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dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 12:32 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

9. Kareem Jackson pick- Not looking too bad after last season.

10. 10-11 picks this year in the draft.

11. Literally, according to my info, Texans have $73,000 of dead money this year. Wow!

Mr teX
03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

Yeah...but what about that Schaub extension doe? :kitten:

GP
03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
:popcorn:

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 12:37 PM
Yeah...but what about that Schaub extension doe? :kitten:

What about it? He was signed to a reasonable deal while Flacco just signed a $120 million deal. We will see if Schaub's struggles after Thanksgiving last year was a slump or an indication of declining skills or limited weapons. That being said, the Texans can get out from under his deal, if needed, without destroying their cap after next year.

Let's remember that the Texans went 12-4 and won a playoff game last year despite cleansing the team of cap issues that included a retooling of the offensive line, loss of a valuable TE. I was as frustrated as anyone with December and January, but, March is not the time to be myopic... Looking at the big picture, the GM is kicking butt!

76Texan
03-11-2013, 01:09 PM
Rick Smith seems to take quite a few pages from Belichik's personnel acquisition strategy, which is a good thing.

In 2009, the Pats traded Mike Vrabel and Matt Cassell to the Chiefs for the #34 pick, which netted them Patrick Chung. The more important thing; however, is that they rid themselves of $18M in cap space to resign Wilfork while avoiding cap hell.

The Texans traded Ryans to move up 12 spots in the third to select Brandon Brooks, and also received a 4th to draft B. Jones.
They took a short-term $2M cap hit but save $9M in future years; money that can be used for other needs.

They resigned Dobbins and acquired James (and later on Rudd) for cheap.
Without the injury to Cushing (and later on Sharpton), that move would have been proven even wiser.

TexanSam
03-11-2013, 01:13 PM
The fact that we got anything for Jason Allen is kind of awesome. Hell, I had to google him because I forgot who he was (I was confusing him with James Allen).

Brisco_County
03-11-2013, 01:18 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

9. Kareem Jackson pick- Not looking too bad after last season.

10. 10-11 picks this year in the draft.

11. Literally, according to my info, Texans have $73,000 of dead money this year. Wow!

To be fair to Winston, he's getting cut due to a change in philosophy under the new HC. He did just fine for the Chiefs last year.

The Mario situation became a best case scenario for us.

Asomugha is playing in a broken system. I'd speculate that he would've done great for the Texans, but Smith made the right decision with J-Joe. An added bonus is J-Joe's assistance with developing Kareem Jackson.

I think we would've been a better team with DeMeco, so it would've been nice if it had worked out. I can't say for certain if keeping him was possible, so maybe someone more familiar with the real cap limitations like Dutch Rudder can speak to that.

Overall, Rick Smith has done a great job managing the cap problem while acquiring enough quality talent (J-Joe, Manning) to keep himself and Kubiak in good standing.

76Texan
03-11-2013, 01:22 PM
The fact that we got anything for Jason Allen is kind of awesome. Hell, I had to google him because I forgot who he was (I was confusing him with James Allen).

LOL, when you googled him up, did you find out if he ever settle with the escort service he used (in Vegas I think).

Honoring Earl 34
03-11-2013, 01:26 PM
Yeah...but what about that Schaub extension doe? :kitten:

I think Schaub is more on Kubiak .

Trap_Star
03-11-2013, 01:31 PM
rick wanted asomugha, but he realized nnamdi was just f'n with him and went to plan b in Joseph. let's not pretend he wanted JJo over nnamdi.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 01:33 PM
I think we would've been a better team with DeMeco, so it would've been nice if it had worked out. I can't say for certain if keeping him was possible, so maybe someone more familiar with the real cap limitations like Dutch Rudder can speak to that.


I still don't like getting rid of Demeco. Cushing missed serious time & Demeco would have been the perfect filler.

Having said that, I don't know how the OL would have turned out, with Caldwell struggling early, then getting injured himself. I'm excited about Ben Jones' future with the Texans.

IDEXAN
03-11-2013, 01:39 PM
5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.




Barwin is gone, and we will be very surprised at the kind of deal he's gonna get.

TexanSam
03-11-2013, 01:42 PM
Barwin is gone, and we will be very surprised at the kind of deal he's gonna get.

Whoever signs him is going to be very disappointed.

Mr teX
03-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Barwin is gone, and we will be very surprised at the kind of deal he's gonna get.

More appropriately, the team will be surprised at the kind of production they're going to wind up getting from him...Think Anthony Weaver, Robaire Smith.

If the dude couldn't come up with more than 5 sacks playing off of JJ Watt this year, there's no hope for him.

b0ng
03-11-2013, 01:47 PM
rick wanted asomugha, but he realized nnamdi was just f'n with him and went to plan b in Joseph. let's not pretend he wanted JJo over nnamdi.

Rick wanted Aso, but he obviously had a limit on what he wanted to spend on one CB. I think he gets credit for making the right decision and getting Manning+Joseph that offseason.

Playoffs
03-11-2013, 02:13 PM
I agree with most, although I think Jason Allen was missed.

Aso, not so sure he's just in wrong position.... but he did force Smith the grab the 'next best" with his time-eating bidding war and Rick was decisive.

Rick has proven to me he's grown into one of the better GMs. (Unless he fubars this upcoming draft. :kitten:)

IDEXAN
03-11-2013, 02:31 PM
Whoever signs him is going to be very disappointed.
You know what, you could very will be right because I don't really have a feel where Barwin's production is going to be in the next couple years no matter who he's playing ball for ? But I'm still of the opinion that he's gonna get a pretty strong deal just based upon those 2011 stats.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 02:41 PM
rick wanted asomugha, but he realized nnamdi was just f'n with him and went to plan b in Joseph. let's not pretend he wanted JJo over nnamdi.

I can say with confidence that you are wrong about that. I was following the team very closely two years ago, and it was clear the Texans were never serious about bidding for Asomugha. Still, it doesn't really matter. The Texans had the money to spend and could have offered Asomugha a deal he would have accepted. They chose not to, choosing instead to allocate the money towards the combination of Joseph and Manning. It was a good decision.

Trap_Star
03-11-2013, 02:53 PM
If JJo was rick's main target, he would of been signed the day FA opened. Instead days went by and everyday a new team was rumored to go in along with the texans in the hunt for nnamdi. One day it was SF, then NYJ, then DAL, then Philly. Rick was all in on Asomugha until he realized it wasn't going to happen and he would lose out on other top CB free agents if he kept waiting.

HOU-TEX
03-11-2013, 02:56 PM
I can say with confidence that you are wrong about that. I was following the team very closely two years ago, and it was clear the Texans were never serious about bidding for Asomugha. Still, it doesn't really matter. The Texans had the money to spend and could have offered Asomugha a deal he would have accepted. They chose not to, choosing instead to allocate the money towards the combination of Joseph and Manning. It was a good decision.

I can say with confidence you have no idea what was going on in the Texans FO at that time. There were many reports at the time saying that we were one of 3-4 teams in the running. We bailed when Aso decided to take his time in making a decision.

deucetx
03-11-2013, 03:17 PM
Yeah it was rather obvious the Texans were interested in Nnamdi. Especially when even Andre Johnson joined in trying to recruit the guy to the team. But still smart of Smith to pull out on that one and get two players for the price instead of one.

Other than that...eh. I'm half and half. Winston and Demeco did not have bad seasons so we shouldn't paint it like they did and give praise for Smith on that based on their play last year. It was good to get the cap room for the re-signings we have on the table and that is where he can receive that credit. At the same time we ended up hurting in those spots so the gamble went 50-50. We got cap room but also got medicore to poor play.

Barwin, Smith did try to resign. It's Barwin who veto'd the contract amount. So that was more about Barwin overestimating his worth after one season. Though could say at least Smith didn't get carried away in his offer.

Brisel...a trained chimpanzee would know not to pay him that amount. Guess this says something about the Raiders, huh? LOL

Jason Allen was about as average as one could be (and I am being charitable)so not resigning wasn't some brain racking decision.

Mario Williams....see the chimpanzee remark (Tells you about the Bills, doesn't it)

So some of this I could give cred to but not all. He's done a decent job because we could definitely have worse and he does an adequate job draft wise.

Dutchrudder
03-11-2013, 03:41 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

9. Kareem Jackson pick- Not looking too bad after last season.

10. 10-11 picks this year in the draft.

11. Literally, according to my info, Texans have $73,000 of dead money this year. Wow!

1. We offered Dunta a "fair" deal before the "Pay Me Rick" fiasco. I believe it was just over 7m a year for 3 years. He clearly was worth more to the Falcons, so that worked out for us. Let's not pretend the Texans didn't want to keep him around, or else we wouldn't have franchised him for so much money and made him an offer.

2. By all accounts the Texans were in the heat of negotiations with Aso's agent, and we had every intention of signing him if the money was right. I think Rick got tired of the back-and-forth with his agent and went with JJo instead. It didn't appear to me that JJo was our primary target at any point in that free agency. It was clearly the right decision to get him, but let's not pretend it was Rick's idea from the start. I think a bit of luck played a role in that.

3. Winston was overpaid here at 5.5m per year. No question about that. He went and signed a similar deal with KC, but with a small amount of guaranteed money. It didn't work out, or maybe the coaching change hurt him, or maybe Albert+Joeckel was the reasoning behind him getting cut, but after the year we had with our o-line, I'm not going to claim victory for Rick in that deal. Winston was floored when he learned he got cut, and was angry that he wasn't asked to renegotiate. It's amazing to me that anyone can claim Rick handled that situation properly, when he did the exact opposite with Walter and got him to agree to a paycut. The least he could have done was see if Winston was willing to go from 4.5m salary to 2. I mean c'mon man! He only had signing bonus guaranteed money left on his deal, so it's not like you avoid paying it regardless of the decision. I thought this was a mistake at the time, and I still think it was. His contract was not guaranteed, and I think he could have been traded for a mid-round pick if they had looked into it.

4. Trading Ryans was a tough call. He's a fan favorite and moving him actually increased his cap hit for 2012 by 1 million+. At the time, I thought it was a good idea if we were going to give up on him because he's not a 3-4 ILB, but in hindsight, he would have been nice to have while Cushing was out. In any case, you can't predict the future, so I think it was correct to move him, as tough as that was. Rick definitely gets some credit for that, and the trade netted us a 4th to get Brandon Brooks.

5. Barwin was a flash in the pan, and nobody signs guys like that to extensions when they are still on a rookie deal. It's a good call not to do it, but I can't think of any other instance where another team has extended a guy after one good season in the middle of a rookie deal. I'd give him some credit if I could think of any instance where this had happened before...

6. I don't think we had any intention of re-signing Brisiel. He never made much money and wanted more, so he was going to the highest bidder. We didn't have the money to re-sign him, so I guess that's good on Rick?

7. Jason Allen got 2 years 4.2 million, and this was well after free agency started. I honestly don't know why the Bengals gave him that much, but he wasn't going to be re-signed anyways. Good job Rick on not giving Jason Allen 4 million a year? I think my cat could have figured that one out...

8. No money to re-sign Mario, and no way he was gonna take a paycut. We spent his money on Foster and Myers instead. Whether that was the right call is debatable, but I'm good with it. Good job Rick!

9. Kjax got a real coach when they got Phillips and Vance Joseph. There's no question that was the catalyst that made Kjax go from zero to hero. I think I have to say mostly "good job McNair!" on this one. Without Phillips, Kjax wouldn't be nearly the #2 CB he is now. I also kind of wonder how much JJo has to do with it, from a developmental perspective.

10. Good for Rick not giving away our draft picks?

11. Dead money is all over the place on the net, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I wouldn't be surprised if Winston was designated a June 1st cut and had 1m in dead money moved to 2013. Either Lienart or Jones may also have been June 1st cuts too.


I think you are leaving out some important things on Rick Smith's record. Without getting into draft picks which can cut both ways, here's a few I think are notable.

The Good:

1. Owen Daniels. OD has been good for us his whole career. He was drafted in 2006 and has remained with us since. Rick tendered him once he became an RFA in the uncapped year, and that was a good move. He then signed him to a decent deal, but not too pricey for us. I think OD is actually a good contract to this day and has been ever since he was drafted. We never overpaid for him, even when he was asking for top 5 TE money. Good job on Rick.

2. Duane Brown. This guy has been a beast for us the last few years. I don't know what clicked in his head since about 2010, but he has really found his groove and is a top 10 LT for sure. His new deal is well designed, in that he signed it this past year and the team was able to include 2012 his signing bonus proration into 2012's cap. So that puts 2.5 million of his 12.5m signing bonus in 2012. The way the contract is designed, he will be under contract in 2017 and 18 for 9+ million, but will have no guaranteed money. Essentially, we have him locked in for the next 4 years for for 32.5 million, which is 8.125 average. That is an excellent contract.

3. Donnie Jones. Great fill-in punter after Hartman got hit with a suspension. Can't ask for more from a minimum guy.


The Bad:
1. Matt Schaub. This is debatable, but signing him to a long term deal in week 1 was a mistake. I think the numbers were fine for who he is, and what we expected of him, but the guy just came off a bad injury, and they signed him too early. His contract will likely be 3 years long, making it worth 40.15m for an average of 13.383m. That's too much if he continues to play like he did, which seems to be likely after talking with the Doc about it. He apparently can't plant on his foot due to the injury, and if that's the case, then he's going to continue to throw wobbly and inaccurate passes. Rick jumped the gun on this one, and should have waited until the playoffs at the very least. This will likely be the biggest mistake of his career.

2. Chris Myers. He's getting old, and isn't getting much better. We have had a hole at backup center for a long time that finally got addressed last draft when we got Ben Jones. That's good, but the situation kind of forced the team's hand to pay Myers top 5 center money. That's bad, and should have been addressed before. Caldwell was supposed to be that guy, but he has been injured more than Mario Williams since he got here. He's not reliable, and we should have addressed C before the last draft.

3. Andre Johnson's contract. He is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and all because Rick didn't put some of it upfront in the uncapped year. He's clearly a core player, a Texan for life, and yet there wasn't enough certainty to give him a 5-10m roster bonus that year? C'mon man!

4. 2010 - The Uncapped Year. The Texans did not take advantage of this year as they should have. They re-signed guys to huge contracts in AJ and Ryans, but didn't bother putting a large roster bonus or 2010 salary in the deal to curb their salary cap hits down the road. This was a huge mistake, and it put our team behind the rest of the league. Other teams were able to spend up to 140 million in cap space that year, and they got away with it. The Skins and Boys were forced to push some of that excessive money to their future caps to get them in line with the other teams spending. The Texans kept on spending like there was a cap, and missed out on paying AJ and Demeco upfront roster bonuses. Now we have a 2013 caphit of 14.6m for AJ, and we spent over 9m on Demeco last year when he was cut.

5. Jacoby Jones+Lawrence Vickers over Vonta Leach. With the money we spent on JJ and Vickers, we could have kept Leach instead. Vonta got a deal worth 3.66m a year, JJ got one from us worth 3.5 a year. I'd take the starting all-pro FB over the #3 WR any day. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but losing Leach was bad for us. We even went on to spend some money on Vickers, who wasn't that great. Bad move all around, Leach should have been designated a core player.


Anyways, that's most of what I can think of for now (Joe Marciano, team doctors and S&T coaches should be on the bad list too). Rick's record is simply not as good as you make it out to be.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 03:55 PM
Rick wanted Aso, but he obviously had a limit on what he wanted to spend on one CB. I think he gets credit for making the right decision and getting Manning+Joseph that offseason.

Where he should get credit, was knowing when to cut the line & go after another fish.

b0ng
03-11-2013, 04:33 PM
Where he should get credit, was knowing when to cut the line & go after another fish.

Either way it was still a decision in which the end result worked out the best for the Texans. I'm perfectly fine with how Smith has run this team for his time here and it's been a long time since any football executive has made me say that.

Trap_Star
03-11-2013, 04:57 PM
Where he should get credit, was knowing when to cut the line & go after another fish.

This. Rick pulled out of the nnamdi gangbang before Andy Reid soiled him and the rest of the GMs with his money shot.









skeet skeet skeet. :swatter:

ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 04:57 PM
Thread should be titled "Rick Smith looks dumber every day"

SMH

I wish Daryl Morey was running the Texans. We could already have won the SuperBowl by now.

Haha.

Mr teX
03-11-2013, 05:23 PM
Thread should be titled "Rick Smith looks dumber every day"

SMH

I wish Daryl Morey was running the Texans. We could already have won the SuperBowl by now.

Haha.

Hows that working out for Morey in the NBA again? People give this guy entirely too much credit for having done not much of anything but penny-pinch us all the way to the lotto for 78907 seasons...Wake me up when his moves actually lead to us winning a playoff series.

ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 05:32 PM
Hows that working out for Morey in the NBA again? People give this guy entirely too much credit for having done not much of anything but penny-pinch us all the way to the lotto for 78907 seasons...Wake me up when his moves actually lead to us winning a playoff series.

Hahaha he made a blockbuster deal for James Harden and the Rockets are serious playoff contenders all while being the youngest and least experienced team in the league.

Oh and they will have cap space to go after max FA too.

ArlingtonTexan
03-11-2013, 05:41 PM
Hahaha he made a blockbuster deal for James Harden and the Rockets are serious playoff contenders all while being the youngest and least experienced team in the league.

Oh and they will have cap space to go after max FA too.

And the texans are coming off a 12-4 season and back to back dvision titles and playoff wins each year. I know people are excited about the rockets, but the Texans have been and are closer to their league title than the Rockets. Being disappointing in the texans finish is not the same as having proper perspective of where the teams are.

ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 05:43 PM
And the texans are coming off a 12-4 season and back to back dvision titles and playoff wins each year. I know people are excited about the rockets, but the Texans have been and are closer to their league title than the Rockets. Being disappointing in the texans finish is not the same as having proper perspective of where the teams are.

I think both Texans and Rockets will be in the championship picture by next season.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 05:44 PM
Thread should be titled "Rick Smith looks dumber every day"

SMH

I wish Daryl Morey was running the Texans. We could already have won the SuperBowl by now.

Haha.

Ahh, an NBA fan... once small step from pro wrestling. I have no idea what your point is... Smith's team has won a playoff game each of the past two seasons and are poised to continue their run of success. I respect the fact that some fans won't have as highly an opinion of Smith as I do and may disagree with some of my arguments.

You, however, offer nothing thoughtful or insightful. To your credit, it's not as if you tried.

badboy
03-11-2013, 05:48 PM
It will be interesting to see what comps we get for our guys we lose to free agency.

badboy
03-11-2013, 05:52 PM
Ahh, an NBA fan... once small step from pro wrestling. I have no idea what your point is... Smith's team has won a playoff game each of the past two seasons and are poised to continue their run of success. I respect the fact that some fans won't have as highly an opinion of Smith as I do and may disagree with some of my arguments.

You, however, offer nothing thoughtful or insightful. To your credit, it's not as if you tried.Also he only posts a few times a year since 2010. I am willing to let him say pretty much anything.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 07:12 PM
Oh and they will have cap space to go after max FA too.

Then we'll see how good he is. I have my doubts that he'll be able to bring in a true max player.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 07:15 PM
Ahh, an NBA fan... once small step from pro wrestling.

oooh.... that's low, below the belt & uncalled for.




Pro Wrestling is highly entertaining.

TexanBacker93
03-11-2013, 07:43 PM
Yeah...but what about that Schaub extension doe? :kitten:

I'm a firm believer that Schaub held all the cards back then. If we don't extend him he might have been telling the Texans he'd walk at the end of the year. In retrospect it would have worked to our benefit if he could have been brought back cheaper, but he could just have easily played the final month like he did the first 12 weeks and we could be looking at TJ Yates as our starter. I'm not a Schaub fan and I think we need to upgrade at some point. However, there are no QBs available right now that we could insert into the offense and still be a contender.

TexanBacker93
03-11-2013, 07:53 PM
1. We offered Dunta a "fair" deal before the "Pay Me Rick" fiasco. I believe it was just over 7m a year for 3 years. He clearly was worth more to the Falcons, so that worked out for us. Let's not pretend the Texans didn't want to keep him around, or else we wouldn't have franchised him for so much money and made him an offer.

2. By all accounts the Texans were in the heat of negotiations with Aso's agent, and we had every intention of signing him if the money was right. I think Rick got tired of the back-and-forth with his agent and went with JJo instead. It didn't appear to me that JJo was our primary target at any point in that free agency. It was clearly the right decision to get him, but let's not pretend it was Rick's idea from the start. I think a bit of luck played a role in that.

3. Winston was overpaid here at 5.5m per year. No question about that. He went and signed a similar deal with KC, but with a small amount of guaranteed money. It didn't work out, or maybe the coaching change hurt him, or maybe Albert+Joeckel was the reasoning behind him getting cut, but after the year we had with our o-line, I'm not going to claim victory for Rick in that deal. Winston was floored when he learned he got cut, and was angry that he wasn't asked to renegotiate. It's amazing to me that anyone can claim Rick handled that situation properly, when he did the exact opposite with Walter and got him to agree to a paycut. The least he could have done was see if Winston was willing to go from 4.5m salary to 2. I mean c'mon man! He only had signing bonus guaranteed money left on his deal, so it's not like you avoid paying it regardless of the decision. I thought this was a mistake at the time, and I still think it was. His contract was not guaranteed, and I think he could have been traded for a mid-round pick if they had looked into it.

4. Trading Ryans was a tough call. He's a fan favorite and moving him actually increased his cap hit for 2012 by 1 million+. At the time, I thought it was a good idea if we were going to give up on him because he's not a 3-4 ILB, but in hindsight, he would have been nice to have while Cushing was out. In any case, you can't predict the future, so I think it was correct to move him, as tough as that was. Rick definitely gets some credit for that, and the trade netted us a 4th to get Brandon Brooks.

5. Barwin was a flash in the pan, and nobody signs guys like that to extensions when they are still on a rookie deal. It's a good call not to do it, but I can't think of any other instance where another team has extended a guy after one good season in the middle of a rookie deal. I'd give him some credit if I could think of any instance where this had happened before...

6. I don't think we had any intention of re-signing Brisiel. He never made much money and wanted more, so he was going to the highest bidder. We didn't have the money to re-sign him, so I guess that's good on Rick?

7. Jason Allen got 2 years 4.2 million, and this was well after free agency started. I honestly don't know why the Bengals gave him that much, but he wasn't going to be re-signed anyways. Good job Rick on not giving Jason Allen 4 million a year? I think my cat could have figured that one out...

8. No money to re-sign Mario, and no way he was gonna take a paycut. We spent his money on Foster and Myers instead. Whether that was the right call is debatable, but I'm good with it. Good job Rick!

9. Kjax got a real coach when they got Phillips and Vance Joseph. There's no question that was the catalyst that made Kjax go from zero to hero. I think I have to say mostly "good job McNair!" on this one. Without Phillips, Kjax wouldn't be nearly the #2 CB he is now. I also kind of wonder how much JJo has to do with it, from a developmental perspective.

10. Good for Rick not giving away our draft picks?

11. Dead money is all over the place on the net, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I wouldn't be surprised if Winston was designated a June 1st cut and had 1m in dead money moved to 2013. Either Lienart or Jones may also have been June 1st cuts too.


I think you are leaving out some important things on Rick Smith's record. Without getting into draft picks which can cut both ways, here's a few I think are notable.

The Good:

1. Owen Daniels. OD has been good for us his whole career. He was drafted in 2006 and has remained with us since. Rick tendered him once he became an RFA in the uncapped year, and that was a good move. He then signed him to a decent deal, but not too pricey for us. I think OD is actually a good contract to this day and has been ever since he was drafted. We never overpaid for him, even when he was asking for top 5 TE money. Good job on Rick.

2. Duane Brown. This guy has been a beast for us the last few years. I don't know what clicked in his head since about 2010, but he has really found his groove and is a top 10 LT for sure. His new deal is well designed, in that he signed it this past year and the team was able to include 2012 his signing bonus proration into 2012's cap. So that puts 2.5 million of his 12.5m signing bonus in 2012. The way the contract is designed, he will be under contract in 2017 and 18 for 9+ million, but will have no guaranteed money. Essentially, we have him locked in for the next 4 years for for 32.5 million, which is 8.125 average. That is an excellent contract.

3. Donnie Jones. Great fill-in punter after Hartman got hit with a suspension. Can't ask for more from a minimum guy.


The Bad:
1. Matt Schaub. This is debatable, but signing him to a long term deal in week 1 was a mistake. I think the numbers were fine for who he is, and what we expected of him, but the guy just came off a bad injury, and they signed him too early. His contract will likely be 3 years long, making it worth 40.15m for an average of 13.383m. That's too much if he continues to play like he did, which seems to be likely after talking with the Doc about it. He apparently can't plant on his foot due to the injury, and if that's the case, then he's going to continue to throw wobbly and inaccurate passes. Rick jumped the gun on this one, and should have waited until the playoffs at the very least. This will likely be the biggest mistake of his career.

2. Chris Myers. He's getting old, and isn't getting much better. We have had a hole at backup center for a long time that finally got addressed last draft when we got Ben Jones. That's good, but the situation kind of forced the team's hand to pay Myers top 5 center money. That's bad, and should have been addressed before. Caldwell was supposed to be that guy, but he has been injured more than Mario Williams since he got here. He's not reliable, and we should have addressed C before the last draft.

3. Andre Johnson's contract. He is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money, and all because Rick didn't put some of it upfront in the uncapped year. He's clearly a core player, a Texan for life, and yet there wasn't enough certainty to give him a 5-10m roster bonus that year? C'mon man!

4. 2010 - The Uncapped Year. The Texans did not take advantage of this year as they should have. They re-signed guys to huge contracts in AJ and Ryans, but didn't bother putting a large roster bonus or 2010 salary in the deal to curb their salary cap hits down the road. This was a huge mistake, and it put our team behind the rest of the league. Other teams were able to spend up to 140 million in cap space that year, and they got away with it. The Skins and Boys were forced to push some of that excessive money to their future caps to get them in line with the other teams spending. The Texans kept on spending like there was a cap, and missed out on paying AJ and Demeco upfront roster bonuses. Now we have a 2013 caphit of 14.6m for AJ, and we spent over 9m on Demeco last year when he was cut.

5. Jacoby Jones+Lawrence Vickers over Vonta Leach. With the money we spent on JJ and Vickers, we could have kept Leach instead. Vonta got a deal worth 3.66m a year, JJ got one from us worth 3.5 a year. I'd take the starting all-pro FB over the #3 WR any day. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but losing Leach was bad for us. We even went on to spend some money on Vickers, who wasn't that great. Bad move all around, Leach should have been designated a core player.


Anyways, that's most of what I can think of for now (Joe Marciano, team doctors and S&T coaches should be on the bad list too). Rick's record is simply not as good as you make it out to be.

1. We wanted to keep Dunta, but we weren't willing to overpay him. Rick could have gone the Falcons route, but didn't and let him walk.

3. We don't know if the Texans approached Winston to take a pay cut. They may have and I'm sure he would have said no. It's the last year of his contract so he's going to get the money. I agree that maybe a trade could have been found, but if teams know you need to move someone they might not be as quick to answer that call.

Under the bad calls:

3&4. Wasn't this what the Redskins and Cowboys were punished for? I'm pretty certain teams were told they couldn't front load contracts for the uncapped year without penalty.

Maddict5
03-11-2013, 10:04 PM
4. 2010 - The Uncapped Year. The Texans did not take advantage of this year as they should have. They re-signed guys to huge contracts in AJ and Ryans, but didn't bother putting a large roster bonus or 2010 salary in the deal to curb their salary cap hits down the road. This was a huge mistake, and it put our team behind the rest of the league. Other teams were able to spend up to 140 million in cap space that year, and they got away with it. The Skins and Boys were forced to push some of that excessive money to their future caps to get them in line with the other teams spending. The Texans kept on spending like there was a cap, and missed out on paying AJ and Demeco upfront roster bonuses. Now we have a 2013 caphit of 14.6m for AJ, and we spent over 9m on Demeco last year when he was cut.



ask the redskins and cowboys how that strategy worked out for them :rolleyes:

Uncle Rico
03-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Getting outbid for players isnt necessarily being shrewd. handing out deals before the contract is fulfilled is stupid. Most good GM's want to be sure of what they are about to mortgage the farm for. Doesnt use the franchise tag to his advantage tokeep quality players on the team, even when the team isnt in danger of going over the cap to keep guys around an extra year to see if they continue the upward trend and truly deserve the long deal. Overpaying his guys because he thinks 'they deserve it' is dumb.

I like the truly shrewd GM's. like the guy from baltimore,denver,san francisco,seattle. Our GM is just like the majority of the brass, good enough.

Lucky
03-11-2013, 10:13 PM
3. We don't know if the Texans approached Winston to take a pay cut. They may have and I'm sure he would have said no.
At the time, I think I heard Winston say in an interview that he was not approached by the Texans for a pay cut. That his agent quickly found a similar deal, indicates that Winston probably wouldn't have agreed to a cut in salary.

Lucky
03-11-2013, 10:19 PM
I'm a firm believer that Schaub held all the cards back then.
Schaub was coming off a major injury. He held no cards. If the Texans could have afforded a $60+ million deal in 2012, they certainly could have done one this offseason. Joe Flacco always had the tools and the upside. He finally played up to them in the most opportune time. Schaub was never going to become what Flacco became. He's a pretty smart system QB with zero athleticism. The market would have been the Texans and...maybe the Jets. Maybe. Schaub might have gotten a $25 million, 3 year deal. Not the $60+ million he got from the Texans.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 10:53 PM
Getting outbid for players isnt necessarily being shrewd. handing out deals before the contract is fulfilled is stupid. Most good GM's want to be sure of what they are about to mortgage the farm for. Doesnt use the franchise tag to his advantage tokeep quality players on the team, even when the team isnt in danger of going over the cap to keep guys around an extra year to see if they continue the upward trend and truly deserve the long deal. Overpaying his guys because he thinks 'they deserve it' is dumb.

I like the truly shrewd GM's. like the guy from baltimore,denver,san francisco,seattle. Our GM is just like the majority of the brass, good enough.


Who is being overpaid.

Not overpaying? You mean giving $120 million for Flacco... Baltimore is about to fall apart. Good thing Flacco was so good that he made the Denver safety fall asleep on his basic responsibillities in a prevent defense... Baltimore won't have another shot at a Superbowl for a long time!

Because of the Flacco deal, the Ravens dumped Anquan Boldin for almost nothing to get below the cap and that is in addition to the retirement of Ray Lewis, Ed Reed free agency, along with the following free agents:

Paul Kruger
Ellerbe
Chris Johnson
Considine
Kemoeatu
Cary Williams

Bryant Mckinnie
Bobbie Willilams

and many other contributors. With all those players off the book, the Ravens have $5 million more room in the cap than the Texans...

By the way, in 2014 the following players are scheduled to consume $70 million of the Ravens cap:

Flacco, Rice, yanda, Suggs, Ngata, Rice, L.Webb.

Seattle and San Fran are in great shape right now because of their youth and the fact that they hit on young QBs in the mid rounds. as long as they are working off their rookie deals, they will have a $10 - $15 million advantage over teams with veteran Qbs.

by the way, the Seattle GM gave Lynch a deal almost identical to Foster. Also, he sign Sidney Rice to a 5yr $41 million contract and Zach Miller to a 5yr $34 million contract (yikes!), and he also spent significant money bidding for Matt Flynn one year ago.

I'm not seeing the distinction you are making. I think all these organizations are doing a good job.... but I certainly don't see how Smith is less shrewd. Explain with evidence, please.

Texecutioner
03-11-2013, 11:33 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

9. Kareem Jackson pick- Not looking too bad after last season.

10. 10-11 picks this year in the draft.

11. Literally, according to my info, Texans have $73,000 of dead money this year. Wow!

When Rick Smith learns how to make trades where he can dump poor assets and acquire strong players consistently instead of having this "follow behind poppa Kubiak" with his "build through the draft only" approach then I'll refer to him as "shrewd." Until then, he'll continue to be a guy that is average at best that looks good because of Kubiak and Wade's cherry picked guys in the draft. Rick Smith doesn't seem to know how to make strong trades at all and I hate that about him. He has only had one off season where he went after some help in free agency and it worked out very well, but we haven't seemed to have figured out how to free up cap money since.

Lol at the idea of Rick Smith being shrewd.

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 11:40 PM
LOL

How long has Rick been here?

How many playoff wins? Super Bowls?

Tell me more about the Texans annual cap situation?

What is Rick Smith's actual role with the Texans? Somehow he's managed to keep his job despite being avg at best. That's kinda schrewed I guess.

Texecutioner
03-11-2013, 11:48 PM
LOL

How long has Rick been here?

How many playoff wins? Super Bowls?

Tell me more about the Texans annual cap situation?

I don't think he has to win a SB to prove that he is a good GM. As long as he can consistently whip out strong teams from year to year and build a really strong one back if we have a lousy season, then that's the sign of a good GM to me. When I see Rick Smith standing pat every off season with this mythical dream that some rookies out of the draft are going to cover up the gaping holes we have on this team from year to year, then that shows me that the guy doesn't learn from his past mistakes, nor from other mistakes in history with other franchises. I certainly don't expect to see him making the Texans a major player in free agency or trades in every off season, but since he has been here it has only taken place in one off season out of what 6 or 7 now?? That's a horrible ratio and I don't see him managing the cap situation that well. Not that the Texans cap is easy with a lot of the successful 1st round picks and all, but I find it incredibly challenging for anyone to make a case that Rick Smith is some rennaisance man as a GM in this league.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 11:48 PM
When Rick Smith learns how to make trades where he can dump poor assets and acquire strong players consistently instead of having this "follow behind poppa Kubiak" with his "build through the draft only" approach then I'll refer to him as "shrewd." Until then, he'll continue to be a guy that is average at best that looks good because of Kubiak and Wade's cherry picked guys in the draft. Rick Smith doesn't seem to know how to make strong trades at all and I hate that about him. He has only had one off season where he went after some help in free agency and it worked out very well, but we haven't seemed to have figured out how to free up cap money since.

Lol at the idea of Rick Smith being shrewd.

Umm, we got a 3rd and a 4th for Demeco Ryans last year. Not bad for an aging, MLB, one year removed from a torn achilles tendon who was a liability in pass coverage when he was young and healthy.

How about the trade down in 2008 to drop back and grab Duane Brown one pick before the Chargers grabbed him. How does that move look now?

How about last off-season when he got us cap healthy without sacrificing the season and landed us (likely) 4 compensatory draft picks for this year, including a 3rd rounder?

How about outbidding the Bears a few years ago for an UDFA, offering a rare two year contract to lure him out of Chicago: Arian Foster?


He has let Dunta walk, and he let Mario walk away despite a lot of noise suggesting it was very foolish to do so... The Texans did have a choice, by the way. They could have restructured contracts and chosen not to pay some of Foster, Brown, Myers, Schaub... electing to "win now" with Mario and worry about the future when they had to. Good thing Rick and company avoided that nonsense!

Norg
03-12-2013, 12:36 AM
what about the Ahman green signing LOL whos idea was that ..?????

Or Alex brink .. i know a 7th rounder but dammm that had to be a Kubes pick

b0ng
03-12-2013, 03:07 AM
what about the Ahman green signing LOL whos idea was that ..?????

I would venture a guess that Mike Sherman had something to do with it

Or Alex brink .. i know a 7th rounder but dammm that had to be a Kubes pick

gotta dig deep in order to find the mythical 7th round bust

b0ng
03-12-2013, 03:07 AM
LOL

How long has Rick been here?

How many playoff wins? Super Bowls?

Tell me more about the Texans annual cap situation?

What is Rick Smith's actual role with the Texans? Somehow he's managed to keep his job despite being avg at best. That's kinda schrewed I guess.

If an executive/coach is not a success in his first 5 years he will never be a success period.

--steelbtexan

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 07:27 AM
He has only had one off season where he went after some help in free agency and it worked out very well, but we haven't seemed to have figured out how to free up cap money since.

Lol at the idea of Rick Smith being shrewd.

Not that I disagree with you about Rick Smith's prowess, but Wade Smith was a good signing, he was excellent his first year, similar to Jjo's first year.

Then Antonio was a mixed bag. I don't think he was the guy we paid him to be, a threatening pass rusher opposite Mario, but recently with Wade, he's been playing lights out.

He got Matt Schaub through trade & he's been as productive as any QB in the league since 2008 (when he's healthy), not exactly free agency, but a decent trade for a starting QB.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 08:48 AM
what about the Ahman green signing LOL whos idea was that ..?????

Or Alex brink .. i know a 7th rounder but dammm that had to be a Kubes pick



Yes, occasionally Rick Smith used to make mistakes. There is no better evidence of how good he has been than people in disagreement using A.Green and Brink as possible examples. Green was an awful move 5 years ago. And, Brink was not one of his better 7th round picks.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 08:52 AM
Not that I disagree with you about Rick Smith's prowess, but Wade Smith was a good signing, he was excellent his first year, similar to Jjo's first year.

Then Antonio was a mixed bag. I don't think he was the guy we paid him to be, a threatening pass rusher opposite Mario, but recently with Wade, he's been playing lights out.

He got Matt Schaub through trade & he's been as productive as any QB in the league since 2008 (when he's healthy), not exactly free agency, but a decent trade for a starting QB.

Antonio was an excellent free agent signing. The Texans got value for him. As with most deals, his contract was back-loaded. For the first three years, he only counted $3-$5 million against the cap. The fact that the Texans aren't going to cut him on the last year of his deal despite the $9 million cap charge is a great indication of how valuable he has been.

Playoffs
03-12-2013, 08:58 AM
Yeah, we should fire Smith. He's an awful 7th Round drafter. Throwaway picks.

Except for David Anderson. And Zac Diles. And Troy Nolan. And Dorin Dickerson. And Derek Newton. If we'd have had a 7th rounder in 2012 he would have blown it. Fire his azz.

HTown2ATX
03-12-2013, 09:19 AM
Yeah, I like how Rick Smith tried to get us Boldin for a throw away pick, wish that would have worked out. :kitten:

Not saying he is a bad GM by any means, but, wake me up when training camp starts, Texans off season "moves" are as boring as golf usually.

As long as the Texans keep making the second round of the playoffs (despite whether or not they obviously blow balls down the stretch and fans pretend everything is A-ok) expectations will have been met, Queue up the next season after that, rinse, repeat. :jogger:

TEXANS84
03-12-2013, 09:34 AM
Yeah, we should fire Smith. He's an awful 7th Round drafter. Throwaway picks.

Except for David Anderson. And Zac Diles. And Troy Nolan. And Dorin Dickerson. And Derek Newton. If we'd have had a 7th rounder in 2012 he would have blown it. Fire his azz.

Arian Foster, undrafted.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 09:36 AM
Yeah, we should fire Smith. He's an awful 7th Round drafter. Throwaway picks.

Except for David Anderson. And Zac Diles. And Troy Nolan. And Dorin Dickerson. And Derek Newton. If we'd have had a 7th rounder in 2012 he would have blown it. Fire his azz.

I brought up a few articles recently that show the percentage of draft picks in each round that became starter, contributor, place-holder, or nothing.

A 7th rounder usually is a "nothing" or a place-holder.
His chance of being a contributor is very low; of becoming a starter is very rare.

6th and 7th rounders have a little better of a chance to amount to something, but not much better.

You need 5 or 6 of those guys to find a starter; the Texans surpassed those figures rather handsomely.

They have been doing a good job on this part.
You have to give them that credit.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 09:41 AM
Arian Foster, undrafted.

Braman and Jamison have been doing quite well also.

Heath Shuler
03-12-2013, 09:50 AM
I like Smith overall but damn; Amobi Okoye???????:gun:

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 10:31 AM
I don't think he has to win a SB to prove that he is a good GM. As long as he can consistently whip out strong teams from year to year and build a really strong one back if we have a lousy season, then that's the sign of a good GM to me. When I see Rick Smith standing pat every off season with this mythical dream that some rookies out of the draft are going to cover up the gaping holes we have on this team from year to year, then that shows me that the guy doesn't learn from his past mistakes, nor from other mistakes in history with other franchises. I certainly don't expect to see him making the Texans a major player in free agency or trades in every off season, but since he has been here it has only taken place in one off season out of what 6 or 7 now?? That's a horrible ratio and I don't see him managing the cap situation that well. Not that the Texans cap is easy with a lot of the successful 1st round picks and all, but I find it incredibly challenging for anyone to make a case that Rick Smith is some rennaisance man as a GM in this league.

I think it's been shown year in and year out that teams that rely upon free agency to build their teams don't win. How much money did Philly shell out for their "Dream Team"? They should be cutting Nnamdi today and they're no closer to competing for a playoff spot than Cleveland ever is.

I think the fact that Smith has built a playoff team without having to buy players every year shows that he's doing a good job. Yeah, we're only 2-2 in the playoffs, but considering this was still an expansion team as far as talent goes when he took it over we're in good shape. We have a strong foundation and good players at many key positions. Do we have holes? Yep. Every team has some. You can't have All-Pro caliber players at every position with a hard cap. As long as we get into the playoffs each year we have a chance at winning the Super Bowl. No team is a lock and no team is a guaranteed one and done once the playoffs begin. I think most people felt Baltimore would lose to Denver if not to Indy, but look what happened.

Build through the draft.

Dutchrudder
03-12-2013, 10:38 AM
1. We wanted to keep Dunta, but we weren't willing to overpay him. Rick could have gone the Falcons route, but didn't and let him walk.

3. We don't know if the Texans approached Winston to take a pay cut. They may have and I'm sure he would have said no. It's the last year of his contract so he's going to get the money. I agree that maybe a trade could have been found, but if teams know you need to move someone they might not be as quick to answer that call.


Paying Dunta 7+ million a year is overpaying him, and that's what we offered before franchising him for 10 million. We were stuck paying top dollar to a guy who never made a probowl because we had no depth at the position. 7 million a year in 2010 was too much, but we lucked out that he didn't take that deal and instead of paying him about 23 million, we only paid 10 for a one year rental. If you want to give kudos to Rick for that, then I don't know what to tell you. The situation was bad regardless of what we did.

On Winston:

“Unfortunately I have bad news,” Winston wrote. “The Texans have decided to release me today. Although it is a surprise, I have nothing but positive memories and great relationships that I have built over the years. While my future seems uncertain, I am confident I will land on my feet. Let me say thank you to Mr. McNair and the whole Texan organization. They have had big role in the player and person I have become. And last but not least to my fans and teammates. You guys are the absolute best! I will miss all of you more than you know.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/texans-cut-eric-winston/

I believe it was on Twitter that he was angry about not getting asked to at least renegotiate. He did have two years left on his deal, so there was room to maneuver. Signing a deal worth more money (5.5m a year with the Chiefs, vs 4.5m salary on the Texans) goes to show the Texans missed an opportunity to trade him. Why wouldn't the Chiefs or someone else trade a 6th or swap picks a round apart for Winston to take on his non-guaranteed deal? If he doesn't work out, cut him and he costs less than what they paid for him this year. If Winston Justice can be traded for a swap of 6th round picks and a salary of 3.25m, then Winston ought to be worth at least a 6th outright...

HOU-TEX
03-12-2013, 10:43 AM
Umm, we got a 3rd and a 4th for Demeco Ryans last year. Not bad for an aging, MLB, one year removed from a torn achilles tendon who was a liability in pass coverage when he was young and healthy.

How about the trade down in 2008 to drop back and grab Duane Brown one pick before the Chargers grabbed him. How does that move look now?

How about last off-season when he got us cap healthy without sacrificing the season and landed us (likely) 4 compensatory draft picks for this year, including a 3rd rounder?

How about outbidding the Bears a few years ago for an UDFA, offering a rare two year contract to lure him out of Chicago: Arian Foster?


He has let Dunta walk, and he let Mario walk away despite a lot of noise suggesting it was very foolish to do so... The Texans did have a choice, by the way. They could have restructured contracts and chosen not to pay some of Foster, Brown, Myers, Schaub... electing to "win now" with Mario and worry about the future when they had to. Good thing Rick and company avoided that nonsense!

We got a 4th and swapped 3rds

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 11:01 AM
We got a 4th and swapped 3rds

That's right... up about 10-15 spots in 3rd. Sorry about that.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 11:06 AM
Paying Dunta 7+ million a year is overpaying him, and that's what we offered before franchising him for 10 million. We were stuck paying top dollar to a guy who never made a probowl because we had no depth at the position. 7 million a year in 2010 was too much, but we lucked out that he didn't take that deal and instead of paying him about 23 million, we only paid 10 for a one year rental. If you want to give kudos to Rick for that, then I don't know what to tell you. The situation was bad regardless of what we did.

On Winston:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/texans-cut-eric-winston/

I believe it was on Twitter that he was angry about not getting asked to at least renegotiate. He did have two years left on his deal, so there was room to maneuver. Signing a deal worth more money (5.5m a year with the Chiefs, vs 4.5m salary on the Texans) goes to show the Texans missed an opportunity to trade him. Why wouldn't the Chiefs or someone else trade a 6th or swap picks a round apart for Winston to take on his non-guaranteed deal? If he doesn't work out, cut him and he costs less than what they paid for him this year. If Winston Justice can be traded for a swap of 6th round picks and a salary of 3.25m, then Winston ought to be worth at least a 6th outright...

I forgot how much we had offered Dunta. I agree that $7 million is also too much, but we didn't give him Falcons money. At that point, though, we were still in a position where we had to offer players more than they might have been worth.

I remember Winston on the radio, but I still don't think he would have renegotiated. His agent wasn't going to accept that when he knew he'd get as good or better money out there. As for the trading of him, I'm not part of anyone's inner circle so I don't know if they did shop him. Most teams are pretty tight lipped about that. Was Justice traded because the team needed to clear cap space or was he traded because they wanted to move him? GMs know each other's cap space. If the 49ers were in a bad situation and were going to have to cut Smith they weren't going to get a 2nd round pick for him. I realize they didn't want to pay the roster bonus, but that's different.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 11:30 AM
I like Smith overall but damn; Amobi Okoye???????:gun:

I don't think any of us like what we got out of Okoye, but he wasn't what I would consider a bust. He just underperformed his draft status.

As a pretty high first rounder, we expected an impact player and he was never one of those, just an average or below average 43 Under-Tackle.
He never fulfilled his "potential", and so we hope Rick Smith and Kubiak learn the lesson not to draft a player too high based on his "potential".

Now if Mercilus turns out to be another ho-hum player; that would be OK, because he was drafted late in the first round. He has yet play up to his draft status, but he hasn't got as much opportunity as Brooks Reed did as a rookie.

I'd like to see him take the next step; otherwise, it will be a negative mark for the FO and the scouting department.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 11:38 AM
On Winston:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/texans-cut-eric-winston/

I believe it was on Twitter that he was angry about not getting asked to at least renegotiate. He did have two years left on his deal, so there was room to maneuver. Signing a deal worth more money (5.5m a year with the Chiefs, vs 4.5m salary on the Texans) goes to show the Texans missed an opportunity to trade him. Why wouldn't the Chiefs or someone else trade a 6th or swap picks a round apart for Winston to take on his non-guaranteed deal? If he doesn't work out, cut him and he costs less than what they paid for him this year. If Winston Justice can be traded for a swap of 6th round picks and a salary of 3.25m, then Winston ought to be worth at least a 6th outright...

It does look like we missed an opportunity to trade Winston, doesn't it?

But we really don't know how it plays out behind the scene.

Perhaps, teams would rather pay an extra $M and keep their 6th rounder?

Ole Miss Texan
03-12-2013, 12:19 PM
It does look like we missed an opportunity to trade Winston, doesn't it?

But we really don't know how it plays out behind the scene.

Perhaps, teams would rather pay an extra $M and keep their 6th rounder?

True. Or maybe Winston wanted to stay in Houston and would have only renegotiated with a No Trade Clause. I couldn't see him taking a pay cut with the chance he'd be traded when he could just negotiate a higher contract with team(s) of his choosing.

Overall in the context this thread was constructed, I'm a Rick Smith fan and think he's done a great job improving this team.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 12:30 PM
True. Or maybe Winston wanted to stay in Houston and would have only renegotiated with a No Trade Clause. I couldn't see him taking a pay cut with the chance he'd be traded when he could just negotiate a higher contract with team(s) of his choosing.

Overall in the context this thread was constructed, I'm a Rick Smith fan and think he's done a great job improving this team.

I thought about the no-trade clause, too.

I mean, Winston has been a decent RT; it's not like he's garbage.
You've got to give something to get something; that's the way of good business.
The days of squeezing players are gone.
Now, it's a free market where the price is dictate by the "perceived" value of a certain player.
The agents know that; and those guys are sharks!

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 02:54 PM
I think it's been shown year in and year out that teams that rely upon free agency to build their teams don't win. How much money did Philly shell out for their "Dream Team"? They should be cutting Nnamdi today and they're no closer to competing for a playoff spot than Cleveland ever is.


Build through the draft.

Well the Patriots utilize FA as much if not more than drafts to assemble a team.

It's not a one or the other proposition, successfully acquiring players through either FA & the draft is the only way to build success.

Look at the Ravens, look at the 49ers, Giants, Steelers. They're active in FA. They just don't overpay for players (most players), they're willing to let their overpriced FAs walk, & they bring people in on the cheap.

Patriots took a chance on Moss & set records, traded a 2 & a 7 for Welker & broke records.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 03:03 PM
True. Or maybe Winston wanted to stay in Houston and would have only renegotiated with a No Trade Clause.

The way I remembered it, the Texans found out a few days before the start of the new season what the cap number was going to be. Similar to what we saw this year.

They had 4 days, maybe a week, to find a way to get under the cap. I'd like to think they put feelers out rather quickly to find out what they could do, in addition to what they already planned on doing, to get under the cap that fast.

I don't think cutting Winston was part of their original plan. But they were up against a wall & had to do something. Maybe they talked to his agent & the feeling they got back was, yes they'll restructure, but it was going to take some time & they didn't have any.

I'm not the biggest Eric Winston fan, most likely I'm the biggest anti-Winston fan. But what we did felt rushed & not thought out to me.

Dutchrudder
03-12-2013, 03:24 PM
ask the redskins and cowboys how that strategy worked out for them :rolleyes:

Under the bad calls:

3&4. Wasn't this what the Redskins and Cowboys were punished for? I'm pretty certain teams were told they couldn't front load contracts for the uncapped year without penalty.

I don't think this point is well understood, so let me explain it better. The two teams hit by the league for overspending were the Redskins and Cowboys. The two teams that were not given additional capspace due to being near the spending limit were the Saints and Raiders. The other 28 teams were given 1.6 million in additional capspace for 2012 or 2013 in order to make things "even" among the teams.

The league negotiated somewhere in the range of 145 million as the cap point for the year, and all teams above it would be penalized an amount of the overage, while the teams below it were given a measly 1.6 million in additional cap space. The Texans only spent 123 million against the cap that year, while resigning Demeco Ryans to a 48 million dollar deal, and AJ to a 73.5m dollar total contract. Instead of giving out signing bonuses that we are still paying off through 2016, they could have given large roster bonuses or frontloaded 2010 base salaries, which would have been absorbed by the 2010 cap.

The Texans missed out on 20+ million in capspace that year, because they wanted to run the team like there was a cap. That's on Rick, for not structuring legitimate contract extensions into that year. There were 15 other teams that decided to spend more than the Texans that year, 8 of which were in the playoffs that year. 3 of those teams played in their conference championships in 2010, and one went on to win the Super Bowl (Packers). I'm not saying it's all about the money, but it certainly helps.

As for what happened to the Cowboys and Redskins, I don't think it's fair to say they truly "lost capspace". Instead, they overspent in 2010 and had some of it added their 2011 and 2012 caps. They took full advantage of the uncapped year, and were able to offload a lot of future costs into it. Dallas lost 10 million over 2011/12. They spent 166.5 million in 2010, and could have spent up to 115m in 2011 and 115.6m 2012. They could have spent a total of 397.1 million over 3 years or 132.36 million a year average. Now I know they didn't spend exactly that much, but they had the extra cap space which is a competitive advantage.

For the Redskins they spent 178.2m in 2010, and lost 18m in the other years. So their 3 year max spending limit was: 178.2m + 102m + 102.6m = 382.8 / 3 years = 127.6m average.

Saints: 145 + 120 + 120.6 = 385.6 / 3 = 128.53

Packers: 135.3+120+120.6+1.6 = 377.5 / 3 = 125.83

Texans: 123.1 + 120 + 120.6 + 1.6 = 365.3 / 3 = 121.76

(note: with the cap rollover change in the new CBA, total capspace in 2011 and beyond is what matters, not the actual amount spent)

Those teams were still exceeding the cap of 120 million a year, while the Texans spent 123 million in 2010. So the Cowboys got an extra 30 million in total cap space, while others got less than that, but still more than the Texans. The Cowboys used that space to use to pay guys like Miles Austin and Demarcus Ware, who they knew they were going to keep. The Texans declined to pay guys like Ryans and AJ who were cornerstone players at the time, and they missed out on the extra capspace.

While many Cowboys and Redskin fans will claim they got shafted in this ordeal, the fact is their teams still had the most money to work with over the 3 year span affected by these decisions. Whether they spent it wisely is a whole different discussion, but the fact remains the Texans missed out on at least 20 million dollars in capspace which could have been useful today.

eriadoc
03-12-2013, 03:32 PM
I don't think this point is well understood, so let me explain it better.

MSR.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 04:03 PM
Well the Patriots utilize FA as much if not more than drafts to assemble a team.

It's not a one or the other proposition, successfully acquiring players through either FA & the draft is the only way to build success.

Look at the Ravens, look at the 49ers, Giants, Steelers. They're active in FA. They just don't overpay for players (most players), they're willing to let their overpriced FAs walk, & they bring people in on the cheap.

Patriots took a chance on Moss & set records, traded a 2 & a 7 for Welker & broke records.

Except the Patriots rarely go flashy with FA pickups. They seem to find guys that were sitting in someone else's garage or even their garbage cans. They grab players like Welker that 2 other teams had and didn't know what to do with. Or, they didn't have competent QBs that could get him the ball. He didn't cost them a lot when they first signed him.

Even Harrison, a key for their SB winning teams, didn't cost a lot after he'd been cut by San Diego. The same goes for Seau. They get guys on the cheap that can fill a role and don't sabotage the team by hamstringing their cap.

I don't mind the Texans getting involved at that level. I just hesitate when I see fans salivating over the Mike Wallace's of the FA world. He is going to get $10 million a year or more. We'd have to forget about keeping Watt when he becomes a FA or cut a lot of other core players.

How about this adjustment to my "Build through the draft" mantra?

Build through the draft and add a few value pieces in Free Agency.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 04:05 PM
MSR.

Got him.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 04:07 PM
Build through the draft and add a few value pieces in Free Agency.

How 'bout, "Dont Fk it up!!"

I think that covers most bases.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 05:14 PM
I can't say one way or another yet Dutch, got to study all the details, which I don't think I ever will.

What I know is that "cooking the book" always ends up in a bad way.
Stretching yourself too thin is another way.

On top of all the personnel moves the Skins pulled, even without knowing the details at the time, I figured they're gonna pay - just a matter of time.

ObsiWan
03-12-2013, 05:16 PM
:popcorn:
pass me some of that; when SheTexan sees this it's gonna get good.

http://starwars.com/img/explore/encyclopedia/characters/darthvader_relationship.png

ObsiWan
03-12-2013, 05:37 PM
I like Smith overall but damn; Amobi Okoye???????:gun:

Nobody, but nobody bats 1.000. I would put Amobi as the biggest swing-and-miss of his tenure. We could have had Patrick Willis to go along side DeMeco.

Thorn
03-12-2013, 05:45 PM
Rick Smith is at least above average, but I wouldn't go to much farther than that as long as Kubiak is still the head coach.

houstonspartan
03-12-2013, 06:40 PM
Meh, the Dunta deal doesn't count. We offered roughly the same amount of money as Atlanta. Dunta was an ass, and simply wanted to go to another team.

What will be really interesting is to see how he handles JJ Watt's next contract in a few years. In order to keep JJ, damn-near everybody will have to go.

JJ's next contract, Andre's likely retirement and Schaub's future will all hit this team around the same time in a few years. It'll be interesting to see how Smith handles each while building a competitive team.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 07:16 PM
Meh, the Dunta deal doesn't count. We offered roughly the same amount of money as Atlanta. Dunta was an ass, and simply wanted to go to another team.

What will be really interesting is to see how he handles JJ Watt's next contract in a few years. In order to keep JJ, damn-near everybody will have to go.

JJ's next contract, Andre's likely retirement and Schaub's future will all hit this team around the same time in a few years. It'll be interesting to see how Smith handles each while building a competitive team.

Watt can be franchised for a couple years, if needed. They get him done.

The current atmosphere in the NFL is the most difficult in the NFL in modern history. Teams are dealing with a cap that shrunk 2 years ago. The Texans have thrived in that environment with two consecutive playoff appearances and appear poised to continue success. They have a healthy cap situation, a stockpile of youth and draft picks. Smile!

Premier
03-12-2013, 07:56 PM
Hows that working out for Morey in the NBA again?

please stay in your lane..

People give this guy entirely too much credit for having done not much of anything but penny-pinch us all the way to the lotto for 78907 seasons...

penny-pinch?? thanks for admitting you have no clue about what your talking about. the NBA is a stars league, moreys money manipulation skills and ability to find value in low paid players would do wonders in the nfl.. moreys great at building teams that contribute around its stars. he just hasnt been able to find willing superstars to surround those guys with, not to mention that UNTIL NOW he simply hasnt had the cap space to actively pursue stars. he inherited 40 million dollars of cap space tied to ailing players tmac & yao and only recently has escaped the burden those contracts put on the franchise... morey has yet to have a losing season, and the rockets 3 straight lotto years, managed to stay above 500 without even a single all-star on the roster, posting records that would have them seeded 5-8 in the eastern conference

the guy consistently wins trades and is earning a reputation around he league as a guy you might not want to deal with. BUT, the way the man manipulates his deals and sets up his team with assets, other teams have no choice but to deal with him as he collects what other teams need, whether it be draft picks, expiring contracts, solid role players on rookie contracts. he makes moves and you only see what the deal is at face value, morey is making deals to set up other deals. the reason he was able to pull off the blockbuster deal for james harden was because of the combination of cap space and assets he compiled up years before.

the rockets are in a position to offer a max contract in free agency and can clear more space after moving lin or asik..

Wake me up when his moves actually lead to us winning a playoff series.

ummmm.. 2009 ring a bell.. not to mention pushing the eventual champs to game 7 with no center and ron artest was basically our best player.

the rockets curently have the lowest pay roll in the NBA($51,917,204), the youngest team in the league, and despite that have a shot at grabbing the 6 seed in the stacked west..

BullBlitz
03-12-2013, 08:03 PM
The NFL is confirming that Rick Smith has become a shrewd S.O.B.... Look at how his very difficult and controversial decisions the past few seasons have turned out:

1. Dunta Robinson- Falcons cut him 3 years into that monster deal.

2. Asomugha- remember how many people wanted us to get him. Disaster for Phillie! Joseph was cheaper, younger, and has been much better.

3. Winston- Surprising cut by Houston last year. Less surprising, KC cut him this year.

4. Demeco- We got out from under that contract and received to mid round picks. A year later, Phillie is struggling to keep him and he was part of an awful defense.

5. I wanted Barwin signed before last year. Smith didn't and he's going to be cheaper now.

6. Briesel- hardly worth $20 million he received last year (and we are about to get a 5th or 6th round pick as compensation for not letting him destroy our cap)

7. Jason Allen? Didn't miss him and about to be rewarded a 6th round compensatory pick for him.

8. Mario- Anyone doubt that anymore? (plus a 3rd rounder this year)

9. Kareem Jackson pick- Not looking too bad after last season.

10. 10-11 picks this year in the draft.

11. Literally, according to my info, Texans have $73,000 of dead money this year. Wow!

Yeah. Brilliant. Two wild card wins in 7 years. Shrewd.

:wadepalm:

SheTexan
03-12-2013, 08:13 PM
pass me some of that; when SheTexan sees this it's gonna get good.

http://starwars.com/img/explore/encyclopedia/characters/darthvader_relationship.png


She's pretty much staying away from the board for a spell! Remaining silent! :littlelol:

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 08:27 PM
Yeah. Brilliant. Two wild card wins in 7 years. Shrewd.

:wadepalm:

I don't get the cynicism... Let me guess, you also don't think much of Kubiak as a coach. Would I find other threads where you complain about Kubiak's failure to win with all the talent he has on the team.

meanwhile, on this thread, you mock Smith's ability to build a talented team.

Why you cynics spend your time and money rooting for these people you don't like or respect baffles me.

infantrycak
03-12-2013, 08:43 PM
Why you cynics spend your time and money rooting for these people you don't like or respect baffles me.

dale - he is a Colts fan.

dalemurphy
03-12-2013, 08:44 PM
dale - he is a Colts fan.

Well, in that case, I should congratulate him on a good quip.

Texan_Bill
03-12-2013, 08:47 PM
Well, in that case, I should congratulate him on a good quip.

Not to mention that the Colts went 11-5 with a rookie QB and have (if I heard this correctly) about $40 million under the cap to spend... :eek:

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 08:58 PM
Not to mention that the Colts went 11-5 with a rookie QB and have (if I heard this correctly) about $40 million under the cap to spend... :eek:

They had ate over $30M in dead money last season.

Doppelganger
03-12-2013, 09:09 PM
Nobody, but nobody bats 1.000. I would put Amobi as the biggest swing-and-miss of his tenure. We could have had Patrick Willis to go along side DeMeco.

Or revis next to dunta.

Jules Winnfield
03-12-2013, 09:19 PM
we need a daryl morey analytics centered gm especially in a sport like football where spending smart money is of even greater importance than the nba.

IF we dont have a analytics centered approach, we are behind the curve.

Maddict5
03-12-2013, 09:30 PM
Nobody, but nobody bats 1.000. I would put Amobi as the biggest swing-and-miss of his tenure. We could have had Patrick Willis to go along side DeMeco.

..and maybe robert ayers or larry english instead of cushing too since we wouldve had our lb's covered in 09 :thisbig:

BullBlitz
03-12-2013, 09:39 PM
I don't get the cynicism... Let me guess, you also don't think much of Kubiak as a coach. Would I find other threads where you complain about Kubiak's failure to win with all the talent he has on the team.

meanwhile, on this thread, you mock Smith's ability to build a talented team.

Why you cynics spend your time and money rooting for these people you don't like or respect baffles me.

I don't actually.

But it doesn't change the fact that Huey, Dewey and Louie over on Kirby can't get their team to an AFC Playoff game without buying them tickets.

Texan_Bill
03-12-2013, 09:50 PM
They had ate over $30M in dead money last season.

"pay me a ton manning"


That's what is really scary. They ate all of that last year, went 11-5 and have a ton to spend this year with a second year QB......... Who we all know is pretty dern good. I'm not sure the Texans should be the favorite to win the AFCS this year.

BullBlitz
03-12-2013, 09:59 PM
"pay me a ton manning"


That's what is really scary. They ate all of that last year, went 11-5 and have a ton to spend this year with a second year QB......... Who we all know is pretty dern good. I'm not sure the Texans should be the favorite to win the AFCS this year.

Nor am I.

I thought that the high expectations for last season were unwarranted, but ten they surprised everyone with a very strong run, only to choke in the last lap. I don't think that winning the division s that big of a deal. The bye week that comes with it proves to help some teams and hurt others.

thunderkyss
03-13-2013, 08:35 AM
"pay me a ton manning"


That's what is really scary. They ate all of that last year, went 11-5 and have a ton to spend this year with a second year QB......... Who we all know is pretty dern good. I'm not sure the Texans should be the favorite to win the AFCS this year.

I saw nothing but smoke & mirrors from Indy. That's generally pretty difficult to repeat. I know they are/were better than the 2-14 team from 2011, I know they aren't/weren't as good as the 11-5 team we saw in 2012. Next year, we'll get a better idea of who they really are. I'm betting they finish behind the Titans.

I don't think that winning the division s that big of a deal. The bye week that comes with it proves to help some teams and hurt others.

The only thing you get for winning the division is a home game. The bye week is awarded to the teams with the best W/L record.

HOU-TEX
03-13-2013, 09:59 AM
Not to mention that the Colts went 11-5 with a rookie QB and have (if I heard this correctly) about $40 million under the cap to spend... :eek:

I think they still have around 20 to spend after signing 4-5 players yesterday

Dutchrudder
03-13-2013, 10:04 AM
"pay me a ton manning"


That's what is really scary. They ate all of that last year, went 11-5 and have a ton to spend this year with a second year QB......... Who we all know is pretty dern good. I'm not sure the Texans should be the favorite to win the AFCS this year.

I think they still have around 20 to spend after signing 4-5 players yesterday

I wouldn't worry about the Colts too much, they overpaid a bunch of guys that are JAGs or slightly better. They really should be looking to keep Freeney though, that's the best signing they could make this year.

TexanBacker93
03-13-2013, 11:03 AM
I saw nothing but smoke & mirrors from Indy. That's generally pretty difficult to repeat. I know they are/were better than the 2-14 team from 2011, I know they aren't/weren't as good as the 11-5 team we saw in 2012. Next year, we'll get a better idea of who they really are. I'm betting they finish behind the Titans.


I'm not sure if they finish behind the Titans, although it could be close. I'm in agreement about the smoke and mirrors, though. Between the point differential, the huge turnover margin, and the fact that teams will be more ready for them lead me to think they take a slight step back.

They played with a lot of emotion with the Pagano situation and I'm not to certain that he's the better coach between him and Arians. You add a new OC into the mix and that could be another hurdle for them.

I think they'll be a tough team for years to come, but I think it's premature to engrave their name on the AFC South trophy yet. I think they are another year away from being there.

76Texan
03-13-2013, 01:13 PM
Yeah TB, why do you even have to worry about the Colts.

And Luck didn't look good in the play-offs game against the Ravens that I just rewatched last night.

He only attempted about 3 or 4 passes in the 15-22 yard range; none longer (may be an incompletion.)

I think he threw an INT or 2 (and there were at least a couple that should have been intercepted, and at least another that had a chance to be intercepted.)

He's a pretty good QB, but he doesn't belong in the top ten.
I'm not sure if he'll make it there either.

The Third Man
03-13-2013, 07:26 PM
Then we'll see how good he is. I have my doubts that he'll be able to bring in a true max player.

James F-ing Harden is on the team. Did you think they were going to get him with Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry and a draft pick? Jesus.

Texecutioner
03-13-2013, 09:47 PM
we need a daryl morey analytics centered gm especially in a sport like football where spending smart money is of even greater importance than the nba.

IF we dont have a analytics centered approach, we are behind the curve.

Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly. :kitten:

leebigeztx
03-13-2013, 09:51 PM
Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly. :kitten:

Oh , you mean by trading for and signing guys to play with a guy who missed an entire season? Or what about trading the 8th pick in the draft for glue? C'mon, morey hasnt done anything either. He's on the path because he got Harden, but he also gave a dude 8m who he cut in preseason and is average at best.

Texecutioner
03-13-2013, 09:57 PM
Umm, we got a 3rd and a 4th for Demeco Ryans last year. Not bad for an aging, MLB, one year removed from a torn achilles tendon who was a liability in pass coverage when he was young and healthy.

How about the trade down in 2008 to drop back and grab Duane Brown one pick before the Chargers grabbed him. How does that move look now?

How about last off-season when he got us cap healthy without sacrificing the season and landed us (likely) 4 compensatory draft picks for this year, including a 3rd rounder?

How about outbidding the Bears a few years ago for an UDFA, offering a rare two year contract to lure him out of Chicago: Arian Foster?


He has let Dunta walk, and he let Mario walk away despite a lot of noise suggesting it was very foolish to do so... The Texans did have a choice, by the way. They could have restructured contracts and chosen not to pay some of Foster, Brown, Myers, Schaub... electing to "win now" with Mario and worry about the future when they had to. Good thing Rick and company avoided that nonsense!

This is the best you can do??? Lol!

You totally just made my point for me as usual Dale.

Rick Smith looked like a clown for what he let go of Demeco for. He could have gotten better assets then that.

And spare me with this moving up or down a few spots in 3rd rounds of drafts when you have no clue would have been there or wouldn't have been there. That isn't saying anything at all.

And you had the nerve to bring up last off season as if Rick Smith did well? Lol! Did you not see how bad our WR's were this season. I went on and on about it all off season and called Rick Smith still an amateur for what happened to the cap that fast which handcuffed him from being able to get help at WR's. We relied on unproven rookies to do the job. Shrewd GM there. Lol! I don't want to hear jack about last off season, because I warned many on this board that the WR's would struggle badly and they did and it hurt the team a lot.

If there is any props I'll give to Smith is that he has been able to draft well in the first round the last few years, but a lot of that goes to Kubiak and Wade who essentially tell these guys the players that they want. Smith has a say so for sure, but Kubiak has always been very involved in draft picks and Wade pretty much got his way the last two seasons.

Texecutioner
03-13-2013, 10:00 PM
Oh , you mean by trading for and signing guys to play with a guy who missed an entire season? Or what about trading the 8th pick in the draft for glue? C'mon, morey hasnt done anything either. He's on the path because he got Harden, but he also gave a dude 8m who he cut in preseason and is average at best.

In the NBA your team aint **** unless you have a top of the line superstar franchise player. The Rockets can't and haven't been able to get that, but it hasn't been from a lack of trying. Franchise players don't go to teams who don't already have one or at least two in most cases now days, and Morey's been screwed on that note ever since Tmac and Yao fizzled out. You either have a franchise player or you don't in the NBA. If you don't your team will never be a contender. I've said that for years to folks in here and haven't been proven wrong yet. But for everything else Morey has been able to strike all sorts of deals where he got over on other teams. I'm pretty surprised that teams even still trade with him at this point.

leebigeztx
03-13-2013, 10:08 PM
In the NBA your team aint **** unless you have a top of the line superstar franchise player. The Rockets can't and haven't been able to get that, but it hasn't been from a lack of trying. Franchise players don't go to teams who don't already have one or at least two in most cases now days, and Morey's been screwed on that note ever since Tmac and Yao fizzled out. You either have a franchise player or you don't in the NBA. If you don't your team will never be a contender. I've said that for years to folks in here and haven't been proven wrong yet. But for everything else Morey has been able to strike all sorts of deals where he got over on other teams. I'm pretty surprised that teams even still trade with him at this point.

He traded the #8 pick for a role player. He continued to build around Yao even though he was done when he hit the floor in la. He should started right then and not ever traded for martin and let scola go, suck for a year or 2 get a high draft pick. Instead, we kept going .500 with a limited upside team. I'm also assuming you forgot about the vetoed trade that wouldve sent CPto La and they wouldve still been able to get Howard. C'mon, smith has done just as good, if not a better job than morey.

BullBlitz
03-13-2013, 10:49 PM
This is the best you can do??? Lol!

You totally just made my point for me as usual Dale.

Rick Smith looked like a clown for what he let go of Demeco for. He could have gotten better assets then that.

And spare me with this moving up or down a few spots in 3rd rounds of drafts when you have no clue would have been there or wouldn't have been there. That isn't saying anything at all.

And you had the nerve to bring up last off season as if Rick Smith did well? Lol! Did you not see how bad our WR's were this season. I went on and on about it all off season and called Rick Smith still an amateur for what happened to the cap that fast which handcuffed him from being able to get help at WR's. We relied on unproven rookies to do the job. Shrewd GM there. Lol! I don't want to hear jack about last off season, because I warned many on this board that the WR's would struggle badly and they did and it hurt the team a lot.

If there is any props I'll give to Smith is that he has been able to draft well in the first round the last few years, but a lot of that goes to Kubiak and Wade who essentially tell these guys the players that they want. Smith has a say so for sure, but Kubiak has always been very involved in draft picks and Wade pretty much got his way the last two seasons.

Exactly. The minimal success that they've had has been in spite of Smith, not because of him.

Texecutioner
03-13-2013, 11:33 PM
He traded the #8 pick for a role player.

You talk as if draft picks mean a thing in the NBA now days. I mean what is a draft pick in the last 6 years or so??

He continued to build around Yao even though he was done when he hit the floor in la.

You honestly believe that it was Morey who held onto Yao?? Come on now. Morey had his hands tied to Yao more like it. Les Alexander was never going to part ways with Yao Ming. Les would have let Morey go before he would have allowed any GM to deal Yao while he was still non retired with the ability to rehab and attempt to still play.



He should started right then and not ever traded for martin and let scola go, suck for a year or 2 get a high draft pick. Instead, we kept going .500 with a limited upside team.

Well I agree with you that it would have been better off probably to do it that way, but that isn't realistic at all to think that any GM would do that when they were good enough to go at least slightly over 500 and fight for a playoff spot. No GM would want to put their job on the line by tanking for certain draft picks. I would have liked for that to have been the outcome, but I never once thought that Morey would do something like that, nor would I expect him to risk his job like that.

I'm also assuming you forgot about the vetoed trade that wouldve sent CPto La and they wouldve still been able to get Howard. C'mon, smith has done just as good, if not a better job than morey.

I hated that trade. Yeah, Gasol is so bad ass this year isn't he? Gasol is a nice player that I've always appreciated, but he was hardly a real piece for us, and why on earth would you even mention Howard at this point?? I hated the idea of Howard last off season, and boy do I hate it even more now after seeing his stint in LA. I'd never trust that guy after seeing how he acted in Orlando. Morey is waiting patiently to find that right superstar or the closest thing to it, and he'll pull trigger. It's a matter of being able to get other superstars to join the Rockets team. With the Beard here, I think they have a much better chance going forward.

The NBA is a much bigger crap shoot all around now days though. Realistically there are really only 3 teams that even have a chance now days and about 3 other decent contenders. The rest of the NBA are all a bunch of random teams that have no shot.

tru80texan
03-13-2013, 11:43 PM
Exactly. The minimal success that they've had has been in spite of Smith, not because of him.

Hard to argue w/ that. Smith's best work was when his job was on the line & he was forced to acquire some real talent in FA, Manning & Joesph, to save it as opposed to the poor talent he was accustomed to aquiring such Jacque Reeves. He then followed it up w/ a good defensive draft that he & Kubiak gave Wade credit for w/ his preparation & assistance in selecting players. Smith has not been impressive to me either & this offseason hasnt helped his case thus far. It's still early, but I've got my doubts.

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 11:46 PM
I would venture a guess that Mike Sherman had something to do with it



gotta dig deep in order to find the mythical 7th round bust

Yep

But Wade had nothing to do with bringing in Watt,Reed, JoJo,Manning etc....

TexanSam
03-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly. :kitten:

Cap hell? Exaggeration much? The Texans have cap issues, but not being able to re-sign the guys that have moved on to other teams hardly constitutes cap hell. Ignore free agency? So you're just going to discount Rick Smith's role in signing Jonathon Joseph and Danieal Manning? Seems like the Texans were active then. You're blowing things way out of proportion.

And you're comparing apples and oranges between NBA GMs and NFL GMs. Trades are rare in the NFL. They happen, but there are very few instances when star players are moved. It's usually role players and/or draft picks.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 11:49 PM
Hard to argue w/ that. Smith's best work was when his job was on the line & he was forced to acquire some real talent in FA, Manning & Joesph, to save it as opposed to the poor talent he was accustomed to aquiring such Jacque Reeves. He then followed it up w/ a good defensive draft that he & Kubiak gave Wade credit for w/ his preparation & assistance in selecting players. Smith has not been impressive to me either & this offseason hasnt helped his case thus far. It's still early, but I've got my doubts.

Overall I'd say he's been ok as a GM. We've never been super aggressive in free agency, but he's had some good drafts. He's had some duds mixed in with some diamonds in the draft and free agency. Just in the past couple of years you've seen how eager teams have been to acquire talent off of our team so he's done a decent job of evaluating if you just base it purely on that.

There's probably a happy medium in between the Smith haters and lovers on how good a job he has done, but you can just look around the league every year. No team's fanbase is going to be completely happy with the moves they make.

rolyat93
03-13-2013, 11:52 PM
Hows that working out for Morey in the NBA again? People give this guy entirely too much credit for having done not much of anything but penny-pinch us all the way to the lotto for 78907 seasons...Wake me up when his moves actually lead to us winning a playoff series.

Watch more basketball, Morey is a lock for GM of the year this season.

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 11:53 PM
You talk as if draft picks mean a thing in the NBA now days. I mean what is a draft pick in the last 6 years or so??



You honestly believe that it was Morey who held onto Yao?? Come on now. Morey had his hands tied to Yao more like it. Les Alexander was never going to part ways with Yao Ming. Les would have let Morey go before he would have allowed any GM to deal Yao while he was still non retired with the ability to rehab and attempt to still play.





Well I agree with you that it would have been better off probably to do it that way, but that isn't realistic at all to think that any GM would do that when they were good enough to go at least slightly over 500 and fight for a playoff spot. No GM would want to put their job on the line by tanking for certain draft picks. I would have liked for that to have been the outcome, but I never once thought that Morey would do something like that, nor would I expect him to risk his job like that.



I hated that trade. Yeah, Gasol is so bad ass this year isn't he? Gasol is a nice player that I've always appreciated, but he was hardly a real piece for us, and why on earth would you even mention Howard at this point?? I hated the idea of Howard last off season, and boy do I hate it even more now after seeing his stint in LA. I'd never trust that guy after seeing how he acted in Orlando. Morey is waiting patiently to find that right superstar or the closest thing to it, and he'll pull trigger. It's a matter of being able to get other superstars to join the Rockets team. With the Beard here, I think they have a much better chance going forward.

The NBA is a much bigger crap shoot all around now days though. Realistically there are really only 3 teams that even have a chance now days and about 3 other decent contenders. The rest of the NBA are all a bunch of random teams that have no shot.

Not doing the NBA thingy

But you've got to admit Morey has done more with less and had more difficult perameters to work under with Les being the owner. Morey is a far more intelligent GM that's willing to take risks Rick would never take.

steelbtexan
03-13-2013, 11:56 PM
Overall I'd say he's been ok as a GM. We've never been super aggressive in free agency, but he's had some good drafts. He's had some duds mixed in with some diamonds in the draft and free agency. Just in the past couple of years you've seen how eager teams have been to acquire talent off of our team so he's done a decent job of evaluating if you just base it purely on that.

There's probably a happy medium in between the Smith haters and lovers on how good a job he has done, but you can just look around the league every year. No team's fanbase is going to be completely happy with the moves they make.

Meanwhile teams like the Seahawks are doing laps around teams like the Texans when it comes to the draft/FA/trades.

Texn4life
03-13-2013, 11:58 PM
Meanwhile teams like the Seahawks are doing laps around teams like the Texans when it comes to the draft/FA/trades.

The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.

76Texan
03-14-2013, 12:19 AM
The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.

Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.

76Texan
03-14-2013, 12:23 AM
Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.

$34M guaranteed; the biggest amount ever to a non-QB rookie.

Down the drain, LOL!

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 12:25 AM
Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.

Sidney Rice, Tavaris Jackson, talk Golden Tate could be on his way out. Traded for and paid big money for a backup QB....... every front office is prone to making mistakes.

I will give them that they had the hands down best draft in the league last year, and they should be commended for it but I'm not gonna act like they've been perfect. There's a very good chance the Percy Harvin trade could blow up in their faces.

Texecutioner
03-14-2013, 12:25 AM
Cap hell? Exaggeration much? The Texans have cap issues, but not being able to re-sign the guys that have moved on to other teams hardly constitutes cap hell. Ignore free agency? So you're just going to discount Rick Smith's role in signing Jonathon Joseph and Danieal Manning? Seems like the Texans were active then. You're blowing things way out of proportion.

And you're comparing apples and oranges between NBA GMs and NFL GMs. Trades are rare in the NFL. They happen, but there are very few instances when star players are moved. It's usually role players and/or draft picks.

I didn't discount anything. Do you not realize that all you can bring up is one off season where Rick was highly competitive in improving this team? That is a horrible ratio for a guy that is in like his 7th off season. And that also happened to be the year we brought in Wade Phillips who needed to transform an entire defense. You have one active off season to credit the guy on. Sorry, but I don't see how you could be happy with those types of results. If I am highly impressed with what Morey has been able to do under his circumstances, that ought to tell you that I don't expect every move to be a great deal that worked or expect a SB to like the GM. Morey is constantly aggressive in his persuit to better the Houston Rockets though. Rick Smith has never been that guy other then one off season by your own admission, so I don't see why you wouldn't want to see more consistency in that approach.

76Texan
03-14-2013, 12:32 AM
I didn't discount anything. Do you not realize that all you can bring up is one off season where Rick was highly competitive in improving this team? That is a horrible ratio for a guy that is in like his 7th off season. And that also happened to be the year we brought in Wade Phillips who needed to transform an entire defense. You have one active off season to credit the guy on. Sorry, but I don't see how you could be happy with those types of results. If I am highly impressed with what Morey has been able to do under his circumstances, that ought to tell you that I don't expect every move to be a great deal that worked or expect a SB to like the GM. Morey is constantly aggressive in his persuit to better the Houston Rockets though. Rick Smith has never been that guy other then one off season by your own admission, so I don't see why you wouldn't want to see more consistency in that approach.

I don't know Tex, I think every year with Rick Smith has been at least solid.
The proof is in the players that other teams want when they left the Texans.

Texecutioner
03-14-2013, 12:42 AM
I don't know Tex, I think every year with Rick Smith has been at least solid.
The proof is in the players that other teams want when they left the Texans.

I said before that in hind sight I can look back at a few of his drafts and say that he's made several solid picks, but mainly in the first round. The only thing is that how much of that do I credit to Kubiak or Wade as well?

But as far as free agency or trades go, there is hardly an argument to be made that he's done much of a thing. He had that one off season which I'll credit him for with Manning and Joseph, but that's it. He got Antonio Smith who has been pretty good, but that off season wasn't some great one that year based on that alone.

PRetty much the high majority of any success that Rick can hang his hat on is the draft, which mainly has to do with his philosophy of building only through the draft which is my point from the start. His philosophy in general is what I have a big problem with.

tru80texan
03-14-2013, 12:49 AM
The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.

That is true & how long did it take Pete Carroll to accomplish what took the kubiak & Smith combo to do since 2007?? Kinda sad if you think about it w/ that comparison.

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 12:50 AM
Trades are rare in the league and rarely workout though Tex. Even though they had so many picks it didn't matter look at the Patriots last few. In the Rick Smith era we've really only had the one offseason where we could spend aggressively. I'm not saying he's done a bang up job, but just not as bad as some others make it sound.

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 12:51 AM
I don't know Tex, I think every year with Rick Smith has been at least solid.
The proof is in the players that other teams want when they left the Texans.

Soli would be correct,

Meanwhile the Hawks took risks.

Signing Lynch, who Texan fans wantednothing to do with.

Drafting Wilson in the 3rd even though they had just signed Flynn in FA, Sherman in the 5th,Browner as a CFL FA, Sweazy as a DT and moving him to OG, then starting him as a rookie, drafting Irvin at 13 when most had him as a 2-3 rd pick, picking up Baldwin as a UNDFA.

Trading for Clemons/Zach Miller/Giacomini/Harvin

Signing Avril/Rice in FA

Tell me what Rick/Gary have done/taken risks?

If they can sign Woodson or Reed and add a vet WR that can play they've had a good offseason. But dont compare them to the Seahawks even if they miss on a couple of guys. Atleast they're doing everthing they can to try to win a SB.

BTW, RB Robert Turbin is a stud that few have heard of, but yeah they missed on Curry. Rick has missed on many more. The word smarter and Rick Smith should never be mentioned in the same sentence. (Right She Texan, Gma)

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 12:54 AM
That is true & how long did it take Pete Carroll to accomplish what took the kubiak & Smith combo to do since 2007?? Kinda sad if you think about it w/ that comparison.

Anyone should be embarrassed the way they walked into one of those playoff wins though. 7-9 with a home game? Congrats to them for winning but that is a complete sham. Last year they had an awesome draft, and hit some homeruns with Browner and Loudmouth before that. Great job on their part, but if the end result is what they've accomplished then they're in the same boat as us despite them getting there 3 years sooner.

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 12:58 AM
Anyone should be embarrassed the way they walked into one of those playoff wins though. 7-9 with a home game? Congrats to them for winning but that is a complete sham. Last year they had an awesome draft, and hit some homeruns with Browner and Loudmouth before that. Great job on their part, but if the end result is what they've accomplished then they're in the same boat as us despite them getting there 3 years sooner.

I sure would like to have those 3 seasons and all of that season ticketholder $$$$ back and have a winner sooner. LOL

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 01:00 AM
Trades are rare in the league and rarely workout though Tex. Even though they had so many picks it didn't matter look at the Patriots last few. In the Rick Smith era we've really only had the one offseason where we could spend aggressively. I'm not saying he's done a bang up job, but just not as bad as some others make it sound.

And whose fault is that? Doesn't cap management fall under Ricks watch?

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 01:03 AM
And whose fault is that? Doesn't cap management fall under Ricks watch?

From what I remember he inherited a pretty suspect cap situation and a bad team. Hard to get good players to come play for you when you're in that position.

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 01:03 AM
I said before that in hind sight I can look back at a few of his drafts and say that he's made several solid picks, but mainly in the first round. The only thing is that how much of that do I credit to Kubiak or Wade as well?

But as far as free agency or trades go, there is hardly an argument to be made that he's done much of a thing. He had that one off season which I'll credit him for with Manning and Joseph, but that's it. He got Antonio Smith who has been pretty good, but that off season wasn't some great one that year based on that alone.

PRetty much the high majority of any success that Rick can hang his hat on is the draft, which mainly has to do with his philosophy of building only through the draft which is my point from the start. His philosophy in general is what I have a big problem with.

Lets just say my philosophy is more in line with Carroll than Gary/Rick.

tru80texan
03-14-2013, 01:05 AM
Anyone should be embarrassed the way they walked into one of those playoff wins though. 7-9 with a home game? Congrats to them for winning but that is a complete sham. Last year they had an awesome draft, and hit some homeruns with Browner and Loudmouth before that. Great job on their part, but if the end result is what they've accomplished then they're in the same boat as us despite them getting there 3 years sooner.

You mentioned it, not me. I'm just pointing out that, as you stated, the Seahawks made it there A LOT quicker & are building a solid foundation as we continue to lose some of ours by not being able to re-sign our young players & not necessarily filling in those positions w/ equal or better talent. That is at best an "ok" job by Smith..."at best" are the key words & I'm not necessarily sure if I can agree w/ that depending on this young offseason. Teams have accomplished what Smith & Kubiak have tried to accomplish in less time & they still haven't necessarily created a proven winner for years to come as they have obviously struggled outside of the Wild Card round. Losing young talent is not necessarily the formula for sustained success, but how can it be avoided when Smith is trying to clean up the mess he created w/ the salary cap. We will see what Smith can do shortly, but Ive got some concerns based on his spotty past.

tru80texan
03-14-2013, 01:09 AM
From what I remember he inherited a pretty suspect cap situation and a bad team. Hard to get good players to come play for you when you're in that position.

No he didn't. It's been 6 YEARS & none of Casserly's players remain nor do their contracts. This is Smith's players & team. At some point the blame has go to whom it belongs to & it's Smith. That Casserly/ Capers fault excuse is a tired excuse & completely false at this point.

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 01:10 AM
You mentioned it, not me. I'm just pointing out that, as you stated, the Seahawks made it there A LOT quicker & are building a solid foundation as we continue to lose some of ours by not being able to re-sign our young players & not necessarily filling in those positions w/ equal or better talent. That is at best an "ok" job by Smith..."at best" are the key words & I'm not necessarily sure if I can agree w/ that depending on this young offseason. Teams have accomplished what Smith & Kubiak have tried to accomplish in less time & they still haven't necessarily created a proven winner for years to come as they have obviously struggled outside of the Wild Card round. Losing young talent is not necessarily the formula for sustained success, but how can it be avoided when Smith is trying to clean up the mess he created w/ the salary cap. We will see what Smith can do shortly, but Ive got some concerns based on his spotty past.

Look, I said that Rick Smith hasn't been all world, but watch what happens to that Seahawk team the next few years. They're gonna lose some of their good guys just like everyone else. But I'm going to let you guys continue to debate this. I stand in the "he's ok crowd".

Texn4life
03-14-2013, 01:13 AM
No he didn't. It's been 6 YEARS & none of Casserly's players remain nor do their contracts. This is Smith's players & team. At some point the blame has go to whom it belongs to & it's Smith. That Casserly/ Capers fault excuse is a tired excuse & completely false at this point.

I was referring to when he first came in to be the GM. Did he oversign some average guys because no top players wanted to come here? Yes, again let me remind you I said I'm in the he's ok crowd.

infantrycak
03-14-2013, 01:15 AM
No he didn't. It's been 6 YEARS & none of Casserly's players remain nor do their contracts. This is Smith's players & team. At some point the blame has go to whom it belongs to & it's Smith. That Casserly/ Capers fault excuse is a tired excuse & completely false at this point.

Yes he did inherit a crappy cap situation with tons of dead money in contracts for Walker, Wade, etc. who could not contribute. The team is Smith's and Kubiak's now but it is accurate to say they started off behind the 8-ball.

Texecutioner
03-14-2013, 01:19 AM
Yes he did inherit a crappy cap situation with tons of dead money in contracts for Walker, Wade, etc. who could not contribute. The team is Smith's and Kubiak's now but it is accurate to say they started off behind the 8-ball.

Which is the case for every HC that takes over a below 500 team. I've never understood why you guys have hyped that excuse up so heavily for Smithiak the first 3 to 4 years. You are right that it's an accurate assessment, but it isn't anything that tons of other coaches haven't had to walk into when they're the new hire just like Kubiak was.

dalemurphy
03-14-2013, 01:23 AM
And whose fault is that? Doesn't cap management fall under Ricks watch?

No. the capologist has been some guy named Olson, i think.


and McNair sets the budget. Smith has done a great job after a bad first year (2007) executing within the parameters he has been given, IMO.

This shouldn't be missed... Right now the Texans have elite NFL players at numerous positions, all brought here by Smith, and Smith did so in unconventional ways or in unpopular moves:

1. Duane Brown- remember that pick, #26... People were livid that he reached. Well, he's universally regarded as one of the three best LTs in football now.

2. Brian Cushing- his pick was heavily criticized because Cushing was a "workout warrior who didn't love football". He's arguably the best ILB in the NFL.

3. Arian Foster- UDFA... Smith stole him from the Bears by offering him a two year contract as an UDFA. That is very seldom done. Foster is one of the top 5 backs in the NFL.

4. J.J.Watt- people were luke warm on him... Smith, drafting 9th, selected the best defensive player since LT.

5. K.Jackson- He was persecuted for this pick when it happened. Then, when David Gibbs (a coach Smith did not want to hire but Kubiak hired anyway) coached him up, he looked like a bad version of Faggins... Now, Jackson is 1/2 of a cornerback tandem that is among the best in the NFL.

6. J.Joseph- is the other half of that tandem. Everyone wanted Asomugha but Smith saved some money and grabbed the young, more versatile, more athletic J.JO.

Not many teams in the NFL have anywhere near a list of elite, young NFL players like the one I just listed.

Since 2008, Rick Smith's moves have been consistently proven to be good... He's made some mistakes, usually small ones, but he has made many good decisions that have set the Texan organization up for long term success.

Despite having to purge some players last year as the cap tightened, the Texans put together enough pieces for a 12 win season and are now have a healthy cap situation and likely 4 extra draft picks resulting from last season's frugality.

Moving forward, the Texans are in position to collect another bundle of compensatory picks for 2014 as roughly 10 or 11 of their unrestricted free agents are likely to sign qualifying deals with other teams. Meanwhile, the Texans have about $11 million under the cap to add some veteran help and re-sign some of their free agents before adding 11 more players in the April draft.

Also, they have talented players with upside and experience contributing as rookies and second year players for a playoff team... for instance:

Derek Newton
Ben Jones
Brandon Brooks
D. Posey
Keyshawn Martin
Lestar Jean
Garrett Graham
Klutts
Ben Tate
Jared Crick
Tim Jamison
Earl Mitchell
Mercilus
Brooks Reed
Bryan Braman
Brandon Harris

It's an impressive resume that Rick has put together. One that most of the NFL respects.

tru80texan
03-14-2013, 01:23 AM
Yes he did inherit a crappy cap situation with tons of dead money in contracts for Walker, Wade, etc. who could not contribute. The team is Smith's and Kubiak's now but it is accurate to say they started off behind the 8-ball.

You are correct & that's what I meant to be honest. Initially Smith had a mess, but the issues now are his & his alone. When all else fails too many STILL try to fall back on the Casserly/ Capers excuse which is no longer valid at this point.

tru80texan
03-14-2013, 01:30 AM
No. the capologist has been some guy named Olson, i think.


and McNair sets the budget. Smith has done a great job after a bad first year (2007) executing within the parameters he has been given, IMO.

This shouldn't be missed... Right now the Texans have elite NFL players at numerous positions, all brought here by Smith, and Smith did so in unconventional ways or in unpopular moves:

1. Duane Brown- remember that pick, #26... People were livid that he reached. Well, he's universally regarded as one of the three best LTs in football now.

2. Brian Cushing- his pick was heavily criticized because Cushing was a "workout warrior who didn't love football". He's arguably the best ILB in the NFL.

3. Arian Foster- UDFA... Smith stole him from the Bears by offering him a two year contract as an UDFA. That is very seldom done. Foster is one of the top 5 backs in the NFL.

4. J.J.Watt- people were luke warm on him... Smith, drafting 9th, selected the best defensive player since LT.

5. K.Jackson- He was persecuted for this pick when it happened. Then, when David Gibbs (a coach Smith did not want to hire but Kubiak hired anyway) coached him up, he looked like a bad version of Faggins... Now, Jackson is 1/2 of a cornerback tandem that is among the best in the NFL.

6. J.Joseph- is the other half of that tandem. Everyone wanted Asomugha but Smith saved some money and grabbed the young, more versatile, more athletic J.JO.

Not many teams in the NFL have anywhere near a list of elite, young NFL players like the one I just listed.

Since 2008, Rick Smith's moves have been consistently proven to be good... He's made some mistakes, usually small ones, but he has made many good decisions that have set the Texan organization up for long term success.

Despite having to purge some players last year as the cap tightened, the Texans put together enough pieces for a 12 win season and are now have a healthy cap situation and likely 4 extra draft picks resulting from last season's frugality.

Moving forward, the Texans are in position to collect another bundle of compensatory picks for 2014 as roughly 10 or 11 of their unrestricted free agents are likely to sign qualifying deals with other teams. Meanwhile, the Texans have about $11 million under the cap to add some veteran help and re-sign some of their free agents before adding 11 more players in the April draft.

Also, they have talented players with upside and experience contributing as rookies and second year players for a playoff team... for instance:

Derek Newton
Ben Jones
Brandon Brooks
D. Posey
Keyshawn Martin
Lestar Jean
Garrett Graham
Klutts
Ben Tate
Jared Crick
Tim Jamison
Earl Mitchell
Mercilus
Brooks Reed
Bryan Braman
Brandon Harris

It's an impressive resume that Rick has put together. One that most of the NFL respects.

While I can agree w/ some of this, most of contains exaggerations that would simply take to long to reply to them all. So all I can really say is...have another glass on me :koolaid:.

dalemurphy
03-14-2013, 01:30 AM
You are correct & that's what I meant to be honest. Initially Smith had a mess, but the issues now are his & his alone. When all else fails too many STILL try to fall back on the Casserly/ Capers excuse which is no longer valid at this point.

Smith, as GM, can only acquire the pieces. He has done that. Does anyone disagree that he has assembled a very talented and young team? It is a team that has won the division and a playoff game each of the past two seasons without any beneficial anomalies like abnormally good team health or inordinate amount of close wins. This is a team where the bulk of the talent is on the front side of its career. Given Smith's success in the draft the past 4 years and the team's ability to acquire extra compensatory picks the next few seasons, the expiring veteran contracts and cap-friendly contracts, I don't expect the talent level or production to drop... do you? why?

infantrycak
03-14-2013, 01:32 AM
Which is the case for every HC that takes over a below 500 team. I've never understood why you guys have hyped that excuse up so heavily for Smithiak the first 3 to 4 years. You are right that it's an accurate assessment, but it isn't anything that tons of other coaches haven't had to walk into when they're the new hire just like Kubiak was.

I am not hyping anything. I didn't bring it up. I merely noted it was an accurate statement in the face of a denial.

I think the Texans were carrying more dead money than usual but really don't feel like arguing about it. You might look at the crud teams and regime change teams this year and you will find many with considerable cap space, but as I said the team is now Smith and Kubiak's.

dalemurphy
03-14-2013, 01:33 AM
While I can agree w/ some of this, most of contains exaggerations that would simply take to long to reply to them all. So all I can really say is...have another glass on me :koolaid:.

Nope. There are no exaggerations. The long list can be picked at... however, I'm only arguing that those players have a combination of youth, talent, and experience that make it likely they will contribute to a quality team moving forward and the majority can be expected to improve.

thunderkyss
03-14-2013, 10:41 AM
That is true & how long did it take Pete Carroll to accomplish what took the kubiak & Smith combo to do since 2007?? Kinda sad if you think about it w/ that comparison.

If I were to change the GM & HC of the Bills & the Packers, which team do you think would be more successful sooner?

The Seahawks were a play-off team from 2003-2007, that's 5 years of winning. They were in the Super Bowl in 2005. We busted on David Carr in 2005, busted on our GM Caserly, & busted on our HC. You can't compare what Pete Caroll & Schneider has done since 2010 with what Kubiak & Smith has done since 2007.

Caroll & Schneider were brought in to bring the Seahawks back to a winning tradition, they didn't have to rebuild the organization from top to bottom.

What did Holmgren do in Cleveland? That's comparable.


I agree with you to some extent, that the Texans have swung & missed on a lot of opportunities. But this "baby steps" rant you've got going is misplaced. If the Oilers had never left, if Rick & Gary took over that organization, then you'd be on point. But this is totally new.

Is 10 years too long to build a successful organization in one of the most competitive professional leagues in the world? Maybe. Would it have taken 10 years had we started with Kubiak & Smith? Probably not & I say that because we've seen what they've done in the last 7, if they didn't have all that baggage left by Casserly & Capers, it's within reason to believe we'd have been successful sooner.

Right now, the only thing I'm concerned about, is if the success we've seen is sustainable (is it real) & if we have the right people in place to take it further.

I'm celebrating "baby steps" yeah... but it is what it is. I'll be happy if we get to the play offs again & lose in the divisional round. I want a Super Bowl, but a third play-off season would help me believe this is one of the better teams in the league, which is a long way from where this team was in 2007.

& yes, if we don't make the play offs in 2013, Gary or Rick should be fired. Maybe both, depending on who replaces Gary (if it's Gary that leaves).

steelbtexan
03-14-2013, 11:35 AM
Look, I said that Rick Smith hasn't been all world, but watch what happens to that Seahawk team the next few years. They're gonna lose some of their good guys just like everyone else. But I'm going to let you guys continue to debate this. I stand in the "he's ok crowd".

I expect better than OK.

Maybe that's just the way I roll with most things in life. I understand that OK is good enough for most of the Texans loyal fanbase. They've had over a decade to be conditioned to think this way by the Texans org.

Give me a duo like Carroll/Schnieder over Gary/Rick any day of the week and twice on Sundays. TThey are making moves to try to win a SB. Gary/Rick continue to sit on their hands. I think this edict comes from BoB. Rick/Gary are trying to do all they can within the perameters BoB has allowed them to work within.

Those parmeters will never lead to a SB though. IMHO

dalemurphy
03-14-2013, 11:45 AM
I expect better than OK.

Maybe that's just the way I roll with most things in life. I understand that OK is good enough for most of the Texans loyal fanbase. They've had over a decade to be conditioned to think this way by the Texans org.

Give me a duo like Carroll/Schnieder over Gary/Rick any day of the week and twice on Sundays. TThey are making moves to try to win a SB. Gary/Rick continue to sit on their hands. I think this edict comes from BoB. Rick/Gary are trying to do all they can within the perameters BoB has allowed them to work within.

Those parmeters will never lead to a SB though. IMHO

Hard to argue with what they are doing in Seattle.

That being said, I think we will enter August of 2013 season and August of 2014 season as one of the two or three most talented teams in the AFC. So, I think we have a good shot at a Superbowl, despite my hangover from the New England debacles and the reality that Kubiak/Wade were totally outclassed by New England coaching staff.

ObsiWan
03-14-2013, 12:15 PM
I said before that in hind sight I can look back at a few of his drafts and say that he's made several solid picks, but mainly in the first round. The only thing is that how much of that do I credit to Kubiak or Wade as well?


That's the thing everyone seems to be ignoring - or at least failing to acknowledge. Rick Smith doesn't make moves in a vacuum. Uncle Bob doesn't want it that way. Any move this team makes, and pretty much has been since Charlie left, is a collaboration.
- The coordinators cook up their respective schemes.
- The head coach oversees/approves what they come up with; much more so on offense than defense (thank God!).
- Then the respective coordinators and their support staffs let the scouts know what attributes the respective schemes will demand.
- The scouts go out and locate those guys then run the prospects they find by the coordinators/coaches.
- They check the reports, watch college film, then come up with a shopping list for Rick Smith to target in free agency or the draft. Mainly the draft.

I'd bet good money that Rick Smith hasn't picked a single player that hasn't been vetted by "the committee". And I know if I were the head coach or one of the coordinators, I wouldn't want him to.

Why would any coach/coordinator want a guy who doesn't call the plays or come up with the weekly game plan selecting players to execute said game plan/plays without his input?? Like Parcells said, "if I have to cook the meal, I ought to get to shop for the groceries."

All that to say Rick Smith may go get the groceries but he damn sure doesn't make the grocery list on his own. His job is to get as many of the guys the coaches tell him to get as he can and get them under contract at a price we can afford in today's constricted salary cap NFL.

The secondary (a very close second) is to keep the core players long term and retain/replace role players as necessary. When another team sees that one of your role players can be a core player for them - and wants to pay them like a core player - you have no choice but to let them walk. I'm not in favor of scrambling to keep Casey or Quin or Barwin if it means I don't have cap room to keep Cushing next year or Watt the year after that.
just my :twocents:

Dutchrudder
03-14-2013, 09:53 PM
Rick Smith looked really smart when Baewin took 6m a year from the Eagles! Good thing he didn't accept our offer and let us overpay him!!!! Great job Rock!!!!

badboy
03-14-2013, 10:17 PM
I predicted long ago that Barwin would leave. I was a bit nervous when he was offered a Texans contract. I like him, Casey and Walter and hope they enjoy their money. Looking forward to their replacements.

Mr teX
03-15-2013, 11:02 AM
Watch more basketball, Morey is a lock for GM of the year this season.

What does watching more basketball have to do with him winning GM of the year? What's more is what does it have to do with his abilities at acquiring enough talent for us to win a playoff series? All he's done is flip rosters every year...& so far that has led to us to picking 14th in the lottery for 3-4 straight seasons. His moves just now are about to put us back in the playoffs...what do we have to wait 3-4 more years before we win another playoff series and become a true contender?

His resume thus far has yielded mediocore to below mediocore results in the grand scheme of things.

rolyat93
03-15-2013, 11:57 AM
What does watching more basketball have to do with him winning GM of the year? What's more is what does it have to do with his abilities at acquiring enough talent for us to win a playoff series? All he's done is flip rosters every year...& so far that has led to us to picking 14th in the lottery for 3-4 straight seasons. His moves just now are about to put us back in the playoffs...what do we have to wait 3-4 more years before we win another playoff series and become a true contender?

His resume thus far has yielded mediocore to below mediocore results in the grand scheme of things.
Watch more basketball and you'd know what he's done to the roster.

Flipped broken down Yao/Tracy on a team in cap hell into a 23 year old superstar that's locked up for 5 more years along with young high upside players on good contracts with cap room to go after another big name guy.


Obviously they're just now starting to pay off, but show me one team that's not a NY/LA market that's rebuilt itself like this team has in just 3-4 years. Better yet, show me one that's done what Morey has without tanking.

eriadoc
03-15-2013, 12:16 PM
If I were to change the GM & HC of the Bills & the Packers, which team do you think would be more successful sooner?

The Seahawks were a play-off team from 2003-2007, that's 5 years of winning. They were in the Super Bowl in 2005. We busted on David Carr in 2005, busted on our GM Caserly, & busted on our HC. You can't compare what Pete Caroll & Schneider has done since 2010 with what Kubiak & Smith has done since 2007.

Caroll & Schneider were brought in to bring the Seahawks back to a winning tradition, they didn't have to rebuild the organization from top to bottom.

What did Holmgren do in Cleveland? That's comparable.


In 2005, the Texans battled it out with the SF 49ers for the #1 overall pick in the last (second to last?) game of the year. The 49ers won that game and dropped all the way to #6. Still, they were just about as terrible as the Texans at that time. They went through a terrible coaching phase with Singletary since then as well.

In fact, the top six teams in the draft in 2006 (i.e., the worst teams of 2005) were the Texans, Saints, Titans, Jets, Packers, and 49ers. Four of those teams have been to championship games since then. Three of them have been to Super Bowls.

Just some counter perspective.

C Madd
03-15-2013, 12:17 PM
Rick Smith looked really smart when Baewin took 6m a year from the Eagles! Good thing he didn't accept our offer and let us overpay him!!!! Great job Rock!!!!

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2814819080/3a78f924df5e56597d596b8746d19497.png

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 12:20 PM
If I were to change the GM & HC of the Bills & the Packers, which team do you think would be more successful sooner?

The Seahawks were a play-off team from 2003-2007, that's 5 years of winning. They were in the Super Bowl in 2005. We busted on David Carr in 2005, busted on our GM Caserly, & busted on our HC. You can't compare what Pete Caroll & Schneider has done since 2010 with what Kubiak & Smith has done since 2007.

Caroll & Schneider were brought in to bring the Seahawks back to a winning tradition, they didn't have to rebuild the organization from top to bottom.

What did Holmgren do in Cleveland? That's comparable.


I agree with you to some extent, that the Texans have swung & missed on a lot of opportunities. But this "baby steps" rant you've got going is misplaced. If the Oilers had never left, if Rick & Gary took over that organization, then you'd be on point. But this is totally new.

Is 10 years too long to build a successful organization in one of the most competitive professional leagues in the world? Maybe. Would it have taken 10 years had we started with Kubiak & Smith? Probably not & I say that because we've seen what they've done in the last 7, if they didn't have all that baggage left by Casserly & Capers, it's within reason to believe we'd have been successful sooner.

Right now, the only thing I'm concerned about, is if the success we've seen is sustainable (is it real) & if we have the right people in place to take it further.

I'm celebrating "baby steps" yeah... but it is what it is. I'll be happy if we get to the play offs again & lose in the divisional round. I want a Super Bowl, but a third play-off season would help me believe this is one of the better teams in the league, which is a long way from where this team was in 2007.

& yes, if we don't make the play offs in 2013, Gary or Rick should be fired. Maybe both, depending on who replaces Gary (if it's Gary that leaves).

Come on didnt the seahawks get into the play-offs with a 7-9 record 2 seasons ago ??? Would not say that is cause the organization did such a great job haha.

sandman
03-15-2013, 12:22 PM
Watch more basketball and you'd know what he's done to the roster.

Flipped broken down Yao/Tracy on a team in cap hell into a 23 year old superstar that's locked up for 5 more years along with young high upside players on good contracts with cap room to go after another big name guy.


Obviously they're just now starting to pay off, but show me one team that's not a NY/LA market that's rebuilt itself like this team has in just 3-4 years. Better yet, show me one that's done what Morey has without tanking.

Um, you do know that this team is barely over .500 and not considered a contender right? They missed the playoffs for the last three years with barely .500 records, so while they didn't tank, he made them *just good enough to get screwed out of decent draft picks to accelerate the rebuilding process. That may actually be a worse decision than tanking.

The potential is there for future seasons with a few more key additions, but this team as built right now is not a championship caliber team. They have improved from a mediocre team not making the playoffs to a decent team barely making the playoffs.

Funny how that is considered success for the Rockets, but failure for the Texans.

rolyat93
03-15-2013, 01:10 PM
Um, you do know that this team is barely over .500 and not considered a contender right? They missed the playoffs for the last three years with barely .500 records, so while they didn't tank, he made them *just good enough to get screwed out of decent draft picks to accelerate the rebuilding process. That may actually be a worse decision than tanking.

The potential is there for future seasons with a few more key additions, but this team as built right now is not a championship caliber team. They have improved from a mediocre team not making the playoffs to a decent team barely making the playoffs.

Funny how that is considered success for the Rockets, but failure for the Texans.
Who needs high draft picks when you already have your superstar? We are one of the youngest teams in the league(2nd youngest to be exact) and we are in good footing to land a playoffs spot. Plenty of guys with high ceilings who've yet to reach them, plenty of cap space, no malcontents that's as good as you can ask for.


Honestly, you're over-simplifying if you only look at team records. This team is vastly different than last years even though record-wise they're similar.

TexansCountry
03-15-2013, 01:19 PM
Well see how smart rick is when its time to pay Cushing and give megaswatt that ridiculous but well deserved contract

thunderkyss
03-15-2013, 01:26 PM
In 2005, the Texans battled it out with the SF 49ers for the #1 overall pick in the last (second to last?) game of the year. The 49ers won that game and dropped all the way to #6. Still, they were just about as terrible as the Texans at that time. They went through a terrible coaching phase with Singletary since then as well.

In fact, the top six teams in the draft in 2006 (i.e., the worst teams of 2005) were the Texans, Saints, Titans, Jets, Packers, and 49ers. Four of those teams have been to championship games since then. Three of them have been to Super Bowls.

Just some counter perspective.

For some perspective,
If the Bills & the Packers were to change the GM & HC, which team do you think would be more successful sooner?

The 49ers I think is a good comparison (not as good as the Browns) since they've had about as much success as the Texans since 2002 (blowing us out of the water in 2011 & 2012). They had 8 losing seasons before making it to the play offs. & while they had great play from the QB position, they also had great play from most of their star players as well.

Come on didnt the seahawks get into the play-offs with a 7-9 record 2 seasons ago ??? Would not say that is cause the organization did such a great job haha.

& that was just a blip in the radar for them at that time. If we go 7-9 next year, 2011 & 2012 are the anomaly, not the losing seasons. I know we want to think our team is as good as the Packers, Patriots, Steelers, & Colts, but we're not. Our team may have been as talented as any of them in 2011 & 2012, but what were seeing right now (in March) has just as much to do with how this team will do between September & January.

Those other teams have been around for a long time. Their plan B is usually better than our plan A. They know what works, what doesn't work & do not "panic" as much as other teams have.

Yes, in 2011 & 2012, we had a team that was talented enough to win it all, but they didn't, for whatever reason. Now it's about what they'll do in 2013 & the jury is still out.

EllisUnit
03-15-2013, 01:30 PM
For some perspective,


The 49ers I think is a good comparison (not as good as the Browns) since they've had about as much success as the Texans since 2002 (blowing us out of the water in 2011 & 2012). They had 8 losing seasons before making it to the play offs. & while they had great play from the QB position, they also had great play from most of their star players as well.



& that was just a blip in the radar for them at that time. If we go 7-9 next year, 2011 & 2012 are the anomaly, not the losing seasons. I know we want to think our team is as good as the Packers, Patriots, Steelers, & Colts, but we're not. Our team may have been as talented as any of them in 2011 & 2012, but what were seeing right now (in March) has just as much to do with how this team will do between September & January.

Those other teams have been around for a long time. Their plan B is usually better than our plan A. They know what works, what doesn't work & do not "panic" as much as other teams have.

Yes, in 2011 & 2012, we had a team that was talented enough to win it all, but they didn't, for whatever reason. Now it's about what they'll do in 2013 & the jury is still out.

My point is if you go 7-9 and make the play-offs that means you had a really really weak conf/division. It was not because of the great team the seahawks put together.

Mr teX
03-15-2013, 01:46 PM
Watch more basketball and you'd know what he's done to the roster.

Flipped broken down Yao/Tracy on a team in cap hell into a 23 year old superstar that's locked up for 5 more years along with young high upside players on good contracts with cap room to go after another big name guy.


Obviously they're just now starting to pay off, but show me one team that's not a NY/LA market that's rebuilt itself like this team has in just 3-4 years. Better yet, show me one that's done what Morey has without tanking.

Lol with all the qualifiers...building a team that can make the playoffs in 3-4 years is not hard to do guy....especially in the NBA. it's getting to that next level that's hard. Indiana put their core together and made the playoffs in about 3 years and made it to the 2nd round easily...Golden State's core took about 3 years as well. All these teams really lacked was a HC.

Still don't see what watching more basketball has to do with anything you're asserting about how great Morey is. yeah we're 1 of the youngest teams in the NBA, so what. With the way Morey flips rosters we'll never see any of this young talent stay here and develop either. Harden is the only guy guaranteed to be here in the next 3 years. Everyone else may very well be gone in 1 of Morey's not-so blockbuster deals.

We're over-simplifying it b/c at the end of the day, that's all that matters...It's the same standard that people here use when talking about Smith. & thus far Morey's end results haven't yielded much of anything to say that he's so much better than Smith.

76Texan
03-15-2013, 01:50 PM
Well see how smart rick is when its time to pay Cushing and give megaswatt that ridiculous but well deserved contract

Everybody will look stupid when they have to sign marquis players.

You just have got to do what you have to do.
Looking at the Texans contracts over the last few years, they are pretty reasonable, I wouldn't worry too much about it... At least for now, LOL!

Dutchrudder
03-15-2013, 02:15 PM
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2814819080/3a78f924df5e56597d596b8746d19497.png

Haha, drunk posting on a phone often leads to grammatical mistakes... :)

I do think it's hilarious that we have a few "Trust in Rick Smith" threads, and then we find out Rick offered Barwin what the Eagles just overpaid. Just wait, in a year or so when Barwin doesn't live up to his contract, Rick Smith will be hailed for not overpaying him to stay, even though he tried to after one good year.

TexanBacker93
03-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Haha, drunk posting on a phone often leads to grammatical mistakes... :)

I do think it's hilarious that we have a few "Trust in Rick Smith" threads, and then we find out Rick offered Barwin what the Eagles just overpaid. Just wait, in a year or so when Barwin doesn't live up to his contract, Rick Smith will be hailed for not overpaying him to stay, even though he tried to after one good year.

Didn't we offer that during preseason, though? At least our offer was coming off of a very good season.

dc_txtech
03-15-2013, 10:42 PM
Didn't we offer that during preseason, though? At least our offer was coming off of a very good season.

That's a good point, if Barwin had entered free agency last year coming off a great season, he would have been paid much more than he made this off-season.

tru80texan
03-16-2013, 08:18 AM
Didn't we offer that during preseason, though? At least our offer was coming off of a very good season.

So by Barwin choosing not to sign the contract Smith offered...somehow how that was a smart move on Smith's behalf? I think Smith lucked out on that one courtesy of Barwin's self confidence or else Smith would easily be taking more heat on top of his resigning of Schaub imo. It seems despite Barwin's down season Smith chose to still pursue him until the end as he allowed Quin to walk w/out offering an official offer & Quin supposedly being the #1 priority this offseason. Needless to say Smith does keep us guessing.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 09:18 AM
So by Barwin choosing not to sign the contract Smith offered...somehow how that was a smart move on Smith's behalf? I think Smith lucked out on that one courtesy of Barwin's self confidence or else Smith would easily be taking more heat on top of his resigning of Schaub imo. It seems despite Barwin's down season Smith chose to still pursue him until the end as he allowed Quin to walk w/out offering an official offer & Quin supposedly being the #1 priority this offseason. Needless to say Smith does keep us guessing.

When it comes to how Rick operates I'm not doing alot of guessing. If signing 2 top tier FA's every 5 yrs put a team in cap hell, then how do teams like the Pats/Eagles etc.... continue to operate? I think our GM is in over his head a little.

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2013, 01:07 PM
Matt Schaub
Arian Foster
Andre Johnson
Owen Daniels
Chris Myers
Duane Brown
Eric Winston
Antonio Smith
Demeco Ryans
Johnathan Joseph
Danieal Manning

These are all guys that received notable contracts from us by Free Agency, Trade and/or Extension(s) from their rookie draft deals with the Texans. Lets not pretend we're in cap hell. We've got a ton of great talent and they all can't be paid. Period. That's why Winston was cut and Demeco was traded. We've got Cushing and Watt coming up. We recently took care of some core players last year. While I really wish we could have retained Glover Quin, we didn't. It's not the end of the world. We're going to be losing a good player or two every year. That's the nature of being a good team.

I wish people would stop saying we're in cap hell. Just about half of our starters are legitimate pro bowlers. Call it a problem if you want but it's a good problem to have. It means we've drafted well and the players have produced on the field to warrant significant money. We just have to continue drafting well to stay good. Getting guys to produce during their rookie contract is the name of the game in managing the NFL Salary Cap.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 02:02 PM
Smith, as GM, can only acquire the pieces. He has done that. Does anyone disagree that he has assembled a very talented and young team? It is a team that has won the division and a playoff game each of the past two seasons without any beneficial anomalies like abnormally good team health or inordinate amount of close wins. This is a team where the bulk of the talent is on the front side of its career. Given Smith's success in the draft the past 4 years and the team's ability to acquire extra compensatory picks the next few seasons, the expiring veteran contracts and cap-friendly contracts, I don't expect the talent level or production to drop... do you? why?

You aren't listening to anything here.

I as well as others have agreed that he has drafted pretty well when you look back on the last 5 years. It is no secret, nor can it be denied that those picks are just as much to be credited to Kubiak and more importantly Wade over the last two years on the defense. Please don't tell me that it was Rick Smith's genius that built this defense instead of Wade Phillips, because before Wade Phillips got here Rick Smith didn't have a clue who to hire for defense, nor did he have a clue on what guys to bring in to this defense. Wade came in and cleaned up Rick's mess. How you can completely ignore this and push it to the side is ridiculous.

And as far as his off season moves outside of the draft, the more you talk and bring up his history you are making the opposite case for Smith. You are proving that he hasn't done hardly anything as far as trades and free agency goes, because you keep bringing up one off season out of like seven.

thunderkyss
03-16-2013, 04:47 PM
Wade came in and cleaned up Rick's mess. How you can completely ignore this and push it to the side is ridiculous.


A little nit-picky here, I don't know that Wade cleaned up his mess, but he made a hell of a stew with the ingredients Smithiak bought. I think the worst tomato of the bunch, we can all agree was probably Kj & he turned out just fine.

Smithiak was already improving the talent on our defense; Mario, Demeco, Cushing, Barwin, Quin, McCain, Sharpton, Cody, Antonio, Jamison,

Maybe they didn't have the gnads to get rid of Okoye had Wade not come along. Maybe they'd have paid Mario $100M had Wade not come along. But Cushing & Demeco were as dynamic a player as Watt their first two years & had that same kind of impact.

steelbtexan
03-16-2013, 04:53 PM
Matt Schaub
Arian Foster
Andre Johnson
Owen Daniels
Chris Myers
Duane Brown
Eric Winston
Antonio Smith
Demeco Ryans
Johnathan Joseph
Danieal Manning

These are all guys that received notable contracts from us by Free Agency, Trade and/or Extension(s) from their rookie draft deals with the Texans. Lets not pretend we're in cap hell. We've got a ton of great talent and they all can't be paid. Period. That's why Winston was cut and Demeco was traded. We've got Cushing and Watt coming up. We recently took care of some core players last year. While I really wish we could have retained Glover Quin, we didn't. It's not the end of the world. We're going to be losing a good player or two every year. That's the nature of being a good team.

I wish people would stop saying we're in cap hell. Just about half of our starters are legitimate pro bowlers. Call it a problem if you want but it's a good problem to have. It means we've drafted well and the players have produced on the field to warrant significant money. We just have to continue drafting well to stay good. Getting guys to produce during their rookie contract is the name of the game in managing the NFL Salary Cap.

Yep

This seems to be the trend that the Pats/Broncos/49ers/Seahawks/Colts/Falcons etc... seem to be following. (Sarcasm////)

Uncle Rico
03-16-2013, 04:58 PM
"Smithiak" also didnt have a clue as to who to run that defense other than close friends and cheap 'yes men'.

Wasnt until Bobby Mac grew a pair and decided to step in and hire a competent coordinator in Philips that these picks blossomed. Smith would have shown something if it was his guy running the defense and producing, but its not.

Jules Winnfield
03-16-2013, 07:54 PM
every dale murphy post looks dumber every day.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 09:38 PM
A little nit-picky here, I don't know that Wade cleaned up his mess, but he made a hell of a stew with the ingredients Smithiak bought. I think the worst tomato of the bunch, we can all agree was probably Kj & he turned out just fine.

Smithiak was already improving the talent on our defense; Mario, Demeco, Cushing, Barwin, Quin, McCain, Sharpton, Cody, Antonio, Jamison,

Maybe they didn't have the gnads to get rid of Okoye had Wade not come along. Maybe they'd have paid Mario $100M had Wade not come along. But Cushing & Demeco were as dynamic a player as Watt their first two years & had that same kind of impact.

It really isn't disputable that Wade had to come in and clean up Rick's mess, because that's what is was. Did you forget that the Texans defense were in the running for being the worst defense of all time from a scoring average against them? They were atrocious the season before Wade came in. Smithiak had trusted their buddies to run the defense before Wade, and both were a disaster. What Wade was able to accomplish in one off season from a turn around time standpoint is amazing and I think a lot of people forget that. Our defense may not be perfect as of now, but it's a pretty damn good one and it got pretty good much faster than any of us expected. Wade did a great job, but their is no question that it was mess that needed to be cleaned up when they were the worst defense in the entire league.

GP
03-16-2013, 10:01 PM
every dale murphy post looks dumber every day.

Signed,

The Guy Who Thinks Re-Structures Are Unconstitutional

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 10:01 PM
Did you forget that the Texans defense were in the running for being the worst defense of all time from a scoring average against them?

Yes they sucked but they weren't even the worst scoring defense that season. The Cardinals, Cowboys and Broncos all beat them out in that regard. The season before there were also three teams with worse scoring averages than the 2010 Texans. This internet myth needs to die.

Yes Wade's turnaround has been fantastic.

Texecutioner
03-16-2013, 10:05 PM
Yes they sucked but they weren't even the worst scoring defense that season. The Cardinals, Cowboys and Broncos all beat them out in that regard. The season before there were also three teams with worse scoring averages than the 2010 Texans. This internet myth needs to die.

Yes Wade's turnaround has been fantastic.

Well I remember in here that it kept getting talked about almost all season long how they were staying in some pace to be the worst defense ever. I didn't remember the exact numbers it was, but it was a talking point for a while. But I think we agree that it can't really be argued that Wade wasn't brought in to clean up a mess.

infantrycak
03-16-2013, 10:22 PM
Well I remember in here that it kept getting talked about almost all season long how they were staying in some pace to be the worst defense ever. I didn't remember the exact numbers it was, but it was a talking point for a while. But I think we agree that it can't really be argued that Wade wasn't brought in to clean up a mess.

I agreed the D sucked and Wade pulled off a miraculous turnaround. I think that quote came from McClain (pretty sure I was listening when he said it) and then it became internet truth.

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 02:13 PM
Um, you do know that this team is barely over .500 and not considered a contender right? They missed the playoffs for the last three years with barely .500 records, so while they didn't tank, he made them *just good enough to get screwed out of decent draft picks to accelerate the rebuilding process. That may actually be a worse decision than tanking.


No it isn't because he did it by drafting well and then cashing in those players for more draft picks before they got expensive. This accumulation of good but cheap players gets you the youngest team in the league with the second most cap room and a gold vault full of assets to make a move for a top ten player in James Harden.


The potential is there for future seasons with a few more key additions, but this team as built right now is not a championship caliber team. They have improved from a mediocre team not making the playoffs to a decent team barely making the playoffs.

The potential is readily apparent with zero additions. The starting lineup has 4/5 guys starting for the basically the first time in their career. Parsons is locked into a 4 year sub-million dollar contract and can put up 25+ on any given night and this is only his second season in the NBA. Plus they have max+ cap room to add any free agent they want this off season.


Funny how that is considered success for the Rockets, but failure for the Texans.
Since 2002:


Number of above .500 seasons
Rockets = 9 (plus this year)
Texans = 3

Number of playoff appearances
Rockets = 5 (plus this year)
Texans = 2

The arrow is point:
Rockets = up
Texans = down

Nawzer
03-17-2013, 02:30 PM
No it isn't because he did it by drafting well and then cashing in those players for more draft picks before they got expensive. This accumulation of good but cheap players gets you the youngest team in the league with the second most cap room and a gold vault full of assets to make a move for a top ten player in James Harden.


The potential is readily apparent with zero additions. The starting lineup has 4/5 guys starting for the basically the first time in their career. Parsons is locked into a 4 year sub-million dollar contract and can put up 25+ on any given night and this is only his second season in the NBA. Plus they have max+ cap room to add any free agent they want this off season.


Since 2002:


Number of above .500 seasons
Rockets = 9
Texans = 3

Number of playoff appearances
Rockets = 5 (plus this year)
Texans = 2

The arrow is point:
Rockets = up
Texans = down

Boom! Down comes the hammer. Rep coming your way.

JamesBill
03-17-2013, 02:32 PM
Lol with all the qualifiers...building a team that can make the playoffs in 3-4 years is not hard to do guy....especially in the NBA. it's getting to that next level that's hard. Indiana put their core together and made the playoffs in about 3 years and made it to the 2nd round easily...Golden State's core took about 3 years as well. All these teams really lacked was a HC.

Pacers and Warriors had 4 sub .500 seasons in a row, not 3. The Rockets are 3-0 against the Warriors this season BTW. Harden is a better player than anyone on those rosters and in the NBA, superstars win championships.


yeah we're 1 of the youngest teams in the NBA, so what. With the way Morey flips rosters we'll never see any of this young talent stay here and develop either. Harden is the only guy guaranteed to be here in the next 3 years. Everyone else may very well be gone in 1 of Morey's not-so blockbuster deals.


THE youngest team. He flips rosters to cash in on guys before they become expensive, and uses those picks and cap space to acquire superstars. Now that he has a young team, draft picks in the bank, tons of cap space, and a 23 year old superstar locked up for 6 years, his strategery will shift slightly. The recent patrick patterson trade got us a 5th overall pick rookie, future cap space, for a soon to be free agent player we had no intention to resign. So those types of moves will continue.


We're over-simplifying it b/c at the end of the day, that's all that matters...It's the same standard that people here use when talking about Smith. & thus far Morey's end results haven't yielded much of anything to say that he's so much better than Smith.
Morey had to shift from building a team around Yao, to starting over in 2011. People think he has been rebuilding for 5 years or something. Kevin Martin was brought here specifically to play with Yao, and he was here until the Harden trade. The owner said no tanking, and in 2 years he has done miracles. Smith had since 2007 to implement his vision, and he got to the playoffs once before the team started losing free agents.

Uncle Rico
03-17-2013, 03:02 PM
Some people dont see the awesomeness that is Dork Elvis.

They really think Rick Smith is a good GM.

Jules Winnfield
03-17-2013, 04:52 PM
Signed,

The Guy Who Thinks Re-Structures Are Unconstitutional

:vincepalm:

You didnt actually believe that did you?

Some people dont see the awesomeness that is Dork Elvis.

They really think Rick Smith is a good GM.


A sabermetric/analytic approach is the best approach in football even more so than in the nba.

It would be a disservice and competitive disadvantage if the texans didnt have a sabermetric/analytic centered philosophy and GM.

ChampionTexan
03-17-2013, 05:07 PM
:vincepalm:

You didnt actually believe that did you?



Why shouldn't he have believed it? It showed no more ignorance than the rest of that post.

thunderkyss
03-17-2013, 05:49 PM
Well I remember in here that it kept getting talked about almost all season long how they were staying in some pace to be the worst defense ever. I didn't remember the exact numbers it was, but it was a talking point for a while.


I think it was worst pass defense ever.


But I think we agree that it can't really be argued that Wade wasn't brought in to clean up a mess.

I think he did a good job putting the guys in positions to do what they do. I wouldn't say he cleaned up Rick Smith's mess, because then you're talking from a personnel perspective.

Many of those first & second round draft picks were here way before Wade. The value picks, Quin & McCain.... before Wade. Wade fixed Gary's mess, Rick has done a fairly decent (I'd say pretty good, but I don't like the guy) job getting players for our defense.

Jj Watt & Brooks Reed are similar to other guys Smithiak drafted before Wade.... Cushing, Demeco, Connor, Quin, McCain; they all fit the same mold.

Jjo & Manning are like their other FA signings; Antonio, Wade Smith, Pollard, Myers (trade).... all were fairly young (for FAs) that may have been undervalued.

The coaching improved by leaps & bounds, but the quality of players has been on par.

infantrycak
03-17-2013, 06:02 PM
I think it was worst pass defense ever.

Nope, for instance the 2005 Niners gave up 11 more yards per game passing. The Texans were the worst that year.

the wonger need food
03-17-2013, 07:01 PM
Every time I read the title to this thread I can't help but think 2 playoff wins in 7 years. He can't be that smart....

Rey
03-17-2013, 10:07 PM
Every time I read the title to this thread I can't help but think 2 playoff wins in 7 years. He can't be that smart....

There's definitely a lack of smarts somewhere down at reliant. Or maybe a lot of bad luck.

tru80texan
03-17-2013, 11:57 PM
I think it was worst pass defense ever.




I think he did a good job putting the guys in positions to do what they do. I wouldn't say he cleaned up Rick Smith's mess, because then you're talking from a personnel perspective.

Many of those first & second round draft picks were here way before Wade. The value picks, Quin & McCain.... before Wade. Wade fixed Gary's mess, Rick has done a fairly decent (I'd say pretty good, but I don't like the guy) job getting players for our defense.

Jj Watt & Brooks Reed are similar to other guys Smithiak drafted before Wade.... Cushing, Demeco, Connor, Quin, McCain; they all fit the same mold.

Jjo & Manning are like their other FA signings; Antonio, Wade Smith, Pollard, Myers (trade).... all were fairly young (for FAs) that may have been undervalued.

The coaching improved by leaps & bounds, but the quality of players has been on par.

Smith did not draft DeMeco. That would be Casserly w/ Dan Reeves as the special consultant brought in by McNair specifically for that draft who got Ryans.

Cushing was sort of a no brainer considering many predicted it would be Cushing or Clay Mathews, but I guess considering Smith didn't screw it up we should at least give credit where credit is due.

McCain had 1 decent season as did Barwin so we honestly don't know if they will pan out or not. I think allowing them to walk does indicate their worth & value to the Texans & one decent season from each doesn't indicate that either player was a successful pick by Smith. I think both McCain & Barwin have potential, Barwin more so then McCain IMO, but the Texans didn't get too much from them & it remains to be seen if they actually become consistently good players. Hasnt quite earned the notch on Smith's belt IMO.

Quin was a very good pick, IMO, & Smith allowed him to walk. So a once good move could easily turn into a negative IMO.

infantrycak
03-18-2013, 12:05 AM
Smith did not draft DeMeco. That would be Casserly w/ Dan Reeves as the special consultant brought in by McNair specifically for that draft who got Ryans.

Oh goody, let's revise history again. You hate Kubiak so much you want to give credit to Casserly for DeMeco. It's laughable. Casserly was on his way out and Kubiak clearly was calling the shots. After the draft Kubiak said he was really glad he let Casserly talk him into picking OD.

Dan Reeves was not brought in for the draft either. He was hired prior to Capers even being fired - heck the season wasn't over. Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2256872) His consultant role went to HC and QB.

McNair said Reeves would likely be with the team for ``a couple of months,''

Last time I checked, a couple months from mid-December didn't get you to the draft.

tru80texan
03-18-2013, 12:23 AM
Oh goody, let's revise history again. You hate Kubiak so much you want to give credit to Casserly for DeMeco. It's laughable. Casserly was on his way out and Kubiak clearly was calling the shots. After the draft Kubiak said he was really glad he let Casserly talk him into picking OD.

Dan Reeves was not brought in for the draft either. He was hired prior to Capers even being fired - heck the season wasn't over. Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2256872) His consultant role went to HC and QB.

Lol! Are you serious? Reeves stayed until the draft was over. That's not revising, that's fact. Reeves assisted along the way in different aspects as it was, as you already stated, Casserly & Capers fair well & Kubiak's welcome. In the end, Casserly was the GM, Kubiak was the HC & Reeves was the special consultant hired by McNair heading into the draft. Rick Smith was not in the picture when DeMeco was drafted as it was stated by TK. Oh goody, now we are all clear again & one thing is for sure...Smith had no hand in DeMeco.

I never said Kubiak didn't have a part in the 2006 draft, so that comment & false assumption by you was completely off base & irrelevant. You are correct, I don't care for the job kubiak has done thus far, but that's for another thread. :fingergun:

tru80texan
03-18-2013, 12:34 AM
Oh goody, let's revise history again. You hate Kubiak so much you want to give credit to Casserly for DeMeco. It's laughable. Casserly was on his way out and Kubiak clearly was calling the shots. After the draft Kubiak said he was really glad he let Casserly talk him into picking OD.

Dan Reeves was not brought in for the draft either. He was hired prior to Capers even being fired - heck the season wasn't over. Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2256872) His consultant role went to HC and QB.



Last time I checked, a couple months from mid-December didn't get you to the draft.

McNair said Reeves would likely be with the team for ``a couple of months,'' but that he could remain with the Texans longer.

Since you decided to omit the last portion in your post, I went ahead & added it back in. I remember Reeves sticking around until the draft because many speculated Casserly wouldnt or couldnt be much help to Kubiak since he knew he would be let go. Either way, had nothing to do w/ Smith & that's what I disputed.

infantrycak
03-18-2013, 12:55 AM
I remember Reeves sticking around until the draft because many speculated Casserly wouldnt or couldnt be much help to Kubiak since he knew he would be let go. Either way, had nothing to do w/ Smith & that's what I disputed.

Yeah buddy, let's trust your memory rather than a link. Or maybe he was so involved:

"I don't know if they ever asked my advice, but I looked at (Young) and told them that he was a guy they would have to consider even with David Carr there."

Link (http://www.aolnews.com/2007/01/14/texans-consultant-dan-reeves-wanted-to-draft-vince-young/)

He was so involved he can't even remember if they ever asked him about the top pick in the draft.

As to "either way" your assertion regardless of what you were disputing was wrong. The 2006 draft was Kubiak's. I guess if it makes you happy you can say you were both wrong.

Vinny
03-18-2013, 12:58 AM
McNair said Reeves would likely be with the team for ``a couple of months,'' but that he could remain with the Texans longer.

Since you decided to omit the last portion in your post, I went ahead & added it back in. I remember Reeves sticking around until the draft because many speculated Casserly wouldnt or couldnt be much help to Kubiak since he knew he would be let go. Either way, had nothing to do w/ Smith & that's what I disputed.
Your timeline is wrong. Reeves and Casserly had nothing to do with Ryans. I know that Kubiak said that Casserly pounded the proverbial table for Owen Daniels for the first pick of the second day of the draft (before they changed the format of course). He gets credit for that one for sure. Dan Reeves wanted Vince Young (not that this has anything to do with Ryans...but just relaying that he was way out there in relation to what the other Texans brain-trust were thinking) and said so himself on his Radio show. I have the thread...


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-32579.html

steelbtexan
03-18-2013, 01:08 AM
Gary called the shots on the 2006 draft and did better than any draft in Texans history. IMHO

Rick had nothing to do with the 2006 draft.

infantrycak
03-18-2013, 01:11 AM
McNair said Reeves would likely be with the team for ``a couple of months,'' but that he could remain with the Texans longer.

Take your large font and stick it up your quote hole. Here was what you said:

Smith did not draft DeMeco. That would be Casserly w/ Dan Reeves as the special consultant brought in by McNair specifically for that draft who got Ryans.

He was not brought in for the draft. "Could be retained longer which might possibly include through the draft" is the exact opposite of "brought in for the draft."

Vinny
03-18-2013, 01:14 AM
Take your large font and stick it up your quote hole. Here was what you said:



He was not brought in for the draft. "Could be retained longer which might possibly include through the draft" is the exact opposite of "brought in for the draft." He was brought in to evaluate David Carr, give McNair some general NFL advice, and we later found out that he recommended that the Texans extend Carr and draft Vince Young (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-32579.html). I don't know how much McNair paid for that, but holy moley that was some bad advice.

infantrycak
03-18-2013, 01:17 AM
He was brought in to evaluate David Carr, give McNair some general NFL advice, and we later found out that he recommended that the Texans extend Carr and draft Vince Young (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-32579.html). I don't know how much McNair paid for that, but holy moley that was some bad advice.

Exactly with the addition I think he also was consulted about HC as well.

tru80texan
03-18-2013, 11:36 AM
Smith did not draft DeMeco..

As to "either way" your assertion regardless of what you were disputing was wrong. The 2006 draft was Kubiak's. I guess if it makes you happy you can say you were both wrong.

Take your large font and stick it up your quote hole.

What part of "Smith did not draft DeMeco" is wrong? Absolutely nothing is the answer since you insist on ignoring the fact that that was what I was disputing from the get go. Granted, I possibly could have overestimated Reeves' involvement in the 2006 draft & I will concede that much, but even by the link you provided it seems that not many are truly sure of how much Reeves was actually involved in. In the end, what I was disputing was not wrong because Smith had nothing to do with DeMeco as the other poster suggested. Hopefully the large font will help you focus on what was actually being disputed & since you seem to appreciate it. Jk! Lol!

tru80texan
03-18-2013, 11:48 AM
He was brought in to evaluate David Carr, give McNair some general NFL advice, and we later found out that he recommended that the Texans extend Carr and draft Vince Young (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-32579.html). I don't know how much McNair paid for that, but holy moley that was some bad advice.

I agree, but in the link that infantry provided it states that it was unknown on which length of extention Reeves may have suggested for Carr. I don't know if we can hold Reeves solely responsible for that one considering a "QB guru" HC was hired & probably had an opinion on what he could do w/ Carr.

Who knows, but that was one of the best drafts overall for the Texans, but one of the worst IMO to have had the #1 overall pick because none of the top 3 picks have become true game changers that is normally expected of players selected that high.

thunderkyss
03-18-2013, 12:56 PM
Nope, for instance the 2005 Niners gave up 11 more yards per game passing. The Texans were the worst that year.

Right.... however, throughout the season "they" were saying "we" were on pace for the worst (maybe they said one of the worst) pass defenses in the league.

Smith did not draft DeMeco.

My fault, freudian slip. I think of them as one person. You put them together & you've got a half decent GM. Still a little short on the HC end, but y'know. It is what it is.

Playoffs
08-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Three -- 3! -- undrafted free agents will make this team's final 53 man roster.

That's ridiculously good. My hat is off to Rick & Co. :tiphat:

Thorn
08-30-2013, 09:57 PM
Three -- 3! -- undrafted free agents will make this team's final 53 man roster.

That's ridiculously good. My hat is off to Rick & Co. :tiphat:

On a team that is solidifying and has a lot of veteran players, that is remarkable.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Three -- 3! -- undrafted free agents will make this team's final 53 man roster.

That's ridiculously good. My hat is off to Rick & Co. :tiphat:

+ 2 6th rounders which is also impressive. I know there maybe a question on what about 2 3rd rounder and 1 4th rounder. We will know more about them come next year. Should two of three players shows up next year, you can say that we really hit the nail on both draft and UDFA. I mean, we are playoff team and upgrading left and right with both draft and UDFA is just unheard of. Rick and his scouting team are doing unbelievable job. I am sure glad we don't have FO like Dallas haha. Forgot to mention about Bonner. He may do well next year as well. May have a chance put himself on #4 or #5 WR spot next year.

dalemurphy
08-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Three -- 3! -- undrafted free agents will make this team's final 53 man roster.

That's ridiculously good. My hat is off to Rick & Co. :tiphat:

It was a slow, frustrating process to get to this point. McNair's unpopular decision after that hideous season in 2010 is being rewarded. Believe me, I know Kubiak's limitations on gameday are frustrating (knowing we had no prayer of beating New England before the game began was infuriating). What we have now, though, is an organization that is all on the same page. Rick Smith knows what kind of player to pursue for Kubiak and for Wade. Kubiak knows he can trust Smith and the personnel department to make good decisions. It is an efficient operation and one that McNair was determined to develop.

We are in the midst of a decade of winning. I can't say that we will win a Superbowl. I think it is likely, but... I am supremely confident that this organization, at worst, will be winning many more than it loses the next 7 or 8 years... We will be watching quality football for the foreseeable future. Good news!

SAMURAITEXAN
08-30-2013, 11:04 PM
It was a slow, frustrating process to get to this point. McNair's unpopular decision after that hideous season in 2010 is being rewarded. Believe me, I know Kubiak's limitations on gameday are frustrating (knowing we had no prayer of beating New England before the game began was infuriating). What we have now, though, is an organization that is all on the same page. Rick Smith knows what kind of player to pursue for Kubiak and for Wade. Kubiak knows he can trust Smith and the personnel department to make good decisions. It is an efficient operation and one that McNair was determined to develop.

We are in the midst of a decade of winning. I can't say that we will win a Superbowl. I think it is likely, but... I am supremely confident that this organization, at worst, will be winning many more than it loses the next 7 or 8 years... We will be watching quality football for the foreseeable future. Good news!
I agree with you. I hope we can do the same with coaches. Wade is not getting younger and need young DC candidate to groom under Wade's system. Perhaps, DB coach Joseph?

Playoffs
08-31-2013, 08:23 AM
Three -- 3! -- undrafted free agents will make this team's final 53 man roster.

That's ridiculously good. My hat is off to Rick & Co. :tiphat:

Check that, I was wrong..... it's 4 UDFAs:

RB Cierre Wood
LB Willie Jefferson
LB Justin Tuggle
CB AJ Bouye

Four!

drs23
08-31-2013, 11:56 AM
Check that, I was wrong..... it's 4 UDFAs:

RB Cierre Wood
LB Willie Jefferson
LB Justin Tuggle
CB AJ Bouye

Four!

FIRE RICK SMITH! :kitten:

Yes, I kid, I kid...:)

DX-TEX
08-31-2013, 11:59 AM
Pay the men minimal money Rick!

Texn4life
08-31-2013, 11:59 AM
Scouting department also deserves some credit for signing these guys as well. Ultimately Rick and company are making the final decision, but these guys are on the road and identifying players that might work well in our system.

Rey
08-31-2013, 12:05 PM
Maybe 3 udfa's making the roster speaks to the misses in the draft more than the udfa's actually being THAT good...:kitten: kind of

Either way, the roster is solid throughout.

steelbtexan
08-31-2013, 01:00 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

thunderkyss
08-31-2013, 01:05 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?


I think we've got contingencies for every one of those situations. If those were to happen reasonably timed throughout the season, I think we'll be ok.

But if they were to happen one week after another starting week 10... I mean you can only "handle" so much so fast.

Texn4life
08-31-2013, 01:14 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

What happens if any team loses their starting QB, RB, Safety, and RT? I seriously don't think he would and should be crucified if this happened.

Hervoyel
08-31-2013, 02:12 PM
What happens if any team loses their starting QB, RB, Safety, and RT? I seriously don't think he would and should be crucified if this happened.


Of course not. That's an "All bets are off" situation. GM did his job and well. Injury bug has no bearing on that.

Tailgate
08-31-2013, 02:46 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

Then we play Yates, Tate, Wood, Harris, Brayman, Jefferson, etc. Is any team out there going to fare better in this circumstance?

drs23
08-31-2013, 03:17 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

Personally, no different than today. After all it's not Rick & Gary out there crushing their knee caps. How could you possibly blame them?

Just axin...

steelbtexan
08-31-2013, 03:19 PM
Personally, no different than today. After all it's not Rick & Gary out there crushing their knee caps. How could you possibly blame them?

Just axin...

I dont blame them,

I was just trying to point out how fickle a fan base can be.

76Texan
08-31-2013, 03:32 PM
All these UDFA moves are just so that they can have some money to account for the guys on IR. :kitten:

ObsiWan
08-31-2013, 04:02 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

You need to supply a timeline to go with those losses to make an assessment.

If they all happen in September and we still manage to finish 8-8 because we have good-to-decent quality subs, thats not the end of the world. I'd be inclined to count that as a good job by Smithiak.

If they all happen in December, that means we were possibly 8-4 and very much in the playoff hunt but then folded (i.e., went oh fer Dec.) because the subs weren't good enough.

Thorn
08-31-2013, 04:28 PM
There are three things you can count on with injuries (1) they will happen to every team (2) some players are just more susceptible to injuries (3) you can't predict or count on them with the exception of rule (2).

Tate is on my list of "more susceptible", so hopefully we'll stash away a good RB on the practice squad since Wood made the 53. Sharpton also makes my (2) list.

Surreal McCoy
09-01-2013, 06:53 PM
It was a slow, frustrating process to get to this point. McNair's unpopular decision after that hideous season in 2010 is being rewarded. Believe me, I know Kubiak's limitations on gameday are frustrating (knowing we had no prayer of beating New England before the game began was infuriating). What we have now, though, is an organization that is all on the same page. Rick Smith knows what kind of player to pursue for Kubiak and for Wade. Kubiak knows he can trust Smith and the personnel department to make good decisions. It is an efficient operation and one that McNair was determined to develop.

We are in the midst of a decade of winning. I can't say that we will win a Superbowl. I think it is likely, but... I am supremely confident that this organization, at worst, will be winning many more than it loses the next 7 or 8 years... We will be watching quality football for the foreseeable future. Good news!

Remember when everyone (especially here) was calling for Rex to take over from Kubiak? Yeah, no one seems to be owning up to that gem of an idea anymore. :lol:

HJam72
09-01-2013, 07:37 PM
Just asking, not saying this will happen, playing devils advocate.

What happens if Schaub/Foster/Reed/Newton etc... go down with injuries (Possible if you look at what CND has been saying) and the Texans go 8-8 or worse. How will the fan base feel about Rick/Gary and company now?

I do feel that Rick and the scouting dept have done a great job this yr. Unlike how I've felt in past yrs.

If they go 8-8 in that situation, I will be ticked that they didn't "suck for whoever" and hopefully get a great QB.

Lucky
09-01-2013, 07:43 PM
Remember when everyone (especially here) was calling for Rex to take over from Kubiak?
No. I can't remember that at all. Feel free to search the forum. I do remember a lot of posters wanting Bill Cowher, with a handful of Jon Grudens thrown in. I don't remember any Ryan (Rex or Ryan) being on the radar here.

steelbtexan
09-01-2013, 07:54 PM
There are three things you can count on with injuries (1) they will happen to every team (2) some players are just more susceptible to injuries (3) you can't predict or count on them with the exception of rule (2).

Tate is on my list of "more susceptible", so hopefully we'll stash away a good RB on the practice squad since Wood made the 53. Sharpton also makes my (2) list.

Agreed

Dont worry about Tate. This is a contact yr. He's in great shape and I prdict that Foster wont last the season. But Tate will step in and show that he's an elite talent.

TheIronDuke
09-01-2013, 08:09 PM
No. I can't remember that at all. Feel free to search the forum. I do remember a lot of posters wanting Bill Cowher, with a handful of Jon Grudens thrown in. I don't remember any Ryan (Rex or Ryan) being on the radar here.

That was me, I was wanting Nolan Ryan. I've definitely come off that idea.

thunderkyss
09-01-2013, 08:17 PM
No. I can't remember that at all. Feel free to search the forum. I do remember a lot of posters wanting Bill Cowher, with a handful of Jon Grudens thrown in. I don't remember any Ryan (Rex or Ryan) being on the radar here.

Yeah, I don't remember anyone wanting RxRyan as our HC. I do remember folks saying how much better he was than Kubiak. That but whup'n they put on us week 1, getting to the play offs his first year, the Afc Championship game. Then following it & going 11-5, another AFC Championship game.

Rx was pretty good at blowing smoke & those guys loved having his back. But you can only bluff so long. & you can only sell snake-oil to your own people for so long.

Kubiak's been selling his snake oil to our boys for 7 years now.... let's see if they're still buying it.

thunderkyss
09-01-2013, 08:19 PM
Agreed

Dont worry about Tate. This is a contact yr. He's in great shape and I prdict that Foster wont last the season. But Tate will step in and show that he's an elite talent.

I just hope Arian don't take it personal if Ben is getting more carries early in the season. If we've got an early lead, I'm letting Ben & Cierre run roughshod in the second half. (Now I mean 10+ points)

SheTexan
09-02-2013, 09:01 AM
There's an entire section in yesterdays ragsheet, aka: Houston Chronicle, dedicated to our Texans, with pretty good reviews on our QB, GM, and the roster. Truthfully, a pretty good read.

For all you RS fans, an entire page is dedicated to his dedication! :)

GuerillaBlack
09-02-2013, 11:31 AM
I just hope Arian don't take it personal if Ben is getting more carries early in the season. If we've got an early lead, I'm letting Ben & Cierre run roughshod in the second half. (Now I mean 10+ points)

They better. Can't run Arian to the ground. I felt like they could have given him more rest when we had big leads last season.

ThaShark316
09-02-2013, 03:13 PM
They better. Can't run Arian to the ground. I felt like they could have given him more rest when we had big leads last season.

While I agree, just wait til the Playoffs (if/when we make it)...

Tate/Foster will have get their carries, then come January...Foster goes for 30 carries a week.

76Texan
09-02-2013, 03:57 PM
While I agree, just wait til the Playoffs (if/when we make it)...

Tate/Foster will have get their carries, then come January...Foster goes for 30 carries a week.

I think it will depend on how well Tate shows when he's on the field.

HJam72
09-02-2013, 10:56 PM
If we have a big enough lead that we won't be passing much (you know, like 3 points, LOL), then I think Wood should get what would be considered a lot of carries for a 3rd stringer. I mean as long as he's not going to get our QB(s) killed, you know.

Texian
09-02-2013, 11:20 PM
Gary called the shots on the 2006 draft and did better than any draft in Texans history. IMHO

Rick had nothing to do with the 2006 draft.

Contrary to popular belief the 2006 Texans was actually orchestrated by Charlie Casserly. It was Charlie who convinced Bob and Gary to pass on Reggie Bush and take Mario. And it was Charlie who talked Gary in to drafting Owen Daniels. The reason the Texans were not interested in VY and Leinart was Kubiak believed he could win a SB with David Carr and the Texans had already paid Carr a $10 million Bonus 2 months before the 06' draft.

Remember when everyone (especially here) was calling for Rex to take over from Kubiak? Yeah, no one seems to be owning up to that gem of an idea anymore. :lol:

NO, but I was calling calling for Bob McNair to HIRE Jim Harbaugh after the 2010 season (see houston texans message board). And for the record, my wish list is for Bob McNair to HIRE Oliver Luck as the GM for 2014 and David Shaw as the new Texans Head Coach in 2014.

paycheck71
09-02-2013, 11:26 PM
Contrary to popular belief the 2006 Texans was actually orchestrated by Charlie Casserly. It was Charlie who convinced Bob and Gary to pass on Reggie Bush and take Mario. And it was Charlie who talked Gary in to drafting Owen Daniels. The reason the Texans were not interested in VY and Leinart was Kubiak believed he could win a SB with David Carr and the Texans had already paid Carr a $10 million Bonus 2 months before the 06' draft.



I've always heard that Bob McNair wanted Kubiak to give Carr a shot and it was a condition of the employment. Kubiak wasn't all the interested in Carr, especially after talking to him. Again, just a story I read a long time ago.

infantrycak
09-02-2013, 11:31 PM
Contrary to popular belief the 2006 Texans was actually orchestrated by Charlie Casserly. It was Charlie who convinced Bob and Gary to pass on Reggie Bush and take Mario. And it was Charlie who talked Gary in to drafting Owen Daniels. The reason the Texans were not interested in VY and Leinart was Kubiak believed he could win a SB with David Carr and the Texans had already paid Carr a $10 million Bonus 2 months before the 06' draft.

The bold has been confirmed and shows the power dynamic, i.e. Kubiak was in charge. The rest is conjecture which is unconfirmed and conflicts with other reports as well as the dynamic demonstrated by OD.

Texian
09-02-2013, 11:50 PM
The bold has been confirmed and shows the power dynamic, i.e. Kubiak was in charge. The rest is conjecture which is unconfirmed and conflicts with other reports as well as the dynamic demonstrated by OD.

Does cherry picking go with conjecture since your cherries agree with your conjecture? There have been several confirmations and stories about the drafting Mario, not that hard to find, just need to put forth a little effort. Of all the videos, blogs and articles of Charlie explaining and discussing the 2006 draft, the Texans have never contradicted, not once, including Kubiak, Casserly's claims and explanations. They have, however, at times corroborated what Charlie had to say. I think it's also clear the Texans paid Carr his bonus within a few weeks of Kubiak being hired.

Basic logic and common sense to understand that is was Casserly, Casserly college & pro scouting departments who put together the 2006 draft. Kubiak didn't have time or people in place to do all that is needed to get ready for the draft. Kubiak had final say on players drafted but it was Casserly who provided all scouting reports and info for Kubiak to make the call or agree with Charlie. From that standpoint nothing has changed. Why Casserly also left not long after the draft. He could've taken his leave before the draft but he didn't, because he was putting the draft together.

infantrycak
09-03-2013, 12:01 AM
If it was so easy then you would link it. It's your assertion. Provide a quote from the horse's mouth.

You admit Kubiak had final call - that admits the whole game. If Kubiak had wanted anyone else then he would have taken them.

Who hired the scouts is irrelevant. Nobody comes in and fires the whole scouting department after both the pro and college seasons are over.

Texian
09-03-2013, 12:33 AM
If it was so easy then you would link it. It's your assertion. Provide a quote from the horse's mouth.

Let's start with these; http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2325442 and go to google.com and type in "Charley Casserly drafts Mario Williams" http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82849c2c/article/exgm-casserly-tells-of-drowning-out-the-draftniks and there are many more

You admit Kubiak had final call - that admits the whole game. If Kubiak had wanted anyone else then he would have taken them. or he did listen to Charley/Scouting Departments advice

Who hired the scouts is irrelevant. Nobody comes in and fires the whole scouting department after both the pro and college seasons are over.SO KUBIAK & COACHING STAFF DIDN"T PUT THE DRAFT BOARD TOGETHER? AND IT WAS CASSERLY'S & STAFF's DRAFT BOARD?

One man's conjecture is another man's apologies and excuses. It does appear you're trying to revise history a bit and write a story that agrees with your dislike of Casserly.

infantrycak
09-03-2013, 12:56 AM
One man's conjecture is another man's apologies and excuses. It does appear you're trying to revise history a bit and write a story that agrees with your dislike of Casserly.

LOL - and there you go proving your penchant for making up facts. I don't dislike Casserly.

Your articles are ridiculous. The 1st doesn't say anything about Mario. Nowhere in the 2nd does Casserly either (a) say Kubiak wanted Bush at any point or (b) take credit for convincing Kubiak to take Williams.

Your draft board comments do not reflect anything I said. There is no exclusive choice between coaches and the scouting dept. Everyone is involved.

dalemurphy
09-03-2013, 12:57 AM
One man's conjecture is another man's apologies and excuses. It does appear you're trying to revise history a bit and write a story that agrees with your dislike of Casserly.

Casserly was awful! I could care less that he hit on a couple guys over the course of 5 drafts. It took the organization 4 years to recover from the destruction he committed. He obliterated the cap by spending obscene amounts of money on guys over the hill... passed out draft picks like they were candy on Halloween (remember the 2nd and 3rd round picks for Phillip Buchanon), was duped into taking broken down players like Boselli and Young in the expansion draft... Somehow concluded that Julius Peppers was not a fit for a 3-4 defense and drafted David Carr instead- then proceeded to waste the other 10 picks from that draft.

So, an argument whether he was responsible for Mario Williams (good riddens, by the way) and/or Owen Daniels in the 2006 draft- of which only Daniels remains, is not one I would think many Texan fans are interested in.

I'm a huge fan of Gary Kubiak- that being said, I do not want Kubiak nor Casserly as the ultimate decision-maker when it comes to personnel... Since Kubiak lost that power after the 2010 6-10 fiasco, I think Smith has shown himself to be one of the best GMs in football.

Rey
09-03-2013, 01:22 AM
I think it was just a terrible mix. Bad player selection poor player development. You don't go 2-14 without some epic fail.

thunderkyss
09-03-2013, 08:19 AM
So, an argument whether he was responsible for Mario Williams (good riddens, by the way) and/or Owen Daniels in the 2006 draft- of which only Daniels remains, is not one I would think many Texan fans are interested in.


The Texans ain't never hit on a second rounder like they did with Demeco Ryans from that '06 draft. Hard to believe that Casserly found him & made the decision to select him when he couldn't trade into the first to get a decent first rounder.

Texian
09-03-2013, 11:20 AM
Casserly was awful! Somehow concluded that Julius Peppers was not a fit for a 3-4 defense and drafted David Carr instead- then proceeded to waste the other 10 picks from that draft.

So, an argument whether he was responsible for Mario Williams (good riddens, by the way) and/or Owen Daniels in the 2006 draft- of which only Daniels remains, is not one I would think many Texan fans are interested in.

I'm a huge fan of Gary Kubiak- that being said, I do not want Kubiak nor Casserly as the ultimate decision-maker when it comes to personnel... Since Kubiak lost that power after the 2010 6-10 fiasco, I think Smith has shown himself to be one of the best GMs in football.

I agree with you about Casserly, I am not a fan either. However that does not preclude me from acknowledging that it was Casserly who did orchestrate the 2006 draft and put the 2006 draft board together. I'm not a koolaid drinker.

Regarding Kubiak, he is the ultimate decision maker, he has final say on the 53 man roster, it's in his contract. He said so in a press conference at the end of the dismal 2010 season. He did not lose that power and said he would not relinquish that responsibility when he was asked.

I find it amusing how some fans say Kubiak had nothing to do with the decision to exercise the David Carr's $8 million option but has final say on everything else. Rick Smith is Kubiak's right hand, Smith does what Kubiak wants him to do. Smith was a assistant GM in Denver and it was Kubiak who hired Rick Smith. Rick Smith IS NOT a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitrioff, Rick Speilman and Jerry Reese are GMs. My wish list is for Bob McNair to hire Oliver Luck as that kind of GM for the Texans.

Much of the reasoning and thinking you read and see from Texans fans who drink the koolaid is contoured around their hopes, wants and wishes for the team, not the actual facts. It's the old adage, "they only see & hear, what they want to see and hear". If the facts don't agree with their hopes, wants & wishes they're easily dismissed with apologies, excuses and opinion.

The Pencil Neck
09-03-2013, 11:34 AM
I agree with you about Casserly, I am not a fan either. However that does not preclude me from acknowledging that it was Casserly who did orchestrate the 2006 draft and put the 2006 draft board together. I'm not a koolaid drinker.

Think about this, when Charlie Casserly was the GM of the Redskins, he made the trade with Ditka and the Saints to get an ENTIRE year's set of draft picks along with some draft picks for the next year and didn't do a damned thing with it. That Redskin's team should have had such an influx of talent that it should have been a dominant team for years.

And it wasn't.

All he got out of that draft was Champ Bailey.

If you look at the history of his drafts with the Texans and the Redskins, he rarely hit on a good player. Stephen Davis, Champ Bailey, Mark Schlereth, Andre Johnson, Dunta Robinson -- that might be about it.

And then you have the 2006 draft. Which was a great draft. Since 2006, the Texans have, for the most part, drafted pretty well.

It may be that Charlie Casserly was the primary force behind that 2006 draft but if so, it was a draft that looked nothing like any draft he'd ever had before.

Carr Bombed
09-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Charley Casserly was a lame duck G.M. during the 2006 draft. I highly doubt he had more influence or power over a first time HC who was looking to build a team in his image. Houston had nothing, but crap draft after crap draft before Kubiak showed up, so I think it's pretty obvious who had the final say so in that room.

I mean we're talking about a man who spent a 2nd round pick on Tony Hollings and traded 2nd and 3rd round picks for Phillip @#!%ing Buchanon (when Al Davis lost his mind and was making bone headed decisions, he was still able to take ol' Charley behind the woodshed). :gun: The only reason why Casserly was even in the room during that draft was because Kubiak was given complete control and was allowed to hand pick his own GM.. after the draft, hence why Rick Smith (from Denver) is here. Kubiak was given complete control.

P.S.

I'm tired of hearing about how Kubiak signed off on Carr and talking about how he could win with him... Like anybody here has never lied on a job interview before. The #1 requirement to becoming the Texans' head coach was the resurrection of David Carr. If Kubiak told McNair that he couldn't win with Carr, I highly doubt he'd be here.

dalemurphy
09-03-2013, 02:07 PM
I agree with you about Casserly, I am not a fan either. However that does not preclude me from acknowledging that it was Casserly who did orchestrate the 2006 draft and put the 2006 draft board together. I'm not a koolaid drinker.

Regarding Kubiak, he is the ultimate decision maker, he has final say on the 53 man roster, it's in his contract. He said so in a press conference at the end of the dismal 2010 season. He did not lose that power and said he would not relinquish that responsibility when he was asked.

I find it amusing how some fans say Kubiak had nothing to do with the decision to exercise the David Carr's $8 million option but has final say on everything else. Rick Smith is Kubiak's right hand, Smith does what Kubiak wants him to do. Smith was a assistant GM in Denver and it was Kubiak who hired Rick Smith. Rick Smith IS NOT a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitrioff, Rick Speilman and Jerry Reese are GMs. My wish list is for Bob McNair to hire Oliver Luck as that kind of GM for the Texans.

Much of the reasoning and thinking you read and see from Texans fans who drink the koolaid is contoured around their hopes, wants and wishes for the team, not the actual facts. It's the old adage, "they only see & hear, what they want to see and hear". If the facts don't agree with their hopes, wants & wishes they're easily dismissed with apologies, excuses and opinion.

It was clear to me that a power shift occurred after 2010. I do not think Kubiak has authority over all the personnel decisions anymore. No, I can't prove it.

dalemurphy
09-03-2013, 02:15 PM
Charley Casserly was a lame duck G.M. during the 2006 draft. I highly doubt he had more influence or power over a first time HC who was looking to build a team in his image. Houston had nothing, but crap draft after crap draft before Kubiak showed up, so I think it's pretty obvious who had the final say so in that room.

I mean we're talking about a man who spent a 2nd round pick on Tony Hollings and traded 2nd and 3rd round picks for Phillip @#!%ing Buchanon (when Al Davis lost his mind and was making bone headed decisions, he was still able to take ol' Charley behind the woodshed). :gun: The only reason why Casserly was even in the room during that draft was because Kubiak was given complete control and was allowed to hand pick his own GM.. after the draft, hence why Rick Smith (from Denver) is here. Kubiak was given complete control.

P.S.

I'm tired of hearing about how Kubiak signed off on Carr and talking about how he could win with him... Like anybody here has never lied on a job interview before. The #1 requirement to becoming the Texans' head coach was the resurrection of David Carr. If Kubiak told McNair that he couldn't win with Carr, I highly doubt he'd be here.

I feel no need to defend Kubiak in this area. I would expect a quarterback guru to believe he could successfully improve a young,talent at the position. Carr's issues came from a lack of commitment, I think. Once stuck working with him, it didn't take Kubiak long to figure out Carr wasn't the guy.

This illustrates why I don't like coaches as gm... Their belief in their system and teaching should cloud their assessment of players. It is the gm that needs to compare and contrast the talent available and determine what players are the best available option for the team, given the resources available.

Ben Frank
09-03-2013, 02:18 PM
I had a question I needed answered, and I didn't want to start a thread on it.. so maybe someone can help me

I kno Ben Tate got a lot of money coming his way after the season, so I was wondering if the Texans can use the Franchise Tag on him to keep him for another year?

infantrycak
09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
I had a question I needed answered, and I didn't want to start a thread on it.. so maybe someone can help me

I kno Ben Tate got a lot of money coming his way after the season, so I was wondering if the Texans can use the Franchise Tag on him to keep him for another year?

Yes they can, but I doubt his value is very high right now. He needs another 2011 if he is to get a big payday.

b0ng
09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
Wasn't Dave Ragone a 3rd rounder?

The Pencil Neck
09-03-2013, 02:26 PM
I had a question I needed answered, and I didn't want to start a thread on it.. so maybe someone can help me

I kno Ben Tate got a lot of money coming his way after the season, so I was wondering if the Texans can use the Franchise Tag on him to keep him for another year?

That's one option. I doubt they'll use the Franchise Tag on a backup running back, though.

Ben Frank
09-03-2013, 02:27 PM
Oh ok, thanks for the info