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welsh texan
01-15-2013, 01:12 PM
Seeing a lot of people claiming we regressed this season. I'm not so sure.

As far as regular season record goes, we improved, fwiw.
In the playoffs we lost in the same round but to a much, much stronger opponent. I don't see any regression in terms of results there. Probably a slight step forward if anything.

As for any problems that you think you saw with the eye test...what new problems have come up? The D was decimated by injury all season long, our best lb, best cb, slot cb, dt all missing significant time. Same with our #3 S who we use plenty. Whilst we still battled to an improved record we had chance to give PT to lots of younger guys giving them a boost in their development over the offseason and allowing the coaches to find out exactly what they've got and what to replace.

On O we already knew Matts limitations, we already knew Kubes' issues, we lost our 2 experienced guys on the right side of the Oline early on, whether they'd lost the camp battles or not, you have to consider they knew the system and would have been in the rotation. We got plenty if guys in the mix to develop our young talent ahead of time. I see a win there.

We also managed to use Graham effectively for his first season featuring so much, the young group at WR may not have set the world alight but they all got experience that will aid their development.

The draft class of last year has me quietly confident too, Merci can develop and handled limited responsibility fairly well, the 2 wrs can both develop, Crick is promising as is Jones on the Oline.

So where's the regression?

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 01:19 PM
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!

Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.

Surreal McCoy
01-15-2013, 01:21 PM
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!

Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.

QFT Although I would assert the defence had shown signs of serious stress fractures against anything other than the mildest of opponents starting in week 3.

MSR.

welsh texan
01-15-2013, 01:31 PM
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!

Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.

I totally agree. And when has the mentality of the HC ever not been under scrutiny? It's been there all along, just the words used have changed, it used to be soft or finesse, now it's risk averse and too loyal.

I genuinely do not believe I found out anything new about this team this season, or the past 6 weeks, that is any worse than what I already knew.

I saw a picture of 2 guys wearing matching coats 6 weeks ago and I just knew what was happening. Even before the first NE game. I even saw AJ telling his team-mates to enjoy being #1 while it lasted and I didn't like it. I bet the Cards enjoyed being #1 4 months ago too.

But all that said, we knew what they were long ago didn't we? This season was a step forward, and dare I hope those lessons about mentality, now that its been the difference between a good season and a great season, instead of the difference between 8-8 or 9-7, or making the wildcard and not making the wildcard...maybe they'll finally get with the programme now?

Tailgate
01-15-2013, 01:35 PM
QFT Although I would assert the defence had shown signs of serious stress fractures against anything other than the mildest of opponents starting in week 3.

MSR.

Amplified by the loss of Cushing... The minute we lost him it was always going to be hard to improve off of last seasons playoffs. Losing @ Indy and losing HFA only furthered the chances of not improving past Divisional playoffs. Had we not lost Cush, I think we hang on to HFA and we are hosting AFC Championship playoff this weekend imo.

Corrosion
01-15-2013, 01:35 PM
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!

Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.

Um , I can name two of us who were complaining of many of the issues the rest of you are now when the team was 10-1.


never overlook in victory what you wouldnt in defeat (or something to that effect - I cant find the exact quote)

I believe that was stated after the victory over the Jaguars in week 11 when we werecomplaining about how poorly they played.



They didnt have bad coaching or playcalling they had bad QB play - the two arent joined at the hip.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 01:36 PM
No regression in the win column, but ceiling has been reached. The last six games of last year and the last six games of this year speak for themselves.


"There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again."

fiasco west
01-15-2013, 01:41 PM
No regression in the win column, but ceiling has been reached. The last six games of last year and the last six games of this year speak for themselves.

I don't see how a ceiling has been reached...same for any team.

You either get better or worse in the NFL as they say, Texans will certainly lose players in the offseason and coaches and will replace those players...it remains to be seen if those changes benefit us or harm us.

But who knows what happens next year? Maybe Mercilus has a breakout year and Cush comes back looking like Peterson? Who knows?

Either way I don't think a ceiling has been reached, at the same time they can obviously get worse...

Playoffs
01-15-2013, 01:54 PM
So where's the regression?I see it more as a result of subtraction. Subtraction of key O-line members, subtraction of Dreessen, subtraction of Cushing.

I do think Barwin, Reed, Manning regressed.

EllisUnit
01-15-2013, 01:57 PM
I don't see how a ceiling has been reached...same for any team.

You either get better or worse in the NFL as they say, Texans will certainly lose players in the offseason and coaches and will replace those players...it remains to be seen if those changes benefit us or harm us.

But who knows what happens next year? Maybe Mercilus has a breakout year and Cush comes back looking like Peterson? Who knows?

Either way I don't think a ceiling has been reached, at the same time they can obviously get worse...

I tthink they mean the ceiling has been reached with 2 important components of this team. The QB and the Head coach

eriadoc
01-15-2013, 02:09 PM
I hadn't thought about it before, but yeah, there was some regression. At least, there was in certain areas. I say that because I think the team was better last year. The OL was better, the run game was better, the defense as a whole was better, and special teams was better, even if not great. Then you have Schaub. I think he was better until the second half of this season. Frankly, I think Yates was as good or better last year than Schaub has been over the past six games. Prior to that, Schaub was clearly better.

Watt was a monster this year, but the overall pass rush was better last year. The secondary has been better this year overall IMO, but JJo was better last year. The linebackers were a ton better last year. The OL was better in both facets. The TEs were better. The FB was better. The WRs were worse because AJ was injured.

I can see the argument for regression. How that fits into this year's schedule and circumstances vs. last year's is anyone's guess, and clearly the record is different. But I think most people would agree that last year's TEAM was better, irrespective of a couple key positions.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Every year is a different year.

Last year, we had a great opportunity because the Patriots were more vulnerable and our offense was (with Schaub at the helm) more potent.

BUT. Schaub was not at the helm at the end of last season.

We progressed this year. We ended up with a better regular season record. We ended up with higher expectations. And we collapsed at the end of the season.

Are we going to regress next year? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the moves we make over the offseason and how lucky we are.

This is about an organization learning to win and growing into being a perennial winner. We've been jealous of the Colts and all those winning seasons they put together. Well, hopefully, we're at the beginning of one of those runs.

Runner
01-15-2013, 02:15 PM
The Texans regressed. The regular season record improved, but the team had Dre and Schaub all year which balances out Cushing. The schedule wasn't as tough as last year, so that makes the better record a bit easier to reach.

Losing in the same round of the playoffs isn't better, and the Cushing excuse doesn't fly - again, they had Dre and Schaub this time.

They lost talent and depth last year due to the salary cap, and it wasn't replaced adequately by backups and the draft as was hoped by many. The talent is less.

The coaching is as uninspiring and sometimes clueless as it was three years ago when Kubiak should have been fired. The lack of growth there is regression, because Kubiak has a lot of room for growth and he isn't growing.

The Colts got better fast. Even if one can convince themselves the Texans are stagnant rather than regressing compared to last year's squad, they are definitely regressing relative to the division, and probably compared to other elite teams.

At least that's my opinion.

eriadoc
01-15-2013, 02:25 PM
Um , I can name two of us who were complaining of many of the issues the rest of you are now when the team was 10-1.

I believe that was stated after the victory over the Jaguars in week 11 when we werecomplaining about how poorly they played.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2064287#post2064287

Here's another:

The rules favor the offense. The old adage "defense wins championships" is less true than it ever was, not that it was ever 100% true anyway. A great defense can hold down the QBs like Sanchez and Gabbert, but like we saw last year against Brees, when an elite QB has the ball with a couple minutes to go and the game on the line, it's now to the point where you expect that QB to deliver more often than not. This year, we have seen elite QBs like Rodgers, Manning, and Stafford (and Henne, LOL) tear up the Texans defense. You can blame injuries, but every team has injuries, and Rodgers faced them pretty close to their best.

If this defense can't find a way to stop guys like Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers (much less Henne and Locker), then the offense has to step up. And I don't mean scoring 24 points against a hapless team like the Titans. I mean put up enough points to bury a team. When the playoffs come around, you only get one shot. There's no fixing it next week, and all these mindless chants of "11-1!!" won't matter.

Don't ignore in victory what you would not ignore in defeat.

fiasco west
01-15-2013, 02:31 PM
I tthink they mean the ceiling has been reached with 2 important components of this team. The QB and the Head coach

Maybe.

But coaches get better and worse. Some of them change and adjust and some of them just remain the same. Nothing says that Kubiak won't change, we only assume that on history and I blame no one for thinking that Kubiak can't improve as a coach.

I'm just saying, every year is different and for a NFL team it is hard to say the ceiling has been reached. I do think there is a ceiling with this team and it is relative to how much longer can AJ be a top 10 WR (he's still top 5...) because replacing that guy is going to be difficult!

I mean it just goes both ways. Watt will be lucky if he has another season like he did last season, you can argue that he's played as well as he could and the only way to go from there is down...Just don't tell Watt that!

deucetx
01-15-2013, 02:31 PM
Let's look at this way...

Last year we had Yates and for a short period Leinart man six games for us. We were also missing Dre for quite some time last year. And now compare last year's passing offense to this year:


2011 - 3506 passing yards, 20 toucdowns, 9 interceptions, 7.0 Net Yards Per Attempt

2012 - 3830 passings yards, 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 6.6 Net Yards Per Attempt

Sorry...but there is barely any difference. We had our starting quarterback and star receiver (only receiver really) all season long and got barely any different production. That is not progress. The offense should have expanded in some sort of way.

Now add the rushing offense:

2011 - 2448 yards, 18 touchdowns, 4.5 average
2012 - 2123 yards, 19 touchdowns, 4.2 average

Again...where is the progress? The running game took a step back. We all know it probably had more to do with the right side of the line than anything. Losing Butler in the preseason (we only lost one guy during that time by the way) meant little to nothing. Newton isn't a rookie so he knows the system and he beat out Butler before the injury. In other words, he was better than Butler (barely) and he still wasn't that good himself. Kind of says something about Butler who is generally injury prone at this point anyway.

Last year we had a more 'consistent' offense even if just mainly the run game. It had a double threat with Foster and Tate we didn't have this season. It was productive more often than not while it seemed to vanish too many times this year. The passing game didn't take a strong step forward that some would have expected with Schaub and Dre. The defense went from elite to just above average.

We had injuries but you know what...we'll have them again. Part of the game. Some of the injuries weren't heavy impacting. Our 3rd CB McCain? He regressed this season compared to last year. He was freaking horrible before getting hurt. Harris wasn't great but he actually did better then McCain so his injury meant little in the way of things. Demps injury? Same guy who got benched toward the end of the year for blowing coverages in favor of Shiloh Keo who can't cover what so ever. Cody injury? The same guy many think needs to be replaced. Mitchell is just as good as he is and they barely see the field anyway. Mitchell would see it more in passing situations because he's faster than Cody.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 02:42 PM
The schedule wasn't as tough as last year, so that makes the better record a bit easier to reach.

I disagree with that.

I think we had a tougher schedule this year than we did last year. Just by record, our opponents this year were 127-129 while last year they were 116-140.

We had a 4-4 record against teams with winning records this year and those teams had a combined record of 88-40 and a 3-2 record against winning teams last year and they had a combined record of 64-32.

Last year was the year where we were feasting on weak opponents.

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 02:54 PM
Um , I can name two of us who were complaining of many of the issues the rest of you are now when the team was 10-1.

Sure there may have been a post or two, but I'm talking about the majority. Especially those that went bonkers the minute we lost the 2nd game of the season as if they needed professional help or something with a two loss team. I posted a thread on Thanksgiving called "Same ole Sorry Kubiak" which I posted during the game not knowing if they would win or lose. I posted the thread, because Gary showed his ass once again by putting the team in a bad position and caused the team to lose. Luckily for them they didn't lose due to the Lions being unable to execute and take advantage, but I was disgusted at the fact that Gary still hadn't learned from all of his previous mistakes that killed this team in previous years. Now in that thread, I was told to shut up by about 90% of the forum that elected to post in that thread. Everyone said shut up we're 10-1 blah blah blah!!! No one seemed to have a worry in the world. I sat back laughing, because I knew that if the outcome of the game was different despite the close score and everything else those same people would have been flipping out and criticizing Gary just as much. However, the Lions didn't execute and everyone wanted to act like Gary's awful play calling that caused the FG kicker to go out there and miss didn't even happen. The majority of time winning makes people forget or ignore what they see or notice in a game.







They didnt have bad coaching or playcalling they had bad QB play - the two arent joined at the hip.

If you're going to tell me that there wasn't poor coaching, well I don't know what to tell ya. One bad play isn't on coaching. A ton of bad plays all over the field from quarter one to quarter 4 is on coaching.

badboy
01-15-2013, 02:56 PM
Let's look at this way...

Last year we had Yates and for a short period Leinart man six games for us. We were also missing Dre for quite some time last year. And now compare last year's passing offense to this year:


2011 - 3506 passing yards, 20 toucdowns, 9 interceptions, 7.0 Net Yards Per Attempt

2012 - 3830 passings yards, 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 6.6 Net Yards Per AttemptSorry...but there is barely any difference. We had our starting quarterback and star receiver (only receiver really) all season long and got barely any different production. That is not progress. The offense should have expanded in some sort of way.

Now add the rushing offense:

2011 - 2448 yards, 18 touchdowns, 4.5 average
2012 - 2123 yards, 19 touchdowns, 4.2 average

Again...where is the progress? The running game took a step back. We all know it probably had more to do with the right side of the line than anything. Losing Butler in the preseason (we only lost one guy during that time by the way) meant little to nothing. Newton isn't a rookie so he knows the system and he beat out Butler before the injury. In other words, he was better than Butler (barely) and he still wasn't that good himself. Kind of says something about Butler who is generally injury prone at this point anyway.

Last year we had a more 'consistent' offense even if just mainly the run game. It had a double threat with Foster and Tate we didn't have this season. It was productive more often than not while it seemed to vanish too many times this year. The passing game didn't take a strong step forward that some would have expected with Schaub and Dre. The defense went from elite to just above average.

We had injuries but you know what...we'll have them again. Part of the game. Some of the injuries weren't heavy impacting. Our 3rd CB McCain? He regressed this season compared to last year. He was freaking horrible before getting hurt. Harris wasn't great but he actually did better then McCain so his injury meant little in the way of things. Demps injury? Same guy who got benched toward the end of the year for blowing coverages in favor of Shiloh Keo who can't cover what so ever. Cody injury? The same guy many think needs to be replaced. Mitchell is just as good as he is and they barely see the field anyway. Mitchell would see it more in passing situations because he's faster than Cody.Where are you getting Matt's stats? He had 350/544 for 4,008 yds @ 7.37 64.3% and 22 TDS 12 INTs http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5615/matt-schaub
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/profile

deucetx
01-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Where are you getting Matt's stats? He had 350/544 for 4,008 yds @ 7.37 64.3% and 22 TDS 12 INTs http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5615/matt-schaub
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/profile

Thread is about team progress and such so those aren't Matt's stats. Those are Texans offensive stats.

Double Barrel
01-15-2013, 04:27 PM
We were 11-1 at one point. I don't care about the margin of scores in those wins. This ain't the BCS. "Quality of wins" means nothing in the NFL.

11-1 was progression, regardless of how the season ended.

The Texans now need to learn how to finish seasons strong. They have learned how to win. They beat teams they were supposed to beat, and they only lost to playoff teams. When compared to previous Texans teams, this is improvement.

True regression to me is missing the playoffs this season. It's clear. It's not debatable. But that did not happen. We made the playoffs, won a game, and then lost to one of the best franchises of the last decade. Tom Brady is 17-6 in the playoffs. The Patriots have left a lot of teams feeling defeated in the playoffs over the years. There is no shame in it. The Texans just have to learn how to consistently compete at that level.

Chastising fans for being excited about 11-1 is kinda' silly. It was an exciting time to be a Texans fan. It was fun. You know, the whole point of being a fan. While I had concerns how how they were winning, the point was that they were on the winning side of things. That, in and of itself, absorbs a lot of criticism.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 04:42 PM
We were 11-1 at one point. I don't care about the margin of scores in those wins. This ain't the BCS. "Quality of wins" means nothing in the NFL.

11-1 was progression, regardless of how the season ended.

The Texans now need to learn how to finish seasons strong. They have learned how to win. They beat teams they were supposed to beat, and they only lost to playoff teams. When compared to previous Texans teams, this is improvement.

True regression to me is missing the playoffs this season. It's clear. It's not debatable. But that did not happen. We made the playoffs, won a game, and then lost to one of the best franchises of the last decade. Tom Brady is 17-6 in the playoffs. The Patriots have left a lot of teams feeling defeated in the playoffs over the years. There is no shame in it. The Texans just have to learn how to consistently compete at that level.

Chastising fans for being excited about 11-1 is kinda' silly. It was an exciting time to be a Texans fan. It was fun. You know, the whole point of being a fan. While I had concerns how how they were winning, the point was that they were on the winning side of things. That, in and of itself, absorbs a lot of criticism.

Excellent post.

Part of being a fan should be enjoying success when it happens. As a fanbase, we've been so traumatized over the years that we've lost sight of that.

Rey
01-15-2013, 04:51 PM
Excellent post.

Part of being a fan should be enjoying success when it happens. As a fanbase, we've been so traumatized over the years that we've lost sight of that.

There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 04:57 PM
There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.

Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.

HJam72
01-15-2013, 04:59 PM
Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.

The AFCC in....79?....and 35-3. That's why.

HJam72
01-15-2013, 05:01 PM
I don't really think it's regression; I think we just cannot beat a team with a superstar QB who is on his game. We beat Denver early in the season, but Peyton wasn't really 100% yet, at least not in all ways. He was gradually playing better. Luck is going to be a serious, long-term problem if we don't get that behind us, but you all know that.

Most of the time, our offense is not explosive enough to win high-scoring games, AND THERE WILL BE HIGH-SCORING GAMES--YOU CANNOT EXPECT A DEFENSE TO COMPLETELY SHUT THAT OFF IN EVERY GAME ALL THE TIME. You have to score in this league, and you have to replace whoever is not getting the job done so that you can score.

Hey, if we want to win wild-card play-off games, this plan is a good one--not so much for SBs.

thunderkyss
01-15-2013, 05:05 PM
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!

Guilty...

Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.

Did you see Danieal Manning running back the opening kick-off? That was the Texans...

We just ran out of gas.

Texcore
01-15-2013, 05:06 PM
I wouldn't call it regression. I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.

Simply put, as is, we are not a team that can compete with prolific offenses such as the Pats and Packers. Sure we can beat the teams we are suppose to beat, but that doesn't mean much when you are bounced out of the playoffs by an elite team with an elite QB

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
I wouldn't call it regression. I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.

Simply put, as is, we are not a team that can compete with prolific offenses such as the Pats and Packers. Sure we can beat the teams we are suppose to beat, but that doesn't mean much when you are bounced out of the playoffs by an elite team with an elite QB

That's not a problem with Schaub and Kubiak, that's a problem with the defense.

Our defense generally played well against QBs who hesitated or who were slow making their reads. But against QBs they couldn't shake, QBs that made quick reads and good decisions, we got our asses kicked. Except for Watt, we were not consistently getting a good pass rush. Our OLBs (and our ILBs) have to do a better job of getting pressure and forcing bad throws. When you do get to someone like Rodgers, you can't let him get away like Barwin did.

Our defense has to play better against elite QBs. Because even if you DO have an elite QB on your side, if your defense can't stop the guy on the other side, you're going to lose anyway. Brady and Belichik have been finding that out the past few years. Peyton and the Colts found that out several times against Brady and the Patriots and then against Brees and the Saints.

badboy
01-15-2013, 05:37 PM
For me it was seeing more of what we could be and then being forced to recognize what we are. Facts (as I see them):

We did not have Schaub last few games of 2011 due to injury. We did not have Schaub last few games of 2012 due to shellshock.

Neither Wade Phillips or Gary Kubiak has a game plan for more than 2-3 games that takes the opponent out for entire game.

We play to not lose rather than to win and rarely deviate regardless of score.

If our star RB fumbles he can be removed from game. If our star WR or QB or LT drop an in the gut pass or fumbles or allows a sack that could cause QB to leave game or causes a fumble, these three do not leave game.

On defense or returns we do not have a policy of "don't stand there, block someone."

In response to OP, I think we have a very good team that needs to add quality depth that can give 75% of what an injured starter would have given. We are not there yet. Good news is we now have a perrenial playoff contender. Bad news we don't have a final two team. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Houston Rockets.

badboy
01-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Thread is about team progress and such so those aren't Matt's stats. Those are Texans offensive stats.Sorry to be contrary but your post has passing and rushing stats individually so passing stats would be Matt's correct? Don't think Yates ten yards effect our passing stats. So if not Schaub's passing stats, whose are they. No arguing just trying to understand you comment. maybe if you posted link to your stats, I can understand.

Corrosion
01-15-2013, 05:56 PM
I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.



Why do they have to be joined at the hip .... why cant one get credit for taking the other , dispite his limitations and making a three time pro bowler out of him.

You morons act like Gary is under center ..... going fetal when a defender gets near or .... fumbling off his own thigh.


After seeing what he was able to get out of a noodle armed statue , wouldnt you like to see what he could do with a real talent at the position?

Double Barrel
01-15-2013, 06:06 PM
There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.

I agree with probably 95% of your takes, but have to disagree with this one.

As previously mentioned, 35-3. Before that date, I LIVED with the Oilers. My moods on Mondays were based on the performance of the Oilers the previous day. Yeah, it's a somewhat superficial existence to allow a sporting event to dictate my emotions, but I was young and full of hardcore belief as I lived vicariously through my football team.

After 35-3...well, immediate aftermath was a two week depression. Not kidding at all, I was down and out. That experience sucked it out of me. I was shell shocked as a football fan. It was mind-boggling to see such a powerful team melt down in less than two quarters. That stuff is never supposed to happen, which is why it is considered such a landmark game. I still get a knot in my stomach when I see it on NFL Network. Sometimes I watch the first half, but most of the time I change the channel.

Long shot after 35-3 was a complete paradigm shift. I will never put myself in the position to have so much of my emotions riding on something that I have not even the slightest control. Which is honestly a good thing. It's not healthy. It's probably some sort of mental condition to be that way, so invested in a sports team that your mood and emotions are influenced by it. It worked out okay, but a big part of my cynical nature as a Houston football fan comes from the Oilers, both as a kid and as a young adult.

So yeah, traumatized defined as "subject to lasting shock as a result of an emotionally disturbing experience" is not a myth. Might be overstated at times, but serious reflection on my own life is that, on some levels, it can be traumatic if you allow too much of your self to be absorbed in it.

I truly think the reason why Houston fans did not respond to their team moving like Cleveland fans did was 35-3. Well, that and an a-hole owner, but mostly just the monumental failure at Buffalo.

thunderkyss
01-15-2013, 06:14 PM
That's not a problem with Schaub and Kubiak, that's a problem with the defense.

Our defense generally played well against QBs who hesitated or who were slow making their reads. But against QBs they couldn't shake, QBs that made quick reads and good decisions, we got our asses kicked.

I think it's in their heads. They hear & believe all the stuff the fans believe, "ooo he's Tom Brady.. ooo he's Aaron Rogers."

Big deal. All we've got to do is beat Wes Welker, Shane Vareen, & Aaron Hernandez...... & that's the way they need to look at it. Brady can't protect himself (Jj Watt showed us that) & he can't catch his own passes. & he don't run the ball.

Wolf
01-15-2013, 06:49 PM
Defensively the loss of Ryan's through trade and Cushing through injury regressed the defense.

Last year there was some swagger and attitude, I felt the defense could hold a team to below 20 points. I was more worried about if the offense could put more than 20 points up. (when injuries hit).

This year I honestly didn't relax much on gameday second half of the season. I didn't know what team was going to show up.

Offensively, I dont know what is going through Kubiak's mind. When this offense was on attack mode(granted it was comeback against Detroit and the Jags) and Schaub was in rhythm it seemed ,to me, that passing set the running game up nicely.

Vance87
01-15-2013, 07:03 PM
I disagree with that.

I think we had a tougher schedule this year than we did last year. Just by record, our opponents this year were 127-129 while last year they were 116-140.

We had a 4-4 record against teams with winning records this year and those teams had a combined record of 88-40 and a 3-2 record against winning teams last year and they had a combined record of 64-32.

Last year was the year where we were feasting on weak opponents.

We actually had the toughest schedule in the AFC this year, believe it or not.

Nawzer
01-15-2013, 07:14 PM
No regression in the win column, but ceiling has been reached. The last six games of last year and the last six games of this year speak for themselves.

^This. Schaub has reached his ceiling and I can't see that he's going to get any better at 32. It's not like all of a sudden he's going to develop a rifle arm or become a mobile QB. So, in that regard I'm not expecting any sort of improvement from Schaub other than making better reads which he has shown he can't do consistently over the course of his career as a Texan. He has thrown crucial back breaking interceptions over and over for many number of years and that's a trend I don't see changing. Also, maybe he can develop better pocket presence and get some help from a psychologist to overcome his fear of getting knocked down. But I'm expecting Schaub to be well...Schaub again next year. Therefore, other facets of the team has to improve drastically for us to progress and not be on this regression path.

The most important thing the Texans can do to improve the team is for Gary "The Offensive Genius" Kubiak to realize that his offense has been figured out. Yeah he's limited by Schaub's lack of mobility and decreasing arm strength, but he HAS to modify his offense. He has to implement more of an uptempo style. Like I said in another thread, evolve or die.

Lastly, the defense needs to get better. As is right now, we're a good defense but we rely on the spectacular plays too often and depend on Watt to make plays for us too often. We need to become a defense like the Ravens and 49'ers who can just lineup and straight up stop your offense dead with no special or gimmick plays needed. Basically, we need to have a stonewall type of defense where big plays such as interceptions, sacks, and force fumbles are not the only things we can rely on.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 07:18 PM
Defensively the loss of Ryan's through trade and Cushing through injury regressed the defense.

Last year there was some swagger and attitude, I felt the defense could hold a team to below 20 points. I was more worried about if the offense could put more than 20 points up. (when injuries hit).

This year I honestly didn't relax much on gameday second half of the season. I didn't know what team was going to show up.

Offensively, I dont know what is going through Kubiak's mind. When this offense was on attack mode(granted it was comeback against Detroit and the Jags) and Schaub was in rhythm it seemed ,to me, that passing set the running game up nicely.

How about the Broncos game earlier this year?

Wolf
01-15-2013, 07:33 PM
Broncos game. Defensively, still had our Swagger, Manning was still eating used to the offense.

Where Matt pulled those long bombs out,I don't know but I love it,(where that kind of playcalling or reads go)Maybe teams needed more Gamefilm on our right side of the line, not sure. foster ad 25 carries for 105 yards, Tate wasn't in Kubiak's doghouse and ad 8 carries For 26.
Down he stretch I'd say no way we beat the ponies (if we played)

But I did enjoying kicking their ass in Denve

Textan
01-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.
Ya, what HJam72 said, plus the fact many of us grew up with the Oilers never reaching perfection. Our team's history doesn't even include an AFC Championship title.
It's much easier to have faith in a team that's reached and won a Super Bowl or two. Cowboys have, Forty Niners have.
In regards to the regression Vs. progression, I can say I was a whole lot more excited after last year's play off run Vs. this years Play Off run. I sincerely believed the Texans would go all the way this year, or at the very least further.
I don't have the same optimism for next year that I did the previous season.
My opinion, just seems like other teams, especially the elite teams, have figured out Kubiak. I believe the system relies on a QB that has no scrambling ability, which makes us somewhat predictable. We've all seen what a QB like Kaepernick/Wilson can do for your offense. Just opens up so many doors and keeps the defense on their heals. Texans don't have that. So often if Foster can't gain decent yardage our offense becomes very predictable and ineffective.
The defense also collapsed this last month or so. Gave up way too many points. Is Wade a one season wonder like some have suggested?
Honestly after Schaubs interception this last game I couldn't watch anymore.
Had some buddies, who live all over the U.S., ask me WTH was your team doing huddling up down by so many points with time ticking away? Your QB was looking over at the sideline as if he were lost, does your team not have a hurry up offense?
I know Kubiak will be back. I know Schaub will be back. Personally, I believe both have reached their pinnacle. I would love to be wrong.