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srrono
01-29-2013, 05:07 PM
http://www.stateofthetexans.com/?p=10129

PDS ‏@PatDStat
So LZ is using a source saying that Reed will bump inside if they resign Barwin. #Texans

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
We just had @nfldraftscout on from radio row and he told us his sources indicated that Texans considering moving Brooks Reed inside

Barwin OLB Resign
Brooks ILB
Cushing ILB
Mercilus OLB

If this is the case. Wade is putting all our our rushers on field at same time so Offenses don't know where blitzer is coming from. Plus I am thinking this means HOU finally targets a new NT. Coaches can't be thinking the pass rush will suddenly be better with same personal.
Barwin OLB Resign
Brooks ILB
Cushing ILB
Mercilus OLB
Watt
Smith
Rookie? or FA? at NT

Playoffs
01-29-2013, 05:17 PM
Interesting.

You know LZ father is back coaching in the NFL again.

Former Steelers, Browns coach Larry Zierlein to join Bruce Arians staff as asst. offensive line coach (http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2013/1/28/3927446/former-steelers-browns-coach-larry-zierlein-to-join-bruce-arians)

Double Barrel
01-29-2013, 05:27 PM
Hmmmm...not sure about Brooks at ILB, but honestly not thrilled at all about potentially re-signing Barwin. That dude never really showed up this year.

Does Brooks have coverage ability required at ILB in this system?

deucetx
01-29-2013, 05:30 PM
Heh, ironically, it is what I did in Madden for my second season with the Texans.

Some saw this coming and I can see why the Texans might do it if they resign Barwin. Reed is good against the run and decent in coverage. His pass rush...well, that left something to be desired. If he could get the reads down he could be a benefit inside and give the defense some flexibility in blitz packages too. One of the issues I felt we had was over reliant on sub/dime packages where we had one backer and used a safety as a pseudo LB. But if we have two ILB's actually capable of being halfway good in coverage like Cush and Reed we could use nickle more.

Course remains to be seen how it all plays out. Barwin should come at a reasonable price but it would mean Mercilus needs to pick it up and be that edge rusher we need since Barwin's rushing abilities are still unknown. Good one moment and then you're wondering if he is still on roster.

infantrycak
01-29-2013, 05:34 PM
So why are some unnamed draft scout's unnamed multiple sources better than the beloved LZ?

Lurvinator11
01-29-2013, 05:35 PM
Assuming this does happen, it takes away the need to draft an ILB first round, so we could potentially focus on WR, OT, or another position where depth is needed.

Jules Winnfield
01-29-2013, 05:39 PM
i like it. i like the effort.

i never understood the whole brooks cant play ILB because he was a converted olb from de from college crowd.

This is something bill belicheck would do. I really like the effort. Kubiak finally has the balls to think outside the box and show some risk.

Kubiak's conservative mentality has been slowly contaminating the fanbase where you see them so reluctant to move away from kevin walter, move away from matt schaub etc...

Finally some gumption to try something different, take some risk, by kubiak.

It might not work, but I really like the effort. Im all for it and see if it works.

You will never know unless you try.

This is so bill belichikian. I like it. I really do.

Doppelganger
01-29-2013, 05:40 PM
PDS ‏@PatDStat
So LZ is using a source saying that Reed will bump inside if they resign Barwin. #Texans

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
We just had @nfldraftscout on from radio row and he told us his sources indicated that Texans considering moving Brooks Reed inside

Barwin OLB Resign
Brooks ILB
Cushing ILB
Mercilus OLB

If this is the case. Wade is putting all our our rushers on field at same time so Offenses don't know where blitzer is coming from. Plus I am thinking this means HOU finally targets a new NT. Coaches can't be thinking the pass rush will suddenly be better with same personal.
Barwin OLB Resign
Brooks ILB
Cushing ILB
Mercilus OLB
Watt
Smith
Rookie? or FA? at NT


Several of us in the mock forum have been saying this for months. Shift Reed to ILB next to Cush, resign Barwin and start him as SOLB and make Mercilus the WOLB.

Hmm...Texans front office seems to be reading the Texans Talk Draft Gurus!!!

amazing80
01-29-2013, 05:43 PM
i like it. i like the effort.

i never understood the whole brooks cant play ILB because he was a converted olb from de from college crowd.

This is something bill belicheck would do. I really like the effort. Kubiak finally has the balls to think outside the box and show some risk.

Kubiak's conservative mentality has been slowly contaminating the fanbase where you see them so reluctant to move away from kevin walter, move away from matt schaub etc...

Finally some gumption to try something different, take some risk, by kubiak.

It might not work, but I really like the effort. Im all for it and see if it works.

You will never know unless you try.

This is so bill belichikian. I like it. I really do.

First, LOL if you think Gary had ANYTHING to do with this

2nd, this is a great move but IMO you can add olb to our list of needs even if we resign barwin.....still need a legit 3rd rusher to rotate in there

Not to mention NT is still a big need

srrono
01-29-2013, 05:44 PM
Several of us in the mock forum have been saying this for months. Shift Reed to ILB next to Cush, resign Barwin and start him as SOLB and make Mercilus the WOLB.

Hmm...Texans front office seems to be reading the Texans Talk Draft Gurus!!!

Ok here is the plan every one make sign Wallace threads only for now on till FO gets the point lol

Jules Winnfield
01-29-2013, 05:51 PM
First, LOL if you think Gary had ANYTHING to do with this

2nd, this is a great move but IMO you can add olb to our list of needs even if we resign barwin.....still need a legit 3rd rusher to rotate in there

Not to mention NT is still a big need


yeaaa because he's a head coach so it wouldnt be up to him right?


smdh....

badboy
01-29-2013, 05:51 PM
I am mocking ILB in 4th and an OLB at one of our fifths and that will not change based on re-signing Barwin or moving Reed. If Barwin is here next year, it opens another area of focus on Kubiak's decisions.

Jules Winnfield
01-29-2013, 05:58 PM
why do you guys want to resign barwin?

WTH is up with you guys giving extensions to players who are not performing?
this is what im talking about. Kubiak and schaub contaminating the fan base.
yeaaa he's funny and has goofy hair lets give him an extension even though he sucked. yeaa lets keep walter as #2 reciever because he blocks good.


This team and now this fan base has no accountability whatsoever.

It sickens me.

mussop
01-29-2013, 06:00 PM
Assuming this does happen, it takes away the need to draft an ILB first round, so we could potentially focus on WR, OT, or another position where depth is needed.

DT. We have to get better in the middle. Brooks reed is a start but we have to upgrade Mitchell and Cody. They really got pushed around this year. We need someone that can not only hold their ground but push the pocket back.

You find a guy that can do that and it transforms this defense imediantly to elite status. No more double teaming Watt. LBs can now come up clean and our outside pass rushers get more sacks and cause more turnovers because the QB can't step up in the pocket.

Star Latui, Jonathan Hankins, kawaan short and John Jenkins should all be at the top of our draft board.

Wolf
01-29-2013, 06:11 PM
why do you guys want to resign barwin?

WTH is up with you guys giving extensions to players who are not performing?
this is what im talking about. Kubiak and schaub contaminating the fan base.
yeaaa he's funny and has goofy hair lets give him an extension even though he sucked. yeaa lets keep walter as #2 reciever because he blocks good.


This team and now this fan base has no accountability whatsoever.

It sickens me.

We need jackets for the new draft picks coming in

IDEXAN
01-29-2013, 06:14 PM
Clearly moving Brooks inside is more about his inability to perform up to what Wade is looking for in his OLB and less about his ability as an ILB.

Wolf
01-29-2013, 06:16 PM
In all seriousness. I am ok with Barwin coming back. He knows the system.

Last year, I don't know why he didn't show up. Hm or reed. Could it be missing Demeco and Cushing? idk.

But as usual it is the game of how much will it take to bring him back. I believe the Texans have much more leverage than in the past. We dot ave to over pay to bring players in now. If Barwin wants too much money, I would honk the Texans would say " hit he road"

mussop
01-29-2013, 06:18 PM
Clearly moving Brooks inside is more about his inability to perform up to what Wade is looking for in his OLB and less about his ability as an ILB.

Clearly it isn't.

mussop
01-29-2013, 06:20 PM
In all seriousness. I am ok with Barwin coming back. He knows the system.

Last year, I don't know why he didn't show up. Hm or reed. Could it be missing Demeco and Cushing? idk. "

Because we were so weak up the middle. No push. It's not rocket science.

Wolf
01-29-2013, 06:21 PM
Interesting from earlier this year. Maybe if the rumor is true. Wade might have a change of mind or this is more smoke screen as the draft approaches on who the Texans target

With Brian Cushing now on injured reserve, many fans are wondering if the Texans will move one of their top three outside linebackers – Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed or rookie Whitney Mercilus – to inside linebacker.

They won’t.

Asked Thursday if he had given any thought to that idea, Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips responded with a resounding “no” – before the question was even completely finished being asked.

That’s because they’re not inside linebackers, right?

“That’s right,” Phillips said as he walked through the Texans’ locker room at Reliant Stadium.

Simple as that?

“Yeah,” Phillips said. “You don’t take guys that do well at what they do and try to change ‘em into something that they’re not as adept at. But, we’ll work some things out. And like I’ve said, we played OK last week when Cush was gone. Hopefully, we’ll get better.”



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-not-moving-Mercilus-Reed-Barwin-to-ILB/dc7eff55-5ac0-4b8a-bb87-49e00b4d4bfc

Double Barrel
01-29-2013, 06:34 PM
Give Braman a shot, I think he could do it.

I like Braman, too. He's rough around the edges, but he's a high motor player. If they move Brooks inside, this will definitely create a hole for a guy like Braman on the outside.

why do you guys want to resign barwin?

WTH is up with you guys giving extensions to players who are not performing?
this is what im talking about. Kubiak and schaub contaminating the fan base.
yeaaa he's funny and has goofy hair lets give him an extension even though he sucked. yeaa lets keep walter as #2 reciever because he blocks good.


This team and now this fan base has no accountability whatsoever.

It sickens me.

Your Kubiak rant aside, I don't want Barwin back. I was not impressed with him at all in 2012.

Clearly moving Brooks inside is more about his inability to perform up to what Wade is looking for in his OLB and less about his ability as an ILB.

This mentality is what concerns me. They seem to be trying to make players fit a system instead of customizing a system to fit available talent.

Corrosion
01-29-2013, 06:54 PM
Hmmmm...not sure about Brooks at ILB, but honestly not thrilled at all about potentially re-signing Barwin. That dude never really showed up this year.

Does Brooks have coverage ability required at ILB in this system?

I mentioned this potential move months ago , long before people were talking about moving Bawrin inside (which I think is a horrible idea) .... I think he instantly upgrades the position and he does have the ability to cover as he had to do it as an OLB. To be honest , I think he's a much better fit inside than out.

I can see him inside even of they dont resign Barwin.

This does open up the possibility for another OLB to be drafted early along with a guy on the front be it NT/DT/DE. This draft will be really interesting.

Wolf6151
01-29-2013, 07:04 PM
Several of us in the mock forum have been saying this for months. Shift Reed to ILB next to Cush, resign Barwin and start him as SOLB and make Mercilus the WOLB.

Hmm...Texans front office seems to be reading the Texans Talk Draft Gurus!!!

Yep we've brought this up numerous times in the mock forum, this move just makes sense.

76Texan
01-29-2013, 07:09 PM
Deleted.

Can't seem to get the correct link to Photobucket to show Reed at LB in the 43 look from the Jags game last year.

I need to work on it.

Thorn
01-29-2013, 07:09 PM
I'm just gonna do what I always do for next season. Follow free agency, probably not get pumped up about that. The draft, I will probably get pretty pumped over that. Pre-season, well, there's no telling. And by the time the season starts, I'll be a brand new wide eyed fan ready to rock and roll again no matter who starts where.

It always happens that way. Can't help it.

Premier
01-29-2013, 07:12 PM
does this mean, in all likelihood, we will be drafting another 3-4 DE/OLB to sit behind merci and barwin.. if brooks can make the move then cush/reed inside tandem could be nice.. i heard they were considering moving brooks inside to cover gronk..

Lucky
01-29-2013, 07:29 PM
Hmmmm...not sure about Brooks at ILB, but honestly not thrilled at all about potentially re-signing Barwin. That dude never really showed up this year.

Does Brooks have coverage ability required at ILB in this system?
First, Wade deserves the benefit of the doubt. I didn't see Mario at OLB, but Phillips made it work. Brooks has looked as lost in coverage as most of the Texans LBs. Barwin does not deserve a big contract. I can't see re-signing him to anything more than a one year deal. But even if Barwin does sign a multiyear deal, that wouldn't be the worst contract decision the Texans have made.

Because we were so weak up the middle. No push. It's not rocket science.
Ever heard of this guy named JJ Watt? Wears #99? He got some push up the middle (and everwhere else). Blaming Barwin's failure on anyone but Barwin is laughable.

76Texan
01-29-2013, 07:33 PM
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/2012%20Week%2011%20Jags/Reed/

Reed at WLB in the 53 against the Jags

Nawzer
01-29-2013, 08:27 PM
I really hope they don't overspend on Barwin. I understand that good pass rushers are hard to find, but Barwin had a really down season and I wouldn't give him anything longer than a 2 year incentives laden deal. I think they still need to address the ILB and OLB positions this offseason.

Vance87
01-29-2013, 08:38 PM
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/2012%20Week%2011%20Jags/Reed/

Reed at WLB in the 53 against the Jags

Sweet, that was our best defensive performance of the year. :kitten:

Vinny
01-29-2013, 08:52 PM
Sweet, that was our best defensive performance of the year. :kitten:
a real qb lights up 5 linebacker/3DL's...but I guess you only need 3 on the backside when you play the Jags.

CloakNNNdagger
01-29-2013, 08:59 PM
If Barwin doesn't lose the Popeye look and go back 12 pounds to his 256 weight, he will be no different than the 2011 lead-in-the pants version.......and a waste of any money he is thrown.

WolverineFan
01-29-2013, 09:27 PM
They need to address both ILB and OLB in the draft regardless of Barwin re-signing or Reed moving inside.

Rey
01-29-2013, 09:36 PM
This could work or be a complete failure.

I'm nit a fan of the overall players that reed, barwin or merciless are. But they each have skill sets that can be useful.

I'd rather draft or sign a real MLB that won't have as many limitations that reed has. Hes not all that fluid and hes not all that quick or sudden when he's on the field. But if he's the silb then he's good enough to take in the fb, but he's going to get eaten alive in pass coverage in the middle of the field. If he has to cover for more than a few seconds.

Barwin is better suited for the solb position than the wolb position where he was counted on to be the primary source of outside pressure. But both are just average players. Nothing special about either and I'd be concerned with having both on the field for a majority of our snaps.

I'd rather add another dynamic player to the mix and not have so many blah guys with a returning from injury Cushing.

As far as merciless goes, he's good at getting to the qb when he's not touched or when he makes his second move to the qb once he starts scrambling or moving around. He's not shown that he can line up and beat tackles just from a pure skill stand point. Much of his sacks were unblocked or when a qb started to move around. But he has good quickness and closing speed. Again, a useful skill that is valuable, but I don't see him as being a dominant edge player. I think he can be ok if put in a good position...just like reed and barwin. I think they all have some big weaknesses to their games.

IMO, if this move happens and barwin re signs that won't be a good thing for the defense over the course of the year. I think they'd have some strong performances mixed with some awful ones, but overall I think they'd be an underwhelming group as a whole.

If I was the texans id let barwin go and leave reed at solb. Let merciless start as well, but draft another guy in the 1st or second round to put pressure on them both. I'm not thrilled with the ilb draft class, but there are guys in free agency that would be upgrades over what we had. Some older players, some younger guys. Pick one or two of them up.

tru80texan
01-29-2013, 09:44 PM
I really hope they don't overspend on Barwin. I understand that good pass rushers are hard to find, but Barwin had a really down season and I wouldn't give him anything longer than a 2 year incentives laden deal. I think they still need to address the ILB and OLB positions this offseason.

I believe the Texans will offer Barwin a fair deal for multiple years. The 1 year deal or incentive laden only deal I can't see working or being enough to sign him. There are plenty of teams going to a 3-4 & pass rushers w/ the potential that Barwin possesses are at a premium. Let's not forget or disregard the facts that this is a 6'3" 268lb OLB who runs a 4.5 forty & accumulated 11 sacks in 2011. He is capable & 1 down season hardly constitutes him as a complete bust imo. If that was the case then Cushing should've been deemed a bust as well as he suffered a slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well. Barwin has been around for 4yrs, but this was only his 2nd season as a starter & I believe he still has room to grow.

I don't believe he earned a huge contract by any means, but for the right price I would be happy to have him back as opposed to the unknown w/ a raw rookie. The Texans do still need to address the OLB & ILB in draft, IMO, for depth purposes.

Corrosion
01-29-2013, 09:46 PM
They need to address both ILB and OLB in the draft regardless of Barwin re-signing or Reed moving inside.

I dont believe they have the luxury of spending early picks on both spots , its one or the other as there are other positions that really need a dose of speed / youth.

Goldensilence
01-29-2013, 09:48 PM
They need to address both ILB and OLB in the draft regardless of Barwin re-signing or Reed moving inside.

This was my exact thought. All moving Reed to ILB is make it less of a high draft need. They're still going to need depth there because James was on a one year contract and while Merciless started to turn it up more as the season went on and increased PT they're going to need a capable 3rd OLB to rotate in.

tru80texan
01-29-2013, 09:54 PM
This was my exact thought. All moving Reed to ILB is make it less of a high draft need. They're still going to need depth there because James was on a one year contract and while Merciless started to turn it up more as the season went on and increased PT they're going to need a capable 3rd OLB to rotate in.

I guess you aren't big on Braman. I would actually like to see what he has to offer, but I do believe both ILB & OLB will need some depth. ILB more if Reed is moved & Barwin is re-signed.

Texan_Bill
01-29-2013, 10:10 PM
Interesting.

You know LZ father is back coaching in the NFL again.

Former Steelers, Browns coach Larry Zierlein to join Bruce Arians staff as asst. offensive line coach (http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2013/1/28/3927446/former-steelers-browns-coach-larry-zierlein-to-join-bruce-arians)

JUP!! I heard this earlier this afternoon...

While his new role will be somewhat diminished (I don't know what his current role will be) from his time at Pittsburgh, He'll still have a big role in their O-Line.

Congrats Coach Z... & Lance.

*EDIT*

Although, now in retrospect this may be the wrong format for this............ My bad! I'll step out.

Nawzer
01-29-2013, 10:42 PM
I believe the Texans will offer Barwin a fair deal for multiple years. The 1 year deal or incentive laden only deal I can't see working or being enough to sign him. There are plenty of teams going to a 3-4 & pass rushers w/ the potential that Barwin possesses are at a premium. Let's not forget or disregard the facts that this is a 6'3" 268lb OLB who runs a 4.5 forty & accumulated 11 sacks in 2011. He is capable & 1 down season hardly constitutes him as a complete bust imo. If that was the case then Cushing should've been deemed a bust as well as he suffered a slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well. Barwin has been around for 4yrs, but this was only his 2nd season as a starter & I believe he still has room to grow.

I don't believe he earned a huge contract by any means, but for the right price I would be happy to have him back as opposed to the unknown w/ a raw rookie. The Texans do still need to address the OLB & ILB in draft, IMO, for depth purposes.

I don't remember where I heard this, but it was probably on the radio and they said that most of Barwin's 11 sacks from 2011 were sort of "fluky". Honestly, I don't remember his performance from 2011 and that maybe a clue as well that maybe he was never really that good. He plays a premium position and he's not terrible, so he'll get some offers for sure. I just hope the Texans don't overextend themselves on Barwin.

rolyat93
01-29-2013, 10:45 PM
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.

powda
01-29-2013, 10:47 PM
This puts the 4 best backers on the field at the same time (assuming we resign kramer.) Reed was good at setting the edge but not as explosive as mercy in pass rush. I dont think reed will be worse then bradie james in coverage and he's got the anchor to hold up well in the middle. This reshuffling improves the pass rush and improves interior run defense. We'll see how mercy holds the edge...if this happens, we have a need for olb depth that wasn't there.

Texan_Bill
01-29-2013, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Corrosion

I hate morons.

And you consider me a friend???

Brisco_County
01-29-2013, 11:03 PM
Re-signing Barwin is the right move. The salary cap ensures that no team can afford awesomeness at every position, and the best time to sign one of those "good enough within the system" players is right after he has a down year. Sign him while his market value is low, have him shed 15 pounds, and it'd be a pretty good deal for the team.

Also, Reed is the strongest pound-for-pound player on the team, so it'll be interesting seeing how well he stops the run. And he has great acceleration for stunted blitzes.

tru80texan
01-29-2013, 11:19 PM
I don't remember where I heard this, but it was probably on the radio and they said that most of Barwin's 11 sacks from 2011 were sort of "fluky". Honestly, I don't remember his performance from 2011 and that maybe a clue as well that maybe he was never really that good. He plays a premium position and he's not terrible, so he'll get some offers for sure. I just hope the Texans don't overextend themselves on Barwin.

The same could easily be said about mario's sacks from that season, as well as many other seasons to be honest, & yet some hold him in high regards. Mario was extremely overrated, IMO, & he normally needed a clear advantage to even sniff a sack. Hardly the game changer, similar to Watt, that many falsely claimed he was. So that knock on Barwin by most in Houston is quite laughable after all the unearned attention Mario received.

Considering Barwin set a franchise record for sacks in 1 game w/ 4 & accumulated most of his sacks in the remaining 10 games when he took over Mario's position I would say his 2011 was quite memorable...at least it was to me. I think Barwin still has plenty of potential & 2 seasons is hardly enough for us to know what he is truly capable of IMO.

BullNation4Life
01-30-2013, 12:50 AM
Psst, this isn't news...I've been doing this on Madden all year...

Barwin
Cushing
Brooks
Mercilus

All about putting the best players on the field...

If the Texans FO had half a brain, they would have done this at the beginning of this year when they traded Ryans to Philly. Then when Cushing went down, could have slid Books over and let James play where Brooks was...

Hagar
01-30-2013, 12:55 AM
If Brooks moves into ILB, its going to make us really weak at OLB.

Whitney Mercilus
Connor Barwin
Jesse Nading

Nading has a lot of energy but isn't a starter or even 2nd string backup. Barwin had a terrible year. Mercilus had a good rookie season but he can't do it all by himself.

SAMURAITEXAN
01-30-2013, 03:10 AM
If Brooks moves into ILB, its going to make us really weak at OLB.

Whitney Mercilus
Connor Barwin
Jesse Nading

Nading has a lot of energy but isn't a starter or even 2nd string backup. Barwin had a terrible year. Mercilus had a good rookie season but he can't do it all by himself.

We got Braman too.

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 07:58 AM
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.

I would hope they bring back Dobbins or Ruud over Bradie James. If they move Reed it seems that Sharpton will be the backup at ILB. Dobbins is decent on special teams & we all know that needs all the help it can get.

nero THE zero
01-30-2013, 08:27 AM
Clearly moving Brooks inside is more about his inability to perform up to what Wade is looking for in his OLB and less about his ability as an ILB.

There was talk of, and possibly intention to, play him in the middle since he was drafted.

I have posted about it before (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1991031&postcount=13).
Herring also talked about Reed’s “linebacker body.”

“That’s where people get discombobulated with him,” Herring said. “Look, he’s 6-2½, 250. The fact that he was playing with his hand in the dirt (the three-point stance of a defensive end) in college turned him into a ‘tweener’ to some people. But he was always a ‘Mike’ linebacker to us. Half the teams in the draft wanted him bad, and the other half didn’t think he could (make the transition). We were in the half that saw the upside potential. He’s still projecting and growing as a player. The sky’s the limit.”

He's got the athleticism that we need, but it should be interesting to see if he has the "bulk" to live up to the pounding. I'd love to see this move paired with the drafting of a guy like John Jenkins. It'd really transform what's been a big weakness for our defense (i.e. the middle).

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 08:43 AM
There was talk of, and possibly intention to, play him in the middle since he was drafted.

I have posted about it before (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1991031&postcount=13).


He's got the athleticism that we need, but it should be interesting to see if he has the "bulk" to live up to the pounding. I'd love to see this move paired with the drafting of a guy like John Jenkins. It'd really transform what's been a big weakness for our defense (i.e. the middle).

I'm not sure this is an issue. Reed is listed at 250lbs which is slightly heavier then Cushing at 248lbs. I think Reed could prosper in the middle because he his good tackler & should be able to hold his ground & make plays going against interior lineman or FB's. Cushing & Reed in the middle looks very solid imo.

I do hope they address the NT w/ a big body similar to Jenkins, but not necessarily Jenkins. I wasn't too impressed w/ him watching the Senior Bowl practices & games. He seems to lack a consistent motor & at times seems to go through the motions as opposed to going all out. A big body is a must imo. Unfortunately, based on Wade's history I'm not sure he will feel the same.

deucetx
01-30-2013, 09:08 AM
I'm not overly concerned about Reed in coverage versus him being capable of making quick reads from the inside and learning to attack from that downhill angle. It's not a totally easy conversion which is why some (including myself) were against the move DURING the season. It's not an easy jump to do it during the progressing year. Now going into offseason where he gets a chance to attune himself to it more fully, study film and get the time/attention from the coaches it is more understandable.

Coverage wise our linebackers graded out like this:

Brian Cushing - 3.1
Tim Dobbins - 2.8
Brooks Reed - 1.7

So yeah Brooks was actually one of our better backers in coverage. Oh and he was our HIGHEST graded linebacker against the run. Yeah even higher than Cushing in that aspect though we're talking two different pursuit/attack angles and facing different type of block/blockers. Would be interesting if he could keep that up from the inside but for some reason that holds no explanation what so ever since there is little proof....I think he can.

Question becomes how do they feel about Braman? Do they think he is ready to be more than just a special teams guy? Would be interesting to find out.

But this defense needs something at ILB. Wade was overly dependant on the sub/dime packages where he would use a safety as if it was a linebacker and that killed us in games. Teams would spread out knowing Wade would skip a nickle package for the sub and run right at that safety and *sighs* James. We know the result of that. But if we have two ILB's athletic enough maybe we can rely on nickle more and not be so handicapped against spread formations.

BigBull17
01-30-2013, 09:26 AM
Like Brooks to ILB, but why would anyone want Barwin's gimp ass back. He was a zero basically all season. What did he do to deserve to be resigned? Held the edge against the run? Big deal. Find a guy who can rush a passer when not unblocked who can also hold the edge.

The same could easily be said about mario's sacks from that season, as well as many other seasons to be honest, & yet some hold him in high regards. Mario was extremely overrated, IMO, & he normally needed a clear advantage to even sniff a sack. Hardly the game changer, similar to Watt, that many falsely claimed he was. So that knock on Barwin by most in Houston is quite laughable after all the unearned attention Mario received.

Considering Barwin set a franchise record for sacks in 1 game w/ 4 & accumulated most of his sacks in the remaining 10 games when he took over Mario's position I would say his 2011 was quite memorable...at least it was to me. I think Barwin still has plenty of potential & 2 seasons is hardly enough for us to know what he is truly capable of IMO.

Except like 7 of them were unblocked. He didn't get that luxury this year and his numbers plummeted. He is exactly like Mario in that respect. Need the stars to align to be useful. I remember watching the first Ravens game last year and he was unblocked maybe 5 times and never got there. He had a fluke 10 games and thats it.

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 09:36 AM
I'm not overly concerned about Reed in coverage versus him being capable of making quick reads from the inside and learning to attack from that downhill angle. It's not a totally easy conversion which is why some (including myself) were against the move DURING the season. It's not an easy jump to do it during the progressing year. Now going into offseason where he gets a chance to attune himself to it more fully, study film and get the time/attention from the coaches it is more understandable.

Coverage wise our linebackers graded out like this:

Brian Cushing - 3.1
Tim Dobbins - 2.8
Brooks Reed - 1.7

So yeah Brooks was actually one of our better backers in coverage. Oh and he was our HIGHEST graded linebacker against the run. Yeah even higher than Cushing in that aspect though we're talking two different pursuit/attack angles and facing different type of block/blockers. Would be interesting if he could keep that up from the inside but for some reason that holds no explanation what so ever since there is little proof....I think he can.

Question becomes how do they feel about Braman? Do they think he is ready to be more than just a special teams guy? Would be interesting to find out.

But this defense needs something at ILB. Wade was overly dependant on the sub/dime packages where he would use a safety as if it was a linebacker and that killed us in games. Teams would spread out knowing Wade would skip a nickle package for the sub and run right at that safety and *sighs* James. We know the result of that. But if we have two ILB's athletic enough maybe we can rely on nickle more and not be so handicapped against spread formations.

Even if they are willing to give Braman a serious look, which I wouldnt mind seeing, I still believe they will draft another OLB w/in the 2nd to 4th rd. They've always wanted at least 3 solid edge rushers & outside of Braman there isn't much to choose from. I'll be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans acquire yet another Cowturd player if Barwin is not re-signed. With Victor Butler & Anthony Spencer becoming FA's I wouldn't put it past ol' Wade to bring in another cowturd who is familiar w/ his system. Butler could be a cheap alternative & we know wade loves his ex-players.

It seems the Sharpton project could be coming to an end w/ this potential move as he could never stay healthy & now be nothing more then solid depth at ILB. Which I would take Sharpton over James any day.

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 09:45 AM
Like Brooks to ILB, but why would anyone want Barwin's gimp ass back. He was a zero basically all season. What did he do to deserve to be resigned? Held the edge against the run? Big deal. Find a guy who can rush a passer when not unblocked who can also hold the edge.

I guess its safe to say you were saying the same thing about Cushing after his slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well?

Barwin has potential & showed it 2011. Players do have down years & to be honest most of the Texans defense had a down year in 2012. Assuming he his a bust after 1 bad season is a bit premature. For the right price bring him back. No need to over pay as there are other options, but assuming he did nothing & offers nothing is false. That mindset is exactly what got this team in some trouble when they assumed they could do w/out Winston, Briesel, & Ryans imo.

steelbtexan
01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
I mentioned this potential move months ago , long before people were talking about moving Bawrin inside (which I think is a horrible idea) .... I think he instantly upgrades the position and he does have the ability to cover as he had to do it as an OLB. To be honest , I think he's a much better fit inside than out.

I can see him inside even of they dont resign Barwin.

This does open up the possibility for another OLB to be drafted early along with a guy on the front be it NT/DT/DE. This draft will be really interesting.

Yep,

It lowers the priority in the draft. But the need for 1-2 pass rushers remains.

I still want Rick/Wade to pick a ILB in the 4-5th rd. They should be able to find a good depth player.

2slik4u
01-30-2013, 10:28 AM
Ok here is the plan every one make sign Wallace threads only for now on till FO gets the point lol

Dont want to derail this thread but not sure why you are so interestd in Mike Wallace. The dude's specialty is speed and the deep ball. Our QB has a noodle arm that underthrows every deep ball he attempts. Would not make sense to spend big money on a WR like Wallace unless we ditch Schaub and replace with a stronger arm...which we all know aint happening.

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 11:05 AM
Yep,

It lowers the priority in the draft. But the need for 1-2 pass rushers remains.

I still want Rick/Wade to pick a ILB in the 4-5th rd. They should be able to find a good depth player.

I wouldn't be surprised if they took ILB between rounds 2 & 4. Moving Reed & drafting a solid player would be good insurance if they have issues re-signing Cushing. You never know how contract negotiations will pan out, if at all, & setting themselves up like did w/ Mercilus would make some sense imo.

Vinny
01-30-2013, 11:08 AM
I guess its safe to say you were saying the same thing about Cushing after his slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well?

Barwin has potential & showed it 2011. Players do have down years & to be honest most of the Texans defense had a down year in 2012. Assuming he his a bust after 1 bad season is a bit premature.

One down year or one year with a ton of untouched sacks and 3 the next season?

Lance Z. has said on a couple occassions that Barwin lead the league in untouched sacks with 7 in 2011. Claims that most of these were from a particular stunt that the Texans used well 2011 that team figured out in 2012.

short answer..2011 may have been the fraud season.

beerlover
01-30-2013, 11:12 AM
there are some similarities to Cushing, both former DE's in College & BC seems to fit right inside. However, he lacks skill set is in coverage's, teams would game plan to attack him with RB/TE's. I would prefer to seem him #1 get healthy #2 go on a strict weight loss diet #3 work on speed & quickness. Unless Texans draft another edge rusher, all they have would be him & Whitney.

El Tejano
01-30-2013, 11:44 AM
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.

This is my concern.

Insideop
01-30-2013, 11:49 AM
I believe the Texans will offer Barwin a fair deal for multiple years. The 1 year deal or incentive laden only deal I can't see working or being enough to sign him. There are plenty of teams going to a 3-4 & pass rushers w/ the potential that Barwin possesses are at a premium. Let's not forget or disregard the facts that this is a 6'3" 268lb OLB who runs a 4.5 forty & accumulated 11 sacks in 2011. He is capable & 1 down season hardly constitutes him as a complete bust imo. If that was the case then Cushing should've been deemed a bust as well as he suffered a slump in his 2nd season as a starter as well. Barwin has been around for 4yrs, but this was only his 2nd season as a starter & I believe he still has room to grow.

I don't believe he earned a huge contract by any means, but for the right price I would be happy to have him back as opposed to the unknown w/ a raw rookie. The Texans do still need to address the OLB & ILB in draft, IMO, for depth purposes.

If Barwin resigns for the "right price" I guess that would be OK but something that is coming up within the next couple of years is the resigning of JJ Watt. I would prefer the Texans not tie up a lot of money on other players that may OK and put themselves in a bind later when it comes time to resign Watt. The offers for Watt, when he becomes a FA, could dwarf Mario's. My hope is the Texans will be able to extend him a few years before he can hit the market. They cannot lose Watt!

As for still addressing ILB and OLB in the draft, I couldn't agree with you more, even if they resign Barwin and move Reed to ILB. It may not be in the 1st or 2nd round but they will draft some LB's. They were looking at Sio Moore from Connecticut at the East/West All-star Game. He's an OLB that could go in the middle to late rounds. It's a very weak class for ILB, so they can't wait too long to pick one.

steelbtexan
01-30-2013, 03:02 PM
If Barwin resigns for the "right price" I guess that would be OK but something that is coming up within the next couple of years is the resigning of JJ Watt. I would prefer the Texans not tie up a lot of money on other players that may OK and put themselves in a bind later when it comes time to resign Watt. The offers for Watt, when he becomes a FA, could dwarf Mario's. My hope is the Texans will be able to extend him a few years before he can hit the market. They cannot lose Watt!

As for still addressing ILB and OLB in the draft, I couldn't agree with you more, even if they resign Barwin and move Reed to ILB. It may not be in the 1st or 2nd round but they will draft some LB's. They were looking at Sio Moore from Connecticut at the East/West All-star Game. He's an OLB that could go in the middle to late rounds. It's a very weak class for ILB, so they can't wait too long to pick one.

Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 03:36 PM
One down year or one year with a ton of untouched sacks and 3 the next season?

Let's not forget he did have a decent rookie season playing very sparingly & yet he accumulated 4.5 sacks which was half the total of the great Mario while playing quite a bit less then the great one. The potential is there imo. It's only been 2yrs in Wade's system & its obvious they are still debating on who goes where, so I think that has to be fixed before we call certain players a bust.

wolf123
01-30-2013, 04:23 PM
I called this from the beginning.:clap:

Reed is very similar to Cushing. He would make a much better ILB then a OLB. He just doesn't have the pass rush skills. He can set the edge just like Cushing did at OLB.

Vinny
01-30-2013, 04:56 PM
Let's not forget he did have a decent rookie season playing very sparingly & yet he accumulated 4.5 sacks which was half the total of the great Mario while playing quite a bit less then the great one. The potential is there imo. It's only been 2yrs in Wade's system & its obvious they are still debating on who goes where, so I think that has to be fixed before we call certain players a bust.
I never called him a bust. He was jag this year though. Nothing special. Potential means you haven't done it yet. Hopefully they sign him cheap and find another pass rusher.

tru80texan
01-30-2013, 05:29 PM
I never called him a bust. He was jag this year though. Nothing special. Potential means you haven't done it yet. Hopefully they sign him cheap and find another pass rusher.

I hear ya & agree. Barwin did himself no favors, but I'm attempting to look at the big picture & the seasons that I mentioned he did show some flashes of being a good player. I think acquiring an ILB & OLB is a must.

It's kinda funny how you defined "potential" because that was always a word that was linked to Mario yr in & yr out. Which always made me question at what point do you quit claiming there is untapped potential & the player is who he is. As you can probably tell...I'm not a Mario fan & haven't been for quite a few yrs.

The1ApplePie
01-30-2013, 05:40 PM
With Paul Kruegar and Anthony Spencer, two better-than-average SAM 3-4OLBs on the market, you'd think Barwin's value would drop a bit. Somebody will still go nuts and give him a big deal off of 2011 though.

steelbtexan
01-30-2013, 08:15 PM
This could work or be a complete failure.

I'm nit a fan of the overall players that reed, barwin or merciless are. But they each have skill sets that can be useful.

I'd rather draft or sign a real MLB that won't have as many limitations that reed has. Hes not all that fluid and hes not all that quick or sudden when he's on the field. But if he's the silb then he's good enough to take in the fb, but he's going to get eaten alive in pass coverage in the middle of the field. If he has to cover for more than a few seconds.

Barwin is better suited for the solb position than the wolb position where he was counted on to be the primary source of outside pressure. But both are just average players. Nothing special about either and I'd be concerned with having both on the field for a majority of our snaps.

I'd rather add another dynamic player to the mix and not have so many blah guys with a returning from injury Cushing.

As far as merciless goes, he's good at getting to the qb when he's not touched or when he makes his second move to the qb once he starts scrambling or moving around. He's not shown that he can line up and beat tackles just from a pure skill stand point. Much of his sacks were unblocked or when a qb started to move around. But he has good quickness and closing speed. Again, a useful skill that is valuable, but I don't see him as being a dominant edge player. I think he can be ok if put in a good position...just like reed and barwin. I think they all have some big weaknesses to their games.

IMO, if this move happens and barwin re signs that won't be a good thing for the defense over the course of the year. I think they'd have some strong performances mixed with some awful ones, but overall I think they'd be an underwhelming group as a whole.

If I was the texans id let barwin go and leave reed at solb. Let merciless start as well, but draft another guy in the 1st or second round to put pressure on them both. I'm not thrilled with the ilb draft class, but there are guys in free agency that would be upgrades over what we had. Some older players, some younger guys. Pick one or two of them up.

If Mercilus improves as much as he did between his Soph and Jr yrs in college Wade will have found his premeir pass rusher. This remains to be seen.

I'm meh about Barwin, if they re-sign him I think he will be an above avg SOLB. I get what you're saying about Reed, but he still would be an upgrade over the James/Dobbins duo that finished the yr. I look at the potential Cushing/Reed combo as somewhat comparable to the Bingham/Kiner ILB duo on the old Oiler teams. Reed will be a solid vet vet and Cushing will be the playmaker.

Corrosion
01-30-2013, 09:13 PM
Do we plan on bringing back Dobbins? I'm a fan of his, he's nice depth.

I think they do bring him back .... he played well when forced into action and was solid on ST.

Uncle Rico
01-30-2013, 09:32 PM
makes sense, and its the 'cheap' alternative. that way they wont be married to a defensive player with the 1st pick. i think that as an OLB reed was an average pass rusher, but as an ILB he'll be able to get to the QB and has the athleticism to cover a TE down the field. hey at least they're trying. i'm gonna slap someone if brady james and barret ruud are on this team next year.

powda
01-30-2013, 11:27 PM
I think they do bring him back .... he played well when forced into action and was solid on ST.

I was down on dobbins because of coverage, but overall he exceeded my expectations. Solid performance for a "scap heap type player."

b0ng
01-31-2013, 09:55 AM
Barwin re-signing is strictly a matter of price since he had such a poor season last year. I'm not willing to be as final on his evaluation but if he costs anything more than a couple million against the cap in 2013 then I think that might be too much.

Reed moving inside dependent on that situation is an interesting move and I think it makes them tougher to read during FA and the draft. Given an entire offseason to work on switching positions, I think it's a feasible idea with a reasonable enough amount of time to get up to speed.

GP
01-31-2013, 10:31 AM
I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.

deucetx
01-31-2013, 10:38 AM
I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.

The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.

GP
01-31-2013, 10:48 AM
The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.

I admit I don't pay much attention to the various scenarios where we're not utilizing a NT (as you've stated here).

We also had to dump Manning further down into the box to cover for the loss of Cushing, which I think was a bad move. Teams knew we didn't have the horses in the secondary to cover deeper routes, and we got picked on as a result of Manning crowding the line. In 2011, Manning was playing the pass more and occasionally coming on a blitz. I think we were better in 2011 as a result.

My concern with NT is that Cody and Mitchell, IMO, are sort of like Tim Dobbins at LB--The guys are better than average, but not capable of disrupting to the point that it opens other things up on a consistent basis for the other guys on D.

You put a true NT out there, a guy who is somewhat of a JJ Watt'ish type of player in terms of talent and passion and focus, and suddenly WHATEVER you got at LB, CB, and S can become much, much better.

But I see what you're saying, too. If that's how Wade approaches passing downs, and since teams are passing more and more...it might make more sense to stay pat at NT with Cody and Mitchell, go after more LBs as a result.

GP
01-31-2013, 10:49 AM
Never look past the potential for Wade to try and find that next JJ Watt and let Antonio Smith walk. He's a FA, right?

tru80texan
01-31-2013, 11:01 AM
Never look past the potential for Wade to try and find that next JJ Watt and let Antonio Smith walk. He's a FA, right?

Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.

GP
01-31-2013, 11:04 AM
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.

Good post. Thank you for reminding me that he's not a FA but that his salary might make him a cap casualty.

Good stuff in the rest of your post, too. Rep your way!

deucetx
01-31-2013, 11:10 AM
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.

Don't forget Tim Jamison. They actually signed him to the extension before he got hurt which made me immediately think Smith was a goner. Course after how the pass rush was essentially only two guys this year it may change their direction. What happens may speak about Smith's ability as a GM. Can he get a restructure or we looking at another 'Dump and go'.

Draft will be interesting. If they do like GP suggested and get a real strong NT maybe that means Wade will adjust his defense (and he freaking needs to) and maybe change his nickle to a 3-3 with Merci/Watt on the edge. I rather that than depend on the OLB's we have now if we retain Barwin.

While we have all been talking Schaub like crazy this defense was freaking atrocious against the Patriots and the Ravens made it look a hell of a lot easier than we did which irritated me to no end.

badboy
01-31-2013, 11:28 AM
Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?OH no! :kitten:

tru80texan
01-31-2013, 11:36 AM
Don't forget Tim Jamison. They actually signed him to the extension before he got hurt which made me immediately think Smith was a goner. Course after how the pass rush was essentially only two guys this year it may change their direction. What happens may speak about Smith's ability as a GM. Can he get a restructure or we looking at another 'Dump and go'.

Draft will be interesting. If they do like GP suggested and get a real strong NT maybe that means Wade will adjust his defense (and he freaking needs to) and maybe change his nickle to a 3-3 with Merci/Watt on the edge. I rather that than depend on the OLB's we have now if we retain Barwin.

While we have all been talking Schaub like crazy this defense was freaking atrocious against the Patriots and the Ravens made it look a hell of a lot easier than we did which irritated me to no end.

Yeah, must admit Jamison does get forgotten at times. He has flashed some potential in the past but I don't know if its enough to fully depend on him as a full time starter. I would rather seem him in rotation before deeming him a full time starter. Smith's contract seems to be a topic of concern & to be honest my faith in Rick Smith is very limited as the "dump & go" seems to be his specialty.

The NT position is one of those positions I was actually alluding to w/ the player waiting in the wings comment. Cody was never anything really special outside of his "on the nose" work & Mitchell has been improving at least enough to out produce Cody, so seeing them not address this need w/ an early pick or FA would, unfortunately, not surprise me. A big body in the middle would be great & I believe is needed but Wade has obviously felt otherwise here & when he was Arlington. It's hard to teach & old dog new tricks.

Wade's thought process since he has gotten here has somewhat confused me at times considering he at one point started an OLB who was just as big if not bigger then his D-lineman. I know he turned this defense & essentially the team around, but there is obviously some issues now & it does not seem that he is adjusting w/ the game plans or personnel. I hope some adjustments are made & I personally think a big body in the middle w/ a good motor would be a great start.

badboy
01-31-2013, 12:17 PM
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.Not sure what his 2013 base is. His original cotract was restructured in April 2011 but I cannot discover how. ROTO still shows the $6m but this:

Posted by Nick Scurfield on August 4, 2011 – 1:38 pm


Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson, linebacker DeMeco Ryans and defensive end Antonio Smith have restructured their contracts, head coach Gary Kubiak said on Thursday morning.


Now it could have just effected the 2011 season to help get under the cap OR '11, '12 and '13. IIRC somhad had filed a guestimate on new deal but I canno tlocate.

thunderkyss
01-31-2013, 12:21 PM
Yeah, must admit Jamison does get forgotten at times. He has flashed some potential in the past but I don't know if its enough to fully depend on him as a full time starter. I would rather seem him in rotation before deeming him a full time starter. Smith's contract seems to be a topic of concern & to be honest my faith in Rick Smith is very limited as the "dump & go" seems to be his specialty.


I wouldn't think the Texans are looking at Jamison as a starter. To me, both Crick & Jamison are solid role players who may one day be starters, but right now I haven't seen anything to feel good about either of them stepping in that role.

If we lose Antonio, we should expect a big drop from that position & take precautions to make sure we have a guy to start. FA or draft.

Just my opinion, but if we go into 2013 with either Jamison or Crick starting, our FO failed us. & I like what I've seen from both Crick & Jamison, just don't think they are starting caliber yet.

Vinny
01-31-2013, 12:37 PM
Jameson isn't a starter quality player...well, if he is you are looking for a starter.

mussop
01-31-2013, 09:22 PM
I could see Gary going heavy on defense in the draft.

First round, draft a better NT to help out Watt. Or go LB in round 1 and NT in round 2, whatever is better value at those two spots.

This gets us more push up front with the better NT, and gets us another LB who will definitely see action in 2013 (in the 34, LBs rule the day...and we were crushed with injuries there in 2012). Cushing is back, too. The front 7 strengthened as a result. Cody and Mitchell as depth and rotation at NT.

This will make the Secondary better.

Which makes the defense back to its 2011 form....which makes "Gary Ball" better than it was in 2012.

WR/TE in the 3rd and 4th, token QB somewhere in the 5th or beyond. CBs in later rounds. Call it a draft. Then hope you can find some UDFA gold nuggets.


This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

76Texan
01-31-2013, 09:44 PM
This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

The thing is we've been giving Wade a lot of toys to play with ever since he's been here.

mussop
01-31-2013, 11:24 PM
The thing is we've been giving Wade a lot of toys to play with ever since he's been here.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

76Texan
02-01-2013, 12:14 PM
This is the way I have seen this offseason since before it was the offseason. I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them. Get the defense back to where they were last year by improving the weak area (middle) and look for young players with potential on offense to take over in time. I would like to see an OT with good feet at some point in the draft to groom as a swing tackle.

The OL played better in the playoffs and with more time and a full training camp should be even better next year. This will automatically improve the running game and take pressure of Schaub as will an improved defense.

By giving Schaub more weapons and ignoring the defense we will actually be relying on Schaub more thus adding more pressure on him to be the man. Which we all know he is not.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.
We brought in several defensive players: Manning, JJo, Watt, Reeds, B Harris, Mercilus (2 high paying FAs and 4 draft picks - 2 firsts, and 2 seconds.)

But we took away a couple of veterans on the line.
(B Brook was a third, but haven't played much yet.)
We also lost a vet TE who had developed into a red zone weapon, replacing him with Graham,
a 4th round draft pick (Wade also has Crick and Carmichael, two 4ths, on his unit.)
We replaced our deepest threat with a slower Jean who was so inconsistent downfield that he was replaced by Posey (a 3rd) late in the season.
The 4th that we used on Martin in the slot also failed Schaub several times, dropping 4 passes in very few routes ran, slipped and fell on another, and often got beat to the spot (not being aggressive enough) several times.
We also lost the bruiser Leach, then Vickers.

All these lost on personnel hindered the running game; and in turn, affected the passing game.

I don't even ask for "more", just enough to replace the lost, and the defense still has more fire power than the O.

You know I only rate Schaub somewhere between 11-15, but I must admit, the Texans did not give him enough pieces to function at a high level, capable of truly contending in the play-offs.

thunderkyss
02-01-2013, 12:32 PM
I dont get the add more weapons around Schaub approach. It's not like he is capable of utilizing them.

Where does this come from? Schaub has consistently shown the ability to spread the ball around & get the ball out on time. He's thrown it deep, short, midrange...... he's thrown the screen, between the hashes, outside the numbers.....

Again I'm not his biggest fan, but he's made just about every throw you can ask a QB to make. He doesn't throw the fade as often or as well as I'd like to see. I don't like his ball placement. I don't think he leads receivers when he should...

But he doesn't regularly lead them into trouble, he doesn't regularly take sacks, he doesn't regularly make dumb plays, & he generally takes care of the ball.

He's only 31..... I know he looks 41 but he's not. He's not as mobile a QB as I'd like. He generally does not extend plays. But he's been more good, than worthless through out his career.

It takes a while before he starts to trust some receivers...... I get it. Took him a while to trust Jacoby... ok, he never got around to trusting Jacoby, but there's a reason for that. Took him a while to trust Dressen but he eventually did.

He's coming around to trusting Graham, looks like he was getting into Posey.... he had no problem throwing to Martin for a while...

Schaub's got some issues, but delivering the ball... hitting open receivers, isn't one of them.

thunderkyss
02-01-2013, 07:33 PM
The thing with this is, the NT doesn't play that much at all. Those passing situations those guys are usually not on the field. Our nickle and sub packages are mainly Watt and Smith as the linemen and our edge guys. That's it. Among 3-4 teams I looked up our NT's seemed to play the least in comparison. So getting a NT first may not solve as much as we all hope unless someone stops being stubborn and makes some proper adjustments against elite/spread teams.

I believe if we get a Ngata/Raji type of player that player would stay on the field more often. The Ninja had an excellent year, he's under contract, & I think he's a Texan through & through, meaning he'll restructure (I don't think we'll ask him to take a paycut after the year he had) if we need him to.

That said, unless Wade sees a Jj Watt type of guy in the first, I'd much rather they try to find the guy we need (Crick maybe) in the lower rounds. With competent coaches on defense, we should expect to see UDFAs (Jamison maybe) become highly productive members on the defensive side of the ball. Or at least contribute to the extent as Quin & McCain.

EllisUnit
02-01-2013, 10:04 PM
First, LOL if you think Gary had ANYTHING to do with this

2nd, this is a great move but IMO you can add olb to our list of needs even if we resign barwin.....still need a legit 3rd rusher to rotate in there

Not to mention NT is still a big need

Might not of been GK ideal but you can bet he had to approve it before it happened.

Insideop
02-01-2013, 10:26 PM
Agreed on Watt, Barwin's value should be very reasonable. He'going to be playing the Sam, so his sack total should go down accordingly. SAM is Barwins best position. He was miscast as a pass rushing WILL. Hopefully Mercilus will show the kind of improvement he did in college from his soph to Jr yrs and become the pass rusher the defense is lacking.

Where did you get the list of who the Texans were talking too at the East/west and Sr Bowl?

Saw it on Walterfootball.com. Here is a link http://walterfootball.com/eastwest2013interviews1.php

CloakNNNdagger
02-01-2013, 10:46 PM
I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.:kitten:

Insideop
02-01-2013, 11:04 PM
I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.:kitten:

Good! Then I hope we get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick in 2014! :)

SteveSlaton20
02-03-2013, 09:06 AM
not sure how i feel about this. brooks reed played DE in high school/college and never had to cover.

one of the reason why cushing make this defense excellent is because he can cover, play the run well, and blitz. sure reed can be a run stopper and can blitz, but to be a good ilb, he needs to be able to cover.

GP
02-03-2013, 10:32 AM
I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.:kitten:

I hope he leaves.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 11:27 AM
not sure how i feel about this. brooks reed played DE in high school/college and never had to cover.

one of the reason why cushing make this defense excellent is because he can cover, play the run well, and blitz. sure reed can be a run stopper and can blitz, but to be a good ilb, he needs to be able to cover.

Reed is a second year player in the NFL. He's covered NFL TEs, RBs, & WRs as an OLB.

I think we can forget about what he was asked to do in college & high-school.

Hervoyel
02-03-2013, 11:35 AM
The same could easily be said about mario's sacks from that season, as well as many other seasons to be honest, & yet some hold him in high regards. Mario was extremely overrated, IMO, & he normally needed a clear advantage to even sniff a sack. Hardly the game changer, similar to Watt, that many falsely claimed he was. So that knock on Barwin by most in Houston is quite laughable after all the unearned attention Mario received.

Considering Barwin set a franchise record for sacks in 1 game w/ 4 & accumulated most of his sacks in the remaining 10 games when he took over Mario's position I would say his 2011 was quite memorable...at least it was to me. I think Barwin still has plenty of potential & 2 seasons is hardly enough for us to know what he is truly capable of IMO.

For good or ill I'm kind of in this position where Barwin is concerned. Two season, one good and one bad aren't enough to determine anything. Give me a third season and lets see how it goes. Then I'll decide which way he's trending. I mean, if the guy comes out next year and gets 10-12 sacks then what does that mean? It means 2012 he had a down year.

Now on the other hand if he comes out in 2013 and keeps stinking it up then you want to have another player to turn to on the roster to maybe light a fire under Barwin's ass or replace him. I still think if we can sign Barwin now for a reasonable amount of money then do it. Just don't break the bank on him yet.

Lucky
02-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Give me a third season and lets see how it goes. Then I'll decide which way he's trending.
If Barwin would take a one year deal, that would be great. But, I'm sure some team more desperate than the Texans will offer more than that. 19 sacks in 49 games from a primary pass rusher is just not good enough. Had Barwin still a year left on his deal, the Texans should be looking for competition, if not a replacement.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
Now on the other hand if he comes out in 2013 and keeps stinking it up then you want to have another player to turn to on the roster to maybe light a fire under Barwin's ass or replace him. I still think if we can sign Barwin now for a reasonable amount of money then do it. Just don't break the bank on him yet.

& that's the question. What's a reasonable amount?

I liked what I saw from Barwin, playing spot duty as a 4-3 end coming off the strongside. I liked what I saw from him as the SOLB in a 3-4. He's good against the run, much bigger & stronger than Reed. He looks good running backwards, dropping into coverage, flipping his hips.... he's not "fast" but he can run.

He is not & never will be a beast of a pass rusher. 11 sacks from the WOLB position said as much. His performance this season says as much.

We already got ourselves into trouble paying guys more than their production warrants, we don't need Barwin to be another.

steelbtexan
02-03-2013, 12:13 PM
Antonio is actually under contract. It's the size of the salary that is being questioned. At a 6M base salary this upcoming season some are speculating that that could be a bit much & he could be looked at as a salary cap casualty. I too wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a DE & cut Smith. I think it could also depend on how highly they think of Crick.

This draft is quite interesting, imo, because the Texans have some holes, but in most of the positions they seem to have players they think highly of waiting in the wings & its a matter of whether or not they believe those players can develop to become key contributors or starters. Tough call on what that 1st round pick will bring. OLB is the only position I see as a must if Barwin leaves & they choose to keep Reed at ILB.

Which is why I'm on board with the Texans taking Datone Jones at 27 if he's still there. Like BL had in one of his mocks.

That's if Barwin walks. Otherwise it's all offense for the 1st three picks for me. If the talent level is there when the Texans pick.

Lucky
02-03-2013, 02:16 PM
The more I look at this, the more I am for keeping Reed at OLB and letting Barwin walk in free agency. Draft an OLB (not in the first 2 rounds), and let him compete with Braman for the top reserve OLB spot. I expect more out of Mercilus as a pass rusher in 2013. And Reed is a known commodity, very serviceable when healthy.

HJam72
02-03-2013, 04:17 PM
I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.:kitten:

Best think we could do with Barwin is let the Colts sign him for way too much money. :)

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 04:26 PM
I'm not sure that Barwin will be here again.........for a hometown cheap. Something tells me that just like last year, Barwin thinks a lot of himself.........and there will be some team out there that is just as delusional.:kitten:

I wonder if maybe Barwin doesn't see himself as a 3-4 DE. Maybe he's wanting to hit FA to sign with a 4-3 team?

steelbtexan
02-05-2013, 10:48 AM
I hope not, we MUST get secondary help, in my mind it is just as important as the LB need IF we move Reed to ILB. I can see BPA in first, then depending on what position that addresses, OL and LB/Secondary in the next two. Before someone says "what about WR?" ... until we get a real QB that position doesn't get us far.

The offense scored 1 TD in 6 qtrs. It needs to be fixed 1st and foremost. There should be talent available at those spots without reaching.

If Schaub isn't the QB that can win a SB, (In your mind) then wouldn't it make sense to have all of the offensive pieces in place for the next QB the Texans aquire?

The Texans aren't bad on defense, they shutoutcincy in a playoff game. They jst need to add a S/CB/OLB. Depth mainly, and Wade should be able to find these guys in rds 3-5.

The only way I draft defense early is if a pass rusher like Datone Jones falls to 27. It's time to bring Casey Hampton home to finish out his career and draft a young NT like Montori Hughes late in the draft.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 06:55 PM
If Schaub isn't the QB that can win a SB, (In your mind) then wouldn't it make sense to have all of the offensive pieces in place for the next QB the Texans aquire?


Depends on who that next guy is. If it's Kaepernick, we could have got to the Super Bowl with a borderline bust (Michael Crabtree) & an NFL has been (Randy Moss)....

mussop
02-05-2013, 07:27 PM
The offense scored 1 TD in 6 qtrs. It needs to be fixed 1st and foremost. There should be talent available at those spots without reaching.

If Schaub isn't the QB that can win a SB, (In your mind) then wouldn't it make sense to have all of the offensive pieces in place for the next QB the Texans aquire?

The Texans aren't bad on defense, they shutoutcincy in a playoff game. They jst need to add a S/CB/OLB. Depth mainly, and Wade should be able to find these guys in rds 3-5.

The only way I draft defense early is if a pass rusher like Datone Jones falls to 27. It's time to bring Casey Hampton home to finish out his career and draft a young NT like Montori Hughes late in the draft.

7 pro bowlers on offense, 2 on defense. We have easily a top 4 WR, a top 4 RB and a top 7 TE. Drafting a WR in the first this year is a waste. The talent at WR in this draft is fairly even for the top 6 or 7 guys. If we use our top pick on WR it will not have the impact that people here are wanting. Wr's seldom make a big impact their first year.

Now if you want to add top tier TE thats another story. There are a few really really good ones in this draft. We could probably trade back and still get one to the top ones. As much as we run two TE sets I could see one of them making an impact.

We need to get past Denver and NE to get to the super bowl. I left out Baltimore because I think we already match up well against them. I just don't see us outscoring either one of them in a high scoring game. IMO the best way to beat those guys is to add more talent next to Watt. The more help we give him the harder it will be for offenses to game plan him.

Pressure pressure pressure on the QB and a strong Running game is the way to beat them.

Mr teX
02-05-2013, 07:31 PM
I proposed this last year.....someone find my post where I detailed this

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 07:44 PM
I proposed this last year.....someone find my post where I detailed this

It makes perfect sense to me. Brooks is a good player, he deserves to be on the field. But he's not a pass rusher anymore than Brian Cushing was. But him behind the LOS & give him more opportunity to make plays.

Put Barwin (1 year deal, $3M.... that's my final offer) at SOLB & let him earn his money. Then we'll have Whitney & some newly drafted Stud competing for snaps on the weak side.

Then if I'm not getting pressure from my front 4...... I send a LB up the middle. Which one? That's the beauty of it right there. Cushing's the man you don't want to see. But Reed..... at game speed, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Heck, if I'm feeling frisky I'll drop Barwin into coverage & you'll think you're seeing double as Cushing & Reed rush up the middle.

mussop
02-05-2013, 08:15 PM
7 pro bowlers on offense, 2 on defense. We have easily a top 4 WR, a top 4 RB and a top 7 TE. Drafting a WR in the first this year is a waste. The talent at WR in this draft is fairly even for the top 6 or 7 guys. If we use our top pick on WR it will not have the impact that people here are wanting. Wr's seldom make a big impact their first year.

Now if you want to add top tier TE thats another story. There are a few really really good ones in this draft. We could probably trade back and still get one to the top ones. As much as we run two TE sets I could see one of them making an impact.

We need to get past Denver and NE to get to the super bowl. I left out Baltimore because I think we already match up well against them. I just don't see us outscoring either one of them in a high scoring game. IMO the best way to beat those guys is to add more talent next to Watt. The more help we give him the harder it will be for offenses to game plan him.

Pressure pressure pressure on the QB and a strong Running game is the way to beat them.

Also offense was 8th in scoring only 3 points behind Atlanta and averaged 26 points a game. The defense was ranked 23 in points allowed giving up 20.7 points per game.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 08:24 PM
The offense scored 1 TD in 6 qtrs. It needs to be fixed 1st and foremost. There should be talent available at those spots without reaching.

.

In the last game of the regular season v. the Colts, the defense allowed the Colts to run out the clock with a 7 or 9 minute drive that ended with Luck kneeling down on the last play to run out the clock. This, in a game that meant something to the Texans and nothing to the Colts.

What's your point??

See my sig:

ALL phases were FAIL!

steelbtexan
02-06-2013, 12:05 AM
In the last game of the regular season v. the Colts, the defense allowed the Colts to run out the clock with a 7 or 9 minute drive that ended with Luck kneeling down on the last play to run out the clock. This, in a game that meant something to the Texans and nothing to the Colts.

What's your point??

See my sig:

ALL phases were FAIL!

True

But the Vikings game was probably the most boring game I've attended and I've been there for all of them except the 1st yr. I did make it to the Buffalo game the 1st yr and got hooked. LOL

Lucky
02-06-2013, 08:18 PM
Also offense was 8th in scoring only 3 points behind Atlanta and averaged 26 points a game. The defense was ranked 23 in points allowed giving up 20.7 points per game.

The Texans defense was 9th in points allowed, 7th in yards allowed.

mussop
02-06-2013, 08:40 PM
The Texans defense was 9th in points allowed, 7th in yards allowed.

Nope not according to NFL.com

BullBlitz
02-06-2013, 09:36 PM
I hope he leaves.

Me too. And I hope that he ends up like Vonta Leach.

ArlingtonTexan
02-06-2013, 09:51 PM
Nope not according to NFL.com

They were the 23rd least bad at allowing points or 9th best in allowing points.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2012&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=false

mussop
02-06-2013, 09:57 PM
They were the 23rd least bad at allowing points or 9th best in allowing points.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2012&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=false

Yep I was looking at it backwards. :vincepalm:

ArlingtonTexan
02-06-2013, 11:14 PM
Yep I was looking at it backwards. :vincepalm:

Trust me i have done worse.

Playoffs
03-02-2013, 11:44 AM
Outside linebacker Brooks Reed could potentially move inside, according to Texans coach Gary Kubiak at the NFL Scouting Combine. (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Brooks-Reed-to-inside-linebacker-a-possibilty-Kubiak-says/967cceda-6f77-4d4d-9dce-9d65a2085eef)

“I think we have to continue to look that way,” Kubiak said in response to a question about Reed possibly making the switch. “He’s very capable of being a stack player… playing inside in our 3-4. Yes, that could happen. But we like him as a SAM. He’s a heck of a SAM player.”

NFL analyst Adam Caplan of Sirius/XM Radio said at the Combine that Reed’s motor and the fact that he was successful early in his career are positive signs for his ability to handle a full-time switch. Caplan pointed to Brad Jones of the Green Bay Packers as a player who successfully moved from outside to inside linebacker last season.

Another notable example is former New England Patriots linebacker Tedy Bruschi. Like Reed, Bruschi played defensive end at the University of Arizona (1992-95), then started his NFL career as an outside linebacker. He was moved inside after five seasons and went on to become a two-time All-Pro and three-time Super Bowl winner.

“It could work,” Caplan said. “It doesn’t always work. If the guy’s never played before, he’s going to have to learn it. He’ll start in OTAs after the draft, and what they can do is they can get him ready for it and get him the information that he needs and he can watch tape of how to play inside, but it’s just a process. Mentally, it’s a major test.

“When you’re playing outside standing up, your job more often than not is to rush, then you drop when you have to cover. His main job will be playing the run when you’re inside, and he’s lining up inside instead of outside. So it’s a different process, and he’s got to think differently. It will not be an easy transition if he’s never done it before. But coaches love when they can find a guy who can rush from the inside. It’s like an added bonus.”

mussop
03-02-2013, 11:53 AM
Which is why I'm on board with the Texans taking Datone Jones at 27 if he's still there. Like BL had in one of his mocks.

That's if Barwin walks. Otherwise it's all offense for the 1st three picks for me. If the talent level is there when the Texans pick.

you want us to draft a 280lb DE? He is one of the most over rated players in this draft. Yeh he looked good in one on one's but he will get pushed around in real games. Now if you just want to use him in passing situations thats fine but don't use our first for that.

otisbean
03-02-2013, 12:01 PM
you want us to draft a 280lb DE? He is one of the most over rated players in this draft. Yeh he looked good in one on one's but he will get pushed around in real games. Now if you just want to use him in passing situations thats fine but don't use our first for that.

I'm curious why you think he'd get pushed around in games? He had a very strong senior bowl both in practices and games. Lets also face the fact that the ninja is getting up there in years and makes ALOT of $$$.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83250&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

I'd favor a draft of

1) Jones
2) Jamie Collins OLB
3a) Swope
3b) bpa at OL or DB or even another WR or TE

Tailgate
03-02-2013, 12:19 PM
27. Houston -* Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
Z-Report Says: I thought about putting WRs DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods here, but the way my board is going, the Texans would probably see strong WR value in the 2nd round. I put Manti Te’o here and then deleted it because my guess is that they will want to go with another, less expensive ILB in round 2 or 3 to compete with Darryl Sharpton. Jones, is a tough DE with good strength who would be tabbed to replace Antonio Smith down the road. Jones has the quickness to attack the gaps in Wade Phillips’ defense scheme and he has shown the ability to handle himself against the run.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/03/mock-draft-version-1-the-texans-strengthen-a-strength/

thunderkyss
03-02-2013, 12:50 PM
I'm curious why you think he'd get pushed around in games? He had a very strong senior bowl both in practices and games. Lets also face the fact that the ninja is getting up there in years and makes ALOT of $$$.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83250&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE



I think,

He's not going to take Watt's place. He's too big to play OLB. He's going to have to play in Antonio Smith's place. We call Antonio a DE since we play a 3-4, but he's really like an UT in a 4-3, even on passing downs.

This guy will be playing the 3 tech, attacking the gap between the weakside guard & tackle. That's a lot different than rushing the outside of the tackle like he probably did in college.

I don't know this guy, but if you don't think he can play inside, he won't fit in our system. He's about Antonio's size, but it's a totally different mindset.

AJ-80
03-02-2013, 02:11 PM
I get my haircut by the same dude as Reed, he told me that Reed was really excited to get going at his new position. I think its a fantastic move.

Playoffs
03-02-2013, 02:17 PM
I get my haircut by the same dude as Reed, he told me that Reed was really excited to get going at his new position...So it's a done deal? I didn't know. That impacts our draft strategy.

thunderkyss
03-02-2013, 02:20 PM
So it's a done deal? I didn't know. That impacts our draft strategy.

I'm sure it's contingent on Barwin.

AJ-80
03-02-2013, 02:20 PM
So it's a done deal? I didn't know. That impacts our draft strategy.

I wouldn't be certain about that since its secondhand information, but from what he told me, it sure sounded like Reed was really excited to get going at ILB

otisbean
03-02-2013, 02:22 PM
I think,

He's not going to take Watt's place. He's too big to play OLB. He's going to have to play in Antonio Smith's place. We call Antonio a DE since we play a 3-4, but he's really like an UT in a 4-3, even on passing downs.

This guy will be playing the 3 tech, attacking the gap between the weakside guard & tackle. That's a lot different than rushing the outside of the tackle like he probably did in college.

I don't know this guy, but if you don't think he can play inside, he won't fit in our system. He's about Antonio's size, but it's a totally different mindset.

I see him as a replacement for Smith, maybe not this season but next. I do think he can play OLB in certain situations, bumping to NT on passing downs. Given that we play a hybrid 3-4, I like DJs flexibility.

mussop
03-02-2013, 06:51 PM
I'm curious why you think he'd get pushed around in games? He had a very strong senior bowl both in practices and games. Lets also face the fact that the ninja is getting up there in years and makes ALOT of $$$.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83250&draftyear=2013&genpos=DE

I'd favor a draft of

1) Jones
2) Jamie Collins OLB
3a) Swope
3b) bpa at OL or DB or even another WR or TE

Don't you find it a little curious he wasn't ranked that high before the senior bowl? He had years to impress in real games yet most thought of him as a late second at best. He is a quick twitch athlete. Guys like him always look sitter than they really are in senior bowl type situations. He has the frame to get bigger for sure but I'm not using our first round pick this year on A player that isn't going to make an immediate impact. We're to close and have to many holes to fill to do that again.

He reminds me of Mitchell. We already have him.

And Antonio had probably his best year last year. He easily was our second best player on defense.

otisbean
03-03-2013, 07:04 AM
Don't you find it a little curious he wasn't ranked that high before the senior bowl? He had years to impress in real games yet most thought of him as a late second at best. He is a quick twitch athlete. Guys like him always look sitter than they really are in senior bowl type situations. He has the frame to get bigger for sure but I'm not using our first round pick this year on A player that isn't going to make an immediate impact. We're to close and have to many holes to fill to do that again.

He reminds me of Mitchell. We already have him.

And Antonio had probably his best year last year. He easily was our second best player on defense.

I can see where you're coming from. I really like his versatility and think he'd be a good piece for Wade to utilize in different situations. Having said that, if we went another direction I wouldn't be upset. I feel like our pass rush last year wasn't up to snuff so I'd really like it to be addressed early. I favor the Giants mentality of consistently grabbing good pass rushers.

steelbtexan
03-03-2013, 08:49 AM
Don't you find it a little curious he wasn't ranked that high before the senior bowl? He had years to impress in real games yet most thought of him as a late second at best. He is a quick twitch athlete. Guys like him always look sitter than they really are in senior bowl type situations. He has the frame to get bigger for sure but I'm not using our first round pick this year on A player that isn't going to make an immediate impact. We're to close and have to many holes to fill to do that again.

He reminds me of Mitchell. We already have him.

And Antonio had probably his best year last year. He easily was our second best player on defense.

He had a very good Sr yr under Mora, Jones is a really good pass rusher which is one of the biggest things the Texans were missing last yr. Mora moved him around alot, Jones was the Bruins bestdefensive player. He played DE most of the time, but also playe some DT/Leo/MLB in different situations.

With Reed moving to ILB drafting a versatile quick twitch athleete like Jones should be a no brainer. People get to carried away on what position a guy plays instead of seeing a guy like Jones as a diffencemaker. I mean DE wasn't really a huge need when Wade told Rick to pick Watt.

The Texans defense badly need an infusion of speed. Drafting guys like Jones in the the 1st and since Reed will be moving to ILB you could probably draft an LB like Xavier Gooden who is a former S that moved to OLB is 6'1 243 4.47 to add speed to cover TE's like Gronk/Hernandez or speedy RB's like Vereen on 3rd downs, you could probably get a guy like Gooden with the Supp 3rd or 4th rd pick.

What's sad is after all of the picks Rick/Gary/Wade have invested over the yrs and the fact that the Texans have a young defense the defense is still woefully lacking in speed/playmakers.

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2013, 10:28 AM
He had a very good Sr yr under Mora, Jones is a really good pass rusher which is one of the biggest things the Texans were missing last yr. Mora moved him around alot, Jones was the Bruins bestdefensive player. He played DE most of the time, but also playe some DT/Leo/MLB in different situations.

With Reed moving to ILB drafting a versatile quick twitch athleete like Jones should be a no brainer. People get to carried away on what position a guy plays instead of seeing a guy like Jones as a diffencemaker. I mean DE wasn't really a huge need when Wade told Rick to pick Watt.

The Texans defense badly need an infusion of speed. Drafting guys like Jones in the the 1st and since Reed will be moving to ILB you could probably draft an LB like Xavier Gooden who is a former S that moved to OLB is 6'1 243 4.47 to add speed to cover TE's like Gronk/Hernandez or speedy RB's like Vereen on 3rd downs, you could probably get a guy like Gooden with the Supp 3rd or 4th rd pick.

What's sad is after all of the picks Rick/Gary/Wade have invested over the yrs and the fact that the Texans have a young defense the defense is still woefully lacking in speed/playmakers.

The team in general is lacking in speed and play makers . That's why the special teams stink so bad . :foottap:

mussop
03-03-2013, 02:34 PM
I can see where you're coming from. I really like his versatility and think he'd be a good piece for Wade to utilize in different situations. Having said that, if we went another direction I wouldn't be upset. I feel like our pass rush last year wasn't up to snuff so I'd really like it to be addressed early. I favor the Giants mentality of consistently grabbing good pass rushers.

I'm not worried about his ability to rush the passer, I'm worried about how well he will hold up against the run. At 280lbs I don't see it.

Also why use our first round pick on a player that isn't going to start?

aussie_texan
03-03-2013, 07:34 PM
I'm not worried about his ability to rush the passer, I'm worried about how well he will hold up against the run. At 280lbs I don't see it.

Also why use our first round pick on a player that isn't going to start?

Mercilus?

Lucky
03-03-2013, 07:45 PM
Mercilus?
Good point. Mercilus was probably drafted to start in 2013. Antonio Smith could be gone in 2014 (though he could get an extension this offseason, as well.) If so, the Texans will need a replacement, so why not be it with a 2nd year guy with some snaps under his belt?

otisbean
03-04-2013, 09:12 AM
I'm not worried about his ability to rush the passer, I'm worried about how well he will hold up against the run. At 280lbs I don't see it.

Also why use our first round pick on a player that isn't going to start?

Antonio Smith is identical in size to DJ, both are 6'4" and 280-285 range. Antonio doesn't seem to have issues holding up against the run so Im not sure why you think DJ would have issues. DJ put up 29 reps at the combine which is a solid number, doesn't seem to lack strength. I believe he had 19 TFL last season as well.

As I mentioned previously, I like this guy and would be happy if we drafted (I'd be even happier if we traded back to pick up an extra 3rd and were still able to grab him) BUT there are other guys I'd like to grab as well.

As for him not starting, I believe we grabbed Okoye based on potential and need and passed on Willis because we had drafted Ryans the previous year and didn't need an ILB. Im not trying to equate DJ with Willis, just that I believe we should go BPA unless we are chocked full of talent at a position (not a problem we have LOL)

The thing I like about DJ is his versatility. I think he could take over for AS next season while still contributing this coming season.

Truth be told though, even if we re-sign Barwin, I view OLB as a serious position of need for us. Our pass rush last year outside of Watt was not good. I think Mercilus will be a player, but if we move Reed inside (which I think is a great idea) we need to add players to the OLB rotation. If the Cushing injury showed us anything this year is that quality depth at primary positions is quite important.

A guy I'd seriously consider at 27 or with a trade back to the top of the 2nd is Jamie Collins. He's ultra explosive and very versatile (he's a former DB), being able to help inside as well as outside. His team was horrible last year otherwise he'd definitely be considered in the top 32 prospects, shoot he's heading that way now. i was hoping he'd be our 2nd round pick but I don't think he'll be there now.

thunderkyss
03-04-2013, 10:26 AM
Truth be told though, even if we re-sign Barwin, I view OLB as a serious position of need for us. Our pass rush last year outside of Watt was not good. I think Mercilus will be a player, but if we move Reed inside (which I think is a great idea) we need to add players to the OLB rotation. If the Cushing injury showed us anything this year is that quality depth at primary positions is quite important.


I completely agree with this. I think Reed would do really well at ILB & if Cushing has to miss a game or two I like Reed taking his spot better than our other options.

Moving Brooks to ILB also allows Braman to get on the field & any other potential pass rusher we may pick up in the 3rd, 4th, or later.

mussop
03-04-2013, 12:12 PM
Good point. Mercilus was probably drafted to start in 2013. Antonio Smith could be gone in 2014 (though he could get an extension this offseason, as well.) If so, the Texans will need a replacement, so why not be it with a 2nd year guy with some snaps under his belt?

Because if this team is going to take the next step we need to fill our weak spots early. WR, NT, ILB, NB, and if we lose Quin S. And if se lose barwin you can throw OLB in there. and there is no scenerio were DJ is BPA at 27. At least not IMO.

Again, people are ignoring game tape putting this guy in the first round based on his performance in one on one drills and 1 game (senior bowl).

Also yes he is the same size as Smith. He is no where as good as Smith. It's silly to compare the two. If we are going to use our first round pick on potential, lets draft Hunt. He would actually be a better comparison to Okoaya(sp?).

I don't want either that early. By the way, surely we learned our lesson when we drafted for potential with the Okoya pick. :rake:

CloakNNNdagger
03-05-2013, 08:36 PM
Came across this piece that I don't believe has been posted. Good news. But I would take the status with a grain of salt............it's pretty easy to be "100 percent" when you're not playing football.:kitten:

Texans' Sharpton says he's 100 percent (http://www.csnhouston.com/football-houston-texans/talk/texans-sharpton-says-hes-100-percent)

steelbtexan
03-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Antonio Smith is identical in size to DJ, both are 6'4" and 280-285 range. Antonio doesn't seem to have issues holding up against the run so Im not sure why you think DJ would have issues. DJ put up 29 reps at the combine which is a solid number, doesn't seem to lack strength. I believe he had 19 TFL last season as well.

As I mentioned previously, I like this guy and would be happy if we drafted (I'd be even happier if we traded back to pick up an extra 3rd and were still able to grab him) BUT there are other guys I'd like to grab as well.

As for him not starting, I believe we grabbed Okoye based on potential and need and passed on Willis because we had drafted Ryans the previous year and didn't need an ILB. Im not trying to equate DJ with Willis, just that I believe we should go BPA unless we are chocked full of talent at a position (not a problem we have LOL)

The thing I like about DJ is his versatility. I think he could take over for AS next season while still contributing this coming season.

Truth be told though, even if we re-sign Barwin, I view OLB as a serious position of need for us. Our pass rush last year outside of Watt was not good. I think Mercilus will be a player, but if we move Reed inside (which I think is a great idea) we need to add players to the OLB rotation. If the Cushing injury showed us anything this year is that quality depth at primary positions is quite important.

A guy I'd seriously consider at 27 or with a trade back to the top of the 2nd is Jamie Collins. He's ultra explosive and very versatile (he's a former DB), being able to help inside as well as outside. His team was horrible last year otherwise he'd definitely be considered in the top 32 prospects, shoot he's heading that way now. i was hoping he'd be our 2nd round pick but I don't think he'll be there now.

^^^^
This

I really like Collins too, if Brandon Williams isn't there in the 2nd Collins would be a great pick. Collins=great talent/untapped potential.

jukhan
03-14-2013, 06:06 PM
Now that Barwin is gone im guessing that Brooks stays at olb?

texanhead08
03-14-2013, 06:31 PM
Now that Barwin is gone im guessing that Brooks stays at olb?

I don't think we can afford to move him now. We need to draft back a OLB AND ILB in this draft.

Playoffs
03-14-2013, 06:51 PM
Gotta look to sign an ILB? Any cheap talent out there?

The1ApplePie
03-14-2013, 06:55 PM
Gotta look to sign an ILB? Any cheap talent out there?

Dan Connor got released by the Cowboys

dalemurphy
03-14-2013, 07:30 PM
Now that Barwin is gone im guessing that Brooks stays at olb?

Depends if we add OLB in free agent or ILB in free agency or early in the draft. Either way, I bet we seem him in both places in preseason and regular season in certain packages.

Insideop
03-14-2013, 09:45 PM
Depends if we add OLB in free agent or ILB in free agency or early in the draft. Either way, I bet we seem him in both places in preseason and regular season in certain packages.

This is kinda what I'm thinking too. My guess is, if they sign Ed Reed, they probably won't have much $$$ left over to get a FA ILB or OLB, so that leaves the Draft. I think they will try to draft both ILB and OLB within the first 3 rounds with the priority being on ILB. If they can draft, say, Minter in the 1st or maybe even 2nd round, then I think Brooks Reed will play less at ILB and more at his OLB position. If Minter is gone, and they have to draft a ILB later, who may not be as good, then Brooks might play more at ILB. Of course this is predicated on how they view Sharpton and what they expect from him, if anything. If Sharpton plays a lot this season, by some miracle, they may never use B.Reed as ILB.

Brisco_County
03-14-2013, 09:48 PM
Per John McClain via Rotoworld:

Brooks Reed is expected to stick at outside linebacker this season.
If the Texans had retained Connor Barwin, Reed would have kicked inside next to Brian Cushing. Now that Barwin is an Eagle, Reed is needed in a pass-rushing and edge-setting role. He's posted just 8.5 sacks through his first two NFL seasons, but has been a quality defender against the run.

PapaL
03-14-2013, 09:53 PM
Please don't draft Manti. Please. His stock is dropping and our need is rising. Please no. Please.

mussop
03-15-2013, 01:01 AM
Please don't draft Manti. Please. His stock is dropping and our need is rising. Please no. Please.

Not that I want him but what's so bad about him? Other than one bad game and something that has nothing to do with football?

Lucky
04-28-2013, 09:36 AM
Sound to me as if Reed is moving inside (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Reggie-Herring-OLB-draft-picks-give-Texans-flexibility/e07218df-55a4-4930-bf98-a6b2f718c275) after all.

"It does provide us with options to possibly move Brooks Reed inside,” Herring said. “Brooks Reed has played inside for us at times. We feel very comfortable with that move, if that is an option, to get our best 11 on the field.”

“That’s something I don’t want to get nailed down to, but right now I would feel extremely – and I know Wade feels the same way – extremely comfortable with moving Brooks Reed inside,” Herring said. “I’ve got highlight tape of him playing inside last year, and without hurting anybody’s feelings, he might be the second-best IL on campus right now.

“He’s got an IL body, he’s got instincts. He plays with his hair on fire. He can shock block. They tried to run lead plays on him, he sheds the guy in the hole and makes plays just like a great linebacker should. Unlimited possibilities there. I know he’s embraced the idea early on after the season. We discussed possible moves in the offseason that might predicate him having to be moved inside. He was excited about the move. He’s done it. He’s seen himself have success.”

Now I did hear Smith & Kubiak crawfishing (http://old.houstontexans.com/news/PodcastCentral2.asp?AUTO=Y&EID=2850) on Reed moving inside on a podcast. My feeling is that they trying to be hush-hush to protect a future move to obtain a vet OLB. I can't see them going into 2013 with strictly a kiddie corps of OLBs consisting of Mercilus, Braman, Montgomery, and Williams.

IDEXAN
04-28-2013, 09:50 AM
So what's Reed gonna do in nickels, sit on the bench ? Or maybe he joins the OLB/DE rotation in nickel/passing situations when Wade goes with just a single ILB (Cushing) ?

ATXtexanfan
04-28-2013, 09:56 AM
I hope they bring in a vet also.

Lucky
04-28-2013, 10:33 AM
So what's Reed gonna do in nickels, sit on the bench ? Or maybe he joins the OLB/DE rotation in nickel/passing situations when Wade goes with just a single ILB (Cushing) ?
I think that's exactly what happens. Reed and Mercilus outside and Watt on the inside. However, I just watched some of this bowl game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WyxRSufuU) with Chris Jones of Bowling Green, and this guy can penetrate. It wouldn't shock me if he found his way on the field on passing downs.

IDEXAN
04-28-2013, 10:57 AM
I think that's exactly what happens. Reed and Mercilus outside and Watt on the inside. However, I just watched some of this bowl game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WyxRSufuU) with Chris Jones of Bowling Green, and this guy can penetrate. It wouldn't shock me if he found his way on the field on passing downs.
Glad to hear that Jones looked good, he's an intriguing prospect. Get a chance to eyeball Quess in that same bowl game ?

Lucky
04-28-2013, 11:03 AM
Glad to hear that Jones looked good, he's an intriguing prospect. Get a chance to eyeball Quess in that same bowl game ?
Yes, San Jose mainly passed, so I didn't see a lot of run blocking. From what I did see, they ran a zone blocking system. Jones moved around and matched up with Quessenberry some. Jones got by him on some penetrations. The guy is just slippery. Maybe he greases his jersey, I don't know. But, he's hard to block.

LikeMike
04-28-2013, 11:39 AM
I don't know about that. At ILB we have Cushing, Sharpton and Dobbins - all at least capable when healthy, and Cuhsing will be in on all Nickel situations.

At OLb we have Mercilus, Brahman and two rookies (3d and 4th round). So a second year player, a ST player and two middle round rookies. Right now I'd say our ILB rotation looks stronger than our OLB rotation. I am pretty sure, that Reed will start the season at OLB. Only if one of our rookies step up big time will he move inside (or if we have injuries).

Rey
04-28-2013, 01:38 PM
I think reed stays at Olb. And I think he and merci will get first dibs at the pass rush on third and long, but I think some of the guys we just got will take some snaps away from them.

Corrosion
04-29-2013, 01:03 AM
I think reed stays at Olb. And I think he and merci will get first dibs at the pass rush on third and long, but I think some of the guys we just got will take some snaps away from them.

I just saw Smith and Kubiak on TV and they all but put to bed the notion that Reed will move inside.

Its an option but not likely at this point.

The Pencil Neck
04-29-2013, 01:43 AM
I just saw Smith and Kubiak on TV and they all but put to bed the notion that Reed will move inside.

Its an option but not likely at this point.

I don't know that Smith or Kubiak really have much of a say in the matter. They're buying the groceries but it's up to Wade (and Herring) to cook the dinner.

I'm not saying that Brooks is definitely going to move to ILB but I don't take what Smith and Kubiak said as absolute proof that he isn't.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-29-2013, 02:07 AM
I don't know that Smith or Kubiak really have much of a say in the matter. They're buying the groceries but it's up to Wade (and Herring) to cook the dinner.

I'm not saying that Brooks is definitely going to move to ILB but I don't take what Smith and Kubiak said as absolute proof that he isn't.

I think you are right. It is Wade's call. Wade's decides how dinner should tastes like and Herring cooks in accordance with Wade's recipe.

Rey
04-29-2013, 08:33 AM
I don't know that Smith or Kubiak really have much of a say in the matter. They're buying the groceries but it's up to Wade (and Herring) to cook the dinner.

I'm not saying that Brooks is definitely going to move to ILB but I don't take what Smith and Kubiak said as absolute proof that he isn't.

I haven't seen anything from wade that says reed is going to ILB. And herring didn't even say that he was. What herring said was that he feels comfortable with Reed at ilb. Herring even says "it's not something I want to get nailed down to".

The latest info we have on the situation is kubiak and smith basically saying absolutely not. At least at this point in time they are saying they have no plans on moving him inside. Now, we can say wade has the final say and that may be true, but I'd find it hard to believe that the head coach and gm would be saying that reed is the starting olb if wade is saying Reed is the new ILB.

And kicking Brooks reed outside on passing downs if he were to go to ilb doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Texans took OLB's/edge players for a reason. Our pass rush outside of Watt and sometimes Smith was pathetic. Especially from the edges. I dont think they are going to wait all year to see if the two starters can find their mojo. They really can't afford to do that with the teams we'll be playing. I think they are going to rotate these guys until they find who's going to consistently put pressure on the qb from the edge.

Blake
04-29-2013, 08:44 AM
Personally I want to keep Reed at OLB. Barwin is gone, Merc is still learning, Braman could get some snaps, and Sam and Trevardo are rookies.

drs23
04-29-2013, 11:05 AM
I haven't seen anything from wade that says reed is going to ILB. And herring didn't even say that he was. What herring said was that he feels comfortable with Reed at ilb. Herring even says "it's not something I want to get nailed down to".

That's exactly what he said and seemed pretty confident about it.

The latest info we have on the situation is kubiak and smith basically saying absolutely not. At least at this point in time they are saying they have no plans on moving him inside. Now, we can say wade has the final say and that may be true, but I'd find it hard to believe that the head coach and gm would be saying that reed is the starting olb if wade is saying Reed is the new ILB.

And kicking Brooks reed outside on passing downs if he were to go to ilb doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Texans took OLB's/edge players for a reason. Our pass rush outside of Watt and sometimes Smith was pathetic. Especially from the edges. I dont think they are going to wait all year to see if the two starters can find their mojo. They really can't afford to do that with the teams we'll be playing. I think they are going to rotate these guys until they find who's going to consistently put pressure on the qb from the edge.

Exactly. You could almost see the table move from Harris' boner when talking about Trevardo Williams' speed saying he's a little raw but has something that can't be taught:SPEED! He's that quick.

I can't wait till camp starts!

thunderkyss
04-29-2013, 06:04 PM
And kicking Brooks reed outside on passing downs if he were to go to ilb doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Texans took OLB's/edge players for a reason. Our pass rush outside of Watt and sometimes Smith was pathetic. Especially from the edges. I dont think they are going to wait all year to see if the two starters can find their mojo. They really can't afford to do that with the teams we'll be playing. I think they are going to rotate these guys until they find who's going to consistently put pressure on the qb from the edge.

Good points. Though I've mentioned Brooks rotating down on passing downs, you're right, it doesn't make sense.

But what you said here, about our pass rush, I agree 110%, Brooks was part of that. If we're not going to wait all season for our starting OLBs to find their mojo, then we're not going to wait two. Brooks (and Barwin) were fine against the run. Brooks was decent in pass coverage. Brooks wasn't worth a crap, imho, as a pass rusher.

He's a fine athlete & a second round pick, I think we need to put him somewhere he can be successful. He is not the pass rusher we need. Let's put him inside & see if he can make hay.



That's the way I see it anyway.

Rey
04-29-2013, 06:39 PM
Good points. Though I've mentioned Brooks rotating down on passing downs, you're right, it doesn't make sense.

But what you said here, about our pass rush, I agree 110%, Brooks was part of that. If we're not going to wait all season for our starting OLBs to find their mojo, then we're not going to wait two. Brooks (and Barwin) were fine against the run. Brooks was decent in pass coverage. Brooks wasn't worth a crap, imho, as a pass rusher.

He's a fine athlete & a second round pick, I think we need to put him somewhere he can be successful. He is not the pass rusher we need. Let's put him inside & see if he can make hay.




That's the way I see it anyway.


I've actually warmed up to the idea of Brooks being an inside LB if it means getting someone that can rush the qb better out there on the edge. I actually dont mind reed at solb either because the other LB is the one that will get the most pass rush opportunities.

Herring himself said the two roles are different...which is something I think we mostly knew...

Personally I think they're still deciding what they want to do and will likely use campband pre season as part of that decision making process. I just want the best guys on the field doing what they do best.

The Pencil Neck
04-29-2013, 06:47 PM
The whole passrush thing was why I thought bouncing Reed inside made so much sense.

They're going to try Montgomery out at the SAM because they think he's got the size and strength to take on the TEs. And they're going to put Trevardo at the Will so he can just speed rush off the edge to his little heart's content.

If Reed doesn't kick inside, then both of these guys are back-ups who will come in as part of the rotation. And that's fine. Effectively, you've got Montgomery backing up Reed and Williams backing up Mercilus. So All the guys will probably be fresher. So I'm fine if that's how we're going to do it.

But if Montgomery steps up and can handle the Sam role, then you can kick Reed inside and you basically just drafted 2 starters with 1 pick. Assuming, of course, that Reed CAN kick inside.

Lucky
04-29-2013, 07:24 PM
The latest info we have on the situation is kubiak and smith basically saying absolutely not. At least at this point in time they are saying they have no plans on moving him inside. Now, we can say wade has the final say and that may be true, but I'd find it hard to believe that the head coach and gm would be saying that reed is the starting olb if wade is saying Reed is the new ILB.
It makes sense if they are still on the lookout for LBs on the market, post June 1st cuts. They don't want to tip their hand. If a suitable ILB becomes available, Reed probably does stay inside. If an OLB is out there, Reed could move inside. I think that's what they were referring to with options. But, something has to be done at ILB.

Cushing -coming off ACL surgery
Dobbins - career backup who ended 2012 on IR
Sharpton - ended 2 of his 3 seasons on IR
Cameron Collins - practice squader
Mike Mohamed - street free agent
Assorted UDFAs

That's it. That's not a LB corps ready to enter the 2013 season. Not for a contender. As far as I'm concerned, the Texans tipped their hand by not selecting an ILB (I thought they needed 2) in the draft. So Smith and Kubiak can be coy all they want. The facts are that everything points to Brooks Reed kicking inside.

76Texan
04-29-2013, 07:29 PM
History showed that Wade had moved guys from OLB to ILB and vice versa.

For me, I thought that Cushing's skill set can afford him to play both;
I feel the same way about Reed.
A guy like Sio Moore, who I coveted in the draft, played both inside and outside in college, in the same year, effectively.
There is no reason a pro can't do it.
Whatshisname who played under Wade, everywhere on the line, and was a HOF.

It's just a matter how Wade and the coaches want to go about it.

HOU-TEX
05-20-2013, 02:41 PM
Sounds like he worked at ILB. All depends on the rookies, I reckon

Nick Scurfield ‏@NickScurfield 13m
Brooks Reed practiced at ILB today. #Texans are taking a look at Sam Montgomery, Trevardo Williams and Bryan Braman at OLB

Lost some weight too

PDS ‏@PatDStat 10m
Brooks Reed is another player who looks like he shed some weight. 6-3, 256. Changed into a more lean version. #Texans

Mr teX
05-20-2013, 03:00 PM
I put this Reed to ILB thing out last year....i think its a good look to...while he wasn't great at OLB i think people are overstating how bad he was when all things are taken into consideration (injuries, 2nd year guy in new position etc..)

I think keeping him on the field in some capacity and seeing what these other kids can bring to the table has the potential to make us that much more explosive and versatile.

thunderkyss
05-20-2013, 03:03 PM
I put this Reed to ILB thing out last year....i think its a good look to...while he wasn't great at OLB i think people are overstating how bad he was when all things are taken into consideration (injuries, 2nd year guy in new position etc..)

I think keeping him on the field in some capacity and seeing what these other kids can bring to the table has the potential to make us that much more explosive and versatile.

I think Brooks can be a playmaker for us. Just not on the edges. I'd feel better with him taking inside snaps too, if we lose Cush for a game or two.

The Pencil Neck
05-20-2013, 04:24 PM
I haven't seen anything from wade that says reed is going to ILB. And herring didn't even say that he was. What herring said was that he feels comfortable with Reed at ilb. Herring even says "it's not something I want to get nailed down to".

The latest info we have on the situation is kubiak and smith basically saying absolutely not.

OTAs and he's taking reps at ILB. Williams and Montgomery are taking reps at OLB with the first and second teams.

Granted, this might just be to get Reed up-to-speed in case of emergency later but still...

wolf123
05-20-2013, 04:37 PM
I think he's a much better fit at ILB then on the edge. He reminds me of Brian cushing when we were first switching to a 3-4. Cushing wouldn't of look great at OLB either.

HOU-TEX
05-20-2013, 05:01 PM
Also appears Sharpton put in a full load. We'll see how long this lasts

PDS ‏@PatDStat 2h
Darryl Sharpton was a full go today at OTAs. Moved well without any issues. #Texans

thunderkyss
05-20-2013, 07:25 PM
I think he's a much better fit at ILB then on the edge. He reminds me of Brian cushing when we were first switching to a 3-4. Cushing wouldn't of look great at OLB either.

Cushing was making plays several times a game as a 4-3 SAM. The way our SAM plays outside of Watt as the 5-Tech, it shouldn't be very different.

Reed was alright, but he's done nothing to remind me of Brian Cushing.

badboy
05-21-2013, 05:19 PM
Cushing was making plays several times a game as a 4-3 SAM. The way our SAM plays outside of Watt as the 5-Tech, it shouldn't be very different.

Reed was alright, but he's done nothing to remind me of Brian Cushing.

Good news is he doesn't have to be Cushing or even near him to be successful. He (or anyone) has only to be better than last year.

drs23
05-21-2013, 06:41 PM
Good news is he doesn't have to be Cushing or even near him to be successful. He (or anyone) has only to be better than last year.

I'll go on record as saying he will be better than ANYONE from last season. I think Brooks will put forth the on field/classroom effort and study to exceed at the ILB position.

Is it September yet??

EVOLVIST
07-02-2013, 08:45 PM
Well, according to Brian Crushing today at my son's football camp, he said he couldn't see Reed playing inside because the two draft picks are very "young." Not "raw," but "young" which I take that to mean simply not ready and that Sharpton will play next to Cush

I know Cush is not a coach, but where I was sitting it was a very innocent question that Cush elaborated on with what sounded like a strong opinion.

Playoffs
07-23-2013, 01:55 PM
Houston Texans ‏@HoustonTexans
I think I'll be staying at outside. If at some point in the season they move me, I have no problem contributing at middle. -@Brooksreed58

The depth at middle was a bit of a mystery at OTAs, so I think they put me there as a safety measure. -@Brooksreed58 #TexansRadio

Rey
07-23-2013, 02:38 PM
So Smith and Kubiak can be coy all they want. The facts are that everything points to Brooks Reed kicking inside.

There's been several people come out and say Reed is staying outside.

Reed himself, Merciless, Kubiak, Rick Smith....


I suppose now that's good enough evidence for you?

Number19
07-23-2013, 06:41 PM
But who do we have at ILB? Cushing, Dobbins & Sharpton.

This maybe should be another thread, but given that Sharpton stays healthy, are you comfortable with him playing the strongside ILB? Can he do the job?

He's undersized - and he's incredibly slow. 300 pound Earl Mitchell is as fast straight-away as Sharpton ( 4.81 40; 2.74 20 & 1.58 10 ) and his shuttle and 3-cone are not much better than 287 pound Jarid Crick.

I think he's serviceable as a back-up, but IMO he's a liability as a starter. The one thing he has going for himself is that he's been in the system for 3 years.

And this leads into the alternative. Can you imagine a strong side of Branan, Watt and Reed. Despite some inevitable rough edges, with his 4.6 speed, all Branan would need to excel at is protecting the outside and to turn the runner back into Watt and Reed, who also has 4.6 speed. With Watt demanding double team's, our OLB is going to be one-on-one with either the TE or the FB. If our OLB is double teamed, this means Reed would go unblocked.

Watt, Reed & Branan would be outstanding. I'm not so certain it would be as good with Sharpton in at ILB.

thunderkyss
07-23-2013, 06:58 PM
This maybe should be another thread, but given that Sharpton stays healthy, are you comfortable with him playing the strongside ILB? Can he do the job?

He's undersized - and he's incredibly slow. 300 pound Earl Mitchell is as fast straight-away as Sharpton ( 4.81 40; 2.74 20 & 1.58 10 ) and his shuttle and 3-cone are not much better than 287 pound Jarid Crick.


Watching him on the field, he plays a lot faster than those numbers. I'm very comfortable with Sharpton next to Cushing.


Watt, Reed & Branan would be outstanding. I'm not so certain it would be as good with Sharpton in at OLB.

I don't want to see Sharpton at OLB either.