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76Texan
03-06-2013, 10:50 AM
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

deucetx
03-06-2013, 11:09 AM
I like the number a lot of guys are tossing around here on the boards. Somewhere in the ballpark of $3-4 million per and maybe 4 years. Seems pretty reasonable to me but with free agency you never know. NFL owners/GM's start acting like rappers in a strip club and let it rain to absurd amounts.

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 11:15 AM
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

Well considering by your sites own disclaimer, the rating doesn't tell the whole story. There are plenty of names on that list ahead of Quin who are not quite as good or as young as Quin IMO. Especially if you consider a player such as Chung who wasn't even starting at the end of the season for his respective team.

I obviously believe he is higher then #18 & ultimately I believe he should be paid less then Manning, in the $3-4M/year range possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered him more because just as the Texans did w/ Manning, who wasn't a starter in Chicago, someone will pay a bit more for potential & youth. The difference is Quin is a starter while Manning never was for a long duration w/ the Bears.

eriadoc
03-06-2013, 11:30 AM
FWIW, only 4 guys ahead of him on that list took as many or more snaps, and only 4 more even took 70% of his snaps. Ed Reed took 22 more snaps and is rated well below Quin on this list. LaRon Landry was rated below even Reed and took 6 fewer snaps than Quin.

Vinny
03-06-2013, 11:34 AM
FWIW, only 4 guys ahead of him on that list took as many or more snaps, and only 4 more even took 70% of his snaps. Ed Reed took 22 more snaps and is rated well below Quin on this list. LaRon Landry was rated below even Reed and took 6 fewer snaps than Quin.
Most of the players under him are chumps. All the players above him can play. Reed is an exception because of his age (not a chump).

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 11:44 AM
Most of the players under him are chumps. All the players above him can play. Reed is an exception because of his age (not a chump).

I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.

Vinny
03-06-2013, 11:50 AM
I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.
You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 11:55 AM
I don't know about that one. I have a hard time believing players such as Sanders, Spievey, Leonhard & a few others listed are better then Quin. I think some of that is supported by their lack of snap counts compared to Quin. Im even willing to throw Chung in there as below Quin because he has regressed as of late.

Leonhard just had too many injuries to be a starter; Chung is getting there soon if he can't stay healthy this next year, but as far as playing goes, Quin can't compare with a healthy Chung.

Dutchrudder
03-06-2013, 12:02 PM
Leonhard just had too many injuries to be a starter; Chung is getting there soon if he can't stay healthy this next year, but as far as playing goes, Quin can't compare with a healthy Chung.

Chung was actually the guy I was hoping the Texans would pick when they took Barwin. I wouldn't mind having him in place of Quin if he was cheaper. Both would be nice, but unrealistic given how little this team cares about safeties.

ArlingtonTexan
03-06-2013, 12:04 PM
You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

Very similiar to Mike Briesel at OG last season. In a non-salary cap world, a team keeps that player who fits its system perfeectly; now those guys test the market and hope to find the right money/situation for them.

Quin/Manning as a combination is better than either one alone. Individually, quin does not make enough difference making plays and can be exposed when having to cover TEs.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 12:05 PM
Chung was actually the guy I was hoping the Texans would pick when they took Barwin. I wouldn't mind having him in place of Quin if he was cheaper. Both would be nice, but unrealistic given how little this team cares about safeties.

Yeah, we were talking about Chung pre-draft; but now I'm concerned about his injury history.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 12:13 PM
Well considering by your sites own disclaimer, the rating doesn't tell the whole story. There are plenty of names on that list ahead of Quin who are not quite as good or as young as Quin IMO. Especially if you consider a player such as Chung who wasn't even starting at the end of the season for his respective team.

I obviously believe he is higher then #18 & ultimately I believe he should be paid less then Manning, in the $3-4M/year range possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered him more because just as the Texans did w/ Manning, who wasn't a starter in Chicago, someone will pay a bit more for potential & youth. The difference is Quin is a starter while Manning never was for a long duration w/ the Bears.

While the $3-4M salary range is in line with a player of Quin's experience, I can't say that his play deserves it.

The Bears wanted Manning to play at CB, especially at the nickel position (kinda like Quin) and also to return kick; so he wasn't listed as a starter in 08; otherwise, he's a starter since his rookie year. I would say when they moved him to safety full-time, he became the glue of that defense; why the Texans had to offer him so much money to land him.

thunderkyss
03-06-2013, 12:25 PM
Quin is graded at #18 among Free Agents available.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-safeties/

How much should the Texans offer him, whether you agree with their grading or not.

I'd like to pay him in the $3-$4M/yr range. But I would be willing to go as high as $5M..... but since we paid Manning $5M/yr, & I think (and I think Quin & his agent thinks) Quin had a better year than Manning, he should be paid more than Manning.

This PFF rankings is another of their lists that I just don't get. Is Jairus Byrd a better safety than Quin?
I'm sure most people here would probably argue that he is. However, if we replaced Quin with Byrd & had Byrd play the way Quin does..... I don't think anyone would be wanting to keep him.

For what we're asking Quin to do, I do not rank Jairus Byrd higher than Glover. If we were talking about Manning... sure.

May not mean much around here, but Quin had 14 passes defensed (http://www.nfl.com/player/gloverquin/71441/profile) in 2012. I believe 2nd only to Watt on our team. 2 INts, 2 FF, 1 sack

76Texan
03-06-2013, 12:27 PM
I'd like to pay him in the $3-$4M/yr range. But I would be willing to go as high as $5M..... but since we paid Manning $5M/yr, & I think (and I think Quin & his agent thinks) Quin had a better year than Manning, he should be paid more than Manning.

This PFF rankings is another of their lists that I just don't get. Is Jairus Byrd a better safety than Quin?
I'm sure most people here would probably argue that he is. However, if we replaced Quin with Byrd & had Byrd play the way Quin does..... I don't think anyone would be wanting to keep him.

For what we're asking Quin to do, I do not rank Jairus Byrd higher than Glover. If we were talking about Manning... sure.

I am sure I don't understand what you're trying to say; too confusing, LOL.

Can you rephrase it, please!

thunderkyss
03-06-2013, 12:33 PM
I am sure I don't understand what you're trying to say; too confusing, LOL.

Can you rephrase it, please!


I don't think you can play Byrd in the box like you can Quin.

Byrd is a center fielder, Quin is a smallish thumper.

but Quin had 14 passes defensed in 2012. I believe 2nd only to Watt on our team. 2 INts, 2 FF, 1 sack

76Texan
03-06-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't think you can play Byrd in the box like you can Quin.

Byrd is a center fielder, Quin is a smallish thumper.

OK; I haven't watched him play lately (Byrd) so I don't know what to make of that.

It doesn't mean he can't play the same position Quin played though.
He was a CB in college and a physical one at that.

thunderkyss
03-06-2013, 12:54 PM
OK; I haven't watched him play lately (Byrd) so I don't know what to make of that.

It doesn't mean he can't play the same position Quin played though.
He was a CB in college and a physical one at that.

Still, you're comparing two players because their both classified as "Safeties" & they go about playing the game totally different. Quin plays like a SS (I don't know it he's listed as a SS, but that's what he plays) & Byrd is a FS.


If you're a team that favors the SS (like the Texans in the past) then you're going to rank Quin higher than Byrd. If you're a team that favors FS, then you'll rank Byrd higher.

Manning is also a "good" cover safety who plays physical, but I don't think he would be as good as Quin playing in the box as much as Quin does, manning up as much as Quin does. I'd prefer if Manning was allowed to roam in deep space, which I think he is much better at.

b0ng
03-06-2013, 02:12 PM
You can argue the merits of any of those above him but you gotta admit, the list of players under him are largely "just a guys". Quin is an OK player...but he's nothing special.

The safety position is the NFL is largely "Just Guys" with a few standouts. I'd be willing to bet money that a team that plays man coverage in their secondary (Like the Bengals) is going to take a relatively long and hard look at Glover Quin to replace their SS (who is rated higher than Quin is).

Maybe I'm wrong and none of the teams in the NFL would give Quin the time of day to be a starter. However I see three maybe four guys on that list who people could argue are more desirable SS's.

William Moore
Dashon Goldson
Kenny Phillips (maybe)
George Wilson

76Texan
03-06-2013, 02:39 PM
Still, you're comparing two players because their both classified as "Safeties" & they go about playing the game totally different. Quin plays like a SS (I don't know it he's listed as a SS, but that's what he plays) & Byrd is a FS.


If you're a team that favors the SS (like the Texans in the past) then you're going to rank Quin higher than Byrd. If you're a team that favors FS, then you'll rank Byrd higher.

Manning is also a "good" cover safety who plays physical, but I don't think he would be as good as Quin playing in the box as much as Quin does, manning up as much as Quin does. I'd prefer if Manning was allowed to roam in deep space, which I think he is much better at.
Understood!

I'm not comparing any guy though; that was just a list showing how PFF grade those players according to what they think those players were supposed to do their job (whatever that job might be.)

We just don't know if Manning and Byrd can do the same job Quin does better or worse because they weren't asked to do it as often. We can't say one way or another; and with Quin not doing that job very well (not great, not badly), who is to say the other guys can't do it?

It looks like Pollard, in 3 or 4 games that I watched him play last year, did a better job than Quin. (Maybe he finally learns how to do it; maybe the Ravens had a better scheme; maybe they do a better job teaching; heck I don't know.)

deucetx
03-06-2013, 03:05 PM
Yeah have to agree with 76 here. No reason to even think Byrd couldn't as we're talking similar body types and Quin is still a corner moved over to safety in the end of things. We're not talking a Bernard Pollard type. And yes, Manning has done it too. He did it for the Bears. He played free safety, nickleback, strong safety then back to free safety during his tenure with the Bears and he was darn good in the box when called upon.

It's basically as all stated. Quin has been all around good but not exceptional at anything. While he had a good amount of passes defended on some accounts (PD's varies from one place to the next) he still allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and was third in touchdowns allowed among safeties with 6. So he is a middle player at this point.

The issue is at this juncture we can't afford to lose a 'solid' contributor due to lack of depth at the spot and a few holes where we need something more and the potential is still there as he hasn't hit the peak year yet.

eriadoc
03-06-2013, 03:15 PM
The safety position is the NFL is largely "Just Guys" with a few standouts.

I think this is my difficulty with figuring out where Quin ranks. There are some guys that I would definitely put ahead of him, but then there is this mass of players that are all kind of middle tier average to slightly above average kind of guys. So I could conceivably understand an argument that put Quin at the 5th best safety, even if he was tied with a dozen guys LOL.

I'm not saying that he's a top 5. As I said in another thread, I don't really know where to rank him. I see four or five guys I'd rank ahead of him, but then I see a bunch of guys I rank him even with. Safety play isn't something I watch a lot of on other teams though, so there you go.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 03:35 PM
At the end of the day, I think the 20/80 rule still applies; as somebody had mentioned before.

The Texans currently have 14 guys earning close to $3M average a year (including Watt whose contract was close to $12M over 4 years) or more - with Watt at the bottom of that list.

Unless they cut/trade one of them (W. Smith, A. smith, Walter), they will have problem offering Quin and/or Barwin much.

But if they cut one of those guys, they still need to find replacement just the same. It's just a matter whom they think belong to the core player group; and then they will just have to fill the rest of the roster with whomever they can get.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 03:39 PM
And then there are guys they will have to take care of next year, and the year after next.

I don't know; maybe we'll just have to get use to losing a player here and there.

Dutchrudder
03-06-2013, 04:11 PM
I think this is my difficulty with figuring out where Quin ranks. There are some guys that I would definitely put ahead of him, but then there is this mass of players that are all kind of middle tier average to slightly above average kind of guys. So I could conceivably understand an argument that put Quin at the 5th best safety, even if he was tied with a dozen guys LOL.

I'm not saying that he's a top 5. As I said in another thread, I don't really know where to rank him. I see four or five guys I'd rank ahead of him, but then I see a bunch of guys I rank him even with. Safety play isn't something I watch a lot of on other teams though, so there you go.

Are you speaking of the safety position in general, or just among free agents? Because if we are talking across the league, I can think of plenty of guys I would rather have than Quin. Now if you want to get more deep and say specifically SS types that can cover and play up in the box on run situations, then we might get him closer to top 5 territory, but even then I think it's a stretch to get him that high.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 04:30 PM
Are you speaking of the safety position in general, or just among free agents? Because if we are talking across the league, I can think of plenty of guys I would rather have than Quin. Now if you want to get more deep and say specifically SS types that can cover and play up in the box on run situations, then we might get him closer to top 5 territory, but even then I think it's a stretch to get him that high.

Quin is in the top five in giving up TDs, does that count?:hides:

amazing80
03-06-2013, 04:32 PM
I think some of you are over rating Quin, he is a non play making safety who fits our team but has little value to anyone else. He will be retained for 3 m a season and this will mean we cut walter.

as for barwin, who knows, im ok with losing him, but we would need a replacement.

thunderkyss
03-06-2013, 05:11 PM
I think some of you are over rating Quin, he is a non play making safety who fits our team but has little value to anyone else. He will be retained for 3 m a season and this will mean we cut walter.

.

I won't lie. I'm a fan.

He gets his hands on more balls (:hides:) than anyone on the team save Jj Watt & Kareem. I like to think it's because his coverage is that tight, that he can actually challenge a ball in the air, or knock it out of the receivers hands.

I like that he'll take on an offensive lineman that outweighs him by a hundred pounds & clog a hole if he doesn't beat the guy. I like that his tackles in run support are at the LOS, or pretty close.

I think he's a hardnosed, blue collar type.... Brieselish if you will.

So yeah, I'm a little biased, maybe full homer.

But I still don't want to overpay (> $5M/yr)

eriadoc
03-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Are you speaking of the safety position in general, or just among free agents? Because if we are talking across the league, I can think of plenty of guys I would rather have than Quin. Now if you want to get more deep and say specifically SS types that can cover and play up in the box on run situations, then we might get him closer to top 5 territory, but even then I think it's a stretch to get him that high.

I'm talking about safeties that can play the style of safety that Wade Phillips wants. And I don't mean to give the impression that I consider Quin a top 5 safety, but rather that there is a giant middle tier of guys that are all roughly equivalent that you might like in a different order from me. I just don't think there are that many great safeties right now. Part of that is just the evolution of the game.

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 07:19 PM
I won't lie. I'm a fan.

He gets his hands on more balls (:hides:) than anyone on the team save Jj Watt & Kareem. I like to think it's because his coverage is that tight, that he can actually challenge a ball in the air, or knock it out of the receivers hands.

I like that he'll take on an offensive lineman that outweighs him by a hundred pounds & clog a hole if he doesn't beat the guy. I like that his tackles in run support are at the LOS, or pretty close.

I think he's a hardnosed, blue collar type.... Brieselish if you will.

So yeah, I'm a little biased, maybe full homer.

But I still don't want to overpay (> $5M/yr)

I am very much w/ you on this one. I'm a fan of Quin because he is solid & for the most part very dependable on the backend. He's young & still has room to develop as a safety considering he has only played the position 2 years & faired pretty well in that short amount of time. I unfortunately believe that once again we Texan fans are shortchanging one of our better players & foolishly over criticizing him to convince ourselves that he won't be much of a lose if he is not to return. That was a foolish mistake made in the past w/ players such as Dunta, DeMeco, Winston, Briesel, & Dreesen. I read over & over about how those players being lost wouldn't be much of an impact on the Texans & that was completely false. This seems like a replay of all those from the past & in the end we regretted the lose of them...I think this story may play out in the same fashion. I am a fan of Quin's because he does have some talent & room to grow & I believe there are other teams who will believe the same as the Texans will be left with yet another hole that will surely be filled by a lesser player for at least a year or 2. :choke:

I've never been much of the "bash the ex-Texan just because Rick won't pay them" type of guy & it doesn't look like it will change any time soon. Once again, the fact that we still have Walter on this team & potentially could lose Quin...in all honesty...disgusts me.