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ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks
Hearing a lot of buzz about the Lions and safety Glover Quin. Tomorrow could be an active day for Martin Mayhew.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/311309181565169665

Losing Quin would be a big blow to our secondary. Hope management keeps him at all costs.

Thoughts?

Lucky
03-11-2013, 11:12 PM
The Lions don't have a lot of cap room (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap-hit/). What is this guy talking about?

All costs? No, I don't think Quin should be kept regardless of what stupid contract he might get offered. He's like the 7th best player on the defense. Nice to keep, but hardly irreplaceable.

ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 11:26 PM
Interesting tweet from the man himself

Glover Quin Jr ‏@GloverQuin29
Use you up, then throw you away!! Wow!!

dtran04
03-12-2013, 12:06 AM
Probably didn't get the offer he wanted. I wonder who the Texans are looking at for safety depth.

wolf123
03-12-2013, 12:07 AM
Interesting tweet from the man himself

Glover Quin Jr ‏@GloverQuin29

That sounds horrible for us... If we lose Quin we have no one on our roster that can take his place.

False Start
03-12-2013, 12:09 AM
I REALLY hope we can keep Quin, dude is damn good Safety. He is a vital player to this D, and comes to play with intensity every game.

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 12:12 AM
I wouldn't describe Quin as having been "used up" by any stretch. He's 27.

redwhiteblue
03-12-2013, 12:13 AM
I thought that tweet was in reference to Boldin getting traded

PapaL
03-12-2013, 12:37 AM
I thought that tweet was in reference to Boldin getting traded

It's the sky is falling season; no room for logic here.

Norg
03-12-2013, 12:39 AM
arent we lined up to take one of the best safties in the draft ..???

Corrosion
03-12-2013, 12:50 AM
arent we lined up to take one of the best safties in the draft ..???

Sure they could take a top safety .... but that means passing on another position like WR , NT or OT.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 01:25 AM
Wilson/Phillips/Delmas anyone?

The chickens are coming home to roost Slick Rick.

b0ng
03-12-2013, 03:01 AM
Wilson/Phillips/Delmas anyone?

The chickens are coming home to roost Slick Rick.

haha always got something negative to say about the FO or the owner. Typical.

Anwyay, yes, Glover Quin is going to have some interest around the league, but there are a lot of guys (now that Mikell was cut too) that are decent to good safeties that are going to be on the market. (Wilson I believe is signed iwth the TItans, would have to look that up.) If Quin does leave, I'm willing to wait and see how more of FA plays out before I start talking with broad metaphors that could mean anything (chickens coming home to roost I don't even know wtf that could be a reference to).

fiasco west
03-12-2013, 05:12 AM
arent we lined up to take one of the best safties in the draft ..???

We will be in trouble if we expect a rookie safety to replace Quinn.

I hope the Texans learned that lesson with their right side of the line. Even if a vet like Winston is slightly above average, he's likely better than the inexperienced rookie you are going to throw out there into the fire.

The great teams don't rely on their rookies to make big impact their rookie season.

I hope we keep Quinn, but at a reasonable price

Maddict5
03-12-2013, 06:02 AM
Interesting tweet from the man himself

Glover Quin Jr ‏@GloverQuin29

...just as news of the boldin trade broke. 2+2=5

Corrosion
03-12-2013, 07:17 AM
...just as news of the boldin trade broke. 2+2=5

I really hope thats the case .... I have heard nothing on Quin.

EllisUnit
03-12-2013, 07:26 AM
I really hope thats the case .... I have heard nothing on Quin.

Texans have been good about paying guys who deserve it and who are a key piece to the team. I think they work out a deal fare for both sides.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 07:47 AM
He's like the 7th best player on the defense. Nice to keep, but hardly irreplaceable.

Help me out with this.


Watt
Cushing
Smith
Kjax


At least for 2012 I don't think another player outplayed Quin on our defense.


I do agree that he's not an "at all cost" player. We screwed the pooch & overpaid for Manning (I think), but that's free agency & that's what free agency is about. Over paying for Quin isn't going to fix that.

Corrosion
03-12-2013, 08:17 AM
Help me out with this.


Watt
Cushing
Smith
Kjax


At least for 2012 I don't think another player outplayed Quin on our defense.


I do agree that he's not an "at all cost" player. We screwed the pooch & overpaid for Manning (I think), but that's free agency & that's what free agency is about. Over paying for Quin isn't going to fix that.


Watt
Cushing*
Smith (debatable)
JJo (debatable)
Kjax
Quin


You could argue that Manning is better ... or not ... which would put Quin #7.


I really hope he sticks around for a fair deal for both sides, what that turns out to be is up for debate tho I think somewhere in the 3-4m range might get it done.

Bulls on Parade
03-12-2013, 08:43 AM
We need to beef up our front seven in this draft. We could use an upgrade at nose tackle, another starter at inside linebacker (next to Cushing), and a future upgrade at right end (the ninja is aging). Let's face it guys, we could have Pee Wee Herman starting in the secondary and he would still look good if our front seven was dominating. We need a better pass rush from our front seven, not just a one-man show out of J.J. Watt.

Brisco_County
03-12-2013, 09:27 AM
Daniel Jeremiah is usually reliable. He's one of the few in sports media whose opinion I regard highly.

But I think he's off on this one because of the Lion's cap space. I'll be worried when someone from Tampa Bay or the 49er's start calling.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 10:54 AM
Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks


https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/311309181565169665

Losing Quin would be a big blow to our secondary. Hope management keeps him at all costs.

Thoughts?

We want to keep him, but not at any cost. I have no idea what he wants, but it looks like he didn't like our offer.

If I've learned anything is that we seem to give an offer that we think is fair for the player and the team and then let him look around. He Quin gets better than what we offer we'll find someone else.

It could be like Brisiel. Everyone would have liked him back, but not at the $$ that Oakland gave him. If someone give Quin a 4 year $20-$25 million dollar contract he's leaving.

We have more important players on the team that are making too much money to shell out that much for Quin.

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 10:58 AM
Evan Silva ‏@evansilva
Obvious agents are using #Lions as "interested team" to pump clientele because Detroit has so many needs. Lions are bottom-10 in cap room.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 10:58 AM
We will be in trouble if we expect a rookie safety to replace Quinn.

I hope the Texans learned that lesson with their right side of the line. Even if a vet like Winston is slightly above average, he's likely better than the inexperienced rookie you are going to throw out there into the fire.

The great teams don't rely on their rookies to make big impact their rookie season.

I hope we keep Quinn, but at a reasonable price

With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.

Brisco_County
03-12-2013, 01:26 PM
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.

Vacarro only had a couple of minor incidents off the field. He got into a bit of a scuffle during an intramural basketball game, and he didn't leave a pizza joint when asked. But he's a top 20 pick anyway. Someone like Swearinger is more realitic.

Dutchrudder
03-12-2013, 01:33 PM
We need to beef up our front seven in this draft. We could use an upgrade at nose tackle, another starter at inside linebacker (next to Cushing), and a future upgrade at right end (the ninja is aging). Let's face it guys, we could have Pee Wee Herman starting in the secondary and he would still look good if our front seven was dominating. We need a better pass rush from our front seven, not just a one-man show out of J.J. Watt.

I dunno man, Pee Wee Herman had his moments, but when it comes to the 4th quarter, I get the feeling that he will pull out at the most inopportune time.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.

Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 01:45 PM
Vacarro only had a couple of minor incidents off the field. He got into a bit of a scuffle during an intramural basketball game, and he didn't leave a pizza joint when asked. But he's a top 20 pick anyway. Someone like Swearinger is more realitic.

I have to say no to Vacarro in the first.
He made some good plays within the scheme and he's a hard-nose player..

But you need to be an impact player to a certain degree as a first rounder.
IMO, drafting him in the first (depending on the spot) is like paying Quin $3.5-4.5M a year.

Neither is the guy you need to get over the hump, even though they are good players.

badboy
03-12-2013, 01:46 PM
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.All 3 of these should be even better this season and I agree the right rookie will be okay. Phillips is good at adjusting. Might not be used at LB as Quin was on occasion but should be ok. Deep draft especially if CBs that can convert are counted. I still think Quin is a Texan this year.

TJ McDonald- 4th
Josh Evans -4th
Terry Hawthorne (CB)- 4th

Zeke Motta - 5TH

badboy
03-12-2013, 01:49 PM
Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.Could Brandon Harris or Roc Carmichael take Quin's spot? Antonio Smith has 2-3 more years and there has been frequent talk on this MB about reworking his contract and extend.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 01:50 PM
All 3 of these should be even better this season and I agree the right rookie will be okay. Phillips is good at adjusting. Might not be used at LB as Quin was on occasion but should be ok. Deep draft especially if CBs that can convert are counted. I still think Quin is a Texan this year.

TJ McDonald- 4th
Josh Evans -4th
Terry Hawthorne (CB)- 4th

Zeke Motta - 5TH

No, that actually won't be ok. When Quin moves into that position in nickel and dime, it is because that is the only way we can matchup with teams that spread out defenses. It barely works as is, because Wade Phillips doesn't want to come off his man scheme. So, no, that will not work. We will need two players to replace Quin if said rookie can't fill that role. It's either that or change the scheme, which is not going to happen.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 01:53 PM
Could Brandon Harris or Roc Carmichael take Quin's spot? Antonio Smith has 2-3 more years and there has been frequent talk on this MB about reworking his contract and extend.

Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Evan Silva ‏@evansilva
More signs pointing Reggie Bush to the #Lions:

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 03:00 PM
Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.

I think Quin is good. I think he's important. What he is, IMO, is replaceable if needed. I think he's one of the top 5 defensive players on the team. I want him back in Houston, but we can't do it at a risk of not being able to extend Cushing or pay Watt when that comes time.

I think you are right that in our D the safety is asked to do more than in other defenses. Still, there have been safeties coming out of college that succeeded as rookies. At equal or even similar costs, I'd rather have Quin than any rookie right now, but that won't happen.

deucetx
03-12-2013, 03:05 PM
Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.

Heh not sure about 'ALOT'. Other than Watt, Smith was the only pressure we had and that helps the coverage. Smith was graded 6th among 3-4 DE's on PFF, was second amongst them in QB hurries. Quin has his worth and most folks want him back. They are just saying it isn't like he is a top notch player that can't be replaced so they won't go running around like mad men if he isn't retained at some ridiculous amount of money. It's all about keeping it reasonable.

Put it like this...Quin allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and the 3rd most touchdowns allowed by safeties last year. Is that 'can't miss talent?' type of numbers where you break your bank? Course not. Solid but not exceptional.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 03:08 PM
I think Quin is good. I think he's important. What he is, IMO, is replaceable if needed. I think he's one of the top 5 defensive players on the team. I want him back in Houston, but we can't do it at a risk of not being able to extend Cushing or pay Watt when that comes time.

I think you are right that in our D the safety is asked to do more than in other defenses. Still, there have been safeties coming out of college that succeeded as rookies. At equal or even similar costs, I'd rather have Quin than any rookie right now, but that won't happen.

Everybody is replaceable. It won't be easy to replace Quin and all the roles he plays for the team. Quin does way more for the team than Manning, he is much more versatile.

badboy
03-12-2013, 03:10 PM
No, that actually won't be ok. When Quin moves into that position in nickel and dime, it is because that is the only way we can matchup with teams that spread out defenses. It barely works as is, because Wade Phillips doesn't want to come off his man scheme. So, no, that will not work. We will need two players to replace Quin if said rookie can't fill that role. It's either that or change the scheme, which is not going to happen.My understanding is Quin only moved into that role when the LBs fell apart. It is not the scheme Wade prefer to run frequently. Man is good so let's not knock Phillips for that (if you were). ANother LB in draft that can cover will work.

badboy
03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 03:18 PM
Heh not sure about 'ALOT'. Other than Watt, Smith was the only pressure we had and that helps the coverage. Smith was graded 6th among 3-4 DE's on PFF, was second amongst them in QB hurries. Quin has his worth and most folks want him back. They are just saying it isn't like he is a top notch player that can't be replaced so they won't go running around like mad men if he isn't retained at some ridiculous amount of money. It's all about keeping it reasonable.

Put it like this...Quin allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and the 3rd most touchdowns allowed by safeties last year. Is that 'can't miss talent?' type of numbers where you break your bank? Course not. Solid but not exceptional.

Certainly you would want him at a fair value. The question is what are we prepared to offer him and what is he prepared to sign for. We have no idea what those numbers are.

Also how does anybody go about assigning a QB rating that was allowed by one defensive player??? That's impossible to do. How do they determine that he allowed the TD and not somebody else. We have already had this discussion on silly stats a million times. A QB rating allowed assigned to a defensive player? Seriously?

The reality of the NFL is that nearly nobody is paid at fair value. Some players are overpaid due to a lack of available options, or because he provides something to your defense that would be even more expensive to replicate with other players. Quin provides us with a safety that can man up on the slot and TEs effectively and can play the run well. Name me some guys in free agency or through the draft that can do it as well as him.

I'll save you some time and tell you that there aren't any that will sign for lower than Quin and we can't afford a slip in production. Safety play is the most important thing in THIS Wade defense outside of pass rush. You start putting Manning or a less competent man cover safety in Quin's role and we are going to get SMASHED by the likes of the Patriots and other spread offenses. Just warning you now.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 03:20 PM
Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.

The position that Quin was put in in nickel and dime situations is extremely difficult to handle. He could barely do it and he is actually good at it. There aren't many safeties in the NFL that can do all the things he did successfully. Center fielders as safeties don't work in that role. It takes a specific skill set. There isn't a linebacker in the league that could play that position successfully. Not one.

Bottom line is if we expect to keep Wade and this scheme, this position is very important and shouldn't be taken lightly, as if we can get quality play there at a low price. That's not reality.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 03:25 PM
My understanding is Quin only moved into that role when the LBs fell apart. It is not the scheme Wade prefer to run frequently. Man is good so let's not knock Phillips for that (if you were). ANother LB in draft that can cover will work.

No, he was put in the position because its impossible for a linebacker of 240 plus pounds to play that position effectively. He has been doing it since Wade arrived.

Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.

Roc and Harris never had the potential of a KJax. Neither of those guys is worth anything. Maybe Harris is a decent #4 corner but that is speculative at best. I saw the potential in KJax when the majority of folks around here wanted his head cut off. I took major heat for it too. Now people are saying that KJax is more important than Quin. I disagree with that. It's funny how quickly people change their tune though.

b0ng
03-12-2013, 03:33 PM
There are a lot of guys in the FA Safety market. We'll see what all these guys get.

SW H-TOWN
03-12-2013, 03:34 PM
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Everybody is replaceable. It won't be easy to replace Quin and all the roles he plays for the team. Quin does way more for the team than Manning, he is much more versatile.

I'm not suggesting that Manning is more valuable. If it were a situation where they were both FAs and you could only re-sign one, I'd take Quin right now. However, Manning is under contract already.

Technically everyone is replaceable. The problem lies with can you replace them with a comparable level or better player.

It would be a lot easier to get another S of Quin's ability than a DE of Watt's or a WR of Johnson's.

HOU-TEX
03-12-2013, 03:44 PM
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.

Maybe the player decides to test the market on his own. Ever think about that?

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 03:46 PM
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.

The only way to keep them from the open market is to hit them with the franchise tag. While the hit for safeties is lower than most spots it is still too costly for him when we don't have a lot of room.

I guess it would have been possible to extend at the beginning of the season, but as we've seen with Schaub that can backfire. I'm sure there has been an offer on the table for a long term deal since the season ended, or soon thereafter. Obviously, it wasn't exactly what Quin wanted, but you have to have a budget and know how much you can pay a player. If the team has to start cutting too many players to sign one then you create even more holes.

Dutchrudder
03-12-2013, 03:50 PM
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.

I heard an interview with Quin the other day and he said the Texans had to want to keep him here. Reading between the lines, he's asking a certain amount, and the Texans don't want to pay it. So let him test the waters, and if the best he can do is 3.5m a year for 4 years, the Texans will probably match it. If the Browns offer him 5 years 30 million, then he's gone. The guy hasn't made a whole lot in his career so far, so I can't blame him for wanting top dollar.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 03:52 PM
I'm not suggesting that Manning is more valuable. If it were a situation where they were both FAs and you could only re-sign one, I'd take Quin right now. However, Manning is under contract already.

Technically everyone is replaceable. The problem lies with can you replace them with a comparable level or better player.

It would be a lot easier to get another S of Quin's ability than a DE of Watt's or a WR of Johnson's.

Right, I definitely agree with you about Cushing and Watt. The big point I am trying to make is that the level of play we got from Quin will cost a good chunk of change and/or a high draft pick to replace.

A guy like Byrd would never be able to play Quin's role. I don't think Delmas can either. Maybe you can say that Byrd is "as good" as Quin, but it boils down to scheme and what a player is asked to do. Byrd in this scheme would suck compared to Quin, and Quin as a centerfield type of safety would probably not be as effective as he is now. Even if they could, why do people assume they can be had for less than what Quin is asking or would want?

I didn't mean to insinuate that you were saying anything about Manning, just using him as an example of a player that won't fill the role. Manning is good at what he does though.

I'm all for replacing him with a cheaper option if we get the same level of play. I just don't think that is as easy as it sounds or really even possible given what is out there. If that's what we want, it's going to have to be someone on a rookie contract.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 03:57 PM
Right, I definitely agree with you about Cushing and Watt. The big point I am trying to make is that the level of play we got from Quin will cost a good chunk of change and/or a high draft pick to replace.

A guy like Byrd would never be able to play Quin's role. I don't think Delmas can either. Maybe you can say that Byrd is "as good" as Quin, but it boils down to scheme and what a player is asked to do. Byrd in this scheme would suck compared to Quin, and Quin as a centerfield type of safety would probably not be as effective as he is now.

I'm all for replacing him with a cheaper option if we get the same level of play. I just don't think that is as easy as it sounds or really even possible given what is out there. If that's what we want, it's going to have to be someone on a rookie contract.

It could be that they figure they can get a slight drop-off in production with a rookie safety, but can upgrade more significantly at DT and OLB for the same amount of money it would cost to keep Quin. It could be like going with JJo and Manning instead of Nnamdi. We upgraded 2 positions for the same cost as just upgrading the one.

The key is going to be what do they do at their open positions.

badboy
03-12-2013, 04:05 PM
No, he was put in the position because its impossible for a linebacker of 240 plus pounds to play that position effectively. He has been doing it since Wade arrived.



Roc and Harris never had the potential of a KJax. Neither of those guys is worth anything. Maybe Harris is a decent #4 corner but that is speculative at best. I saw the potential in KJax when the majority of folks around here wanted his head cut off. I took major heat for it too. Now people are saying that KJax is more important than Quin. I disagree with that. It's funny how quickly people change their tune though.Not going to bring up the KJ debate all over but to your response KJ was terrible first season and mediocre second. New coaching has developed him into what he is today. Same coaching could do same for Brandon & Roc. This will be KJ's 4th season and he really looked like a starter in his third season. This is the third season for Harris & Carmichael.

ObsiWan
03-12-2013, 04:11 PM
I thought that tweet was in reference to Boldin getting traded

That would have made more sense.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 04:12 PM
We need to beef up our front seven in this draft. We could use an upgrade at nose tackle, another starter at inside linebacker (next to Cushing), and a future upgrade at right end (the ninja is aging).

In all honesty, I could care less about the defense. We've spent to many years & too many draft picks on defense over the last 5 years. This is an offense driven league. There's no such thing as a dominate defense, look what happened to the 49ers in the play offs.

We need bend but don't break defense. Get a key stop defense.

I'd be perfectly fine if we took offensive players with our first 4 picks.

Let Wade make lemonade for a while.

ObsiWan
03-12-2013, 04:15 PM
In all honesty, I could care less about the defense. We've spent to many years & too many draft picks on defense over the last 5 years. This is an offense driven league. There's no such thing as a dominate defense, look what happened to the 49ers in the play offs.

We need bend but don't break defense. Get a key stop defense.

I'd be perfectly fine if we took offensive players with our first 4 picks.

Let Wade make lemonade for a while.

but... but... Wade SINGLEHANDEDLY is responsible for us being in the playoffs for the past two seasons!! Just ask SteelB.
:D

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 04:20 PM
Put it like this...Quin allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and the 3rd most touchdowns allowed by safeties last year. Is that 'can't miss talent?' type of numbers where you break your bank? Course not. Solid but not exceptional.

But how many times was he covering someone most people wouldn't put a safety on?

I think it's hard to judge Quin based on stats. How does he allow 95.9 QB ratting, but have 16 passes defensed & 2 Ints? And a sack & a hundred tackles?

Was he the only one on defense?

He passes the eyeball test to me. He's a baller & we need them on this team.

I agree, he's not an "at all cost" player, & he's not going to pick one & take it to the house, or look as pretty as Jarius Byrd. But he deserves to be well compensated.

Hopefully he understands what his true value is & Rick Smith is at least in the ball park. If he decides to walk after that, then it is what it is. Can't blame Rick for not overpaying, can't blame Quin for getting all he can while he can.

TexanSam
03-12-2013, 04:20 PM
In all honesty, I could care less about the defense. We've spent to many years & too many draft picks on defense over the last 5 years. This is an offense driven league. There's no such thing as a dominate defense, look what happened to the 49ers in the play offs.

We need bend but don't break defense. Get a key stop defense.

I'd be perfectly fine if we took offensive players with our first 4 picks.

Let Wade make lemonade for a while.

Remember 2010?

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 04:25 PM
Remember 2010?

I thought we were blaming Frank Bush for that.

SW H-TOWN
03-12-2013, 04:32 PM
Maybe the player decides to test the market on his own. Ever think about that?

I have given it serious thought but I still think it is a really bad move to let him hit the open market because we have 4 options. Play Keo, sign a free agent, draft a rookie, or tag him.

Playing Keo would be a disaster.

Sign a free agent. Dashon Goldston, William Moore and Jairus Byrd would cost too much. Rick Smith knew this if they did any type of analysis which they probably did a while ago. Lewis Delmas can't stay healthy. Kenny Phillips had microfracture surgery a couple of years ago and also missed most of 2012 with another knee injury. Ed Reed will never play for the Texans. LaRon Landry has had a very inconsistent career. The rest of the guys are either old or a significant downgrade.

As for a rookie I believe that we have too many needs to draft a safety who can start from day one.

For this reason I personally would have placed the franchise tag of 6.8 million on him, worked on a long term deal, and cut a player like Kevin Walter (just did that) to help make room for a player who is a crucial part of our no depth secondary. Many players like to test free agency but given the circumstances and alternatives I think that it was stupid to let Quin hit the open market.

deucetx
03-12-2013, 04:40 PM
Also how does anybody go about assigning a QB rating that was allowed by one defensive player??? That's impossible to do. How do they determine that he allowed the TD and not somebody else. We have already had this discussion on silly stats a million times. A QB rating allowed assigned to a defensive player? Seriously?

Quin provides us with a safety that can man up on the slot and TEs effectively and can play the run well. Name me some guys in free agency or through the draft that can do it as well as him.

I'll save you some time and tell you that there aren't any that will sign for lower than Quin and we can't afford a slip in production. Safety play is the most important thing in THIS Wade defense outside of pass rush. You start putting Manning or a less competent man cover safety in Quin's role and we are going to get SMASHED by the likes of the Patriots and other spread offenses. Just warning you now.

So basically you say that you can see Quin is doing all this, handling his coverage responsibilities to the degree no one else can do yet when someone else reviews the games and tapes they aren't capable of evaluating and coming up with the QB rating against that player because they have no clue about his assignments? But somehow you know. The rating has been there for a several years at this point so yeah...it is possible.

Put it like this...you are trying to say no one can do what he does. That is a stretch because he lines up next to someone that did it and does it. One, the safety spots are interchangable. So Manning will get smashed shows you are assuming. He played the role with the Texans to an extent but also with the Bears. He played nickle back to cover the slot guys then moved to SS in the box for the Bears. He had the same responsibilities when they didn't utilize cover 2 which is a majority of the time when he was the strong safety. Manning played FS, NB, SS and FS again. So yeah, he can do it too. And we have no clue if those like Byrd could either. But I simply bring up Manning because I'm a Bears/Texans fan so have seen him since his rookie year. He was a pet for Lovie Smith.

As for us getting smashed by spreads. Heh, we did. Our secondary was 16th in the league after all. Spreads already are killing us so what would be so different?

Anyway, as others said, he is solid and pretty much everyone wants him back. I see little reason of arguement because guys simply don't want to overpay for him but want him back. We all know we are better with him than trying to fill yet another hole. But it shouldn't come at the cost of our future re-signings and moves.

deucetx
03-12-2013, 04:48 PM
But how many times was he covering someone most people wouldn't put a safety on?

I think it's hard to judge Quin based on stats. How does he allow 95.9 QB ratting, but have 16 passes defensed & 2 Ints? And a sack & a hundred tackles?

Was he the only one on defense?

He passes the eyeball test to me. He's a baller & we need them on this team.

I agree, he's not an "at all cost" player, & he's not going to pick one & take it to the house, or look as pretty as Jarius Byrd. But he deserves to be well compensated.

Hopefully he understands what his true value is & Rick Smith is at least in the ball park. If he decides to walk after that, then it is what it is. Can't blame Rick for not overpaying, can't blame Quin for getting all he can while he can.

Eh, you either get the job done or you don't, right? More teams have shifted corners to the safety position so this isn't some new phenom. They do this to matchup with the same type of players we're matching Quin up with now. It's the evolution of the game. Manning was holding the same coverage assignments in 2009. In basic packages for the Bears he was strong safety (i.e. extra linebacker) and in spread he moved to nickle and someone else came to safety.

As for rating, it is calculated (from what I gathered) same as QB rating is. Yes, he has the stats you stated except the tackles. Only 84 of those (64 solo). He also allowed the 3rd most touchdowns for safeties. He was also the highly targetted on our team like Kareem. So he allowed more receptions.

Our secondary wasn't that strong folks. So far I have heard KJax was great, Joseph was good, McCain was good before being injured and now Quin is amazing too. LOL so where is the weakness that the spreads attacked so much if everyone is so good? Sure wasn't just linebackers or Manning since his season was similar to Quin's.

In any case, as said earlier. No one is saying he is a bad player. Haven't heard one person say it yet. He's just not exceptional. He's solid and we all rather keep him. So again what is the discussion unless you think he is top notch.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 05:03 PM
So basically you say that you can see Quin is doing all this, handling his coverage responsibilities to the degree no one else can do yet when someone else reviews the games and tapes they aren't capable of evaluating and coming up with the QB rating against that player because they have no clue about his assignments? But somehow you know. The rating has been there for a several years at this point so yeah...it is possible.

I didn't say that nobody could provide what Quin provided, I am saying you won't get it at a low price, or lower than what Quin would command. Additionally, there isn't a group of free agents out there that can provide what Quin provided. If there are, please point me to them. I also never said I knew what his assignments were all the time. That is what would be required to come up with a rating system such as the one your backing. When I say that something is not possible, it is based on common sense. It doesn't mean that I think I know all of his assignments.

Reading comprehension needed.

It's not difficult to see when someone is in man coverage on a player. Zone is the problem, if you are trying to determine who is responsible for what catch or what touchdown. When I speak about Quin being able to effectively man up on slot receivers, that is something that is easily viewable. Rating a defensive player based off of quarterback rating requires that you know every player's assignment on every play and the way that each player is coached. That is impossible. Again, common sense. Here (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/26991/quin-confident-in-scheme-knowledge) is an article with Quin talking about getting "help" from other players on a specific play. Maybe he can help you understand why that rating system is a joke.

“I definitely feel like I can cover. I’ve played two years in the NFL as a cornerback, so I definitely feel like I can cover, but I’m a scheme guy. I’m a guy that I understand the defense, I understand the schemes and I understand my leverages and my help. When you’re playing corner in this league, if you understand the scheme and you understand what’s going on, you can for the most part survive if you know where you’ve got your help at. There’s not a lot of people out there that can just cover every route by a great receiver. You can’t do that, but if you know you got help on the inside, well if he goes inside, I don’t care. I’m playing every route on the outside or vice versa or I’m fighting everything deep because I know I’ve got short help. It just depends on the leverage and the scheme that you have. I mean, if you understand that, than you can be successful as a corner.”

Your telling me that some random guy watching film is privy to all that information for every team and every defensive scheme in the NFL? He also understands the small differences in the way each player is coached and therefore can account for that in his rating system, correct? He understands these things well enough to create a rating system that so specifically grades players? I mean, 95.7 or whatever it was is pretty specific, wouldn't you say? And you trust that rating system?

Put it like this...you are trying to say no one can do what he does. That is a stretch because he lines up next to someone that did it and does it. One, the safety spots are interchangable. So Manning will get smashed shows you are assuming. He played the role with the Texans to an extent but also with the Bears. He played nickle back to cover the slot guys then moved to SS in the box for the Bears. He had the same responsibilities when they didn't utilize cover 2 which is a majority of the time when he was the strong safety. Manning played FS, NB, SS and FS again. So yeah, he can do it too. And we have no clue if those like Byrd could either. But I simply bring up Manning because I'm a Bears/Texans fan so have seen him since his rookie year. He was a pet for Lovie Smith.

Your just plain wrong, sorry to say it. Quin and Manning play different roles, dramatically different. They don't put Manning in man against the better TEs and slot WRs in the game on a consistent basis. Manning may have been able to do it when he was young and with the Bears, but that's not the case anymore. I wouldn't even be able to tell if you if that is true or not because I didn't watch enough of the Bears back then. I watch every Texan game, obviously, so I can speak about that. If he was equally as good as Quin at playing receivers in the slot, why is Quin doing is so much more often? Why don't we see their roles reversed more often? Again, common sense.

Mr teX
03-12-2013, 05:16 PM
Quinn is also the primary blitzer from the secondary for Wade...We need him.........................................unless we've got plans to go after Charles Woodson....He just moved to safety last year for GB can still cover in spurts & he's been an excellent blitzer from the secondary throughout his career..The more i think about it the more i want the FO to make this happen.

Get er' done Rick!!!!!!!!!!

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 05:31 PM
Our secondary wasn't that strong folks. So far I have heard KJax was great, Joseph was good, McCain was good before being injured and now Quin is amazing too. LOL so where is the weakness that the spreads attacked so much if everyone is so good? Sure wasn't just linebackers or Manning since his season was similar to Quin's.


Jjo & Manning. Those two have fallen quite a bit from 2011. Jjo hurt... I get that. I mentioned before it was public that something was wrong & you could see it in his play. He wasn't healthy until late in the season, by my eye, I'm thinking Indy.

Manning I think is the main reason we won't sign Quin. If I were Quin, I'd think I deserved more than Manning..... whose season was not comparable to Quin's. But he's not going to get there here & I don't think he should.


In any case, as said earlier. No one is saying he is a bad player. Haven't heard one person say it yet. He's just not exceptional. He's solid and we all rather keep him. So again what is the discussion unless you think he is top notch.

Preaching to the choir..... I thought I was on the same side of the fence as you. From the post you quoted:
Hopefully he understands what his true value is & Rick Smith is at least in the ball park. If he decides to walk after that, then it is what it is. Can't blame Rick for not overpaying, can't blame Quin for getting all he can while he can.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 05:34 PM
but... but... Wade SINGLEHANDEDLY is responsible for us being in the playoffs for the past two seasons!! Just ask SteelB.
:D

We did make the p[ayoffs the last 2 yrs? Correct? How many times did the Texans make the playoffs before Wade? How much imput did Wade have in the FA signings of JoJo and Manning? The drafting of Watt and Reed?

Yeah, I would say Wade had more to do with the Texans making the playoffs the last 2 yrs than anybody else in the Texans org. Will this be yr 8 for Gary and yr 7 for Rick? How much more shelf life do you think they have in this org.

BTW, I've been preaching that this is the yr to fix the offense. It's a great yr for WR/OL/TE.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 05:43 PM
How much imput did Wade have in the FA signings of JoJo and Manning?


I'm going to say none. It didn't take a genius to figure out we needed help at CB & safety. It might be a coincidence that everyone else thought Jjo was the 2nd (maybe third but since Taylor resigned with the Steelers it doesn't matter) best corner available.

I doubt Wade walked in one day & said, "Forget that Aso Ashole.... I can make Jjo work."


The drafting of Watt and Reed?


Again, I doubt Wade crossed everyone else's name off the list & highlighted these two names. I seriously doubt that Watt was at the top of Wade's list.... the one Rick Smith gave him to begin with. & when Watt was available when our pick came, I don't think Wade snatched the card from Rick Smith & ran to the podium.

When that cupcake makes a star out of Braman or Crick, come holla, until then, I think he's getting way too much credit around here.

He deserves some, but this is a little overboard.




jmo.

htowntexans1985
03-12-2013, 05:45 PM
Looks like Glover is going on a trip. Damnit! :wadepalm:

Glover Quin Jr @ GloverQuin29
Airport flow!!

Vance87
03-12-2013, 05:55 PM
Looks like Glover is going on a trip. Damnit! :wadepalm:

Glover Quin Jr @ GloverQuin29
Airport flow!!

Was just gonna post that. GAHH!

htowntexans1985
03-12-2013, 06:06 PM
Was just gonna post that. GAHH!

Lol. He might be out of here for good. Really bad move by the Texans to let him hit free agency without locking him down first. Who do we got now? Brice freakin McCain?!!?!?

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 06:08 PM
Glover Quin Jr @ GloverQuin29
Airport flow!!
Does that mean he's travelling or everyone else is travelling???

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 06:10 PM
I'm going to say none. It didn't take a genius to figure out we needed help at CB & safety. It might be a coincidence that everyone else thought Jjo was the 2nd (maybe third but since Taylor resigned with the Steelers it doesn't matter) best corner available.

I doubt Wade walked in one day & said, "Forget that Aso Ashole.... I can make Jjo work."



Again, I doubt Wade crossed everyone else's name off the list & highlighted these two names. I seriously doubt that Watt was at the top of Wade's list.... the one Rick Smith gave him to begin with. & when Watt was available when our pick came, I don't think Wade snatched the card from Rick Smith & ran to the podium.

When that cupcake makes a star out of Braman or Crick, come holla, until then, I think he's getting way too much credit around here.

He deserves some, but this is a little overboard.




jmo.

Lets just say that we disagree on Wades imput on FA and the draft. If Rick was great at picking defensive talent, then why was the defense historically bad despite numerous high draft picks being spent before Wade got here? Then all of the sudden Rick had an enlightenment the moment Wade was signed on as DC and Rick started making HOF picks in the 1st rd and adding solid starters in the draft after that. If you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.

I'm also sure Wade gave Rick a list of DB's he liked. Rick tried to get Aso couldn't get a deal done and moved on to JoJo and Manning. Seems reasonable to me.

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 06:11 PM
:BananaWav

Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
FS Glover Quin is visiting the Lions, according to his agent, Mike Hoffman.:wadepalm:

Vance87
03-12-2013, 06:15 PM
:wadepalm:

Detroit is a dead end, hope he realizes this

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 06:16 PM
:wadepalm:

Just great!!!!!!

If the Texans dont spend the $$$$ on Quin/Barwin they better spend it on other FA's and not just pocket the $$$$.

eriadoc
03-12-2013, 06:18 PM
Detroit is a dead end, hope he realizes this

Hey, not that many places you can get a house for under $1000 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/08/real_estate/thousand_dollar_homes/)! :D

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Just great!!!!!!

If the Texans dont spend the $$$$ on Quin/Barwin they better spend it on other FA's and not just pocket the $$$$.

Steel,

they cut Walter so they are making room for something. If there is one thing we can agree on, it is that Kubiak would not participate in the exit of Kevin Walter without just cause. Even in our more active free agent years, we aren't newsmakers on day one for two good reasons:

1. top-tier, day one, free agents are universally overpaid.
2. reporters don't have insiders in Texans' organization.

Again this year, the market is flooded with free agents. The cap is actually 10% smaller than it was three years ago and there is a ton of talent available, particularly at the following positions: TE, CB, S... We just need to breathe deep for the next 24 hours. Things will start happening.

Also, we have between 7-12 free agents that could sign qualifying contracts for compensation in next year's draft. So, what we want is for a lot of our free agents to sign premium deals this week if they aren't staying here... Particularly, if guys like Dobbins, James, McCain, Routt, Caldwell get interest and sign reasonable deals, that will give us room to add some free agents this year and still receive draft compensation in 2014.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 06:41 PM
Steel,

they cut Walter so they are making room for something. If there is one thing we can agree on, it is that Kubiak would not participate in the exit of Kevin Walter without just cause. Even in our more active free agent years, we aren't newsmakers on day one for two good reasons:

1. top-tier, day one, free agents are universally overpaid.
2. reporters don't have insiders in Texans' organization.

Again this year, the market is flooded with free agents. The cap is actually 10% smaller than it was three years ago and there is a ton of talent available, particularly at the following positions: TE, CB, S... We just need to breathe deep for the next 24 hours. Things will start happening.

Also, we have between 7-12 free agents that could sign qualifying contracts for compensation in next year's draft. So, what we want is for a lot of our free agents to sign premium deals this week if they aren't staying here... Particularly, if guys like Dobbins, James, McCain, Routt, Caldwell get interest and sign reasonable deals, that will give us room to add some free agents this year and still receive draft compensation in 2014.

Hope you're right, I dont have a good feeling about this offseason for the Texans.

The 1 yr they spent on top tier FA's they made the playoffs. (Just Saying.)

Fred
03-12-2013, 06:50 PM
I dunno man, Pee Wee Herman had his moments, but when it comes to the 4th quarter, I get the feeling that he will pull out at the most inopportune time.
Not to mention the "off the field" incidents...

Goldensilence
03-12-2013, 06:54 PM
I really love what Quinn brings to the table overall. He's been such a versatile player and has brought stability to the safety spot.

Honestly though he lacks ballhawk instincts and top speed you want in an elite FS.

I'd love to see him back because he fits well with what the defense does.

Honestly though my bigger concern is what's behind him and who they have rotated in Keo and Demps. Also will this staff make a big enough effort to get a viable replacement and keep the secondary from falling apart with the lack of quality players behind him.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 06:57 PM
Hope you're right, I dont have a good feeling about this offseason for the Texans.

The 1 yr they spent on top tier FA's they made the playoffs. (Just Saying.)

Sure, but the one year they sat on their hands and let key veterans go, they won 12 games.

Cutting Walter is the key. That put the Texans somewhere between $9 and $12 million under the cap. They don't make that move unless they are spending that money and need the room. I predict that they will have made (at least) two "significant" free agent signings by early next week... Could be Barwin and Quin... but not looking like that right now.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 07:05 PM
Sure, but the one year they sat on their hands and let key veterans go, they won 12 games.

Cutting Walter is the key. That put the Texans somewhere between $9 and $12 million under the cap. They don't make that move unless they are spending that money and need the room. I predict that they will have made (at least) two "significant" free agent signings by early next week... Could be Barwin and Quin... but not looking like that right now.

I think Quin will be retained and they don't even see what Barwin wants. Resigning Quin and getting a free agent at a need position that could make some sort of impact would be enough for me, given our cap room.

fiasco west
03-12-2013, 07:20 PM
Sure, but the one year they sat on their hands and let key veterans go, they won 12 games.

Cutting Walter is the key. That put the Texans somewhere between $9 and $12 million under the cap. They don't make that move unless they are spending that money and need the room. I predict that they will have made (at least) two "significant" free agent signings by early next week... Could be Barwin and Quin... but not looking like that right now.


I'd let both of them go for Ed Reed.

Just saying. He can still play and that leadership would go far on this team. Would still look to draft a safety but Reed would be a great stop gap.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 07:29 PM
I'd let both of them go for Ed Reed.

Just saying. He can still play and that leadership would go far on this team. Would still look to draft a safety but Reed would be a great stop gap.

It is an exciting group of free agent safeties:
Delmas
LLandry
Reed
Goldson
KPhillips
Mikell
C.Woodson

and others.

The money will dry up before some of these guys are signed. There will be some great bargains by this weekend.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 07:30 PM
I'd let both of them go for Ed Reed.

Just saying. He can still play and that leadership would go far on this team. Would still look to draft a safety but Reed would be a great stop gap.

Not a big fan of that. I love Ed Reed but he has always been the centerfield type. We can't replace Quin with a centerfield safety unless we shift Manning's role to what Quin does now. I've already given my opinion on shifting Manning.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 07:35 PM
Not a big fan of that. I love Ed Reed but he has always been the centerfield type. We can't replace Quin with a centerfield safety unless we shift Manning's role to what Quin does now. I've already given my opinion on shifting Manning.

There are also guys like Adrian Wilson, Abram Elam, DLandry, Bigby that can play SS well... Plus, some of what Quin did this year was a result of a lack of coverage ability at LB. Cushing's health and the addition of someone like McIntosh, Akeem Jordan, Boley, M.Lawosn, Keith Rivers, or Dansby could change the need for a safety that can play in the box. By the way, in today's NFL, I'd much rather deal with two safeties that struggle to plug the run than safeties that can't cover a tight end.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 07:36 PM
It is an exciting group of free agent safeties:
Delmas
LLandry
Reed
Goldson
KPhillips
Mikell
C.Woodson

and others.

The money will dry up before some of these guys are signed. There will be some great bargains by this weekend.

I would assume that Reed and Woodson will command contracts higher than Quin on a per year basis. Goldson is the best safety there, in terms of value over the length of a contract, so he will most definitely be more expensive than Quin. Delmas will command the same type of money as Quin and not sure if he fits the role as well as Quin does. Hard to say with him. Mikell has been abused far too much for my liking.

I could see a LLandry or KPhillips signing but still don't think they offer the same value over the contract that Quin does.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 07:41 PM
I would assume that Reed and Woodson will command contracts higher than Quin on a per year basis. Goldson is the best safety there, in terms of value over te length of a contract, so he will most definitely be more expensive than Quin. Delmas will command the same type of money as Quin and not sure if he fits the role as well as Quin does. Hard to say with him. Mikell has been abuse far too much for my liking.

I could see a LLandry or KPhillips signing but still don't think they offer the same value over the contract that Quin does.

Other than Goldson, I don't think it is clear what these guys will command. The money will get tight by Friday and weird things happen after that. Remember two years ago: guys started signing one year deals because they couldn't get anything near their "value" so they could hit free agency in a better market. This year is similar in available money and # of quality free agents.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 07:42 PM
There are also guys like Adrian Wilson, Abram Elam, DLandry, Bigby that can play SS well... Plus, some of what Quin did this year was a result of a lack of coverage ability at LB. Cushing's health and the addition of someone like McIntosh, Akeem Jordan, Boley, M.Lawosn, Keith Rivers, or Dansby could change the need for a safety that can play in the box. By the way, in today's NFL, I'd much rather deal with two safeties that struggle to plug the run than safeties that can't cover a tight end.

Your right but....Adrian Wilson turns 33 in October, Elam turns 32 in October, and Landry turns 31 in December but I do like him. Atari Bigby has been dealing with injuries his entire career and turns 32 in September.

None of the linebackers mentioned can be expected to cover slot receivers and TEs.

SW H-TOWN
03-12-2013, 08:16 PM
If we don't resign Quin this will be a major blow IMO. We have NO depth at safety and I have to disagree that this is an exciting FA safety class. I did a breakdown of our options near the bottom of page 4. I would appreciate if some of you guys read it and gave me some feedback.

pec0sb0b
03-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Michael Huff was just released by Oakland.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Hope you're right, I dont have a good feeling about this offseason for the Texans.

The 1 yr they spent on top tier FA's they made the playoffs. (Just Saying.)

Again, you're rewriting history. Anthony Weaver (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=23) didn't pan out, but there were only 2 DEs rated above him that did not sign with their original teams, making him the third rated DE available. That year, we signed both the 2nd rated available DE (ND Kalu) & the third.

Matt Schaub (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=10) was tendered with a first round pick. We traded 2 seconds to get him & signed him to a starter's contract.

I also believe Antonio Smith (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=23&yr=2009) was one of the top rated DEs at the time & we paid him a pretty penny as well.

Just saying.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 08:40 PM
I have given it serious thought but I still think it is a really bad move to let him hit the open market because we have 4 options. Play Keo, sign a free agent, draft a rookie, or tag him.

Playing Keo would be a disaster.

Sign a free agent. Dashon Goldston, William Moore and Jairus Byrd would cost too much. Rick Smith knew this if they did any type of analysis which they probably did a while ago. Lewis Delmas can't stay healthy. Kenny Phillips had microfracture surgery a couple of years ago and also missed most of 2012 with another knee injury. Ed Reed will never play for the Texans. LaRon Landry has had a very inconsistent career. The rest of the guys are either old or a significant downgrade.

As for a rookie I believe that we have too many needs to draft a safety who can start from day one.

For this reason I personally would have placed the franchise tag of 6.8 million on him, worked on a long term deal, and cut a player like Kevin Walter (just did that) to help make room for a player who is a crucial part of our no depth secondary. Many players like to test free agency but given the circumstances and alternatives I think that it was stupid to let Quin hit the open market.

1. Agree totally on Keo
2. Agree with concerns regarding Delmas and Phillips
3. You have no idea whether Reed would play for us or not.
4. I love Landry and think he is worth the gamble.

Franchising Quin would eat up our available cap and make other moves very difficult. I'd like them to sign him but I don't want them to overpay on a 4 or 5 year deal. So, I like that they have let him look around.

If Quin goes, there are a lot of quality veteran options that will allow money to be allocated elsewhere. Also, we will have 10-11 draft picks and it is a deep group of safeties. So, if we don't grab one of the following (Landry, Goldson, Delmas, Reed, etc..), we still will get Mikell, Sensabaugh, DLandry, Crocker, Bigby, Huff, Elam, A.Wilson, etc... and also address the group in the draft.

texan279
03-12-2013, 08:40 PM
As of March 9th, 2013, the Lions only have $5,361,000 in cap space.

LINK (http://www.freep.com/interactive/article/20130117/SPORTS01/130114053/detroit-lions-salary-cap-breakdown)



As of 5 hours ago we have about $11.5 million in cap space.

LINK (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/)




Will the Lions have enough cap space to sign Quin?

SW H-TOWN
03-12-2013, 09:49 PM
1. Agree totally on Keo
2. Agree with concerns regarding Delmas and Phillips
3. You have no idea whether Reed would play for us or not.
4. I love Landry and think he is worth the gamble.

Franchising Quin would eat up our available cap and make other moves very difficult. I'd like them to sign him but I don't want them to overpay on a 4 or 5 year deal. So, I like that they have let him look around.

If Quin goes, there are a lot of quality veteran options that will allow money to be allocated elsewhere. Also, we will have 10-11 draft picks and it is a deep group of safeties. So, if we don't grab one of the following (Landry, Goldson, Delmas, Reed, etc..), we still will get Mikell, Sensabaugh, DLandry, Crocker, Bigby, Huff, Elam, A.Wilson, etc... and also address the group in the draft.

Thanks, good insight. Only death is certain but I doubt Ed Reed will ever be in a Texans uniform, especially after winning the Super Bowl. I think he will retire a Raven. Mikell would be a great option, I would love to see him in a Texans uniform. Huff is another guy who I would like for us to sign. I doubt we sign Landry to a long term contract due to his injury history and the fact that he is asking for 6 million dollars per year. Some idiot GM will probably give it to him too. Sensabaugh would be a considerable downgrade IMO. Crocker seems to be past his prime and Bigby is another guy with an injury history. Not too excited about this FA safety class.

Lucky
03-12-2013, 10:49 PM
As of March 9th, 2013, the Lions only have $5,361,000 in cap space.

LINK (http://www.freep.com/interactive/article/20130117/SPORTS01/130114053/detroit-lions-salary-cap-breakdown)

Yet, every free agent is rumored to be considering the Lions. Do these reporters ever bother to check the math?

Lucky
03-12-2013, 10:59 PM
Now people are saying that KJax is more important than Quin.
That's because Jackson outplayed Quin last season. People change their tune based upon how players perform. Jackson has come from sucks eggs to very good in 2 seasons. Quin has gone from so-so to OK.


I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin.


Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.
Forget for a moment what other posters think about Quin versus the other defenders. What do the Texans think? If the Texans felt that Quin was more important than Antonio Smith, they cut cut Smith and easily sign Quin. They could cut Manning (freeing up $2.5 million) and that would help secure Quin. But, they haven't. What does that tell you? Doesn't mean they don't like, or want Quin back. Just that there is a number that they think he's worth. And that there are players already under contract they value as much, or more.

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 11:02 PM
Forget for a moment what other posters think about Quin versus the other defenders. What do the Texans think? If the Texans felt that Quin was more important than Antonio Smith, they cut cut Smith and easily sign Quin. They could cut Manning (freeing up $2.5 million) and that would help secure Quin. But, they haven't. What does that tell you? Doesn't mean they don't like, or want Quin back. Just that there is a number that they think he's worth. And that there are players already under contract they value as much, or more.

It will obviously all come down to where the Texans value him. I believe that they should value him higher than others teams do, considering he is familiar with the scheme/coaches/players and fits it well. We shall see.

If they plan on cutting a player to free up cap room to resign Quin, I would think that they would go through some negotiations with Quin first to see where they need to be cap wise to make that move.

Lucky
03-12-2013, 11:07 PM
It will obviously all come down to where the Texans value him. I believe that they should value him higher than others teams do. We shall see.
That's absolutely fair. I haven't agreed with every decision the Texans have made (by a long shot). BTW, I still think Quin will end up back in Houston.

badboy
03-12-2013, 11:11 PM
Any chance Routt could play safety?

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 11:19 PM
Again, you're rewriting history. Anthony Weaver (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=23) didn't pan out, but there were only 2 DEs rated above him that did not sign with their original teams, making him the third rated DE available. That year, we signed both the 2nd rated available DE (ND Kalu) & the third.

Matt Schaub (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2007&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=10) was tendered with a first round pick. We traded 2 seconds to get him & signed him to a starter's contract.

I also believe Antonio Smith (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=23&yr=2009) was one of the top rated DEs at the time & we paid him a pretty penny as well.

Just saying.

Weaver was a Casserly bust and one of the big reasons that BoB is overly cautious about spending $$$$ in FA. (Thanks Charlie/Weaver)

Schaub was a trade aquisition not a FA.

A.Smith was a decent signing but not on the level of star power/higher coveted position CB vs DE than A.Smith was at the time.

infantrycak
03-12-2013, 11:28 PM
Schaub was a trade aquisition not a FA.

Schaub had received an RFA tender. The Texans worked out the alternative compensation and tender offer.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 11:30 PM
^^^^

Way to split hairs counselor

TexansSeminole
03-12-2013, 11:45 PM
That's because Jackson outplayed Quin last season. People change their tune based upon how players perform. Jackson has come from sucks eggs to very good in 2 seasons. Quin has gone from so-so to OK.

I have to disagree a bit with you here. I think Kjax and Quin were on pretty equal footing last year and Quin has been the more consistent. Quin is also asked to do alot more and his assignments are more difficult, to be honest. I'd take Quin over Jackson if I had to take one and only one for the same price.

Also, Jackson showed potential early on. I thought so anyway. His one deficiency was always his ability to turn and run and keep the receiver covered. He was always very good at covering slants and short routes, hardly ever allowed someone to break a tackle off of a short route and get extra yardage. When a guy has really only one, albeit major, deficiency there is usually hope that he will improve. I would agree he sucked pretty terribly, but it was always the same problem. He just had that one technique issue. It wasn't as if he was making all the mistakes in the book out there.

Playoffs
03-13-2013, 12:12 AM
Will the Lions have enough cap space to sign Quin?
Danial Jeremiah
I'm hearing Glover Quin is looking for about $5 mil per year. #FreeAgency

Brisco_County
03-13-2013, 12:44 AM
Edit: ^^ What he said.

TexanBacker93
03-13-2013, 01:07 AM
Hope you're right, I dont have a good feeling about this offseason for the Texans.

The 1 yr they spent on top tier FA's they made the playoffs. (Just Saying.)

I'm pretty sure they made it following a year where they didn't spend money on top tier FAs also.

The Third Man
03-13-2013, 02:34 AM
I'm going to say none. It didn't take a genius to figure out we needed help at CB & safety. It might be a coincidence that everyone else thought Jjo was the 2nd (maybe third but since Taylor resigned with the Steelers it doesn't matter) best corner available.

I doubt Wade walked in one day & said, "Forget that Aso Ashole.... I can make Jjo work."



Again, I doubt Wade crossed everyone else's name off the list & highlighted these two names. I seriously doubt that Watt was at the top of Wade's list.... the one Rick Smith gave him to begin with. & when Watt was available when our pick came, I don't think Wade snatched the card from Rick Smith & ran to the podium.

When that cupcake makes a star out of Braman or Crick, come holla, until then, I think he's getting way too much credit around here.

He deserves some, but this is a little overboard.




jmo.

I completely agree with you. Wade has been a solid defensive coordinator, but I don't see him as being an appreciably better coach than Kubiak. I've seen Kubiak's offense win Super Bowls. Can't say that about Wade.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 02:44 AM
I'm actually starting to warm up to the idea of letting Quin walk. As much as I value him being part of the defense I just wouldn't be ok if the Texans overpaid for him. A stop gap type of signing, and drafting at Safety to groom isn't sounding all that terrible right now. He does a lot for us, but I'd still love to have a safety who gets gets their hands on more balls.

rolyat93
03-13-2013, 03:17 AM
~5 mil. for Quin sounds reasonable, tbh.

aussie_texan
03-13-2013, 07:57 AM
~5 mil. for Quin sounds reasonable, tbh.

where would this rank among other safeties. 5mil sounds reasonable but if its in the top 5-6 safeties it might be a little excessive.

but i guess you got to pay your core players, and i certainly believe quin is one of them.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 08:49 AM
I have to disagree a bit with you here. I think Kjax and Quin were on pretty equal footing last year and Quin has been the more consistent. Quin is also asked to do alot more and his assignments are more difficult, to be honest. I'd take Quin over Jackson if I had to take one and only one for the same price.


Yeah........ I don't think you're going to sell Quin having more difficult assignments...... He's on the inside, the guy he's defending has a lot less options available to him. Kjax is on the edge, on an island & his guy can go anywhere he wants & is faster & many times just as physical.

But, it don't matter.

Jjo & Manning were the stars of our secondary in 2011. Hands down, without question, it was Kj & Quin in 2012.

I know people don't like to blame the deep safety for a lot of our issues, but.... Since Keo & Demps suck, & Cushing was hurt, DManning was asked to man up much more often in 2012 than in 2011, when he played center field for us.... & he was a damn good center fielder.

Next year, if we get a badass back in Cushing & Jjo is healthy, our defense would be sick if Quin returns. If not, our new ILB better be a badass, or we'll be dropping Manning into man coverage more often & he's just not as affective as Quin, imo. I don't care that he used to be a corner, I don't care that he did it in Chicago. He's not as good a tackler, he's not as physical at the line, or as hard a hitter as Quin. Manning is faster, has much better range, has better ball skills, but I'd much rather see Demps playing man coverage, with Manning playing center field. We'll get the same crappy coverage, but someone on the back end who might force a turnover.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 09:03 AM
He does a lot for us, but I'd still love to have a safety who gets gets their hands on more balls.

Jj Watt had 16 passes defensed. KJax had 16 passes defense & 4 Ints. Quin had 14 passes defensed with 2 INTs & 2 FF.

Jarius Byrd had 6 passes defensed with 5 INTs & 4 FF.


~5 mil. for Quin sounds reasonable, tbh.

I agree with rolyat93. If we're talking about overpaying him 6 or 10 million/yr, hell no. But if we're talking one or two million a year? I value him as a $4M/yr player.

Overpaying by a million or two shouldn't be a problem. If that's all Quin is looking for, it should have been a done deal.

IDEXAN
03-13-2013, 09:03 AM
Forget for a moment what other posters think about Quin versus the other defenders. What do the Texans think? If the Texans felt that Quin was more important than Antonio Smith, they cut cut Smith and easily sign Quin. They could cut Manning (freeing up $2.5 million) and that would help secure Quin. But, they haven't. What does that tell you? Doesn't mean they don't like, or want Quin back. Just that there is a number that they think he's worth. And that there are players already under contract they value as much, or more.
Good point, Antonio is more valuable than Quin, though by virtue of being about 5 years younger than Smith my instincts would almost edge me to retaining Quin over Smith. And Kareem is certainly more important, after all he's a corner and Quin is just a safety. So I've seen your claim that Quin is only about our 7th best defensive starter, plus he plays probably the least indespensible position in Wade's defensive, so I say bring him back but not at an unreasonably high price. We still may be able to grab some vet help at edge-rusher or WR in FA if we hold some cap space in reserve.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 09:14 AM
Jj Watt had 16 passes defensed. KJax had 16 passes defense & 4 Ints. Quin had 14 passes defensed with 2 INTs & 2 FF.

Jarius Byrd had 6 passes defensed with 5 INTs & 4 FF.

Oddly enough I don't view Byrd as a ball hawking safety myself. If you look at a lot of his early INTs they weren't really overly impressive to me. Quin to me is very good for what we ask him to do in this defense. It just comes down to personal preference in wanting a safety that is a part of more turnovers if the opportunity arises.

Should Quin come back then I'd be happy along with everyone else within reason. But I'm preparing myself that its a possibility it won't happen. Just don't think losing him and drafting a future replacement, and signing a team friendly contract with a veteran would be the end of the world.

gwallaia
03-13-2013, 09:34 AM
I still remember when Quin batted the ball straight back to the Jaguar receiver giving the Jags the Hail-Mary win. We all hated Glover that day.

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 09:39 AM
I'm pretty sure they made it following a year where they didn't spend money on top tier FAs also.

Because they spent the $$$$ to get top tier FA's the yr before.

Jeez, you cant see that getting premium level talent for the 1st time in Texans history led to them becoming a multiple time playoff team.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 09:52 AM
I think we gave DManning a four-year deal worth $20 million, with $9 million in guarantees. I'd offer no more than around 80% of what we gave Manning. Around 4 million a year with about 7 guaranteed.

deucetx
03-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Yeah........ I don't think you're going to sell Quin having more difficult assignments...... He's on the inside, the guy he's defending has a lot less options available to him. Kjax is on the edge, on an island & his guy can go anywhere he wants & is faster & many times just as physical.

But, it don't matter.

Jjo & Manning were the stars of our secondary in 2011. Hands down, without question, it was Kj & Quin in 2012.

I know people don't like to blame the deep safety for a lot of our issues, but.... Since Keo & Demps suck, & Cushing was hurt, DManning was asked to man up much more often in 2012 than in 2011, when he played center field for us.... & he was a damn good center fielder.

Next year, if we get a badass back in Cushing & Jjo is healthy, our defense would be sick if Quin returns. If not, our new ILB better be a badass, or we'll be dropping Manning into man coverage more often & he's just not as affective as Quin, imo. I don't care that he used to be a corner, I don't care that he did it in Chicago. He's not as good a tackler, he's not as physical at the line, or as hard a hitter as Quin. Manning is faster, has much better range, has better ball skills, but I'd much rather see Demps playing man coverage, with Manning playing center field. We'll get the same crappy coverage, but someone on the back end who might force a turnover.

Heh, I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. You want to dismiss everything for what you believe. For instance, Manning isn't as good a tackler yet has had less missed tackles while he's been here than Quin (Q - 21; Manning - 9). He had less missed tackles than Quin even when he manned SS for the Bears as well. In other words, he's a sure tackler.

Or that you say Quin was the star of our secondary last year yet he allowed 6 passing touchdowns which is more than anyone else in the secondary (only by one though). And of course here is one of the bigger things most seem to be completely forgetting and dismissing...

With the concept Manning couldn't do what Quin does (as the other poster states as well) yet in Wade's system the safeties are interchangable. They do the same job at different points in a game. it's why we got rid of Pollard. Wade doesn't just sit you in the box. You have to do both jobs. Manning and Quin did it last year as did Demps as well.

I think in another post you said the faults of the secondary fell on Manning/Joseph. Manning was targetted only 41 times last season which makes that difficult for him to achieve (lowest among starters). He allowed 380 yards, Quin 463. No, I'm not saying Manning was better. I'm saying they were rather similar in play. Both were 'solid' not exceptional.

Oh and Joseph didn't have a top notch season but not as bad you are painting. He allowed one touchdown despite being targetted 92 times. His fault was he gave more cushion last season than usual so allowed more underneath throws but wouldn't let anyone just straight beat him. His worse games were Jets and Packers who got over 100 on him.

If wondering Quin allowed one 100 yard game against the Colts. Manning never did. Kareem twice against Denver and Jacksonville.

I do agree though in regards to assignments that Jax would draw more difficult ones than the safeties. Not to mention they are targetted much more. LOL heck, Jax had to cover Calvin Johnson and it doesn't get more tough than that one.

I say $5mil is a good price as well and it seems that is what Quin is seeking. Hopefully Smith has that on the table.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 10:27 AM
Good news everyone! The Lions just spent some cap space on someone not named Glover!

Chris Houston has agreed to terms with the Detroit Lions

Brisco_County
03-13-2013, 10:40 AM
Good news everyone! The Lions just spent some cap space on someone not named Glover!

Which other teams are looking for a safety in free agency?

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 10:44 AM
Which other teams are looking for a safety in free agency?

Oh geeze, lots... that's why the safety market is flooded with them right now. Lots of them had expiring deals this year and that means a lot of teams lost their starters (for now). Off the top of my head:

Ravens
Texans
Patriots
Panthers
Bengals
Browns
Redskins
Jags
49ers
Titans
Cowboys
Lions

It's an open market.

ChampionTexan
03-13-2013, 10:47 AM
Good news everyone! The Lions just spent some cap space on someone not named Glover!

Yeah, but everything I see indicates the Lions had about $9 Million in cap space going into free agency in spite of the post in this thread indicating a little more than $5 Mill. Plus Stafford and Suh both have contracts that could be restructured and/or extended to create a pretty fair amount of additional space if they want to go that route.

TexanBacker93
03-13-2013, 10:55 AM
Because they spent the $$$$ to get top tier FA's the yr before.

Jeez, you cant see that getting premium level talent for the 1st time in Texans history led to them becoming a multiple time playoff team.

I realize that it helped us become a multiple time playoff team. Getting better coaching on the defensive side of the ball, drafting a couple of starting defensive players also contributed. I was being slightly sarcastic, but you can't go out and spend that way each year. The fact that we did in 2011 and had to pay a premium hurts us right now. Bringing in the top guys every year doesn't work. On a cap of 120ish million you can't give everyone $5 million. If you have a few players making $10 million it's even harder.

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 11:17 AM
~5 mil. for Quin sounds reasonable, tbh.

Sign Quin for 4.5, then DHB for 3.5 and you've had a good offseason.

Honoring Earl 34
03-13-2013, 11:21 AM
Sign Quin for 4.5, then DHB for 3.5 and you've had a good offseason.

Yep ... DHB isn't your typical Texan type but he would catch the defenses attention . Get stick um legalized again for him also .

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 11:25 AM
I realize that it helped us become a multiple time playoff team. Getting better coaching on the defensive side of the ball, drafting a couple of starting defensive players also contributed. I was being slightly sarcastic, but you can't go out and spend that way each year. The fact that we did in 2011 and had to pay a premium hurts us right now. Bringing in the top guys every year doesn't work. On a cap of 120ish million you can't give everyone $5 million. If you have a few players making $10 million it's even harder.

Agreed

But they have the $$$$ to sign Quin and a WR like DHB or Ramses-Barden in FA if they wanted too. I get that they couldn't sign a big name FA last, Rick's mismanagenent of the cap isn't allowing the Texans to be players in FA this yr.

It looks like Quin is going to walk because Rick is trying to squeeze him. He probably will take the same or less $$$$ in Detroit becuse of Ricks negotiating style.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 11:43 AM
Yeah, but everything I see indicates the Lions had about $9 Million in cap space going into free agency in spite of the post in this thread indicating a little more than $5 Mill. Plus Stafford and Suh both have contracts that could be restructured and/or extended to create a pretty fair amount of additional space if they want to go that route.

Maybe, but they gave CB Chris Houston 5 years 25 million, which eats up a lot of their cap space. They also have Reggie Bush and Jason Jones visiting along with Quin. I would be surprised if they signed all three of them, but we shall see.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 12:02 PM
And the Lions sign Jason Jones, no word on the size of the deal yet.

@caplannfl
DT Jason Jones agreed to a deal with the Lions, according to his agent, Mike McCartney.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 01:20 PM
Reggie Bush signs with Lions

dtran04
03-13-2013, 01:22 PM
Looks like the Texans played their cards right. Not sure how the Lions got him to make a visit when he was clearly at the bottom of their priority list.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 01:22 PM
Sign Quin for 4.5, then DHB for 3.5 and you've had a good offseason.

Going out on a limb, but I think DHB is going to get more than $3.5M/yr, his 2013 cap hit will be more than $3.5M

But yeah, I'd sign Quin for $4.5 & DHB for $3.5.... I'm sure Rick Smith would too. But I think it's going to cost more for both.

WolverineFan
03-13-2013, 01:29 PM
So the same board that despised Jacoby Jones wants us to sign Heyward-Bey...?

That is ridiculous.

Ktexan68
03-13-2013, 01:30 PM
So the same board that despised Jacoby Jones wants us to sign Heyward-Bey...?

That is ridiculous.

QFT

Maddict5
03-13-2013, 01:33 PM
with the lions signing 3 sizeable deals, i think its looking better that we keep GQ

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 02:32 PM
He gone :(

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Detroit's haul continues: Former Texans S Glover Quin reached agreement with the Lions.

Trap_Star
03-13-2013, 02:33 PM
its official per schefter, quin is a lion.

MistaRed
03-13-2013, 02:34 PM
with the lions signing 3 sizeable deals, i think its looking better that we keep GQ

So much for that.

TexanSam
03-13-2013, 02:34 PM
He gone :(

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Detroit's haul continues: Former Texans S Glover Quin reached agreement with the Lions.

Well damn. Best of luck to him. Safety just became a huge need. We absolutely cannot go into this coming season with Keo as a starter.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 02:35 PM
LOL Rick Smifffff

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 02:36 PM
Big reason why I was resigned to the fact that we're moving on without him yesteday. One of the tough parts of drafting well. I'd take Woodson for a 2 year deal, and take a safety in the 3rd.

Rey
03-13-2013, 02:37 PM
Barwin to eagles as well

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 02:39 PM
Maybe that's why they reached out to Charles Woodson.

srrono
03-13-2013, 02:40 PM
Sad to see GQ go. I don't know how we are going to replace his on the field impact. This so far is a really depressing off season.

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 02:40 PM
So yeah.

We better sign some vets in here. If we depend on rookies to fill their spots we will deserve what we get. Which is likely wildcard exit...if lucky.

JamesBill
03-13-2013, 02:40 PM
Barwin to eagles as well

Nothing compared to the loss of Glover. We have good backups for Barwin, with Quinn we have jack and ****.........(aka Keo). I'm not sure WTF they were thinking.

TexanSam
03-13-2013, 02:41 PM
Barwin to eagles as well

Are they trying to become Houston-East?

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 02:42 PM
Maybe that's why they reached out to Charles Woodson.

What makes y'all think we can pay Woodson if we couldn't afford to pay Quin?

Rey
03-13-2013, 02:43 PM
Nothing compared to the loss of Glover. We have good backups for Barwin, with Quinn we have jack and ****.........(aka Keo). I'm not sure WTF they were thinking.

I don't care about either one.

Just sharing news.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 02:44 PM
Nothing compared to the loss of Glover. We have good backups for Barwin, with Quinn we have jack and ****.........(aka Keo). I'm not sure WTF they were thinking.

Let's at least wait until the off-season moves to its second phase before we pretend as if the Texans don't have a plan. I'm like you in that I have no clue what it is, but I do believe they have one.

Rey
03-13-2013, 02:46 PM
What makes y'all think we can pay Woodson if we couldn't afford to pay Quin?

I don't think Woodson would want to come here anyways.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 02:48 PM
What makes y'all think we can pay Woodson if we couldn't afford to pay Quin?

Woodson would probably command about the same money yearly with less years added onto the agreement. I'm not a contract guru, but we're going to have to shell out some money for JJ, Cush, and Kjax soon. Won't be cheap for those three.

Ktexan68
03-13-2013, 02:49 PM
This is terrible news.

wolf123
03-13-2013, 02:52 PM
What a crappy day... We have no one who can play FS and now were stuck with Reed at OLB. Pass rush is weakened and our coverage...:overreact:

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 02:58 PM
Woodson would probably command about the same money yearly with less years added onto the agreement. I'm not a contract guru, but we're going to have to shell out some money for JJ, Cush, and Kjax soon. Won't be cheap for those three.

JJ will be the most expensive player we likely ever pay.

Right now though the Texans need to worry about right now and building the best team they can. When the time comes for JJ and Cushing they can deal with that when the time comes but they need to be building a team that has a legit shot at winning the superbowl.

I won't get angry now, but if they are going to trot out a young inexperienced player at safety then we can all look forward to much of the same from last year barring a guy like Merciless bursting onto the scene as a star pass rusher or something.

HoustonFrog
03-13-2013, 03:00 PM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Hold off on Glover Quin's agreement with Detroit. Another source said, Not so fast. Situations in free agency, as we see, can be fluid.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 03:00 PM
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Hold off on Glover Quin's agreement with Detroit. Another source said, Not so fast. Situations in free agency, as we see, can be fluid.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 03:05 PM
JJ will be the most expensive player we likely ever pay.

Right now though the Texans need to worry about right now and building the best team they can. When the time comes for JJ and Cushing they can deal with that when the time comes but they need to be building a team that has a legit shot at winning the superbowl.

I won't get angry now, but if they are going to trot out a young inexperienced player at safety then we can all look forward to much of the same from last year barring a guy like Merciless bursting onto the scene as a star pass rusher or something.

Its hard to get angry when we don't know what product we're going to put on the field. I understand what you're saying on worrying about the now, but I'm sure Glover's deal in going to be in the range of 5 years. I have the feeling the Texans plan is to get a vet and draft a replacement who we can groom for a year or 2.

I'm pretty sure they may take care of JJ after next year so we have to stay reasonably cheap in some areas. It sucks, but its the nature of the beast.

Nawzer
03-13-2013, 03:10 PM
So yeah.

We better sign some vets in here. If we depend on rookies to fill their spots we will deserve what we get. Which is likely wildcard exit...if lucky.

Even if we brought back all of our FAs, I was of the opinion we'd be a wild card team at best. I see the Colts winning AFC South this year. And now, if we're losing Quin and Barwin it's going to be even harder.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 03:14 PM
So the same board that despised Jacoby Jones wants us to sign Heyward-Bey...?

That is ridiculous.

I loved Jacoby.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 03:18 PM
Its hard to get angry when we don't know what product we're going to put on the field.

It's hard to get upset until we find out what he signed for. If he signed for $4-5M..... I'm upset (if he signed that is). If it's $6M+, it was nice knowing ya...

Rey
03-13-2013, 03:19 PM
Even if we brought back all of our FAs, I was of the opinion we'd be a wild card team at best. I see the Colts winning AFC South this year. And now, if we're losing Quin and Barwin it's going to be even harder.

Before this I thought we'd be pressing for a play off spot. I don't think we'll win the division as is. Barwin, Quinn have little to do with my opinion.

It's hard for me to find enthusiasm right now as I see next season as being a big let down. I can't see the draft changing my feelings, but I'll reserve complete judgment until closer to the season. As of right now though this is about as least interested as I've been in the texans since day 1. I'm not feeling it.

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 03:19 PM
Its hard to get angry when we don't know what product we're going to put on the field. I understand what you're saying on worrying about the now, but I'm sure Glover's deal in going to be in the range of 5 years. I have the feeling the Texans plan is to get a vet and draft a replacement who we can groom for a year or 2.

I'm pretty sure they may take care of JJ after next year so we have to stay reasonably cheap in some areas. It sucks, but its the nature of the beast.

I agree, I'm not angry at them I'm just wondering what the plan is really. It looks like the Quin deal is not official, seemed that way since it was Schefter reporting it. I also think the plan was to sign a vet and draft a guy to eventually replace him in a year or two.

Even if we brought back all of our FAs, I was of the opinion we'd be a wild card team at best. I see the Colts winning AFC South this year. And now, if we're losing Quin and Barwin it's going to be even harder.

Well we will see. I don't think the Colts will be that great personally. They had a emotional year and the games they won they barely won. Not a lot of talent on that team and the guys they have signed are 'meh' guys.

It's the NFL and if a team does good for one year, good for them. We always see this though, a team gets hot for a year maybe even make the playoffs and then the next year go to being what people expected them to be. So the verdict is still out on them for me until they prove it again. If they had all this talent on the team then yeah...but I look at the roster and think "Whose there?" one QB isn't going to carry the entire team. Those old Manning colts were loaded with talent though.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 03:22 PM
Tap, tap, tap

Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
ESPN's initial report withdrawn, and we are also told that the #Texans are still in play for S Glover Quin.

Ryan
03-13-2013, 03:22 PM
.



Well we will see. I don't think the Colts will be that great personally. They had a emotional year and the games they won they barely won. Not a lot of talent on that team and the guys they have signed are 'meh' guys.

It's the NFL and if a team does good for one year, good for them. We always see this though, a team gets hot for a year maybe even make the playoffs and then the next year go to being what people expected them to be. So the verdict is still out on them for me until they prove it again. If they had all this talent on the team then yeah...but I look at the roster and think "Whose there?" one QB isn't going to carry the entire team. Those old Manning colts were loaded with talent though.


I agree for sure. I see the Colts as a 9-7 team that could be on the outside looking in for a wild card.

Playoffs
03-13-2013, 03:23 PM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
Texans a complete and utter mess at safety outside of D Manning. I assume they already have a deal in place with a veteran

Bad news for Texans. RT @ttwentyman: Lions have agreed to terms on a five-year deal with S Glover Quin, according to league source.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 03:23 PM
Now it's done. Smdh

Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter
And now Lions web site just tweeted Detroit has a five-year deal with former Texans S Glover Quin. Glad they saw things my way..

Vance87
03-13-2013, 03:23 PM
It's official.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
And now Lions web site just tweeted Detroit has a five-year deal with former Texans S Glover Quin. Glad they saw things my way..

Vance87
03-13-2013, 03:24 PM
Damn, we're on the ball, haha.

texanhead08
03-13-2013, 03:27 PM
We are so ****ed

ASidd_1990
03-13-2013, 03:27 PM
Ed muthafuggin reed!

TexanSam
03-13-2013, 03:28 PM
We are so ****ed

Why? Because we lost a below average linebacker, an average fullback, and a good (but replaceable) safety?

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 03:29 PM
I agree for sure. I see the Colts as a 9-7 team that could be on the outside looking in for a wild card.

I think they are a 9-7 at best...and you'll find Texan fans more optimistic about the Colts than colts fans funnily enough. They just don't have the depth or talent you'd expect from a team that is a 'Lock' for winning the division like some have them here for some reason.

Meanwhile the Texans have several all-pro players on offense and defense. Not sure why Texan fans wouldn't be more confident of this team winning the division. The other three teams are all rebuilding and this team just went 12-4.

Casey, is good but if we can get a grinding FB then that may be better for Arian.

Barwin is very much replaceable.

Quinn will be hard to replace. I hope the Texans sign a vet though to do so, my perfect scenario is getting Ed Reed mainly because the teams we are trying to beat are the Patriots and Ravens...and Reed knows how to beat the Patriots and by getting him we'd take away the last leader Baltimore has.

Wait and see, I just hope they have a plan for losing Glover.

ASidd_1990
03-13-2013, 03:34 PM
Ed muthafuggin reed!

Please get r done rick!

Vance87
03-13-2013, 03:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRtD4vdN45M

Get acquainted

Section516
03-13-2013, 03:38 PM
Lions are really going to be in a cap pickle soon - mortgaged their future for right now. Will be interesting.

srrono
03-13-2013, 03:38 PM
I guess we need to ready to lose Cushing next yr and Watt the year after as of now I have zero confidence in the HOU front office to get deals done.:voodoo:

chicagotexan2
03-13-2013, 03:41 PM
Losing Quin sucks for my team. This team was weak on defense to begin with. I hear Bernard pollard is available. Just kidding. This dyke has so many leaks.

Mr teX
03-13-2013, 03:52 PM
Eh, i'm not too upset I would've liked for him to stay but oh well.....i have enough faith in the FO to feel that they would've resigned him long ago if they really wanted him back. That's what they do with all of their top guys.....my guess is that they wanted him back, but weren't going to be too upset if he walked. Kinda how felt about him all pretty much all of our FA crop this year.

CretorFrigg
03-13-2013, 03:53 PM
Houston FO is a joke. We can't resign anybody.

Okay, I get it, we can't resign everybody because there are other teams bidding for our players. But why the hell can't we sign a FA? It's not like we need the cap space to sign Glover Quin or James Casey.

Nawzer
03-13-2013, 03:55 PM
Don't really care if we loose Barwin because we at least have a guy to replace him with. As far as Quin, he finally solidified a long time hole in our defense. Back to the revolving door players at the safety position.

LikeMike
03-13-2013, 03:55 PM
I really don't like losing him. Our safety play was really bad for a lot of years and was finally clicking the last two. Now we have another hole to fill. The draft will be interesting...

I really hope we add a quality Rt via free agency as I think that was our biggest hole last year.

76Texan
03-13-2013, 03:56 PM
JJ will be the most expensive player we likely ever pay.

Right now though the Texans need to worry about right now and building the best team they can. When the time comes for JJ and Cushing they can deal with that when the time comes but they need to be building a team that has a legit shot at winning the superbowl.

I won't get angry now, but if they are going to trot out a young inexperienced player at safety then we can all look forward to much of the same from last year barring a guy like Merciless bursting onto the scene as a star pass rusher or something.
Watt and Cushing should be TWO BIG reasons why the Texans should be patient. They will make tons of money if they stay healthy and the Texans need to save every penny they got for them.

Section516
03-13-2013, 03:56 PM
I also could see Huff coming in..Lots of safeties out there.

Fili
03-13-2013, 03:56 PM
:sweep:

htowntexans1985
03-13-2013, 03:59 PM
Welp time to throw my quin jersey in the garbage. Damn. Smh.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 04:02 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Now that Glover Quin is signing with the Lions, Texans will turn their attention to another veteran safety to replace him.

deucetx
03-13-2013, 04:05 PM
Any details on the contract? Haven't seen anything except 5-year deal. I won't blame the front office if Lions overpaid to blow Houston's offer (whatever it was...) out the water. But if not then folks will have reason to be pissed.

dalemurphy
03-13-2013, 04:06 PM
Houston FO is a joke. We can't resign anybody.

Okay, I get it, we can't resign everybody because there are other teams bidding for our players. But why the hell can't we sign a FA? It's not like we need the cap space to sign Glover Quin or James Casey.

Packers and Patriots have lost (or are losing) the following players and have not re-signed any:

Welker, Jennings, Eric Walden, Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer, Charles Woodson, Talib, Brad Jones, Donald Thomas, and others.


Let's allow the process to happen. We are 24 hours in and there are over 400 free agents on the street and somewhere between 50-70 of the top 100 free agents to hit the market still unsigned.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Good grief!

Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
Wow, Glover Quin's agent just told me the #Texans never made an official offer for him. They talked conceptually at the combine.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 04:20 PM
I feel a little better now. I didn't want to go over 4.....not that what I want matters, just saying

Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
And, as @rapsheet reported, Quin's deal with the Lions is around $5 million a year for five years. #Texans

Rey
03-13-2013, 04:20 PM
Good grief!

That tells ms that the texans eithe didn't want Quinn at all or Quinn didn't want to be here at all or the lions offer was so outrageous that the texans didn't bother to counter.

rolyat93
03-13-2013, 04:22 PM
Damn, I really like Glover too. Sucks to see him go, we need to sign a legit starting Safety because we have nobody on this roster that's quality, imo.(Save Manning.)

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 04:22 PM
Watt and Cushing should be TWO BIG reasons why the Texans should be patient. They will make tons of money if they stay healthy and the Texans need to save every penny they got for them.

The problem is though that the NFL is very much about "If you aren't getting better then you're getting worse."

They can't just stand pat for a year, that one year backwards could be huge.

Teams like the 9ers are getting better. Broncos may be getting Wes Welker whose perfect for Manning.

The Eagles seem to throw money around every year.

I think it's a legit question if the Texans manage their cap well enough. Signing Watt is a no brainer obviously you give him a blank check...but you know I'd rather sign all the best players I could right now, win a superbowl...then cut and let a bunch of guys go and try over again then doing nothing with the money and having it stashed away.

I just think in the NFL you need to think about short term as much as possible. Players sometimes have extremely short prime years and if Watt is going to play like this and Andre is on his last legs then we need to do all we can to give these guys a legit shot at winning a championship next year, not two years down the road.

Any ways, that's just how I feel. It's not about Glover leaving. He's a good player but I'm just hoping the Texans aren't going to just sit here and hope some first round draft pick is going to pan out right away for us...because that isn't going to work and meanwhile all our best players get a year older and the window gets a inch closer to being shut.

eriadoc
03-13-2013, 04:23 PM
That tells ms that the texans eithe didn't want Quinn at all or Quinn didn't want to be here at all or the lions offer was so outrageous that the texans didn't bother to counter.

Lots of anecdotal stories out there about Rick Smith pissing off players. He's built himself a rep.

JCTexan
03-13-2013, 04:24 PM
Watt and Cushing should be TWO BIG reasons why the Texans should be patient. They will make tons of money if they stay healthy and the Texans need to save every penny they got for them.

This. Losing Quin is upsetting, but you have to lose the Quin's, Barwin's & Casey's to pay Cushing & Watt in the future. In fact, it wouldn't bother me if all Houston does this off-season is extend those two...

pec0sb0b
03-13-2013, 04:25 PM
Get used to the post rookie salary cap NFL. Teams will focus on getting value from players on their rookie contracts. Most players will not see a second contract from the team that drafted them. Most free-agent signings will be for depth.

Hagar
03-13-2013, 04:26 PM
Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
Wow, Glover Quin's agent just told me the #Texans never made an official offer for him. They talked conceptually at the combine.

Eh, that's probably about right. Quin's job was to play deep center field and he let people beat him for the long ball. I wish him the best.

76Texan
03-13-2013, 04:30 PM
The Niners were standing pat with Alex Smith for awhile and the Broncos were stuck with some mediocre-poor QB play for awhile.

The Broncos will soon find themselves losing players; I'm thinking next year.
I haven't looked into the Niners situation yet so I don't what kind of cap situation they're in.

Nowadays, most teams that are perennial play-off contenders don't have a lot of cap space. The good players always want more money on their next contract. That's just the way it is; you can't keep all the players, and you can't sign big FA every year unless you let go of some good players yourself (so that you have the money and or cap space.)

SW H-TOWN
03-13-2013, 04:31 PM
Cant wait to see how much he signed for. Has that info come out yet... I can't find it. If he signed at or below 4m per year I'm going to be pissed. If they overpaid him then I understand the decision. I think Mikell or Huff would be good siginings. Landry wants 6m per year so that is not going to happen. Hopefully we can get a good deal on a Safety and take a look at Roy Miller. He did a great job against the run last year and should not cost too much to sign.

Rey
03-13-2013, 04:31 PM
Lots of anecdotal stories out there about Rick Smith pissing off players. He's built himself a rep.

Based on what he signed for I'm guessing Quinn wasn't in love with the texans. 5 mil a year isn't outrageous. If he wanted to stay here maybe he'd have done 4.5...

Or maybe the texans didn't want to pay anymore than 2 or 3 mil a year for him.

I know about the Rick smith rumblings though. Seth Payne had a not so glowing story to tell a couple of days ago where the texans supposedly played mind games with him trying to get him to take a pay cut.


I don't think you have to be buddy, buddy with guys as a gm, but they at least need to have some respect for you.

ASidd_1990
03-13-2013, 04:31 PM
LOL wow at that report! Didn't even give him an official offer? This FO is truly inept SMH.

They better have a plan in place or Rick Smith needs to be gone ASAP!

76Texan
03-13-2013, 04:34 PM
Fiasco, there was an Eagle fan that used to post a lot on the old Texans board.

I learned from him that Reid is usually pretty tight with contracts.
He cut or trade away expensive players all the time.

And let's not forget, that dream team should have been called Nightmare in Philly.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 04:36 PM
Justin Forsett‏@JForsett
Just to keep you posted my first visit is set with Jacksonville #FreeAgency

TheMatrix31
03-13-2013, 04:37 PM
Hate using Glover. Dude really improved as a player over time.

Now the question is what happens. I don't want to rely on a rookie in the secondary.

JCTexan
03-13-2013, 04:37 PM
Five years, 25 Million...

Lions agreed to terms with SS Glover Quin on a five-year, $25 million contract.

Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/257898/for-real-lions-close-5-year-deal-with-s-quin)

wolf123
03-13-2013, 04:38 PM
LOL wow at that report! Didn't even give him an official offer? This FO is truly inept SMH.

They better have a plan in place or Rick Smith needs to be gone ASAP!

So glad you decided to share your wisdom with us...:spit:

eriadoc
03-13-2013, 04:39 PM
I don't think you have to be buddy, buddy with guys as a gm, but they at least need to have some respect for you.

Agreed. And even more importantly, players have to trust that you're as good as your word. It's just like any business.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 04:39 PM
Five years, 25 Million...



Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/257898/for-real-lions-close-5-year-deal-with-s-quin)

Per year basis, that's what we gave Daniel Manning. Seems a bit pricey for Quin. I'll be interested in seeing how the money is structured.

76Texan
03-13-2013, 04:40 PM
Five years, 25 Million...



Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/257898/for-real-lions-close-5-year-deal-with-s-quin)

Too rich, I'm afraid.

silvrhand
03-13-2013, 04:43 PM
Five years, 25 Million...



Link (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/257898/for-real-lions-close-5-year-deal-with-s-quin)

No way is he worth 5 million a year... not at this point in his career, he had one good season at safety and this moves him into the top 5 salary... these guys are getting some crazy offers..

fiasco west
03-13-2013, 04:43 PM
The Niners were standing pat with Alex Smith for awhile and the Broncos were stuck with some mediocre-poor QB play for awhile.

The Broncos will soon find themselves losing players; I'm thinking next year.
I haven't looked into the Niners situation yet so I don't what kind of cap situation they're in.

Nowadays, most teams that are perennial play-off contenders don't have a lot of cap space. The good players always want more money on their next contract. That's just the way it is; you can't keep all the players, and you can't sign big FA every year unless you let go of some good players yourself (so that you have the money and or cap space.)

Yeah but if the Bronco's go on to win the superbowl then it won't matter. Mission accomplished.

The Ravens signed a bunch of our guys but those guys paid off huge for them. Yeah they are losing most of their players but it was worth it.

All I'm saying is, a rookie or Keo at safety is likely going to be a huge hole. Big enough that it pretty much will put us at 'Pretender' status for most of next year.

We need a vet. I'm not angry at losing Quin yet...I'm just anxious and hopeful that Rick Smith won't try to rely on the draft to fill that hole. I love Rick Smith's drafting, he drafts studs...but they sometimes take a year or two to show their worth.

I'm not sure Andre has a year or two...and Foster is a RB whose career could take a down turn at any year because he's a RB.

Brisco_County
03-13-2013, 04:47 PM
Watt and Cushing should be TWO BIG reasons why the Texans should be patient. They will make tons of money if they stay healthy and the Texans need to save every penny they got for them.

JJ Watt is going to be a $100 million contract extension two years from now. That's after re-signing Cushing. You have to start preparing for that right now.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 04:48 PM
No way is he worth 5 million a year... not at this point in his career, he had one good season at safety and this moves him into the top 5 salary... these guys are getting some crazy offers..

Salary isn't the only compensation though, his AAV is 5 million a year, which puts him around 15th overall in the NFL. There are still some other safeties out there that may sign for more than that this FA period, but he's not being grossly overpaid. Given his age and experience, 5m isn't bad for him, but it's too much for the Texans to spend.

eriadoc
03-13-2013, 04:49 PM
JJ Watt is going to be a $100 million contract extension two years from now. That's after re-signing Cushing. You have to start preparing for that right now.

It's pretty hard to win as a team when you have that much of your cap tied up in one guy, especially when he isn't a QB.

deucetx
03-13-2013, 04:49 PM
I thought $5mil may have been okay for the Texans but guess not. Well best of luck to Quin on some occassion because I am still also a Bears fan lol. Time to see what plan we have in place. You guys are right though when I think about it. We have two rather big contracts coming in Cush and Watt. Got to be in a good place.

rolyat93
03-13-2013, 04:50 PM
It's pretty hard to win as a team when you have that much of your cap tied up in one guy, especially when he isn't a QB.

Easier when it's JJ Watt though.

silvrhand
03-13-2013, 04:58 PM
Salary isn't the only compensation though, his AAV is 5 million a year, which puts him around 15th overall in the NFL. There are still some other safeties out there that may sign for more than that this FA period, but he's not being grossly overpaid. Given his age and experience, 5m isn't bad for him, but it's too much for the Texans to spend.

Really you think he's better than some of these guys?

Adrian Wilson, Cardinals - $10,550,000 - Signed thru 2013
Troy Polamalu, Steelers - $8,890,000 - Signed thru 2014
Roman Harper, Saints - $6,250,000 - Signed thru 2012
Tyvon Branch, Raiders - $6,212,000 - Signed thru 2012
Eric Berry, Chiefs - $4,842,800 - Signed thru 2014
Donte Whitner, 49ers - $4,383,333 - Signed thru 2013
Brandon Meriwwather, Bears - $2.950,000 - Signed thru 2013
Kenny Phillips, Giants - $2,586,000 - Signed thru 2012
Bernard Pollard, Ravens - $1,950,000 - Signed thru 2015
George Wilson, Bills - $1,791,666 - Signed thru 2013
Will Allen, Steelers - $1,605,000 - Signed thru 2012
Yeremiah Bell, Jets - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2012
Jordan Babineaux, Titans - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2013
Eric Frampton, Vikings - $1,233,333 - Signed thru 2013
Brodney Pool, Cowboys - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
Craig Dahl, Rams - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
Reed Doughty, Redskins - $1,150,000 - Signed thru 2013
Pat Chung, Patriots - $1,115,000 - Signed thru 2012
C.J. Spillman, 49ers - $1,080,000 - Signed thru 2014
T.J. Ward, Browns - $1,058,750 - Signed thru 2013

SW H-TOWN
03-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Tania Ganguli@taniaganguli Wow, Glover Quin's agent just told me the #Texans never made an official offer for him. They talked conceptually at the combine.

I'm starting to believe that if you hear that the guy is a top priority that is FO speak for don't let the door hit you on the way out. We should of at least made him an offer before he hit the open market, damn. Hope we sign a vet who is not a downgrade.

Rey
03-13-2013, 05:02 PM
Quinn took 97% of the snaps last year is a stat I heard.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Cardinals cut Kerry Rhodes

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 05:12 PM
Really you think he's better than some of these guys?

Adrian Wilson, Cardinals - $10,550,000 - Signed thru 2013 NO
Troy Polamalu, Steelers - $8,890,000 - Signed thru 2014 NO
Roman Harper, Saints - $6,250,000 - Signed thru 2012 NO
Tyvon Branch, Raiders - $6,212,000 - Signed thru 2012 YES
Eric Berry, Chiefs - $4,842,800 - Signed thru 2014 NO
Donte Whitner, 49ers - $4,383,333 - Signed thru 2013 NO
Brandon Meriwwather, Bears - $2.950,000 - Signed thru 2013 YES
Kenny Phillips, Giants - $2,586,000 - Signed thru 2012 NO
Bernard Pollard, Ravens - $1,950,000 - Signed thru 2015 YES
George Wilson, Bills - $1,791,666 - Signed thru 2013 DUNNO
Will Allen, Steelers - $1,605,000 - Signed thru 2012 YES
Yeremiah Bell, Jets - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2012 YES
Jordan Babineaux, Titans - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2013 YES
Eric Frampton, Vikings - $1,233,333 - Signed thru 2013 DUNNO
Brodney Pool, Cowboys - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012 YES
Craig Dahl, Rams - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012 DUNNO
Reed Doughty, Redskins - $1,150,000 - Signed thru 2013 YES
Pat Chung, Patriots - $1,115,000 - Signed thru 2012 YES
C.J. Spillman, 49ers - $1,080,000 - Signed thru 2014 DUNNO
T.J. Ward, Browns - $1,058,750 - Signed thru 2013 YES

Answers in caps.

Anyways, my point is that he's probably really worth about 3-4 million a year, so getting 5 per year isn't grossly overpaying. I imagine the Texans would have retained him for 3 years 10.5m, but he didn't want that because he got a better deal. Some of that extra money may have been because it was Detroit, who isn't exactly a great franchise or city.

djohn2oo8
03-13-2013, 05:14 PM
Nick Scurfield‏@NickScurfield
#Texans will be looking for a safety who can play both spots, cover & hit. All 4 starting DBs in 2011-12 had CB experience

silvrhand
03-13-2013, 05:16 PM
Answers in caps.

Anyways, my point is that he's probably really worth about 3-4 million a year, so getting 5 per year isn't grossly overpaying. I imagine the Texans would have retained him for 3 years 10.5m, but he didn't want that because he got a better deal. Some of that extra money may have been because it was Detroit, who isn't exactly a great franchise or city.

3.5 -> 5 million is a large chunk, if everyone made 1 million more that's 52 million in cap space.. 30% is a nice raise.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 05:23 PM
3.5 -> 5 million is a large chunk, if everyone made 1 million more that's 52 million in cap space.. 30% is a nice raise.

Wait for the details to come out, chances are the Lions structured it to give him only 9-12m over 3 years. The team barely has anyone on the books beyond 2014 anyways, they have obviously declared 2013 and 2014 as their years to compete for a championship. Several of the contracts they signed today have been backloaded to avoid caphits in the next two years. I expect to see Stafford or Suh restructure and push more money to 2015 and beyond so they can keep getting more guys. However, if they do that then 2015-17 are going to be pretty bad years for that team.

SCOTTexans
03-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Oh geeze, lots... that's why the safety market is flooded with them right now. Lots of them had expiring deals this year and that means a lot of teams lost their starters (for now). Off the top of my head:

Ravens
Texans
Patriots
Panthers
Bengals
Browns
Redskins
Jags
49ers
Titans
Cowboys
Lions

It's an open market.

You are alway good at Cheering up the Mobs. :pinned:

ASidd_1990
03-13-2013, 05:31 PM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
"U want to go somewhere where uíre wanted, where uíre appreciated for the things youíve done & the things you can do" GQ in Detroit ... Quin said in Detroit some teammates reached out and wanted him back, "but theyíre not the guys that make decisions." ... When Quin was asked in Detroit how hard the #Texans pursued him, he said "I'm not really here to talk about the Texans."

@gloverquin29: Just want to say thank you to the Detroit Lions organization & coaches for giving me an opportunity to continue my career! ... Thank you to the Texans for giving me an a opportunity to start my career in the NFL and have 4 goods years with them!! ... Also want to thank the Texans fans for all their support over my 4 yrs there! It was fun..

False Start
03-13-2013, 05:39 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sOWN3uf5puM/UKqZjxIYA_I/AAAAAAAALR4/KhDDOP5t9G4/s400/damndamndamnfloridaevans-vi.gif

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 05:40 PM
You are alway good at Cheering up the Mobs. :pinned:

That smiley looks like he has a St. Patty's day hat in his hand.

Vance87
03-13-2013, 05:44 PM
http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-gif-table-flip.gif

SCOTTexans
03-13-2013, 05:47 PM
That smiley looks like he has a St. Patty's day hat in his hand.

Yeah just ignore that the arm is coming out of his forehead and i can see it

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 06:09 PM
Oh well..... on to the next one. Its really not that serious people.

Goodwrench3
03-13-2013, 07:12 PM
Our FO is pathetic. Just pathetic

SAMURAITEXAN
03-13-2013, 07:26 PM
Good luck Glover!

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 08:02 PM
3.5 -> 5 million is a large chunk, if everyone made 1 million more that's 52 million in cap space.. 30% is a nice raise.

Agreed

When you realize the Texans aren't going to be a SB winner next yr, is it more important to re-sign Cushing/Watt than it is to keep Quin.

This decision really goes back to if BoB/Rick/Gary really believe Schaub is the guy that's going to bring a Lombardi to Houston.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 08:12 PM
Really you think he's better than some of these guys?

Adrian Wilson, Cardinals - $10,550,000 - Signed thru 2013
Troy Polamalu, Steelers - $8,890,000 - Signed thru 2014
Roman Harper, Saints - $6,250,000 - Signed thru 2012
Tyvon Branch, Raiders - $6,212,000 - Signed thru 2012
Eric Berry, Chiefs - $4,842,800 - Signed thru 2014
Donte Whitner, 49ers - $4,383,333 - Signed thru 2013
Brandon Meriwwather, Bears - $2.950,000 - Signed thru 2013
Kenny Phillips, Giants - $2,586,000 - Signed thru 2012
Bernard Pollard, Ravens - $1,950,000 - Signed thru 2015
George Wilson, Bills - $1,791,666 - Signed thru 2013
Will Allen, Steelers - $1,605,000 - Signed thru 2012
Yeremiah Bell, Jets - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2012
Jordan Babineaux, Titans - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2013
Eric Frampton, Vikings - $1,233,333 - Signed thru 2013
Brodney Pool, Cowboys - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
Craig Dahl, Rams - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
Reed Doughty, Redskins - $1,150,000 - Signed thru 2013
Pat Chung, Patriots - $1,115,000 - Signed thru 2012
C.J. Spillman, 49ers - $1,080,000 - Signed thru 2014
T.J. Ward, Browns - $1,058,750 - Signed thru 2013

I don't think those numbers mean they are better or worse than anyone right now. If you think they are better than Quin, they would have been offered more than $5M/yr.

It all depends on when the contract was signed, & guaranteed money & structure is really more important than a 25 divided by 5 figure.

& I agree with Dutch, I value Quin in the $3-$4M dollar range, with the nature of FA $5M is not "grossly over paying" & I really would have thought he would be expecting offers in the $6M range.

At which point, I would have no problem with the Texans letting him go. But for him to sign for $5M, yeah I'm upset. To hear the Texans never made him an offer, even to match the $5M...... I'm upset.

aussie_texan
03-13-2013, 09:15 PM
@sonofbum: I wish James,Glover,and Kevin good luck-They are all great people that I will miss--

@sonofbum: I really hope we retain Connor --great guy, leader & player-one of my all time favorites to coach

RTP2110
03-13-2013, 10:43 PM
First Casey, now Quin. How are you supposed to build through the draft when you don't keep the guys you draft and build?

Vance87
03-14-2013, 01:18 AM
First Casey, now Quin. How are you supposed to build through the draft when you don't keep the guys you draft and build?

It's the burden of having a salary cap and a good team. You can't keep everybody.

jtexas
03-14-2013, 01:04 PM
Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
Wow, Glover Quin's agent just told me the #Texans never made an official offer for him. They talked conceptually at the combine.

Another example of why John McClain's reporting is pure speculation and not actually insider information. The guy may get the first call after an event, but he is always wrong on "the direction" of the team.

From day 1 he has been adamant that they texans #1 priority has been to resign Quinn.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2013, 03:23 PM
Cheaper than originally stated

Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli
Glover Quin's contract with the Lions was for five years, $23.5M for a $4.7M a year average. He got $5.25 M signing bonus. #Texans

Rey
03-14-2013, 03:26 PM
Texans didn't want gq back.

Really I don't blame them.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2013, 03:28 PM
Texans didn't want gq back.

Really I don't blame them.

I thought they'd a least think enough of him to make an offer. But you're right, they've had plans from the onset of FA to let him walk

Playoffs
03-14-2013, 03:30 PM
Texans didn't want gq back.

Really I don't blame them.

I guess Wade knows best.

Maddict5
03-14-2013, 03:32 PM
Cheaper than originally stated

yeah that seems like a very reasonable contract for a guy in his prime...will be interesting to see what reed gets. i could end up fairly annoyed

jukhan
03-14-2013, 03:57 PM
Just read that his contract is worth a total of $23.5 million over 5 years

Corrosion
03-14-2013, 04:04 PM
I thought they'd a least think enough of him to make an offer. But you're right, they've had plans from the onset of FA to let him walk

They have had a history of not making offers to FA's .... even those they want to keep , letting them make a visit elsewhere to establish their value expecting the agent and player to give them the opportunity to counter the offer.

Looks like in this case that strategy bit them in the ass.

TexanBacker93
03-14-2013, 04:48 PM
They have had a history of not making offers to FA's .... even those they want to keep , letting them make a visit elsewhere to establish their value expecting the agent and player to give them the opportunity to counter the offer.

Looks like in this case that strategy bit them in the ass.

Only if they did want him back.

EllisUnit
03-14-2013, 04:49 PM
Wish Troy Nolan was still on the team and Keo else where.

Who made that damn choice. Keo over Nolan in the first place, really retarded IMO

HOU-TEX
03-14-2013, 04:50 PM
Wish Troy Nolan was still on the team and Keo else where.

Who made that damn choice. Keo over Nolan in the first place, really retarded IMO

Nolan stunk

Doppelganger
03-14-2013, 04:52 PM
Wish Troy Nolan was still on the team and Keo else where.

Who made that damn choice. Keo over Nolan in the first place, really retarded IMO

Everyone's favorite Special Team's coach Joe Marciano. Keo is a better ST player than Nolan.

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 04:59 PM
They have had a history of not making offers to FA's .... even those they want to keep , letting them make a visit elsewhere to establish their value expecting the agent and player to give them the opportunity to counter the offer.

Looks like in this case that strategy bit them in the ass.

This is a very dangerous strategy.

Hopefully Rick doesn't use this strategy when it comes time for the Cushing,Watt negotiations.

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 05:01 PM
Everyone's favorite Special Team's coach Joe Marciano. Keo is a better ST player than Nolan.

Is coach Joe a FA? Can Rick let him get an offer from another team and then let him walk?