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View Full Version : How does the playbook change with a more mobile quarterback?


Bulls on Parade
01-26-2013, 02:34 PM
If the Houston Texans had a young mobile quarterback like Robert Griffin III, Colin Kaepernick or Cam Newton, how would Gary Kubiak utilize them into his offensive system? Would we be able to run a variation of the Pistol Offense like the Redskins do? The Redskins run the same offense as we do except they throw in a few extra wrinkles to better suit their athletic quarterback.

Let's just say the Houston Texans are lucky enough to draft Johnny Manziel from Texas A&M in a few years (Johnny Football is the type of mobile quarterback I'm talking about), would his impact and leadership skills be enough to save Gary Kubiak's job? How can we play a more exciting brand of offensive football than the same boring and predictable offense we see week after week with slow-footed Matt Schaub under center?

It seems like Kubiak is tied down to this "sink or swim" mentality with Matt Schaub and rightfully so. He brought him in here but that was back before the 2007 season started. Six years later and it's almost time for us to be looking for our next savior at the position. Which in today's game will likely have to be somebody who can not only pass in the pocket but have the ability to run for big yardage as well. Today's young quarterback has to have the threat of picking up a third-down conversion with his legs, adding that extra element of surprise that opposing defenses have to game plan for. Even the best pass rushers struggle to stop an athletic quarterback who's a threat to run.

It's sort of scary to think the Indianapolis Colts have Andrew Luck situated in place for the next decade and we're not quite as lucky at the moment. And mind you, Luck is very much a mobile quarterback even if he's viewed as a pocket passer. At the NFL combine, Luck posted some incredible stats that were on par with both Cam Newton and Robert Griffin III.

Now granted, if we're lucky enough to draft Johnny Manziel in a few years, trading up for him and not necessarily being awful enough to pick number one overall, that can instantly change our franchise outlook. But right now we don't have a quarterback of the future. Schaub is aging and Yates isn't good enough to lead us into the next decade. I don't think Case Keenum is a future NFL starter either. At best, I see a career third-stringer in Keenum. Good local kid who the Texans should always keep as a third-string, league minimum paid QB but nothing more.

Without a long-term quarterback, I don't see Gary Kubiak staying our head coach for much longer. At least not past 2016 if he's unable to snag a franchise quarterback during the next three drafts.

powda
01-26-2013, 02:55 PM
You mean a boot leg / play action fake that forces backside contain and threatens a 3rd and 1 scramble by the qb with a chance for success? You mean threatening the defense north and south instead of just east and west with any other qb who would surely have a stronger arm? Blasphemy!

76Texan
01-26-2013, 03:00 PM
Brown slot left, sprint right. The catch. Montana to Dwight Clark.

VTexan
01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
I may be a homer but i'm still a little butthurt that we took Tj Yates over Tyrod Taylor.

infantrycak
01-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Almost none. Kubiak has worked with three much more mobile QB's - Young, Elway and Plummer. Unless by mobile you mean running then the playbook wouldn't change much only the outcome of some plays.

krocket
01-26-2013, 05:57 PM
Schaub's problem is not only slow feet. He just seems unable to will his team to victory like other elite quarterbacks. The other top QB's (Brady, the Mannings, et al) aren't fast of foot either. They win consistently and don't crumble under pressure as Schaub did in the last five games of the year. I predicted two or three years ago that Schaub would never take us to the promised land and I stand by that prediction.

dream_team
01-26-2013, 07:11 PM
Schaub's problem is not only slow feet. He just seems unable to will his team to victory like other elite quarterbacks. The other top QB's (Brady, the Mannings, et al) aren't fast of foot either. They win consistently and don't crumble under pressure as Schaub did in the last five games of the year. I predicted two or three years ago that Schaub would never take us to the promised land and I stand by that prediction.

This belongs in the other 15 "Schaub Sucks" threads.

Playoffs
01-26-2013, 07:21 PM
Pistol formations,
Read options,
Big hits on your QB,
Reconstructive surgery,
...
..
.

Pocket passer.

htownfan32
01-26-2013, 07:23 PM
Which is why I believe Manziel would be wasted in our system... though while we're on the topic of athletic QBs EJ Manuel caught my eye at the senior bowl. It definitely looked like he stepped it up a notch.

powda
01-26-2013, 07:54 PM
Pistol formations,
Read options,
Big hits on your QB,
Reconstructive surgery,
...
..
.

Pocket passer.

I dont think anyones asking for the next mike vick. I'd be thrilled with a qb who can pass down field competently and runs a 40 time less then a decade.

Hervoyel
01-26-2013, 09:36 PM
I don't believe it's even necessary to go overhaul the offense to somehow get the QB running every other down. I just think that having a QB who can realistically pull it down and take off, and does every now and then when the opportunity presents itself will by itself change the way the offense is defended and in that way create more opportunities for the offense. I know that when Matt is flushed out of the pocket he's going to throw it away. Matt knows he's going to throw it away and Gary knows he's going to throw it away. Every damn lineman on our offense knows it too and they know that if they don't hold then the play is D.O.A. You know the defenses know it because the good ones have become adept at snuffing out our drives by doing it.

Don't try and find Michael Vick II but find someone who can rip off a decent run when the defense has everyone covered but screws up containment on you. Make them pay for it in yards and first downs and the way they defend our offense will change.

Matt isn't going to do that and even if he could I don't know if Gary would even encourage it. I just don't know. When his players screw up Gary's the first guy to say "He was trying to make a play" and he sure doesn't sound all that mad at them for trying but at the same time Matt throws that ball away so fast now that it almost feels like it has been drilled into his head not to get hurt, not to turn the ball over. He throws it away on reflex now and to me that looks like he's following orders.

I always go back in my mind to that Oakland game and Matt not trying to run the ball in to win the game. Yes, it's entirely questionable whether he'd have even gotten there. I know that. At the same time I remember how he wasn't about to even try on that play. The guy was rooted to the damned ground. Now was that because he wasn't capable of making it and he knew it or was it because trying to go get it was outside the box for him in that situation?

I want the Texans to put a QB on the field who can take advantage of an opening like that and who is allowed to try when he thinks he can make a play. Matt can't run worth a damn and Gary seems to know it. That's tough to cover up for an entire season.

dtran04
01-26-2013, 09:59 PM
A couple years ago, I distinctly remember Kubiak encouraging Schaub to run for more first downs. It was at the beginning of the year.

Obviously, it's not in Schaub's makeup.

thunderkyss
01-26-2013, 10:11 PM
If the Houston Texans had a young mobile quarterback like Robert Griffin III, Colin Kaepernick or Cam Newton, how would Gary Kubiak utilize them into his offensive system? Would we be able to run a variation of the Pistol Offense like the Redskins do? The Redskins run the same offense as we do except they throw in a few extra wrinkles to better suit their athletic quarterback.

Let's just say the Houston Texans are lucky enough to draft Johnny Manziel from Texas A&M in a few years (Johnny Football is the type of mobile quarterback I'm talking about), would his impact and leadership skills be enough to save Gary Kubiak's job?

Wow..... you're all over the place, I don't think you know what you are asking for. Johnny Football has had an amazing season, still a little early to put him in the same category as RG3, Kaepernick, & Newton. Those guys are among the elite College QBs of our time & have accomplished quite a bit at that level. Manziel has the opportunity to accomplish as much in his career, and he's off to a good start. But odds are against him having such a college career, much less be successful in the NFL.

& I think you're tipping your hand a little when you say, "if we're lucky enough."

Anyway, it is not unusual for an "athletic" QB to have a "successful" rookie season. We saw Vince Young record several wins, but fail to follow up his sophomore season & crack under pressure.

Cam Newton threw for darn near 4,000 yards but couldn't win more than 7 games.

Michael Vick earned $100M a year removed from prison & followed it up with one of the worst years ever by a QB.

The league will figure him out. 1 guy can't beat 53.

Tweaking an offense is about compensating for a QBs mental shortcomings. They're not up to speed, they don't know/understand NFL defenses, & they don't have a feel for the 11 guys (like Ed Reed) on the other side of the ball.

They will not be asking RG3 to run the ball as often as he is now 3 years from now. If he can't produce at that time without running, he'll be out of the NFL in 6.

However, RG3, Kaepernick, Wilson, and to a lesser extent, Andrew Luck appear to have what it takes to be successful from the pocket. They need to work on being able to produce from the pocket at a high level, like Matt Schaub.

CretorFrigg
01-26-2013, 11:23 PM
However, RG3, Kaepernick, Wilson, and to a lesser extent, Andrew Luck appear to have what it takes to be successful from the pocket. They need to work on being able to produce from the pocket at a high level, like Matt Schaub.

Can't tell if a joke or not...

Hervoyel
01-26-2013, 11:36 PM
Can't tell if a joke or not...


Definitely one of those moments when I read it.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii630/Jay_Bucket99/271c5347.jpg

thunderkyss
01-27-2013, 12:15 AM
Can't tell if a joke or not...

Are you saying Matt has never produced at a high level?

The Zone Read & the Pistol offense isn't the future of the NFL.

ArlingtonTexan
01-27-2013, 12:38 AM
Actually, Schuab in the Denver/Kubiak system is the guy who does not fit. With all of the bootlegs, rolls and play action a quicker QB with at least average mobility is the norm. The Denver system comes straight from the 80s 49ers with Montana, Young, Elway, Plummer. Even guys like cutler and Greise were at least average runners.

Link to how direct Shanny/kubes are to bill walsh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_tree

chicagotexan2
01-27-2013, 09:45 AM
I'd love to have a qb that could at the very least extend a play after the D gets thru the OL. Schaub is the only player I can remember that looks like he runs faster going backwards than forwards. Of course even on those rare occasion where he manages to wobble backwards far enough all he does is throw the ball away instead of drawing the defense forward and finding a receiver. That probably diesnt change the playbook but adds a dimension that the offense should have and which as we've seen would have helped.

amazing80
01-27-2013, 02:55 PM
I think the play book is fine and can stay as is, its the execution of the plays being called that gets an added dimension. You have to account for a qb who can scramble for positive yards and can out run dline men. Especially with our naked boot, that would be deadly if a qb took of with corners and safeties having their backs turned

Playoffs
01-27-2013, 03:14 PM
I dont think anyones asking for the next mike vick. I'd be thrilled with a qb who can pass down field competently and runs a 40 time less then a decade.

Yep. Schaub needs a bigger arm, not faster feet imo. (I hope his foot is stable, though.)

AFC guys were Peyton, Brady, Flacco. No speedsters there.

Uncle Rico
01-27-2013, 09:38 PM
it would be nice to run a naked boot again. maybe even keep the defense off balance with the chance of a QB run. :sigh:

nut
01-27-2013, 10:02 PM
I don't know if it qualifies for changing the playbook, but pretty much any quarterback, mobile or not, would have more arm strength than the present guy and could throw a deep ball whether in the pocket or not. This would definitely give us more plays.

MEGA SWATT
01-27-2013, 10:23 PM
Vick

BullNation4Life
01-27-2013, 11:06 PM
You don't need a QB like RG3,Wilson, Newton or any QB that can "run" All you need is a QB that can extend plays with his feet. He doesn't have to run a 4.4 40, just be able to move around and if everybody is covered, be able to get a few yards, maybe even a 1st down...

If you had a QB like that, this system would be extremely deadly. I think that is why the bootleg did not work like use to because other teams know Schaub isn't fast enough to get to the edge and run, he will just throw it away. Notice this year how many less naked boots Schaub ran this year compared to last few years?

Texecutioner
01-27-2013, 11:37 PM
I don't think it would change at all considering who the HC is. Kubiak is as stubborn as nails. The guy believes in his system and doesn't revert from it for anything.

powda
01-28-2013, 09:28 PM
How often have we seen plays die and schaub throws the ball away? If just half those went for some kinda gain by a qb scramble, we'd be a force to be reckoned with. As tex said though, kubiak is to damn stubborn. I will be livid on draft weekend if we dont select a qb in the 3rd round or earlier.

Texecutioner
01-28-2013, 10:49 PM
How often have we seen plays die and schaub throws the ball away? If just half those went for some kinda gain by a qb scramble, we'd be a force to be reckoned with. As tex said though, kubiak is to damn stubborn. I will be livid on draft weekend if we dont select a qb in the 3rd round or earlier.

The Texans seem to go BPA every year almost, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if we didn't draft a QB. Hope we do as long as it is a guy with real potential. Don't want some Yates type of guy this time around.

infantrycak
01-28-2013, 11:03 PM
The Texans seem to go BPA every year almost, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if we didn't draft a QB. Hope we do as long as it is a guy with real potential. Don't want some Yates type of guy this time around.

This. I want to see a real effort or nothing at all. I don't want to see some throw away pick. If you think you are going to get the next Colin Kaepernick then sure take him. But don't just buy into some 6th round pick is going to be the next Tom Brady.

BullNation4Life
01-29-2013, 11:37 AM
This. I want to see a real effort or nothing at all. I don't want to see some throw away pick. If you think you are going to get the next Colin Kaepernick then sure take him. But don't just buy into some 6th round pick is going to be the next Tom Brady.

problem is the Texans are thinking they have 99 problems but QB ain't 1 of them...The O-line can be fixed, lack of LB depth can be fixed, Secondary help can be fixed, however...

a QB that is gun shy with little to no arm strength can't be fixed, and the Texans brass cannot see that. Until they do, until Gary does, they can draft all the Kaepernick's they want, he won't see the field until Kubiak man's up and makes the change and considering Schaub was "his guy", I don't see that happening...

Dread-Head
01-29-2013, 03:35 PM
:thinking: Maybe a couple of these :trophy::dread::trophy: in our future?

Big Lou
01-29-2013, 04:17 PM
Schaub picked up 11 yards on a scramble in the Pro Bowl.

When he knows the other team won't lay him out, he thinks he's RG3. LOL

El Tejano
01-30-2013, 11:50 AM
In 2010 I mentioned that a lot of our close games that we lost could've been won by our offense staying on the field if we only had a QB that would see nothing open and run for the first down on 2nd and 3 or 3 and 5 etc...

All I got in response to that was "I don't want my QB being exposed to injury" or "Running is just not Matt Schaub's game". Here we are two years later complaining how our QB is not mobile enough.

Surreal McCoy
01-30-2013, 12:53 PM
lol at everyone moaning about forcing the oppo D to be honest and have some 'backside contain' when Arian was ripping chunks out them where?

Oh my days. :smiliepalm:

Norg
01-30-2013, 03:00 PM
thats whats so excitng about this SB is Mobile pistol QB vs a More a traditonal QB in flacco

if flacco wins then this hole flavor of the year of Mobile QB will be over and everyone will say Mobile QB's cant win the SB so whats the point