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Vinny
06-20-2005, 11:42 AM
Rex Ryan is installing his Father's D up with the Ratbirds. Fisher and the Meatballs are the only team that runs a version of the 46 defense up till now (as far as I can tell). This defense is boom or bust since it puts your db's on an island and there is no deep help, so it will be interesting to follow this year.
Ravens and 46 defense: A perfect match
By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst

(June 14, 2005) -- There are substantial stories coming out of the Baltimore Ravens practices that defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, son of famed "46 zone defense" guru Buddy Ryan, is installing the 46 for the Ravens. Simply stated, if the Ravens blend the 4-3, 3-4 and the 46, offenses will have to build a "check with me" philosophy.

As one offensive coach said to me, "Any team that calls a running play in the huddle and comes out and sees the Ravens in the 46 defense better get out of the play." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8564100

Big B Texan Fan
06-20-2005, 11:55 AM
Rex Ryan is installing his Father's D up with the Ratbirds. Fisher and the Meatballs are the only team that runs a version of the 46 defense up till now (as far as I can tell). This defense is boom or bust since it puts your db's on an island and there is no deep help, so it will be interesting to follow this year.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8564100
We play them this year. When I heard that they were insatlling a new D I was happy. It's gonna take them @ least a year to get it down. Hopefully they make all kinds of mistakes when we play them.

Big B Texan Fan
06-20-2005, 12:05 PM
If they are smart, they will shift into a cover-2 when they play us. So far Carr & Co. has yet to figure that defense out.
LOL :woot2

royce1054
06-20-2005, 03:45 PM
the 46 D is the best D ever invented but you have to have the right personnel to make it work. I do think Baltimore can pull it off. I am glad to see my favorite D-Coordinators legacy lives on.

Lucky
06-20-2005, 04:16 PM
...This defense is boom or bust since it puts your db's on an island and there is no deep help, so it will be interesting to follow this year.
True. But has a 46 defense ever had 2 quality CBs like Chris McAlister & Samari Rolle? And Ed Reed seems born to play the 46 SS, in that he can play the run, blitz, and cover. If I were a Raven fan, I'd be pumped about this move.

TexanFan881
06-20-2005, 04:25 PM
The Ravens have the best defense in the league by far so I don't think they will have a problem pulling off the 46 Defense.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-20-2005, 04:42 PM
The Ravens defense is going to be sick this season.

jgl35
06-20-2005, 04:54 PM
True. But has a 46 defense ever had 2 quality CBs like Chris McAlister & Samari Rolle? And Ed Reed seems born to play the 46 SS, in that he can play the run, blitz, and cover. If I were a Raven fan, I'd be pumped about this move.
In Philly, Buddy had Eric Allen and Otis Smith at CB ., with Ben Smith , a number one pick in the mix with them. Think the year was 91, but not sure. Allen was a pro bowl CB and Otis played for years with the Jets and NE.

Lucky
06-20-2005, 05:05 PM
Well in Tennessee, Fisher had Samari Rolle and either Denard Walker or Andre Dyson. In Houston, Buddy Ryan had Cris Dishman, Darryl Lewis, & Steve Jackson. Those weren't shabby, either.

But McAlister & Rolle are both Pro Bowl caliber corners. If they're both healthy, that's more than a notch above any other CB combo the 46 defense has seen.

jgl35
06-20-2005, 05:33 PM
Your right, Lucky. The Balt. guys are probably better on both sides than any I can remember. I forgot about Dishman/Lewis. A really good pair.

royce1054
06-21-2005, 10:02 AM
Personally i liked it when the Oilers used the 46. I just dont think our personnel is good enough to run that D. The 34 is my number 2 D. I think sharper would of loved it. I am not sure how payne, smith, johnson, and walker would do with Babin or Peek as the other end. Its nice to dream huh. then have greenwood and Wong as the lB's and put Earl on the line as the SS. Coleman, Robinson and Buchannon should be able to hold down the secondary.

Fiddy
06-21-2005, 10:11 AM
Like Lucky said, Ed Reed was born for this defense. He is going to have a ball.

cdastros
06-21-2005, 11:31 AM
I like the 3-4 defense the best. It just seems easier to draft and find players that fit into that system. When the Oilers ran the 46 under buddy Ryan it only took that team 4 games to figure it out. With the extended offseason work that the players put in, it should not take them that long to figure out the defense.

Does anybody know another team besides the bears to win a super bowl running the 46 defense?

F-minus67
06-21-2005, 02:53 PM
Didn't the eagles play it when they set all those defensive records, like 55 sacks in a year and getting 11 sacks in a game?

royce1054
06-21-2005, 10:18 PM
it was the bears who set the record

F-minus67
06-21-2005, 10:44 PM
I swear the eagles got the 11 in a game against the cowboys, sacking Aikman.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-21-2005, 11:44 PM
I expect Terrell Suggs to have a huge season playing DE. Dan Cody will have his fair share of sacks as well.

awtysst
06-22-2005, 08:30 PM
Rex Ryan is installing his Father's D up with the Ratbirds. Fisher and the Meatballs are the only team that runs a version of the 46 defense up till now (as far as I can tell). This defense is boom or bust since it puts your db's on an island and there is no deep help, so it will be interesting to follow this year.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8564100

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 4-6 defense? 4 ends, 6 linebackers, and one DB?

texasguy346
06-22-2005, 08:52 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 4-6 defense? 4 ends, 6 linebackers, and one DB?

The 46 is basically the same personnel you see in a basic 4-3 scheme, but they're positioned differently with different responsibilities. Its a much more agressive scheme. There are still 4 Linemen (DE, DT, DT, DE), 3 LBs (MLB, OLB, and a "rush" backer), 2 CBs, and 2 Safeties. Generally there are 8 guys around the line of scrimmage at all times, and 6 guys attack the LOS on a regular basis. That's one reason why the CBs have to be able to do well on an island since there isn't much help deep. The MLB and one of the Safeties is the last line of defense. The other safety acts like another LB, and the "rush" backer is just a linebacker who's primary objective is to find a way to get to the QB (I think Suggs will fill this role). I think that explains it, but I'm sure I left a thing or two out.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-22-2005, 09:04 PM
46, not 4-6. The defense was named after Doug Plank, former Bears strong safety.


Edit: Vinny beat me to it.

texasguy346
06-22-2005, 09:05 PM
The defense was named after Bears safety Doug Plank who was number 46. Plank was good enough to play as a linebacker as well as a safety so Ryan named the defense after him.

http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos8/Plank,Doug3.jpg


Didn't know where they came up with the name. Nice to learn something new.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-22-2005, 09:10 PM
http://www.detroitlions.com/photos/Bear_Defense.JPG

awtysst
06-22-2005, 10:03 PM
The 46 is basically the same personnel you see in a basic 4-3 scheme, but they're positioned differently with different responsibilities. Its a much more agressive scheme. There are still 4 Linemen (DE, DT, DT, DE), 3 LBs (MLB, OLB, and a "rush" backer), 2 CBs, and 2 Safeties. Generally there are 8 guys around the line of scrimmage at all times, and 6 guys attack the LOS on a regular basis. That's one reason why the CBs have to be able to do well on an island since there isn't much help deep. The MLB and one of the Safeties is the last line of defense. The other safety acts like another LB, and the "rush" backer is just a linebacker who's primary objective is to find a way to get to the QB (I think Suggs will fill this role). I think that explains it, but I'm sure I left a thing or two out.


Wow. That is a very aggressive Defensive set. You would have to have world class Cbs to even consider it. I can see why Baltimore is doing it though. Would this be more of a third down kind of Defense or something you could run on first down?

Carr Bombed
06-22-2005, 10:23 PM
Some people are really skeptical if they are going to be able to pull it off, because today's game is totally different. Back in the 46's hayday the TE was a totally different position and wasn't utilized like it is today.

Big B Texan Fan
06-22-2005, 11:23 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 4-6 defense? 4 ends, 6 linebackers, and one DB?
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/13/AR2005061301547.html
And then check out.
http://sportscombine.com/thezone/Defense/46_Defense/46_Defense.htm

Hope this helps.

D-ReK
06-22-2005, 11:32 PM
http://69.137.37.244/ravens46.jpg

I found this a little while back when I first heard about them making the switch...This is of course subject to change between now and the season opener, but this shows the gist of what they're doing...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-22-2005, 11:59 PM
Flip Suggs and Weaver then replace Edwards with Kemoeatu and that is how the Ravens defense should look.

Big B Texan Fan
06-23-2005, 12:49 AM
Flip Suggs and Weaver then replace Edwards with Kemoeatu and that is how the Ravens defense should look.
Do you think Reed will play up close or Demps

texasguy346
06-23-2005, 03:02 PM
Wow. That is a very aggressive Defensive set. You would have to have world class Cbs to even consider it. I can see why Baltimore is doing it though. Would this be more of a third down kind of Defense or something you could run on first down?

They'll likely use this more as a base defense. It all depends on the particular situation, but if the opposing offense comes out in a 5 WR set then the Ravens will counter with the appropriate defense more than likely. You'll probably see them use the 46 in 3rd and short type scenarios as well as on 1st or 2nd down. In clear passing situations they'll probably have more help deep. This is all speculation until we actually see how they implement it on the field this fall.

texasguy346
06-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Do you think Reed will play up close or Demps

I know this isn't addressed to me, but IMO I think they'll have Demps matched up in man-coverage with the opposing teams TE. That would leave Reed playing back where he can do what he does best which is to make big plays.

royce1054
06-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 4-6 defense? 4 ends, 6 linebackers, and one DB?

Invented by Buddy Ryan

3 DT 1 NT head up on the center 2 Tackles over the gaurds.
2 Ends strong side plays outside the end weak side has outside contain
2 LB 1 is in the strong side C gap and the other weak side B
1 SS plays head up on the TE

cover 3 is coverage that is used
2 CB 7-10 yards off the ball
1 FS 10-12 yards off the ball

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-23-2005, 05:18 PM
Will Demps will play the role of Doug Plank.

The Ravens are not using the 46 defense as their primary base defense but instead employing it into their defensive scheme. They use a mix of 4-3, 3-4, and now the 46.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
06-23-2005, 05:26 PM
The sole responsibilty of the 2 defensive tackles is to take out the 2 guards and the center. This allows Ray Lewis to roam free. The 2 defensive ends responsibility is to get after the quarterback. It will be hard for defenses to run to the outside because the Ravens have tremendous speed on the outside with Adalius Thomas, Tommy Polley, and Terrell Suggs.

If anyone saw the Ravens vs Colts game last season, they kind of experimented with it and were very successful the first half. They would disguise the 46 pre-snap then bounce back into a 4-3 with cover 2.