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View Full Version : Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?


gary
01-15-2013, 12:39 PM
Or will the team finally advance? Thoughts?

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 12:42 PM
Or will the team finally advance? Thoughts?

No I think Kubiak will get them to an AFC Championship, even if by accident or inspite of his play calling...

Any further than that? Very seriously doubt it...

Thorn
01-15-2013, 12:44 PM
As a head coach, Kubiak can win a Super Bowl ONLY if he has a talent filled team with no injuries.

Kubiak does not have what it takes to be a true head coach and improvise with the talent at hand. He just isn't and never will be. Which is why we'll probably have a dozen AFCS titles to our name and no trips to the Super Bowl.

Vinny
01-15-2013, 12:46 PM
Or will the team finally advance? Thoughts?

he is supposed to be an offensive guru but it sure looks like the other NFL teams are driving sports cars while we ride Amish style. Watching the other teams ramp it up and go no huddle and actually attack down-field when they fall behind has me envious. Just watching the casual way this team was in fully mosey in that long 4th quarter drive was enough to harden my opinion on Schaubiak.

Playoffs
01-15-2013, 12:47 PM
Didn't work out too well the last time a Houston owner fired the Head Coach (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19810102&id=wQYgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rGQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1317,99529) after going to the playoffs.

steelbtexan
01-15-2013, 12:49 PM
Nope, Gary will always fill Reliant, until that stops happening dont expect much/if any changes.

Vinny
01-15-2013, 12:50 PM
Didn't work out too well the last time a Houston owner fired the Head Coach (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19810102&id=wQYgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rGQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1317,99529) after going to the playoffs.Second best team in the league those years were the Oilers. The AFC title game was always the Super Bowl...Pittsburgh beating the NFC team was just a formality. This Texan team isn't that good.

steelbtexan
01-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Didn't work out too well the last time a Houston owner fired the Head Coach (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19810102&id=wQYgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rGQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1317,99529) after going to the playoffs.

Yep,

Living in fear of mistakes made in the past is going to make the future so much brighter. (Sarcasm)

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 12:53 PM
Only if our owner is Bud Adams.

OR.

If we have a decade of 2nd round losses.

Take this objectively. Take the Texans out of the equation and think about other teams.

Would you have fired Mike Smith at Atlanta after getting to the playoffs several years in a row and losing their first game? Would you have fired Bill Cowher after years of not being able to "win the big one"? Would you have fired Tony Dungy for the same thing?

Before people jump on me and say "you're not mentioning Kubiak in the same sentence as Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy", yes... I am.

McNair wants to follow the Pittsburgh model. And part of that model is being patient with your coaches and general manager and allowing them to assemble the talent and build a franchise that will have a certain mind-set. The Steelers were very patient with Cowher. A lot of people in Pittsburgh wanted him fired because he couldn't win the big game.

We're a young organization and a young team. We're building tradition. We've had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. We've been to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and won our division 2 seasons in a row. We've gone 2-2 in playoff games the past 2 years. We took a slight step back this year (even though we have a better record). We have to learn how to improve as we re-tool and prepare for the next season.

Blowing this up now because some fans are frustrated with playcalling is... well... it's not smart and very short sighted.

Thorn
01-15-2013, 12:56 PM
Didn't work out too well the last time a Houston owner fired the Head Coach (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19810102&id=wQYgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rGQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1317,99529) after going to the playoffs.

Can't compare Kubiak and Bum Phillips. Bum was BY FAR the better coach, and more publicy popular. While some fans would be upset with Kubiak being fired, it'd probably have as much to do with any real avaliable prospects to replace him with than being upset he's gone.

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 01:06 PM
Only if our owner is Bud Adams.

OR.

If we have a decade of 2nd round losses.

Take this objectively. Take the Texans out of the equation and think about other teams.

Would you have fired Mike Smith at Atlanta after getting to the playoffs several years in a row and losing their first game? Would you have fired Bill Cowher after years of not being able to "win the big one"? Would you have fired Tony Dungy for the same thing?

Before people jump on me and say "you're not mentioning Kubiak in the same sentence as Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy", yes... I am.

McNair wants to follow the Pittsburgh model. And part of that model is being patient with your coaches and general manager and allowing them to assemble the talent and build a franchise that will have a certain mind-set. The Steelers were very patient with Cowher. A lot of people in Pittsburgh wanted him fired because he couldn't win the big game.

We're a young organization and a young team. We're building tradition. We've had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. We've been to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and won our division 2 seasons in a row. We've gone 2-2 in playoff games the past 2 years. We took a slight step back this year (even though we have a better record). We have to learn how to improve as we re-tool and prepare for the next season.

Blowing this up now because some fans are frustrated with playcalling is... well... it's not smart and very short sighted.

Dungy did get fired for that reason though. Could get Tampa to the playoffs, but couldn't win the big one. Lost in the playoffs in 99-2000-2001 then got let go and went to Indy and Gruden came in, took Dungy's players and won a Super Bowl...

Cowher needed a QB, when he finally got one, Super Bowl...Had Mike Smith lost that game to Seattle, I think Blank would have started looking for other options...

I don't think the Texans have neither the coach nor the QB to win it all...

fiasco west
01-15-2013, 01:09 PM
Only if our owner is Bud Adams.

OR.

If we have a decade of 2nd round losses.

Take this objectively. Take the Texans out of the equation and think about other teams.

Would you have fired Mike Smith at Atlanta after getting to the playoffs several years in a row and losing their first game? Would you have fired Bill Cowher after years of not being able to "win the big one"? Would you have fired Tony Dungy for the same thing?

Before people jump on me and say "you're not mentioning Kubiak in the same sentence as Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy", yes... I am.

McNair wants to follow the Pittsburgh model. And part of that model is being patient with your coaches and general manager and allowing them to assemble the talent and build a franchise that will have a certain mind-set. The Steelers were very patient with Cowher. A lot of people in Pittsburgh wanted him fired because he couldn't win the big game.

We're a young organization and a young team. We're building tradition. We've had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. We've been to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and won our division 2 seasons in a row. We've gone 2-2 in playoff games the past 2 years. We took a slight step back this year (even though we have a better record). We have to learn how to improve as we re-tool and prepare for the next season.

Blowing this up now because some fans are frustrated with playcalling is... well... it's not smart and very short sighted.

Rep for this.

:bravo:

ThaShark316
01-15-2013, 01:14 PM
Dungy did get fired for that reason though. Could get Tampa to the playoffs, but couldn't win the big one. Lost in the playoffs in 99-2000-2001 then got let go and went to Indy and Gruden came in, took Dungy's players and won a Super Bowl...

Cowher needed a QB, when he finally got one, Super Bowl...Had Mike Smith lost that game to Seattle, I think Blank would have started looking for other options...

I don't think the Texans have neither the coach nor the QB to win it all...

But see, Gruden was let go because of mediocrity...so was it coaching, or was it "They already had the players"? Take it from me, I was Bucs all day before the Texans came around. Dungy was unjustly fired, btw. But owners like Glazer are the worst kinds of owners to have.

Gruden never coached big time QBs. He turned QBs into much better players, but never got his hands on the elite of the elite. (Gannon was "ehh" before Gruden, for example)

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 01:20 PM
But see, Gruden was let go because of mediocrity...so was it coaching, or was it "They already had the players"? Take it from me, I was Bucs all day before the Texans came around. Dungy was unjustly fired, btw. But owners like Glazer are the worst kinds of owners to have.

Gruden never coached big time QBs. He turned QBs into much better players, but never got his hands on the elite of the elite. (Gannon was "ehh" before Gruden, for example)

I can agree with that, but Dungy was fired because of the failures in the playoffs. That was the reason for his unjust firing...

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Gruden traded to the Bucs and not fired? Could have sworn Tampa had to give up picks to get Gruden out from under contract with the Raiders...

Specnatz
01-15-2013, 01:21 PM
Dungy did get fired for that reason though. Could get Tampa to the playoffs, but couldn't win the big one. Lost in the playoffs in 99-2000-2001 then got let go and went to Indy and Gruden came in, took Dungy's players and won a Super Bowl...

Cowher needed a QB, when he finally got one, Super Bowl...Had Mike Smith lost that game to Seattle, I think Blank would have started looking for other options...

I don't think the Texans have neither the coach nor the QB to win it all...

You forgot to mention he beat a Raiders team who he had coached the previous year. He knew the personnel and for the most part the schemes.

ThaShark316
01-15-2013, 01:27 PM
I can agree with that, but Dungy was fired because of the failures in the playoffs. That was the reason for his unjust firing...

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Gruden traded to the Bucs and not fired? Could have sworn Tampa had to give up picks to get Gruden out from under contract with the Raiders...

Oh, not from the Raiders; from the Bucs. I should have been more specific, my bad.

Dungy got screwed. 99 the Bucs get robbed. 2000 and 2001, the Eagles owned them. Eventually (like Seattle and the Rockets), you figure out your main problem and destroy it.

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 01:35 PM
Oh, not from the Raiders; from the Bucs. I should have been more specific, my bad.

Dungy got screwed. 99 the Bucs get robbed. 2000 and 2001, the Eagles owned them. Eventually (like Seattle and the Rockets), you figure out your main problem and destroy it.

Yes you are correct, Gruden basically lost control of the Ferrari and ran it up a tree in Tampa. Chris Simms? Really?

back to what Neck was saying, his statement was basically, don't give up on a young team. to which in a way, I agree. Texans are young, however, how long can you wait for this young talent to develop under this regime? Cowher was in Pitt for a very long time before getting to the dance and winning it.

I think, with Kubiak, it is a Catch 22. You wait too long, you have wasted the best years of your young players careers and nothing to show for it...Too soon, Kubiak goes to say, Denver, where I think he will eventually end up, and win it all and now you have fans saying, "Texans should have been patient"

Double Barrel
01-15-2013, 01:40 PM
The only "downfall of Kubiak" that I could ever envision would be the inevitable cycle that teams go through and McNair is forced to sacrifice his head coach due to an abysmal record.

I do not see McNair ever firing Kubiak after a playoff year. Never.

I think Kubiak is a good enough head coach to keep his team in the playoffs for awhile, though, which will keep him in the driver seat for many years to come.

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 01:42 PM
The only "downfall of Kubiak" that I could ever envision would be the inevitable cycle that teams go through and McNair is forced to sacrifice his head coach due to an abysmal record.

I do not see McNair ever firing Kubiak after a playoff year. Never.

I think Kubiak is a good enough head coach to keep his team in the playoffs for awhile, though, which will keep him in the driver seat for many years to come.

Ugh, so this is what Chicago Bears fans felt with 9 years of Lovie Smith....:toropalm:

welsh texan
01-15-2013, 01:48 PM
owners like Glazer are the worst kinds of owners to have.



I've got to point out at this comment that the Glazers are on the verge of taking United to the next level over here though. You look at some of the transfer moves they've made, they've been bold in the transfer market time and again, and despite the uproar when they mortgaged the team to buy itself, a lot of the fans have now shut up because they see the money is being put in to keep the team winning. Wait and see in a few years once they've finished repaying the loans how quickly they'll expand that south stand at OT, it'll add over 20,000 extra seats taking the capacity up above 100k, at monumental cost due to them having to canter lever the entire thing backwards over a railway line and into the housing estate behind, yet as soon as they do that no other team on the planet will be able to compete with them financially.

Sound businessmen who find a way to invest in the team where it has an impact. Maybe they've taken their eye off the ball with the bucs somewhat over the past few years but then again the NFL franchises are set up to make a fortune regardless of success while a side like United have to stay at the top if they are to make money.

I don't see them panicking like abramovic or the sheiks at city just because Ferguson fell short in a given year. I really don't think you can berate them for changing to a HC that brought the fans an SB.

Surreal McCoy
01-15-2013, 01:52 PM
Only if our owner is Bud Adams.

OR.

If we have a decade of 2nd round losses.

Take this objectively. Take the Texans out of the equation and think about other teams.

Would you have fired Mike Smith at Atlanta after getting to the playoffs several years in a row and losing their first game? Would you have fired Bill Cowher after years of not being able to "win the big one"? Would you have fired Tony Dungy for the same thing?

Before people jump on me and say "you're not mentioning Kubiak in the same sentence as Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy", yes... I am.

McNair wants to follow the Pittsburgh model. And part of that model is being patient with your coaches and general manager and allowing them to assemble the talent and build a franchise that will have a certain mind-set. The Steelers were very patient with Cowher. A lot of people in Pittsburgh wanted him fired because he couldn't win the big game.

We're a young organization and a young team. We're building tradition. We've had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. We've been to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and won our division 2 seasons in a row. We've gone 2-2 in playoff games the past 2 years. We took a slight step back this year (even though we have a better record). We have to learn how to improve as we re-tool and prepare for the next season.

Blowing this up now because some fans are frustrated with playcalling is... well... it's not smart and very short sighted.

Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

:ahhaha:

Corrosion
01-15-2013, 01:55 PM
No I think Kubiak will get them to an AFC Championship, even if by accident or inspite of his play calling...

Any further than that? Very seriously doubt it...

I guess you missed all the draws and screens the frickin Pats ran on Sunday .... It aint the play calling , its the inability of a couple players to execute. I wont name names. Hey should I throw it away on 3rd down ?! Or try to make a play! You think a fumble off my thigh is a good idea ?!

Beletrick has "All World" Tom Freakin Brady .... Kubiak is stuck with the "elite" Matt Club Foot Noodle Arm Schaub. :rake:

Corrosion
01-15-2013, 01:57 PM
Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

:ahhaha:

Im 44 .... that team has had four coaches in my lifetime , one of them retired when I was ..... One.



But .... if you recall what Bob McNair said , if there was a team he would like to emulate , it would be the Steelers because of their stability.

Can you argue with the amount of Lombardi Trophy's they have accumulated ?!

Surreal McCoy
01-15-2013, 02:05 PM
Im 44 .... that team has had four coaches in my lifetime , one of them retired when I was ..... One.



But .... if you recall what Bob McNair said , if there was a team he would like to emulate , it would be the Steelers because of their stability.

Can you argue with the amount of Lombardi Trophy's they have accumulated ?!

No. Which is why McNair is infinitely better than Bud, Jerrah, Al, Daniel, etc etc,...

Corrosion
01-15-2013, 02:12 PM
No. Which is why McNair is infinitely better than Bud, Jerrah, Al, Daniel, etc etc,...

I rep'd you for the last post .... gotta spread it around. :corrosion:


^^^ Somebody get him for me^^^

ThaShark316
01-15-2013, 02:23 PM
I rep'd you for the last post .... gotta spread it around. :corrosion:


^^^ Somebody get him for me^^^

I hooked him up for you, bro.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2013, 03:27 PM
Dungy did get fired for that reason though. Could get Tampa to the playoffs, but couldn't win the big one. Lost in the playoffs in 99-2000-2001 then got let go and went to Indy and Gruden came in, took Dungy's players and won a Super Bowl...

Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.

handswarmer
01-15-2013, 03:38 PM
Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.

Excellent post- Dungy's approach was one of slow but steady improvement, getting the right players, and establishing a system. Cjuckie only got lucky because he was able to manipulate a qb TO ACHIEVE FOR ONE YEAR.

Double Barrel
01-15-2013, 03:48 PM
Ugh, so this is what Chicago Bears fans felt with 9 years of Lovie Smith....:toropalm:

yep, pretty much. Or think the Bengals fans with Marvin Lewis. BUT, at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games. And a couple of division "championships". So we've got that. :tiphat:

Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

:ahhaha:

uhhh....Cowher got his team to the Super Bowl in his fourth season. Are we really going to act like this is nothing because they lost it? Most Texans fans (including me) would give Kubiak a life contract for taking a Houston football team to the Super Bowl.

I'm not a Cowher Power fan. I like the coach, but I think he's been out of the NFL for too long.

However, I think what he did with the Steelers was pretty cool. He took a team that had been struggling for years to the playoffs in his first year as HC (only one of two coaches that took his team to the playoffs for the first six years of his tenure).

What really gets me, though, is this record: Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points. Let's not act like this is nothing. That's a pretty awesome record.

Gary Kubiak is 61-55 after seven seasons. Not the same at all. I'm not slamming Kubiak, but I think it's a little disingenuous and hard on Texans fans to act like they do not have a leg to stand on.

Surreal McCoy
01-15-2013, 03:48 PM
Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.

Can not rep this enough. It's not just about one year, it's about having a shot every year, or at least most years. That's what great teams do.

Surreal McCoy
01-15-2013, 03:58 PM
uhhh....Cowher got his team to the Super Bowl in his fourth season. Are we really going to act like this is nothing because they lost it? Most Texans fans (including me) would give Kubiak a life contract for taking a Houston football team to the Super Bowl.

Right. DB, I understand what you're saying here and it's sensible when taken out of context. The context I'm referring to is for years, everyone, especially this forum, have repeated to a man, "Kubiak will never get this team to the playoffs. I just want one playoff game before I die". Then, when it became obvious last season we would indeed see our first playoff game the goalposts were shifted, "We will never win a playoff game with Kubiak". This year, the new mantra is, "The only thing that counts is the SB". I think it's rather an exaggeration to imply TT would be happy if the Texans simply made the SB - don't you? There would be loads of people moaning that this "was our only chance" and "Kubes blew it". As confirmed by the TT faithful, the only thing that matters is winning it all - the view from 2nd place is the same as last place. There is an agenda, but its a rather silly one not based on facts. The team is progressing, whether folks want to admit it or not.



What really gets me, though, is this record: Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points. Let's not act like this is nothing. That's a pretty awesome record.

I think that's a pretty impressive record. Remember, we're trying to build from scratch where Cowher had all the essential tools to support him...and it still took 14 years.

Double Barrel
01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Right. DB, I understand what you're saying here and it's sensible when taken out of context. The context I'm referring to is for years, everyone, especially this forum, have repeated to a man, "Kubiak will never get this team to the playoffs. I just want one playoff game before I die". Then, when it became obvious last season we would indeed see our first playoff game the goalposts were shifted, "We will never win a playoff game with Kubiak". This year, the new mantra is, "The only thing that counts is the SB". I think it's rather an exaggeration to imply TT would be happy if the Texans simply made the SB - don't you? There would be loads of people moaning that this "was our only chance" and "Kubes blew it". As confirmed by the TT faithful, the only thing that matters is winning it all - the view from 2nd place is the same as last place. There is an agenda, but its a rather silly one not based on facts. The team is progressing, whether folks want to admit it or not.


yeah, I see where you are coming from. People's expectations tend to change with success. It's not necessarily good or bad, but most likely a by-product of human nature.

I see an upward trend with Kubiak's tenure. It's slow and gradual, but onward and upward so far.

Some folks think this year was basically the same as last, but I disagree. I see 'baby steps' with this franchise (maddening for the impatient fan).

The Texans are still doing "firsts". 2012 was the first time they were front runners in the NFL. For the first time, NFL analysts were considering our team to be one of the best (up until the Pats game and the aftermath). It was the first time they had HFA within their reach, even if they failed to capture (maybe a first for next year?).

So yeah, they are progressing, just a bit slower than a lot of fans would like. And when compared to other teams that seemingly do it overnight, it feels like wait for water to boil.

I feel confident in thinking that Kubiak will get us to at least an AFC championship game. I cannot really say what I think after that point, but I think we will be playoff team for many years to come. And playing in January is always good, even if we feel like perpetual underdogs to the top teams.

p.s. I agree with you in general with the franchise that Cowher inherited when compared to the 2-14 expansion team that Kubiak took over. Both fruit, but apples and oranges.

Hervoyel
01-15-2013, 05:43 PM
Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

:ahhaha:


We're halfway there.