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View Full Version : Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade


panamamyers
01-17-2013, 10:57 PM
Let us assume that Schaub remains the starter next year.
There is obviously a level that the rest of the team could reach that would win the Super Bowl despite a sub par qb.
What level is that?

If we had Brisiel and Winston back for instance.
Got someone with the talent of Dwayne Bowe to play opposite of Andre.
Barwin regain his form from last year.
Draft someone on the level of Kareem Jackson let's say to play the nickel corner. Draft someone that is just as good as Manning to play the third safety.
Get someone along the lines of a Bruce Carter to play alongside Cushing.

Just how many positions, and how much of an upgrade at each of those positions, do we need to upgrade to where you would feel comfortable going to battle with Schaub?

Would finding comparable replacements that brings the line back to 2011 standards and Barwin getting 15 sacks and getting Bowe opposite Andre make you feel confident with our chances at the Super Bowl? Would we need to upgrade even more than that?

Brisco_County
01-17-2013, 11:13 PM
We need a lot in general, not just "upgrades." A right guard for depth, a starting ILB, a starting NT, a WR to replace Posey, a CB for depth, a safety for depth, an OLB if we let Barwin walk.

Texcore
01-18-2013, 12:04 AM
Let us assume that Schaub remains the starter next year.
There is obviously a level that the rest of the team could reach that would win the Super Bowl despite a sub par qb.
What level is that?

If we had Brisiel and Winston back for instance.
Got someone with the talent of Dwayne Bowe to play opposite of Andre.
Barwin regain his form from last year.
Draft someone on the level of Kareem Jackson let's say to play the nickel corner. Draft someone that is just as good as Manning to play the third safety.
Get someone along the lines of a Bruce Carter to play alongside Cushing.

Just how many positions, and how much of an upgrade at each of those positions, do we need to upgrade to where you would feel comfortable going to battle with Schaub?

Would finding comparable replacements that brings the line back to 2011 standards and Barwin getting 15 sacks and getting Bowe opposite Andre make you feel confident with our chances at the Super Bowl? Would we need to upgrade even more than that?

All of the above you mentioned would help, but we also need a bit of a more aggressive philosophy on offense. I think we need to draft with the intent of improving our pass rush even more. Win that battle at the line of scrimmage more than they do and we can beat them.

That is our best bet.

panamamyers
01-18-2013, 01:28 AM
im looking for not so much generalizations, but more specifics.
i know the positions we need, but i want to know just what level of greatness the rest of the team must reach to compensate for schaub.
if we had a demarcus ware type talent at olb and a justin smith type talent at dt would those two guys alone put you in a frame of mind of thinkining we have better than even odds of making a super bowl.
im just trying to get an idea of just how lucky we have to be in acquiring talent and just how exceptional eveyone else is going to have to be since the constant is obviousky going to be schaub.

panamamyers
01-18-2013, 01:37 AM
its probably too complicated of a question to really be able to answer.

midway
01-18-2013, 01:40 AM
With Schaub as QB you basically need 10 other pro-bowlers on offense to win the super bowl.

Norg
01-18-2013, 02:14 AM
on offensive ...????

another play maker at the #2 WR slot

a beast of a RT

a true Beast of a FB

a much better Special Teams


if we get all that schub will be better ..cause i like what we got a Guards and are TE's are good OD and hopefully a improved Garrett

thunderkyss
01-18-2013, 06:00 AM
its probably too complicated of a question to really be able to answer.

We probably need a little more luck than we need an upgrade at any position. I do think HFA would have helped, if Denver were to beat New England. If we were to get Baltimore at home, I think we had a better chance of winning that game than the Patriots on the road.

I think the Patriots would have beat us at home, so we would have needed Denver to beat them.

& by a little luck, I mean someone with a better grasp of how the game is going. I think both Minnesota & the last Colts game were winnable if we'd have gotten our heads out of our butts sooner.

There were plays to be made with the game pan we used, but the "stay calm, don't get too high or too low" mentality killed us over the last 6 weeks.

Txn_in_FL
01-18-2013, 07:37 AM
im looking for not so much generalizations, but more specifics.
i know the positions we need, but i want to know just what level of greatness the rest of the team must reach to compensate for schaub.

Is that you Gary? Looking for a little advice from the boards eh?

Speedy
01-18-2013, 07:39 AM
With Schaub as QB you basically need 10 other pro-bowlers on offense to win the super bowl.

If that's the case I wonder what the Broncos would need, assuming Peyton Manning remains the starter.

RT22
01-18-2013, 10:37 AM
Team speed and playmakers to surround Schuab. After rewatching the NE playoff game we lack the speed to win individual match ups. Also we do not audible on offense which is a disadvantage and why we have a lot of 3 and outs. If we can not run the ball we can not throw it. When we lined up in the shotgun the Pats played us to run short routes and that's what we did with only a 4 man rush and at the most 5. Kubiak needs to turn over the play calling, offense was better when Shanny was able to call a play every now and then. It almost seems that every pass is predetermined by Kubiak telling Schaub exactly who to go to by design no matter what the defense does. If you rewatch the game look at Schaub when he comes to the los, no looking over the defense to see what they are running to make adjustments, just snaps the ball when it is a pass he looks at his primary as soon as it is snapped. Also if look at the other wr they do not sell there route if they are not the primary. Look at first drive of the game on the Casey drop Foster went in motion and just kinda jogged to the corner never looking for the ball or even making a move. Also look at Daniels when he came of the los he ran his route and you can tell he was looking at Casey not at Schuab knowing the ball was not coming to him even though he was open.

Sorry for getting off the subject a bit.

76Texan
01-18-2013, 11:33 AM
Blocking, blocking, and blocking.
Not just for the passing game, but also for the running game so we can move the chain.

Imagine the Texans facing a guy like J. J. Watt twice a year, instead of a second tier D-lineman from our rivals.

Wade Smith hasn't been healthy in a long time, and it doesn't look like that is going to change.

While both Jones and Brandon Brooks showed promises, they are still way too inconsistent.

And Newton barely makes the grade when he was healthy.

Casey isn't cutting it as a blocking FB and O.D. has never been much at blocking either.

Either we get a bona-fide heavyweight at FB or we need another great blocking TE, preferrably both.

That's at least 3 positions to upgrade.
Good linemen can only be found in the top two rounds.
You can find one a little later but he'll likely be a project or a platoon player to start out (spelling Newton or one of the Guards in a rotation.)

A blocking FB and a blocking TE can be found in the 4th or later.

(I haven't looked at the FBs yet, but there are a couple of TEs in the draft that look good in blocking - I still hate it that we didn't take Brandon Myers who is now with the Raiders.)

Then find a speedster at WR in the third round. He can be raw like Jacoby was but as long as be can stretch the field, he'll help.
T.J. Graham, T.Y Hilton, Leonard Hankerson, Clyde Gates, they all are guys that were drafted in the third or lower the last two years.)

Revamp the defense with a FA and the rest of your draft class.

It's not easy but it can be done; at least you can upgrade the team some.

panamamyers
01-18-2013, 11:55 AM
Sorry, I was typing on my tablet last night. Couldn't really elaborate on my replies.

The other 10 guys being Pro Bowlers is probably the closest to a correct answer as can be had lol

I think if we had Dwayne Bowe at the other receiver, Amendola in the slot, Winston and Brisiel both back and maybe an upgrade at tight end to a guy with a little more quickness and overall speed than Daniels.

Then we would be in good shape to do what we needed to do on offense. The running game would be better and we would have better playmakers across the board once Schaub gets rid of the ball.

We are obviously not going to have those specific players back, but just an idea of the caliber of player we need in those positions to feel comfortable in letting Schaub run the show.

So, we have to hope that Brooks and Newton elevate their play to a Brisiel and Winston level. Draft Tavon Austin in the first to fill the Amendola role. Draft Da'Rick Rodgers in the second to fill the Dwayne Bowe role. Get Jordan Reed in the third and hope he's some semblance of Aaron Hernandez.

Not really expecting a good answer here, just trying to wrap my head around just how much better the rest of the team is going to need to be to counteract the deficiency at qb.

Mr teX
01-18-2013, 12:02 PM
First of all, all these things would need to happen if this were any qb outside of the top 5.

On offense:

definitely a speedy #2 WR..somebody other than AJ that is legitimate threat in the passing game. That's why the Pats and GB played so much man against us, they have no fear of anyone outside of AJ beating them in the passing game and its too much of any qb to ask them to repeatedly thread the needle cause your WR's can't separate....let alone 1 with Schaub's limitations.

a legit starting RT..Newton was a 7th rounder for a reason..can't go into the season with that dude starting next year.


On defense:

another young fast ILB that above anything else must be good in coverage...sean lee, luke kechly type...this would allow us to stay in base coverage a bit more rather than bringing a cb in or safety down.

a space eating NT. Wade has said and proven repeatedly that his defenses can be successful without this type of player, but i think our defense with the core we have now has potential to go next level good if he's got that fat pig in the middle.

Aside from all this, kubiak has to open it up more on offense.

Wade has to run zone a bit more.

Tailgate
01-18-2013, 12:09 PM
Blocking, blocking, and blocking.
Not just for the passing game, but also for the running game so we can move the chain.

Imagine the Texans facing a guy like J. J. Watt twice a year, instead of a second tier D-lineman from our rivals.

Wade Smith hasn't been healthy in a long time, and it doesn't look like that is going to change.

While both Jones and Brandon Brooks showed promises, they are still way too inconsistent.

And Newton barely makes the grade when he was healthy.

Casey isn't cutting it as a blocking FB and O.D. has never been much at blocking either.

Either we get a bona-fide heavyweight at FB or we need another great blocking TE, preferrably both.

That's at least 3 positions to upgrade.
Good linemen can only be found in the top two rounds.
You can find one a little later but he'll likely be a project or a platoon player to start out (spelling Newton or one of the Guards in a rotation.)

A blocking FB and a blocking TE can be found in the 4th or later.

(I haven't looked at the FBs yet, but there are a couple of TEs in the draft that look good in blocking - I still hate it that we didn't take Brandon Myers who is now with the Raiders.)

Then find a speedster at WR in the third round. He can be raw like Jacoby was but as long as be can stretch the field, he'll help.
T.J. Graham, T.Y Hilton, Leonard Hankerson, Clyde Gates, they all are guys that were drafted in the third or lower the last two years.)

Revamp the defense with a FA and the rest of your draft class.

It's not easy but it can be done; at least you can upgrade the team some.

I think for the 2013 season ONLY. We need a legit starting RT, and a legit starting ILB to play next to Cush. We need to sign a #2 WR. We need a true blocking FB, and we need a stud all around TE to bring into the fold. Upgrade these areas and I think we have a better chance next year. Seems realistic.

For long term, we will need to look at QB, WR, Safety, CB, NT, and DE very soon.

LikeMike
01-18-2013, 12:58 PM
In a perfect storm we could have won it this year - the talent is there. The injury to Cushing was a big blow, and our guys just seemed to crumble a bit under pressure.

But what we need to do is fix our O-Line. That helps our running game immensely, and also Schaub - who can do more with play action and who would have more time to throw.

Other than that - a little tinkering here and there. But overall we`re good. This team has all it needs to win - they just have to realize how to do it.

welsh texan
01-18-2013, 01:12 PM
This board really needs to decide how much potential they see along the new Oline players.

Myers, Briesel & brown all took a few years before becoming quality starters in the system, it seems like brooks and jones have the potential whilst Newton has a few question marks over his head, despite having had longer in the system.

Well see soon enough, but you can't expect, in this system, to throw top level draft picks at the position and expect immediate improvement.

GP
01-18-2013, 02:10 PM
OL, OL, and OL.

If Schaub is the QB, you have to protect him 90% of the time with better pass blocking and let the refs protect him that 10% of time when he gets thrown to the ground like a rag doll.

Except the only way to do that, now, is for us to draft one in the 1st through 3rd rounds. Which means you end up being thin at the other areas we need, such as ILB and WR. We don't have the cap space to go after a veteran pass blocker.

We need to hit home runs with our draft.

TejasTom
01-18-2013, 02:37 PM
Someone, anyone, WR, RB, coach, that knows where the 1st down maker is on 3rd down because most of our team seems to have forgotten.

Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.

Mr teX
01-18-2013, 02:58 PM
This board really needs to decide how much potential they see along the new Oline players.

Myers, Briesel & brown all took a few years before becoming quality starters in the system, it seems like brooks and jones have the potential whilst Newton has a few question marks over his head, despite having had longer in the system.

Well see soon enough, but you can't expect, in this system, to throw top level draft picks at the position and expect immediate improvement.

Im with you on the o-line to a point.

I think Jones is going to be fine at RG and had he not been in Kubiak's doghouse coming into camp he probably wins the job outright going into the season instead of shuttling in and out with Harris... He showed pretty well against the pats though.

Newton on the other hand didn't really look good at any point this season and i don't see him improving much going into next year.

The other thing is Wade Smith didn't look too hot for a good portion of the season either...I know he was hurt but still, u gotta wonder if it was all injury or was he showing signs of decline.

thunderkyss
01-18-2013, 05:53 PM
Simple, we would just need all of the 52 other players on the roster to be Jesus ...

Speaking of which, how many players stepped up for the Patriots, other than the QB, compared to our players?

Welker --- Andre: Welker
Hernandez -- Daniels: Hernandez
Vareen/Riddley --- Foster: Vareen/Riddley
Patriots OL --- Texans OL: Patriots OL
Patriots D --- Texans D: Patriots D

Look, I understand Matt's the leader, but we "brag" about many other guys on this team & those guys didn't show up any more than Matt did. Yeah, he's got his limitations, but some of this is getting out of hand, way out of hand.

Does anyone sport their Matt Schaub Jersey on Sunday? Sound off if you were wearing a Matt Schaub jersey last Sunday. Sound off if you were wearing one Saturday the week before.

Other than Jj Watt, which one of your favorite player stepped up Sunday? Which one outplayed their counter part on the Patriots team?

ObsiWan
01-18-2013, 06:43 PM
Blocking, blocking, and blocking.
Not just for the passing game, but also for the running game so we can move the chains.

OL, OL, and OL.

If Schaub is the QB, you have to protect him 90% of the time with better pass blocking and let the refs protect him that 10% of time when he gets thrown to the ground like a rag doll.

Except the only way to do that, now, is for us to draft one in the 1st through 3rd rounds. Which means you end up being thin at the other areas we need, such as ILB and WR. We don't have the cap space to go after a veteran pass blocker.

We need to hit home runs with our draft.

I agree with this. Picking up speed guys on offense, whether in the draft of free agency, to "stretch the defense" is a total waste of money if Schaub is running for his life
(think)
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3tvjfixBMlVTZ7Mm0S2mdjYMIuz4ao mB7G8WnNIkegQKC5SQ8

...or worse, on his back, a second and a half after the snap. A great blocking TE has got to help the stretch running game too. IMHO, we should spend our top picks to bolster the O-line and get a TE who can block (speed and good hands wouldn't hurt either) and a true road-grading FB.

As much as I want to get us a "Navarro Bowman" type to go with Cushing, I think making the offense as effective as possible is Priority One. Our defense - hell, any defense - plays better when the offense gives them the lead and can stay on the field for an extended period to give them some rest. And I think it keeps them from getting so uptight when they know, if they DO screw up, the offense can get those points right back.
on his back a second and a half after the snap. A great blocking TE has got to help the stretch running game too. IMHO, we should spend our top picks to bolster the O-line and get a TE who can block (speed and good hands wouldn't hurt either) and a true road-grading FB.

As much as I want to get us a "Navarro Bowman" type to go with Cushing, I think making the offense as effective as possible is Priority One. Our defense - hell, any defense - plays better when the offense gives them the lead and can stay on the field for an extended period to give them some rest. And I think it keeps them from getting so uptight when they know, if they DO screw up, the offense can get those points right back.

76Texan
01-18-2013, 07:00 PM
Speaking of which, how many players stepped up for the Patriots, other than the QB, compared to our players?

Welker --- Andre: Welker
Hernandez -- Daniels: Hernandez
Vareen/Riddley --- Foster: Vareen/Riddley
Patriots OL --- Texans OL: Patriots OL
Patriots D --- Texans D: Patriots D

Look, I understand Matt's the leader, but we "brag" about many other guys on this team & those guys didn't show up any more than Matt did. Yeah, he's got his limitations, but some of this is getting out of hand, way out of hand.

Does anyone sport their Matt Schaub Jersey on Sunday? Sound off if you were wearing a Matt Schaub jersey last Sunday. Sound off if you were wearing one Saturday the week before.

Other than Jj Watt, which one of your favorite player stepped up Sunday? Which one outplayed their counter part on the Patriots team?

Well, Shane Graham wasn't one of my favorites but he outdueled his counterpart by kicking a longer FG, and also had a better net kick-off average.:kitten:

Grungo_Taco
01-18-2013, 08:22 PM
OL, OL, and OL.

If Schaub is the QB, you have to protect him 90% of the time with better pass blocking and let the refs protect him that 10% of time when he gets thrown to the ground like a rag doll.

Except the only way to do that, now, is for us to draft one in the 1st through 3rd rounds. Which means you end up being thin at the other areas we need, such as ILB and WR. We don't have the cap space to go after a veteran pass blocker.

We need to hit home runs with our draft.

schaub's pass protection was well above average this season. it's up to him to go through his progressions and make the difficult throws.

Rey
01-18-2013, 08:24 PM
schaub's pass protection was well above average this season. it's up to him to go through his progressions and make the difficult throws.

The pass protection in the play offs was excellent. We allowed one sack vs NE...

And that was the play where schaub fumbled the ball all by himself and fell on it.

thunderkyss
01-18-2013, 08:47 PM
The pass protection in the play offs was excellent. We allowed one sack vs NE...

And that was the play where schaub fumbled the ball all by himself and fell on it.

You know that doesn't mean the pass pro was excellent. Schaub helped with that, by getting the ball out quick. On our second drive, Schaub threw for three first downs, back to back to back. We then tried to run the ball, ended up in third & long. He threw to a receiver 3 yards short of the sticks, because he had a free rusher in his grill.

Our first drive, even though he didn't get sacked, he had Newton sitting in his lap for both throws into the endzone.

The pass pro was good, I've only studied those first two possessions so far. Newton was adequately decent, the interior, Jones, Myers, & Smith were excellent, Brown was pretty good. This is just pass pro, & just those two drives.... 6 or 7 passes. But I don't think pass protection got much better than that. I mean we had Schaub playing rugby for parts of the game.

ObsiWan
01-18-2013, 09:10 PM
schaub's pass protection was well above average this season. it's up to him to go through his progressions and make the difficult throws.

The pass protection in the play offs was excellent. We allowed one sack vs NE...

And that was the play where schaub fumbled the ball all by himself and fell on it.

Are you two gauging pass protection "excellence"? ...by the number of sacks/QB hits or the amount of time he has before those things occur?

If he's got 3-4 seconds in a clean pocket, I consider that "excellent" protection.

If he's got to get rid of the ball within 1.5 - 2.5 seconds, I consider that "okay" pass protection.

Let me put it another way, how many times did you see Schaub stand in the pocket - like Brady seems to - and pat the ball a couple of times before he decided where he wanted to throw it?

In fairness, I recall a couple of times - after we were down two TDs - but that's it.

HJam72
01-19-2013, 08:42 AM
The pass protection in the play offs was excellent. We allowed one sack vs NE...

And that was the play where schaub fumbled the ball all by himself and fell on it.

Well that is inexcusable that we didn't keep him protected. :kubepalm:

boom boom
01-19-2013, 09:19 AM
We probably need a little more luck than we need an upgrade at any position. I do think HFA would have helped, if Denver were to beat New England. If we were to get Baltimore at home, I think we had a better chance of winning that game than the Patriots on the road.

I think the Patriots would have beat us at home, so we would have needed Denver to beat them.

& by a little luck, I mean someone with a better grasp of how the game is going. I think both Minnesota & the last Colts game were winnable if we'd have gotten our heads out of our butts sooner.

There were plays to be made with the game pan we used, but the "stay calm, don't get too high or too low" mentality killed us over the last 6 weeks.

dont worry the texans will be right back in it next year. thunder, do you you think we can beat the ravens sunday, and if you dont mind what did the texans do in there game against the ravens to have success because you guys destroyed them. i pray new england can beat them the way you guys did, unfortunatly we dont have jj watt and jonathan joseph on defense. watt is the best defensive player in the nfl, what a beast.

boom boom
01-19-2013, 09:22 AM
Yes he got it out quick ... to the ground ... over Andres head ... out of bounds ... to a LB ...

ck, that surprised me too because shaub had plenty of time to do something with that ball rather tha throw it away. the texans will be fine, you guys are on the edge of greatness. great skilled players, jj watt, arian, andre, cmon those guys are beasts and matchup nightmares for opponents. good luck next year and you will win afc south again and for years to come. i feel bad for indy, lol

thunderkyss
01-19-2013, 12:23 PM
Yes he got it out quick ... to the ground ... over Andres head ... out of bounds ... to a LB ...

The point is the pass protection wasn't "excellent"

Good, maybe even very good, but not excellent.

Again, I'll remind everyone, we all knew Foster was going to have to have a great game for us to have "a chance" He didn't & that goes to a lot of people on this football team, not just the QB.

Rey
01-19-2013, 12:49 PM
You know that doesn't mean the pass pro was excellent. Schaub helped with that, by getting the ball out quick. On our second drive, Schaub threw for three first downs, back to back to back. We then tried to run the ball, ended up in third & long. He threw to a receiver 3 yards short of the sticks, because he had a free rusher in his grill.

Our first drive, even though he didn't get sacked, he had Newton sitting in his lap for both throws into the endzone.

The pass pro was good, I've only studied those first two possessions so far. Newton was adequately decent, the interior, Jones, Myers, & Smith were excellent, Brown was pretty good. This is just pass pro, & just those two drives.... 6 or 7 passes. But I don't think pass protection got much better than that. I mean we had Schaub playing rugby for parts of the game.

Ok it was good....LOL

I guess good isn't good enough?

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2013, 12:59 PM
Ok it was good....LOL

I guess good isn't good enough?

Being good isn't good enough because Matt can't scramble to extend a play or step up to avoid the rush . Aaron Rodgers would love to have an OL that's good .

dream_team
01-19-2013, 01:14 PM
Guys... we were close, really close. One win away from the #1 seed, two wins away from the Super Bowl. That means you don't make major changes, just minor adjustments. Here are my minor adjustments I'd like to see.

Offense:
1. Use our first round pick on a WR. Just like everyone else is saying... KW needs to be replaced, and we need an heir apparent for AJ. I hope someone falls to us in the first that can fill that role. I would even be all for moving up in the draft.

2. Re-sign Casey and move him back to TE. I think we're wasting his strengths by having him block so much and not out there running routes.

3. Get a real full back. Maybe we were all spoiled by seeing Leach play all those years and expect Casey to do the same.

4. Use our 2nd round pick on a RT. I think Newton is an excellent backup swing tackle. The loss of Winston & Briesel hurt us more than anticipated.

Defense:
1. Make re-signing GQ priority #1.

2. Use a late draft pick to get more speed at safety. Demps and Keo as our backups hurt us.

3. Use a mid-round draft pick for an ILB. I'd re-sign Bradie & Dobbins to similar money they made last season, and bring along a young guy as the 4th ILB.

4. Do not re-sign Barwin. Mercilus is an upgrade at pass rushing. This may free up some money to get that WR, RT, or ILB in FA instead of the draft.

Special Teams:
1. Fire Joe Marciano. We were bad in all facets of special teams. We've been bad for the past few years, this season was just a new low.

2. Replace Graham with Bullock. This is most likely going happening.

3. I'd like to see a punter with a bigger leg and that doesn't shank his punts so much. I wish we could get Hartmann back, but that most likely won't happen. I don't mind seeing Jones back, but I'd prefer a replacement, as long as his name isn't Matt Turk.

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2013, 01:22 PM
Guys... we were close, really close. One win away from the #1 seed, two wins away from the Super Bowl. That means you don't make major changes, just minor adjustments. Here are my minor adjustments I'd like to see.

Offense:
1. Use our first round pick on a WR. Just like everyone else is saying... KW needs to be replaced, and we need an heir apparent for AJ. I hope someone falls to us in the first that can fill that role. I would even be all for moving up in the draft.

2. Re-sign Casey and move him back to TE. I think we're wasting his strengths by having him block so much and not out there running routes.

I really don't care if we keep Casey or not . I like the guy but we are ready have two guys just like him . I'd like a real fb and a 6'6 TE .


3. Get a real full back. Maybe we were all spoiled by seeing Leach play all those years and expect Casey to do the same.

4. Use our 2nd round pick on a RT. I think Newton is an excellent backup swing tackle. The loss of Winston & Briesel hurt us more than anticipated.

I'd try Brandon Brooks at RT .

Defense:
1. Make re-signing GQ priority #1.

Yep

2. Use a late draft pick to get more speed at safety. Demps and Keo as our backups hurt us.

A 4.7 safety doesn't cut it on defense or special teams .

3. Use a mid-round draft pick for an ILB. I'd re-sign Bradie & Dobbins to similar money they made last season, and bring along a young guy as the 4th ILB.

A guy like Bostic .

4. Do not re-sign Barwin. Mercilus is an upgrade at pass rushing. This may free up some money to get that WR, RT, or ILB in FA instead of the draft.

No to Barwin ... dude cost himself millions .

Special Teams:
1. Fire Joe Marciano. We were bad in all facets of special teams. We've been bad for the past few years, this season was just a new low.

2. Replace Graham with Bullock. This is most likely going happening.

3. I'd like to see a punter with a bigger leg and that doesn't shank his punts so much. I wish we could get Hartmann back, but that most likely won't happen. I don't mind seeing Jones back, but I'd prefer a replacement, as long as his name isn't Matt Turk.

Comments are in bold letters .

thunderkyss
01-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Ok it was good....LOL

I guess good isn't good enough?

LOL

The pass protection in the play offs was excellent. We allowed one sack vs NE...

And that was the play where schaub fumbled the ball all by himself and fell on it.

Sorry, good isn't good enough if you've got an immobile QB scrambling & committing unforced fumbles. If it were excellent, he'd have had time to sit in the pocket & throw deep, stretching the field.

My point was simply that it was not excellent, whether it was good enough to win the game or not is another issue.

In the divisional round of the play-offs, you're saying our pass protection was excellent? So you see no need to upgrade the right side of the OL?

Honoring Earl 34
01-19-2013, 02:23 PM
LOL



Sorry, good isn't good enough if you've got an immobile QB scrambling & committing unforced fumbles. If it were excellent, he'd have had time to sit in the pocket & throw deep, stretching the field.

My point was simply that it was not excellent, whether it was good enough to win the game or not is another issue.

What are you calling deep ?

Goldensilence
01-20-2013, 10:35 AM
Is this what needs to be done on offense if Schaub starts like he will by all accounts next year?

I think we've got a big plus in Jones getting so many reps at RG this year and he'll go into next year as the starter. Smith, despite the pro bowl nod didn't play lights out, he could very well (or least I hope) be in a battle with Brooks when TC starts.

Texans really need to figure something out at RT whether its bringing a vet in or drafting a young more talented RT.

Casey needs more reps at TE and we need a legit FB who is going to lay people out in the running game.

We're good at TE specially if Casey is there, 3 deep.

WR ....where to start. Posey started to show something finally late in the season. the achilles injury is definitely a setback. The real truth here is the WR position needs more speed PERIOD. Don't care if that comes via FA or draft.

In the even bigger picture, Kubiak needs to open up the offense more and stop settling for 3 runs by Foster and settling for a FG in the red zone. Settling for FGs killed us down the stretch and had we played a much more potent offense than Cinci showed we'd be out in the first round.

Lucky
01-20-2013, 10:56 AM
The real truth here is the WR position needs more speed PERIOD. Don't care if that comes via FA or draft.
More than track speed, the Texans need someone with run after catch ability. Defenses are blitzing Schaub on 3rd down, and he has to get the ball out quickly. He cannot buy time in the pocket or rollout.

The Texans should concentrate on letting a receiver that is strong and quick enough to get separation in press coverage, then break a tackle and create havoc in the secondary. A Pierre Garcon type of WR. Cordarrelle Patterson might be the best example in this draft class. Not a polished downfield WR, but someone who can make a play with the ball in his hands.

IDEXAN
01-20-2013, 11:09 AM
Texans really need to figure something out at RT whether its bringing a vet in or drafting a young more talented RT.

I dunno, I'm hearing mixed reviews on Newt's potential as our RT for the long-term ? Some are saying he's the answer.

WR ....where to start. Posey started to show something finally late in the season. the achilles injury is definitely a setback. The real truth here is the WR position needs more speed PERIOD. Don't care if that comes via FA or draft.

Gotta give GM Smith credit, he saw something there and Posey started to flash and really make some plays towards the end of the season. But if I'm not mistaken, C&D indicated Posey may have been damaged merchandise from the get-go ? It sounds very discouraging for the Ohio State WR after that
really nasty injury in the playoff game in NE ?

dream_team
01-20-2013, 11:22 AM
More than track speed, the Texans need someone with run after catch ability. Defenses are blitzing Schaub on 3rd down, and he has to get the ball out quickly. He cannot buy time in the pocket or rollout.

The Texans should concentrate on letting a receiver that is strong and quick enough to get separation in press coverage, then break a tackle and create havoc in the secondary. A Pierre Garcon type of WR. Cordarrelle Patterson might be the best example in this draft class. Not a polished downfield WR, but someone who can make a play with the ball in his hands.

What sucks is I was believing Posey had a good chance at becoming that YAC guy. He's not afraid to take a hit and has good balance. He also has the strength to break some arm tackles. It's unfortunate.

Rey
01-20-2013, 12:06 PM
I think this was the first year the texans didn't have a top six guy in yac in about 5 years.

Lucky
01-20-2013, 01:38 PM
I think this was the first year the texans didn't have a top six guy in yac in about 5 years.
At WR? Are you talking total yards, or average?

Lucky
01-20-2013, 01:44 PM
What sucks is I was believing Posey had a good chance at becoming that YAC guy. He's not afraid to take a hit and has good balance. He also has the strength to break some arm tackles. It's unfortunate.
I didn't see enough from Posey's 6 catches to form a solid opinion. Kubiak waited so long to put him on the field, not sure what he could or couldn't do. While his injury is certainly unfortunate, I don't think that's only reason the Texans would be looking for another WR in this draft. The Posey/Jean/Martin trio didn't produce enough to know if there is anything there.

dream_team
01-20-2013, 03:28 PM
I didn't see enough from Posey's 6 catches to form a solid opinion. Kubiak waited so long to put him on the field, not sure what he could or couldn't do. While his injury is certainly unfortunate, I don't think that's only reason the Texans would be looking for another WR in this draft. The Posey/Jean/Martin trio didn't produce enough to know if there is anything there.

I agree. With or without Posey, I'd like to see a receiver taken early!

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 03:59 PM
Just a reminder, Many people here have stated they believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Matt Ryan. I've never had an opinion of the kid myself, so I don't know. However, unless Schaub's injury is affecting his game & it's not likely to get better, I don't see why Schaub can't reah that level again in your minds.

We'll see today how far Ryan an get his team.

Though I will say it will suck if Dunta Robinson gets to a Super Bowl before we do.

thunderkyss
01-20-2013, 09:42 PM
Matt Schaub isn't a pimple on Matt Ryans ass ...

Just imagine the Falcons didn't have Julio Jones. I doubt they make it to the play offs. He had a heck of a year.

Atl Cav
01-20-2013, 09:49 PM
Just imagine the Falcons didn't have Julio Jones. I doubt they make it to the play offs. He had a heck of a year.

Good observation Thunder. Living in Atlanta, I have watched Ryan all year closely. A very good QB, no doubt. But he has a hell of an arsenal. He keeps hitting the wall mentally. The good news for Atlanta is his wall keeps moving forward. One thing for sure is Atlantans stay behind him - even when he has bad games ( even after his 5 interception game earlier this year).

The NFl is not just a QB league now. Many teams have a good one. It has become a playmaker receiver league as well. And Atlanta recognized this and gambled big on Julio. It appears to have been a good bet.

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 12:32 PM
I just rewatched the first half of our game vs the Patriots. Still, there is nothing leading me to believe he has an issue with his foot. He pointed it & planted it with consiteny, only throwing off his left heel one time. He play faked to the left, he play faked to the right, he moved well (for him) in the pocket, he scrambled well (for him) & attempted to make several off-schedule plays only to be let down by poor handed receivers... OD & Foster among them. He took some chances, OD had to make some amazing catches, he beat LB coverage to get the ball to Foster.....

He definitely could have played better, I still have issues with his ball placement, but they are the same issues I had before the LisFranc.

Unless they are shooting up his foot before every half, I'm not seeing any residual effect of his injury. He'll get better when the team gets better.

Goldensilence
01-21-2013, 04:19 PM
More than track speed, the Texans need someone with run after catch ability. Defenses are blitzing Schaub on 3rd down, and he has to get the ball out quickly. He cannot buy time in the pocket or rollout.

The Texans should concentrate on letting a receiver that is strong and quick enough to get separation in press coverage, then break a tackle and create havoc in the secondary. A Pierre Garcon type of WR. Cordarrelle Patterson might be the best example in this draft class. Not a polished downfield WR, but someone who can make a play with the ball in his hands.

True. Out of the trio of Jean, Posey, and Martin Posey might be the only one to have that ability. If Matt's going to remain the starter they really need to upgrade his outside weapons as opposed to adding another middle of the road WR.

I dunno, I'm hearing mixed reviews on Newt's potential as our RT for the long-term ? Some are saying he's the answer.

Gotta give GM Smith credit, he saw something there and Posey started to flash and really make some plays towards the end of the season. But if I'm not mistaken, C&D indicated Posey may have been damaged merchandise from the get-go ? It sounds very discouraging for the Ohio State WR after that
really nasty injury in the playoff game in NE ?

Kinda figures he's had a mixed season. Physically he's got the athleticism and height you look for in a RT, maybe he needs more time with Benton and co and get coached up is what they are thinking. I guess I just don't have the same confidence he's the long term answer at RT.

With or without a healthy Posey next year I'm still on the bandwagon that the WR needs to be a high priority in the draft.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 04:59 PM
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.

Texcore
01-21-2013, 05:03 PM
Matt Schaub isn't a pimple on Matt Ryans ass ...

Lol, funniest thing I've read today.

Texcore
01-21-2013, 05:10 PM
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.

Concerning WR, very good points. I'm of the mindset that we should acquire a veteran such as Jennings, Smith or Welker. We don't have the time to draft and develop another WR. The only problem is that I don't see us having the cap room to acquire such a talent at WR without sacrificing cap space in the future and not being able to sign our other young guys who's contracts will be coming up. Its frustrating we didn't address finding a compliment WR to Andre earlier during Kubiaks tenure.

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 05:14 PM
True. Out of the trio of Jean, Posey, and Martin Posey might be the only one to have that ability. If Matt's going to remain the starter they really need to upgrade his outside weapons as opposed to adding another middle of the road WR.



Kinda figures he's had a mixed season. Physically he's got the athleticism and height you look for in a RT, maybe he needs more time with Benton and co and get coached up is what they are thinking. I guess I just don't have the same confidence he's the long term answer at RT.

With or without a healthy Posey next year I'm still on the bandwagon that the WR needs to be a high priority in the draft.

This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.

I'm beginning to the that the Texans want WRs who can block first . The Broncos of the glory years of Shanny had Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery as the wideouts and Shannon Sharpe as TE . Sound or look familiar ? Sharpe was a late round pick , Smith FA , McCaffery was a 4th for the Giants ( I think ) , and T Davis was a 6th ( I think ) .

I think the theory on offense is scheme and execution with a QB who understands what your doing . The Broncos had Elway and then Jake Plummer . Both mobile QBs .

tru80texan
01-21-2013, 05:20 PM
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.

Granted Smith did go out & get Joseph & Manning, but let's not forget that that was the year he & kubiak probably sat on the hottest seats that they have ever felt in Houston. Of course he was going to pull out all the stops to ensure he stayed employed. It's a shame that his best signings have come when he felt his job was at stake. Back to the old comfort of being in Bob's good graces so I don't expect much in Free Agency to be honest. It's not his or kubiaks style & they have both have new contracts to make them feel warm & fuzzy.

I can only see the likes of Ramses Barden , Devery Henderson, or Jerome Simpson being the type of wr's the Texans may consider signing & that's ONLY if they FINALLY part ways w/ the blocking sensation Walter. With the salary cap situation I cannot see them going after the likes of Bowe or Jennings. With that being said, i can easily see another year of a mid round wr being drafted & possibly a cheap FA being brought in. No big splash.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:24 PM
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.

The Texans didn't have the cap space to go after FA, Tex.

As far as the draft went, several of us recommended Stephen Hill.
He was drafted at #43 by the Jets I believe.

He became the starter right off the bat and caught 2 TDs in his first game.
He was hindered by injuries soon afterward however, and was finally put on IR later on during the year.

We also considered T.Y. Hilton, but Posey fits better into the mold of a #2 receiver that might eventually replace Walter.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm beginning to the that the Texans want WRs who can block first . The Broncos of the glory years of Shanny had Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery as the wideouts and Shannon Sharpe as TE . Sound or look familiar ? Sharpe was a late round pick , Smith FA , McCaffery was a 4th for the Giants ( I think ) , and T Davis was a 6th ( I think ) .

I think the theory on offense is scheme and execution with a QB who understands what your doing . The Broncos had Elway and then Jake Plummer . Both mobile QBs .

Man, you're probably right and that's part of the problem I absolutely hate with Kubiak. I'm so sick and tired of his "old system" that he refuses to adjust somewhat. It's the single reason why I've hated this guy for all these years is because everything is always one way with him. He cannot and will not adjust his philosophies with a " constantly changing" NFL and a team that will always need to be tweaked some. We need some play makers at WR. We have for years, and now it's a much bigger problem. Kubiak can get a lot of WR's and try to put the blocking mentality into them. A great coach does that. Hell, Todd Haley has done that with a lot of WR's. But Kubiak needs to get out of his one way system of everything, or the NFL is going to pass him by really really fast. It probably already has, but he is the coach here, so we have what we have. But we need play makers at WR to help out and we have for years. It's way to much of a need now. We might have to roll with Yates at some point next season and with as average as he is going to be, he'll need as many play makers as he can get.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:29 PM
The Texans didn't have the cap space to go after FA, Tex.

As far as the draft went, several of us recommended Stephen Hill.
He was drafted at #43 by the Jets I believe.

He became the starter right off the bat and caught 2 TDs in his first game.
He was hindered by injuries soon afterward however, and was finally put on IR late on the year.

We also considered T.Y. Hilton, but Posey fits better into the mold of a #2 receiver that might eventually replace Walter.

So your answer is to do nothing from what I can read here.


They could have traded other assets to free up room on the cap or traded for actual WR's. Maybe they get worse somewhere else, but sometimes that is what you have to do in order to acquire players. That is the job of a GM, and that is where Rick Smith is an amateur as I have stated for years. The guy simply doesn't know how to engineer strong plays with his assets. When was the last time Smith ever ripped a team off in a trade??? Him and Kubiak are ti stubborn and only want to build through the draft. They do pretty well with their 1st round picks. I'll give them that, but after that they both leave a lot to be desired, and building only through the draft is a terrible approach to me. You should always be trying to acquire assets in any way you can.

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 05:31 PM
Man, you're probably right and that's part of the problem I absolutely hate with Kubiak. I'm so sick and tired of his "old system" that he refuses to adjust somewhat. It's the single reason why I've hated this guy for all these years is because everything is always one way with him. He cannot and will not adjust his philosophies with a " constantly changing" NFL and a team that will always need to be tweaked some. We need some play makers at WR. We have for years, and now it's a much bigger problem. Kubiak can get a lot of WR's and try to put the blocking mentality into them. A great coach does that. Hell, Todd Haley has done that with a lot of WR's. But Kubiak needs to get out of his one way system of everything, or the NFL is going to pass him by really really fast. It probably already has, but he is the coach here, so we have what we have. But we need play makers at WR to help out and we have for years. It's way to much of a need now. We might have to roll with Yates at some point next season and with as average as he is going to be, he'll need as many play makers as he can get.

Al Davis said that you never turn down the chance to get someone who can put the ball in the endzone .

If you look at recent drafts , say 2005 and on , you'll see the only Playoff team that's sustained is New England . Why ... Brady and the hoody I guess .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:36 PM
So your answer is to do nothing from what I can read here.


They could have traded other assets to free up room on the cap or traded for actual WR's. Maybe they get worse somewhere else, but sometimes that is what you have to do in order to acquire players. That is the job of a GM, and that is where Rick Smith is an amateur as I have stated for years. The guy simply doesn't know how to engineer strong plays with his assets. When was the last time Smith ever ripped a team off in a trade??? Him and Kubiak are ti stubborn and only want to build through the draft. They do pretty well with their 1st round picks. I'll give them that, but after that they both leave a lot to be desired, and building only through the draft is a terrible approach to me. You should always be trying to acquire assets in any way you can.

After JJo and Manning(two big FA signings), there's just no more room.

Other teams don't want to trade away the receivers they like.

The FAs on the market that were worth anything were too rich.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012WR.php

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 05:38 PM
After JJo and Manning(two big FA signings), there's just no more room.

Other teams don't want to trade away the receivers they like.

The FAs on the market that was worth anything were too rich.

Which means that the good teams hit more than they miss on players or is it they know how to develop said players .

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:38 PM
And what other asset(s) did the Texans had that they could have parted with ?

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:39 PM
Al Davis said that you never turn down the chance to get someone who can put the ball in the endzone .

If you look at recent drafts , say 2005 and on , you'll see the only Playoff team that's sustained is New England . Why ... Brady and the hoody I guess .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft

They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 05:43 PM
And what other asset(s) did the Texans had that they could have parted with ?

Stop asking rhetorical questions 76Texan. We have a ton of assets or do you think this team is terrible all around?? I said we'd probably have to lose at another position, but that's just how things go if you have to make trades. I can't name a certain player, because it would all depend on what team you're trading with and what they might need. Then I could think of a player that we could afford to lose potentially to upgrade the WR position.

I wasn't thinking about players as much though. I was thinking more along the lines of draft picks. Draft picks are the most overrated things on a football team, because you never know which ones will not be any good half the time. At least with certain free agents, you know what you're getting and when you are in a window of winning a SB, sometimes you have to go out and get those proven players that will buy into what you already have that will make your team better right away. I don't like the idea of trying to upgrade the WR position in the draft right now, because it usually takes young WR's a few years to become really good in the NFL. We don't have that time right now. We need solid play makers right now that are ready to contribute.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:44 PM
Which means that the good teams hit more than they miss on players or is it they know how to develop said players .

There are different scenarios here, Earl.

There are teams that kinda suck for awhile to save up cap space to roll over so they can go after the FAs, like the Broncos for example.

Then you have the Colts that somehow got the top pick, some said Suck for Luck.

Same thing with the Redskins playing Cheapstakes like Grossman and Beck last year and then trade away the farm for RG III this year.

There are variables in each different scenario, but hopefully I brought up a few decent examples.

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 05:45 PM
They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.

I think Ol' Bill doesn't use the unwritten rules and is willing to do whatever to win .

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:49 PM
Stop asking rhetorical questions 76Texan. We have a ton of assets or do you think this team is terrible all around?? I said we'd probably have to lose at another position, but that's just how things go if you have to make trades. I can't name a certain player, because it would all depend on what team you're trading with and what they might need. Then I could think of a player that we could afford to lose potentially to upgrade the WR position.

I wasn't thinking about players as much though. I was thinking more along the lines of draft picks. Draft picks are the most overrated things on a football team, because you never know which ones will not be any good half the time. At least with certain free agents, you know what you're getting and when you are in a window of winning a SB, sometimes you have to go out and get those proven players that will buy into what you already have that will make your team better right away. I don't like the idea of trying to upgrade the WR position in the draft right now, because it usually takes young WR's a few years to become really good in the NFL. We don't have that time right now. We need solid play makers right now that are ready to contribute.

I think rhetoric questions serve at least one purpose.

When you try to build a team, it doesn't make much sense to trade assets.
You don't gain anything because you don't have an abundance anywhere to make the trade works in a way to improve your team.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:51 PM
They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.
Right there Tex, I think you answer your own question ???

At least somewhat!?!

Honoring Earl 34
01-21-2013, 05:52 PM
There are different scenarios here, Earl.

There are teams that kinda suck for awhile to save up cap space to roll over so they can go after the FAs, like the Broncos for example.

Then you have the Colts that somehow got the top pick, some said Suck for Luck.

Same thing with the Redskins playing Cheapstakes like Grossman and Beck last year and then trade away the farm for RG III this year.

There are variables in each different scenario, but hopefully I brought up a few decent examples.

I think you have to have a couple of key positions ( LT , sack artist , QB , shutdown CB , ) that you pay big for . The Texans got into trouble overpaying guys on losing teams who didn't fill the positions .

IMO ... Watt and Brown are cornerstones . Joseph maybe if he's healthy fits the bill . The rest is balancing and trying not to overpay guys who are just ... guys .

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:54 PM
Look at the Demecco trade. What did we get in return?

76Texan
01-21-2013, 05:57 PM
I think you have to have a couple of key positions ( LT , sack artist , QB , shutdown CB , ) that you pay big for . The Texans got into trouble overpaying guys on losing teams who didn't fill the positions .

IMO ... Watt and Brown are cornerstones . Joseph maybe if he's healthy fits the bill . The rest is balancing and trying not to overpay guys who are just ... guys .

The Texans are among teams that didn't overload their top ten highest paid players.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Right there Tex, I think you answer your own question ???

At least somewhat!?!

How so? Please explain.


I don't like what the Patriots have done in free agency at all over the years?? They had that one amazing off season where they went out and got all these weapons and they almost had a perfect season. Since then they have done very little as far as getting solid free agents. BB has been extremely cheap and they haven't won a Sb since then. The only big move I thought they made that was a good cheap move was their attempt at Haynesworth as it didn't cost them a thing and it was such a low risk high reward move and it ended up not working. Getting their CB this season though, was a great move that helped them a lot and hopefully they'll resign him next season.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:02 PM
I think rhetoric questions serve at least one purpose.

When you try to build a team, it doesn't make much sense to trade assets.
You don't gain anything because you don't have an abundance anywhere to make the trade works in a way to improve your team.

That all depends on where you get better and where you get worse. Sometimes you may downgrade just a little at one position but upgrade a lot at another. It all depends on the depth that you have in your back ups or the ability to find another replacement somewhere else in the off season. You can't look at it in the little microscope that you are right now, and simply be close minded to making trades that can improve your team. You have to take risks sometimes.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:10 PM
How so? Please explain.


I don't like what the Patriots have done in free agency at all over the years?? They had that one amazing off season where they went out and got all these weapons and they almost had a perfect season. Since then they have done very little as far as getting solid free agents. BB has been extremely cheap and they haven't won a Sb since then. The only big move I thought they made that was a good cheap move was their attempt at Haynesworth as it didn't cost them a thing and it was such a low risk high reward move and it ended up not working. Getting their CB this season though, was a great move that helped them a lot and hopefully they'll resign him next season.

Well, first of all, you have a Brady, and he agreed to restructure in order to bring in other players this year, and so that's what they did.

The next two years, the money will hit, and it will get a little harder for them to maneuver, especially with Welker.

Brady's cap figure will be about double Schaub's next year.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:24 PM
That all depends on where you get better and where you get worse. Sometimes you may downgrade just a little at one position but upgrade a lot at another. It all depends on the depth that you have in your back ups or the ability to find another replacement somewhere else in the off season. You can't look at it in the little microscope that you are right now, and simply be close minded to making trades that can improve your team. You have to take risks sometimes.

Agree about taking risk.
But you can't take too many at the same time.

They took a flyer with a no-name Jacoby.
They tried to work through his mental lapses of judgment, including sleeping at the wheels. They didn't let him go until there was a personal safety threat to him.

They gave Holliday plenty of chances, but he didn't help himself with some bone head decisions on the field.
Even though I would have liked for them to be a little more patient, I really can't blame them.
Holliday had more than half a dozen blunders this year.
The risk/reward is really touch and go there.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Well, first of all, you have a Brady, and he agreed to restructure in order to bring in other players this year, and so that's what they did.

The next two years, the money will hit, and it will get a little harder for them to maneuver, especially with Welker.

Brady's cap figure will be about double Schaub's next year.

That isn't what they did though. They went out and got some really cheap fill ins. That isn't at all what I suggested. The Patriots are a perfect example that illustrates my point. It doesn't go against it. You're just trying to use them as some example as a team that allegedly did this and that it didn't work, but they didn't go out and get good quality. They went out and tried to get whatever cheap fix they could without really addressing the need.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:30 PM
Agree about taking risk.
But you can't take too many at the same time.

They took a flyer with a no-name Jacoby.
They tried to work through his mental lapses of judgment, including sleeping at the wheels. They didn't let him go until there was a personal safety threat to him.

They gave Holliday plenty of chances, but he didn't help himself with some bone head decisions on the field.
Even though I would have liked for them to be a little more patient, I really can't blame them.
Holliday had more than half a dozen blunders this year.
The risk/reward is really touch and go there.

The Texans and the Patriots both have had Steve Smith sitting right there just waiting to get off of the Panthers for years. The team has been frustrated with him, he's been frustrated with the team, and so on. The guy has been chained to all these garbage QB's his whole career, and he would have been a great asset to us and the Patriots. There have been a few others, but Steve Smith was a really solid player that could have been had on the cheap more then once. At one point the asking price was even like a 3rd rounder or something like that. The Texans and the Pats were both silly for not going after that guy, and the results have pretty much proven that. I'm not saying that Smith would have turned either team into a SB winner, but he would have helped out a whole lot.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:43 PM
That isn't what they did though. They went out and got some really cheap fill ins. That isn't at all what I suggested. The Patriots are a perfect example that illustrates my point. It doesn't go against it. You're just trying to use them as some example as a team that allegedly did this and that it didn't work, but they didn't go out and get good quality. They went out and tried to get whatever cheap fix they could without really addressing the need.

Yes and no.

Scott, Lloyd, and Gregory may not be high paying FAs, and neither was Alib.

Without Brady's restructuring, they can't afford most of those acquisitions.

76Texan
01-21-2013, 06:48 PM
The Texans and the Patriots both have had Steve Smith sitting right there just waiting to get off of the Panthers for years. The team has been frustrated with him, he's been frustrated with the team, and so on. The guy has been chained to all these garbage QB's his whole career, and he would have been a great asset to us and the Patriots. There have been a few others, but Steve Smith was a really solid player that could have been had on the cheap more then once. At one point the asking price was even like a 3rd rounder or something like that. The Texans and the Pats were both silly for not going after that guy, and the results have pretty much proven that. I'm not saying that Smith would have turned either team into a SB winner, but he would have helped out a whole lot.

Tex, you're talking about a guy who signed a 4-yr contract for $37.5M

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:51 PM
Yes and no.

Scott, Lloyd, and Gregory may not be high paying FAs, and neither was Alib.

Without Brady's restructuring, they can't afford most of those acquisitions.

I see what you are saying now about the restructuring.


I'm not sure what their cap is directly, but it's been years since they've gone out and gotten some really good free agents. Alib they got on the cheap, but that was a great move with very little risk. I'll give it to the Patriots that all of their moves have very little risk involved. They do great there, but they're always trying to get guys who they hope can get them great results for cheap money. That will happen every now and then, but not the majority of the time. Chad Johnson and Bandon Lloyd were really bad acquisitions and it totally cost them the SB last season, because they couldn't free up the middle of the field when they didn't have a wideout that could get open or stretch the field. Happened yesterday as well. Lloyd was a merely average receiver that over achieved because he played with Brady, but he struggled all season long to get separation consistently.

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 06:52 PM
Tex, you're talking about a guy who signed a 4-yr contract for $37.5M

He might have had to restructure. He wanted out of Carolina pretty bad for a while.

thunderkyss
01-21-2013, 08:41 PM
The Texans didn't have the cap space to go after FA, Tex.

Uh... weren't we just patting Rick Smith on the back a little while ago?

76Texan
01-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Uh... weren't we just patting Rick Smith on the back a little while ago?

For what?

I really had stated many times over that I don't really care for the business side of football.n

If you had been in my boat, all of these veteran accountants that are my immediate family and next-to-immediate family talking shop week-in and week-out for more than 25 years would drive you nut, you really don't want to hear about hundred of millions and billions, let alone a few mills.

Once on awhile I get curious, like what Dutch's thread did to me, but really, I would rather go out and pull weeds or go play with the children (which I did, and still do, LOL).

Texecutioner
01-21-2013, 09:16 PM
Uh... weren't we just patting Rick Smith on the back a little while ago?

Well we could probably be like 5-11 and you'd be patting him on the back.