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badboy
02-25-2013, 03:58 PM
New England reporting Brady extended thru 2017.

srrono
02-25-2013, 04:16 PM
Trade for Percy Harvin with money to sign next

deucetx
02-25-2013, 04:16 PM
To add to it not only was he extended but the guy basically took a pay cut. He got extended for 3 years 27 million dollars which of course will give the Patriots more room to make moves. In '13 and '14 alone he will now be $15 million dollars less against the cap than previously. Guess you can say what you will about the guy but for him it is about winning. He actually took less to help his team.

infantrycak
02-25-2013, 04:48 PM
To add to it not only was he extended but the guy basically took a pay cut. He got extended for 3 years 27 million dollars which of course will give the Patriots more room to make moves. In '13 and '14 alone he will now be $15 million dollars less against the cap than previously. Guess you can say what you will about the guy but for him it is about winning. He actually took less to help his team.

Please the guy is not being altruistic at all. He got $3 mil to add years to his contract that everyone in the world knows he won't play or won't play at that price. This was pure cap management.

ESAD2-14
02-25-2013, 07:39 PM
Please the guy is not being altruistic at all. He got $3 mil to add years to his contract that everyone in the world knows he won't play or won't play at that price. This was pure cap management.

Not only that but the dude could play for free until 2017 and not have to worry about anything financially, I think his wife makes more than him.

TheIronDuke
02-25-2013, 07:58 PM
Not only that but the dude could play for free until 2017 and not have to worry about anything financially, I think his wife makes more than him.

I think even Matt Schaub makes more than him.

Bulls on Parade
02-25-2013, 09:53 PM
Exactly why I was against re-signing Schaub too early. We should have taken a close and hard look at him this off-season, while he became an unrestricted free agent. Kudos to Tom Brady for helping his team create more salary cap space so they can add more good players to their roster. But I don't blame Matt Schaub at all for taking what was offered to him.

This is purely Rick Smith's fault for not understanding how to build a real champion. He over-pays past the market value for several players. And this was after we had already lost several good players last off-season due to salary restrictions: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans (traded), Jacoby Jones, Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel to name a few. I can even name Vonta Leach a few off-season ago. Apparently a pro bowl fullback playing with the current Super Bowl championship team wasn't worth the big bucks either.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/pats-sign-brady-to-deal-much-smaller-than-schaubs-extension/

Pats sign Brady to deal much smaller than Schaub’s

By: Jay Lee - Ultimate Texans

Sometimes the best quarterback isn’t the one making the most money.

According to a Sports Illustrated report Monday, Tom Brady has agreed to a three-year, $27 million extension with the Patriots. Need some context for that figure? The Texans’ Matt Schaub signed a four-year, $62 million extension last year, and the Jets’ Mark Sanchez received a three-year, $40 million extension.

Brady’s deal gives the Patriots a lot of salary-cap flexibility. His extension, according to the report, includes a $3 million signing bonus and salaries of $7 million in 2015, $8 million in 2016 and $9 million in 2017.

Brady has won three Super Bowls with the Patriots and is a two-time NFL MVP.

infantrycak
02-25-2013, 09:58 PM
I think even Matt Schaub makes more than him.

Schaub is set to get $7.25 mil and Brady will get $14.75 mil in 2013 (that is actual payments, rather than cap hit).

Bulls on Parade
02-25-2013, 10:08 PM
Schaub is set to get $7.25 mil and Brady will get $14.75 mil in 2013 (that is actual payments, rather than cap hit).
Money against the salary cap is all that matters. That's the difference in the Patriots likely winning another Super Bowl or two, by adding the players they need, instead of the Texans winning the Super Bowl. Now that Ray Lewis is retired: I believe the Patriots, Texans and Broncos will be the three favorites in the AFC entering 2013. But the Pats have the clear-cut advantage in terms of cap space.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2013, 10:19 PM
Not only that but the dude could play for free until 2017 and not have to worry about anything financially, I think his wife makes more than him.

I read his wife made $45 million last year

Wolf
02-25-2013, 10:52 PM
Good, I hope w draft well, get healthy and put Brady on his ass.

badboy
02-25-2013, 11:24 PM
Exactly why I was against re-signing Schaub too early. We should have taken a close and hard look at him this off-season, while he became an unrestricted free agent. Kudos to Tom Brady for helping his team create more salary cap space so they can add more good players to their roster. But I don't blame Matt Schaub at all for taking what was offered to him.

This is purely Rick Smith's fault for not understanding how to build a real champion. He over-pays past the market value for several players. And this was after we had already lost several good players last off-season due to salary restrictions: Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans (traded), Jacoby Jones, Eric Winston and Mike Brisiel to name a few. I can even name Vonta Leach a few off-season ago. Apparently a pro bowl fullback playing with the current Super Bowl championship team wasn't worth the big bucks either.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/pats-sign-brady-to-deal-much-smaller-than-schaubs-extension/

Pats sign Brady to deal much smaller than Schaubís

By: Jay Lee - Ultimate Texans

Sometimes the best quarterback isnít the one making the most money.

According to a Sports Illustrated report Monday, Tom Brady has agreed to a three-year, $27 million extension with the Patriots. Need some context for that figure? The Texansí Matt Schaub signed a four-year, $62 million extension last year, and the Jetsí Mark Sanchez received a three-year, $40 million extension.

Bradyís deal gives the Patriots a lot of salary-cap flexibility. His extension, according to the report, includes a $3 million signing bonus and salaries of $7 million in 2015, $8 million in 2016 and $9 million in 2017.

Brady has won three Super Bowls with the Patriots and is a two-time NFL MVP.Where would Texans be if they waited to this of season and Schaub took another offer? TJ Yates would be the starter. Not saying he could not succeed but no way is he better than Matt. I do not see any Qb there in first to beat out Yates. Texans made a great deal to lock in a playoff QB as no other option. It does not matter one iota what Brady signed for as he was not playing for us. It simply came down to Schaub or a drop way down in quality to replace him. You cannot just assume Matt would accept a deal in the off season. QBs are prime and he is one of the better ones. It is just as likely he would have gone elsewhere if Smith low balled him as remaining for a lesser deal.

infantrycak
02-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Money against the salary cap is all that matters.

I wasn't responding to a salary cap comment but thanks for poking your nose in without reading. Brady's salary cap hit will also be bigger than Schaub's this year. Your source Jay Lee is a fool to have ever typed that headline.

Playoffs
02-26-2013, 08:22 AM
I expect Patriots to use that money to resign Vollmer and Welker.

Interesting that Brady's restructuring down would be rejected by the collective bargaining agreement in baseball.

dream_team
02-26-2013, 08:30 AM
Where would Texans be if they waited to this of season and Schaub took another offer? TJ Yates would be the starter. Not saying he could not succeed but no way is he better than Matt. I do not see any Qb there in first to beat out Yates. Texans made a great deal to lock in a playoff QB as no other option. It does not matter one iota what Brady signed for as he was not playing for us. It simply came down to Schaub or a drop way down in quality to replace him. You cannot just assume Matt would accept a deal in the off season. QBs are prime and he is one of the better ones. It is just as likely he would have gone elsewhere if Smith low balled him as remaining for a lesser deal.

This!

If we waited, I think it would have cost similar to resign him. If he tested Free Agency, there's a good chance a team overpays him. Then what?

Dread-Head
02-26-2013, 08:30 AM
hate her...but she deserves it.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 08:44 AM
This is purely Rick Smith's fault for not understanding how to build a real champion.

Trust me, I have no love for Rick Smith, but I don't think he's the one demonstrating his lack of understanding here.


In all seriousness, what difference does it really make? If the Texans didn't sign Matt last offseason, they damn sure would have signed him this year for about the same money. I'd also venture to guess his cap hit last year was bigger than his cap hit will be in 2013.

Matt did nothing in 2012 to make me believe they would have offered him less money. He was the guy we expecting him to be, his foot did not appear (to me) to bother him & that was the only question the Texans had about him.

Dread-Head
02-26-2013, 09:12 AM
Where would Texans be if they waited to this of season and Schaub took another offer? 1. TJ Yates would be the starter.

Halle....bloody lujah...:thinking: Or Halle bloody Berry...pick your poison.

2. Not saying he could not succeed but no way is he better than Matt.

:spittake: :lol:

We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

:sarcasm: Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.


3. You cannot just assume Matt would accept a deal in the off season. QBs are prime and he is one of the better ones.

Meh.

4. It is just as likely he would have gone elsewhere if Smith low balled him as remaining for a lesser deal.

:thinking: Three teams with rookie QB's were in the play offs this year and ONE of those was IN the Superbowl. QB's aren't a dime a dozen, but if you are one of the few BLESSED enough to play QB you should play every down as if it is the LAST one of your career. Rodgers does that, Brees does that, Brady does that Roethisburger and Manning have made careers of it. Schaub sees 3 and out as "part of the game" and is content with hustling down the field to get into field goal range. Your goal as a QB should NOT be to make your kicker have a record year by making him the team's leading scorer, nor should you settle for it. If that is in fact the case YOU should be on the sidelines with the offense while your defense is on the field telling your receivers about weaknesses you spotted in the secondary on the last series. You should tell your O-line about patterns you've noticed in the defense and tells they give to indicate what package they're running OR how they're responding to audibles. In other words be IMMERSED in that game as the team leader. Schaub isn't that guy. He's a career back up and the past few years (IMHO) have borne that out. As long as we keep him where he is we'll be that group of perpetual bridesmaids who makes it to the 2nd round of the playoffs only to watch SOMEONE ELSE go to the big dance.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:15 AM
:thinking: Three teams with rookie QB's were in the play offs this year and ONE of those was IN the Superbowl.

:thinking: neither Kaepernick or Flacco were rookies in 2012.

Dread-Head
02-26-2013, 09:19 AM
:thinking: neither Kaepernick or Flacco were rookies in 2012.

Thought Kaepernick was a rookie. If he wasn't ESPN and the powers that be sure as hell made it seem like their narrative was "Harbaugh gives rookie nod over veteran...and goes to superbowl."

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:21 AM
... YOU should be on the sidelines with the offense while your defense is on the field telling your receivers about weaknesses you spotted in the secondary on the last series. You should tell your O-line about patterns you've noticed in the defense and tells they give to indicate what package they're running OR how they're responding to audibles. In other words be IMMERSED in that game as the team leader. Schaub isn't that guy. He's a career back up and the past few years (IMHO) have borne that out.

I do agree with this. I don't necessarily need to see Schaub yelling at his team, chewing people out or whatever, that doesn't say "leader" to me. It says "spoiled brat"

But I'd love to see more of Schaub talking to his receivers on the sideline. Whether they be WRs, TEs, RBs, or FBs. I'd like to know that he & they are talking about what they are seeing & trying to get on the same page. Same way with his OL.

I didn't watch much of the Pro Bowl. But what little bit I did watch, I saw Peyton talking to at least two of the receivers. They might have been talking about Buick endorsements for all I know, but it looked like they were sharing information about what they were seeing & what they were thinking & Peyton helping that receiver be more successful on the field.

I want to see that from my QB on the regular.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:25 AM
Thought Kaepernick was a rookie. If he wasn't ESPN and the powers that be sure as hell made it seem like their narrative was "Harbaugh gives rookie nod over veteran...and goes to superbowl."

Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick in his first season as HC of the 49ers... 2011. Most people didn't expect Alex Smith to finish the season as their starting QB. But they were on a roll, making it to the NFC Championship with very little resistance.

2012 was Harbaugh & Kaepernicks second season with the 49ers.

deucetx
02-26-2013, 09:25 AM
We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

:sarcasm: Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.


While I'm no Schaub fan I have to disagree on this part. Yates did not beat the Bengals. The Texans did. All Yates did was manage the game. His stat line was 11 for 20 for 159 yards and 1 touchdown. That's it. He did little to nothing other than stay out of the way and don't make mistakes. The win was more about the defense (Got to love Watt's INT) and Foster averaging 6.4 per carry.

And Baltimore...ugh the memories. Yates was freaking horrible and the main reason we lost. The defense held Baltimore including Rice and we out gained them in yards. But Jacoby and Yates turned the ball over four times and Yates completed less than 50% of his passes for a whopping 184 yards. He was horrible that game.

I can say I rather they waited til the end of the year to re-sign Schaub at least when it comes to the length of the deal. But money wise it isn't that big of a hit and falls in place market value wise so don't find it that much of a big deal.

As for Brady...sorry I have to disagree saying it isn't unselfish. Again, not even a Brady fan but doesn't mean I can't respect him for what he did. His wife makes money? That's nice. Still in a sport where many players hold out or seek deals simply because they feel they are top of their position and deserve to be paid as such it's nice to see someone say they'll take a smaller salary so the team can make moves. Like him or hate him he is still argued to be one of the best to play his position all time and easily is worth double that contract and that flimsy 3 million signing. So I can give a man credit where do.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:31 AM
As for Brady...sorry I have to disagree saying it isn't unselfish. Again, not even a Brady fan but doesn't mean I can't respect him for what he did. His wife makes money? That's nice. Still in a sport where many players hold out or seek deals simply because they feel they are top of their position and deserve to be paid as such it's nice to see someone say they'll take a smaller salary so the team can make moves. Like him or hate him he is still argued to be one of the best to play his position all time and easily is worth double that contract and that flimsy 3 million signing. So I can give a man credit where do.

Kevin Walter took a pay cut. At the end of the day, for that year & the life of the contract, he's going to make less money than he would have with the original deal.

I don't think that is the case with Brady. I'll have to look at it. But adding years to bring the cap number down does not equal a pay cut. Now, he is signed through the 2017 season right? I bet he gets another "extension" before that. He'll make more money with this extension over the same time period as he would have without the extension. This is a "win-win" for both parties. The team gets more cap flexibility, Brady gets more money up front.

76Texan
02-26-2013, 10:23 AM
I think even Matt Schaub makes more than him.

The numbers for Brady don't add up.
There's no way that his cap hit can be reduced without the Patriots giving him some more bonus money.

Dutchrudder
02-26-2013, 11:07 AM
This deal isn't anywhere near as good as the sports pundits are making it out to be. He went from 2 years 30 million left on his deal to 5 years 70.6 million. 57 million is the new money, but because it's an extension and he had existing signing bonus left on his deal, it's still a pricey contract. The salaries are low, but any player will tell you they would rather have signing bonus money rather than future salary. Get that money ASAP so they can't avoid paying you. Anyways, his cap structure is about 3 million more than Schaub's is next year.

Regarding Brady's salary cap charges, the breakdown is as follows:

2013: $13.8 million

2014: $14.8 million

2015: $13 million

2016: $14 million

2017: $15 million

The new contract also provides Brady more financial protection in the event he suffers a career-ending injury in 2013, increasing the money guaranteed to him from $25 million to $57 million. Brady has already suffered one catastrophic injury in his career, at the beginning of the 2008 season.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8990773/tom-brady-guarantees-nearly-doubled-deal-source

Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

dream_team
02-26-2013, 12:12 PM
We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

:sarcasm: Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.


First of all... I'm not a believer in one guy wins or loses a game. It's a team game. But using your logic... yes, we're talking about the SAME TJ Yates that lost to the worst team in the league (Colts). The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 18.6 points a game, while Schaub averaged 27.3 a game. The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 322.8 yards/game, while Schaub averaged 396.2 yards/game.

And in regards to your Baltimore statement, I assume that's a joke. I won't even touch it.

I'm actually a fan of TJ, I like his potential... but as of right now, I'm extremely happy we're not going into next season with Yates as the starter.

Double Barrel
02-26-2013, 12:21 PM
First of all... I'm not a believer in one guy wins or loses a game. It's a team game. But using your logic... yes, we're talking about the SAME TJ Yates that lost to the worst team in the league (Colts).


Hold on a second. Let's re-visit that game (play-by-play link) (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=311222011&period=4).

TJ had that game at 16-12 with 1:56 left on the game clock.

It was the DEFENSE that gave up a game winning drive in the two minute warning to Dan Orlovsky.

I'm not sure how you can blame TJ Yates for the failure of "one of the best defenses in the league".

infantrycak
02-26-2013, 12:26 PM
the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

Wow, loosen up the band on your dreads. Your Schaub hate is making you delusional.

46% 184 yds 0 TD's 3 INT's 28.8 QBR

Man that sure does look considerably better than:

66.7% 343 yds 2 TD's 1 INT 90.6 QBR

76Texan
02-26-2013, 12:27 PM
From what I read, Brady got $30 in bonus.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.

Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.

Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.

Dutchrudder
02-26-2013, 12:40 PM
From what I read, Brady got $30 in bonus.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.

Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.

Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.

The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/BradyContract_zpsa44efe2c.jpg

http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Tom%20Brady&Position=QB&Team=Patriots

His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.

dream_team
02-26-2013, 12:43 PM
Hold on a second. Let's re-visit that game (play-by-play link) (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=311222011&period=4).

TJ had that game at 16-12 with 1:56 left on the game clock.

It was the DEFENSE that gave up a game winning drive in the two minute warning to Dan Orlovsky.

I'm not sure how you can blame TJ Yates for the failure of "one of the best defenses in the league".

I agree 100%! Like I said in my post, teams win/lose a game, not one person. I was simply using Dread's own reasoning against him, using team performance to measure a QB's performance.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2013, 12:48 PM
This deal isn't anywhere near as good as the sports pundits are making it out to be. He went from 2 years 30 million left on his deal to 5 years 70.6 million. 57 million is the new money, but because it's an extension and he had existing signing bonus left on his deal, it's still a pricey contract. The salaries are low, but any player will tell you they would rather have signing bonus money rather than future salary. Get that money ASAP so they can't avoid paying you. Anyways, his cap structure is about 3 million more than Schaub's is next year.



http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8990773/tom-brady-guarantees-nearly-doubled-deal-source

Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

Bolded. NO, and that is the point. They won't care when he is 40. This deal is made to allow them to be competitive for a few more prime years by surrounding him with more. That's it. Win now while we have one of the greatest QBs around. After that who cares.

Dutchrudder
02-26-2013, 12:56 PM
Bolded. NO, and that is the point. They won't care when he is 40. This deal is made to allow them to be competitive for a few more prime years by surrounding him with more. That's it. Win now while we have one of the greatest QBs around. After that who cares.

I'm pretty sure they saved all of 2 million dollars of cap space in 2013/14 combined from this extension. If someone has something that says otherwise, let me know. An extension like that for 2 million in cap space is pretty dumb if you ask me.

Dread-Head
02-26-2013, 02:35 PM
To those who are disagreeing with me on this one I say this. There are INTANGIBLES involved in playing the position of QB. Certain leadership qualities which a defensive coordinator won't be able to pick apart by studying GAME FILM. I'm of the opinion that Schaub despite being the starter heer for some time still THINKS like the backup he started his being.


A back up's job is:

a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.

b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.

c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.

That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:

a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time

b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.

c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."

Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.

TexanSam
02-26-2013, 02:42 PM
To those who are disagreeing with me on this one I say this. There are INTANGIBLES involved in playing the position of QB. Certain leadership qualities which a defensive coordinator won't be able to pick apart by studying GAME FILM. I'm of the opinion that Schaub despite being the starter heer for some time still THINKS like the backup he started his being.


A back up's job is:

a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.

b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.

c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.

That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:

a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time

b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.

c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."

Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.

I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 02:43 PM
Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

If Schaub is still our QB I can guarantee we'll act like it.

Dread-Head
02-26-2013, 02:48 PM
I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.


Put the AVERAGE Rookie QB who has ZERO trigger time in a playoff ROAD game against a VETERAN defense with one of the BEST safties in the League (Ed Reed) and I'll wager they wouldn't look half as good. Schaub is "Good" but lacks that fire that would make him GREAT. Does he deserve to be in the NFL? Yes? Should he remain a starter? Meh.

76Texan
02-26-2013, 03:27 PM
The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/BradyContract_zpsa44efe2c.jpg

http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Tom%20Brady&Position=QB&Team=Patriots

His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.
Jus want to add that the $30M bonus is recorded in the book as spreading out over 5 years for cap designation purpose only.

By looking at Dutch's numbers above and the numbers at spotrac, the $27M (the value of the 3 year extension is to paid out at 1, 2, 7, 8, and 9 in the form of base salary for each of the 5 years from 2013-15.

Brady pockets $30M sometimes shortly after he signs this extension.
Basically, he's receiving his pay for 2013-14 "right now" before OTA even starts.
He can put this money in the bank to draw interest or invest it in a mutual fund however he pleases.

Double Barrel
02-26-2013, 03:32 PM
I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.

You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.

infantrycak
02-26-2013, 03:48 PM
perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.

Perhaps we need to reexamine our definition of pedestrian. Schaub and Peyton are 2.2 yards apart on yards per game. Manning throws more TD's (% of throws). Schaub throws less INT's (% of throws) and for a higher average yards per attempt (yeah that one kind of surprised me too).

I AM NOT SAYING SCHAUB IS PEYTON SO NOBODY BRING THAT TIRED SCHTICK.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2013, 03:54 PM
I'm pretty sure they saved all of 2 million dollars of cap space in 2013/14 combined from this extension. If someone has something that says otherwise, let me know. An extension like that for 2 million in cap space is pretty dumb if you ask me.

Peter King had a number much larger than that the other day but I believe he was wrong. This is what I read recently

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/reissmailbagweek0226/how-pats-spend-all-cash

Q. There has been talk that this year, because the cap is not expected to rise, that several teams will have to cut some good players. Is this, at least in part, the reason for the Brady deal? That is, the Pats can now be major players, not only in keeping some of their own players, but also in the free agent market at large? -- Tman (Belmont)

A. Tman, yes, there is an element of that in play with the Brady extension. I still thought the Patriots were in solid position with $18 million in cap space, but this gives the team even more flexibility this year (about $26 million in cap space by my estimate) and next year as well (when the cap isn't expected to rise again). It's all part of an overall strategy that was hatched after the 2011 lockout to prepare for the "flat-cap" era of football -- three straight years in which the salary cap did not increase much at all. I specifically remember owner Robert Kraft talking about the future and the salary cap not rising, and some contesting that viewpoint. The teams that didn't prepare accordingly are going to be hurt this year.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8988720/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-agree-3-year-27-million-extension

Brady's relatively modest deal frees up $15 million worth of salary-cap space for the Patriots in the 2013 and 2014 seasons, a league source told ESPN.

Double Barrel
02-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Perhaps we need to reexamine our definition of pedestrian. Schaub and Peyton are 2.2 yards apart on yards per game. Manning throws more TD's (% of throws). Schaub throws less INT's (% of throws) and for a higher average yards per attempt (yeah that one kind of surprised me too).

I use it as a descriptive term for lackluster and average.

pedestrian (http://www.google.com/search?q=pedestrian+definition&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1) - Lacking inspiration or excitement; dull

I know you were not trying to compare QBs. However, just for fun of explaining the pedestrian tag as defined above:

Peyton Manning (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=MannPe00) = 38 fourth quarter comebacks, 49 game-winning drives (in 244 RS starts)

Matt Schaub (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SchaMa00) = 9 fourth quarter comebacks, 12 game-winning drives (in 82 RS starts)

And, for fun...

TJ Yates (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=YateT.00) = 1 fourth quarter comeback, 2 game-winning drives (in 5 RS starts)

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 06:21 PM
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.


Good points. However, I think you'd have to have a pretty desperate team, or an arrogant HC, or a moron, or a mixture of the three to trade two seconds for Yates & signing him to a starting QBs contract sight unseen.

Tj is right where he needs to be. Backing up Matt Schaub. If he gets another opportunity to play in the regular season, it's up to Tj to win the job.


I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady.

All I want is the second coming of Romo. & I'm serious as a heart attack.

handswarmer
02-27-2013, 09:28 AM
Good points. However, I think you'd have to have a pretty desperate team, or an arrogant HC, or a moron, or a mixture of the three to trade two seconds for Yates & signing him to a starting QBs contract sight unseen.

Tj is right where he needs to be. Backing up Matt Schaub. If he gets another opportunity to play in the regular season, it's up to Tj to win the job.



All I want is the second coming of Romo. & I'm serious as a heart attack.

Seriously? TJ has just as many playoff wins as Romo.

Dutchrudder
02-27-2013, 09:30 AM
Peter King had a number much larger than that the other day but I believe he was wrong. This is what I read recently

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/reissmailbagweek0226/how-pats-spend-all-cash


http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8988720/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-agree-3-year-27-million-extension

From what I read, Brady was scheduled to make 30 million over the next two years on his old deal. I haven't seen anything that says he was supposed to make ~43 million in those two years, which is how you would get the huge savings. Unfortunately, all of my go to sites for contract info have already updated his contract, so I'm not sure what he was supposed to make. That's really the issue here, was he really scheduled to make 22 million next year? Something isn't adding up.

thunderkyss
02-27-2013, 09:41 AM
Seriously? TJ has just as many playoff wins as Romo.

Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games. They either lead the team to be in a position to win or lose. Romo gives that Dallas team a chance every game, regardless who else is on that team.

handswarmer
02-27-2013, 09:41 AM
From what I read, Brady was scheduled to make 30 million over the next two years on his old deal. I haven't seen anything that says he was supposed to make ~43 million in those two years, which is how you would get the huge savings. Unfortunately, all of my go to sites for contract info have already updated his contract, so I'm not sure what he was supposed to make. That's really the issue here, was he really scheduled to make 22 million next year? Something isn't adding up.

Right- they added Three million in Salary (1 mill in 13 and 2 in 14) but converted hos 13 and 14 salaray to a $30 mill SB and then guaranteed the last 3 yrs at 9 mill each (27 mill)

Double Barrel
02-27-2013, 10:00 AM
Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games.

You obviously missed Joe Montana's career. :shades:

Dutchrudder
02-27-2013, 11:19 AM
Right- they added Three million in Salary (1 mill in 13 and 2 in 14) but converted hos 13 and 14 salaray to a $30 mill SB and then guaranteed the last 3 yrs at 9 mill each (27 mill)

Edit: I see it now.

Brady restructured his salary in 2012 to signing bonus and that added to the cap hit to 2013 and 2014. His original deal was going to be:
2013: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
2014: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus

Total of 43.6 million over two years.

Instead, they now have him as:
2013: 1 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 8 million)
2014: 2 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 7 million)

Total of 28.6 over two years. A savings of 15 million in cap space.

And after 2014 the only signing bonus is the 6m a year from the restructure.

Now it all makes sense!

Wolf
02-27-2013, 06:09 PM
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/02/brady_contract_schaub.php

Interesting about Bradys contract versus Schaubs

handswarmer
02-28-2013, 08:58 AM
Edit: I see it now.

Brady restructured his salary in 2012 to signing bonus and that added to the cap hit to 2013 and 2014. His original deal was going to be:
2013: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus
2014: 15 million salary + 6.8 million signing bonus

Total of 43.6 million over two years.

Instead, they now have him as:
2013: 1 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 8 million)
2014: 2 million salary, 12.8 million signing bonus (saves 7 million)

Total of 28.6 over two years. A savings of 15 million in cap space.

And after 2014 the only signing bonus is the 6m a year from the restructure.

Now it all makes sense!

Not to mention the fact that he has already made $70-80 million and is 37 yrs old

But Pats fans think Tom is a Saint....

badboy
02-28-2013, 09:42 AM
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ. If Yates excites a coach, he will be a starter...somewhere. I like Yates as a back up that hopefully can manage Texans if Schaub goes out.

Double Barrel
02-28-2013, 10:06 AM
Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ. If Yates excites a coach, he will be a starter...somewhere. I like Yates as a back up that hopefully can manage Texans if Schaub goes out.

TJ did show us something, helping the team to come from behind to win a game that won the division, and then winning a playoff game. Do you remember 3rd & 18 and TJ running for almost 19 yards for a first down? That kept the game winning drive alive, and then he nails Walter for the game winning TD. Dude is a gamer. Rough around the edges, but those can be polished. He's got smarts, he's a leader, and he doesn't crack under pressure.

This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.

I'm not going to hold Ed Reed in Baltimore during a playoff game against him like so many folks do.

2012Champs
02-28-2013, 02:01 PM
You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.



In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?

2012Champs
02-28-2013, 02:06 PM
TJ did show us something, helping the team to come from behind to win a game that won the division, and then winning a playoff game. Do you remember 3rd & 18 and TJ running for almost 19 yards for a first down? That kept the game winning drive alive, and then he nails Walter for the game winning TD. Dude is a gamer. Rough around the edges, but those can be polished. He's got smarts, he's a leader, and he doesn't crack under pressure.

This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.

I'm not going to hold Ed Reed in Baltimore during a playoff game against him like so many folks do.




Id also say too many folks hold JJ responsible for our loss last year when it was a clear combination of failures JJ, Yates and FG kicking. Well you should hold those 3 picks against him to some degree if you are also going to sing praises to his upside. Those 3 ints could have easily been 4-5 btw. What Yates did last season more often than not was just play well enough for us not to lose, it was our D that helped TJ to most of his wins not TJ. Check out the drop in ppg Schaub to Yates and dont mention Dre because Schaub didnt see a drop in ppg without Dre.

Dutchrudder
02-28-2013, 02:13 PM
In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?

Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.

2012Champs
02-28-2013, 02:18 PM
Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.



in such a short histroy of starts leaving those numbers out sure makes it seem better than it really was, lets not forget that as great a TJ was at moving around with better feet than Schaub his sack rate was worse

Double Barrel
02-28-2013, 03:00 PM
In your TJ stats are you leaving out his playoff games?

hmmmmm, what part of my post answers your question? :thinking:

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

Since Matt did not play in a playoff game until his 9th season, I did not see the point of post-season rookie play in my comparison.

Check out the drop in ppg Schaub to Yates and dont mention Dre because Schaub didnt see a drop in ppg without Dre.

yeah, nice, let's compare stats of a 5th round 3rd string rookie without an off-season to an 8-9 year veteran with years of experience with the same receivers. That's so academic and intellectually honest.

:rolleyes: [/sarcasm]

Yeah, he is, and leaving out 4 fumbles in the regular season. But he did say he's willing to overlook going against Ed Reed in the playoffs. TJ posted a 53.8 QB rating in the playoffs with 1 TD and 3 INTs.

Alright, throw those in there if it makes you feel better. Matt had 1 and TJ had 4. Not sure if those were lost or just fumbles, but makes no difference to me.

My point was not to advocate TJ Yates or act like he's something that he's not.

The point was that Schaub is not all that, and the fact that he can be compared to a backup QB is indicative of his not-even-close-to-elite status as an NFL QB.

I honestly do not understand what he has accomplished to warrant the homerish defense by so many Texans fans. Not a knock on you or anyone in particular, but I am not convinced in even the slightest way that he can or will do much more at 32 years old than play good enough regular season football to get us a post-season loss.

I wanted him to be great. But after January, I cannot wear blinders to Schaub's obvious handicaps as a QB. I'm a fan, just not that kind of fan.

BTW, Ed Reed has made lots of QBs look foolish. Perhaps that's why he's a first ballot HoFer?

in such a short histroy of starts leaving those numbers out sure makes it seem better than it really was, lets not forget that as great a TJ was at moving around with better feet than Schaub his sack rate was worse

Yates is what he is right now, and has a 1-1 post season record just like our much heralded pedestrian starting QB.

Y'all can rip on TJ Yates all you want (I'm not his defender), but all it does is make Schaub that much more average in the bigger picture.

Like I have said on multiple occasions:

This for a 5th round 3rd string QB without an off-season or any reps that was thrown into the fire.


I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.

BTW, I understand that Schaub has no competition for a couple of years and will be our starting QB for probably two more seasons at minimum. He's wonderful that way and Kubiak woud not want to put a dent in his mental state.

Just don't get your hopes up that he has it in him to carry this team in any sort of way. Winning it all with Schaub will require all aspects of this team to play beyond what we have seen so far. The Ravens won their first SB with Trent Dilfer, so we have that to hope for, I guess.

infantrycak
02-28-2013, 04:34 PM
Schaub did not show much as a rookie and that is why he was a back up like TJ.

This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.

badboy
02-28-2013, 04:59 PM
This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.As usual you miss the meat talking about dessert. If Schaub or Yates outplayed the starter, he would have been the starter.

Double Barrel
02-28-2013, 05:31 PM
Just to let y'all know, I'm in this conversation purely for the fun of it.

The fact of the matter is that none of the Texans QBs have impressed me, so I'm not at all dislodged in any sort of way with Schaub being a starter over Yates and Keenum.

Wow, what an exciting group of QBs, I tell ya'. :winky:

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

Dutchrudder
02-28-2013, 05:38 PM
Just to let y'all know, I'm in this conversation purely for the fun of it.

The fact of the matter is that none of the Texans QBs have impressed me, so I'm not at all dislodged in any sort of way with Schaub being a starter over Yates and Keenum.

Wow, what an exciting group of QBs, I tell ya'. :winky:

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/files/2012/11/schaub1.jpg

Double Barrel
02-28-2013, 06:11 PM
lol! It's all good, man. I sincerely hope y'all are making me eat some crow next January because Schaub proved me completely off-base with my perspectives.

Dutchrudder
02-28-2013, 06:15 PM
lol! It's all good, man. I sincerely hope y'all are making me eat some crow next January because Schaub proved me completely off-base with my perspectives.

Oh I don't think you're wrong about Schaub, I just think you are overvaluing Yates. I'm all for drafting a QB this year. I like Barkley and Wilson as potential picks in the 2nd.

infantrycak
02-28-2013, 06:29 PM
As usual you miss the meat talking about dessert. If Schaub or Yates outplayed the starter, he would have been the starter.

For anyone with any sense of NFL history to assert this is just ludicrous. Where in practice? It is a rare event to see a top tier, highly paid QB benched without injury for a backup based on practice (no Alex Smith does not count and even there injury was involved). Eventually aging QB's are let go and there are certainly some exceptions but they are rare. Brady - started because of injury. Rodgers - didn't start until Favre was dumped. Young - didn't start until an oft-injured (including the whole prior season) Montana was dumped. It took Bob Lilly at the request of the team going to Tom Landry to get Staubach to start. That is the meat.

thunderkyss
02-28-2013, 06:41 PM
This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.

And in 2007 we had people wanting Sage over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

And in 2012 we had people thinking Tj should start over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

But because Atlantans wanted to start Schaub over Vick, it meant something?

Yep... I'm missing something here.

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

By that thinking, our early exit from the play offs had nothing to do with our QB. I'm not a big Schaub fan either, but if The Patriots losing in the AFC Championship game does not mean they need another QB, I don't believe the Texans losing the week before means we need another QB, or that Schaub can't take us farther. Too many things went wrong to put it all on our QB.

If there's an Aaron Rogers or Ben Roethlisberger, or even a Jay Cutler in this draft I'm all about doing what it takes to get him. But I also understand there's a better than good chance he'll turn out to be J.P. Losman, or Tim Couch.

I'm not the kind of guy who will cry that my HC/GM won't take chances, but then cry when they do & it doesn't work out.

I'd rather be 12-4 with a win in a home play-off game with Matt Schaub & Gary Kubiak, than whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing, or the KC Chiefs, or the Detroit Lions, or the Buffalo Bills, or the Minnesota Vikings, or Oakland Raiders, or the St. Louis Rams. That's the youngest franchise in the league other than the Texans & 6 of the 10 teams that hired a new HC in 2006.

2012Champs
02-28-2013, 07:03 PM
hmmmmm, what part of my post answers your question? :thinking:



Since Matt did not play in a playoff game until his 9th season, I did not see the point of post-season rookie play in my comparison.



yeah, nice, let's compare stats of a 5th round 3rd string rookie without an off-season to an 8-9 year veteran with years of experience with the same receivers. That's so academic and intellectually honest.

:rolleyes: [/sarcasm]



Alright, throw those in there if it makes you feel better. Matt had 1 and TJ had 4. Not sure if those were lost or just fumbles, but makes no difference to me.

My point was not to advocate TJ Yates or act like he's something that he's not.

The point was that Schaub is not all that, and the fact that he can be compared to a backup QB is indicative of his not-even-close-to-elite status as an NFL QB.

I honestly do not understand what he has accomplished to warrant the homerish defense by so many Texans fans. Not a knock on you or anyone in particular, but I am not convinced in even the slightest way that he can or will do much more at 32 years old than play good enough regular season football to get us a post-season loss.

I wanted him to be great. But after January, I cannot wear blinders to Schaub's obvious handicaps as a QB. I'm a fan, just not that kind of fan.

BTW, Ed Reed has made lots of QBs look foolish. Perhaps that's why he's a first ballot HoFer?



Yates is what he is right now, and has a 1-1 post season record just like our much heralded pedestrian starting QB.

Y'all can rip on TJ Yates all you want (I'm not his defender), but all it does is make Schaub that much more average in the bigger picture.

Like I have said on multiple occasions:





BTW, I understand that Schaub has no competition for a couple of years and will be our starting QB for probably two more seasons at minimum. He's wonderful that way and Kubiak woud not want to put a dent in his mental state.

Just don't get your hopes up that he has it in him to carry this team in any sort of way. Winning it all with Schaub will require all aspects of this team to play beyond what we have seen so far. The Ravens won their first SB with Trent Dilfer, so we have that to hope for, I guess.



My question was rhetorical. You can keep playing up Yates' stats when hey are good and downplay the bad. Call it whatever you want but that's what you're doing. Schaub isn't elite or great but he is far and away better than Yates and a comparable playoff record is meaningless

infantrycak
02-28-2013, 07:42 PM
And in 2007 we had people wanting Sage over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

And in 2012 we had people thinking Tj should start over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

But because Atlantans wanted to start Schaub over Vick, it meant something?

Yep... I'm missing something here.

Yeah, you are as in the point. Schaub was on the bench behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one who was considered a superstar. Get it now? The idea he was going to outplay Vick in practice and replace him is a joke.

thunderkyss
02-28-2013, 07:58 PM
Yeah, you are as in the point. Schaub was on the bench behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one who was considered a superstar. Get it now? The idea he was going to outplay Vick in practice and replace him is a joke.

Almost as funny as starting Sage over a guy we just traded two 2nds & gave a starter's contract. Or starting Tj over that same guy who was considered a top 10 QB at that time (the beginning of the 2012 season).

It's all funny. Same joke, different punchline. It was goofy & unrealistic to think as much about Schaub replacing Vick. It was goofy & unrealistic to think Sage or Tj would replace Schaub.


badboy is right, if Schaub or Tj flashed like Russell Wilson did (in practice mind you) they would have been starting. Yes, Vick was a rockstar, & Schaub was a pro bowl MVP, but if they led their coach to believe they had a better chance of winning, they would have been starters.

infantrycak
02-28-2013, 08:37 PM
badboy is right, if Schaub or Tj flashed like Russell Wilson did (in practice mind you) they would have been starting. Yes, Vick was a rockstar, & Schaub was a pro bowl MVP, but if they led their coach to believe they had a better chance of winning, they would have been starters.

Do you realize what a joke that is? OK, name all the perfectly healthy rock star QB's who have been benched in their prime. It should be easy since it is as easy as outperforming them in practice. Must happen all the time. And no Wilson doesn't count since his competition was unproven.

The idea coaches don't have their thumb on the scale to tip it toward starters, high profile players and highly paid players is well laughable.

PS - Schaub wasn't a pro-bowl QB at the time.

thunderkyss
02-28-2013, 10:53 PM
Do you realize what a joke that is? OK, name all the perfectly healthy rock star QB's who have been benched in their prime. It should be easy since it is as easy as outperforming them in practice. Must happen all the time. And no Wilson doesn't count since his competition was unproven.

The idea coaches don't have their thumb on the scale to tip it toward starters, high profile players and highly paid players is well laughable.

PS - Schaub wasn't a pro-bowl QB at the time.

I think we're saying the same thing. Schaub wasn't going to beat out Vick. Tj was not going to beat out Schaub. Practically the same reason. The team just made a major investment in the incumbant, more or less hitching their wagons.

But not everyone thought Vick's performance warranted a $100M contract. I seriously doubt you thought Vick deserved a $100M contract. & just like people were saying we'll never win a championship with Schaub, people were saying the Falcons would never win a championship with Vick.

Matt today is a better QB than Vick was in 2005. But many will argue Vick was the better football player. Vick was criticized because he depended more on his athleticism and wasn't very productive from the pocket, where Schaub is criticized for his lack of athleticism and production outside the pocket.

Both QBs were extended even though many believed there were unanswered questions.

handswarmer
03-01-2013, 07:40 AM
Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games. They either lead the team to be in a position to win or lose. Romo gives that Dallas team a chance every game, regardless who else is on that team.

Romo "IS" that Qb that wins or loses a game for a team...even with all those playmakers on his team, he still finds ways to lose a game.