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View Full Version : Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?


IDEXAN
01-19-2013, 01:38 PM
Antonio Smith Defensive Lineman 2/28/2009: Signed a five-year, $35.5 million contract. The deal included a $12.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/
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I was afraid he was to become a FA this year, but not so since we have him thru the season and he does become a FA next year, in 2014.
He's gonna cost us 6 M bucks for 2013: is he worth it, but better yet do you think Smith & Kubiak think he's worth it ?

NCTexan
01-19-2013, 01:43 PM
As much as I like Smith, I don't really want to pay him that much next year. I'd rather pick up a veteran FA WR for a few years. The issue though is outside of Watt, he was the only getting any pressure on the QB.

I think we ended up keeping him, but not resigning him after next season. Maybe draft a DE this season to groom/rotate in?

mussop
01-19-2013, 01:44 PM
Antonio Smith Defensive Lineman 2/28/2009: Signed a five-year, $35.5 million contract. The deal included a $12.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/
*******************************************
I was afraid he was to become a FA this year, but not so since we have him thru the season and he does become a FA next year, in 2014.
He's gonna cost us 6 M bucks for 2013: is he worth it, but better yet do you think Smith & Kubiak think he's worth it ?

Yes he is worth it. I think they will try and resign him this year with an extension. Hopefully he takes it. I don't see them cutting him this year no matter what.

tru80texan
01-19-2013, 01:53 PM
Antonio Smith Defensive Lineman 2/28/2009: Signed a five-year, $35.5 million contract. The deal included a $12.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/
*******************************************
I was afraid he was to become a FA this year, but not so since we have him thru the season and he does become a FA next year, in 2014.
He's gonna cost us 6 M bucks for 2013: is he worth it, but better yet do you think Smith & Kubiak think he's worth it ?

I mentioned this another thread & said that is quite a bit for Antonio. He did have 1 of his better seasons & I've always respected the intensity that he brings because he was 1 of the 1st high motor guys that helped transform this defense, but the Texans will need to free up cash to resign a couple of key players this offseason & potentially try to lock up Cushing as well. I like Antonio & wouldn't mind keeping him around, but money talks & depending on how the coaches & Smith value Antonio is what really matters. Do they think Crick can replace Antonio or do they consider taking a chance on getting a DE in the draft early & making them an instant starter? Who knows, but 1 thing is for sure...most of us would've never suspected DeMeco to be traded or Winston to be cut last season. Considering Antonio's cost, anything could happen imo.

Hagar
01-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Really good teams walk a fine line between maxing out the salary cap and keeping more experienced players. You see it every year with the Steelers and the Pats, each team will release someone you look at and say "Wow, they released him?" I think Smith is a very good player but, at 31, he's not the player he once was and not the heart of our defense anymore. I wouldn't be suprised if they released him.

mussop
01-19-2013, 02:07 PM
Really good teams walk a fine line between maxing out the salary cap and keeping more experienced players. You see it every year with the Steelers and the Pats, each team will release someone you look at and say "Wow, they released him?" I think Smith is a very good player but, at 31, he's not the player he once was and not the heart of our defense anymore. I wouldn't be suprised if they released him.

He had probably his best year as a pro. He is a big part of this defense. If you think Smith isnt worth 6 million wait till you see what Quin and Barwin will get offered on the open market. They will both get offers that we won't match. I see us letting both walk via FA.

You are right its possible. But if you take all things in to consideration (the draft, existing depth, FA and the salary cap) it would be alot harder to replace Smith than either of those guys.

Playoffs
01-19-2013, 02:11 PM
Definitely worth it, imo.

Antonio was rated by PFF (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) as the 6th best 3-4 DE in 2012. Watt #1. (34 DEs qualified for >25% of team snaps)

welsh texan
01-19-2013, 02:18 PM
He's definitely worth it, but at his age I believe that we should be able to work something out with him that puts cash in his bank account up front and lowers his salary to a couple of mill per year for say 3 years, plenty of time to look for his eventual replacement, think it was Dutch who came up with that option and if he'd take it that'd be perfect for the team.

Lucky
01-19-2013, 02:46 PM
Smith restructured his contract in 2011. I don't know if there is any information regarding what this does to his cap hit, if released. Without that information, it's difficult to make an informed opinion. On the surface, I would say no, that salary needs to come down. I would consider extending Smith to a couple of more years if it would lower his cap number.

If you think Smith isnt worth 6 million wait till you see what Quin and Barwin will get offered on the open market. They will both get offers that we won't match. I see us letting both walk via FA.
I think Barwin should be allowed to test free agency. I wouldn't offer him more than a year. Quin is a solid member of the defense. Not spectacular and not irreplaceable. Manning got 4 years, $20 million in 2011. I could see Quin getting a similar offer, though he's not as good as Manning.

dream_team
01-19-2013, 10:57 PM
What's Jamison's situation? Is he a FA? Is he expected to come back 100%?

That's besides the point. Antonio is our 2nd best pass rusher and the only guy drawing extra attention besides Watt. He's a must to keep around next year.

Excited for Jamison coming back though, he's an ideal backup DE. Crick didn't seem like much of a difference maker out there, but he has room to improve.

ThaShark316
01-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Crick kind of hit a rookie wall. He was really good early on; kind of tapered off a bit down the stretch.

Anyway, need to keep this guy for sure.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 12:35 AM
Antonio Smith Defensive Lineman 2/28/2009: Signed a five-year, $35.5 million contract. The deal included a $12.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/
*******************************************
I was afraid he was to become a FA this year, but not so since we have him thru the season and he does become a FA next year, in 2014.
He's gonna cost us 6 M bucks for 2013: is he worth it, but better yet do you think Smith & Kubiak think he's worth it ?

I don't think we were getting our money's worth out of him, when we signed him to a deal that paid him $8M a year (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942383) over the first three years.

This year, 2012, I have no problem paying him $8M..... I don't know what his cap number was for the year, or how the contract worked out, I thought he restructured.

His number has got to "fit" within the cap but I wouldn't mind seeing a $6M/yr deal with performance bonuses where a year like 2012 would get him an extra 2-3 mil.

b0ng
01-20-2013, 01:09 AM
Same question but for Wade Smith? $3m this year, FA in 2014.

Edit: for reference Mike Briesel was paid 4.35m by the Raiders.

Wolf6151
01-20-2013, 01:42 AM
Yes he is worth it. I think they will try and resign him this year with an extension. Hopefully he takes it. I don't see them cutting him this year no matter what.

My sentiments exactly, he's absolutely worth the money. I'd like to see the Texans restructure and extend his contract another 2 yrs. while bringing down the cap hit. JJ Watt might get all the stats but when he does make the play in the backfield most times it's Smith taking on a double team on the other side of the D-line. I see teams handling Cody easily with one blocker. If we get a better NT to take those double teams it will free Smith to make more plays.

Wolf6151
01-20-2013, 01:47 AM
Same question but for Wade Smith? $3m this year, FA in 2014.

Edit: for reference Mike Briesel was paid 4.35m by the Raiders.

I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.

IDEXAN
01-20-2013, 08:22 AM
I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.
I think we already drafted his replacement in the 3rd or 4th round of last years Draft (2012 Draft). And as to why or how he made it to the PB, the same question could be asked of perhaps a fourth or a third of the guys there ? Several if not many players get to the PB every year for reasons other than their performance on the field.

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 09:14 AM
I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.

I think the answer is pretty simple concerning the Pro Bowl. The Pro Bowl is a complete joke & the worst excuse for an "All Star" game in pro sports. It's normally voted on by uninformed fans who can vote multiple times. That's a combination that normally doesn't lead to good things imo. Normally players that play on teams doing well get the votes regardless of their performance. Which normally leads to good players being snubbed year in & year out. Perfect example...Duane Brown. He's been our best o-lineman for quite some time yet Myers made it before him & the year Brown finally makes its the same year Wade Smith gets his 1st. That's a shame imo. At one point during the voting Caldwell was amongst the top vote getters at G & he had already lost his job to Jones. That is a perfect example of how silly it is at times imo.

It's simply a popularity contest not voted on by the most knowledgeable fans. Which is exactly why when someone tries to use Pro Bowls as justification for a players abilities & worth I normally don't pay much mind. Being named All Pro holds a lot more water to me when talking about a players abilities & worth.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 09:25 AM
I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.

I would think Brooks is his repacement. I think that's why Kubiak rotated him with Ben Jones this year, to get it out of the way. Next year, Brooks will compete with Smith & Jones will start at RG.

I've got concerns about Newton, but he did have a knee thing & that could explain a lot. But the same goes for Smith, he's been battling through stuff as well. If there's reason to believe he can play like 2009, I've got no problem keeping him & starting him if the cap allows.

infantrycak
01-20-2013, 09:52 AM
It's simply a popularity contest not voted on by the most knowledgeable fans.

Fans only account for one third of the selection. Players and coaches account for the other two thirds.

Goldensilence
01-20-2013, 09:55 AM
Really depends who we are looking at losing this and next year. Smith had a pretty good year, but my bigger concern is about losing Quinn and what's behind him at S, Demps and Keo whom both just are defensive sieves.

Far as I am concerned, Barwin is likely to walk. Down year and it's easier to find a pass rusher outside in this system than it will be to find a suitable replacement at safety because I've seen nothing to suggest this franchise is going to ever invest a high pick at safety.

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 10:11 AM
Fans only account for one third of the selection. Players and coaches account for the other two thirds.

I realize that, but I think we can all agree that we have seen some players who are easily better then others not make it as well as players who made it based on reputation as opposed to performance in that particular season. Not sure how many players & coaches actually participate in voting or how serious it taken amongst them, but the fan vote is normally a good indication of what players are going to make it & as I said earlier it normally includes a list of players who don't necessarily deserve to be "all stars" imo.

dream_team
01-20-2013, 11:16 AM
I realize that, but I think we can all agree that we have seen some players who are easily better then others not make it as well as players who made it based on reputation as opposed to performance in that particular season. Not sure how many players & coaches actually participate in voting or how serious it taken amongst them, but the fan vote is normally a good indication of what players are going to make it & as I said earlier it normally includes a list of players who don't necessarily deserve to be "all stars" imo.

Taking that into account, is there really a lot of Texans fans out there voting for Wade Smith? I mean, everyone in here is surprised he made it. Is there really a lot of Texans fans voting him to the Pro Bowl? And I bet, he is barely known outside of Houston. One explanation is he's better than we all think?

tru80texan
01-20-2013, 11:56 AM
Taking that into account, is there really a lot of Texans fans out there voting for Wade Smith? I mean, everyone in here is surprised he made it. Is there really a lot of Texans fans voting him to the Pro Bowl? And I bet, he is barely known outside of Houston. One explanation is he's better than we all think?

No, I don't think he's better then we think he is. I think a lot of people know of Arian & how well he does & the natural assumption is if Arian is doing well then his o-lineman must be doing well. Not only that, the Texans have had a reputation for having a decent o-line the last few seasons despite the obvious decline this season. As I said earlier, I think reputation as opposed to production gets some players in & I think our o-lineman have benefited from Arians success imo.

And yes I do believe there are that many Texans "fans" who probably voted for every Texan. The fan base has grown quite a bit w/ the recent success & not all pay attention enough to know which players are the better ones on the team so its easier just to vote for them all. I don't care for that mindset, but it is what it is. Let's be honest, even those that do know the difference in the players can't remove their homer glasses & still voted for all of the Texans.

76Texan
01-20-2013, 12:37 PM
I don't think we were getting our money's worth out of him, when we signed him to a deal that paid him $8M a year (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942383) over the first three years.

This year, 2012, I have no problem paying him $8M..... I don't know what his cap number was for the year, or how the contract worked out, I thought he restructured.

His number has got to "fit" within the cap but I wouldn't mind seeing a $6M/yr deal with performance bonuses where a year like 2012 would get him an extra 2-3 mil.

OK, I'm going to take a stab at this.
Originally, Smith signed a 5yr deal for $35M (including $12.5 in signing bonus.)

He was guaranteed $19.4M through the first two years.

What wasn't reported at the time, but now shows up on Spotrac is that he has to earn part of his salary in the last 3 years through some form of bonus (roster and/or incentive bonus,) at $1.3M per year.

He was due to make $4.4 in 2011 (including the $1.3) when he agreed to restructure his contract.

There wasn't any report of him receiving any front loaded money to defer his salary.
Again, as per Spotrac, he only took home $2M (including the $1.3M) instead of roughly some $4.4M

In another word, it looks like he took one for the team.
He risked leaving money on the table (or he was forced too.)

Based on the Demeco Ryan's situation, perhaps the remainder of his contract was guaranteed in exchange for the temporary pay cut.

If that's the case, the Texans guaranteed his contract (gaining the interest money) and cap space.

I think Smith will play through next season at a base salary of $6M plus that $1.3M roster/incentive bonus.

The Texans are in the book for the $2.5M prorated signing bonus (from the origin $12.5)

Let's assume something else entirely different .
Let's say that the Texans didn't guarantee Smith anything.

Cutting Smith would give the Texans $7.3 M in salary (but they can only use $4.8M) to find a replacement.

You're not going to be able to find a comparable player at that money.

I think Smith will stay.

Now if the Texans really like Smith, they might extend his contract at lower value per year, perhaps for another 2 to 3 years and be done with it.

There isn't a guy currently on the team that can replace him.

However, if they need to, they will have to cut him and hope that they can draft another guy. Or they can sign a low cost FA and give Jamison and Mitchell more snaps at that position.

Playoffs
01-20-2013, 12:38 PM
Same question but for Wade Smith? $3m this year, FA in 2014.

ProFootballFocus rated Wade Smith as the 26th best G (54 total) and 13th best RG in 2012, for Gs taking at least 50% of team snaps.

Playing between Brown & Myers helps. I don't see them resigning Smith, who'll be 32.

Apologies to OP re: off topic post.

Corrosion
01-20-2013, 01:42 PM
Sure seemed to make alot of silly mistakes .... offsides , unsportsman like penalties .... and wasnt as productive as in the past.


I could see him staying , getting restructured and even cut .... Nothing is off the table in this instance.

HJam72
01-20-2013, 01:53 PM
Player makes Pro-Bowl and Texans promptly cut him... :kitten:

srrono
01-20-2013, 05:41 PM
He has shown no drop off in his play, so I would extend him a couple of years to make his contract cap friendly.

deucetx
01-20-2013, 05:51 PM
He needs to restructure. Simply as that. That is just too much money. We definitely want to keep him since no one else seemed capable of getting pressure on the quarterback when Watt was occupied. We signed Tim Jamison to an extension early in season which made me think we already planned on cutting Smith so Jamison could step in. Of course they did that thinking we had strong edge rushers in Barwin and Reed. Oops, heh.

We'll see. Jamison is solid but haven't seen him push a pocket like Smith has lately and of course he's coming off that season ending injury. We also have Crick but that is an unknown. Hopefully Smith will restructure because we can definitely use him while these young backers develop.

srrono
01-20-2013, 05:54 PM
I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.

I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.

deucetx
01-20-2013, 05:56 PM
I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.

.....That line scares the living crap out of me LOL

badboy
01-20-2013, 06:45 PM
I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.interesting, who is your back up OG? Newton had only 17 plays his rookie year and then beat out Butler. Not sure if Brooks ready to start but could be.

srrono
01-20-2013, 07:18 PM
interesting, who is your back up OG? Newton had only 17 plays his rookie year and then beat out Butler. Not sure if Brooks ready to start but could be.

Could be a draft pick HOU should have a extra 3rd round pick in draft or GM Smith has had success on picking up guys other teams discard.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 07:20 PM
Totally off topic, but I hope Watt continues to wear that brace on his left arm.

Makes him look like a cyborg.

Wolf6151
01-20-2013, 11:08 PM
I would think Brooks is his repacement. I think that's why Kubiak rotated him with Ben Jones this year, to get it out of the way. Next year, Brooks will compete with Smith & Jones will start at RG.

I've got concerns about Newton, but he did have a knee thing & that could explain a lot. But the same goes for Smith, he's been battling through stuff as well. If there's reason to believe he can play like 2009, I've got no problem keeping him & starting him if the cap allows.


I agree the whole Pro Bowl voting and game has become a joke.
I see Brooks as our starting RG next season and see our starting O-line like this:

LT-Brown
LG-W. Smith
C-Myers
RG-Brooks
RT-Newton

Ben Jones is our primary backup at all interior O-line positions, I just think he's to small to be a starter at OG.
We draft an O-lineman to get sporadic playing time behind Smith in 2013 and then when Smith becomes a FA in 2014, he's replaced by the new guy.

steelbtexan
01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
Sure seemed to make alot of silly mistakes .... offsides , unsportsman like penalties .... and wasnt as productive as in the past.


I could see him staying , getting restructured and even cut .... Nothing is off the table in this instance.

A. Smith gets cut if he doesn't restructure. His season reminds me alot of Winston. Good not great, definitely overpaid.

I think enough people get cut to find a younger vet OG kinda like W.Smith was when he signed in FA. Then a RT is drafted.

rolyat93
01-21-2013, 03:05 AM
Wow, Smith is so underrated. Dude is absolutely worth it, imo. Watt and him were the only ones on the DLine who did jack **** this year.

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 12:36 PM
Ben Jones is our primary backup at all interior O-line positions, I just think he's to small to be a starter at OG..

Isn't he the same size as Briesel?

amazing80
01-21-2013, 12:55 PM
I think we should extend Smith say 2 more years (meaning wed have him for 3 more seasons) and spread the hit out while lowering the hit this season. We have no good options behind him yet, so getting rid of him would be crazy.

At least we have Butler (we thought) when we got rid of Winston, and even that did not work, so don't make the same mistake, rework his deal instead.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 01:47 PM
Isn't he the same size as Briesel?

Actually Jones is a bit smaller. Jones 6'3" 303lbs/ Briesel 6'5" 310lbs/ Caldwell 6'3" 315lbs. Added Caldwell just for comparison.

Jones needs to bulk up w/ strength. He simply got manhandled by Suh & Wilfork. Both are no easy task for any o-lineman, but Jones was tossed like a rag doll on a few occasions.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 02:19 PM
Actually Jones is a bit smaller. Jones 6'3" 303lbs/ Briesel 6'5" 310lbs/ Caldwell 6'3" 315lbs. Added Caldwell just for comparison.

Jones needs to bulk up w/ strength. He simply got manhandled by Suh & Wilfork. Both are no easy task for any o-lineman, but Jones was tossed like a rag doll on a few occasions.

This has been and always will be the problem with the zbs, in no world will smaller olinmen be able to handle massive nt's, hasn't worked since the 90s. The system is to get guys moving side to side along the line and then bursting through an opening, but when you try to run it up the gut, in short yardage situations or near the goal line (within the 5) we struggle, we get no push. Unless we keep getting 330 pound linemen who are nimble on their feet, we will continue to struggle vs mammoth nose tackles.

badboy
01-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Could be a draft pick HOU should have a extra 3rd round pick in draft or GM Smith has had success on picking up guys other teams discard.I've researched Alvin Bailey a lot, had an off year as did many on the Arkansas team due to upheavel with coaching. Still, I see Wade SMith playing out his last year & allowing more seasoning for our newer guys. I may be hoping too much for Brooks but he could be awesome when he gets snapped in. I already have my picks pretty much locked in as far as position anyway & don't want to have to change unless we are bring in a vet.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 02:48 PM
This has been and always will be the problem with the zbs, in no world will smaller olinmen be able to handle massive nt's, hasn't worked since the 90s. The system is to get guys moving side to side along the line and then bursting through an opening, but when you try to run it up the gut, in short yardage situations or near the goal line (within the 5) we struggle, we get no push. Unless we keep getting 330 pound linemen who are nimble on their feet, we will continue to struggle vs mammoth nose tackles.

I was actually referring to him being manhandled while pass protecting, but yes, i agree, there are issues w/ running up the middle for short yardage as well. Jones was simply getting pushed or tossed out of the way too often & providing slim to no protection for Schaub. He has to be able to dig in & hold his ground to some degree.

Hardly the lone reason for Schaub's poor play, but it still needs to be addressed because it seems we may have a qb that needs everything outside of his control to be executed perfectly for him to be effective.

Off the subject- what other site where you referring to that you frequent, if you dont mind me asking?

TexansBull
01-21-2013, 02:53 PM
Outside of Barwin, players usually perform at their best in a contract year...keep him and draft someone this year to replace him to learn for a year.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

amazing80
01-21-2013, 02:59 PM
I was actually referring to him being manhandled while pass protecting, but yes, i agree, there are issues w/ running up the middle for short yardage as well. Jones was simply getting pushed or tossed out of the way too often & providing slim to no protection for Schaub. He has to be able to dig in & hold his ground to some degree.

Hardly the lone reason for Schaub's poor play, but it still needs to be addressed because it seems we may have a qb that needs everything outside of his control to be executed perfectly for him to be effective.

Off the subject- what other site where you referring to that you frequent, if you dont mind me asking?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=18

Im amazingandre over there

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 03:08 PM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=18

Im amazingandre over there

Interesting. I never knew they had MB's. I've read some reviews on prospects there in the past, but that is about it. That was a good story on Braman as well. I knew he had issues in the past, but didn't know the details. Might have to take a look over there from time to time. Thanks for the info.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 03:17 PM
Interesting. I never knew they had MB's. I've read some reviews on prospects there in the past, but that is about it. That was a good story on Braman as well. I knew he had issues in the past, but didn't know the details. Might have to take a look over there from time to time. Thanks for the info.

No problem. The board over there is significantly different. The board itself is based on the entire NFL with team specific forums. The Texans have a good size following and very intelligent posters. BUT the Mods throughout that forum are MUCH more strict than this one, which is good but can be bad too. The small bickering that happens on forums can get nipped in the bud quickly there even when you haven't stepped out of line that bad. The opinions on the Texans and the team is quite different from here a lot too. Its nice to get the different perspectives.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 03:26 PM
This has been and always will be the problem with the zbs, in no world will smaller olinmen be able to handle massive nt's, hasn't worked since the 90s. The system is to get guys moving side to side along the line and then bursting through an opening, but when you try to run it up the gut, in short yardage situations or near the goal line (within the 5) we struggle, we get no push. Unless we keep getting 330 pound linemen who are nimble on their feet, we will continue to struggle vs mammoth nose tackles.

I think you're overstating this a little bit.

From what I've read for a few years now, actually the trend of Olinemen has been on the reversal.

An NFL Olineman averages around 310 nowadays, with the college guys just over 302.

The Ravens, for example (according to ProFootball Reference) had 3 guys at 309, 307, and 300.

They didn't have any problem against the Pats.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 03:29 PM
I think you're overstating this a little bit.

From what I've read for a few years now, actually the trend of Olinemen has been on the reversal.

An NFL Olineman averages around 310 nowadays, with the college guys just over 302.

The Ravens, for example (according to ProFootball Reference) had 3 guys at 309, 307, and 300.

They didn't have any problem against the Pats.

They average 3.7 a carry and we averaged just over 4, so yea, they struggled running the ball.

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 03:31 PM
No problem. The board over there is significantly different. The board itself is based on the entire NFL with team specific forums. The Texans have a good size following and very intelligent posters. BUT the Mods throughout that forum are MUCH more strict than this one, which is good but can be bad too. The small bickering that happens on forums can get nipped in the bud quickly there even when you haven't stepped out of line that bad. The opinions on the Texans and the team is quite different from here a lot too. Its nice to get the different perspectives.

The HT MB isn't much better. I was a frequent poster over there, but a select few mods seem to be experiencing some issues w/ having power & insist that you obey their every command despite you not violating any forum rules. Just simply because they say so & if you disagree they ban you. Its a complete joke IMO. I've actually enjoyed my experience over here much more to be honest. Good discussion w/ fans & less homers who seem to be catered to on the HT MB.

I enjoy learning everything I can about the Texans, players, & the NFL. Different perspectives makes for good debate & I always enjoy that. Once again, thanks for the info.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 03:39 PM
The HT MB isn't much better. I was a frequent poster over there, but a select few mods seem to be experiencing some issues w/ having power & insist that you obey their every command despite you not violating any forum rules. Just simply because they say so & if you disagree they ban you. Its a complete joke IMO. I've actually enjoyed my experience over here much more to be honest. Good discussion w/ fans & less homers who seem to be catered to on the HT MB.

I enjoy learning everything I can about the Texans, players, & the NFL. Different perspectives makes for good debate & I always enjoy that. Once again, thanks for the info.

haha yea, I know all about HT.com.....I was there back in the day, but I was just out of high school and had a bad attitude when people disagreed with me, I was banned for life from ht.com and actually this site, but after a few years and getting a new ip address I made a new account here :whip:

76Texan
01-21-2013, 03:43 PM
They average 3.7 a carry and we averaged just over 4, so yea, they struggled running the ball.

Don't look at just one number.
If you like numbers, one important number is fumble.

You can gain 40 yards on a play and it would not do you any good when you fumble the ball.

But let's not digress.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 03:45 PM
Don't look at just one number.
If you like numbers, one important number is fumble.

You can gain 40 yards on a play and it would not do you any good when you fumble the ball.

But let's not digress.


Just playing devils advocate with ya. I think we need to keep the zbs but find bigger guys, like Brooks...hopefully Gary is realizing this

76Texan
01-21-2013, 04:05 PM
Don't look at just one number.
If you like numbers, one important number is fumble.

You can gain 40 yards on a play and it would not do you any good when you fumble the ball.

But let's not digress.

Just playing devils advocate with ya. I think we need to keep the zbs but find bigger guys, like Brooks...hopefully Gary is realizing this

Just want to clarify my points a little bit.

They converted 3 third and short with the run
They scored on the goal line with the run.
Rice made something out of nothing on a couple of plays as not to leave the offense in too bad of a situation.
They chewed out the clock with 9 running plays and 2 kneel downs by Flacco.

All of those intances bring down the average (or at least, supposedly, most of the time.)

...

Obviously, we like to find big guys that are athletic.
Brown was one (the Texans had him trimmed down when he reported to camp a little overweight, however.)
Same thing with Brooks.

On the other hand, they bulked Newton up a little bit since he has the height/frame.

Thorn
01-21-2013, 06:50 PM
If he wants to much money, he's gone. If they can sign him for something reasonable, he'll for sure be back. There's no reason NOT to bring him back if it's a reasonable contract.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:54 PM
Hard to say with Smith. Really like him a lot, but he's never been a big time play maker to me, but he is very solid. I'll support whatever decision they make on him unless he gets way over paid. I'd like to have him back, but only at a certain cost.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 07:41 PM
If he wants to much money, he's gone. If they can sign him for something reasonable, he'll for sure be back. There's no reason NOT to bring him back if it's a reasonable contract.

Hes already signed for next season but at like 9.5 million.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 07:48 PM
Hes already signed for next season but at like 9.5 million.

To much in my opinion, but for one season it might not hurt. It depends on how that would effect our ability to get other guys or re-sign other guys.

amazing80
01-21-2013, 08:04 PM
To much in my opinion, but for one season it might not hurt. It depends on how that would effect our ability to get other guys or re-sign other guys.

I think it is too, but I said I would resign him, add 2 years (keeping him for 3 total) and spreading out the hit more. Lowering his cap this season in the process.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 08:39 PM
Hes already signed for next season but at like 9.5 million.

$6M base, $1.3M in roster and/or incentive bonus.
$2.5M on top is the prorated signing bonus when he first signed the contract.

He already restructured, losing some of the value of his original contract.

Basically, he already gave the Texans a discount.

amazing80
01-22-2013, 10:36 AM
$6M base, $1.3M in roster and/or incentive bonus.
$2.5M on top is the prorated signing bonus when he first signed the contract.

He already restructured, losing some of the value of his original contract.

Basically, he already gave the Texans a discount.

so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons, correct?

76Texan
01-22-2013, 01:22 PM
so if we extend him, only the 2.5 would stay.

So if we did 3 years 12 mil, with 6 mil signing bonus youd have (hed actually get 12.5 this season, but not all of that is against the cap)

4 + 2.5 + 2, saving a million and keeping him another 3 years while lowering his hit the next 2 seasons, correct?

Unfortunately, that's not going to work.

As per last year, there were 24 D-linemen who earned more than the 7.1 per annum that Smith was making (not counting 34 OLB.)

4 more guys made slightly less than him but still at or above the $7M threshold.

And there were a ton of them making more than $6M.

Base on that going rate, I think a 3-yr deal is probably in the 7.1, 6.5, 6 range at the minimum. That is he will probably get paid about $6.5M per year.

You just can't find a FA with that caliber for cheaper.

There's a temporary saving in cap space to restructure his contract (taking into account that we still have the $2.5 signing bonus in the book.)

Let's say we give him a new 3-yr contract at $19.5 ($4.5M restructuring bonus and $5M base salary per yr.)

Add the $2.5 to the $4.5, we have $7M that need to be prorated over 3 years for $2.333M per annum.

His cap hit for each of the next 3 years would be $5+$2.333= $7.333

Instead of $9.6M, we only need to deal with $7.333; therefore, we will have an extra $2.267M to use (kicking the can down the road.)

So I guess that can be done; but I doubt there's any more we can do.

76Texan
01-22-2013, 01:28 PM
Wait a minute, as I reread your post, it seems like you were offering an $18M contract for 3 years, which is only $1.5M lower than what I think need to happen.

Your calculation for cap space, I think, is just a bit off.

gafftop
01-23-2013, 10:14 AM
Keep him. At least he has heart.
The one we shold have traded/dumped was Mario if we could have saved 18 million his last year.

b0ng
01-23-2013, 10:25 AM
Why do people continuously post about how we should basically trade any player that has any value in the last year of their contract? You can't just push a button and a trade magically happens, somebody has to want to take on that $18m contract AND give up something of value to get him (most of the time in the form of draft picks).

In fact, I don't even think the idea of trading Mario Williams came up until after 2011 was already finished and a bunch of Captain Hindsight's start running around this board talking about how we should've traded Mario before 2011 and blah blah blah.

gafftop
01-23-2013, 10:39 AM
Why do people continuously post about how we should basically trade any player that has any value in the last year of their contract? You can't just push a button and a trade magically happens, somebody has to want to take on that $18m contract AND give up something of value to get him (most of the time in the form of draft picks).

In fact, I don't even think the idea of trading Mario Williams came up until after 2011 was already finished and a bunch of Captain Hindsight's start running around this board talking about how we should've traded Mario before 2011 and blah blah blah.

04-19-2011 #131
gafftop
Hall of Fame


Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 54
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 1843 The Mario Issue, Let's look at it in another way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.

Wrong

b0ng
01-23-2013, 10:51 AM
04-19-2011 #131
gafftop
Hall of Fame


Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 54
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 1843 The Mario Issue, Let's look at it in another way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.

Wrong

Even then you're still having to qualify this statement with the gigantic IF that we need to get a good deal which was at best, a crackpot idea. Go ahead and show off your prowess of things that would never happen and didn't happen and weren't a good idea at the time. It's pretty funny.

EDIT You coming in now, and making the statement that the Texans should've traded Mario makes the idea look even dumber. Who were we going to trade with exactly and what, pray tell should we have gotten in return?

gafftop
01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
Even then you're still having to qualify this statement with the gigantic IF that we need to get a good deal which was at best, a crackpot idea. Go ahead and show off your prowess of things that would never happen and didn't happen and weren't a good idea at the time. It's pretty funny.

EDIT You coming in now, and making the statement that the Texans should've traded Mario makes the idea look even dumber. Who were we going to trade with exactly and what, pray tell should we have gotten in return?

Really. How am I supposed to know that. My feeling is and I stated it in that thread that not trading Mario would be one of the biggest mistakes the Texans could make and that it would hurt this team in the future. I still believe that and you don't. No problem.

Dutchrudder
01-23-2013, 11:08 AM
$6M base, $1.3M in roster and/or incentive bonus.
$2.5M on top is the prorated signing bonus when he first signed the contract.

He already restructured, losing some of the value of his original contract.

Basically, he already gave the Texans a discount.

The 1.3 million is part of what he restructured in 2011. The team converted 3.9 million of his 2011 salary into signing bonus, thus prorating it over 3 years. That 1.3 million in 2013 has already been paid to him and is guaranteed to hit the cap next year regardless of what happens to him. The only money on his deal that can be adjusted is the 6 million in salary, which is not guaranteed.


Reference:

The math is complicated, but basically Smith, Ryans and Johnson got their paychecks going forward reduced in exchange for taking more cash up front in the form of signing bonuses. Specific numbers were not made available.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-salary-cap-issues-put-Ryans-Smith-on-2081486.php

This was all part of the effort to fit JJo and Manning into the cap.

thunderkyss
01-24-2013, 12:19 AM
Even then you're still having to qualify this statement with the gigantic IF that we need to get a good deal which was at best, a crackpot idea. Go ahead and show off your prowess of things that would never happen and didn't happen and weren't a good idea at the time. It's pretty funny.

EDIT You coming in now, and making the statement that the Texans should've traded Mario makes the idea look even dumber. Who were we going to trade with exactly and what, pray tell should we have gotten in return?

Doesn't matter. A lot of things could have been done, should have been done & we have no idea what the Texans tried to do. It makes more sense to sign Mario before his final season. For all we know, they were in good faith negotiations. Maybe they believed Mario was going to sign with us.

Then they were left holding the bag.

Again, I don't know that happened, it's a theory. Another, is that they thought they would have money with the cap escalating. They were wrong & had to cut bait.

It's a lot easier to make these decisions, when you don't have to deal with the real world, or live with their consequences.

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 01:13 AM
Doesn't matter. A lot of things could have been done, should have been done & we have no idea what the Texans tried to do. It makes more sense to sign Mario before his final season. For all we know, they were in good faith negotiations. Maybe they believed Mario was going to sign with us.

Then they were left holding the bag.

Again, I don't know that happened, it's a theory. Another, is that they thought they would have money with the cap escalating. They were wrong & had to cut bait.

It's a lot easier to make these decisions, when you don't have to deal with the real world, or live with their consequences.

I think the FO had to have a worst case scenario in mind in case the salary cap wasn't raised & it seems that is what panned out based on Mario's claim that they basically showed him the door w/ no offer. Of course a trade would have been ideal before his final year to at least get something as opposed to nothing. But as another mentioned who would've taken him. His salary was huge, he just came off the IR the year before, & everyone probably assumed he was destined to be a FA the following year. It would not have made sense for any team to take on an $18M salary w/ no guarantee he would've stayed at seasons end.

In the end, it was a good decision not to re-sign Mario as he is overpaid & simply is not worth his current salary. It's a shame that he got away & the Texans got nothing in return, but this was one situation in which the culprit was Casserly. Smith's hands were tied in this situation & that was probably a good thing when its all said & done because 11 sack seasons are not worth $100M in any way shape or form imo.

leebigeztx
01-24-2013, 03:24 AM
I think both smith guys will be gone. I like antonio,but they drafted crick and in situational football,mitchell can play snaps there. The texans have to be very careful wen dealing with 30+ yr old solid players. If it were me and I. Didn't have a cap charge, I would cut daniels,smith,smith,let cody go. They need money for cushing,quinn,and maybe even barwin. In thi draft alone,there are a few 5 techniques in this draft like goodman of clemson and jones of ucla. The texans can go jenkins 1st,goodman 2nd,thomas 3rd,and king in the 4th.

welsh texan
01-24-2013, 03:45 AM
Going back to the Mario thing, totally different situation to the Antonio Smith situation, 16 players got more sacks than Mario in 2012, 65 got more than him in 2011, 27 in 2010...I could go on.

Now, whilst I'm not claiming that sack numbers are the be-all and end-all in DE/OLB effectiveness, I'd say for the highest paid player on D in the history of the NFL, and even before that contract one of the top paid guys in the league anyway ($18m in 2011), and a guy who really should be all about pass-rush with, the guy has never made a splash at his position.

Just because the Bills got an itchy trigger in FA doesn't mean the offer was there on the table to take him in his final season. We got a 3rd for an oft-injured, mid-level DE in the end anyway.

If you were in any FO around the league, are you about to offer higher than a 3rd for that talent? Are you going to take on $18m without determining that that is the market value for him?

It was perfectly acceptable to hope for a trade at the time, but to go back to that argument now is ridiculous, the FO obviously thought they'd give him chance to prove his worth in a contract year, he went off for a few games then handed in his sick-note pretty quickly, pretty much confirming the reason for not negotiating with him early, the reason to show him the door, the reason why no-one in their right mind would have traded for him prior to his contract year.

Antonio OTOH is a great guy to have in the D, does his job really well, but is getting paid a heck of a lot especially when he's playing across from a guy who's even better.

Now, I'm hoping they can get something worked out this year which takes into account his age and the upheaval that moving city would bring, and his chances of winning an SB anywhere thats got cap space to improve on what we can offer.

Does he deserve his money? Yes. Can we afford it? Time will tell.

76 makes some great points about what the rest of the league will determine his value is, I'm just hoping that at his age we might be able to put a pile of cash in his hand up front and increase his guaranteed money, whilst locking him up into years when he can't be certain of earning anywhere else.

He'd be taking a gamble to hit the open market, change scheme, and hope to play well enough to stay on a roster. Rick Smith will really be earning his money if he can sell that argument to him.

welsh texan
01-24-2013, 04:01 AM
I think both smith guys will be gone. I like antonio,but they drafted crick and in situational football,mitchell can play snaps there. The texans have to be very careful wen dealing with 30+ yr old solid players. If it were me and I. Didn't have a cap charge, I would cut daniels,smith,smith,let cody go. They need money for cushing,quinn,and maybe even barwin. In thi draft alone,there are a few 5 techniques in this draft like goodman of clemson and jones of ucla. The texans can go jenkins 1st,goodman 2nd,thomas 3rd,and king in the 4th.

Couple of points here lee...firstly, are you happy with the idea of yet more upheaval on the Oline next year? Wade Smiths cap saving isn't huge, and whilst he hasn't been great the last couple of years, at least he's passable.

I saw nothing in the RG battle to suggest that I want to simply peg both those guys as starters next season, I let them battle it out for 1 position in camp, bring in some competition, and look for them to improve going into the following season before I entertain the idea of handing them both starting spots.

That gives me confidence of improvement through experience next season, and allows me to keep them rotating if need be.

Crick, another who needs to see more game-time before we simply rely on him, sure he's got potential but again, am I going to hand him the starter position with maybe a rookie to fend off in camp?

You scare me with your willingness to lessen our experience in return for cap-savings we don't necessarily need to make.

With the space we have currently, we can re-sign any/all of the FA's if we want to, no problem. Any further saving would be going towards either improving our ability to sign mid-level FA's off other teams (a gamble in itself) or freeing us up to negotiate with people like Cush who we'd be able to resign next year anyway given the money we'll have coming off the books then.

Last year we desperately needed to make cap savings or else our team was going to lose some huge pieces in a month or so's time. This year not...not so much, and the places you are advocating making those savings aren't anywhere near as deep as the 2 positions we did it at last year (sure you can say neither our ILB #2 position, nor RT position panned out that well this past season, but I for one can see that the FO's thinking was correct, both had experienced depth and cheap FA help/inexperienced backups to compete).

I'm seeing some crazy ass stuff going about this forum already and the SB hasn't even been won yet...I've got a feeling this off-season is going to be fugly around here.

Texcore
01-24-2013, 10:36 AM
Couple of points here lee...firstly, are you happy with the idea of yet more upheaval on the Oline next year? Wade Smiths cap saving isn't huge, and whilst he hasn't been great the last couple of years, at least he's passable.

I saw nothing in the RG battle to suggest that I want to simply peg both those guys as starters next season, I let them battle it out for 1 position in camp, bring in some competition, and look for them to improve going into the following season before I entertain the idea of handing them both starting spots.

That gives me confidence of improvement through experience next season, and allows me to keep them rotating if need be.

Crick, another who needs to see more game-time before we simply rely on him, sure he's got potential but again, am I going to hand him the starter position with maybe a rookie to fend off in camp?

You scare me with your willingness to lessen our experience in return for cap-savings we don't necessarily need to make.

With the space we have currently, we can re-sign any/all of the FA's if we want to, no problem. Any further saving would be going towards either improving our ability to sign mid-level FA's off other teams (a gamble in itself) or freeing us up to negotiate with people like Cush who we'd be able to resign next year anyway given the money we'll have coming off the books then.

Last year we desperately needed to make cap savings or else our team was going to lose some huge pieces in a month or so's time. This year not...not so much, and the places you are advocating making those savings aren't anywhere near as deep as the 2 positions we did it at last year (sure you can say neither our ILB #2 position, nor RT position panned out that well this past season, but I for one can see that the FO's thinking was correct, both had experienced depth and cheap FA help/inexperienced backups to compete).

I'm seeing some crazy ass stuff going about this forum already and the SB hasn't even been won yet...I've got a feeling this off-season is going to be fugly around here.

I'm on the fence about keeping Smith or not, I like him. But it may be time to move on.

Addressing the Mario issue, I'm not sure if he was all that tradeable. Teams don't usually trade for a player unless a new team can come to an agreement with that player. You hardly ever see that happen. Plus he was injured. And if you had traded him the year before, we'd still have to deal with a cap hit from his bonus (though I admit I'm not sure how big or little it would have been).

beerlover
01-24-2013, 11:09 AM
keep ninja but find future replacement via draft, can't count on Jamison either coming off injury.

srrono
01-24-2013, 11:38 AM
keep ninja but find future replacement via draft, can't count on Jamison either coming off injury.

Michigan State DE William Gholston - freak of nature that has to start dominating games and taking over games. And, if he didn't truly do it at MSU, then will he do it in the NFL? Even if he doesn't dominate, he can be a solid 3-4 DE, playing the run well. I could see him being a taller version of Houston Texan Antonio Smith in the future.
http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/scouting-71-underclassmen-entering-nfl-draft

badboy
01-24-2013, 12:06 PM
Jared Crick.

dream_team
01-24-2013, 01:08 PM
Jared Crick.

I'm no expert talent evaluator, but what do you guys think of Jared Crick? I thought he was fairly quiet on the field. But is he really a viable option if we lose Antonio?

thunderkyss
01-24-2013, 07:20 PM
I think the FO had to have a worst case scenario in mind in case the salary cap wasn't raised & it seems that is what panned out based on Mario's claim that they basically showed him the door w/ no offer. Of course a trade would have been ideal before his final year to at least get something as opposed to nothing. But as another mentioned who would've taken him. His salary was huge, he just came off the IR the year before, & everyone probably assumed he was destined to be a FA the following year. It would not have made sense for any team to take on an $18M salary w/ no guarantee he would've stayed at seasons end.

In the end, it was a good decision not to re-sign Mario as he is overpaid & simply is not worth his current salary. It's a shame that he got away & the Texans got nothing in return, but this was one situation in which the culprit was Casserly. Smith's hands were tied in this situation & that was probably a good thing when its all said & done because 11 sack seasons are not worth $100M in any way shape or form imo.

Do you think we'd have gotten more than a third round pick for him? If the speculation is correct, we'll get a compensatory third for him.

amazing80
01-24-2013, 07:22 PM
This thread isn't about Mario, don't bring up that over rated, over paid, under achieving loser into this thread.

thunderkyss
01-24-2013, 07:24 PM
I think both smith guys will be gone. I like antonio,but they drafted crick and in situational football,mitchell can play snaps there. The texans have to be very careful wen dealing with 30+ yr old solid players. If it were me and I. Didn't have a cap charge, I would cut daniels,smith,smith,let cody go. They need money for cushing,quinn,and maybe even barwin. In thi draft alone,there are a few 5 techniques in this draft like goodman of clemson and jones of ucla. The texans can go jenkins 1st,goodman 2nd,thomas 3rd,and king in the 4th.

30 years old is definitely an issue with "speed" guys. "Power" guys like Antonio, I don't think 30 is an issue.

In addition to Crick, we've also got Tim Jamison who was coming along great before he got hurt.

tru80texan
01-24-2013, 07:42 PM
Do you think we'd have gotten more than a third round pick for him? If the speculation is correct, we'll get a compensatory third for him.

No, to be honest. His contract was garbage w/ no guarantee for the team acquiring. Would've been a dumb move for any team imo. If his contract was manageable then someone may have given a 3rd because obviously the Bills overestimated his worth, but its hard to say. I'll be honest, I will be surprised if the Texans get 3rd round comp for him. I'm seeing a 4th at best. I do agree w/ the sentiment that he is an overpaid, overrated diva. Letting Mario walk is probably the best move Smith has made during his time here imo. I'm just glad the salary cap assisted, or forced, him w/ the decision.

gafftop
01-25-2013, 08:28 AM
Do you think we'd have gotten more than a third round pick for him? If the speculation is correct, we'll get a compensatory third for him.

We also would have had about 18 million to sign maybe Briesel, Dreessen, or Winston or keep Demeco or picking up a FA. Freeing up the salary cap was just as important as what we might have gotten for him.
Look at the Jets shopping Revis and I think their FO is a joke, but at least they see the writing on the wall.

76Texan
01-25-2013, 11:26 AM
The 1.3 million is part of what he restructured in 2011. The team converted 3.9 million of his 2011 salary into signing bonus, thus prorating it over 3 years. That 1.3 million in 2013 has already been paid to him and is guaranteed to hit the cap next year regardless of what happens to him. The only money on his deal that can be adjusted is the 6 million in salary, which is not guaranteed.


Reference:



http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-salary-cap-issues-put-Ryans-Smith-on-2081486.php

This was all part of the effort to fit JJo and Manning into the cap.

So then if the Texans cut Smith, they will incur $3.8M in dead money, yet still has very little room to find a replacement ($6M), but with a total of $9.8M in cap charge just the same.

He most likely comes back for at least another year to finish out his contract

tru80texan
01-25-2013, 09:51 PM
So then if the Texans cut Smith, they will incur $3.8M in dead money, yet still has very little room to find a replacement ($6M), but with a total of $9.8M in cap charge just the same.

He most likely comes back for at least another year to finish out his contract

Where is your 9.8M number coming from? If 3.8M is dead money then the difference is 2.2M freed up in salary cap money because his salary is 6M. That would put them at a little over 15M in salary cap space. Then you potentially add another 3M if Walter is let go & the Texans are sitting around 18M which is where the Titans & Jags are also roughly sitting.

I'm not a salary cap guru & frankly I hate trying to figure it out,but this is how I'm seeing it concerning Smith. Am I missing something?

76Texan
01-26-2013, 02:17 AM
Where is your 9.8M number coming from? If 3.8M is dead money then the difference is 2.2M freed up in salary cap money because his salary is 6M. That would put them at a little over 15M in salary cap space. Then you potentially add another 3M if Walter is let go & the Texans are sitting around 18M which is where the Titans & Jags are also roughly sitting.

I'm not a salary cap guru & frankly I hate trying to figure it out,but this is how I'm seeing it concerning Smith. Am I missing something?

Base = 6
Pro-rated signing bonus (original contract) = 2.5
Pro-rated restructuring bonus (from 2011) = 1.3

Total cap hit in 2013 = 6+2.5+1.3 = 9.8M

This is according to spotrac (a website that keeps tract of all NFL contracts, salaries, and cap figures.

tru80texan
01-27-2013, 04:10 PM
Base = 6
Pro-rated signing bonus (original contract) = 2.5
Pro-rated restructuring bonus (from 2011) = 1.3

Total cap hit in 2013 = 6+2.5+1.3 = 9.8M

This is according to spotrac (a website that keeps tract of all NFL contracts, salaries, and cap figures.

Ok, so that's what I was thinking. His 6M base salary is not guaranteed if he is cut. Im pretty that is what I've been reading concerning him. So the 3.8M does stay regardless, but the difference by freeing up the remaining of his 6M is 2.2M.

So cutting Smith would result in: 6M( base salary not guaranteed) - 3.8M( pro-rated signing bonus/ dead money)= 2.2M salary cap space

Not a huge savings, but none the less a savings IF they feel Crick or Jamison can step into his role & produce. Who knows, but after last season I don't think he or too many others for that matter are off limits.

beerlover
01-27-2013, 04:22 PM
Texans can draft Datone Jones, 6-4 280 UCLA to learn NFL ropes from Ninja one year before he becomes free agent http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2116802#post2116802