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Carr Bombed
09-03-2013, 01:32 PM
I agree with you about Casserly, I am not a fan either. However that does not preclude me from acknowledging that it was Casserly who did orchestrate the 2006 draft and put the 2006 draft board together. I'm not a koolaid drinker.

Regarding Kubiak, he is the ultimate decision maker, he has final say on the 53 man roster, it's in his contract. He said so in a press conference at the end of the dismal 2010 season. He did not lose that power and said he would not relinquish that responsibility when he was asked.

I find it amusing how some fans say Kubiak had nothing to do with the decision to exercise the David Carr's $8 million option but has final say on everything else. Rick Smith is Kubiak's right hand, Smith does what Kubiak wants him to do. Smith was a assistant GM in Denver and it was Kubiak who hired Rick Smith. Rick Smith IS NOT a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Thomas Dimitrioff, Rick Speilman and Jerry Reese are GMs. My wish list is for Bob McNair to hire Oliver Luck as that kind of GM for the Texans.

Much of the reasoning and thinking you read and see from Texans fans who drink the koolaid is contoured around their hopes, wants and wishes for the team, not the actual facts. It's the old adage, "they only see & hear, what they want to see and hear". If the facts don't agree with their hopes, wants & wishes they're easily dismissed with apologies, excuses and opinion.

Regardless of how the power structure works and I agree with Dale.. Kubiak had his hand slapped, reason why he was no longer allowed to bring in "his guys" on defense. A lot of our success can also be attributed to the maturation of our owner as well, but a lot of our success can also be attributed to Rick Smith and your opinion that he's just a "yes man/figure head" is wrong.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1411114-power-ranking-all-32-nfl-general-managers/page/25

Rick Smith is one of the brightest young GMs in the game today

and, I don't understand your last paragraph. I'm not a "koolaid" drinker by any means and am very critical of my team, but replace "koolaid" with "hateraid" and it pretty much describes what you've written. I mean, what exactly have you typed that is proven fact? The only thing I see is opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

Texian
09-03-2013, 03:09 PM
It was clear to me that a power shift occurred after 2010. I do not think Kubiak has authority over all the personnel decisions anymore. No, I can't prove it.

Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster whether you choose to believe it or not. In the 2010 year end press conference, John McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he would give up complete control in order to keep his job. Kubiak responded saying he would NOT that it was in his contract and would not agree to any such changes.

Regardless of how the power structure works and I agree with Dale.. Kubiak had his hand slapped, reason why he was no longer allowed to bring in "his guys" on defense. A lot of our success can also be attributed to the maturation of our owner as well, but a lot of our success can also be attributed to Rick Smith and your opinion that he's just a "yes man/figure head" is wrong.

Contrary to popular belief, Rick Smith did NOT hire Wade Phillips, Bob McNair did. Smith had nothing to do with Wade. Wade's hiring all started when McNair invited Bum to a practice 3-4 weeks before the season ended. Rick Smith did his part in contributing to the poor defenses, Smith's first draft pick was Amobe Okoye passing on Patrick Willis. Again, contrary to popular belief it is not so much as Rick Smith making the draft picks as some believe. Kubiak allows his coaches most of the leeway in the decision making process on selecting draft picks starting with,

It was Alex Gibbs who picked Duane Brown
It was Frank Bush who picked Brian Cushing...and
It was Wade Phillips who picked JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus

(FYI - Bob McNair gave Wade the 2011 & 2012 1st Rd draft picks as part of the deal to become DC)

I do believe Smith does get credit for Kareem Jackson.

Rick Smith is not a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Thomas Dimitroff, Rick Spielman and Trent Balke are GMs. No siree.

Y'all can say that this is conjecture and opinion but that's way it was and is.

The Pencil Neck
09-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster whether you choose to believe it or not. In the 2010 year end press conference, John McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he would give up complete control in order to keep his job. Kubiak responded saying he would NOT that it was in his contract and would not agree to any such changes.



Contrary to popular belief, Rick Smith did NOT hire Wade Phillips, Bob McNair did. Smith had nothing to do with Wade. Wade's hiring all started when McNair invited Bum to a practice 3-4 weeks before the season ended. Rick Smith did his part in contributing to the poor defenses, Smith's first draft pick was Amobe Okoye passing on Patrick Willis. Again, contrary to popular belief it is not so much as Rick Smith making the draft picks as some believe. Kubiak allows his coaches most of the leeway in the decision making process on selecting draft picks starting with,

It was Alex Gibbs who picked Duane Brown
It was Frank Bush who picked Brian Cushing...and
It was Wade Phillips who picked JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus

(FYI - Bob McNair gave Wade the 2011 & 2012 1st Rd draft picks as part of the deal to become DC)

I do believe Smith does get credit for Kareem Jackson.

Rick Smith is not a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Thomas Dimitroff, Rick Spielman and Trent Balke are GMs. No siree.

Y'all can say that this is conjecture and opinion but that's way it was and is.

If you think any pick exists in a vacuum, you've got another think coming.

Carr Bombed
09-03-2013, 03:33 PM
Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster whether you choose to believe it or not. In the 2010 year end press conference, John McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he would give up complete control in order to keep his job. Kubiak responded saying he would NOT that it was in his contract and would not agree to any such changes.



Contrary to popular belief, Rick Smith did NOT hire Wade Phillips, Bob McNair did. Smith had nothing to do with Wade. Wade's hiring all started when McNair invited Bum to a practice 3-4 weeks before the season ended. Rick Smith did his part in contributing to the poor defenses, Smith's first draft pick was Amobe Okoye passing on Patrick Willis. Again, contrary to popular belief it is not so much as Rick Smith making the draft picks as some believe. Kubiak allows his coaches most of the leeway in the decision making process on selecting draft picks starting with,

It was Alex Gibbs who picked Duane Brown
It was Frank Bush who picked Brian Cushing...and
It was Wade Phillips who picked JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus

(FYI - Bob McNair gave Wade the 2011 & 2012 1st Rd draft picks as part of the deal to become DC)

I do believe Smith does get credit for Kareem Jackson.

Rick Smith is not a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Thomas Dimitroff, Rick Spielman and Trent Balke are GMs. No siree.

Y'all can say that this is conjecture and opinion but that's way it was and is.

I stopped reading your response right there.

:vincepalm: When Okoye was drafted and when we "passed on Willis", Houston already had the defensive rookie of the year maning the middle of their defense.

badboy
09-03-2013, 03:43 PM
If we have a big enough lead that we won't be passing much (you know, like 3 points, LOL), then I think Wood should get what would be considered a lot of carries for a 3rd stringer. I mean as long as he's not going to get our QB(s) killed, you know.IIRC, neither Foster or Tate were known for their blocking skills when they were added to roster or any other non full back for that matter.

Texian
09-03-2013, 03:55 PM
I stopped reading your response right there. SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS

:vincepalm: When Okoye was drafted and when we "passed on Willis", Houston already had the defensive rookie of the year maning the middle of their defense.

Now imagine if they had moved Demeco back to OLB the same position he played for 4 years at Alabama and put Willis at ILB.

Carr Bombed
09-03-2013, 03:59 PM
Now imagine if they had moved Demeco back to OLB the same position he played for 4 years at Alabama and put Willis at ILB.

Why would they do that? DeMeco was one of the best MLBers in the entire league that season, hell he might've been the best... why would you move him?

Houston was NEVER going to draft a LBer in the first round in 2007. There was plenty of holes to fill, LBer was not one of them.

thunderkyss
09-03-2013, 04:01 PM
Regardless who is responsible for identifying the guy, or picking the guy, Rick Smith gets the credit.

& like the title of this thread says, "Rick Smith looks smarter every day."

Texian
09-03-2013, 04:17 PM
Regardless who is responsible for identifying the guy, or picking the guy, Rick Smith gets the credit.

& like the title of this thread says, "Rick Smith looks smarter every day."

Just like when Andre was having problems getting his contract redone and was sitting in Miami and they moved Rick Smith to the sidelines to get the deal done. Aamzing how this story skips the koolaid drinkers mind. Hip hip hooray for Rick Smith, for he's a jolly good fellow....

thunderkyss
09-03-2013, 04:20 PM
Just like when Andre was having problems getting his contract redone and was sitting in Miami and they moved Rick Smith to the sidelines to get the deal done. Aamzing how this story skips the koolaid drinkers mind. Hip hip hooray for Rick Smith, for he's a jolly good fellow....

I have a hard time remembering things like that, but didn't Andre end his "hold out" before getting another contract?

& the pushing Smith to the side thing... you must be privy to some inside info because I never heard/saw anything to suggest as much.

Why would McNair keep paying this guy?

Texian
09-03-2013, 04:30 PM
I have a hard time remembering things like that, but didn't Andre end his "hold out" before getting another contract?

& the pushing Smith to the side thing... you must be privy to some inside info because I never heard/saw anything to suggest as much.

Why would McNair keep paying this guy?

Smith was doing a lot talking while Andre was in Miami, when Andre returned you didn't see or hear anything from Rick Smith. At that point Bob McNair was doing most of the talking.

Translation: Andre stayed in Miami because Rick Smith was playing hard ball because Andre already had a contract w/ 5 years remaining. Bob McNair called Andre and said come on home Andre, I promise we will take care of you.

Carr Bombed
09-03-2013, 04:50 PM
Smith was doing a lot talking while Andre was in Miami, when Andre returned you didn't see or hear anything from Rick Smith. At that point Bob McNair was doing most of the talking.

Translation: Andre stayed in Miami because Rick Smith was playing hard ball because Andre already had a contract w/ 5 years remaining. Bob McNair called Andre and said come on home Andre, I promise we will take care of you.

Are you a member of the NSA? :gun:

Texian
09-03-2013, 05:03 PM
Are you a member of the NSA? :gun:

Yes, and you can expect your letter from the IRS in the next two weeks :handshake:

Playoffs
09-03-2013, 05:06 PM
Bob McNair sent Rick Smith out to pick up lunch from his favorite Hinze's BBQ in Sealy... then negotiated Cushing's contract extension while Smith was away. Did you remember to get extra sauce?

ObsiWan
09-03-2013, 05:08 PM
Bob McNair sent Rick Smith out to pick up lunch from his favorite Hinze's BBQ in Sealy... then negotiated Cushing's contract extension while Smith was away.

okay, now I'm hungry

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kgLTms5zyTw/UZVH5CaKKjI/AAAAAAAAABg/PLAMADEZtMM/w270-h360-no/barbecue+restaurant.jpghttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9aArHaalYKw/USdP9Pp9y5I/AAAAAAB8Gs8/WEk5Xfvzt6A/w397-h252-p-o/Hinze%2527s+BBQ+%2526+Catering

infantrycak
09-03-2013, 05:52 PM
Just like when Andre was having problems getting his contract redone and was sitting in Miami and they moved Rick Smith to the sidelines to get the deal done. Aamzing how this story skips the koolaid drinkers mind. Hip hip hooray for Rick Smith, for he's a jolly good fellow....

I have a hard time remembering things like that, but didn't Andre end his "hold out" before getting another contract?

& the pushing Smith to the side thing... you must be privy to some inside info because I never heard/saw anything to suggest as much.

Why would McNair keep paying this guy?

You don't remember it because Texian is just making crap up. Then he tries to shout down anyone who disagrees with his Carnac the Magnificent impersonation by saying they are koolaid drinkers or apologists.

Your memory is better. AJ missed three days of OTAs and then came back of his own volition because he recognized he had no leverage, or in his own words:

I don't really think you can really win against an organization. When you're under contract, they can hold you to that, and it's up to them to re-do it or give you an extension or whatever they want to do. They really don't have to do anything. They can sit there and hold me to that contract, and if you choose to sit out and take fines, that's what happens. But I'm past that. I'm over that. I'm here working and I'm going to continue to work and hopefully we can achieve our goal of getting to the playoffs and winning the Super Bowl.

Link (http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/17/1475870/andre-johnson-contract-skips-texans-otas) This reads bottom to top in terms of chronological order. You will note Smith is still involved after AJ returned.

drs23
09-03-2013, 06:17 PM
Why would they do that? DeMeco was one of the best MLBers in the entire league that season, hell he might've been the best... why would you move him?

Houston was NEVER going to draft a LBer in the first round in 2007. There was plenty of holes to fill, LBer was not one of them.

I've come to the conclusion that trying to intelligently converse real world Texans football with this cat is very much:

:deadhorse: and :brickwall:

UNCLE for me...simply because none of us have a clue, though pretty much each of his assertions have been debunked thoroughly by the majority.

Nothing personal for sure. To each his own and I'm simply expressing my opinion. It's a little different than most though 'cause it don't stink. :D

Gotta give the cat credit where credit is due, he will certainly keep on keepin' on.

You go Texian! I find a few of your retorts on the money but most of them I find to be fos.

That's prolly just me though. Carry on, as I'm sure you will.

Texian
09-03-2013, 06:24 PM
You don't remember it because Texian is just making crap up. Then he tries to shout down anyone who disagrees with his Carnac the Magnificent impersonation by saying they are koolaid drinkers or apologists.

Your memory is better. AJ missed three days of OTAs and then came back of his own volition because he recognized he had no leverage, or in his own words:



Link (http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/17/1475870/andre-johnson-contract-skips-texans-otas) This reads bottom to top in terms of chronological order. You will note Smith is still involved after AJ returned.

What you talking about Willis, you're main antagonizer if there is one. Chief of the Deragtory, Sultan of Argumentative, I Will Shut you Down, Master of the Bullies.

I said he was in Miami TRUE, I agreed he came back on his own volition (with clear possibility it could've been behind the scenes urging by Bob McNair) TRUE. Smith was playing hardball saying the would be willing to talk and out of the other side of his mouth saying, but Andre still has 5 years on his contract. TRUE When Andre returned to Houston, Rick Smith stopped being heard in the public negotiating arena TRUE. Bob McNair WAS, TRUE. Read your own links, confirms what Texian wrote is TRUE.

Carnac says: TANGERINE Question: What is the flavor of the Kool-Aid you're drinking. :)

dalemurphy
09-03-2013, 10:27 PM
Kubiak has final say on the 53 man roster whether you choose to believe it or not. In the 2010 year end press conference, John McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he would give up complete control in order to keep his job. Kubiak responded saying he would NOT that it was in his contract and would not agree to any such changes.



Contrary to popular belief, Rick Smith did NOT hire Wade Phillips, Bob McNair did. Smith had nothing to do with Wade. Wade's hiring all started when McNair invited Bum to a practice 3-4 weeks before the season ended. Rick Smith did his part in contributing to the poor defenses, Smith's first draft pick was Amobe Okoye passing on Patrick Willis. Again, contrary to popular belief it is not so much as Rick Smith making the draft picks as some believe. Kubiak allows his coaches most of the leeway in the decision making process on selecting draft picks starting with,

It was Alex Gibbs who picked Duane Brown
It was Frank Bush who picked Brian Cushing...and
It was Wade Phillips who picked JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus

(FYI - Bob McNair gave Wade the 2011 & 2012 1st Rd draft picks as part of the deal to become DC)

I do believe Smith does get credit for Kareem Jackson.

Rick Smith is not a GM in the sense that Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, Jerry Reese, Thomas Dimitroff, Rick Spielman and Trent Balke are GMs. No siree.

Y'all can say that this is conjecture and opinion but that's way it was and is.


Alex Gibbs had the power to select first round picks? Is that what you are saying? Or, are you suggesting that the GM listens to the opinions of coaches and scouts then makes the final call on who he agrees with? To think that a GM isn't doing all the scouting,interviewing, and film study by himself! What a bum! (That is sarcasm for those determined cynics who actually think smith is a bum)

dream_team
09-03-2013, 11:11 PM
Contrary to popular belief, Rick Smith did NOT hire Wade Phillips, Bob McNair did. Smith had nothing to do with Wade. Wade's hiring all started when McNair invited Bum to a practice 3-4 weeks before the season ended. Rick Smith did his part in contributing to the poor defenses, Smith's first draft pick was Amobe Okoye passing on Patrick Willis. Again, contrary to popular belief it is not so much as Rick Smith making the draft picks as some believe. Kubiak allows his coaches most of the leeway in the decision making process on selecting draft picks starting with,

It was Alex Gibbs who picked Duane Brown
It was Frank Bush who picked Brian Cushing...and
It was Wade Phillips who picked JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus


If you can provide at least one source as evidence for any of these claims, I will forever believe everything you say and always back you up. And I want facts, not opinions.

steelbtexan
09-03-2013, 11:22 PM
Alex Gibbs had the power to select first round picks? Is that what you are saying? Or, are you suggesting that the GM listens to the opinions of coaches and scouts then makes the final call on who he agrees with? To think that a GM isn't doing all the scouting,interviewing, and film study by himself! What a bum! (That is sarcasm for those determined cynics who actually think smith is a bum)

Not getting into the cat fight,

But I do believe Alex Gibbs was brought in to fix the OL and he was promised the 1st rd pick that yr. Just like with Wade and the defense. I've got no proof of that. Just call this an educated guess.

Rick was smart enough to listen to a HOF OL coach and pick D.Brown.

The Pencil Neck
09-04-2013, 01:14 AM
Not getting into the cat fight,

But I do believe Alex Gibbs was brought in to fix the OL and he was promised the 1st rd pick that yr. Just like with Wade and the defense. I've got no proof of that. Just call this an educated guess.

Rick was smart enough to listen to a HOF OL coach and pick D.Brown.

I don't think Rick doesn't listen to the coaches but I don't think anyone is given Carte Blanche to pick who they want.

Rick gives his list of guys to the coaches and the coaches take a look at guys he's identified and then based on that list, they work out who's going to be drafted.

Alex Gibbs was given a list of guys and told, "Tell me who you want. Tell me which guys fit into your system. We're going to make fixing the line a priority so which guys will do that." Don't forget, Rick traded back and still got his guy. So there was every chance he would have missed on him but he didn't.

Same with Wade and the same with Frank Bush and Richard Smith before him.

But if there hadn't been anyone at that pick worthy of it, the pick would have gone another way.

Heck, if Ted Ginn, Jr. had been available, we would have had him instead of Amobi Okoye. :vincepalm:

Texian
09-04-2013, 09:53 AM
If you can provide at least one source as evidence for any of these claims, I will forever believe everything you say and always back you up. And I want facts, not opinions.

If you go back and find the video of the perspective coaches discussing the draft picks you see what I am talking about. You will find Frank Bush being asked about Cushing and when did they know that's who they wanted. Frank responded in saying he had the opportunity to watch a USC game earlier in the season and he kind of knew then, that if Cushing was available when the Texans picked, Cushing would be his pick, Cush was his guy. Bush said Cush reminded him of Bill Romanowski.

http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/tv-media/videos/Bush-loves-Cushings-intensity/3B496EE7-3485-4F76-A827-C1A63E15B544

There is also video of Wade after drafting Mercilus commenting about McNair giving him the 1st Rd draft picks.

But I do believe Alex Gibbs was brought in to fix the OL and he was promised the 1st rd pick that yr.

You're are correct steelb. After the dismal rushing teams of Ahman Green and Ron Dayne, Gibbs was brought in to fix the OL and given complete authority over the Texans run game. Brown was only the 2nd time he drafted a 1st rd OT. Gibbs always felt that he could find OL he wanted in the later rds of the draft. There are very interviews of Gibbs but there is one where he does discuss his research of Brown. For all you naysayers, Gibbs would not take a job if he did not have full control of the running game.

badboy
09-04-2013, 11:08 AM
I don't think Rick doesn't listen to the coaches but I don't think anyone is given Carte Blanche to pick who they want.Rick gives his list of guys to the coaches and the coaches take a look at guys he's identified and then based on that list, they work out who's going to be drafted.

Alex Gibbs was given a list of guys and told, "Tell me who you want. Tell me which guys fit into your system. We're going to make fixing the line a priority so which guys will do that." Don't forget, Rick traded back and still got his guy. So there was every chance he would have missed on him but he didn't.

Same with Wade and the same with Frank Bush and Richard Smith before him.

But if there hadn't been anyone at that pick worthy of it, the pick would have gone another way.

Heck, if Ted Ginn, Jr. had been available, we would have had him instead of Amobi Okoye. :vincepalm:Simpler, cleaner and easier to read the bolded "I think Rick listens to the coaches"...

thunderkyss
09-04-2013, 11:09 AM
You're are correct steelb. After the dismal rushing teams of Ahman Green and Ron Dayne, Gibbs was brought in to fix the OL and given complete authority over the Texans run game. Brown was only the 2nd time he drafted a 1st rd OT. Gibbs always felt that he could find OL he wanted in the later rds of the draft. There are very interviews of Gibbs but there is one where he does discuss his research of Brown. For all you naysayers, Gibbs would not take a job if he did not have full control of the running game.

I also remember Gibbs saying he took a very hands-off approach to coaching the Texans, as if he were here to coach Benton, not the line itself.

The Pencil Neck
09-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Simpler, cleaner and easier to read the bolded "I think Rick listens to the coaches"...

I agree.

Texian
09-04-2013, 12:23 PM
I also remember Gibbs saying he took a very hands-off approach to coaching the Texans, as if he were here to coach Benton, not the line itself.

In the beginning Gibbs was very much hands on. Later on he took on more of a consultant role. If you ever went to a pre season practice you could see there was no question Gibbs was hands on in your face.

dream_team
09-04-2013, 07:10 PM
If you go back and find the video of the perspective coaches discussing the draft picks you see what I am talking about. You will find Frank Bush being asked about Cushing and when did they know that's who they wanted. Frank responded in saying he had the opportunity to watch a USC game earlier in the season and he kind of knew then, that if Cushing was available when the Texans picked, Cushing would be his pick, Cush was his guy. Bush said Cush reminded him of Bill Romanowski.

http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/tv-media/videos/Bush-loves-Cushings-intensity/3B496EE7-3485-4F76-A827-C1A63E15B544

There is also video of Wade after drafting Mercilus commenting about McNair giving him the 1st Rd draft picks.

I watched the video and I still don't see how you can infer that Cushing was Bush's pick, and Smith or Kubiak had nothing to do with it. Bush repeatedly said "He was OUR guy" and "WE like him...", referring that it was a group decision. Sure, it sounds like Cushing was Bush's favorite player in the draft, and he really wanted him, but lets not make it out to be Bush's pick and his pick alone. At the end of the day, the GM has final say on all draft picks.

BTW, no matter who the pick was, everyone on the Texans organization is going to talk him up as if that was the exact guy they wanted. No time will you hear something like, "I actually wanted to get McCourty, but Rick preferred Kareem instead."

infantrycak
09-04-2013, 07:31 PM
Sure, it sounds like Cushing was Bush's favorite player in the draft, and he really wanted him, but lets not make it out to be Bush's pick and his pick alone.

Kubiak used the same we language language when interviewed. As you say, any coach interviewed is going to act excited.

At the end of the day, the GM has final say on all draft picks.

Not on this team. Kubiak has final say. It's in his contract. That said, the process as a whole is always collaborative.

Texian
09-05-2013, 08:42 AM
I watched the video and I still don't see how you can infer that Cushing was Bush's pick, and Smith or Kubiak had nothing to do with it. Bush repeatedly said "He was OUR guy" and "WE like him...", referring that it was a group decision. Sure, it sounds like Cushing was Bush's favorite player in the draft, and he really wanted him, but lets not make it out to be Bush's pick and his pick alone. At the end of the day, the GM has final say on all draft picks.

BTW, no matter who the pick was, everyone on the Texans organization is going to talk him up as if that was the exact guy they wanted. No time will you hear something like, "I actually wanted to get McCourty, but Rick preferred Kareem instead."

The last minute of the video Bush says Cush was his guy and was early in the season. Bush did say Kubiak & Smith were working the phones so he wasn't sure but when the Texans were on the clock, Bush got his man. I can see where the video is open to interpretation, I've always said, people are going to hear and see what they want to hear and see. And if they have a bias or agenda, what they see and hear usually supports their bias and/or agenda. You strongly want to believe that Rick is in charge and a GM in the mold of Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome. That is simply not the case. Rick is a GM in the mold like Scott Pioli was under Bill Belichick.

thunderkyss
09-05-2013, 08:55 AM
The last minute of the video Bush says Cush was his guy and was early in the season. Bush did say Kubiak & Smith were working the phones so he wasn't sure but when the Texans were on the clock, Bush got his man. I can see where the video is open to interpretation, I've always said, people are going to hear and see what they want to hear and see. And if they have a bias or agenda, what they see and hear usually supports their bias and/or agenda. You strongly want to believe that Rick is in charge and GM in the mold of Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome. That is simply not the case. Rick is a GM in the mold like Scott Pioli was under Bill Belichick.

I'm fine with that. It doesn't make sense to me that every coach is going to know every player & it doesn't make sense to me that a GM is going to get players that the coaches don't want.

But if it's in Kubiak's contract that he has the last word, it doesn't really matter.

As far as Cushing goes, I did wonder how they made that choice. I wanted ReyRey... Bloodline would have made sense. We had our pick of the litter & I thought Cush was the least likely to be a Texan.

Texian
09-05-2013, 09:35 AM
I'm fine with that. It doesn't make sense to me that every coach is going to know every player & it doesn't make sense to me that a GM is going to get players that the coaches don't want.

But if it's in Kubiak's contract that he has the last word, it doesn't really matter.

As far as Cushing goes, I did wonder how they made that choice. I wanted ReyRey... Bloodline would have made sense. We had our pick of the litter & I thought Cush was the least likely to be a Texan.

I'm with you, I was really hoping they would draft Matthews, I'm also a DNA proponent. At the time, the Texans highest priority was a pass rusher and Matthews made the most sense to me. The other reason I wanted Matthews so badly was his 1.49 10 yd split (aka DeMarcus Ware territory). Cushing was often standing on the sidelines during passing downs and replaced Kaluka Maiava while at USC. As a pass rusher Cushing didn't make the best sense to me.

I am also from the school of thought that in most cases you have to go with scouts recommendations vs coaches (aka NYG, GB, BAL). Scouts evaluate talent 60-80 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Trust the scout.

Insideop
09-05-2013, 10:57 AM
Kubiak used the same we language language when interviewed. As you say, any coach interviewed is going to act excited.



Not on this team. Kubiak has final say. It's in his contract. That said, the process as a whole is always collaborative.

This is what I've always heard about the Texans draft too. It's a collaborative effort among the Coaches, GM, and even the Scouts have some say. And, logically, doesn't that make the most sense? What good would it do the team if the GM never listened to what the Coaches wanted and got players that don't fit their style of play? Or, what good would it do the team if the the Coaches didn't listen to the Scouts about the players they want to draft?

Ultimately, it has to be a collaborative effort among the group to pick the players that best fit what your team does. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Oakland or Dallas where one man controls everything. This may work for awhile, but sooner or later it fails, depending on the age, experience, health, or senility :) of the controller. Now, Kubes may have final say on the draft pick, but I'm sure he does this after conferring with everyone involved, and he probably defers to Wade or Rick on defensive players. :twocents:

thunderkyss
09-05-2013, 11:20 AM
Ultimately, it has to be a collaborative effort among the group to pick the players that best fit what your team does. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Oakland or Dallas where one man controls everything. This may work for awhile, but sooner or later it fails, depending on the age, experience, health, or senility :) of the controller.

I think where it fell of is that those two owners stopped selling their dream to their organization. If you read anything on Al Davis, or even watch the documentaries, he was an amazing man. & Jerrah was driven.

When they were at the top of their game, they could sell ice to an eskimo & that's how, I believe, they earned their Super Bowls.

But after so much success, they began selling their organizations to the public & while there are die hard Raider fans every where & the Cowboys continue to collect bank..... it seems everyone outside those organizations believe in them way more than the people inside the organizations.

Playoffs
09-05-2013, 11:23 AM
This is what I've always heard about the Texans draft too. It's a collaborative effort among the Coaches, GM, and even the Scouts have some say. And, logically, doesn't that make the most sense?...

If you hate Rick Smith, the coaches made the selections of our best players and Smith selected our busts.

If you hate Kubiak, Rick or the coordinators or the scouts selected our best players and Kubiak selected our busts.

If you hate Smith & Kubiak, they selected our busts and McNair & coordinators & scouts selected our best players.

Same goes for hirings/firings, and Bob McNair. Simple. :truck:

Texian
09-05-2013, 11:43 AM
If you hate Rick Smith, the coaches made the selections of our best players and Smith selected our busts.

If you hate Kubiak, Rick or the coordinators or the scouts selected our best players and Kubiak selected our busts.

If you hate Smith & Kubiak, they selected our busts and McNair & coordinators & scouts selected our best players.

Same goes for hirings/firings, and Bob McNair. Simple. :truck:

It's not a love or hate thing. It's a clarification. Some contend Smith has complete, full and total control. Others like me say no, Kubiak has Final say. Smith is a GM in the mold of Scott Pioli when he was working for Bill Belichick. Based on this definition, Smith does not get credit for Watt and Cushing. Therefore Smith also doesn't get the credit for Okoye and Ahman Green. I think it fairly clear that Ahman Green was a Mike Sherman/Gary Kubiak decision and Rick Smith made it happen. And this is one the better examples of how the Texans front office most commonly operates.

The Pencil Neck
09-05-2013, 12:18 PM
It's not a love or hate thing. It's a clarification. Some contend Smith has complete, full and total control. Others like me say no, Kubiak has Final say. Smith is a GM in the mold of Scott Pioli when he was working for Bill Belichick. Based on this definition, Smith does not get credit for Watt and Cushing. Therefore Smith also doesn't get the credit for Okoye and Ahman Green. I think it fairly clear that Ahman Green was a Mike Sherman/Gary Kubiak decision and Rick Smith made it happen. And this is one the better examples of how the Texans front office most commonly operates.

I think you're creating a strawman. I don't know of anyone who has said that Smith has complete, full, and total control.

I don't think anyone has complete, full, and total control in this FO. I don't think it works that way. I see this FO as a collaboration. Everyone has a job and the whole thing is, as Rick Smith has said, a process.

With Ahman Green, same thing. The Texans needed a running back, Mike Sherman had personal experience with Ahman and said he was great and still had tread on his tires. I don't think there was a lot of push-back from either Smith or Kubiak because I think they were both on-board with the call. I don't see that as Sherman and/or Kubiak making the decision and ordering Smith to make it happen.

During the draft process, I believe the team identifies the areas they want to focus on. Rick gets a list of the types of players the coaching staff wants and is looking for then he and his scouts come back with options. Then the coordinators and position coaches respond with the guys they think best fit their system and the guys they really want to have.

Did Frank Bush get his guy? Yeah. But that wasn't because that pick was "given" to Frank Bush. If things had played out differently, Smith would have gone another route.

In the draft room, Smith has a lot of control. He's the one making the trades. He's the one figuring out if they can get their guy later or if they have to move up to get him. Or if there's a bunch of guys so someone will drop to them.

If you recall the Duane Brown draft, Smith traded back and was considering trading back again because he thought maybe he could still get Brown a few picks later (the Chargers were reportedly considering Brown with the next pick). After the draft, Kubiak talked about how nerve-wracking that was. He just wanted to draft the guy and get it over with and it was bad enough with Smith trading back once. BUT... he's not the guy determining who they want to draft. Was Duane Brown a Gibbs call? Yeah. But it was still Smith working the draft and figuring out where they could get Duane and maximize their other options.

Texian
09-05-2013, 01:59 PM
I think you're creating a strawman. I don't know of anyone who has said that Smith has complete, full, and total control. There are a few that's what started this conversation.

I don't think anyone has complete, full, and total control in this FO.Bob McNair does and Kubiak has FINAL say on 53 man roster (players). Believe it or not, there is a chain of command. I don't think it works that way. I see this FO as a collaboration. Everyone has a job and the whole thing is, as Rick Smith has said, a process.

With Ahman Green, same thing. The Texans needed a running back, Mike Sherman had personal experience with Ahman and said he was great and still had tread on his tires. I don't think there was a lot of push-back from either Smith or Kubiak because I think they were both on-board with the call. I don't see that as Sherman and/or Kubiak making the decision and ordering Smith to make it happen. That's what happen but ordered might be a bit strong

During the draft process, I believe the team identifies the areas they want to focus on. Rick gets a list of the types of players the coaching staff wants and is looking for then he and his scouts come back with options. Then the coordinators and position coaches respond with the guys they think best fit their system and the guys they really want to have.Pretty Much, unlike GB and BAL were GM & Scouts do most of the heavy lifting and unlike Jerah and Al were it is/was a 1 man show.

Did Frank Bush get his guy? Yeah. But that wasn't because that pick was "given" to Frank Bush. If things had played out differently, Smith would have gone another route.

In the draft room, Smith has a lot of control. He's the one making the trades. He's the one figuring out if they can get their guy later or if they have to move up to get him. Or if there's a bunch of guys so someone will drop to them.

If you recall the Duane Brown draft, Smith traded back and was considering trading back again because he thought maybe he could still get Brown a few picks later (the Chargers were reportedly considering Brown with the next pick). After the draft, Kubiak talked about how nerve-wracking that was. He just wanted to draft the guy and get it over with and it was bad enough with Smith trading back once. BUT... he's not the guy determining who they want to draft. Was Duane Brown a Gibbs call? Yeah. But it was still Smith working the draft and figuring out where they could get Duane and maximize their other options.

You get no argument from me about Smith working the phones and orchestrating the draft room. We're also in agreement with Duane Brown getting drafted. Gibbs wanted him at 18 and it was Rick Smith who said we could get him later. Now, who is responsible for passing on Flacco? :)

dream_team
09-05-2013, 02:40 PM
You get no argument from me about Smith working the phones and orchestrating the draft room. We're also in agreement with Duane Brown getting drafted. Gibbs wanted him at 18 and it was Rick Smith who said we could get him later. Now, who is responsible for passing on Flacco? :)

I think the point alot of people in here are making is that each pick is a collaborative effort, no one guy picked a specific player. You make it sound like Gibbs wanted Duane, thus he deserves all of the credit. Nope... Kubiak has to buy off on the pick, so does Rick. None of us really knows anything unless you were in the draft war room.

Texian
09-05-2013, 03:59 PM
I think the point alot of people in here are making is that each pick is a collaborative effort, no one guy picked a specific player. You make it sound like Gibbs wanted Duane, thus he deserves all of the credit. Nope... Kubiak has to buy off on the pick, so does Rick. None of us really knows anything unless you were in the draft war room.

I make it sound like....glad it's coming through loud and clear....my position hasn't changed.....Gibbs wanted Brown, Bush wanted Cushing, Wade wanted Watt & Mercilus.

Just to be clear IMHO, Kubiak signed off on Gibbs, Bush & Wade's picks and Smith made it happened.

Kubiak was so happy to get Gibbs as a coach. Kubiak couldn't believe his good luck. Gibbs called Kubiak about a job and Kubiak promised him anything he needed to get the run game turned around. Steve Slaton is another player that was hand picked by Gibbs. In 09' the D was so bad Kubiak was happy to give Frank whatever Frank thought he needed...(How many times have you heard Kubiak say that)...Kubiak was carrying out McNair's promises to Wade to become DC. The collaborated effort is Kubiak gives his coaches the leeway to make the important decisions and it's Smith's job to make it all happen. If you think about it for a moment, that is DEFINITELY Kubiak's style.

infantrycak
09-05-2013, 04:15 PM
In 09' the D was so bad Kubiak was happy to give Frank whatever Frank thought he needed...

The 2009 D was the best one the Texans had until Wade got here (you could argue 2004).

gafftop
10-06-2013, 06:03 PM
Have not read all posts but I disagree with title.

Maybe he has gotten the minor/small decisions correct but he has missed on the ones that determine greatness.
1. Gk is still here.
2. Ms was extended
3. I still say not trading Mario was big because with the money saved would have kept us out of salary cap HELL.

Just my opinion.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 06:20 PM
3. I still say not trading Mario was big because with the money saved would have kept us out of salary cap HELL.

Just my opinion.

We didn't get to cap hell until after Mario was gone.

gafftop
10-06-2013, 06:27 PM
We didn't get to cap hell until after Mario was gone.

If we had trade Mario we would have had millions to use to lessen the cap hell.

Do you think Smith is a good GM?

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 06:53 PM
If we had trade Mario we would have had millions to use to lessen the cap hell.

Do you think Smith is a good GM?

Help me understand. The first year of cap hell was the first year we didn't have Mario.

We didn't sign Mario, cut Winston, didn't sign Briesel, traded Demeco.... Mario's millions had nothing to do with it. The last year of Mario, we were pretty good cap wise.

I think Rick Smith is a GM that does what he's told. "These are the players we want, make it happen." I think he & the scouting department have done a good job of keeping the talent on this team fresh. I think he's been good at reinforcing the company line.

Yes, he's a good GM. Not in the vein of the dude in Greenbay, or Baltimore, or Indy. He's not that kind of GM.

gafftop
10-06-2013, 07:02 PM
Help me understand. The first year of cap hell was the first year we didn't have Mario.

We didn't sign Mario, cut Winston, didn't sign Briesel, traded Demeco.... Mario's millions had nothing to do with it. The last year of Mario, we were pretty good cap wise.

I think Rick Smith is a GM that does what he's told. "These are the players we want, make it happen." I think he & the scouting department have done a good job of keeping the talent on this team fresh. I think he's been good at reinforcing the company line.

Yes, he's a good GM. Not in the vein of the dude in Greenbay, or Baltimore, or Indy. He's not that kind of GM.

You make the trade before the season starts and you free up cap money immediately and use that to redo contracts.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 07:10 PM
You make the trade before the season starts and you free up cap money immediately and use that to redo contracts.

I'm not seeing how that would have helped us for 2010. None of the Mario money would have been available to help us then. Trading him before 2009, whose contract would you have redone & how would that have helped us in 2010 when we lost most of our talent due to the cap?

They were wrong, bottom line. They thought the cap was going to increase significantly for 2010. They probably would have made Mario an offer then, we'd have kept Winston (which I wouldn't have liked at $5M regardless of the cap) we probably would have kept Dressen.

I don't see how trading Mario in 2009 would have helped that. I'm not being argumentative, I truly would like to understand what you're thinking.

gafftop
10-06-2013, 07:16 PM
I'm not seeing how that would have helped us for 2010. None of the Mario money would have been available to help us then. Trading him before 2009, whose contract would you have redone & how would that have helped us in 2010 when we lost most of our talent due to the cap?

They were wrong, bottom line. They thought the cap was going to increase significantly for 2010. They probably would have made Mario an offer then, we'd have kept Winston (which I wouldn't have liked at $5M regardless of the cap) we probably would have kept Dressen.

I don't see how trading Mario in 2009 would have helped that. I'm not being argumentative, I truly would like to understand what you're thinking.

It would not have made us any better in the year we made the trade.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-06-2013, 07:47 PM
Schaub and Bullock offset any good Rick Smith has done.

ATXtexanfan
10-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Schaub and Bullock offset any good Rick Smith has done.

Hard to argue

Texian
10-06-2013, 08:24 PM
Schaub and Bullock offset any good Rick Smith has done.

Hard to argue

Same year Ravens AKA Ozzie sign Justin Tucker as an UDFA, Smubiak feels compelled to use a 5th RD for Bullock.

gafftop
10-20-2013, 09:16 PM
I think the GM is the reason we are in as poor a shape as we are. I think as time goes on people will finally begin to realize that our GM is not all that smart.
Just my opinion

hradhak
10-20-2013, 09:20 PM
I have been disppointed with Rick Smith's free agent signings. JJo has been less than stellar the last 2 years than his first year. Other than that, his free agent signings have bothered me.

We have done pretty well in the draft since then IMO.