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View Full Version : HOU intrested in FA OLB Dumervil


srrono
03-16-2013, 09:19 PM
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10892

Texans, Ravens, Lions, and Patriots have been linked to Dumervil.

the wonger need food
03-16-2013, 09:28 PM
Where have these reports surfaced? If that can't afford to give Reed $6M they won't be able to give Elvis the $10M+ he'll likely be looking for.

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2013, 09:30 PM
Where have these reports surfaced? If that can't afford to give Reed $6M they won't be able to give Elvis the $10M+ he'll likely be looking for.

I'm interested in Dumervil........but I can't afford him either.:)

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 09:33 PM
If Smith could somehow convince both Dumerville and Reed to sign on the dotted lines it do much towards some people believing in his ability. This is a scenario that would legitimize the seriousness of this front office in noticing the window and pulling the trigger.

No one expects it, other GM's among last years playoff teams are making their squads noticeably better and making HUGE splashes - this is Smith's chance to show he belongs.

These two guys on a defense with Watt,JJo,KJax and Cush is downright nasty.

I dont care how much of Bobby Mac's money gets spent on a "luxury tax" (scary) if it brings a motherlovin' Lombardi trophy to this city. Show us you mean buisness, you guys have made a killing with this team in the 10 years you have had it, spend a little. Whatever the luxury tax is if anyone can afford it, Robert McNair can. Sixth (or so) most valuable franchise in ALL OF SPORTS according to Forbe's isnt it?

Nawzer
03-16-2013, 09:35 PM
Not going to happen.

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 09:37 PM
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.

Texanmike02
03-16-2013, 09:38 PM
If Smith could somehow convince both Dumerville and Reed to sign on the dotted lines it do much towards some people believing in his ability. This is a scenario that would legitimize the seriousness of this front office in noticing the window and pulling the trigger.

No one expects it, other GM's among last years playoff teams are making their squads noticeably better and making HUGE splashes - this is Smith's chance to show he belongs.

These two guys on a defense with Watt,JJo,KJax and Cush is downright nasty.

I dont care how much of Bobby Mac's money gets spent on a "luxury tax" (scary) if it brings a motherlovin' Lombardi trophy to this city. Show us you mean buisness, you guys have made a killing with this team in the 10 years you have had it, spend a little. Whatever the luxury tax is if anyone can afford it, Robert McNair can. Sixth (or so) most valuable franchise in ALL OF SPORTS according to Forbe's isnt it?

You know, that sounds nice but this team got remarkably better and only added two "splashes". Prior to JJoe Smith was the biggest FA we had ever signed. Draft well, keep drafting well and get RID of your players when their prices extend beyond their usefulness. See the Pats and Pitt.

Mike

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 09:40 PM
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.

That was a one time deal in the "uncapped year." Ordinarily the NFL has a hard cap. Dutchrudder can explain it in full detail (he has recently so you might search his posts) but it wasn't a luxury tax so much as a penalty.

Where have these reports surfaced? If that can't afford to give Reed $6M they won't be able to give Elvis the $10M+ he'll likely be looking for.

Nobody has said the Texans can't afford to give Reed $6 mil. In addition folks continue to confuse average over the life of a contract with cap hit. Miami has signed like 7 players to over $120 mil in contracts and only $12.5 or so will be on this year's cap. Contracts almost never hit the cap evenly according to the average.

Also the highest paid pass rusher this year has gotten a contract averaging $7.5 mil.

the wonger need food
03-16-2013, 09:44 PM
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 09:49 PM
Okay. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Depresses me more about Rick Smith's ability. Thanks!

the wonger need food
03-16-2013, 09:51 PM
Yeah, I think we all have a rough understanding of cap numbers v. actual dollars a player is paid. My point was more a statement to the Texans reluctance to pay anyone at this point. I'm sure there's a plan in place but it seems like they're content with filling the holes with rookies and maybe some vet minimum guys.

texan279
03-16-2013, 09:54 PM
"Elvis Dumervil is free to test the market, shop around and try finding a team that will make a better multi-year commitment to him than the Denver Broncos were proposing before they cut him.

But Dumervil would prefer to skip all of that and return to the team that drafted him."



"The person, who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because Dumervil hasn't publicly spoken about his release, said Dumervil's firing his agent, Marty Magid, on Saturday was motivated by his desire to patch up the situation with the Broncos."



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/16/elvis-dumervil-would-like-to-remain-with-denver-broncos/1993441/

the wonger need food
03-16-2013, 09:55 PM
It's not all bad... they have essentially zero dead money against the cap this year.

And Chris Olsen negotiates the contracts so he would deserve most of the blame with regards to how certain contracts are structured. I do believe that Smith is overrated as a GM however. 2 playoff wins in 7 seasons is nothing to get excited about unless you're a Cowboy fan.

GP
03-16-2013, 09:57 PM
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.

Those two teams also forfeited a variety of draft picks...not just a monetary fine, IIRC.

This FO can ask guys to re-structure. They might get Reed or Dumerville, but I don't see them able to get both of them.

leebigeztx
03-16-2013, 09:57 PM
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.

The Pencil Neck
03-16-2013, 09:58 PM
Appreciate the passion, but there's a little thing called the Salary Cap and no such thing as a luxury tax. Dallas and Washington were essentially fined for not colluding with the other owners during the "uncapped" season. The salary cap is essentially a hard number that salaries must remain under.

That's all well and good but if the front office is creative and if other players are willing, they could make it happen. There are all sorts of ways to structure deals and restructure deals to make things happen and stay under the cap.

People act like we're in some sort of cap hell and we're not. We're in more of a cap limbo. There are lots of teams in worse position than we are.

I seriously doubt there's any way that Dumervil is going to come here. But I expect our FO to at least explore the possibility. And if they're good and if Dumervil is interested, they'll find a way to make it happen.

Too bad Dumervil didn't go to the U.

the wonger need food
03-16-2013, 10:04 PM
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.

I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?

leebigeztx
03-16-2013, 10:11 PM
I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?

They could cut antonio and save 4.5m. His salary is 6+m. And his bonus is like 2.75m. They would have the bonus as dead money for 2 yrs unless he's in the last yr. His salary is non guaranteed.

I

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 10:14 PM
I think Antonio's cap number is close to $10M this year and cutting him isn't really an option. Maybe restructure/extend him for 2 years?

Antonio's cap is $9.5. This is the last year of his contract and he could be cut with 6 mil in savings and $3.5 in dead money. Better would be to extend him 2 years with something like:

$1 mil, $3 mil and $4 mil in base salaries with an $8.5 mil signing bonus, i.e. he gets everything promised this year and an extension.

His cap hit would go to $3.83 for a savings of almost 6 mil. Same savings as cutting him and keep the player.

They could cut antonio and save 4.5m. His salary is 6+m. And his bonus is like 2.75m. They would have the bonus as dead money for 2 yrs unless he's in the last yr. His salary is non guaranteed.


Please see above. You clearly just don't like Smith wanting to cut him in every thread. My proposal makes much more sense for the team.

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2013, 10:16 PM
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.



So...what happens if a team goes over the Salary Cap?

Answer: The short answer is simply that NO team CAN go over the Salary Cap. Note that every contract must go through the NFL League Office before the deal can be made official. Presumably, one of the things the league must do at this time is determine whether or not the contract would violate the NFL's Salary Cap. If the deal does violate the cap, then the NFL will reject it.

If a team releases or trades a player and the signing bonus acceleration puts a team over the Salary Cap, the team will have seven days to conform with the Salary Cap. However, they may not sign any players until there is room to do so under the Salary Cap.

There have been instances in which a team has managed to sneak a cap evading contract by the league. Upon further review, the violations were caught by the league and the respective teams were penalized. Penalties include fines and/or forfeiture of draft picks. In recent history both the Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers have been penalized draft picks, while the 49ers' front office personnel (Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark) were also fined.http://www.askthecommish.com/SalaryCap/faq.aspx

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 10:36 PM
Got it. Feel dumb, should have known that.

pec0sb0b
03-16-2013, 10:55 PM
Texans can draft a rookie OLB in the first and get him signed for under 2 million per season (see Mercilus' contract). I doubt they'd offer more than 5 million per season, and I'm sure they're aware how poorly Dumervil plays the run.

beerlover
03-16-2013, 11:27 PM
signing Dumervil would be akin to signing both Manning & Joseph. Elvis has elite first step unlike Barwin. He has ability to create turnovers without sacrificing assignment dedication. Plus it's hell of a lot easier to find replacement for Quin than a Mario. This is a great year for young stud safeties via the draft, not so much for edge rushers.

El Tejano
03-16-2013, 11:30 PM
Crazy thing is a writer once had an article about trading Mario for Dumerville and everyone thought he was crazy.

GP
03-16-2013, 11:40 PM
This could be a feint by the Texans, too.

1. Make some other team overpay for Dumerville

2. Maybe tempts Team Ed Reed to get our deal done out of fear that we'll jump to Dumerville if things drag out too long.

The questions to be answered are:

A.) Will we go after a singular "star" player, or

B.) Try to spread the salary around by going after two players of good, but not "great" player, or

C.) Do nothing and see if anybody else gets released that we catch on the rebound due to a team signing any of the higher priced FA's

Plus, what position do we end up addressing?

Intriguing moments here. This has been a fun free agency, tbh. Much to talk about with a lot of teams and players making moves on a large quantity of players.

beerlover
03-16-2013, 11:51 PM
Texans lacked pass rush even with Barwin. Now that Barwin is gone pass rush is even more important. Sign Dumervil & Texans actually upgrade pass rush. Sign a 1st or 2nd rd safety & there is a good possibility Texans can upgrade there as well. In other words Rick, take the money you would have needed to sign both Barwin & Quin to ink Elvis Dumervil. Simple math even beerlover can do it :wesmantexanfan:

JamesBill
03-16-2013, 11:53 PM
If you can get him, you do whatever you have to in order to get under the cap. with 5 million in dead money, the Broncos cannot pay him what we can. If he is at all willing to come here, you get it done.

TEXANRED
03-16-2013, 11:56 PM
Who needs a FS when you got Dumervil? No need to defend a pass that is never thrown. Mercilus/Dumervil @ OLB with Cushing/Reed ILB? Championship! No sarcasm this time.

Nawzer
03-17-2013, 12:00 AM
This could be a feint by the Texans, too.

1. Make some other team overpay for Dumerville

2. Maybe tempts Team Ed Reed to get our deal done out of fear that we'll jump to Dumerville if things drag out too long.

The questions to be answered are:

A.) Will we go after a singular "star" player, or

B.) Try to spread the salary around by going after two players of good, but not "great" player, or

C.) Do nothing and see if anybody else gets released that we catch on the rebound due to a team signing any of the higher priced FA's

Plus, what position do we end up addressing?

Intriguing moments here. This has been a fun free agency, tbh. Much to talk about with a lot of teams and players making moves on a large quantity of players.

You give this FO way too much credit. Secondly, this is not the type of team that goes after high profile guys even if it's a area of need. The only reason why we ever pursued and signed JJo and Manning was because we were historically bad and it finally went through their heads that there's something amiss here and we should actually do something for a change!

The Pencil Neck
03-17-2013, 12:03 AM
Who needs a FS when you got Dumervil? No need to defend a pass that is never thrown. Mercilus/Dumervil @ OLB with Cushing/Reed ILB? Championship! No sarcasm this time.

Mercilus and Dumervil on the edge is good against the pass, but it scares me against the run. And I want to see Reed play ILB before I anoint him as our ILB savior.

steelbtexan
03-17-2013, 12:07 AM
He was willing to do basically 1yr for 8m with denver. The texans could offer a deal that avg 7m,but with more g-money. 5yr 35m with 17m g. They could give him 3.5m bonus this yr and a 2m salary. The rest would be in incentives. They could then cut antonio smith and his 6.5m salary.

It can be done

TEXANRED
03-17-2013, 12:08 AM
Mercilus and Dumervil on the edge is good against the pass, but it scares me against the run. And I want to see Reed play ILB before I anoint him as our ILB savior.

I don't think a defense of Watt, Smith, Dumervil, and Mercilus would give the offense an opportunity to be in running downs. Besides, Cushing and Reed play the run well enough to be effective.

Just a Madden dream anyway.

Brisco_County
03-17-2013, 12:28 AM
Dumervil will go back to Denver. He had a contract worked out already. A technical invalidation is no reason for him to leave home.

infantrycak
03-17-2013, 12:37 AM
Dumervil will go back to Denver. He had a contract worked out already. A technical invalidation is no reason for him to leave home.

There is a huge reason why that won't work out unless Denver wants to sign him to a new multi year deal. Denver now has just under $5 mil in dead money and only wanted to pay Dumervil $8 mil. You think Dumervil is going to play for $3 mil when he can get a lot more elsewhere?

leebigeztx
03-17-2013, 12:53 AM
Antonio's cap is $9.5. This is the last year of his contract and he could be cut with 6 mil in savings and $3.5 in dead money. Better would be to extend him 2 years with something like:

$1 mil, $3 mil and $4 mil in base salaries with an $8.5 mil signing bonus, i.e. he gets everything promised this year and an extension.

His cap hit would go to $3.83 for a savings of almost 6 mil. Same savings as cutting him and keep the player.



Please see above. You clearly just don't like Smith wanting to cut him in every thread. My proposal makes much more sense for the team.

Or maybe I watched teams (pats,colts,packers) block watt and work the secondary like old main st. JJ had what, half the teams sacks? Antonio is a solid player, dummerville is a all pro,pro bowl caliber player. Not only that,he's younger and he knocks the qb down. He improves your secondary big time. You take smith money and give it to the better player.

GP
03-17-2013, 01:42 AM
You give this FO way too much credit. Secondly, this is not the type of team that goes after high profile guys even if it's a area of need. The only reason why we ever pursued and signed JJo and Manning was because we were historically bad and it finally went through their heads that there's something amiss here and we should actually do something for a change!

No, you guys think that because we never hear the inside details of our FO's plans and how the FA system has a million moving, fluid parts to it, then it must mean the FO are boobs.

Seriously, once again you're proving my point: Fans don't know what goes on in a FO leading up to the FA period and even during the FA period.

Just because something doesn't go the way you think it should go, it doesn't mean the FO screwed the pooch.

To you, the FO gets players by blind luck and misses out on the player they really wanted. Sure, our primary target was Aso but there was a Plan B and the FO switched gears. Still have to give credit to the FO for not being stubborn like the HC has proven to be his whole time here. That's why Rick > Gary...one guy has ability to adjust, the other doesn't.

Rey
03-17-2013, 02:41 AM
Fuq yeah!

That's what I'm talking about. A real damn edge rusher. If we get dummervile I'd be ridiculously pleased. Leave reed on the strong side.

Corrosion
03-17-2013, 03:08 AM
After my rant, I'd like to ask someone who understands the cap more than me to explain the ramifications of going over it. I've heard 'hard cap' which i thought meant 'cant go over it' and then some people say that Dallas and WAshington are paying luxury taxes for going over the said 'hard cap'. Im a little confused. If YOU CAN go over a cap I think the Texans should for at least this year with whats available right this minute.

There is no going over the salary cap in the NFL like the NBA where you have the soft cap and luxury tax. The NFL's cap is a hard cap.

There are two dates - one around training camp which your top 45 (I believe thats the number) salaries must fit under the cap and the final cut off date where your entire 53 man roster has to fit under the cap.


The uncapped year is what Dallas and Washington were penalized for. That uncapped year wasnt really uncapped from what I understand.


Cak is right , search Dutchrudder's post history .... He can answer these questions with more clarity. I understand them , just have a hard time explaining it all , remembering dates and numbers. But the bottom line is : There is no luxury tax! There is no exceeding the cap!

the wonger need food
03-17-2013, 03:10 AM
Fuq yeah!

That's what I'm talking about. A real damn edge rusher. If we get dummervile I'd be ridiculously pleased. Leave reed on the strong side.

Or move Reed inside and rotate him with Mercilus/Dumervil in the nickel/dime package.

Corrosion
03-17-2013, 03:25 AM
Or move Reed inside and rotate him with Mercilus/Dumervil in the nickel/dime package.

Im really wondering what the nickle front looks like going forward , last year we saw a lot of Ninja and Watt inside of Barwin and Reed at the ends.

If Reed moved inside they could have Dumervil and Mercilus outside on passing downs and a rotation of the three as ends on passing downs .... and have Braman for depth.

Still leaves a pretty big hole in the middle of the DL in the three man front and .... a glaring hole in the ass end.
Ive heard rumor that they intend to play Mitchell at the nose with Crick as his primary backup. I have no source to link to so take it for what its worth.

Dumervil and a veteran safety and the defense might just be ok .... tho you'd have to add some depth at DE , ILB and OLB as one injury could make a mess of the whole thing.

Rey
03-17-2013, 03:35 AM
Or move Reed inside and rotate him with Mercilus/Dumervil in the nickel/dime package.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of merciless starting and I don't lime reed at ilb full time. I'd rather have barett Ruud at ilb and have reed holding down the solb spot. Reed is not a great pass rusher but he is really good in the flats in pass coverage and hes really good setting the edge against the run. Solb is the perfect spot for him IMO.

Brisco_County
03-17-2013, 04:49 AM
There is a huge reason why that won't work out unless Denver wants to sign him to a new multi year deal. Denver now has just under $5 mil in dead money and only wanted to pay Dumervil $8 mil. You think Dumervil is going to play for $3 mil when he can get a lot more elsewhere?

A multi year deal will work as long as the guaranteed money is satisfactory. The guaranteed would be the selling point anyway for a guy with injury history.

Edit: Ok, I just re-read the details. He was willing to take a cut, but now the cut is impossible. Holy crap, what a screw up.

ASidd_1990
03-17-2013, 04:53 AM
Do we even have the capspace for him?

EllisUnit
03-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Yeah, I'm not a fan of merciless starting and I don't lime reed at ilb full time. I'd rather have barett Ruud at ilb and have reed holding down the solb spot. Reed is not a great pass rusher but he is really good in the flats in pass coverage and hes really good setting the edge against the run. Solb is the perfect spot for him IMO.

Agree I don't think rid gets enough credit but he played pretty damn good for us last year. Cushing and ruud inside and reed and Whitney/draft on the outside.

Rudd was also pretty good in coverage I hope they give him a shot beside cushing

ralph
03-17-2013, 10:40 AM
Too bad Dumervil didn't go to the U.

He's from Miami, which is something.

Wolf
03-17-2013, 10:45 AM
Potential places

Nfl.com mentions buffalo,new england,Tampa,miami, and Denver

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151273/article/elvis-dumervil-five-potential-nfl-landing-spots?campaign=Facebook_atl_sessler

Wolf
03-17-2013, 10:53 AM
Titans and Ravens too
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151292/article/elvis-dumervil-looked-at-by-ravens-patriots-titans

I havent heard a word on the Texans on anybody

Nawzer
03-17-2013, 02:28 PM
No, you guys think that because we never hear the inside details of our FO's plans and how the FA system has a million moving, fluid parts to it, then it must mean the FO are boobs.

Seriously, once again you're proving my point: Fans don't know what goes on in a FO leading up to the FA period and even during the FA period.

Just because something doesn't go the way you think it should go, it doesn't mean the FO screwed the pooch.

To you, the FO gets players by blind luck and misses out on the player they really wanted. Sure, our primary target was Aso but there was a Plan B and the FO switched gears. Still have to give credit to the FO for not being stubborn like the HC has proven to be his whole time here. That's why Rick > Gary...one guy has ability to adjust, the other doesn't.

Not convinced. This FO has made some good moves no doubt with signing JJo and Manning and then drafting guys like Cushing and Watt. My point was, and I think you missed it, was that this FO is not known for making bold moves. As I said before, it took a historically bad season for them to realize that we need some new talent on defense. We have a need at another quality pass rusher out there and if it means overpaying for a guy like Dumervil then so be it. This defense absolutely needs a great pass rush to succeed and it would somewhat negate the need to sign a high priced safety.

michaelm
03-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Not convinced. This FO has made some good moves no doubt with signing JJo and Manning and then drafting guys like Cushing and Watt. My point was, and I think you missed it, was that this FO is not known for making bold moves. As I said before, it took a historically bad season for them to realize that we need some new talent on defense. We have a need at another quality pass rusher out there and if it means overpaying for a guy like Dumervil then so be it. This defense absolutely needs a great pass rush to succeed and it would somewhat negate the need to sign a high priced safety.

The bolded why I'm on board with making Dumervil the only FA I would pay above market value for. This defense needs a real pass rushing threat on the outside.

b0ng
03-19-2013, 02:14 PM
The bolded why I'm on board with making Dumervil the only FA I would pay above market value for. This defense needs a real pass rushing threat on the outside.

Unfortunately, I think most of us know that the Texans aren't going to be the team that does that. We'll see whether that's a good thing or a bad thing in about 6 months.

GP
03-19-2013, 02:27 PM
Not convinced. This FO has made some good moves no doubt with signing JJo and Manning and then drafting guys like Cushing and Watt. My point was, and I think you missed it, was that this FO is not known for making bold moves. As I said before, it took a historically bad season for them to realize that we need some new talent on defense. We have a need at another quality pass rusher out there and if it means overpaying for a guy like Dumervil then so be it. This defense absolutely needs a great pass rush to succeed and it would somewhat negate the need to sign a high priced safety.

Psssst! I have a secret for you: Sometimes, when you're forced to make "drastic moves" you don't normally make, many things can happen....

1. You pay for those risk-taking decisions, and whether you miss the playoffs or you exit in the divisional round, the bill comes due all the same.

2. You can learn from it. Oh, gee, we better offer Ed Reed an avg. of $5 million per year, and stick to it, to stay under the cap and afford other moves too.

You're hung up on 2010 and prior. Who cares what forced us to be AFC South champs and divisional round playoff teams two years in a row, the fact is the bill comes due. What do you rather have had happened after 2010--Stink via staying $20 million under the cap and finishing with 3-13 records the past two years, or to have a triumvirate of decision makers in Bob, Gary, and Rick who pushed the envelope in 2012?

I just don't get it. I'm the grumpiest Texans fan on here other than Hervoyel and even I can see that the front office and owner have done a much better job in 2011 and 2012 than any year prior.

The bill is due, we're making our minimum monthly payments, and trying to figure out on what items we spend our credit line upon. Life is normal, and we had two good years to show for it. And maybe a third yet to come.

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2013, 02:32 PM
Just an FWI, Pat Kirwan, in an interview on 610, stated that with Schaub at the helm, he expects the Texans to be a Wildcard type of team.

EDIT: Meant to post this in Schaub thread..

michaelm
03-19-2013, 02:38 PM
Unfortunately, I think most of us know that the Texans aren't going to be the team that does that.

Unfortunately, I agree with this 100%.

76Texan
03-19-2013, 03:22 PM
Psssst! I have a secret for you: Sometimes, when you're forced to make "drastic moves" you don't normally make, many things can happen....

1. You pay for those risk-taking decisions, and whether you miss the playoffs or you exit in the divisional round, the bill comes due all the same.

2. You can learn from it. Oh, gee, we better offer Ed Reed an avg. of $5 million per year, and stick to it, to stay under the cap and afford other moves too.

You're hung up on 2010 and prior. Who cares what forced us to be AFC South champs and divisional round playoff teams two years in a row, the fact is the bill comes due. What do you rather have had happened after 2010--Stink via staying $20 million under the cap and finishing with 3-13 records the past two years, or to have a triumvirate of decision makers in Bob, Gary, and Rick who pushed the envelope in 2012?

I just don't get it. I'm the grumpiest Texans fan on here other than Hervoyel and even I can see that the front office and owner have done a much better job in 2011 and 2012 than any year prior.

The bill is due, we're making our minimum monthly payments, and trying to figure out on what items we spend our credit line upon. Life is normal, and we had two good years to show for it. And maybe a third yet to come.

I don't think many people here ever said that Rick Smith is a genius.
Most probably, it would be along the line of "solid".

Even the OP uses the term "looking more like".

The things I hope people realize that the Texans have been maxing out the cap (Bob is never cheap).

Some team "sorta" tanked a year here and there to both build up their cap space to buy FAs as well as better slots in the draft.

Each team is in a unique position from year to year; one has to really dig deep to see what was going on.

Some coaches and GMs walked into a better situation than others.

It's by no mean a declaration that Rick Smith is great as a GM, or Kubiak is a great coach, nor a 360 reversal.

Just that we need to adjust our expectation accordingly to each unique situation.

To expect a runner to spot 2-3-4-5 yards to another and criticize that he didn't get to the finish line at the same time doesn't make sense.

GP
03-19-2013, 03:53 PM
Just an FWI, Pat Kirwan, in an interview on 610, stated that with Schaub at the helm, he expects the Texans to be a Wildcard type of team.

EDIT: Meant to post this in Schaub thread..

And I agree with Kirwan's analysis.

I think all I want to ask people is this:

Let's say you have three guys in the control room, and there's a lever labeled "Matt Schaub Contract After One Game in 2012." Somebody might have pulled that lever, but which of the three guys do we think ordered the lever to be pulled, and which guy convinced the other two guys it needed to be pulled?

I've got the GM pulling the lever, but he doesn't unilaterally make that call. You've got a guy telling the GM to pull that lever (hint: he's one of two guys who are quick to be too loyal to favored players) and another guy who likely championed the act of pulling the lever (and he'd be the second of two guys who has a loyalty issue).

I see nowhere in Rick Smith's DNA as a GM during his time here that allows Rick to give a damn about any player at any time. The ones making their shopping lists don't always respect the budgets that the person who keeps the books has to find a way to make it all work.

In consideration of what we've always discussed in terms of consistent issues of certain decision makers being too loyal to players and coaches, I find it odd that the GM is zeroed in on, it's somehow his fault that we're cap-strapped all of a sudden.

Worst job out there, IMO, to have to please the owner in terms of managing those ever-fluctuating expenses (and the sheer lunacy of how the NFL hides the actual cap amount for so long from the GMs, making it hard to prepare ahead of time). Also, a GM has to help the coaches stock the roster with thousands of moving parts involved.

Being a GM has to be the next hardest NFL job outside of the guy who washes all the jock straps and pants and jerseys after a game.

I think Rick Smith has done as good of a job with what he's had to work with as anybody else would have. I think Gary and Bob lack long distance vision, actually. Put our GM under a seasoned owner and laser- focused head coach, the real visionary and way-out-front leaders you think of when you think of high quality franchises, I think Rick Smith soars and does extremely well.

He's a part if the trio of people who make the decisions, but I think he's living more in reality than Bob and Gary are. I think he holds it together, honestly.

GP
03-19-2013, 04:01 PM
I don't think many people here ever said that Rick Smith is a genius.
Most probably, it would be along the line of "solid".

Even the OP uses the term "looking more like".

The things I hope people realize that the Texans have been maxing out the cap (Bob is never cheap).

Some team "sorta" tanked a year here and there to both build up their cap space to buy FAs as well as better slots in the draft.

Each team is in a unique position from year to year; one has to really dig deep to see what was going on.

Some coaches and GMs walked into a better situation than others.

It's by no mean a declaration that Rick Smith is great as a GM, or Kubiak is a great coach, nor a 360 reversal.

Just that we need to adjust our expectation accordingly to each unique situation.

To expect a runner to spot 2-3-4-5 yards to another and criticize that he didn't get to the finish line at the same time doesn't make sense.

I think the way the NFL didn't release what the cap figure would be, for as long as they held out on the release of that info, sucks for all teams who weren't already a bazillion dollars under the cap.

A cap should be announced way in advance. Practically, the cap should be known for 3 or even 4 years in advance.

I want to know what number I have to stay within, and do my own speculative calculations as to making as good of an educated guess as I can in regards to how salaries will increase/inflate over that period.

Instead, we've got a league who holds out on that until almost the last minute. I think the CBA played a part, for sure, and I know or expect cap figures are impacted maybe by annual revenue blah blah blah....still, teams have to know what to expect.

Is there any other major pro sports league that has as complicated and sometimes borderline crazy financial structure as the NFL? Try to get even the most well-educated, most in-the-loop NFL person to say with certainty how all the cap figures are determined and accounted for.....few even agree in one another's figures!

Corrosion
03-19-2013, 06:32 PM
Just an FWI, Pat Kirwan, in an interview on 610, stated that with Schaub at the helm, he expects the Texans to be a Wildcard type of team.

EDIT: Meant to post this in Schaub thread..

Just an FWI, Pat Kirwan, in an interview on 610, stated that with Schaub at the helm, he expects the Texans to be a Wildcard type of team.

EDIT: Meant to post this in Schaub thread..




Im not sold on Schaub ever being the guy he was prior to injury ... but I think this team is still the best in its division. Tho winning the division is no guarantee you dont play in the wildcard round.


Its my hope that they can replace Schaub with a comepetent guy after this coming season .... and the team doesnt take a nosedive record wise. His mobility was never good and its been worse since the lisfranc - add that to his other deficiencies and its time to hitch your wagon to someone.

dalemurphy
03-19-2013, 06:39 PM
Just an FWI, Pat Kirwan, in an interview on 610, stated that with Schaub at the helm, he expects the Texans to be a Wildcard type of team.

EDIT: Meant to post this in Schaub thread..

First, I love Pat Kirwin's show. Second, he may be right. However, one thing about Kirwin is that his football relationships have a dramatic effect on his assessment of NFL organizations. Since he has little/no relationship with the Texans, he will usually have a negative bias. I don't think it's intentional.

For instance, he will blush over a team with Dick Jauron as coach.

76Texan
03-19-2013, 06:58 PM
I think the way the NFL didn't release what the cap figure would be, for as long as they held out on the release of that info, sucks for all teams who weren't already a bazillion dollars under the cap.

A cap should be announced way in advance. Practically, the cap should be known for 3 or even 4 years in advance.

I want to know what number I have to stay within, and do my own speculative calculations as to making as good of an educated guess as I can in regards to how salaries will increase/inflate over that period.

Instead, we've got a league who holds out on that until almost the last minute. I think the CBA played a part, for sure, and I know or expect cap figures are impacted maybe by annual revenue blah blah blah....still, teams have to know what to expect.

Is there any other major pro sports league that has as complicated and sometimes borderline crazy financial structure as the NFL? Try to get even the most well-educated, most in-the-loop NFL person to say with certainty how all the cap figures are determined and accounted for.....few even agree in one another's figures!Agree!

This game is so challenging in so many different aspects.
But perhaps, that's why it's intriguing.
Darn sure it's complex and intriguing than anything I've ever known.
The more you look into it, the deeper you get into a maze, LOL!

SW H-TOWN
03-19-2013, 07:05 PM
Dumervil could not make it to the Kinko's on time, true story. Searching desperately for a Kinko's somewhere in Miami to fax a restructured contract, gets me every time.

76Texan
03-20-2013, 12:34 AM
Broncos had officially sent Dumervil an offer sheet.
Does that mean that the Texans are out of the loop?

SAMURAITEXAN
03-20-2013, 12:55 AM
Broncos had officially sent Dumervil an offer sheet.
Does that mean that the Texans are out of the loop?

Texans is rumor to be interested in Dumervil. But, were we really in the mix of negotiation with Dumervil to begin with? Seems me like just interested and nothing more at the moment.

The Pencil Neck
03-20-2013, 10:55 AM
Texans is rumor to be interested in Dumervil. But, were we really in the mix of negotiation with Dumervil to begin with? Seems me like just interested and nothing more at the moment.

I don't think we've heard any credible source saying that we're interested. I don't think we've done any more than take a sniff like probably most of the teams in the league. There are only a few real suitors for him and I don't think we're one of them.

76Texan
03-20-2013, 11:01 AM
The Denver Post reported that the offer is in-line with the revised offer that he accepted.

That's for an average of $10M a year.
Even if Dumervil agrees to split the difference of the nearly $5 cap loss, it would still require more than $9M per.

I don't see how the Texans can afford that.

Playoffs
03-20-2013, 11:03 AM
I don't see how the Texans can afford that.
They cannot. Too many obligations in the future we must consider.

Doppelganger
03-20-2013, 11:10 AM
I don't think we've heard any credible source saying that we're interested. I don't think we've done any more than take a sniff like probably most of the teams in the league. There are only a few real suitors for him and I don't think we're one of them.

To be honest, Dumervill is a high level pass rusher. Every team in the NFL SHOULD be interested in trying to get him. Whether they can is of course another issue.

ChampionTexan
03-20-2013, 11:16 AM
The Denver Post reported that the offer is in-line with the revised offer that he accepted.

That's for an average of $10M a year.
Even if Dumervil agrees to split the difference of the nearly $5 cap loss, it would still require more than $9M per.

I don't see how the Texans can afford that.

Unless they've reported something new since last night (and I can't see they have), it does not appear they are offering him $10 Million/year.
Elway would not get into details about the team's new proposal, but the expectation was it would be three years in length for considerably less than the $30 million value of his original contract.

Denver Post Link (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22823936/elvis-dumervil-broncos-negotiating-ravens-remain-picture)

76Texan
03-20-2013, 11:19 AM
To be honest, Dumervill is a high level pass rusher. Every team in the NFL SHOULD be interested in trying to get him. Whether they can is of course another issue.

In theory, they still can.
If they believe that with another year under their belts, either Crick or Jamison can replace Antonio, they can restructure AJ's contract to make room for Dumervil.
I'm not comfortable with anything more than $8M per though.

76Texan
03-20-2013, 11:23 AM
Unless they've reported something new since last night (and I can't see they have), it does not appear they are offering him $10 Million/year.


Denver Post Link (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22823936/elvis-dumervil-broncos-negotiating-ravens-remain-picture)

That's the exact piece that I read yesterday.
Looks like it was updated to correct the typo (or incorrect info.)

TexanSam
03-20-2013, 11:23 AM
In theory, they still can.
If they believe that with another year under their belts, either Crick or Jamison can replace Antonio, they can restructure AJ's contract to make room for Dumervil.
I'm not comfortable with anything more than $8M per though.

But then they have to take into consideration re-signing Cushing next season and Watt the year after. The Texans aren't in terrible position cap wise, but they can't be aggressive or they risk losing out on their own guys in the future.

76Texan
03-20-2013, 11:29 AM
But then they have to take into consideration re-signing Cushing next season and Watt the year after. The Texans aren't in terrible position cap wise, but they can't be aggressive or they risk losing out on their own guys in the future.

If they pay Dumervil between $7-8M per year, they should be able to work out the cap space.

Cushing is going to count nearly $5M this year; an extension can't be a whole lot more than that.

Smith counts something like $9.5M this year already.
That cap space can accommodate Dumervil's and at least some of Cushing's raise (maybe all of it) next year.

And then there's the portion that we slotted if we were to resign Barwin.