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CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 02:48 PM
We now know what Newton's surgery was.



John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL

Kubiak said ILB Brian Cushing (ACL) and WR DeVier Posey (Achilles tendon) won't participate in OTAs. Cushing should be ready for camp.

2h John McClain John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL

Kubiak said there are questions about RT Derek Newton, recovering from patellar tendon surgery, being able to participate in OTAs.


2h John McClain John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL

Vinny
03-19-2013, 02:49 PM
Texans | Believe DeVier Posey could be mid-season addition

Houston Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said believes WR DeVier Posey (Achilles') could return during the middle of the 2013 NFL season.

https://twitter.com/TexansTalk/status/314084860186734592

Vinny
03-19-2013, 02:54 PM
Kubiak on the health of the offensive line:

“That’s a concern. If Newton’s going to miss a portion of the offseason. If we started OTAs today (Andrew) Gardner would line up opposite Duane. It’s something we’ve got to continue to look at. Ryan Harris (RT who’s a UFA) played well for us last season, so there’s a possibility we could have him back on our team. We believe in Newton. If he can progress off what he did last season, he’s on his way to being a good player.” http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/03/texans-kubiak-talks-free-agent-losses-and-injuries/

Playoffs
03-19-2013, 03:04 PM
We now know what Newton's surgery was.
RT Derek Newton, recovering from patellar tendon surgery

So Doc, quick rundown on how serious that is & what the recovery & longer term ramifications are? When you have the time. :)

badboy
03-19-2013, 03:13 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/03/texans-kubiak-talks-free-agent-losses-and-injuries/

We believe in Newton. If he can progress off what he did last season, he’s on his way to being a good player.”

This is what I have been saying about Derek. Most of our problem came from RG not RT. If Newton had not been injured or was 100% by preseason, I think Gary would go with Gardner as the backup swing. I think Harris is a possible re-sign but he needs to step up if his back allows him. This should allow those mocking an OT in top 3 rounds to go different direction.

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 03:56 PM
So Doc, quick rundown on how serious that is & what the recovery & longer term ramifications are? When you have the time. :)

Newton must have had a problem with the knee for sometime. He was out for game 13 and 14 with a “knee.” Looking at this with today’s information, Newton had an inflammation of the patellar tendon (chronic patellar tendonitis) with possible small tendon tears already at that time and evidently tried to play through it until he no longer could. He was treated conservatively with rest.......2 weeks is very short to expect this type of problem to resolve. When the knee pain became “manageable” again, since the Texans were down to almost nothing with the T position, he was evidently put out there again to try to finish out the year. He did. But evidently in doing so, developed major tears from the continued inflammation and weakening of the continually traumatized tendon. Such a case would no longer be appropriate for conservative management, and especially in an NFL player would require surgical repair in order to return and remain on the field with any semblance of production.

A study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine in November. 2011 Patellar tendon ruptures in National Football League players reveal some potentially important trends.

*Twenty-four ruptures of the patellar tendon in 22 National Football League (NFL) players were identified from 1994 through 2004. Team physicians retrospectively reviewed training room and clinic records, operative notes, and imaging studies for each of these players. Player game statistics and draft status were analyzed to identify return to play predictors. A successful outcome was defined as participating in 1 regular-season NFL game.

*Eleven of the 24 injuries had antecedent symptoms.

*Three of the 24 cases had a concomitant anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury.

*In 19 of the 24 injuries, the player returned to participate in at least 1 game in the NFL.

*Players who returned were drafted, on average, in the fourth round, while those who failed to return to play were drafted, on average, in the sixth round.

*Of those players who returned to play, the average number of games played was 45.4, with a range of 1 to 142 games.

*Professional football players with isolated rupture of the patellar tendon treated with TIMELY surgical repair will return to their sport.

*It should be known that in general, patients who require this type of surgery do better if the repair is performed early after the injury. Early repair may prevent the tendon from scarring and tightening in a shortened position, leading to compromised return of knee flexion and/or quadriceps strength.

pec0sb0b
03-19-2013, 03:57 PM
Still think it's been a mistake to go the low-budget route at right tackle. A seventh round pick and a UDFA...on a team that makes so much money running the ball...c'mon man. Sometimes even in the NFL you get what you pay for.

badboy
03-19-2013, 04:02 PM
Any idea why surgery was delayed after season was over?

GP
03-19-2013, 04:21 PM
Still think it's been a mistake to go the low-budget route at right tackle. A seventh round pick and a UDFA...on a team that makes so much money running the ball...c'mon man. Sometimes even in the NFL you get what you pay for.

Looks that way, for sure.

Hard to keep the shelves stocked, though, when you draft around 6 or 7 players every draft....yet you've got 11 starters on offense and 11 on defense.

Takes around 4 years of drafts to create an 11-man offense and an 11-man defense....if you started from scratch and used only a standard NFL draft, counting one guy per round over tje course of a 7-round draft. 7 players multiplied by 3 years = 21 players, one shy of a full O and full D.

And that's just for 22 starters. Still need 31 more 2nd stringers etc.

The logistics of fielding a truly GREAT team in the NFL is crazy.

badboy
03-19-2013, 04:25 PM
Still think it's been a mistake to go the low-budget route at right tackle. A seventh round pick and a UDFA...on a team that makes so much money running the ball...c'mon man. Sometimes even in the NFL you get what you pay for.You are aware that Newton statistically compared favorably with Duane Brown? Don't focus on where player was drafted or signed (udfa) but how they played. Harris has skills and should be much healthier by game one.

Vinny
03-19-2013, 04:28 PM
You are aware that Newton statistically compared favorably with Duane Brown? Don't focus on where player was drafted or signed (udfa) but how they played. Harris has skills and should be much healthier by game one.you can't tell how good a tackle is based on a stat line.

badboy
03-19-2013, 04:33 PM
you can't tell how good a tackle is based on a stat line.

uh that's why I posted watch how they play. Brown had a good vet to split time with him and teach him, Newton did not and does not. Not saying he is as good or better but stats are important. Not everything but sacks allowed and runs to that player's side are valuable pieces of info or the team would not keep them.

Dutchrudder
03-19-2013, 04:35 PM
You are aware that Newton statistically compared favorably with Duane Brown? Don't focus on where player was drafted or signed (udfa) but how they played. Harris has skills and should be much healthier by game one.

Harris isn't currently on the team. Latest I heard on him:

@NickScurfield
Kubiak said #Texans “still very interested in” FA T Ryan Harris, & "there’s an opportunity for (Tim) Dobbins hopefully to come back."

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 04:37 PM
Any idea why surgery was delayed after season was over?

Most likely to try to allow some of the inflammatory tissue changes from the continued trauma to decrease in the knee.

Playoffs
03-19-2013, 04:38 PM
Newton must have had a problem with the knee for sometime...

As always, MSR Doc. Thanks. :tiphat:

eriadoc
03-19-2013, 04:39 PM
So Doc, quick rundown on how serious that is & what the recovery & longer term ramifications are?

*not a doc*

I have had problems with my patellar tendon for years (jumper's knee). I can tell you from experience that it's very hard to get any real push. It's also very difficult to bend your knees properly, which leads to improper posture and off balance, which is obviously bad for a tackle. For his to be bad enough to warrant surgery, that's a helluva task to play with it.

Dutchrudder
03-19-2013, 04:54 PM
*not a doc*

I have had problems with my patellar tendon for years (jumper's knee). I can tell you from experience that it's very hard to get any real push. It's also very difficult to bend your knees properly, which leads to improper posture and off balance, which is obviously bad for a tackle. For his to be bad enough to warrant surgery, that's a helluva task to play with it.

http://i.imgur.com/Ck6cp.jpg

ChampionTexan
03-19-2013, 04:59 PM
Any idea why surgery was delayed after season was over?

Most likely to try to allow some of the inflammatory tissue changes from the continued trauma to decrease in the knee.

Does anyone really know exactly when the surgery took place?

The first thing I saw regarding the surgery was a report dated 3/7 indicating it had happened "In February". That could be anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 weeks after the season was over. 8 weeks would definitely make you question it - 4 weeks not so much.

badboy
03-19-2013, 05:15 PM
Harris isn't currently on the team. Latest I heard on him:

@NickScurfield
Kubiak said #Texans “still very interested in” FA T Ryan Harris, & "there’s an opportunity for (Tim) Dobbins hopefully to come back."As I noted in post 5 possible re-sign.

badboy
03-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Most likely to try to allow some of the inflammatory tissue changes from the continued trauma to decrease in the knee.From a medical standpoint, is this type of thing a danger to player's career or is it something that if he plays on it, the new damage if any will be correctable by surgery in most cases (not looking at Newton only but all?

badboy
03-19-2013, 05:22 PM
Does anyone really know exactly when the surgery took place?

The first thing I saw regarding the surgery was a report dated 3/7 indicating it had happened "In February". That could be anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 weeks after the season was over. 8 weeks would definitely make you question it - 4 weeks not so much.exactly where I was heading. Of course Newton could have delayed it also.

Imatexanfan
03-19-2013, 05:32 PM
So tryna sign Eric Winston don't sound all that bad now..

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 05:49 PM
From a medical standpoint, is this type of thing a danger to player's career or is it something that if he plays on it, the new damage if any will be correctable by surgery in most cases (not looking at Newton only but all?

Because of the chronicity of the injury, he would have most likely undergone a total graft replacement of the patellar tendon. If he is able to return to play and regain most of his range of motion and strength, there is a very good chance that he could still have a long career. I don't expect that we will know for sure which direction it really takes before mid season.

We don't know for sure if he had any cartilage or other ligament damage/repair, which would make recovery/prognosis that much more unpredictable.

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 05:56 PM
Disregard.

mussop
03-19-2013, 06:24 PM
We believe in Newton. If he can progress off what he did last season, he’s on his way to being a good player.”

This is what I have been saying about Derek. Most of our problem came from RG not RT. If Newton had not been injured or was 100% by preseason, I think Gary would go with Gardner as the backup swing. I think Harris is a possible re-sign but he needs to step up if his back allows him. This should allow those mocking an OT in top 3 rounds to go different direction.

Did you not read the first half of that paragraph?

“That’s a concern. If Newton’s going to miss a portion of the offseason. If we started OTAs today (Andrew) Gardner would line up opposite Duane. It’s something we’ve got to continue to look at. Ryan Harris (RT who’s a UFA) played well for us last season, so there’s a possibility we could have him back on our team.

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 08:21 PM
Does anyone really know exactly when the surgery took place?

The first thing I saw regarding the surgery was a report dated 3/7 indicating it had happened "In February". That could be anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 weeks after the season was over. 8 weeks would definitely make you question it - 4 weeks not so much.

My best reconstruction of what might have been going on:

If it were closer to 3-4 weeks delay from his last playing time.............it was probably to try to decrease the local inflammation prior to surgery.

If it were closer to 5-8 weeks........you've got to be thinking that they were still trying to conservatively rehab to avoid surgery........found that it wasn't working out well........and rather than continuing to hope misguidedly for a successful outcome, thought we better cease trying that route before he still ends up needing to go to surgery........and it ends up too late to make him a usefull 2013 body.

steelbtexan
03-19-2013, 10:59 PM
My best reconstruction of what might have been going on:

If it were closer to 3-4 weeks delay from his last playing time.............it was probably to try to decrease the local inflammation prior to surgery.

If it were closer to 5-8 weeks........you've got to be thinking that they were still trying to conservatively rehab to avoid surgery........found that it wasn't working out well........and rather than continuing to hope misguidedly for a successful outcome, thought we better cease trying that route before he still ends up needing to go to surgery........and it ends up too late to make him a usefull 2013 body.

With the Texans medical staffs history, this is entirely possible.

steelbtexan
03-19-2013, 11:00 PM
Anybody here how Brooks Reed's surgery went?

GP
03-20-2013, 01:14 AM
So tryna sign Eric Winston don't sound all that bad now..

Absolutely.

Sign him and be done with it, we need the run blocking he provides. Then IF Newton makes it back, he can play G and keep Winston at T. I'd be all over that type of setup, tbh.

LT--Brown
LG--Jones and the rest of the goons
C--Myers
RG--Newton and rest of the goons
RT--Caveman

Done. Cross off OL from the "need" list and address S, LB, and WR in the first three rounds.

Insideop
03-20-2013, 09:02 AM
My best reconstruction of what might have been going on:

If it were closer to 3-4 weeks delay from his last playing time.............it was probably to try to decrease the local inflammation prior to surgery.

If it were closer to 5-8 weeks........you've got to be thinking that they were still trying to conservatively rehab to avoid surgery........found that it wasn't working out well........and rather than continuing to hope misguidedly for a successful outcome, thought we better cease trying that route before he still ends up needing to go to surgery........and it ends up too late to make him a usefull 2013 body.

So Doc, with a successful surgery and no other complications, best guess, how long is a normal recovery for this type of operation? The way you're describing this, he may not see the field for half the season! That could change the Texans draft/FA strategy a bit if they need a good RT.

Insideop
03-20-2013, 09:13 AM
Absolutely.

Sign him and be done with it, we need the run blocking he provides. Then IF Newton makes it back, he can play G and keep Winston at T. I'd be all over that type of setup, tbh.

LT--Brown
LG--Jones and the rest of the goons
C--Myers
RG--Newton and rest of the goons
RT--Caveman

Done. Cross off OL from the "need" list and address S, LB, and WR in the first three rounds.

If they are going to sign him it's going to take some luck and they will have to "wait out the market" so to speak. Texans can't sign him for the big $$$ he wants, and is probably looking for right now, so they will have to wait and hope no one else offers him a big deal. I don't think they would want a long term deal either since they are trying to free up money for signing Cush and Watt in the next couple of years. If, and it's a big IF, they can get him cheap for a year or 2, then I think they will do it. Otherwise, I think they look somewhere else.

steelbtexan
03-20-2013, 09:27 AM
If they are going to sign him it's going to take some luck and they will have to "wait out the market" so to speak. Texans can't sign him for the big $$$ he wants, and is probably looking for right now, so they will have to wait and hope no one else offers him a big deal. I don't think they would want a long term deal either since they are trying to free up money for signing Cush and Watt in the next couple of years. If, and it's a big IF, they can get him cheap for a year or 2, then I think they will do it. Otherwise, I think they look somewhere else.

Does anbody else get the feeling that football isn't all that important to Winston, in addition to him being a bit of a clubhouse lawyer. I think it's time to move on from Winston. The draft is full of up and coming OT's, re-sign Harris, hopefully Newton will make it back. This is the cheaper way to go also.

House of Pain
03-20-2013, 01:00 PM
Does anbody else get the feeling that football isn't all that important to Winston, in addition to him being a bit of a clubhouse lawyer. I think it's time to move on from Winston. The draft is full of up and coming OT's, re-sign Harris, hopefully Newton will make it back. This is the cheaper way to go also.

Unless Winston is a one-year stop-gap signing, I completely agree with you. Everyone has a tendency to look back on Winston's time here and forget he had his issues in pass protection. Now, the line has worsened (IMO with Wade Smith's rotting corpse on the left side) and Winston isn't getting any younger.

Winston is not the long term answer on the right side of the line, but he's better than anything we have at the moment.

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2013, 03:41 PM
So Doc, with a successful surgery and no other complications, best guess, how long is a normal recovery for this type of operation? The way you're describing this, he may not see the field for half the season! That could change the Texans draft/FA strategy a bit if they need a good RT.


You might remember Cushing had patellar tendon surgery in Jan of 2011 and was not ready for the field until August. Return to play for isolated patellar tendon rupture is usually around 6 months. As is common sense, it takes more time than that for return to "close to" preinjury performance if it is going to be attainable. Recovery for "big men" like Newton would tend to be more difficult.
Remember in the study I quoted, 19 of 24 returned to play in the NFL. Also remember that 1 of the those 19 returned only for ONE game........so you could technically say that 1 out of 4 players never came back to play. Like I said before, the Texans better not let themselves be blind-sided by taking anything for granted re. Newton's presence in 2013.

SW H-TOWN
03-20-2013, 03:52 PM
You might remember Cushing had patellar tendon surgery in Jan of 2011 and was not ready for the field until August. Return to play for isolated patellar tendon rupture is usually around 6 months. As is common sense, it takes more time than that for return to "close to" preinjury performance if it is going to be attainable. Recovery for "big men" like Newton would tend to be more difficult.
Remember in the study I quoted, 19 of 24 returned to play in the NFL. Also remember that 1 of the those 19 returned only for ONE game........so you could technically say that 1 out of 4 players never came back to play. Like I said before, the Texans better not let themselves be blind-sided by taking anything for granted re. Newton's presence in 2013.

We have both our starting ILB coming off season ending injury and it does not seem that we are too interested in signing a FA ILB. I would be really surprised if we don't draft an ILB in the first two rounds. Will also be interesting to see what we do at RT because of Newton's surgery, especially if we don't resign Harris. We have take care of 2 of these positions in FA because as of now we have too many holes...S, ILB, RT, NT, WR.

Insideop
03-21-2013, 12:31 AM
We have both our starting ILB coming off season ending injury and it does not seem that we are too interested in signing a FA ILB. I would be really surprised if we don't draft an ILB in the first two rounds. Will also be interesting to see what we do at RT because of Newton's surgery, especially if we don't resign Harris. We have take care of 2 of these positions in FA because as of now we have too many holes...S, ILB, RT, NT, WR.

Well, scratch Safety from the list. They just signed Ed Reed! Although, I do think they will still draft one in the mid rounds to learn under Reed and Manning. That leaves ILB, RT, NT, and WR. I think they will cover these in the Draft. Out of those positions I think WR is needed most, then either RT or ILB. But, with the injuries at both positions, we will have to get at least 1 at each spot for depth. Another major injury at any of those 4 positions could be the end of the season if they don't cover these in the Draft early. And, it just so happens the Texans have 4 picks in the top 100!