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Wolf6151
01-31-2013, 06:27 AM
Jonathan Banks-CB from Mississippi St. has moved down the rankings to being a late 1st round pick. Would he be BPA at pick #27, or is there enough need at CB to justify taking a CB in the 1st round? He looks to me like he's going to be a very good CB in the NFL, and I know there are other needs, but that's not something you pass up lightly. Good CB's are hard to find.

beerlover
01-31-2013, 10:03 AM
Jonathan Banks-CB from Mississippi St. has moved down the rankings to being a late 1st round pick. Would he be BPA at pick #27, or is there enough need at CB to justify taking a CB in the 1st round? He looks to me like he's going to be a very good CB in the NFL, and I know there are other needs, but that's not something you pass up lightly. Good CB's are hard to find.

He is pretty polished. Ballhawk, mature with leadership skills. Not a quick twitch, blazer but similar to KJ with more length & better hands. If Texan spent #20 on him then you gotta feel why not a better prospect #27? :toropalm:

That said, there is a good crop of CB prospects Texans could pick throughout draft day(s) :specnatz:

NitroGSXR
01-31-2013, 03:21 PM
Not the first round or even in the draft at all but at least UFDA but I'd think the Texans are going to take a long hard look at Tony Tatum given Wade's success with deaf players. He is the ONLY coach in the NFL to ever coach a deaf player and he's done it twice. First with Kenny Walker and now Barwin.

http://nfldraftzone.com/draft-news/draft-zone-spotlight-tony-tatum-cb-gallaudet-university/

mussop
01-31-2013, 09:49 PM
I really really like Trufant.I would not hate it if we picked him in the first. Wouldn't be my first or even second choice but again I wouldn't hate it.

Corrosion
02-01-2013, 02:11 AM
Just depends on who else is on the board when they pick. I wouldnt rule out a CB in the first by any means.

Wolf6151
02-01-2013, 02:33 AM
I really really like Trufant.I would not hate it if we picked him in the first. Wouldn't be my first or even second choice but again I wouldn't hate it.

These are my sentiments as well. Trufant and Banks are the best 2 CB's that could possibly be available when we pick and although I think there are bigger needs I sure wouldn't turn down a top ranked CB that falls into our lap. We might not need it now but there's always room for a quality CB on the roster, drafting for the future needs now.

otisbean
02-01-2013, 07:13 AM
Wouldn't mind Poyer in the second or third as a replacement for McCain as our nickel CB

beerlover
02-01-2013, 11:03 AM
Wouldn't mind Poyer in the second or third as a replacement for McCain as our nickel CB

really like Poyer too. reminds me of Antoine Cason, he could sneak into first. I've said it before but a one-two of Beavers Poyer & Wheaton would add speed to both sides.

Dutchrudder
02-01-2013, 11:11 AM
CB in the 3rd-6th round?

Fify

Doppelganger
02-01-2013, 05:24 PM
Jonathan Banks-CB from Mississippi St. has moved down the rankings to being a late 1st round pick. Would he be BPA at pick #27, or is there enough need at CB to justify taking a CB in the 1st round? He looks to me like he's going to be a very good CB in the NFL, and I know there are other needs, but that's not something you pass up lightly. Good CB's are hard to find.

If I was targeting a 1st round CB, i'd go after Marcus Trufant's little brother Desmond. He is 5'11, 190lbs, and has 4.42 speed. He is physical and can play in a man scheme that Wade likes. He has the speed, athletic ability, and desire to be a potential lockdown corner. I have been flirting with the idea of grabbing him in the first round.

otisbean
02-01-2013, 05:54 PM
really like Poyer too. reminds me of Antoine Cason, he could sneak into first. I've said it before but a one-two of Beavers Poyer & Wheaton would add speed to both sides.

I'd be happy with either or both of those guys

Wolf6151
02-02-2013, 01:55 AM
If I was targeting a 1st round CB, i'd go after Marcus Trufant's little brother Desmond. He is 5'11, 190lbs, and has 4.42 speed. He is physical and can play in a man scheme that Wade likes. He has the speed, athletic ability, and desire to be a potential lockdown corner. I have been flirting with the idea of grabbing him in the first round.

I agree, but the question boils down to there being bigger needs at ILB, WR, NT, and O-line, so if your the GM do you fill a bigger need first or jump on a BPA opportunity if one of the top ranked CB's falls into your lap. Taking Banks or Trufant means settling for lesser talent at your other needed positions, but it also means turning one of your teams weaknesses 2 yrs. ago into a team strength with depth, an enviable position for most clubs in the league.

I know it would mean settling for lesser talent at the needed positions but I think I'd have to jump on Banks or Trufant if available in the 1st, as long as we use our other picks to trade up and at least fill WR and NT with high quality talent. They could also be future trade bait since most teams covet quality CB's.

beerlover
02-02-2013, 02:57 AM
If I was targeting a 1st round CB, i'd go after Marcus Trufant's little brother Desmond. He is 5'11, 190lbs, and has 4.42 speed. He is physical and can play in a man scheme that Wade likes. He has the speed, athletic ability, and desire to be a potential lockdown corner. I have been flirting with the idea of grabbing him in the first round.

From studying film of Desmond, he doesn't look all the fast or quick. His hips are a little stiff also. I've seen him take bad angles just as much as good ones. He commits stupid penalties when he's beaten, which is going to happen next level so question that as well.

Poyer is much more quick twitch, fast & fluid. not as thick, doesn't look 5'11" 190 as listed but so what he's a playmaker & keeps inside position to make plays on the football, will actually run the receivers route. If I were addressing the best corner available it would be him @ #27. IMO :)

WolverineFan
02-03-2013, 11:24 AM
Have to think we take a CB if he's the BPA. DB is deep this year so you'd like to grab it later and hit a thinner position first, but you need to take the best players.

Wolf6151
02-04-2013, 02:45 AM
From studying film of Desmond, he doesn't look all the fast or quick. His hips are a little stiff also. I've seen him take bad angles just as much as good ones. He commits stupid penalties when he's beaten, which is going to happen next level so question that as well.

Poyer is much more quick twitch, fast & fluid. not as thick, doesn't look 5'11" 190 as listed but so what he's a playmaker & keeps inside position to make plays on the football, will actually run the receivers route. If I were addressing the best corner available it would be him @ #27. IMO :)


Poyer is another good name to add to the mix. Banks, Trufant, and Poyer if one of them is available at #27 do we take a CB in the 1st or fill a bigger need at WR or NT?

beerlover
02-04-2013, 11:18 AM
Poyer is another good name to add to the mix. Banks, Trufant, and Poyer if one of them is available at #27 do we take a CB in the 1st or fill a bigger need at WR or NT?

Watching two 3-4 teams in the Superbowl I couldn't help but notice thickness across the middle of both teams lines. Some big, physical men, very intimidating. Really like another physical DE like Datone Jones or Ansah Ezekial who are positional diverse. If they are both off the board I'd probably still go DL. Next would be Sharrif Floyd & Kawaan Short. Both could play nose or DE in Wade Phillips scheme.

If all those players are gone maybe look ILB like Minter.

Texans can address WR in 2nd and/or 3rd. I don't like their bust rate to take one in the first. CB is not that big of need plus it's got some good depth this year :)

IDEXAN
02-04-2013, 11:25 AM
Even if a CB is not a high-priority "need-wise", if you get a CB on your Board who you've got rated as a player that should have been picked much earlier, I think a team has got to give serious consideration to taking the corner since it's such a high-value position.

Wolf6151
02-04-2013, 02:22 PM
Even if a CB is not a high-priority "need-wise", if you get a CB on your Board who you've got rated as a player that should have been picked much earlier, I think a team has got to give serious consideration to taking the corner since it's such a high-value position.

My sentiments exactly. While I agree with BL about adding some size to our D-line, I really want Kawann Short-DT in the 1st round and hope that we get bigger at the other DE spot when Antonio is done, a good CB is so hard to find that I think you almost have to jump on a good one if they fall to you, even above taking another position of greater need. Good CB's are becoming more and more rare. Also as the NFL becomes more pass oriented every year I think you have to put an emphasis on the secondary. If a good CB doesn't work out then they can often times be switched to Safety as well.

Doppelganger
02-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Watching two 3-4 teams in the Superbowl I couldn't help but notice thickness across the middle of both teams lines. Some big, physical men, very intimidating. Really like another physical DE like Datone Jones or Ansah Ezekial who are positional diverse. If they are both off the board I'd probably still go DL. Next would be Sharrif Floyd & Kawaan Short. Both could play nose or DE in Wade Phillips scheme.

If all those players are gone maybe look ILB like Minter.

Texans can address WR in 2nd and/or 3rd. I don't like their bust rate to take one in the first. CB is not that big of need plus it's got some good depth this year :)

That's on the OL and DL. Did you see the chippiness in the first quarter? Those guys were practically ready to fight on the floor of the superdome. Not sure if Floyd is the right fit, but i like Short. Minter seems like a great ILB, but I worry about ILB2 in the Wade scheme. When he goes to nickel, ILB 2 comes off the field for another cb. If Cush wasn't there, Minter would be perfect. However, do we want to invest a high pick in a player who may not see the field against spread offenses?

steelbtexan
02-04-2013, 03:01 PM
If there are comparable players at WR/OT to NT/ILB who do you take in the 1st/2nd rd?

I go offense, The offense was putrid at the end of the yr and needs to be fixed.

beerlover
02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
If there are comparable players at WR/OT to NT/ILB who do you take in the 1st/2nd rd?

I go offense, The offense was putrid at the end of the yr and needs to be fixed.

The offense has (had) weapons but for one reason or another Kubiak seems to hold them back, until he leaves I would just a soon solidify defensive side especially with another strong draft. Opportunity to make a statement with defense & defense wins championships.

steelbtexan
02-04-2013, 03:32 PM
The offense has (had) weapons but for one reason or another Kubiak seems to hold them back, until he leaves I would just a soon solidify defensive side especially with another strong draft. Opportunity to make a statement with defense & defense wins championships.

Not disagreeing with you,

But what was the avg score of the AFC/NFC confrence championship games? The SB was 34-31. The Texans offense cant compete at that level and until they can reach that level there will be no Lombardi's in the Texans future.

The question is can Gary/Matt lead the offense to that level? The answer after 7 yrs appears to be no.

Wolf6151
02-04-2013, 03:54 PM
The offense has (had) weapons but for one reason or another Kubiak seems to hold them back, until he leaves I would just a soon solidify defensive side especially with another strong draft. Opportunity to make a statement with defense & defense wins championships.

Another very good point, your full of them lately. Kubiak was reported to be this innovative offensive genius/QB building guru, but last seasons offense looked anything but innovative and Kubiak is either drafting the wrong talent or like you stated, holding them back in their development. Also Kubiaks devotion to his offensive assistant coaches that seem to be underperforming reinforces the notion of Kubiak being stubborn or far to loyal. Even though we've made the playoffs the last 2 yrs. I still have very little confidence in Kubiak as a talent evaluator, his ability to lead this team, improve Schaub, or change/become innovative on the offense. Another good reason to take a CB in the 1st if one falls to us or the best defender at a position of need.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 04:01 PM
Not disagreeing with you,

But what was the avg score of the AFC/NFC confrence championship games? The SB was 34-31. The Texans offense cant compete at that level and until they can reach that level there will be no Lombardi's in the Texans future.

The question is can Gary/Matt lead the offense to that level? The answer after 7 yrs appears to be no.Gary the offensive guru that can't run a hurry up offense.

Doppelganger
02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Gary the offensive guru that can't run a hurry up offense.

Kubes won superbowls as an OC when he had John Elway, a really good OL, a very underrated RB like Terrel Davis, and very good defense. Kubes was the Denver OC for years and had Elway for a long time before they won it all. Kubes needs a lot of pieces to come together to be a winner. Plus, think about this, Elway was known for comebacks...meaning Kubes was calling a game that led to the Broncos being too conservative or just behind.

Sadly if Kubes couldn't get it done consistently with the man many consider in the top 5 for greatest QB of all time, how will he get it done with a guy who is maybe in the top 20 for current QBs?

76Texan
02-04-2013, 04:40 PM
Kubes won superbowls as an OC when he had John Elway, a really good OL, a very underrated RB like Terrel Davis, and very good defense. Kubes was the Denver OC for years and had Elway for a long time before they won it all. Kubes needs a lot of pieces to come together to be a winner. Plus, think about this, Elway was known for comebacks...meaning Kubes was calling a game that led to the Broncos being too conservative or just behind.

Sadly if Kubes couldn't get it done consistently with the man many consider in the top 5 for greatest QB of all time, how will he get it done with a guy who is maybe in the top 20 for current QBs?

Dop, check the record again with Profootball Reference for example.
Shanahan took over as HC and Kubiak became OC in 1995.

They immediately improved that offense.
The Broncos O outperformed the D by a decent to good margin in all those years with Kubiak as OC despite giving more resources (draft and FA) to their D.

Wolf6151
02-04-2013, 09:16 PM
What came first the chicken or the egg? Did Kubiak's offense make John Elway a HOF QB, or did the HOF QB make Kubiak look better than he really was? I lean towards the latter being more correct. Either way that was years ago and this is a very "what have you done lately" league and last years offense sure didn't look like that of an offensive guru. I've heard it said many times in many different places that Kubiak is to stubborn and it makes me wonder if he's wants to run his offense his way in spite of it's effectiveness or lack there of, or if Kubiak has made adjustments with the changing NFL. Is he keeping up with the times, is he innovative?

76Texan
02-04-2013, 11:40 PM
What came first the chicken or the egg? Did Kubiak's offense make John Elway a HOF QB, or did the HOF QB make Kubiak look better than he really was? I lean towards the latter being more correct. Either way that was years ago and this is a very "what have you done lately" league and last years offense sure didn't look like that of an offensive guru. I've heard it said many times in many different places that Kubiak is to stubborn and it makes me wonder if he's wants to run his offense his way in spite of it's effectiveness or lack there of, or if Kubiak has made adjustments with the changing NFL. Is he keeping up with the times, is he innovative?

There are a lot of things you can look at.
The most important thing is what Elway said himself. How the WCO revived his career.

At the time, Elway was already 35, yet he went on to have the most consistent 4 years of his career.

All his important numbers improved across the board.
You name it; from TD/INT ratio, completion percentage, Air Yard per attempt, yard per attempt, number of times sacked, adjusted net yard per attempt, QB rating.

He also had a strong running game to support him.
In those four years, the Broncos ranked highly in ypc; 3 times in second place and 4th place the other year.

There was no doubt which is which.

panamamyers
02-04-2013, 11:45 PM
I think the Wreh-Wilson kid from UCONN might be the best corner in the draft.
Could get him in the 3rd.

76Texan
02-04-2013, 11:50 PM
During their 2 SB runs, the Broncos had some 70 more running plays than passing plays, an average of 10 per game.

76Texan
02-04-2013, 11:52 PM
I think the Wreh-Wilson kid from UCONN might be the best corner in the draft.
Could get him in the 3rd.

Best corner in the draft in the third round?
That just doesn't sound right. :spin:

mussop
02-05-2013, 06:29 PM
That's on the OL and DL. Did you see the chippiness in the first quarter? Those guys were practically ready to fight on the floor of the superdome. Not sure if Floyd is the right fit, but i like Short. Minter seems like a great ILB, but I worry about ILB2 in the Wade scheme. When he goes to nickel, ILB 2 comes off the field for another cb. If Cush wasn't there, Minter would be perfect. However, do we want to invest a high pick in a player who may not see the field against spread offenses?

This is why I dont want a big run stuffer thumper type next to Cushing. We need a LB with high football IQ and very good instincts. Someone who is at his really good in coverage and who plays sideline to sideline but is big enough and physical enough to hold up against the run.

You put someone like that next to Cushing and we wont be seeing our safeties getting beat for those long TD's. We also won't have to endure seeing Demps or Keo on the field anymore.

If we need a thumper in certain situations we have Dobbins.