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View Full Version : Poor DeMeco Ryans PHI may change to 3-4 defense


srrono
01-24-2013, 04:50 PM
There is a good chance the Eagles switch over to a 3-4 under Chip Kelly ó a sizable project in what will turn out to be a rather extensive remodeling effort this offseason, Tim McManus of Phillymag.com.

Kelly hasnít publicly committed to the transition, and perhaps it would be best to officially have a defensive coordinator in place before doing so. But there is a sense that he would like to make the move.

According to Howie Roseman, the teamís preparations for such a change predate Kelly coming on board.

Full story
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/32421/-Good-chance--Eagles-transition-to-the-3-4-defense/Default.aspx

Poor DeMeco Ryans

The Redzone ‏@TheRedzoneorg
'Good chance' Eagles transition to the 3-4 defense http://tinyurl.com/ae9yjj3 #NFL #Eagles

ESAD2-14
01-24-2013, 06:26 PM
There is a good chance the Eagles switch over to a 3-4 under Chip Kelly ó a sizable project in what will turn out to be a rather extensive remodeling effort this offseason, Tim McManus of Phillymag.com.

Kelly hasnít publicly committed to the transition, and perhaps it would be best to officially have a defensive coordinator in place before doing so. But there is a sense that he would like to make the move.

According to Howie Roseman, the teamís preparations for such a change predate Kelly coming on board.

Full story
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/32421/-Good-chance--Eagles-transition-to-the-3-4-defense/Default.aspx

Poor DeMeco Ryans

The Redzone ‏@TheRedzoneorg
'Good chance' Eagles transition to the 3-4 defense http://tinyurl.com/ae9yjj3 #NFL #Eagles

3-4 or 4-3 I'd take Demeco in either one of those defenses, dude plays hard and smart.

Big Lou
01-24-2013, 06:39 PM
3-4 or 4-3 I'd take Demeco in either one of those defenses, dude plays hard and smart.

Maybe we could trade to get him back. We need some depth at ILB, LOL!

Honoring Earl 34
01-24-2013, 06:45 PM
I bet he drafts Dion Jordan .

Rey
01-24-2013, 07:18 PM
I bet he drafts Dion Jordan .

I hadn't thought about that...

I hope not...

dc_txtech
01-24-2013, 07:27 PM
I would love to have DeMeco back at a smaller contract. Dude is 2 years removed from a serious injury and still young. I didn't follow Philly too closely but judging by the numbers he had a decent season.

Bring back DeMeco!

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 08:11 PM
3-4 or 4-3 I'd take Demeco in either one of those defenses, dude plays hard and smart.


I honestly do not believe scheme was the issue w/ DeMeco here in Houston. DeMeco is a very good ILB regardless. The problem was the price tag. Playing 2 downs on a regular basis did not warrant the amount of money Ryans was making. Remove that one aspect from the equation & I think its safe to say Ryans was a much better option at ILB despite the silliness that Herring & Wade spewed in the preseason in favor of James. Ryans was deeply missed & James did nothing to make us forget about him. Lower the price & bring him home is what I say.

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2013, 08:23 PM
If you watched Philly's 4-3 scheme, it funneled plays into Demeco in the middle, leading to his tackle number. He had one sack, and the one INT was thrown right to him. He did not show much in lateral movement, certainly not side to side. A 3-4 will not be kind to him.

Corrosion
01-24-2013, 08:47 PM
Maybe we could trade to get him back. We need some depth at ILB, LOL!

We need an ILB with cover skills .... thats far from his strong suit. Honestly , Id like to see them plug a "big safety" in at ILB since they run so many three safety snaps as it is and teams dont just pass in passing situations ... That player would have to tackle well and be able to defend TE's & RB's in the passing game .... Hell , plug Quin in that role and pick up another safety to play alongside Manning on the back end.

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 08:53 PM
If you watched Philly's 4-3 scheme, it funneled plays into Demeco in the middle, leading to his tackle number. He had one sack, and the one INT was thrown right to him. He did not show much in lateral movement, certainly not side to side. A 3-4 will not be kind to him.

As if James thrived. We all heard the silliness Herring & Wade had to say about James & his play was hardly what was advertised by Wade & co. Ryans play at the end of the 2011 season was picking up & he was playing well. Kubiak made that claim himself following the season & that was despite Ryans playing in the unkind 3-4. I would take Ryans over James any day & twice on Sunday regardless of the scheme. He may have had only 1 sack, but you have to have your number called to get a sack. I doubt it was a free for all for him & he just didn't make the play.

The running plays funneled towrads James as well. Of course they were designed to run up the middle & he was either swallowed up by a block or missed the tackle.

Rey
01-24-2013, 09:03 PM
IMHO, bradie would have been ok has Cushing not gotten hurt.

We all knew he wasn't an everydown, THE man type of MLB.

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 09:08 PM
We need an ILB with cover skills .... thats far from his strong suit. Honestly , Id like to see them plug a "big safety" in at ILB since they run so many three safety snaps as it is and teams dont just pass in passing situations ... That player would have to tackle well and be able to defend TE's & RB's in the passing game .... Hell , plug Quin in that role and pick up another safety to play alongside Manning on the back end.

I'm pretty sure this a formation that they already use. That's why we saw Demps & Keo on the field w/ Quin & Manning.

The knock on Ryans was he made too much for being a 2 down LB. That wouldn't change. Cushing is the LB out there on passing downs regardless of who lines up next to him. So coverage is not something Ryans nor James would be asked to do w/ a healthy Cushing in the mix. That being said, Ryans is the better player compared to James & that's why I wouldn't mind having him back IF his salary was lowered to reflect his reduced role. It's unlikely to happen, but when it was all said & done, the Texans trading Ryans & acquiring James did not make this team better as Wade & Herring foolishly tried to make us believe. Hopefully a good rookie is brought in to start immediately. Hopefully its a player who can minimize the negative impact if Cushing were to be lost again. The ILB position & its depth was exposed once Cushing was out imo.

Corrosion
01-24-2013, 09:15 PM
I'm pretty sure this a formation that they already use. That's why we saw Demps & Keo on the field w/ Quin & Manning.

.

Thats what I said above , they already run it a considerable amount of the time .... and rather than use that personel package only on passing downs , with a "Big Safety" playing the ILB spot , you could run it as your base back end .... pending that hybrid S/ILB can cover and play the run.

False Start
01-24-2013, 09:33 PM
I would take him back, in a heartbeat. Dude is a leader, and plays his ass off every game. It probably aint happenin though, so .... :shrug:

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 09:36 PM
Thats what I said above , they already run it a considerable amount of the time .... and rather than use that personel package only on passing downs , with a "Big Safety" playing the ILB spot , you could run it as your base back end .... pending that hybrid S/ILB can cover and play the run.

I'm not sure that would work because now you are saying they should play w/ basically an undersized LB. Sure he may have the height but not the weight or strength to fend off blockers. The concept sounds good, but the Texans just need another young nimble ILB w/ speed. They exist, its just about finding the right one imo. Plus, as I said earlier Cushing is that player. Whoever starts next to him would not be in coverage on obvious passing downs. My whole point was Ryans is better then James & if Ryans salary had become an issue I 100% believe he would still be a Texan.

JimBaker488
01-24-2013, 10:16 PM
Maybe he'll follow old coach to Chiefs, where Reid may convert their 3-4 to the
4-3 he ran in Philly ?

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2013, 10:17 PM
As if James thrived. We all heard the silliness Herring & Wade had to say about James & his play was hardly what was advertised by Wade & co. Ryans play at the end of the 2011 season was picking up & he was playing well. Kubiak made that claim himself following the season & that was despite Ryans playing in the unkind 3-4. I would take Ryans over James any day & twice on Sunday regardless of the scheme. He may have had only 1 sack, but you have to have your number called to get a sack. I doubt it was a free for all for him & he just didn't make the play.

The running plays funneled towrads James as well. Of course they were designed to run up the middle & he was either swallowed up by a block or missed the tackle.

I don't remember bringing in any comparisons to James. Just pointing out Ryans obvious deficits.

tru80texan
01-25-2013, 12:05 AM
I don't remember bringing in any comparisons to James. Just pointing out Ryans obvious deficits.

You did not, but the comparison was warranted, imo, because James ultimately replaced Ryans & was suppose to be a better fit. I would beg to differ. The 3-4 specialist James seemed to be a step down. Considering Ryans was displaying improved health & thus improved production, by Kubiaks own admission, then I believe Ryans could've faired well in a 3-4 had he been given an opportunity that wasn't effected by his health & a shortened learning period in a new scheme. We will never know, but in the end it was not Ryans lack of lateral movement that ultimately got him traded.

Norg
01-25-2013, 12:20 AM
he will prob go to some ****ty team and be a big fish in a small pond

he will prob want to come back to the AFC so the ****test teams

Jags
bills
KC

Corrosion
01-25-2013, 12:44 AM
I'm not sure that would work because now you are saying they should play w/ basically an undersized LB. Sure he may have the height but not the weight or strength to fend off blockers. The concept sounds good, but the Texans just need another young nimble ILB w/ speed. They exist, its just about finding the right one imo. Plus, as I said earlier Cushing is that player. Whoever starts next to him would not be in coverage on obvious passing downs. My whole point was Ryans is better then James & if Ryans salary had become an issue I 100% believe he would still be a Texan.

Cushing's job was getting after the QB in many passing situiations ..... he didnt often drop into coverage. Whoever starts next to him has to be solid in coverage.

tru80texan
01-25-2013, 02:31 AM
Cushing's job was getting after the QB in many passing situiations ..... he didnt often drop into coverage. Whoever starts next to him has to be solid in coverage.

Cushing is the lone ILB on obvious passing downs. That's a known fact. He is the one that will be used in coverage. This is exactly the reason why the Texans felt they could not afford Ryans who was being removed on passing downs & thus being primarly a 2 down ILB. Guess who was left on the field in those obvious passing situations....Cushing. This was also the reason some believed there would little to no drop off going from Ryans to James because James would be a 2 down ILB. Once again, leaving Cushing in for passing downs & potentially in coverage.

In the base set, Cushing could get after the QB but it is known that he is the EVERY down ILB & that is because he is capable of & expected to play in coverage.

Grams
01-25-2013, 06:29 AM
Ryans on 2 downs was better than all the ones we had out there to replace him.

CloakNNNdagger
01-25-2013, 06:56 AM
You did not, but the comparison was warranted, imo, because James ultimately replaced Ryans & was suppose to be a better fit. I would beg to differ. The 3-4 specialist James seemed to be a step down. Considering Ryans was displaying improved health & thus improved production, by Kubiaks own admission, then I believe Ryans could've faired well in a 3-4 had he been given an opportunity that wasn't effected by his health & a shortened learning period in a new scheme. We will never know, but in the end it was not Ryans lack of lateral movement that ultimately got him traded.

Going from 54 tackles in 6 games (prior to injury) in 2010 to 64 tackles in 16 games in 2011 hardly displays improved health and improved production. With a 3-4, on 3rd down without 4 big dL in front of him, and with his lack of explosiveness to pass rush, and with his obvious loss of side-to-side coverage, his tackle numbers would decrease, and he would be exposed in all aspects of a 4 down ILB. If he were kept in 3 or 4 downs routinely, teams would know to how successfully game plan to those weaknesses. As for James, he was expected by Wade to be a player that could fill all those criteria to a decent extent. It didn't work out that way. The Texans, if cap allows, will still be looking for an ILB who can do a decent job of also covering to complement Cushing (unless James miraculously finds the "key" with an additional offseason in the system).

tru80texan
01-25-2013, 08:10 AM
Going from 54 tackles in 6 games (prior to injury) in 2010 to 64 tackles in 16 games in 2011 hardly displays improved health and improved production. With a 3-4, on 3rd down without 4 big dL in front of him, and with his lack of explosiveness to pass rush, and with his obvious loss of side-to-side coverage, his tackle numbers would decrease, and he would be exposed in all aspects of a 4 down ILB. If he were kept in 3 or 4 downs routinely, teams would know to how successfully game plan to those weaknesses. As for James, he was expected by Wade to be a player that could fill all those criteria to a decent extent. It didn't work out that way. The Texans, if cap allows, will still be looking for an ILB who can do a decent job of also covering to complement Cushing (unless James miraculously finds the "key" with an additional offseason in the system).

Comparing his 2010 to his 2011 stats is apples & oranges. Totally different scheme & responsibilities. In the 4-3 scheme, prior to injury, Ryans very rarely came off of the field. In the 3-4 scheme he was reduced to a lesser role which was obvious to all who watched & for those that didn't it was verified by Rick Smith, Kubiak, & Wade. Ryans was no longer on the field on obvious passing downs or passing formations as much. That is fact & is exactly the reasoning that was given when he wad traded. They could not afford to pay the type of money Ryans was earning to a player who essentially became a 2 down player. No big mystery considering it was stated by many multiple times. That being said, I think we can all agree that less opportunity could easily lead to less production. Thus your stats comparison is apples & oranges imo.

As far as his health, many acknowledged that Ryans was not 100% at the beginning of 2011, but as the season progressed so did his play & production. That seemed apparent to most & was acknowledged by Wade & Kubiak at seasons end. The improvement reference was not from season to season, it was from 2011 1st half of season to 2011 2nd half of season. So yes, that did display improved health & production DURING the 2011 season.

Concerning your scenario that 4 d-lineman would be needed in passing downs to protect Ryans, I once again politely disagree. 1st off, Ryans, nor James for that matter, were expected to be a 3 down LB. Plain & simple. Verified by the Texans coaching staff. 2nd, if he was on the field I think the scheme is a bit more complicated & could disguise who's rushing & who's not enough to prevent teams from focusing on 1 player100% of the time. Sure mismatches will be attempted but that goes w/out saying & a less then 100% DeMeco held his own while learning the system on the fly in 2011. Assuming that some how he would've gotten worse w/ increased knowledge of the system & being 100% healthy just seems silly to me. The guy returned to 100+ tackles & some how we are suppose to believe he would've been worthless in a 3-4 & all of his tackles were "funneled" to him w/ him making no plays on the edges. Okkkkk...

Once again, Ryans issue in Houston was the money he was making compared to his new role. No big secret & stated by many. I do agree the Texans are in need of an ILB that is possibly similar in skill set to Cushing to ensure versatility w/in the defense & make it more potent. Let's hope it happens because James is not the answer.

silvrhand
01-25-2013, 08:47 AM
http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/12/27/demeco-ryans-says-he-can-play-in-a-3-4/

Sounds like we should have gotten more than a 4th round draft pick...

This season with the Eagles, Ryans has played 99.7 percent of the snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. That has resulted in 146 tackles and 16 tackles for a loss, per the stats kept by the team. As Sheil has brought to light, no player in the Andy Reid era has posted more tackles for a loss in a season.

ensign_lee
01-25-2013, 08:56 AM
I want DeMeco back. :'(

Double Barrel
01-25-2013, 09:58 AM
He'll end up on the Ravens. :choke:

tru80texan
01-25-2013, 11:32 AM
http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/12/27/demeco-ryans-says-he-can-play-in-a-3-4/

Sounds like we should have gotten more than a 4th round draft pick...

Straight from the horses mouth. Good find & yes we should've gotten more, but what can you do when other teams know you are desperate. Something was better then nothing when you consider that's exactly what they got for Winston...nothing.

I want DeMeco back. :'(

I'm with you on that one.

thunderkyss
01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/12/27/demeco-ryans-says-he-can-play-in-a-3-4/

Sounds like we should have gotten more than a 4th round draft pick...
This season with the Eagles, Ryans has played 99.7 percent of the snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. That has resulted in 146 tackles and 16 tackles for a loss, per the stats kept by the team. As Sheil has brought to light, no player in the Andy Reid era has posted more tackles for a loss in a season.


Which makes me wonder why anyone thinks Ryans is going anywhere.

He's their Cushing. He will be the one that stays on the field, while the other guy will be the one replaced by a safety... actually, that guy would probably stay on as well, as most 3-4 teams don't remove their ILBs on passing downs. Most will go with a nickel, removing the NT. If they go to a dime then they'll take that other LB off the field, but again, most teams do not do that as often as we do.

Rey
01-25-2013, 12:29 PM
Which makes me wonder why anyone thinks Ryans is going anywhere.

He's their Cushing. He will be the one that stays on the field, while the other guy will be the one replaced by a safety... actually, that guy would probably stay on as well, as most 3-4 teams don't remove their ILBs on passing downs. Most will go with a nickel, removing the NT. If they go to a dime then they'll take that other LB off the field, but again, most teams do not do that as often as we do.

I doubt that.

The eagles took mychal kendricks last year in the top half of the 2nd round. He played Olb in their 43 but will most likely be an ilb in a 34. He's better in pass coverage than Demeco and I'd venture to say that he's their future at the MLB position.

He's a good player and I'd personally take him over every MLB I've seen in this upcoming draft. He's also really athletic and like I said good in pass coverage.

I'm not sold that Demeco would be their everydown guy in the middle. He might start off as that, but I think they'd try to get kendricks acclimated in that role.

Vinny
01-25-2013, 01:34 PM
http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/12/27/demeco-ryans-says-he-can-play-in-a-3-4/

This season with the Eagles, Ryans has played 99.7 percent of the snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. That has resulted in 146 tackles and 16 tackles for a loss, per the stats kept by the team. As Sheil has brought to light, no player in the Andy Reid era has posted more tackles for a loss in a season.
Sounds like we should have gotten more than a 4th round draft pick... He played well and now that he is fully recovered, neither Sharpton nor Bradie is the player he is. Neither close. Sharpton can cover better but is awful in the box (his most important duties) and Bradie is just running on pure fumes and doesn't have Ryans instinct. All that said, I'm hoping we bring in some young blood that can play better than Sharpton next season. Sharpton isn't the answer.