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amazing80
01-20-2013, 08:20 PM
To begin, this took HOURS to complete, and I did not proof read :spin: I hope you enjoy. If there are mistakes sorry, let me know and I will fix it. I tried to be realistic and also provide my input. I think this would be a GREAT off-season, but who knows. Anyway, post comments and provide your off-season mock.

First to deal with our free agents.

Sign these guys

Alan Ball - If we are going to re-sign ANY of the corners, I would re-sign him. Not only is he better at slot than McCain, but he is better as a special teamer. Brandon Harris has not shown enough to trust him in the slot full time, but he did show promise, so hopefully he can over come Ball at some point next season. Sign Ball to a 1 or 2 year deal for a low amount.

Bradie James - This one I struggle with, not because he is good, but because he could be good depth, I just don't think he would want to be here as a back up/special teams player. But Maybe we keep him anyway, one more season.

Connor Barwin - ONLY re-sign if it is cheap. He really took a step back and provided little as a pass rusher, but he really sealed the edge vs the run, very little runs came from the outside. Plus if he walks, we still need to fill the hole left at OLB, keeping him would be the cheapest (hopefully) and simplest. If he commands too much, prepare to draft a guy.

Glover Quin - He might actually be our first priority this off-season. He is a great run stuffing safety and very good in coverage vs TEs and Rbs, losing him only hurts us down the road against the Patriots. Don't over pay for a non play making safety, but know he is important to our defense. We just need to add a 3rd safety to prevent those deep passes against us.

Justin Forsett - Again, this depends on price, but I would try to retain him. Knowing I want to get rid of Tate, but knowing any rookie I bring in may take time to develop. Make him our number 2 for 1 or 2 seasons. He has the ability to step in as our starter if Foster misses some games.

Ryan Harris - I would offer pretty much the minimum to him. He knows our system, is younger, fresher and up to date on our playbook compared to Rashard Butler. The goal is to get a younger tackle to compete with Derek Newton. We will have 2 average back ups between Harris, Newton and a rookie.

Mister Alexander - He is an ERFA, offer him the minimum and he has to take it. Cheap for a guy who knows the system and is average hwen in the game.

Andrew Gardner - He is a RFA and I doubt he gets an offer, but again, I think its time to upgrade the depth and that means letting go of the useless guys. But I have a feeling he is brought back, so I am saying to re-sign him, even though I would not.

Let these guys walk

Rashard Butler - Isn't going to be a starter and we need to make plans to get a better RT while upgrading the depth all around.

Antione Caldwell - Same as Butler. The talent has surpassed him and the depth is already equally as good as he is.

James Casey - Its not that I do not want him back, but I think he may get a solid offer from another team (Patriots or someone trying to become them). I think a true FB with a better wr and a better blocking TE would suffice. We could try to be more creative by shifting OD or Graham to fb to cause mis matches.

Shaun Cody - He is older, and frankly not very good IMO. Time to move on.

Quintin Demps - Can we please move on from this disaster already. Im tired of watching him give up huge plays all the time because he is not disciplined enough to stay deep.

Tim Dobbins - Frankly Im ready to improve the depth at ILB, and it starts by getting rid of the bad players.

Keyaron Fox - Who the **** is this.

Shayne Graham - Im ready to see Bullock. This will greatly improve our average starting position allowed.

Donnie Jones - He was ok, but I feel younger guys with a more powerful leg would be better, plus cheaper and more long term.

Brice McCain - Its time to move on from this under sized over rated slot corner.

Jesse Nading - Can we please move on from him, he doesn't provide anything useful to this squad.

Stanford Routt - Did not show anything to deserve to come back, couldn't even beat out Harris.

Barrett Ruud - I would actually consider signing him to a cheap contract. He was ok in coverage, except for the Patriots, but that was Wades fault for assuming he could keep up with those guys. But ultimately I chose to let him walk.

After all these moves we have holes at WR, ILB, NT, S, RT and depth at corner, and along the oline, not to mention we need depth at DE and OLB plus another RB.

Free Agents I would consider if available

Wes Welker - The more I think about it, the more I think he becomes a free agent. Im not sure what he would command on the market, but if we can afford him, we should make a move. He would be an excellent upgrade to the slot and would be a valuable asset to Matt and our young wide outs. His personality would fit with our team as well. Others: Danny Amendola and Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, Louis Murphy, Steve Smith (Rams), Brandon Tate. (LOTS of potential slot guys for our team)

Victor Butler - With Kiffin coming in, there is a chance some guys are on their way out, he was a back up to Anthony Spencer and may not be re-signed if they shift to a 4-3. He could be a decent depth signing at OLB for us. Others: Quentin Groves, Aaron Maybin, Erik Walden, Chris Wilson.

Trade

Ben Tate - Detroit Lions trade a 5th round pick for Tate, even if Lions don't, pick a team in need of a rb and trade him.

NFL Draft

Round 1 - Cordarelle Patterson WR, a big speedy wide out with great hands. Nice route running and can shield defenders with his body. This play maker is EXACTLY what this offense needs and it is another big guy for the red zone. He will learn A LOT from Andre and will immediately help this offense.

Round 2 - Kawann Short NT, a fast one gap nose tackle. Explosive and very quick to diagnose plays. He is very disruptive and has room to bulk up more to get better at holding the POA. He should greatly help our pass rushing by collapsing the pocket.

Round 3 - Rick Wagner OT, an athletic OT that fills a need. He has experience at both LT and RT and could add depth if nothing else. I expect him to compete and split time immediately with Newton at RT. Doesn't hurt he is a converted TE nor does it hurt he is from Wisconsin, our favorite college :)

Round 3 - AJ Klein ILB, a play making ILB who is side line to side line. He will compete to start day 1 and can help make an impact on TEs and RBs, plus is athletic enough to help blitz from the middle allowing Cushing to do other things.

Round 4 - Cooper Taylor SS, A rangy safety who is smart, athletic and a great build. Had a GREAT shrine game week and game day and really helped his stock. A great combine will elevate him even hirer, hopefully we get a chance to grab him in the 4th. He has TONS of potential and will be a solid choice as a 3rd safety.

Round 5 - Zach Sudfeld TE, remember this name. He has gone through tons of injuries throughout his career at Nevada, but he is super athletic, great size and finally healthy. He put up good stats his senior year and has shown the ability to be a good blocker. A great combine should lift his stock.

Round 5 - David Quessenberry OG, a good sized guard who is pretty athletic. He will take some time getting use to the speed of the NFL but he is solid depth.

Round 6 - Mike James RB, a veteran back with low miles from the "U". Great one cut and go runner, great hands and good pass blocking skills. He would be a GREAT 3rd back and will push for back up duties come seasons end. I really like him.

Round 6 - Tyrann Mathieu CB, if there, why the heck not? Take a chance on a guy with big time ability, I doubt he will be here though.

Round 6 - Joe Vellano DE, a non stop DE from Maryland who dominated in 2011 and played well through injuries in 2012. A run stuffing, sack generator who will fit in nicely with Watt and Cushing as being a gym rat with 100% commitment to the team and film room. He will be a riser after the combine, watch.

Round 6 - Ryan Allen P, a big leg, good athlete and younger and cheaper than Jones. He had 12 plus punts of 55 yards or more and an uncanny ability to place the ball within the 20. 43.5 NET per punt. Back to back Ray Guy (best punter in CFB) winner, FIRST TIME EVER, don't miss out on this guy Rick Smith.

Round 7 - Braden Wilson FB, a solid runner but a big time blocker. I just want a FB here.

Qb - Matt Schaub, TJ Yates
RB - Arian Foster, Justin Forsett, Mike James
FB - Tyler Clutts, Braden Wilson
WR - Andre Johnson, Cordarrelle Patterson, Wes Welker, Devier Posey, Keyshawn Martin
TE - Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham, Zach Sudfeld
LT - Duane Brown, Rick Wagner, Andrew Gardner
OG - Wade Smith, Cody White
C - Chris Myers, Ben Jones
OG - Brandon Brooks, David Quessenberry
RT - Derek Newton, Ryan Harris

DE - Antonio Smith, Jared Crick
NT - Kawann Short, Earl Mitchell
DE - JJ Watt, Joe Vellano
OLB - Connor Barwin, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB - Brian Cushing, AJ Klein, Bradie James, Mister Alexander
OLB - Brooks Reed, Victor Butler
CB - JJo, Kareem Jackson, Alan Ball, Brandon Harris, Tyrann Mathieu, Roc CarMichael
SS - Daniel Manning, Cooper Taylor, Eddie Pheasant
FS - Glover Quin, Shiloh Keo

P - Ryan Allen
K - Randy Bullock

Lucky
01-20-2013, 09:24 PM
OLB - Connor Barwin, Bryan Braman

OLB - Brooks Reed, Victor Butler
What did you do with Mercilus?

amazing80
01-20-2013, 09:25 PM
What did you do with Mercilus?

:mariopalm:

edit thanks I added him

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 09:26 PM
Good lord 80, that's a novel

amazing80
01-20-2013, 09:30 PM
Good lord 80, that's a novel

Ha, whats funny is if someone else wrote this up, I wouldn't read it, hell I wrote it and didn't even read it :brando:

Rey
01-20-2013, 10:22 PM
I so don't see us signing we'd welker.

I don't even think hes a good fit in this offense.

skenney_11
01-20-2013, 10:31 PM
My mock off-season goes like this:
Resign:
-Quin
-Forsett
-Either James, Rudd, Alexander, or Dobbins
-Jones (can be cut in camo if we draft a P
-Cody on a close to min deal
-Ball (ST purposes)
-Casey
-Harris
Cuts/Trades:
-Walter
-Antonio Smith
-Wade Smith
-Tate to stl for 4th round pick
-O.D. to CHI for their 4th and 2014 4th
Free Agents:
-A top tier WR like Welker, Jennings, Bowe, and Wallace is out of the question. A guy like Amendola, Hartline, or Edelman could be had
-Melton, FB
-Jake Scott, G


Draft:
1. T. Williams, J. Hunter, T.Austin, WR
2. K. Long, OL
2. Trade our 3rd, Stl's 4th, and 2014 3rd to PHI for their 2nd round pick. M. Hunt, DE or K.Short if he's available
3. N. Johnson, ILB
4. S. Porter, OLB
4. N. Malone, slot CB
5. B. Ford, TE
5. M. Lattimore
6. R. Allen, P
6. J. Harris, S
7. M. Harris, RB

This off-season gives Houston a playmaker at WR, depth on the o-line and d-line, a young guy to play with Cush, and a great blocking FB to boost the run game.

Depth Chart:

QB: Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB: Foster, Forsett, Harris, Lattimore
FB: Melton
WR 1: AJ, Rookie, Jean, Posey
WR 2: FA, Martin
TE: Casey, Graham, Ford
LT: Brown, Harris
LG: Scott, Jones, Long
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Brooks, Jones, Long
RT: Newton, Harris, Long
DE: Watt, Jamison, Crick, (Hunt)
DT: Cody, (Short), Mitchell
OLB: Reed, Mercilus, Porter, Braham
ILB: Cush, Johnson, Sharpton, Dobbins
CB 1: Jjo, Ball
CB 2: Jackson, Harris, Malone
SS: Manning, Keo
FS: Quin, Harris
K: Bullock
P: Allen

amazing80
01-21-2013, 07:07 AM
I so don't see us signing we'd welker.

I don't even think hes a good fit in this offense.

I offered others as a good choice. But to say Welker doesn't fit this offense is crazy. He would be an excellent slot guy.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 07:57 AM
I offered others as a good choice. But to say Welker doesn't fit this offense is crazy. He would be an excellent slot guy.

I agree..... I think Welker would be ridiculous in this offense. But I'm really hoping Martin makes the jump that most receivers make from year 1 to year 2. I like the Patterson pick. Hate the Tate trade though. Other than that I'd be satisfied with that offseason.

If we're looking for a slot guy though Swope with one of our 3rd round picks would be the guy. Cheaper option with a lot of upside because of age. I think he's a better receiver than Martin right now to be honest and it pains me to say that.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:07 AM
I agree..... I think Welker would be ridiculous in this offense. But I'm really hoping Martin makes the jump that most receivers make from year 1 to year 2. I like the Patterson pick. Hate the Tate trade though. Other than that I'd be satisfied with that offseason.

If we're looking for a slot guy though Swope with one of our 3rd round picks would be the guy. Cheaper option with a lot of upside because of age. I think he's a better receiver than Martin right now to be honest and it pains me to say that.

While I like the "potential" of what Tate brings, he is consistently injured and in Garys doghouse, and we CANNOT go through another season with Foster getting abused like that. Trade Tate since we won't keep him past next season anyway, get what you can for him. Forsett is good enough and Mike James will be a threat to get play time as a rookie at least a little. He is a veteran college player and has great hands and blocking ability plus he hits the hole fast and hard, no dancing.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 08:12 AM
While I like the "potential" of what Tate brings, he is consistently injured and in Garys doghouse, and we CANNOT go through another season with Foster getting abused like that. Trade Tate since we won't keep him past next season anyway, get what you can for him. Forsett is good enough and Mike James will be a threat to get play time as a rookie at least a little. He is a veteran college player and has great hands and blocking ability plus he hits the hole fast and hard, no dancing.

Pretty tough to say he's consistently injured. He had a freak injury on his first carry in the preaseason his rookie year. Was healthy all of last year. This past year he had hamstring issues, but so did Andre last year. Look how well he bounced back from it. If all we'd be getting is a 5th for him then I'd rather keep him and get whatever we can in a comp pick the following year. You would have a highly motivated player on your hands and to me that's worth holding onto.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:14 AM
I too like Martin, but I would prefer a more veteran presence in the slot to show Martin the finer things about the position. Even if Welker is not the guy we sign, we should consider some of the other names, lots of good wide outs this off-season. Don't target a top name like Wallace, Bowe or Jennings, but immediately try to sign a lesser guy like Hartline or Amendola.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 08:18 AM
I too like Martin, but I would prefer a more veteran presence in the slot to show Martin the finer things about the position. Even if Welker is not the guy we sign, we should consider some of the other names, lots of good wide outs this off-season. Don't target a top name like Wallace, Bowe or Jennings, but immediately try to sign a lesser guy like Hartline or Amendola.

All of those guys will probably be too expensive for us to sign. My preference out of the group would be Jennings, but I don't see it happening.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:25 AM
All of those guys will probably be too expensive for us to sign. My preference out of the group would be Jennings, but I don't see it happening.

Youre right Jennings, Bowe and Wallace will be too expensive, but a guy like Welker (possibly too expensive) Hartline or Amendola won't be too expensive.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 08:30 AM
Youre right Jennings, Bowe and Wallace will be too expensive, but a guy like Welker (possibly too expensive) Hartline or Amendola won't be too expensive.

I think Amendola will be pretty pricey too. And Hartline is sneaky good. I hate to throw a number out there, but all of those guys will have more than a couple of teams battling over them. We're probably gonna have to take a chance on a guy who has talent, but their team has given up on them. Robinson from the Jags comes to mind. Robinson of the Jags is a guy that I can see becoming available with the emergence of Shorts.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:46 AM
I think Amendola will be pretty pricey too. And Hartline is sneaky good. I hate to throw a number out there, but all of those guys will have more than a couple of teams battling over them. We're probably gonna have to take a chance on a guy who has talent, but their team has given up on them. Robinson from the Jags comes to mind. Robinson of the Jags is a guy that I can see becoming available with the emergence of Shorts.

Sorry I dont see it, I think you can get Danny or Brian for say 4 years, 12 million (3 million a year) plus a bonus....

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 08:51 AM
Sorry I dont see it, I think you can get Danny or Brian for say 4 years, 12 million (3 million a year) plus a bonus....

And for the Texans thats gonna be pricey for us this year considering our cap situation. Amendola's injury history brings his price tag down to that amount. Otherwise he'd get a lot more on the market. We need a guy for about 1.5 mil a year. There's a guy I wanna bring in for camp, but I'm in the minority in that battle.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:03 AM
And for the Texans thats gonna be pricey for us this year considering our cap situation. Amendola's injury history brings his price tag down to that amount. Otherwise he'd get a lot more on the market. We need a guy for about 1.5 mil a year. There's a guy I wanna bring in for camp, but I'm in the minority in that battle.

Ummm we have a lot of guys not coming back and a guy like walter who we should cut. Walter is set to make 3.5 the 2 seasons and we have no cap hit if release, wed be stupid to keep him. That could easily buy a guy like Hartline or POSSIBLY Welker, if we convince him to come here at that price and compete for a super bowl. The guy averaged 1.5 million prior to being tagged this season. Not to mention he will be 32 when the season starts. Doesn't hurt he dropped some key passes this post-season :)

A guy like Hartline or Amendola are similar to Lloyd (1.9), Smith (2.5) (rams), and even Stevie Johnson (2.5), good wr's but not near the top 15. Im telling you they will get say 5 years 35 million, but the salaries will be VERY small and escalate later in the contract when the teams have no intention on keeping them, instead we could propose a 3 year 12 million, mostly guaranteed plus a signing bonus and walters contract alone would mostly (if not fully) cover it.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 09:06 AM
Ummm we have a lot of guys not coming back and a guy like walter who we should cut. Walter is set to make 3.5 the 2 seasons and we have no cap hit if release, wed be stupid to keep him. That could easily buy a guy like Hartline or POSSIBLY Welker, if we convince him to come here at that price and compete for a super bowl. The guy averaged 1.5 million prior to being tagged this season. Not to mention he will be 32 when the season starts. Doesn't hurt he dropped some key passes this post-season :)

A guy like Hartline or Amendola are similar to Lloyd (1.9), Smith (2.5) (rams), and even Stevie Johnson (2.5), good wr's but not near the top 15. Im telling you they will get say 5 years 35 million, but the salaries will be VERY small and escalate later in the contract when the teams have no intention on keeping them, instead we could propose a 3 year 12 million, mostly guaranteed plus a signing bonus and walters contract alone would mostly (if not fully) cover it.

You could be right, and I'm not a cap guru like some others on the board so I get my info from them and I've seen plenty of them say how we'll be strapped in the offseason. So thats a convo I really can't have due to ignorance on the subject, but I'd take any of those guys. Just don't want Walter as our number 2 again.

Rey
01-21-2013, 09:10 AM
I offered others as a good choice. But to say Welker doesn't fit this offense is crazy. He would be an excellent slot guy.

The routes our guys run and the routes welker runs in NE are completely different.

Our offense is completely different as well. We run two TE sets a bunch which means only two wr's. Welker would not NE able to just line up in the slot most of the time. He'd have to line up out wide and be counted on to block players bigger than him. I don't think welker is nearly as effective if he's lining up out wide most of the time.

IDEXAN
01-21-2013, 09:15 AM
So I gather that those xtra 3s, 5s, & 6s are comp pics for Mario, Briesel, & Dreessen ? How confidant are we that we are actually going to be awarded those pics ?

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 09:15 AM
The routes our guys run and the routes welker runs in NE are completely different.

Our offense is completely different as well. We run two TE sets a bunch which means only two wr's. Welker would not NE able to just line up in the slot most of the time. He'd have to line up out wide and be counted on to block players bigger than him. I don't think welker is nearly as effective if he's lining up out wide most of the time.

There's a reason why David Anderson hung around here so long in my opinion. Kubiak wants a guy like that but just hasn't found one he likes. While we do love 2 TE sets I don't think its far fetched at all that we'd adjust our offense to fit a guy like that. If Martin was more consistent I think we would have done that this year.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:21 AM
You could be right, and I'm not a cap guru like some others on the board so I get my info from them and I've seen plenty of them say how we'll be strapped in the offseason. So thats a convo I really can't have due to ignorance on the subject, but I'd take any of those guys. Just don't want Walter as our number 2 again.

If you allow the guys I propose to walk, you get 12.528 million back. If you cut Walter thats another 3.5 bringing it up to 16.028. Here is what is interesting though.

The genius of Rick Smith is actually in his cap ability. He is actually better than you think. Foster and Brown, Joseph, Myers, Smith and Manning increase about 3.5 million ALL TOGETHER next season. But Schaub actually goes down about 1 million. Meaning for all those guys, we only increase the salary roughly 2 M.

The problem is Andre, Antonio and Owen increase pay SUBSTANTIALLY. I would honestly expect them to re-do their deals or be cut/traded (except Andre, not sure he can do anything with his deal). If they re-do Smith and OD we will be in GREAT shape to add a piece or 2, nothing crazy, but something to help the team and still have money for draft picks. I would expect something big to happen this off-season as we prepare to sign Cushing, Watt and Kareem Jackson.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:23 AM
So I gather that those xtra 3s, 5s, & 6s are comp pics for Mario, Briesel, & Dreessen ? How confidant are we that we are actually going to be awarded those pics ?

Its rumored on numerous sites we will get those, I just rolled with it :fingergun:

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 09:26 AM
If you allow the guys I propose to walk, you get 12.528 million back. If you cut Walter thats another 3.5 bringing it up to 16.028. Here is what is interesting though.

The genius of Rick Smith is actually in his cap ability. He is actually better than you think. Foster and Brown, Joseph, Myers, Smith and Manning increase about 3.5 million ALL TOGETHER next season. But Schaub actually goes down about 1 million. Meaning for all those guys, we only increase the salary roughly 2 M.

The problem is Andre, Antonio and Owen increase pay SUBSTANTIALLY. I would honestly expect them to re-do their deals or be cut/traded (except Andre, not sure he can do anything with his deal). If they re-do Smith and OD we will be in GREAT shape to add a piece or 2, nothing crazy, but something to help the team and still have money for draft picks. I would expect something big to happen this off-season as we prepare to sign Cushing, Watt and Kareem Jackson.

Sounds good...... I'll trust you on that because I honestly have no clue. I evaluate talent well I believe but refuse to take the time to learn about the cap. So i'll defer to you on this one.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:27 AM
There's a reason why David Anderson hung around here so long in my opinion. Kubiak wants a guy like that but just hasn't found one he likes. While we do love 2 TE sets I don't think its far fetched at all that we'd adjust our offense to fit a guy like that. If Martin was more consistent I think we would have done that this year.

Anderson hung around, on the bench mostly, because we kept investing in our defense and other positions (while signing old washed up street free agents).

Gary invested in 2 wide outs since he has been here, Jones (3rd round) and Anderson(7th round), its time we take a play maker and quit relying on late round players to help this team. Posey showed promise, until he got hurt, and Martin was fast, but still a lot of work to be done to his route running. I would like to draft a big time player, as we prepare to move on from Aj within 3-5 seasons but in the meantime a stud wr will help us make a deep run and compete with high powered offenses. We have to be able to score points sometimes and having another big play maker in the redzone will help.

I still would like a proven vet as a 3rd option, because Posey and Martin still have a lot of room to grow and we don't have all the time to wait for them. This team is built to win now.

Rey
01-21-2013, 09:30 AM
There's a reason why David Anderson hung around here so long in my opinion

Not having anyone better probably has something to do with it. Kubiak's extreme loyalty to his guys is also a factor.

Whats the reason Walter has hung around as a starter for so long?

Because he wants a guy like welker starting there instead?

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 09:33 AM
Not having anyone better probably has something to do with it. Kubiak's extreme loyalty to his guys is also a factor.

Whats the reason Walter has hung around as a starter for so long?

Because he wants a guy like welker starting there instead?

That's an answer I'm sure most of us would love to know. I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree that our route combos are that much different than what Welker runs now.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:34 AM
Not having anyone better probably has something to do with it. Kubiak's extreme loyalty to his guys is also a factor.

Whats the reason Walter has hung around as a starter for so long?

Because he wants a guy like welker starting there instead?

Just because he is loyal, doesn't mean he is smart. Neither one has warranted a position on this team. Walter has been declining since he got here and to say his blocking skills are superb is stupid. Last I checked blocking is only a small skill on a large scale. Its time we stop living in the 90s pretending like running teams with pass blocking wrs are the way to win. Hell even the Niners and Ravens (who have superb defenses) have legit weapons for their qb. Its time we invest in GOOD players at the skill positions instead of just being loyal to "good boys".

amazing80
01-21-2013, 09:39 AM
Hell even walter was a 7th round pick, its like Gary values wide outs like he does corners or offensive linemen, just pick a low skill player who blocks and we should be good....his ego is disgusting when it comes to certain players and his eye for talent is sorely lacking. Guess what, 2 of the better players on this team in those positions (Brown and Jackson) were FIRST ROUND PICKS, after numerous failed attempts in lower round picks. Its time we do the same for wide out.

Rey
01-21-2013, 09:53 AM
That's an answer I'm sure most of us would love to know. I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree that our route combos are that much different than what Welker runs now.

Our routes are vastly different.

Patriots run a lot of short quick developing routes.

Our routes usually take longer to develop. Despite the complaints of Matt throwing short, we run a bunch of long routes. Deep crosses.

And I still believe that we just aren't built for a slot guy to be the number two receiver. Kubiak loves his fb a te's. Wes works better in an offense where they spread it out. Kubiak would have to make some significant changes to his offense to accommodate one player.

There are other players like welker. Not great outside receivers, but good slot guys. Keyshawn Martin isn't that kind of player, despite his size.

Kw would be a good slot receiver for us. Can block, would not need to be on the field all the time, and a nice big target for matt to hit in traffic.

Texn4life
01-21-2013, 10:06 AM
Our routes are vastly different.

Patriots run a lot of short quick developing routes.

Our routes usually take longer to develop. Despite the complaints of Matt throwing short, we run a bunch of long routes. Deep crosses.

And I still believe that we just aren't built for a slot guy to be the number two receiver. Kubiak loves his fb a te's. Wes works better in an offense where they spread it out. Kubiak would have to make some significant changes to his offense to accommodate one player.

There are other players like welker. Not great outside receivers, but good slot guys. Keyshawn Martin isn't that kind of player, despite his size.

Kw would be a good slot receiver for us. Can block, would not need to be on the field all the time, and a nice big target for matt to hit in traffic.

We must be watching a different offense then if you think we don't throw a lot of short, quick developing routes. I respect your football knowledge, but I don't agree with you on this one.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 10:14 AM
We must be watching a different offense then if you think we don't throw a lot of short, quick developing routes. I respect your football knowledge, but I don't agree with you on this one.

I agree, I can't agree after watching this team over the years to think Welker wouldn't fit this offense perfectly. We run 3 wide sets quite often and to me Welker would be a number 3 more than he would a number 2. I would and did draft a play maker at wr to take over number 2 duties.

And to say he doesn't work the deep part of the field is a joke. In 2011 he was top 10 in 20 and 40 plus yard catches and this season is was top 20.

Pair him with Andre and a young play maker, we'd be dangerous.

Rey
01-21-2013, 10:15 AM
Welker isn't coming here to be a number three receiver.

Playoffs
01-21-2013, 10:16 AM
I feel like if Bradie James is still here in September we haven't improved enough on defense.

I would resign Donnie Jones -- ProFootballFocus had him as their top rated overall punter. We can't afford to get even worse on special teams. :smiliepalm:

I don't see Wes Welker as a fit in this offense. I think anyone who signs him won't get near the production you see w/NE.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 10:27 AM
Welker isn't coming here to be a number three receiver.

Yea, I doubt many super bowl contenders will offer him a contract, so why not come here to at least compete, its not like he is young and dominant. He was a no body prior to New England, so why wouldn't he come here and contribute while competing for another ring? :slapfight:


Even so I would be ok with Brian Hartline who I think we COULD sign for a good price and who WOULD want to come here.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 10:29 AM
I feel like if Bradie James is still here in September we haven't improved enough on defense.

I would resign Donnie Jones -- ProFootballFocus had him as their top rated overall punter. We can't afford to get even worse on special teams. :smiliepalm:

I don't see Wes Welker as a fit in this offense. I think anyone who signs him won't get near the production you see w/NE.

For me, with all those comp picks, I would prefer to draft a younger, cheaper punter with a big leg, some good ones this season. Ryan Allen for instance is a BEAST. the only 2 time Ray Guy award winner and had a beastly net punt average. He would be a long term solution and could cut the salary in half, its all about the money at this point IMO, not to mention p's and k's are getting better and better coming out of college, its not like before when you couldn't trust a young kicker. Times are changing.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 11:05 AM
If you allow the guys I propose to walk, you get 12.528 million back. If you cut Walter thats another 3.5 bringing it up to 16.028. Here is what is interesting though.

The genius of Rick Smith is actually in his cap ability. He is actually better than you think. Foster and Brown, Joseph, Myers, Smith and Manning increase about 3.5 million ALL TOGETHER next season. But Schaub actually goes down about 1 million. Meaning for all those guys, we only increase the salary roughly 2 M.

The problem is Andre, Antonio and Owen increase pay SUBSTANTIALLY. I would honestly expect them to re-do their deals or be cut/traded (except Andre, not sure he can do anything with his deal). If they re-do Smith and OD we will be in GREAT shape to add a piece or 2, nothing crazy, but something to help the team and still have money for draft picks. I would expect something big to happen this off-season as we prepare to sign Cushing, Watt and Kareem Jackson.

Actually I made a mistake, Smith and Daniels salary only goes up about 500k EACH, so a million total.

So if you take all the "big" increases you have 5.4 (Aj) and 4.5 (for everyone except Schaub) and -1 (schaub)

So you have ROUGHLY 9 million of the 16 (assuming you cut Walter) leaving you with 7 million left. I would still like to see something done with Dre, but I doubt we can do anything since he re-did his contract numerous times.

If it is similar to last season we would have about 1.5 cap hit in the first round and a drop from there. Lets just round it, because I don't have time to go through all 10 other picks. 500k for each pick meaning 2.5 million plus the 1.5 for the first rounder.

We would have 3 million left over. The guys we would "plan" on re-signing come out to be 5.3 M (not including Alexander and Gardner, because they don't actually come off being ERFA and RFA). That is 8.3 million plus tates 760k brings it up to about 9 million.

Now we need to sign Ball, Barwin, Quin, James, Forsett and Harris still. Can we sign all of them and have room to sign someone else, IDK.

BullNation4Life
01-21-2013, 11:41 AM
I don't think Welker would come here for the simple fact he is terrified of the Reliant turf. He hates the turf at Reliant ever since he blew his knee out.

I think Antonio is going to be a cap casualty this offseason...Sucks but I think they were impressed enough with Crick to replace Smith...

as for the mock, holy crap Amazing, bring on the offseason already!

and you are correct, if this was anybody else, mainly one particular poster who likes to write boring, uninteresting articles because he/she is a wannabe journalist, I move on. BUT it's you and a mock sooo...

Read on young scholars...

Tailgate
01-21-2013, 12:28 PM
The good news is in 2 weeks everyone is back on the same playing field again. Dead period, then combine... Then free agency and the draft countdown begins.

Despite everything, we have alot to look forward to next year... AGAIN!!

amazing80
01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
I don't think Welker would come here for the simple fact he is terrified of the Reliant turf. He hates the turf at Reliant ever since he blew his knee out.

I think Antonio is going to be a cap casualty this offseason...Sucks but I think they were impressed enough with Crick to replace Smith...

as for the mock, holy crap Amazing, bring on the offseason already!

and you are correct, if this was anybody else, mainly one particular poster who likes to write boring, uninteresting articles because he/she is a wannabe journalist, I move on. BUT it's you and a mock sooo...

Read on young scholars...

I actually think Owen Daniels has a better chance of being a casualty than Smith. Smith is under rated as hell around here and if anything, they could extend him some and re work his deal to lower his hit. OD on the other hand still struggles blocking and GG has shown the ability to be a reliable catcher. Not saying I am in favor of this, we do seem to be good at acquiring good TEs and we need to create space somewhere....

Corrosion
01-21-2013, 01:17 PM
Qb - Matt Schaub, TJ Yates
RB - Arian Foster, Justin Forsett, Mike James
FB - Tyler Clutts, Braden Wilson
WR - Andre Johnson, Cordarrelle Patterson, Wes Welker, Devier Posey, Keyshawn Martin
TE - Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham, Zach Sudfeld
LT - Duane Brown, Rick Wagner, Andrew Gardner
OG - Wade Smith, Cody White
C - Chris Myers, Ben Jones
OG - Brandon Brooks, David Quessenberry
RT - Derek Newton, Ryan Harris

DE - Antonio Smith, Jared Crick
NT - Kawann Short, Earl Mitchell
DE - JJ Watt, Joe Vellano
OLB - Connor Barwin, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB - Brian Cushing, AJ Klein, Bradie James, Mister Alexander
OLB - Brooks Reed, Victor Butler
CB - JJo, Kareem Jackson, Alan Ball, Brandon Harris, Tyrann Mathieu, Roc CarMichael
SS - Daniel Manning, Cooper Taylor, Eddie Pheasant
FS - Glover Quin, Shiloh Keo

P - Ryan Allen
K - Randy Bullock


I dont see that as an improvement overall from what the team ended the season with .... starting with the OL

amazing80
01-21-2013, 02:16 PM
I dont see that as an improvement overall from what the team ended the season with .... starting with the OL

Sorry to burst your bubble but we're not gonna scrap 2nd year players on the right side. They will have full chance to take another step forward. We added a play maker at WR and NT and added depth throughout the team. What do you expect in one off-season?

gafftop
01-21-2013, 08:13 PM
If you allow the guys I propose to walk, you get 12.528 million back. If you cut Walter thats another 3.5 bringing it up to 16.028. Here is what is interesting though.

The genius of Rick Smith is actually in his cap ability. He is actually better than you think. Foster and Brown, Joseph, Myers, Smith and Manning increase about 3.5 million ALL TOGETHER next season. But Schaub actually goes down about 1 million. Meaning for all those guys, we only increase the salary roughly 2 M.

The problem is Andre, Antonio and Owen increase pay SUBSTANTIALLY. I would honestly expect them to re-do their deals or be cut/traded (except Andre, not sure he can do anything with his deal). If they re-do Smith and OD we will be in GREAT shape to add a piece or 2, nothing crazy, but something to help the team and still have money for draft picks. I would expect something big to happen this off-season as we prepare to sign Cushing, Watt and Kareem Jackson.

Can't go with genius and Rick in same sentance unless there is a "not" in there also. (1) Kept Mario when there was no way we would ever resign him under any circumstance. We lost value there. We might have been able to keep some of the players we had to let go plus/or had multiple draft choices (2) Resigned MS to long extension this year.

Building a team that lasts is all about buying low and selling high. We do buy low for the most part ( I still question the purchase price of MS) but I don't think we have ever sold high or sold at any price for that matter. I take that back I think we got something for someone last year, but we did not sell high.
Just my opinion.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:15 PM
Can't go with genius and Rick in same sentance unless there is a "not" in there also. (1) Kept Mario when there was no way we would ever resign him under any circumstance. We lost value there. We might have been able to keep some of the players we had to let go plus/or had multiple draft choices (2) Resigned MS to long extension this year.

Building a team that lasts is all about buying low and selling high. We do buy low for the most part ( I still question the purchase price of MS) but I don't think we have ever sold high or sold at any price for that matter. I take that back I think we got something for someone last year, but we did not sell high.
Just my opinion.

Were getting a 3rd for Mario through comp picks, maybe no one would give us anything better....knowing we wouldn't keep him anyway.....sometimes its not what it seems.

Corrosion
01-21-2013, 08:18 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but we're not gonna scrap 2nd year players on the right side. They will have full chance to take another step forward. We added a play maker at WR and NT and added depth throughout the team. What do you expect in one off-season?

Newton is a 6th round draft pick who performed .... better than his draft status but far below what was needed in the running game. He was pretty solid in pass protection .... I would like to see him as the swing tackle going forward and the team improve the RT spot either thru FA or an early draft pick.


McNair even stated that if they expect to run the ball better the OL has to improve.

I see them addressing RT and WR with either early draft picks (rounds 1-2) or significant FA additions.

In the mid rounds I see ILB / OLB and DB being addressed.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:25 PM
Newton is a 6th round draft pick who performed .... better than his draft status but far below what was needed in the running game. He was pretty solid in pass protection .... I would like to see him as the swing tackle going forward and the team improve the RT spot either thru FA or an early draft pick.


McNair even stated that if they expect to run the ball better the OL has to improve.

I see them addressing RT and WR with either early draft picks (rounds 1-2) or significant FA additions.

In the mid rounds I see ILB / OLB and DB being addressed.

Ricky Wagner has tons of potential and comes from a pro style offense in Wisconsin. I drafted him and he would immediately push Newton, but I doubt Gary gives up on Newton that soon, just not his MO

Corrosion
01-21-2013, 08:51 PM
Ricky Wagner has tons of potential and comes from a pro style offense in Wisconsin. I drafted him and he would immediately push Newton, but I doubt Gary gives up on Newton that soon, just not his MO

I dont see Newton or Jones as the starters on the right side next season ..... Jones was passed late in the season by Brooks and Newton just isnt good enough as a run blocker.


I know a lot of people think like you do about Gary .... but I dont think the shoe fits. They know they have to run the ball better next season than they did over the final half of this one .... or they will be on the outside looking in again. Gary's said it , Bob's said it , Rick's said it - We need to get better up front. That aint no smoke screen.

They might not do it in the draft but they will address the RT spot ...

gafftop
01-21-2013, 09:45 PM
Were getting a 3rd for Mario through comp picks, maybe no one would give us anything better....knowing we wouldn't keep him anyway.....sometimes its not what it seems.

How do you know we get a 3rd round pick?
Also a trade would have freed up 18 mil of cap space that we could have used for other purposes.

Corrosion
01-21-2013, 09:50 PM
How do you know we get a 3rd round pick?
Also a trade would have freed up 18 mil of cap space that we could have used for other purposes.

Its a compensatory pick .... It'll most definately be a 3rd rounder based upon MW's contract alone.

Briesel and Dreesen should net us at least 5th and 7th rounders. Possibly two 5th's tho I think thats remote.

amazing80
01-22-2013, 07:20 AM
Its a compensatory pick .... It'll most definately be a 3rd rounder based upon MW's contract alone.

Briesel and Dreesen should net us at least 5th and 7th rounders. Possibly two 5th's tho I think thats remote.

Lots of places suggest a 3rd and 3 6ths