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badboy
02-02-2013, 11:16 PM
1. ILB Manti Te'o 6'2 255 monster Middle with 113T 7 INTs
2 WR Justin Hunter 6'4 200 4.49 73/1083 14.8 9 TDs
3a S/CB Darrius Slay 6'1 190 sub 4.5
3b NT Sylvester Williams 6'3" 313 6 sacks
4. OLB Michael Buchanan 6'5" 255
5. TE Michael Williams 6'6" 270 good block and good hands
5b CB Terry Hawthorne 6'0 190 4.49
5c RB Cierre Wood 6'0 215 4.48 114/742 6.5 as a back up

Wolf6151
02-03-2013, 03:13 AM
JMO:

1. Te'o, AWW HELL TO THE NO.
2. Hunter, great player and pick but I just don't think he's going to be available at #57, steal of the draft if he is.
3. Slay, ehhh not sure here with bigger team needs at O-line and NT. Good player though and I wouldn't be mad.
3b. Williams, you really think he falls this far? I don't, mid 2nd at worst. Great value if available though.
4. Buchanan, I dont' know alot about him, just started studying OLB prospects, but I'm good with it. Love the size for the position.
5. Williams, love this pick. Kasa is a possibility here as well.
5b. Hawthorne, I don't care what CBS says for rankings I think he goes alot higher. Late 2nd or early 3rd.
5c. Wood, if we trade Tate then this is a good pick. I'm not real familiar with him, but love the size speed combo.

The only one I hate is Te'o, I think he's overrated for the NFL. He's more of a run stuffer and I think we need a sideline to sideline guy that can handle RB and TE pass coverage while still being able to play the run (Ogletree). He's just not athletic enough. Not to mention that he's either an idiot or liar and I want neither on our team. Let someone else deal with all the drama that will surround this guy.

As for the rest, if our draft did fall this way it would be a homerun. I just think some of these guys go earlier than you have them slotted.

Corrosion
02-03-2013, 04:24 AM
:wadepalm:

Showtime100
02-03-2013, 04:47 AM
You are looking at gibberish. Make your own mind and forget about numbers.

Corrosion
02-03-2013, 05:29 AM
When it comes to Teo .... I just dont think he's an NFL player. I'll give you the best explination I can .... and hope it makes sense.


You know how some college QB's are really good college QB's and are worthless as pro prospects ? (Danny Wuerffel or Chris Weinke) Thats what I think of Teo.


I think we got a glimpse of what's to come from him in the NFL in the BCS Championship game against a team as close to an NFL team as you can get in the NCAA. Watch some of that game tape .... its very revealing.

WolverineFan
02-03-2013, 11:16 AM
1. ILB Manti Te'o 6'2 255 monster Middle with 113T 7 INTs
2 WR Justin Hunter 6'4 200 4.49 73/1083 14.8 9 TDs
3a S/CB Darrius Slay 6'1 190 sub 4.5
3b NT Sylvester Williams 6'3" 313 6 sacks
4. OLB Michael Buchanan 6'5" 255
5. TE Michael Williams 6'6" 270 good block and good hands
5b CB Terry Hawthorne 6'0 190 4.49
5c RB Cierre Wood 6'0 215 4.48 114/742 6.5 as a back up

1 - Te'o - Drafting him as the 'run stuffing' ILB is a mistake. As shown against Alabama, he struggles to shed blocks. He's been overrated all season long. Not a 1st round talent.

2 - Hunter - Great physical tools, wish there was more film on him. Really only played one season in college and had tons of talent around him. Could be a very good #2 and eventual AJ successor if he stays healthy. I do prefer him over guys like Austin, Bailey, and Woods.

3 - Slay - Solid player. I think there will be better talents available this early though.

3b - Williams - Great athlete, could be an answer at the Nose for us, but don't think he lasts this long. He will do great at the combine and go earlier than this.

4 - Buchanan - Great athlete, could be a real sleeper this year, but did not have near the season I thought he would.

5 - Williams - Love his size and like his skill set, but he needs to develop as a receiver. He could be what Hill never was.

5b - Hawthorne - Very underrated player. He will be long gone by the 5th round. Really like him. He's been a stalwart on the back end for Illinois for years.

5c - Wood - Great tools, a bit underrated because ND uses a lot of backs. Fits the system. Not sure we get two 5th round comp picks though. If this is a 6th I doubt he's there. Zac Stacy might be though.

coon
02-03-2013, 12:52 PM
Te'o can play football. If this mock was posted before his scandal we would all be bashing badboy for thinking he would fall that far. I would not want to draft him because of the scandal, but he was the anchor of the a defense that had one bad game all season. You don't get 7 int's if you cant cover. Te'o is a scary prospect to take, but it's not because of his ability.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 01:47 PM
1 - Te'o - Drafting him as the 'run stuffing' ILB is a mistake. As shown against Alabama, he struggles to shed blocks. He's been overrated all season long. Not a 1st round talent.


I've seen/heard this way too many times not to take it into consideration. Even before the KeKua thing blew up. Serious questions were raised after the NC game & I don't know if they've been answered or not.

I hope everyone is wrong, I hope our staff can weed through all the anti Te'o hype, see the star talent & take him with #27 or lower.

But things don't generally go that way for Houston sports franchises. We'll be the one to draft him, he won't make it on the field & everyone will be wondering what the heck were we thinking.

mussop
02-03-2013, 01:49 PM
When it comes to Teo .... I just dont think he's an NFL player. I'll give you the best explination I can .... and hope it makes sense.


You know how some college QB's are really good college QB's and are worthless as pro prospects ? (Danny Wuerffel or Chris Weinke) Thats what I think of Teo.


I think we got a glimpse of what's to come from him in the NFL in the BCS Championship game against a team as close to an NFL team as you can get in the NCAA. Watch some of that game tape .... its very revealing.

Please point out this game tape you are talking about. Because when I watch his tape I definitely don't see a top 5 talent but, I do see a guy that is well worth the 27th pick in the draft. In fact he might be perfect next to Cushing.

He is not a thumper thats for sure. What he brings to the table is high football IQ with very good instincts. He is at his best when in coverage and playing sideline to sideline. IMO that is exactly what we need next to Cushing.

Cushing is the one that is going to be making the big hits and stuffing RB's at the LOS. We need someone who can cover and make plays behind him. I think most of the posters that are hatin on him are basing their opinion on their dislike of the attention he recieved pre-BCS champoinship game, the scandel and his performance in the championship game.

One game does not tell a players worth nor does outside BS that the player can't control. Mike Mayok said Teo should win the heisman and Im sure he watched more film than anyone on Teo. Is he a top 10 player? NO! Is he worthy of going in the first round? HELL YES!!

Honoring Earl 34
02-03-2013, 01:57 PM
Please point out this game tape you are talking about. Because when I watch his tape I definitely don't see a top 5 talent but, I do see a guy that is well worth the 27th pick in the draft. In fact he might be perfect next to Cushing.

He is not a thumper thats for sure. What he brings to the table is high football IQ with very good instincts. He is at his best when in coverage and playing sideline to sideline. IMO that is exactly what we need next to Cushing.

Cushing is the one that is going to be making the big hits and stuffing RB's at the LOS. We need someone who can cover and make plays behind him. I think most of the posters that are hatin on him are basing their opinion on their dislike of the attention he recieved pre-BCS champoinship game, the scandel and his performance in the championship game.

One game does not tell a players worth nor does outside BS that the player can't control. Mike Mayok said Teo should win the heisman and Im sure he watched more film than anyone on Teo. Is he a top 10 player? NO! Is he worthy of going in the first round? HELL YES!!

In the NC game I saw a player on is heels and not his toes . Part of his game is an outstanding motor . He played like Pau Gasol after Pau got dumped during the NBA championship .

Lucky
02-04-2013, 10:23 PM
I'm wondering why the o-line isn't addressed? I'm not a believer in Newton. I think he would be best served moving inside and possibly replacing Wade Smith in 2014. I don't know if Brooks has the feet to play RT. And I was not real impressed with Ben Jones. I just don't think he has the strength to be a good pass blocker. I think the Texans need to go RT in one of the 1st 2 picks, if they aren't able to do something in free agency. Probably another guard on the 3rd day.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 10:48 PM
I'm wondering why the o-line isn't addressed? I'm not a believer in Newton. I think he would be best served moving inside and possibly replacing Wade Smith in 2014. I don't know if Brooks has the feet to play RT. And I was not real impressed with Ben Jones. I just don't think he has the strength to be a good pass blocker. I think the Texans need to go RT in one of the 1st 2 picks, if they aren't able to do something in free agency. Probably another guard on the 3rd day.

I've got the same concern about Newton's feet. But I love Ben Jones.

I don't think Tackle is that high of a concern, I expect our 1st three selections should be OLB, WR, ILB....... not necessarily in that order.

But I think getting an elite RT would be like drafting a 5 tech when we already had Mario Williams & lead our offense to a similar type of step change.

Lucky
02-04-2013, 11:23 PM
But I think getting an elite RT would be like drafting a 5 tech when we already had Mario Williams & lead our offense to a similar type of step change.
I don't know if anyone elite will be there at #27 at any position. But, there should be someone pretty good. At least better than a 7th round project/street free agent rotation.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 11:31 PM
I don't know if anyone elite will be there at #27 at any position. But, there should be someone pretty good. At least better than a 7th round project/street free agent rotation.

For a traditional Power scheme, probably not. But we did select Duane Brown at 26.

Corrosion
02-05-2013, 01:35 AM
I've got the same concern about Newton's feet. But I love Ben Jones.

I don't think Tackle is that high of a concern, I expect our 1st three selections should be OLB, WR, ILB....... not necessarily in that order.

But I think getting an elite RT would be like drafting a 5 tech when we already had Mario Williams & lead our offense to a similar type of step change.

I was high on Jones earlier in the season ..... but that has waned. I dont know if he's just not ready technique wise or .... if he's just not an NFL calibur guard. The fact that Brooks took over for him late says a lot to me .... they have to get stronger up front.

I agree with Lucky that RT is a serious concern .... that right side fell of bigtime from Winston / Briesel to Newton / Jones or Brooks. For this offense to be successful , it has to be able to run the ball effectively - 3.7 ypc aint gonna cut it. They also have to keep Schaub clean ..... or else.

Newton was fairly solid in pass pro but piss poor in run blocking and in the screen game. Two staples of this offense ..... I think its absolutely necessary the RT position is upgraded relegating Newton to the swing tackle.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 02:00 AM
1 - Te'o - Drafting him as the 'run stuffing' ILB is a mistake. As shown against Alabama, he struggles to shed blocks. He's been overrated all season long. Not a 1st round talent.

2 - Hunter - Great physical tools, wish there was more film on him. Really only played one season in college and had tons of talent around him. Could be a very good #2 and eventual AJ successor if he stays healthy. I do prefer him over guys like Austin, Bailey, and Woods.

3 - Slay - Solid player. I think there will be better talents available this early though.

3b - Williams - Great athlete, could be an answer at the Nose for us, but don't think he lasts this long. He will do great at the combine and go earlier than this.

4 - Buchanan - Great athlete, could be a real sleeper this year, but did not have near the season I thought he would.

5 - Williams - Love his size and like his skill set, but he needs to develop as a receiver. He could be what Hill never was.

5b - Hawthorne - Very underrated player. He will be long gone by the 5th round. Really like him. He's been a stalwart on the back end for Illinois for years.

5c - Wood - Great tools, a bit underrated because ND uses a lot of backs. Fits the system. Not sure we get two 5th round comp picks though. If this is a 6th I doubt he's there. Zac Stacy might be though.

Both Wood and Stacy look to be pretty fast. Both are ranked really low by CBS.

I think I prefer Kenjon Barner though.
I think 4-5th is good value for him.
His cutting ability is pretty sick.

Another guy that caught my eyes is George Winn (Bearcats).
He's not as fast, but he has powerful legs that keep churning.
Hard to bring him down.
Could be an UDFA or late round pick.
Might be a sleeper here.

leebigeztx
02-05-2013, 03:55 AM
Put me in the camp that teo is gonna be a outstanding football player. His key and diagnose is top flight. His ability to read passing concepts are also top notch. People are overreacting to one game. Go watch 95 national champ game and watch how warren sapp and ray lewis were pushed around by nebraska all game. In fact, go watch ray lewis in his prime post adams and goose and see how will shields had him on rollerskates. Ray lewis basically drafted ngata so he could do his thing.

Again, I heard this same overreaction when people spoke of derrick johnson. All he's done is become one of the best lbs in nfl. Teo is a bonifide player and playmaker. If he's there,which I doubt,the texans should draft him.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 08:50 AM
I was high on Jones earlier in the season ..... but that has waned. I dont know if he's just not ready technique wise or .... if he's just not an NFL calibur guard. The fact that Brooks took over for him late says a lot to me .... they have to get stronger up front.

I agree with Lucky that RT is a serious concern .... that right side fell of bigtime from Winston / Briesel to Newton / Jones or Brooks. For this offense to be successful , it has to be able to run the ball effectively - 3.7 ypc aint gonna cut it. They also have to keep Schaub clean ..... or else.

Newton was fairly solid in pass pro but piss poor in run blocking and in the screen game. Two staples of this offense ..... I think its absolutely necessary the RT position is upgraded relegating Newton to the swing tackle.

I understand your concern. Our run game took a big hit, no doubt from where we finished with Briesel & Winston. But I think we're miles ahead from where we started with Briesel & Winston.

Newton injured his knee right about the time our offense dropped off the face of the earth. I don't know how close to 100% he was when he came back, but there was still a bit of a drop off.

I agree with you on his screen performance, I think he was consistently below average even before the injury.

Like I said, there's definitely room for improvement. An "elite" like talent there (Eric Winston in the run game) would really take us to another level. I don't know that Newton can be that guy, I don't know that he can't. Many didn't think Brown could be that guy.

badboy
02-05-2013, 10:54 AM
I was high on Jones earlier in the season ..... but that has waned. I dont know if he's just not ready technique wise or .... if he's just not an NFL calibur guard. The fact that Brooks took over for him late says a lot to me .... they have to get stronger up front.

I agree with Lucky that RT is a serious concern .... that right side fell of bigtime from Winston / Briesel to Newton / Jones or Brooks. For this offense to be successful , it has to be able to run the ball effectively - 3.7 ypc aint gonna cut it. They also have to keep Schaub clean ..... or else.

Newton was fairly solid in pass pro but piss poor in run blocking and in the screen game. Two staples of this offense ..... I think its absolutely necessary the RT position is upgraded relegating Newton to the swing tackle.

My understanding is RB avg 4.3 with Power Success of 61% ranking 9th in both run and pass blocking. Adjusted line yardage was 3.13 for LT versus 4.83 for RT. So if correct, maybe you want to get rid of that Duane Brown guy?

480 RB carries almost evenly distributed to both sides. Oline allowed 28 sacks IIRC ans ome were on QB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Rey
02-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Ryan Clady
Andre Smith
Branden Albert
Jake Long
Sebastian Vollmer
Will Beatty
Gosder Cherilus
Phil Loadholt
Jermon Bushrod
Sam Baker
Ryan Harris
Winston Justice
King Dunlap
Chad Clifton
Bryant McKinnie
Max Starks
Will Svitek
Tyler Polumbus
Sean Locklear
Tony Pashos
Khalif Barnes
Barry Richardson
Jonathan Scott
Frank Omiyale
Dennis Roland
Jeff Otah
Brandon Keith
Jeremy Trueblood
Brandyn Dombrowski
D'Anthony Batiste
Jason Smith
Mario Henderson
Rashad Butler
Tony Hills
Pat McQuistan
Lydon Murtha


I think one of our RT's will come from this list.

badboy
02-05-2013, 11:19 AM
Both Wood and Stacy look to be pretty fast. Both are ranked really low by CBS.

I think I prefer Kenjon Barner though.
I think 4-5th is good value for him.
His cutting ability is pretty sick.

Another guy that caught my eyes is George Winn (Bearcats).
He's not as fast, but he has powerful legs that keep churning.
Hard to bring him down.
Could be an UDFA or late round pick.
Might be a sleeper here.Another thing I like about Woods he did not sulk when coached brought in others ahead of him. He kept grinding it out showing he has the skills and determination.

badboy
02-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Rey "I think one of our RT's will come from this list." If we can get an upgrade reasonably priced, that will be great. Will be interesting under new CBA where Clady will end up and for how much.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 11:52 AM
Ryan Clady
Andre Smith
Branden Albert
Jake Long
Sebastian Vollmer
Will Beatty
Gosder Cherilus
Phil Loadholt
Jermon Bushrod
Sam Baker
Ryan Harris
Winston Justice
King Dunlap
Chad Clifton
Bryant McKinnie
Max Starks
Will Svitek
Tyler Polumbus
Sean Locklear
Tony Pashos
Khalif Barnes
Barry Richardson
Jonathan Scott
Frank Omiyale
Dennis Roland
Jeff Otah
Brandon Keith
Jeremy Trueblood
Brandyn Dombrowski
D'Anthony Batiste
Jason Smith
Mario Henderson
Rashad Butler
Tony Hills
Pat McQuistan
Lydon Murtha


I think one of our RT's will come from this list.

Sadly, I think you're probably right.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 12:45 PM
Another thing I like about Woods he did not sulk when coached brought in others ahead of him. He kept grinding it out showing he has the skills and determination.

I don't think we will go for a RB until very late.
I think we keep Tate and bring Forsett back.

Therefore, I think I will be more comfortable to take Winn in the 7th. There's no sense to wait to see of becomes an UDFA. He has a lot of good threads on his tires sitting behind Isaiah Pead the last few years.

A strong back that I hope I can hold up at the next level at a cheap price.

eriadoc
02-05-2013, 12:49 PM
1. Not a QB
2 Not a QB
3a Not a QB
3b Not a QB

Not a fan.

badboy
02-05-2013, 01:08 PM
I don't think we will go for a RB until very late.
I think we keep Tate and bring Forsett back.

Therefore, I think I will be more comfortable to take Winn in the 7th. There's no sense to wait to see of becomes an UDFA. He has a lot of good threads on his tires sitting behind Isaiah Pead the last few years.

A strong back that I hope I can hold up at the next level at a cheap price.I'd be ok with keeping Forsett but Woods is a huge fast back that would offer alternative if Foster got hurt. Forsett cannot grind out the ball, imo. A 5th for a back like Woods would be a remarkable pick.

badboy
02-05-2013, 01:09 PM
Not a fan.Well I want a pretty girl but chances about same as you getting a difference making QB. lol

76Texan
02-05-2013, 01:12 PM
I don't think we will go for a RB until very late.
I think we keep Tate and bring Forsett back.

Therefore, I think I will be more comfortable to take Winn in the 7th. There's no sense to wait to see of becomes an UDFA. He has a lot of good threads on his tires sitting behind Isaiah Pead the last few years.

A strong back that I hope I can hold up at the next level at a cheap price.

Just learned that Stacy and Winn have been invited to the combine.
Expect Winn not to run fast in the 40.

Also, local product D.J. Hayden was also invited.
I just don't know if he can recover soon enough from a near-fatal injury last November (in fact, Dr. Love said that the injury "should have" killed him.)
Even if he can attend, I doubt he can be in shape to perform; what a shame!

When I saw him his junior year, I had no doubt he can play at the next level (just don't know how well); it was a thought echoed by a few different broadcasters, including a former college coach.
Now I don't even know if he can play football again at all.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 01:15 PM
I'd be ok with keeping Forsett but Woods is a huge fast back that would offer alternative if Foster got hurt. Forsett cannot grind out the ball, imo. A 5th for a back like Woods would be a remarkable pick.

I'm good with Woods in the 5th; but if we can keep Forsett for cheap, perhaps we can use the pick for another position or to trade up.

I didn't pay attention, is Woods any good in blocking?

steelbtexan
02-05-2013, 01:57 PM
I was high on Jones earlier in the season ..... but that has waned. I dont know if he's just not ready technique wise or .... if he's just not an NFL calibur guard. The fact that Brooks took over for him late says a lot to me .... they have to get stronger up front.

I agree with Lucky that RT is a serious concern .... that right side fell of bigtime from Winston / Briesel to Newton / Jones or Brooks. For this offense to be successful , it has to be able to run the ball effectively - 3.7 ypc aint gonna cut it. They also have to keep Schaub clean ..... or else.

Newton was fairly solid in pass pro but piss poor in run blocking and in the screen game. Two staples of this offense ..... I think its absolutely necessary the RT position is upgraded relegating Newton to the swing tackle.

Yep

And WR And QB etc....

Rey
02-05-2013, 02:41 PM
I'd be ok with keeping Forsett but Woods is a huge fast back that would offer alternative if Foster got hurt. Forsett cannot grind out the ball, imo. A 5th for a back like Woods would be a remarkable pick.

I don't know why we didn't keep Grimes. I think he was a really good fit for this system.

Rey
02-05-2013, 02:46 PM
Just and FYI, Duane Brown was on the radio a little while ago on Texans all access and he's very high on Newton. Feels he has all the tools and says the biggest jump for O-linemen is from the first year they play to the next year. But the most interesting thing he said was that he's going to take Newton under his wing and personally work with him all off season...Film study, technique (he really harped on technique) and strength/conditioning.

Just based on what I have seen from the Texans in the past and the ways guys are talking, I think they fully plan on moving forward with Newton as the starter with some solid competition maybe backing him up.

Hopefully Newton can improve working with D. Brown all off season.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 03:06 PM
But the most interesting thing he said was that he's going to take Newton under his wing and personally work with him all off season...Film study, technique (he really harped on technique) and strength/conditioning.


I like it. That's leadership to me. Interestingly enough, I remember last week they were talking about how Duane Brown said it was a struggle playing RT in the pro bowl, so he's got an appreciation for how different it is.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 03:31 PM
Newton wasn't a disaster.
Considering his injury, he gives some hope.
But we need more than hope.
If we can draft another tackle, we should.

There are some out there in the draft.
It's not like all the teams are out to draft an OT.

Several of them have been drafted since Brown.
We can get one. He may not start right away, but by the halfway mark of the season, that guy might be able to take the job away from Newton, unless Newt becomes of age - which is even better.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 03:45 PM
Several of them have been drafted since Brown.
We can get one. He may not start right away, but by the halfway mark of the season, that guy might be able to take the job away from Newton, unless Newt becomes of age - which is even better.

This is the only problem I have here. I think Newton is going to get better & be that RT we need him to be. At least I feel better about that than I do about our starting ILB (next to Cushing) is already on this roster. Or that our starting WR (next to Andre) is already on this roster. Or that our starting OLB (I honestly can't think of a starter on the team right now at WOLB)....

Like I said, if there's an Elite RT out there at 27, even though he isn't a big "need" for us right now I think it'll take our offense/running game to another level like what Jj Watt is doing for our defense.

badboy
02-05-2013, 03:51 PM
I'm good with Woods in the 5th; but if we can keep Forsett for cheap, perhaps we can use the pick for another position or to trade up.

I didn't pay attention, is Woods any good in blocking?I really hope Hayden does not pee on his second chance. I'd advise him to remain out of football. Like most RB, Cierre Woods needs more training in blocking but should do as well as Forsett, Tate or Barner. If you want him basically as a back to protect Schaub in passing, Woods has long way to go.

badboy
02-05-2013, 03:54 PM
Just and FYI, Duane Brown was on the radio a little while ago on Texans all access and he's very high on Newton. Feels he has all the tools and says the biggest jump for O-linemen is from the first year they play to the next year. But the most interesting thing he said was that he's going to take Newton under his wing and personally work with him all off season...Film study, technique (he really harped on technique) and strength/conditioning.

Just based on what I have seen from the Texans in the past and the ways guys are talking, I think they fully plan on moving forward with Newton as the starter with some solid competition maybe backing him up.

Hopefully Newton can improve working with D. Brown all off season.Good news. I started out not being a fan of Newton's but he won me over. I liked Grimes also, but didn't do enough to get on roster and stick.

badboy
02-05-2013, 04:00 PM
This is the only problem I have here. I think Newton is going to get better & be that RT we need him to be. At least I feel better about that than I do about our starting ILB (next to Cushing) is already on this roster. Or that our starting WR (next to Andre) is already on this roster. Or that our starting OLB (I honestly can't think of a starter on the team right now at WOLB)....

Like I said, if there's an Elite RT out there at 27, even though he isn't a big "need" for us right now I think it'll take our offense/running game to another level like what Jj Watt is doing for our defense.I agree except for last sentence as I just don't see going OT until WR/NT/ILB are resolved. That still allows us to look there in 3rd or later. I just think if we don't go ILB in first might as well wait until 3B or round 4. In this ILB (Te'o or Minter)#27 2 WR 3 S/CB and a NT pretty much wraps my concerns.

mussop
02-05-2013, 06:44 PM
I agree except for last sentence as I just don't see going OT until WR/NT/ILB are resolved. That still allows us to look there in 3rd or later. I just think if we don't go ILB in first might as well wait until 3B or round 4. In this ILB (Te'o or Minter)#27 2 WR 3 S/CB and a NT pretty much wraps my concerns.

What about Chase Thomas or Gerald Hodges as an ILB? I think either could move inside. Having someone at ILB that could move outside in certain situations could only be a plus. Hell draft one of them and let him and Reed fight it out for the ILB and keep the other one outside.

WolverineFan
02-05-2013, 08:28 PM
BTW...it's Cierre Wood, not Woods.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 09:39 PM
BTW...it's Cierre Wood, not Woods.

He'll fit right in with Walters & Daniel

76Texan
02-05-2013, 11:02 PM
BTW...it's Cierre Wood, not Woods.

I got the name right but BB "corrected" me and I'm too lazy to look it up again.
Hell there are too many names to remember; it's not all that important anyway.
:chickendance:

badboy
02-06-2013, 04:29 PM
What about Chase Thomas or Gerald Hodges as an ILB? I think either could move inside. Having someone at ILB that could move outside in certain situations could only be a plus. Hell draft one of them and let him and Reed fight it out for the ILB and keep the other one outside.Maybe Thomas but I see both more OLB. For that spot I'd prefer a true ILB who would have enough concern translating to NFl than OLB learning new role.

badboy
02-06-2013, 04:35 PM
I got the name right but BB "corrected" me and I'm too lazy to look it up again.
Hell there are too many names to remember; it's not all that important anyway.
:chickendance:If I corrected you it was not in this thread as I added 's' in 2-3 posts myself. I don't get caught up in spelling as I can usually figure out if poster writes Walters or Daniel who he is refering to.

steelbtexan
02-06-2013, 05:30 PM
Maybe Thomas but I see both more OLB. For that spot I'd prefer a true ILB who would have enough concern translating to NFl than OLB learning new role.

With Reed moving to ILB wouldn't OLB depth be more of an issue?

badboy
02-06-2013, 05:57 PM
With Reed moving to ILB wouldn't OLB depth be more of an issue?This is a rumor. Gonna hold off a bit. Besides if true Barwin and Mercilus are starters and OLB in 4th.

Spled
02-25-2013, 04:50 PM
Te'o ran a 4.82 at the combine. There's a good chance he will drop to us. I think we should bring him in for a workout.

b0ng
02-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Te'o ran a 4.82 at the combine. There's a good chance he will drop to us. I think we should bring him in for a workout.

Yikes, I think that he will certainly drop a couple of rounds, not a couple of spots in the first.

badboy
02-25-2013, 05:00 PM
Yikes, I think that he will certainly drop a couple of rounds, not a couple of spots in the first.Based on what?

b0ng
02-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Based on what?

Terrible combine and an absolutely awful performance against the closest thing CFB had to an NFL caliber O-line.

jaayteetx
02-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Terrible combine and an absolutely awful performance against the closest thing CFB had to an NFL caliber O-line.

What he said, do we really want a LB who is a liability in the pass game?

badboy
02-25-2013, 05:49 PM
Terrible combine and an absolutely awful performance against the closest thing CFB had to an NFL caliber O-line.The only negative I heard from combine is his 40 at 4.82. If that drops him so it drops Minter at 4.81. "Did what scouts expected".

Video on Teo:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap2000000145212/A-Scout-s-Take-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Day-3

badboy
02-25-2013, 05:51 PM
What he said, do we really want a LB who is a liability in the pass game?7 INTs?

b0ng
02-25-2013, 06:06 PM
The only negative I heard from combine is his 40 at 4.82. If that drops him so it drops Minter at 4.81. "Did what scouts expected".

Video on Teo:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap2000000145212/A-Scout-s-Take-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Day-3

I don't really understand what this has to do with Minter, but I don't really like any of this ILB class at #27 for the Texans.

badboy
02-25-2013, 06:14 PM
I don't really understand what this has to do with Minter, but I don't really like any of this ILB class at #27 for the Texans.You said T'eo had a terrible combine. I responded that the only "terrible" or negative was his 40 time and it was almost exactly the same as Minter another highly rated ILB. I am going with an ILB lower rounds due to needs versus available players

mussop
02-25-2013, 08:56 PM
Teo was over rated before the championship game. Now he is under rated. One game does not define a player. He is a late first round talent period.

His forty time might scare me for our team simply because Wade will put ILB's in man coverage against TE's often. Same goes for Minter. Still both have first round talent.

I'm still going DT first if any of my top five are still available. Looking for a 3 down ILB with speed to cover the faster TE's later. Kiko? We need depth at safety, OLB and a nickel back on defense.

I want another T, WR and even another TE on offense. I'm going BPA that fills a need. If Dysert is available in the third round I'm taking him.

b0ng
02-25-2013, 10:41 PM
You said T'eo had a terrible combine. I responded that the only "terrible" or negative was his 40 time and it was almost exactly the same as Minter another highly rated ILB. I am going with an ILB lower rounds due to needs versus available players

I really don't think you'll see Minter in the 1st round either fwiw. Both didn't really do enough to show they could cover nfl te's this combine.

mussop
02-25-2013, 11:35 PM
I really don't think you'll see Minter in the 1st round either fwiw. Both didn't really do enough to show they could cover nfl te's this combine.

Besides having slower than expected 40s what else did they do or not do to give you that opinion?

Corrosion
02-25-2013, 11:42 PM
Teo was over rated before the championship game. Now he is under rated

I agree with this statement .... but not him being a late first rounder , I think he's a late second to mid third as ILB's just dont have the value of skill positions or those that get after or protect the QB unless they have an elite skill to bring to the table - He really doesnt have a skill that sets him apart.


I wouldnt take Teo until the 3rd .... I'd rather have one of the DT/NT's and a WR with those first two picks (in no particular order) .... of which there are many to pick from in the first couple rounds and then take a look at Nico Johnson or AJ Klien in rounds 3 and 4 respectively or maybe even Oklahoma's Tom Wort later in the draft.

badboy
02-26-2013, 12:15 AM
I agree with this statement .... but not him being a late first rounder , I think he's a late second to mid third as ILB's just dont have the value of skill positions or those that get after or protect the QB unless they have an elite skill to bring to the table - He really doesnt have a skill that sets him apart.


I wouldnt take Teo until the 3rd .... I'd rather have one of the DT/NT's and a WR with those first two picks (in no particular order) .... of which there are many to pick from in the first couple rounds and then take a look at Nico Johnson or AJ Klien in rounds 3 and 4 respectively or maybe even Oklahoma's Tom Wort later in the draft.what are the odds Texans trade out of first to top 8 in second?

b0ng
02-26-2013, 12:33 AM
Besides having slower than expected 40s what else did they do or not do to give you that opinion?

When I watched both of these guys play they reminded me of Rey Malaluga. Surrounded by superior talent and got to rack up a bunch of stats because they had awesome talent in front of them.

Corrosion
02-26-2013, 01:09 AM
what are the odds Texans trade out of first to top 8 in second?

Hard as hell to nail down at this point.

Really depends on what players are available and what teams like player X enough to move up.

I definately wouldnt be against a move back to the top 8-10 of round two because I think those positions most believe the Texans would be targeting have value well beyond that point. (Jenkins or Short) (DeAndre Hopkins or Da'Rick Rogers)

Also depends on what the compensation for the swap would be other than that #2. Future first ? additional picks in this draft ?!

IDEXAN
02-26-2013, 08:46 AM
The way Teo is going in this Combine, he might end up being available for our second-round pic and I'm not exaggerating ? His 40 time @ 4.8+ is very unimpressive, and his overall athleticism is average. And at 240 he's also smaller than advertised and with all of this baggage with this internet controversy on the imaginary girlfriend, who needs the drama ? Well but wait, he did go to ND so for the fighting Irish fans he's still got that going for him.

tru80texan
02-26-2013, 09:44 AM
The way Teo is going in this Combine, he might end up being available for our second-round pic and I'm not exaggerating ? His 40 time @ 4.8+ is very unimpressive, and his overall athleticism is average. And at 240 he's also smaller than advertised and with all of this baggage with this internet controversy on the imaginary girlfriend, who needs the drama ? Well but wait, he did go to ND so for the fighting Irish fans he's still got that going for him.

Without a doubt Teo's combine has disappointed, but I think its being blown out of proportion a bit as it seems some want to see him fail & are highlighting his every shortcoming now. For example, his 4.8 40 is not that far off from the 4.75 many predicted he would do. A difference but not one of huge proportions imo. He was predicted as 1st round talent based on his game tape as were others such as Minter & Demontre Moore & yet we are hearing very little about Minter's 4.8 40 or Moore's 4.9 40 coupled w/ his lackluster 12 reps of 225lbs. Moore was predicted to be a top 15 pick by some as a DE or OLB in the 3-4 & those numbers are just pathetic imo. Other players who were once deemed 1st rounders are coming up short at the combine just as Teo & its not being given near the attention. Teo may not be 1st round talent & he may have been overrated, but he's hardly the only one when its all said & done.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 10:00 AM
With this much yak going on about Te'o, there's no doubt in my mind he will be the Houston Texans selection at 27. Just one more reason for this fan base to pile it on.

badboy
02-26-2013, 11:18 AM
Hard as hell to nail down at this point.

Really depends on what players are available and what teams like player X enough to move up.

I definately wouldnt be against a move back to the top 8-10 of round two because I think those positions most believe the Texans would be targeting have value well beyond that point. (Jenkins or Short) (DeAndre Hopkins or Da'Rick Rogers)

Also depends on what the compensation for the swap would be other than that #2. Future first ? additional picks in this draft ?!Example: a swap with KC #27 for their 2nd and 4th. I'd be all over that and Chiefs need a lot. I'd use that 4th and our 3rd & 5th to get another high second. Da'Rick Rogers, Brandon Williams and probably an OLB as I think Barwin is gone.

Corrosion
02-26-2013, 11:46 AM
Example: a swap with KC #27 for their 2nd and 4th. I'd be all over that and Chiefs need a lot. I'd use that 4th and our 3rd & 5th to get another high second. Da'Rick Rogers, Brandon Williams and probably an OLB as I think Barwin is gone.

I'd jump at the opportunity at three #2's in this draft.


You like Brandon Williams over the other DT prospects : Jenkins , Short , Hankins and Jesse Williams ? Or is that because you think the others are gone ?
I really like Jenkins in the middle of a 3-4. He also played against the very best competition playing in the SEC. That Georgia defense game Alabama all it could handle with Jenkins being a big part of that .... and thats about as close to NFL competition as it gets. (No one game does not a player make).

tru80texan
02-26-2013, 12:02 PM
I'd jump at the opportunity at three #2's in this draft.


You like Brandon Williams over the other DT prospects : Jenkins , Short , Hankins and Jesse Williams ? Or is that because you think the others are gone ?
I really like Jenkins in the middle of a 3-4. He also played against the very best competition playing in the SEC. That Georgia defense game Alabama all it could handle with Jenkins being a big part of that .... and thats about as close to NFL competition as it gets. (No one game does not a player make).

My issue w/ Jenkins is his motor, which seems to be listed by many as one of his cons. Watching him at the Senior Bowl practices he seemed to give up or go thru the motions if he didn't get penetration on his intial burst off of the line. He was nuetralized by more then one o-lineman during their 1 on 1 drills. His size will be rendered useless if he doesn't have a motor,imo, which kinda reminds me of Frank Okam. I love his size, but his motor is a huge concern to me. That being said, I kinda do prefer B Williams, J Williams, & Hankins over Jenkins. I left Short off because of his weight(299lbs). My hope is the Texans can finally get a big body to fill that middle instead of the lighter guys Wade is accustomed to using.

greekdbag
02-26-2013, 03:22 PM
My issue w/ Jenkins is his motor, which seems to be listed by many as one of his cons. Watching him at the Senior Bowl practices he seemed to give up or go thru the motions if he didn't get penetration on his intial burst off of the line. He was nuetralized by more then one o-lineman during their 1 on 1 drills. His size will be rendered useless if he doesn't have a motor,imo, which kinda reminds me of Frank Okam. I love his size, but his motor is a huge concern to me. That being said, I kinda do prefer B Williams, J Williams, & Hankins over Jenkins. I left Short off because of his weight(299lbs). My hope is the Texans can finally get a big body to fill that middle instead of the lighter guys Wade is accustomed to using.

And didn't Georgia give up over 300 rushing yards to Bama? Bama ran all over them.

badboy
02-26-2013, 06:02 PM
I'd jump at the opportunity at three #2's in this draft.


You like Brandon Williams over the other DT prospects : Jenkins , Short , Hankins and Jesse Williams ? Or is that because you think the others are gone ?
I really like Jenkins in the middle of a 3-4. He also played against the very best competition playing in the SEC. That Georgia defense game Alabama all it could handle with Jenkins being a big part of that .... and thats about as close to NFL competition as it gets. (No one game does not a player make).Since the new CBA changing rookie contract, negligible cost in trading up for a team; two firsts or three seconds, etc. Hankins is gone.

I have yet to see a game that Brandon Williams disappointed me. Not so with the others especially Jenkins. I am pretty hard to sway from my opinion and he just looks slow and fat. He admits to 370 during championship game although he has reduced to 346, I just see him as having future weight issues. Just the opposite with Sylvester Williams who trimmed to 313 and continually seems to get better. I was an early fan and mocked Jesse Williams when others were saying he'd be third round at best. As I continued to watch him in 2012, he just seemed to be "there" but did little. He serves my main goal of a Nose by filling the hole but almost never puts his hands up in passing lanes. I came to realize he just lacks good laterals and he is not as efficient as I want in getting ball carrier to the ground. Expect him to be gone.

Short: this one has tied me up in more debates with his fans who insist he can do well at NT vs DT. I say no but would be cautiously optimistic. He definitely has motor.

Mayock has Sylvester rated top 5 & Brandon not listed but I know what I want. I will be putting out my post combine soon and Da'Rick Rogers will be first and Brandon second selected (preferably after a trade from #27). Those are my guys and I'm not concerned with any claims of "reaching".

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Example: a swap with KC #27 for their 2nd and 4th. I'd be all over that and Chiefs need a lot. I'd use that 4th and our 3rd & 5th to get another high second. Da'Rick Rogers, Brandon Williams and probably an OLB as I think Barwin is gone.

You want to move down 7 spots, out of the first, & all it's going to cost them is a 4th round pick? Does the math work out for this? It doesn't sound good to me.

Edit (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php)
Our 27 is worth 680 pts. Their 2nd is worth 560 their 4th is worth 108. We're giving up 680 pts for their 668 pts.

I'd like another 2nd rounder & the 2nd pick of the second is attractive, but I'd think they'd have to sweeten it a bit to make it worth our wild..... we're giving up a first round pick.

Edit Edit if they throw in their 5th (43 pts) that would up their side to 711. their 711 for my 680 looks a lot better if we're getting out of the first all together.

badboy
02-26-2013, 06:29 PM
You want to move down 7 spots, out of the first, & all it's going to cost them is a 4th round pick? Does the math work out for this? It doesn't sound good to me.

Edit
Our 27 is worth 680 pts. Their 2nd is worth 560 their 4th is worth 108. We're giving up 680 pts for their 668 pts.

I'd like another 2nd rounder & the 2nd pick of the second is attractive, but I'd think they'd have to sweeten it a bit to make it worth our wild..... we're giving up a first round pick.

Edit Edit if they throw in their 5th (43 pts) that would up their side to 711. their 711 for my 680 looks a lot better if we're getting out of the first all together.Look at the trade as the # 27 for the #33 + a 4th. Ask for another low rounder but DO NOT hold up a deal for 32 points. Same players I want should be avail #33 + I get either another decent pick in high 4th or in my dream scenario I bundle our 3rd, 4th from KC and a 5th for a high second round.

Remember those points are only good if the other team agrees.

thunderkyss
02-26-2013, 07:12 PM
Look at the trade as the # 27 for the #33 + a 4th. Ask for another low rounder but DO NOT hold up a deal for 32 points. Same players I want should be avail #33 + I get either another decent pick in high 4th or in my dream scenario I bundle our 3rd, 4th from KC and a 5th for a high second round.

Remember those points are only good if the other team agrees.

I understand. But, I would think the Chiefs would be wanting to trade into the first more than we would want to trade out, meaning the trade should be favorable to us. Value wise, I'm not seeing #34 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000143400/article/2013-nfl-draft-order) & #98 passing the red face test.

I'd rather this year's 2nd & next year's 2nd (which should value like this year's 3rd).

badboy
03-02-2013, 05:50 PM
A second round next season fixes nothing now and Texans should be in a now mode this season. I want the 4 to combine for another trade into second round. Anyway, the KC second is gone.

mussop
03-02-2013, 06:27 PM
How about our first for Arizonas second and fourth? If Short or one of the other to top DTs fall I would take them in a heart beat. If they are all go e I would seriously try and trade back and get as many picks in the top 100 as I could.

Corrosion
03-02-2013, 08:18 PM
How about our first for Arizonas second and fourth? If Short or one of the other to top DTs fall I would take them in a heart beat. If they are all go e I would seriously try and trade back and get as many picks in the top 100 as I could.

Even if all the top DT's are gone , which I dont think is likely (we've talked about at least 5 different players at 27 not including the top 2) as there are quite a few with 1st round talent in this draft I'd be Ok with a move back as you still have several needs to fill , maybe one of the ILB's falls to you or a guy like Amerson who can play CB/FS and you still have WR to fill.

badboy
03-04-2013, 04:44 PM
Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.

mussop
03-04-2013, 06:42 PM
Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.

Let me guess, McLaim? :ahhaha:

badboy
03-04-2013, 07:13 PM
Let me guess, McLaim? :ahhaha:No have not listened to McClain in quite some time. Really hard to define, just reading through comments by McNair, Smith, Kubiak and Phillips. Watching how the team is responding or not to player situations, etc. A few comments I do not want to address at this time. Sure hope I am wrong.

skenney_11
03-04-2013, 07:34 PM
no have not listened to mcclain in quite some time. Really hard to define, just reading through comments by mcnair, smith, kubiak and phillips. Watching how the team is responding or not to player situations, etc. A few comments i do not want to address at this time. Sure hope i am wrong.

gulp

thunderkyss
03-04-2013, 07:35 PM
Let me guess, McLaim? :ahhaha:

As many picks & FAs we've brought in to play DE or DT or OLB, compared to the number of NTs we've brought in makes me believe NT is not high on the Texans list of wants.

I understand & agree that we need "better" more "traditional" play from the position, but the Texans appear to be getting what they want from the guys they've got. I don't understand it. I've been trying to make sense of it, but have come up short.

But I would be surprised if we take a NT early in this draft. AAMoF, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of Crick at NT with Jamison returning.

Wolf6151
03-05-2013, 02:26 AM
Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.

I've been getting this feeling as well through things I've heard and read, nothing specific, but just putting 2 and 2 together. I sure hope we're wrong. Mitchell did play well toward the end of last season but it's not enough to hang your hat on and say he's a day 1 starter. Also this is a very deep DT class with some very good quality in the early rounds as well and the Texans would be fools to not take advantage of what the draft gives you. I think WR and NT are the 2 biggest needs even if we do lose Quin to FA. I think Safety/CB then becomes a 3rd round need.

badboy
03-05-2013, 09:18 AM
I've been getting this feeling as well through things I've heard and read, nothing specific, but just putting 2 and 2 together. I sure hope we're wrong. Mitchell did play well toward the end of last season but it's not enough to hang your hat on and say he's a day 1 starter. Also this is a very deep DT class with some very good quality in the early rounds as well and the Texans would be fools to not take advantage of what the draft gives you. I think WR and NT are the 2 biggest needs even if we do lose Quin to FA. I think Safety/CB then becomes a 3rd round need.

Start a rookie at Nose, ILB and safety?

tru80texan
03-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Start a rookie at Nose, ILB and safety?

Doubtful at all 3, but I could see 2 of the 3. I've mentioned in the past that I dont think the Texans will select NT or RT w/ the 1st pick. I can't see them giving up on Newton to go w/ a rookie after just 1 season. It takes Kubiak a bit longer then most to learn a lesson or figure out something isn't working out. That's why Marciano is still on the staff, why McNair had to hire Wade, & why they are finally looking at getting a decent wr to replace Walter. I do agree 1 year doesn't tell the tale on Newton, but there doesn't seem to be much of a backup plan if he continues to struggle.

As far as Mitchell, Wade likes the smaller NT's & if he insisted on starting Cody, who was virtually ineffective, why wouldn't we believe that he wouldn't be statisfied w/ starting Mitchell who, IMO, has more to offer then Cody. They may draft someone late to backup Mitchell & rotate w/ him, but I don't see a 1st round pick on the position in the cards. The owner has spoken & I expect them to listen w/ it either being a WR, LB, & now possibly a S if Quin is allowed to walk.

tru80texan
03-05-2013, 10:21 AM
As many picks & FAs we've brought in to play DE or DT or OLB, compared to the number of NTs we've brought in makes me believe NT is not high on the Texans list of wants.

I understand & agree that we need "better" more "traditional" play from the position, but the Texans appear to be getting what they want from the guys they've got. I don't understand it. I've been trying to make sense of it, but have come up short.

But I would be surprised if we take a NT early in this draft. AAMoF, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of Crick at NT with Jamison returning.

I agree that NT doesn't seem to be high on their list, but unless Crick gains 10-15lbs i can't see him being used at NT considering his current weight is listed at the mid 280's. At that weight he's a DE. Unless of course you are referring to those mystery sites that listed Antonio at 295lbs & they too have Crick as weighing more. JK :user:

badboy
03-05-2013, 10:54 AM
Starting Mitchel and allowing more work for McClain and the UH kids at nose may be in the cards. I still see a cheap FA being signed.

thunderkyss
03-05-2013, 04:46 PM
Unless of course you are referring to those mystery sites that listed Antonio at 295lbs & they too have Crick as weighing more. JK :user:

:foottap:

mussop
03-05-2013, 11:41 PM
As far as Mitchell, Wade likes the smaller NT's & if he insisted on starting Cody, who was virtually ineffective, why wouldn't we believe that he wouldn't be statisfied w/ starting Mitchell who, IMO, has more to offer then Cody. They may draft someone late to backup Mitchell & rotate w/ him, but I don't see a 1st round pick on the position in the cards. The owner has spoken & I expect them to listen w/ it either being a WR, LB, & now possibly a S if Quin is allowed to walk.

What were his other options?

76Texan
03-06-2013, 12:39 PM
BB (and all), where do you see the big guy Jenkins from Georgia at this moment?

What range of the draft?

Corrosion
03-06-2013, 12:57 PM
As far as Mitchell, Wade likes the smaller NT's

Thats about as far from the truth as you can get .... He's said on multiple occasions that he would like to have a big ugly nasty SOB in the middle but he can make do without that guy.

Just take a look at some of the guy's he has had elsewhere .... Some big , some not.

badboy
03-06-2013, 04:55 PM
BB (and all), where do you see the big guy Jenkins from Georgia at this moment?

What range of the draft?I am sure most have John Jenkins rated higher than me; I know CBS does at high second round. I do not want him for Texans, period. Looking back over my evaluations of him during the season, he just did not appear to be a factor. This from Mayock:

NFL Network's Mike Mayock called Georgia NT John Jenkins' hot-and-cold motor the biggest concern for Jenkins' NFL outlook."When he's healthy, when he's not winded, when he turns that motor on, it's special," Mayock said. "And you want him to be your 3-4 nose tackle or your nose shade in the 4-3. You want this kid as a two-gapping run stuffer. You want him pushing the pocket. But too often, you don't see that." Motor is often a concern for mammoth defensive linemen. Jenkins weighed in at an unruly 6-foot-3 7/8 and 359 pounds this week. Jan 24 - 3:18 PM


76 I do know others rated him high after senior bowl and I evaluated as "FAT, SLOW". I guess if you can convince the opponent to run the play at him, he would be ok. He will go higher but I rate him just above Montori Hughes (skills- not head) in 4th. Another issue is his weight. IIRC, he blossomed up to 370 before dieting. I hope Prisco is correct and he goes #17 and pushes someone down.

steelbtexan
03-06-2013, 09:20 PM
Somebody will pick Jenkins in the late 1st early 2nd. I hope it's not the Texans. Jenkins failure to hold up against the run vs Alabama make him a late 2nd/early 3rd if I were drafting.

76Texan
03-06-2013, 10:05 PM
I guess playing at 370 lbs against Alabama didn't help, but I thought the rest of the line and the LBs were doing worse.

He still got plenty of production out of that game though; 3 tackles (including a sack), 3 assists, and a QB pressure. That's a lot for a big guy.
And he played something like 55, 56 snaps at that weight; not that I prefer it (the weigh) but it's still noteworthy that he showed some quickness even at that weight, too.

I think I'm putting him somewhere in the mid second round.
He checked in at 356 something at the Senior Bowl and looked pretty good.

Could be a boom or bust here, I think.
If he can manage his weight, I think he'll be quite good; if not, well, we all know what it means.

How did he handle the drills at the combine?
When is his pro day? Late this month?

I think I'll wait until then to finalize my take on him.

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 10:50 PM
What were his other options?

Mitchell maybe...let's not act as if Cody was a dominant force that couldn't easily be replaced. Wade has ultimately decided not to have other options & decided Cody & Mitchell were adequate as many of us have hoped for better alternatives since Wade has arrived.

Thats about as far from the truth as you can get .... He's said on multiple occasions that he would like to have a big ugly nasty SOB in the middle but he can make do without that guy.

Just take a look at some of the guy's he has had elsewhere .... Some big , some not.

And that's exactly what he has done since roughly 2000. His biggest guy was Tank Johnson in Arlington & he weighed around 315lbs. It's been said on multiple occasions by multiple sources that Wade operates w/ the smaller NT's. That seems to be the case for a little over a decade now. I'm sure we can go back 20+ years & find examples that prove your case, BUT Wade's RECENT actions, a decade or less, have shown him to fill his NT position w/ the smaller 300-315lb players as opposed to the 330-360lb monsters some of us have desired.

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 10:54 PM
I am sure most have John Jenkins rated higher than me; I know CBS does at high second round. I do not want him for Texans, period. Looking back over my evaluations of him during the season, he just did not appear to be a factor. This from Mayock:

NFL Network's Mike Mayock called Georgia NT John Jenkins' hot-and-cold motor the biggest concern for Jenkins' NFL outlook."When he's healthy, when he's not winded, when he turns that motor on, it's special," Mayock said. "And you want him to be your 3-4 nose tackle or your nose shade in the 4-3. You want this kid as a two-gapping run stuffer. You want him pushing the pocket. But too often, you don't see that." Motor is often a concern for mammoth defensive linemen. Jenkins weighed in at an unruly 6-foot-3 7/8 and 359 pounds this week. Jan 24 - 3:18 PM


76 I do know others rated him high after senior bowl and I evaluated as "FAT, SLOW". I guess if you can convince the opponent to run the play at him, he would be ok. He will go higher but I rate him just above Montori Hughes (skills- not head) in 4th. Another issue is his weight. IIRC, he blossomed up to 370 before dieting. I hope Prisco is correct and he goes #17 and pushes someone down.

I am not a Jenkins fan. He lacks a motor in the worst way & showed it during Senior Bowl practices. He had a few shining moments, but if he wasnt shining he wasn't working at all. I hope he's not on the Texans radar.

mussop
03-06-2013, 11:47 PM
Mitchell maybe...let's not act as if Cody was a dominant force that couldn't easily be replaced. Wade has ultimately decided not to have other options & decided Cody & Mitchell were adequate as many of us have hoped for better alternatives since Wade has arrived.

Cody has been nothing but average. Still he is better than Mitchell. Weade has "decided" not to have other options? How do you know what options Wade has had to choose from? I can only see three.

1.) Cody is a FA and injured. So Wade can go into next season starting a guy who couldn't beat out a very average Cody with hope we pick up a decent rotation player later in the draft or a cheap one in FA. We don't have the money to get a quality one.

2.) Or we can draft a good DT in a deep draft for DT's that can push Mitchell early and get significant minutes and eventually (hopefully sooner than later), take over the starting job and put Mitchell back to second string where he belongs.

3.) See if we can talk a really good veteran (Seymour) to come in and play for cheap for a chance at a championship.

If Wade chooses number one we are going to be taking a step backwards.

tru80texan
03-07-2013, 10:36 AM
Cody has been nothing but average. Still he is better than Mitchell. Weade has "decided" not to have other options? How do you know what options Wade has had to choose from? I can only see three.

1.) Cody is a FA and injured. So Wade can go into next season starting a guy who couldn't beat out a very average Cody with hope we pick up a decent rotation player later in the draft or a cheap one in FA. We don't have the money to get a quality one.

2.) Or we can draft a good DT in a deep draft for DT's that can push Mitchell early and get significant minutes and eventually (hopefully sooner than later), take over the starting job and put Mitchell back to second string where he belongs.

3.) See if we can talk a really good veteran (Seymour) to come in and play for cheap for a chance at a championship.

If Wade chooses number one we are going to be taking a step backwards.

Here are some stats from 2012 to ponder:
Mitchell. Cody
Tackles- 31. Tackles- 17
Passes defended-3. Passes defended-2
Forced Fumbles-1. Forced fumbles-0
Games Started- 3. Games Started- 12

Let's see...now which player looks better of the 2. :thinking:

I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell was the better player despite starting 9 less games. Just because one player isn't starting because they so-called couldn't beat "a very average player" doesn't necessarily mean the best player was on the field IMO. I think Walter is a good example of that as well, so it's not unheard of that a lesser player is named a starter when there are other options who could possibly be better but not necessarily given the opportunity. Cody obviously did less w/ more opportunity & Cody is by far anything, but "average". I think you are using that term very loosely in describing Cody's play. "Mediocre" would probably be a better term for Cody as his backup outperformed him.

How you can claim Cody was better then Mitchell based on the stats is beyond me & quite laughable to be honest. Mitchell is still very young & has shown improvement & yet some how you feel the Texans could be better equipped w/ Cody manning the middle & act as if the Texans are doomed if it's Mitchell ,because he nothing but a backup by your assessment, in the middle despite him outproducing Cody. How can you honestly say a position is taking a step back by finally inserting the player that actually produced more is a bit backwards in the thought process IMO, but to each their own.:kitten:


I personally feel better w/ Mitchell in the middle, but I will miss Cody's "On the Nose" episodes.

badboy
03-07-2013, 06:06 PM
Here are some stats from 2012 to ponder:
Mitchell. Cody
Tackles- 31. Tackles- 17
Passes defended-3. Passes defended-2
Forced Fumbles-1. Forced fumbles-0
Games Started- 3. Games Started- 12

Let's see...now which player looks better of the 2. :thinking:

I think it's pretty obvious Mitchell was the better player despite starting 9 less games. Just because one player isn't starting because they so-called couldn't beat "a very average player" doesn't necessarily mean the best player was on the field IMO. I think Walter is a good example of that as well, so it's not unheard of that a lesser player is named a starter when there are other options who could possibly be better but not necessarily given the opportunity. Cody obviously did less w/ more opportunity & Cody is by far anything, but "average". I think you are using that term very loosely in describing Cody's play. "Mediocre" would probably be a better term for Cody as his backup outperformed him.

How you can claim Cody was better then Mitchell based on the stats is beyond me & quite laughable to be honest. Mitchell is still very young & has shown improvement & yet some how you feel the Texans could be better equipped w/ Cody manning the middle & act as if the Texans are doomed if it's Mitchell ,because he nothing but a backup by your assessment, in the middle despite him outproducing Cody. How can you honestly say a position is taking a step back by finally inserting the player that actually produced more is a bit backwards in the thought process IMO, but to each their own.:kitten:


I personally feel better w/ Mitchell in the middle, but I will miss Cody's "On the Nose" episodes.Not speaking for Mussop but I think NT is one of those positions that you lean lightly on stats and heavy on watching the plays. IMO, Cody was better than Mitchell even with his back problems until late in season. I think Cody just wore down & was not able to handle too much more pain killer. Question is will Mitchell maintain and improve in '13 what we saw in last few games? We either need a very good NT or an outstanding ILB. Neither will be drafted in first and maybe not second rounds.

tru80texan
03-07-2013, 06:40 PM
Not speaking for Mussop but I think NT is one of those positions that you lean lightly on stats and heavy on watching the plays. IMO, Cody was better than Mitchell even with his back problems until late in season. I think Cody just wore down & was not able to handle too much more pain killer. Question is will Mitchell maintain and improve in '13 what we saw in last few games? We either need a very good NT or an outstanding ILB. Neither will be drafted in first and maybe not second rounds.

I actually see this in quite the opposite light. NT is position that is normally tougher to accumulate stats & thus one that is capable of compiling some decent numbers has really done some work fighting on the inside. Mitchell produced the most of the 2 having less playing time. Plain & simple. There were slim to no games that I thought Cody absolutely stood out & was heads & tails above Mitchell & the numbers seem to support that. Now I also knew the injury excuse would rear it's ugly head for Cody, but Mitchell slightly outperformed Cody in 2011 as well, which was only Mitchell's 2nd season. For the last 2 seasons Mitchell has out performed Cody in limited action. Cody has never been a real force & whether he wore down or not is subjective because to be honest Cody's production has been limited for quite some time regardless of his health status, so how would we judge his disappearing act in 2012 when it is all to similar to his performances of years past.

As I said before, I don't think Cody was necessarily the better option. Mitchell has shown improvement though out the years & it will be hard to convince most that the player w/ less playing time & better stats is the worst of the 2 options. I also have a hard time believing that this position will suffer from the statistically better player finally getting the opportunity to play more & thus potentially produce more. That thought process simply doesn't make sense imo. Even if you somehow based your opinion off of what you watched only...it still doesn't say Cody was the better of the 2 IMO. I too watch games, some multiple times, & simply haven't seen Cody as ever being an irreplaceable force in the middle...in fact it always been quite the opposite.

thunderkyss
03-07-2013, 07:16 PM
Not speaking for Mussop but I think NT is one of those positions that you lean lightly on stats and heavy on watching the plays. IMO, Cody was better than Mitchell even with his back problems until late in season. I think Cody just wore down & was not able to handle too much more pain killer. Question is will Mitchell maintain and improve in '13 what we saw in last few games? We either need a very good NT or an outstanding ILB. Neither will be drafted in first and maybe not second rounds.

It depends on what you want. Mitchell penetrated the line & got off blocks better, which you would think we want. Cody held his ground better, & didn't get pushed around as easily. Which I think bottle necked run plays & freed up the ILBs.

mussop
03-07-2013, 07:16 PM
I actually see this in quite the opposite light. NT is position that is normally tougher to accumulate stats & thus one that is capable of compiling some decent numbers has really done some work fighting on the inside. Mitchell produced the most of the 2 having less playing time. Plain & simple. There were slim to no games that I thought Cody absolutely stood out & was heads & tails above Mitchell & the numbers seem to support that. Now I also knew the injury excuse would rear it's ugly head for Cody, but Mitchell slightly outperformed Cody in 2011 as well, which was only Mitchell's 2nd season. For the last 2 seasons Mitchell has out performed Cody in limited action. Cody has never been a real force & whether he wore down or not is subjective because to be honest Cody's production has been limited for quite some time regardless of his health status, so how would we judge his disappearing act in 2012 when it is all to similar to his performances of years past.

As I said before, I don't think Cody was necessarily the better option. Mitchell has shown improvement though out the years & it will be hard to convince most that the player w/ less playing time & better stats is the worst of the 2 options. I also have a hard time believing that this position will suffer from the statistically better player finally getting the opportunity to play more & thus potentially produce more. That thought process simply doesn't make sense imo. Even if you somehow based your opinion off of what you watched only...it still doesn't say Cody was the better of the 2 IMO. I too watch games, some multiple times, & simply haven't seen Cody as ever being an irreplaceable force in the middle...in fact it always been quite the opposite.

Who ever said Cody wasn't replaceable? IMO he is the Kevin Walter of the defense. When I said average that wasn't a complement. To me average is serviceable. That's all he's ever been. Yet Mitchell hasn't been able to take his starting spot. I don't give a rats patuty about stats.

Using stats to compare players is like using the combine to rate prospects. It just doesn't tell the whole story. Especially when you hand pick the ones that suite your point of view. I find it laughable that you think digging up a few stats off the Internet should hold more weight than a really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator opinion. But hey to each his own.

Cody is most likely done here and that (at this point) moves Mitchell to the starting role. If all we do is bring in a cheap FA or low round draft pick to back him up we are in trouble. That's my opinion. So we will just have to agree to dissagree.

We will find out soon enough who is right.

mussop
03-07-2013, 07:26 PM
It depends on what you want. Mitchell penetrated the line & got off blocks better, which you would think we want. Cody held his ground better, & didn't get pushed around as easily. Which I think bottle necked run plays & freed up the ILBs.

I beleive wade would prefer a penetrator. But that player has to be able to hold up against the run better than what Mitchell showed. That's the reason he couldn't beat out an average player in Cody.

tru80texan
03-07-2013, 10:41 PM
Who ever said Cody wasn't replaceable? IMO he is the Kevin Walter of the defense. When I said average that wasn't a complement. To me average is serviceable. That's all he's ever been. Yet Mitchell hasn't been able to take his starting spot. I don't give a rats patuty about stats.

Using stats to compare players is like using the combine to rate prospects. It just doesn't tell the whole story. Especially when you hand pick the ones that suite your point of view. I find it laughable that you think digging up a few stats off the Internet should hold more weight than a really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator opinion. But hey to each his own.

Cody is most likely done here and that (at this point) moves Mitchell to the starting role. If all we do is bring in a cheap FA or low round draft pick to back him up we are in trouble. That's my opinion. So we will just have to agree to dissagree.

We will find out soon enough who is right.

So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying. :potkettle:

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol! :rolleyes:

mussop
03-08-2013, 01:40 PM
So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying. :potkettle:

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol! :rolleyes:

Really? Ok! First off let me clarify that IMO Walter is serviceable. He is good at the basic skill needed to play WR in this offense, blocking. That is why he continues to start over other WRs that probably as good as him at catching the ball and Even better at YAC.

Now back to Cody. He starts over Mitchell even though mitchell is better at penetrating because he is at least average against the run. If Mitchell was even half way decent at stopping the run he WOULD of been starting the last two years. He's not so be hasn't. It's that simple and no stat you have shown says different.


You want some stats that back that up? Def snaps last year, Mitchell, 397 / Cody, 257. Kinda makes you look stupid for throwing out games started vs tackles as evidence that Mitchell is better than Cody don't you think?

beerlover
03-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Cody is a savvy vet who understands gap responsibility. Earl uses his explosiveness to dis-engage blocking scheme, usually just redirected but does get into space & pursue.

mussop
03-08-2013, 04:54 PM
So let's see, you call Cody the defenses "Kevin Walter"....can't say I disagree. In fact, I agree 100%, but what confuses me is that you later say that you find it laughable that I question a "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" based on stats. Well, that's interesting because I think at least I offered stats as a reasoning for questioning the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator" while you offered nothing more then your opinion & it seems you questioned him as well. By simply referring to Cody as the "Kevin Walter" of the defense, that by popular opinion means that Cody is an underperforming starter who does not necessarily deserve to be a starter & should/ needs to be replaced w/ a worthy alternative. That somewhat sounds like you too question the "really good personel man/ professional defensive coordinator", but chose a different way to express it. It the end it seems to be the same...just saying. :potkettle:

We can agree to disagree. How we will know who will be right or wrong when it's all said & done is beyond me though since you seem to disregard stats as if they have no significance. I beg to differ. If Mitchell simply averages more than 1 tackle a game next season then it would seem I prevailed, but I'm sure you have different standards that will sway it in your direction in your opinion & somehow glorify Cody's 17 tackles this past season & trump Mitchell's production. Lol! :rolleyes:

Cody is a savvy vet who understands gap responsibility. Earl uses his explosiveness to dis-engage blocking scheme, usually just redirected but does get into space & pursue.

But but according to miss leading stats Mitchell is better and should start. :fingergun:

tru80texan
03-09-2013, 11:11 AM
Really? Ok! First off let me clarify that IMO Walter is serviceable. He is good at the basic skill needed to play WR in this offense, blocking. That is why he continues to start over other WRs that probably as good as him at catching the ball and Even better at YAC.

Now back to Cody. He starts over Mitchell even though mitchell is better at penetrating because he is at least average against the run. If Mitchell was even half way decent at stopping the run he WOULD of been starting the last two years. He's not so be hasn't. It's that simple and no stat you have shown says different.


You want some stats that back that up? Def snaps last year, Mitchell, 397 / Cody, 257. Kinda makes you look stupid for throwing out games started vs tackles as evidence that Mitchell is better than Cody don't you think?

By far the weakest & most pathetic excuse for starting an underperforming wr w/ slim to no play making ability. So why doesnt every NFL team start at least 1 of their best blocking wr's as opposed to a playmaker...maybe because it only makes sense in Kubiak's world. Thank GOODNESS the owner has once again stepped in to guide Kubiak in what he needs to do, get a playmaking WR opposite of AJ, to get this team moving in the right direction because some how even some fans are starting to foolishly believe Walter is "good" & deserves to start simply because he can block. Talk about something looking stupid. :toropalm:

As far as Mitchell, he still produced the most amongst the 2. Ok, so he had more snaps according you(a link wouldve been nice but I trust you:rolleyes:) but started less & it still equated to him being the most productive & obviously Wade felt the same because he put him in the game more over Cody. So, are you still questioning Wade? After all Wade is the good personel guy/ professional DC & if you are questioning him...well by your admission that is quite laughable.

Needless to say, we will continue to agree to disagree on both Mitchell & let's go ahead & add Walter. Best blocker deserves to be a starter...wow. Only in Houston. :kitten:

mussop
03-09-2013, 04:53 PM
By far the weakest & most pathetic excuse for starting an underperforming wr w/ slim to no play making ability. So why doesnt every NFL team start at least 1 of their best blocking wr's as opposed to a playmaker...maybe because it only makes sense in Kubiak's world.

Well if you are a run first team and there are already 4 solid receiving options you better at least be able to run block.

Thank GOODNESS the owner has once again stepped in to guide Kubiak in what he needs to do, get a playmaking WR opposite of AJ, to get this team moving in the right direction because some how even some fans are starting to foolishly believe Walter is "good" & deserves to start simply because he can block. Talk about something looking stupid. :toropalm:

If you are refering to me you are making a big assumption.

As far as Mitchell, he still produced the most amongst the 2. Ok, so he had more snaps according you(a link wouldve been nice but I trust you:rolleyes:) but started less & it still equated to him being the most productive & obviously Wade felt the same because he put him in the game more over Cody. So, are you still questioning Wade? After all Wade is the good personel guy/ professional DC & if you are questioning him...well by your admission that is quite laughable.

For the bold-There is this new thing called a search engine. It's really cool, all you do is type in what you are looking for and it gives you links that match what you are looking for. Since you obviously don't know what this is or how to use it I'll help you out. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Now back to Cody. Like I said several times. If Mitchell could do the basics he would of been the starter two years ago. You cant start a guy at NT who can't stop the run. That is his primary job. The reason he (Mitchell) played more snaps is because he is a better penetrator therefore was the better option on passing downs.

There is no reason to question Wade for doing that. Its the smart thing to do. To think otherwise is laughable. :kitten: The fact that he (Mitchell) is a better option on passing downs yet still can't beat out an "average" player like Cody for the starting job (who is really nothing but a smart player who knows his gap responsibility and holds up IMO below average against the run) should prove that Mitchell isn't good enough to be the full time starter. I can't see why that is so hard to grasp.

to say, we will continue to agree to disagree on both Mitchell & let's go ahead & add Walter. Best blocker deserves to be a starter...wow. Only in Houston. :kitten:

Seriously? :rolleyes: Did I ever say I agree with that philosophy? NOPE, SURE DIDN'T!!! Just saying that is how it is. Wow only on a message board. :kitten:

badboy
03-09-2013, 05:29 PM
First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

mussop
03-10-2013, 11:45 AM
First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

No name calling going on here just a little :chili: debate. I normally agree with tru80texan on most subjects. He's a pretty smart guy. In the end we all want the same thing. :trophy:

Lucky
03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
I normally agree with tru80texan on most subjects. He's a pretty smart guy.
I'm certain he would agree with that. ;)

mussop
03-10-2013, 11:17 PM
First, I am not getting into name calling. Second I am not defending Cody and think he's gone so doesn't matter. I would prefer a Nose that can handle the run AND penetrate; Brandon or Sylvester Williams. Mitchell as a back up is ok but would rather see him at DE.

According to ourlands opposing teams ran the ball against us 336 times. 68% of those runs were between the guards. Most in the NFL. We better find someone in the middle that can stop the run. Maybe a big guy like Jenkins is the answer. Hankins is the closest thing in the middle.

steelbtexan
03-10-2013, 11:30 PM
If run blocking is that important at the WR position, then they should've moved Casey to WR. He's about as fast as Walter and a better blocker. They could've drafted a FB late in the draft.

mussop
03-10-2013, 11:39 PM
If run blocking is that important at the WR position, then they should've moved Casey to WR. He's about as fast as Walter and a better blocker. They could've drafted a FB late in the draft.

They need to use him more or not resign him thats for sure. Hopefully we will draft a WR this year to replace Walter.

And hopefully we will draft a NT that can hold up against the run well yet still get consistent penetration.

:snowday:

ObsiWan
03-10-2013, 11:53 PM
edit: Never mind

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 12:25 AM
They need to use him more or not resign him thats for sure. Hopefully we will draft a WR this year to replace Walter.

And hopefully we will draft a NT that can hold up against the run well yet still get consistent penetration.

:snowday:

This has never happened during the entire Kubiak regime.

Maybe BoB will make Gary address these needs. That seems to be the only way to get change within the Texans org.

badboy
03-11-2013, 07:14 PM
According to ourlands opposing teams ran the ball against us 336 times. 68% of those runs were between the guards. Most in the NFL. We better find someone in the middle that can stop the run. Maybe a big guy like Jenkins is the answer. Hankins is the closest thing in the middle.No to Jenkins. Hankins wears out quickly and relies too much on upper body strength rather than combining with his base. Jesse Williams if you want just a run stopper but probably cost you a first. Sylvester and Brandon do both and for a second round.

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 07:42 PM
But but according to miss leading stats Mitchell is better and should start. :fingergun:

I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

rmartin65
03-11-2013, 07:47 PM
I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

Ugh. That thought does not thrill me. I realize that the coaches and FO know a hell of a lot more than I do about football and their players, but still. My gut says this wont go over particularly well.

steelbtexan
03-11-2013, 08:14 PM
I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.

Which would be a mistake. This yrs crop of NT's is very good/deep. If nothing else they should pick one in rd 3-6 for depth purposes. If Mitchell were to get hurt and Crick became a full time starter at NT with no backup behingd him. All of the rest of the draft picks and improvements the Texans were to make would be for naught.

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 08:23 PM
Ugh. That thought does not thrill me. I realize that the coaches and FO know a hell of a lot more than I do about football and their players, but still. My gut says this wont go over particularly well.

Which would be a mistake. This yrs crop of NT's is very good/deep. If nothing else they should pick one in rd 3-6 for depth purposes. If Mitchell were to get hurt and Crick became a full time starter at NT with no backup behingd him. All of the rest of the draft picks and improvements the Texans were to make would be for naught.

Not saying I agree with doing that .... Just that I could see it being an option especially because of the cap situation and holes elsewhere.

I'd prefer that they draft a NT/DT in the top three rounds ....while letting Cody walk.

Lucky
03-11-2013, 08:35 PM
I think there is a possibility that the Texans do in fact start Mitchell this coming season and use ... Crick as his primary backup while not drafting a NT/DT with a significant pick.
Can Crick play NT? Are we sure Crick can play anything?

The Texans also have Terrell McClain and David Hunter under contract. Who knows what they think of them? I think they'll draft a NT, but who knows where? I don't see a high pick used on what will likely be a rotational player.

Corrosion
03-11-2013, 11:56 PM
Can Crick play NT? Are we sure Crick can play anything?

The Texans also have Terrell McClain and David Hunter under contract. Who knows what they think of them? I think they'll draft a NT, but who knows where? I don't see a high pick used on what will likely be a rotational player.

I dont know that Crick can play NT .... Its just one of the "rumors" Ive heard and it wasnt something that was set in stone , just a "possibility" , an option they have ....

Obviously WR and OT are going to be positions they have to take care of one way ot another as Newton is coming off surgery , Harris is a FA and .... they have no one else on the roster with NFL experience.
They also have questionmarks at ILB , OLB and Safety .... all pending FA decisions of course.

If I were forced to draft today without having completed free agency , I'd be looking at WR , OT with the first two picks , ILB and NT with the two 3rd rounders.
Ideally I'd like to move back from that #27 spot and pick up an extra 3rd. I think there is value at WR from the middle of the first all the way to the bottom of the second , a lot of guy's who just didnt seperate themselves at the combine.

I'd be satisfied with a draft of with those first four selections
Justin Hunter
Terron Armstead (hell he may go in the first round).
A.J. Klein
Brandon Williams

badboy
03-12-2013, 10:25 AM
Uh, oh..I am hearing that Texans are good with Mitchell starting at NT and would pick up either a cheap FA vet or DT 4th round or later (or both). Hard for me to accept that but if I take that as a fact then try to defend it, I'd say Mitchell did look much better at end of season. NTs are moving up boards and Texans may want to use top four picks for other positions. Also, Texans have not had a 'get to the passer' Nose and made it to playoffs. WR seems to be either a first or second and if Quin is not signed, a safety becomes a top 4 need.Looks like bolded may be firming up. If McNair insists on WR, Barwin goes and we need an OLB high, Derek Newton's knee is worse than I hope, Nose may move way down list of priorities. Not even including where safety comes in if Quin leaves. Draft is deep on DBs but do we go for a starter fourth round or later?

mussop
03-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Looks like bolded may be firming up. If McNair insists on WR, Barwin goes and we need an OLB high, Derek Newton's knee is worse than I hope, Nose may move way down list of priorities. Not even including where safety comes in if Quin leaves. Draft is deep on DBs but do we go for a starter fourth round or later?

You are making a lot of assumptions. Even if Mitchell does start we WILL bring in another NT and he will either be a free agent that will push him for the starting position or it will be a draft choice that is capable of being rotated with Mitchell.

My money is on Ryan Harris returning at T. If we lose Quin we will sign another FA safety.

mussop
03-12-2013, 11:33 AM
I dont know that Crick can play NT .... Its just one of the "rumors" Ive heard and it wasnt something that was set in stone , just a "possibility" , an option they have ....

Obviously WR and OT are going to be positions they have to take care of one way ot another as Newton is coming off surgery , Harris is a FA and .... they have no one else on the roster with NFL experience.
They also have questionmarks at ILB , OLB and Safety .... all pending FA decisions of course.

If I were forced to draft today without having completed free agency , I'd be looking at WR , OT with the first two picks , ILB and NT with the two 3rd rounders.
Ideally I'd like to move back from that #27 spot and pick up an extra 3rd. I think there is value at WR from the middle of the first all the way to the bottom of the second , a lot of guy's who just didnt seperate themselves at the combine.

I'd be satisfied with a draft of with those first four selections
Justin Hunter
Terron Armstead (hell he may go in the first round).
A.J. Klein
Brandon Williams

I think alot of people are really under estimating Brandon Williams. If he last till our second pick he would be a great value. I don't see any way he last till our third pick.

Wolf6151
03-12-2013, 04:31 PM
I think alot of people are really under estimating Brandon Williams. If he last till our second pick he would be a great value. I don't see any way he last till our third pick.

Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.

badboy
03-12-2013, 11:23 PM
You are making a lot of assumptions. Even if Mitchell does start we WILL bring in another NT and he will either be a free agent that will push him for the starting position or it will be a draft choice that is capable of being rotated with Mitchell.

My money is on Ryan Harris returning at T. If we lose Quin we will sign another FA safety.So no way Mitchell starts and is backed up by McClain or Hunter?

badboy
03-12-2013, 11:25 PM
Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.But what if he is gone? Who next? That's the problem.

steelbtexan
03-12-2013, 11:40 PM
But what if he is gone? Who next? That's the problem.

You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.

badboy
03-13-2013, 12:07 AM
You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.Disagree on Sylvester he will be gone by our third imo. I think Mayock has him rated higher than Brandon and top 5 DTs.

Corrosion
03-13-2013, 01:34 AM
You are looking at Spence,S.Williams,Jordan Hill,Bennie Logan.

This is why I would try to use a 4/6th and a 2014 4th rd pick. To move up and B.Williams.

If they lose Quin and Barwin in FA .... I dont think they can afford to give up picks totrade up. They already have holes at RT , ILB , WR and NT and now with Casey gone TE and FB .... Sure dont want to add OLB and Safety to that laundry list.

mussop
03-13-2013, 02:15 AM
Brandon Williams is currently listed at #74 which puts him in the top half of the 3rd round. I think he belongs in the 3rd round and could/should be available to us at #89. That's where I have him in my latest mock. I just think a guy jumping from D2 to the NFL is a project player and will take some time to develop and belongs in the 3rd round. Of course it only takes 1 crazy GM to overvalue the guy and he'd be gone by our pick.

We'll see.

mussop
03-13-2013, 02:26 AM
If they lose Quin and Barwin in FA .... I dont think they can afford to give up picks totrade up. They already have holes at RT , ILB , WR and NT and now with Casey gone TE and FB .... Sure dont want to add OLB and Safety to that laundry list.

Why? How much can you expect a fourth, fith or six round pick to contribute. Besides we will sign some free agents at some of those spots.

Corrosion
03-13-2013, 02:48 AM
Why? How much can you expect a fourth, fith or six round pick to contribute. Besides we will sign some free agents at some of those spots.

(4th) Depends on the position how much I expect them to contribute - a spot like ILB , C , FB or SS .... I'd expect to contribute more than a 4th rounder at a premium position.

Those positions and you could include OG to that list dont get the same early attention as some other spots and the talent can be found in the mid rounds.

CB , QB , OT , WR , OLB , DE ... No I dont expect a lot of production from a 4th rounder early on.


If they lose Quin and Barwin .... thats three heavy contributors (including Walter) they have to relace not to mention a need at RT either in front of or behind Newton.
Then you have James and Dobbins to replace ....


Yes , they'll sign several FA's but most will be cheap .... more roster filler than anything else.

mussop
03-13-2013, 04:10 AM
(4th) Depends on the position how much I expect them to contribute - a spot like ILB , C , FB or SS .... I'd expect to contribute more than a 4th rounder at a premium position.

Those positions and you could include OG to that list dont get the same early attention as some other spots and the talent can be found in the mid rounds.

CB , QB , OT , WR , OLB , DE ... No I dont expect a lot of production from a 4th rounder early on.


If they lose Quin and Barwin .... thats three heavy contributors (including Walter) they have to relace not to mention a need at RT either in front of or behind Newton.
Then you have James and Dobbins to replace ....


Yes , they'll sign several FA's but most will be cheap .... more roster filler than anything else.

That's usually what 5th, 6th and 7th round picks are if they even make the team. 4th rounders especially at the end of the round are iffy too.