Reed agrees? Don't give us an excuse to point out how silly you are before anything is settled.

If Reed signs, he signs. If he doesn't, we'll find somebody else. The defeatism and misplaced anger here on this forum over this is hilarious.

Chill, this is the off season, it can get really weird here at times.

The Third Man
03-15-2013, 08:39 PM
Ed Reed leaving Reliant Stadium without a signed contract just shows that the Texans ARE NOT committed to bringing a Super Bowl trophy to Houston. Boo to Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak. We are in cap trouble, have more holes than we had at the end of the season and Schaub is going to be here for the next couple of years.

The Texans signing a 35 year old safety to a 7 million a year contract would indicate the FO is brain dead. You did read that Ed Reed wanted a bigger contract, right? Boo to you for being such a reactionary, low-information fan.

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 08:45 PM
I said it like 29 pages ago, we got Leigh Bodden'd.... but too a much worse degree.

I dunno TB ..... He could still end up signing here for that ~5m if the market dries up. And the way teams are spending , his idea of being patient is working against him.

But damn , I dunno what the hell Rick Smith is thinking here .... He could have had Quin for less money and at this point in their respective careers , Quin is probably the better player.

Playoffs
03-15-2013, 08:46 PM
Not news:

There's a bit of drama that circles Ed Reed. Not unusual for him to take his time, stretch things out. He was eternally unhappy with his being http://www.modacity.net/forums/styles/smilies/emot-airquote.gifdisrespected by the Ravens organization all last offseason. Lot's of "Will he or won't he?" media. Yada, yada, yada.

However it works out will be fine.

badboy
03-15-2013, 08:52 PM
Jonathan Joseph CB1 $7.5 m
Matt Schaub QB $ 7.25 m
Arian Foster RB 1 $5.25 m

Reed needs to get no more than Foster.

ObsiWan
03-15-2013, 09:06 PM
He made the Packers HOF. Kind of like their ring of honor. He'll never sniff the main HOF.

No problem. I honestly had never heard of the guy. Then I seldom listen to 790 nor am I a big Packer fan. So he's no one that I was familiar with.

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 09:08 PM
Arian Foster RB 1 $5.25 m

Reed needs to get no more than Foster.

Arian's cap is $8.25 mil this season.

Texan_Bill
03-15-2013, 09:24 PM
I dunno TB ..... He could still end up signing here for that ~5m if the market dries up. And the way teams are spending , his idea of being patient is working against him.

But damn , I dunno what the hell Rick Smith is thinking here .... He could have had Quin for less money and at this point in their respective careers , Quin is probably the better player.

Hey bro.... I'm a Houston fan, i.e. I expect the worse. How Houston doesn't have a higher suicide rate than Seattle is beyond me...

BTW bro, give me a call. It's been too long my friend.

ObsiWan
03-15-2013, 09:25 PM
http://packershalloffame.com/hall-of-famers/
****************************
He's not in Canton, but he's a member of the Packers HOF.
Now for the second time, what the hell is a ObsiWan ?

Its a username. Not unlike IDEXAN.
And, as I said, I follow the Texans, not the Packers, so I didn't know the guy.

badboy
03-15-2013, 09:36 PM
Arian's cap is $8.25 mil this season.The discussion on Reed was what he allegedly wanted in a contract $7 m and what Houston offered at $5 m in a contract. We would not know what Reed's cap would be until we know how contract is designed ie bonus. That is why I posted base salary in flow of the thread rather than cap as that was what is being discussed. Your figure on Foster's cap is correct.

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 09:41 PM
The discussion on Reed was what he allegedly wanted in a contract $7 m and what Houston offered at $5 m in a contract. We would not know what Reed's cap would be until we know how contract is designed ie bonus. That is why I posted base salary in flow of the thread rather than cap as that was what is being discussed. Your figure on Foster's cap is correct.

Saying flow of the thread doesn't change the fact Foster is effectively getting paid more than $5.25 mil this year. Average over the life of the contract and average cap hit are the same and are not average base salary.

SW H-TOWN
03-15-2013, 09:43 PM
The name of this thread should be changed to Ed Reed visits Texans, does not agree to terms, and then gets out of town fast under the false pretext that he does not want to deal with Pitbull fans. The last part cracks me up, what a horrible excuse.

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 09:51 PM
So I guess the Niners are incompetent boobs just being played because they didn't get a deal done with Woodson. Some of y'all really need to chill.

Nawzer
03-15-2013, 09:55 PM
Safety isn't even the biggest hole on this defense, but ILB is. Now that Brooks Reed is staying outside, who do we have lining up next to Cushing? Is Cushing going to be 100% ever? I think it's foolish if the Texans are counting on Cushing to take most of the snaps on defense. It's a prescription for another injury. We also don't have a starter on nose tackle, there's the obvious need at receiver and tight end. Then there's the matter of filling up the roster with quality backup players that we've lost so far.

Texn4life
03-15-2013, 10:07 PM
So I guess the Niners are incompetent boobs just being played because they didn't get a deal done with Woodson. Some of y'all really need to chill.

My friends have been calling me bitching the past 2 days. I'm like dude you do realize its the beginning of free agency right? I don't understand the overreaction.

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 10:09 PM
Safety isn't even the biggest hole on this defense, but ILB is. Now that Brooks Reed is staying outside, who do we have lining up next to Cushing? Is Cushing going to be 100% ever? I think it's foolish if the Texans are counting on Cushing to take most of the snaps on defense. It's a prescription for another injury. We also don't have a starter on nose tackle, there's the obvious need at receiver and tight end. Then there's the matter of filling up the roster with quality backup players that we've lost so far.

I dont really agree with that .... The other ILB next to Cushing wasnt as talented as Quin. James , Dobbins , Ruud .... were servicable players nothing more and were only asked to play 1-2 downs. Quin was a three down player and very versatile being able to essentially step into the box playing a LBer spot.

With Cushing out .... yeah , ILB is a bigger need but with him you can get away with a journeyman type there.

Nawzer
03-15-2013, 10:17 PM
I dont really agree with that .... The other ILB next to Cushing wasnt as talented as Quin. James , Dobbins , Ruud .... were servicable players nothing more and were only asked to play 1-2 downs. Quin was a three down player and very versatile being able to essentially step into the box playing a LBer spot.

With Cushing out .... yeah , ILB is a bigger need but with him you can get away with a journeyman type there.

I don't want another journeyman type again. Bradie James was **** last year and Dobbins was decent against the run. I'm of the opinion that they not only need 1 but 2 good ILBs now. You can never have enough linebackers for this defense and when your #1 guy is coming off an acl, it's imperative to have a good group of guys behind him. The safety position is a hole now and it is a big hole, but if you don't have a good front 7 then it doesn't matter who you have back there, you're going to get burned for big plays consistently.

badboy
03-15-2013, 10:17 PM
Saying flow of the thread doesn't change the fact Foster is effectively getting paid more than $5.25 mil this year. Average over the life of the contract and average cap hit are the same and are not average base salary.Foster is not getting paid more than $5.25 m that is it. He might earn $500,000 in "other bonus". We had this same type conversation on another thread where you jump to what you want to talk about rather than what is being talked about by posters. His 2013 cap is $8.25 m and his average over life of contract is $8.7 m so you are wrong there also.

A player is only interested in his dollars in a new contract not what his cap may be. As long as he gets what he wants the team can arrange it anyway they want to benefit team cap. Again what you don't want to get is we were talking salaries so I compared salaries of Texan players. If Reed or any other player is signed and we know complete specifics we can then compare cap numbers.

SW H-TOWN
03-15-2013, 10:27 PM
So I guess the Niners are incompetent boobs just being played because they didn't get a deal done with Woodson. Some of y'all really need to chill.

Rick Smith might not be Daryl Morey but at least he did not have to release one of our best players because he did not send the restructured contract paperwork to league offices on time. This is why Dumervil was released by the Broncos, what a massive fail. It is a little more complicated than that but what it boils down to is that the Broncos did not send Dumervil and his agent a copy of the revised restructured contract until 30 min. before it had to be turned into league offices, way too late. Dumervil and the Broncos had come to an agreement but now he could very well sign with another team. I just about fell out of my chair when I heard about this one, here is the link...http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/03/15/elvis-dumervils-agent-marty-magid-rips-broncos-over-contract-screwup/1991723/

badboy
03-15-2013, 10:27 PM
Safety isn't even the biggest hole on this defense, but ILB is. Now that Brooks Reed is staying outside, who do we have lining up next to Cushing? Is Cushing going to be 100% ever? I think it's foolish if the Texans are counting on Cushing to take most of the snaps on defense. It's a prescription for another injury. We also don't have a starter on nose tackle, there's the obvious need at receiver and tight end. Then there's the matter of filling up the roster with quality backup players that we've lost so far.
Not all agree with you on ILB. I think WR2 and NT with the former extending both AJ and Matt's careers. A solid NT can reduced the need or at least the quality of ILB such that a later round pick like my guy AJ Klein could succeed in that D. Having said this, with a similar situation last off season in a starting OLB (Mario) leaving in free agency and Barwin & Reed starting what position was drafted #1? Same scenario...same pick? Especially with all the so call starting WR waiting for us in second round?

powda
03-15-2013, 10:27 PM
I don't want another journeyman type again. Bradie James was **** last year and Dobbins was decent against the run. I'm of the opinion that they not only need 1 but 2 good ILBs now. You can never have enough linebackers for this defense and when your #1 guy is coming off an acl, it's imperative to have a good group of guys behind him. The safety position is a hole now and it is a big hole, but if you don't have a good front 7 then it doesn't matter who you have back there, you're going to get burned for big plays consistently.

Dont forget we play a LOT of 3 safety sets. I thought we needed another one before we lost quin. If they played the package today our starters would be manning, keo, and demps?

Don't overreact to that opinion though, because I'd expect us to draft an olb and an ilb as well.

Ya know, this side of free agency sucks. It used to feel like christmas because we thought we were getting better. Now its just turd cheerios.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:31 PM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....

Nawzer
03-15-2013, 10:34 PM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....

Yeah there's no way we're filling all those holes in one off season. And yes as of today it looks like we are screwed. But hey, it's not my job that's on the line. If I'm McNair I'm probably not really happy right now with what's been happening over the last few days.

G27RR
03-15-2013, 10:38 PM
So I guess the Niners are incompetent boobs just being played because they didn't get a deal done with Woodson. Some of y'all really need to chill.


Word.

panamamyers
03-15-2013, 10:39 PM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....

Starting fullbacks are not that hard to come by. Don't need a starting nt, og, ot. We just need a starting inside linebacker, a #2 receiver and a safety.

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 10:39 PM
I don't want another journeyman type again. Bradie James was **** last year and Dobbins was decent against the run. I'm of the opinion that they not only need 1 but 2 good ILBs now. You can never have enough linebackers for this defense and when your #1 guy is coming off an acl, it's imperative to have a good group of guys behind him. The safety position is a hole now and it is a big hole, but if you don't have a good front 7 then it doesn't matter who you have back there, you're going to get burned for big plays consistently.

I dont disagree with the bottom line .... Just remembering all the piss poor safety play we saw before Quin and Manning and I think Quin is a much better player than any of the ILB's not named Cushing.

They lost at least one significant player at every level of the defense - Cody , Barwin , James , Dobbins and Quin.
Im really wondering how Smith pieces together this defense with such limited cap space.

I mentioned this in the Mock Draft section a while back .... But I could see them starting Earl Mitchell with Crick being his primary backup at the NT spot rather than spending significant money in FA or a premium draft choice on the NT spot ....

This is going to be a really interesting offseason ... and I could see them taking a big step back if Rick Smith doesnt figure out how to replace all the production lost to FA and cutting Walter. I dont know that they can spend significant money or draft choices on each position of need ....

This roster is full of holes right now on both sides of the ball.

Starting fullbacks are not that hard to come by. Don't need a starting nt, og, ot. We just need a starting inside linebacker, a #2 receiver and a safety.

They are woefully thin at OT right now ..... add to that Newton coming off of surgery and the need for an OT seems significant to me.


Games are won and lost in the trenches .....

rolyat93
03-15-2013, 10:40 PM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....

We have Klutz at FB.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:41 PM
Starting fullbacks are not that hard to come by. Don't need a starting nt, og, ot. We just need a starting inside linebacker, a #2 receiver and a safety.

hmmm newton coming off surgery,,,,well were you happy with the offensive line last season ???

Screw it i guess we just get a bunch of scrubs to fill all these spots like we did with the oline. We should be golden then :kitten:

badboy
03-15-2013, 10:42 PM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....No. Brooks can start RG and if healthy Newton is our starting RT. Mitchell has been rumored to be starting Nose ( I disagree). They signed Clutts for a reason at FB but Casey was just more in tuned with that position having played it. Clutts could be our starter; if not, a late round or UDFA could do job. We will see a lot of rookie play but that might not be so bad depending on whom we select. I still think we will be better in 2013.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:47 PM
We have Klutz at FB.

Oh the one who Kubiak wouldnt even play when we had 1 TE and 1 FB against the patriots haha. That one ?

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 10:50 PM
Foster is not getting paid more than $5.25 m that is it. He might earn $500,000 in "other bonus". We had this same type conversation on another thread where you jump to what you want to talk about rather than what is being talked about by posters. His 2013 cap is $8.25 m and his average over life of contract is $8.7 m so you are wrong there also.

Stick with the draft because you suck at apples to apples conversations on cap issues. Looking at Foster's base salary and comparing it to an average demand is asinine.

Fine, pay Reed $1 mil in salary and an $8 mil signing bonus with a 2nd year salary of $6 mil and his first year cap hit is under your specious $5.25 orange comparison.

As to your last sentence, do you truly not understand the difference between one year of a contract and average?

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 10:51 PM
hmmm newton coming off surgery,,,,well were you happy with the offensive line last season ???

Screw it i guess we just get a bunch of scrubs to fill all these spots like we did with the oline. We should be golden then :kitten:

Cak .... You play RT , TexanBill , You get Safety , DoubleBarrel can take Walters spot at WR , I'll play ILB and Dread can line up in Barwin's spot. We'll be just fine with a bunch of 40 somethings .... :swatter:

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:53 PM
Cak .... You play RT , TexanBill , You get Safety , I'll player ILB and Dread can line up in Barwin's spot. We'll be just fine with a bunch of 40 somethings .... :swatter:

Would prob work out about as well as its going to work out.

powda
03-15-2013, 10:53 PM
Cak .... You play RT , TexanBill , You get Safety , DoubleBarrel can take Walters spot at WR , I'll play ILB and Dread can line up in Barwin's spot. We'll be just fine with a bunch of 40 somethings .... :swatter:

I'll punt

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 10:54 PM
I'll punt

And we'll have Jen play the nose ....

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:55 PM
I'll take Kubiaks spot, i have played a lot of madden. Surely i can call some pass plays when we're losing. That right there would throw me in a class above him all together :)

False Start
03-15-2013, 10:56 PM
I just have a gut feeling, it aint happenin'. :kitten:

powda
03-15-2013, 10:56 PM
And we'll have Jen play the nose ....

Somebody dependable needs to manage challenges. Thats worth 1 win right there.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:57 PM
I just have a gut feeling, it aint happenin'. :kitten:

Ur Right Bill at safety would be a stretch :swatter:

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 10:57 PM
I'll take Kubiaks spot, i have played a lot of madden. Surely i can call some pass plays when we're losing. That right there would throw me in a class above him all together :)

You aint old enough for the position .... gotta be over 40!

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 10:58 PM
You aint old enough for the position .... gotta be over 40!

Yall get to be the players and the coaches, WTF. I guess i'll just host On Dem Ho's with Ellisunit

NitroGSXR
03-15-2013, 10:59 PM
You aint old enough for the position .... gotta be over 40!

Don't worry. He has a birth certificate from Hawai'i.

powda
03-15-2013, 11:02 PM
Yall get to be the players and the coaches, WTF. I guess i'll just host On Dem Ho's with Ellisunit

Ellis you get to beat the dog snot out of josh ennis and talk about the new team on the radio.

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 11:02 PM
Cak .... You play RT , TexanBill , You get Safety , DoubleBarrel can take Walters spot at WR , I'll play ILB and Dread can line up in Barwin's spot. We'll be just fine with a bunch of 40 somethings .... :swatter:

Dude, you have 50 lbs on me and at least a foot of wingspan. You get RT and I'm taking ILB.

Actually we should get Vinny at RT.

Don't worry. He has a birth certificate from Hawai'i.

For once someone has a humorous birther joke.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 11:03 PM
Ellis you get to beat the dog snot out of josh ennis and talk about the new team on the radio.

Better than washing yalls jock straps i suppose :overreact:

mussop
03-15-2013, 11:05 PM
Safety isn't even the biggest hole on this defense, but ILB is. Now that Brooks Reed is staying outside, who do we have lining up next to Cushing? Is Cushing going to be 100% ever? I think it's foolish if the Texans are counting on Cushing to take most of the snaps on defense. It's a prescription for another injury. We also don't have a starter on nose tackle
You have it backwards, NT is the biggest hole on defense. 68% of Opposing teams runs are between the two guards against our defense. Not having a NT that can change that is a prescription for getting both our inside LB's injured. We need someone there (NT) that can protect our LB's and force things outside.

That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 11:07 PM
You have it backwards, NT is the biggest hole on defense. 68% of Opposing teams runs are between the two guards against our defense. Not having a NT that can change that is a prescription for getting both our inside LB's injured. We need someone there (NT) that can protect our LB's and force things outside.

That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year.

And a occasional illegal chop block from behind right at the knee

bckey
03-15-2013, 11:08 PM
So I guess the Niners are incompetent boobs just being played because they didn't get a deal done with Woodson. Some of y'all really need to chill.

Come on Cak. The 49ers have made some decent aquisitions already.
Anquan Boldin and Glenn Dorsey.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 11:09 PM
Come on Cak. The 49ers have made some decent aquisitions already.
Anquan Boldin and Glenn Dorsey.

And we got Gardner the main man. When you make signing like that who else do you need :)

Corrosion
03-15-2013, 11:12 PM
Dude, you have 50 lbs on me and at least a foot of wingspan. You get RT and I'm taking ILB.

Actually we should get Vinny at RT.



For once someone has a humorous birther joke.

That was the irony of it all .... the smallest among us at NT (Jen) and You at RT.


Yeah Nitro that was funny ... But I like Powda's idea better for EU .... let him b!tchslap Josh around and talk about how bad it is to go from 12-4 to 8-8.

ObsiWan
03-15-2013, 11:20 PM
That was the irony of it all .... the smallest among us at NT (Jen) and You at RT.


Yeah Nitro that was funny ... But I like Powda's idea better for EU .... let him b!tchslap Josh around and talk about how bad it is to go from 12-4 to 8-8.

Oooh, I'll be a "starving, unpaid intern" if I get to slap Josh -whinyboy-Innis around.

Nawzer
03-15-2013, 11:21 PM
You have it backwards, NT is the biggest hole on defense. 68% of Opposing teams runs are between the two guards against our defense. Not having a NT that can change that is a prescription for getting both our inside LB's injured. We need someone there (NT) that can protect our LB's and force things outside.

That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year.

I can agree with that.

ObsiWan
03-15-2013, 11:25 PM
You have it backwards, NT is the biggest hole on defense. 68% of Opposing teams runs are between the two guards against our defense. Not having a NT that can change that is a prescription for getting both our inside LB's injured. We need someone there (NT) that can protect our LB's and force things outside.

That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year.

Speaking of NTs, why no buzz on F/A Cody?

infantrycak
03-15-2013, 11:25 PM
That was the irony of it all .... the smallest among us at NT (Jen) and You at RT.

Yeah but Jen is a French Bulldog, aka ankle biter. That's pretty much a cut block champion.

Brandon420tx
03-15-2013, 11:34 PM
I didn't really care if he signed one way or another. I will however balk if he's signed for anything over a 6 million average. I'm seriously ok with saving future cap room to resign our core players in the coming offseason

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 12:07 AM
I don't see Schaub's contract as a huge issue. They obviously felt confident that he's going to be their QB for at least 2 more years. There is no alternative to him at the moment (I like TJ, but I don't think he's the replacement). And he can be cut after 2013 season without any or much of a hit to the cap. So, what's the problem?

10.5 mil may not be much in your world. But in mine that's a whoooooole!!!! lot of $$$$$.

Texanmike02
03-16-2013, 12:18 AM
It could be worse. We could be denver.

Seriously though...Why not bring in dumerville? Before I gave reed 7 mil I would give it to dumerville and move brooks reed inside. Is merciless and dumerville too much of a liability on the outside?

Just occurred to me.

Mike

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

76Texan
03-16-2013, 12:20 AM
10.5 mil may not be much in your world. But in mine that's a whoooooole!!!! lot of $$$$$.

How much do you think a proven NFL QB cost?

How much do you think a QB that can carry a team cost?

Can you find one available?

76Texan
03-16-2013, 12:21 AM
It could be worse. We could be denver.

Seriously though...Why not bring in dumerville? Before I gave reed 7 mil I would give it to dumerville and move brooks reed inside. Is merciless and dumerville too much of a liability on the outside?

Just occurred to me.

Mike

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HDThe opponents now can run around the edges as well as up the middle, I would think.

76Texan
03-16-2013, 12:25 AM
So heres what we basically looking at

We need a starting

Safety
LB
#2 WR
FB
RT
RG
NT


Ok going off of that and that is not including the back ups and extra TE we appear to be "screwed"

To put it lightly we better hope all our picks pan out and even trade for mr irrelevant and hop he is the next Arian Foster type player. No sweat in Rick Smith we trust aye.....From what I heard, at least 5 of those positions can be upgrade easily, why worry? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

paycheck71
03-16-2013, 12:36 AM
10.5 mil may not be much in your world. But in mine that's a whoooooole!!!! lot of $$$$$.

Obviously 10MM in dead money isn't optimal, but that scenario would only happen if Schaub is cut and they're drafting his replacement. There's also 4MM in cap savings which is enough to pay a potential rookie QB, even a first rounder.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 01:28 AM
How much do you think a proven NFL QB cost?

How much do you think a QB that can carry a team cost?

Can you find one available?

All I know is Schaub is damaged goods and will never lead the Texans to a championship. Remember I was a Schaub guy who still likes Schaub as a person/leader. I've got my doubts that Schaub will make it through next season.

Unfortunately the Texans need to draft and develop the next guy to try to lead them to a championship. Bray would be my guy. How do you feel about Keenum possibly being the Guy?

ASidd_1990
03-16-2013, 01:46 AM
So when will we find out if this bloke has signed with us or not?

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 01:54 AM
From what I heard, at least 5 of those positions can be upgrade easily, why worry? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oh yeah of course people on these message boards have all the solutions haha. Why in the hell am i worried :overreact:

Brisco_County
03-16-2013, 01:56 AM
Cak .... You play RT , TexanBill , You get Safety , DoubleBarrel can take Walters spot at WR , I'll play ILB and Dread can line up in Barwin's spot. We'll be just fine with a bunch of 40 somethings .... :swatter:

I go to refill my bourbon and this is what I come back to. Oh well, I nominate Hookem as a Chris Myers replacement.

Nawzer
03-16-2013, 01:57 AM
So when will we find out if this bloke has signed with us or not?

Why don't you ask your source. He's been spot on so far.:kitten:

Brisco_County
03-16-2013, 01:58 AM
Why don't you ask your source. He's been spot on so far.:kitten:

Bulls on Parade?

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 02:00 AM
Bulls on Parade?

yeah where has he been ? I guess after making that bold statment about what he does for aliving he decided better to not show up for a while.

Maybe he makes the coffee for all the big wigs with the texans and he didnt put enough creamer in the coffee for Reed and he said "what kind of circus are you guys running here, you call this coffee" and then he left. Damn you BOP

Corrosion
03-16-2013, 02:02 AM
Bulls on Parade?

No .... The one that told about a Matt Turk reunion that he provided no source to.

Most of us know to provide a link to source info .... Or dont post it.

Take it with a HUGE grain of salt but someone told me that there will be a reunion between Matt Turk and the Texans.

Don't shoot the messenger.

yeah where has he been ? I guess after making that bold statment about what he does for aliving he decided better to not show up for a while.

Maybe he makes the coffee for all the big wigs with the texans and he didnt put enough creamer in the coffee for Reed and he said "what kind of circus are you guys running here, you call this coffee" and then he left. Damn you BOP

Maybe BOP is ASidd_1990

Brisco_County
03-16-2013, 02:04 AM
No .... The one that told about a Matt Turk reunion that he provided no source to.

I stopped reading that post at "Matt Turk has a groupie."

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 02:05 AM
I stopped reading that post at "Matt Turk has a groupie."

How could you bare the thought of missing out on the excitment of the rest of the post ???? Mind boggling really

pec0sb0b
03-16-2013, 03:49 AM
So when will we find out if this bloke has signed with us or not?

When you hear later this weekend he's signed with San Francisco.:pissed:

Lurvinator11
03-16-2013, 04:14 AM
Well in that case, I guess I'll sleep like a kid on Christmas Eve.

Only problem is, when I wake up, will we have presents, or will we have Coal?

Looks like we got Coal!!!!

Alright, who was naughty?

thunderkyss
03-16-2013, 07:41 AM
All I know is Schaub is damaged goods and will never lead the Texans to a championship. Remember I was a Schaub guy who still likes Schaub as a person/leader. I've got my doubts that Schaub will make it through next season.


I've got no doubt Schaub will play as well next year as he did last year, which was on par for how he played through most of his career. Unfortunately, we need the Matt Schaub from 2009 & I don't think we'll ever see that guy again. Maybe if we get him a true weapon to go with Andre that not only stretches the field (like Jacoby) but demands coverage & respect (un-like Jacoby).

But I do wonder, if we had a Peyton Manning, or a Tom Brady, would Reed have left? Then again, Greg Jennings chose Christian Ponder over Aaron Rogers.

htowntexans1985
03-16-2013, 08:53 AM
I've got no doubt Schaub will play as well next year as he did last year, which was on par for how he played through most of his career. Unfortunately, we need the Matt Schaub from 2009 & I don't think we'll ever see that guy again. Maybe if we get him a true weapon to go with Andre that not only stretches the field (like Jacoby) but demands coverage & respect (un-like Jacoby).

But I do wonder, if we had a Peyton Manning, or a Tom Brady, would Reed have left? Then again, Greg Jennings chose Christian Ponder over Aaron Rogers.

Jennings and reed both have a ring. They're looking for the payday now.

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2013, 10:03 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the Texans are trying to low ball.......with heavy "incentives" to be built into the contract to cover a possible downturn in production or injury in these, his later playing years........just a thought as to why there may be such a lag in trying to sign him.

Ktexan68
03-16-2013, 10:06 AM
I agree with you but we won't sign him using that strategy and that might be a good thing.

GP
03-16-2013, 10:14 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the Texans are trying to low ball.......with heavy "incentives" to be built into the contract to cover a possible downturn in production or injury in these, his later playing years........just a thought as to why there may be such a lag in trying to sign him.

I've stated the same thing earlier on.

If we're at around 5 and he's at around 6 or even upwards of possibly 7...then I think it's reasonable, given his age and situation, to tell him we'll go 6 and he can earn an extra $500k per year IF we make the playoffs and IF he's played percentage of games and IF he's playing in the playoffs. The moment he finishes game 1 of the playoffs, he gets an extra $500k. Same thing in 2014.

I think that's fair. Welker got around 6, we're offering same deal with a potential for an extra $500k each season if things go the way it should. Ed knows we're capable of making the playoffs.

He wants to work out in Florida? Fine. Big damn deal. He's been doing it forever now. Makes him happy, then so be it.

Skip OTAs and take it easy in camp? Absolutely, Ed. Rest and read the playbook with your teammates during meetings.

This could still happen. I think AJ is trying all he can to get it done, so there's some good possibility that the front office might have had this as an ace up their sleeve if Team Reed rejected our lowest offer. What do you think?

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 10:55 AM
Not news:

There's a bit of drama that circles Ed Reed. Not unusual for him to take his time, stretch things out. He was eternally unhappy with his being http://www.modacity.net/forums/styles/smilies/emot-airquote.gifdisrespected by the Ravens organization all last offseason. Lot's of "Will he or won't he?" media. Yada, yada, yada.

However it works out will be fine.

A that 'disrespect' was self induced by Reed. He had a yar left on his contract, he talked about the Organization not 'honoring' the cntracts because they can cut a player at any tme; yet he was the one whining for a new deal when he had a year left- how about honoring your end of the bargain Ed?

He did and he got paid all this past year. Now he is free to go out and see what is available.

Caveat Emptor

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 11:17 AM
If that's the case, then the details of his contract has been grossly overstated.



$6.8 + $14.8 + $29 = $50.6M, but that's counting portions of the $29M bonus twice since some of it should already be built into his cap hits for the first two years.

The back end ofthe contract should be ignored- it will be re-structured after year 3 so it doesn't really count. Here are the total numbers forthe three years that count-

Year Salary Bonus Options Cap hit
2013 $1mill $5mill $0 $6.8mill

2014 $6mill $5.8mill $3mill $14.8mill

2015 $4mill $5.8mill $4.75mill $14.55mill

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 12:24 PM
Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora
Ownership from Texans, Ravens expect to meet with Ed Reed's agent at league mtg in AZ next week, Ravens coaches and officials have been...

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 12:25 PM
Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora

(Cont) Other teams still calling as well to inquire. Likely to come together at meetings. Ravens will make their push.

76Texan
03-16-2013, 12:27 PM
All I know is Schaub is damaged goods and will never lead the Texans to a championship. Remember I was a Schaub guy who still likes Schaub as a person/leader. I've got my doubts that Schaub will make it through next season.

Unfortunately the Texans need to draft and develop the next guy to try to lead them to a championship. Bray would be my guy. How do you feel about Keenum possibly being the Guy?

While Keenum's lack of height makes him a better fit in the shotgun, I believe he's smart enough to find the window to throw to from under center on quick throws and after taking his drop (with a defender coming quickly on a blitz or pushing the pocket hard - ie., one or two of our linemen lose too quickly).

The only real issue with him is to keep upright after taking some hits.
It helps that he has a very quick release (his old QB coach who also worked with Geno Smith and Weeden said that Keenum has the quickest release of the 3 - I guess I don't have to take those screen shots to prove it anymore) and he can read defense quickly so he does get the ball out very fast. That helped him avoiding some hits.

So yes, I think Keenum can be the guy.
Hey at least, Kubiak has a choice to bring him in when the team needs to go with the no huddle trying to play catch up.
That would find him in the shotgun more.
And Kubiak was very impressed with how he ran the no huddle last pre-season.

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 12:30 PM
Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora
Bottom line: Texans offer wasn't substantial enough to preclude Reed from leaving w/o signing. Door is still wide open for the Ravens

ChampionTexan
03-16-2013, 12:42 PM
The back end ofthe contract should be ignored- it will be re-structured after year 3 so it doesn't really count. Here are the total numbers forthe three years that count-

Year Salary Bonus Options Cap hit
2013 $1mill $5mill $0 $6.8mill

2014 $6mill $5.8mill $3mill $14.8mill

2015 $4mill $5.8mill $4.75mill $14.55mill

Yeah, but the problem for the Ravens is they'll have $25,850,000 in unamortized bonus/guaranteed money left on that contract after year three. That means that essentially they've given Flacco all of the leverage in negotiations (ie: cutting him means you take a $25.85 million cap hit instead of a $28.55 million in year 4).

You're not talking about the typical restructure, you're talking about an extension. If Joe decides to play hardball, he's got the Ravens by the short-hairs.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 12:57 PM
Wow, breezing through this thread and folks are actually back to talking about wanting Chad Johnson on this team? Lol!

That is literally about as dumb as asking Dennis Rodman to come play WR for the Texans at this point.

Geez, an athlete does a few reality shows and puts himself in front of the cameras and people lose all sight of what actually has to take place on the field. Chad Johnson hasn't done anything in like 4 years. Posts clamoring for Chad Johnson aren't even drunk thread worthy. :mariopalm:

houstonspartan
03-16-2013, 01:16 PM
Wow, breezing through this thread and folks are actually back to talking about wanting Chad Johnson on this team? Lol!

That is literally about as dumb as asking Dennis Rodman to come play WR for the Texans at this point.

Geez, an athlete does a few reality shows and puts himself in front of the cameras and people lose all sight of what actually has to take place on the field. Chad Johnson hasn't done anything in like 4 years. Posts clamoring for Chad Johnson aren't even drunk thread worthy. :mariopalm:

LOL. It's the offseason, the time of year when people lose their f-----g minds.

Regarding Ed Reed: Gotta admit that his people are playing their hand very well. They have several teams bidding on an aging Safety. Impressive.

paycheck71
03-16-2013, 01:34 PM
All I know is Schaub is damaged goods and will never lead the Texans to a championship.

I'll stop at this. You know nothing about it. Just like I don't, nor anyone on this board (unless someone from the Texans is reading and posting).

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 02:09 PM
LOL. It's the offseason, the time of year when people lose their f-----g minds.

Regarding Ed Reed: Gotta admit that his people are playing their hand very well. They have several teams bidding on an aging Safety. Impressive.

My first thought when I heard the news about Reed was that he was just using the Texans as leverage on other teams to pay more. Now, I'd love to be wrong about that and he might have some serious interest, but it just sort of came out of nowhere and I don't see Reed wanting to come here over the 49ers.

Why would an aging vet FS who already has a run now want to come play for the Texans over a team that has a way better HC then Kubiak and is the brother to his recent HC, has a better defense already, has a very good young QB that just played in the SB, and is probably the top contender in the NFC? Sorry, but I just don't see why Reed would rather be here.

76Texan
03-16-2013, 02:21 PM
My first thought when I heard the news about Reed was that he was just using the Texans as leverage on other teams to pay more. Now, I'd love to be wrong about that and he might have some serious interest, but it just sort of came out of nowhere and I don't see Reed wanting to come here over the 49ers.

Why would an aging vet FS who already has a run now want to come play for the Texans over a team that has a way better HC then Kubiak and is the brother to his recent HC, has a better defense already, has a very good young QB that just played in the SB, and is probably the top contender in the NFC? Sorry, but I just don't see why Reed would rather be here.

That defense is no longer the same, Tex.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 02:27 PM
That defense is no longer the same, Tex.

What defense? The Texans or the Niners?


The Texans defense is very much improved, but it fell off a lot last season towards the end of the year. They are not as good as the 49ers defense. Plus, the Niners have a much better HC then the Texans. Harbaugh could coach circles around Kubiak. If both teams are paying the same amount of money, why would Reed rather come here?? Does Reed think that Schaub can make the necessary plays to get this team to a SB in a post season run like what Flacco just did? I highly doubt he does.


It's just a realistic perspective as far as judging both situations objectively. Now if the Texans are paying quite a bit more then that is a different story, but I don't think the Texans have the kind of cap room to do that.

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 02:28 PM
What defense? The Texans or the Niners?


The Texans defense is very much improved, but it fell off a lot last season towards the end of the year. They are not as good as the 49ers defense. Plus, the Niners have a much better HC then the Texans. Harbaugh could coach circles around Kubiak. If both teams are paying the same amount of money, why would Reed rather come here?? Does Reed think that Schaub can make the necessary plays to get this team to a SB in a post season run like what Flacco just did? I highly doubt he does.


It's just a realistic perspective as far as judging both situations objectively. Now if the Texans are paying quite a bit more then that is a different story, but I don't think the Texans have the kind of cap room to do that.

I think the only reason he would come here for the same amount of money is because of Dre.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 02:34 PM
I think the only reason he would come here for the same amount of money is because of Dre.

What?? Are they dating or something?? Why the hell would Reed give a damn about playing with Dre? When has it ever been acknowledged that these guys are best friends or blood brothers? Andre is one of like 8 other high level WR's, and Dre is on his last legs. Sorry, but players around the league could care less about being on some team just because Andre Johnson is there. The reality is that Andre Johnson is a guy who has only played in 4 post season games in like 10 years. He isn't exactly some post season legend or anything. And why would some safety skip over to some other team just because a guy on the other side of the ball is there??? WHy would that tempt him? Is that somehow going to up Reed's game at this stage of his career?

Sorry, but I don't follow this logic at all unless you know something about them being some sort of item or something.

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 02:39 PM
What?? Are they dating or something?? Why the hell would Reed give a damn about playing with Dre? When has it ever been acknowledged that these guys are best friends or blood brothers? Andre is one of like 8 other high level WR's, and Dre is on his last legs. Sorry, but players around the league could care less about being on some team just because Andre Johnson is there. The reality is that Andre Johnson is a guy who has only played in 4 post season games in like 10 years. He isn't exactly some post season legend or anything. And why would some safety skip over to some other team just because a guy on the other side of the ball is there??? WHy would that tempt him? Is that somehow going to up Reed's game at this stage of his career?

Sorry, but I don't follow this logic at all unless you know something about them being some sort of item or something.

Ummmmmm they have both stated they are very good friends and have been since there college days. Hence the reason them two and Chris Myers went to dinner his first night in town.

And they all played at the U together

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 02:45 PM
Ummmmmm they have both stated they are very good friends and have been since there college days. Hence the reason them two and Chris Myers went to dinner his first night in town.

And they all played at the U together

So why didn't Reed and every other Cane come here over the last 10 years then? Sorry, but I haven't seen Canes lining up to sign here just because AJ plays here. If you were talking about some QB that was on the move like Peydon was last season that would make some sense since every QB needs a high level WR to be successful typically or at least that's the idea. That would matter some. But an aging Safety??? Sorry, but safeties don't move to other teams just because some WR is there.

And I'm pretty sure the 49ers have a few Canes on there team as well. Frank Gore played on that same team that AJ did or was a year or two after that. And I highly doubt that Reed's interests at going to the 49ers have anything to do with some RB that played for the U.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 02:47 PM
I've stated the same thing earlier on.

If we're at around 5 and he's at around 6 or even upwards of possibly 7...then I think it's reasonable, given his age and situation, to tell him we'll go 6 and he can earn an extra $500k per year IF we make the playoffs and IF he's played percentage of games and IF he's playing in the playoffs. The moment he finishes game 1 of the playoffs, he gets an extra $500k. Same thing in 2014.

I think that's fair. Welker got around 6, we're offering same deal with a potential for an extra $500k each season if things go the way it should. Ed knows we're capable of making the playoffs.

He wants to work out in Florida? Fine. Big damn deal. He's been doing it forever now. Makes him happy, then so be it.

Skip OTAs and take it easy in camp? Absolutely, Ed. Rest and read the playbook with your teammates during meetings.

This could still happen. I think AJ is trying all he can to get it done, so there's some good possibility that the front office might have had this as an ace up their sleeve if Team Reed rejected our lowest offer. What do you think?

I think that Rick probably offered 5.5-6 and Reed wanted 6-6.5 mil. Andre offered to restructure to make up the difference. Which Rick should've already asked AJ to do before Reed visited. If the retructure had been done beforehand Reed would probably be a Texan now. It will be Monday or Tuesday before AJ's restructure and Reeds signing paperwork are done. This is called not having your ducks in a row.

Unfortunately this gives teams like the 49ers or Pats 3-4 days to swoop in and sign Reed.

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 02:51 PM
So why didn't Reed and every other Cane come here over the last 10 years then? Sorry, but I haven't seen Canes lining up to sign here just because AJ plays here. If you were talking about some QB that was on the move like Peydon was last season that would make some sense since every QB needs a high level WR to be successful typically or at least that's the idea. That would matter some. But an aging Safety??? Sorry, but safeties don't move to other teams just because some WR is there.

And I'm pretty sure the 49ers have a few Canes on there team as well. Frank Gore played on that same team that AJ did or was a year or two after that. And I highly doubt that Reed's interests at going to the 49ers have anything to do with some RB that played for the U.

Dude your taking everything out of context. AJ was the one recruiting Reed pretty hard, i dont know how close they are as friends all i am doing is stating that AJ and reed went to the same college, they both claim they are close friends.

I'm sure reed has closer friends than others and i doubt all players that played at the U with him are all equal friends. I dont know either one of them perosnally just stating what the two of them have said. If you feel they are lying then you are arguing with the wrong person you need to talk to reed and AJ about that.

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 03:06 PM
Yeah, but the problem for the Ravens is they'll have $25,850,000 in unamortized bonus/guaranteed money left on that contract after year three. That means that essentially they've given Flacco all of the leverage in negotiations (ie: cutting him means you take a $25.85 million cap hit instead of a $28.55 million in year 4).

You're not talking about the typical restructure, you're talking about an extension. If Joe decides to play hardball, he's got the Ravens by the short-hairs.

I am not a capologist but Islept in a Holiday Inn last night...LOL

Serious question: how does Joe have all the leverage now?

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 03:11 PM
I'll stop at this. You know nothing about it. Just like I don't, nor anyone on this board (unless someone from the Texans is reading and posting).

This is my opinion after much reading and talking with multiple medical professionals on this subject. Including one of the top orhtopedic surgeons in the country. (Thanks Dr G/CND etc...)

Carry on

handswarmer
03-16-2013, 03:11 PM
Does Reed think that Schaub can make the necessary plays to get this team to a SB in a post season run like what Flacco just did? I highly doubt he does.


After the win over the Texans in last years Playoffs, Ed questioned Flacco's ability in the press.

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 03:13 PM
And I'm pretty sure the 49ers have a few Canes on there team as well. Frank Gore played on that same team that AJ did or was a year or two after that. And I highly doubt that Reed's interests at going to the 49ers have anything to do with some RB that played for the U.

Reed specifically mentioned wanting to play with three former Canes - AJ, Gore or Wayne. The Colts and Niners have both already signed safeties. By reports he is closest to AJ of the three anyway and has flown down here are several occasions to see AJ. I sincerely doubt Reed shares your assessment that AJ is on his last legs either. In fact, I would bet all the DB's AJ torched for 1598 yds last season would think people claiming AJ is done are in lala land.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 03:16 PM
After the win over the Texans in last years Playoffs, Ed questioned Flacco's ability in the press.

I doubt he is still questioning Flacco's abilities now.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 03:23 PM
Reed specifically mentioned wanting to play with three former Canes - AJ, Gore or Wayne. The Colts and Niners have both already signed safeties. By reports he is closest to AJ of the three anyway and has flown down here are several occasions to see AJ. I sincerely doubt Reed shares your assessment that AJ is on his last legs either. In fact, I would bet all the DB's AJ torched for 1598 yds last season would think people claiming AJ is done are in lala land.

If Reed is on his last legs as much as AJ is, then Reed deserves 7 mil atleast.

Sign Reed Rick.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 03:24 PM
Reed specifically mentioned wanting to play with three former Canes - AJ, Gore or Wayne. The Colts and Niners have both already signed safeties. By reports he is closest to AJ of the three anyway and has flown down here are several occasions to see AJ. I sincerely doubt Reed shares your assessment that AJ is on his last legs either. In fact, I would bet all the DB's AJ torched for 1598 yds last season would think people claiming AJ is done are in lala land.

Dude, he isn't about to come here just because AJ is here. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Sure they may be really good friends and I've heard them say that and all that jizz. I've heard several other players from Miami say the same thing about how great it would be to come play with AJ many times. Yet, none of these guys go out of their way to come here. It's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, I had a buddy that came and interviewed at my company about a year ago. He said he really didn't want to work there, but he'd love to work at the same company as me. He got offered the job, but still didn't take it, because he had other options that were a little better and the money wasn't better. As much as we both wanted to work together, he wasn't about to take a position here when it wasn't an upgrade or a better situation for him.

At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.

A. More money and a bigger pay day.
B. One last good shot at a ring.

Now option A probably isn't going to fit because I don't think the Texans are going to pay him significantly more then what he will be offered by other teams. Even if they wanted to, I don't think they can.

And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here. It's a good team to go to and all, but with other teams like the Niners being involved and going after him, I don't see why he would rather come here. Andre Johnson may be his buddy, but players don't go to other teams just because they have some college buddy over there when they have better opportunities.

If this AJ friendship was such a factor, he would have already signed and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

amazing80
03-16-2013, 03:49 PM
Dude, he isn't about to come here just because AJ is here. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Sure they may be really good friends and I've heard them say that and all that jizz. I've heard several other players from Miami say the same thing about how great it would be to come play with AJ many times. Yet, none of these guys go out of their way to come here. It's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, I had a buddy that came and interviewed at my company about a year ago. He said he really didn't want to work there, but he'd love to work at the same company as me. He got offered the job, but still didn't take it, because he had other options that were a little better and the money wasn't better. As much as we both wanted to work together, he wasn't about to take a position here when it wasn't an upgrade or a better situation for him.

At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.

A. More money and a bigger pay day.
B. One last good shot at a ring.

Now option A probably isn't going to fit because I don't think the Texans are going to pay him significantly more then what he will be offered by other teams. Even if they wanted to, I don't think they can.

And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here. It's a good team to go to and all, but with other teams like the Niners being involved and going after him, I don't see why he would rather come here. Andre Johnson may be his buddy, but players don't go to other teams just because they have some college buddy over there when they have better opportunities.

If this AJ friendship was such a factor, he would have already signed and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Niners dropped out and Colts are less contenders than we are. Id even put Baltimore behind us with all their departures. Were HIS best option.

amazing80
03-16-2013, 03:52 PM
If only you knew what I do you'd jump for joy right now. I'll just say that I hope you like Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard and Eric Winston. There's going to be a trifecta signing going down tomorrow. I think the Texans are positioning themselves nicely well before the draft. Enjoy the evening guys. Let's call it a Friday of champions here in Houston!

How dumb do you feel? Insert foot in mouth LMAO, that will teach you to "predict" things.

GP
03-16-2013, 03:57 PM
I'm amazed at people's thinking.

Why the crap would you offer Ed Reed a larger amount right out of the gate and immediately restructure AJ's deal when Ed was just visiting??? WHY?!?!?!

This is so freaking simple, if you'll let it be simple! LOL.

What if by a stroke of luck Ed waltzes in and his advisors are good with $5.5? Shazaam! AJ doesn't have to re-structure for Ed's deal...which means he can re-structure for another FA if we need him to.

Why does everyone assume AJ and the FO were supposed to have all this done in advance of Reed's visit? It's like people are inventing ways to blame everyone for not satisfying their whims.

How about some old-fashioned patience and measured negotiations.

Do you think Ed Reed would've wanted AJ, his friend, to do all that ahead of time anyways? That'd be awkward.

Want to have a contingency plan in place ahead of time? Great. But even then, do you want AJ feeling tempted to send a quick text to Ed saying how he's got the green light to ask for $6 or $7 since AJ would know the Texans plans to tackle a re-structure if Ed leaves without a Texans' $5.5 initial deal?

The idea to have everything with AJ worked out ahead of time or even discussed with AJ ahead of time is flawed from a realistic standpoint.

You make your lowest offer you can, you receive a counter-offer, THEN you work out behind the scenes if you want to re-work ANYTHING to get it signed.

This is why many people should never attempt to run business operations in real life. You'd get fleeced.

tru80texan
03-16-2013, 03:58 PM
Niners dropped out and Colts are less contenders than we are. Id even put Baltimore behind us with all their departures. Were HIS best option.

I think you are underestimating the Colts a bit. They have added some decent pieces after winning 11 games, which was only 1 behind the Texans. That being said, based on the moves thus far the Colts could easily make a run at the division this season if the Texans don't improve at some of the positions where players were lost this offseason. Assuming the Colts are not contenders & the Texans are seems a bit shortsighted based on the current state of each team imo.

amazing80
03-16-2013, 04:02 PM
I think you are underestimating the Colts a bit. They have added some decent pieces after winning 11 games, which was only 1 behind the Texans. That being said, based on the moves thus far the Colts could easily make a run at the division this season if the Texans don't improve at some of the positions where players were lost this offseason. Assuming the Colts are not contenders & the Texans are seems a bit shortsighted based on the current state of each team imo.

Nope, Colts were lucky and rode an emotional high, they were severely outscored by opponents last season. It was a fluke. They will be at BEST 8-8 next season.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 04:09 PM
I'm amazed at people's thinking.

Why the crap would you offer Ed Reed a larger amount right out of the gate and immediately restructure AJ's deal when Ed was just visiting??? WHY?!?!?!

This is so freaking simple, if you'll let it be simple! LOL.

What if by a stroke of luck Ed waltzes in and his advisors are good with $5.5? Shazaam! AJ doesn't have to re-structure for Ed's deal...which means he can re-structure for another FA if we need him to.

Why does everyone assume AJ and the FO were supposed to have all this done in advance of Reed's visit? It's like people are inventing ways to blame everyone for not satisfying their whims.

How about some old-fashioned patience and measured negotiations.

Do you think Ed Reed would've wanted AJ, his friend, to do all that ahead of time anyways? That'd be awkward.

Want to have a contingency plan in place ahead of time? Great. But even then, do you want AJ feeling tempted to send a quick text to Ed saying how he's got the green light to ask for $6 or $7 since AJ would know the Texans plans to tackle a re-structure if Ed leaves without a Texans' $5.5 initial deal?

The idea to have everything with AJ worked out ahead of time or even discussed with AJ ahead of time is flawed from a realistic standpoint.

You make your lowest offer you can, you receive a counter-offer, THEN you work out behind the scenes if you want to re-work ANYTHING to get it signed.

This is why many people should never attempt to run business operations in real life. You'd get fleeced.

I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 04:12 PM
At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.

People, including football players, particularly those who are multi-millionaires who have already achieved the pinnacle of their sport do things for all sorts of reasons.

And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here.

I doubt AJ and Reed share your assessment of Schaub. AJ has had several opportunities to bail and hasn't. Reed has watched Schaub bring the Texans back from down 21 pts to tie the Ravens and watched the Texans shellack the Ravens in their SB year with Schaub at the helm. I seriously doubt he holds the opinion Schaub can't get the job done.

I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.

Low balling no, but take it or leave it rarely works as an initial bid either. It's one thing when you are hiring a secretary and another when you are talking about matters like this. The Texans had talked numbers with Reed before he flew down here so he was comfortable with the ballpark being discussed and so were they.

tru80texan
03-16-2013, 04:12 PM
Nope, Colts were lucky and rode an emotional high, they were severely outscored by opponents last season. It was a fluke. They will be at BEST 8-8 next season.

That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.

thunderkyss
03-16-2013, 04:53 PM
The back end ofthe contract should be ignored- it will be re-structured after year 3 so it doesn't really count. Here are the total numbers forthe three years that count-

Year Salary Bonus Options Cap hit
2013 $1mill $5mill $0 $6.8mill

2014 $6mill $5.8mill $3mill $14.8mill

2015 $4mill $5.8mill $4.75mill $14.55mill

I understand that. But the last three years are used to calculate his cap hit. Unless you're dividing $29M by 3 & not 6.

But they are taking his cap numbers adding them to the whole bonus & saying he will earn that $51M in two years, $62M in three years.

They're counting part of his bonus twice. They need to separate the prorated amount from his cap number to get his "salary" then add that to the $29M & they can say he will have been compensated, whatever.

If the $51M (in the first two years) & the $62M (in the first three years)
numbers are right, then those cap numbers can't be right.

greekdbag
03-16-2013, 05:02 PM
That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.

Erik Walden? Greg Toler? Gosder Cherilus? We're supposed to be shaking in our boots? Seriously? LaRon Landry is the only decent FA they signed and he isn't even that great in pass coverage. He is also injury prone.

Scored 357 points (22.3/g), 18th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 387 points (24.2/g), 21st.
Differential of -30 points (-1.9/g), 21st.
Expected W-L: 7.2-8.8.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2012.htm

Luck also had a 76 qb rating last year. Wilson and RG3 were a good deal better than him as rookies. Do I think he will improve? Yes, without a doubt. But he is not a world beater yet.

Furthermore, Texans were not much of a fluke last year.

Scored 416 points (26.0/g), 8th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 331 points (20.7/g), 9th.
Differential of 85 points (5.3/g), 8th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2012.htm

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 05:19 PM
Ed Reed to me at least, seems to like the drama a bit. Last year for instance the guy retired and unretired didnt he? or at least he was making the insinuation that he was. Fast forward and I cant be too surprised at the outcome thus far. Im wondereing how much 'recruitment' ability Reed has and if he would be trying to get any other guys interested in coming here for one last hurrah. If Reggie Wayne was available I think it would be interesting.

I think he will sign, when enough suspense has been built up, plus didnt he tweet (jokingly im sure) that he would make the decision 'ala Lebron'?

bhsman
03-16-2013, 05:41 PM
The Niners signed another safety, so at the least they might be out of the running.

ChampionTexan
03-16-2013, 06:15 PM
I am not a capologist but Islept in a Holiday Inn last night...LOL

Serious question: how does Joe have all the leverage now?

Because at the end of three years, Baltimore will very much want to avoid the $28+ Million cap hit that comes in year four (and they can't afford to cut him). Joe is free to either ask for ridiculous money for extending, or very happily continue on with the contract and the $18 Million he's scheduled to collect in 2016.

And if I'm wrong, and the Ravens do decide they can afford the $25+ million in dead money that results from cutting him, then I'm guessing Joe will be okay taking the $62 Million he's gotten over the past three seasons and seeing what the market is for a quarterback who's still pretty comfortably in his prime.

klockWork
03-16-2013, 07:00 PM
The determining factor for Ed Reed to play here are as follows:
How he view the city of Houston.
How the city view him?
Is it livable for him and his family?
How will the fans embrace him?
What does the local media thinks?
Is his presence marketable in this town?

Too many factors other than a little more money, playing with Dre, and another SB run.

And the reason he left town w/o signing is pure curiosity. The man simply wants to know how much desirability he has left from other teams and cities. How long will the red carpet rolled out from his feet? How long can he smoke that victory cigar before he coughs? This is his extended post Super Bowl celebration. Let the man enjoy his moments.

Vanity. Definitely my favorite sins.

GP
03-16-2013, 07:03 PM
I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.

Texans have fixed income, steelbtexan. It's called a CAP. It's fixed. Go over it, you pay a penalty (ask Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder).

To work within the cap, the front office must account for a crazy amount of things that may or may not happen.

It's not Low-balling, as you say, to offer what you WANT to pay a player. You're making an evaluation and your offer reflects several things: (1a) What you'd like to pay, (1b) what you'll pay because you are flush with tons of cash to spend and have to get rid of it due to new CBA rules, (2) what you cannot pay no matter what, (3) what you cannot pay unless you reorganize other expenses (re-structuring contracts) (4) what the player is worth on the market given many variables, and (5) incentives you think you can offer that other potential teams cannot offer to that same player. That's just 5, but I bet there's 200 more I'm not thinking of.

On the flip side, the player has his own evaluation of the process. (1) What am I worth?, (2) What could I get anywhere else in the NFL?, (3) Would this potential employer I'm meeting with be a good place to put my efforts into?, and about 200 other things that are probably more important than that.

So look, these two sides had to come together. It's not like they meet once he gets off the plane, shake hands at Reliant, and walk into a room and sign a contract. That's what our fantasy situation would be: Dude arrives, dude is excited, dude signs...press conference at 3 p.m. that day! That's what's going on with a lot of people's interpretation of the events. People have a problem in today's culture with WAITING. What are we, a Microwave Minute Society? This is what we've become in America: "Hey, I got a meal ready in under a minute here with my own microwave....why would it take 15 minutes for my pizza to arrive? That's horrible. I want my money back. You could have had it here in 12 minutes, easily." Bitching over 3 minutes. Complaining that things take too long. Demanding instant gratification.

Look, all in all you've got to realize that this isn't like signing a 3rd string OT named Andrew Gardner. The top of the crop takes longer to harvest, especially when you're up against the cap. Teams way under the cap? They can overpay and get a deal signed faster. This goes back to item 1b in my first list above.

Acting like we should have been prepared to pay Ed's supposed asking price, before he even arrived in Houston!, and that AJ should have had everything lined up with the front office before Ed's visit, I don't get it. Does anybody else think that way? Speak up. How can you, as a team in the NFL, go ahead and say "We'll pay you pay top dollar...just come down and put your name on this contract!"...I mean, why wouldn't you have the obligatory face-to-face meeting, get to know one another like they DID, by the way, and THEN discuss terms like everyone else does??? It's a negotiation, for pete's sake. It's a discussion, a meeting, and then things continue onward or they don't.

So now there's wind of AJ maybe reaching out and saying he'll do what it takes to get Ed Reed here. Had that all happened prior to the Ed Reed visit, Ed walks in and it's 100% guarantee that Ed gets every dime he wants. Hell, he might ask for MORE on top of what he was originally going to ask since he knows the original amount he had in mind is already there waiting for him via AJ's re-structure.

This is a business. Some teams dick around and treat it like Madden video game (i.e. Jerry and Daniel of the Cowboys and Redskins) flinging cash and throwing caution to the wind, contract structures and ramifications be damned! And some teams, like ours, are working within the cap and taking this thing slowly and methodically. At the end of the day, I just think people are too damn impatient about it all. It ought to happen and if it didn't happen then somebody in the FO is a boob. That's bad analysis.

Nawzer
03-16-2013, 07:07 PM
Patriots signed safety Adrian Wilson, so that's another potential player out of the Ed Reed sweepstakes? I like Wilson and he's one of the most underrated players in the NFL.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9057935/adrian-wilson-new-england-patriots-agree-deal-agent-confirms

bOODRO87
03-16-2013, 07:37 PM
That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.

Besides the Bengals, we definitely looked like a team that didn't belong in the playoffs settling for FGs and not scoring during an entire quarter.

This literally needs to be the best draft in our team's history with the way our off season is going. It wouldn't be a bold prediction at all to say the Colts could win the division.

Jules Winnfield
03-16-2013, 07:48 PM
Besides the Bengals, we definitely looked like a team that didn't belong in the playoffs settling for FGs and not scoring during an entire quarter.

This literally needs to be the best draft in our team's history with the way our off season is going. It wouldn't be a bold prediction at all to say the Colts could win the division.

the colts already have a huge advantage in winning the division due to the fact that they have the best quarterback in the division.

factor in all these player turnovers, the colts have a strong chance at winning the division.

In fact, i favor them to win based on how our offseason has gone.

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 07:48 PM
Besides the Bengals, we definitely looked like a team that didn't belong in the playoffs settling for FGs and not scoring during an entire quarter.

This literally needs to be the best draft in our team's history with the way our off season is going. It wouldn't be a bold prediction at all to say the Colts could win the division.

Oh it would be bold.... The colts were out scored last season, had an in godly amount of turnovers and then a lot of luck on their side. They still need a few more seasons, plus lets not crown luck after just 1 season !

Jules Winnfield
03-16-2013, 07:52 PM
Oh it would be bold.... The colts were out scored last season, had an in godly amount of turnovers and then a lot of luck on their side. They still need a few more seasons, plus lets not crown luck after just 1 season !

this is nfl parity era where one year turnarounds are the norm.

If rookie Luck got the colts to the playoffs, they are a lot closer to taking the division than you think.

EllisUnit
03-16-2013, 07:57 PM
this is nfl parity era where one year turnarounds are the norm.

If rookie Luck got the colts to the playoffs, they are a lot closer to taking the division than you think.

Haha yeah that 1 season makes them a dynasty LMAO

RazorOye
03-16-2013, 07:58 PM
He is in New Orleans. So far, speculation ranges from meeting with the Saints to a family commitment.

bOODRO87
03-16-2013, 08:08 PM
Haha yeah that 1 season makes them a dynasty LMAO

I'll have whatever it is that makes you so optimistic about the Texans. Schaub's foot might not be able to handle a full season again. Posey is a huge question mark now. So is the OL even if Newton didn't have knee surgery. Can AJ play another season healthy? What about Cushing returning to form? Obviously some rookies in this coming up draft may have to start.

What do the Colts have to worry about? Bruce Arians was replaced by Luck's Stanford OC so that has a good chance of working out for them.

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 08:19 PM
He is in New Orleans. So far, speculation ranges from meeting with the Saints to a family commitment.

It was reported he had a scheduled appearance for one of his foundations.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-16-2013, 08:27 PM
He is in New Orleans. So far, speculation ranges from meeting with the Saints to a family commitment.

Likely family commitment or one of his foundations. He was born and raised in NOLA area. Strong pursuit in obtaining Reed are Texans and Ravens I think and maybe NE as a dark horse. But who knows, anything can happen.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 09:30 PM
Nope, Colts were lucky and rode an emotional high, they were severely outscored by opponents last season. It was a fluke. They will be at BEST 8-8 next season.

Their team doesn't have to be great if their QB can be great. Luck might great next season. THis year he was really good as a rookie. From the IQ of his on the field knowledge to his plays he makes regularly, I won't be surprised at all if he's one of the best QB's in the league by next year. It will really just depend on how well he does end up being next season compared to last.

GP
03-16-2013, 10:06 PM
I think Ravens sign Dumerville, essentially pushing Ed Reed to sign with Houston (Pats have Adrian Wilson now, so I don't see them pursuing Ed Reed).

We need secondary help. We need LB help, too. Tough call but I think Reed is less expensive than Dumerville is.

This will be a money decision, taking care of Quin's vacated spot and going LB-heavy in the draft. I'd even consider packaging picks to move up of there's a Wade Phillips-type LB we think is superstar material. Go big or go home.

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 04:56 AM
I wonder how much it cost to woo Ed Reed during his stay here in Houston?

Must have spent a crap load on Jet fuel alone.

Brisco_County
03-17-2013, 05:17 AM
I think Ravens sign Dumerville, essentially pushing Ed Reed to sign with Houston (Pats have Adrian Wilson now, so I don't see them pursuing Ed Reed).

We need secondary help. We need LB help, too. Tough call but I think Reed is less expensive than Dumerville is.

This will be a money decision, taking care of Quin's vacated spot and going LB-heavy in the draft. I'd even consider packaging picks to move up of there's a Wade Phillips-type LB we think is superstar material. Go big or go home.

I concur. The decision just got easier for him.

This offseason is even more fun than 2011.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-17-2013, 05:40 AM
I wonder how much it cost to woo Ed Reed during his stay here in Houston?

Must have spent a crap load on Jet fuel alone.

Likely around 10K and it's a chump money for uncle Bob. Also, tax deductible.

CloakNNNdagger
03-17-2013, 09:17 AM
The longer this goes on the more probability Reed remains a dirty bird.

Baltimore Ravens determined to hold on to Ed Reed (http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1993959)
by Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY Sports

PHOENIX -- Don't expect Ed Reed to leave the Baltimore Ravens without Ozzie Newsome waging a determined bid to keep the all-pro safety.

The Ravens general manager told USA TODAY Sports on Saturday night that he anticipates Reed's status will be finalized in the coming week, and that he expects to meet with agent David Dunn this week while in town for NFL owners meetings.

Reed, 34, an unrestricted free agent, completed a two-day visit with the Houston Texans on Friday without striking a deal that could add to the list of impact players to defect from the Super Bowl champions.

The scenario reminds Newsome of the case in 2009 with Ray Lewis, who was also represented by Dunn as he explored the market as a free agent before ultimately returning.

"Four years ago, we went down this same road with Ray," Newsome said. "Dave always does a very good job of keeping us in the loop. That doesn't mean that Ed will come back, and it doesn't mean that he will leave."

It could hinge on whether Newsome puts together an offer strong enough to convince Reed to stay put. Reed, preparing for a 12th NFL season, earned $7.2 million in 2012.

Newsome would not discuss specifics of his proposed deal, and Dunn could not be reached for comment.

Keeping Reed, though, would obviously represent a much-needed offseason victory for the Ravens and Newsome, who after signing Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco to the richest contract in NFL history (6 years, $120.6 million), were rocked by a series of departures as the new league year began last week.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-17-2013, 09:23 AM
The longer this goes on the more probability Reed remains a dirty bird.

Yep, sounds like it. Only way the Texans may able to sign Reed is the contents of contract such as multi year, guarantee money amount and so on.

Tailgate
03-17-2013, 10:14 AM
He left town without a contract. Very rarely does it end up working out after.

texan279
03-17-2013, 10:18 AM
Can the FO just end all this BS and go after Woodson already?? Let Reed go crawling back to the dirty birds already, tired of this BS.

CloakNNNdagger
03-17-2013, 10:32 AM
Can the FO just end all this BS and go after Woodson already?? Let Reed go crawling back to the dirty birds already, tired of this BS.

Woodson MAY be a decent temporary replacement for Quin in that before his collarbone fracture at St. Louis last year (missed 9 games), he was playing strong safety in the Packers' base defense, then playing the nickel and dime slot positions in sub packages. But his coverage skills are questionable at this point.

Uncle Rico
03-17-2013, 12:29 PM
Looks like Troy Nolan may end up being our starting FS. Woo Hoo. Nice job Rick Smith.

rolyat93
03-17-2013, 12:45 PM
Looks like Troy Nolan may end up being our starting FS. Woo Hoo. Nice job Rick Smith.

Yes, there are literally no other options to pursue at that position.

:vincepalm:

drs23
03-17-2013, 01:18 PM
snip some of a great post...

This is a business. Some teams dick around and treat it like Madden video game (i.e. Jerry and Daniel of the Cowboys and Redskins) flinging cash and throwing caution to the wind, contract structures and ramifications be damned! And some teams, like ours, are working within the cap and taking this thing slowly and methodically. At the end of the day, I just think people are too damn impatient about it all. It ought to happen and if it didn't happen then somebody in the FO is a boob. That's bad analysis.

GP, great points and analogy. I, for one, had not looked at the situation like this and it makes "real world" sense to me.

texan279
03-17-2013, 01:32 PM
Woodson MAY be a decent temporary replacement for Quin in that before his collarbone fracture at St. Louis last year (missed 9 games), he was playing strong safety in the Packers' base defense, then playing the nickel and dime slot positions in sub packages. But his coverage skills are questionable at this point.


I understand what you are saying, but even if we did sign Reed I wouldn't think we would get more than 2 decent years out of him. Smith and the FO counldn't get a deal inked while he was here so I am not getting my hopes up on Reed signing here. Just saying I would rather the FO go out and try to sign at least a serviceable safety instead of waiting for Reed when he may not even sign here anyway.

TexansCountry
03-17-2013, 01:48 PM
I understand what you are saying, but even if we did sign Reed I wouldn't think we would get more than 2 decent years out of him. Smith and the FO counldn't get a deal inked while he was here so I am not getting my hopes up on Reed signing here. Just saying I would rather the FO go out and try to sign at least a serviceable safety instead of waiting for Reed when he may not even sign here anyway.

I wonder if good things come to the those who wait apply to this? I just hope they don't dick around and its too late

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 01:52 PM
GP, great points and analogy. I, for one, had not looked at the situation like this and it makes "real world" sense to me.

Let me offer another, possibly also correct, viewpoint.

The cowboys unwisely overspent, but are also still paying for the "uncapped" year that wasn't. All the owners that didn't go over the phantom cap decided to punish them for spending extra money.

On the Texans side:

overpaid for Schaub and Foster.
gave Andre Johnson a raise when he still had 5 years left on his contract. They made that contract incentive heavy but he freaking hit all the escalators and incentives. Now his cap hit for 2013 is 14.6 million dollars, or more than double than it would have been.
botched the secondary personel moves that resulted in a wasted season, and the need to break the bank bringing in JJo and Manning. The pain is coming this year in the form of Antonio and Joseph's 20 million against the cap.

GP
03-17-2013, 02:35 PM
Let me offer another, possibly also correct, viewpoint.

The cowboys unwisely overspent, but are also still paying for the "uncapped" year that wasn't. All the owners that didn't go over the phantom cap decided to punish them for spending extra money.

On the Texans side:

overpaid for Schaub and Foster.
gave Andre Johnson a raise when he still had 5 years left on his contract. They made that contract incentive heavy but he freaking hit all the escalators and incentives. Now his cap hit for 2013 is 14.6 million dollars, or more than double than it would have been.
botched the secondary personel moves that resulted in a wasted season, and the need to break the bank bringing in JJo and Manning. The pain is coming this year in the form of Antonio and Joseph's 20 million against the cap.


I think the biggest regret the FO has to have is the Matt Schaub contract one game into the regular season this past year. That was a big goof-up. It came on the heels of Peyton Manning being deified in the media all summer long, so I think they felt that IF Matt had a spectacular game after his first real game against real competition, then it was time to blast the media with news that we've locked up OUR very own QB and that we're just fine without Peyton Manning. That's the whole "loyalty" thing that the entire organization is frankly known for exhibiting too much of in its brief history.

I get the sense that Rick Smith is the coldest guy in the room. I think he's constantly trying to talk sense into both the head coach AND the owner when it comes to this loyalty issue that they have. Does Bob McNair strike anyone here as being a pretty clutch owner 10 years into the Texans' existence? I didn't think so. Great man, no doubt. Spends money on facilities and a great game-day experience, no doubt. Loyal, no doubt. But I think he and Gary are cut from the same cloth when it comes to the concept of letting go. Rick, on the other hand, seems like he's ready and willing to cut and trim and make unpopular moves. Just from watching them in interviews, seeing how people perceive them over the years, you get the sense that Rick is ready to wheel and deal.

We didn't goof up on Foster. I don't think he's as all-world as he's been made out to be. But when he has decent blocking, he gets the job done. He's been severely under-used in the passing game, too. Matt freaking throws the ball to places sometimes that not even an 8-foot tall man is going to pull down, but the times he gets the pass he's doing something with it. I think Foster is our guy at RB. End of story. Had to sign him before his deal ran out, or he would be out of here right now. He'd be on one of the teams who had a bazillion dollars in cap space. Tate and Forsett heading into 2013? No thanks.

Antonio Smith is arguable. He had a down year this past season. But hey, the whole defense did. Right? Right.

Joseph is worth every penny we gave him. The alternative is to put KJ at CB1 and then what would we field as CB2??? I can't think of any player we could have had two years ago, for a CB spot, that would've made our secondary good enough to handle the NFL's best WRs. Money well spent, for a change.

Now we'll have JJ Watt to re-sign. Heh, you guys are going to **** the bed when that deal gets announced. How does that deal not end up breaking us apart like Flacco's deal did to the Ravens??? JJ Watt is the man. And yet we've got all these other really good, really deserving players to pay. Or we lose them.

Success sucks. We've been in business as Texans fans for 10 years, we know nothing of what it's like to go 50 or 60 years without being dominant and then being successful and watching our success cause us to be poor and pitiful again. 10 years as a Texans fan. Two of those 10 years, which are the past two seasons of football, we've won the division and made it to the divisional round each year...and we're paying for it. It happens. Time to quit the bitching and belly-aching and just accept that "Yes, we are going to have make money decisions. Yes, we have to draft like rock stars every year. And yes, we're going to end up sometimes getting a Plan B rather than a Plan A."

Doesn't mean our FO are complete idiots. Does it? Refer back to my rant earlier about how we're an instant gratification society. That's all I got to say.

The problems we have, they're good problems to have. IMO.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 02:51 PM
Personally, if we can pull something close to the Herschel Walker trade, I'll do it.

Texn4life
03-17-2013, 02:55 PM
The only reason I'm upset is the Texans FO should have known what it was going to take to get him signed before they sent out for him. Yeah, Andre said he was interested but they should know it comes with a price. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do what they did and not understand what it'll take to get the deal done. U have to sign him at this point even for an extra 2 million if that's what it takes. We can free up money re-structuring.

Uncle Rico
03-17-2013, 02:56 PM
It's the "Houstonian Attitude" ... been scorned so many times and had our hearts ripped from our chests enough to just be happy to compete. God forbid the fanbase actually expects the team to be proactive and appease the fans every once in a while and make the moves that scream "Super Bowl or Bust"!!

We dont have this 'seek and destroy' mindset that many other cities and fans have. We are content just winning division championships and are quick to hang banners for that. As a team they dont have the 'kick em while they're down' mentality that a Belichik team has, often allowing teams that were supposed to be down and out, back into the contest. I've heard that they dont even hang AFC East banners in Foxboro, only Super Bowl banners, thats the mindset I want to have, yet many of my 'bro's' are just happy that they dont suck anymore.

I hate the fact that the rest of the nation views us as country hicks, and IMO sometimes in trades or even personnel decisions I cant help but think how much more that stereotype gets engrained "those dumb Texans" because apart from the respected contributors of this site, I dont read many publications applauding our personnel decisions, I wonder why?

76Texan
03-17-2013, 02:57 PM
The only reason I'm upset is the Texans FO should have known what it was going to take to get him signed before they sent out for him. Yeah, Andre said he was interested but they should know it comes with a price. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do what they did and not understand what it'll take to get the deal done. U have to sign him at this point even for an extra 2 million if that's what it takes. We can free up money re-structuring.

I dunno, due dilligence never hurts, I don't think.

Perhaps, they were looking for the possibility of the Ravens totally revamp that defense by going young ?

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 02:59 PM
We didn't goof up on Foster.Tate and Forsett heading into 2013? No thanks.

He was a restricted free agent. You could have put a first round tender for 1/3 of his 2012 contract then franchised him this year for the same we are paying now if he didn't want to make a deal.

Antonio Smith is arguable. He had a down year this past season. But hey, the whole defense did. Right? Right.
I kinda thought he had an awesome season, I was just pointing out his restructured contract that brought in JJo and Manning is entering it's final year and thus his cap hit is massive. Not to mention he is a bandaid in the same way JJo was. We needed him to cover the amobi okoye bust of a draft pick in that epic 2007 draft class Smith chose.


Joseph is worth every penny we gave him. The alternative is to put KJ at CB1 and then what would we field as CB2???
JJo is great but he was a "don't fire me move" when Smith botched the secondary and wasted a season. Any kind of a defense gets that 2010 team in the playoffs. The quick fix burns you later though. He came at the cost of Meco and Winston which turned out to be big problems when our ILB depth hit -3 in a hurry last year and our right side blocking was hot garbage. I didn't even mention Mario, lol.


Success sucks. Two of those 10 years, which are the past two seasons of football, we've won the division and made it to the divisional round each year...and we're paying for it. It happens. Doesn't mean our FO are complete idiots. Does it? Refer back to my rant earlier about how we're an instant gratification society. That's all I got to say. The problems we have, they're good problems to have. IMO.
Other teams seem to have a bit of a longer run before the ship starts listing. After one year in the playoffs we lost KEY players to cap problems. Other teams have a little bit of a longer run before hard choices like this are made.

Texn4life
03-17-2013, 03:00 PM
I dunno, due dilligence never hurts, I don't think.

Perhaps, they were looking for the possibility of the Ravens totally revamp that defense by going young ?

Well then make it known ahead of time what we're offering. Its not hard to have a common understanding before he boards the plane.

CloakNNNdagger
03-17-2013, 03:05 PM
Personally, if we can pull something close to the Herschel Walker trade, I'll do it.

The problem with that is the possibility of not hitting on a Herschel Walker.......and hitting on a Ryan Leaf.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 03:25 PM
The problem with that is the possibility of not hitting on a Herschel Walker.......and hitting on a Ryan Leaf.

No, I mean trade JJ Watt for a gazillions 1st and 2nd round picks is what I mean.

2slik4u
03-17-2013, 03:28 PM
No, I mean trade JJ Watt for a gazillions 1st and 2nd round picks is what I mean.

No way. I would have to think about giving up watt for Brady let alone a bunch of high draft picks.

Watt is the face of the franchise and arguably the best thing that has happened to us in our existence.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 03:28 PM
Well then make it known ahead of time what we're offering. Its not hard to have a common understanding before he boards the plane.

The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.

GP
03-17-2013, 03:30 PM
JJo is great but he was a "don't fire me move" when Smith botched the secondary and wasted a season. Any kind of a defense gets that 2010 team in the playoffs. The quick fix burns you later though. He came at the cost of Meco and Winston which turned out to be big problems when our ILB depth hit -3 in a hurry last year and our right side blocking was hot garbage. I didn't even mention Mario, lol.

How is it Rick's fault that Gary hired a guy, Frank Bush, whom Gary waited upon until Frank Bush's contract with the Arizona Cardinals was up??? Gary Kubiak chose Richard Smith, our first d-coord...Gary Kubiak, as has been proven via interviews and reports, also wanted Frank Bush but Bush was tied up at the time with the Cardinals. Once Bush's contract finally concluded, he was brought aboard and assisted Richard Smith until Richard Smith was fired and GARY KUBIAK finally was able to transition Bush into the d-coord role.

NONE of that is on Rick Smith. The bad defense was bad because of incompetency on the coaching level, which means when your foundation is poor anything built upon it will be bad, too, no matter how hard you try.

Rick Smith does not make coaching decisions in terms of employment. I've never read or listened to anything that proves otherwise. Rick is in charge of many things, chief among them is the scouting of players and the attempts to sign them to our team...Gary has made several references, most of which came during an in-camp interview with Gary a season or two ago, in which we learn that often times Rick and the scouting team have a list of players and they help Gary with identifying and eventually signing those players the team determines would fit Gary's needs. Rick is not choosing and signing Gary's assistant coaches, not even the d-coordinators. That's Gary's responsibility, and I'm sure he does have meetings with Bob and Rick when he wants to make a move on those things...but hey, he didn't make a move on firing Frank Bush until his hand was practically forced after 2010. In fact, an interview with Bob McNair reveals that Bob said he wondered if Gary would let his loyalty to his coaches get himself fired in the same way that Capers' loyalty to coaches got Capers fired several years prior. See? Coaching decisions are GARY'S responsibility.

Therefore, sure, Rick is helping to stock the roster according to what the coaches say they want. Lists are made, inquiries to agents are made, tryouts are usually held, and then the team makes a decision. That's normalcy at work. I'm sure each coach stands on the table for guys they demand they have, whenever other personnel might be opposed to those players and conversely wanting a different player. It happens. I can guarantee you the biggest Schaub advocate on this team is the head coach. Period.

All of this is to say this: After 2010, it's my firm belief that Bob McNair was s angry as he had ever been. As dejected as he had ever been. He had had enough. I firmly believe that he sat down with Rick, Gary, whomever else, and they all discussed this thing as passionately as they could. At the end of that scenario, I also firmly believe that Bob and Rick and Gary all three agreed that it was Go For Broke time. Push all the chips into the center of the table, let the payment came due in later seasons if it had to come due, but that we were committed to working as a focused team toward making some radical changes.

Up until then, our biggest moves were (in no particular order):

1. Taking on a slew of Jaguars in an expansion draft scenario that gave us a guy in Boselli who would never see the field of play again. Ever.

2. Drafting a QB that the owner fell in love with because of things non-football related. Obviously. And plus, that's what you do when you have the #1 pick and you're a new team...you pick a QB right out of the gate.

3. So many awful RBs, you cannot even name them all. Stacy Mack, James Allen, Tony Hollings, Jonathan Wells, Wali Lundy, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, Chris Brown, the list goes on forever.

4. Ahman Green. Ugh. THAT was heralded as being a really, really BIG move for the Texans. Along with Eric Moulds. We had twice as many pages on this message board about the potential to sign Eric Moulds as we've had for Ed Reed. LOL. Amazing, no?

5. Extended David Carr for an extra year, to see if Kubiak could work with him and rebuild him. That was a Bob McNair move all the way.

6. Philip Buchanon at CB, in a trade with the Raiders. Holy cow, what a travesty that trade ended up being. It was criminal. That's on Casserly all the way.

7. Tried to trade Carr but couldn't, so we had to release him. And the guy trashes us out every chance he got after that. Schaub was the best FA/trade acquisition we had made in years.

But hey, let's talk about the post-2010 decision and how we're "paying for it now." We actually have something to look at for our payments we're making, and that was a joint effort, IMO, between Bob and Gary and Rick.

Of those three, however, I don't see the GM as being the guy that needed the convincing. Bob and Gary are the loyalists. Rick is very lone wolf, do whatever it takes. When players get whacked, it came from Rick's pistol. And the guy isn't upset about that role at all. He relishes it you can see it in him when he speaks about his roles with the team. Neither Bob nor Gary want that blood on their hands. They're culpable, but they're insulated and distanced from it.

Up until 2010, it was a philosophy of "Steady as she goes....stay the course...we'll hit smooth waters SOMEDAY...just don't rock the boat." Now we've got something to honestly maintain and build upon, and people think we've mismanaged the team???????????? I don't get it, I guess.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 03:32 PM
No way. I would have to think about giving up watt for Brady let alone a bunch of high draft picks.

Watt is the face of the franchise and arguably the best thing that has happened to us in our existence.

I understand, but money will be a concern.

If you get a lot of high draft picks from one team, it would be difficult for them to compete in 2-4 years, virtually guaranteeing you with high draft picks.

You will have 2-3 new starters (extra) for a couple of years at lower cost which allow you to spend money on FAs to build a solid team for at least half a decade.

handswarmer
03-17-2013, 03:34 PM
The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.

Rvens did the samething to Ray Lewis in 2009- "Go out and find your #, then come back and talk to us" is what Ozzie said.

History repeats itself. Who knows what Ed might do: but one ting I do know is I wouldn't play poker with Ozzie.

GP
03-17-2013, 03:36 PM
The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.

Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 03:41 PM
Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.

I agree.

Also I agree that Rick Smith is pretty solid as a GM.

The rest is up to the coaches (Kubiak, Wade, Marcianno) and the players.

Somehow, if the core players can manage to stay on the field (Mario, Barwin, Schaub, Ryans, Cushing) ; that would help, too.

handswarmer
03-17-2013, 03:41 PM
Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.

Ed himself might be saying "Ozzie, baby, you drafted me, I went to pro bowls here, I got a ring here, I got a home here; give me an offer I can't refuse? Help a brother out here"

Texn4life
03-17-2013, 04:08 PM
Ed himself might be saying "Ozzie, baby, you drafted me, I went to pro bowls here, I got a ring here, I got a home here; give me an offer I can't refuse? Help a brother out here"

Ed doesn't wanna relocate...... trust me that does make a difference.

djohn2oo8
03-17-2013, 04:11 PM
Ed doesn't wanna relocate...... trust me that does make a difference.

Exactly. If he wanted to relocate he would have visited more teams than just the Texans.

handswarmer
03-17-2013, 04:20 PM
The word is that his agents are talking to seveal teams; only Houston gave him the magic carpet ride.

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 04:29 PM
OMG you type a ton. Fair warning, I won't be able to keep up. :jogger:
So if I bail, no offense lol.

How is it Rick's fault that Gary hired a guy, Frank Bush, whom Gary waited upon until Frank Bush's contract with the Arizona Cardinals was up???
NONE of that is on Rick Smith. The bad defense was bad because of incompetency on the coaching level,


I think our 2010 secondary was clearly more of a talent issue.


Therefore, sure, Rick is helping to stock the roster according to what the coaches say they want. Lists are made, inquiries to agents are made, tryouts are usually held, and then the team makes a decision.

Normally I might agree but I'm not so sure Bush asked for a nickel package consisting of Eugene Wilson, Bernard Pollard, rookie Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, and Glover Quin with Zach Diles and an overtrained, suspended Cushing at LB.
That was a recipe for disaster. Plus did Bush forget how to coach after 2009? Or did the loss of Meco, Cushing, Robinson etc. make teams decide to keep us in nickel and just throw on every down?


But hey, let's talk about the post-2010 decision and how we're "paying for it now." He relishes it you can see it in him when he speaks about his roles with the team. Neither Bob nor Gary want that blood on their hands. They're culpable, but they're insulated and distanced from it.
Now we've got something to honestly maintain and build upon, and people think we've mismanaged the team???????????? I don't get it, I guess.


I am not sure I would say mismanaged, and I'm not talking just about Rick Smith. Their problems are based mainly on poor drafting and personnel movement failures, not the free agent acquisitions that were needed to repair those mistakes. Okoye (1st), Fred Bennet (4th), Antwaun Molden (3rd), Xavier Adibi (4th), Frank Okam (5th), Antoine Caldwell (3rd) were total busts who didn't contribute. As a direct result you had to spend free agent money on Chris Meyers, Antonio Smith, JJo and Manning to cover up those holes you created. Look at the direct correlation between positions of draft busts and free agent cash. When Smith decided to give dunta robinson the boot, he failed to bring in a cheaper guy that could fill that hole with either his picks or a cheaper free agent.

I bring up the Schaub, Foster and Andre contracts as afterthoughts to the main problem. I am not saying paying those guys more than you had to killed the cap. But what is a better formula for winning, having Dre and Foster playing on contracts they don't like or cutting Winston, Barwin, Demeco and Quin? And I give them all kinds of credit for Antonio Smith, Chris Meyers, JJo and Manning. Great signings in places of need. You just had too many places of need.

Texn4life
03-17-2013, 04:33 PM
The word is that his agents are talking to seveal teams; only Houston gave him the magic carpet ride.

Talk in free agency only means I'm letting my girlfriend know I can leave her ass if you slip up. Ed knows who he wants to go to.

bhsman
03-17-2013, 04:42 PM
I am not sure I would say mismanaged, and I'm not talking just about Rick Smith. Their problems are based mainly on poor drafting and personnel movement failures, not the free agent acquisitions that were needed to repair those mistakes. Okoye (1st), Fred Bennet (4th), Antwaun Molden (3rd), Xavier Adibi (4th), Frank Okam (5th), Antoine Caldwell (3rd) were total busts who didn't contribute.

You complain about this and neglect the rest of the 2009 draft? Or 2010/2011? That's being a bit disingenuous.

badboy
03-17-2013, 04:49 PM
I understand what you are saying, but even if we did sign Reed I wouldn't think we would get more than 2 decent years out of him. Smith and the FO counldn't get a deal inked while he was here so I am not getting my hopes up on Reed signing here. Just saying I would rather the FO go out and try to sign at least a serviceable safety instead of waiting for Reed when he may not even sign here anyway.We don't have to get more than two seasons from Reed. We can draft a 2nd or third round in 2014 to train under Reed's last year or a 1st in 2015 to start. that is what would be good about getting a starter in FA, we can ignore safety in this coming draft.

thunderkyss
03-17-2013, 05:22 PM
Dude, he isn't about to come here just because AJ is here.

I think playing with Aj clearly is not enough for him to play for a $5M pittance. That much is clear already.

Now he's going to dance with Baltimore, if there truly are no other suitors, & he will find out that Baltimore either values what he brings more than we do, or less.

If he goes to Baltimore for less than a 2 year $5M deal, we'll know exactly how much his friendship with Aj is worth.

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 05:25 PM
You complain about this and neglect the rest of the 2009 draft? Or 2010/2011? That's being a bit disingenuous.

I am just showing the correlation between draft failures and cap problems.

From 2006-2009 you drafted 7 defensive backs and spent a 3rd two 4th's, 5th two 6th's and a 7th on them. In 2010 rookies Kareem and Sherrick McManis. For all of those draft picks the only thing you had to show for it was Quin, McCain (sorta) and Kareem(?). So 5 years of drafting and you have nothing for DB's you have to spend big in free agency. (JJo) Big cap hit.

2007 Amobi Okoye busts, 2008 Frank Okam busts, 2009 you have to sign Antonio Smith because Anthony Weaver also didn't pan out. Big Cap hit.

People are talking like we drafted so well we can't keep all of our players, the reality is, we drafted poorly and stole other players. We could still have every player we drafted since 2006 on the roster under the cap plus Dre easily.

Tesuns
03-17-2013, 06:12 PM
Its going to be Ed Reed, or Charles Woodson.

the wonger need food
03-17-2013, 06:17 PM
We don't have to get more than two seasons from Reed. We can draft a 2nd or third round in 2014 to train under Reed's last year or a 1st in 2015 to start. that is what would be good about getting a starter in FA, we can ignore safety in this coming draft.


Problem is, these guys have no clue how to draft secondary talent. Way more busts than legit NFL players.

powda
03-17-2013, 06:23 PM
He'll sign in baltimore. If he were going to be here he would've signed by now. Stop daydreaming about reed, woodson, or aso and start thing about a guy like sensabaugh. And before you ask, yes someone crapped in my cheerios.

EllisUnit
03-17-2013, 06:42 PM
I dont care where Ed Reed signs but we better some news about houston signing someone significant this up coming week otherwise the texans FO isnt to serious about competeing IMO

TheMatrix31
03-17-2013, 06:48 PM
I dont care where Ed Reed signs but we better some news about houston signing someone significant this up coming week otherwise the texans FO isnt to serious about competeing IMO

Or maybe we don't have much money and flexibility because we have a bunch of guys to pay because we ARE serious about competing? Hm.

bhsman
03-17-2013, 07:16 PM
Someone needs to post that link about teams that go all-out in FA aren't the ones that end up succeeding as a result; sometimes slow and steady wins championships.

EllisUnit
03-17-2013, 07:47 PM
Or maybe we don't have much money and flexibility because we have a bunch of guys to pay because we ARE serious about competing? Hm.

Dude i dont mean a 20 million dollar a year guy, i mean a vet WR or Safety. Maybe a guy who can produce for cheap like Brandon Lloyd.

And yes i guess they paid Schaub big bucks because they are serious about competing. Your right :cow:

All that aside i know they are serious about competing but we dont need to go the route we went last season with the O-line. We dont need to sit back and think hey we will fill all our holes with the draft. Cause we do have enough cap to sign 2 vet guys who can start day 1.

EllisUnit
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
Someone needs to post that link about teams that go all-out in FA aren't the ones that end up succeeding as a result; sometimes slow and steady wins championships.

slow and steady for 10 years and counting...........

But we dont have money to break the bank but we do have holes to fill. So you think we should sign noone and just pull some people from the Practice Squad and fill holes with the draft.

People complain about Rick Sith and Co but after reading some of yalls suggestions we should all be blessed that they are running the show.

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 07:56 PM
FWIW Ed Reed is at Reliant Stadium right now.

EllisUnit
03-17-2013, 07:57 PM
FWIW Ed Reed is at Reliant Stadium right now.

a link ??? I'm tired of going off of all these insiders with absolutely 0 insider info...

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 08:08 PM
a link ??? I'm tired of going off of all these insiders with absolutely 0 insider info...

A friend of mine who works at Reliant saw him there.

Playoffs
03-17-2013, 08:10 PM
A friend of mine who works at Reliant saw him there.Was it Matt Turk?

Nawzer
03-17-2013, 08:11 PM
FWIW Ed Reed is at Reliant Stadium right now.

It's not worth much at this point man. Sorry. :swatter:

DX-TEX
03-17-2013, 08:13 PM
FWIW Ed Reed is at Reliant Stadium right now.

Is Bernard Pollard and Eric Winston with him?

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 08:17 PM
I'm sick and tired of this Ed Reed situation just like the rest of you guys but that's what my friend just texted me.

Lets see if anything new comes out of this.

If not, I will no longer talk to this bloke.

texan279
03-17-2013, 08:19 PM
Is Bernard Pollard and Eric Winston with him?


Yep. Ochocinco's picking them up from Reliant and they're headin' to the club. /sarcasm

Nawzer
03-17-2013, 08:25 PM
I'm sick and tired of this Ed Reed situation just like the rest of you guys but that's what my friend just texted me.

Lets see if anything new comes out of this.

If not, I will no longer talk to this bloke.

That's reassuring.

Vinny
03-17-2013, 08:28 PM
FWIW Ed Reed is at Reliant Stadium right now.your credibility is low right now...try to post something smarter. Ed's agent just said he was going to talk to the Texans at the league meeting.

djohn2oo8
03-17-2013, 08:29 PM
That's reassuring.

Especially since he said he talked to someone at reliant the other day who said the signing was a done deal.

76Texan
03-17-2013, 08:29 PM
Double or nothing, LOL!

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Got another text from the bloke.

Apparently, he came out wearing a Texans T-shirt. Again, I'm not witnessing any of this, so don't shoot the messenger.

I just want this to end one way or other......sigh.