PDA

View Full Version : Stupor Bowl Ring Not withstanding Joe Flacco STILL aint that great


Dread-Head
02-04-2013, 03:15 PM
He has a Superbowl ring and in his mind this makes him worth the $20million a year he THINKS he's worth, but let's be honest. If you gave David Carr Antoine Bolden he'd look like a probowl QB. The Raven's D and some blind refs gave them a Championship it still doesn't change the fact that Flacco doesn't warrant being mentioned in the same breath with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Roethlisburger, Brees or some of the elites to have played the position. For what it's worth hell David Carr has a stupor bowl ring too...doesn't make HIM a better QB.

Luv_ya_blue
02-04-2013, 03:17 PM
I know you did NOT mention David C***!


Just said it before someone else does.
I agree fwiw.

Dread-Head
02-04-2013, 03:18 PM
I know you did NOT mention David C***!


Just said it before someone else does.
I agree fwiw.

I would have said "Bubby Brister 2.0" or "Flacco 1.0" but some wouldn't have known what I meant.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 03:22 PM
He has a Superbowl ring and in his mind this makes him worth the $20million a year he THINKS he's worth, but let's be honest. If you gave David Carr Antoine Bolden he'd look like a probowl QB. The Raven's D and some blind refs gave them a Championship it still doesn't change the fact that Flacco doesn't warrant being mentioned in the same breath with Manning, Brady, Rogers, Roethlisburger, Brees or some of the elites to have played the position. For what it's worth hell David Carr has a stupor bowl ring too...doesn't make HIM a better QB.
I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

Rey
02-04-2013, 03:43 PM
I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

Must spread....

I do not know what people look at sometimes...

Carr had Andre Johnson, but now if he gets Boldin he's winning superbowls??:barman:

Luv_ya_blue
02-04-2013, 03:44 PM
I would have said "Bubby Brister 2.0" or "Flacco 1.0" but some wouldn't have known what I meant.

I don't have the anti-Carr venom that some do `round these parts.

I see Flacco as being the role player WITH the tools that are needed to take the team where they need to go. Let's be honest, if not for J@**** Freakin' J@*** and his TWO TDs, there's really not a game at all. But Flacco managed to hit him for one of those TDs and if the 49ers defender doesn't do some stupid hurdling move instead of touching the player--it may be a 3 point drive rather than ending up 7. Take the KR for TD off the board and the 49ers win this one convincingly.

But that's all pie-in-the-sky because it didn't end up that way. In any event, I don't know that you need a superstar/elite QB to win a championship. I mean for Pete's sake, the Ravens have shown that to be true with 1st Dilfer and now Flacco! But if the coaches choose to make him (and his weaknesses) the core of the scheme because they choose to try and constantly outthink the room, rather than just DO WHAT WORKS, it's on them.

Luv_ya_blue
02-04-2013, 03:45 PM
I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

He absolutely made some great passes.
I just don't see Flacco nearly as much elite as he is, fortunate to fit into the system.

I could be wrong.

TexanSam
02-04-2013, 03:49 PM
David Carr had Andre Johnson. Joe Flacco may not be elite during the regular season, but this is two years in a row where he's been excellent in the post-season. He's great when it counts.

GP
02-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Is He or Is He Not Elite Joe Flacco, I Fumble Everything Jacoby Jones, Old Man Boldin, Old Man Lewis, Old Man Leach, Penalty Fanatic Pollard, a new o-coordinator halfway through the reg season, they just pretty much told everybody to STFU. IMO.

But yeah, let's try to rationalize why they just lucked into a SB ring.

Some people will do anything to minimize the pain of being a Texans fan.

By the way, they came back and beat the Broncos (tried like hell to help us out by giving us one half of the equation for Home Field in a potential Houston-hosted AFCC game, by the way). Then they freaking DRUBBED the Patriots and made them look like maroons.

Pretty bad thread decision, DreadHead. Take a mulligan.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 04:06 PM
He absolutely made some great passes.
I just don't see Flacco nearly as much elite as he is, fortunate to fit into the system.

I could be wrong.

Did Joe Flacco just have the best playoffs of any quarterback we've ever seen?

Not joking. This is a conversation that absolutely needs to be had. The Flacchise has numbers that place him into that discussion, and if anything, the numbers might underrate how good he's been during these playoffs.

Let's start with the numbers, though, because they're staggering. Flacco finished the postseason having gone 73-of-126 (57.9 percent) for 1,140 passing yards with 11 touchdowns and zero interceptions. Eleven to zero. Only one other player since the merger has produced a touchdown-to-interception ratio equal to or better than that in the playoffs, and it's a guy who has a pretty sterling postseason reputation: Joe Montana.

Montana's 1989 season pretty clearly stands out to me as the greatest postseason run since 1970, but I've gone ahead and listed some other notable Super Bowl–winning postseasons that might put Flacco's big January into context:

Player Year Team GP Cmp Att Cmp% Yds Y/Att TD INT Rating Yds/Gm
Joe Montana 1989 49ers 3 65 83 78.3% 800 9.6 11 0 146.4 266.7
Troy Aikman 1992 Cowboys 3 61 89 68.5% 795 8.9 8 0 126.4 265.0
Steve Young 1994 49ers 3 53 87 60.9% 623 7.2 9 0 117.2 207.7
Joe Flacco 2012 Ravens 4 73 126 57.9% 1140 9.0 11 0 117.2 285.0
Drew Brees 2009 Saints 3 72 102 70.6% 732 7.2 8 0 117.0 244.0
Joe Montana 1988 49ers 3 56 90 62.2% 823 9.1 8 1 117.0 274.3
Joe Theismann 1982 Redskins 4 58 85 68.2% 716 8.4 8 3 110.7 179.0
Aaron Rodgers 2010 Packers 4 90 132 68.2% 1094 8.3 9 2 109.8 273.5
Terry Bradshaw 1978 Steelers 3 44 78 56.4% 790 10.1 8 4 104.1 263.3
Eli Manning 2011 Giants 4 106 163 65.0% 1219 7.5 9 1 103.3 304.8


It's admittedly going to be hard to top Montana, who basically played perfect football for three consecutive weeks. Flacco arguably had to shoulder a heavier portion of the workload than Montana did with his 49ers, but that's partly due to a shift in league trends; note that Aaron Rodgers (2010) and Eli Manning (2011) each threw more passes than Flacco and the rest of the group. Based on the numbers, Flacco probably belongs in a group just behind Montana, alongside Troy Aikman (1992) and Rodgers's 2010 campaign. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8912868/bill-barnwell-puts-ravens-win-perspective

Playoffs
02-04-2013, 04:53 PM
Joe Flacco is better than he's been allowed to be under Cam Cameron.

He was the best QB in these playoffs with a 117 QB rating.

Gotta give the man his due -- he took the chances & they paid off. :clap:

Thorn
02-04-2013, 05:43 PM
It doesn't matter how good Flacid is. He won this years Super Bowl so he'll be a big topic all off season.

eriadoc
02-04-2013, 06:33 PM
If you gave David Carr Antoine Bolden he'd look like a probowl QB.

Dread, regardless what anyone thinks about Flacco, this is clearly one of the most ... off ... things you've ever written.

toronto
02-04-2013, 08:05 PM
I was already on board with Flacco being damn good, but his post season elevated him to another level. Dread you took on the wrong QB here. This guys stock is google-sequence and deservedly so.

I would take him over almost any QB now. Smart, young, great deep ball and calm under pressure. And now, at its purest form, winner.

dtran04
02-04-2013, 09:08 PM
He deserves the payday that is upcoming. Although he should send a few million towards Rahim Moore. :)

Probably will make an extra $20 million because of the playoffs.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 09:27 PM
Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.


What's worse, is that he did the same thing in last year's play-offs. Had this been the first time he put on a show like that, yeah I can see how some would attribute it to luck, or whatever. But a second time?

Surely you've got to at least acknowledge that maybe there's something there.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 09:40 PM
Although he should send a few million towards Rahim Moore. :)



Preparation meet opportunity.

Lucky
02-04-2013, 09:54 PM
I don't know if Joe "Hardy" Flacco didn't made a Faustian deal. And I don't know if he will be an elite QB next season. But in these playoffs, he was elite. And I'm sure his agent will remind the Ravens.

Texecutioner
02-04-2013, 09:58 PM
I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

No question he has looked very good in the post season. But all of this elite talk has been pretty over the top and way to quick. Flacco has had a very nice run, and played pretty well in the post season last year, but he has to show that he carry his team from this point on and put the fear into defenses year after year. Guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Manning have been doing this for years at the highest level. That is why they are called elite in the first place. For years people have considered the QB position one of the weakest positions on the Ravens team with Flacco out there. Many of them even said at one point that the only reason why the Steelers had more SB rings then they did was because the Steelers had Ben and they had Flacco. People are forgetting that QB's and teams make big runs every year. Flacco has a lot further to go as far as getting into that conversation. This post season run that he helped to lead his team on was a giant leap for Flacco. Let's see if he can maintain that consistency in the season for 16 games without his fans and his team questioning him as the guy. Ravens fans have had just as much controversy with Flacco as the QB as Schaub has recently had here.

Dutchrudder
02-05-2013, 12:07 AM
I think it's pretty obvious that the issue with the Ravens offense the past few years was Cam Cameron. Flacco looked like a different QB once Cam was gone, and the playbook was adjusted to work to Flacco's strengths, adjust the offensive line protections, and better scheme against the pass rush. I wouldn't call Flacco elite, but he's certainly moved in to the tier 2 discussion.

dream_team
02-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Here's a better question. Would you pay 12+ mil a year for him? I think that's what Baltimore will end up giving him. Flacco made the smartest decision in his life by not extending before the season.

Goatcheese
02-05-2013, 05:19 AM
Flacco isn't a bum, but nobody was calling this guy elite 4 weeks ago. Suddenly he has 2 good games (nothing amazing) and one decent game and he's being talked about like a guy who carries his team.

The playoffs have moved his valuation up, but you can't just erase years of average play.

He's never thrown for over 4,000 yards, and his best YPA season was just 7.4. He's not a guy who can throw a mediocre team on his back and take them deep in the playoffs every year like a Manning, Brady or Brees.

I would still rank him bellow Schaub and Rapistburger.

Here's a better question. Would you pay 12+ mil a year for him? I think that's what Baltimore will end up giving him. Flacco made the smartest decision in his life by not extending before the season.

With the state of QB salaries, Flacco has earned $12+ mil and I think most teams who don't have a better QB would cough up that and then some.

HoustonFrog
02-05-2013, 07:14 AM
I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

This!!!!

11 TDs, 0 interceptions in playoffs. 124 QB rating in SB. And your behind the times if your pumping up their D. They were around 17th in every major category this year. Not the same team. He also was great using Torrey Smith and Jacoby. This is a fail when it comes to post ideas.

BTW, post Cam Cameron 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 07:31 AM
The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 07:38 AM
This!!!!

11 TDs, 0 interceptions in playoffs. 124 QB rating in SB. And your behind the times if your pumping up their D. They were around 17th in every major category this year. Not the same team. He also was great using Torrey Smith and Jacoby. This is a fail when it comes to post ideas.

BTW, post Cam Cameron 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int.

There's another thread ("Oh my...") where the writer questions the small sample sizes we use to formulate our opinions. This 7 game stretch you're mentioning is just that. I'd have to imagine Flacco has posted similar numbers at some other time in his career. His play off performance last year was just as impressive as what he had done this year.

Just saying I don't know that removing Cam Cameron equals a better Flacco. When they played us over the last two or three years, they seemed to go deep quite a bit. They've always had a vertical offense, they just had issues providing the protection needed to do so.

Then there's the "firing the OC will light a fire under their butts" thing. Just the fact that Cameron was fired mid season could have been the mental motivation they needed & it's affects could wear off by September. Not saying that's the case, just saying that may be the primary reason for this "short-term" performance.

I'm all about Flacco, I think his stock has gone up as a result of his most recent play-off performance. I think it's confirmation of what we saw last year. So it's not that I don't think much of Flacco, just what we're attributing his success to. He's always been streaky. A couple of great games followed by a couple of duds.

He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 07:43 AM
The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.


Maybe you should take up another hobby if it's getting too intense for you. This isn't going to go away, it's just getting started. & if you're going to get your panties in a wad every time it comes up.... maybe you need a time out.



Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

For some reason that doesn't scare me. I'm not worried about playing the Ravens next year. Our chances of winning is 50/50 if not better. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're favored to win by more than the home field advantage (-3 if at Reliant).

Seriously doubt we'll be favored against the Patriots or the Packers or Saints (thank God we're not playing the Packers or Saints).

HoustonFrog
02-05-2013, 08:13 AM
There's another thread ("Oh my...") where the writer questions the small sample sizes we use to formulate our opinions. This 7 game stretch you're mentioning is just that. I'd have to imagine Flacco has posted similar numbers at some other time in his career. His play off performance last year was just as impressive as what he had done this year.

Just saying I don't know that removing Cam Cameron equals a better Flacco. When they played us over the last two or three years, they seemed to go deep quite a bit. They've always had a vertical offense, they just had issues providing the protection needed to do so.

Then there's the "firing the OC will light a fire under their butts" thing. Just the fact that Cameron was fired mid season could have been the mental motivation they needed & it's affects could wear off by September. Not saying that's the case, just saying that may be the primary reason for this "short-term" performance.

I'm all about Flacco, I think his stock has gone up as a result of his most recent play-off performance. I think it's confirmation of what we saw last year. So it's not that I don't think much of Flacco, just what we're attributing his success to. He's always been streaky. A couple of great games followed by a couple of duds.

He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games.

Give me a break. They haven't always been vertical. They have TRIED to be vertical but Cameron was giving the ball to Rice around 44% of the plays...which equals no play action and no one open deep. When Caldwell took over, Rice started getting it around 51% of the time and all of a sudden the deep ball and play action were open. Coincidence?

I don't care when his streak was. They just beat Indy, went on the road and beat Denver, went on the road and beat NE and then played in the SB and beat SF. Arguably the 3 top teams in the league in a row. In that span he doesn't throw an interception. Sorry, you can speculate all you want, the numbers play out that he played his tail off and stepped it up another level. Saying anything else is untruthful.

As for the word elite...I don't use it and not sure this makes him elite. I just know what he did was awesome. But there are elite QBs that all have dud games. Brady, Rodgers, etc all have bad games. So saying he has to be a stud for 16 games and playoffs makes no sense.

GP
02-05-2013, 08:32 AM
The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

You left me off the Nice List :(

90% of us are accepting of Flacco. The hold-outs are more or less "sour grapes" posters who are jealous that a "blah" QB not named Matt Schaub won a ring.

Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.

Jacoby's performance has done the same to Kubiak's player management and ineffectiveness at using the talent in ways that focuses on player strengths, i.e. "Letting the guys play and leaving the micromanagement at home." Once Jacoby landed on a team that didn't have a water-tight sphincter for a head coach, he becomes a new man all of a sudden.

So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

Rey
02-05-2013, 09:18 AM
So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

This.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 10:03 AM
Give me a break. They haven't always been vertical. They have TRIED to be vertical but Cameron was giving the ball to Rice around 44% of the plays...which equals no play action and no one open deep. When Caldwell took over, Rice started getting it around 51% of the time and all of a sudden the deep ball and play action were open. Coincidence?

I don't care when his streak was. They just beat Indy, went on the road and beat Denver, went on the road and beat NE and then played in the SB and beat SF. Arguably the 3 top teams in the league in a row. In that span he doesn't throw an interception. Sorry, you can speculate all you want, the numbers play out that he played his tail off and stepped it up another level. Saying anything else is untruthful.

Give me a break. I didn't say anything contrary to what you just said. They're more vertical now than they were under Cam... doesn't contradict what I said when you state they were "trying" to be vertical.. which is what I said.

As for the word elite...I don't use it and not sure this makes him elite. I just know what he did was awesome. But there are elite QBs that all have dud games. Brady, Rodgers, etc all have bad games. So saying he has to be a stud for 16 games and playoffs makes no sense.

I agree, which is why I didn't say that.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 10:05 AM
Must spread....

I do not know what people look at sometimes...

Carr had Andre Johnson, but now if he gets Boldin AND A DEFENSE WHO HAS TO BE FED RAW MEAT he's winning superbowls??:barman:

:fingergun: There...fixed it for ya. Carr is now a back up to a guy who is slightly better than HE is but has a WALL of a defense which earned them BOTH of their superbowl rings. And doesn't Carr HAVE a ring now?

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 10:20 AM
Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.


Flacco's performance definitely highlighted Matt's lack of big game production.

I am not convinced that Matt is not capable. He's definitely not capable in the way that Flacco is (though some will point to Flacco's undrthrown deep balls), but Matt is capable none the less.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 10:26 AM
He absolutely made some great passes.
I just don't see Flacco nearly as much "elite" as he is, fortunate to fit into the system.

I could be wrong.


Thank you!

HoustonFrog
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Give me a break. I didn't say anything contrary to what you just said. They're more vertical now than they were under Cam... doesn't contradict what I said when you state they were "trying" to be vertical.. which is what I said.


I agree, which is why I didn't say that.

You said "He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games."

My point being that you can't eliminate dud games. They happen to everyone. I'm not going to downgrade a guy who plays well when he has some bad games unless it becomes consistently like that or trends start developing.

You also said "they always had a vertical offense." The difference between what we are talking here is trying and having one. They way you talked Flacco was that he always threw deep and just now got streaky. My point was that he was put in the right offense finally to make it more about the talent he has always had vs. having to force despite the way the offense was run. My argument is he always had this talent but we are just now seeing what he can do with it. As I said, 0 ints vs Indy, Denver, NE and SF big time.

We are splitting hairs but when you jumped in and in yesterdays Schaub thread you definitely have/had a beef with Flacco being considered a top QB.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 10:33 AM
You left me off the Nice List :(

90% of us are accepting of Flacco. The hold-outs are more or less "sour grapes" posters who are jealous that a "blah" QB not named Matt Schaub won a ring.

Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.

Jacoby's performance has done the same to Kubiak's player management and ineffectiveness at using the talent in ways that focuses on player strengths, i.e. "Letting the guys play and leaving the micromanagement at home." Once Jacoby landed on a team that didn't have a water-tight sphincter for a head coach, he becomes a new man all of a sudden.

So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

Sorry bud....you nailed it.....back on the nice list

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 10:36 AM
The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.


:headhurts: Handswarmer baby, take off your fan goggles for a minute here. Your team just won the Superbowl and you're still smiling from ear to ear and that's great, But ...and I love big "buts" and I can not lie I have to burst your bubble right quick. When fans see "Baltimore" on their team's schedule they think: "Oh God! RAY LEWIS!" or "Damn! Our Receivers will have their hands full trying to get past Ed Reed and that secondary" and even "man, that is one tough defense." NO ONE is thinking "OH MY GOD! We have to have to face FLACCO!" You're a loyal Raven fan which is why you're comparing him to Payton Manning, but you're comparing apples and tomatoes. Both are fruit, but hardly simular. Joe Montana? Now you've gone from rabid fan to either delusional or HIGH. You might as well say Flacco is better than Dan Marino and Mr. Warren Moon because neither of them has a Superbowl ring and HE does. Joe Montana got into the hall of fame on the first ballot and has FOUR of these :trophy:. Flacco just got his ONE. If your team is facing the Ravens Flacco is an AFTERTHOUGHT. He's a mediocre QB on a team with a GREAT defense. I'm not trying to be harsh here man, but it's the truth.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 10:40 AM
Maybe you should take up another hobby if it's getting too intense for you. This isn't going to go away, it's just getting started. & if you're going to get your panties in a wad every time it comes up.... maybe you need a time out.




For some reason that doesn't scare me. I'm not worried about playing the Ravens next year. Our chances of winning is 50/50 if not better. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're favored to win by more than the home field advantage (-3 if at Reliant).

Seriously doubt we'll be favored against the Patriots or the Packers or Saints (thank God we're not playing the Packers or Saints).

LOL! You've never seen me upset...I just dislike the "Lists" that people come up with ("The Best Tailgate in th NFL" or "Top QB's of ALL TIME") but provide no criteria for determining the list. No Guidelines.

That is all- and I never said te Ravens should strike fear into anyone next year. They will have alot of FA that will be cashing in with new teams- Ravens are up aganst the Cap and have to sign Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, Pitta, etc.......besides signin all the draft picks....I expect 8-8, 9-7....

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 10:46 AM
LOL! You've never seen me upset...I just dislike the "Lists" that people come up with ("The Best Tailgate in th NFL" or "Top QB's of ALL TIME") but provide no criteria for determining the list. No Guidelines.

That is all- and I never said te Ravens should strike fear into anyone next year. They will have alot of FA that will be cashing in with new teams- Ravens are up aganst the Cap and have to sign Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, Pitta, etc.......besides signin all the draft picks....I expect 8-8, 9-7....

Flacco needs to ask for 10 mil a season and leave it at that. His 20 mil will screw the rest of the team with the cap. There will be a HUGE dif in that Defense without Ray. There will be no DYNASTY and they like many defending champs won't make it two in a row. This is merely the end of the Ray Lewis era.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 11:01 AM
:headhurts: Handswarmer baby, take off your fan goggles for a minute here. Your team just won the Superbowl and you're still smiling from ear to ear and that's great, But ...and I love big "buts" and I can not lie I have to burst your bubble right quick. When fans see "Baltimore" on their team's schedule they think: "Oh God! RAY LEWIS!" or "Damn! Our Receivers will have their hands full trying to get past Ed Reed and that secondary" and even "man, that is one tough defense." NO ONE is thinking "OH MY GOD! We have to have to face FLACCO!" You're a loyal Raven fan which is why you're comparing him to Payton Manning, but you're comparing apples and tomatoes. Both are fruit, but hardly simular. Joe Montana? Now you've gone from rabid fan to either delusional or HIGH. You might as well say Flacco is better than Dan Marino and Mr. Warren Moon because neither of them has a Superbowl ring and HE does. Joe Montana got into the hall of fame on the first ballot and has FOUR of these :trophy:. Flacco just got his ONE. If your team is facing the Ravens Flacco is an AFTERTHOUGHT. I'm not trying to be harsh here man, but it's the truth.

He has as many rings as Manning, P.

As many as Kurt Warner.

I pointed out that Flacco threw for 11 TDs and Zero Interceptions which tied the record for most TD's without an Interception in th playoffs. Montana happens to head the list.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 11:11 AM
Flacco needs to ask for 10 mil a season and leave it at that. His 20 mil will screw the rest of the team with the cap. There will be a HUGE dif in that Defense without Ray. There will be no DYNASTY and they like many defending champs won't make it two in a row. This is merely the end of the Ray Lewis era.

#1- Check out the coming salaries for QB's http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/2013/quarterback/ He beat #1- in his house.

#2- If you think that Ray's ret will be a detriment to the defense, then you haven't been watching. I expect it to be te same maybe even better. His knowledge couldn't ****er the loss of speed on the field- watch the playoffs over again, especially in the SB- the 9er's tore him an new hole across the middle...

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 11:17 AM
He has as many rings as Manning, P.

As many as Kurt Warner.

I pointed out that Flacco threw for 11 TDs and Zero Interceptions which tied the record for most TD's without an Interception in th playoffs. Montana happens to head the list.

Warner was MARGINALLY better than Flacco. But if you're comparing him to MANNING then I have to admit I've NEVER tried drugs, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to BEG for some of whatever it is you're smoking, shooting into your veins or otherwise sticking into your nose.


There are no Manning or Brady lovers on this MB, but to paraphrase a line from Malcolm in the Middle if Flacco considers himself the PEER of either of the men you've mentioned I would laugh in his face and say: "Yeah right...*[ability wise] you should be his pet!" Doug Williams had a better Superbowl than your boy Flacco. He aint gettin' into the hall of fame either. Your team won the big one two days ago. Congrats, but don't get it twisted. He's not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the NFL royalty you were rattling off. Enjoy your parade later this week it'll be a while before they have another one.


*Substituted for "intellectually"

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 11:22 AM
Warner was MARGINALLY better than Flacco. But if you're comparing him to MANNING then I have to admit I've NEVER tried drugs, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to BEG for some of whatever it is you're smoking, shooting into your veins or otherwise sticking into your nose.


There are no Manning or Brady lovers on this MB, but to paraphrase a line from Malcolm in the Middle if Flacco considers himself the PEER of either of the men you've mentioned I would laugh in his face and say "Yeah right...*[ability wise] you should be his pet!" Doug Williams had a better Superbowl than your boy Flacco. He aint gettin' into the hall of fame either. Your team won the big on two days ago. Congrats, but don't get it twisted. He's not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as the NFL royalty you were rattling off. Enjoy your parade later this week it'll be a while before they have another one.


*Substituted for "intellectually"

Dude, I am at the parade right now- me and 350,000 of my closest friends....watch it live on te NFL Network....Jacoby Jones just went past.....while he danced....

Now instead of 'elite' you use the term 'royalty'...whats your criteria...

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 11:24 AM
#1- Check out the coming salaries for QB's http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/2013/quarterback/ He beat #1- in his house.

#2- If you think that Ray's ret will be a detriment to the defense, then you haven't been watching. I expect it to be te same maybe even better. His knowledge couldn't ****er the loss of speed on the field- watch the playoffs over again, especially in the SB- the 9er's tore him an new hole across the middle...

Losing Ray is like losing the HEART of your defense. He's essentially been an onfield COACH for the bulk of his career. If you think it'll be "business as usual" without him you're delusional. It would be like the Texans offense losing Andre Johnson then acting as if they were complete without him.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Dude, I am at the parade right now- me and 350,000 of my closest friends....watch it live on te NFL Network....Jacoby Jones just went past.....while he danced....

Now instead of 'elite' you use the term 'royalty'...whats your criteria...

:headhurts: Let me see if I can get this straight, your team won the superbowl and instead of enjoying a once in a lifetime event at which you're present, you're here debating with MY crazy ass over my inconsequential opinion of your teams' QB?! Fool go back to your PARADE! Savor it and post pics of EVERYONE BUT JUDAS!

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 11:32 AM
You said "He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games."

My point being that you can't eliminate dud games.

Big difference between eliminate & minimize.

Compared to the Bradies, Rogers, & Brees.... he has more dud games. Too many.


We are splitting hairs but when you jumped in and in yesterdays Schaub thread you definitely have/had a beef with Flacco being considered a top QB.

He's a top QB. I've never tried to take that away from him (Since the Super Bowl). In comparison to Schaub I've said he & Ryan were thought to be in the same tier until the play offs. My point was more about Matt Schaub than Joe Flacco.

If Flacco can go from eh.. to borderline elite (which he is) with a great play off run (for Flacco it's been two great play off runs, but he's been more blah.. than Schaub in the regular season), then so can Schaub. Ryan has had one great play off run & a great season so I can see him in that same category (as Flacco) as well.

Up until these play offs, Ryan just like Schaub was thought to shrink in big games. Didn't matter that he had a decent defense, Roddy White, & Tony Gonzales, the Falcons decided to give him another weapon & now Ryan is a better QB because of it.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 11:39 AM
:headhurts: Let me see if I can get this straight, your team won the superbowl and instead of enjoying a once in a lifetime event at which you're present, you're here debating with MY crazy ass over my inconsequential opinion of your teams' QB?! Fool go back to your PARADE! Savor it and post pics of EVERYONE BUT JUDAS!

Why not? I can get love from the 400,000 people present....they just shut the Stadium gates- 100,000 plus in there right now...only seats 70,000.....headed to the bar....gonna have a "Jacoby Special"- its a purple Grape Vodka and Tonic drink that leaves a Ring! Hee hee hee

Scooter
02-05-2013, 11:46 AM
joe flacco's now elite ... is that the term for everyone? peyton manning, tom brady, aaron rodgers, and usually drew brees are generally the head of the pack regardless of who you ask - elite. how did flacco break into those ranks with one playoff run? or does that make ben and his 2 rings elite? eli and his 2 rings? that's 7 elite quarterbacks, 3 added because of what they've done in the playoffs.

now tell me this - age not withstanding, who here would take flacco over luck? over RG3 or kaepernick or wilson? over matt ryan? over the other 6 "elite" quarterbacks? i wouldnt, which puts him just outside a top 10 quarterback in my book. i'd also strongly consider cutler or stafford, but that's beside the point. sure he's a good quarterback, you can (obviously) win in the playoffs with flacco, but he didnt morph into a top 3 quarterback in the span of a month.

AJ-80
02-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Not elite now; however, he has the physical tools to become elite in the next couple of years. I think the OC change had a huge positive impact on him.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Not elite now; however, he has the physical tools to become elite in the next couple of years. I think the OC change had a huge positive impact on him.

Bingo!:goodpost:

toronto
02-05-2013, 12:42 PM
Why not? I can get love from the 400,000 people present....they just shut the Stadium gates- 100,000 plus in there right now...only seats 70,000.....headed to the bar....gonna have a "Jacoby Special"- its a purple Grape Vodka and Tonic drink that leaves a Ring! Hee hee hee

You are officially the first person I have ever seen online posting on a non divisional rival fan site during your victory parade. Draw your own conclusions on what that looks like.

toronto
02-05-2013, 12:44 PM
Ray got all the attention, but there were several plays were the ran ISO cam replays that clearly showed he was a liability. Their defense may actually ge better next year without him. That bugs me.

srrono
02-05-2013, 01:05 PM
Alex Dunlap ‏@AlexDunlapNFL
Ravens gotta be nervous as hell w/ the idea of making Flacco-14th in 2012 yds,15th in TDs behind Fitzpatrick/Freeman-highest paid NFL player

DEFINE ELITE. "Elite in the NFL means, at its most lenient, the top 10 percent of players at the position. Of 32 starting quarterbacks, "elite" would refer to just three. No sane person would take Joe Flacco over Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees right now. (For the future, sure, but not for next season). Joe Flacco is not elite. Only three QBs are ever elite in a given season. It's just simple logic.''
-- From Jon Miller, Currituck, N.C.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 01:14 PM
Why not? I can get love from the 400,000 people present....they just shut the Stadium gates- 100,000 plus in there right now...only seats 70,000.....headed to the bar....gonna have a "Jacoby Special"- its a purple Grape Vodka and Tonic drink that leaves a Ring! Hee hee hee

Consider something. Vonte Leech and Bernard Pollard are both former Texans. Go back over my post and see if I've called either of them "Judas", traitors or anything else disparaging. Don't waste your time. I haven't. They are class acts and as a Texans/Steeler fan I BEGRUDGINGLY tip my hat to them.:tiphat:

Judas Jones on the other hand... will be doing tripple toe loops skating hell before that muff-hugga gets a subatomic particle of respect from MY blagg-azz Duck him!

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 01:17 PM
Alex Dunlap ‏@AlexDunlapNFL
Ravens gotta be nervous as hell w/ the idea of making Flacco-14th in 2012 yds,15th in TDs behind Fitzpatrick/Freeman-highest paid NFL player

DEFINE ELITE. "Elite in the NFL means, at its most lenient, the top 10 percent of players at the position. Of 32 starting quarterbacks, "elite" would refer to just three. No sane person would take Joe Flacco over Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees right now. (For the future, sure, but not for next season). Joe Flacco is not elite. Only three QBs are ever elite in a given season. It's just simple logic.''
-- From Jon Miller, Currituck, N.C.

:goodpost: This is the POINT of my initial post. Thank you sir. Handswarmer WOULD pick Flacco over the three others you mentioned.

HoustonFrog
02-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Consider something. Vonte Leech and Bernard Pollard are both former Texans. Go back over my post and see if I've called either of them "Judas", traitors or anything else disparaging. Don't waste your time. I haven't. They are class acts and as a Texans/Steeler fan I BEGRUDGINGLY tip my hat to them.:tiphat:

Judas Jones on the other hand... will be doing tripple toe loops skating hell before that muff-hugga gets a subatomic particle of respect from MY blagg-azz Duck him!

How is a guy a "Judas" when he is cut and goes and gets a job and does well?If anything be peeved at the coaching not getting the best out of the guy or maybe a change of scenery helped.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 01:32 PM
You are officially the first person I have ever seen online posting on a non divisional rival fan site during your victory parade. Draw your own conclusions on what that looks like.

Wow- fans of the other 30 teams are so happy you have been tracking that stat over the years, freeing them up to have other things to do


Like drink Purple Passsion drinks- that leave a RING.....

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 01:34 PM
Alex Dunlap ‏@AlexDunlapNFL
Ravens gotta be nervous as hell w/ the idea of making Flacco-14th in 2012 yds,15th in TDs behind Fitzpatrick/Freeman-highest paid NFL player

DEFINE ELITE. "Elite in the NFL means, at its most lenient, the top 10 percent of players at the position. Of 32 starting quarterbacks, "elite" would refer to just three. No sane person would take Joe Flacco over Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees right now. (For the future, sure, but not for next season). Joe Flacco is not elite. Only three QBs are ever elite in a given season. It's just simple logic.''
-- From Jon Miller, Currituck, N.C.

By that definition, I am sure I could find at least 5 stats that Flacco is top 10 in...so I think very little about the stats because I can manipulate them to say anything.

Flacco beat Brees in 2010, Manning and Brady (2 times) in succession in 2012-13.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 01:36 PM
Consider something. Vonte Leech and Bernard Pollard are both former Texans. Go back over my post and see if I've called either of them "Judas", traitors or anything else disparaging. Don't waste your time. I haven't. They are class acts and as a Texans/Steeler fan I BEGRUDGINGLY tip my hat to them.:tiphat:

Judas Jones on the other hand... !

I never said anything about those guys but I do love me some Jacoby

toronto
02-05-2013, 01:39 PM
Wow- fans of the other 30 teams are so happy you have been tracking that stat over the years, freeing them up to have other things to do


Like drink Purple Passsion drinks- that leave a RING.....

Internet yawn. Have fun.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 01:49 PM
:goodpost: This is the POINT of my initial post. Thank you sir. Handswarmer WOULD pick Flacco over the three others you mentioned.

Of course I would- all the yards they threw for ddn't get them crapola....Manning hasn't won in 5 years, Brady in 9 years nd Brees hasn't won in 3 years....

Joe has been unleashed since Cameron was let go....

CretorFrigg
02-05-2013, 01:50 PM
I never said anything about those guys but I do love me some Jacoby

Did you see that muff Jacoby made when attempting to return the punt? You guys were lucky the punter outkicked the return team. That could've been really bad for you guys if the gunners ran just a little bit faster.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Internet yawn. Have fun.

Believe me I am all about the fun

MistaRed
02-05-2013, 01:53 PM
You can tell who actually watches games and just watches highlights on ESPN. The fact that David Carr even gets mentioned when bringing up Flacco is laughable.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 03:08 PM
How is a guy a "Judas" when he is cut and goes and gets a job and does well?If anything be peeved at the coaching not getting the best out of the guy or maybe a change of scenery helped.

:thinking: So it's not the Leeeeeeeeast bit suspicious that the team whom benefitted from his "juggling" act
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif


via a trip to the AFC championship picked him up? I thought you picked up the free agents whose brilliant play HINDERED you not those whose sucky play HELPED you. I.E if Brady says "F Belecheat. I'm DONE with the Patriots" and becomes a free agent the Texans would be wise to offer him damn near ANYTHING.

Idiocy on the other hand would be picking up a free agent kicker who when he faced them shanked EVERY kick over 30 yards including one which could have delivered the game to his team.


Hey Judas Jones aka Jacoby Iscariot found a home and now has a stupor bowl ring. Had he the wisdom to NOT try to catch a football with a defender stading DIRECTLY in front on him,
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif

maybe he would have gotten one last year...and Mr. Andre Johnson might have one too. That's all I'm sayin'.

Dread-Head
02-05-2013, 03:14 PM
Of course I would- all the yards they threw for ddn't get them crapola....Manning hasn't won in 5 years, Brady in 9 years nd Brees hasn't won in 3 years....

Joe has been unleashed since Cameron was let go....

:thinking: Uh...Brady was in the Superbowl last year brough-ham...and this is the first time in a LONG time that your Carrion gave him a much needed a$$-whipping. If memory serves me he went last year after beating up on your carrion. You're getting a bit ahead of yourself man. Say what you want about Thomasina Brady, but she took her team to FIVE Superbowls and won THREE of them. Flacco's been to one. Your team's amazing defense is why they are consistently in the playoffs. You could replace Flacco with Chaim Abromowitz an asthmatic 14 year old from Temple Emanuel HS in Flushing, Queens, NY and do roughly the same thing. He's got no reason to be conceited...he aint that great. The man is an "adequate" QB on a team with a BRILLIANT defense.

handswarmer
02-05-2013, 03:45 PM
:cricket: :thinking: Uh...Brady was in the Superbowl last year brough-ham...and this is the first time in a LONG time that your Carrion gave him a much needed a$$-whipping. If memory serves me he went last year after beating up on your carrion. You're getting a bit ahead of yourself man. Say what you want about Thomasina Brady, but she took her team to FIVE Superbowls and won THREE of them. .

Uh Brough-ham; re-read what I wrote- "Brady hasn't won (A Super Bowl) in 9 years)"...Brady went to the SB because a crap WR couldn't hold on to a pass a stinkin' kicker shanked a 32 yd FG...


Flacco's been to one. Your team's amazing defense is why they are consistently in the playoffs. You could replace Flacco with Chaim Abromowitz an asthmatic 14 year old from Temple Emanuel HS in Flushing, Queens, NY and do roughly the same thing. He's got no reason to be conceited...he aint that great. The man is an "adequate" QB on a team with a BRILLIANT defense.

This part is so full of stupid I cannot even begin to formulate a reply....:cricket:

bOODRO87
02-05-2013, 04:03 PM
Geez, what an interesting thread. Some of you.. Just wow.

How do you top 11 or 12 TDs and zero INTs? Flacco just schooled every defense in the playoffs. He earned his pay check unlike Schaub.

silvrhand
02-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Geez, what an interesting thread. Some of you.. Just wow.

How do you top 11 or 12 TDs and zero INTs? Flacco just schooled every defense in the playoffs. He earned his pay check unlike Schaub.

Agreed, some sour grapes going on around here. Flacco won, and drove his team to the win, cause the defense wasn't playing all that hot in the superbowl, that's for sure.

Goatcheese
02-05-2013, 08:09 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby.gif


Still seems like that should have been a penalty. The returner has the opportunity to catch the ball until it hits the ground and the defender interfered with him.

HJam72
02-05-2013, 09:31 PM
Flacco just had a very Joe Montana-like playoff run, ending with becoming the SB MVP. I can, for now, question whether he's really that good or just had a great run at just the right time, but I can't say he hasn't played like a superstar when it counted. Sure like to see Schaub do that, even if we go in as a Wild-Card team, but it's hard to imagine him actually doing it.

Vinny
02-05-2013, 09:48 PM
Flacco just had a very Joe Montana-like playoff run, ending with becoming the SB MVP. I can, for now, question whether he's really that good or just had a great run at just the right time, but I can't say he hasn't played like a superstar when it counted. Sure like to see Schaub do that, even if we go in as a Wild-Card team, but it's hard to imagine him actually doing it.If Lee Evans didn't drop the winning pass in the end zone last year he is probably in his second consecutive SB to boot. It was a beautiful pass (http://deadspin.com/5878309/did-lee-evans-catch-a-game+winning-touchdown-for-the-ravens) (watch the video).

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2012/01/cf1eb76680efb4b4dcb0a2b92d58d30a.jpg

chicagotexan2
02-05-2013, 11:48 PM
Why not? I can get love from the 400,000 people present....they just shut the Stadium gates- 100,000 plus in there right now...only seats 70,000.....headed to the bar....gonna have a "Jacoby Special"- its a purple Grape Vodka and Tonic drink that leaves a Ring! Hee hee hee

Well try not to be as stupid as the drinks namesake a take taxi home instead getting a DUI like JaDopey did.

As far as flacco goes I thought he was a dud thru out hus careers but he stepped up BIgTime when it mattered most. He's gonna cash in big time. Good for him he earned it. I wouldn't put him in manning or Brady's class but he's champion just like they were.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 07:19 AM
Flacco just had a very Joe Montana-like playoff run, ending with becoming the SB MVP. I can, for now, question whether he's really that good or just had a great run at just the right time, but I can't say he hasn't played like a superstar when it counted. Sure like to see Schaub do that, even if we go in as a Wild-Card team, but it's hard to imagine him actually doing it.

The elimination of Cam Cameron from calling theplays allowed th ball to be in Joe's hands at he nd of the seaon. Look at the playcalling and results since Caldwell took over the playcalling. I throw out the 1st Denver game because it was Caldwells 1st game and he only had 6 days to prepare. After that he and Joe were lights out.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 07:25 AM
Well try not to be as stupid as the drinks namesake a take taxi home instead getting a DUI like JaDopey did.

As far as flacco goes I thought he was a dud thru out hus careers but he stepped up BIgTime when it mattered most. He's gonna cash in big time. Good for him he earned it. I wouldn't put him in manning or Brady's class but he's champion just like they were.

Ididn't drive down; my buddy did. We stayed till about 7pm and let after the traffic died down. We ate dinner and watched the NFL Network all day long. Place was packed with Ravens fans all day long too....a couple of thepractice squad guys came in and acted all big-time...funny to watch people slobber all over them.

Joe had dud games for sure; just when you see him drive 98 yds vs the Steelers in Pittsburgh on SNF fr the win with :08 seconds left, he goes out and lays an egg vs Jacksonville on MNF the following week, losin to a bottom feeder. I honestly believe it was Cameron holdinghim back; his repoire with Caldwell is unreal....and I do not necessarily believe he is ther yet with anning and Brady because of ther body of work, but he did beat Brady the last three times and beat Manning in his house tis year.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2013, 08:42 AM
The worst part about Dread's argument, besides minimizing the accomplishment, is the idea that the D just bails him out.

Total Defense-Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs--8th out of 12

Rushing Yards:

Season 20th
Playoffs 7th out of 12


Passing Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs 9th of 12

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 10:40 AM
The worst part about Dread's argument, besides minimizing the accomplishment, is the idea that the D just bails him out


Had the D allowed SF to score there at the end, on the goal line, it wouldnt be any different than last year & we'd be talking about him as much as we are talking about Kaepernick.

toronto
02-06-2013, 11:06 AM
Had the D allowed SF to score there at the end, on the goal line, it wouldnt be any different than last year & we'd be talking about him as much as we are talking about Kaepernick.

Had I picked different lotto numbers last Saturday my wife could quit her job search too.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Had I picked different lotto numbers last Saturday my wife could quit her job search too.

Doesn't change the fact that the defense bailed them out.

toronto
02-06-2013, 11:18 AM
Doesn't change the fact that the defense bailed them out.

That defense gave up almost 500 yards and nearly lost a 22 point lead. The man had a lights out post season and earned that ring. Vinnys point about that Lee Evans drop, forget he act that Billy Cundiff blew a chip shot to send to OT...and we may be talking about a 2 time champ for all we know, rendering this thread completely moot.

I never give a raven his due unless its deserved. I hate the fkn team. In his case, he's earned it. Elite? Dunno. But way up there? Yes.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2013, 11:22 AM
Doesn't change the fact that the defense bailed them out.

You're kidding right? His argument was that the Ravens D is so dominant every year that being QB is easy. The stats I posted and games this year and in playoffs prove otherwise. Taking one series and saying "not true" is beyond ridiculous....especially after losing a 3 TD lead.

That defense gave up almost 500 yards and nearly lost a 22 point lead. The man had a lights out post season and earned that ring. Vinnys point about that Lee Evans drop, forget he act that Billy Cundiff blew a chip shot to send to OT...and we may be talking about a 2 time champ for all we know, rendering this thread completely moot.

I never give a raven his due unless its deserved. I hate the fkn team. In his case, he's earned it. Elite? Dunno. But way up there? Yes.

Beat me to it

Playoffs
02-06-2013, 11:32 AM
The spoils of victory...

Joe Flacco's agent told CNBC that the Super Bowl's Most Valuable Player should be the highest-paid quarterback in the NFL. That means Flacco would command more than the Saints' Drew Brees, who is earning $20 million per season.

Here is Flacco's case for why he should get paid more than every quarterback in the league:http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/65366/making-the-case-for-joe-flaccos-demands

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 11:32 AM
That defense gave up almost 500 yards and nearly lost a 22 point lead. The man had a lights out post season and earned that ring. Vinnys point about that Lee Evans drop, forget he act that Billy Cundiff blew a chip shot to send to OT...and we may be talking about a 2 time champ for all we know, rendering this thread completely moot.

I never give a raven his due unless its deserved. I hate the fkn team. In his case, he's earned it. Elite? Dunno. But way up there? Yes.

I'm just arguing the point. Not taking anything away from Flacco. He played very well last year & should have been in the Super Bowl 10 weeks ago we were debating who was better, flacco os Schaub. Had he lost in the Super Bowl it would have been the same thing. Nobody cares abound the loser.

Had the Ravens D not nutted up on the goal line, nobody would be talking Flacco today & nobody would think he had management bent over.

toronto
02-06-2013, 01:15 PM
I'm just arguing the point. Not taking anything away from Flacco. He played very well last year & should have been in the Super Bowl 10 weeks ago we were debating who was better, flacco os Schaub. Had he lost in the Super Bowl it would have been the same thing. Nobody cares abound the loser.

Had the Ravens D not nutted up on the goal line, nobody would be talking Flacco today & nobody would think he had management bent over.

look you can argue...but I would counter argue that say Lee Evans holds onto that pass. They win it all last year vs the Giants. He never gets franchised and gets his big deal after the SB last year...then he repeats his year. He is suddenly in the pantheon conversation reserved for only truly great QBs..as one hat repeated as champ, which is very rare in the NFL.

The what ifs are everywhere.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:16 PM
:cricket:

Uh Brough-ham; re-read what I wrote- "Brady hasn't won (A Super Bowl) in 9 years)"...Brady went to the SB because a crap WR couldn't hold on to a pass a stinkin' kicker shanked a 32 yd FG...

And PRIOR to this one...when was the last time your Ravens PLAYED in one? ASK ANY football fan outside of Maryland if they had a choice between Tom Brady as their QB or Joltin' Joe Flacco, Flacco would lose UNANIMOUSLY. Brady LOST his last two trips to the Superbowl to Eli Manning, but unlike Joe Flacco and the Baltimore Ravens...he was IN the SUPERBOWL rather than watching it from his couch. Last year when Thomasina LOST her 2nd Superbowl in FIVE TRIPS. What was Joe Flacco doing...I mean OTHER than routing for the Giants? Please don't play the "The Patriots only won..." card pal. Your team was offsides for the bulk of the the superbowl they just "won" and in San Francisco's last offensive stand defensive Pass Interference and HOLDING were ignored on consecutive plays. And the fact that one of your DBs shoved an official and wasn't ejected forfiets your right to play the "victim" card. Like it or not, last year the Patriots were the last team standing in the AFC.
Winning 3 out of 5 puts Brady (as much as I LOATHE the Son of a 3itch) up there with Elway who went to SIX and won two. He's a fierce competitor and a great athlete. Joe Flacco is a mediocre QB on a team with a BRILLIANT defense. DEAL WITH IT!


This part is so full of stupid I cannot even begin to formulate a reply....:cricket:

:thinking: Accepting the truth bothers you? Be a bit more pragmatic. Try some simple math problems to relax. Here's one:

Great Defense
+ Great Running back
+ Great Receiver
+ Mediocre QB
+ Commissioner who is a total fan of a retiring player
+ Blind referees
= :trophy:

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm just arguing the point. Not taking anything away from Flacco. He played very well last year & should have been in the Super Bowl 10 weeks ago we were debating who was better, flacco os Schaub. Had he lost in the Super Bowl it would have been the same thing. Nobody cares abound the loser.

Had the Ravens D not nutted up on the goal line, nobody would be talking Flacco today & nobody would think he had management bent over.

(cough)passinterferenceandholdingonconsecutiveplay srefsdidn'tcall!

Luv_ya_blue
02-06-2013, 01:21 PM
(cough)passinterferenceandholdingonconsecutiveplay srefsdidn'tcall!

and...

(sneeze) defensiveoffsidesonatleastthreedifferentplaysthatd idn'tgetcalled!

HoustonFrog
02-06-2013, 01:21 PM
And PRIOR to this one...when was the last time your Ravens PLAYED in one? ASK ANY football fan outside of Maryland if they had a choice between Tom Brady as their QB or Joltin' Joe Flacco, Flacco would lose UNANIMOUSLY. Brady LOST his last two trips to the Superbowl to Eli Manning, but unlike Joe Flacco and the Baltimore Ravens...he was IN the SUPERBOWL rather than watching it from his couch. Last year when Thomasina LOST her 2nd Superbowl in FIVE TRIPS. What was Joe Flacco doing...I mean OTHER than routing for the Giants? Please don't play the "The Patriots only won..." card pal. Your team was offsides for the bulk of the the superbowl they just "won" and in San Francisco's last offensive stand defensive Pass Interference and HOLDING were ignored on consecutive plays. And the fact that one of your DBs shoved an official and wasn't ejected forfiets your right to play the "victim" card. Like it or not, last year the Patriots were the last team standing in the AFC.
Winning 3 out of 5 puts Brady (as much as I LOATHE the Son of a 3itch) up there with Elway who went to SIX and won two. He's a fierce competitor and a great athlete. Joe Flacco is a mediocre QB on a team with a BRILLIANT defense. DEAL WITH IT!




:thinking: Accepting the truth bothers you? Be a bit more pragmatic. Try some simple math problems to relax. Here's one:

Great Defense
+ Great Running back
+ Great Receiver
+ Mediocre QB
+ Commissioner who is a total fan of a retiring player
+ Blind referees
= :trophy:

Again, strike your great defense claim...read the last posts above and on previous page and strike the conspiracies. This just looks foolish with no rational thought.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:22 PM
Still seems like that should have been a penalty. The returner has the opportunity to catch the ball until it hits the ground and the defender interfered with him.

They way I learned it...the second ANY part of the receiver's body touches the football you can light him up. If one of his fingernails touches the ball...SHOWTIME (kablammo!)

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:29 PM
Again, strike your great defense claim...read the last posts above and on previous page and strike the conspiracies. This just looks foolish with no rational thought.

Atlanta has a great defense and had the BEST record in the NFL this season. SanFrancisco's offense came back on them too. You're acting as if the offense that Raven's defense faced was from Ryan Middle School. They CLEARLY weren't.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:29 PM
and...

(sneeze) defensiveoffsidesonatleastthreedifferentplaysthatd idn'tgetcalled!

Thank you reverend. I thought I was simply being an "irrational" conspiracy theorist.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 01:38 PM
Again, strike your great defense claim...read the last posts above and on previous page and strike the conspiracies. This just looks foolish with no rational thought.

Please do not bring logic to a delusional rant!


PS- :bravo:

HoustonFrog
02-06-2013, 01:43 PM
Atlanta has a great defense and had the BEST record in the NFL this season. SanFrancisco's offense came back on them too. You're acting as if the offense that Raven's defense faced was from Ryan Middle School. They CLEARLY weren't.

AGAIN,..look at playoff numbers too. Not a dominant D. Not close. The Cowboys racked up a record 229 rushing yards on them this year. Not the same D and not a valid point at all. Just like the PI call. Look at the different replays. Crabtree had the guys jersey and helmet and was pushing. The ball landed 5 yards out of bounds. Good no call. Don't let hate cloud any sense of reality. Flacco had a record playoffs vs the top 3 teams in the league and had been doing this for 7 games total. He was a drop away last year. He isn't great every game, he isn't elite but downplaying what he did and has done makes zero sense. Just like calling Jacoby a Judas. Judas betrayed someone close to him when he was still "with them." Jesus didn't cut him from the apostles where he excelled as a preacher elsewhere. Jacoby did well where he went. Be mad at the Texans for not teaching their players right.

Total Defense-Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs--8th out of 12

Rushing Yards:

Season 20th
Playoffs 7th out of 12


Passing Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs 9th of 12

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:47 PM
Please do not bring logic to a "delusional" rant!


PS- :bravo:


:thinking: In YOUR mind's eye...Joe Flacco is a SUPERIOR QUARTERBACK to BOTH Tom Brady & Payton Manning. :headhurts: and I'm the one who's "Delusional?!"

Muff-hugga If nothing else I have to give you mad props on your ability to type so legibly with one hand whilst obviously cradling your MASSIVE CRACK PIPE with the other.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 01:48 PM
And PRIOR to this one...when was the last time your Ravens PLAYED in one? ASK ANY football fan outside of Maryland if they had a choice between Tom Brady as their QB or Joltin' Joe Flacco, Flacco would lose UNANIMOUSLY. Brady LOST his last two trips to the Superbowl to Eli Manning, but unlike Joe Flacco and the Baltimore Ravens...he was IN the SUPERBOWL rather than watching it from his couch. Last year when Thomasina LOST her 2nd Superbowl in FIVE TRIPS. What was Joe Flacco doing...I mean OTHER than routing for the Giants? Please don't play the "The Patriots only won..." card pal. Your team was offsides for the bulk of the the superbowl they just "won" and in San Francisco's last offensive stand defensive Pass Interference and HOLDING were ignored on consecutive plays. And the fact that one of your DBs shoved an official and wasn't ejected forfiets your right to play the "victim" card. Like it or not, last year the Patriots were the last team standing in the AFC.
Winning 3 out of 5 puts Brady (as much as I LOATHE the Son of a 3itch) up there with Elway who went to SIX and won two. He's a fierce competitor and a great athlete. Joe Flacco is a mediocre QB on a team with a BRILLIANT defense. DEAL WITH IT!




:thinking: Accepting the truth bothers you? Be a bit more pragmatic. Try some simple math problems to relax. Here's one:

Great Defense
+ Great Running back
+ Great Receiver
+ Mediocre QB
+ Commissioner who is a total fan of a retiring player
+ Blind referees
= :trophy:

Crack is a terrible thing. The only thing you got right which is indisputable, is that Carey Williams should have been ejected for shoving the referee- bet he gets at least a $75,000 fine.


Other than that, the rest of your crap, er, post, is just sour grapes and whining. You are pisseed that a team you destroyed in the regular season went and beat the team that you got pummeled by 2x in the regular seaon. An you and a lot of oter Texans fans are bitter, thinking that you could have beaten us at home in the Playoffs. Sorry dude, that Ravens team wasn't going to lose to anyone this post-season.

Flacco did what Brady, Manning 2x, Rodgers, Brees and Baby Ben couldn't: he tied Joe Montana for the most TD's and zero INTS in a postseason.....Flacco is in the Top 6-8 of QB's in the NFL- the actuall rank doesn't concern me. Either if he is "ELITE" or not.....who really cares? Look at your boy Schaub- guady numbers out the wazoo; where is he in the big games? Crappy his pants?



What does matter to me is that he wins, is successful, and the team makes the playoffs and wins in the post season.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 01:50 PM
AGAIN,..look at playoff numbers too. Not a dominant D. Not close. The Cowboys racked up a record 229 rushing yards on them this year. Not the same D and not a valid point at all. Just like the PI call. Look at the different replays. Crabtree had the guys jersey and helmet and was pushing. The ball landed 5 yards out of bounds. Good no call. Don't let hate cloud any sense of reality. Flacco had a record playoffs vs the top 3 teams in the league and had been doing this for 7 games total. He was a drop away last year. He isn't great every game, he isn't elite but downplaying what he did and has done makes zero sense. Just like calling Jacoby a Judas. Judas betrayed someone close to him when he was still "with them." Jesus didn't cut him from the apostles where he "excelled" as a preacher elsewhere. Jacoby did well where he went. Be mad at the Texans for not teaching their players right.

Total Defense-Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs--8th out of 12

Rushing Yards:

Season 20th
Playoffs 7th out of 12


Passing Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs 9th of 12


"Excelled"? Woah...pump your breaks. One good season isn't "excelling" His overall numbers are down from what they were when he was here.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 01:50 PM
:thinking: In YOUR mind's eye...Joe Flacco is a SUPERIOR QUARTERBACK to BOTH Tom Brady & Payton Manning. :headhurts: and I'm the one who's "Delusional?!"

Muff-hugga If nothing else I have to give you mad props on your ability to type so legibly with one hand whilst obviously cradling your MASSIVE CRACK PIPE with the other.

Please find where I wrote "Joe Flacco is SUPERIOR to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning"


Pssst- he did beat both of them in THEIR house during the playoffs.....:boogie:

HoustonFrog
02-06-2013, 01:56 PM
"Excelled"? Woah...pump your breaks. One good season isn't "excelling" His overall numbers are down from what they were when he was here.

Your missing the point. I was just saying that he didn't get cut and go elsewhere and help them in a big situation or excel. He was a top/Pro Bowl returner this year and showed up in the playoffs and SB. Doesn't make him a traitor for getting work when he was out of work.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:10 PM
Crack is a terrible thing. The only thing you got right which is indisputable, is that Carey Williams should have been ejected for shoving the referee- bet he gets at least a $75,000 fine.


Other than that, the rest of your crap, er, post, is just sour grapes and whining. 1. You are pisseed that a team you destroyed in the regular season went and beat the team that you got pummeled by 2x in the regular seaon. An you and a lot of oter Texans fans are bitter, thinking that you could have beaten us at home in the Playoffs.

Okay. 3itching ME out personally is one thing. I've no issue you calling me out given the nature of this thread and I have a thick skin & accept the full brunt of your ire, but the board where you're trashing OTHER Texans fans is still called "Texans Talk". Do yourself a huge favor and limit your attacks TO me on this one. Within the ranks of this board some die hard Texans fans are agreeing with you on some of your stuff. Don't say anything that might lose you some friends.

Sorry dude, that Ravens team wasn't going to lose to anyone this post-season.

YOUR OPINION. Simply repeating it over and over won't make it true.


Flacco did what Brady, Manning 2x, Rodgers, Brees and Baby Ben couldn't: he tied Joe Montana for the most TD's and zero INTS in a postseason.....

Brady has three rings in five trips.
The Manning brothers have three between them
Montana has FOUR
Ben has 2 out of three.

Joe Flacco is not the superior much less the EQUAL of any of the QBs YOU just mentioned. You might as well say that Larry Brown is as great a DB as Deion Sanders because he got three interceptions in the ONE Superbowl in which he played and got MVP.


Flacco is in the Top 6-8 of QB's in the NFL-

:thinking: What color is the sky in your world?

the actuall rank doesn't concern me. Either if he is "ELITE" or not.....who really cares? Look at your boy Schaub- guady numbers out the wazoo; where is he in the big games? Crappy his pants?

:lol: Son, If you think you're going to offend me by dissin' Matt Schaub...you ARE on drugs. There is a long line of Texans fans on this board who do the same thing DAILY. Get in line to diss Schaub and wait your turn. I've been badmouthin' Dog Boy's back up since he came here from Atlanta. Maybe your carrion should make him a back up to the "greatest QB in NFL History" aka Joe Flacco so you can sing his praises if he ever lucks up and happens to catch mad breaks from an officiating crew that does acid before a game.


What does matter to me is that he wins, is successful, and the team makes the playoffs and wins in the post season.

"Wins?"...No bruh...WON. Relish this. It aint happening again.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:12 PM
Please find where I wrote "Joe Flacco is SUPERIOR to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning"


Pssst- he did beat both of them in THEIR house during the playoffs.....:boogie:

You're putting him on the same plane...he's not even close. BTW I HATE Tom Brady with a PASSION. Acknowleging that 3itches greatness leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:14 PM
Your missing the point. I was just saying that he didn't get cut and go elsewhere and help them in a big situation or excel. He was a top/Pro Bowl returner this year and showed up in the playoffs and SB. Doesn't make him a traitor for getting work when he was out of work.

Had he gone anywhere else I wouldn't have had a problem. The team whom he helped to knock us out of the playoffs however looks beyond suspicious to me. I've nothing but love and respect to Leach and Pollard in their new home but sorry...J.J. can kiss my muff-huggin' rectum.

bOODRO87
02-06-2013, 02:22 PM
Hahaha, this guy here...

12 TDs and 0 INT in the post season. That's great football play no matter who you root for. Flacco shined bright in the post season. It obviously upsets you.

Schaub will "Schaub" next season as usual. Bet on it.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:29 PM
Hahaha, this guy here...

12 TDs and 0 INT in the post season. That's great football play no matter who you root for. Flacco shined bright in the post season. It obviously upsets you.

Schaub will "Schaub" next season as usual. Bet on it.

Rookie...have a seat. Grown ups are talking. I'm messin' with Handswarmer...but he has my respect and has earned his right to bad mouth me in here. You haven't. Have a seat, you might learn something.

Signed,
"This Guy"

Luv_ya_blue
02-06-2013, 02:36 PM
Hahaha, this guy here...

12 TDs and 0 INT in the post season. That's great football play no matter who you root for. Flacco shined bright in the post season. It obviously upsets you.

Schaub will "Schaub" next season as usual. Bet on it.

Rookie...have a seat. Grown ups are talking. I'm messin' with Handswarmer...but he has my respect and has earned his right to bad mouth me in here. You haven't. Have a seat, you might learn something.

Signed,
"This Guy"
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6TSvH3KqciwEoYJzyGWK8PGmHjUn9p jZ-xLyKv7KDjDmght5ztp65jcMw

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6TSvH3KqciwEoYJzyGWK8PGmHjUn9p jZ-xLyKv7KDjDmght5ztp65jcMw

Sorry Reverend. I forgot.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 02:48 PM
Okay. 3itching ME out personally is one thing. I've no issue you calling me out given the nature of this thread and I have a thick skin & accept the full brunt of your ire, but the board where you're trashing OTHER Texans fans is still called "Texans Talk". Do yourself a huge favor and limit your attacks TO me on this one. Within the ranks of this board some die hard Texans fans are agreeing with you on some of your stuff. Don't say anything that might lose you some friends.



YOUR OPINION. Simply repeating it over and over won't make it true.




Brady has three rings in five trips.
The Manning brothers have three between them
Montana has FOUR
Ben has 2 out of three.

Joe Flacco is not the superior much less the EQUAL of any of the QBs YOU just mentioned. You might as well say that Larry Brown is as great a DB as Deion Sanders because he got three interceptions in the ONE Superbowl in which he played and got MVP.




:thinking: What color is the sky in your world?



:lol: Son, If you think you're going to offend me by dissin' Matt Schaub...you ARE on drugs. There is a long line of Texans fans on this board who do the same thing DAILY. Get in line to diss Schaub and wait your turn. I've been badmouthin' Dog Boy's back up since he came here from Atlanta. Maybe your carrion should make him a back up to the "greatest QB in NFL History" aka Joe Flacco so you can sing his praises if he ever lucks up and happens to catch mad breaks from an officiating crew that does acid before a game.




"Wins?"...No bruh...WON. Relish this. It aint happening again.

Obviously there is an issue since you feel I "Called you out"....not really. The crack remark was humor. And saying that other Texans fans are whining is not trashing them;especially in the part ofthe Message Board entitled "The National Football League" where YOU started th thread!!!!...... trashing them is denigrating their fandom, questioning thier loyalty, etc. etc...so relax buddy....I did none of that.


Alot of national media types agree with my opinion- Im cool with that

My sky right now in Ravens Country is Purple with a Silver Lombardi lining.....

Son? My dad died 14 years ago- no need to make it personal. I detect that you are black since you used the term "blagg azzz" or seomthing like that...you would be offended if I used the term son, so please do not use it on me.

Other than that, you seem to blow right over the documented achievements of Flacco and ignore what some of your own fellow Texans fans are saying to you about Flacco. Just as you ignore those that blow smoke up Schaub's rear end...

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 02:49 PM
Had he gone anywhere else I wouldn't have had a problem. The team whom he helped to knock us out of the playoffs however looks beyond suspicious to me. I've nothing but love and respect to Leach and Pollard in their new home but sorry...J.J. can kiss my muff-huggin' rectum.

The Ravens targeted JJ- they saw the potential. They knew Harbaugh and Rossberg could coach him up.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 02:58 PM
Obviously there is an issue since you feel I "Called you out"....not really. The crack remark was humor. And saying that other Texans fans are whining is not trashing them;especially in the part ofthe Message Board entitled "The National Football League" where YOU started th thread!!!!...... trashing them is denigrating their fandom, questioning thier loyalty, etc. etc...so relax buddy....I did none of that.


Alot of national media types agree with my opinion- Im cool with that

The same national media that regards Texan wins NOT as wins, but as "meltdowns" by other teams from which we happened to benefit? Yeah the national media doesn't get alot of love on this MB. Dude.
I respect that you're loyal to your team and are steadfast in your opinion, but this entire thread is based on MY Opinion and I stand by MY Opinion. For what it's worth I'm a Texans fan AND a Steeler fan. While I can BEGRUDGINGLY give Ray Ray & Reed their due and tip my hat to Bolden, Rice, Leach and Pollard...Flacco and J.J. gets NO love. Sorry brother. It's not gonna happen. But hell, if we all thought the same way the world would be a seriously boring place.

My sky right now in Ravens Country is Purple with a Silver Lombardi lining.....

Given that your team got the greatest title in sports less than three days ago more than understandable.

Son? My dad died 14 years ago- no need to make it personal. I detect that you are black since you used the term "blagg azzz" or seomthing like that...you would be offended if I used the term son, so please do not use it on me.

Let me state for the record that I'm far from malicious and WOULD NOT attack someone's family. I find that reprehensible. I used the term "Son" as I assumed I'm older than you. I've no issue with my elders (regardless of their race) calling me "son", but that's just me. I can assure you I meant no disrespect and the members of this board can vouch for me in that regard...well except for Bill. But I find it funny that you "detect" that I'm black from context clues rather than the photo of the masked figure with the dreadlocks.

Other than that, you seem to blow right over the documented achievements of Flacco and ignore what some of your own fellow Texans fans are saying to you about Flacco. Just as you ignore those that blow smoke up Schaub's rear end...

Let me state unequivocally that Flacco impresses me slightly more than Schaub does, but that being said, I've had bowel movements that have impressed me considerably more than EITHER of those two cats and wager that the only way EITHER of them will EVER get to the Hall of Fame is if they're driving around Ohio and get hopelessly LOST.

Do I IGNORE my friends in here who say GOOD things about Schaub? Hardly, but they KNOW me and know how I feel. I ignore the threads that sing Schaub's praises because these guys KNOW I think he should return to being a back up.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 03:16 PM
The same national media that regards Texan wins NOT as wins, but as "meltdowns" by other teams from which we happened to benefit? Yeah the national media doesn't get alot of love on this MB. Dude.
I respect that you're loyal to your team and are steadfast in your opinion, but this entire thread is based on MY Opinion and I stand by MY Opinion. If we all thought the same way the world would be a seriously boring place.



Given that your team got the greatest title in sports less than three days ago more than understandable.



Let me state for the record that I'm far from malicious and WOULD NOT attack someone's family. I find that reprehensible. I used the term "Son" as I assumed I'm older than you. I've no issue with my elders (regardless of their race) calling me "son", but that's just me. I can assure you I meant no disrespect and the members of this board can vouch for me in that regard...well except for Bill. But I find it funny that you "detect" that I'm black from context clues rather than the photo of the masked figure with the dreadlocks.



Let me state unequivocally that Flacco impresses me slightly more than Schaub does, but that being said, I've had bowel movements that have impressed me considerably more than EITHER of those two cats and wager that the only way EITHER of them will EVER get to the Hall of Fame is if they're driving around Ohio and get hopelessly LOST.

Do I IGNORE my friends in here who say GOOD things about Schaub? Hardly, but they KNOW me and know how I feel. I ignore the threads that sing Schaub's praises because these guys KNOW I think he should return to being a back up.

YOUR opinion about Flacco is just that- yours. But it seems as if throughout this thread you have tried to dismiss his achievements. One cannot ignore the last 7 games of this season. I feel as if you are. His last 5 playoff games hve been pretty outstanding. He has beaten Brady twice this year, Manning bros 1 each and now the geat Colin Kaepernick (snicker)

I am glad you "got" my descriptive phrase...few did earlier....

I'm cool- I know you meant no harm. I just like a level playing field, so much better, dn't you think?

Flacco keeps up the last 7-8 weeks for the next 10 years, he can make the HoF easily.

Luv_ya_blue
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
YOUR opinion about Flacco is just that- yours. But it seems as if throughout this thread you have tried to dismiss his achievements. One cannot ignore the last 7 games of this season. I feel as if you are. His last 5 playoff games hve been pretty outstanding. He has beaten Brady twice this year, Manning bros 1 each and now the geat Colin Kaepernick (snicker)

I am glad you "got" my descriptive phrase...few did earlier....

I'm cool- I know you meant no harm. I just like a level playing field, so much better, dn't you think?

Flacco keeps up the last 7-8 weeks for the next 10 years, he can make the HoF easily.

Yup, and if a frog had wings...

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
A outside of Green Bay, NYC, San Fran, Philly, Boston and Dallas, every fan base feels as if the national media does 'fly by' reporting....

KC Chiefs fans feel even more isolated than you guys....

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
YOUR opinion about Flacco is just that- yours. But it seems as if throughout this thread you have tried to dismiss his achievements. One cannot ignore the last 7 games of this season. I feel as if you are. His last 5 playoff games hve been pretty outstanding. He has beaten Brady twice this year, Manning bros 1 each and now the geat Colin Kaepernick (snicker)

I am glad you "got" my descriptive phrase...few did earlier....

I'm cool- I know you meant no harm. I just like a level playing field, so much better, dn't you think?

Flacco keeps up the last 7-8 weeks for the next 10 years, he can make the HoF easily.

I was looking at his entire career...not this single season. For what's worth I was damned near excommunicated from the Steeler Nation for OPENLY cheering for your team to stop Thomasina in the Championship game.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Texans hoist the Lombardi in hopefully the near future, and as much as I hate the Ravens I'd rather see THEM win the damn title than to see EITHER Thomasina OR the Cowboys EVER win another one.

Dread-Head
02-06-2013, 03:26 PM
A outside of Green Bay, NYC, San Fran, Philly, Boston and Dallas, every fan base feels as if the national media does 'fly by' reporting....

KC Chiefs fans feel even more isolated than you guys....


Dallas? Are you KIDDING me? They get more press than ANYBODY shy of Brady and Belecheat. They're called "America's Team" and "Fabled Franchise" even when they have a losing season. I HATE those muff-huggas! My three favorite teams:


1. Texans

2. Steelers

3. WHOEVER is playing the Cowboys THIS WEEK! I hven't missed a cowboy game in 20 years!

Playoffs
02-06-2013, 04:01 PM
Ravens need to step up and pay Joe his $20 million per -- anything less would be a slap in the face after he brought them the SB trophy & MVP.


http://content9.flixster.com/photo/13/90/13/13901387_gal.jpghttp://adoptanegotiator.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/show-me-the-money.jpg
http://ocnnreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/joe-flacco-money.jpg

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Dallas? Are you KIDDING me? They get more press than ANYBODY shy of Brady and Belecheat. They're called "America's Team" and "Fabled Franchise" even when they have a losing season. I HATE those muff-huggas! My three favorite teams:


1. Texans

2. Steelers

3. WHOEVER is playing the Cowboys THIS WEEK! I hven't missed a cowboy game in 20 years!

What part of "Outside of" didn't you understand? Those franchises I listed get ALL the press drippings and nut nuzzleing....

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 05:05 PM
I was looking at his entire career...not this single season. For what's worth I was damned near excommunicated from the Steeler Nation for OPENLY cheering for your team to stop Thomasina in the Championship game.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Texans hoist the Lombardi in hopefully the near future, and as much as I hate the Ravens I'd rather see THEM win the damn title than to see EITHER Thomasina OR the Cowboys EVER win another one.

Thts where we are different- I do not hate.

I dislike Steelers fans general but I have a few friends who root Black and Yellow.

I have total respect for the Steelers team and organization. But Jim Nance just loves to wrap his tongue around Ben's, Whines Hard and Polamalu's nutzzz....

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
I was looking at his entire career...not this single season. For what's worth I was damned near excommunicated from the Steeler Nation for OPENLY cheering for your team to stop Thomasina in the Championship game.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Texans hoist the Lombardi in hopefully the near future, and as much as I hate the Ravens I'd rather see THEM win the damn title than to see EITHER Thomasina OR the Cowboys EVER win another one.

I am looking at the last few years- not his rookie year.

toronto
02-06-2013, 07:50 PM
Thts where we are different- I do not hate.

I dislike Steelers fans general but I have a few friends who root Black and Yellow.

I have total respect for the Steelers team and organization. But Jim Nance just loves to wrap his tongue around Ben's, Whines Hard and Polamalu's nutzzz....

His love of those three pales in comparison to his love of nature at Augusta in April.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 08:57 PM
look you can argue...but I would counter argue that say Lee Evans holds onto that pass. They win it all last year vs the Giants. He never gets franchised and gets his big deal after the SB last year...then he repeats his year. He is suddenly in the pantheon conversation reserved for only truly great QBs..as one hat repeated as champ, which is very rare in the NFL.

The what ifs are everywhere.

You're missing the point.

Flacco had played great in last year's play-offs, played great in the AFC Championship game but lost. Since he lost, nobody put much credence in how he played. Between September & January of the year after he had a great play off run, he was still considered in Schaub's tier.... not just by us.

The goof up last year wasn't even his goof up, it was Lee Evans... it was probably a bad call. Winning & losing clouds our judgement way too much, that's all I'm saying.

This year, instead of Lee Evans he had Jacoby Jones catching that ball in Denver & taking it for a touchdown that kept them alive. It was Jacoby Jones that came back caught that underthrown ball & then had the snap to get up & run. It was Jacoby Jones returning the opening kick of the second half for a TD & it was the defense that stopped the 49ers from winning the game....... but we remember how great Joe Flacco played.

So what are we going to say about Flacco next year? Between September & January when they go through what they go through & they need Flacco to carry them because the defense can't stop Brady? Or they lose 4 of their last 3? What if they don't make the play offs because they've got to play
1. Baltimore Ravens (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/2013-opponents-determined-for-every-nfl-team/) Home: Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, New York Jets, Houston Texans, Green Bay Packers, Minnesota Vikings

Away: Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, Denver Broncos, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions

11 tough games & Miami is going to win some games to.... Baltimore is going to pay him $20M/yr. Do you think Flacco can carry his team?

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 09:00 PM
His love of those three pales in comparison to his love of nature at Augusta in April.

You are correct- nance doesn't mind getting elbowed out of the way by Peter King, Dan Patrick and Bob Costas so he can run around Augusta and suck on Tiger's nutz....

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 09:02 PM
The what ifs are everywhere.

Again, the point was that someone said Dread was stuck in 2009 thinking the Ravens Defense bailed out Joe Flacco in 2012.

I simply said the defense won the 2012 Super Bowl on the goal line at the end of the game, had it gone differently, no one is talking about Joe Flacco.

I used Joe's great play off run of 2011 as evidence. No one was talking about Joe Flacco from September through December except to say he was so bad they fired the OC.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 09:04 PM
You're missing the point.

Flacco had played great in last year's play-offs, played great in the AFC Championship game but lost. Since he lost, nobody put much credence in how he played. Between September & January of the year after he had a great play off run, he was still considered in Schaub's tier.... not just by us.

The goof up last year wasn't even his goof up, it was Lee Evans... it was probably a bad call. Winning & losing clouds our judgement way too much, that's all I'm saying.

This year, instead of Lee Evans he had Jacoby Jones catching that ball in Denver & taking it for a touchdown that kept them alive. It was Jacoby Jones that came back caught that underthrown ball & then had the snap to get up & run. It was Jacoby Jones returning the opening kick of the second half for a TD & it was the defense that stopped the 49ers from winning the game....... but we remember how great Joe Flacco played.

So what are we going to say about Flacco next year? Between September & January when they go through what they go through & they need Flacco to carry them because the defense can't stop Brady? Or they lose 4 of their last 3? What if they don't make the play offs because they've got to play


11 tough games & Miami is going to win some games to.... Baltimore is going to pay him $20M/yr. Do you think Flacco can carry his team?

The defens gave up about 400 +/- yds a game in the playoffs. They just didn't break in the Red Zone.

And the Ravens offense score in the Red Zone. They scored from out of the Red Zone.

This team is changing the identity to an Offensive team; plus this team will look much different after FA....they're up against the cap big time. Alot of guys need to re-structure, Joe needs to get paid and then luck in the draft.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 09:06 PM
AGAIN,..look at playoff numbers too. Not a dominant D. Not close. The Cowboys racked up a record 229 rushing yards on them this year. Not the same D and not a valid point at all.

Except in the play offs, that D made Peyton Manning & Tom Brady look like Matt Schaub.

handswarmer
02-06-2013, 09:08 PM
Except in the play offs, that D made Peyton Manning & Tom Brady look like Matt Schaub.

Between the 20, Ravens d was porous

In the Red Zone they were as stiff as 18 yr old Marine on leave.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-06-2013, 10:11 PM
I used Joe's great play off run of 2011 as evidence. No one was talking about Joe Flacco from September through December except to say he was so bad they fired the OC.



What great playoff run? The reason no one talked about his 2011 playoffs is because he outplayed Tom Brady on the road and crapped his pants against us the week before in Baltimore. It was the same inconsistent Joe Flacco. Nothing to talk about there. This year, however, he took his game to the next level and showed great consistency after the firing of Cam Cameron.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:07 AM
What great playoff run? The reason no one talked about his 2011 playoffs is because he outplayed Tom Brady on the road and crapped his pants against us the week before in Baltimore. It was the same inconsistent Joe Flacco. Nothing to talk about there. This year, however, he took his game to the next level and showed great consistency after the firing of Cam Cameron.

Under Cam Cameron, Joe was inconsistent because of Cam; its apparent after Cam's firing. Excluding the first Denver game under Caldwell (6days after Cam was fired) Joe played 6 games including playoffs and SB.


Under Caldwell avgs:

20 of 34 for 283yds 58% 2.5 TDs .16INT Passer Rating of 110.7
(118 of 202 1703yds 15TDs 1INT over 6 games)

Under Cameron avgs:
21 of 34 for 248yds 60.8% 1.38TDs .69INT Passer Rating of 89.2
(268 of 447 3220yds 18TDs 9INTs over 13 games)

And I don't care for the ELITE title; what really is elite? Gimme a definition...

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 08:16 AM
And I don't care for the ELITE title; what really is elite? Gimme a definition...

Elite is whatever the guy arguing says it is, or isn't. One man says he's elite & backs it up with his reasons. Another man says he is not elite & provides his arguments.

It's the same as saying "best QBs in the league" After such a statement, you make your case. Around here, you can't use wins, & you can't use stats. The only thing that counts (since Schaub has done everything else) is wins in big games. That makes Flacco elite.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:30 AM
Elite is whatever the guy arguing says it is, or isn't. One man says he's elite & backs it up with his reasons. Another man says he is not elite & provides his arguments.

It's the same as saying "best QBs in the league" After such a statement, you make your case. Around here, you can't use wins, & you can't use stats. The only thing that counts (since Schaub has done everything else) is wins in big games. That makes Flacco elite.

Totally agree- it is opinion driven. ESPN tried to eliminate all doubt wit their QBR formula: it works to a degree but when you have a person 'weighing' plays as to a degree of difficulty, like in diving or gymnastics, it becomes subjective not OBJECTIVE.

Yet even Wins are subjective; was it defense scoring, a special teams play or a Running Back's all world performance?

Again, I could care less about 'elite'....I care about Wins....Flacco is our guy...and we have another Super Bowl trophy...

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 08:39 AM
Thts where we are different- I do not hate.

I dislike Steelers fans general but I have a few friends who root Black and Yellow.

I have total respect for the Steelers team and organization. But Jim Nance just loves to wrap his tongue around Ben's, Hines Ward and Polamalu's nutzzz....

1. Nance is a tool.

2. :thinking: Hines is the reason Ed Reed still wears that festive beard. That jaw just didn't heal right did it? Sorry, part of the reason I loved watching the Steelers & Ravens was to see Hines and Ed beat the crap out of each other. The fact that Hines retired made this years match ups NOT as fun for me. Without those two going at it, it was just a football game.

3. Polamaulu is a diety who elected to walk among us mere mortals to be the position of free saftey incarnate for the ages and to utterly define the position for generations to come...come to terms with it.

For the record my 2nd oldest Nephew is a Ravens fan...and he thinks Flacco is over rated.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 08:49 AM
And I don't care for the ELITE title; what really is elite? Gimme a definition...


Elite: /E/leet. adj. 1. Of or pretaining to a small and exclusive group. 2. Exceptional or better than average. 3. Viewed as superlative to one's peers.


While being a starting WB in the NFL is a very tiny fraternity and being there speaks volumes about how good one is as a college QB; however, of the 32 Teams in the NFL only maybe 4 guys can call be called elite. I'm just sayin'.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 08:52 AM
Again, the point was that someone said Dread was stuck in 2009 thinking the Ravens Defense bailed out Joe Flacco in 2012.

I simply said the defense won the 2012 Super Bowl on the goal line at the end of the game, had it gone differently, no one is talking about Joe Flacco.

I used Joe's great play off run of 2011 as evidence. No one was talking about Joe Flacco from September through December except to say he was so bad they fired the OC.

Quote me: "Flacco & the Ravens WON'T make it to the Superbowl next year. The 2013 Season will have it's ups and down and they'll make the playoffs, but this time next year we won't be talking about the Ravens' winning two in a row."

Feel free to chisel that in stone if you want. I don't think I'll be dining on crow this time next year.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:57 AM
1. Nance is a tool.Agreed

2. :thinking: Hines is the reason Ed Reed still wears that festive beard. That jaw just didn't heal right did it? Sorry, part of the reason I loved watching the Steelers & Ravens was to see Hines and Ed beat the crap out of each other. The fact that Hines retired made this years match ups NOT as fun for me. Without those two going at it, it was just a football game.Hines was forced to retire and while he played tough, he was a cheap shot.

3. Polamaulu is a diety who elected to walk among us mere mortals to be the position of free saftey incarnate for the ages and to utterly define the position for generations to come...come to terms with it.Lulu, as I call him, is overrated. He is OLD, SLOW and out of position frequently. If he is diety, he needs to have a last supper and go away

For the record my 2nd oldest Nephew is a Ravens fan...and he thinks Flacco is over rated. Your 2nd oldest Nephew is incorrect- who would he rather have? Tyrod Taylor? LOL

"n'uff said"

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 08:59 AM
Elite: /E/leet. adj. 1. Of or pretaining to a small and exclusive group. 2. Exceptional or better than average. 3. Viewed as superlative to one's peers.


While being a starting WB in the NFL is a very tiny fraternity and being there speaks volumes about how good one is as a college QB; however, of the 32 Teams in the NFL only maybe 4 guys can call be called elite. I'm just sayin'.

See? The definition said 'small and exclusive group" You limited it to four- you made it subjective. Why not 5, 8, 13 people?

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 09:01 AM
Quote me: "Flacco & the Ravens WON'T make it to the Superbowl next year. The 2013 Season will have it's ups and down and they'll make the playoffs, but this time next year we won't be talking about the Ravens' winning two in a row."

Feel free to chisel that in stone if you want. I don't think I'll be dining on crow this time next year.

WHO said anything about the 2013 Season?

I expect drastic changes on the Ravens team- look at all the Free Aents they need to sign/fit under the salary cap.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:14 AM
"n'uff said"

1. Hines wasn't a cheap shot artist. Hines was a receiver who knew how to block. Ed was a cheap shot artist who layed in hard blocks from the blind side one time too often and made a big half Korean enemy who when assigned to block elected to knock the piss out of Mr. Ed Reed as his way of saying not only can I give as good as I get, I can BEST you. He's the reason Ed simply does his JOB now rather than trying to deliver those ESPN Highlight reel hits he USED to.

2. We talking about the SAME Troy Polamalu who has been playing with a leg injury this season? How fast could YOU run if I hobbled you? (not that I'm implying that I would) The SAME Troy Polamalu whom Tom Brady says he keeps his eyes on whenever playing the Steelers as he is the conductor of that defense? Dude even a deminished Polamalu is better than Ed Reed. Both are getting into Canton on the first ballot, but Troy's had a MUCH better career. Oh or we talking about the same Troy Polamalu who got one of his homies to go to prison for a double murder which resulted from a bar fight that he ran from? Oh wait...that was Ray Lewis. My bad. Just ribbing you on that one.

3. My Nephew played DB his attitude is that defense wins titles.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:17 AM
WHO said anything about the 2013 Season?

I expect drastic changes on the Ravens team- look at all the Free Aents they need to sign/fit under the salary cap.

If Flacco gets his 20 mil a season he will sodomize the rest of the team under the cap. Also expect your offensive co-ordinator to be offered a head coaching job.

TEXANRED
02-07-2013, 09:17 AM
I would have said "Bubby Brister 2.0" or "Flacco 1.0" but some wouldn't have known what I meant.

Bubby Brister? Really? That's an insult to Bubby Brister.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2013, 09:22 AM
Except in the play offs, that D made Peyton Manning & Tom Brady look like Matt Schaub.

Wrong, look at my playoff stats again and where they were ranked in the playoffs. It's right there..they were near the bottom of the 12 teams in every category. Your theory doesn't work no matter the spin. The D made the last stop but that doesn't mean that Flacco didn't cover their tail for a majority of the playoff run. Please stop acting otherwise. You could say any defensive play in any game wins a game if you want to pick and chose but it doesn't bear out the facts of how mediocre to bad they were this year when the offense got rolling.

Total Defense-Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs--8th out of 12

Rushing Yards:

Season 20th
Playoffs 7th out of 12


Passing Yards:

Season 17th
Playoffs 9th of 12

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Elite: /E/leet. adj. 1. Of or pretaining to a small and exclusive group. 2. Exceptional or better than average. 3. Viewed as superlative to one's peers.


While being a starting WB in the NFL is a very tiny fraternity and being there speaks volumes about how good one is as a college QB; however, of the 32 Teams in the NFL only maybe 4 guys can call be called elite. I'm just sayin'.

See? The definition said 'small and exclusive group" You limited it to four- you made it subjective. Why not 5, 8, 13 people?

Basic math man. There are 32 teams in the NFL. All 32 of those can't be elite. 100% implies they ALL play at the same level and that's simply not true. Were that the case every game would end in a tie.

If 16 of those are elite we're saying that 50% of NFL QBs are elite which makes no sense.

8 elites out of 32 would be us saying 25% meet our definition. being in the top 25% is impressive but if there were 100 of us and you're in the top 25...but were #25...there are still 24 cats BETTER than you. That hardly makes you elite.

4 out of 32 is being very kind as it is 12.5%

If we wanted to say the top 10% (9.375 to be precise) of QBs that would be 3 guys. My point? Not every play caller in the NFL is "elite" and if EVERYONE is elite...NO ONE is.

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 09:37 AM
Wrong, look at my playoff stats again and where they were ranked in the playoffs. It's right there..they were near the bottom of the 12 teams in every category. Your theory doesn't work no matter the spin. The D made the last stop but that doesn't mean that Flacco didn't cover their tail for a majority of the playoff run.

Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:43 AM
Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?



:thinking: I can't argue with your logic. I still disagree, but I'd tip my hat to you (if I could get a hat over all this hair) for your well structured argument.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 09:46 AM
If Flacco gets his 20 mil a season he will sodomize the rest of the team under the cap. Also expect your offensive co-ordinator to be offered a head coaching job.

What team still has a HC position open right now?

HoustonFrog
02-07-2013, 09:47 AM
Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?

No offense, but you can't say the stuff your saying and be truthful. The game WASN'T won with him on sideline. You can't just pinpoint that goal line stand and say that he wouldn't have gotten paid. Because he still would have had a 124 QB rating, 11 TDs, 0 ints and they still would have had close to a minute and a half on the clock. You don't know the outcome if they score. Too much time left. They still had to run plays to end it. He'd still be getting paid the same. It is just easier with a SB MVP but them scoring there wouldn't hurt what he did. I can easily say.."defense doesn't have a chance to win the game without 3 first half TDs by Flacco"...see how that works. OR defense and Flacco owe Jacoby. The fact is, Dread was making it seem like the defense made Flacco's life easier all season...THIS season...and they didn't. He was the one carrying the team for the most part down the stretch.

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 09:48 AM
:thinking: I can't argue with your logic. I still disagree, but I'd tip my hat to you (if I could get a hat over all this hair) for your well structured argument.

You know how we like to 3itch even if we win right? Had we won that game, like I said... we would be talking about our STs & our defense. Joe Flacco & his offense did not score one TD in the 4th qtr.

Jacoby Jones & his ST Td, Jacoby Jones with his catch & heads up play (thrown by Flacco)...... but from then on, it was the Ravens defense.

We would be 3itching about Kubiak going turtle & Schaub not taking chances as they hoist the Lombardi.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 09:49 AM
What team still has a HC position open right now?

Coaches get fired all the time...

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 09:55 AM
The fact is, Dread was making it seem like the defense made Flacco's life easier all season...THIS season...and they didn't. He was the one carrying the team for the most part down the stretch.

Good points, I can't argue & I'm sure Dread is tired of me putting words in his mouth.

But I'd have loved it if our defense held Brady to 13 points. Not that that would have helped Schaub or anything, he'd still have to throw 2 TDs. It would have been nice if our defense could have made a great QB turn the ball over 3 times & almost a 4th. It would have been nice if our defense would have held the opponent to 0 points when they got the ball to the 5 yard line....

But our QB sucks & Joe Flacco is the best in the league (I truly believe the latter).

It doesn't matter what the other 52 guys do as long as your QB has a rocket laser arm & runs like a gazelle.....

Speaking of which, why isn't anyone talking about Collin Kaepernick? Why don't we have a 10 page thread going on about Kaepernick?

Do you think that would be different if their defense could have kept the Ravens out of Field goal range there in the 4th qtr? Would we even have a Flacco thread & a FlaccoFan building a nest here?

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 11:10 AM
Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?

2 things won the playoffs and SB for Baltimore:

Red Zone Offense
Red Zone Defense

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 11:12 AM
Coaches get fired all the time...

So, a Head Coach is going to be fired between now and Training Camp?

HoustonFrog
02-07-2013, 11:34 AM
Good points, I can't argue & I'm sure Dread is tired of me putting words in his mouth.

But I'd have loved it if our defense held Brady to 13 points. Not that that would have helped Schaub or anything, he'd still have to throw 2 TDs. It would have been nice if our defense could have made a great QB turn the ball over 3 times & almost a 4th. It would have been nice if our defense would have held the opponent to 0 points when they got the ball to the 5 yard line....

But our QB sucks & Joe Flacco is the best in the league (I truly believe the latter).

It doesn't matter what the other 52 guys do as long as your QB has a rocket laser arm & runs like a gazelle.....

Speaking of which, why isn't anyone talking about Collin Kaepernick? Why don't we have a 10 page thread going on about Kaepernick?

Do you think that would be different if their defense could have kept the Ravens out of Field goal range there in the 4th qtr? Would we even have a Flacco thread & a FlaccoFan building a nest here?

I know what you were getting at, I was just debating what I perceived was Dread's premise.

As for the bolded....LOVE the guy...more that RGIII and Wilson. Not that I don't think those guys are studs, I just love Kaepernicks arm, poise, ability to pick up large chunks with his legs without being a "running QB" and I think he does a great job of running without taking hits.

As for Flacco if they lose...this thread might not be here but my argument would be the same...the guy played his tail off the last 7 weeks or so.

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
As for the bolded....LOVE the guy...more that RGIII and Wilson. Not that I don't think those guys are studs, I just love Kaepernicks arm, poise, ability to pick up large chunks with his legs without being a "running QB" and I think he does a great job of running without taking hits.


They're fun to watch, they add an extra dimension to their offenses. I give them that. But this isn't the first time the league has seen & dealt with QBs like them.

It's just the first time in a while that we've seen so many of them in the same year.

I'd like to see how they do, when their teams try to get more production from the pocket. Inevitably it will happen.

They're going to have to throw the ball in small windows more frequently, then we'll know.

Right now the only that I think has shown the accuracy he'll need has been RG3...... to me.

As for Flacco if they lose...this thread might not be here but my argument would be the same...the guy played his tail off the last 7 weeks or so.

Agreed, but some people wouldn't see that. Matt Ryan had an amazing run but most have already forgot about it.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2013, 12:41 PM
They're fun to watch, they add an extra dimension to their offenses. I give them that. But this isn't the first time the league has seen & dealt with QBs like them.

It's just the first time in a while that we've seen so many of them in the same year.

I'd like to see how they do, when their teams try to get more production from the pocket. Inevitably it will happen.

They're going to have to throw the ball in small windows more frequently, then we'll know.

Right now the only that I think has shown the accuracy he'll need has been RG3...... to me.


Agreed, but some people wouldn't see that. Matt Ryan had an amazing run but most have already forgot about it.

I said that about RGIII the other day. He doesn't need to run if he doesn't have to. He can be a pocket guy. I think Kaepernick can too. He has a big time arm and seemed to really be able to fit some throws into tight spaces...some to Vernon Davis. We will see on Wilson. Like him but not sure if he can be a guy that is pure pocket. Will always need to roll out as much as possible in my book.

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 01:13 PM
2 things won the playoffs and SB for Baltimore:

Red Zone Offense
Red Zone Defense

(COUGH)Refereesnotejectingaplayerwhowouldhavebeene jected100%ofthetimehadhebeenwithanyotherteam(COUGH )ignoringnumerousoffsidesincludingonatwopointconve rsion(COUGH)obviouspassinterferenceandholdingcalls notcalled(ahem) Sorry...yeah...best team in the history of the Superbowl. The guys who won via blowouts and with good officiating...were WAY over-rated. :popcorn: Popcorn?

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 02:51 PM
I said that about RGIII the other day. He doesn't need to run if he doesn't have to. He can be a pocket guy. I think Kaepernick can too. He has a big time arm and seemed to really be able to fit some throws into tight spaces...some to Vernon Davis. We will see on Wilson. Like him but not sure if he can be a guy that is pure pocket. Will always need to roll out as much as possible in my book.

They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
(COUGH)Refereesnotejectingaplayerwhowouldhavebeene jected100%ofthetimehadhebeenwithanyotherteam(COUGH )ignoringnumerousoffsidesincludingonatwopointconve rsion(COUGH)obviouspassinterferenceandholdingcalls notcalled(ahem) Sorry...yeah...best team in the history of the Superbowl. The guys who won via blowouts and with good officiating...were WAY over-rated. :popcorn: Popcorn?

Yoiu must have a pretty good case of the munchies by now....:mariopalm:

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 03:10 PM
Yoiu must have a pretty good case of the munchies by now....:mariopalm:

Nope...don't do drugs. :thinking: Never saw the point. It's been my experience that drugs alter reality to the point where those taking them are prone to believe that "marginal" & "adequate" are synonyms to "exceptional" rather than antonyms.


They causes people to hallucinate and think that the number "5" is actually the number "16" and that last name "Flacco" is spelled "M-O-N-T-A-N-A". I'd never do drugs. :dread: The dreadlocks throw lots of people off, but hey DO I appreciate your concern. You're a solid citizen.

:popcorn: SURE you don't want some popcorn?

Dread-Head
02-07-2013, 03:12 PM
They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

True, but Vick is a more accurate passer than the Michael Vick of old.

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 05:48 PM
They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

2012, these guys were throwing to wide open receivers because of what their athleticism gains them. As soon as their OCs & HCs try to improve their production from the pocket, we'll see how accurate these guys are.

infantrycak
02-07-2013, 07:32 PM
Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.

2012Champs
02-07-2013, 07:38 PM
Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.




That doesn't even sound right. Schaub at 120 less? My mind is blown

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 08:43 PM
Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.
Anyhow...... whenever it was, the season before he got his second $100M deal, people were talking about how much he grew as a QB. I think it was just that they hadn't seen his speed in a little while.

The league compensated & after he inked that deal, the windows got smaller & he didn't look like such a good QB anymore.

I predict the same thing is going to happen when Russell Wilson, & Collin Kaepernick have to throw into smaller windows.

handswarmer
02-08-2013, 08:52 AM
Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

2012, these guys were throwing to wide open receivers because of what their athleticism gains them. As soon as their OCs & HCs try to improve their production from the pocket, we'll see how accurate these guys are.

Again, infantrycak wrote exactly what I was going o write.

handswarmer
02-08-2013, 08:53 AM
Making the case For Flacco

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/index/_/count/16

handswarmer
02-09-2013, 09:57 AM
Agreed, but some people wouldn't see that. Matt Ryan had an amazing run but most have already forgot about it.

Because when it comes to crunch time,Ryan folds like a lawn chair. He has all the regular season stats with 2 Pro-Bowl WR's and a potential GOAT at TE, yet can't seem to win a playoff game worth a crap....Same with Stafford, Schaub,

Flacco wins

thunderkyss
02-09-2013, 11:03 AM
Because when it comes to crunch time,Ryan folds like a lawn chair. He has all the regular season stats with 2 Pro-Bowl WR's and a potential GOAT at TE, yet can't seem to win a playoff game worth a crap....Same with Stafford, Schaub,

Flacco wins

Until this season. He hung in there & played tough in the divisional round. He had a good game in the NFC Championship game as well. The team just fell short.

It's funny how some people say, "can't win in the big game" For some, that big game is any game with play off implications, until said QB wins that game. It becomes meaningless & the next game is a big game. The Falcons fail to win a play off game & he can't win in a big game.

He comes back, his team wins the #1 seed in the NFC, still hasn't won a big game. They win their divisional play off game (First Falcon post season victory in a long time), but lose in the Championship game.... still can't win the big game.

eh...

handswarmer
02-10-2013, 04:03 PM
Until this season. He hung in there & played tough in the divisional round. He had a good game in the NFC Championship game as well. The team just fell short.

It's funny how some people say, "can't win in the big game" For some, that big game is any game with play off implications, until said QB wins that game. It becomes meaningless & the next game is a big game. The Falcons fail to win a play off game & he can't win in a big game.

He comes back, his team wins the #1 seed in the NFC, still hasn't won a big game. They win their divisional play off game (First Falcon post season victory in a long time), but lose in the Championship game.... still can't win the big game.

eh...
Ryan had 2 turnovers in the 3rd qtr and couln't get his team in the ed zone at the end of the game- even with Tony Gonzales, Roddy White and Julio Jones to throw to....

He choked it up....
Number 1 overall pick in 08