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Ktexan68
03-09-2013, 09:02 PM
To be in such a horrible salary cap situation? Did Rick completely crap the bed on this one? It's not like we've won multiple super bowls yet we can't add anyone of note and we'll be extremely lucky to not lose more important players.

:toropalm:

TexanSam
03-09-2013, 09:07 PM
Having to sign JoJo and Manning was a big part of it. It's not as if we're in huge trouble salary cap wise. You can't always expect to have $20 million in space each season.

Hagar
03-09-2013, 09:59 PM
Both good and bad teams get into this problem. I mean the Steelers just cut Harrison because of his salary cap number. While he's slowed down some, Harrison is still a productive player. Its just part of the game.

beerlover
03-09-2013, 10:12 PM
Specifically, Texans inked Brown, Foster & Schaub long term. Questions?

Playoffs
03-09-2013, 10:13 PM
Our owner spends too much! :pissed:

Had the Texans blown the capless guidlines like the Redskins & Cowboys did, I'd be first in line to complain. But we only pressed hard against it ..... and got the two best seasons in franchise history.

Now the cap is virtually flatlined and teams with the spendiest owners are up against it and having to renegotiate like madmen & release some household names. Sucks, but it's the new normal.

TexanBacker93
03-09-2013, 10:23 PM
Having to sign JoJo and Manning was a big part of it. It's not as if we're in huge trouble salary cap wise. You can't always expect to have $20 million in space each season.

Not around here. The Texans must have All-Pros at every position, win the Super Bowl every season, and have $20 million free every season to sign whatever big name is available.

The Texans have very little dead money right now. This is compared to yearly issues with Casserly. We have some good players making very good money which hurts, but it's better than having horrible players making that money.

The only real bad contract we have right now is Schaub. Was it premature to sign him to an extension? In hindsight, yeah. Remember that he was having his best season before the injury. He might have been telling the Texans that he wanted an extension in place before the end of the season or he was going to explore other options. There are no other QBs available right now that can step in and do as well as he has done. I think there are better QBs out there, a lot of them, but they aren't available. Had they waited, based on the struggles he had at the end of the season, they'd probably have been able to keep him for less than they signed him for. What if (I hate it, too, but you have to remember the Texans were looking at this in week 1) Schaub didn't struggle down the stretch and he pulled a Flacco? How many QB desperate teams would have jumped at him? The Texans were in a tough spot with him. QB is the most important position and a team that wants to win the Lombardi trophy needs to have a good signal caller.

As for all the pissing and moaning about Winston's release, DeMeco's trade, the inability to resign Brisiel I say look around the league every March. The Steelers just released Harrison. Yeah, he's been hurt, but he's still a former Defensive player of the year and on his worst day is better than Winston. Good teams let go of good players. They're good because they have good players that other teams want. When you lose a good player someone else will take him.

Do we want the days of Casserly when our cut players finished their degrees and got jobs like ours?

We can't keep every player. We can't bring in the top free agents every year. Name me the last Super Bowl winner to feature a guy that was signed away from another team as a top tier free agent? The Saints with Brees? He wasn't exactly a hot commodity after leaving San Diego with an injured shoulder.

Build through the draft. Find guys that can take over for leaving players (Mercilus for Barwin maybe) and put the money towards the players that you don't find in every draft (Andre, Watt). To stay successful over a long period of time you have to make a few tough decisions every year. Heck, the Patriots have gotten rid of pretty good players every year and it doesn't seem to faze them. Of course, they haven't won a Super Bowl in 10 years so maybe it has fazed them. Still, they are one of the top 4 or 5 teams every year by plugging in the next man up.

I don't think Smith has been perfect. We've missed on a few picks, but I'm happy that we're not having to cut players to get under the cap each year (yeah I'm looking at you Washington). I do think fans here play too much Madden and don't have a realistic understanding of what it reallly takes to run a team. I know I'm no expert, but I at least can see that we are in much better shape with Smith than most of the teams are with their GMs.

dc_txtech
03-09-2013, 10:27 PM
The answer to the OP's question is that we drafted too well and we added good FA pickups. The teams with a lot of cap space have that space because they don't have any good players to spend their money on (Bills, Browns, Jaguars, etc.)

texan279
03-09-2013, 10:47 PM
Paul Kuharsky has a plan.....

"Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly."



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

GP
03-09-2013, 11:08 PM
What the hell did we do?

We threw caution to the wind in the early part of the off-season in 2011 and finally purchased DECENT talent in J-Jo and Manning, for starters. That takes money, my friend. And that means eating up some cap space.

We've got AJ under contract, too, so there's some cap hit right there.

We gave Owen Daniels more money. That's less cap space to work with.

Duane Brown, Chris Myers, Arian Foster. All those guys got new deals.

How about Matt Schaub's new deal? More money, less cap space.

Who do you not pay? Do you not pay J-Jo...or Manning...or AJ...OD...Duane...Chris...Arian...Matt...which guy do you not pay?

We're no different than any other team. The teams with the best cap space will soon find themselves in the same position as us one day--Either having to shed salary because they overpaid a role player or two, OR because they have too many role players who started playing like superstars and they now want superstar money all of a sudden.

But hey, by all means...let's ***** about the GM finally being given the green light by the owner to go out and spend the cap space we DID have. Remember those days, those days when we knew we had cap space but we never spent it? Yeah, well we finally took a step forward in 2011 and it bought us two AFC South divisions and two divisional round playoff appearances. Not too shabby.

I don't understand the constant hand-wringing about the cap space here. We used to have plenty of space, but never did anything with it. Result? Scrubs at every position not manned by Mario and AJ. Now we have little cap room, but we have two AFC South division titles and two divisional round appearances...and suddenly Rick **** the bed on the cap.

LOL. Wonderful off-season conversations, as always.

GP
03-09-2013, 11:12 PM
The answer to the OP's question is that we drafted too well and we added good FA pickups. The teams with a lot of cap space have that space because they don't have any good players to spend their money on (Bills, Browns, Jaguars, etc.)

I should have read through the thread first, I would have chosen to quote you and then say "This ^^^^."

Norg
03-10-2013, 01:16 AM
i think we were supposed to win the SB around 2011 and 2012 now we are kinda in a cap funk because we didnt win it

Big Valley
03-10-2013, 03:27 AM
Paul Kuharsky has a plan.....

"Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly."



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

Execute.:logo::trophy:

TexanSam
03-10-2013, 03:45 AM
Paul Kuharsky has a plan.....

"Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly."



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

That's an awful plan. Restructuring that much just means we'd be adding enormous amounts of salary in the future. Brian Cushing's contract is up next year. JJ Watt's contract is up the year after. The Texans are going to have to re-sign them, and restructuring current deals would make those signings very hard to pull off.

Bulls on Parade
03-10-2013, 06:43 AM
Paul Kuharsky has a plan.....

"Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly."



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans
He makes a lot of good points. I'm still strongly against drafting a wide receiver. The help we need at the number two position opposite of Andre Johnson can only come through free agency. We need to sign an impact guy right away like Mike Wallace. The Dolphins and Vikings are already hot in pursuit when it should be us finding a way to make that big splash. You can also restructure the deals of Matt Schaub and Arian Foster to create even more cap space.

We're not going to find that instant help at wide receiver in the draft. We already have tons of inconsistent young guys on the roster. It's going to take two or three years before we know if that rookie wideout is a legitimate pro bowler. By then Andre Johnson will no longer be a dominating number one. Our window to win a Super Bowl with Andre still being an elite player is 2013, 2014 and maybe 2015. We're talking about three more seasons starting now.

I'm all for doing what it takes to win "right now".

thunderkyss
03-10-2013, 06:45 AM
I like to pick on Rick Smith, but the truth is this is not a bad situation to be in. This is "normal" in the cap era. Teams like the Patriots don't look bad, because they really don't have any players to speak of either. They paid Tom Brady, but that's about it. Wes Welker is twiddling his thumbs waiting to see what they're going to do. FA starts in 2 days.

They get a lot out of their QB, he seems to make everyone else look better. Our players make our QB look better..... more or less. If Arian & the OL ain't doing their thing, he struggles (or it seems as much lately), If Andre isn't Andre, Matt struggles when Walter, OD, Casey, or Arian have the drops (but who wouldn't?).

We're fine, we've got options. Why Smith hasn't acted on them yet is a matter of opinion, but we're not near as bad as we make it seem.

Bulls on Parade
03-10-2013, 06:49 AM
That's an awful plan. Restructuring that much just means we'd be adding enormous amounts of salary in the future. Brian Cushing's contract is up next year. JJ Watt's contract is up the year after. The Texans are going to have to re-sign them, and restructuring current deals would make those signings very hard to pull off.
That's the sacrifice we have to make to win a Super Bowl while we still have aging franchise icons like Andre Johnson. So what if we're in cap hell when the 2016 regular season rolls around? By then we're going to be in the market for a new number one wide receiver, tight end, quarterback, likely our entire secondary and several other key positions.

Arian Foster will probably be washed up by then given how many carries he's taking as well. We need to win that Lombardi in February of 2014, 2015 and 2016 (part of the 2015 season).

Our window of opportunity to win the Super Bowl is right now. Let's get it done while we can. We had some excellent teams in 2011 and 2012 but it wasn't good enough. But we can't sit here complaining about the salary cap and the future repercussions, while teams like the Patriots, Ravens and Broncos are loading up for the 2013 season.

Brisco_County
03-10-2013, 07:00 AM
All good teams have this problem. The 49er's don't right now, but they will when contracts start expiring.

thunderkyss
03-10-2013, 07:47 AM
All good teams have this problem. The 49er's don't right now, but they will when contracts start expiring.

I don't know how they managed to draft so many good players on both sides of the ball.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Forget restructuring AJs deal. They've already done that in 2011 & 2012. His cap number will be so high in 2015 that the Texans will be forced to cut him. They could redo JoJo's deal, but they have to be sure his performance won't slip in the future. Risky for a CB who will turn 30 prior to the 2014 season.

Something needs to be done with Walter. An outright cut leaves the team with a big fat collection of nothing at #2 WR. They better be able to use that cap savings from Walter to get a vet WR. I would rather ask him for a salary reduction (as they did last year), and save $1.5mil rather than $2.5 million on the cap.

Releasing Wade Smith frees up $3 million. He's really not Pro Bowl caliber, but the Texans have questions at RG & RT already. Do they really want to create another hole on the o-line?

The real key to the Texans cap is deciding what to do with Antonio Smith. He's in the last year of his deal with $6 million in salary. Give Smith that $6million (and more) up front and extend him through 2015, and the Texans could get some cap relief. But, they would be tied to a 30 something d-lineman for 3 years. Can the Texans cobble together a DE from a returning Tim Jamison, a 2nd year Jared Crick, and a draft choice? If the answer is yes, that would be a $6million savings.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 11:07 AM
Did i miss something, why in the hell did this thread pop up out of the blue ?

There are a lot of things the front office can do so the team can stay competitive and even get better. Biggest key is the draft, which we have done quite well on.

All we can do as fans is sit back and watch, i have faith Smith and Co will make the right choices.

And even if they DONT i am still a texans fan so what can i do ? Not a damn thing. So chilax everyone :)

Goldensilence
03-10-2013, 11:15 AM
Simply put, they had to lock up some premier players at key spots the last few years.

I totally support the Foster and Brown extension. Those were no brainers. Still not sure about Schaub's extension, but the team backed themselves into it. They really don't have anything behind Matt and I didn't see them making a move via FA or trade for an upgrade. For better or worse this team hitched itself to Matt Schaub at QB. OD lived up to his contract this year which was a big relief for me.

IMO cutting Walter should give some cap relief, I just don't see the point of keeping him on board whether he's a vet or not. His pay this year just isn't likely to be anywhere near the production you expect from having a #2 WR. Not saying I am sold on anyone behind him, but realistically we'd likely be getting the same production for way less. I'm also a fan of WR in the first fwiw.

b0ng
03-10-2013, 11:22 AM
The salary cap not raising any nominal amount of money (the last two years) is also a significant reason.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 11:29 AM
His pay this year just isn't likely to be anywhere near the production you expect from having a #2 WR. Not saying I am sold on anyone behind him, but realistically we'd likely be getting the same production for way less. I'm also a fan of WR in the first fwiw.
Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?

Goldensilence
03-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?

If they can get KW to agree to another salary cut that'd be a win-win for both sides. They might be able to get him to do that again. I did admit we don't have much behind him at this point and that is worrisome, but the bigger problem I have is he's not producing light years above them. The WRs corps as a whole outside of AJ has been bothersome.

I did see some flashes from Posey late last season, but that Achilles is going to be a setback that I am hoping doesn't linger.

There are veteran solutions out there, but I am just not sure the yare in the mold the Texans would want like Chad Johnson. We also picked KW out from the Bengals bench for a 7th...so there's that route.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 11:58 AM
Did i miss something, why in the hell did this thread pop up out of the blue ?

There are a lot of things the front office can do so the team can stay competitive and even get better. Biggest key is the draft, which we have done quite well on.

All we can do as fans is sit back and watch, i have faith Smith and Co will make the right choices.

And even if they DONT i am still a texans fan so what can i do ? Not a damn thing. So chilax everyone :)

^^^^
This

Except I dont have the faith that you do in BoB/Rick/Gary. But there's nothing we can do about it.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 12:19 PM
Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?

I would cut A.Smith and probably W.Smith. And Probably R.Smith kinda like they did with the Browns (Kris/Chris) LOL

Seriously, I would cut Wade/A. Smith and Walter. With that Savings I would try to sign Levitre in FA and a cheap vet like Danario Alexander/Riley Cooper type WR. Then draft Datone Jones in the 1st and Ryan Swope in the 2nd.

Then start filling needs at NT/RT/LB in the 3rd rd. There's great value in the 3rd rd this yr. I would try to get three 3rd's to fill holes. Using the Texans 3rd,the comp pick and using a 4/5 and 6th (They should have 2 extra 6th rd comp picks) to trade back into the 3rd rd. That should alow the Texans to be able to fill most of the holes with quality players.

BoB/Rick/Gary wont do this because he's too conservative and would rather keep his own players, rather than taking a chance on guys in FA. If he doesn't take a few risks the Colts will be passing the Texans up soon in the AFC South standings. The Colts some how managed to get their QB (Luck) and have 44 mil in cap space. The Texans ? Oh well as fans there's nothing we can do. The Texans are run the way they are, and that's not going to change any time soon.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 12:40 PM
^^^^
This

Except I dont have the faith that you do in BoB/Rick/Gary. But there's nothing we can do about it.

HAHA yeah i am kind of iffy on it sometimes, but when i sit back and look at the last 5 drafts, Free Agency IMO they havent done to bad. Biggest mistake i see is their opinion/loyalty to Schaub.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 01:13 PM
We also picked KW out from the Bengals bench for a 7th...so there's that route.
I don't know about RFAs. There's Danario Alexander, but the Chargers will match any reasonable offer. I don't want to say there's zip out there in free agency. The question is, would Kubiak rather have one of these guys than Walter? Some guys that fit the WCO WR profile and would come cheap:

Mohamed Massaquoi - Has never played with a decent QB. Finished 2012 on IR.
Derek Hagan - JAG who has been hanging around the league.
Kevin Ogletree - Had some decent games for Dallas.
Austin Collie - Had some decent years with Peyton and the Colts. Missed most of 2012 with a knee injury.
Michael Jenkins - Big possession receiver who would likely get close to the vet minimum.
Ramses Barden - Been in the league 4 years with a total of 29 receptions.
David Nelson - Another guy coming off a knee injury. Had a pretty good 2011 season in Buffalo.

So you get one of these guys for around $1 million in 2013. Add in the Walter dead money, and that's $3 million. Or, get Walter to reduce his salary to $2 million and put his cap hit at $3miilion (which it was in 2012)? What would you do? I think I know what Kubiak would do, and that's keep Walter.


Seriously, I would cut Wade/A. Smith and Walter. With that Savings I would try to sign Levitre in FA and a cheap vet like Danario Alexander/Riley Cooper type WR. Then draft Datone Jones in the 1st and Ryan Swope in the 2nd.
You would spend a lot more money signing Levitre than keeping Wade Smith. Alexander won't be that cheap (to keep the Chargers from matching) and Cooper is under contract.

Wolf
03-10-2013, 01:18 PM
One name that has popped up is Julian Edelman

TheRealJoker
03-10-2013, 01:37 PM
They simply don't have the cap money to make big moves this year because they dealt out extensions to Duane Brown, Chris Meyers, ARIAN FOSTER, and Matt Schaub last offseason. Not to mention they have Cushing up in a contract year next season and JJ Watt will surely want to renegotiate his deal if he performs anywhere near as well as he did last season.

Keeping your best players costs money. If we can somehow get GQ back in the fold i'll be happy.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 01:42 PM
One name that has popped up is Julian Edelman
He's coming off another injury prone season, and won't come that cheap. I like him a lot (slot WR, returner, special teams coverage). But, the Pats will want him back if they can't re-sign Welker. And they have more cap room.

Goldensilence
03-10-2013, 02:59 PM
I don't know about RFAs. There's Danario Alexander, but the Chargers will match any reasonable offer. I don't want to say there's zip out there in free agency. The question is, would Kubiak rather have one of these guys than Walter? Some guys that fit the WCO WR profile and would come cheap:

Mohamed Massaquoi - Has never played with a decent QB. Finished 2012 on IR.
Derek Hagan - JAG who has been hanging around the league.
Kevin Ogletree - Had some decent games for Dallas.
Austin Collie - Had some decent years with Peyton and the Colts. Missed most of 2012 with a knee injury.
Michael Jenkins - Big possession receiver who would likely get close to the vet minimum.
Ramses Barden - Been in the league 4 years with a total of 29 receptions.
David Nelson - Another guy coming off a knee injury. Had a pretty good 2011 season in Buffalo.

So you get one of these guys for around $1 million in 2013. Add in the Walter dead money, and that's $3 million. Or, get Walter to reduce his salary to $2 million and put his cap hit at $3miilion (which it was in 2012)? What would you do? I think I know what Kubiak would do, and that's keep Walter.

Louis Murphy is available and will likely come cheap.

Brandon Tate from Cinci is available and was pretty well regarded when he was drafted out of NC.

Devery Henderson wouldn't be a bad pick up from NO either.

Steve Smith would be available too from STL.

Thought I saw Steve Breaston from AZ would be available too.

Of these I'd love to take a look at Murphy. I do think the most likely scenario is asking Walter to take a paycut again and hope one of the other young WRs can step up and be more productive to put KW as the third.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 04:06 PM
Of these I'd love to take a look at Murphy. I do think the most likely scenario is asking Walter to take a paycut again and hope one of the other young WRs can step up and be more productive to put KW as the third.

Murphy is OK. But has he ever had a season where he was more productive than Walter? Nope. Why would he become more productive now?

badboy
03-10-2013, 05:13 PM
To be in such a horrible salary cap situation? Did Rick completely crap the bed on this one? It's not like we've won multiple super bowls yet we can't add anyone of note and we'll be extremely lucky to not lose more important players.

:toropalm:I apologize upfront for sounding rude but you seem ignorant (lack of knowledge) of NFL salary cap. Texans have gone from being apprx. $20 million over 2012 cap to apprx. $8 million under now. Kuharski's suggestions have been discussed at length for months on this MB and you can get some input by reading Dutchrudder's thread. We are in a good situation cap wise imo and have an outstanding mix of long term vets/younger guys.
As others have pointed out, IF and that is a big if, free agents are identified Ric Smith wants, players can be restructured to recapture money for them. Money isn't the problem, spending wisely to get biggest bang for the buck is. Huge contracts are risky even with our own players such as Schaub, AJ and Antonio Smith due to player age; however, the first two (criticize them or not) were two of top team players when contracted. Smith is young enough to get another restructure and play 2-3 more seasons.

Let's say we go after a WR like Wallace and he just doesn't work out, the MBs and talk show would explode & rightfully so. Smith proved he would spend McNair's $ when he went after Manning and Joseph then wrapped up AJ, Schaub, Foster and Duane Brown with great contracts. The last two could restructure in 2014 to capture Cushing.

Question is not can we spend but how we spend.

thunderkyss
03-10-2013, 08:00 PM
We've been spoiled.

Since 1994, the salary cap increased significantly year after year, until the end of the last CBA. I don't recall the terms used, or the exact reasoning, but there was a reason the 2011 salary cap was set below the 2009 salary cap. 2012's cap will be roughly equal to the 2009 cap.

I'd expect the cap will continue to increase, but no where near the rate at which it grew pre-2010.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 08:12 PM
You would spend a lot more money signing Levitre than keeping Wade Smith. Alexander won't be that cheap (to keep the Chargers from matching) and Cooper is under contract.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't have to be Alexander, I meant that type of WR. Ramses-Barden/Hixon type woud do.

Cutting A.Smith and W.Smith would save about 9 mil. I'm not a cap guy so I'm probably wrong. With those cuts you should be able to sign Levitre and draft Jones to replace A.Smith.

GP
03-10-2013, 08:17 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong on the following, this is just more ramblings and musings than anything else:

The new CBA was geared toward making all rookie contracts expire after 4 years. The rookies are now slotted in terms of their first rookie deal; how much they earn...which has wiped out the huge-ass deals the 1st round rookies used to receive (in short: players cannot as easily "retire" after being awful for their first couple of years).

In addition, the cap has not been raised to higher levels than anticipated.

So we've got less money being spent on rookie contracts, which last for three more years after their initial rookie year expires.

Then you've got a less-than-stellar cap ceiling to work with, which SHOULD seem to be OK since rookie deals are lower in price and standard in length (4 years).

So what's causing the pinch for so many teams? Could it take about 3 years from now for free agent contracts to normalize a bit...essentially lowering the FA contract amounts because the rookie deals were lower, to begin with, so that should theoretically mean that that player's first FA contract would be relative to what they HAD been making the previous four seasons under the new CBA's slotted salary system.

I'm just trying to figure out how teams are expected to handle success on a long-term basis if the cap figures do not keep in-step with "inflation" of each year's new Mega Deals that then make other players' deals jump accordingly.

Hope that makes sense, ya' know what I'm saying? There has to be some sort of logical explanation as to where things WERE and where things are HEADED. Otherwise, what was the point of the new CBA's attempt to reign in rookie contracts but then to have a low cap ceiling each year that isn't growing proportionally with each new round of Free Agents???

TexansSeminole
03-10-2013, 08:21 PM
I like the idea of getting a guy like Early Doucet if we can't get Walter to restructure. Even if we get a WR in round 1, we need people to upgrade that entire group.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 08:26 PM
I apologize upfront for sounding rude but you seem ignorant (lack of knowledge) of NFL salary cap. Texans have gone from being apprx. $20 million over 2012 cap to apprx. $8 million under now. Kuharski's suggestions have been discussed at length for months on this MB and you can get some input by reading Dutchrudder's thread. We are in a good situation cap wise imo and have an outstanding mix of long term vets/younger guys.
As others have pointed out, IF and that is a big if, free agents are identified Ric Smith wants, players can be restructured to recapture money for them. Money isn't the problem, spending wisely to get biggest bang for the buck is. Huge contracts are risky even with our own players such as Schaub, AJ and Antonio Smith due to player age; however, the first two (criticize them or not) were two of top team players when contracted. Smith is young enough to get another restructure and play 2-3 more seasons.

Let's say we go after a WR like Wallace and he just doesn't work out, the MBs and talk show would explode & rightfully so. Smith proved he would spend McNair's $ when he went after Manning and Joseph then wrapped up AJ, Schaub, Foster and Duane Brown with great contracts. The last two could restructure in 2014 to capture Cushing.

Question is not can we spend but how we spend.

Ummm, the only reason BoB allowed Rick to sign JoJo and Manning was the defense was historically bad and the Texans were about to lose a large contingent of their loyal fanbase. (Thanks Wade for identifying JoJo/Manning and drafting Watt) They made the playoffs for the 1st time after these FA aquisitions. Coincedince, I think not.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 09:32 PM
We've been spoiled.

Since 1994, the salary cap increased significantly year after year, until the end of the last CBA. I don't recall the terms used, or the exact reasoning, but there was a reason the 2011 salary cap was set below the 2009 salary cap. 2012's cap will be roughly equal to the 2009 cap.

I'd expect the cap will continue to increase, but no where near the rate at which it grew pre-2010.

No Sir, its the players who are spoiled ! You think most of us as fans think that they should make half of what they make ? Hell no, but it is this generations and up coming (College athletes) who are spoiled by the big $$$. Once you give it, its hard to take away.

TexanSam
03-10-2013, 09:57 PM
No Sir, its the players who are spoiled ! You think most of us as fans think that they should make half of what they make ? Hell no, but it is this generations and up coming (College athletes) who are spoiled by the big $$$. Once you give it, its hard to take away.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's the athletes fault that teams are getting into cap trouble because they want more money? The NFL is bringing in billions of dollars due to it's TV deals. Naturally, the more money the league makes the more money the athletes make. That's business.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 10:15 PM
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's the athletes fault that teams are getting into cap trouble because they want more money? The NFL is bringing in billions of dollars due to it's TV deals. Naturally, the more money the league makes the more money the athletes make. That's business.

I replied to a guy who says "we" are spoiled. It is apparent that it is not us who is spoiled is my point. Did u even read the message i replied to ?

And i dont give a damn, i work for a multi billion dollar company, who has a vast and great portfolio. If what you preach is common wealth then we all should get a big cut out of what our companies make. And as you know we dont, so how is it any different for a man who works 100 hours a week for 70K a year while the company he works for profits 100 of billions of dollars, does that guy who breaks his back make more if the company makes more ??

Hell no

So yeah these athletes are spoiled. Some of us live in the real world, it shouldnt only apply to athletes. Just because the NFL makes more they should haha come on think about that.

TexanSam
03-10-2013, 10:24 PM
I replied to a guy who says "we" are spoiled. It is apparent that it is not us who is spoiled is my point. Did u even read the message i replied to ?

And i dont give a damn, i work for a multi billion dollar company, who has a vast and great portfolio. If what you preach is common wealth then we all should get a big cut out of what our companies make. And as you know we dont, so how is it any different for a man who works 100 hours a week for 70K a year while the company he works for profits 100 of billions of dollars, does that guy who breaks his back make more if the company makes more ??

Hell no

So yeah these athletes are spoiled. Some of us live in the real world, it shouldnt only apply to athletes. Just because the NFL makes more they should haha come on think about that.

I'm all for the players making more money as the owners make more. Spoiled or not, I'd rather see the people out there playing the game making huge dollars instead a group of 32 men who sit in a suite. I do wish the real world worked like that, but I'm not going to discuss that in a football related thread.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 10:37 PM
I'm all for the players making more money as the owners make more. Spoiled or not, I'd rather see the people out there playing the game making huge dollars instead a group of 32 men who sit in a suite. I do wish the real world worked like that, but I'm not going to discuss that in a football related thread.

Well you you brought it up, if the NFL makes more money from TV revenues and ticket sales then why shouldnt the players ? Oh speaking of your comment shouldnt stadium employees make more money since the NFL and the players do ???

Stadium employees often work for minimum wage serving NFL fans beer, cola and food. Other employees work as volunteers to support their high school sports teams or their cheerleading team. In stand vendors work for a commission and tips, they do not receive a salary like many people may think. The in stand vendors make good money, but it is all depending on their blood, sweat and tears and of course your tips. Scalpers make money buying and selling NFL tickets and even some homeless people make money playing music after NFL games. Many people will lose a ton of money if the NFL does not get their act together.

http://voices.yahoo.com/why-florida-needs-nfl-open-stadiums-and-8797059.html

This one example i can show you a lot more if you'd like.

TexanSam
03-10-2013, 10:41 PM
Well you you brought it up, if the NFL makes more money from TV revenues and ticket sales then why shouldnt the players ? Oh speaking of your comment shouldnt stadium employees make more money since the NFL and the players do ???



http://voices.yahoo.com/why-florida-needs-nfl-open-stadiums-and-8797059.html

This one example i can show you a lot more if you'd like.

The players should earn more as TV revenues and ticket sales go up, as should anyone else employed by the NFL or individual teams.

EllisUnit
03-10-2013, 10:52 PM
The players should earn more as TV revenues and ticket sales go up, as should anyone else employed by the NFL or individual teams.

Well we all know stadium employees do not make more as profits go up, nor do i our pretty much anyone on this message board. So if u do agree then i dont see how you you can write this......

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. It's the athletes fault that teams are getting into cap trouble because they want more money? The NFL is bringing in billions of dollars due to it's TV deals. Naturally, the more money the league makes the more money the athletes make. That's business.

Just saying we all know fair is fair and then NFL players salaries are not fair IF you think that everyone should make more if the buisness makes more. Thats my point

Yankee_In_TX
03-11-2013, 11:16 AM
I don't know how they managed to draft so many good players on both sides of the ball.

..and have 149 draft picks in 2013.

Yankee_In_TX
03-11-2013, 11:20 AM
My $.02:

I also have been concerned. Local sports talk is greatly influencing me, so feel free to talk me off the ledge.

Without losing our FA's, we have managable needs to fill:
-WR
-ILB
-pass rusher
-right O line starter or depth
-nose tackle starter or depth

It is starting to look like after FA, if we were to lose them all (which I doubt):
-WR
-ILB
*OLB
*TE
*FB
*SS
-right O line starter or depth
-nose tackle starter or depth


That second list seems insurmountable, especially considering we are mostly cap broke. That's where the fear/frustration is coming in.

Ktexan68
03-11-2013, 11:52 AM
Always amazing how some people on message boards can be such jerks. I understand the money behind the problem but what pisses me off is how we're in the predicament that you would expect a team that's been to the playoffs many years in a row or that has won a couple SB's. We're in a really bad spot and I'm very worried that we are going to take a step backwards this year.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 11:53 AM
My $.02:

I also have been concerned. Local sports talk is greatly influencing me, so feel free to talk me off the ledge.

Without losing our FA's, we have managable needs to fill:
-WR
-ILB
-pass rusher
-right O line starter or depth
-nose tackle starter or depth

It is starting to look like after FA, if we were to lose them all (which I doubt):
-WR
-ILB
*OLB
*TE
*FB
*SS
-right O line starter or depth
-nose tackle starter or depth


That second list seems insurmountable, especially considering we are mostly cap broke. That's where the fear/frustration is coming in.

The market is flooded with free agents and there is very little money available. The Texans are in very good shape being easily under the cap with no dead money and a lot of guys that can get cut or restructured, if needed. The pain from last year (Winston, Briesel, Ryans) is going to pay off now. Add to our cap health the fact that we have 10 or 11 draft picks this year... things look good.

The Texans are going to let the market price down Quin, Barwin, McCain, Casey, etc... Look at all the hard cuts teams are having to make. I'm feeling very optimistic right now.

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 11:59 AM
Always amazing how some people on message boards can be such jerks. I understand the money behind the problem but what pisses me off is how we're in the predicament that you would expect a team that's been to the playoffs many years in a row or that has won a couple SB's. We're in a really bad spot and I'm very worried that we are going to take a step backwards this year.

If they do take a step back people should have to pay with their jobs. Of course that wont happen, because as BoB said that would be too traumatc.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 12:00 PM
Always amazing how some people on message boards can be such jerks. I understand the money behind the problem but what pisses me off is how we're in the predicament that you would expect a team that's been to the playoffs many years in a row or that has won a couple SB's. .

Or we're in the predicament that you would expect a team with nothing but money to offer players to come to Houston & you end up paying top tier money to second tier players.

I'm not saying that is the case, but there's more than one way to get where we are.

The Patriots & the Ravens have been consistently in the play offs & they are not in the situation we are in.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 12:00 PM
Always amazing how some people on message boards can be such jerks. I understand the money behind the problem but what pisses me off is how we're in the predicament that you would expect a team that's been to the playoffs many years in a row or that has won a couple SB's. We're in a really bad spot and I'm very worried that we are going to take a step backwards this year.

We are in a great spot! Look at what teams are having to do... There are some bad teams with money to spend (Miami, Tampa), but Baltimore, New England, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Dallas, NyJets, Phillie, N.O... are all having to make hard cuts. .. With no restructuring, the Texans are a 12 win team under the cap with extra picks and no dead money...

Antonio Smith, Kevin Walter, Owen Daniels, Wade Smith all can be restructured or cut to save significant cap money... not to mention that Schaub, Joseph, Foster, Myers, and maybe AJ can all restructure to say significant cap room if the team needs something done. Most important, though, is the team is in healthy cap situation moving into next year when Cushing has to get done.

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 12:02 PM
The market is flooded with free agents and there is very little money available. The Texans are in very good shape being easily under the cap with no dead money and a lot of guys that can get cut or restructured, if needed. The pain from last year (Winston, Briesel, Ryans) is going to pay off now. Add to our cap health the fact that we have 10 or 11 draft picks this year... things look good.

The Texans are going to let the market price down Quin, Barwin, McCain, Casey, etc... Look at all the hard cuts teams are having to make. I'm feeling very optimistic right now.

Agreed

You are always optimistic. LOL It's part of Fandom.

76Texan
03-11-2013, 12:03 PM
The market is flooded with free agents and there is very little money available. The Texans are in very good shape being easily under the cap with no dead money and a lot of guys that can get cut or restructured, if needed. The pain from last year (Winston, Briesel, Ryans) is going to pay off now. Add to our cap health the fact that we have 10 or 11 draft picks this year... things look good.

The Texans are going to let the market price down Quin, Barwin, McCain, Casey, etc... Look at all the hard cuts teams are having to make. I'm feeling very optimistic right now.

I agree. Every year, the money pool will begin to dwindle once the top tier FAs got their inflated contracts.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 12:19 PM
Agreed

You are always optimistic. LOL It's part of Fandom.
Steel, I'm human... I was pessimistic as we headed into the playoffs this year. I knew we had no chance to win at New England. Even on gameday, I couldn't trick myself into hopefulness.

But, looking at a group of safeties that include Goldson, Delmas, Landry, Landry, Phillips, Mikell, Sensabaugh, Chung, Charles Woodson, along with Quin... and seeing most of the NFL is up against the cap, I feel great.

Same thing at Tight End! There is a ton of talent at tight end... guys like Delanie Walker and Fasano that could really help our running game.

Heading into this week, Casey and Quin were the two guys I didn't want to lose. Now, I'm not worried.

Also, supposedly Dobbins, McCain, and Bradie James are all drawing some interest by other teams... so, we are setting up this off-season to gain compensatory picks again for 2014. I think Rick Smith is doing one heck of a job! Only injury-riddled seasons will prevent this team from 10 wins or more for the next four or five seasons. So, yeah, I'm feeling great!

Doppelganger
03-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Specifically, Texans inked Brown, Foster & Schaub long term. Questions?

Yup. Throw in the need to ink Cush and Watt next year.

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 07:14 PM
Paul Kuharsky has a plan.....

"Cut wide receiver Kevin Walter, saving $2.5 million in cap space. Restructure the deal of wide receiver Andre Johnson, reducing his base salary from $10.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $7.17 million. Restructure the deal of cornerback Johnathan Joseph, reducing his base salary from $7.5 million to $940,000 (giving him the rest now as a bonus), resulting in a salary-cap savings of $4.373 million. Extend defensive end Antonio Smith, reducing his 2013 base salary of $6 million and his cap charge of $9.5 million significantly."



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

Sure doing these things helps the cap situation today , for this season .... but what about the future impact of those actions.

It inflates the cap figures of each of AJ , JJo and Smith for those future years.

What are you going to do next season ... when you have Cushing hitting free agency or a couple years down the line when JJ Watt reaches FA - He's going to cost big bucks to retain (MW money?)


You can only put off paying guy' (cap hits) for so long .... eventually you have to bite the bullet.

TexanBacker93
03-11-2013, 08:01 PM
Steel, I'm human... I was pessimistic as we headed into the playoffs this year. I knew we had no chance to win at New England. Even on gameday, I couldn't trick myself into hopefulness.

But, looking at a group of safeties that include Goldson, Delmas, Landry, Landry, Phillips, Mikell, Sensabaugh, Chung, Charles Woodson, along with Quin... and seeing most of the NFL is up against the cap, I feel great.

Same thing at Tight End! There is a ton of talent at tight end... guys like Delanie Walker and Fasano that could really help our running game.

Heading into this week, Casey and Quin were the two guys I didn't want to lose. Now, I'm not worried.

Also, supposedly Dobbins, McCain, and Bradie James are all drawing some interest by other teams... so, we are setting up this off-season to gain compensatory picks again for 2014. I think Rick Smith is doing one heck of a job! Only injury-riddled seasons will prevent this team from 10 wins or more for the next four or five seasons. So, yeah, I'm feeling great!

Pittsburgh has lived off Compensatory picks for years. We have enough draft picks to fill holes that we currently have and replace a couple of guys that will leave.

I'd rather not lose Quin, Jones, or Casey, but the only irreplaceable guys are all signed.

TexanBacker93
03-11-2013, 08:07 PM
Yup. Throw in the need to ink Cush and Watt next year.

Watt will just be finishing his 3rd season after next year. Under the new CBA he's signed to a 4 year contract and by the end of the 3rd year the Texans must decide if they will exercise the option for the 5th year.

I know teams can't renegotiate the contracts prior to the end of the 4th year, but what I don't know is if a team can give a player a long term deal after the 4th year rather than go with the 5th year option. In the case of Watt it would cost the team a lot more, but if he's earned it they might want to do it then. As it stands now the 5th year for him would be an average of the 3rd-25th highest paid players at his position.

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 08:25 PM
Pittsburgh has lived off Compensatory picks for years. We have enough draft picks to fill holes that we currently have and replace a couple of guys that will leave.

I'd rather not lose Quin, Jones, or Casey, but the only irreplaceable guys are all signed.

I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 08:52 PM
Sure doing these things helps the cap situation today , for this season .... but what about the future impact of those actions.

It inflates the cap figures of each of AJ , JJo and Smith for those future years.

What are you going to do next season ... when you have Cushing hitting free agency or a couple years down the line when JJ Watt reaches FA - He's going to cost big bucks to retain (MW money?)


You can only put off paying guy' (cap hits) for so long .... eventually you have to bite the bullet.

Heading into next season, we are in great cap shape... Watt is two years out and Cushing is next season... correct. However, large contracts are coming off the books or entering the last year (easy to cut) of a lot of guys:

Antonio Smith
Kevin Walter
Owen Daniels
Wade Smith
Daniel Manning

That group, as is, will count about $28 million against this year's cap. Next year, if allowed to expire or cut (OD, Manning have one more year under contract), the total amount of dead money would be only $3.25 million: that's a net savings of $25 million.

Texan_Bill
03-11-2013, 08:56 PM
I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.

I'm still washing my eyes with bleach for the saftey (and CB) play of the *ahem* "that" Oilers team in Buffalo. :foottap:

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 09:14 PM
Heading into next season, we are in great cap shape... Watt is two years out and Cushing is next season... correct. However, large contracts are coming off the books or entering the last year (easy to cut) of a lot of guys:

Antonio Smith
Kevin Walter
Owen Daniels
Wade Smith
Daniel Manning

That group, as is, will count about $28 million against this year's cap. Next year, if allowed to expire or cut (OD, Manning have one more year under contract), the total amount of dead money would be only $3.25 million: that's a net savings of $25 million.

If the players in the post I quoted from earlier in the thread are restructured , Smith wouldnt be expiring and you still have AJ and Jjo with huge cap figures.

Then you have to replace OD , Manning , Walter and Wade Smith somehow ....

That 25m in savings doesnt seem so great when you consider that those you are talking about cutting have been major contributors to the success of the team tho all would be at the tail end of their careers at that point.

In a perfect world , we'd cut all those players and replace them with early round draft picks on rookie deals .... and still have the majority of that cap space to play with , just isnt likely.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 09:25 PM
[/B]

If the players in the post I quoted from earlier in the thread are restructured , Smith wouldnt be expiring and you still have AJ and Jjo with huge cap figures.

Then you have to replace OD , Manning , Walter and Wade Smith somehow ....

That 25m in savings doesnt seem so great when you consider that those you are talking about cutting have been major contributors to the success of the team tho all would be at the tail end of their careers at that point.

In a perfect world , we'd cut all those players and replace them with early round draft picks on rookie deals .... and still have the majority of that cap space to play with , just isnt likely.

If Smith is restructured it will be an extension (otherwise he'd be a free agent).. In a new deal, the first couple years would be a much smaller cap charge. Also, the Texans do have 10 or 11 draft picks this year. Also, we are getting out from under the biggest chunk of yearly charges on these deals which were done before the last work stoppage when the cap was expected to climb every year, instead of shrinking 10% as it did. Look at the structure of any NFL teams' contracts and you will see similar deals. It's good timing to have OD's deal expire after 2014. He will be cut because he is no longer worth that money or be re-signed at a smaller amount to account for his shrinking value in the market due to age

Uncle Rico
03-11-2013, 09:42 PM
Should have made Schaub earn the new contract, especially coming off injury.

Fosters contract was probably bigger than it needed to be.

dalemurphy
03-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Should have made Schaub earn the new contract, especially coming off injury.

Fosters contract was probably bigger than it needed to be.

Foster deal was classy. They told Arian to play out the 2011 season and he would be rewarded. He was an elite RB for two seasons for the Texans while getting paid like an undrafted free agent (chump change)... It was right for the Texans to reward him handsomely. It's very different than drafting a guy in the 1st round and then negotiating with a guy for his 2nd deal who already has $15 million in the bank. Foster played three seasons had probably failed to earn a total of $1 million and was one play away from the end of his career.

Not only were the Texans being ethical and classy, but NFL players make note of which organizations treat players the right way and which do not. Their generosity will pay off. Besides, I'm sure they can go to Foster and restructure if and when it is necessary.

Uncle Rico
03-11-2013, 10:03 PM
Foster deal was classy. They told Arian to play out the 2011 season and he would be rewarded. He was an elite RB for two seasons for the Texans while getting paid like an undrafted free agent (chump change)... It was right for the Texans to reward him handsomely. It's very different than drafting a guy in the 1st round and then negotiating with a guy for his 2nd deal who already has $15 million in the bank. Foster played three seasons had probably failed to earn a total of $1 million and was one play away from the end of his career.

Not only were the Texans being ethical and classy, but NFL players make note of which organizations treat players the right way and which do not. Their generosity will pay off. Besides, I'm sure they can go to Foster and restructure if and when it is necessary.


C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.

EllisUnit
03-12-2013, 12:28 AM
C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.

Seems like all the players the texans let go now are a high commodity. Think about it real hard, we draft guys like Cushing, Demeco, Watt, KJ, OD, AJ, Reed NONE of these guys are "characters" they are all classy guys that a lot of teams would kill to have.

And we build through the draft so even if a player wanted to come here u think the staff is just like come on in, and replace or future prospect. Get real that isnt how the NFL works

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 10:34 AM
I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.

I want to keep him, but I don't put him as irreplaceable. I don't want to have to find another safety, but I trust Wade and Vance to get the right guy playing well if they need to.

By the right guy I mean someone new to Houston if that's what is needed. There's nobody on the roster that I think can take over.

TexanBacker93
03-12-2013, 10:40 AM
C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.

I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 11:44 AM
I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.

Agree.

I think Foster's contract is in-line.
We had exploited his UDFA contract enough.

deucetx
03-12-2013, 12:09 PM
I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.

Heh, I doubt any are saying anything about running 2000 yards. But he did have a down year in comparison to 2011. Someone made a great post somewhere breaking each game down. Now a lot goes one the line but that wasn't the sole issue with Arian. It was his yards after contact that seemed so different than 2011.

Put it like this...in 2011 Arian had two games he ran for an average of less than 2.0 yards a carry after contact. This includes playoffs.

In 2012 Arian had eleven games he ran for an average of less than 2.0 yards a carry after contact including playoffs. Quite the contrast.

So while he had issues with blocking on one side of our line it also seemed he wasn't getting the YAC he use to either. I think the slipping and falling has been spoken about quite a bit with folks saying he needs some steak in his life lol. Could he have been conserving himself? Who knows. But his averages went up toward the end of the season.

It's why I say you can't always just look at total rushing yards. There is more to it than that. Just like Peterson in comparison. He didn't get his just because of team philosophy. His yards after contact are out the freaking park including one game of a 8.9. Dude is just a beast.

As for the original point of the thread the answer is easy....we won. You win players begin wanting more money because their value increases, teams begin stripping you of players, etc. If anything it speaks on how things have changed here when no one wanted a darn soul from us.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 12:47 PM
The Ravens made some tough choices resting their defensive players for the play-offs.

We talked about the same thing with J Jo.
Too bad, Cushing's ailment needed more than just rest.

deucetx
03-12-2013, 12:58 PM
The Ravens made some tough choices resting their defensive players for the play-offs.

We talked about the same thing with J Jo.
Too bad, Cushing's ailment needed more than just rest.

And with that you hit 10k posts! Heh that's a lot of freaking posting, man!

Also I hope we add a versatile ILB so we don't have to be too dependent on Cushing and wear him out after such a significant injury. It's amazing how much versatility we lacked at the position. Granted if Reed shifts that could change and there are a couple in the draft that seem rather versatile.