PDA

View Full Version : Texans #2 WR position


Texans_Chick
02-12-2013, 01:48 PM
Everybody knows this is an issue, but finding solutions are harder.

I frame the issue here:

Options, pessimism about 2013 Texans #2 wide receiver position (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2013/02/texans-wide-receiver-number-2/)

Framing the issue doesn't mean solving it, but it is hard to discuss things without a framework of what is possible/feasible.

Maybe I'm just grumpy at the beginning of February on this subject, but this topic puts me in a grim mood. Are there reasons to be less grumpy about this? Your ideas welcome.

CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2013, 02:43 PM
Everybody knows this is an issue, but finding solutions are harder.

I frame the issue here:

Options, pessimism about 2013 Texans #2 wide receiver position (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2013/02/texans-wide-receiver-number-2/)

Framing the issue doesn't mean solving it, but it is hard to discuss things without a framework of what is possible/feasible.

Maybe I'm just grumpy at the beginning of February on this subject, but this topic puts me in a grim mood. Are there reasons to be less grumpy about this? Your ideas welcome.

Nice write up as usual, Steph.

Grumpy/grim probably is not an unreasonable mood to be in at this point. Our bargain hunting pattern for WRs over the years are no more likely to produce results this year. On top of that, it is hard to feel comfortable that even with the addition of that "it" WR, we can't be guaranteed that the ball will ever be "delivered" effectively to make such a move significantly productive this upcoming season. As McNair has made a public statement that he essentially feels the WR position needs to be given attention, while looking at our Cap situation this year and next, and our diffuse needs, I more expect to see a window dressing WR appear on the 2013 Texans..... I hope that I am wrong. But, meanwhile, along with you, Steph, I can't help but remain somewhat cynical, grim and grumpy.:texflag:

CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2013, 02:55 PM
BTW, how did "Matt Schaub" make it onto the linked 2013 FA list???:kubepalm:

Stemp
02-12-2013, 03:00 PM
I've had my eye on Quinton Patton since the game against A&M. I think this guy is going to be a stud and I'm hoping he falls into the Texans' lap at the draft and they pull the trigger.

Wolf6151
02-12-2013, 03:05 PM
The Texans have alot of holes right now and with our salary cap situation I don't think there's any way we fill them all with good or even decent players. We're going into next season with a few team weaknesses plain and simple. We don't have the money to properly address WR in FA unless we make some painful cuts elsewhere on the team. I honestly think that this offseason could be even bloodier than last with all the cuts that may get made. Also the fact that McNair is making his opinion known publicly regarding WR, tells me that he's not real happy with Smithiak right now and the fact that the WR position hasn't been fixed when it's been an obvious issue to everyone in the NFL. Using the "bargain hunting pattern" that Kubiak has used the last few year to fix the problem hasn't worked, and I'm thinking it's really irritating McNair. Last years draft was a perfect example, it was really deep at WR yet we traded out of the 2nd round when there were good WR's available to us and then took a guy who should have been a 6th round pick at best in the 3rd. That move will come back to haunt us and it looks like it's already starting to.

I think we address the issue in the draft, we've got no other choice.

CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2013, 03:08 PM
I've had my eye on Quinton Patton since the game against A&M. I think this guy is going to be a stud and I'm hoping he falls into the Texans' lap at the draft and they pull the trigger.

My favorite.

deucetx
02-12-2013, 03:35 PM
Last years draft was a perfect example, it was really deep at WR yet we traded out of the 2nd round when there were good WR's available to us and then took a guy who should have been a 6th round pick at best in the 3rd. That move will come back to haunt us and it looks like it's already starting to.

I think we address the issue in the draft, we've got no other choice.

I wouldn't hold trading back against them. Even after that only one receiver was chosen before their next pick (Rueben Randle) and he had an unsubstantial year. But yeah, the way they address it leaves something to be desired. Seems like we go for projects even in draft. Jones out of Lane college and Posey who missed an entire season were at the top of our receiver picks. Come on...

Two that did well that we missed on were T.Y. Hilton which of course come back to bite us in the backside and Chris Givens. But it's hindsight at this point though I originally liked Givens so was a bit peeved when we didn't pick him. Heh, I would have been surprised if this team rolled the dice and went for Josh Gordon in the supplemental draft but of course not bias on that one since he's a friend of the family.

Definitely looks like draft is the way we have to go again though I would really rather a free agent WR since rookies usually take time to develop at this position.

badboy
02-12-2013, 05:12 PM
I think there are moves that canbe made to bring on top notch WR, whether we go that direction is the question. As McNair has spoken on this it might happen. I could see a high motor guy like Kawaan Short being selected to replace A. Smith and use that cap savings towards FA #2 WR. Reworking Walter saves a small amount. I like Stedman Bailey in draft who should be available in third.

CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2013, 07:36 PM
Walter already restructured his 2012 income. Wonder, if asked, how likely he would be to even agree to another one of any significance this year


Houston Texans wide receiver Kevin Walter took a pay cut earlier this month. Walter, 31, was scheduled to earn $3.5 million in base salary with a $4.5 million salary cap number in each of the three remaining seasons on his current contract. On March 16, Walter agreed to reduce his salary to $2 million, lowering his cap number for this season to $3 million. The final two years on Walter's contract (2013-14) were unchanged.link (http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/texans_wr_kevin_walter_restructures_his_contract/10438903)

ATXtexanfan
02-12-2013, 08:18 PM
When pay a #1 like a #1 then you can't afford a #2. Gotta hit in the draft.

Texn4life
02-12-2013, 08:43 PM
I like Patton where we're drafting as well. Reading some things on him recently it seems like he has a nice edge to him. I like guys that play with a chip on their shoulder and it seems like he plays with that mentality. He'd be a nice change of pace attitude wise to what we currently have. Good guy, but full of self confidence.

I'd bring in another 2nd tier vet at receiver and let he, Walter, and Jean battle it out. Martin and Posey aren't going anywhere so you can figure them into the equation. A group of AJ, Patton, Martin, Jean/Walter/FA (Posey when he's healthy) looks better than what we threw out at the end of the year. Martin should be better with a full year under his belt, and I believe Patton is polished enough as a route runner to contribute right away. The key would be getting him acclimated to the offense and the staff will make that judgment during the process.

Texan_Bill
02-12-2013, 08:56 PM
When pay a #1 like a #1 then you can't afford a #2. Gotta hit in the draft.

Just throwing this out there but how do we know, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean and the like, aren't that guy yet?

I'm not saying, by any stretch that those guys are the answer but I would rather focus the draft in other areas. Primarily the Texans defensive interior.

ArlingtonTexan
02-12-2013, 09:21 PM
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

CretorFrigg
02-12-2013, 09:33 PM
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

I just can't see how that will help the Texans' WR situation. I've never even heard of Ramses Barden or Brandon Gibson. As you said, these guys are mid to lower level WRs. We know what we're going to get from them. They're probably not going to be able to step in as the #2 WR.

And relying on another WR rookie? That's just a gamble. We need a proven, solid #2 WR who can step in immediately and contribute to the team.

Texn4life
02-12-2013, 09:40 PM
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

I really like the Barden option. The kid for some reason just hasn't been given much of a chance in New York, but his size is something that can't can't be coached or taught and whenever I see him out on the field it seems like he produces. Had a very nice game against Carolina this year.

EDIT: probably shouldn't say he has produced especially in the regular season, but he has looked good in preseason and in his limited play in the regular season. I believe he's been nicked up some but he has a lot of upside.

CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2013, 10:19 PM
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

dream_team
02-13-2013, 12:29 AM
Until we get a legitimate QB the WR position doesn't matter and threads like this are useless ...

Until we get logical fans, message boards like this are useless ...

leebigeztx
02-13-2013, 03:31 AM
Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.

Norg
02-13-2013, 04:45 AM
i dont feel like WR is not the issuse here we got young WR CORE

Martin Posey and Jean maybe these guys get better year 2 maybe they dont

i dont see how bringing in a New rookie WR from the draft is going to help

IF u want to make a huge impact we are going to need a F/a WR superstar

I say we go Tight End instead thats more our system Tight ends

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2013, 09:08 AM
I just can't see how that will help the Texans' WR situation. I've never even heard of Ramses Barden or Brandon Gibson. As you said, these guys are mid to lower level WRs. We know what we're going to get from them. They're probably not going to be able to step in as the #2 WR.

And relying on another WR rookie? That's just a gamble. We need a proven, solid #2 WR who can step in immediately and contribute to the team.

Just for reference Barden is a Huge WR who has been stuck behind guys in New york. Not much overall production, but has had moments.

Gibson- caught 53 balls last year with Rams.

Both around 26, but i don't want get bogged down in names just expect to be "disappointed" with the veteran WR brought in this off-season.

--------

My post was not what I thought was optimal, but what i am expecting to happen.

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2013, 09:14 AM
It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

Honestly, the Texans have not thrown enough bodies at the posistion. Wrs can be found throughout the draft, but you probably should be drafting one every year at some point. We have overdrafted CBs during smith's time here and really only have Brice McCain and Kareeen jackson to really show for it.

BullBlitz
02-13-2013, 09:20 AM
Honestly, the Texans have not thrown enough bodies at the posistion. Wrs can be found throughout the draft, but you probably should be drafting one every year at some point. We have overdrafted CBs during smith's time here and really only have Brice McCain and Kareeen jackson to really show for it.

Don't we have to give him credit for stumbling into Glover Quinn?

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2013, 09:28 AM
Don't we have to give him credit for stumbling into Glover Quinn?

yes we do and I just forgot about him since he is no longer a CB. Also, i think Rick smith has done a good, not great job overall simply because we have managed to go from awful to a legitimate playoff team. Probably happened too slow and he has plenty of ways to improve though.

tru80texan
02-13-2013, 11:34 AM
I really like the Barden option. The kid for some reason just hasn't been given much of a chance in New York, but his size is something that can't can't be coached or taught and whenever I see him out on the field it seems like he produces. Had a very nice game against Carolina this year.

EDIT: probably shouldn't say he has produced especially in the regular season, but he has looked good in preseason and in his limited play in the regular season. I believe he's been nicked up some but he has a lot of upside.

I like Barden as well. The kid is big & fast & has shown some flashes in very limited action. He shouldn't be expensive & could be a high reward investment IMO. Outside of him the others that possibly fall into the same area as him are Gibson, Jerome Simpson, Devery Henderson, Cribbs,& Danario Alexander. The latter I believe is a restricted FA. Barden seems to have the most potential of that group IMO.

The draft has some potential, but I believe last years yielded more. I think the boat was missed on that one & once again Kubiak & the FO are a day late & a dollar short on properly addressing a need. Hopefully some wr's separate themselves from the pack at the combine, but then we have to hope of those that do that one of them will actually fall to the Texans in the draft. Wishful thinking to obtain someone who can step in on day 1 & produce, but we can hope.

The WR position is in need of an upgrade & I believe that only truly happens if Walter is completely out of the way. Kubiak refuses to give others a true opportunity w/ Walter being around as his security blanket. The WR group would be thin if Walter is let go, but I think it was worse off last season & they not only chose to release Jacoby, but cut Walter's pay as well. That says a lot & I expect the same to happen this offseason as Walter simply is not a #2 wr worth the money he is projected to make. It's time to cut ties w/ him.

Sign a FA w/ potential, such as Barden, that won't break the bank & draft a wr that has actually produced something worth noting in Division 1, not Lane College, as well as has played during his whole career at college as opposed to the players who have missed whole seasons for 1 reason or another. All the above would be a great start that actually might prove to some that kubiak & his FO are finally serious about addressing the wr appropriately. Which is not something that has been done in the past despite their multiple failed attempts IMO.

thunderkyss
02-14-2013, 01:11 AM
It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

If you look at those facts in a vacuum, yeah, it's pretty sad.

However, when you factor in the dismal state our defense was in compared to the offensive production we were getting during that time, then it's understandable.

We haven't been looking as hard for a WR as we've been looking for a pass rusher, a cover corner, or competent inside pressure.

It's still sad, but understandable.

Corrosion
02-14-2013, 01:19 AM
My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ??

thunderkyss
02-14-2013, 01:22 AM
Also, i think Rick smith has done a good, not great job overall simply because we have managed to go from awful to a legitimate playoff team. Probably happened too slow and he has plenty of ways to improve though.

It took a great coach like Bill Parcels 4 years to turn a lost cause around. We've got the blind leading the blind in Smith & Kubiak & they did it in 6.

That's about right for the talent we've got. Talent in the F.O. that is.

Corrosion
02-14-2013, 01:34 AM
It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

To be fair Jacoby Jones looked pretty darn good for the Ravens .... but two things were different , he wasnt asked to understand a complex route tree there , just run fast and try to catch the ball ..... and he had a big armed QB who could throw him open allowing him to use his speed.


Posey improved all season and was pushing Walter down the depth chart ... that injury really sucks because I was expecting him to contribute significantly next season. This sets the team back and they have to address the position either in FA or a premium draft pick.

dream_team
02-14-2013, 03:58 AM
Logic dictates that since Matt cant get the ball to the players we have, having better players would not improve the team. Matt's issue isn't dropped balls, it's his inaccuracy, weak arm, and bad decisions.

Schaub ranked 8th in completions, 6th in completion percentage, 10th in yards per attempt. AJ ranked 4th in receptions. Logic says our QB gets the ball to the receivers just fine.

Malloy
02-14-2013, 06:39 AM
How, stat-wise is schaub looking when it comes to spreading the ball around? I have a feeling that despite the respectable general qb-stats, the possible one-dimentioness is more the issue than arm strength or reciever quality. Ofcourse i could be all wrong :)

deucetx
02-14-2013, 09:40 AM
Schaub ranked 8th in completions, 6th in completion percentage, 10th in yards per attempt. AJ ranked 4th in receptions. Logic says our QB gets the ball to the receivers just fine.

Pretty sure they mean down the field. Schaub threw it only 55 times 20+ times. For comparison sake that is lower than all the playoff quarterbacks except for Ponder, RG3 and Kaeperncik (though Kap threw it 49 times in a heck of a lot less starts so easily would have been more)

How, stat-wise is schaub looking when it comes to spreading the ball around? I have a feeling that despite the respectable general qb-stats, the possible one-dimentioness is more the issue than arm strength or reciever quality. Ofcourse i could be all wrong :)

Regular Season target%

Andre Johnson: 29.6%
Owen Daniels: 18.6
Kevin Walter: 12.6
Arian Foster: 10.5
James Casey: 8.1
Garrett Graham: 6.9
Keshawn Martin: 4.9
Devier Posey: 2.5
Lestar Jean: 2.2

ArlingtonTexan
02-14-2013, 09:54 AM
I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ??

Click on the any free agent WR list. Pretty much any WR in league can catch 40 balls for 500 yards if the majority of snap at WR2

badboy
02-14-2013, 10:04 AM
Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.My thoughts are it is a hard position to learn especially ours. Count how many rookies receivers are selected in say top three rounds. How many actually have Torrey SMith stats? It is risky.

HOU-TEX
02-14-2013, 10:10 AM
Just throwing this out there but how do we know, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean and the like, aren't that guy yet?

I'm not saying, by any stretch that those guys are the answer but I would rather focus the draft in other areas. Primarily the Texans defensive interior.

Agreed! Of course, I'll always lean towards defense

A lot depends on our UFAs. OLB if Barwin leaves? DB if Quin and/or McCain leave? NT if Cody leaves? ILB for sure

What else do we need on offense other than WR and an olineman or two? So yeah, my draft would be defense heavy....again

badboy
02-14-2013, 11:17 AM
I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ?? I don't think he got a signing (upfront) bonus that was prorated. He gets an annual $1m but seems either roster or performance based. IMO based on known info there is no bonus to move up if cut. There should be a true $4.5m cap savings. Also, that amount can be added to other sums to go get a very good WR. Eliminate A Smith $6m & Walter's $4.5m = FA starter money. Does not include the $2.4m that we found out will be brought forward or any other contract re-works. If McNair wants to spend we should be able to greatly improve this roster.

b0ng
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
I believe there are a lot of quality WR's that will be available at the bottom of round 1 and round 2. I do hope the Texans take one very high as this appears to be a very WR heavy draft. I don't really see an AJ Green or Julio Jones type (a player who could become the best in the league) but there is a lot of good talent.

This is, of course, just one man's humble opinion.

TexanSam
02-14-2013, 11:45 AM
Are there any tight ends in this draft who have amazing potential? I don't think our 2nd best receiving option necessarily has to be a wide receiver. We definitely need one since AJ only has a few years left in his prime, but in the short term if a TE is a better option in the draft than a WR then maybe the Texans would go that route? OD, Casey, and Graham are all okay but all are replaceable if someone better is available I think.

sandman
02-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Doesn't pass the eye test.

Anyone who watches the games cant say that with a straight face.

I will let others have their stats ... I prefer to watch the games.

The only game that matters is the game that ends the season. I would say a defense that gave up 41 points is more indicative of the Texans not moving on than Schaub's performance.

That's like saying the Texans lost because Casey dropped a TD in the first 30 seconds of the game. Oh wait...

steelbtexan
02-14-2013, 11:54 AM
[QUOTE=badboy;2125658]I don't think he got a signing (upfront) bonus that was prorated. He gets an annual $1m but seems either roster or performance based. IMO based on known info there is no bonus to move up if cut. There should be a true $4.5m cap savings. Also, that amount can be added to other sums to go get a very good WR. Eliminate A Smith $6m & Walter's $4.5m = FA starter money. Does not include the $2.4m that we found out will be brought forward or any other contract re-works. If McNair wants to spend we should be able to greatly improve this roster.[/QUOTE

Yep

I would cut Walter and A.Smith, Draft Datone Jones and sign an up and coming WR like Rames-Barden. Then draft the best WR available in the 2nd rd. This would give the Texans a chance to have their best WR corps ever and possibly turn a weakness into a strength.

I would use the rest of the $$$$ saved on cutting A.Smith to bring in a vet NT like Casey Hampton. I know he's 35 but he was a very productive 2 down run stopper.

BoB probably wont be willing to do this.

dream_team
02-14-2013, 12:50 PM
Doesn't pass the eye test.

Anyone who watches the games cant say that with a straight face.

I will let others have their stats ... I prefer to watch the games.

I have watched every second, of every game, Schaub has played with the Texans. He gets the ball to the receivers just fine. Yes, I can say that with a straight face.

Does his performance degrade when he doesn't have good protection and has to make a play with his feet? No doubt... but doesn't change the fact he gets the ball to his receivers just fine.

I don't want to turn this into another Schaub thread... so all I'll say is I hope we get another playmaker at receiver (whether he's a WR or TE). Out of all the young guys we have, I thought Posey had the most potential to be that guy, but looks like we can't depend on him anymore. The more weapons we can give Schaub, the less his deficiencies become a problem.

b0ng
02-14-2013, 01:16 PM
Doesn't pass the eye test.

Anyone who watches the games cant say that with a straight face.

I will let others have their stats ... I prefer to watch the games.

"I will never change my mind about this no matter how many facts or stats are presented to me because changing my mind is hard."

steelbtexan
02-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Are there any tight ends in this draft who have amazing potential? I don't think our 2nd best receiving option necessarily has to be a wide receiver. We definitely need one since AJ only has a few years left in his prime, but in the short term if a TE is a better option in the draft than a WR then maybe the Texans would go that route? OD, Casey, and Graham are all okay but all are replaceable if someone better is available I think.

Gavin Escobar is a name to keep in mind. 6'5 really good speed/hands, good route runner, not a good run blocker.

sandman
02-14-2013, 03:56 PM
The game that probably ended our season was the Viking game at home which we lost that could have given us home field throughout. If we would have been here playing the Patriots it could have been a different outcome.

The Green Bay game probably ended our season because we could have gone into the New England game undefeated and walked away with a bigger cushion even if we lost.

The New England game probably ended our season because it gave us only a one game lead in the conference with New England holding the tie breaker against us.

The Indianapolis game probably ended our season because we owned the tie breaker against the Broncos and could have had a first round bye.

So basically, every loss we had in the regular season probably ended our season...

Brisco_County
02-15-2013, 12:33 AM
One thing is certain, the prospective WR#2 won't ever be Posey. I love his upside and work ethic, but the fact that he wore patella braces throughout college was a sign that his Achilles injury was probably destined.

So where do we draft a receiver? Well, we also need a nose tackle, since Cody will either be cut or won't be in shape by preseason. Since the loss of Posey has only been an opportunity cost, the receiving talent has not regressed. But losing Cody will pose regression, so I think NT will be #1, and WR #2.

Wolf6151
02-15-2013, 01:55 AM
One thing is certain, the prospective WR#2 won't ever be Posey. I love his upside and work ethic, but the fact that he wore patella braces throughout college was a sign that his Achilles injury was probably destined.

So where do we draft a receiver? Well, we also need a nose tackle, since Cody will either be cut or won't be in shape by preseason. Since the loss of Posey has only been an opportunity cost, the receiving talent has not regressed. But losing Cody will pose regression, so I think NT will be #1, and WR #2.

I agree, although WR is a huge need, NT is a bigger need. Cody will be gone in FA and Mitchell can't handle the position by himself. Also having a better NT lessens the need at ILB as well. WR would then be our 2nd round pick and with all the extra comp. picks we should have coming to us, trading up in the 2nd to get a really good WR would be very possible and plausible. Of course all of this is dependent on who is available to us at #27. A slight trade down from #27 to the top of the 2nd round might be an option to consider as well depending on who's available.

leebigeztx
02-15-2013, 02:13 AM
When I spoke to Pat Kirwan on sirius,he said texans had 9m in cap room. 9m of cap room and a very good deep wr draft is plenty to fill holes and get better. The texans can fill the nt spot with terrance knighton or sammy lee hill for cody money. That would allow them to attack the draft and fill holes. I would draft Williams from Baylor or Hunter from Tenn at bottom 1st. If they wait, they can get patton in 2nd or King in 3rd. They could also gamble and get rodgers in the 3rd. He might be the most physically gifted wr in the draft,but he busted a weed test and was kicked off the squad.

Lucky
02-15-2013, 02:50 AM
I don't think he got a signing (upfront) bonus that was prorated. He gets an annual $1m but seems either roster or performance based. IMO based on known info there is no bonus to move up if cut. There should be a true $4.5m cap savings.
From where is that info coming from? Walter had $11 million in guaranteed money. (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2523/kevin-walter) That was in a $5 million bonus and the first 2 seasons salaries ($6 million total). The salaries have been received, but that bonus didn't hit the cap in one year. There would be $2 million in dead money if Walter is released. If Walter is cut, it's a savings of $1.5 million.

If Walter again agrees to a salary reduction to $2 million,his cap number shrinks to $3 million. Thus, there would only be a $1 million difference in keeping Walter. If that's the case, the Texans would likely keep him. Here's what Kubiak had to say about Walter (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-sign-WR-Walter-Falcons-land-CB-Robinson-1707839.php) when he signed the contract:

“You can’t have enough Kevin Walters (http://www.chron.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=sports%2Ftexans&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Kevin+Walters%22) on your team,” Kubiak said. “He stands for everything we are. He’s a great kid, a hard worker, a player who does everything right on and off the field.Even if the Texans sign a FA WR and draft another WR early, Walter likely stays. They won't keep a Lestar Jean over Walter for a cap savings of $500K. And it's very unlikely that Posey makes it on the field in 2013. Even as a 4th WR, I think Kubiak will keep Walter.

tru80texan
02-15-2013, 07:26 AM
From where is that info coming from? Walter had $11 million in guaranteed money. (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2523/kevin-walter) That was in a $5 million bonus and the first 2 seasons salaries ($6 million total). The salaries have been received, but that bonus didn't hit the cap in one year. There would be $2 million in dead money if Walter is released. If Walter is cut, it's a savings of $1.5 million.

If Walter again agrees to a salary reduction to $2 million,his cap number shrinks to $3 million. Thus, there would only be a $1 million difference in keeping Walter. If that's the case, the Texans would likely keep him. Here's what Kubiak had to say about Walter (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-sign-WR-Walter-Falcons-land-CB-Robinson-1707839.php) when he signed the contract:

Even if the Texans sign a FA WR and draft another WR early, Walter likely stays. They won't keep a Lestar Jean over Walter for a cap savings of $500K. And it's very unlikely that Posey makes it on the field in 2013. Even as a 4th WR, I think Kubiak will keep Walter.

While I understand that there isn't a huge savings if Walter is cut, in the end its a savings that is needed. That 1.5M could help fill holes when you consider that Cody was roughly playing for that amount. So starting players can be had for that savings. I don't see the Texans paying a #3 or #4 wr 2M for the yr. That is dumb business & a waste to be honest. I believe they are simply taking too much heat now for not properly addressing the need & now the owner is even on the bandwagon to get a true #2 wr. Which I must admit I'm elated to see. When the owner speaks I'm sure the employees, kubiak & the FO, will take note & listen.

I also don't see the Texans giving up on Jean who has shown signs of potential to keep a player who is obviously past his prime & costing this team more money then he's worth. You simply don't dump cheap potential to keep a player who is in decline & overpaid imo. I know you don't think the savings is much, but its pretty obvious w/ the salary cap every penny counts & Walter is eating up valuable cap space.

As far as what kubiak had to say about Walter, was anything less expected? The running joke is that kubiak has a "man crush" on Walter which is why he refuses to replace him & honestly how many times has anyone seen a coach speak negatively about a player they just resigned? It simply won't happen & I'm sure if we dig deep enough we could find kubiak speaking highly of Jacoby after extending him & then he eventually cut him. Talking the player up & then eventually cutting them is hardly a new concept.

Lucky
02-15-2013, 08:06 AM
While I understand that there isn't a huge savings if Walter is cut, in the end its a savings that is needed. That 1.5M could help fill holes when you consider that Cody was roughly playing for that amount. So starting players can be had for that savings.

Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

b0ng
02-15-2013, 08:41 AM
I agree, although WR is a huge need, NT is a bigger need. Cody will be gone in FA and Mitchell can't handle the position by himself. Also having a better NT lessens the need at ILB as well. WR would then be our 2nd round pick and with all the extra comp. picks we should have coming to us, trading up in the 2nd to get a really good WR would be very possible and plausible. Of course all of this is dependent on who is available to us at #27. A slight trade down from #27 to the top of the 2nd round might be an option to consider as well depending on who's available.

If the Texans used an NT in their nickle and dime sets I could see NT being a bigger need, but we don't, and I can't imagine that they think it's 1st round need unless there's a guy there they thought wouldn't be available.

deucetx
02-15-2013, 09:38 AM
Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

And that is the problem and what tru80 is most likely trying to point out. A head coach must make this tough decision and sometimes step outside of his safety box, the status quo, to do something to take his team to another level. Hanging onto Walter takes away snaps and time from the younger receivers. Yeah, Jean barely did much in receiving. He also barely saw the field (105 passing plays to be exact, lowest of all WR's). Who do you think also gets majority snaps in practice? Won't be the young guys if they are barely seeing the field in the game.

If he continues to hold onto Walter he either:

A. Needs to push him down the depth chart and keep him there. In other words, resist the temptation to not turn to him and leaving younger players standing and not engaged.

B. Continues with the status quo where we get a #2 who needs to be schemed to get open too often, can't get even average YAC, and leaves us with only one viable threat from 15+ yards.

The WR position needs to be developed and he has not shown the ability to see that it gets done with Walter around. Will he if he finally pushes the guy to where he should be as a #3 or (in my real opinion) #4? We can't say for certain but past experience tells us no though he seemed to come close toward the end of the season with Posey. Then he turned around and reverted back to Walter in the playoffs who had the worst receiving numbers of everyone during that time. Well, until he realized he needed to spread the field against the Pats and put Posey in and what happens? We get down the field.

Either way this position actually needs to start moving forward except for churning in the mud like it continues to do.

thunderkyss
02-15-2013, 09:42 AM
If the Texans used an NT in their nickle and dime sets I could see NT being a bigger need, but we don't, and I can't imagine that they think it's 1st round need unless there's a guy there they thought wouldn't be available.

That's a big catch 22. I'm not a big proponent of using a high draft pick (1-3 rounds) on a NT. But if we had a better NT (Ngata, Raji, Wilfork) he'd be on the field on 3rd down. That would allow us to cut Antonio Smith if you're inclined to do so (I'm not, he's had helluvah years back to back & if not for Jj Watt, there'd be more talk about him).

But, the point is we don't use our NT in passing situations because we have Antonio Smith & Shuan Cody. If we had a Ngata type, Smith's snaps would be reduced as he'd probably rotate in & out.

badboy
02-15-2013, 09:52 AM
One thing is certain, the prospective WR#2 won't ever be Posey. I love his upside and work ethic, but the fact that he wore patella braces throughout college was a sign that his Achilles injury was probably destined.

So where do we draft a receiver? Well, we also need a nose tackle, since Cody will either be cut or won't be in shape by preseason. Since the loss of Posey has only been an opportunity cost, the receiving talent has not regressed. But losing Cody will pose regression, so I think NT will be #1, and WR #2.Although I agree with you & Wolfe about NT (see my precombine mock), I think it is highly possible, Ric Smith will go for a cheap vet in free agency. I am focusing on Barwin negotiations as off season progresses. If they have not completed a deal or moved on (ala Mario Williams) by draft, I could see another OLB in round one.

To your question on WR, I go in third round as my eliminating roster income allows us to go after a prime WR2 FA.

badboy
02-15-2013, 10:15 AM
From where is that info coming from? Walter had $11 million in guaranteed money. (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2523/kevin-walter) That was in a $5 million bonus and the first 2 seasons salaries ($6 million total). The salaries have been received, but that bonus didn't hit the cap in one year. There would be $2 million in dead money if Walter is released. If Walter is cut, it's a savings of $1.5 million.

If Walter again agrees to a salary reduction to $2 million,his cap number shrinks to $3 million. Thus, there would only be a $1 million difference in keeping Walter. If that's the case, the Texans would likely keep him. Here's what Kubiak had to say about Walter (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-sign-WR-Walter-Falcons-land-CB-Robinson-1707839.php) when he signed the contract:

Even if the Texans sign a FA WR and draft another WR early, Walter likely stays. They won't keep a Lestar Jean over Walter for a cap savings of $500K. And it's very unlikely that Posey makes it on the field in 2013. Even as a 4th WR, I think Kubiak will keep Walter.I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

After 76 pointed out site does say $5m roster earned year one, I stand corrected.

badboy
02-15-2013, 10:21 AM
Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.I'm not arguing for Jean or over Walter but Lestar's 6 catches were for 151 yds & 25.2 per. That + his age may give him an edge, especially if Smith gets a WR2 vet.

76Texan
02-15-2013, 10:31 AM
I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

BB, it reads "First year roster bonus $5M".

It looks to me he already got that $5M in his pocket; therefore, there will be $2M in dead money if Walter is cut.

tru80texan
02-15-2013, 10:33 AM
Cody's cap number in 2012 was $3 million not $1.5. And you misconstrued pretty much every other number I posted. Lestar Jean and his potential have accumulated 6 receptions in 2 years. There's not a doubt in my mind that Kubiak would keep Walter over Jean if the number is close.

I don't think I misconstrued anything, I simply stated, as did you, that cutting Walter leads to some savings regardless of if its perceived as small or large it is ultimately money saved that could be easily used to UPGRADE the team as opposed to remaining status quo. Status quo is obviously not progression for a position that has needed an infusion of youth & potential for quite some time. Walter is not the answer nor does he seem to have much more to offer or progress, so, imo, its simply time to take the savings his salary has to offer & allow the younger wr's a TRUE opportunity to get on the field & progress as opposed to being stuck behind a wr who is on the decline.

As far as Jean, I think your portrayal of his stats & potential is quite a bit skewed & unfair to be frank because as most of us know he was placed on the IR for his entire rookie season & he suffered a knee injury in his 2nd season that obviously contributed to his lack of production due to recovery. Omitting those factors & acting as if they don't matter or worth noting hardly paints an accurate or true picture of what Jean is potentially capable of. It's not as if he played & simply disappeared in games similar to Walter is known for. Once again, a player needs an opportunity to prove worth & that is something that is limited w/ Walter in the way. Jean, Martin, & Posey have yet be given that luxury & I would hope, I say that w/ some doubt, that Kubiak would be smart enough keep young cheap potential as opposed to an overpaid vet who is past prime. "Hope" is the key word.

Side note, I was referring to Cody's salary & not his cap number. I was simply showing that a starting players salary could be easily paid for w/ the savings the Texans could be getting by cutting Walter. It's seems to be a small amount, but once again every penny counts when you are trying to progress as a team imo.

tru80texan
02-15-2013, 10:42 AM
I got it from here : http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/

He has received his guaranteed money of $11m: 2010 $3m base + $1m roster; 2011 same ($4m); 2012 reduced salary to $2m + $1m roster or total $11m guaranteed & paid. His roster bonus in '13 &'14 should not be counted against cap imo as not guaranteed or upfront bonus. I don't think it would be dead money as he had to make roster to receive.

I have read & my understanding is that Walter could be cut this season withOUT any hit to the salary cap. I don't have a link & would need to research it again, but that was my belief & it somewhat seems that is yours as well if I'm understanding your post correctly. Don't want to misconstrued anything. LOL! JK. Honestly, I think any savings is better then retaining Walter & believe it is simply time to move on.

badboy
02-15-2013, 11:06 AM
BB, it reads "First year roster bonus $5M".

It looks to me he already got that $5M in his pocket; therefore, there will be $2M in dead money if Walter is cut.Looks like I'm wrong but as site shows it as a roster & prorated I thought it had to be paid each year if he made team. It does say "first year" so he evidently got it already.

badboy
02-15-2013, 11:17 AM
I have read & my understanding is that Walter could be cut this season withOUT any hit to the salary cap. I don't have a link & would need to research it again, but that was my belief & it somewhat seems that is yours as well if I'm understanding your post correctly. Don't want to misconstrued anything. LOL! JK. Honestly, I think any savings is better then retaining Walter & believe it is simply time to move on.Go to link posted http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/


and look lower left hand margin and it states his roster bonus of $5m being paid and 2012 salary reduction. This is what Lucky & I are discussing. I thought if a player got an upfront roster bonus it could not be prorated. As his seems to be prorated, it must work as does a regular signing bonus. Not sure why Texans differentiated it as roster rather than signing.

tru80texan
02-15-2013, 11:48 AM
Go to link posted http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/kevin-walter/


and look lower left hand margin and it states his roster bonus of $5m being paid and 2012 salary reduction. This is what Lucky & I are discussing. I thought if a player got an upfront roster bonus it could not be prorated. As his seems to be prorated, it must work as does a regular signing bonus. Not sure why Texans differentiated it as roster rather than signing.

Ok. I see it. Appreciate the info from you & 76, but I still say its time to move on. Take the money & run imo.

bobbeaux
02-16-2013, 03:22 PM
not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . . ;)

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . . ;)

tru80texan
02-16-2013, 03:51 PM
not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . . ;)

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . . ;)

My understanding is the Giants are going to try & keep Hixon. He has a little bit of an injury history, but he does seem to have some potential. I still Luke Barden's upside because of his size & speed.

I would throw OLB in your mix of wants/needs depending on which position they decide to play Reed at. I'm truly hoping Quin is re-signed so that S doesn't become a pressing need next season. I kinda like Pleasant & would like to see what he is capable of over Demps & Keo.

Insideop
02-16-2013, 08:53 PM
not sure about walter leaving, but i definitely think he's getting paid too much, imo.

a fa being left out of the discussion is dominic hixon . . . i like him and his production a lot better than barden . . . he starts when nicks is out of the lineup . . . he's had some injury issues, but he has good size/speed and has return game experience . . . i'd be surprised if he gets out of our price range . . . ;)

as far as the draft, i'm still leaning ilb, wr, nt, s and that's by our picks, not by rounds . . . if the quality at ilb isn't there at our #1, but safety is i'd go s, wr, ilb, nt . . . i believe there will be quality nt's to rotate in with campbell in the 3rd . . . ;)

I have a hunch that if Keenan Allen is still on the board at #27 the Texans will take him. If he's not there I think they go either ILB or OLB, depending on the Barwin situation.

bobbeaux
02-17-2013, 12:06 AM
My understanding is the Giants are going to try & keep Hixon. He has a little bit of an injury history, but he does seem to have some potential. I still Luke Barden's upside because of his size & speed.

I would throw OLB in your mix of wants/needs depending on which position they decide to play Reed at. I'm truly hoping Quin is re-signed so that S doesn't become a pressing need next season. I kinda like Pleasant & would like to see what he is capable of over Demps & Keo.

i want quin back too, but at our price and we need depth there anyway . . . quin could possibly go back to cb too . . . a lot rides on what we do in fa especially with our own as to what we should do in the draft . . . but, i wouldn't use our 1st rounder on a wr in this draft as i don't believe we would get any greater value than we could get with our 2nd . . . i could be wrong and someone drop, but i doubt it and still feel we'd be better off waiting . . . even with cushing back, i feel ilb is our greatest need and there are some solid ones to be had . . . if the top 3 are gone, there are some very solid safeties available as well . . . if we don't keep barwin, that should give us room for his replacement in fa too . . . ;)

BullBlitz
02-17-2013, 09:40 AM
Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.

We are only afraid of rookie WRs that we draft. We haven't drafted one that has had an impact in 10 YEARS.

ArlingtonTexan
02-17-2013, 10:18 AM
We are only afraid of rookie WRs that we draft. We haven't drafted one that has had an impact in 10 YEARS.

Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

tru80texan
02-17-2013, 11:29 AM
Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.

thunderkyss
02-17-2013, 11:44 AM
I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1...


With the way our offense runs, he'd have to be a really special guy for Schaub to even target him as much as he targets Walter. We've got several options, where many other teams who grab these 1st round WRs don't.

With that in mind, I don't care if he matches or surpasses Walter's production in yards or catches. I'd be happy with 20 to 30 catches with a 14+ yard average. The biggest difference between Torrey Smith & Kevin Walter is that Smith has 14+ yard catches (like a WR) where Walter has numbers that are more like a catching TEs. IMO, Harvin has numbers similar to Walter's, but Harvin is a threat with the ball in his hands where Walter is not.

BullBlitz
02-17-2013, 11:48 AM
Specifically for rookies that's not Texans thing but an NFL thing, this year there were only four with 50 or more catches (interesting that three were in the AFC south). Even if drafting the right one, few come and impactful. just takes a couple of years in most cases.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

link in case i miss counted

Yes, I agree. There are relatively few instances in which it pays to use a very high draft pick on a WR. I prefer the strategy of bringing in guys who have shown that they can play in the league.

As such, I would consider signing Harvin this year.

ArlingtonTexan
02-17-2013, 12:40 PM
I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.

I would like to think impact is more than be better than Kevin walter. as a pass catcher nearly anyone who gets the number of snaps as Kevin has can drop 40 catch and 500 yards. as you pointed out several rookies who were technically WR3s matched that 'prodcution. the texans need players who can cut into Andre's production because they offer something that makes the defense accountable to them.

tru80texan
02-17-2013, 01:11 PM
I would like to think impact is more than be better than Kevin walter. as a pass catcher nearly anyone who gets the number of snaps as Kevin has can drop 40 catch and 500 yards. as you pointed out several rookies who were technically WR3s matched that 'prodcution. the texans need players who can cut into Andre's production because they offer something that makes the defense accountable to them.

I kinda of relate this to the "baby steps" approach that Kubiak & his FO choose to utilize to show progress of any kind. We all have heard how Kubiak thinks Walter is an asset to the offense & considering he has refused to replace him or address the position adequately we can only assume any player that can produce MORE then Walter would most definitely have an impact on the Texans offense imo. I realize the bar isn't set high & "impact" is normally used for greater accomplishments, but this is the Texans led by kubiak. Small steps are glorified in Houston & 60+ receptions w/ 600+ yards would be great in year 1 IF that player shows promise to only get better. Getting Andre's eventual replacement is key, but as you mentioned we won't know that about a player until probably year 2 or 3. Until then we would need them to step in yr 1 & only produce better then Walter has, which shouldn't be difficult, & that would make an "impact" on the Texans imo.

As far as Harvin, the Texans can't afford him nor have they shown the willingness to deal w/ players whom others have deemed headaches. Can't see it happening & I'm not sure if I would want it to considering Harvin's past run ins w/ his organization & his injuries. There are options w/ less baggage imo.

CloakNNNdagger
02-17-2013, 01:59 PM
Not only does it take most rookie WRs (exception with some very high 1st round picks) a couple of years to truly develop, but Kubiak expects his WRs to be able to block to a decent extent, something that doesn't seem to be in many WRs' repertoires especially coming right out of college..........that's what's kept Walter here so long.......and may just very well keep him here for another season.

BullBlitz
02-17-2013, 01:59 PM
As far as Harvin, the Texans can't afford him nor have they shown the willingness to deal w/ players whom others have deemed headaches. Can't see it happening & I'm not sure if I would want it to considering Harvin's past run ins w/ his organization & his injuries. There are options w/ less baggage imo.

....can't afford...willingness to deal with players....baggage....

Yes, same story year after year. The reason they can never afford anything is because they don't spend their money wisely.

thunderkyss
02-17-2013, 02:22 PM
I kinda of relate this to the "baby steps" approach that Kubiak & his FO choose to utilize to show progress of any kind. We all have heard how Kubiak thinks Walter is an asset to the offense & considering he has refused to replace him or address the position adequately

You only get so many first round draft picks, and so many FA dollars. Kubiak definitely spent those resources to improve the defense. Seeing how the defense has ranked in the lower third of the league for the most part & the offense has been consistently in the upper third, it kinda makes sense.

In other words, I don't think they "refused" or "failed" to address the position "adequately"

Had you said they've done a piss poor job at developing WR talent, I'd agree with you 100%. Kubiak, Dennison, & Larry Kirksey (our WR coach) have done a bad job identifying talented players with high football character in the later rounds or in Free Agency.

tru80texan
02-17-2013, 02:26 PM
Not only does it take most rookie WRs (exception with some very high 1st round picks) a couple of years to truly develop, but Kubiak expects his WRs to be able to block to a decent extent, something that doesn't seem to be in many WRs' repertoires especially coming right out of college..........that's what's kept Walter here so long.......and may just very well keep him here for another season.

That has to be the most overblown exaggeration of any one ability to justify Walter. I have yet to see ANY of the Texans WR's criticised by anyone for being just piss poor blockers. It's never been noticeable by watching the game, which I normally do w/ most at least twice, nor has it ever been emphasized by any Texan coach or member of the media on how all the other wr's are just so lacking in the blocking dept that none can compare to Walter's out of this world blocking. Needless to say, Walter may be a good blocker but he doesn't outshine the others to a noticeable degree imo. As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.

Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

bobbeaux
02-17-2013, 02:37 PM
I have a hunch that if Keenan Allen is still on the board at #27 the Texans will take him. If he's not there I think they go either ILB or OLB, depending on the Barwin situation.

i'd rather they target a robert woods - usc, justin hunter - tenn or terrance williams - baylor in the 2nd . . . ;)

tru80texan
02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
You only get so many first round draft picks, and so many FA dollars. Kubiak definitely spent those resources to improve the defense. Seeing how the defense has ranked in the lower third of the league for the most part & the offense has been consistently in the upper third, it kinda makes sense.

In other words, I don't think they "refused" or "failed" to address the position "adequately"

Had you said they've done a piss poor job at developing WR talent, I'd agree with you 100%. Kubiak, Dennison, & Larry Kirksey (our WR coach) have done a bad job identifying talented players with high football character in the later rounds or in Free Agency.

I think BullBlitz answered your dilemma best in the post of above yours. Money not spent wisely. Re-signing Walter & Jacoby would be great indicators of that for starters.

You say the money has been spent to rebuild the defense, but then you have to take into account that Reed, Barwin, Cushing, Watt, Kareem, & Quin were all playing under rookie contracts & starters. Rookie contracts are hardly the most expensive & considering more then half of the starting defense was or is playing under rookie contracts you would think there should be money to spare. That should be a lot of savings but as we all know the Texans have had salary cap issues & still do to some degree. So money not being spent wisely could very easily sum up why other positions have been neglected along the way & once again it all goes back to some degree, Smith is not in the clear on this one, to the HC who has his hands in it all.

thunderkyss
02-17-2013, 02:54 PM
As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.


Where Walter excels over the other WRs is on the edges of the OL. Like a TE who traps a DE inside, or delivers a wham block to an unsuspecting DT/LB coming up the middle.

Jacoby was a better blocker on the edge, I think, because he'd pull the DB away from the LOS, the safety would have to pay attention to him, & Jacoby would block the CB on him allowing Foster to break a 30 yard run & Foster could use him to set up the safety.

Andre sucks (at blocking, he was particularly bad against New England in the divisional round).

Walter is a flex player, imo, WR/TE. He's a better Owen Daniels, since OD can't block worth a sht... not that Walter could block a DE head up.



Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

infantrycak
02-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Andre sucks (at blocking, he was particularly bad against New England in the divisional round).

OK, go to the optometrist or ophthalmologist because you are blind if you think AJ sucks at blocking.

tru80texan
02-17-2013, 03:54 PM
OK, go to the optometrist or ophthalmologist because you are blind if you think AJ sucks at blocking.

Kinda let that go because I've already said I have yet to see ANY Texans WR critisized for poor blocking...Andre included. Andre has very few holes in his game imo. Letting an easy pass hit the ground on occasion is probably his lone fault & is erased w/ all the other good aspects of his game...including his blocking imo.

badboy
02-17-2013, 06:34 PM
I realize 50 receptions may not seem like a lot to some, but to me that is more then Walter contributed & thus would be quite an impact for the Texans. Especially if you take into account the yards & TD's that were accumulated w/ those receptions for some of those rookies.

My definition of "impact" is any player who can surpass Walter's production in year 1, which shouldn't be that difficult considering the following rookie wr's were all capable of doing that & have upside & potential to only get better: K. Wright, J. Blackmon, TY Hilton, Josh Gordon, Chris Givens, Michael Floyd, & one TE in Dwayne Allen all outperformed Walter. Some could easily throw Rod Streater in there as well, despite having 2 less receptions then Walter he still surpassed him in yards & TD's. Once all the names are considered you then have to figure in the fact that ALL of them surpassed Walter's production as #2 & most of them as #3 WR's.

For what we need...I think a rookie could & would do fine if given the opportunity because its obvious that our current #2 wr has not set any unattainable standards. Multiple rookies outperformed him this year & some did it while playing in lesser roles as #3 WR's for their offenses. We just need improvement, as far as production, w/ potential for the future as opposed to taking the NFL by storm year 1 imo.This is my thought on my pre-combine mock with Kawaan Short replacing Smith and Cody being replaced by Williams. Even if they just perform status quo will be cheaper and younger.

CloakNNNdagger
02-17-2013, 09:46 PM
That has to be the most overblown exaggeration of any one ability to justify Walter. I have yet to see ANY of the Texans WR's criticised by anyone for being just piss poor blockers. It's never been noticeable by watching the game, which I normally do w/ most at least twice, nor has it ever been emphasized by any Texan coach or member of the media on how all the other wr's are just so lacking in the blocking dept that none can compare to Walter's out of this world blocking. Needless to say, Walter may be a good blocker but he doesn't outshine the others to a noticeable degree imo. As I said earlier, its an exaggeration to justify one unproductive player who doesn't deserve to be a starter. If blocking is a wr's best asset, that is a problem regardless of someone tries to.spin it. I am just glad McNair is FINALLY making it known that he believes a playmaker is needed, not just a blocker.

Too bad the HC is once again needing to be guided by the owner on what is needed to improve this team, but that's for another thread.

I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

steelbtexan
02-17-2013, 10:13 PM
I think BullBlitz answered your dilemma best in the post of above yours. Money not spent wisely. Re-signing Walter & Jacoby would be great indicators of that for starters.

You say the money has been spent to rebuild the defense, but then you have to take into account that Reed, Barwin, Cushing, Watt, Kareem, & Quin were all playing under rookie contracts & starters. Rookie contracts are hardly the most expensive & considering more then half of the starting defense was or is playing under rookie contracts you would think there should be money to spare. That should be a lot of savings but as we all know the Texans have had salary cap issues & still do to some degree. So money not being spent wisely could very easily sum up why other positions have been neglected along the way & once again it all goes back to some degree, Smith is not in the clear on this one, to the HC who has his hands in it all.

What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

thunderkyss
02-17-2013, 10:17 PM
What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

whoever it is, they're cheap bastards.

steelbtexan
02-17-2013, 10:20 PM
I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

The Texans dont seem to have many legitimate answers for alot of things they do.

Walter/4 yrs of Schaub with a wackedout bonus structure/The bonus structure of Foster etc.... with a known heart problem.

Makes you wonder who's calling the shots in the FO and what they were thinking/drinking.

Uncle Rico
02-17-2013, 11:33 PM
offer a 2nd rounder for percy harvin. problem solved.

steelbtexan
02-17-2013, 11:42 PM
offer a 2nd rounder for percy harvin. problem solved.

+ 10 mil, with a fully torn ankle ligament?


PASS

tru80texan
02-18-2013, 11:17 AM
I'd invite you to back off of me. This is not my opinion........I was simply relating that this is what the Texans have been spouting all along to justify Walter's existence..........not a reason that I share as legitimate for the Texans having made that decision.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do w/ you personally. My response concerning the SUBJECT of WALTER would've be the same regardless of who posted it. I think it's a BS justification for an unproductive player. Bottom line. So please don't assume that I'm some how targeting or on you because that is far from the truth.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2013, 11:19 AM
Just to be clear, this has nothing to do w/ you personally. My response concerning the SUBJECT of WALTER would've be the same regardless of who posted it. I think it's a BS justification for an unproductive player. Bottom line. So please don't assume that I'm some how targeting or on you because that is far from the truth.


:handshake:

tru80texan
02-18-2013, 11:28 AM
What is Smith/Olson's job and who is screwing up the cap Yr after Yr?

Oh I believe Smith is just as much at fault, if not slightly more, then kubiak but kubiak is the one who chooses the players that he wants to obtain or retain & if money is being wasted on ineffective & unproductive players then that's just as much on kubiak IMO. Kubiak simply ok'ing the re-signing Walter & Jacoby puts him at fault to some degree because neither one of them were a legitimate #2 WR nor did they improve the WR position. That was a waste of money once you consider at one point that it costed the Texans 6.5-7M in salary. Smith may have overpaid them, but Kubiak wanted them. It goes hand in hand IMO.

tru80texan
02-18-2013, 11:33 AM
:handshake:

:thumbup:

Brisco_County
02-18-2013, 01:53 PM
I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

steelbtexan
02-18-2013, 08:45 PM
I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

He's probably angry that with his talent he ended up having to go to La. Tech LOL

tru80texan
02-19-2013, 12:10 AM
I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

I don't mind a little fire in a player. Our offense could use a player that gets a little fired up as long as it doesn't cost the team. Hopefully that's a lesson he learns quickly, but a little attitude never hurts imo.

Texn4life
02-19-2013, 01:22 AM
I just spoke to a co-worker whose son plays for Lousianana Tech. He said that Quinton Patton has some anger issues that he needs to iron out when he goes pro.

I said in a previous post I believe in this thread that you can tell he plays with an edge and a chip on his shoulder. Some of the greatest receivers in the game are hot heads so that doesn't concern me. We have a good mix of veterans and young guys so a guy like Andre would be able to keep him under wraps. He hasn't gotten in any off field trouble from what I know and that's all that matters to me. Teams do so much digging when evaluating a player so if he's that much of a problem then reports will come out as draft day approaches. He's probably the one receiver I'd want in this draft outside of Patterson so I'd be happy if his name is called when we pick.

leebigeztx
02-19-2013, 03:07 AM
I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

tru80texan
02-19-2013, 12:57 PM
I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

You do realize that list of top FA WR's consist of 2 former 1st round picks, 1 2nd round pick, & 1 3rd round pick? I would consider at least the two 1st rounders & the 2nd rounder "high picks". Some could even make a debate for the 3rd rounder. Posey has been the highest pick used on a WR since Jacoby despite the position needing some help for a few years now & no player of real significance has been brought in via FA to fill the void for lengthy period of time. I think that's where the lack of patience comes from because outside of Andre the position is in need of help & that has been the situation for at least a couple of years now IMO.

badboy
02-19-2013, 01:09 PM
I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?My lack of patience stems from ignoring the WR position for so long, JJ not working out, and our guys from last draft doing so much less that was expected. Add to the list Jean who has difficulty remaining on field and him not being a high draft pick that I can easily move on from.

Bulls on Parade
02-19-2013, 02:11 PM
Any chance we can make enough cap space to sign 28-year-old Miles Austin if the Dallas Cowboys release him for salary purposes? I'm assuming we can release 31-year-old Kevin Walter and he'll probably end up in Dallas.

That would be funny if we basically swap number two wide receivers with our in-state rivals. Except we would end up with the much more explosive and younger guy to better compliment Andre Johnson.

CloakNNNdagger
02-19-2013, 10:51 PM
Any chance we can make enough cap space to sign 28-year-old Miles Austin if the Dallas Cowboys release him for salary purposes? I'm assuming we can release 31-year-old Kevin Walter and he'll probably end up in Dallas.

That would be funny if we basically swap number two wide receivers with our in-state rivals. Except we would end up with the much more explosive and younger guy to better compliment Andre Johnson.

I like Miles Austin...........when he's healthy. He had some decent numbers, but if he comes back this year with recurrent injuries of what he suffered through last year........hip, hamstring and ankle.........his numbers may not be so acceptable. I wouldn't break the bank.

Texn4life
02-20-2013, 12:07 AM
[/B]My lack of patience stems from ignoring the WR position for so long, JJ not working out, and our guys from last draft doing so much less that was expected. Add to the list Jean who has difficulty remaining on field and him not being a high draft pick that I can easily move on from.

11 years with only 1 consistently dependable receiver during that time? I would say that the fan base has been more than patient when it comes to the receiver position. I wouldn't go the Atlanta route to get a dynamic number 2 because there's no Julio Jones in this draft from what I can see, but its a weakness on our team. A good franchise should always look to improve weaknesses.

deucetx
02-20-2013, 09:23 AM
I don't care what kind of supposed pressure the fan base implies,you have to build a team capable of long term success. The foundation is good,but can get better and that includes the wr opposite of andre and his successor. I mean we all know how pathetic the offense is minus andre either by injury,double team,or elite corner. They need a guy,a young guy capable of being a top target wthin 2 or 3 yrs as andre fades. That guy can get training this year whether its hunter,williams,or some other guy. For the fan base who wants to pass because of the duration it might or might not take,then that's your choice. Maybe if kubiak and smith had desperation like some think,then maybe they would risk losing cushing to pay this all out wr who was probably drafted where the texans are drafting now. Of the top wrs is the game now,how many were drafted high? In fact,the top free agents wrs this year none were high picks. Jennings,bowe,wallace,nicks, not 1. So why the lack of patience by the fanbase?

Other than being wrong about when those receivers were drafted....who the heck has been touting we want them? I think most fans know we can't afford none of the high dollar guys you listed and haven't said much about that. We're talking someone that can give us more flexibility whether it means they are capable of getting YAC off our forever running quick slants or that can run deep instead of Dre being the only one. We're talking Ramsen Barden type or Steve Breaston. Affordable in other words.

A future #1 will most likely need to be developed for long term. But right now we need someone that can contribute and give this offense a playmaking weapon. You don't have to be a top tier guy to do this.

bobbeaux
02-20-2013, 01:55 PM
Other than being wrong about when those receivers were drafted....who the heck has been touting we want them? I think most fans know we can't afford none of the high dollar guys you listed and haven't said much about that. We're talking someone that can give us more flexibility whether it means they are capable of getting YAC off our forever running quick slants or that can run deep instead of Dre being the only one. We're talking Ramsen Barden type or Steve Breaston. Affordable in other words.

A future #1 will most likely need to be developed for long term. But right now we need someone that can contribute and give this offense a playmaking weapon. You don't have to be a top tier guy to do this.

breaston's recent release is a nice addition to the list of possibilities . . . still would like to see the texans at least make an offer to hixon and see if he can be pried away from the giants . . . ;)

leebigeztx
02-22-2013, 09:13 AM
You do realize that list of top FA WR's consist of 2 former 1st round picks, 1 2nd round pick, & 1 3rd round pick? I would consider at least the two 1st rounders & the 2nd rounder "high picks". Some could even make a debate for the 3rd rounder. Posey has been the highest pick used on a WR since Jacoby despite the position needing some help for a few years now & no player of real significance has been brought in via FA to fill the void for lengthy period of time. I think that's where the lack of patience comes from because outside of Andre the position is in need of help & that has been the situation for at least a couple of years now IMO.

I never knew the 23rd,29,and 52 were considered high picks. A high pick to me is at least top 15. Dwane bowe was picked right around wherethe texans are drafting. There will be some high quality,impactful wr right there. In fact, jennings who was drafted at 52, there will also be a few high quality wrs sitting right there.

My point is, the texans can draft not only a short term answer,but also a long term answer at wr. The texans not only need a #2,but they need a future #1 type also. You can't short change the process.

tru80texan
02-22-2013, 02:31 PM
I never knew the 23rd,29,and 52 were considered high picks. A high pick to me is at least top 15. Dwane bowe was picked right around wherethe texans are drafting. There will be some high quality,impactful wr right there. In fact, jennings who was drafted at 52, there will also be a few high quality wrs sitting right there.

My point is, the texans can draft not only a short term answer,but also a long term answer at wr. The texans not only need a #2,but they need a future #1 type also. You can't short change the process.

Well...I guess now you know. I think most consider the round that a player is selected, not necessarily the pick position when judging if it was a "high pick". 1st & 2nd rounders are considered "high picks" IMO & most expect those players to be contributors. Not everyone can have a top 15 pick & frankly most prefer not to have a top 15 considering you had to have a lackluster season to obtain one. I agree the Texans could fulfill their need at WR where they are drafting(27th), BUT the 1st step for them would actually be drafting a quality player w/ a quality college career early w/in the 1st round or 2 which is not what they have done over the years. This helps explain why the WR position has reached it's current state. Drafting a, for the most part, unknown player out of Lane College & another player who sat out a whole season in college is not necessarily addressing the position in the best possible way IMO.

HOU-TEX
02-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door

Nick Scurfield‏@NickScurfield

Ryan Swope said he texts weekly with Gary Kubiak’s son Klint, a GA who coached WRs at Texas A&M #Texans #NFLCombine

*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread

Norg
02-23-2013, 11:26 PM
last year andre finally stayed healthy all season "knocks on wood: i this this year he has alot more left in the tank he will do good things

Texn4life
02-24-2013, 12:54 AM
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door



*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread

I think Swope is gonna be a good receiver in the league. I've heard some people mention him being small but he weighed in at 6 ft even today. Played running back in the past so he has good instincts running after the catch, and he's tough as nails. Don't think we'll draft him even though he'd probably fit better in this offense than Martin.

SAMURAITEXAN
02-24-2013, 01:09 AM
I think Swope is gonna be a good receiver in the league. I've heard some people mention him being small but he weighed in at 6 ft even today. Played running back in the past so he has good instincts running after the catch, and he's tough as nails. Don't think we'll draft him even though he'd probably fit better in this offense than Martin.

Swope wants to be a Texan and is Texans fan. I always welcome a player that is Texans fan. He is likely to play extra hard for the team.

thunderkyss
02-24-2013, 02:24 PM
last year andre finally stayed healthy all season "knocks on wood: i this this year he has alot more left in the tank he will do good things

One thing I do worry about, we're going into the season again hoping Matt & Andre don't miss significant time. I know most fans hope their QB & #1 WR don't miss significant time, but we don't have a good history.

I feel good that another year in the system & our OL is going to help Foster dominate & control games, which will help in the event we lose Matt. If we're talking 2 or 3 games, I don't have a problem with Tj Yates waiting in the wings. Like most people on this board, if Matt misses more than that I don't have a lot of confidence with our current "plan" but who, in the NFL, does?

Andre... I'd feel better if Posey hadn't suffered an achilles rupture. I do not feel good with our coaching staff to get a rookie up to speed by December, much less anytime Andre may miss before that.

ArlingtonTexan
02-25-2013, 12:31 AM
Swope wants to be a Texan and is Texans fan. I always welcome a player that is Texans fan. He is likely to play extra hard for the team.

Swope was productive at A & M and has put up a good athletic profile at the combine. EVen if a some nepotism, he is comes off as a kevin walter with legitimate athletic ability.

tru80texan
02-25-2013, 08:12 AM
Swope was productive at A & M and has put up a good athletic profile at the combine. EVen if a some nepotism, he is comes off as a kevin walter with legitimate athletic ability.

I think Swope has helped himself to be honest. I honestly didn't think he was as big or as fast as he has measured up to be at the combine. Combined w/ his YAC ability & toughness that I've seen him play with...I'm kinda impressed. Outside of the color of their skin I don't believe him & Walter are anywhere similar to each other. Walter is bigger in size, but outside of that Swope seems to have more potential then Walter ever has.

ArlingtonTexan
02-25-2013, 08:31 AM
I think Swope has helped himself to be honest. I honestly didn't think he was as big or as fast as he has measured up to be at the combine. Combined w/ his YAC ability & toughness that I've seen him play with...I'm kinda impressed. Outside of the color of their skin I don't believe him & Walter are anywhere similar to each. Walter is bigger in size, but outside of that Swope seems to have more potential then Walter ever has.

yeah, there was a bit of lazy with KW comp, but considering the size/speed of Swope the Aggie seemed to use him on more short/intermediate stuff. but yeah Swope could be a legitimate WR2 or very good guy out of the slot.

El Tejano
02-25-2013, 08:50 AM
Well I like Marquis Goodwin as an option too. He can stretch the field and he would be useful in the reverses we like to run.

steelbtexan
02-25-2013, 08:56 AM
Hunter or Rodgers in the 1st

Swope or Tavarres King in the 4th

The WR corps would be set for the next decade or so. This is the way I would draft, even at the expense of other positions. The value is certainly there.

tru80texan
02-25-2013, 08:59 AM
Well I like Marquis Goodwin as an option too. He can stretch the field and he would be useful in the reverses we like to run.

I like Goodwin, but w/ his size I think he truly is a slot WR. His speed is great, but his size might make most think he his too small to play on the outside. I think the Texans believe they have that type of player in Martin minus the exceptional speed.

tru80texan
02-25-2013, 09:03 AM
Hunter or Rodgers in the 1st

Swope or Tavarres King in the 4th

The WR corps would be set for the next decade or so. This is the way I would draft, even at the expense of other positions. The value is certainly there.


I don't see Swope making it to the 4th round much less the late portion of the 4th. Like I said earlier, I think he helped his stock enough to get himself into the 3rd.

I do like Hunter though.

HOU-TEX
02-25-2013, 10:12 AM
Wowsers! I had no idea Swope was that fast. A 4.34 is haulin ass. I have always kinda blown off the Combine field exercises (although, I still watch), but this kid had to have helped himself with his 40 time. No way he makes it past the 2nd day, imo. Props to the dude

El Tejano
02-25-2013, 01:11 PM
I like Goodwin, but w/ his size I think he truly is a slot WR. His speed is great, but his size might make most think he his too small to play on the outside. I think the Texans believe they have that type of player in Martin minus the exceptional speed.

I believe that Goodwin will have better hands then Martin.

tru80texan
02-25-2013, 02:14 PM
I believe that Goodwin will have better hands then Martin.

That may be. I like Goodwin, I'm just not sure if the Texans would be willing to put Martin, or even Jean to be honest, on the backburner after 1 season. If Goodwin looks to be something special, the so be it but I don't think Goodwin would the #2 because of his size & that would still need to be addressed imo.

beerlover
02-25-2013, 02:58 PM
Tavon Austin is the most special talent matched to Texan 1st rd draft slot. I would now say with respect to my fellow peers, Texans F/O, coaches & players BPA @ position of need.

He is NFL ready. Impact player. Field stretcher. Dynamic playmaker. In short a shot in the offensive arm :texflag:

GP
02-25-2013, 03:25 PM
Tavon Austin is the most special talent matched to Texan 1st rd draft slot. I would now say with respect to my fellow peers, Texans F/O, coaches & players BPA @ position of need.

He is NFL ready. Impact player. Field stretcher. Dynamic playmaker. In short a shot in the offensive arm :texflag:

ZERO chance he makes it to our spot.

He's the darling of the combine thus far. Speed and hands, he won't be there for us.

steelbtexan
02-25-2013, 03:40 PM
I don't see Swope making it to the 4th round much less the late portion of the 4th. Like I said earlier, I think he helped his stock enough to get himself into the 3rd.

I do like Hunter though.

Then I would trade back into the 3rd and pick him.

You could then get an OT like Fragel, ILB Klein/Swope in the 3rd. That's 3 potential impact players due to the depth of this draft.

Hunter/Swope WR problem taken care of

Brandon Williams NT in Rd.2

Klein- ILB taken care of

Fragel- OT taken care of, Fragel reminds me of a better version of Winston.


Would everybody be happy adding 5 guys that can play in one draft? A draft like this would rival the 2006 draft. IMHO

Texans_Chick
02-25-2013, 04:13 PM
Overall, early in my draft view, I am much more encouraged by this group of WRs than I was with last year's group. Last year, I really tried to find players I thought would be great fits for the Texans, but there was always some this or that that didn't make various options good values for development at the top of the draft.

Ultimately, I try to find positives out of negatives, and if there is any positive about the disappointment of the end last season, I think it creates more urgency on the offensive side of the ball. And if as McNair has clearly said that they want more offensive playmakers, this might be a handy draft for that.

b0ng
02-25-2013, 04:13 PM
Welp, you can probably pencil Swope in as one of our mid to late round picks. A&M alum and buddies with Kubiaks kid = Shoe in the door



*edit* And NO, I'm not saying he will or will not be an option as a #2 WR. Didn't want to create a new thread

Swope is going to go a lot higher than mid or late rounds. I think he's gone by the time the Texans get to their compensatory pick in the 3rd.

HOU-TEX
02-25-2013, 04:17 PM
Wowsers! I had no idea Swope was that fast. A 4.34 is haulin ass. I have always kinda blown off the Combine field exercises (although, I still watch), but this kid had to have helped himself with his 40 time. No way he makes it past the 2nd day, imo. Props to the dude

Swope is going to go a lot higher than mid or late rounds. I think he's gone by the time the Texans get to their compensatory pick in the 3rd.

Yezzir, I acknowledged I might've underestimated him earlier today. I wouldn't have a problem using a 3rd on him.

Plus, he has a cool name. :winky:

beerlover
02-25-2013, 10:43 PM
ZERO chance he makes it to our spot.

He's the darling of the combine thus far. Speed and hands, he won't be there for us.

There is always a chance. Combine is just one facet in the process. His size & weight will continue to hold his stock in check, there are also plenty of WR's with intriguing story's to tell. A real strong OT & DT class, not to mention teams covet & reach for QB' every year.

I've seen him mocked to Texans for months, now I see why.

Texan_Bill
02-25-2013, 11:02 PM
At the end of the day, Owen Daniels is the Texans #2 receiver!!

Signed, Shannon Sharpe!

Bulls on Parade
02-25-2013, 11:05 PM
If the Texans look at what the Patriots are doing then there would be plenty of cap space to add a legitimate number two wide receiver during free agency. It's on you, RICK SMITH! But he pays Matt Schaub more money than Tom Brady is now making. When he didn't even have to give Schaub that extension that fast. It should have waited until now but that's another topic for another day.

Unless we're talking about a can't miss "Randy Moss or Julio Jones" type guy, I find it far fetched that we're going to add an impact player right away at the position. We need somebody who can compliment Andre Johnson right now. Not two or three years down the road, which is a reasonable time frame it takes most rookie wideouts to develop into a legit two if not a pro bowler. By then Andre Johnson will already be washed up and near retirement.

Our window of opportunity to win a Super Bowl, at least with Andre Johnson still performing at an elite level, is likely 2013, 2014 and 2015. Three more seasons at best. I can't imagine he'll still be as good nearing 35 years old going into 2016 with 13 years of NFL experience under his belt.

We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.

Another rookie wide receiver isn't going to do "JACK" for us. And I'm only being nice when I say that. We need an established difference maker if we expect to compliment a still productive Andre Johnson.

beerlover
02-26-2013, 12:46 AM
If the Texans look at what the Patriots are doing then there would be plenty of cap space to add a legitimate number two wide receiver during free agency. It's on you, RICK SMITH! But he pays Matt Schaub more money than Tom Brady is now making. When he didn't even have to give Schaub that extension that fast. It should have waited until now but that's another topic for another day.

Unless we're talking about a can't miss "Randy Moss or Julio Jones" type guy, I find it far fetched that we're going to add an impact player right away at the position. We need somebody who can compliment Andre Johnson right now. Not two or three years down the road, which is a reasonable time frame it takes most rookie wideouts to develop into a legit two if not a pro bowler. By then Andre Johnson will already be washed up and near retirement.

Our window of opportunity to win a Super Bowl, at least with Andre Johnson still performing at an elite level, is likely 2013, 2014 and 2015. Three more seasons at best. I can't imagine he'll still be as good nearing 35 years old going into 2016 with 13 years of NFL experience under his belt.

We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.

Another rookie wide receiver isn't going to do "JACK" for us. And I'm only being nice when I say that. We need an established difference maker if we expect to compliment a still productive Andre Johnson.

Very solid post & agree with everything (would love to add a Greg Jennings) but its simply not true that a rookie WR can't do jack for this team @ a clear position of need like receiver. Austin, as discussed would impact this offense immediately with his speed alone. He can create separation underneath or over the top. Like his character too, nothing seems to big for the moment, just execute.

Bulls on Parade
02-26-2013, 09:13 AM
Very solid post & agree with everything (would love to add a Greg Jennings) but its simply not true that a rookie WR can't do jack for this team @ a clear position of need like receiver. Austin, as discussed would impact this offense immediately with his speed alone. He can create separation underneath or over the top. Like his character too, nothing seems to big for the moment, just execute.
I'm sure you can find a lot more instances of rookie wideouts having a big impact in their rookie season. I forgot to mention A.J. Green in my last post along with guys like Randy Moss and Julio Jones. I was just naming guys off the top of my head. But most of the time you're not going to find a wide receiver, especially late in the first round, who will come in and light the world on fire.

Dez Bryant from the Dallas Cowboys, for example, if you look at his production during his first three years in the NFL... That's usually the norm when it comes to a wide receiver developing in the pros. It's going to take two or three years before we know if we hit a home run or not with our rookie wideout. And like I said, by then we'll be in the market for a new number one because Andre Johnson will already be on the decline.

But my point being is that it generally takes two or three years for most rookie wide receivers to flourish into a good player. Gary Kubiak mentioned a few days ago that he believes players make their biggest leap from year one to year two, and he is hoping Keshawn Martin becomes a more consistent playmaker next season.

We already have too many young wide receivers on our roster. I know it's unfortunate DeVier Posey is injured at the moment, but I'd rather give Lestar Jean or Jeff Maehl a good and hard look going into next season.

If I were the Texans GM (and I know many of us would love to trade jobs with Rick Smith), I would release Kevin Walter and try to find the cap space to add a good and proven veteran wide receiver in free agency. I would even consider trading our 27th pick in round one if it could land us a good wide receiver via a trade.

I wouldn't even spend one draft pick on any wide receiver in this draft. In any round. Perhaps sign a couple undrafted rookie wideouts at best. To come to camp and compete with the other young guys we already have. And by that I'm only talking about 3-6 on the depth chart. We can probably keep a few on the practice squad.

We need immediate help right now at the number two wide receiver position to compliment Andre Johnson (while he's still a beast). If the Texans make the right moves this off-season we can definitely win the Super Bowl next year. But if they think they're going to land a difference maker at wide receiver with the 27th overall pick -- they're setting themselves up for disappointment yet again. We may as well just give the AFC to the Patriots right now...

IDEXAN
02-26-2013, 09:18 AM
I don't really see the Texans' guy here if they still want a WR, an "outside" guy who can truly "spread" the field and still be of sufficient size & physicality to be a downfield blocker as Kubiak expects his WRs to be in his offense. Two early favs were Clemson's DeAndre Hopkins & Baylor's Terrance Williams, but both were unable to crack 4.5, so that's an issue for a receiver you want to possess the kind of long-speed needed to attract over-top coverage from a safety for assisting the corner on deep routes.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:49 AM
At the end of the day, Owen Daniels is the Texans #2 receiver!!

Signed, Shannon Sharpe!

Serious Question. Has OD ever performed at Shannon Sharpe's level? I mean SS is a HOFer

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 09:53 AM
We need a big free agent signing if we expect to find that immediate help at the number two wide receiver position. It sucks we failed to sign Reggie Wayne last off-season -- after Andre Johnson tried to recruit his fellow Miami Hurricane friend, but now we need to try and land the big name wideout in free agency this off-season. Whoever it may be.


Reggie Wayne was never on the market. (http://www.cbssports.com/general/blog/eye-on-football/17776840/report-colts-reggie-wayne-agree-to-3year-contract)
The Colts drafted Reggie Wayne in the first round of the 2001 NFL Draft. After an 11-year career, it appeared that Wayne would be hawking his wares eleswhere in free agency. Turns out, he's not leaving Indianapolis: after being without a team for roughly five hours, he signed a three-year contract with the Colts Tuesday night, ESPN's Adam Schefter reported via Twitter.

He was never really a FA. You can't really say "we failed" when he was never really available.

VTexan
02-26-2013, 10:23 AM
Mike Wallace would be an amazing compliment. Then I remember Matt Schaub probably can't out throw him.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 10:25 AM
Mike Wallace would be an amazing compliment. Then I remember Matt Schaub probably can't out throw him.

Not a problem if he can adjust to the ball in the air.

deucetx
02-26-2013, 10:28 AM
Serious Question. Has OD ever performed at Shannon Sharpe's level? I mean SS is a HOFer


Eh, maybe 2008 and this season going on receptions/yards but they don't compare to Sharpe's best seasons, just his good ones. He went over 1k a few times (which OD never did) and routinely found the endzone too which of course is something we kind of wish we had around here. Seemed a magnet for touchdowns back then.

deucetx
02-26-2013, 10:31 AM
Mike Wallace would be an amazing compliment. Then I remember Matt Schaub probably can't out throw him.

While I highly doubt it can happen due to cap and blah, I don't think we should look at a speed receiver and only think 'Schaub can't get it to him' (which he probably can't, heh). But guys like Wallace are playmakers who can take that slant and make 5 yards into 10 yards. They can get open quicker on these short/intermediate patterns meaning Schaub could get the ball out that much quicker and do something after the catch. That is something that has been severely lacking.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 10:35 AM
Eh, maybe 2008 and this season going on receptions/yards but they don't compare to Sharpe's best seasons, just his good ones. He went over 1k a few times (which OD never did) and routinely found the endzone too which of course is something we kind of wish we had around here. Seemed a magnet for touchdowns back then.

While OD has some YAC capability, he's nothing compared to Sharpe. That man had burst & speed & strength. He would score from 25 & 30 yards out on the regular. OD isn't in that class.


In OD's defense, nobody is. Not even Gronk or Jimmy Graham.

steelbtexan
02-26-2013, 11:50 AM
I'm sure you can find a lot more instances of rookie wideouts having a big impact in their rookie season. I forgot to mention A.J. Green in my last post along with guys like Randy Moss and Julio Jones. I was just naming guys off the top of my head. But most of the time you're not going to find a wide receiver, especially late in the first round, who will come in and light the world on fire.

Dez Bryant from the Dallas Cowboys, for example, if you look at his production during his first three years in the NFL... That's usually the norm when it comes to a wide receiver developing in the pros. It's going to take two or three years before we know if we hit a home run or not with our rookie wideout. And like I said, by then we'll be in the market for a new number one because Andre Johnson will already be on the decline.

But my point being is that it generally takes two or three years for most rookie wide receivers to flourish into a good player. Gary Kubiak mentioned a few days ago that he believes players make their biggest leap from year one to year two, and he is hoping Keshawn Martin becomes a more consistent playmaker next season.

We already have too many young wide receivers on our roster. I know it's unfortunate DeVier Posey is injured at the moment, but I'd rather give Lestar Jean or Jeff Maehl a good and hard look going into next season.

If I were the Texans GM (and I know many of us would love to trade jobs with Rick Smith), I would release Kevin Walter and try to find the cap space to add a good and proven veteran wide receiver in free agency. I would even consider trading our 27th pick in round one if it could land us a good wide receiver via a trade.

I wouldn't even spend one draft pick on any wide receiver in this draft. In any round. Perhaps sign a couple undrafted rookie wideouts at best. To come to camp and compete with the other young guys we already have. And by that I'm only talking about 3-6 on the depth chart. We can probably keep a few on the practice squad.

We need immediate help right now at the number two wide receiver position to compliment Andre Johnson (while he's still a beast). If the Texans make the right moves this off-season we can definitely win the Super Bowl next year. But if they think they're going to land a difference maker at wide receiver with the 27th overall pick -- they're setting themselves up for disappointment yet again. We may as well just give the AFC to the Patriots right now...

See this is where we disagree, Rodgers/Hunter/Hopkins would be better than any WR on the roster excluding AJ.

Also you are trying to say that Posey/Matin/Jean are better than the trio I listed above?

Matin is a 4/5th WR/KR-PR on a good team. He has his place on the team. Posey probably wont play and Jean is very overrated on this MB. He's proven nothing and has trouble getting separation. I think the current WR corps is young, but there isn't a difference maker in the bunch.

I'm for drafting 2 WR's Hunter/Swope in rds 1-4. This will help provide competition within the WR group and the young guys can learn the tricks of the trade from AJ. When is the last time the Texans had a legitimate threat at WR2? It's time to fix that.

I see Hunter/Rodgers/Hopkins as potential difference makers next yr. You dont?

PS, as long as the Texans have Schaub and the Pats have Brady the Texans will always be at a disadvantage.

badboy
02-26-2013, 12:50 PM
If drafting two WRs, I'd like Rogers and Stedman Bailey for slot; despite his size he can play outside also.

steelbtexan
02-26-2013, 12:54 PM
If drafting two WRs, I'd like Rogers and Stedman Bailey for slot; despite his size he can play outside also.

This is also why I suggested drafting Swope.

If a WR is picked in rd 1 would you pick Bailey/Swope type in Rd 3?

TexansSeminole
02-26-2013, 01:14 PM
This is also why I suggested drafting Swope.

If a WR is picked in rd 1 would you pick Bailey/Swope type in Rd 3?

If it's Swope, I would. Low 3rd round seems like great value for Swope to me.

badboy
02-26-2013, 01:29 PM
This is also why I suggested drafting Swope.

If a WR is picked in rd 1 would you pick Bailey/Swope type in Rd 3?

Probably not, Rogers/B. Williams/David Amerson (S/CB)/OLB/ A J Klein

steelbtexan
02-26-2013, 01:33 PM
If it's Swope, I would. Low 3rd round seems like great value for Swope to me.

Agreed

Doubtful Swope will be there late in the 3rd. I could see Sherman/Dolphins picking Swope early in the 3rd.

beerlover
02-26-2013, 01:34 PM
I feel if Texans nail WR in first they will quickly move on to other pressing needs :)

steelbtexan
02-26-2013, 01:36 PM
Probably not, Rogers/B. Williams/David Amerson (S/CB)/OLB/ A J Klein

You're that high on A.J. Klein? Me too, How high do you think Klien goes? Comp 3rd IMHO

I do like Jake Knott in the 4-5th too.

badboy
02-26-2013, 01:41 PM
You're that high on A.J. Klein? Me too, How high do you think Klien goes? Comp 3rd IMHO

I do like Jake Knott in the 4-5th too.Followed Klein all year but kept putting others before him. Hard to ignore his production; he's rated 5th
round #166 but should be there in our 4th. Excellent value and possible starter. OLB is what is giving me trouble

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 05:46 PM
PS, as long as the Texans have Schaub and the Pats have Brady the Texans will always be at a disadvantage.

I think once our defense get over the man-crush they have on Brady, we'll be alright.

drs23
02-26-2013, 08:55 PM
See this is where we disagree, Rodgers/Hunter/Hopkins would be better than any WR on the roster excluding AJ.

Also you are trying to say that Posey/Matin/Jean are better than the trio I listed above?

Matin is a 4/5th WR/KR-PR on a good team. He has his place on the team. Posey probably wont play and Jean is very overrated on this MB. He's proven nothing and has trouble getting separation. I think the current WR corps is young, but there isn't a difference maker in the bunch.

I'm for drafting 2 WR's Hunter/Swope in rds 1-4. This will help provide competition within the WR group and the young guys can learn the tricks of the trade from AJ. When is the last time the Texans had a legitimate threat at WR2? It's time to fix that.

I see Hunter/Rodgers/Hopkins as potential difference makers next yr. You don't?

PS, as long as the Texans have Schaub and the Pats have Brady the Texans will always be at a disadvantage.

I like the bolded above. But I really like the Hopkins part, 4.5 or not. Maybe that's just me but he sure looks like a play maker kinda guy to me. I'd not be irate over either one of the other choices but I don't think Hunter will be there and I think Rodgers will scare Rick & Co. away. I really like Hopkins but if the regime drops their standards just a little, Rodgers would perhaps be an upgrade. Swope, to me, sounds like a no brainer but really doubt he'll be there in the 3rd like I've heard bandied about.

Would you be be cool with that?

P.S. I agree with your stance on QBs.

Texan_Bill
02-26-2013, 09:24 PM
I like the bolded above. But I really like the Hopkins part, 4.5 or not. Maybe that's just me but he sure looks like a play maker kinda guy to me. I'd not be irate over either one of the other choices but I don't think Hunter will be there and I think Rodgers will scare Rick & Co. away. I really like Hopkins but if the regime drops their standards just a little, Rodgers would perhaps be an upgrade. Swope, to me, sounds like a no brainer but really doubt he'll be there in the 3rd like I've heard bandied about.

Would you be be cool with that?

P.S. I agree with your stance on QBs.

Shave your beard, hippy!! :kitten:

drs23
02-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Shave your beard, hippy!! :kitten:

Prolly not gonna happen any time soon young man. :D

steelbtexan
02-27-2013, 12:23 AM
I like the bolded above. But I really like the Hopkins part, 4.5 or not. Maybe that's just me but he sure looks like a play maker kinda guy to me. I'd not be irate over either one of the other choices but I don't think Hunter will be there and I think Rodgers will scare Rick & Co. away. I really like Hopkins but if the regime drops their standards just a little, Rodgers would perhaps be an upgrade. Swope, to me, sounds like a no brainer but really doubt he'll be there in the 3rd like I've heard bandied about.

Would you be be cool with that?

P.S. I agree with your stance on QBs.

I like Rodgers more than Hunter. But there's no Bob allows Rodgers to be picked. Hopkins would be 1.C for me. But All of the WR's will probably end up being great players.

Hopkins doesn't have as much potential to be a differencemaker long term. But Hopkins is more day 1 ready to be a contributor than Hunter. Rodgers is the best of both worlds talent wise. IMHO

Wolf6151
02-27-2013, 01:25 AM
I like Rodgers more than Hunter. But there's no Bob allows Rodgers to be picked. Hopkins would be 1.C for me. But All of the WR's will probably end up being great players.

Hopkins doesn't have as much potential to be a differencemaker long term. But Hopkins is more day 1 ready to be a contributor than Hunter. Rodgers is the best of both worlds talent wise. IMHO

I agree Rodgers is a very good WR, but I put him on a par with Hopkins and Hunter. It's also very doubtful that the Texans would draft a pothead that can't learn from his mistakes. That leaves us with either Hopkins, more pro ready right now but will probably never be a true #1 WR, or Hunter, who needs to learn more routes and has future #1 WR potential and has far more future upside. It's decisions like that when I'm glad that I'm only an internet GM with no consequences to my decisions. I really like them both but once in a while you have to swing for the fences and go for that homerun, I'd take Hunter at #27 and put him on an in depth learning process all summer long.

steelbtexan
02-27-2013, 11:39 AM
I agree Rodgers is a very good WR, but I put him on a par with Hopkins and Hunter. It's also very doubtful that the Texans would draft a pothead that can't learn from his mistakes. That leaves us with either Hopkins, more pro ready right now but will probably never be a true #1 WR, or Hunter, who needs to learn more routes and has future #1 WR potential and has far more future upside. It's decisions like that when I'm glad that I'm only an internet GM with no consequences to my decisions. I really like them both but once in a while you have to swing for the fences and go for that homerun, I'd take Hunter at #27 and put him on an in depth learning process all summer long.

Hunter is my 4th ranked WR, Rodgers/Patterson/Austin.

since Rodgers wont be picked and Patterson/Austin will be off the board by 27, Hunter is worth the risk. Hopkins is rated 5 on my WR board.

badboy
02-27-2013, 11:47 AM
I agree Rodgers is a very good WR, but I put him on a par with Hopkins and Hunter. It's also very doubtful that the Texans would draft a pothead that can't learn from his mistakes. That leaves us with either Hopkins, more pro ready right now but will probably never be a true #1 WR, or Hunter, who needs to learn more routes and has future #1 WR potential and has far more future upside. It's decisions like that when I'm glad that I'm only an internet GM with no consequences to my decisions. I really like them both but once in a while you have to swing for the fences and go for that homerun, I'd take Hunter at #27 and put him on an in depth learning process all summer long.If Rogers passed 10 drug screens at Tech would you not agree he might have learned from being removed from Vols roster?

Insideop
02-27-2013, 12:28 PM
See this is where we disagree, Rodgers/Hunter/Hopkins would be better than any WR on the roster excluding AJ.

Also you are trying to say that Posey/Matin/Jean are better than the trio I listed above?

Matin is a 4/5th WR/KR-PR on a good team. He has his place on the team. Posey probably wont play and Jean is very overrated on this MB. He's proven nothing and has trouble getting separation. I think the current WR corps is young, but there isn't a difference maker in the bunch.

I'm for drafting 2 WR's Hunter/Swope in rds 1-4. This will help provide competition within the WR group and the young guys can learn the tricks of the trade from AJ. When is the last time the Texans had a legitimate threat at WR2? It's time to fix that.

I see Hunter/Rodgers/Hopkins as potential difference makers next yr. You dont?

PS, as long as the Texans have Schaub and the Pats have Brady the Texans will always be at a disadvantage.

I doubt the Texans will draft 2 more WR's this year. Maybe if they've given up on Jean and know Posey will not be coming back, but it's more likely they go with 1 WR in the 1st or 2nd round, then move on to other needs. Besides, after the Combine Swope had, he may not be there for the Texans in the 2nd round, let alone the 4th. That 4.34 for a "white boy" is sick, regardless of his hand size (8 1/2"). He was one of the players that absolutely "blew up" the Combine and there is a lot of talk about him moving up the draft boards.