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View Full Version : Would you be mad if the Texans drafted the top rated Safety


thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 07:04 PM
With #27?

Let's say the top rated safety is still on the board at 27, do you think the Texans should draft him?


This is what I'm thinking. Danieal didn't have a great 2012. To me, it looked like he was "trying" to be as good as he was in 2011, found himself out of position a lot & his man cover skills are suspect (jmo).

I know Quin is our main cover TE. But Danieal is asked to do it as well, more times than I like, leaving Keo/Demps to play center field. I much rather Manning stay back & play center field.

So let's say we pick the best safety in this draft (I don't know who that would be) & as the best, I'm going to assume he has good man coverage skills, he's versatile enough to play in the box, & he's got pretty good range when needed.

We could start Quin (if we resign/franchise him) start Manning, then on passing downs, bring the rook in, leaving Manning back deep. He'd get playing time, he'll be allowed to acclimate, he'll be "earning" playing time.

If everything works out, we cut Manning after 2013, saving $4.5M against the 2014 cap. (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/danieal-manning/)

What do you think?

PapaL
02-26-2013, 07:08 PM
With as often as we use 3 Safety's I would not mind this at all.

I do however like what Manning brings to the team and don't see him being booted anytime soon...especially w our leadership in question since last year's cuts.

aussie_texan
02-26-2013, 07:16 PM
the only reason i would be mad is because if we are drafting S in the 1st its because we lost quin in FA

badboy
02-26-2013, 07:18 PM
Yep pretty mad. Too many lower round guys who are quite satisfactory.

mussop
02-26-2013, 08:34 PM
NOPE!! I don't really care what position we draft in the first so long as they start. I really really want one of the top DT's but as long as we are adding high quality starter ill be happy.

steelbtexan
02-26-2013, 08:44 PM
Yes I would be mad.

If a S was drafted he wouldn't be a starter. The Texans need a starter coming out of the 1st rd.

TexansSeminole
02-26-2013, 09:58 PM
Not at all. Like Papal said, he would be used alot even as a 3rd safety.

WolverineFan
02-26-2013, 11:11 PM
I would be ecstatic if we drafted Matt Elam.

Brandon420tx
02-26-2013, 11:40 PM
I'd be good with it

Wolf6151
02-27-2013, 01:56 AM
Yes I'd be mad. We've got much bigger holes on the team than backup Safety. I agree we should get better at #3 Safety but not in the 1st round or even the first 3 rounds. There's much bigger needs at NT, WR, ILB, and O-line depth. Besides I want a really tall Safety like TJ McDonald, or a converted CB like Tharold Simon.

greekdbag
02-27-2013, 02:09 AM
Yeah, I hope the first four picks include a DT, a WR, an LB, and an OT. Then with their fourth round pick they can get a DB.

TexansSeminole
02-27-2013, 02:19 AM
Yes I'd be mad. We've got much bigger holes on the team than backup Safety. I agree we should get better at #3 Safety but not in the 1st round or even the first 3 rounds. There's much bigger needs at NT, WR, ILB, and O-line depth. Besides I want a really tall Safety like TJ McDonald, or a converted CB like Tharold Simon.

Why a really tall safety? I don't understand the thought process behind that.

Also Simon is garbage, he pretty much got beat by every quality receiver he ever faced. He is one of those guys I watched and scratched off my list awhile ago.

I think people are going to be surprised how quickly Manning's game declines. It may not happen this year, but we should prepare for it to happen here in the next two or three years.

Dread-Head
02-27-2013, 02:31 AM
:thinking: So you're asking if I would be upset if the sharks in our shark tank suddenly had lasers attached to their heads? Uh...NO. I'd be doing a happy dance!

Wolf6151
02-27-2013, 02:42 AM
Why a really tall safety? I don't understand the thought process behind that.

Also Simon is garbage, he pretty much got beat by every quality receiver he ever faced. He is one of those guys I watched and scratched off my list awhile ago.

I think people are going to be surprised how quickly Manning's game declines. It may not happen this year, but we should prepare for it to happen here in the next two or three years.

The idea of having a tall Safety is that we'd have better coverage on these new era tall/athletic TE's.

As for Simon, he got burnt by WR's, thus the idea of moving him to Safety so that he can cover TE's on 3rd down situations.

beerlover
02-27-2013, 03:05 AM
you mean the top rated safety drops to the Texans? I could live with Dee Milliner. I really think that's his best position next level. Rhodes & Banks as well.

Trufant is easily the best CB & I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to Chip Kelly & the Eagles instead of Milliner @ #4. But there are about 4 or 5 CB's I would take over the top classified top safety prospect Kenny Vaccaro. Like BB said plenty of good safeties later as well, not the smartest move, IMO.

Playoffs
02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
Milliner, Trufant, and Vaccaro will be off the board before 27. Maybe more, so we won't have a shot at the top rated DBs.

thunderkyss
02-27-2013, 10:16 AM
Yes I'd be mad. We've got much bigger holes on the team than backup Safety.

In the short term, I agree. We have much bigger needs. However, the salary cap won't be going up next season either & cutting or trading Danieal Manning would save us $4.5M against the cap.

Right now, we're in trouble if we aren't able to hold on to Glover Quin & even though franchising will hurt cap position, we may not have a choice... at least not a good choice.

The time to prepare for possibly losing Danieal Manning is now. If his replacement is already on the team, then we have options next offseason we don't have now with our Quin situation.

badboy
02-28-2013, 05:00 PM
you mean the top rated safety drops to the Texans? I could live with Dee Milliner. I really think that's his best position next level. Rhodes & Banks as well.

Trufant is easily the best CB & I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to Chip Kelly & the Eagles instead of Milliner @ #4. But there are about 4 or 5 CB's I would take over the top classified top safety prospect Kenny Vaccaro. Like BB said plenty of good safeties later as well, not the smartest move, IMO.

100% agree with your evaluation of DBs. Banks cost himself a bit of $ during his combine. I wished we could get Trufant somehow and still get NT and WR. I guess it is possible especially if we could end up with 3 second round picks.

JimBaker488
03-01-2013, 10:02 PM
Absolutely

Corrosion
03-02-2013, 08:28 PM
I wouldnt be bothered by it at all .... With as much as they play nickle and dime coverage I think its a good investment even if they retain Quin which I really hope they do as he is key to what they do on the back end.

The other needs they have like WR and ILB have depth and value into the 3rd and 4th rounds respectively.

The only issue I'd have is not getting one of the top NT's .... but they might be able to fill that void in FA - Dont see Cody returning as the cost and injury issues just dont add up.


Ideally you would trade out of the first round to an early #2 and pick up two of NT , WR , S.

beerlover
03-02-2013, 09:50 PM
I wouldnt be bothered by it at all .... With as much as they play nickle and dime coverage I think its a good investment even if they retain Quin which I really hope they do as he is key to what they do on the back end.

The other needs they have like WR and ILB have depth and value into the 3rd and 4th rounds respectively.

The only issue I'd have is not getting one of the top NT's .... but they might be able to fill that void in FA - Dont see Cody returning as the cost and injury issues just dont add up.


Ideally you would trade out of the first round to an early #2 and pick up two of NT , WR , S.

If Texans cannot retain Quin I could live with a Matt Elam but that would be based off need. Is that really an option Texans can afford?

Clearly hitting target @ WR is a priority.

Improved OL pass pro & run blocking.

Disruptive penetrator @ nose tackle.

Playmaking ILB next to Cushing.

RDE to bookend Watt & rotate with Smith to retirement.

Franchise QB?

OLB to replace Barwin (would rather see money invested elsewhere).

Those are your principle building blocks to Texans future success, IMO!

Corrosion
03-02-2013, 10:55 PM
If Texans cannot retain Quin I could live with a Matt Elam but that would be based off need. Is that really an option Texans can afford?

Clearly hitting target @ WR is a priority.

Improved OL pass pro & run blocking.

Disruptive penetrator @ nose tackle.

Playmaking ILB next to Cushing.

RDE to bookend Watt & rotate with Smith to retirement.

Franchise QB?

OLB to replace Barwin (would rather see money invested elsewhere).

Those are your principle building blocks to Texans future success, IMO!

I dont at all disagree with the list of needs ... Just dont think you can solve all those issues in one draft. They have to hit on a cheap FA or two.

I'd move RDE down to the bottom of the list tho - unless they cut Smith.

QB .... I'd move to the top of the list if the rest of the team wasnt as good as it is. As it stands now , I think you have to run with Schaub and put him in the best possible situation for the coming season.

Next season .... I'd like to find his eventual replacement. Just not sure there are any franchise types coming out in 2014.

beerlover
03-02-2013, 11:51 PM
I dont at all disagree with the list of needs ... Just dont think you can solve all those issues in one draft. They have to hit on a cheap FA or two.

I'd move RDE down to the bottom of the list tho - unless they cut Smith.

QB .... I'd move to the top of the list if the rest of the team wasnt as good as it is. As it stands now , I think you have to run with Schaub and put him in the best possible situation for the coming season.

Next season .... I'd like to find his eventual replacement. Just not sure there are any franchise types coming out in 2014.

unconsciously or not (those just came to mind) doesn't reflect where they're selected. It's all about nailing picks as they fall with bpa who fit your scheme & need. I'm unsure anymore how to write a mock draft without preclusion's? Free agency will have some bearing on need factor. Get Greg Jennings that would be a home run. Add another fallen Cowboy, Jay Ratliff that would relieve tremendous pressure on this defense in the middle. So many variables.

I only understand player evaluation & the draft not salary cap ramifications, accounting or politics. When I mock it will be based off my draft grade & mine alone, however & this is something I've give a lot of thought to, is a player who is worthy of being named a Texan. What does that mean? It means a player who will out work you, a player that is smart both on & off the field, it means toughness but fairness, it means a team player who puts teammates first, in other words it's JJ Watts team & anybody who can follow in his footsteps, that is worthy is welcome aboard.

BL :swatter:

ObsiWan
03-06-2013, 12:52 AM
NOPE!! I don't really care what position we draft in the first so long as they start. I really really want one of the top DT's but as long as we are adding high quality starter ill be happy.

Yes I would be mad.

If a S was drafted he wouldn't be a starter. The Texans need a starter coming out of the 1st rd.

Yes I'd be mad. We've got much bigger holes on the team than backup Safety. I agree we should get better at #3 Safety but not in the 1st round or even the first 3 rounds. There's much bigger needs at NT, WR, ILB, and O-line depth. Besides I want a really tall Safety like TJ McDonald, or a converted CB like Tharold Simon.

The days of our 1st round pick HAVING to be a starter are behind us (see Mercilus - he didn't immediately start) and hopefully things STAY that way. That means we don't have any HUGE holes in our lineup and are in reload (like the Patriots), not rebuild mode.

I'd be amazed if our 1st pick was anything other than an OLB (assuming Barwin is gone) or a WR (based on the noises McNair has been making). A stud rookie in one of those two spots has the best chance to crack the starting lineup imho.

I suppose one could add ILB to that list but from what you draftniks are saying there won't be anyone of 1st-rd quality at that position when our turn comes up.

Dread-Head
03-06-2013, 11:12 AM
HELL NO. Anything that makes Tom Brady have to work harder when he plays the Texans...is a good thing.

GP
03-06-2013, 12:55 PM
This team has to get Brian Cushing or JJ Watt-type starting-caliber players in the 1st round.

We pretty much have to make a pick #27 that halfway through the season all of the media talking heads are saying that our #27 pick should have been the 1st overall pick in the draft (a.k.a JJ Watt caliber).

I think all of us should be honest that last year's Mericuls pick in round 1 is shaky right now...will he explode into domination in his sophomore year, or will he be another almost-was-but-won't-quite-be player like Amobi? Honestly, if he wasn't cracking the starting rotation during a year that saw practically every LB go down to injury...what does that say about his potential? Because our defense doesn't need 1st rounders who are more like a more-talented 3rd rounder. Know what I'm saying? JJ Watt has spoiled us, in a way. We see that our team CAN draft a first rounder who plays like a first rounder right out of the gate.

And so for me, whatever player or position that is, doesn't matter to me. I want us to hit a home run with our 1st round pick and be prudent and wise with rounds 2, 3, and 4. The later rounds of 5, 6, and 7 are a crap shoot.

If we continue to draft well in round 1, and make solid choices in rounds 2, 3, and 4. I'll be happy.

I don't want to see any Jacoby Jones or Amobi Okoye type "project" picks. We have arguably the best team in the AFC South. The way you stay there is by picking wisely and stocking the shelves....while your div rivals reach and make bad decisions.

Then again, we have a situation at QB that frankly might make render useless ANY great draft choices we make if Andrew Luck continues to grow. He's got age AND talent level on his side, tbh. Better damn sure improve the defense in order to keep pace. Yeah, we're there again: Trying to stop a Colts offense. Ugh.

beerlover
03-06-2013, 01:29 PM
This team has to get Brian Cushing or JJ Watt-type starting-caliber players in the 1st round.

We pretty much have to make a pick #27 that halfway through the season all of the media talking heads are saying that our #27 pick should have been the 1st overall pick in the draft (a.k.a JJ Watt caliber).

I think all of us should be honest that last year's Mericuls pick in round 1 is shaky right now...will he explode into domination in his sophomore year, or will he be another almost-was-but-won't-quite-be player like Amobi? Honestly, if he wasn't cracking the starting rotation during a year that saw practically every LB go down to injury...what does that say about his potential? Because our defense doesn't need 1st rounders who are more like a more-talented 3rd rounder. Know what I'm saying? JJ Watt has spoiled us, in a way. We see that our team CAN draft a first rounder who plays like a first rounder right out of the gate.

And so for me, whatever player or position that is, doesn't matter to me. I want us to hit a home run with our 1st round pick and be prudent and wise with rounds 2, 3, and 4. The later rounds of 5, 6, and 7 are a crap shoot.

If we continue to draft well in round 1, and make solid choices in rounds 2, 3, and 4. I'll be happy.

I don't want to see any Jacoby Jones or Amobi Okoye type "project" picks. We have arguably the best team in the AFC South. The way you stay there is by picking wisely and stocking the shelves....while your div rivals reach and make bad decisions.

Then again, we have a situation at QB that frankly might make render useless ANY great draft choices we make if Andrew Luck continues to grow. He's got age AND talent level on his side, tbh. Better damn sure improve the defense in order to keep pace. Yeah, we're there again: Trying to stop a Colts offense. Ugh.

Good Post!

In regards to impact player with any 1st rd. pick if he becomes a starter now or later it really depends upon too many factors to say after one or two years he is a bust. Some strive & succeed early, Cushing/Watt others take time to develop, KJ/Brown/Mercilus. This is probably just as much on coaching as individual player(s) are concerned. I think we all feel more confident in at least our defensive position coaches both on front line as well back end. If they feel its in the team & players best interest to improve fundamental & game preparation before throwing them into the fire before ready I'm OK with that, even if said player doesn't have the kind of immediate impact you would typically like from a high round investment. Duane Brown wasn't exactly tearing it up as a rookie but look at him now. It is even more important to have a longer view towards players designated to be your foundation pieces. This probably more than anything is why people are up in arms over Schaub. Because he has held that position solo, without any real competition since 2007. And while the trend-line shows steady improvement towards playoff success many will argue, rightly-fully so, that he is responsible for setting a limit on just how far he can lead a team in the postseason. Hence from a draft perspective building a franchise around a centerpiece with limited upside may dictate bringing in more serious competition rather than remaining status-quo.

So if the right QB prospect is available with the 27th pick (____ _______) it absolutely fits into their draft philosophy.

BL :wesmantexanfan:

El Tejano
03-06-2013, 01:58 PM
, leaving Keo/Demps to play center field.

And that right there is why I wouldn't mind getting the top rated S in the draft at #27 and all you have to do is go back and look at both games vs. Indy to understand what I'm saying.

How does anyone feel about Kenny Vaccaro from Texas? And no I'm not a Longhorn die hard that wants the Texans to draft longhorns every year.

thunderkyss
03-06-2013, 04:04 PM
This team has to get Brian Cushing or JJ Watt-type starting-caliber players in the 1st round.

We pretty much have to make a pick #27 that halfway through the season all of the media talking heads are saying that our #27 pick should have been the 1st overall pick in the draft (a.k.a JJ Watt caliber).

I agree with the overall thought, but I don't know if it's a "must have" the draft is still a crap shoot...

At the same time, we've gotten quality starters in later rounds before. OD, Demeco, Quin... all contributed very well their rookie year. JJ Watt turned it on at the end of his rookie year (as did Brooks Reed) but it wasn't until last year (his sophomore season) that anyone thought he was the best player in that draft.

But I get what you're saying.

steelbtexan
03-06-2013, 04:30 PM
And that right there is why I wouldn't mind getting the top rated S in the draft at #27 and all you have to do is go back and look at both games vs. Indy to understand what I'm saying.

How does anyone feel about Kenny Vaccaro from Texas? And no I'm not a Longhorn die hard that wants the Texans to draft longhorns every year.

Duke Williams in the 3rd/4th rd provides more value than Vaccaro in the 1st. IMHO

Hagar
03-07-2013, 01:04 AM
Free safeties are not suppose to get beat deap and it happened alot to Quin, so replacing him would be a good thing. I've heard its a deep draft for safeties, so we may not have to spend a first round pick to get a competant player.

thunderkyss
03-07-2013, 07:59 AM
Free safeties are not suppose to get beat deap and it happened alot to Quin, so replacing him would be a good thing. I've heard its a deep draft for safeties, so we may not have to spend a first round pick to get a competant player.

I think you're right in that Quin is labeled the Free Safety.... but I get the impression that he plays more of the SS role & Manning the FS. Either way, Manning, imo, is a much better FS & Quin a much better SS.

We need a safety, unlike Demps & Keo, that can play man coverage & in the box, similar to Quin so Manning can stay deep.

deucetx
03-07-2013, 10:42 AM
I would have no problem at all. We have to remember we had some major issues against teams who ran the spread so we're going to see that formation a lot. The top contenders in our conference run similar formations which means that safety may be on the field more times than not. I don't think of DB's only go with the mind the starters are the first two CB's and first two Safties because of all the spread formations. By second down, you're moving into nickle if not a dime/sub package.

That makes depth in the secondary highly vital. On top of this safeties are one of the positions that gets wore down quite a bit. Manning did play in the box when with the Bears so we're talking two safeties (if Quin is retained) that have been in the trenches and Wade likes using them in sub packages like another linebacker. That's some wear and tear for ya. You need bodies and flexibility to continue this way unless Wade adjusts his defense (which I hope).

So safety wouldn't be a bad choice. Plus our safety play wasn't a real highlight last year. It was...adequate.