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View Full Version : Bob McNair's Thoughts...


tru80texan
01-19-2013, 08:38 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texans&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEgQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fultimatetexans%2 F2013%2F01%2Fmcclain-qa-with-bob-mcnair%2F&ei=pEf7UNP0COnQ2wWak4GoCg&usg=AFQjCNGKMuevAKe72KiIqZJZ9Z8qCQkpXA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U

Here's an interview John McClain had w/ Bob McNair. Has some pretty interesting quotes from ole Bob. Seems Bob agrees the team needs a mental toughness adjustment when playing the big boys on the national stage & another playmaker at wr. Unfortunately he exudes all kinds of confidence in Kubiak, his coaches(saving grace for Marciano???), & Schaub. More wins is Bob's goal, but it would be nice if those wins could lead to something more then the Divisional round in the playoffs. Thoughts on what he had to say...

Playoffs
01-19-2013, 08:54 PM
Q. What do you think the team needs?

A. “We need another playmaker (at receiver). We want more speed at receiver. Andre (Johnson) had a great year, but we can’t expect him to carry the load for all the receivers. If we say we’re going to run the ball better, we need to make sure we’ve got depth in our offensive line. We need more depth at linebacker. We can always use another cornerback. We don’t have a glaring weakness. We’ve got a good team, and we’re going to keep building on it.”


McLame totally blows the chance to shine the light on Marciano. :smiliepalm:

tru80texan
01-19-2013, 09:09 PM
Q. What do you think the team needs?

A. “We need another playmaker (at receiver). We want more speed at receiver. Andre (Johnson) had a great year, but we can’t expect him to carry the load for all the receivers. If we say we’re going to run the ball better, we need to make sure we’ve got depth in our offensive line. We need more depth at linebacker. We can always use another cornerback. We don’t have a glaring weakness. We’ve got a good team, and we’re going to keep building on it.”


McLame totally blows the chance to shine the light on Marciano. :smiliepalm:

Couldn't agree more, but we all know McLame will only push so far.

Knowing what McNair's expectations are for next season & next seasons schedule not quite being the cake walk that it was this season, it will be interesting to see if McNair walks the talk if the Texans regress under Kubiak & Schaub. Will Bob be willing to do what it takes & replace either one of them if he doesn't get what he wants & that's ultimately a Super Bowl win by his own admission. I have my doubts considering it seems he is somehow accepting of Marciano's performance.

CloakNNNdagger
01-19-2013, 09:38 PM
McNair: We will definitely find another talented WR opposite AJ so that we can say that we have at least TWO reliable targets that Schaub can't get it to.

McNair: We have ordered a fresh lucky rabbit's foot for Coach Joe to replace the one he lost 2 years ago. To Joe's credit, he truly did try to substitute it last year........a chicken leg was all he could come up with........it didn't work so well,probably because it broke in his back pocket when I kicked him in the ass after one of the early preseason games.

McNair: We're going to paint the ceiling of Reliant Stadium roof bright blue along with a big yellow sun so that we can give our fans a better game experience next year.:chef:

tru80texan
01-19-2013, 09:42 PM
McNair: We will definitely find another talented WR opposite AJ so that we can say that we have at least TWO reliable targets that Schaub can't get it to.

McNair: We have ordered a fresh lucky rabbit's foot for Coach Joe to replace the one he lost 2 years ago. To Joe's credit, he truly did try to substitute it last year........a chicken leg was all he could come up with........it didn't work so well,probably because it broke in his back pocket when I kicked him in the ass after one of the early preseason games.

McNair: We're going to paint the ceiling of Reliant Stadium roof bright blue along with a big yellow sun so that we can give our fans a better game experience next year.:chef:

I hope not! There's no telling how much the tickets will increase in price for that upgrade. :headhurts: lol!

MistaRed
01-20-2013, 01:43 AM
Hmmm interesting.

Wolf6151
01-20-2013, 02:01 AM
Q: What do you think the team needs?
A: We need another playmaker (at receiver). We want more speed at receiver. Andre (Johnson) had a great year, but we can’t expect him to carry the load for all the receivers. If we say we’re going to run the ball better, we need to make sure we’ve got depth in our offensive line. We need more depth at linebacker. We can always use another cornerback. We don’t have a glaring weakness. We’ve got a good team, and we’re going to keep building on it.

It sounds like McNair is going to help out Kubiak again by pointing him in the right direction. Hopefully we'll see an emphasis on WR and O-line in the 2013 draft like so many of us have been wanting for a couple years. I just hope it's not some late round picks or UDFA's that we're relying on again.

Corrosion
01-20-2013, 01:09 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

Dont see whats so lame about his statements as he's saying the very same things many of us are - We need a playmaker at WR. We need to improve the OL , we need improvement at LB and you can never have enough guy's who can cover (CB).

Vinny
01-20-2013, 01:10 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!
same drivel, same depressing post...next post should be positive!

Playoffs
01-20-2013, 01:11 PM
Lame owner...Not.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 01:21 PM
He wants to go 15-1 which is fine if you win the big prize . Going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl is better .

MEGA SWATT
01-20-2013, 01:21 PM
Sorry, but until they win a superbowl - he's a lame owner.:cutthroat:


He wants to go 15-1 which is fine if you win the big prize . Going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl is better .

yup

EllisUnit
01-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

Lame poster, Lame post, Lame all around.....Next post should be as equally lame.

:kitten: couldnt help myself no hard feelings CK all in fun :)

silentassassin
01-20-2013, 01:44 PM
He wants to go 15-1 which is fine if you win the big prize . Going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl is better .

Not necessarily. In his answer to the prior question, he mentioned 11 and 13 wins. Both of those totals include the playoff victories.

The 15 that he wants could include playoff/Super Bowl victories.

drs23
01-20-2013, 01:45 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

Man I say if it's that bad and you're that miserable perhaps you should find another team to follow or even another sport.

Of every post I've ever read from you is negative. Not one positive thought or point yet.

Are you negative about every aspect of your life, or just when you troll here?

FO

HJam72
01-20-2013, 01:46 PM
same drivel, same depressing post...next post should be positive!

I like the sun on the ceiling idea! :texanbill:


:wadepalm:

Textan
01-20-2013, 01:59 PM
He wants to go 15-1 which is fine if you win the big prize . Going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl is better .

Yup, that awesome season record is now a bitter sweet memory as I prepare to watch New England and Baltimore play the AFC championship, while my Texans sit and watch too.
Great stats, great records equate to squat.

Textan
01-20-2013, 02:00 PM
Not necessarily. In his answer to the prior question, he mentioned 11 and 13 wins. Both of those totals include the playoff victories.

The 15 that he wants could include playoff/Super Bowl victories.

Good Lord I hope IT DOES, no COULD.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 02:23 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texans&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEgQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fultimatetexans%2 F2013%2F01%2Fmcclain-qa-with-bob-mcnair%2F&ei=pEf7UNP0COnQ2wWak4GoCg&usg=AFQjCNGKMuevAKe72KiIqZJZ9Z8qCQkpXA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U

Here's an interview John McClain had w/ Bob McNair. Has some pretty interesting quotes from ole Bob. Seems Bob agrees the team needs a mental toughness adjustment when playing the big boys on the national stage & another playmaker at wr. Unfortunately he exudes all kinds of confidence in Kubiak, his coaches(saving grace for Marciano???), & Schaub. More wins is Bob's goal, but it would be nice if those wins could lead to something more then the Divisional round in the playoffs. Thoughts on what he had to say...

Uh... as much as people don't lilke McClain, I can see why the Texans like him even less. He didn't pull any punches & I think he asked the questions fans wanted asked. He didn't get the answers we wanted, but that's on McNair.

I do like McNair's optimism. Like him, I believe we should keep going forward. No reason to blow everything up now. San Francisco went to the NFC Championship twice in two years, with a college head coach. We haven't been to the AFC Championship game once with our veteran coach. But it's too late to fix that now. It is. It makes more sense to stay the coarse.

Good read.

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 02:34 PM
Uh... as much as people don't lilke McClain, I can see why the Texans like him even less. He didn't pull any punches & I think he asked the questions fans wanted asked. He didn't get the answers we wanted, but that's on McNair.

I do like McNair's optimism. Like him, I believe we should keep going forward. No reason to blow everything up now. San Francisco went to the NFC Championship twice in two years, with a college head coach. We haven't been to the AFC Championship game once with our veteran coach. But it's too late to fix that now. It is. It makes more sense to stay the coarse.

Good read.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of McClain by any means. He probably picked up most of the questions from his chat w/ the fans he has. He's a poor excuse of "insider" that we have to depend on. What can you do?

I hope stay the course is not what McNair chooses to do IF the Texans regress next season. As you mentioned, Harbaugh turned SF around quickly as did Shanahan in Washington. I don't think its blowing up a team w/ a coaching change or QB change if the team has talent, but is simply underachieving. A change is sometimes needed to get a team over the hump & succeed.

Jules Winnfield
01-20-2013, 02:40 PM
Q. What do you think the team needs?

A. “We need another playmaker (at receiver). We want more speed at receiver. Andre (Johnson) had a great year, but we can’t expect him to carry the load for all the receivers. If we say we’re going to run the ball better, we need to make sure we’ve got depth in our offensive line. We need more depth at linebacker. We can always use another cornerback. We don’t have a glaring weakness. We’ve got a good team, and we’re going to keep building on it.”


McLame totally blows the chance to shine the light on Marciano. :smiliepalm:

because mclain is a paid hack on the texan payroll.

this stuff happens when there is only one major newspaper in the 4th largest city in america.

Lurvinator11
01-20-2013, 03:29 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.

I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones.

Jerry Jones



Get out.

So you would want somebody who isn't willing to accept the blame for why their team has been so mediocre?

Someone who, despite having a successful HC, fires him just because they don't agree?

Jerry is the reason the Cowboys have been stuck in a rut. I'd choose an owner like McNair over the Jerry any day.

Oh and btw, I understand the need to be negative about the team, and that is what you do. However, if this team gives you such a fit, then why even waste your time rooting for this team?

Corrosion
01-20-2013, 03:42 PM
Its just status quo ... "I support the staff and the QB we need to get better" bull****.

I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.

There is no reason our season ended the way it did other than the failure of the coaching staff and the QB.

Where is he saying that?

.


You'd rather have Jerrah Jones ?! What the hell have they done in the last decade ?!

I think Bob's got it right when he says he wants to emulate the Steelers orginization. They may have a down year here and there .... but they are in general an excellent orginization with high expectations each year.

Heath Shuler
01-20-2013, 03:53 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.



Jerry Jones?????? Jerry Jones needs to put a foot in his own ass.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 04:24 PM
I hope stay the course is not what McNair chooses to do IF the Texans regress next season. As you mentioned, Harbaugh turned SF around quickly as did Shanahan in Washington. I don't think its blowing up a team w/ a coaching change or QB change if the team has talent, but is simply underachieving. A change is sometimes needed to get a team over the hump & succeed.

I don't think we regressed in 2012. I think Cincinnati was a better team than Tj beat in 2011 & I think New England was a better team than last years Ravens. For a short time last year, we were the standard everyone was chasing.

If we get bounced by New England in next year's play-offs, I don't care if it's Wild Card, or Championship game, I'd want to see a change. Especially if we fail to beat them in the regular season as well.

silentassassin
01-20-2013, 04:33 PM
Good Lord I hope IT DOES, no COULD.

I only say could because I wasn't there for the interview. So not as much context to go off of.

But the mentions of 11 and 13 should imply that yes, it DOES mean playoffs/Super Bowl included.

steelbtexan
01-20-2013, 04:42 PM
You'd rather have Jerrah Jones ?! What the hell have they done in the last decade ?!

I think Bob's got it right when he says he wants to emulate the Steelers orginization. They may have a down year here and there .... but they are in general an excellent orginization with high expectations each year.

Agreed about Jerrah

However give me an org like Chicago/SF/Sea. If things aren't working out heads roll. Look at the turnover of GMN/asst coaches, not to mention they make moves to improve their teams, player wise.

Would BoB ever have a Randy Moss on his team? Would he ever hire Pete Carroll and have Marshawn Lynch on his team? etc...

Remember when the Texans didn't have a RB? People/me were clamouring for the Texans to trade for Lynch. Lynch may be a disgusting human being, but he's one of the top 5 RB's in the NFL. All for the low cost of a 4th rd pick.

Pats traded in season for Talib, still playing with Talib starting? at the cost of a 4th rd draft pick.

Point is the teams still playing take chances on guys like this. Texans? nope, but they got a good little team. This is why I would draft a guy like Matheiu with the supp 3rd rd draft pick. He is a dynamic return guy who can be McCains replacement of play FS in a single high S look. This guy is a playmaker.

Will the Texans take a shot at a talented guy like this for example on the cheap? No way,No how, it's not the Texans way. Winning be damned.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 04:52 PM
You'd rather have Jerrah Jones ?! What the hell have they done in the last decade ?!

I think Bob's got it right when he says he wants to emulate the Steelers orginization. They may have a down year here and there .... but they are in general an excellent orginization with high expectations each year.

Steelers didn't even make the play-offs. Time to blow it up. New QB, new DC, new HC, hell toss the GM too.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 04:58 PM
Steelers didn't even make the play-offs. Time to blow it up. New QB, new DC, new HC, hell toss the GM too.

Why did Arians leave the Steelers ?

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 05:11 PM
It sucks when the team doesn't do what you want them to do. I know.



However give me an org like Chicago/SF/Sea. If things aren't working out heads roll. Look at the turnover of GMN/asst coaches, not to mention they make moves to improve their teams, player wise.

There are more teams out there that make those moves that aren't playing right now. They didn't play last week, & they didn't play the week before. I didn't see the Falcons canning their coach & GM when they failed to advance in the play offs three years running.


Would BoB ever have a Randy Moss on his team? Would he ever hire Pete Carroll and have Marshawn Lynch on his team? etc...

We brought Eric Moulds on the team, I don't know why we wouldn't have brought Randy Moss, other than most people thought he was done. As much as I don't like Pete Carroll coaching other teams, I wouldn't mind him in Houston. I don't see why McNair wouldn't have brought him in. Other than our GM probably doesn't know him & he never would have probed for interest.

Lynch..... Sounds like you're GMing this thing looking backwards. It's real easy to do it that way.

Pats traded in season for Talib, still playing with Talib starting? at the cost of a 4th rd draft pick.

Another weakness of our scouting & GM

duly noted.


Point is the teams still playing take chances on guys like this. Texans? nope, but they got a good little team. This is why I would draft a guy like Matheiu with the supp 3rd rd draft pick. He is a dynamic return guy who can be McCains replacement of play FS in a single high S look. This guy is a playmaker.

What chances did Atlanta take?


Will the Texans take a shot at a talented guy like this for example on the cheap? No way,No how, it's not the Texans way. Winning be damned.

Chances are they won't. However, I like your thinking. No Joke, I think you should put together a portfolio & keep knocking on McNairs door until he agrees to see you.

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 05:13 PM
Why did Arians leave the Steelers ?

He was reportedly fired by the owner because after going 12-4 they lost to an underdog Denver team & the offense wasn't going in the direction the owner wanted. Some will foolishly say that didn't help & they regressed this season because of that. I would think them playing w/ a 3rd string QB & 3rd string rb at different points during the season combined w/ injuries to a few members of the o-lineman, wr's, & defense had more to do w/ it, but its a lot easier to ignore all of that in effort to defend kubiak & schaub & why they should be retained at all cost.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 05:13 PM
Why did Arians leave the Steelers ?

Good question.

The bleacher report believes (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1032614-steelers-offensive-coordinator-bruce-arians-retires-a-city-cheers) it was because Arians wasn't very creative.

Arians is retiring to graze the pasture, or whatever it is that retired football coaches do. Either way, it is time for a change in Pittsburgh. The offense was handicapped by conservatism, something that drew me and a lot of other Steelers fans insane over the past four years. I'm exhausted.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 05:23 PM
He was reportedly fired by the owner because after going 12-4 they lost to an underdog Denver team & the offense wasn't going in the direction the owner wanted. Some will foolishly say that didn't help & they regressed this season because of that. I would think them playing w/ a 3rd string QB & 3rd string rb at different points during the season combined w/ injuries to a few members of the o-lineman, wr's, & defense had more to do w/ it, but its a lot easier to ignore all of that in effort to defend kubiak & schaub & why they should be retained at all cost.

or don't hire Todd Haley .

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 05:30 PM
or don't hire Todd Haley .

LOL! Like I said, its easier to ignore everything else for some. This whole"looking at the big picture" gets in my way. What can you do...I'm working on it. :wadepalm:

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 05:33 PM
He was reportedly fired by the owner because after going 12-4 they lost to an underdog Denver team & the offense wasn't going in the direction the owner wanted. Some will foolishly say that didn't help & they regressed this season because of that. I would think them playing w/ a 3rd string QB & 3rd string rb at different points during the season combined w/ injuries to a few members of the o-lineman, wr's, & defense had more to do w/ it, but its a lot easier to ignore all of that in effort to defend kubiak & schaub & why they should be retained at all cost.

Well...... not that I want to defend Kubiak at all costs, but he got his team to the divisional round under the same circumstances.

TheDream34
01-20-2013, 05:34 PM
While I'm not the biggest McNair fan, I do like that he mentioned we need to get mentally tougher on the big national stage. If the Texans struggle in big stage regular season games, how will they play if they ever reach a Super Bowl?

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 05:34 PM
LOL! Like I said, its easier to ignore everything else for some. This whole"looking at the big picture" gets in my way. What can you do...I'm working on it. :wadepalm:

Haley's dink and dunk ignores Ben's long passing to go along with Wallace and Brown's speed . That's if they get Wallace into camp .

deucetx
01-20-2013, 05:47 PM
What chances did Atlanta take?



They traded several picks to obtain one player in the draft (Julio Jones). So yeah....they took chances to get the playmaker they felt they needed. So basically every team in the title games took some sort of chance that is non-traditional. Whether signing an issue player (Talib-NE), firing offensive coordinator in third quarter of season (Ravens), Trading to get that playmaker (see above), changing quarterbacks despite winning with the previous (49ers).

In any case, McNair's answers seem good except the coaching one. Not expecting anything with Kubiak but all the coaching staff didn't step up and we already named the individual. Then again it could just be the political crap. I care more on actions than on words. He could say all that and Kubes turns around and fires Marciano. I'll wait and see.

Other than that he didn't say anything we didn't and he's right on most of those points. Hopefully Smith is capable of actually executing this though. That may be the bigger question.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 05:49 PM
Well...... not that I want to defend Kubiak at all costs, but he got his team to the divisional round under the same circumstances.

This is a chicken or the egg situation .

:chicken:. Before the season the expectations were soaring because the Texans looked stacked . On defense it was thought they would improve from the number 2 ranking .

:lightbulb: The Texans were not as good as we thought . Losing Breisel , Winston , Dreesen , and Demeco along with Cushing's injury , proved costly .

CloakNNNdagger
01-20-2013, 05:57 PM
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texans&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEgQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fultimatetexans%2 F2013%2F01%2Fmcclain-qa-with-bob-mcnair%2F&ei=pEf7UNP0COnQ2wWak4GoCg&usg=AFQjCNGKMuevAKe72KiIqZJZ9Z8qCQkpXA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2U

Here's an interview John McClain had w/ Bob McNair. Has some pretty interesting quotes from ole Bob. Seems Bob agrees the team needs a mental toughness adjustment when playing the big boys on the national stage & another playmaker at wr. Unfortunately he exudes all kinds of confidence in Kubiak, his coaches(saving grace for Marciano???), & Schaub. More wins is Bob's goal, but it would be nice if those wins could lead to something more then the Divisional round in the playoffs. Thoughts on what he had to say...

I thought I had heard this "pep talk" by McNair last year, but I couldn't remember exactly when and where...........until I finally found this article in the Chronicle now.:


“I do think we need to be mentally tougher.”—Texans owner Bob McNair (http://blog.chron.com/sportsjustice/2011/08/well-we-have-to-be-there-it%E2%80%99s-time-for-us-to-make-it-happen-and-there%E2%80%99s-no-reason-why-we-shouldn%E2%80%99t-that%E2%80%99s-what-i-fully-expect-texans-owner-bob-mcnair/)
Wednesday, August 10, 2011

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 06:02 PM
I thought I had heard this "pep talk" by McNair last year, but I couldn't remember exactly when and where...........until I finally found this article in the Chronicle now.:

Bob's new tough enough coach .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzCnrpfUaAk

Lurvinator11
01-20-2013, 06:15 PM
Maybe Bob should give this talk right before the season, and maybe again before the playoffs.

I remember last season, when we lost two in a row, he challenged us, and we responded with a 7 game winning streak. I can at least assume that this team likes Bob.

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 06:21 PM
I wish someone would say we need to get better at qb or challenge our qb

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 06:30 PM
This is a chicken or the egg situation .

:chicken:. Before the season the expectations were soaring because the Texans looked stacked . On defense it was thought they would improve from the number 2 ranking .

:lightbulb: The Texans were not as good as we thought . Losing Breisel , Winston , Dreesen , and Demeco along with Cushing's injury , proved costly .

I was talking about last year, Kubiak & his 3rd string QB.

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 06:34 PM
I was talking about last year, Kubiak & his 3rd string QB.

Were a better team than this years team . :kubepalm:

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Were a better team than this years team . :kubepalm:

Gotha Earl...... I think you missed the point.

I'm not comparing this year's team to last. I was saying the 3rd string QB and other key injuries should be no excuse for the Steelers being third in their division & missing the play offs.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 06:40 PM
I wish someone would say we need to get better at qb or challenge our qb

We need to get better at QB, our guy isn't rising to the challenge.

steelbtexan
01-20-2013, 06:41 PM
[QUOTE=thunderkyss;2112983]It sucks when the team doesn't do what you want them to do. I know. (Quote:) That's just the way it is.



There are more teams out there that make those moves that aren't playing right now. They didn't play last week, & they didn't play the week before. I didn't see the Falcons canning their coach & GM when they failed to advance in the play offs three years running.

(Quote:) The Falcons are the exception to the rule. Smith would probably been fired if the miracle win against Seattle didn't happen last wk. I think I read that on PFT last wk.


We brought Eric Moulds on the team, I don't know why we wouldn't have brought Randy Moss, other than most people thought he was done. As much as I don't like Pete Carroll coaching other teams, I wouldn't mind him in Houston. I don't see why McNair wouldn't have brought him in. Other than our GM probably doesn't know him & he never would have probed for interest.

(Quote:) I brought Moss up a an example of taking a chance on a guy with questionable character. BTW, Moss made some plays today that helped the 49ers get to the SB. The Texans never take chances on guys like this.



Lynch..... Sounds like you're GMing this thing looking backwards. It's real easy to do it that way.

(Quote:) A few people wanted Lynch, most people on this MB didn't because Lynch was/is a bad human being. He is a top 5 RB though and the type of player that's a difference maker. Instead the Texans spent a 2nd rder on Tate. (Wasted draft capital. IMHO)

Another weakness of our scouting & GM

duly noted.

(Quote:) Yep, and this is why BoB should look at teams like Seattle/New England and try to emulate what they do.


What chances did Atlanta take?

(Quote:) They traded 5 draft picks including two 1st rders to trade up from the late 20's to # 5 or7.... to draft Jones and he was a star today on a team that was just a hair away from the SB. That's the definition of taking a chance. When most NFL people/fans thought they were crazy.



Chances are they won't. However, I like your thinking. No Joke, I think you should put together a portfolio & keep knocking on McNairs door until he agrees to see you.

Playoffs
01-20-2013, 06:56 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.
Okay, so you're a Cowboys fan. Makes sense, now.

I hear http://cowboyszone.com/forums/ for Cowgirls fans. Enjoy.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 07:00 PM
Okay, so you're a Cowboys fan. Makes sense, now.

I hear http://cowboyszone.com/forums/ for Cowgirls fans. Enjoy.

pssh..... Cowboy fans don't like Jerrah



:kitten:

Playoffs
01-20-2013, 07:05 PM
pssh..... Cowboy fans don't like JerrahAnyone who prefers Jerruh to Bob McNair is a Cowboys fan. Or related to Jerruh, which would be unfortunate.

drs23
01-20-2013, 07:13 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.

More than likely to put his foot in his own yap.

If you want someone like that turd running the ship it only takes away from your already non-existent credibility.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 07:18 PM
More than likely to put his foot in his own yap.


Besides, if Jerry Jones is the epitome of accountability, we should all be able to agree it's not that magic pill so many want to believe it is. It's hard enough to find the right people to lead your organization, much harder when you keep changing your mind every other year about what you want that organization to be.

badboy
01-20-2013, 07:26 PM
Agreed about Jerrah

However give me an org like Chicago/SF/Sea. If things aren't working out heads roll. Look at the turnover of GMN/asst coaches, not to mention they make moves to improve their teams, player wise.

Would BoB ever have a Randy Moss on his team? Would he ever hire Pete Carroll and have Marshawn Lynch on his team? etc...

Remember when the Texans didn't have a RB? People/me were clamouring for the Texans to trade for Lynch. Lynch may be a disgusting human being, but he's one of the top 5 RB's in the NFL. All for the low cost of a 4th rd pick.

Pats traded in season for Talib, still playing with Talib starting? at the cost of a 4th rd draft pick.

Point is the teams still playing take chances on guys like this. Texans? nope, but they got a good little team. This is why I would draft a guy like Matheiu with the supp 3rd rd draft pick. He is a dynamic return guy who can be McCains replacement of play FS in a single high S look. This guy is a playmaker.

Will the Texans take a shot at a talented guy like this for example on the cheap? No way,No how, it's not the Texans way. Winning be damned.You want a punk like Talib on Texans? Two fights with teammates, assaults a cab driver, resists arrest, gets into argument with game official, pistol whips sister's boyfriend and then 4 game suspension for taking Adderol without a prescription and that is just as a pro. You question McNair on that type guy?
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2012/11/17/trouble-follows-patriots-aqib-talib/q2mzPSFB0ACaJQtODR0I0M/story.html

steelbtexan
01-20-2013, 08:47 PM
You want a punk like Talib on Texans? Two fights with teammates, assaults a cab driver, resists arrest, gets into argument with game official, pistol whips sister's boyfriend and then 4 game suspension for taking Adderol without a prescription and that is just as a pro. You question McNair on that type guy?
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2012/11/17/trouble-follows-patriots-aqib-talib/q2mzPSFB0ACaJQtODR0I0M/story.html

He's a punk no doubt.

But he's still playing, sometimes to win you've got to make a deal with the devil. (Metaphor) Belichik is wiiling to make these deals. No I wouldn't want him on the Texans, but if it meant having a true SB contender every yr then the answer would be yes.

Playoffs
01-20-2013, 08:49 PM
He's a punk no doubt.

But he's still playing...
Actually, he's injured. :kitten:

Texan_Bill
01-20-2013, 09:01 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

LAME ASS PoST... If you really think the Owner is lame, than you are really, REALLY missing the point. You're being extrememly foolish if you believe that, and actually a borderline "dumbass"...

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 09:08 PM
I wonder if mcnair is watching a well coached team and a mentally tough team give NE all it can handle. If Balt goes 2-0 vs NE then the win vs Balt means nothing

Lurvinator11
01-20-2013, 09:09 PM
I don't want him running anything, just his desire to win.

As far as credibility I will let my rep speak for itself ...

Sometimes one's desire to win, is what blinds them to actually winning.

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 09:12 PM
LAME ASS PoST... If you really think the Owner is lame, than you are really, REALLY missing the point. You're being extrememly foolish if you believe that, and actually a borderline "dumbass"...

I dont see why its a lame post. He at least hit on two of three.

steelbtexan
01-20-2013, 09:15 PM
I dont see why its a lame post. He at least hit on two of three.

LOL,

MSR

Lame literally describes Schaub to a tee.

amazing80
01-20-2013, 09:23 PM
I dont see why its a lame post. He at least hit on two of three.

The point is, if he doesn't like anything about our franchise why root for the team, seems pointless, no?

Honoring Earl 34
01-20-2013, 09:25 PM
I wonder if mcnair is watching a well coached team and a mentally tough team give NE all it can handle. If Balt goes 2-0 vs NE then the win vs Balt means nothing

He's probably thinking the Texans beat the Ravens so why is it the Ravens are beating the Pats and the Pats killed the Texans . Well , championships aren't won in October .

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 09:33 PM
He's probably thinking the Texans beat the Ravens so why is it the Ravens are beating the Pats and the Pats killed the Texans . Well , championships aren't won in October .

Amen...Wade & Kubiak need to study this film & mimic it exactly for next year because it's obvious the Ravens know how to play the Pats. It's pretty obvious we do not.

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 09:40 PM
The point is, if he doesn't like anything about our franchise why root for the team, seems pointless, no?

Original post must want better for our franchise. I agree with the original.

ATXtexanfan
01-20-2013, 09:43 PM
Amen...Wade & Kubiak need to study this film & mimic it exactly for next year because it's obvious the Ravens know how to play the Pats. It's pretty obvious we do not.

Doesn't it make you sick that the pats beat the Crap out of us twice and the ravens beat them twice. Good thing we didn't get the one seed and have Balt at home

silentassassin
01-20-2013, 10:24 PM
Doesn't it make you sick that the pats beat the Crap out of us twice and the ravens beat them twice. Good thing we didn't get the one seed and have Balt at home

Where they lost 43-13. :koolaid:

In all seriousness, the only thing this proves is that you can't take that crappy mentality where you try to justify a team's legitimacy through results between common opponents and such.

The Third Man
01-20-2013, 10:54 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.



You know how the FBI has created a profile for serial killers? Your posts have helped us create a profile for a horrible fan. So, thanks for embarrassing yourself week after week!

dalemurphy
01-20-2013, 11:07 PM
I would rather have an owner like Jerry Jones who is willing to put a foot in someones ass.
.


Meditate on this for a while. When you think you have an adequate defense of this statement... stop... think again, and return to meditation.

If you are still believing this then:

My advice is to become a Dallas Cowboy fan for three years or so and see how you feel about it then.

Dread-Head
01-20-2013, 11:57 PM
(sigh) Two suggestions:

1. Make Yates your starter

2. return Matt Schaub to the role of BACK UP QB (as he was under dog-boy) Order restored. He's not that clutch/big game guy...and has proven it repeatedly.

BullNation4Life
01-21-2013, 01:31 AM
Uneducated in the game of football owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

I fixed the first one for you because that more speaks of who Bob McNair is. Lame, no, not by a long shot. Uneducated as to how football works, yes and has admitted that he himself is learning on the job...

McNair is a business man that bought a football team, not a business man who understands the in's and out's of football operations, like the Krafts, Rooneys, Bisciotti, just to name a few, that bought a football team...

and then when you mentioned Jerry Jones being better owner, when I was in high school, was a huge Cowboy fan because I was a huge Miami Hurricane fan and Jimmy Johnson fan. Only team I got coverage on living in/around College Station was the Cowboys so when Johnson became the coach, I watched the Cowboys. Bought their gear and all and the day Jerry Jones stuck his nose where he didn't need to, only because he wanted to play with his "toy" like a spoiled kid, and Johnson left, I burned all my Cowboy gear.

Will never cheer for an owner who takes credit for something he did not build, and that is what Jones did to Johnson...

BullNation4Life
01-21-2013, 01:32 AM
(sigh) Two suggestions:

1. Make Yates your starter

2. return Matt Schaub to the role of BACK UP QB (as he was under dog-boy) Order restored. He's not that clutch/big game guy...and has proven it repeatedly.

If what you suggested at #1 comes true, Texans are in worse shape than you could possibly know...

rolyat93
01-21-2013, 03:36 AM
Yes, they may compete a pass over 30 yards ...

To the other team.:kubepalm:

El Tejano
01-21-2013, 09:59 AM
Q. What do you think the team needs?

A. “We need another playmaker (at receiver). We want more speed at receiver. Andre (Johnson) had a great year, but we can’t expect him to carry the load for all the receivers. If we say we’re going to run the ball better, we need to make sure we’ve got depth in our offensive line. We need more depth at linebacker. We can always use another cornerback. We don’t have a glaring weakness. We’ve got a good team, and we’re going to keep building on it.”


McLame totally blows the chance to shine the light on Marciano. :smiliepalm:

Either accept a reduced role or it's bye bye KW!

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 10:19 AM
Either accept a reduced role & REDUCED SALARY or it's bye bye KW!

I made a needed adjustment. Hope you don't mind. I honestly hope he is just gone. I'm not sure Kubiak can get over his man love for Walter & will revert to old ways & continue to put Walter on the field while holding back the growth & development of our younger wr's. It's time to move on.

El Tejano
01-21-2013, 10:22 AM
I get a little upset at McNair saying we need a speed guy or play maker when Plaxico Burress was there for the taking. I'm hoping we at least made a call but something tells me we were going with the status quo since everything was working out earlier on. I don't think Plax would've been dominant from the get go but I believe he would've helped us down the stretch but we were too settled on getting Keyshawn Martin and Devier Posey experience.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 10:42 AM
I get a little upset at McNair saying we need a speed guy or play maker when Plaxico Burress was there for the taking. I'm hoping we at least made a call but something tells me we were going with the status quo since everything was working out earlier on. I don't think Plax would've been dominant from the get go but I believe he would've helped us down the stretch but we were too settled on getting Keyshawn Martin and Devier Posey experience.

There is just something in me that says a call was never even made. I don't think Plax possesses the speed he use to, but he has decent hands & wouldve been another big physical target in the redzone which is exactly where the Texans had issues.

I don't even think Kubiak was set on getting Martin, Posey, or Jean going until it was too late. Martin made mistakes early & started losing time. Jean never got going after his knee scope & Posey did not get his limited shot until the end of the season. Walter continued to be the starter week in & week out & when Martin started failing that's when Graham started emerging. Unfortunately, he was a bit inconsistent as well. I think it's just time to give the younger guys a true shot w/ legit playing time & that means removing Walter from the equation. I truly believe that at least 1 of them could've easily produced what Walter did, 500 yrds & 2 TD's, this season had they been given legit playing time.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 10:45 AM
I get a little upset at McNair saying we need a speed guy or play maker when Plaxico Burress was there for the taking. I'm hoping we at least made a call but something tells me we were going with the status quo since everything was working out earlier on. I don't think Plax would've been dominant from the get go but I believe he would've helped us down the stretch but we were too settled on getting Keyshawn Martin and Devier Posey experience.

:vincepalm: Aren't you tired of signing washed u, old wide outs? After all the failed attempts of washed up possession receivers Im ready for a big time young play maker.

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 10:56 AM
:vincepalm: Aren't you tired of signing washed u, old wide outs? After all the failed attempts of washed up possession receivers Im ready for a big time young play maker.

If the Texans got a young speed guy , AJ would become a Boldin like WR . The problem is the defense still wouldn't have to protect against the deep ball .

amazing80
01-21-2013, 11:11 AM
If the Texans got a young speed guy , AJ would become a Boldin like WR . The problem is the defense still wouldn't have to protect against the deep ball .

Umm, the point of a young speedy wide out is to create the deep ball and Dre still has the ability to go deep. Even without a speedy young option we ranked middle of the pack in the league in deep passes. Add a play maker and teams have to respect the deep ball even more, but still be honest vs Foster. It would open our offense up quite a bit.

Without a good option opposite Andre he still ranked 4th in deep passes (20 and 40 plus yarders) this season amongst wide outs. So why posters think we struggle getting open deep is beyond me.

Now if you want to say Schaub sucks throwing it deep and hampers our ability to improve upon that, Im all for it.

GNTLEWOLF
01-21-2013, 11:27 AM
Umm, the point of a young speedy wide out is to create the deep ball and Dre still has the ability to go deep. Even without a speedy young option we ranked middle of the pack in the league in deep passes. Add a play maker and teams have to respect the deep ball even more, but still be honest vs Foster. It would open our offense up quite a bit.

Without a good option opposite Andre he still ranked 4th in deep passes (20 and 40 plus yarders) this season amongst wide outs. So why posters think we struggle getting open deep is beyond me.

Now if you want to say Schaub sucks throwing it deep and hampers our ability to improve upon that, Im all for it.

The problem is...Schaub doesn't seem to have the ability to throw deep.

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 11:33 AM
Umm, the point of a young speedy wide out is to create the deep ball and Dre still has the ability to go deep. Even without a speedy young option we ranked middle of the pack in the league in deep passes. Add a play maker and teams have to respect the deep ball even more, but still be honest vs Foster. It would open our offense up quite a bit.

Without a good option opposite Andre he still ranked 4th in deep passes (20 and 40 plus yarders) this season amongst wide outs. So why posters think we struggle getting open deep is beyond me.

Now if you want to say Schaub sucks throwing it deep and hampers our ability to improve upon that, Im all for it.

A guy like Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith wouldn't be half the threat with the Texans .

amazing80
01-21-2013, 11:35 AM
A guy like Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith wouldn't be half the threat with the Texans .

well, I would say he is still a "threat" just would be used more of a decoy :snowday:

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 11:39 AM
well, I would say he is still a "threat" just would be used more of a decoy :snowday:

If the Texans can't use young fast guys then they need real tall guys so Matt can ally oop them . This is where Royce White comes in . It's a bunch less flying to deal with .

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 12:40 PM
I'm seeing two ends of the spectrum here.

Teams that repeatedly go one & done, like the Falcons, who finally have their breakthrough. Then there are teams like the Saints who can't seem to make the play-offs, then win it all once.

We're somewhere in the middle, back to back divisional round exits. Nothing to be ashamed about.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm seeing two ends of the spectrum here.

Teams that repeatedly go one & done, like the Falcons, who finally have their breakthrough. Then there are teams like the Saints who can't seem to make the play-offs, then win it all once.

We're somewhere in the middle, back to back divisional round exits. Nothing to be ashamed about.

If you are truly a Super Bowl contender like many claim you are & like many in the organization claim they are then the Divisional Round is NOT where you expect to make your exit considering thats only 1 round past the Wild Card game. AFC Championship exit is a little more acceptable for true Super Bowl contenders IMO.

Additionally, it's not that they lost games, that happens to everyone, it's HOW they lost their games. Being outplayed, outcoached, & completely embarrassed by the true contenders is what is so disappointing. Close games that were hard fought until the end & I'm sure the skepticism would be a bit less amongst the fans & media IMO.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:04 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

Lame poster, lying poster, and lame posts that suggest you could find another team like you said you would like to do a few weeks ago. The next post of yours should be very similar to this one.

Then maybe you should read more of my posts ...

Yes, maybe he'll find the one where you told someone to off themselves at Reliant. That would help your case some I'm sure. :kitten:

bckey
01-21-2013, 05:29 PM
Lame owner, lame coach, lame QB .... next year should be exciting!

Change owner to gm and you hit the trifecta. McNair is just excrutiatingly patient. Its becoming a fault instead of an asset. He is also as others have said "learning on the job". I doubt he learned this slow in business. I can't hate him but it is fairly aggrivating at times.




Lame poster, lying poster, and lame posts that suggest you could find another team like you said you would like to do a few weeks ago. The next post of yours should be very similar to this one.:includeme:

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:31 PM
Change owner to gm and you hit the trifecta. McNair is just excrutiatingly patient. Its becoming a fault instead of an asset. He is also as others have said "learning on the job". I doubt he learned this slow in business. I can't hate him but it is fairly aggrivating at times.




:includeme:

Maybe you can join him in finding another team as well.


some of us actually enjoyed this season and wanted us to win in the playoffs.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:04 PM
Change owner to gm and you hit the trifecta. McNair is just excrutiatingly patient. Its becoming a fault instead of an asset. He is also as others have said "learning on the job". I doubt he learned this slow in business. I can't hate him but it is fairly aggrivating at times.




:includeme:

McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

Double Barrel
01-21-2013, 06:07 PM
If someone had told me in January 2010 that Texans fans would be so bitter after a 12-4 season that won the division and won a playoff game, I would not have believed you.

In January 2010, the Texans had one winning season and no playoff history. Amazing what two years and success can bring to a fanbase...

steelbtexan
01-21-2013, 06:17 PM
Yes you can

BoB made a billion $$$$$ in a dacade and never made the playoffs.

This is the NFL it's a liscence to print $$$$$.

steelbtexan
01-21-2013, 06:18 PM
If someone had told me in January 2010 that Texans fans would be so bitter after a 12-4 season that won the division and won a playoff game, I would not have believed you.

In January 2010, the Texans had one winning season and no playoff history. Amazing what two years and success can bring to a fanbase...

I've been consistent throughout.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:25 PM
McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

You're talking to a guy that called a few of us dumbasses for being happy about the Texans winning in the playoffs. He isn't going to like anything about this team until they are somehow a SB winner most likely. Nothing else will ever be good enough.

I do understand a lot of the criticisms of Mcnair. I can't stand having the guy as our owner a lot of times, but I also realize that a ton of other owners have their own issues as well. Mcnair is a nice guy that loves having longevity. He trusts Kubiak with all he has. He loves the guy and loves working with him. Mcnair seems to me like he'll always want to reward people who he feels works really hard and is dedicated to this team regardless of what their progression is to a very large extent.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:28 PM
You're talking to a guy that called a few of us dumbasses for being happy about the Texans winning in the playoffs. He isn't going to like anything about this team until they are somehow a SB winner most likely. Nothing else will ever be good enough.

I do understand a lot of the criticisms of Mcnair. I can't stand having the guy as our owner a lot of times, but I also realize that a ton of other owners have their own issues as well. Mcnair is a nice guy that loves having longevity. He trusts Kubiak with all he has. He loves the guy and loves working with him. Mcnair seems to me like he'll always want to reward people who he feels works really hard and is dedicated to this team regardless of what their progression is to a very large extent.

Tex, I would like to think that a successful businessman knows how to find good people working for him.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:36 PM
Tex, I would like to think that a successful businessman knows how to find good people working for him.

I hate when people use this line to defend Mcnair. It has no play in the NFL. What Mcnair did in other businesses has nothing to do with the NFL at all.

That's like saying that I would be greatly successful owning a car wash, because I was so successful at owning a restaurant. Different businesses and totally different dynamics. What made Mcnair successful at another business or field is most likely not going to be the same thing that will make him successful as an owner of an NFL team.

Now I'm not trying to bash Mcnair either. THere are things that I do like and appreciate about the guy. I'm just saying that I do understand a lot of the criticisms one of which being that he is way to trusting to a fault and he seems to be afraid of change at all costs. It was pretty much proven that having to get a new HC when Kubiak should have been fired a few years ago was way to traumatic for him to do and that he wanted Gary at all costs. That hasn't exactly worked out to well, but at least we're having winning seasons now and playing in the playoffs. I'll take it if that is all we're going to get for now. I have a hard time thinking that we can ever win anything with Kubiak, but he is our coach either way. I have to support him and the team.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:50 PM
I hate when people use this line to defend Mcnair. It has no play in the NFL. What Mcnair did in other businesses has nothing to do with the NFL at all.

That's like saying that I would be greatly successful owning a car wash, because I was so successful at owning a restaurant. Different businesses and totally different dynamics. What made Mcnair successful at another business or field is most likely not going to be the same thing that will make him successful as an owner of an NFL team.

Now I'm not trying to bash Mcnair either. THere are things that I do like and appreciate about the guy. I'm just saying that I do understand a lot of the criticisms one of which being that he is way to trusting to a fault and he seems to be afraid of change at all costs. It was pretty much proven that having to get a new HC when Kubiak should have been fired a few years ago was way to traumatic for him to do and that he wanted Gary at all costs. That hasn't exactly worked out to well, but at least we're having winning seasons now and playing in the playoffs. I'll take it if that is all we're going to get for now. I have a hard time thinking that we can ever win anything with Kubiak, but he is our coach either way. I have to support him and the team.
To each his own.

It's good discussing with you Tex.
Later !

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:52 PM
To each his own.

It's good discussing with you Tex.
Later !

Likewise. See ya later partner. :fans:

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 08:44 PM
Close games that were hard fought until the end & I'm sure the skepticism would be a bit less amongst the fans & media IMO.

Oh I think they've earned every bit of the skepticism & criticism they've been getting.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 09:01 PM
Oh I think they've earned every bit of the skepticism & criticism they've been getting.

Was there any moral victory when they somehow find a way to lose in 2010?

Either way, they would hear it, wouldn't they?

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 09:01 PM
Change owner to gm and you hit the trifecta. McNair is just excrutiatingly patient. Its becoming a fault instead of an asset. He is also as others have said "learning on the job". I doubt he learned this slow in business. I can't hate him but it is fairly aggrivating at times.



I am as disappointed with our exit as anyone. However, I don't know that McNair is learning slowly, or if his patience is excruciating. He fired Capers after 4 years, I don't know if that was too long, actually I'd have been fine if he'd have dumped Casserly & kept Capers.

Either way, four years seems about right.

4 years later, the organization was completely overhauled & we had our first winning season.

Should have been in the play offs

I understand everyone thinks we've underachieved. Actually, everyone believes we've consistently under achieved. I wonder if we've just overestimated our team. We were who we were & the best they could do was below our expectations.

could have won sooner

I think we could have won sooner. Maybe I'm just as guilty as everyone else & overestimating our team. But I think we sacrificed winning at all costs for building the right way. At the time, I was ok with that. I think we're doing some of the same thing now. I'm not ok with that now.


4 years later we'll probably be in a Super Bowl, 4 years after that, we'll probably win it.

:koolaid:

But think about where the other expansion teams are now. No one wants to hear it, but that's the only way to judge this organization. We're not an expansion team any more, neither are they. But until this becomes a sought after destination for FA wanting to win a championship, we've still got a way to go.

bckey
01-21-2013, 10:04 PM
McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

I never said he was a bad businessman. Slow learning as an NFL football team owner. Big difference.

And I am not a bitter fan. Disappointed yes. I'm just tired of the same ol same ol in Houston. Fans making excuses as to why our team didn't meet expectations. They had a huge meltdown at the end of epic proportions and fans are fine with it. By golly they beat the Bengals. Should have been off that week. They should have been whoopin a$$ on the Ravens at Reliant in the championship game. Why should we believe they will do anything different in 2013 if everything remains the same? Overall record is nothing. Bring a Lombardi to Houston.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 10:11 PM
I never said he was a bad businessman. Slow learning as an NFL football team owner. Big difference.

And I am not a bitter fan. Disappointed yes. I'm just tired of the same ol same ol in Houston. Fans making excuses as to why our team didn't meet expectations. They had a huge meltdown at the end of epic proportions and fans are fine with it. By golly they beat the Bengals. Should have been off that week. They should have been whoopin a$$ on the Ravens at Reliant in the championship game. Why should we believe they will do anything different in 2013 if everything remains the same? Overall record is nothing. Bring a Lombardi to Houston.

Can't say I feel much different & agree 100%. :goodpost:

Premier
01-21-2013, 11:17 PM
If someone had told me in January 2010 that Texans fans would be so bitter after a 12-4 season that won the division and won a playoff game, I would not have believed you.

In January 2010, the Texans had one winning season and no playoff history. Amazing what two years and success can bring to a fanbase...


it has nothing to do with 2 years of success, weve been told for 4-5 years now that weve had a team ready for the playoffs. now were supposed to be content with 12-4 and getting blown out in the division round? lol wtf is that.. no fanbase should ever be content. when youre touted as a super bowl favorite and get embarrassed in the playoffs there is no silver lining, it was not a successful season, it was a failure..

GP
01-22-2013, 01:34 AM
McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

Product and team success are two different things.

One can be highly, continuously successful and bearing a bountiful harvest...while the other can languish and fall short of expectations.

10 times out of 10, a Super Bowl winning team is going to have automatic success in terms of being a cash cow. It's a natural consequence. What teams ever won the Super Bowl and then the following season saw its fan base shrink and regress in its spending on that team's products? I thought so.

But when a team can rake big bucks and never really produce a tried-and-true Super Bowl caliber team...a team who wins the Super Bowl or at least is playing in one...then this is more indicative of the team's savvy when it comes to providing 325 other "products" that the fan(s) enjoy and spend money upon.

I would love to see some sort of study and report that focuses on team's revenue and how it correlates to the mindset of a team's fan base. I think it's cultural to a large extent. I think certain areas of this country are more apt to function a certain way based on that area's cultural identity related to the sport being studied in the report.

In Texas, football is KING. We'll go nuts every year attending high school games, college games, and pro games: Three levels of football that Texas football fans relish with zeal year in and year out. We can tolerate a loser at one of those three levels because we often have a fall-back in one or more of the other two levels we're following. My Texans having a bad year is off-set by how my WTAMU Buffaloes almost made it to the championship game this year. We made it to the semi-finals. I had a fall-back "Option B" I could enjoy.

In California, I've heard many people say that football is popular but it's not nearly as big as it is in Texas and other more rural-minded states.

I think it'd be interesting if Grantland did a big article on this topic.

If anything, Bob McNair is a wise man because I bet his exploratory team--when he considered getting Houston another NFL franchise--did their homework and knew that Texas, of ANY state, would be the nearest thing to a sure-thing in terms of making a healthy profit off of fans come rain or shine. I'm not saying he's the devil and he's greedy. I'm saying he is SMART. Obviously.

In the Texas Panhandle region, in the early 1900s, the oil men hired geologists and even paleontologists ...they discovered that in the dinosaur age there were certain swamps and pools in certain areas of the Texas Panhandle--They knew where to drill and find large caches of dead dinosaurs...OIL!

Bob knew where to drill, folks. Smart man.

Scooter
01-22-2013, 07:43 AM
i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" schit. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

silentassassin
01-22-2013, 09:20 AM
Was there any moral victory when they somehow find a way to lose in 2010?

Either way, they would hear it, wouldn't they?

Exactly. I'm sure a lot of us weren't buying that "so close" thing back then. I don't understand how losing close games changes ANYTHING. They still lost the games they lost.

Situation is very binary for me. Winning vs. Losing, doesn't matter how it happens.

steelbtexan
01-22-2013, 11:36 AM
i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" ****. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

Glad your happy with the 12 wins.

This team with Gary/Matt in charge is as good as it's going to get. IMHO

They've reached their peak as currently constructed. Matt is not going to get better. (Injury)

If that's good enough for you so be it. For a growing number in the fanbase it's not good enough.

Double Barrel
01-22-2013, 11:40 AM
it has nothing to do with 2 years of success, weve been told for 4-5 years now that weve had a team ready for the playoffs. now were supposed to be content with 12-4 and getting blown out in the division round? lol wtf is that.. no fanbase should ever be content. when youre touted as a super bowl favorite and get embarrassed in the playoffs there is no silver lining, it was not a successful season, it was a failure..

You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

76Texan
01-22-2013, 12:01 PM
You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

MSR.

Or maybe think about the Cardinal fans.
Let's say somehow you stick with the team since its inception, all the way back to 1920 (nineteen twenty.)

No Lombardi trophy, a 6-7 play-offs record, and 209 games under .500 for the regular season.

How is that for "suffering", LOL.

Scooter
01-22-2013, 12:28 PM
Glad your happy with the 12 wins.

This team with Gary/Matt in charge is as good as it's going to get. IMHO

They've reached their peak as currently constructed. Matt is not going to get better. (Injury)

If that's good enough for you so be it. For a growing number in the fanbase it's not good enough.

our peak is 12 wins with favorable matchups against all but a couple of teams in the NFL. if that's "as good as it's going to get", i'm pretty sure being a fan of the texans is going to continue to be a lot of fun.

thunderkyss
01-22-2013, 02:48 PM
Can't we all just get along?

Hey, I hear Cushing's house is for sale.

Jules Winnfield
01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
sometimes loyalty isnt a good thing.

HOU-TEX
01-22-2013, 03:02 PM
You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

Great post, DB! I'm guilty of losing sight of this too at times. I reckon I was kinda miffed with the way the last 1/4 or so of the season went, but iiwii.

Double Barrel
01-22-2013, 03:12 PM
Great post, DB! I'm guilty of losing sight of this too at times. I reckon I was kinda miffed with the way the last 1/4 or so of the season went, but iiwii.

I'm certainly not above it all. None of us were happy with an 11-1 team blowing a chance at HFA. In the heat of the moment, we are all fans venting our perspectives.

But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

Rey
01-22-2013, 03:19 PM
I'm certainly not above it all. None of us were happy with an 11-1 team blowing a chance at HFA. In the heat of the moment, we are all fans venting our perspectives.

But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

I'm not going to lie...I'm not super optimistic going forward as I feel this team is slow to recognize and fix problems.

But as always I'm looking forward to off season changes/additions to the team and hopefully another year of learning experience for all involved.

Scooter
01-22-2013, 03:27 PM
But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

this is exactly it. noone likes how it ended, but like it does for 31 teams every year, it ends in disappointment. what we cant lose sight of is that this WAS a successful season and one that can certainly be built upon. we arent going to lose any key pieces this year, especially if we can keep quin. we're going to be significantly stronger simply for having a full year of experience for 3 of our budding offensive linemen, and we'll have an excess of young talent infused between our current two rookie wide receivers and rush linebacker, and a ton of draft picks. heck we may even be able to save some money for a future impact free agent with the current youth movement (again on a 12 win team).

BullNation4Life
01-22-2013, 04:25 PM
Look before everybody gets all giddy over the 12 wins, you have to look between the lines. 12 wins, great but what about the 4 losses? It's not the fact they had 4 loses, was never expecting a undefeated season, but look how they lost, hell look how they won.

a 3 game losing streak going into the playoffs..ok teams have done that before and come out ok BUT 1 TD in the red zone over 3 games? They go into Foxburough, get their head handed to them THEN go back and act like they have never seen the Patriots before.That is where my frustration comes into play and it now is no longer entertaining...

It is almost like watching your kid grow up and make the same damn mistakes you made, and you are helpless to do anything about it.You see it coming a mile away, and you hope that they see the light before it happens, then BAM, they walk right into what you hoped they would have avoided and there is nada you can do about it.

was the same way with the Texans this year, at least the last 7 weeks of the year...

Double Barrel
01-22-2013, 04:41 PM
I'm not going to lie...I'm not super optimistic going forward as I feel this team is slow to recognize and fix problems.

But as always I'm looking forward to off season changes/additions to the team and hopefully another year of learning experience for all involved.

I can respect that perspective. I'm not advocating anyone to pump sunshine.

Rather, just have some objectivity about it. We finally have a team that is winning more than losing and going to the playoffs. That, in and of itself, is a good thing

Now, can they maintain? That's the big question in the off-season.

I'm more of a reactive fan than proactive. I am not a fortune teller and cannot predict the future. So we'll wait and see and talk about the team's decisions in the meantime.

this is exactly it. noone likes how it ended, but like it does for 31 teams every year, it ends in disappointment. what we cant lose sight of is that this WAS a successful season and one that can certainly be built upon. we arent going to lose any key pieces this year, especially if we can keep quin. we're going to be significantly stronger simply for having a full year of experience for 3 of our budding offensive linemen, and we'll have an excess of young talent infused between our current two rookie wide receivers and rush linebacker, and a ton of draft picks. heck we may even be able to save some money for a future impact free agent with the current youth movement (again on a 12 win team).

Good post, man. MSR.

I think folks can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic. There is nothing inherently wrong with either one. I just choose to be optimistic about our team's success so far, mainly because I vividly remember 2-14 and the 9 craptacular seasons before 2011.

Look before everybody gets all giddy over the 12 wins, you have to look between the lines. 12 wins, great but what about the 4 losses? It's not the fact they had 4 loses, was never expecting a undefeated season, but look how they lost, hell look how they won.

a 3 game losing streak going into the playoffs..ok teams have done that before and come out ok BUT 1 TD in the red zone over 3 games? They go into Foxburough, get their head handed to them THEN go back and act like they have never seen the Patriots before.That is where my frustration comes into play and it now is no longer entertaining...

It is almost like watching your kid grow up and make the same damn mistakes you made, and you are helpless to do anything about it.You see it coming a mile away, and you hope that they see the light before it happens, then BAM, they walk right into what you hoped they would have avoided and there is nada you can do about it.

was the same way with the Texans this year, at least the last 7 weeks of the year...

Fair enough. I'm not telling anyone to be giddy. By the same token, don't act like it's nothing to get 12 wins in this league. I hated the way the season ended, as well. No way to sugar coat that letdown.

The Texans are still learning, regardless if we realize it or not. 2012 was the first time that they were the front runners for most of a season. That, in and of itself, is a new perspective for the franchise and this fanbase. I think that kind of media attention got in their heads, which manifested itself in a very ugly way on MNF at Foxboro. They got down on themselves as a team. It snowballed for a few more weeks and they lost a chance for HFA (another first for this young franchise).

Unfortunately, they let it get to them again in NE. And this is where they have to mature into a championship caliber team. Collectively, not just individuals, they have to believe in themselves and find that intangible quality to rise above a collection of individual players and become a team.

I think they are talented enough to beat a team like NE. The Patriots are not perfect, as vividly shown last Sunday. So now the Texans have to learn to play physical and push their will onto other good teams.

I'm not saying they can or cannot do it. I might lean certain ways, but none of us truly knows until it happens. But, I have no doubt that their failures will teach them and they will learn.

76Texan
01-22-2013, 04:44 PM
Can't we all just get along?

Hey, I hear Cushing's house is for sale.

Are you suggesting that they should move in together? J/k

76Texan
01-22-2013, 07:35 PM
I would be receptive to that for about two days ... anyone have a half dozen hogs I can borrow?

Would you take a dozen chicks over six hogs?

I bet you can just spread words about a party at Cushing's house and a lot of them would show up. :good::splits:

EllisUnit
01-22-2013, 07:37 PM
sometimes loyalty isnt a good thing.

My ex fiance would agree with you

76Texan
01-22-2013, 09:13 PM
According to the movie Snatch .... hogs do a better job in a more timely manner.

Baa hahahaha, you crack me up, dude.:mariopalm:

76Texan
01-22-2013, 09:23 PM
According to the movie Snatch .... hogs do a better job in a more timely manner.

Greedy as a Pig?
The last clip on there?

http://jaymckinnon.com/blog/movies/top-10-snatch-the-movie-moments

bckey
01-22-2013, 11:30 PM
i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" schit. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

Maybe McNairs insistance on Philips as dc but not his patience. Where we differ scooter is you are excited and giddy over 12 wins that led to a disasterous playoffs. I'm not. I think the 2011 Texans were better than the 2012 version. You are excited about next year because you think Kubiak is the right coach and can get us to the superbowl. I don't. And as for the pundits. None of them gave the Texans a chance in hell after the meltdown at the end of the season and rightfully so. The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.

I love the Texans and I want them to win probably worse than most on this board. I grew up close to the astrodome when it was just a hole in the ground. I have been rooting for Houston NFL football since the 60's. Fanhood is not a question. I want a winner. A superbowl winner. And I will ***** and moan when I think they are off track from obtaining that goal. Regular season victories are nice but they don't do squat for winning a superbowl. Win some big games Texans. Grow up!

Surreal McCoy
01-22-2013, 11:40 PM
The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.


Something neither of the Superbowl finalists have. Great point.

bckey
01-22-2013, 11:49 PM
Something neither of the Superbowl finalists have. Great point.

You missed the whole point. Do they have Kubiak as their hc? And I would argue that San Fran has a pretty damn good defense.

tru80texan
01-23-2013, 12:22 AM
Maybe McNairs insistance on Philips as dc but not his patience. Where we differ scooter is you are excited and giddy over 12 wins that led to a disasterous playoffs. I'm not. I think the 2011 Texans were better than the 2012 version. You are excited about next year because you think Kubiak is the right coach and can get us to the superbowl. I don't. And as for the pundits. None of them gave the Texans a chance in hell after the meltdown at the end of the season and rightfully so. The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.

I love the Texans and I want them to win probably worse than most on this board. I grew up close to the astrodome when it was just a hole in the ground. I have been rooting for Houston NFL football since the 60's. Fanhood is not a question. I want a winner. A superbowl winner. And I will ***** and moan when I think they are off track from obtaining that goal. Regular season victories are nice but they don't do squat for winning a superbowl. Win some big games Texans. Grow up!

No truer words could be spoken. Don't get me wrong, I too enjoyed the 12 wins but at the end of the day the late season slump made it all for not as it carried over into the playoffs. Despite the 12 wins many, fans & media, had doubts about this teams makeup & rightfully so. They simply didn't show up against the better teams & PROVE that they belonged amongst them & thus many in the media dubbed the Texans "frauds". Which, imo, is the biggest show of disrespect, but was hard to argue. Let's be honest, outside of the 2 additional regular season wins this team faired no better then last season. Both exited in the Divisional round after being #3 seeds & defeating Cincy. The only difference was the optimism exiting 2011 was 10x greater as opposed to the skepticism as they exited 2012. This team was suppose to look better & contend in 2012 for a Super Bowl. And by "contend" I don't mean simply making the playoffs. They didn't fulfill their own expectations, so why should we be satisfied. At some point the bar has to rise & we to have quit treating minor accomplishments, such as 2 additional reg season wins, as major steps for a team that wants to be acknowledged as one of the best. Plain & simple.

Hope I still qualify as a Texans fan after all that. LOL!

Surreal McCoy
01-23-2013, 03:18 AM
You missed the whole point. Do they have Kubiak as their hc? And I would argue that San Fran has a pretty damn good defense.

erm, no.

Ghostform
01-23-2013, 09:19 AM
erm, no.

Im pretty sure you missed the point. Step away from the koolaid for a minute and read it again. Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

Double Barrel
01-23-2013, 10:59 AM
What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

infantrycak
01-23-2013, 11:54 AM
What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

While getting your point and generally agreeing, one could argue Barry Switzer pretty persuasively.

thunderkyss
01-23-2013, 12:02 PM
Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

Do you believe that?

I don't know that we needed the defense to be elite, but that performance two weeks ago was far, far from elite.

The Ravens defense was struggling most of the year & ours was kicking butt & taking names over the first half of the year, up until they ran into an elite QB. Then I still believe they were more awestruck, than incapable of keeping the score down.

You can't stop an elite offense, just slow them down enough to give our offense an opportunity to keep up.

Our defense has played better than what we saw two weeks ago. I don't think it's too much to ask that they play closer to elite level than what they did.

silentassassin
01-23-2013, 12:30 PM
What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

Even if it's being said, I doubt it's truly believed.

Perhaps it's because Kubiak in recent years has done nothing that warrants or justifys a firing, so maybe it's their way of convincing themselves that he's "capable."

Until this team(hopefully not) begins trending downwards, of course.

Double Barrel
01-23-2013, 01:19 PM
While getting your point and generally agreeing, one could argue Barry Switzer pretty persuasively.

Understand your point, but that Cowboys team did lose the NFC championship game during his first year as HC. It's not like it was completely automatic. :fostering:

Surreal McCoy
01-23-2013, 02:18 PM
Im pretty sure you missed the point. Step away from the koolaid for a minute and read it again. Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

Two things:

1. You, and possibly GP, are the last two folks on earth that should lecture anyone on reading comprehension. I am being nice here...seriously.

2. You are completely off, on both the poster's statement, and my reply. ;)

ObsiWan
01-24-2013, 12:03 AM
I can respect that perspective. I'm not advocating anyone to pump sunshine.

Rather, just have some objectivity about it. We finally have a team that is winning more than losing and going to the playoffs. That, in and of itself, is a good thing

Now, can they maintain? That's the big question in the off-season.

I'm more of a reactive fan than proactive. I am not a fortune teller and cannot predict the future. So we'll wait and see and talk about the team's decisions in the meantime.



Good post, man. MSR.

I think folks can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic. There is nothing inherently wrong with either one. I just choose to be optimistic about our team's success so far, mainly because I vividly remember 2-14 and the 9 craptacular seasons before 2011.



Fair enough. I'm not telling anyone to be giddy. By the same token, don't act like it's nothing to get 12 wins in this league. I hated the way the season ended, as well. No way to sugar coat that letdown.

The Texans are still learning, regardless if we realize it or not. 2012 was the first time that they were the front runners for most of a season. That, in and of itself, is a new perspective for the franchise and this fanbase. I think that kind of media attention got in their heads, which manifested itself in a very ugly way on MNF at Foxboro. They got down on themselves as a team. It snowballed for a few more weeks and they lost a chance for HFA (another first for this young franchise).

Unfortunately, they let it get to them again in NE. And this is where they have to mature into a championship caliber team. Collectively, not just individuals, they have to believe in themselves and find that intangible quality to rise above a collection of individual players and become a team.

I think they are talented enough to beat a team like NE. The Patriots are not perfect, as vividly shown last Sunday. So now the Texans have to learn to play physical and push their will onto other good teams.

I'm not saying they can or cannot do it. I might lean certain ways, but none of us truly knows until it happens. But, I have no doubt that their failures will teach them and they will learn.

Careful. Rational, sober posts are not always welcome here.
:D
Repped

Surreal McCoy
01-24-2013, 03:33 AM
What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

That is indeed their premise and sincere hope. It's not about the success of the franchise, it's entirely about the success of their ideas. Fortunately most NFL franchises don't allow the fans to make important decisions, well at least not any franchise outside Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Arizona, Miami, Chicago, KC, Carolina, etc etc...

MSR

infantrycak
01-24-2013, 07:17 AM
Understand your point, but that Cowboys team did lose the NFC championship game during his first year as HC. It's not like it was completely automatic. :fostering:

SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

HoustonFrog
01-24-2013, 08:54 AM
SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

And this is why we are still trying to win again 16 years later. Jerry being Jerry. He stated in an interview that he could find 500 coaches to win the SBs. So then he had to prove it. Just like he is still trying to prove that he can GM. Frustrating.

Double Barrel
01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

The recent "A Football Life" about Jimmy Johnson was very revealing in that regard. Many of those players sound like they still hold a grudge against Jerry Jones. And I believe those players when they feel cheated because they could have won more Super Bowls under Johnson.

Seeing the history between Jones, Johnson, and Switzer from Arkansas was interesting, and I think Jones was a bit vindictive in hiring Switzer to take over Johnson's team.

It makes sense about Aikman. That was Johnson's team that he built, and Switzer is that "exception to a rule" about a team winning in spite of it's head coach. He did not contribute to that team, but instead rode it's coattails. He wasn't even on the staff when he was hired. His 6-10 record in his fourth year says it all.

GP
01-25-2013, 09:48 AM
Back to Gary Ball now.

If there is anything that signals that this team is in trouble for the future, it's how we settled for FGs so often down the stretch.

We're all pretty in-tune with this team's ebb and flow, and so somebody please tell me what the running joke was--in the game day threads--the last month of the season?

Answers vary, but have the same tone:

"Dialing up a 3 burger in 3...2...1!"

"Here we go guys, we're in FG range now. Yessss!"

"Shocker, another FG."

Defenses, IMO, know that they can let Gary Ball defeat itself. Let it get down to the RZ, then tighten up your coverage and bottle up Foster...because for whatever reason, be it play calling or a lack of focus/killer instinct by the players, the offense rarely punches it into the EZ unless the defense has a complete lapse of awareness, i.e. "Beating up on the weak sisters" theory.

But hey, JJ Watt and our defense will turn around and get that ball back for Matt and boys. Oops, I forgot: That's not always automatic.

I think we COULD be in for a rude awakening in 2013. AJ will be a year older. We've lost Posey who was arguably our up-and-coming WR who has the hands, the route running, and the attitude when he catches the ball to do something with it. Who the hell knows, with certainty, if the OL will "gel" or not. Owen is beginning to battle weekly injuries. Garrett Graham is an unknown. We don't use Casey, and my gawd can you imagine this guy on a team like the Patriots??? Special teams will be Marciano's handiwork all over again, bank on it.

That leaves with the defense, and those guys were straight BLOWN UP in the middle...all the ILB injuries we sustained, which started with Cushing and went like dominoes thereafter. Brady James was a really bad gamble by Wade. He let his heart dictate his decision making there. JJ Watt needs help, and I don't think this team brings Antonio Smith back. I can see them putting Mitchell in his spot, then finding a NT solution out of thin air somehow.

Sorry to be a negative nelly, but this team--under the current leadership and facing the problems I stated above--I think we're in for a .500 season or slightly better, and I think we could even end up fighting for a WC playoff spot because I think the Colts retake the AFCS in 2013. Might be wrong, we might have a repeat of 2012 where we win the AFCS and the Colts get the WC spot again.

I just know that this team was settling for FGs the last month of the season, maybe with the exception of that last Titans game whereby the Titans royally handed us that game on a platter all day long. That's a look into the mindset of this team's character, specifically its genius HC Gary Kubiak. Settling for FGs, then expecting Wade to work his magic. Then coming back and...settling for FGs again. The white flag wasn't just waved in the Patriots game, it was still flapping in the wind the rest of the way (with the exception of the Bengals playoff game).

thunderkyss
01-25-2013, 12:05 PM
Back to Gary Ball now.

If there is anything that signals that this team is in trouble for the future, it's how we settled for FGs so often down the stretch.

We're all pretty in-tune with this team's ebb and flow, and so somebody please tell me what the running joke was--in the game day threads--the last month of the season?

Answers vary, but have the same tone:

"Dialing up a 3 burger in 3...2...1!"

"Here we go guys, we're in FG range now. Yessss!"

"Shocker, another FG."


We had red zone issues before Dennison got here. That was one of the things Dennison was supposed to help us figure out.

Our Red zone weapon of choice had been Arian Foster, who up until week 12 or 13 was getting into the endzone as well as anyone.

The only thing I can think of that changed, was that Ryan Harris got more playing time because Newton got hurt.

CloakNNNdagger
01-25-2013, 12:14 PM
Special teams will be Marciano's handiwork all over again, bank on it.



John McClain has already confirmed that last week on his 610 segment.:mariopalm:

Double Barrel
01-25-2013, 12:36 PM
John McClain has already confirmed that last week on his 610 segment.:mariopalm:

This honestly makes me question some fundamental aspects of this front office.

Status quo is not going to make this team better.

In the words of Frank Zappa: "'Progress is not possible without deviation."

Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic about 2013. However, that's a fragile perspective, because there is nothing convincing that this team can repeat a 12 win season, all things considered.

Not making a crappy special teams unit upgrade is a bad sign for the future, IMO. Where is the accountability???

thunderkyss
01-25-2013, 12:58 PM
This honestly makes me question some fundamental aspects of this front office.

Status quo is not going to make this team better.

In the words of Frank Zappa: "'Progress is not possible without deviation."

Not making a crappy special teams unit upgrade is a bad sign for the future, IMO. Where is the accountability???

Personally, I never believed that firing someone is an instant upgrade. I also never believed that is the only way to hold someone accountable.

I don't know what this FO is thinking. I don't know that Joe Marciano is coming back as ST coach. But if he was, I don't know that I would have a problem with that.

This organization is already facing criticism because we released two of the most electric kick returners of the 2012 season, while fielding one of the worse special teams.

The question I would ask is, "is Joe M a good coach or not?" If I believe he's a good coach, he's not going anywhere. If I do not have faith in him, he's gone.

Our opinion of Coach Joe may be very different than theirs for valid reasons. We only see what we see & they see a whole lot more.

There was a time when Special Teams was the only good part of this team. As both the offense & the defense improved, Special Teams progressively got worse.

Is Coach Joe picking his players, or is he being told what he will work with? That could be the biggest part of the problem right there.

Our STs in the play offs wasn't too shabby, once they got starters & other role players on ST.

So I'd be more worried about how they approach ST more than if there is a coaching change or not.

Double Barrel
01-25-2013, 03:24 PM
Personally, I never believed that firing someone is an instant upgrade. I also never believed that is the only way to hold someone accountable.

I don't know what this FO is thinking. I don't know that Joe Marciano is coming back as ST coach. But if he was, I don't know that I would have a problem with that.

This organization is already facing criticism because we released two of the most electric kick returners of the 2012 season, while fielding one of the worse special teams.

The question I would ask is, "is Joe M a good coach or not?" If I believe he's a good coach, he's not going anywhere. If I do not have faith in him, he's gone.

Our opinion of Coach Joe may be very different than theirs for valid reasons. We only see what we see & they see a whole lot more.

There was a time when Special Teams was the only good part of this team. As both the offense & the defense improved, Special Teams progressively got worse.

Is Coach Joe picking his players, or is he being told what he will work with? That could be the biggest part of the problem right there.

Our STs in the play offs wasn't too shabby, once they got starters & other role players on ST.

So I'd be more worried about how they approach ST more than if there is a coaching change or not.

The bolded pretty much speaks for itself regarding coach Joe.

The NFL is a results driven business. The fact that our special teams has become a huge liability is quite evident. Teams often replace good coaches because the players need a wake-up call.

You are right in that we can only see what we see, but what we see is the end product. Our average starting position was one of the worst in the NFL, iirc. That is additional strain on our offense where it should be giving them an advantage.

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

silentassassin
01-25-2013, 03:39 PM
The bolded pretty much speaks for itself regarding coach Joe.

The NFL is a results driven business. The fact that our special teams has become a huge liability is quite evident. Teams often replace good coaches because the players need a wake-up call.

You are right in that we can only see what we see, but what we see is the end product. Our average starting position was one of the worst in the NFL, iirc. That is additional strain on our offense where it should be giving them an advantage.

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

I'd say it's our HC's perceived unwillingness to let go of his guy. I understand Marciano has been here from the beginning, but I'd assume at this point, he's a guy Kubiak fully trusts and believes in.

None of us(I think) know what went on behind the scenes after the 2010 season, but I'm sure many believe Kubiak was almost goaded by Bob McNair to make the move and bring Wade Phillips in. You can argue it the other way too and say that the historically bad defensive results were enough to convince Kubiak to do it himself(but I doubt this).

So I guess the short answer is that they're possibly keeping him because that's just the kind of guy Kubiak is.

thunderkyss
01-25-2013, 04:05 PM
What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

If they keep him, then they believe he is a good coach & was put in a corner by decisions made above his paygrade. For all I know, Jacoby Jones & Trindon Holliday were the only players he wanted on special teams & they were the two Kubiak cut for reasons not pertaining to special teams.

Jacoby got cut because Kubiak was pissed that he muffed the punt or they had to get under the salary cap.

Trindon was cut because they needed the roster spot for someone who didn't finish the season on the active roster.

Most likely he wanted Ball, Braman, & if I remember, McMannis was pretty good too.

& he got stuck with Earl Mitchell.

CloakNNNdagger
01-25-2013, 07:34 PM
What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

Same thing that kept HWWNBN so long.

I'd say it's our HC's perceived unwillingness to let go of his guy. I understand Marciano has been here from the beginning, but I'd assume at this point, he's a guy Kubiak fully trusts and believes in.

None of us(I think) know what went on behind the scenes after the 2010 season, but I'm sure many believe Kubiak was almost goaded by Bob McNair to make the move and bring Wade Phillips in. You can argue it the other way too and say that the historically bad defensive results were enough to convince Kubiak to do it himself(but I doubt this).

So I guess the short answer is that they're possibly keeping him because that's just the kind of guy Kubiak is.

Marciano has not been able to adjust his scheme ever since his loss of the "wedge." Many a coach have lost their "edge" and their jobs for much the same reason.......because they could not adapt. It however is up to those above to be able to recognize such things and act on it accordingly....in a timely fashion......as most great teams do.

dream_team
01-25-2013, 07:59 PM
If they keep him, then they believe he is a good coach & was put in a corner by decisions made above his paygrade. For all I know, Jacoby Jones & Trindon Holliday were the only players he wanted on special teams & they were the two Kubiak cut for reasons not pertaining to special teams.

Jacoby got cut because Kubiak was pissed that he muffed the punt or they had to get under the salary cap.

Trindon was cut because they needed the roster spot for someone who didn't finish the season on the active roster.

Most likely he wanted Ball, Braman, & if I remember, McMannis was pretty good too.

& he got stuck with Earl Mitchell.

Actually we ALL (including us fans) wanted Jacoby cut from this team. We have only ourselves to blame for letting a pro bowl kick returner go to another team.

But like what others are saying, we only see game time... we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

At the same time, we had one of the worst STs in the league. Our team won't be that much different from last season, so it's hard to believe we'll get better in this regard. So I'm all for changing the coach. What's the worst that can happen? We rank last in STs? Oh wait... we're already there.

Surreal McCoy
01-26-2013, 02:31 AM
Actually we ALL (including us fans) wanted Jacoby cut from this team. We have only ourselves to blame for letting a pro bowl kick returner go to another team.

But like what others are saying, we only see game time... we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

At the same time, we had one of the worst STs in the league. Our team won't be that much different from last season, so it's hard to believe we'll get better in this regard. So I'm all for changing the coach. What's the worst that can happen? We rank last in STs? Oh wait... we're already there.

This may be true, but if you didn't fully expect Jacoby to drop that pass from Flacco then you either didn't watch him play much, or are lying. I don't think you're a liar so it must be the former. ;) I was already laughing about the inevitable drop when I saw it was #12 waiting on the ball.

PS - Good for him and the Ravens. Was time for a change and we're both better off.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2013, 09:36 AM
The Texans front office moves like a glacier .

The Texans are committed to Kubiak's idea of what football should be . It's a finesse type running offense with a short to medium passing game based on play action to dominate the time of possession .

The problem is it's scheme over talent so when it comes down to having to make a play , there's not a bunch of physical mismatches . :foottap:

GP
01-26-2013, 10:43 AM
The Texans front office moves like a glacier .

The Texans are committed to Kubiak's idea of what football should . It's a finesse type running offense with a short to medium passing game based on play action to dominate the time of possession .

The problem is it's scheme over talent so when it comes down to having to make a play , there's not a bunch of physical mismatches . :foottap:

Probably the most succinct, and descriptive explanation yet.

:clap:

dream_team
01-26-2013, 11:06 AM
The Texans front office moves like a glacier .

The Texans are committed to Kubiak's idea of what football should be . It's a finesse type running offense with a short to medium passing game based on play action to dominate the time of possession .

The problem is it's scheme over talent so when it comes down to having to make a play , there's not a bunch of physical mismatches . :foottap:

Our offense is a west coast style offense, with a zone running scheme, and throws alot of play action to keep the defense honest. IMO, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this scheme. In regards to points scored per game, we have been top 10 for the past 4 seasons. In regards to yards, we have been top 10 in 4 of the last 5 seasons (last year, we missed top 10 by 4 yards a game most likely due to our situation at QB).

I have more of a concern with Kubiak's ability to make in-game adjustments, lack of creativity in the red-zone, and the FO's lack of investing talent in the offense.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2013, 11:19 AM
Our offense is a west coast style offense, with a zone running scheme, and throws alot of play action to keep the defense honest. IMO, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this scheme. In regards to points scored per game, we have been top 10 for the past 4 seasons. In regards to yards, we have been top 10 in 4 of the last 5 seasons (last year, we missed top 10 by 4 yards a game most likely due to our situation at QB).

I have more of a concern with Kubiak's ability to make in-game adjustments, lack of creativity in the red-zone, and the FO's lack of investing talent in the offense.

West Coast and zone blocking are not exactly smash mouth football .

We score a bunch except when they need to . Why is this ... Cause a dominant fat guy in the middle kills the Texans . A shutdown CB hurts bad because it slows AJ . A team with both is the Texans offense's kryptonite . :voodoo:

infantrycak
01-26-2013, 12:30 PM
In regards to yards, we have been top 10 in 4 of the last 5 seasons (last year, we missed top 10 by 4 yards a game most likely due to our situation at QB).

Our running game averaged 20.3 yards per game less (coincidentally the passing game averaged 20.3 yards per game more) and you are blaming the QB?

thunderkyss
01-26-2013, 12:34 PM
This may be true, but if you didn't fully expect Jacoby to drop that pass from Flacco then you either didn't watch him play much, or are lying.

emm...... it's not like he dropped every pass thrown his way when he was here. Like other receivers, he dropped some, he caught some. That was the second time they went to him, the first time he dropped it. The second one... he was due.

Wolf
01-26-2013, 08:29 PM
Jacoby wasn't going to do squat in the return game if he stayed here. Too many block in the back penalties would nullify any returns.

I imagine special teams will still suck and then in playoff time(if we get there) we will stick manning back there again

thunderkyss
01-27-2013, 02:25 AM
In regards to yards, we have been top 10 in 4 of the last 5 seasons (last year, we missed top 10 by 4 yards a game most likely due to our situation at QB).


After reading this, I decided to do a little research. Didn't come up with anything relevant, but I did notice something.

Only 5 top ten QBs, in passing yards, were in the play offs. Brady, Ryan, Manning, Luck, Rogers..... Four of the 5 made it to the divisional round. 2 made it to the Conference Championship round. None of them made it to the Super Bowl.

Same stats, only 2 top 5 QBs were in the play offs. Brady & Ryan. both made it to the Conference Championship.

The top 3 QBs from 2012, Brees, Stafford, Romo, were on non winning teams (Cowboys 8-8 was the best of the bunch). The top 10 QBs that didn't make the play offs, Brees, Stafford, Romo, Freeman, Palmer, Also on losing teams.

Doesn't mean anything...... just thought it was interesting.

dream_team
01-27-2013, 04:08 AM
Our running game averaged 20.3 yards per game less (coincidentally the passing game averaged 20.3 yards per game more) and you are blaming the QB?

I was referring to last season.

While Schaub was the QB, we averaged 158.1 rushing and 238.1 passing.

Without Schaub we averaged 144.5 rushing and 187.5 passing. I didn't include playoffs in those stats, or else the rushing average would be even higher, and passing lower.

So yes, I say losing our QBs hurt our offensive yards stats.

My point was we would have most likely been top 10 in offensive yards last season as well if it wasn't for losing two QBs.

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 08:42 AM
The Texans front office moves like a glacier .

The Texans are committed to Kubiak's idea of what football should be . It's a finesse type running offense with a short to medium passing game based on play action to dominate the time of possession .

The problem is it's scheme over talent so when it comes down to having to make a play , there's not a bunch of physical mismatches . :foottap:

Personally, I think this is the result of having crap defensive coordinators who couldn't develop talent. Since Kubiak got here, the majority of our FA signings & high draft picks have gone to the defensive side of the ball & he's been able to field a competent offense with lesser talent.

I was hoping with Wade, we would be able to develop someone like Tim Jamison, Jared Crick, Darryl Sharpton, & Glover Quin (good job there, but I'm thinking that's more on the player than the coaches).

We're not going to possess the majority of mismatches until we invest some talent on the offensive side of the ball. All those pro bowlers are great & a testament to Kubiak & his system, but for many of those guys, the Pro Bowl is probably going to be the highlight of their career & we need guys who expect more.

GP
01-28-2013, 02:44 PM
After reading this, I decided to do a little research. Didn't come up with anything relevant, but I did notice something.

Only 5 top ten QBs, in passing yards, were in the play offs. Brady, Ryan, Manning, Luck, Rogers..... Four of the 5 made it to the divisional round. 2 made it to the Conference Championship round. None of them made it to the Super Bowl.

Same stats, only 2 top 5 QBs were in the play offs. Brady & Ryan. both made it to the Conference Championship.

The top 3 QBs from 2012, Brees, Stafford, Romo, were on non winning teams (Cowboys 8-8 was the best of the bunch). The top 10 QBs that didn't make the play offs, Brees, Stafford, Romo, Freeman, Palmer, Also on losing teams.

Doesn't mean anything...... just thought it was interesting.

Wow. So uh, like where do QBs like Manning, Brees, and Brady fit into the past 10 years of Conference Championship games and Super Bowls--rather than just THIS year? Cuz they were always there year in and year out to one degree or another. For about a decade.

We're out in the 2nd round two years in a row, one of which Schaub wasn't even the QB.

Question: How much longer do you think Schaub can consistently make the playoffs AND get to a single AFCC game and even at least ONE Super Bowl? Be honest.

My answer: Less probable than the elite QBs you listed, many of whom have already done just that multiple times already.

The NFL is all about probability. Odds. If I'm in Vegas, I'm playing the games that give me the best odds over the house. In the NFL, your team has better odds if it has a better QB. Why can't this just be settled and left alone? Isn't it true? Doesn't a team whose QB is Drew Brees or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady give you a better probable, statistical CHANCE at advancing to the Super Bowl than a team whose QB is Matt Schaub??? On the strict issue of ODDS alone?

GP
01-28-2013, 02:46 PM
TK, that post of yours strikes me as a "Well, maybe we CAN win even without an elite QB at the wheel..."

Sure, there will sometimes be an exception to the rule. But being the rule is a lot easier than hoping you're the exception. That goes for anything in life, btw.

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2013, 03:28 PM
Personally, I think this is the result of having crap defensive coordinators who couldn't develop talent. Since Kubiak got here, the majority of our FA signings & high draft picks have gone to the defensive side of the ball & he's been able to field a competent offense with lesser talent.

I was hoping with Wade, we would be able to develop someone like Tim Jamison, Jared Crick, Darryl Sharpton, & Glover Quin (good job there, but I'm thinking that's more on the player than the coaches).

We're not going to possess the majority of mismatches until we invest some talent on the offensive side of the ball. All those pro bowlers are great & a testament to Kubiak & his system, but for many of those guys, the Pro Bowl is probably going to be the highlight of their career & we need guys who expect more.

What ... Richard Sherman wasn't good ?:mcnugget:

You have a point but I've posted somewhere that the Broncos of the late 90's offense had Terrell Davis late round pick , Rod Smith UFA, Ed McCaffery 4th rd by Giants , Shannon Sharpe late pick , Tom Nalen 7th rd , Gary Zimmer traded a 1 and 2 for him , and John Elway older QB.

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
Wow. So uh, like where do QBs like Manning, Brees, and Brady fit into the past 10 years of Conference Championship games and Super Bowls--rather than just THIS year? Cuz they were always there year in and year out to one degree or another. For about a decade.

I don't know. Why don't you look it up & tell us what you find?

We're out in the 2nd round two years in a row, one of which Schaub wasn't even the QB.

... :thinking:

Question: How much longer do you think Schaub can consistently make the playoffs AND get to a single AFCC game and even at least ONE Super Bowl? Be honest.

I honestly think we'll be in the play-offs the next three years, I can't really see too much beyond that.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the AFCCG next year & a Super Bowl win as well.

My answer: Less probable than the elite QBs you listed, many of whom have already done just that multiple times already.

I'll answer this later.

The NFL is all about probability. Odds. If I'm in Vegas, I'm playing the games that give me the best odds over the house. In the NFL, your team has better odds if it has a better QB. Why can't this just be settled and left alone? Isn't it true? Doesn't a team whose QB is Drew Brees or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady give you a better probable, statistical CHANCE at advancing to the Super Bowl than a team whose QB is Matt Schaub??? On the strict issue of ODDS alone?


TK, that post of yours strikes me as a "Well, maybe we CAN win even without an elite QB at the wheel..."

Sure, there will sometimes be an exception to the rule. But being the rule is a lot easier than hoping you're the exception. That goes for anything in life, btw.

When I said "doesn't mean anything.... just thought it was interesting" I meant just that. I wasn't trying to elude that we don't need a special QB to win a Super Bowl & I agree with you that the odds are in our favor if we had a special QB.

But since you brought it up, I'm not sold that Matt isn't a special QB. Sure he's not mobile, and is laughable outside the pocket. But we've seen him play at a high level for several years now. I've always said that the only thing separating Matt from the "special" QBs is the Ws.. he just doesn't have enough of them.

That's changing. His win percentage has been extremely high the last couple of years & I don't expect that to change. He's got a good team around him & as long as he continues to do his part, which I believe is a little more than "game manager" he'll get there.

I've argued against the guys who said that he lost whatever he had, because of his foot. I don't see that at all. He's the same guy he's always been. Chokes under the big lights.... yup.. but so did Flacco, so did Ryan. So does Foster, so does a lot of guys on our team.

Matt is not "my kind" of QB. I'd take Romo in a heartbeat. But I still think Matt can take us where we want to go.

Haven't seen anything to say any different.

I know some of you guys don't like to compare Schaub to elite players. It hurts your arguments & all.... but if you go back & watch what Brady did in that Baltimore game. You could have put Schaub in there & wouldn't have seen a difference.

drs23
01-28-2013, 06:22 PM
Product and team success are two different things.

One can be highly, continuously successful and bearing a bountiful harvest...while the other can languish and fall short of expectations.

10 times out of 10, a Super Bowl winning team is going to have automatic success in terms of being a cash cow. It's a natural consequence. What teams ever won the Super Bowl and then the following season saw its fan base shrink and regress in its spending on that team's products? I thought so.

But when a team can rake big bucks and never really produce a tried-and-true Super Bowl caliber team...a team who wins the Super Bowl or at least is playing in one...then this is more indicative of the team's savvy when it comes to providing 325 other "products" that the fan(s) enjoy and spend money upon.

I would love to see some sort of study and report that focuses on team's revenue and how it correlates to the mindset of a team's fan base. I think it's cultural to a large extent. I think certain areas of this country are more apt to function a certain way based on that area's cultural identity related to the sport being studied in the report.

In Texas, football is KING. We'll go nuts every year attending high school games, college games, and pro games: Three levels of football that Texas football fans relish with zeal year in and year out. We can tolerate a loser at one of those three levels because we often have a fall-back in one or more of the other two levels we're following. My Texans having a bad year is off-set by how my WTAMU Buffaloes almost made it to the championship game this year. We made it to the semi-finals. I had a fall-back "Option B" I could enjoy.

In California, I've heard many people say that football is popular but it's not nearly as big as it is in Texas and other more rural-minded states.

I think it'd be interesting if Grantland did a big article on this topic.

If anything, Bob McNair is a wise man because I bet his exploratory team--when he considered getting Houston another NFL franchise--did their homework and knew that Texas, of ANY state, would be the nearest thing to a sure-thing in terms of making a healthy profit off of fans come rain or shine. I'm not saying he's the devil and he's greedy. I'm saying he is SMART. Obviously.

In the Texas Panhandle region, in the early 1900s, the oil men hired geologists and even paleontologists ...they discovered that in the dinosaur age there were certain swamps and pools in certain areas of the Texas Panhandle--They knew where to drill and find large caches of dead dinosaurs...OIL!

Bob knew where to drill, folks. Smart man.

Extremely late to this post but an excellent analogy GP.

MSR

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 07:23 PM
What ... Richard Sherman wasn't good ?:mcnugget:

You have a point but I've posted somewhere that the Broncos of the late 90's offense had Terrell Davis late round pick , Rod Smith UFA, Ed McCaffery 4th rd by Giants , Shannon Sharpe late pick , Tom Nalen 7th rd , Gary Zimmer traded a 1 and 2 for him , and John Elway older QB.

& how many times did those Broncos get to the play offs without reaching the Super Bowl?

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2013, 07:28 PM
& how many times did those Broncos get to the play offs without reaching the Super Bowl?

Those guys except for Elway were 2 for 2 .

tru80texan
03-20-2013, 12:54 PM
McNair thinks this team is being shaped up to being better then last seasons team...really? Read why...http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texans%20owner%20says%20texans%20will%20play%20i n%20superbowl&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.houstonchronicle.com%2Fsports %2Ftexans%2Farticle%2FTexans-owner-McNair-maintains-faith-in-plan-team-4368649.php&ei=yeVJUbOHIYa28wSYloDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEEq-wy5rRsKJkUHoKwRjvpT0PnRw&bvm=bv.44011176,d.eWU

Now I appreciate McNair's take most of the time because he has pointed his GM & HC in the right direction after they couldnt quite figure out some personnel decisions, BUT thinking the Texans are in better position to go to the Super Bowl this season compared to last seems a bit far fetched IMO. I'm not sure if McNair is just trying put something out to the fans to calm the storm as holes are being created on the team & payments for season tickets are being requested, but I can't seriously believe that this team is better then last simply because the owner says so. It could just be me, but the lack of a starting S, ILB, FB, & even P coupled w/ an ailing RT just doesn't make me feel like it's a Super Bowl or bust season. Thoughts???

thunderkyss
03-20-2013, 01:10 PM
McNair thinks this team is being shaped up to being better then last seasons team...really? Read why...http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texans%20owner%20says%20texans%20will%20play%20i n%20superbowl&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.houstonchronicle.com%2Fsports %2Ftexans%2Farticle%2FTexans-owner-McNair-maintains-faith-in-plan-team-4368649.php&ei=yeVJUbOHIYa28wSYloDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEEq-wy5rRsKJkUHoKwRjvpT0PnRw&bvm=bv.44011176,d.eWU

Thoughts???

Well, he didn't say we're shaping up to be a better team. He said he's more confident this year that we'll win the Super Bowl than he was last year. He cited being mentally tougher as being the main reason; being there before, gaining experience, that kind of thing.

"We had a lot of players that didn't make plays when they had the opportunity in the playoffs," McNair said. "This thing is a process, and the playoffs are different than regular season. I think the players have to go through that and understand it.

"Everybody picks up their game. You better bring your 'A' game. I know it's easy to say that, but now the players have seen it for the last two years and know what to expect.

"Mentally, we're developing a toughness you have to have."

Read more: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-owner-McNair-maintains-faith-in-plan-team-4368649.php#ixzz2O6J1IxIi



Honestly, there's no doubt in my mind that he has a better grasp on how things are in the NFL than most of our fans.

Last year, they lost players like outside linebacker Mario Williams, tight end Joel Dreessen, inside linebacker DeMeco Ryans, offensive tackle Eric Winston, receiver Jacoby Jones and cornerback Jason Allen. They still improved by two games over the 2011 season, despite going 1-3 down the stretch.

McNair doesn't like losing players, but he accepts it as reality in the salary-cap world. He knows fans and the media are howling for general manager Rick Smith to sign some free agents.

"I don't panic," McNair said. "We have a plan. We're executing our plan.

Read more: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-owner-McNair-maintains-faith-in-plan-team-4368649.php#ixzz2O6JeNqU4

tru80texan
03-20-2013, 01:28 PM
Well, he didn't say we're shaping up to be a better team. He said he's more confident this year that we'll win the Super Bowl than he was last year. He cited being mentally tougher as being the main reason; being there before, gaining experience, that kind of thing.




Honestly, there's no doubt in my mind that he has a better grasp on how things are in the NFL than most of our fans.



With that being said, do you buy it? Do you believe a team that has newly acquired holes & needs simply increases it's chances of being a Super Bowl because the remaining players gained playoff experience? I think talent level of the team is a key factor & that is something I believe the Texans team has recently dropped off a bit in based of it's recent player losses. Granted we don't know what the end of free agency or the draft will bring to the team, but as the team stands now it seems a bit of a reach to assume this is a Super Bowl team because of playoff experience gained.

Thorn
03-20-2013, 01:30 PM
Well, he didn't say we're shaping up to be a better team. He said he's more confident this year that we'll win the Super Bowl than he was last year. He cited being mentally tougher as being the main reason; being there before, gaining experience, that kind of thing.


Honestly, there's no doubt in my mind that he has a better grasp on how things are in the NFL than most of our fans.



The Texans will be in the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row. This is not a four or five win team, but a playoff team. How deep into the playoffs they go is anyone's guess, and at this point they have as much chance as anyone else to be in the next Super Bowl.

There is NO reason not to be excited for the upcoming season, whatever our beefs are about the team or players. And most assuredly I have some beefs. LOL

Insideop
03-20-2013, 01:37 PM
Well, he didn't say we're shaping up to be a better team. He said he's more confident this year that we'll win the Super Bowl than he was last year. He cited being mentally tougher as being the main reason; being there before, gaining experience, that kind of thing.




Honestly, there's no doubt in my mind that he has a better grasp on how things are in the NFL than most of our fans.



After reading this MB, and others like it, I can understand why you feel this way. :)

GP
03-20-2013, 01:39 PM
Oh we're in for a tough year, for sure.

There are glaring holes, and a major weakness at QB all of a sudden.

Of course, he'll be setting the NFL world on fire his first 6 or 8 games, and then the real sketchy part begins...can he raise his own game?

I think the division crown comes down to the final three weeks of the season.

thunderkyss
03-20-2013, 01:58 PM
With that being said, do you buy it?

Granted we don't know what the end of free agency or the draft will bring to the team, but as the team stands now it seems a bit of a reach to assume this is a Super Bowl team because of playoff experience gained.

Yeah, I buy it. Like he said, "We're working our plan." New England lost Welker. I don't think we've lost anything like that. The Baltimore Flaccos lost much of their defense.... more than we did. The Broncos look better already, the 49ers & Seahawks look better already.

But this is still a process. If Cushing comes back healthy (& McNair is closer to that situation than I am), if Jjo can come into the season healthy, I'm not too worried about the guy who will play next to Brian. I think we have some options at safety...... I was just talking about how much Harris reminds me of Quin. Haven't seen him tackle enough, but he does remind me of Quin.

Anyway.... this is part of the process. McNair has faith in the organization he put together. He's taking from the positives of last season & working towards getting better. So, why not?

Oh we're in for a tough year, for sure.

There are glaring holes, and a major weakness at QB all of a sudden.


I don't believe McNair thinks we have a major weakness at QB. He's been pretty consistent with his position as well. We need to put play makers around Matt.

"He's getting criticism he shouldn't get, but he'll probably be tougher as a result of it," McNair said. "It was Matt's first postseason, and I'm sure he learned from it."

McNair hopes Schaub and his teammates on both sides of the ball will use the New England defeat as a learning experience.

"We had a lot of players that didn't make plays when they had the opportunity in the playoffs," McNair said. "This thing is a process, and the playoffs are different than regular season. I think the players have to go through that and understand it.

"Everybody picks up their game. You better bring your 'A' game. I know it's easy to say that, but now the players have seen it for the last two years and know what to expect.

"Mentally, we're developing a toughness you have to have."

Read more: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-owner-McNair-maintains-faith-in-plan-team-4368649.php#ixzz2O6Ve1o2A



I mean it worked for the Ravens & it got Matt Ryan a play off win (finally).. Schaub is only 3 years older than those two.

The Pencil Neck
03-20-2013, 02:13 PM
With that being said, do you buy it? Do you believe a team that has newly acquired holes & needs simply increases it's chances of being a Super Bowl because the remaining players gained playoff experience? I think talent level of the team is a key factor & that is something I believe the Texans team has recently dropped off a bit in based of it's recent player losses. Granted we don't know what the end of free agency or the draft will bring to the team, but as the team stands now it seems a bit of a reach to assume this is a Super Bowl team because of playoff experience gained.

I buy it.

I don't know if we'll have as good of a record as we had last year but I expect us to be a grittier team that's going to play better in the playoffs.

Every year, teams acquire new holes and needs. It's very rare that you have a team without weaknesses. We've still got a LONG way to go this off-season and there are a lot of deals not done, yet.

I was more worried last year because of losing Brisiel, Winston, and Dreessen. Losing Casey and Quin and a bunch of marginal players doesn't scare me half as much as losing the whole right side of our line along with our best blocking TE.

I think we'll return to more of a classic FB approach. I think we'll get another blocking TE (which is why I like the Maneri option.) And our rookie linemen from last year should be better this year; I wouldn't be surprised if our line ends up being Brown-Smith-Myers-Jones-Brooks. I'm hoping we'll bring Winston back to solidify the line OR find an improvement in either FA or the draft. If we do that, our offense improves.

I think we can find someone to play S who'll play better than Quin did last year. He got burned a lot near the end of the season. I think we're going to upgrade our ILB situation and I wouldn't be surprised if we upgrade our DT/NT situation.

So, yeah. I'm not pushing the panic button on this off-season, yet.

Porky
03-20-2013, 02:29 PM
Apparently someone spikes Bob's morning oatmeal with a concoction of LSD and Ecstasy.

badboy
03-20-2013, 02:43 PM
I agree with McNair. Josepth and Cush back is big factor and with Schaub having a playoff behind him he should be even better. Other than Quin and Barwin we have basically same starters and I feel Reed and Mercilus will be good. Solid picks for WR2, OLB, Nose and a safety (if no Reed) + a lower round for ILB should be as good as what we had or even better. Newton should be even better even if not 100%. Most importantly I think RG will be resolved with Brooks.