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Daravenator
02-05-2013, 09:12 AM
I realize most, if not all, Houston Texans fans soured on Jacoby Jones, especially after he muffed the punt in the AFC Divisional Playoff game in Baltimore last year. Although he showed signs of greatness, he seemed to have trouble with drops while playing for the Texans.

So he was released, the Ravens signed him, and he went on to the Pro Bowl, caught a huge pass to tie the game against the Broncos in the AFC Divisional Playoff game, and made a comeback 56 yard catch for a TD and returned a second half-opening kickoff for a record 109 yards in the Super Bowl.

So, do you think he simply had "issues" while playing for the Texans, or was he simply not coached properly? It seems awfully odd that a player would have such a dramatic fall and rise so quickly in the span of one season. Had he remained a Texan, do you think he would have accomplished what he did this year, or would he have been a bust?

HOU-TEX
02-05-2013, 09:16 AM
Wrong forum

nero THE zero
02-05-2013, 09:21 AM
I think it is a mix of things. He wasn't used properly, as evidenced by his lack of use in kickoffs. The coaches always maintained that his skill set was best used in punt returns but not in kickoffs.

His skills set was also a bad mix with his QB. With Flacco he is able to outrun a defense, but Schaub has never been able to rocket a deep ball to him like Flacco.

He also had a lot of maturity issues here in Houston. I think Baltimore is benefiting some from Kubiak's mentoring of Jacoby. But, once he muffed that punt in Baltimore his time in Houston was done.

I wish him nothing but the best and think he should have been the SB MVP.

Daravenator
02-05-2013, 09:23 AM
I don't think it is the wrong forum. JJ was drafted by the Texans, so I am wondering if you believe he didn't pan out in Houston moreso due to his own failures, or was the blame more on Kubiak and the ST coach?

I have heard that Kubiak was hard on Jones, but I do not know that for a fact. It just seems surprising that a player who is released goes on to such a dramatic turn-around in one season.

Do you wish he would have remained a Texan?

Daravenator
02-05-2013, 09:24 AM
I think it is a mix of things. He wasn't used properly, as evidenced by his lack of use in kickoffs. The coaches always maintained that his skill set was best used in punt returns but not in kickoffs.

His skills set was also a bad mix with his QB. With Flacco he is able to outrun a defense, but Schaub has never been able to rocket a deep ball to him like Flacco.

He also had a lot of maturity issues here in Houston. I think Baltimore is benefiting some from Kubiak's mentoring of Jacoby. But, once he muffed that punt in Baltimore his time in Houston was done.

I wish him nothing but the best and think he should have been the SB MVP.

Thanks for a well-written and thought-out reply.

Goodwrench3
02-05-2013, 09:27 AM
Wrong forum²

HOU-TEX
02-05-2013, 09:30 AM
No, I do not think we should've kept him. The dude was very immature when we drafted him. Kubiak and Co got him right, but was the king of bumble. We all know how much Kubiak dislikes drops and fumbles. It was time for him to go. Plus, he would've never been right in the head again due to the fans verbal assault. Dude had to quit Twitter. lol

He's got the smallest hands I've ever seen as a WR, so he will drop a lot of balls.

Wrong forum because he's no longer a Texan

Playoffs
02-05-2013, 09:35 AM
Wrong forum

Yep.

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/forum/6-ravens-talk/

Señor Stan
02-05-2013, 09:43 AM
not just the football related issues but...

falling asleep drunk at a red light
missing a team plane.

Dude was a knucklehead here.

Getting cut was probably the wake up call he needed to start taking football seriously.

beerlover
02-05-2013, 09:43 AM
Jacoby & Holliday are proof, Texans coaching staff headed by Kubiak are uptight & don't connect with a certain type of player (character) who are typical NFL playmakers, from a positional viewpoint historically its always been Texan returners. Which has been coached since Texan inception by Joe Marciano. It should be a no brainer to fire him, but I have this feeling that would be using him as a scapegoat, that the problem is deeper than that. From a draft viewpoint I was in favor of both, talent & playmaker was self evident, at least Rick Smith recognized it & drafted them to help the Texan coaches. How long will HE continue to put up with his own people misuse, & discard talented players who do fit needs for excellent value :hankpalm:

ThaShark316
02-05-2013, 09:53 AM
Happy for the guy, because people need change. He needed to find "greener pastures", if you will.

I don't know if he's doing THIS in Houston. Elsewhere (especially after getting RELEASED), he needed to show folks he wasn't done or he would be done. NFL does indeed stand for "Not For Long", and if he were to have the same issues he did in Houston, he'd be cut again; possibly out of the NFL altogether.

He's a new player, basically. No more acting a damn fool until it's time to act a damn fool. Jacoby Jones did something great, and him leaving Houston, TX was the best possible thing for him as a player, and maybe even as a man; made him a little more mature.

Corrosion
02-05-2013, 10:10 AM
I realize most, if not all, Houston Texans fans soured on Jacoby Jones, especially after he muffed the punt in the AFC Divisional Playoff game in Baltimore last year. Although he showed signs of greatness, he seemed to have trouble with drops while playing for the Texans.

So he was released, the Ravens signed him, and he went on to the Pro Bowl, caught a huge pass to tie the game against the Broncos in the AFC Divisional Playoff game, and made a comeback 56 yard catch for a TD and returned a second half-opening kickoff for a record 109 yards in the Super Bowl.

So, do you think he simply had "issues" while playing for the Texans, or was he simply not coached properly? It seems awfully odd that a player would have such a dramatic fall and rise so quickly in the span of one season. Had he remained a Texan, do you think he would have accomplished what he did this year, or would he have been a bust?

I think he was and still is a big play or a mistake waiting to happen. He muffed a punt in the Superbowl ..... or does everyone forget that because of the two TD's ?! He's boom or bust.


As for why he didnt stick here .... you need look no further than the boneheaded decision he made in the divisional round against your Ravens.

His lack of development as a reciever here was more due to the fact that he just didnt grasp the complexities of the offense. He was asked to do more than he was capable of ... In Baltimore his job is to run past the coverage and try to catch the ball , he's not expected to run sophisticated routes , that and a big armed QB suited him to a tee.

Hope he doesnt fall asleep drunk in his car at an intersection again or have any other off the field mishaps ....


Im glad the change of scenery worked out for him .... and hope his next contract sucks up a whole lotta Baltimore's cap space. :corrosion:


Boom or bust.

False Start
02-05-2013, 10:13 AM
I'll keep it short and simple. I always have, and always will despise him. (wrong forum) ;)

Corrosion
02-05-2013, 10:15 AM
Jacoby & Holliday are proof, Texans coaching staff headed by Kubiak are uptight & don't connect with a certain type of player (character) who are typical NFL playmakers, from a positional viewpoint historically its always been Texan returners. Which has been coached since Texan inception by Joe Marciano. It should be a no brainer to fire him, but I have this feeling that would be using him as a scapegoat, that the problem is deeper than that. From a draft viewpoint I was in favor of both, talent & playmaker was self evident, at least Rick Smith recognized it & drafted them to help the Texan coaches. How long will HE continue to put up with his own people misuse, & discard talented players who do fit needs for excellent value :hankpalm:

You werent singing that tune when this happened ....

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif


We all pretty much were in agreement that he was done for in Houston after that colossal mistake.


Boom or Bust.

GP
02-05-2013, 10:29 AM
I think it is a mix of things. He wasn't used properly, as evidenced by his lack of use in kickoffs. The coaches always maintained that his skill set was best used in punt returns but not in kickoffs.

His skills set was also a bad mix with his QB. With Flacco he is able to outrun a defense, but Schaub has never been able to rocket a deep ball to him like Flacco.

He also had a lot of maturity issues here in Houston. I think Baltimore is benefiting some from Kubiak's mentoring of Jacoby. But, once he muffed that punt in Baltimore his time in Houston was done.

I wish him nothing but the best and think he should have been the SB MVP.

I agree with this.

My overriding theory is that this is NOT a good reflection upon Kubiak as a leader and mentor and coach of players. He gives a lot of loyalty to players, but very little real "accountability," and with the way this franchise randomly rewards failure for some players (Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Matt Schaub, etc.) yet randomly cuts that same caliber of player (Jacoby Jones, Eric Winston, etc.) it probably isn't the best way to try and build up a locker room's belief in the team's direction.

This was not a fluke. Jacoby just happens to be a player who more than likely felt like his head coach was always waiting for him to screw up (Gary did this same damn thing to Trindon Holliday, btw). I mean, the head coach doesn't even watch game-deciding field goal attempts. Why? Because he doesn't think we're going to win and he doesn't want to face the disappointment of watching the kick go wide left or wide right. THAT, my friends, although some say it's not a big factor in Gary's skill/talent as a HC, it is a pretty accurate "marker" for me. He thinks the worst instead of the best.

For Gary, if the game came down to a game-deciding FG attempt....well, for Gary it means his guys just didn't execute on Sunday like they had all week in practice leading up to the game. He'll find ways to mentor and coach and build 'em up in the next week's practice.

Gary's system is very devoid of any real, tangible "game day" feeling to it. It's all automated. Do this, like we practiced, and it will work. We ran this a hundred times in practice, running our routes down to the very inch on the field where we were supposed to make the cut...so therefore they can't stop us when we're on our game on Sundays. We are good guys. Our fans love us. Our owner loves us. Our head coach is fanatical and cult-like in his defense of us if things go wrong. Our head coach will stand at a podium and say "It's on me, as a head coach, I have to get them in better position."

All these things lead to what I think is really a sham of a football program when it all gets boiled down to its base element. Boil the water and see what remains. What I see, as proven by Jacoby Jones in the post-season games versus Denver and in the Super Bowl versus 49ers, is that Gary Kubiak is not nearly the adaptive, creative guy some people think he is today.

Which means "What if the players, across the board, have caught onto this?" At some point this season, and I think it was after the two OT games we won, the locker room fell flat for Gary. It was almost like they were tired of winning. But hey, Gary will have them ready "next time." See a pattern?

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 10:58 AM
I'll keep it short and simple. I always have, and always will despise him. (wrong forum) ;)

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif



Duck Judas Jones!

My sincerest hope is that the next time the Carrion...excuse me Ravens play the Texans his former team mates light his 3itch ass up like a Christmas tree every time he FANTASIZES about TOUCHING the football! He can shove THIS :trophy: and the ring he sold his former team out for up his @$$ and SPIN on it at 3500 RPM. May MANY cracked ribs and concussions be in his future.

Big Lou
02-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Thoughts. Well he's been winning playoff games for the Ravens for two years now, so great job Jacoby.

Ten bucks says we see his SB Ring on an episode of Pawn Stars within two years, because he hawked it.

jaayteetx
02-05-2013, 11:48 AM
Jacoby needed to grow up and maybe he did in Baltimore, we'll see.

eriadoc
02-05-2013, 11:56 AM
A couple things in reply:

1.) Jacoby Jones got himself out of Houston. He never learned to secure the ball the entire time he was here. He bobbled and/or fumbled the ball on special teams so often that no one felt comfortable with him back there. The fateful fumble in the playoff game last year was just the logical conclusion to a series of indicators. Jacoby Jones is no victim and any attempt to paint him as such should be categorically rejected. He did it to himself (and us).

2.) Jacoby Jones had a chance to shine as the #1 WR when AJ went down. In his first game as the #1 WR, against OAK, he was targeted 11 times and managed to pull one in. Many players never get one chance in the NFL. Those that fail on that one chance don't often get a second chance, unless they're a high round draft pick. Kubiak came back to JJ again and again and again. Hell, in the Super Bowl, he showed that his hands still aren't good when he managed to pull that one catch in off his face.

Jacoby Jones is in BAL because he blew it in Houston, not because Houston abandoned him. Houston took a chance on him, gave him multiple opportunities, and finally parted ways only when he finally proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that he couldn't be trusted.

JCTexan
02-05-2013, 12:11 PM
I don't think it is the wrong forum. JJ was drafted by the Texans, so I am wondering if you believe he didn't pan out in Houston moreso due to his own failures, or was the blame more on Kubiak and the ST coach?

I have heard that Kubiak was hard on Jones, but I do not know that for a fact. It just seems surprising that a player who is released goes on to such a dramatic turn-around in one season.

Do you wish he would have remained a Texan?

I don't know if I should take this post seriously. Jacoby Jones' statistics were actually down in practically every category this year. He had his worst year as a WR since 2008. The only area he did better as a Raven was kick returner and Houston didn't use him at all in that capacity last year.

Jacoby Jones is the player he was last year for the Texans. Nothing at all changed (imo). He is still only a #3 WR who has dangerous speed and can make a game-changing play (either bad or good for his team). Jacoby Jones is a player I always cringed when he caught a punt. Although he didn't make as many mistakes this year as a Raven, he is still that player. I do not miss him being in a Texans uniform at all.

Brisco_County
02-05-2013, 12:18 PM
A friend of mine was at a bar in Conroe a couple of years ago. There were flyers at each urinal advertising the club's upcoming hip hop bash, and it claimed, "Jacoby Jones parties here!" That's what I think of every time I see Jacoby.

nero THE zero
02-05-2013, 12:28 PM
I have heard that Kubiak was hard on Jones, but I do not know that for a fact. It just seems surprising that a player who is released goes on to such a dramatic turn-around in one season.


I don't think the "turnaround" was dramatic. In fact, I would argue that there was no "turnaround."

His stats from the past 4 years:

2009 HOU 27 REC 437 YDS 6 TD
2010 HOU 51 REC 562 YDS 3 TD
2011 HOU 31 REC 512 YDS 2 TD
2012 BAL 30 REC 406 YDS 1 TD

sandman
02-05-2013, 01:24 PM
He statistically had a worse year as a receiver and punt returner than last year with the Texans. The difference was in kick returns and three TD plays in the playoffs.

He caught a total of three passes in four playoff games outside of those two blown-coverage TD bombs. Take away the one return TD, and he averaged less than 20 yards a return.

Jacoby is still the player that he was when he was with the Texans. He is either going to hit a home run or strike out.

Bulls on Parade
02-05-2013, 01:27 PM
I don't think the "turnaround" was dramatic. In fact, I would argue that there was no "turnaround."

His stats from the past 4 years:

2009 HOU 27 REC 437 YDS 6 TD
2010 HOU 51 REC 562 YDS 3 TD
2011 HOU 31 REC 512 YDS 2 TD
2012 BAL 30 REC 406 YDS 1 TD
Exactly right. And he also muffed a couple in the Super Bowl but they were casual drops that he instantly recovered. It was nice to see him play well and score a couple of Touchdowns in the Super Bowl. He played really well in the playoffs as did Joe Flacco. Nothing great in the regular season though. Just goes to show you, all it takes is playing your best football in the playoffs. Which is what the Texans need to do next year.

Steal Your Face
02-05-2013, 02:06 PM
All of that about Jacoby Jones being the same player as before and not being professional enough to justify the faith Kubiak had in him is true. But .... Jacoby Jones > Keyshawn Martin + Devier Posey + Lestar Jean

rolyat93
02-05-2013, 02:15 PM
Jacoby played a big part in the Ravens success 2 years in a row, good for him.

Thorn
02-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Jacoby Jones needed to go, he did, and he became better for it. Big deal, this kind of stuff happens all the time in pro sports. However, as far as how I personally feel about Jacoby Jones, he can kiss my damn ass. I hope we lights out nail him in our next Raven game.

htownfan32
02-05-2013, 02:38 PM
Jacoby Jones > DeVier Posey right now.

Give Posey a healthy recovery and two years. I see him as a solid number two for us. I wasn't high on him beginning the year but the man was catching up to speed.

sandman
02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
Ummm, no ...

He doesn't own any of them as a receiver, and only on special teams because ours is horrible in all aspects.

If Martin was on the Ravens he would probably be scoring TD's consistently as well on returns.

True. A WR who in six years surpassed 30 receptions only once doesn't own anyone.

And we shouldn't look at the production he gave Baltimore this season, we should look at the production that he gave the Texans last year and how his replacements did:

JJ - 31 receptions and 1 TD
Posey, Jean and Martin - 26 receptions and 2 TD

JJ - No kickoff returns

JJ - 10.6 average, long of 79, 1 TD
Martin - 12.1 average, long of 71, no TD

After seeing that his actual production for THIS team was easily replaced, you look at how impactful his production was for his new team:

30 receptions made him the #5 receiver
9.2 yards per punt return was good for 15th in the NFL
30.7 yards per kickoff return was good for 1st in the NFL

He made his bones on kickoffs. Everything else he was pedestrian. To your point, it speaks more to the overall Ravens ST play than anything else.

Steal Your Face
02-05-2013, 03:11 PM
True. A WR who in six years surpassed 30 receptions only once doesn't own anyone.

And we shouldn't look at the production he gave Baltimore this season, we should look at the production that he gave the Texans last year and how his replacements did:

JJ - 31 receptions and 1 TD
Posey, Jean and Martin - 26 receptions and 2 TD

JJ - No kickoff returns

JJ - 10.6 average, long of 79, 1 TD
Martin - 12.1 average, long of 71, no TD

After seeing that his actual production for THIS team was easily replaced, you look at how impactful his production was for his new team:

30 receptions made him the #5 receiver
9.2 yards per punt return was good for 15th in the NFL
30.7 yards per kickoff return was good for 1st in the NFL

He made his bones on kickoffs. Everything else he was pedestrian. To your point, it speaks more to the overall Ravens ST play than anything else.

But IMO Jacoby Jones is not a player that you really micro-analyze total numbers for. He's a lightning strike, big play, big situation guy. He did not have much of a regular season but he came up big in some big situations for the Ravens. We could have used some of that at crunch time.

I'm not lamenting the loss of Jones (good riddance for all I care) ... it's more like I am disappointed in:

1) Not using a #1 or #2 on a better and more reliable WR,
2) The lack of effective use of Martin, Posey and Jean by the Texans' brain trust,
3) The appearance that as raw and erratic as Jones was, Martin, Posey and Jean appear to be even more raw and erratic.

The Texans are (and were at this time last season) in win NOW mode with a window that may not be open very long. I would have like to see a more significant upgrade after we cut Jones.

2012Champs
02-05-2013, 03:31 PM
I don't think the "turnaround" was dramatic. In fact, I would argue that there was no "turnaround."

His stats from the past 4 years:

2009 HOU 27 REC 437 YDS 6 TD
2010 HOU 51 REC 562 YDS 3 TD
2011 HOU 31 REC 512 YDS 2 TD
2012 BAL 30 REC 406 YDS 1 TD




I think he was or was expected to take at least the #2 spot here and was our #1 or should have been when AJ went down. Take that into context with the fact that he was #3 in Balt and I say even with flat stats it was a pickup for him.


JJ had to go because he was too expense for what he gave us. If he gave us what he gave Balt maybe we find a way to pay him 3mm for this past season.


For those who still point to JJ as the reason we were bounced out of the playoffs last year, get over it. JJ ,Yates and our kicker are the reason we lost not a single person

76Texan
02-05-2013, 03:40 PM
But IMO Jacoby Jones is not a player that you really micro-analyze total numbers for. He's a lightning strike, big play, big situation guy. He did not have much of a regular season but he came up big in some big situations for the Ravens. We could have used some of that at crunch time.

I'm not lamenting the loss of Jones (good riddance for all I care) ... it's more like I am disappointed in:

1) Not using a #1 or #2 on a better and more reliable WR,
2) The lack of effective use of Martin, Posey and Jean by the Texans' brain trust,
3) The appearance that as raw and erratic as Jones was, Martin, Posey and Jean appear to be even more raw and erratic.

The Texans are (and were at this time last season) in win NOW mode with a window that may not be open very long. I would have like to see a more significant upgrade after we cut Jones.

Sometimes things work out in a weird way.

All the receivers drafted ahead of Posey (except one) were on teams that didn't make the play-offs.

The exception was AJ Jenkins who was drafted in the first round by the Niners.
Some of us, especially myself, scratched our head about this pick.
Jenkins was targeted once (1) the entire season, and he dropped the pass.

Jackie Chiles
02-05-2013, 03:56 PM
I think my views on on are a bit different than most on here, I feel like the potential reward on his returns outweighed the risk but he just wasn't worth a crap as a wideout. I actually thought he was over his punt return woes before that epic muff and I was convinced we were still going to win that game after giving up a TD shortly afterward. I was disappointed when we gave him that sizable contract and just because we have so far failed to find a better replacement WR doesn't make me miss him.

The only caveat I would add is he was not really returning kicks for us and it seems to me (and anyone who watched this team for the last few years) we have some serious problems with our special teams in that regard. No reason that Jacoby and Trindon Holiday should have that kind of success after we release them. Coaching/blocking is definitely lacking.

keyser
02-05-2013, 03:57 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif


Not trying to readjudicate old stuff (and I'd like to have just forgotten that play), but I noticed something this time that I've never noticed before - my focus has always been on the drop rather than the aftermath. Is it legal for #29 to tackle JJ from behind after he muffs the punt? I honestly don't know how the rules apply at that point, but it just seems weird to me that someone is allowed to wrap someone up from behind and takle them - I didn't know that that was allowed by any player at any point (but maybe it is in this situation)? I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it, and am curious if that was legal...

Jackie Chiles
02-05-2013, 03:59 PM
Not trying to readjudicate old stuff (and I'd like to have just forgotten that play), but I noticed something this time that I've never noticed before - my focus has always been on the drop rather than the aftermath. Is it legal for #29 to tackle JJ from behind after he muffs the punt? I honestly don't know how the rules apply at that point, but it just seems weird to me that someone is allowed to wrap someone up from behind and takle them - I didn't know that that was allowed by any player at any point (but maybe it is in this situation)? I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it, and am curious if that was legal...

Normally no, it would not be legal. Jacoby actually got bailed out, and I mean BAILED out, on a muff against Tennessee because the guy tackled him immediately after the muff which technically interfered with his ability to field the ball. Have to wait for the muff to hit the ground before you make contact with the player or the ball. 15 yards tacked on. Luckiest break ever. Difference is this ball had already bounced. You can't tell from that gif though.

Jules Winnfield
02-05-2013, 04:05 PM
i never had a problem with jacoby jones.

look how great he looks when he has a competent special teams coach and players and more importantly when he has a competent quarterback who has an arm that can get him the ball.

the year he muffed that punt in bmore, everybody was quick to blame jacoby for that lose even though that had no effect on the outcome of the game. everybody wanted a scapegoat and it was jacoby even though the real person who lost that game was gary kubiak who somehow inexplicably started acting like tj yates was aaron rodgers and put the game on the rookie's shoulder instead of arian foster who was killing it that day. But since gary became an offensive guru and great coach that year when he led the texans to its first division crown after peyton broke his neck even though it was wades defense that saved the year.

Look how great jacoby looks now with a great QB. WE all knew the problem was matt schaub and gary kubiak and this year once again proved that.

Im so happy for jacoby who got unfairly blamed for that playoff game.

He was proven right and all the delusional schaub and kubiak zealots got proven wrong but somehow they've retreated to pretending like they didnt like kubiak and schaub all along.

You know who you are and you're not fooling anybody.

ThaShark316
02-05-2013, 04:16 PM
i never had a problem with jacoby jones.

look how great he looks when he has a competent special teams coach and players and more importantly when he has a competent quarterback who has an arm that can get him the ball.

the year he muffed that punt in bmore, everybody was quick to blame jacoby for that lose even though that had no effect on the outcome of the game. everybody wanted a scapegoat and it was jacoby even though the real person who lost that game was gary kubiak who somehow inexplicably started acting like tj yates was aaron rodgers and put the game on the rookie's shoulder instead of arian foster who was killing it that day. But since gary became an offensive guru and great coach that year when he led the texans to its first division crown after peyton broke his neck even though it was wades defense that saved the year.

Look how great jacoby looks now with a great QB. WE all knew the problem was matt schaub and gary kubiak and this year once again proved that.

Im so happy for jacoby who got unfairly blamed for that playoff game.

He was proven right and all the delusional schaub and kubiak zealots got proven wrong but somehow they've retreated to pretending like they didnt like kubiak and schaub all along.

You know who you are and you're not fooling anybody.

Sadly, the Ravens D wised up. Longest run for Arian, IIRC, was 7 yards in the second half.

Flacco's good, not great; but to each their own. Better than Schaub doesn't = Great QB.

And lastly, that Colts team last year, with or without Manning, was in ****in' trouble. That roster was trash the last 2 seasons.

DBCooper
02-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Ahhhhh Jacoby.

Making big plays for the Ravens for 2 years now!

We all held hope for Jacoby, he just never did much here.

And for a handful of big plays this year, he really hasn't done much as a Raven.

Ya'll will be asking for his head before long.

2012Champs
02-05-2013, 04:36 PM
Not trying to readjudicate old stuff (and I'd like to have just forgotten that play), but I noticed something this time that I've never noticed before - my focus has always been on the drop rather than the aftermath. Is it legal for #29 to tackle JJ from behind after he muffs the punt? I honestly don't know how the rules apply at that point, but it just seems weird to me that someone is allowed to wrap someone up from behind and takle them - I didn't know that that was allowed by any player at any point (but maybe it is in this situation)? I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I missed it, and am curious if that was legal...



It is not against the rules to make that tackle

2012Champs
02-05-2013, 04:37 PM
Normally no, it would not be legal. Jacoby actually got bailed out, and I mean BAILED out, on a muff against Tennessee because the guy tackled him immediately after the muff which technically interfered with his ability to field the ball. Have to wait for the muff to hit the ground before you make contact with the player or the ball. 15 yards tacked on. Luckiest break ever. Difference is this ball had already bounced. You can't tell from that gif though.




Im not sure that makes sense. I could in theory bobble the ball all the way to the endzone. I didnt think the rule had a hit the ground first clause maybe I will look it up if I have time

Jackie Chiles
02-05-2013, 04:41 PM
Im not sure that makes sense. I could in theory bobble the ball all the way to the endzone. I didnt think the rule had a hit the ground first clause maybe I will look it up if I have time

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/8/10/1616768/2010-nfl-rule-changes-fair-catch

GP
02-05-2013, 05:07 PM
He statistically has a Super Bowl ring coming his way, so yeah...don't really care what the stats say.

He made two TDs in the Super Bowl, one of which was a Super Bowl record and the other was a pass play where he gets up and outruns a guy who was already on his feet and ahead of him by 5 yards.

But feel free to keep the sunshine rays pointed our way.

keyser
02-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Normally no, it would not be legal. Jacoby actually got bailed out, and I mean BAILED out, on a muff against Tennessee because the guy tackled him immediately after the muff which technically interfered with his ability to field the ball. Have to wait for the muff to hit the ground before you make contact with the player or the ball. 15 yards tacked on. Luckiest break ever. Difference is this ball had already bounced. You can't tell from that gif though.

OK, based on the other link, assuming Jacoby had called for a fair catch (can't see whether or not he did in the clip), he was supposed to not have been hit until the ball hit the ground. So, that's one thing that could have been called here but wasn't.

But, the bigger question is - when is it OK to tackle someone (who doesn't have the ball) from behind? I thought this would be, at least, an illegal block in the back or holding or something (and if it were, I'm not sure how the rules would say whose ball it was). Is it OK during a fumble? Was this considered a fumble when the ball hit the ground? Is it only in this one situation that these tackles are legal, or are there others? I mean, this guy wraps Jacoby up from behind and then tackles him so that he has no chance to recover the ball. It seems kind of weird that when the ball is fumbled, suddenly all the normal rules are out the door and anything goes. I'm pretty sure players can't do that at any other point in the game.

I'm really not trying to be an apologist for Jacoby here (it's his fault for not making that catch). I think it was time for him to go in Houston, though I don't have the level of negative feelings for him that some others around here do. But, I am curious about the rules, since this looks different from what I'm used to seeing.

JCTexan
02-05-2013, 05:18 PM
He statistically has a Super Bowl ring coming his way, so yeah...don't really care what the stats say.

He made two TDs in the Super Bowl, one of which was a Super Bowl record and the other was a pass play where he gets up and outruns a guy who was already on his feet and ahead of him by 5 yards.

But feel free to keep the sunshine rays pointed our way.

People somehow think he turned a corner this year, when in fact he didn't. His statistics were down in all WR categories. He didn't make a mental mistake in the playoffs and caught three touchdowns but he didn't turn a corner. He was the same exact player this year for the Ravens as he was with the Texans. Jacoby is a big risk, big reward player. The Texans got the risk last year, while the Ravens were rewarded this year.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 05:22 PM
OK, based on the other link, assuming Jacoby had called for a fair catch (can't see whether or not he did in the clip), he was supposed to not have been hit until the ball hit the ground. So, that's one thing that could have been called here but wasn't.

But, the bigger question is - when is it OK to tackle someone (who doesn't have the ball) from behind? I thought this would be, at least, an illegal block in the back or holding or something (and if it were, I'm not sure how the rules would say whose ball it was). Is it OK during a fumble? Was this considered a fumble when the ball hit the ground? Is it only in this one situation that these tackles are legal, or are there others? I mean, this guy wraps Jacoby up from behind and then tackles him so that he has no chance to recover the ball. It seems kind of weird that when the ball is fumbled, suddenly all the normal rules are out the door and anything goes. I'm pretty sure players can't do that at any other point in the game.

I'm really not trying to be an apologist for Jacoby here (it's his fault for not making that catch). I think it was time for him to go in Houston, though I don't have the level of negative feelings for him that some others around here do. But, I am curious about the rules, since this looks different from what I'm used to seeing.

I just rewatched the All-22 views, Jacoby never made a fair catch signal.

It was free-for-all.
The Ravens players can go after him at any time.
That was just dumb dumb dumb!

You can tackle a player from any side you want.

dream_team
02-05-2013, 06:40 PM
People somehow think he turned a corner this year, when in fact he didn't. His statistics were down in all WR categories. He didn't make a mental mistake in the playoffs and caught three touchdowns but he didn't turn a corner. He was the same exact player this year for the Ravens as he was with the Texans. Jacoby is a big risk, big reward player. The Texans got the risk last year, while the Ravens were rewarded this year.

Exactly... he's the same Jacoby when he was with the Texans. The only difference was the Ravens gave him a shot as the kick returner and he took advantage of it. He made most of his big plays this season as a KR. I'm not sure why he didn't return kicks as a Texan?

ThaShark316
02-05-2013, 06:58 PM
He statistically has a Super Bowl ring coming his way, so yeah...don't really care what the stats say.

He made two TDs in the Super Bowl, one of which was a Super Bowl record and the other was a pass play where he gets up and outruns a guy who was already on his feet and ahead of him by 5 yards.

But feel free to keep the sunshine rays pointed our way.

Come on, GP; just because no one agrees doesn't mean they are pumping sunshine. I get what you are saying. If you twist my arm enough, you could get me to agree along with you. However, that doesn't make them sunshine pumpers.

You want to win. We all do...

Ryan
02-05-2013, 07:14 PM
Interesting how the Ravens guy disappeared when we started proving his "dramatic turnaround" claim wrong. I think he is trying to irritate us really.

Texecutioner
02-05-2013, 08:11 PM
He statistically has a Super Bowl ring coming his way, so yeah...don't really care what the stats say.

He made two TDs in the Super Bowl, one of which was a Super Bowl record and the other was a pass play where he gets up and outruns a guy who was already on his feet and ahead of him by 5 yards.

But feel free to keep the sunshine rays pointed our way.

Do you ever stick to one point of view without it changing from game to game GP?

$3.5 million per year????

LMAO!

Wow. LOL. I love it when people think they can make three-day leftover scraps taste like gourmet food. Pretty dumb move, Ravens.

And that he signed with the team how baited him into coughing up the football in the playoff game just makes it all the more awesome.


All I remember seeing is Jacoby unable to jump high enough to catch a pass as well as not being able to dive low enough to catch a pass.

If he cuts on his route too early, the ball is over his head. We all have seen this. Jacoby leaping high and not able to even come close to the ball. it's because he went into his cut too soon when he should have taken one more step.

If he cuts too late, the ball ended up in the dirt. Why? Because he wasn't in the right spot at the right time.

Jacoby's route running, while he has had some people in the Texans organization stick up for him, is not good. It's inconsistent just like his hands and just like his punt fielding decision making.

Everything about him is inconsistent and that gets you in hot water in the NFL. He has the talent attributes teams want, but the inconsistency issue is what hurts him AND his team.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91976&highlight=Jacoby+Jones&page=3


You trashed Jacoby Jones left and right before. Hell, I even remember years ago how you trashed Kubiak for not playing him hardly enough and letting Walter stay as the #2 WR. Then after that season you were trashing Kubiak and Mcnair for resigning JJ and went on and on for what a mistake it was and how Kubiak was "way to trusting." From then on, you repeatedly trashed Jacoby Jones, and laughed your ass off at the Ravens pretty much all season.

Now you have the adacity to call out people for allegedly pumping sunshine, because they don't miss JJ one bit? Lol!! How about if you stop flip flopping on everything that has to do with the team in hind sight every other week with these knee jerk reactions? I'll bash Gary Kubiak for a lot of things, but anyone bashing him or Mcnair for how they let go of JJ is simply being full of it. JJ was crap here for years. He never owned up to either contract that he received. He was always a fumble waiting to happen. His little 400 yards or whatever he got this season was a downgrade even to what he was doing here. So what, he finally had a full season without muffing like 3 punts and giving the other team the ball??

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 08:32 PM
I trashed Jacoby Jones..

I argued that the Texans were playing a game with a rookie QB and really didn't need to play from behind.

***********

That said, the Texans took the opening kick-off and got a field goal...

Kicked off... and the defense stopped the Ravens.

#Beautiful

Ravens punt.

Jacoby craps the bed and all of the sudden the Ravens are up 7-3. Thanks man!!!!

EFF YOU Jacoby! We took a chance on you not only to be a return guy (which you did well, no complaints there), but also to be a #2 receiver w/AJ...

You had 5 or 6 years to work that out and he failed.

*************************

Congratulations man!!!!

You had a helluva good game (and should've been MVP in some circles)

*************************

Scenery changes matter. In Baltimore you're the returner, but also there, you are expected to be a 3rd or 4th receiving option.

The Texans wanted you to be a second and maybe, eventually be a #1

*************************

Bottom Line:

You are what you are Jacoby... On the edge of "Kinda Good"

Texecutioner
02-05-2013, 08:33 PM
OMG .. its my ex-wife ...

Please save your energy for a Chik-Fil-A picket line ...

Feel free to add to the discussion. :fingergun:


I'm sure the typical anti gay slurs you're known for will be greatly appreciated.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 08:36 PM
Feel free to add to the discussion. :fingergun:


I'm sure the typical anti gay slurs you're known for will be greatly appreciated.

I really, really wanna make a joke here, but with influx of newer members I won't. They wouldn't get my sense of humor.

Texecutioner
02-05-2013, 08:47 PM
I really, really wanna make a joke here, but with influx of newer members I won't. They wouldn't get my sense of humor.

The guy sinks himself all on his own with those types of replies. It's more amusing then anything. He already did it for you.

BullBlitz
02-05-2013, 08:56 PM
Thoughts. Well he's been winning playoff games for the Ravens for two years now, so great job Jacoby.

Ten bucks says we see his SB Ring on an episode of Pawn Stars within two years, because he hawked it.

As both teams are division winners, we will play the Ravens next year and hope Jacoby turns in some winning plays for the Ravens. I am so glad to see him, Leach and Pollard getting Rings.

ThaShark316
02-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Do you ever stick to one point of view without it changing from game to game GP?






http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91976&highlight=Jacoby+Jones&page=3


You trashed Jacoby Jones left and right before. Hell, I even remember years ago how you trashed Kubiak for not playing him hardly enough and letting Walter stay as the #2 WR. Then after that season you were trashing Kubiak and Mcnair for resigning JJ and went on and on for what a mistake it was and how Kubiak was "way to trusting." From then on, you repeatedly trashed Jacoby Jones, and laughed your ass off at the Ravens pretty much all season.

Now you have the adacity to call out people for allegedly pumping sunshine, because they don't miss JJ one bit? Lol!! How about if you stop flip flopping on everything that has to do with the team in hind sight every other week with these knee jerk reactions? I'll bash Gary Kubiak for a lot of things, but anyone bashing him or Mcnair for how they let go of JJ is simply being full of it. JJ was crap here for years. He never owned up to either contract that he received. He was always a fumble waiting to happen. His little 400 yards or whatever he got this season was a downgrade even to what he was doing here. So what, he finally had a full season without muffing like 3 punts and giving the other team the ball??

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/5943/chrispaulnoooo.png

ThaShark316
02-05-2013, 09:20 PM
Please take Robert Duvall off your avatar, it is an insult to him.

Yall cold BLOODED around here....damn. Lol.

Nawzer
02-05-2013, 09:41 PM
I said this in another thread about Jacoby and I guess I'll repeat the same thing here. I am of the opinion that the Texans made the right move by letting him go due to a couple of reasons. He's a great returner and we saw that during his tenure here as a Texans but his salary didn't justify keeping him solely as a kick returner. He is a poor receiver in terms of running routes in the middle of the field. He'll once in a while catch a deep pass and show his potential, but once again not justifiable for the kind of money he was going to make as a Texan. Also, we don't have a strong armed QB like Flacco to take advantage of Jacoby's speed. We have a weak armed QB who flutters in passes and Jacoby would be wasted here. Kubiak got as much as he could out of Jacoby and things didn't work out for him here. Sometimes you go to another team and things click for some reason. I'm happy for him because he seems like a good fun loving guy, but I still think the Texans made the right move by letting him go.

HJam72
02-05-2013, 09:43 PM
I said this in another thread about Jacoby and I guess I'll repeat the same thing here. I am of the opinion that the Texans made the right move letting him go due to a couple of reasons. He's a great returner and we saw that during his tenure here as a Texans but his salary didn't justify keeping him as solely as a kick returner. He is a poor receiver in terms of running routes in the middle of the field. He'll once in a while catch a deep pass and show his potential, but once again not justifiable for the kind of money he was going to make as a Texan. Also, we don't have a strong armed QB like Flacco to take advantage of Jacoby's speed. We have a weak armed QB who flutters in passes and Jacoby would be wasted here. Kubiak got as much as he could out of Jacoby and things didn't work out for him here. Sometimes you go to a another team and things click for some reason. I'm happy for him because he seems like a good fun loving guy, but I still think the Texans made the right move by letting him go.

Wow, it's like I'm reading my own thoughts. :goodpost:

GP
02-05-2013, 10:56 PM
I see Barney Fife is on the streets of Mayberry again.

Rounding up suspects.

Normally I'd respond to Barney's bull****. But I'll just be Andy and smile at him while I read the newspaper and let him work himself into a tizzy.

Go on, 'Barn. Let us know how it goes with the case of The Broken Window At Floyd's Barber Shop.

GP
02-05-2013, 11:15 PM
Come on, GP; just because no one agrees doesn't mean they are pumping sunshine. I get what you are saying. If you twist my arm enough, you could get me to agree along with you. However, that doesn't make them sunshine pumpers.

You want to win. We all do...

Sometimes it takes extraordinary things to sew up the details.

Why would the Ravens snatch up Jacoby so joyfully after the guy had just been miserable for the Texans versus their own Ravens team in the playoffs last year??? Wouldn't you actually run away from a guy like JJ after having just benefited from his mistake?

The Ravens have an uncanny way of taking players who are perceived to be bad apples, in one form or another, and polishing them up to a high sheen.

Their o-coordinator was holding them back...once they figured that out, their dominance returned to form.

I expected Jacoby Jones to be a major bust. Anecdotal history suggests that was the right expectation to have of him. Even people who "wished him well" still admitted he would have a poor shot at overcoming the odds.

I think it's funny that ONE GUY here (not you, btw) makes his message board living off of roasting me for having one opinion and then changing that opinion as more details and facts emerge when the smoke clears. But that's OK, some people put blinders on and never allow themselves to have their opinion changed....no matter how wrong they are in spite of the contrary being proven to be true. That doesn't make me trash as Barney Fife would like us to believe. It means I don't walk around with one bullet in my pocket acting like I have real authority.

See what I mean? Opinions change as time goes on. New information comes along, and you go "Oh, well that's certainly not what we expected is it?" And then you lol back and think, "OK, so maybe the guy wasn't as garbage as had been proposed."

I don't think JJ is all-world. But I do think he plays better when he feels people have his back no matter what. The fans don't mean **** either; I'm talking about the other 52 on the roster and the coaches. It's possible he found a place that isn't as uptight as Texan Land is. Rey has made some points about the culture here that Gary has created, points that I think are valid and interesting in terms of how things are shaking out now.

Daravenator
02-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Interesting how the Ravens guy disappeared when we started proving his "dramatic turnaround" claim wrong. I think he is trying to irritate us really.

Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

ThaShark316
02-06-2013, 10:22 AM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

The bold is what I think it was.

htowntexans1985
02-06-2013, 11:45 AM
Jacoby became the go to guy for us to blame when we lost. He never caught on as a wide receiver due to his horrible route running and butter fingers. So when he started screwing up on Special Teams that was his downfall. And all ravens fans know he single handedly gift wrapped 7 points for yall last season. So I doubt it had anything to do with coaching. And He still sucks at wide receiver. All he is, is a one trick pony. He probably spends 90% of his practice time on Special Teams and only 10% on Offense. Therefore letting him study coverages. We expected more of his here. A player id like to compare him to is devin hester. Who also sucked on Offense but might get into the hall of fame on his return abilities.

GP
02-06-2013, 11:54 AM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

Frankly, I think it has exposed a coaching and player management problem on our team.

I had thought that he was just incapable of doing anything other than the token reception for 15 yards and occasional TD on a return every other year. The playoff game vs. Ravens last year was the last straw.

Heading into the 2011 season, I thought Jacoby was going to have it all come together in 2011 with us. I was looking at his stats in the years prior, comparing them to David Anderson who was a role player at WR for us...two guys making WR contributions off-and-on over the years. I was convinced Jacoby would solidify himself as a playmaker in 2011. When the playoff blunder occurred, it was crushing for all of us. This team had invested so many years into helping him grow each year.

I do think that he's going to have moments of blunder with the Ravens. But the player who showed up in the playoffs this year was making plays at key moments, something he never did EVER with us.

The catch vs. Denver. The performance in the Super Bowl. It doesn't take 6 years for a guy to grow up in the NFL and get it right. No, he just found a team that hd the right mix of everything: Coaching, veteran leadership (as much as people bag on Ray Lewis, he IS a good on-the-field and in-the-locker-room leader there). It all came together for Jacoby.

I never saw it coming, not gonna' lie. I was thinking he was doomed. I even thought he would be a camp cut for you guys. Wow, what a turn-around. Few saw that degree of turn-around coming during camp last summer.

JCTexan
02-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

Simple: He didn't perform better. His WR statistics were down across the board, his punt return statistics weren't better. The only area he performed better was kickoff duties and Jacoby didn't return kickoffs for the Texans last year. The Ravens didn't have a different Jacoby Jones this year, they have the exact same player the Texans released: a game changer that is a big risk, big reward player.

sandman
02-06-2013, 12:16 PM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

Larry Brown was a Super Bowl MVP for the Cowboys.

Every post-season has an endearing story about a guy who plays way above what he normally does to help his team to glory.

Let's talk again after a few years and see what sustainability he has.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 12:54 PM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.


THREE of the FOUR stats you're quoting....are the SAME damn play!!!! You've yet to prove yourself RIGHT. IF one game makes you the greatest player in the history of football Larry Brown of the Dallas Cowboys should be in Canton right now getting fitted for a gold jacket and a ring...OH WAIT...he had one great Superbowl against a MEDIOCRE Steeler QB who threw him three interceptions in less than 5 minutes. Don't start preparing Judas for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame just yet.

sandman
02-06-2013, 01:37 PM
THREE of the FOUR stats you're quoting....are the SAME damn play!!!! You've yet to prove yourself RIGHT. IF one game makes you the greatest player in the history of football Larry Brown of the Dallas Cowboys should be in Canton right now getting fitted for a gold jacket and a ring...OH WAIT...he had one great Superbowl against a MEDIOCRE Steeler QB who threw him three interceptions in less than 5 minutes. Don't start preparing Judas for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame just yet.

Do you know what Jacoby did with the other five kickoff returns in the game?

Averaged 23 yards per return, and because he took all of them out of the end zone, gave his team average starting field position at their own 21. He never got the ball past the 28 yard line.

Home runner hitters usually have a high strike out ratio...

Vance87
02-06-2013, 01:53 PM
THREE of the FOUR stats you're quoting....are the SAME damn play!!!!

Hahaha...that's exactly what I thought

HouTx11
02-06-2013, 04:38 PM
I realize most, if not all, Houston Texans fans soured on Jacoby Jones, especially after he muffed the punt in the AFC Divisional Playoff game in Baltimore last year. Although he showed signs of greatness, he seemed to have trouble with drops while playing for the Texans.

So he was released, the Ravens signed him, and he went on to the Pro Bowl, caught a huge pass to tie the game against the Broncos in the AFC Divisional Playoff game, and made a comeback 56 yard catch for a TD and returned a second half-opening kickoff for a record 109 yards in the Super Bowl.

So, do you think he simply had "issues" while playing for the Texans, or was he simply not coached properly? It seems awfully odd that a player would have such a dramatic fall and rise so quickly in the span of one season. Had he remained a Texan, do you think he would have accomplished what he did this year, or would he have been a bust?

First of all sir congratulations on your team! They played with heart and they truly wanted to win it all! And I am very happy that Jacoby Jones has worked out well for you guys, although I for one am not surprised that it happened.

To answer your first question, Jacoby had issues dropping passes, but he has always had the ability to be a big playmaker. Unfortunately, the Texans fanbase saw his mistakes that sometimes happened (it wasn't like he was the only one screwing up out there) as "the" biggest problem on the team so he was considered public enemy #1 here in Houston. Jacoby didn't handle that well, which made matters worse and likely affected his play. The fumble against the Ravens was the final nail in the coffin. Even though T. J. Yates threw up INT after INT later in the game (including the one very late in the 4th quarter), there are many in Houston that amazingly believe that Jones' mistake early in the 1st quarter single handedly costed the Texans the game.

He needed to be somewhere where every move he made wasn't instantly criticised! He found that with the Ravens. With all of the day to day criticism lifted, he was able to step his game up, and now he and the Ravens have their 2nd SB ring! So in a way, Ravens fans owe it to the critical Texan fans, because you guys might not have the new rings right now had Jacoby not been ran out of Houston.

As for your 2nd question, if Jacoby had stayed in Houston he would not have a ring right now, because we now know for sure that the Texans' issues preventing them from reaching the big game were/are FAR FAR bigger than anything Jacoby ever did!

ESAD2-14
02-06-2013, 05:45 PM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.

Sometimes that's what it takes for some people to get it. Perhaps in Jacoby's situation that is what happened, perhaps not.

You have got to watch him for one year, we had four. He had his opportunities here and did not capitalize on them. A lot of people were expecting him to have a break out year at some point, it never happened. he had a problem with dropping punts while he was here, which came to a climax in last years playoff game (Ravens). For many that was the "nail in the coffin" as far as his career in Houston was concerned. I doubt there were to many that were surprised when he became a salary cap cut, even if they did want him to stay.

I can personally say that when ever I saw him going to catch a punt I was worried he would drop it, every time. My family got to calling him 50/50 Jones because we never knew. We also knew that he could break one and take it the house, but the fumbles seemed to be hurting the Texans more than the kick returns were helping.

However, none of these means that the Texans know what they are doing on special teams right now.

Texecutioner
02-06-2013, 06:58 PM
I see Barney Fife is on the streets of Mayberry again.

Rounding up suspects.

Normally I'd respond to Barney's bull****. But I'll just be Andy and smile at him while I read the newspaper and let him work himself into a tizzy.

Go on, 'Barn. Let us know how it goes with the case of The Broken Window At Floyd's Barber Shop.

You make it so easy. :cowboy1:

ATXtexanfan
02-06-2013, 07:59 PM
Jacoby on SI cover, dope

BullBlitz
02-06-2013, 08:06 PM
Jacoby on SI cover, dope

That is awesome. Good for him. I really enjoyed watching Jacoby have a good season. The only disappointing thing was that he didn't have a good game vs the Texans.

Maybe next year, with the game in Baltimore, he will. I, for one, will be pulling for him.

htowntexans1985
02-06-2013, 09:27 PM
That is awesome. Good for him. I really enjoyed watching Jacoby have a good season. The only disappointing thing was that he didn't have a good game vs the Texans.

Maybe next year, with the game in Baltimore, he will. I, for one, will be pulling for him.

Why would you want him to have a good game against the texans? :kubepalm:

imatexan
02-06-2013, 09:36 PM
I will say I was very wrong about him messing up in the big game, he did very much the opposite.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 07:36 AM
Maybe, just maybe, getting cut/released/whaever by the Texans FORCED JJ to grow the heck up and mature in to a total player.

htowntexans1985
02-07-2013, 07:47 AM
Maybe, just maybe, getting cut/released/whaever by the Texans FORCED JJ to grow the heck up and mature in to a total player.

He didnt mature or grow into anything. He's still the butter hands and occasional homerun Player he was when he was with us. The stats say it all. He bobbled multiple punt returns as well Sunday. If a 49er would have been their to blast him either time, it would have been a whole different outcome.

BullBlitz
02-07-2013, 08:07 AM
Maybe, just maybe, getting cut/released/whaever by the Texans FORCED JJ to grow the heck up and mature in to a total player.

That is certainly the version that the Texans would have you believe, because it relieves them of the responsibility of not having coached him and their special teams, as well as the embarrassment of releasing a player who went on to score two Super Bowl TDs the following season.

The fact is that Jacoby was no rookie. He was the virtually the same NFL-experienced player in 2011 as he was in 2012. The difference was that the Ravens were able to coach both Jacoby, and the special teams surrounding him, to be more effective against the opposition than the Texans were.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:13 AM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.


I stayed home with the a sick daughter and watched on TV....

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:17 AM
He didnt mature or grow into anything. He's still the butter hands and occasional homerun Player he was when he was with us. The stats say it all. He bobbled multiple punt returns as well Sunday. If a 49er would have been their to blast him either time, it would have been a whole different outcome.

But they weren't so your point is invalid.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:22 AM
That is certainly the version that the Texans would have you believe, because it relieves them of the responsibility of not having coached him and their special teams, as well as the embarrassment of releasing a player who went on to score two Super Bowl TDs the following season.

The fact is that Jacoby was no rookie. He was the virtually the same NFL-experienced player in 2011 as he was in 2012. The difference was that the Ravens were able to coach both Jacoby, and the special teams surrounding him, to be more effective against the opposition than the Texans were.


I said the same things in another thread about him....

Kubiak said, “He did everything I asked. I wish him the very best. I think a new start is best for him. I told him to put a smile on his face, get a new start and kick some butt in his new job.”= Mission accomplished

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:53 AM
I trashed Jacoby Jones..

I argued that the Texans were playing a game with a rookie QB and really didn't need to play from behind.

***********

That said, the Texans took the opening kick-off and got a field goal...

Kicked off... and the defense stopped the Ravens.

#Beautiful

Ravens punt.

Jacoby craps the bed and all of the sudden the Ravens are up 7-3. Thanks man!!!!

EFF YOU Jacoby! We took a chance on you not only to be a return guy (which you did well, no complaints there), but also to be a #2 receiver w/AJ...

You had 5 or 6 years to work that out and he failed.

*************************

Congratulations man!!!!

You had a helluva good game (and should've been MVP in some circles)

*************************

Scenery changes matter. In Baltimore you're the returner, but also there, you are expected to be a 3rd or 4th receiving option.

The Texans wanted you to be a second and maybe, eventually be a #1

*************************

Bottom Line:

You are what you are Jacoby... On the edge of "Kinda Good"


Bill I'm still waiting for hear of his vugging off and dying...but that's just me.

sandman
02-07-2013, 10:10 AM
I said the same things in another thread about him....

Kubiak said, “He did everything I asked. I wish him the very best. I think a new start is best for him. I told him to put a smile on his face, get a new start and kick some butt in his new job.”= Mission accomplished

You'd pretty much have to get a player to kick Kubiak in the nuts for him to say anything bad about them, and then he would still probably follow up with a "but he's a good kid".

Listen, Jacoby had two AMAZING plays in the Super Bowl and one against Denver. He clearly contributed to the success of the Ravens in the playoffs. I don't think anyone here is denying that.

Having the biggest game of his career in the Super Bowl was the best thing that could have ever happened to him.

I think people are more taking issue with phrasing like "coached up", "turned the corner" and "at the next level" when referring to what he did for Baltimore versus what he did for the Texans. He actually had worse punt return and receiving stats this year in the regular season, and outside of those three plays in the playoffs, was pretty much a non-factor.

If anything, especially if you look at the immediate success that Holliday had in Denver after being cut by the Texans, his success is more indicative of a better scheme from the 10 guys blocking in front of him than about any "next level" steps that he took as an individual.

For the last three years, Lardarius Webb and David Reed have had essentially the same return stats from an average yard perspective, and between the two of them were giving one return TD a year. What Jacoby did looks like more because he handled both duties instead of splitting them.

The only difference between what Jacoby gave the Ravens this year, compared to the last three years with Webb/Reed, were two more return TD's. Not saying that is something small, but it would appear that the Ravens special team unit is very much plug-and-play like the old Broncos running backs.

AJ-80
02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
Jacoby's enlightening thoughts on the parade....pretty funny actually

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opiBd9gnygM

handswarmer
02-08-2013, 10:01 AM
You'd pretty much have to get a player to kick Kubiak in the nuts for him to say anything bad about them, and then he would still probably follow up with a "but he's a good kid".

Listen, Jacoby had two AMAZING plays in the Super Bowl and one against Denver. He clearly contributed to the success of the Ravens in the playoffs. I don't think anyone here is denying that.

Having the biggest game of his career in the Super Bowl was the best thing that could have ever happened to him.

I think people are more taking issue with phrasing like "coached up", "turned the corner" and "at the next level" when referring to what he did for Baltimore versus what he did for the Texans. He actually had worse punt return and receiving stats this year in the regular season, and outside of those three plays in the playoffs, was pretty much a non-factor.

If anything, especially if you look at the immediate success that Holliday had in Denver after being cut by the Texans, his success is more indicative of a better scheme from the 10 guys blocking in front of him than about any "next level" steps that he took as an individual.

For the last three years, Lardarius Webb and David Reed have had essentially the same return stats from an average yard perspective, and between the two of them were giving one return TD a year. What Jacoby did looks like more because he handled both duties instead of splitting them.

The only difference between what Jacoby gave the Ravens this year, compared to the last three years with Webb/Reed, were two more return TD's. Not saying that is something small, but it would appear that the Ravens special team unit is very much plug-and-play like the old Broncos running backs.

Red fumbled alot and made poor decisions in he return game. Webb returning kicks put him at risk as a starting corner

EllisUnit
02-08-2013, 07:02 PM
I realize most, if not all, Houston Texans fans soured on Jacoby Jones, especially after he muffed the punt in the AFC Divisional Playoff game in Baltimore last year. Although he showed signs of greatness, he seemed to have trouble with drops while playing for the Texans.

So he was released, the Ravens signed him, and he went on to the Pro Bowl, caught a huge pass to tie the game against the Broncos in the AFC Divisional Playoff game, and made a comeback 56 yard catch for a TD and returned a second half-opening kickoff for a record 109 yards in the Super Bowl.

So, do you think he simply had "issues" while playing for the Texans, or was he simply not coached properly? It seems awfully odd that a player would have such a dramatic fall and rise so quickly in the span of one season. Had he remained a Texan, do you think he would have accomplished what he did this year, or would he have been a bust?

Give it a season or 2 and you will see what we saw, looks good the first year or two, but it wont last.

Ryan
02-08-2013, 07:30 PM
Well, some of us have careers, family, and a Super Bowl parade to attend.

Irritate you? I thought it a legimate and serious question. Here's a guy basically run out of Houston on a rail, a guy many labeled a bust, a flop, a loser....and another team picks him up, dusts him off, and he winds up in the Pro Bowl, makes a game-tying late-second TD in a Divisional playoff, and scores two big TD's in a Super Bowl victory. And why did that happen? Why did he perform so much better in Baltimore than he did for the Texans?

Was it simply a change of scenery? Was it playing for a coach with a strong background in special teams, who saw something in him Kubiak did not? Was it mentoring by veteran players?

Seriously, how often does a guy get vilified and kicked out of town as a bum, and wind up a Pro Bowler, setting these NFL records in one year?

Longest kickoff return (108, tied)
Longest kickoff return in a Super Bowl (108)
Longest play in a Super Bowl (108)
Most all-purpose yards in a Super Bowl (289)

I do not think you have proven me wrong in any way, shape or form. The above speaks for itself.


No, he was the exact same player he was in Houston. His receiving stats in Baltimore this year were his lowest since 2008. His return ability has never changed, he still can be an explosive player in the return game, and he was for us. He had quite a bit of his good returns nullified here because of our horrible ST unit and coach. He did NOT perform better in Baltimore than he did here. He had a great SB, no one is going to deny that, but it won't change the fact that he did not magically get better when going to Baltimore. Kubiak/Marciano trained him to focus more on not making mistakes, Harbaugh I definitely think believed in him more and just told him to just GO. Still does not change that he did not get better in Baltimore.

Yes, it does seem like you were trying to irritate us. Posting a question in the wrong section of the forum the day after he was a big factor in you winning the Super Bowl, and then thanking us for letting him go(maybe that was not you). Do you expect us to not be bitter about that? And congrats on the SB parade you got to attend, you still disappeared after some people proved that he didn't just have a magical turnaround.