PDA

View Full Version : The Matt Schaub Compendium


Texans_Chick
03-07-2013, 01:06 PM
The Matt Schaub Compendium (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2013/03/the-matt-schaub-compendium/)

Basically, my recent blog post is a collection of what is known and unknown about Schaub as he ended 2012.

Contains data. Contains known info. Contains speculation.

Frames the issue, puts the end of 2012 into a larger context.

Think it is fair. Not really interested in neener neener talk about Schaub because I think that is a distraction from just looking at what the knowns and unknowns are. That often pejoratives and tone people use detracts from just talking the football stuff.

It was a hard post to put together but I'm happy that I did. I learned things putting it together, and usually those are the best posts.

thunderkyss
03-07-2013, 01:24 PM
Wow.... lots of info. I like this chart:

http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/files/2013/03/ScreenShot2013-03-05at3.34.40PM.png

Shows Matt was pretty hot in 2009, had a down year in 2010, got hot again for 2011, down again for 2012....... If this is a trend.....

76Texan
03-07-2013, 01:24 PM
You must have spent a lot of time on that piece, TC.

Good job as usual; I enjoyed reading it.
Will have to come back to read it again later.
Thanks.

thunderkyss
03-07-2013, 01:28 PM
They're going to cover Stephanie Stradley's piece in the Chronicle on Matt Radio (610) at 12:45

So they said.

Brisco_County
03-07-2013, 01:29 PM
Great work, Stephanie. This is an excellent resource.

You're spoiling us with stuff like this. Keep it up.

Double Barrel
03-07-2013, 01:52 PM
“He’s got to step up his game when we get on the big stage. There’s no room for mental errors."

McNair really framed it with this quote.

Schaub has the talent, potential, and physical tools needed to win it all.

What will stop him from doing so is between his ears, which is exactly what McNair is talking about.

If you believe Schaub will or will not is subjective. We all have our opinions on it.

But he certainly has the potential to do it, just has to actually do it now.

JimBaker488
03-07-2013, 01:54 PM
Lot of info there, appreciate the effort T_C.

bobbeaux
03-07-2013, 02:22 PM
nice post, steph . . . and it seems very fair to me . . . ;)

Texans_Chick
03-07-2013, 02:38 PM
You must have spent a lot of time on that piece, TC.

Good job as usual; I enjoyed reading it.
Will have to come back to read it again later.
Thanks.

Actually, the thought time about the piece took longer than the actual writing. I had a hard time figuring out how to organize it. Probably was the hardest piece of writing I've done in a few years but I figured it was worth doing. So much of the commentary conflates facts with speculation, and it got really emotional, and so I wanted to separate those things a bit.

We felt that the end of 2012 was weird. And it was weird, not just for the team but for Schaub and for Kubiak's offense.

And I think it is important to look at the run trends too. I didn't pull those figures out separately, but the short distance run blocking went very south this season--that to me was a bigger concern than the over run numbers, which by conventional measurement numbers looked OK.

Texans_Chick
03-07-2013, 02:43 PM
McNair really framed it with this quote.

Schaub has the talent, potential, and physical tools needed to win it all.

What will stop him from doing so is between his ears, which is exactly what McNair is talking about.

If you believe Schaub will or will not is subjective. We all have our opinions on it.

But he certainly has the potential to do it, just has to actually do it now.

And the thing is, I wish it was just something where it was mental and with more experience he gets over it. But mental stuff doesn't always work that way.

And McNair's odd comment about footspeed makes it sound partly a matter of trust, but partially also a physical thing. I watched his off-season rehab where he was working on a lot of footwork speed stuff. Was there a physical issue part of the season, the whole season? He didn't have to do much most of the early season because the defense was good then.

From a subjective eye-test view, the things I think that Schaub is normally pretty good with were things he didn't look good at by the end of the season. For whatever reasons. The question is whether this is a temp thing or things to come. End of season Schaub did not look like the whole "Same Ole Schaub" stuff that fans say every time there is a loss over the years. The numbers showed that there was something markedly different for him and the offense as a group.

76Texan
03-07-2013, 03:00 PM
I think the whole team just lost some of their edges toward the end of the season. I didn't see the same confident group I saw before Cushing got hurt.

deucetx
03-07-2013, 03:11 PM
Shows Matt was pretty hot in 2009, had a down year in 2010, got hot again for 2011, down again for 2012....... If this is a trend.....

LOL I like that thought! I hope you're right, man. He does seem to have that pattern, doesn't he?

Interesting thoughts about the mental issue. I guess when I think about Schaub and that Patriots game the thing that continues to pop in my head first is when he was under pressure, escapes to the right and is completely free and then throws the ball away. That play definitely could point to a mental aspect that was at issue during the tail end of our season.

Could it be Kubiak not trusting in Matt's ability to stay alive...umm...healthy? Never really thought about it honestly. I was thinking Matt was trying to protect himself toward the end so he could be part of the playoff push but then once there...he still kind of looked the same so my theory was crap lol.

I think the whole team just lost some of their edges toward the end of the season. I didn't see the same confident group I saw before Cushing got hurt.

Yeah definitely seemed the overall edge was gone. Not everyone of course but generally it just didn't seem the same group. Need more leadership to step up in my opinion. I will give credit to Dre though. Don't think he ever talked so much in a season lol.

CloakNNNdagger
03-07-2013, 03:21 PM
TC,

Excellent well-balanced analysis to a very difficult and controversial subject. I suspect most of the questions will be answered in the upcoming preseason/season.

Texans_Chick
03-07-2013, 03:24 PM
I think the whole team just lost some of their edges toward the end of the season. I didn't see the same confident group I saw before Cushing got hurt.

Check out the injury reports over the course of the season. Normal, normal, then explodes after the Detroit game. Too many quarters of football in too few days. We can say, hey, dude, it is your job, tough that out, but JAX/DET is some big boy football even if they aren't the greatest teams.

The snap counts after that are scary. Like seeing how many snaps Andrew Gardner got in the Patriots game. You can go all, next man up and all, but hard to see that after you have been used to your offensive linemen being inked into the lineup.

Brandon Brooks snap counts went up which was good and bad. Good in getting real game experience, bad in having to rely on a noob in key spots.

Will be VERY interested to see his progress from year 1 to 2. When he came to the Texans, he didn't know he'd be not playing for a road grader team. So for a big boy, he really needed to transform his body into a fitter dude.

He probably struggled in camp more than any player I can recall. You know, having to leave the field right before a play because he puked while in his stance.

Offensive lineman can't be that guy because they can't tap out no matter how long the drive. Rotational oline is not the ideal.

So it will be interesting to see his fitness this off-season. /Also interesting to see if the Texans finally cave in bringing a higher pick big boy DT into camp. Saints have those cheeseburger guys in their hot camps, but the Texans haven't had good fortune with them or made it a priority.

/a digression

TexanSam
03-07-2013, 04:05 PM
Check out the injury reports over the course of the season. Normal, normal, then explodes after the Detroit game. Too many quarters of football in too few days. We can say, hey, dude, it is your job, tough that out, but JAX/DET is some big boy football even if they aren't the greatest teams.

The snap counts after that are scary. Like seeing how many snaps Andrew Gardner got in the Patriots game. You can go all, next man up and all, but hard to see that after you have been used to your offensive linemen being inked into the lineup.

Brandon Brooks snap counts went up which was good and bad. Good in getting real game experience, bad in having to rely on a noob in key spots.

Will be VERY interested to see his progress from year 1 to 2. When he came to the Texans, he didn't know he'd be not playing for a road grader team. So for a big boy, he really needed to transform his body into a fitter dude.

He probably struggled in camp more than any player I can recall. You know, having to leave the field right before a play because he puked while in his stance.

Offensive lineman can't be that guy because they can't tap out no matter how long the drive. Rotational oline is not the ideal.

So it will be interesting to see his fitness this off-season. /Also interesting to see if the Texans finally cave in bringing a higher pick big boy DT into camp. Saints have those cheeseburger guys in their hot camps, but the Texans haven't had good fortune with them or made it a priority.

/a digression

I wonder if there's a trend like this with other teams as well? Every team plays one Thursday game a year, but I wonder if those that had a Thursday game late in the season suffered more injuries than those who had it earlier? None of them played two OT games in a row though. May try to do some research on this topic this weekend if I have the chance.

badboy
03-07-2013, 05:07 PM
Check out the injury reports over the course of the season. Normal, normal, then explodes after the Detroit game. Too many quarters of football in too few days. We can say, hey, dude, it is your job, tough that out, but JAX/DET is some big boy football even if they aren't the greatest teams.

The snap counts after that are scary. Like seeing how many snaps Andrew Gardner got in the Patriots game. You can go all, next man up and all, but hard to see that after you have been used to your offensive linemen being inked into the lineup.

Brandon Brooks snap counts went up which was good and bad. Good in getting real game experience, bad in having to rely on a noob in key spots.

Will be VERY interested to see his progress from year 1 to 2. When he came to the Texans, he didn't know he'd be not playing for a road grader team. So for a big boy, he really needed to transform his body into a fitter dude.

He probably struggled in camp more than any player I can recall. You know, having to leave the field right before a play because he puked while in his stance.

Offensive lineman can't be that guy because they can't tap out no matter how long the drive. Rotational oline is not the ideal.

So it will be interesting to see his fitness this off-season. /Also interesting to see if the Texans finally cave in bringing a higher pick big boy DT into camp. Saints have those cheeseburger guys in their hot camps, but the Texans haven't had good fortune with them or made it a priority.

/a digressionSteph best work you've ever done! I wished you had included some of the info in the post I quote on your blog piece. Newton's injury + shuffle at right guard are rarely mentioned; some don't know about Derek and some had forgotten when I mentioned it. What you did not mention was Matt seemed to totally "lose it" in GB game when he threw the INT. He psyched out. That play may have been "mental" as McNair mentions but that just means he over looked something or should have held on to the ball or thrown it away. What I am talking about is after that play he just looked shell shocked. IMO, the weight of being so close and then seeing things spiral out of control zoned him out. I have never been one to give QB glory he does not earn or blame when game is an L. We've seen too many WRs and TEs drop passes or OL like Brown miss a block or Wade Smith get spun round like a record baby right round. It is not all on Matt but he carries our pride in his hands and feet. I don't buy any physical left overs from Lizzy Francis as Matt looked great too much of year for that. Bad news is too many little things went squirrely. Good news is Texans should have another very good season. Great? That depends on how the off season goes.


Josh Eye knees? Kiss our Heinees!

steelbtexan
03-07-2013, 05:32 PM
I wonder if there's a trend like this with other teams as well? Every team plays one Thursday game a year, but I wonder if those that had a Thursday game late in the season suffered more injuries than those who had it earlier? None of them played two OT games in a row though. May try to do some research on this topic this weekend if I have the chance.

This couldn't be, God'ell care about player saftey. (Sarcasm///)

I believe Schaub's foot started really bothering him towards the end of last yr, causing mobility/accuracy issues. But next season will tell the tale. Unfortunately if it doesn't work out it looks like Schaub will be a 10.5 mil cap hit if he's cut. Somebody deserves to be fired if it doesn't work out and the Texans lose the ability to re-sign Watt after this yr when you could probably sign him for less $$$$.

GP
03-07-2013, 05:38 PM
For me, it comes down to him being off his feet from December of 2011 through the playoffs of that year....then the slow build-up to make it back to the field.

IMO, he missed most of December 2011 and the playoffs, he had to have been weakened in terms of stamina and strength due to his type of injury.

His drop-off in December 2012, IMO, was mental AND physical. He was chartering waters he hadn't been in since two years prior in 2010. Athletes have a routine, they have rhythm. You get them off that, for whatever reason, and they can have a hard time remembering what it's like to play in certain times of year. Mental aspect AND physical aspect is what got the guy, IMO.

Have no issue with him as a leader, nor as a person. Think the world of him, actually, because he has his locker room in order there. Kubiak, though, I just cannot get behind the guy as our HC. He's lost GP. GP is writing messages on the sides of his shoes.

badboy
03-07-2013, 05:46 PM
For me, it comes down to him being off his feet from December of 2011 through the playoffs of that year....then the slow build-up to make it back to the field.

IMO, he missed most of December 2011 and the playoffs, he had to have been weakened in terms of stamina and strength due to his type of injury.

His drop-off in December 2012, IMO, was mental AND physical. He was chartering waters he hadn't been in since two years prior in 2010. Athletes have a routine, they have rhythm. You get them off that, for whatever reason, and they can have a hard time remembering what it's like to play in certain times of year. Mental aspect AND physical aspect is what got the guy, IMO.

Have no issue with him as a leader, nor as a person. Think the world of him, actually, because he has his locker room in order there. Kubiak, though, I just cannot get behind the guy as our HC. He's lost GP. GP is writing messages on the sides of his shoes.Guess you will be on Atlanta's MB soon?

GP
03-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Guess you will be on Atlanta's MB soon?

I'm getting franchise tagged, though. I got one more year on TexansTalk.

I promise I will give a full effort, though--Dunta style.

Texans_Chick
03-07-2013, 06:05 PM
I wonder if there's a trend like this with other teams as well? Every team plays one Thursday game a year, but I wonder if those that had a Thursday game late in the season suffered more injuries than those who had it earlier? None of them played two OT games in a row though. May try to do some research on this topic this weekend if I have the chance.

Roger Goodell was recently asked about the injury effects of Thursday games. He said it wasn't a problem.

So no need to look into it because the Rog says it is so.

amazing80
03-07-2013, 06:24 PM
The problem with Schaub IMO is simple. When the run game is shut down he can not succeed. He may pull one out occasionally but at the end of the day, if Foster isn't carrying this team Schaub folds like a cheap lawn chair.

thunderkyss
03-07-2013, 07:11 PM
The problem with Schaub IMO is simple. When the run game is shut down he can not succeed. He may pull one out occasionally but at the end of the day, if Foster isn't carrying this team Schaub folds like a cheap lawn chair.

Then they need to get Foster involved in the passing game.

amazing80
03-07-2013, 07:58 PM
Then they need to get Foster involved in the passing game.

I agree, the lack of production in that area was disgusting this season. IDK why Gary felt the need to increase his run shares and decrease his passes.....

infantrycak
03-07-2013, 08:27 PM
The problem with Schaub IMO is simple. When the run game is shut down he can not succeed. He may pull one out occasionally but at the end of the day, if Foster isn't carrying this team Schaub folds like a cheap lawn chair.

Yeah that must be why he was the league's leading passer when the Texans had no rushing game.

GP
03-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Roger Goodell was recently asked about the injury effects of Thursday games. He said it wasn't a problem.

So no need to look into it because the Rog says it is so.

That's my number 1 problem with the esteemed Commissioner: If he says something is so, it is Gospel truth and that's that.

Does he not see the hypocrisy of citing his #1 priority is player safety....but he wants to do away with some preseason games if it means adding two more reg season games (two more chances for guys who are playing all-out to get hurt)?

So it's no shock that he thinks Thursday games don't pose a problem.

It's not like he's going to do away with a revenue stream named Thursday Night Football.

This league is worrying me. There's some buzz about maybe doing away with kickoffs after scores and resorting to giving the scoring team a 4th down play or punt the ball. LOL. If they do away with kickoffs, just do away with kickers altogether and make it a forced 2-pt conversion after each score. Then, the other team gets the ball on their own 20. Simple solution. But giving the scoring team the option to have the ball after having just scored??? Insane.

/Off-topic Rant

CloakNNNdagger
03-07-2013, 11:09 PM
Roger Goodell was recently asked about the injury effects of Thursday games. He said it wasn't a problem.

So no need to look into it because the Rog says it is so.

The rule changes?......they're all about putting up a facade defense against lawsuits...........it has nothing to do with sincerely wanting to prevent player injuries........for the players' sake. If a player is saved an injury........that's just gravy.

amazing80
03-08-2013, 06:49 AM
Yeah that must be why he was the league's leading passer when the Texans had no rushing game.

Times change, teams no our bread and butter. And sorry to burst your bubble, we were still an above average run team when we had Slaton.

infantrycak
03-08-2013, 07:12 AM
Times change, teams no our bread and butter. And sorry to burst your bubble, we were still an above average run team when we had Slaton.

LOL - hard to burst my bubble when you don't have a clue. We were 30th in the league in rushing. Slaton averaged 3.3 ypc and didn't even have 450 yards on the season. Now work your magic on spinning that into above average.

Texans_Chick
03-08-2013, 09:15 AM
LOL - hard to burst my bubble when you don't have a clue. We were 30th in the league in rushing. Slaton averaged 3.3 ypc and didn't even have 450 yards on the season. Now work your magic on spinning that into above average.

Yeah, look at the first chart on my Schaub post that shows Kubiak offense. The pre-2010 run numbers were so bleak. So bleak in fact, they actually drafted skill position RB high with Tate. /didn't really pan out yet, but showed some urgency. //think improvement on run is partially due to Dennison because he made that his #1 priority when he came to the team.

Basically, Schaub's best QB years were wasted to when the Texans had no consistent running game and terrible, terrible defenses.

GP
03-08-2013, 09:25 AM
The rule changes?......they're all about putting up a facade defense against lawsuits...........it has nothing to do with sincerely wanting to prevent player injuries........for the players' sake. If a player is saved an injury........that's just gravy.

Partially agree here.

I think he has a bit of a savior complex. If he becomes the commissioner who is remembered for saving the health of NFL players, going against the grain of most fans' desire to let the game stay edgy, he solidifies himself as a pioneer.

A person obsessed with "legacy" will do anything to get there. It is my opinion that he is, as you say, "Putting up a legal strategy," but I also think he really thinks this is his ticket to hero status.

So he's compelled to do it AND he wants to do it. A dangerous combination. Then he extends this line of thinking to other areas: His obscene "player fines and suspension" system, the toying with the concept if kickoff changes, the idea of more reg season games, on and on....

And just last year I thought people were being overly harsh in regards to their criticism of him. I've come around.

Texans_Chick
03-08-2013, 10:19 AM
Then they need to get Foster involved in the passing game.

The efficiency numbers on his catches have gone down. Had some drops but not way out of line.

Part of that is teams focusing on stopping him I think. In 2009, running game/runner as pass catcher really wasn't the most credible threat.

2010 was a revelation to teams for the Texans to go to one of the worst running teams to one of the most dominant. So then teams adjust to that.

Don't know if his finger was bothering him any with catches either. Was a little oof seeing him pop his finger back in mid-season.

Texans_Chick
03-08-2013, 10:25 AM
Yeah that must be why he was the league's leading passer when the Texans had no rushing game.

Also worth noting is the YPA numbers. Some people think, maybe given this season, that Schaub has been all dink and dunk. As the 2nd chart shows, Schaub has been in the top 6 QBs in the NFL in YPA for all of his career EXCEPT last year where he was 10th, and the last month number was super low.

And that includes some years where Andre Johnson was hurt, and they were depending on WRs that aren't particularly household names.

Lots of factors could go into that 2012 number, but I think it is a mistake to think of 2012, especially the end of 2012 as Same Old Schaub because really the 2012 numbers are sort of weird.

Double Barrel
03-08-2013, 11:04 AM
Yeah that must be why he was the league's leading passer when the Texans had no rushing game.

We try to avoid letting facts get in the way of a good argument around here. Get with the program, man! :tearup:

steelbtexan
03-08-2013, 11:11 AM
Bottom line: is Schaub a guy that can come up clutch in the playoffs and WIN a SB?

My answer is no, his best yrs are behind him. Others think differently, time will tell.

76Texan
03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
Then they need to get Foster involved in the passing game.

The efficiency numbers on his catches have gone down. Had some drops but not way out of line.

Part of that is teams focusing on stopping him I think. In 2009, running game/runner as pass catcher really wasn't the most credible threat.

2010 was a revelation to teams for the Texans to go to one of the worst running teams to one of the most dominant. So then teams adjust to that.

Don't know if his finger was bothering him any with catches either. Was a little oof seeing him pop his finger back in mid-season.
Sometimes ago, I took a "not-so-in-depth" study on ball distribution, and I found that it's rather consistent through the years - if you take into account the health of AJ.

Basically, we all know that Kubiak likes to balance the running game with the passing game. When the Texans get behind in the second half, they open it up more; when they are up, they run more. That's par for the course with most teams.

In the passing game; it's AJ first, without forcing it too much.
If AJ is out, the load is spread somewhat evenly.

The TEs group, the other receivers, the guys out of the backfield all get their share.

It just so happened that the opponents went to sleep on Foster here and there, and with Casey also out for a good period of time, that he saw more balls.

This year, Foster was targeted 22 times fewer.
Basically, that's only about 1.375 per game.
With AJ and Casey healthy; I don't see anything wrong with it.

ObsiWan
03-08-2013, 11:34 AM
Roger Goodell was recently asked about the injury effects of Thursday games. He said it wasn't a problem.

So no need to look into it because the Rog says it is so.

:ahhaha:

ObsiWan
03-08-2013, 11:41 AM
The rule changes?......they're all about putting up a facade defense against lawsuits...........it has nothing to do with sincerely wanting to prevent player injuries........for the players' sake. If a player is saved an injury........that's just gravy.

Blasphemer!!
How DARE you bring an alternate reality (i.e., Truth) into this discussion!
:foottap:

Did you not see that Steph brought us the Word from The Rog??
Show him the stone tablets Steph.

thunderkyss
03-08-2013, 03:37 PM
The rule changes?......they're all about putting up a facade defense against lawsuits...........it has nothing to do with sincerely wanting to prevent player injuries........for the players' sake. If a player is saved an injury........that's just gravy.

It's not like we want a safer game, not like we care about their long term health. NoFunLeague & "might as well make it flag football"

That tells you how much we care.

Goodell & the former players are playing with us to get what they want.

thunderkyss
03-08-2013, 03:44 PM
Bottom line: is Schaub a guy that can come up clutch in the playoffs and WIN a SB?

My answer is no, his best yrs are behind him. Others think differently, time will tell.

Just 9 weeks ago most people said the same thing about Flacco.

ObsiWan
03-09-2013, 07:21 AM
Lots of Schaub data compiled in one place. Thoroughly enjoyed going through it all.
So what's the answer? The data tells me that Schaub has been a pretty decent QB for us but picked the worse time ever (Dec. 2012) to have a drop off in performance/have a slump/run out of gas/have a lisfranc setback/suffer a bad bio-rhythm month/whatever.
Hell, what was the question?
:cool:

thunderkyss
03-09-2013, 08:30 AM
QB for us but picked the worse time ever (Dec. 2012) to have a drop off in performance/have a slump/run out of gas/have a lisfranc setback/suffer a bad bio-rhythm month/whatever.
Hell, what was the question?
:cool:

Too much credit & too much blame. That's what I think the problem is. Every team that made it past us in the play offs had several players who had exceptional games..... Wes Welker, Steven Ridley, Shane Vareen, Torey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Jacoby Jones, Tony Gonzales, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Jaquis Rogers, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Frank Gore.... all in addition to the QB, but we didn't.

I understand the train of thought, that it starts with the QB. But what if Andre caught that TD vs Atlanta, what if he'd have stopped & caught that one that Matt threw behind him in New England... what if OD, or Walter would have caught the ones they dropped for sure first downs, what if LeStar Caught that one to extend the drive vs New England.... what if we got on a roll by completing these passes?

Matt has to play better, I'm not denying that in any way. But we were seeing great play from TEs, WRs, & RBs from WildCard weekend to the Super Bowl, from all but two teams (imo) the Texans & the Bengals.

steelbtexan
03-09-2013, 09:08 AM
Just 9 weeks ago most people said the same thing about Flacco.

I must not be most, I've always thought Flacco could lead a team to the SB. 2 yrs ago he was a dropped pass or a missed FG from playing in the SB.

Schaub after 6 yrs? Remember I used to be a Schaub guy and think he's a great person/leader etc.... but SB winning QB= doubtful. Seems we were having this discussion about HWNSNBM a few yrs ago. Whenever this discussion is being had chances are the QB being discussed will never lead their team to a SB. (Excrption being Flacco)

Looks like Gary picked the wrong QB to lead the Texans to a SB. He should pay for that decision with his job.IMHO However BoB would never do anything that traumatic. How could the Texans ever find a HC that could replace Gary and still be able to run the WC system? Isit impossible? 7 yrs and counting? I really feel for guys like AJ.

thunderkyss
03-09-2013, 09:16 AM
I must not be most, I've always thought Flacco could lead a team to the SB. 2 yrs ago he was a dropped pass or a missed FG from playing in the SB.


Alex Smith was in a similar situation, yet most people are convinced he can't take his team to a Super Bowl, much less win one.


Schaub after 6 yrs? Remember I used to be a Schaub guy and think he's a great person/leader etc.... but SB winning QB= doubtful. Seems we were having this discussion about HWNSNBM a few yrs ago. Whenever this discussion is being had chances are the QB being discussed will never lead their team to a SB. (Excrption being Flacco)


I am not a Schaub fan. My comments lately come from the increased negativity. He's being criticized about things that have been part of his game for a long time, yet he manages to be successful despite them.

Right now, imo, the only thing he should be criticized about is his ability to lead the team, that's the only thing that he's not demonstrated to be able to do at a high level (& the evidence is so subjective anyway, you won't know until he wins one so it's pointless to even argue).

People putting Schaub in the same category as Carr just don't know what they're talking about. 6 years into his career, he was still working on footwork & throwing through ladders. There was a basic understanding of the game that was missing.... Schaub doesn't have that problem. He's smart enough to make the most of his capabilities & minimize his limitations.

steelbtexan
03-09-2013, 09:24 AM
Alex Smith was in the process of leading his team to the SB last yr before he suffered the concussion and lost his job. He was in the same situation as Flacco 2 yrs ago, a couple of fumbles away from being in the SB.

Now that he's with the Chiefs the chances of him winning a SB are slim. I mean if Montana couldn't win a SB with the Chiefs it is doubtful Alex Smith will.

TXAg14
03-09-2013, 11:12 AM
I say give Schaub one more year before we throw him under the bus. Yes, he faded down the stretch against some teams the Texans should have beat. But dang, the dude led us to a 11-1 record at one point. He's got some work to do, like his deep throws. He got picked off too many times this last year trying to throw a bomb. But I still remember the Denver game where he beat Peyton Manning at his own game. How about the butt-whooping of the Super Bowl Champs? There was lots of good last season, on top of the bad at the end.

If Schaub comes out and has a poor season, then it's time to re-evaluate our options. But in the meantime, let's see what the Texans can do by addressing some of the holes on the team that currently exist...like the fact that Schaub only has ONE player he can throw the ball to for passes greater than 15 yards, where as guys like Brady have Welker, Hernandez, Gronkowski, etc. Also, let's shore up a defense that had some big gaps. They can't just rely on JJ Watt to get pressure every down. Brian Cushing's return will help, but the defense needs depth that wasn't there last season. Granted, how many ILBs were hurt?

If Schaub gets upgrades to his offense and still can't perform, then it's time to head into next offseason with a QB in mind. But give the guy one more season to lead the team.

76Texan
03-09-2013, 11:46 AM
Alex Smith was in the process of leading his team to the SB last yr before he suffered the concussion and lost his job. He was in the same situation as Flacco 2 yrs ago, a couple of fumbles away from being in the SB.

Now that he's with the Chiefs the chances of him winning a SB are slim. I mean if Montana couldn't win a SB with the Chiefs it is doubtful Alex Smith will.

Well, Matt Schaub was on the way to lead the Texans to the SB in 2011, too ... until he suffered that injury.
Don't you think the Texans would have beaten the Ravens with Schaub instead of the rookie?

Can Schaub carry a team?
Heck, NO!

Can the Texans go to the SB with Schaub?
Yes, they have a good chance with him if all the pieces come together (like the Ravens did for Flacco, and like the Pats did for Brady - their defenses played well in the play-offs.)

The better question is does the Texans get value out of the money they spent on Schaub last year?

Did the Broncos get it's worth from Manning?
No, he performed at least as poorly as Schaub did in their play-off loss.

Did the Pats get it from Brady? No, they didn't either.
Brady didn't play well, especially considering the money.

You have the same amount of cap space as other teams to build a football team.
Those that spend more on their QB should expect better results.

If you dig deep into all the contracts; considering the cost of acquisition (draft, trade), the value of the contract, the real money depending on the year of the contract, the hidden cost, the year of service (a younger guy may earn a little less, but only because he might be only in his second contract - Kelvin Kolb for example.)

Look at this long list: Eli Manning, Carlson Palmer, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, and on and on.
Not very many team get more value out of their QB as the Texans did with Schaub.

But the rest of the guys had to contribute. We pay a lot of money for those other guys; they need to figure into the blame game as well.

Lucky
03-09-2013, 12:56 PM
If Schaub gets upgrades to his offense and still can't perform, then it's time to head into next offseason with a QB in mind. But give the guy one more season to lead the team.
There's no other choice. The Texans can't afford to bring in veteran competition. It's unlikely that the backups improve enough to challenge for the starting job. It's not a good rookie crop of QBs (supposedly), and it's rare that a rookie QB makes an impact (well, it used to be rare). It's Schaub or bust.

beerlover
03-09-2013, 01:02 PM
There's no other choice. The Texans can't afford to bring in veteran competition. It's unlikely that the backups improve enough to challenge for the starting job. It's not a good rookie crop of QBs (supposedly), and it's rare that a rookie QB makes an impact (well, it used to be rare). It's Schaub or bust.

there will be more than one QB coming out of this draft who will produce @ the next level sooner than later, it usually happens just a matter of Luck or Skill during evaluation process. Our central issue is Kubiak & his spotty resume considering his "QB Guru" status as coach. That is the conundrum :kubepalm:

Goldensilence
03-09-2013, 03:55 PM
I guess I am in the mindset if guys like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer can win ring with a team that Matt Schaub can. I think he's easily better than both.

I think the differentiation that should be made here is can Matt LEAD the team to a SB or can he win one. I tend to fall more in the later.

Offensively my bigger concern is not necessarily having a guy on offense that the rest of the team can feed off like the defense has with Cushing, Smith, and of course Watt.

AJ has shown that he is still more than capable of being that guy on this offense several times this season. Butt, it just annoys me to no end sometimes to not see Gary or Matt make the call to just start feeding him the ball when this offense struggles. There's nothing wrong sometimes with just simplifying the game and just getting the ball to your best player.

thunderkyss
03-09-2013, 07:01 PM
There's no other choice. The Texans can't afford to bring in veteran competition. It's unlikely that the backups improve enough to challenge for the starting job. It's not a good rookie crop of QBs (supposedly), and it's rare that a rookie QB makes an impact (well, it used to be rare). It's Schaub or bust.

At least we'll have a better supporting cast by the time Schaub's replacement sees the field... well, might not have AJ by then, but hopefully a plethora of weapons... other than the ones we've got now that is.

Jules Winnfield
03-09-2013, 07:52 PM
when you've had as much starts and experience as schaub and you are in your 30s already....

everything is known. There are no more unknowns.

Sad matt schaub has conned so many people here in houston. The rationalizing of his piss poor play is just nauseatingly pathetic.

steelbtexan
03-09-2013, 11:59 PM
Well, Matt Schaub was on the way to lead the Texans to the SB in 2011, too ... until he suffered that injury.
Don't you think the Texans would have beaten the Ravens with Schaub instead of the rookie?

Can Schaub carry a team?
Heck, NO!

Can the Texans go to the SB with Schaub?
Yes, they have a good chance with him if all the pieces come together (like the Ravens did for Flacco, and like the Pats did for Brady - their defenses played well in the play-offs.)

The better question is does the Texans get value out of the money they spent on Schaub last year?

Did the Broncos get it's worth from Manning?
No, he performed at least as poorly as Schaub did in their play-off loss.

Did the Pats get it from Brady? No, they didn't either.
Brady didn't play well, especially considering the money.

You have the same amount of cap space as other teams to build a football team.
Those that spend more on their QB should expect better results.

If you dig deep into all the contracts; considering the cost of acquisition (draft, trade), the value of the contract, the real money depending on the year of the contract, the hidden cost, the year of service (a younger guy may earn a little less, but only because he might be only in his second contract - Kelvin Kolb for example.)

Look at this long list: Eli Manning, Carlson Palmer, Tony Romo, Mark Sanchez, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Phillip Rivers, and on and on.
Not very many team get more value out of their QB as the Texans did with Schaub.

But the rest of the guys had to contribute. We pay a lot of money for those other guys; they need to figure into the blame game as well.

The Texans are tied to Schaub thru the 2016 season. Do you see him getting better or worse as time goes on?

If you see him getting better I understand. Although I haven't seen a QB that had great footwork (Schaub 2009-2010) fall off the cliff in terms of footwork suddenly regain his lost footwork. But hey, there's a 1st time for everything. (I hope you're right)

As far as all of the other stuff, Brady has 3 rings he deserves his $$$$. Manning was one dumb play by a S from reaching an above avg chance at reaching a SB. Schaub? Bottom line is when was the last time a QB with Schaub's skills won a SB? Dilfer/Johnson 10-15 yrs ago?

Your fandom says Schaub is good enough to win a SB. (Which I respect and hope your right) The type of QB Schaub is and his medical issues have me thinking Schab isn't the man for the job.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 12:04 AM
There's no other choice. The Texans can't afford to bring in veteran competition. It's unlikely that the backups improve enough to challenge for the starting job. It's not a good rookie crop of QBs (supposedly), and it's rare that a rookie QB makes an impact (well, it used to be rare). It's Schaub or bust.

Yep

You can thank BoB/Rick/Gary for this situation. They jumped the gun re-signing Schaub. kinda like they jumped the gun re-signing HWNSNBM. (History repeating itself)

thunderkyss
03-10-2013, 07:41 AM
Yep

You can thank BoB/Rick/Gary for this situation. They jumped the gun re-signing Schaub. kinda like they jumped the gun re-signing HWNSNBM. (History repeating itself)

Totally different situation. David Carr has never done anything to make you think he was worth the $8M kicker he got. Schaub on the other hand led the league in passing in 2009, has had a QB rating of 90+ for 5 years running while throwing for (or being on pace to throw for) more than 4,000 yards.

It's just stats & I'm not saying that makes Schaub elite or anything, only that he shouldn't be compared to that scrub.

Matt's biggest issues, & the only ones that really matter, has been his health & his ability to lead this team. When he's healthy, there aren't many QBs better. I know there are a lot of QBs that many here say are better than Schaub & they rate them higher, but most of those guys have not performed as well as, or produced as much as Schaub. They'll rate them on potential, age, or athleticism; not production.

But Production wise, Schaub beats them hands down. Not extending Schaub in September would have only added one more contract Greg Olsen & Rick Smith would have to work out this offseason. You're fooling yourself if you think the Texans would have let him walk, or that we would have been able to sign him for less.

bOODRO87
03-10-2013, 01:29 PM
Oh, I don't buy that one bit. If we waited to see how Schaub would play during a full season after coming from a game-changing injury instead of a knee jerk re-signing after one of our most dominating defensive games in team history, his contract would not be looking the same.

What a stupid risk that was. Why wouldn't you not want to wait and see how a 30-something year old QB does after a pretty fkn serious injury on his throwing foot? But no, we decided to not even do a legitimate evaluation. Of course Matt may look 100% during drills and his first game. How's he going to look at the end of the season after some hits and also when the games actually matter a lot more? Well, what he has so far shown us makes me sick to my stomach that he's guaranteed 24 million. One of the most unclutch QBs when the games are on the line. Losing HFA twice..

But hey, good for him. He doesn't have to worry about money again.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 01:36 PM
What a stupid risk that was. Why wouldn't you not want to wait and see how a 30-something year old QB does after a pretty fkn serious injury on his throwing foot? But no, we decided to not even do a legitimate evaluation. Of course Matt may look 100% during drills and his first game. How's he going to look at the end of the season after some hits and also when the games actually matter a lot more?
It was a mistake. A miscalculation. There would not be a market for Schaub right now, after what he showed in 2012, combined with his injury history. They could have still re-signed Shaub for less $$$ and fewer years. If Schaub cannot come back to pre-injury form, it will haunt this franchise for the next 2-3 years.

GP
03-10-2013, 01:39 PM
We're not tied to Schaub through 2016.

2014 at the most.

And really, it could be as soon as after the 2013 season. But knowing this franchise's tendencies, I'd place money on after 2014.

Lucky
03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
We're not tied to Schaub through 2016.

2014 at the most.

And really, it could be as soon as after the 2013 season. But knowing this franchise's tendencies, I'd place money on after 2014.
That's probably correct. Releasing Schaub before the 2014 would be close to breakeven against the cap. Prior to the 2015 season, would be a cap savings of close to $10 million. But that would still have $7million of dead money against the cap. Just like Casserly did, carrying around cap space for guys that are no longer playing.

amazing80
03-10-2013, 02:03 PM
LOL - hard to burst my bubble when you don't have a clue. We were 30th in the league in rushing. Slaton averaged 3.3 ypc and didn't even have 450 yards on the season. Now work your magic on spinning that into above average.

sorry, I merged 2008 and 2009 in my mind. So Schaub did carry us offensively in 2009, 4 years ago. We gonna continue to live on the past and ignore the lack of clutchness gene and lack of playing in the spot light? doesn't matter why he lost his mojo, it matters that he has. And hasn't proven he will regain it. Not to mention he has always had massive short comings and the way the nfl evolves year in and year out, we're not gonna be able to over come those. The lack of mobility in todays nfl from the qb is a BIG negative and IMO a reason for failure in crucial moments. When a team pins back and rushed the qb, schaub and his LEAGUE slow 3 cone time (I did a study and will post later about 3 cone times and their ability to predict mobility for qbs in the nfl) really hurts the team as he tries to elude rushers and make a play.

CloakNNNdagger
03-10-2013, 03:17 PM
If you see him getting better I understand. Although I haven't seen a QB that had great footwork (Schaub 2009-2010) fall off the cliff in terms of footwork suddenly regain his lost footwork. But hey, there's a 1st time for everything. (I hope you're right)


Many may not remember, but Schaub's footwork factored in as a major attraction by the Texans when they made their selection in 2007.

Texans place trust in new QB Schaub (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2007-08-17-schaub_N.htm)
USA TODAY Updated 8/17/2007 11:48 AM

Schaub's footwork and decision-making is expected to help that unit build a new image.

Let me see. A QB is known for his consistently good to great footwork from 2007 to 2010........then sustains a devastating foot injury...........then pertaining to the 2012 season, even the owner is commenting on his sudden ridiculously poor footwork..........................must be an arm or shoulder injury or something.

And to put to rest the question of why would he put himself out there for the ProBowl if his foot was injured and he was having problems because of it? You can have the best surgeon in the world, and all that can be hoped for on his part is that he puts the foot (in this case) back together precisely anatomically. If that is accomplished, the surgery on the part of the surgeon is considered successful. In a Lisfranc, especially when a fracture if involved, despite excellent reconstruction, not uncommonly long-term and/or progressive life-long chronic pain and tenderness can be experienced. And this is not necessarily due to any re-injury.........this can be simply and only due to the ligamentous, bone and/or cartilaginous trauma sustained at the time of the Lisfranc fracture injury.

This would easily explain why Schaub never appeared on the injury report. Pain and/or tenderness is not an indication for why a player is placed on an Injury Report. Otherwise, virtually every player if not every player of an NFL team would be listed on the Injury Report every week.

As far as the Pro Bowl game. As deliniated above, the problem is not one that you worry necessarily about re-injury to a well-repaired Lisfranc. Rather, the pain and tenderness to deal with while playing that game. Schaub could have very well falsely believed that the rest that he received after his last post season game and prior to playing in the Pro Bowl game would have lessened his debility. Yet, with a “stellar” performance in the Pro Bowl, he could have “rehabilitated” his very tarnished reputation stemming from all the nationally televised embarrassments.

If Schaub does, indeed, need any additional surgery on his foot, the need would very unlikely come from re-injury to his foot..........it would most likely be as a result from severe arthritic changes accompanied by its unbearable pain. That type of surgery would require fusion of the bones.........something that would certainly not be expected to leaving him with any great mobility.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2013, 08:44 PM
The Matt Schaub Compendium (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2013/03/the-matt-schaub-compendium/)

Basically, my recent blog post is a collection of what is known and unknown about Schaub as he ended 2012.

Contains data. Contains known info. Contains speculation.

Frames the issue, puts the end of 2012 into a larger context.

Think it is fair. Not really interested in neener neener talk about Schaub because I think that is a distraction from just looking at what the knowns and unknowns are. That often pejoratives and tone people use detracts from just talking the football stuff.

It was a hard post to put together but I'm happy that I did. I learned things putting it together, and usually those are the best posts.


:thinking:
Do most people know what a Compendium even is???? :specnatz:

GP
03-11-2013, 12:07 AM
Many may not remember, but Schaub's footwork factored in as a major attraction by the Texans when they made their selection in 2007.



Let me see. A QB is known for his consistently good to great footwork from 2007 to 2010........then sustains a devastating foot injury...........then pertaining to the 2012 season, even the owner is commenting on his sudden ridiculously poor footwork..........................must be an arm or shoulder injury or something.

And to put to rest the question of why would he put himself out there for the ProBowl if his foot was injured and he was having problems because of it? You can have the best surgeon in the world, and all that can be hoped for on his part is that he puts the foot (in this case) back together precisely anatomically. If that is accomplished, the surgery on the part of the surgeon is considered successful. In a Lisfranc, especially when a fracture if involved, despite excellent reconstruction, not uncommonly long-term and/or progressive life-long chronic pain and tenderness can be experienced. And this is not necessarily due to any re-injury.........this can be simply and only due to the ligamentous, bone and/or cartilaginous trauma sustained at the time of the Lisfranc fracture injury.

This would easily explain why Schaub never appeared on the injury report. Pain and/or tenderness is not an indication for why a player is placed on an Injury Report. Otherwise, virtually every player if not every player of an NFL team would be listed on the Injury Report every week.

As far as the Pro Bowl game. As deliniated above, the problem is not one that you worry necessarily about re-injury to a well-repaired Lisfranc. Rather, the pain and tenderness to deal with while playing that game. Schaub could have very well falsely believed that the rest that he received after his last post season game and prior to playing in the Pro Bowl game would have lessened his debility. Yet, with a “stellar” performance in the Pro Bowl, he could have “rehabilitated” his very tarnished reputation stemming from all the nationally televised embarrassments.

If Schaub does, indeed, need any additional surgery on his foot, the need would very unlikely come from re-injury to his foot..........it would most likely be as a result from severe arthritic changes accompanied by its unbearable pain. That type of surgery would require fusion of the bones.........something that would certainly not be expected to leaving him with any great mobility.

I've always been right there with you.

Just because he's not on an injury report doesn't mean he's not hurting out there.

He gets rest, he works his way back during camp, probably went through preseason feeling decent...then has a great stretch of 7 games or so, then the foot wears down. The stamina wears down. Probably receiving shots to help him get through it each week.

That's been my stance since about the first game vs Patriots. All the spreadsheets in the world don't matter when the eyeball test tells you something isn't right.

At the end of the day, this entire franchise is coming off as if it is compelled to give Matt Schaub the ball no matter what. A duty, an obligation for the sake of the code of loyalty.

Which I think is driving Matt Schaub in a wrong direction physically and psychologically as the QB who now knows he's been given a lot of rope....and you know what they say about one who's given too much rope.

Frankly, I think we're in for a sobering 2013 that makes us once again feeling like we wasted time. I think a guy like Bob McNair is learning hard truths about NFL ownership: You can never be sentimental to the point that you set your team back. Just when he thought we had arrived, and his QB was set for the future, something terrible happens.

Sucks.

Bulls on Parade
03-11-2013, 02:15 AM
I think Matt Schaub is capable of being every bit as good as Joe Flacco. Many people rated Schaub slightly ahead of Joe Montana, I mean err, Joe Flacco going into last season. Just a matter of him getting hot at the right time and playing out of his mind come playoff time. Of course, I say that just to feel better about the this team right now. We aren't good enough to win a Super Bowl at the moment. Hopefully that will change after a good free agency and draft. I want to enter the 2013 season with some swagger and a sense of urgency. Our window of opportunity to win a championship isn't very big. I'd say it has to happen in the next season or two while Andre Johnson is still considered a top three wide receiver in the game. He wasn't even top ten, statistically speaking, before he got super hot during the Jaguars and Lions game last year and set a two-game NFL record for most receiving yards.

We are stuck with Matt Schaub. He's our guy for better or worse. If we were going to make a change we'd have done so last off-season when Peyton Manning had some interest in playing for the Texans. That was a realistic upgrade at the QB position and we failed to pounce on it. So now we have to hope Schaub is capable of leading us to that Lombardi Trophy. If Joe Flacco can do it then certainly Matt Schaub has a chance.

Lucky
03-11-2013, 07:32 AM
If we were going to make a change we'd have done so last off-season when Peyton Manning had some interest in playing for the Texans. That was a realistic upgrade at the QB position and we failed to pounce on it.
Where were the Texans going to find the extra $9million on the cap to cut Schaub and sign Peyton? Was that "realistic"?

silvrhand
03-11-2013, 10:41 AM
Where were the Texans going to find the extra $9million on the cap to cut Schaub and sign Peyton? Was that "realistic"?

Did we even get to the money part though? Seems like we came out and didn't even pitch an offer, doesn't really seem like Peyton really needs the extra money.

dream_team
03-11-2013, 10:52 AM
Did we even get to the money part though? Seems like we came out and didn't even pitch an offer, doesn't really seem like Peyton really needs the extra money.

In hindsight, it's easy to say we should have gotten Peyton, considering the seasons Schaub & Peyton had. Keep in mind, in 2011 Schaub was having a good season until his injury. At the same time, people were wondering whether Peyton will ever be the same or if he could last a whole season. Peyton was too risky to gamble on while we already had a decent QB.

Mr teX
03-11-2013, 11:01 AM
I think Matt Schaub is capable of being every bit as good as Joe Flacco. Many people rated Schaub slightly ahead of Joe Montana, I mean err, Joe Flacco going into last season. Just a matter of him getting hot at the right time and playing out of his mind come playoff time. Of course, I say that just to feel better about the this team right now. We aren't good enough to win a Super Bowl at the moment. Hopefully that will change after a good free agency and draft. I want to enter the 2013 season with some swagger and a sense of urgency. Our window of opportunity to win a championship isn't very big. I'd say it has to happen in the next season or two while Andre Johnson is still considered a top three wide receiver in the game. He wasn't even top ten, statistically speaking, before he got super hot during the Jaguars and Lions game last year and set a two-game NFL record for most receiving yards.

We are stuck with Matt Schaub. He's our guy for better or worse. If we were going to make a change we'd have done so last off-season when Peyton Manning had some interest in playing for the Texans. That was a realistic upgrade at the QB position and we failed to pounce on it. So now we have to hope Schaub is capable of leading us to that Lombardi Trophy. If Joe Flacco can do it then certainly Matt Schaub has a chance.

I agree partly with this. Joe Flacco looked like garbage most of the year so they ran Cam Cameron out of town towards the end of the season and come playoff time Flacco started looking like Aaron Rodgers. You can speculate that Flacco just got hot at the right time....but the more likely scenario is that him getting hot at the right time & the combo of better playcalling were key factors. Kubiak won't change his philosophy until **** is out of hand...by the time the end of the season rolled around, teams knew this and played him accordingly.

silvrhand
03-11-2013, 11:09 AM
In hindsight, it's easy to say we should have gotten Peyton, considering the seasons Schaub & Peyton had. Keep in mind, in 2011 Schaub was having a good season until his injury. At the same time, people were wondering whether Peyton will ever be the same or if he could last a whole season. Peyton was too risky to gamble on while we already had a decent QB.

I didn't say we were being unfair I just said we didn't even kick the tires on that one it seems. At least not publically maybe behind the scenes.

Bulls on Parade
03-11-2013, 11:10 AM
Did we even get to the money part though? Seems like we came out and didn't even pitch an offer, doesn't really seem like Peyton really needs the extra money.
Agreed. It didn't get to that point of offering a contract but had it, no question the Texans would have found a way to finalize a deal. Creating that kind of cap space to sign a star player is merely getting a handful of players to restructure their deals. It's not as difficult as people make it seem, especially after the Texans had already cleared a lot of salary last off-season. Mind you, this was before the Texans extended Schaub's contract, which is currently going to make more than Tom Brady of all players (after his clever restructuring).

Bob McNair was interviewed on ABC 13 about a week before Peyton signed with Denver and said the Texans certainly weren't surprised by his interest. But Bob McNair also reinforced the concerns the team had with his injuries, and expressed the faith they had in Matt Schaub, and said the organization already had an elite quarterback they were confident could lead them to the Super Bowl.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 11:44 AM
I've always been right there with you.

Just because he's not on an injury report doesn't mean he's not hurting out there.


I'm still not buying it. He's not on the injury report, he doesn't miss any practice. Then he plays in a game (including practices) he was under no obligation to play.... We couldn't score TDs, we couldn't convert 3rd & 1s on the ground, we couldn't keep the other team out of the endzone & it was all because Schaub is gimpy.

For some reason, I think it was something else.

I think Matt Schaub is capable of being every bit as good as Joe Flacco. Many people rated Schaub slightly ahead of Joe Montana, I mean err, Joe Flacco going into last season. Just a matter of him getting hot at the right time and playing out of his mind come playoff time.

If we go to the play offs 5 years running, I like the odds of our team gelling & getting the job done. Yes Flacco had an amazing run, but so did Bolden, Torrey, & Jacoby. & their goal line defense showed up when it mattered most.

GP
03-11-2013, 12:34 PM
Well, I'll trust the ortho over your opinion, TK, when it comes to how modern-day coaches/trainers/athletes deal with nagging injuries like chronic foot pain and inability to fully rely upon the severely traumatized area that has a high rate of failure as time wears on.

Just sayin'.....

dream_team
03-11-2013, 12:41 PM
I didn't say we were being unfair I just said we didn't even kick the tires on that one it seems. At least not publically maybe behind the scenes.

Fair enough. I would have liked for the Texans inquire myself. But you know the Texans FO is all about loyalty. Both a good and bad trait to have.

76Texan
03-11-2013, 01:14 PM
I didn't say we were being unfair I just said we didn't even kick the tires on that one it seems. At least not publically maybe behind the scenes.

Silvrhand, I don't think the Texans even need to kick the tires.
By my estimate, the Texans would need between $6-8M extra to acquire Peyton.
There's no way to make things work.

Pay-Me would never leave even half that amount on the table.

76Texan
03-11-2013, 01:20 PM
Agreed. It didn't get to that point of offering a contract but had it, no question the Texans would have found a way to finalize a deal. Creating that kind of cap space to sign a star player is merely getting a handful of players to restructure their deals. It's not as difficult as people make it seem, especially after the Texans had already cleared a lot of salary last off-season. Mind you, this was before the Texans extended Schaub's contract, which is currently going to make more than Tom Brady of all players (after his clever restructuring).

Bob McNair was interviewed on ABC 13 about a week before Peyton signed with Denver and said the Texans certainly weren't surprised by his interest. But Bob McNair also reinforced the concerns the team had with his injuries, and expressed the faith they had in Matt Schaub, and said the organization already had an elite quarterback they were confident could lead them to the Super Bowl.

1. Too much risk, health-wise.
2. Too much risk, financially, when you kick too many cans down the road.
(I compare this to the US government deficit-spending that brought us to this mess.)

The Brady's restructuring deal, for example, comes with a big risk.
If Brady was to get injured (even in PS), like he did a few years back, the Pats will be in big doo-doo with all the guaranteed money already spent.

ASidd_1990
03-11-2013, 05:03 PM
Man really wish we could have waited till the offseason to extend Matt Schaub.

We definitely overpaid.

SMH stuck with this cat for at least another 2 years.

I always tell myself at least we aren't the Cardinals or Jets. Hahaha

ObsiWan
03-11-2013, 06:51 PM
:thinking:
Do most people know what a Compendium even is???? :specnatz:
It's whatever Steph says it is.
:foottap:

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 06:54 PM
I agree partly with this. Joe Flacco looked like garbage most of the year so they ran Cam Cameron out of town towards the end of the season and come playoff time Flacco started looking like Aaron Rodgers. You can speculate that Flacco just got hot at the right time....but the more likely scenario is that him getting hot at the right time & the combo of better playcalling were key factors. Kubiak won't change his philosophy until **** is out of hand...by the time the end of the season rolled around, teams knew this and played him accordingly.

How does that explain how Flacco did in the playoff 2 yrs ago when the Ravens should've beaten the Pats. Flacco played really well in the playoffs then too. Schaub in the playoffs?

ObsiWan
03-11-2013, 06:56 PM
If we go to the play offs 5 years running, I like the odds of our team gelling & getting the job done. Yes Flacco had an amazing run, but so did Bolden, Torrey, & Jacoby. & their goal line defense showed up when it mattered most.

Ours yielded a second STRAIGHT FORTY Burger!

...but it's all Schaub's fault.

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 07:02 PM
Ours yielded a second STRAIGHT FORTY Burger!

...but it's all Schaub's fault.

The Ravens gave up 35 and 31 to Denver and SF but still found a way to win, because Flacco and the offense got the job done. Schaub? BTW These high scores are the way the NFL is trending. Gary/Schaub better get with the program or get left behind.

Double Barrel
03-11-2013, 07:16 PM
Ours yielded a second STRAIGHT FORTY Burger!

...but it's all Schaub's fault.

That tends to happen when your offense lays a goose egg for the entire third quarter of playoff game.

It wasn't bad at halftime with a 17-13 score. But one team made adjustments and came out ready to play and put 14 on the board. The other team punted and threw a pick, which led to the other team's 14 points.

It's obviously not all Schaub's fault, but when the QB touches the ball every single offensive snap, he does bear the burden of a bit more blame than many other players. Such is the nature of being a QB.

bOODRO87
03-11-2013, 07:35 PM
One thing that REALLY stood out to me was teams that surpassed us in the playoffs were not settling for Field Goals. That's on the Kubiak as well, though. I will give Schaub the Casey drop, but the Bengals INT inside the 20 and the INT straight to the Mikovich on NE are as bad as interceptions can get in the post season. The almighty important 3rd down when Schaub scrambled wide the F open just to throw it away. The drop he had where it had looked like divine intervention or a ghost swiped it out of his hand. I don't know how you guys feel about the QBR system, but his rating was below 75 (some sub 50) in all prime time games of them except for 2nd NE game. I'm not quite sure on that one but we didn't score in the entire 3rd quarter I believe. The unbelievably caught Posey TD was when the game was already decided.

2013: Year of the Schaub. Could he be the most pressured QB going into this season? He certainly has a good chance of becoming that.. I really have no emotion going into this season to tell the truth. I'll watch and root, but I wont get my hopes up. Gary and Matt have been with each other long enough for me to come to this realization. Of course, that's my opinion. We may win a majority of our regular season games, but your QB has to make plays on the fly when playoffs come. 2009 Schaub would have a good chance of tearing it up, but I think this injury and a sprinkle of age did him in. Add in Kubiak's conservative approach and it's a recipe for another unfulfilled season.

Lucky
03-11-2013, 07:58 PM
Agreed. It didn't get to that point of offering a contract but had it, no question the Texans would have found a way to finalize a deal.
How? Where who would have been cut (besides Schaub, of course) to makeup the difference in the cap hit between Manning ($18 million) and Schaub (7.15 million in salary cut, minus the $2.5 million in dead money from bonus). That's over $13 million that would have needed to be cleared from the cap. Even with AJ, JoJo, and Antonio redoing their deals (which they did), that would not have been close to enough. Saying the Texans "would have found a way" isn't realistic.

thunderkyss
03-11-2013, 08:24 PM
Man really wish we could have waited till the offseason to extend Matt Schaub.

We definitely overpaid.


We're fooling ourselves if we think we'd have resigned Schaub for less money after 2012 than resigning him when we did. You're delusional if you think we wouldn't resign him after the season he had.

He played all 16 games, which is huge for Schaub. He threw for 4000 yards, and made the Pro Bowl (I know it doesn't mean much to us fans, but it means enough that many players have accelerators built into their contracts tied to the Pro Bowl), we won 12 games, we won our division, we won a play off game....

According to some of you, it's time for the Bengals to draft a new QB.

Uncle Rico
03-11-2013, 09:48 PM
His foot was not 100%

Question is will it ever be 100%?

Lucky
03-11-2013, 10:09 PM
We're fooling ourselves if we think we'd have resigned Schaub for less money after 2012 than resigning him when we did. You're delusional if you think we wouldn't resign him after the season he had.
No one is delusional. We differ in opinions. I differ in my opinion on Schaub's contract (and timing) wildly from yours. That doesn't make me delusional.

I can't see another NFL team approaching what the Texans paid Matt Schaub. Not even close. At 31 (and looking much older), Schaub would be considered no more than a stop gap around the league. No way would he get a 4 year deal. Or $20+ million guaranteed. The Texans could have (and likely would have) gotten Schaub for much less and for fewer years.

silvrhand
03-12-2013, 12:03 AM
Silvrhand, I don't think the Texans even need to kick the tires.
By my estimate, the Texans would need between $6-8M extra to acquire Peyton.
There's no way to make things work.

Pay-Me would never leave even half that amount on the table.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9020118/peyton-manning-uso-tour-journal

I don't think Peyton is about "Pay Me" dude is total class.. Not sure how you can hate on this guy.

bOODRO87
03-12-2013, 08:09 AM
We're fooling ourselves if we think we'd have resigned Schaub for less money after 2012 than resigning him when we did. You're delusional if you think we wouldn't resign him after the season he had.

He played all 16 games, which is huge for Schaub. He threw for 4000 yards, and made the Pro Bowl (I know it doesn't mean much to us fans, but it means enough that many players have accelerators built into their contracts tied to the Pro Bowl), we won 12 games, we won our division, we won a play off game....

According to some of you, it's time for the Bengals to draft a new QB.

Big difference. Dalton has been in league for only 2 years. He's led his team to the playoffs each year in a tough division and also made the pro bowl. 6 years younger than Schaub.

Meanwhile, Matt has been a starter with us since 2007 while being in the league since 2004. He had a great year in 2009. He was looking good in '11 but can't have the credit if you can't stay on the field. He may have won a playoff but it certainly wasn't because of him.

Bottom line, It's not impressive at all what Gary and Matt have accomplished while being together since 2007.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 10:04 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9020118/peyton-manning-uso-tour-journal

I don't think Peyton is about "Pay Me" dude is total class.. Not sure how you can hate on this guy.

You know I don't hate anybody, come on.

The fact remains that he always got paid a ton of money.
When did he ever leave millions of dollars on the table?

On the Broncos board, there was even a thread titled "Pay-TON Manning: He is who I thought he was."

They were talking about a QB who failed to deliver too many times in the play-offs.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 10:21 AM
No one is delusional. We differ in opinions. I differ in my opinion on Schaub's contract (and timing) wildly from yours. That doesn't make me delusional.

I can't see another NFL team approaching what the Texans paid Matt Schaub. Not even close. At 31 (and looking much older), Schaub would be considered no more than a stop gap around the league. No way would he get a 4 year deal. Or $20+ million guaranteed. The Texans could have (and likely would have) gotten Schaub for much less and for fewer years.

Agreed

The less yrs thingy is a big deal for me.

Rick/Gary/BoB are now tied to Schaub for 3 yrs atleast. It's time to get Schaub's successor either this yr or next, so the rookie QB will be ready to roll by 2015-2016.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 11:47 AM
Agreed

The less yrs thingy is a big deal for me.

Rick/Gary/BoB are now tied to Schaub for 3 yrs atleast. It's time to get Schaub's successor either this yr or next, so the rookie QB will be ready to roll by 2015-2016.

I think the Texans should have played a little more hard ball with Schaub's agent and include more incentives in the contract; heck, AJ had that in his!

Double Barrel
03-12-2013, 12:12 PM
All the spreadsheets in the world don't matter when the eyeball test tells you something isn't right.


That's a great line, man. The thing about statistics is that they can often be presented in a way to support any given perspective.

But my own gut feeling of Schaub is a direct result of watching him in action for big games and high pressure situations this past season. There is nothing in his demeanor or performances that leads me to believe that he can carry this team on his back like most SB-winning QBs have done.

Even guys like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco, who are not elite QBs, played above and beyond their regular season selves to elevate their play which propelled their teams to victory in the post-season. Matt's one playoff year did not inspire anything close to that, and at 32 years old and declining physical health, there is nothing to indicate that he will be that kind of QB.

I saw too much of Warren Moon's spectacular regular seasons and abysmal playoff chokes to get worked up about a bunch of regular season stats. It certainly makes for a fun season to get to the playoffs, but it takes more than hope and butterfly kisses to win it all.

People keep bringing up Trent Dilfer like it's something to keep our hopes alive. But that happened 13 years ago, and let's not forget the most important aspect of his story: one of the greatest defenses in NFL history.

76Texan
03-12-2013, 12:21 PM
That's a great line, man. The thing about statistics is that they can often be presented in a way to support any given perspective.

But my own gut feeling of Schaub is a direct result of watching him in action for big games and high pressure situations this past season. There is nothing in his demeanor or performances that leads me to believe that he can carry this team on his back like most SB-winning QBs have done.

Even guys like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco, who are not elite QBs, played above and beyond their regular season selves to elevate their play which propelled their teams to victory in the post-season. Matt's one playoff year did not inspire anything close to that, and at 32 years old and declining physical health, there is nothing to indicate that he will be that kind of QB.

I saw too much of Warren Moon's spectacular regular seasons and abysmal playoff chokes to get worked up about a bunch of regular season stats. It certainly makes for a fun season to get to the playoffs, but it takes more than hope and butterfly kisses to win it all.

People keep bringing up Trent Dilfer like it's something to keep our hopes alive. But that happened 13 years ago, and let's not forget the most important aspect of his story: one of the greatest defenses in NFL history.

I dunno DB.

Performances by Manning in the play-offs never instilled great confidence in his fans. Even Brady's are spotty in the last half of this decade.

Eli was rather "lucky" because his defense gave him enough opportunities.
The same thing can be said about Flacco, he who also benefited from a lapse from the opponents' defense.

There's a difference between Moon and Schaub though.
Moon was paid to be "the man"; Schaub is being paid to be "one of the core players".

I'm nowhere near satisfied with Schaub's play.
I wish Keenum is an inch and 10-lbs of muscle more.

thunderkyss
03-12-2013, 03:34 PM
Even guys like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco, who are not elite QBs, played above and beyond their regular season selves to elevate their play which propelled their teams to victory in the post-season. Matt's one playoff year did not inspire anything close to that, and at 32 years old and declining physical health, there is nothing to indicate that he will be that kind of QB.


Dec 30, 2012, did you think Matt Schaub was a better or worse QB than Joe Flacco?

I'm not a Matt Schaub fan (I've been having to say that a lot lately), but I believe I have been honest about what he can & cannot do. Dec 30, 2012 there was no doubt in my mind that he was a better QB than either Joe Flacco & Matt Ryan. Both only 3 years younger than Schaub (it's the hairline).

If Ryan & Flacco can have the success they had this year after years of failure, I have no reason to believe Schaub can not. Ryan & Flacco made timely throws, but his receivers (WRs, TEs, RBs, FBs) had excellent games as well.

I think it would be interesting to compare our offensive first round picks with the teams that made it past the div round.

CloakNNNdagger
03-12-2013, 04:08 PM
I wish Keenum is an inch and 10-lbs of muscle more.

Keenum (6'/209) could very well end up our Russel Wilson (5'11"/206).

76Texan
03-12-2013, 05:23 PM
Keenum (6'/209) could very well end up our Russel Wilson (5'11"/206).

The thing is Wilson is way more atheletic than Keenum.

He's almost as smart as Keenum and so when you combine both facets together, he can adapt to the next level better.

Why I said I want the Texans to take both of them, so one can be the insurance policy for another.