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thunderkyss
02-02-2013, 12:22 PM
I think this is a very important issue that needs to be addressed & I'm very curious to see how this organization handles it. We've got options & we've talked about them in other threads, but I wanted to bring it all into one thread (If I were a mod, I'd merge them all here, but I'm not).

So, we're getting Cushing back.
That instantly upgrades the position.There are the obvious questions about his capacity to play to the level we've come to expect. Whether you're optimistic about the situation or not, the prudent thing to do would be to hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I'm not confident that our F.O. will handle this correctly, but I don't know what would be the "correct" way to address it. But heaven forbid we find ourselves in the same situation & struggle as badly trying to field 2 (not one) 2 ILBs.

Barrett Ruud
He'll be 30. I think he played well.... as well as Ray Maualuga in coverage. I would have liked to have seen him if he would have started with us through camp. I'm not advocating he makes the 53 right now, but I'd like to see him in the mix (with Sharpton, Dobbins & Reed) competing for a spot.

Draft
I've seen a few mocks suggest the Texans should use #27 on an ILB. And that's fine. But the way I look at the draft, anything less than a third rounder is a pipe dream & really more future oriented. We need help right now at WR, ILB, & OLB.... Plus I'd be extremely happy if we take a RT in the first three rounds (not a serious need, but it would say we are serious about getting better in the trenches). I think the Draft would be the least expensive way to address the position, but also the longest shot.

FA
This will probably be the most expensive path. I'm not too sure who all the FAs will be, but reading PFF from one of Playoffs links (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/01/next-man-up-2012a-biggest-losses-and-best-subs/2/),
Brad Jones, ILB, Green Bay Packers

The Packers lost one of their defensive leaders for the season when Desmond Bishop tore his hamstring in their first preseason game. Bishop’s play was a bit unbalanced in 2011. His 10.9% Run Stop and 11.5 Pass Rushing Productivity were both excellent marks, and his 17.6 Combined Tackle Efficiency was one of the highest in the league for his position. Yet he was torched in coverage — the 568 yards he surrendered were the third-most allowed by any inside linebacker. D.J. Smith proved to be a capable but inconsistent replacement before suffering his own knee injury in Week 6. Brad Jones was thrust into the starting lineup in his place and grabbed the opportunity by the horns. His +8.9 grade this season was the 10th-highest for an inside linebacker, and his 9.2% Run Stop was solid. More importantly, he surrendered just 273 yards in coverage, helping to shore up a pass defense that was much-improved this season. He was an integral part of the Packers’ playoff push, recording 21 tackles and 12 run stops in the final three weeks of the regular season. With his contract expiring, the 26-year-old Jones now ranks as one of our top inside linebackers available in free agency.
I don't know that our situation warrants this kind of an investment, especially with the way we go to nickel & dime so often. But it would be interesting.


Trade
Ok, this is the one I really wanted to discuss. Reading the above snippet from PFF it appears the Packers may be ILB heavy, especially if they keep Brad Jones. So I don't know how to initiate a trade, obviously Rick Smith doesn't either, but I would imagine it would start with trying to identify what that other team needs and what I'm willing to give up. But with Desmond Bishop & DJ Smith coming off injury, would you consider sending signals to the Greenbay Packers?


If not the Packers, do you see another franchise that might be open to the idea of trading a "decent" ILB?

Vinny
02-02-2013, 12:49 PM
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Vance87
02-02-2013, 12:51 PM
You say Ruud covered as well as Malauga? Ouch. That's a burn

bckey
02-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Here are 3 free agents I wouldn't mind seeing in a Texans uniform:

Rey Maualuga MLB-reuniting with Cushing could benefit him and the Texans

Richard Seymour DT-33 years old but can still play and he has playoff and superbowl experience.

Dwayne Bowe WR-good receiver that has had terrible qbs throwing to him.

As far as trading for an ILB maybe a team switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense would be interested. The Cowboys are rumored to be switching.

thunderkyss
02-02-2013, 01:22 PM
You say Ruud covered as well as Malauga? Ouch. That's a burn

He covered Vareen on three attempts, only that last one went for a TD. Looked like he made a mental error on that play & if they were to line up like that again, I bet more than likely it would have gone our way.

He was also lined up against Gronk on an island.... forced him out of bounds on the play Gronk got injured. That's pretty good stuff from a LB to understand & use the sideline like that.

He had been in several other passing situations throughout the season, only giving up 1 other catch that I can remember.

Again, not saying that he's the answer, I don't even know if he could play full time. Just saying he should be in the mix come time for training camp.

Vance87
02-02-2013, 01:49 PM
My point was Malauga is one of the worst ILB's at covering in the entire NFL

thunderkyss
02-02-2013, 02:16 PM
My point was Malauga is one of the worst ILB's at covering in the entire NFL

I get you. But for some reason there are some here that would like us to spend FA dollars on Maualuga.

76Texan
02-02-2013, 04:34 PM
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Well, we all had good suggestions here and there during draft time, but it's not easy to hit on all the picks.

I can understand them not going for a LB earlier that year since we had Cushing and Ryans.

Then there's the matter that plenty of picks that went before Mitchell and Sharpton are either no longer in the NFL or barely did anything.

Note: At the time, I also said that I think those guys were drafted a bit too early.
I saw Mitchell as a rotational guy that only has a small chance of becoming a starter, and Sharpton as a project. (I had them both a round later (or at most half around later.) Again, nobody is going to hit on them all.

It's more about the overall consistency, and I think they did at least an average job building the roster.

htowntexans1985
02-02-2013, 04:34 PM
From Mcnairs comments we are going to work on our weak spots through the draft. We Just dont have the cap room to take on any f.a. vets at the moment. Unless they take the bare minimum. I do hope we let go of Bradie James and get more speed at Ilb. The drop off from Cushing to the rest of the lb corps is just too damaging to the rest of our Defense. Their has to be a gem in the draft with that high motor and intensity

thunderkyss
02-02-2013, 05:16 PM
Note: At the time, I also said that I think those guys were drafted a bit too early.
I saw Mitchell as a rotational guy that only has a small chance of becoming a starter, and Sharpton as a project. (I had them both a round later (or at most half around later.) Again, nobody is going to hit on them all.

It's more about the overall consistency, and I think they did at least an average job building the roster.

It's really hard to judge Mitchell. I've seen flashes of what I'd like to see out of the position, but being that Cody is still starting I have to believe that what we are seeing from Cody is what they want. With that in mind I don't see a huge drop-off & wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try too hard to keep Cody when that time comes.

I think Sharpton is a stud. Just can't stay on the field. Maybe he'll be that guy next year, but we don't need to be sitting around waiting for it to happen. He didn't make it out of camp healthy in 2012...

If you (or anyone) thinks we can get what we're looking for in the 3rd or 4th round, great. I hope you're right, but I think we need someone to start day 1 & we're not going to find that (I think) in the 3rd or 4th. It happens, I know it does, Just not a gamble I think we can afford.

Insideop
02-02-2013, 07:56 PM
You can find stud inside linebackers from the second round to the 4th. Stud ILB Daryl Washington (Cards) was the 47th pick of the draft and was a second round pick. James Laurinaitis was a second rounder, Sean Lee was the 55th overall, The Panther's Dan Connor was a third rounder (74th), Bowman - 91st overall pick...We could have taken him instead of project Earl Mitchell. Instead we take the project and then select an inferior prospect in Sharpton right after Bowman. That's just nit-picking though.

Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out. Bostic from Florida, Alonso from Oregon, or Klein from Iowa State could be good finds in the mid rounds but that's about it. There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.

thunderkyss
02-02-2013, 08:45 PM
There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.

Yeah..... getting trucked on PrimeTime TV & having your love life unravel on Dr. Phil can do that to a player.

badboy
02-02-2013, 08:58 PM
Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out. Bostic from Florida, Alonso from Oregon, or Klein from Iowa State could be good finds in the mid rounds but that's about it. There are no real stars like Cushing or Willis this year unless you count Te'o, who's really fallen off since the National Championship game.A fake girlfriend that we now know Te'o had nothing to do with, I'm thinking if he is there select him. Starts day one as pefect MLB. 113 tackles 7 INTs and IIRc 2 sacks.

Wolf6151
02-03-2013, 04:52 AM
I also like what I saw in Barrett Ruud late in the season and playoffs and I'm not sure if he makes the team next season, but he should at least make training camp. I also liked Dobbins for a depth position and think he should be in TC as well.

In the draft I like Ogletree the best but he might be gone by our pick and I honestly don't like the idea of an ILB in the 1st round, seems like a wasted pick, because there's better value in the mid rounds. I think we can find a good depth guy in the 4th or 5th round. I like AJ Klein for his pass coverage ability, and Alonso wouldn't be bad either. Reddick and Nico Johnson are other options that I think are raw but athletic and could be possibilities. As for Te'o, hell NO. I don't want all the drama that will surround this guy and don't think he's all that great.

As for a trade or FA, I don't think we have the money to be chasing any FA's this year at least no one good. I don't see Smith using a trade for ILB.

SteveSlaton20
02-03-2013, 08:00 AM
our biggest issue imo

i have faith that cushing will come back strong next year, but i dont see anyone else that we have is worth starting next to cush.

i havent watched a lot of films, but from what i've seen, i like kevin minter over alec ogletree. not that interested in te'o, especially with his drama recently.

Lucky
02-03-2013, 10:21 AM
Problem is, the ILB class this year is considered to be weak. Ogletree is rated the best and should be gone when the Texans pick. Minter, and maybe Te'o, will probably be there at #27 and should get consideration. After that things start to thin out.
What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

WolverineFan
02-03-2013, 10:50 AM
What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

Hodges is actually the guy I want to target in the 3rd round at ILB. I'd like to avoid taking an eventual two-down player in the 1st round but if Minter from LSU is there it's hard to say no.

mussop
02-03-2013, 10:56 AM
What you're not taking into consideration is that NFL teams will look at college OLBs and project them to ILB. Two that Vinny mentioned (Bowman and Sean Lee) played OLB at Penn State. Connor played both positions at Penn State. In fact, there is a OLB from Penn State in this draft, Gerald Hodges, that might project inside in the Texans defense. So while the draft gurus may see this year's ILB crop as thin, NFL teams may be looking at players the gurus aren't considering.

And I would add chase Thomas to that list but at the very least its probably going to take a trade up in the second to get either.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 11:23 AM
Hodges is actually the guy I want to target in the 3rd round at ILB. I'd like to avoid taking an eventual two-down player in the 1st round but if Minter from LSU is there it's hard to say no.

I want to get better. I want to take the best player available at 27 who can help this team get better. I'd consider moving up in the draft to get the guy we need to take this team to the next level.

I don't want to be looking for someone who is good, but not as good as Cushing. If Cushing gets hurt again, or if he has a "year after pregnancy" season again, I don't want our best option to be Daryl Sharpton.

If we get a guy who is better than Cushing (which is very unlikely) that'll keep Quin playing safety & Demps on the bench. We'll stay in our base defense more often than we do now.

mussop
02-03-2013, 12:02 PM
I get you. But for some reason there are some here that would like us to spend FA dollars on Maualuga.

Well those people need to watch some of his games since he was drafted. He is horrible in coverage and I would say less talented than what we currently have at ILB in James or Dobbins.

Also I would say that DT and ILB are our biggest needs right now. Followed by OT and then WR. Anyone who thinks replacing Walter over Cody is more important isn't thinking things through. Walter might not be the best number two WR out there but as far as performance goes he is heads and shoulders better than Cody.

Cody should at the very best should be a backup that only sees the field to give the starter a blow. He was pushed around like he was on roller skates all year and that is saying something when you consider he played with the DPOY to his left and arguably a top 5 five tech in Smith to his right.


Cody
2010 38 tackles
2011 23 tackles
2012 17 tackles

He's on the wrong side of 30 and his numbers are trending down. So what should we expect next year, 10, 11 tackles? Are those starting DT numbers?

How can anyone think that Schaub's 3rd or really in most cases 4th option on passing downs is more important than our starting NT is beyond me.

And so I don't totally derail this good thread lets talk ILB. Cushing is coming off a season ending injury and plays with the kind of reckless abandonment that could land him right back there at any time. Other than him we literally have NO one that should be a starter at either inside position. No way in hell we wait until late in the draft for help there. We need a quality starter and depth there.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 12:16 PM
Anyone who thinks replacing Walter over Cody is more important isn't thinking things through.
Cody should at the very best should be a backup that only sees the field to give the starter a blow.

I think that's what he basically is. He might be out there on first downs & "listed" as a starter, but when you look at the number of snaps, he's not on the field anymore than our second ILB. Suan Cody will be the first player to come off the field.

He's very situational player, it's just that those situations usually start on first down..... technically he's a starter, but in reality Quinten Demps sees more snaps. Demps is more of a starter than Cody is.


He was pushed around like he was on roller skates

Sorry, I didn't see that. He was the one most likely to hold his ground as Smith & Watt penetrated upfield.

all year and that is saying something when you consider he played with the DPOY to his left and arguably a top 5 five tech in Smith to his right.

Smith is not a 5 tech. He doesn't play the 5 tech. He's an UT, a 3 tech.


Cody
2010 38 tackles
2011 23 tackles
2012 17 tackles

He's on the wrong side of 30 and his numbers are trending down. So what should we expect next year, 10, 11 tackles? Are those starting DT numbers?

As far as NT's go, those numbers are probably right where they need to be. The NT usually disappears whether in a 3-4 or a 4-3. The 3 tech usually gets all the glory.

I don't know that you can grade a NT on his sacks or tackles. How many TFLs does your team have? I think that is directly associated with the NTs ability to define the A gaps. You're only going to see that watching film & seeing how he makes it possible for everyone else to do their job. This year, I think it was a down year, because Cushing got hurt & his replacements didn't attack that gap like they should. Cushing & Demeco would have feasted this year with those three up front.


How can anyone think that Schaub's 3rd or really in most cases 4th option on passing downs is more important than our starting NT is beyond me.

I think everyone wants to upgrade Schaub's 2nd option. With a better #2 WR we think we can get that done.

If we can get a Gronk with #27, I'm all for it. Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis...... Hell Yeah!!!


And so I don't totally derail this good thread lets talk ILB. Cushing is coming off a season ending injury and plays with the kind of reckless abandonment that could land him right back there at any time. Other than him we literally have NO one that should be a starter at either inside position. No way in hell we wait until late in the draft for help there. We need a quality starter and depth there.

Exactly, I think Cushing instantly upgrades the position. With that in mind, I can understand if there are those who believe our need is a 4th-UDFA type of need.

welsh texan
02-03-2013, 01:52 PM
I'd like Te'o as a pick, especially if we can trade down a few spots into the 2nd round and maybe move into the top 10 in the 3rd and pick up an extra late pick and still nab him.

I think the Texans have enough character to put around him that he'd be able to overcome all the **** he's been through recently and playing next door to Cush will take some of the pressure off him and allow him to play natural.

I also think concern about whether #2 ILB is a worthwhile top pick is unwarranted, the assumption that its a 2 down position in Wade's system is off imo, DeMeco Ryans was hobbled 2 years ago and needed the rest, this year the overall talent was lacking, if Wade's #2 ILB is a more capable player than his #3 S for whatever reason then I believe the scheme changes to fit the personnel.

A few little observations on our ILB situation - ILB is key in both the system and the personnel we have, Cushing frees up a lot of things for the OLB's vs. the pass, taking other responsibilities such as run contain etc off of them because he can get to the ball carrier in that situation, Barwin & Reed were beginning to look like studs with Cush there and couldn't get to the passer without him. It also covers nicely for Wade's preference for smaller penetrating DT's against runs up the middle.

We can't rely on Cush to get back to 100%, that plan brings up memories of Domanik Davis to me, and that situation left this franchise in a pickle at RB for a good 5 years, Dayne train, Green, Chris effing Brown, Slaton's one year wonder aside it took a gem UDFA to fix. By the same token we can't afford to move on from Cush either, we need to give him time to get back to as good as he's going to be before we make that kind of decision.

Maybe the coaches see Reed as an adequate option at the position, I can't help but wonder if it might be some misdirection going into the draft, depending what they do about Barwin in FA, they would need at least one, possibly 2 good OLB's in the draft. Maybe they set it up to stop teams trading ahead of us to take the likes of Te'o and then take him out of surprise, and suddenly Reed is back at OLB and they can pick up their #3 OLB in the mid-rounds.

As for all the other ILB's on the roster, Sharpton, James, Ruud, Dobbins, I'm perfectly happy to see them all back for training camp as they are all decent depth for the position, just can't be starting 2 of that group at the position, and would rather not see any of them start, although Sharpton certainly could, imo, get the job done but can't be relied upon to stay healthy.

And for all that, I still can't help but feel frustrated that all these years into this Smithiak project, when we've thrown all resources at the D, we're still considering giving drafts over to the D altogether, this team should really be in position to draft 3 first rounders in a row on O by now, but clearly we aren't.

IDEXAN
02-03-2013, 02:07 PM
Taking care of our ILB needs is a relatively minor problem because it's a position
where all but 3 or 4 of the top ILB prospects in this Draft can be had with less than a third round Draft pic.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 02:25 PM
And for all that, I still can't help but feel frustrated that all these years into this Smithiak project, when we've thrown all resources at the D, we're still considering giving drafts over to the D altogether, this team should really be in position to draft 3 first rounders in a row on O by now, but clearly we aren't.

Great post all around. I wanted this part repeated, because I feel it is very important in regards to the future of our team. It's not just first rounders we've been drafting, it's 4ths & 5ths & 6ths & 7ths we should not only be a talented defense, but we ought to be deep.

Not all that is on Wade, I know a lot of those picks came before him. But the point is still the same. We need to start getting some production from more than Quin & McCain from our low round draft picks or our FA acquisitions that cost less than $8M/yr.

mussop
02-03-2013, 02:53 PM
I think that's what he basically is. He might be out there on first downs & "listed" as a starter, but when you look at the number of snaps, he's not on the field anymore than our second ILB. Suan Cody will be the first player to come off the field.

Where are you getting these numbers?

He's very situational player, it's just that those situations usually start on first down..... technically he's a starter, but in reality Quinten Demps sees more snaps. Demps is more of a starter than Cody is.

Again I would like to see these numbers.

Sorry, I didn't see that. He was the one most likely to hold his ground as Smith & Watt penetrated upfield.

I don't know what games you were watching.

Smith is not a 5 tech. He doesn't play the 5 tech. He's an UT, a 3 tech.

I hate this conversation. You know what I mean. And yes he arguably was a top 5 3/4 DE.

As far as NT's go, those numbers are probably right where they need to be. The NT usually disappears whether in a 3-4 or a 4-3. The 3 tech usually gets all the glory.

Here is another topic that gets tricky. Why is Cody's position considered a NT? He is 307 lbs. In Wades system the middle position on the line is more of a DT than a NT. Cody just isn't capable of performing like one so everyone wants to call him a NT. Even as a NT he is not up to par. He doesn't push the pocket back nor command double teams.

I don't know that you can grade a NT on his sacks or tackles. How many TFLs does your team have? I think that is directly associated with the NTs ability to define the A gaps. You're only going to see that watching film & seeing how he makes it possible for everyone else to do their job. This year, I think it was a down year, because Cushing got hurt & his replacements didn't attack that gap like they should. Cushing & Demeco would have feasted this year with those three up front.


I think everyone wants to upgrade Schaub's 2nd option. With a better #2 WR we think we can get that done.

I don't care who you put at #2 they aren't going to get a ton of targets with AJ, OD and Foster on the field. Especially a rookie. There is only so many balls to be thrown.

If we can get a Gronk with #27, I'm all for it. Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis...... Hell Yeah!!!

Now if you are talking adding a top tier TE then you have an argument.

Exactly, I think Cushing instantly upgrades the position. With that in mind, I can understand if there are those who believe our need is a 4th-UDFA type of need.

I don't. We need depth and a quality starter next to Cushing.

amazing80
02-03-2013, 08:21 PM
If reed moves inside, OLB becomes the bigger need, even if we keep Barwin....

NT is a big need, but Wade may prefer Mitchel compared to a rookie

i really think WR is the number 1 needed and we address it in round 1

there IMO are quite a few of solid ilbs. This draft is short on big time line backers, but there is a lot of depth, hence we can get a good one in rounds 2-4. With Cushing being the 3 down player, we can just draft a big hitting thumper which isn't a round 1 position player anyway

b0ng
02-04-2013, 08:22 AM
I seriously doubt the Texans are going to spend serious bucks or draft picks on an ILB this off-season. Cushing is a stud and they have proven that they would rather not have a lot of money tied up in that spot, which precludes FA spending on the position. As far as the draft goes, there are some interesting prospects, but I imagine any top of the draft defensive pick will probably go towards a pass rusher or NT.

silentassassin
02-04-2013, 10:19 AM
i really think WR is the number 1 needed and we address it in round 1



It's a possibility, but I seriously doubt this. As much as a lot of us have wanted another huge factor at receiver for a while now, we know how this organization operates.

Obviously that position is one they'll look at in the draft, but the highest they've gone on a receiver is in the third round, and I'm not sure that will change.

deucetx
02-04-2013, 11:28 AM
I think that's what he basically is. He might be out there on first downs & "listed" as a starter, but when you look at the number of snaps, he's not on the field anymore than our second ILB. Suan Cody will be the first player to come off the field.

Where are you getting these numbers?

He is correct. In the nickle Wade generally goes two D-linemen which will be Smith/Watt with the LB's on the edges. Cody or Mitchell are generally off the field. Mitchell can sometimes plug Smith because he is more athletic/faster than Cody. But compared to most 3-4 teams we use the NT a bit less.

1086 total defensive snaps (reg. season). Cody played 260. He was injured part of the time (3 games I believe) but take Mitchell into account to who had only 406. So Cody basically averaged about 20 plays a game, Mitchell 25. If wondering we averaged 67.87 defensive snaps a game. Same for our sub/dime packages. NT is generally not out there. Granted if we had a beast of a NT in the Ngata mold maybe Wade would change his philosophy on his nickle or sub/dime packages. But from what we know currently, no, the NT isn't out there as much as we like to believe.

I don't care who you put at #2 they aren't going to get a ton of targets with AJ, OD and Foster on the field. Especially a rookie. There is only so many balls to be thrown.

Disagree but not going in the numbers depth on it. Got it on another thread. To think a more talented #2 wouldn't get targets when it has proven to be as such in the past in this system is just a stretch. This offense needs to evolve. Status quo won't get it done unless we are just playing for AFC South titles and not championships. Your priority chart in regards to receiving options is based on their talent/abilities. Not the system. I mean picture the convo:

'Hey guys. We got this other receiver who is faster than O.D., Arian and such but I...I just don't know. I mean come on. I know it's 3rd and 10 but I love hitting O.D. on those 7 yard patterns. Or maybe we can check down to Arian and he can run for all 10 yards like Rice did against the Chargers.'

'Coach...but that receiver is bigger than the DB, fast enough to get yards after the catch and can make plays.'

'NO! We must only throw it to our TE's and RB's first! It...it's too risky to throw to a talented receiver not named Dre. Man, I wish we had Walter right about now.'

'...Why coach? He would only get us about 5 yards.'

'Yeah but he'd look real pretty when he did it.'

***Texans punt the ball after gaining 7 yards instead of 10***

Sorry I am being silly but just think the idea we’ll not hit a more talented/capable #2 receiver because of system is just a stretch in my opinon. Plus saying Walter is Schaub's third option, well, there is a reason. He doesn't have any playmaking abilities. Would you throw it consistently to someone who doesn't generally get a lot of separation nor makes any plays after the catch? Dre, O.D. and Foster all can do something after a coach more than Walter can (if he gets open as it is) hence why they may get looked at first. Flip the script and put someone there talented Kubiak would be an idiot to not find ways to get him the ball more.

That means O.D. not carrying so much since he looked worn at the end of the year. Those injuries he had don't make his body stronger after all and he's not getting younger. And Foster getting a chance to breath. Fresher bodies help in the playoffs.

In any case, the three positions that probably need addressing most are WR, NT and ILB. Doesn't really matter what order as long as these are your first three picks unless you can grab something via free agency. I really rather a free agent WR because rookies take time to develop at that position unless very talented. NT and ILB can plug in much more quickly. Whether we have the cap room in the end though remains to be seen and knowing us we’ll wait on choosing a WR opting for a developmental type guy again. I mean we grabbed Jacoby from the amazing Lane College and then took a guy who didn’t play all year previously. We sure do seem to reach on those spots.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 11:40 AM
Disagree but not going in the numbers depth on it. Got it on another thread. To think a more talented #2 wouldn't get targets when it has proven to be as such in the past in this system is just a stretch. This offense needs to evolve. Status quo won't get it done unless we are just playing for AFC South titles and not championships. Your priority chart in regards to receiving options is based on their talent/abilities. Not the system. I mean picture the convo:


Even if he didn't get more targets, we need him to do more with those targets.

Torrey Smith had 49 catches. Walter had 41 catches.

Torrey Smith had 855 yards. Walter had 518 yards.

(Torey had 110 targets. Walter had 68.)

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 12:17 PM
IMO, move Brooks Reed to the inside. Draft or FA a new NT (or maybe make Earl Mitchell the starter, he is much better than Cody). Our defense will be stacked.

Cody isn't starter material. Way too many games where we didn't even hear his name (and playing alongside Watt and Smith, how is that possible?).

If we get a stud NT, the defense will need to Double him often. That will free up JJ for single coverage, and we all know what that means...sack lunch.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2013, 01:23 PM
IMO, move Brooks Reed to the inside. Draft or FA a new NT (or maybe make Earl Mitchell the starter, he is much better than Cody). Our defense will be stacked.

Cody isn't starter material. Way too many games where we didn't even hear his name (and playing alongside Watt and Smith, how is that possible?).

If we get a stud NT, the defense will need to Double him often. That will free up JJ for single coverage, and we all know what that means...sack lunch.

And what happens on the outside? Our LB corps, which most of us thought was stacked at one time, is not very promising at this point. We've got Cush, who is coming off of reconstructive knee surgery and who else? I suppose Reed's ok, but what else? Barwin couldn't do diddly in a contract year even facing one on one's most of the time. Mercilus is average at rushing the QB, but can't play the run to save his life right now.

IMO, our LB corps is the weakest point of our defense and should be a high priority this offseason

76Texan
02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Who is Cameron Collins?

According to Spotrac, the Texans signed him to a 3-yr/$1,290,000 contract as a LB (with a $390,000 salary in 2012.)

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cameron-collins/

According to HoustonTexans.com, he was:

Signed by Houston Texans to practice squad on Oct. 11, 2012...released by Texans from practice squad on Oct. 29, 2012...signed by Texans to practice squad on Nov. 27, 2012...signed by Texans to active roster on Jan. 4, 2013.

The two sources don't seem to match.
He wasn't promoted to the 53-man roster until Jan 4, 2013.
He wasn't active for either play-off game; can he still earn that $390K ???

From what I read, Collins was converted to LB from safety by Oregon St. in his Jr. year (after starting 11 games at safety.) He started 14 games at LB during the last 2 years in college. He earned Pac-10/12 All-Academic First Team four straight years.

Collins went undrafted and was signed by the Dolphins as an UDFA. He was cut when they trimmed the roster down to 53.

badboy
02-05-2013, 12:01 PM
Who is Cameron Collins?

According to Spotrac, the Texans signed him to a 3-yr/$1,290,000 contract as a LB (with a $390,000 salary in 2012.)

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cameron-collins/

According to HoustonTexans.com, he was:

Signed by Houston Texans to practice squad on Oct. 11, 2012...released by Texans from practice squad on Oct. 29, 2012...signed by Texans to practice squad on Nov. 27, 2012...signed by Texans to active roster on Jan. 4, 2013.

The two sources don't seem to match.
He wasn't promoted to the 53-man roster until Jan 4, 2013.
He wasn't active for either play-off game; can he still earn that $390K ???

From what I read, Collins was converted to LB from safety by Oregon St. in his Jr. year (after starting 11 games at safety.) He started 14 games at LB during the last 2 years in college. He earned Pac-10/12 All-Academic First Team four straight years.

Collins went undrafted and was signed by the Dolphins as an UDFA. He was cut when they trimmed the roster down to 53.
Biography: Two-year starter used at both linebacker and safety. Senior totals included 55 tackles and 4 tackles for loss after he had 39 tackles and four tackles for loss as a junior. Posted a career-best 70 tackles as a sophomore. Never recorded an interception in college. All-academic performer four straight years.

Positives: Athletic defender with an undeveloped game. Breaks down well, effectively uses his hands to protect himself and does a solid job diagnosing the action. Gets depth on pass drops, moves around the field well and fluid out to the sidelines.

Negatives: Inefficient, takes too many steps getting to plays and overpursues the action. Possesses more of a short-area burst that he cannot sustain. Marginal skills in coverage.

Analysis: Collins looks the part and showed flashes of dominance as a sophomore yet never took his game to the next level. He's a size/speed prospect who must start to transfer his athletic skills onto the football field on a full-time basis.

Projection: FA


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/draft-2012/players/68625.html#ixzz2K35cZnd7