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PockyAF
01-14-2013, 02:04 AM
Video on his first start vs. ATL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCPrSn6YL0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Barring a coaching change; I'm fairly certain this is who Kubiak is grooming to be Schaub sucessor.. hopefully sooner rather than later (ala Kaep over Smith).

Now, I don't have much of a good memory, but from the traits I remember from him when I saw him play was he had a strong arm, was mobile, good pocket awareness, and seem pretty smart.

His decision making wasn't the best, but he flashed tons of potential.. and this was all in his rookie year.

So, what are you thoughts on him? Future QB of this franchise, yay or nay?

Rufus Jarvis
01-14-2013, 02:14 AM
He has a strong arm.

Marcus
01-14-2013, 02:23 AM
I'd rather have him a QB next season than Schaub, I know that.

Yates played like a rookie last season, because guess what? He WAS one! I think his detractors still haven't come to grips with that. He didn't do anything last year that Tony Romo doesn't do EVERY year. (throw it up for grabs)

Now having said that, the trend in the NFL is moving to more mobility at QB. Schaub was slower than molasses even before he broke his foot, and even though he might not have been limping on it during the season, (I was watching for that) his drive off his plant foot didn't seem to be there. And his bootlegs, or his version of it, drive me nuts.

They need an upgrade. Not optimistic it'll happen though.

Wolf6151
01-14-2013, 02:25 AM
I'd love to see Yates get a real chance to be our future QB but as long as Kubiak is here I don't think it will happen. Yates has a better arm, better athleticism, mobility, more confidence, pocket awarness, and seemed to be fairly intelligent, ie: he learned our system quickly last season. What he lacks is experience. But we just re-signed Schaub to a 4 yr. contract and I expect that he'll do at least the first 3 yrs. of it here in Houston. As much as I'd like to see a change at QB, it ain't happening any time soon.

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 02:31 AM
If Schaub would of had this talent around him 2-3 years ago i have no doubt he could lead us to a Superbowl, the sad thing is that this is not that Schaub anymore.

Yates has all the tools to be a great QB and the biggest thing he has that i like in him is confidence ! Its the way he carries himself even after a bad play fans can sense that and players around you can sense that. Yates as a rookie had more confidence than Schaub does as a vet which is sad but true.

Kubiak better give the kid a chance or figure something out, cause unless this team continues to draft as good as they have, with all the cap issues this teams window is closing rather quickly i'm afraid.

Premier
01-14-2013, 03:15 AM
im at the point that if kubiak wont even make it a competition, i hope schaub finds his way to the IR next season.. its a long shot that we have found the next tom brady in yates, but sitting on our hands waiting for schaub to show up is just wasting time.. schaubs peak(with a top 10 defense) is 11-13 wins, division round fluff..

SAMURAITEXAN
01-14-2013, 03:39 AM
Video on his first start vs. ATL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCPrSn6YL0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Barring a coaching change; I'm fairly certain this is who Kubiak is grooming to be Schaub sucessor.. hopefully sooner rather than later (ala Kaep over Smith).

Now, I don't have much of a good memory, but from the traits I remember from him when I saw him play was he had a strong arm, was mobile, good pocket awareness, and seem pretty smart.

His decision making wasn't the best, but he flashed tons of potential.. and this was all in his rookie year.

So, what are you thoughts on him? Future QB of this franchise, yay or nay?
Thanks for video Pocky! I remember this game. Make me feel much better today thank you.

ObsiWan
01-14-2013, 03:49 AM
Not buying it. Not after what I saw this preseason and during the short stints Yates has had this season in live action - remember the Minnesota game??

There's always a chance he makes a leap this off-season so I'm in wait and see mode with him.

I'd like to see us open the #2 QB job to Keenum and Yates and let them battle for it. If Yates is really everything you guys say he is, he should have no trouble keeping his job. If not....

In my fantasy world, I'd open the #1 QB job up for all three of them; let the best guy win. And to be fair, I'd tell them that on the day everyone is cleaning out their locker. That way all three get the same chance to work their asses off during the off-season and get ready for the competition.

If Schaub wants to keep his job, he'll know he's going up against two hungry youngsters who want his spot so he better damned well step up.

leebigeztx
01-14-2013, 03:52 AM
Case is not even a backup in the nfl. He has 0 special qualities.

ATXtexanfan
01-14-2013, 03:56 AM
Gotta hope kubiak gives him a shot and that he puts in the work

Lurvinator11
01-14-2013, 04:07 AM
Here's my deal with Yates.

Sure, you can look at last year. Cheer about the accomplishments, of beating the Falcons, and the Bengals twice. But what about the losses? He barely did anything against a young Carolina team, who only had 1 win on the road, and then he could only put up 13 points against the worst team in the league, the Colts. If I'm correct, didn't they have a really bad defense that year too? Of course he went out early against Tennessee, and we won't count the Ravens game either, since it was the Ravens. Although, he did throw three picks in that game, and stared down Johnson the entire game.

But no, let's look at his wins. He had a couple of bright spots against the Falcons. Hitting a 50 yard pass to Johnson in stride looked good. Putting up 17 was pretty nice. Although, that victory really belonged to the defense and the fans. Defense held matty ice to 10 points, and the fans were loud as hell in that game. To say Yates won that game by himself, is just overlooking other factors.

Then you have the two games against the Bengals. For starters, the fact that we won that first game was nothing short of a miracle. It was awesome, don't get me wrong, but Yates and the offense couldn't do anything until the second half. He redeemed himself with that magical drive, so I'll give him credit for that. Aside from that, he was lackluster in that game. In the playoff game, he played better, but still made what could have been costly mistakes. Defense played lights out in that game, and Foster ran like a mad man.

Yates did what he needed to do, but when it comes to being a starter, he won't cut it. Now, you can look at last year and say he played like a rookie because he was. Sure, I'll take that. What about this year?

Well, in the two games that he saw action, he ran in a TD against NE and their backups. Aside from that, he had two turnovers in total. A fumble off of a blindside hit, and an INT against GB. Now you can counter by saying the games were a lost cause, but let me counter with this. When you're a backup, you do whatever it takes to get on the field and stay on the field. That is how you separate the leaders from the rest of the pack. Even if it is a blowout, or you're subbing for an injury, you do whatever it takes to get noticed in a good way. Play as hard as you can, and do what you can to bridge the gap. Coaches will notice, whether it is your team, or another team that is in need of a starting QB. Look at SF, or Seattle. the 49ers had just signed Smith to a deal this offseason, and was doing well. But one injury was all it took for Kapernick to get his shot. He played as hard he could, and look at it now. Although Smith is healthy, it is obvious who the 9ers are sticking with. Same with Wilson in Seattle. Big trade for Matt Flynn, and he doesn't even play a snap this year. Yates does not have that ability in him. He has little awareness, is mistake prone, and just doesn't have that sense of urgency.

I know we all have a special place in our hearts for Yates. I know after Schaubs performance today, many of you will want Yates to replace him. But that just isn't going to happen. Yates is, at best, a backup. He is not the future of this team, and he will not be starting over Schaub next season. Take it for what it is, but that is how it will most likely play out.

Personally, if anyone is the future, I have two scenarios on how that will play out. A). Draft a first round QB in the 2014 draft and groom him for a couple of seasons or B.) Keenum will surprise everyone. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me is Keenum unseated Yates as the backup next season. He would give this offense a new look if he could get some playing time from Schaub. He can run, throw bombs, and has good accuracy. His only issue is he is a little guy. He would need to bulk up a bit, if he is ever serious about getting a starting job.

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 04:33 AM
Here's my deal with Yates.

Sure, you can look at last year. Cheer about the accomplishments, of beating the Falcons, and the Bengals twice. But what about the losses? He barely did anything against a young Carolina team, who only had 1 win on the road, and then he could only put up 13 points against the worst team in the league, the Colts. If I'm correct, didn't they have a really bad defense that year too? Of course he went out early against Tennessee, and we won't count the Ravens game either, since it was the Ravens. Although, he did throw three picks in that game, and stared down Johnson the entire game.

But no, let's look at his wins. He had a couple of bright spots against the Falcons. Hitting a 50 yard pass to Johnson in stride looked good. Putting up 17 was pretty nice. Although, that victory really belonged to the defense and the fans. Defense held matty ice to 10 points, and the fans were loud as hell in that game. To say Yates won that game by himself, is just overlooking other factors.

Then you have the two games against the Bengals. For starters, the fact that we won that first game was nothing short of a miracle. It was awesome, don't get me wrong, but Yates and the offense couldn't do anything until the second half. He redeemed himself with that magical drive, so I'll give him credit for that. Aside from that, he was lackluster in that game. In the playoff game, he played better, but still made what could have been costly mistakes. Defense played lights out in that game, and Foster ran like a mad man.

Yates did what he needed to do, but when it comes to being a starter, he won't cut it. Now, you can look at last year and say he played like a rookie because he was. Sure, I'll take that. What about this year?

Well, in the two games that he saw action, he ran in a TD against NE and their backups. Aside from that, he had two turnovers in total. A fumble off of a blindside hit, and an INT against GB. Now you can counter by saying the games were a lost cause, but let me counter with this. When you're a backup, you do whatever it takes to get on the field and stay on the field. That is how you separate the leaders from the rest of the pack. Even if it is a blowout, or you're subbing for an injury, you do whatever it takes to get noticed in a good way. Play as hard as you can, and do what you can to bridge the gap. Coaches will notice, whether it is your team, or another team that is in need of a starting QB. Look at SF, or Seattle. the 49ers had just signed Smith to a deal this offseason, and was doing well. But one injury was all it took for Kapernick to get his shot. He played as hard he could, and look at it now. Although Smith is healthy, it is obvious who the 9ers are sticking with. Same with Wilson in Seattle. Big trade for Matt Flynn, and he doesn't even play a snap this year. Yates does not have that ability in him. He has little awareness, is mistake prone, and just doesn't have that sense of urgency.

I know we all have a special place in our hearts for Yates. I know after Schaubs performance today, many of you will want Yates to replace him. But that just isn't going to happen. Yates is, at best, a backup. He is not the future of this team, and he will not be starting over Schaub next season. Take it for what it is, but that is how it will most likely play out.

Personally, if anyone is the future, I have two scenarios on how that will play out. A). Draft a first round QB in the 2014 draft and groom him for a couple of seasons or B.) Keenum will surprise everyone. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me is Keenum unseated Yates as the backup next season. He would give this offense a new look if he could get some playing time from Schaub. He can run, throw bombs, and has good accuracy. His only issue is he is a little guy. He would need to bulk up a bit, if he is ever serious about getting a starting job.

On the blindside fumble he was trying to make something happen even though the game was lost.

If AJ had been healthy the whole time Yates was starting i think we would all be seeing yates in a different light. When AJ and yates were playing he had a knack for finding him. Had some damn good play off games with yates throwing him the ball, and what did AJ do this year in the play-offs when he was healthier ?

My point is you cant base what he can do in the future off his rookie year with J Jones as him #1 and KW as his #2 WR and then the few times he came in when the game was out of reach. After how Schaub looked this season would it really be much of a risk to give him a shot ? Hell we only won as many games as we did cause the Defense and Foster but DEF NOT because of Schaub.

Lurvinator11
01-14-2013, 04:48 AM
On the blindside fumble he was trying to make something happen even though the game was lost.

If AJ had been healthy the whole time Yates was starting i think we would all be seeing yates in a different light. When AJ and yates were playing he had a knack for finding him. Had some damn good play off games with yates throwing him the ball, and what did AJ do this year in the play-offs when he was healthier ?

My point is you cant base what he can do in the future off his rookie year with J Jones as him #1 and KW as his #2 WR and then the few times he came in when the game was out of reach. After how Schaub looked this season would it really be much of a risk to give him a shot ? Hell we only won as many games as we did cause the Defense and Foster but DEF NOT because of Schaub.

Really? Denver. Those two long TD passes from Schaub to Walter and Johnson had nothing to do with Schaub. Baltimore. The 43 points we hang on them had nothing to do with Schaub. Jacksonville. the 527 passing yards from Schaub had nothing towards that win. Chicago. The one and only TD pass in the game. Schaub.

I know Schaub had his bad games this year, but to say he was a non factor in this season is just not giving credit at all. It is very easy to over look things when you are angry. A lot of fans are angry with Schaub. I understand that, but when you take away the run game, and when the defense cannot stop a screen pass, what do you think the chances of us winning are in the first place? Schaub made mistakes today, there is no looking around that. But is it on him when Casey drops the go ahead TD pass? Is it on him when our defense cannot stop a nosebleed? Right now we are in our Championship window. We have a good 3 years left IMO. Schaub may not be elite, but it is not worth it to throw Yates in the season, and essentially waste a year. Right now, Scuab gives us the best chance to win. Is it a SB chance? Maybe, maybe not. But out of the three QB's we have, Schaub gives us that opportunity.

For the record, I do believe we can win a SB with Schaub. Everything needs to be clicking at the right time. The running game needs to be more of a threat to keep the defense guessing, and overall, we need to be more aggressive on offense. That falls on Kubiak, but I think we can achieve it, if we try. At the very least, our players need to execute better. I think that will happen. Then again, I might just drink too much koolaid, so what do I know?

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 04:56 AM
Really? Denver. Those two long TD passes from Schaub to Walter and Johnson had nothing to do with Schaub. Baltimore. The 43 points we hang on them had nothing to do with Schaub. Jacksonville. the 527 passing yards from Schaub had nothing towards that win. Chicago. The one and only TD pass in the game. Schaub.

I know Schaub had his bad games this year, but to say he was a non factor in this season is just not giving credit at all. It is very easy to over look things when you are angry. A lot of fans are angry with Schaub. I understand that, but when you take away the run game, and when the defense cannot stop a screen pass, what do you think the chances of us winning are in the first place? Schaub made mistakes today, there is no looking around that. But is it on him when Casey drops the go ahead TD pass? Is it on him when our defense cannot stop a nosebleed? Right now we are in our Championship window. We have a good 3 years left IMO. Schaub may not be elite, but it is not worth it to throw Yates in the season, and essentially waste a year. Right now, Scuab gives us the best chance to win. Is it a SB chance? Maybe, maybe not. But out of the three QB's we have, Schaub gives us that opportunity.

For the record, I do believe we can win a SB with Schaub. Everything needs to be clicking at the right time. The running game needs to be more of a threat to keep the defense guessing, and overall, we need to be more aggressive on offense. That falls on Kubiak, but I think we can achieve it, if we try. At the very least, our players need to execute better. I think that will happen. Then again, I might just drink too much koolaid, so what do I know?

Schaub looked great to start the season but the Defense was causing all kinds of turnovers and constantly gave the O a short field. When the D stopped getting turnovers is when Schaub began to struggle and could not sustain long drives.

Also to start the season he looked more confident he would stand in the pocket and make the throws but it all started the first time we faced the patriots. Suddenly he looked paniced, he would panic when there was not even any pressure.

I agree we can also win a SB with Schaub BUT everything would have to be perfect around him for that to happen. I just dont like the odds of everything going perfect and us finally breaking through ot win it all.

Like i said earlier if we had the Schaub from 2-3 years ago then hell yeah we could go all the way even if everything around him wasnt perfect. But i did not see that player down the stretch and i cant explain why but it just wasnt there.

Lurvinator11
01-14-2013, 05:05 AM
Schaub looked great to start the season but the Defense was causing all kinds of turnovers and constantly gave the O a short field. When the D stopped getting turnovers is when Schaub began to struggle and could not sustain long drives.

Also to start the season he looked more confident he would stand in the pocket and make the throws but it all started the first time we faced the patriots. Suddenly he looked paniced, he would panic when there was not even any pressure.

I agree we can also win a SB with Schaub BUT everything would have to be perfect around him for that to happen. I just dont like the odds of everything going perfect and us finally breaking through ot win it all.

Like i said earlier if we had the Schaub from 2-3 years ago then hell yeah we could go all the way even if everything around him wasnt perfect. But i did not see that player down the stretch and i cant explain why but it just wasnt there.

I agree with most of that. The only thing I would attest to is the fact that we scored on big drives as well, not just from turnovers with short fields. Going back to that Denver game, we went on 90 yard drive that took like 7 minutes off the clock.

For sure, this team was different over the stretch. To be honest, I would rather go through the "sky is falling" post that losing in the beginning of the season would yield, if it meant we would finish hot.

I do like our chances next year. I think our O Line will be better, and as a result, Foster will run better. I cannot explain exactly what happened this season, but all we can hope for now, is that this team learns from it and corrects their mistakes. Make next year even better.

Little tidbit. The Dream didn't win his first NBA championship until his tenth season in the league. The 93-94 season, to be exact. Last I checked, Andre will be going into his tenth season. Maybe we will see history repeat itself in a weird way. Twenty years after the first professional championship in the cities history, a new championship will be brought back.

Textan
01-14-2013, 05:05 AM
The important thing to me, and I'm sure many other fans, was his non-factor stretch in December and these play offs.
Regular season is nice and all, and I do love when the Texans win those games, but I'd take a so so season with us barely squeaking into the play offs, for an outstanding run in the play offs.
Play offs are where it really matters. Everything else is just fluff.
I saw great potential in Yates, especially the regular season game against the Bengals to clinch our first ever play off berth. That winning drive and his incredible scrambling ability is something I've never see from the Sloth called Schaub.
Texans need to give Yates a legitimate shot. We've all seen Schaub, and for the most part, we're sick of him. Sure, there's still a few who will throw out all his incredible stats and say "he's a great QB", but most have seen enough. There's just no defending him anymore, especially after his collapse in December and the play offs.
Nice guy and I wish him the best, but I just want him gone already.

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 05:19 AM
The important thing to me, and I'm sure many other fans, was his non-factor stretch in December and these play offs.
Regular season is nice and all, and I do love when the Texans win those games, but I'd take a so so season with us barely squeaking into the play offs, for an outstanding run in the play offs.
Play offs are where it really matters. Everything else is just fluff.
I saw great potential in Yates, especially the regular season game against the Bengals to clinch our first ever play off berth. That winning drive and his incredible scrambling ability is something I've never see from the Sloth called Schaub.
Texans need to give Yates a legitimate shot. We've all seen Schaub, and for the most part, we're sick of him. Sure, there's still a few who will throw out all his incredible stats and say "he's a great QB", but most have seen enough. There's just no defending him anymore, especially after his collapse in December and the play offs.
Nice guy and I wish him the best, but I just want him gone already.

I have ALWAYS been a big Schaub supporter up until the final stretch of this season. The final 4 games every game was a big game and he was no where to be seen. Thats the moments that define a QB and in big games he has always been a no show !

Txn_in_Oki
01-14-2013, 05:25 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I think last year was Schaub's year and he got robbed. It's too bad because I like the guy, I just don't think it's goin to happen with him running the show.

cdollaz
01-14-2013, 07:35 AM
Hell no on Yates as Schaub's successor. The last thing I want is to waste a few more years on mediocrity.

gtexan02
01-14-2013, 07:38 AM
Yates looked awful in the preseason. Like he had regressed since the year before.
I won't complain if we upgrade the QB position but I don't believe Yates is that guy

Rey
01-14-2013, 07:47 AM
If you can, go back and look at Yates in pre season.

It looked like he was playing behind a high school line with a bunch of new young wr's he was throwing to.

Guys make excuses for schaub because of the line and tj had it much, much worse in pre season. Kubiak even said it was hard to evaluate him because of how poorly the line was playing.

BullNation4Life
01-14-2013, 07:50 AM
If the Texans' best hope for a future QB is TJ Yates...This team is in more trouble than it knows...

Rudyball
01-14-2013, 07:51 AM
If Yates was that much better than Schaub you would see him starting this year, Schaub would not have received an extension and we would have been talking about Yates this year instead of Schaub. But we haven't and that is all the proof you need. There is no "elite" in Yates' or Schaubs' abilities, and that is what we are all looking for. Schaub can't throw accurately on the scramble or really make anything positive happen. These last 6 weeks have shown that very well. He really hasn't been real accurate with his passes those same 6 weeks.

This is Andre on Schaub's accuracy - :scarygirl:

b0ng
01-14-2013, 07:55 AM
Some of you guys are really really high on Yates and I'm not completely sure why.

gtexan02
01-14-2013, 07:56 AM
Some of you guys are really really high on Yates and I'm not completely sure why.

Backups are frequently the most popular players on Nfl teams

BullNation4Life
01-14-2013, 07:57 AM
Backups are frequently the most popular players on Nfl teams

Sage Rosenfels anybody?

Thorn
01-14-2013, 07:58 AM
Yates did a fine job taking this team as far as he could in 2011. This season I've seen none of that fine stuff from him. Him and Schaub both regressed this season as far as I'm concerned.

But, for some reason, I still like Yates more than I do Schaub. Don't ask me why, I don't have any kind of good reason for it, but I do. I like Keenum better than both of those two guys though.

deucetx
01-14-2013, 07:59 AM
Some of you guys are really really high on Yates and I'm not completely sure why.

Have to agree. Most reports of him coming out said exactly what we saw. A solid NFL backup. He had a couple of good outings and some rather pedestrian and bad ones too. More pedistrian and bad than good. His arm is not strong so not sure where folks are getting that one. He has an average arm. He is a smart quarterback though with a good pocket presence but at the same time he locks onto receivers like there is no tomorrow.

So I would have to say incomplete on this one. You have to wait and see. What he has shown so far is not franchise worthy unless you wish to be medicore. Having an elite quarterback helps but more than anything you at least want a quarterback in that second tier or someone that make game changing plays. At this point Yates nor Schaub sadly are this. Just have to see how Yates/Keenum progress or find someone else.

BeerTastesLikeVictory
01-14-2013, 08:15 AM
I agree we can also win a SB with Schaub BUT everything would have to be perfect around him for that to happen. I just dont like the odds of everything going perfect and us finally breaking through ot win it all.



I'm also in agreement with this. I'm not sold on TJ either. In my ideal world we would spend a high draft pick on a QB to groom for a year or two. However, I don't see anyone in this upcoming draft that would be worth it. Then again, there might be a Russell Wilson type in there somewhere (I am not a draftnik or college scout in the least).

b0ng
01-14-2013, 08:20 AM
I'm also in agreement with this. I'm not sold on TJ either. In my ideal world we would spend a high draft pick on a QB to groom for a year or two. However, I don't see anyone in this upcoming draft that would be worth it. Then again, there might be a Russell Wilson type in there somewhere (I am not a draftnik or college scout in the least).

Guys will separate themselves from one another at the Senior Bowl, East-West Shrine game, the combine and pro days. There isn't a QB that looks like a slam dunk like Luck or RG3, but there are some interesting prospects.

Playoffs
01-14-2013, 08:25 AM
Yates is a bridge, not a destination imo.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 08:41 AM
If Yates was that much better than Schaub you would see him starting this year, Schaub would not have received an extension and we would have been talking about Yates this year instead of Schaub.


:

Yup

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 08:56 AM
Yates looked awful in the preseason. Like he had regressed since the year before.

How did Kaepernick look in the preseason? Even after looking good in his regular season starts, many people were giving Harbaugh a hard time for making the switch, many people here as well.

I understand the love & excitement around him, he had a helluva game this weekend, but the bottom line is he hasn't done anything Alex Smith hadn't. Not until he wins next week, otherwise the 49ers made a lateral move.

I'm not for giving Yates anything, as long as Matt is healthy, he is & should be our starter. However, we're going into another season hoping he can stay healthy (whether you believe he's injury prone or not). Yates will more than likely get an opportunity to start, if he can keep Case Keenum on the practice squad.

At that time, Yates or Keenum can make a case for their future, just like Kaepernick did. If one of them introduces as much excitement & hope into our team & our fan base like Kaepernick did & Gary doesn't make the switch, then I'd be disappointed.

Until then, QBs like Schaub do not get replaced.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 08:58 AM
Backups are frequently the most popular players on Nfl teams

Who is Rogers back up?

How popular is Mallet in New England?

How popular is Daniels in New Orleans?

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 09:14 AM
Who is Rogers back up?

How popular is Mallet in New England?

How popular is Daniels in New Orleans?


Exactly. In places where the starter is getting it done backups are backups. In places where the fans can see the starter has shortcomings that hurt the offense the backup is viewed as a possible solution.

We have no say in this. It's all up to Kubiak here and no doubt his choice will surprise no one. Matt will get a chance to make amends and be driving next year barring injury. Still if that injury should occur we're all going to be watching Yates very closely and hoping for significant improvement.

I'd like to see the Texans take a shot at a young QB. I think it's time to start looking for someone to groom behind Schaub. I wouldn't sacrifice fixing the right side of the OL for that though. Get that taken care of so when we do throw a youngster out there we don't get him killed right away.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 10:53 AM
I like some things I saw from Yates. I disliked some things I saw from Yates. I hated just about everything I saw from Schaub the last half of the season. Yates is a young guy that we haven't seen much of. Schaub is a guy that we've seen everything we're going to see. So I really don't know if Yates is a real player, but I know I'd like to see him given the coaching and opportunity to succeed while the new draft pick studies a clipboard.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 10:58 AM
As great as we all are at making calls and running a football team there is clearly something that the coaches arent seeing in Yates that many of you are and if there was some question as to Yates even being close to Schaub we wouldnt have seen the contract extension we did for Matt

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 11:04 AM
Who is Rogers back up?

How popular is Mallet in New England?

How popular is Daniels in New Orleans?

1. Don't know right now, but it was Matt Flynn. Remember him?
2. He sits behind an all-time great, so popularity isn't the question. I bet the Pats fans don't feel like their season is an automatic loss if he had to come in, especially after the Matt Cassell season.
3. Again with the popularity ... Saints fans are optimistic about Daniels, but not clamoring for him because they have an all time great ahead of him.

We have Schaub.

Double Barrel
01-14-2013, 11:04 AM
We do not have a QB on the roster that could be considered the next dynamic QB for the Houston Texans.

And I feel pretty confident in saying that nothing will change in 2013. Schaub as starter and Yates as his backup will remain status quo.

I like Yates to an extent, but I do not feel that he is the guy that will elevate this team to compete with the New England Patriots.

Unfortunately for us, those kind of QBs are not grown on trees. We either find some retread vet out there or take chances with an inexperienced kid. I do not see Kubiak choosing either option when he's got so much faith in Schaub.

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 11:12 AM
Funny how some of you are saying if yates was better than why would schaub still be starting and given a contract extension, have we all forgotten about the loyalty the texans FO has displayed ???

Not saying Yates is the answer but come on.....

b0ng
01-14-2013, 11:12 AM
How did Kaepernick look in the preseason? Even after looking good in his regular season starts, many people were giving Harbaugh a hard time for making the switch, many people here as well.

I understand the love & excitement around him, he had a helluva game this weekend, but the bottom line is he hasn't done anything Alex Smith hadn't. Not until he wins next week, otherwise the 49ers made a lateral move.

I'm not for giving Yates anything, as long as Matt is healthy, he is & should be our starter. However, we're going into another season hoping he can stay healthy (whether you believe he's injury prone or not). Yates will more than likely get an opportunity to start, if he can keep Case Keenum on the practice squad.

At that time, Yates or Keenum can make a case for their future, just like Kaepernick did. If one of them introduces as much excitement & hope into our team & our fan base like Kaepernick did & Gary doesn't make the switch, then I'd be disappointed.

Until then, QBs like Schaub do not get replaced.

Alex Smith is/was practically allergic to throwing the ball down the field, and you could see it in the playoffs last year, and the regular season this year. Colin Kaepernick looked very rookie-ish last preseason, and this year he still didn't quite look like an NFL QB. You have to give Harbaugh props for making a tough decision and switching out the QB's midway through the season, but right now it looks like the correct decision.

TJ still has the possibility to make good strides in being an NFL QB, but the small amount of film we've seen of him this year, he looks like a guy who will maybe get you 200 yards a game and maybe a passing TD, maybe a pick who knows.

One good thing is right now the QB class is pretty much all lumped together which means that there may be a guy like Russell Wilson available by the time we pick in the first or second round. But the organization itself has to be willing to make that pick rather than something like another TE, or a WR or an OT or an NT or ILB or some other position of need we have.

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2013, 11:15 AM
I like Schaub. At the beginning of this season, he was playing great. By the end of this season, not so much. I don't know if it's his injury or what.

Yates is an athletic upgrade from Schaub but he doesn't have the command of the offense Schaub does and he's just not as good of a QB as Schaub is. Not yet, at least.

BUT.

After seeing Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, and RGIII, I want one of those. One of those kinds of QBs in this offense would be amazing.

With all that said, I didn't think QB was our biggest problem against the Patriots. We have to field a better defense than that.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 11:20 AM
Yates is an athletic upgrade from Schaub but he doesn't have the command of the offense Schaub does and he's just not as good of a QB as Schaub is. Not yet, at least.

Athleticism can't be taught. Offensive scheme can.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 11:24 AM
1. Don't know right now, but it was Matt Flynn. Remember him?
2. He sits behind an all-time great, so popularity isn't the question. I bet the Pats fans don't feel like their season is an automatic loss if he had to come in, especially after the Matt Cassell season.
3. Again with the popularity ... Saints fans are optimistic about Daniels, but not clamoring for him because they have an all time great ahead of him.

We have Schaub.

That's pretty much my point.

badboy
01-14-2013, 11:26 AM
We do not have a QB on the roster that could be considered the next dynamic QB for the Houston Texans.

And I feel pretty confident in saying that nothing will change in 2013. Schaub as starter and Yates as his backup will remain status quo.

I like Yates to an extent, but I do not feel that he is the guy that will elevate this team to compete with the New England Patriots.

Unfortunately for us, those kind of QBs are not grown on trees. We either find some retread vet out there or take chances with an inexperienced kid. I do not see Kubiak choosing either option when he's got so much faith in Schaub.This /\ . "I can complain about my wife but it costs too much to divorce her and not sure if any FAs or young, inexperienced would be any better".

Facts: Schaub's base for 2013 is $7.25 m (guaranteed) + $3.5 m prorated bonus= $10.75 m cap hit. If not on roster his remaining prorated bonus is $3.5 x 4 remaining contract years or $14m cap hit. I'd aim for 2014 draft and hope enough underclassmen come out. If gone in 2014, Matt's cap hit is still $3.5 x 3= $10.5 m. We gambled, got excited for 12 games then awakened to reality. Like him or not, Schaub gives you best chance to go to S.B. We now need to focus on off season where we may have some cap space for FA and another good draft.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 11:29 AM
Funny how some of you are saying if yates was better than why would schaub still be starting and given a contract extension, have we all forgotten about the loyalty the texans FO has displayed ???

Not saying Yates is the answer but come on.....



Im not sure the staff would go out and get another person to see if they could replace Schaub but I do believe if they thought Yates was better that he would get the nod. They already know who is better and its not a matter of bringing someone in to find out.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 11:34 AM
I like Schaub. At the beginning of this season, he was playing great. By the end of this season, not so much. I don't know if it's his injury or what.

Yates is an athletic upgrade from Schaub but he doesn't have the command of the offense Schaub does and he's just not as good of a QB as Schaub is. Not yet, at least.


I know it sounds like I'm arguing both sides & I am. I don't think Schaub is a great QB. I'm not sold that he can't be one.

I'm arguing against some of this nonsense saying that he's worthless & I'm going to argue that he was great.

The truth is, this offense didn't do a whole lot this season without the defense getting turnovers & setting them up pretty. Miami, I know a lot of people were ready to cut Schaub until the Defense turned the tide & the offense was able to capitalize.

This offense, Schaub included got boo'd at home several times for not being able to move the ball, much less score, much less score a TD.

I think he looked "great" in the Denver game, the Detroit game, & maybe the Jacksonville game. But after that, from New England on, we really needed him to be great & he wasn't. The Vikings & Colts Defense should not have been able to stop us from scoring 30. I don't blame Schaub for that, I blame Kubiak. But truthfully, Schaub rarely looked "great" this year.

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2013, 11:40 AM
I know it sounds like I'm arguing both sides & I am. I don't think Schaub is a great QB. I'm not sold that he can't be one.

I'm arguing against some of this nonsense saying that he's worthless & I'm going to argue that he was great.

The truth is, this offense didn't do a whole lot this season without the defense getting turnovers & setting them up pretty. Miami, I know a lot of people were ready to cut Schaub until the Defense turned the tide & the offense was able to capitalize.

This offense, Schaub included got boo'd at home several times for not being able to move the ball, much less score, much less score a TD.

I think he looked "great" in the Denver game, the Detroit game, & maybe the Jacksonville game. But after that, from New England on, we really needed him to be great & he wasn't. The Vikings & Colts Defense should not have been able to stop us from scoring 30. I don't blame Schaub for that, I blame Kubiak. But truthfully, Schaub rarely looked "great" this year.

For me, Schaub was playing fine (with occasional great games) up until the first Patriots debacle. From that point, he just didn't look like himself. His arm, which has never been the strongest in the league, looked like it got weaker. He looked like he was hesitant to make certain throws. He looked like he stopped trusting either himself or his receivers.

I don't blame Schaub for the loss to the Patriots, I blame the defense. You can't mount an effective come-back if the defense can't stop the other team.

But with all that said, if it was me, I'd be looking for Matt's successor in the draft. I don't think Yates is it (although it would be great if he was.)

Dread-Head
01-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Promote him! What have we got to lose?

DBCooper
01-14-2013, 12:19 PM
Yates is not the answer.

AJ-80
01-14-2013, 12:22 PM
Promote him! What have we got to lose?
What do we have to lose? A 12-4 record. I don't think Yates is the guy.

Victor B
01-14-2013, 12:54 PM
For those saying that Yates isn't the guy or that Keenum doesn't have it either, my question is, how do you know? Yates has had minimal playing time to show what he can actually do. The guy was a 3rd stringer who was thrust into the starting spot. Of course he made mistakes, but how can you judge the guy on those few games? We have no clue what Keenum can do.

You can't just say, "oh this guy wasn't drafted so he can't be good" or "Yates isn't the guy, he made too many mistakes". The sample size for these two QB's is not nearly enough to make a decision.

We do, however, have a large enough sample size on Schaub to know what he is. We know what he can and can't do, and it looks like he has hit the pinnacle of his career. A guy with his age and experience is not going to improve his game if he hasn't by this point.

I highly doubt the Texans look for any help at the QB spot next year. We are locked in with Schaub. What I would like to see, though, is for the staff to allow Yates and Keenum a real opportunity at competition. Competition makes every one play better. Light a fire under Schaub's butt and let him know that there are 2 guys after him.

With Kubiak though, I doubt we see any competition at QB. We'll be 1 and done next year with Schaub running the O.

DRP
01-14-2013, 12:57 PM
If Trent Dilfer can win a SB, I think Matt Schaub can. The team just needs to tie up a few lose ends on both sides of the ball and game on.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 01:01 PM
For those saying that Yates isn't the guy or that Keenum doesn't have it either, my question is, how do you know? Yates has had minimal playing time to show what he can actually do. The guy was a 3rd stringer who was thrust into the starting spot. Of course he made mistakes, but how can you judge the guy on those few games? We have no clue what Keenum can do.

You can't just say, "oh this guy wasn't drafted so he can't be good" or "Yates isn't the guy, he made too many mistakes". The sample size for these two QB's is not nearly enough to make a decision.

We do, however, have a large enough sample size on Schaub to know what he is. We know what he can and can't do, and it looks like he has hit the pinnacle of his career. A guy with his age and experience is not going to improve his game if he hasn't by this point.

I highly doubt the Texans look for any help at the QB spot next year. We are locked in with Schaub. What I would like to see, though, is for the staff to allow Yates and Keenum a real opportunity at competition. Competition makes every one play better. Light a fire under Schaub's butt and let him know that there are 2 guys after him.

With Kubiak though, I doubt we see any competition at QB. We'll be 1 and done next year with Schaub running the O.


Do you really think either of the backups "have it" and our coaches just ignore it or other teams?

CretorFrigg
01-14-2013, 01:02 PM
I'm watching the video, and I see Yates making plays that Schaub can't. Watch the play at 7:28. Schaub would've been sacked. TJ escapes the sack and even gets the ball out to his receiver to gain a few yards.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 01:04 PM
I'm watching the video, and I see Yates making plays that Schaub can't. Watch the play at 7:28. Schaub would've been sacked. TJ escapes the sack and even gets the ball out to his receiver to gain a few yards.



Yates makes escapes that Schaub cant and yet he was still sacked at a higher rate than Matt was. He also doesnt know when to just get rid of the ball where as Schaub might get rid of it too soon.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 01:10 PM
Do you really think either of the backups "have it" and our coaches just ignore it or other teams?

It's possible. I understand it's not likely but it's entirely possible. People get overlooked and underestimated all the time. Coaches stick with players they believe in or have a vested interest in helping to succeed.

I doubt either of them will be the next "Where in the hell did he come from?" guy but I don't think we've seen the best Yates can play and we know nothing of Keenum at this level.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 01:14 PM
Yates makes escapes that Schaub cant and yet he was still sacked at a higher rate than Matt was. He also doesnt know when to just get rid of the ball where as Schaub might get rid of it too soon.


The difference is experience more than anything. Matt has it and TJ had none. He'll never get any if he never plays and the only way to see what he's capable of doing is to put the ball in his hands. We've had 6 years to see what Matt can do. Don't think there are any surprises left there.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 01:18 PM
It's possible. I understand it's not likely but it's entirely possible. People get overlooked and underestimated all the time. Coaches stick with players they believe in or have a vested interest in helping to succeed.

I doubt either of them will be the next "Where in the hell did he come from?" guy but I don't think we've seen the best Yates can play and we know nothing of Keenum at this level.

The difference is experience more than anything. Matt has it and TJ had none. He'll never get any if he never plays and the only way to see what he's capable of doing is to put the ball in his hands. We've had 6 years to see what Matt can do. Don't think there are any surprises left there.


Im more of an odds guy myself and odds are if either of our backups had it or even a glimmer of "it" we would see something. Way too many people got sucked in by Yates last year but as you said its not likely our coaching staff is just ignoring what Yates has. If its close Id have to think the coaches would know without benching Schaub and putting Yates in

WG9032
01-14-2013, 01:26 PM
I'm on the Yates bandwagon. The guy has that "it" as far as moxie and leadership that Schaub doesn't have. Plus physically he moves so much better than Schaub.

I think Matt has been saved by this system. In a more traditional drop back system he'd barely be any good, IMO.

Also, I don't think Keenum is even a consideration.

Victor B
01-14-2013, 01:30 PM
Do you really think either of the backups "have it" and our coaches just ignore it or other teams?

I don't know. I try not to base my judgements on facts I don't have. I have really no clue as to whether or not Yates or Keenum can play and excel at this level. I know that Keenum had no Division 1 offers other than Houston and he turned out to be a pretty good QB. Players get overlooked all the time.

This franchise has stuck with players that clearly weren't cutting it in the past because they are extremely loyal.

Marcus
01-14-2013, 01:32 PM
Yates is not the answer.

Nicely done. Very well thought out analysis. A little long-winded maybe, but hey, nobody's perfect.

Kudos!

DBCooper
01-14-2013, 01:53 PM
Nicely done. Very well thought out analysis. A little long-winded maybe, but hey, nobody's perfect.

Kudos!

I've made my stance on Yates very clear.

Go watch both the playoff games from last year.

Watch how he throws the ball. Everyone keeps talking about his strong arm, I don't see it. He makes weak, slow, floating passes that will get intercepted way too many times.

I'll take Schaub and his weaknesses over Yates any day.

TexansBull
01-14-2013, 01:57 PM
Video on his first start vs. ATL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCPrSn6YL0&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Barring a coaching change; I'm fairly certain this is who Kubiak is grooming to be Schaub sucessor.. hopefully sooner rather than later (ala Kaep over Smith).



Now, I don't have much of a good memory, but from the traits I remember from him when I saw him play was he had a strong arm, was mobile, good pocket awareness, and seem pretty smart.



His decision making wasn't the best, but he flashed tons of potential.. and this was all in his rookie year.



So, what are you thoughts on him? Future QB of this franchise, yay or nay?

your description made me think of tony romo.

;-)

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

Speedy
01-14-2013, 01:58 PM
We've had 6 years to see what Matt can do. Don't think there are any surprises left there.

What, that Schaub is 21-8 in his last 29 starts, and could arguably be 35-13 in his last 48 had they had just a bad defense in 2010 instead of a horrendous D.

Can the QB position on the Houston Texans be upgraded? Yes. But you can say that about 3/4 of the teams in the league. Is TJ Yates that upgrade? Not only no, but hell no.

I don't know what happened after Schaub took that kick in the junk on Thanksgiving, but that seems to be when he just quit being the good, occasionally playing great, QB that he was the first half of this season, in 2011, and even in 2010.

Can the Broncos win a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning at QB? Well, they haven't yet, and neither has Schaub and the Texans. Doesn't mean they can't.

Yeah, the Texans could use an upgrade at QB. But they could use some right side o-line help, some d-line help, some LB help, some WR help, long before I'd worry about replacing Matt Schaub.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 02:12 PM
I don't know. I try not to base my judgements on facts I don't have. I have really no clue as to whether or not Yates or Keenum can play and excel at this level. I know that Keenum had no Division 1 offers other than Houston and he turned out to be a pretty good QB. Players get overlooked all the time.

This franchise has stuck with players that clearly weren't cutting it in the past because they are extremely loyal.



Keenum had zero nfl offers too

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 02:23 PM
I think Matt has been saved by this system. In a more traditional drop back system he'd barely be any good, IMO.
.

I remember a time when we would throw a quick slant to Andre, OD, or KDub on 3rd & 1.


& that was money. If for what ever reason it didn't work & we went for it on 4th & 1... we'd pick it up.

We didn't do that yesterday in the 3rd & short & 4th down situations we were in yesterday. I don't know why not.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 02:28 PM
What, that Schaub is 21-8 in his last 29 starts...

Blah blah blah. Schaub is not 21-8, the Texans are. And Schaub is not responsible for the Texans' losses, the team is. But starting with the Pats game in the 13th game of the season and extending through yesterday's game, Schaub threw ONE touchdown pass that mattered. ONE. In 6 games.

And he only threw two overall. So to the extent that a single player who touches the ball on every offensive snap contributes to team success, he was a serious part of the problem.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 02:29 PM
Blah blah blah. Schaub is not 21-8, the Texans are.

Didn't read anything after that.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 02:30 PM
Blah blah blah. Schaub is not 21-8, the Texans are. And Schaub is not responsible for the Texans' losses, the team is. But starting with the Pats game in the 13th game of the season and extending through yesterday's game, Schaub threw ONE touchdown pass that mattered. ONE. In 6 games.

And he only threw two overall. So to the extent that a single player who touches the ball on every offensive snap contributes to team success, he was a serious part of the problem.agreed....Schaub had a decent stat line yesterday so if that is all people are looking at...it looks like he wasn't a problem. If you watch the game you know otherwise.

2012Champs
01-14-2013, 02:31 PM
Blah blah blah. Schaub is not 21-8, the Texans are. And Schaub is not responsible for the Texans' losses, the team is. But starting with the Pats game in the 13th game of the season and extending through yesterday's game, Schaub threw ONE touchdown pass that mattered. ONE. In 6 games.

And he only threw two overall. So to the extent that a single player who touches the ball on every offensive snap contributes to team success, he was a serious part of the problem.



what was the texans record during yates starts?

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 02:32 PM
Didn't read anything after that.

I'll be sure to lend your ensuing opinions the appropriate weight then.

Lurvinator11
01-14-2013, 03:04 PM
Funny how some of you are saying if yates was better than why would schaub still be starting and given a contract extension, have we all forgotten about the loyalty the texans FO has displayed ???

Not saying Yates is the answer but come on.....

I believe this coaching staff does what it takes to win. Now that doesn't mean going out and getting the top FA every year. What that means, is if we had a better performer on our team that gave the team a better chance to win, don't you think they would be starting? I mean, Caldwell was the starting guard going in to the season. Yet, Kubiak replaced him with the rookie Ben Jones by game 3, because Jones executed better upfront. I know we all used to knock on loyalty, but if the better man is already on this team, he would be starting, and this season is evident to that.

Regarding your FO statement, I'm almost certain that mindset was left at home last year. Winston, Williams, and Ryans. All of them were shown the door in one way or another. I mean, if you trade guys like Ryans, all loyalty has gone out the window. So, I don't think we should be using that excuse anymore.

BullNation4Life
01-14-2013, 03:11 PM
I like Schaub. At the beginning of this season, he was playing great. By the end of this season, not so much. I don't know if it's his injury or what.

Yates is an athletic upgrade from Schaub but he doesn't have the command of the offense Schaub does and he's just not as good of a QB as Schaub is. Not yet, at least.

BUT.

After seeing Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, and RGIII, I want one of those. One of those kinds of QBs in this offense would be amazing.

With all that said, I didn't think QB was our biggest problem against the Patriots. We have to field a better defense than that.

I myself agree and want the same thing BUT it would never happen and I will tell you why. What is the one thing about those QB's that their HC did and the Texans HC would never do?

Change his offense to fit the QB...Kubiak is far to egotistic to actually plan an offense around his QB's strengths, where Kaepernick, RGIII and Wilson's strength is running a Spread-Run Option type of offense. Kubiak is far too old school for that..

It would take a Chip Kelley to become the HC of the Texans to see a QB like we want, until then, get use to the Fetal position statue that is David Carr, errrrr Matt Schaub....

BullNation4Life
01-14-2013, 03:12 PM
what was the texans record during yates starts?

3-3 with a playoff win over Cincy I believe...

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 03:14 PM
What that means, is if we had a better performer on our team that gave the team a better chance to win, don't you think they would be starting?

So you're saying that they believed Bradie James was better than Ryans, that Rashad Butler was better than Winston, and Caldwell was better than Brisiel? Or that letting those guys go in favor of their less skilled backups was doing the best thing to help the team win? Not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're saying that those players had to go because of cap issues and the guys in charge got into those cap issues because that would help the team win.

Or maybe we can just all admit that the guys in charge are fallible and make mistakes, and we're capable of seeing those mistakes.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 03:14 PM
Keenum had zero nfl offers too

Not a single one. He's a project, nothing more. He's going to get the same chance any other UDFA QB would get. He either cuts it and sticks or he doesn't. I'm not all that concerned with Keenum. I'd like him to work out because everybody likes an underdog but I have no illusions about his chances. I think if there was nothing there at all then he wouldn't be on the practice squad. He'll have to take another step forward next season to keep that spot. Unless he does something dramatic and unexpected he probably won't be here past the 2013 camp.

Yates did have interest from a few other teams. He is still a project type pick. I think anybody taken after the 4th round is a project and I'd lump them all together for the most part. 5th round to UDFA isn't that big a change. Just a bunch of guys with various knocks on them.

I'm of course referring to QB's.

Rey
01-14-2013, 03:22 PM
I like Keenum and I'm anxious
To see him next year...

iLoveTexans
01-14-2013, 03:41 PM
Irrelevant to what you guys are talking about, but here is Yates first minutes in the NFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9cxMHezHI&feature=related

Premier
01-14-2013, 05:10 PM
we could have drafted russell wilson or kaaepernick, schaub would still be the starter and still would have received the extension. dont use this reason to base why yates isnt starting right now. i think the positives yates brought out weigh the negatives, people act like he wasnt a rookie basically thrown into the fire and did damn good. youre talking about a coach picking hte best players for the team, he chose leinart over yates..

im not convinced schaub is outplaying anybody in TC or practice. i see a qb with job security going through the motions with a back up standing by and watching..

76Texan
01-14-2013, 05:30 PM
Not a single one. He's a project, nothing more. He's going to get the same chance any other UDFA QB would get. He either cuts it and sticks or he doesn't. I'm not all that concerned with Keenum. I'd like him to work out because everybody likes an underdog but I have no illusions about his chances. I think if there was nothing there at all then he wouldn't be on the practice squad. He'll have to take another step forward next season to keep that spot. Unless he does something dramatic and unexpected he probably won't be here past the 2013 camp.

Yates did have interest from a few other teams. He is still a project type pick. I think anybody taken after the 4th round is a project and I'd lump them all together for the most part. 5th round to UDFA isn't that big a change. Just a bunch of guys with various knocks on them.

I'm of course referring to QB's.
Profootball Reference. Com has a few very nice features; one of them let you look up all the QBs that had ever been drafted.

You'd be surprised how many low rounders had become starters; guys drafted in the 5th, 6,7,8,9 round.

Doug Flutie was drafted in the 11th round, and of course, Warren Moon went undrafted.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 07:09 PM
Profootball Reference. Com has a few very nice features; one of them let you look up all the QBs that had ever been drafted.

You'd be surprised how many low rounders had become starters; guys drafted in the 5th, 6,7,8,9 round.

Doug Flutie was drafted in the 11th round, and of course, Warren Moon went undrafted.

I know and I understand. I'm not saying that these 5-UDFA guys aren't all good enough. Lots of reasons why a QB can end up down there. A few inches in height, a system he plays in, you know what I'm talking about. Guys that aren't in that measurable box sometimes have intangibles that get overlooked.

Wolf
01-14-2013, 07:24 PM
Yates is lucky he played last year and not this year. Understanable Kubiak dumbed the offense down for the rookie so he wouldnt get overwhelmed. But we also had Foster and Tate to help the rookie.
This year,we couldn't run the ball consistently.

Premier
01-14-2013, 07:27 PM
Yates is lucky he played last year and not this year. Understanable Kubiak dumbed the offense down for the rookie so he wouldnt get overwhelmed. But we also had Foster and Tate to help the rookie.
This year,we couldn't run the ball consistently.

dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..

76Texan
01-14-2013, 07:28 PM
I know and I understand. I'm not saying that these 5-UDFA guys aren't all good enough. Lots of reasons why a QB can end up down there. A few inches in height, a system he plays in, you know what I'm talking about. Guys that aren't in that measurable box sometimes have intangibles that get overlooked.

Gotcha.

Wolf
01-14-2013, 07:40 PM
dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..

I may have misread it somewhere. I thought I heard someone say that they scale the offense down. Of course my memory isn't too good

Texan_Bill
01-14-2013, 08:05 PM
Here's my deal with Yates.

Sure, you can look at last year. Cheer about the accomplishments, of beating the Falcons, and the Bengals twice. But what about the losses? He barely did anything against a young Carolina team, who only had 1 win on the road, and then he could only put up 13 points against the worst team in the league, the Colts. If I'm correct, didn't they have a really bad defense that year too? Of course he went out early against Tennessee, and we won't count the Ravens game either, since it was the Ravens. Although, he did throw three picks in that game, and stared down Johnson the entire game.

But no, let's look at his wins. He had a couple of bright spots against the Falcons. Hitting a 50 yard pass to Johnson in stride looked good. Putting up 17 was pretty nice. Although, that victory really belonged to the defense and the fans. Defense held matty ice to 10 points, and the fans were loud as hell in that game. To say Yates won that game by himself, is just overlooking other factors.

Then you have the two games against the Bengals. For starters, the fact that we won that first game was nothing short of a miracle. It was awesome, don't get me wrong, but Yates and the offense couldn't do anything until the second half. He redeemed himself with that magical drive, so I'll give him credit for that. Aside from that, he was lackluster in that game. In the playoff game, he played better, but still made what could have been costly mistakes. Defense played lights out in that game, and Foster ran like a mad man.

Yates did what he needed to do, but when it comes to being a starter, he won't cut it. Now, you can look at last year and say he played like a rookie because he was. Sure, I'll take that. What about this year?

Well, in the two games that he saw action, he ran in a TD against NE and their backups. Aside from that, he had two turnovers in total. A fumble off of a blindside hit, and an INT against GB. Now you can counter by saying the games were a lost cause, but let me counter with this. When you're a backup, you do whatever it takes to get on the field and stay on the field. That is how you separate the leaders from the rest of the pack. Even if it is a blowout, or you're subbing for an injury, you do whatever it takes to get noticed in a good way. Play as hard as you can, and do what you can to bridge the gap. Coaches will notice, whether it is your team, or another team that is in need of a starting QB. Look at SF, or Seattle. the 49ers had just signed Smith to a deal this offseason, and was doing well. But one injury was all it took for Kapernick to get his shot. He played as hard he could, and look at it now. Although Smith is healthy, it is obvious who the 9ers are sticking with. Same with Wilson in Seattle. Big trade for Matt Flynn, and he doesn't even play a snap this year. Yates does not have that ability in him. He has little awareness, is mistake prone, and just doesn't have that sense of urgency.

I know we all have a special place in our hearts for Yates. I know after Schaubs performance today, many of you will want Yates to replace him. But that just isn't going to happen. Yates is, at best, a backup. He is not the future of this team, and he will not be starting over Schaub next season. Take it for what it is, but that is how it will most likely play out.

Personally, if anyone is the future, I have two scenarios on how that will play out. A). Draft a first round QB in the 2014 draft and groom him for a couple of seasons or B.) Keenum will surprise everyone. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me is Keenum unseated Yates as the backup next season. He would give this offense a new look if he could get some playing time from Schaub. He can run, throw bombs, and has good accuracy. His only issue is he is a little guy. He would need to bulk up a bit, if he is ever serious about getting a starting job.

Not to pile up on Yates (because I once thought Bucky Richardson was the answer and feel a bit jaded), but for a "play action offense", he doesn't sell the "play action" all that well....

*********

In terms of creating "competition" for the QB spot??? I'm all for it!! Schaub shouldn't be anointed shyte, irrespective of his contract...... See San Francisco and Seattle.

DexmanC
01-14-2013, 08:35 PM
Do you really think either of the backups "have it" and our coaches just ignore it or other teams?

Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.

infantrycak
01-14-2013, 09:38 PM
Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.

Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.

DexmanC
01-14-2013, 11:17 PM
Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.

TJ Yates did a good job last year. Schaub is healthy, so Yates rides the pine.
My point was, Foster didn't start 2010 because he performed better
than Slaton and Tate. He started because both those guys hit
IR before the start of the season. Kubiak was blown away by
what he had in Foster after the Colts game, just like the rest of us were.

Gary is not a proactive coach. He will wait until the decision to
stay pat is removed from his hands, just like the scenario that brought
Wade Phillips here.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 11:24 PM
Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.

Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.

ObsiWan
01-15-2013, 12:28 AM
Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.
I think that was a big part of it. In fact, I recall Foster himself allude to it. He had to grow up. And sitting behind guys he knew he should be beating out helped do that.

Sometimes you have to set a standard, an expectation, and hold EVERYONE to it; or it means nothing.

Lurvinator11
01-15-2013, 01:56 AM
Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.

Foster lined up as the starter in the first pre season game. I am almost certain Kubiak knew who he wanted starting at that point, and it wasn't Slaton or Tate.

Lurvinator11
01-15-2013, 02:09 AM
So you're saying that they believed Bradie James was better than Ryans, that Rashad Butler was better than Winston, and Caldwell was better than Brisiel? Or that letting those guys go in favor of their less skilled backups was doing the best thing to help the team win? Not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're saying that those players had to go because of cap issues and the guys in charge got into those cap issues because that would help the team win.

Or maybe we can just all admit that the guys in charge are fallible and make mistakes, and we're capable of seeing those mistakes.

No Bradie is not an overall better player than Meco, but at the same time, Meco was only playing every other down in our system. It was a move that needed to be made, since we were paying a lot for him.

Brisiel was good, but do you really think anybody would have been on board with matching the offer that Oakland made? Sure, we could have got him before he hit FA, but I feel more comfortable with Jones lining up, as opposed to Caldwell.

Winston, while he was good, he drew the most penalties on the line. That's something we can benefit by getting away from.

I find it funny that two of the three replacement players you listed didn't even play the majority of the season. Although they were listed as the starters in the preseason, Jones and Newton stepped up and took that job away from both of them. As long as these guys improve, while remaining at a low cost, I will be happy. I enjoy building a team through the draft, and not because the analyst have been saying that about us over the past couple of seasons. Building through the draft not only gives you good young talent, the talent is also cheap! Look at Watt. The dude will be making millions on his next deal, and he has earned it. But right now, even though he is playing awesome, he only makes like 500K. Perfect for our team, just in case we need to break the bank. In this case, We will be breaking the bank for Watt. I want to have a successful team for a long time, and the more money you have combined with smart draft choices, can give you a good team for a while. That's just how I see things.

Norg
01-15-2013, 02:10 AM
I hope TJ is rdy cause next year if schuab falters hes the first one to come in and see if he can light a spark

2012Champs
01-15-2013, 07:48 AM
dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..


Did you not watch the Yates' starts? If Kub didn't dumb it down Yates did

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 08:29 AM
Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.

This is all true. He totally did that with Chris Brown the RB as well. Brown never could amount to anything over here, and Gary would force that guy on this team at the end of a game inside the 5 relentlessly.

417Texan
01-15-2013, 08:46 AM
Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.

2012Champs
01-15-2013, 08:52 AM
Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.



We have half a line lets not kid anyone. Also if Dre is your only real threat on the WR core it lessens his and the teams ability to run at full pace.

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 08:52 AM
Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.

Are you saying that he doesn't?

After AJ there is......


Martin?
Jean?
Walter?


I don't really care how much you hate the current QB. Any QB on this team would need new weapons. These WR's are terrible, and that wasn't hard to see at all before the season, unless you were one of the people that automatically entrenched Martin and Jean as valid play makers because of what they did in the pre season. Nothing inaccurate at all by saying Schaub needs more weapons. That is as plain as day.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 09:54 AM
Not much to assess this year. What I saw last year was a "green" game manager type that did not make many bad decisions, with a team that stepped up its game to compensate for the QB position.

Cannot make all the throws, not sure about vision, potentially good feet for the playbook. My assessment is incomplete, but do not believe he is a starting QB in the NFL.

QB is extremely important in a Kubiak offense, consequently, he has folks on this roster who he thinks can help this team win his way. I am 100% that he is confident in what he is looking for, which does not give me confidence in a Super Bowl appearance with him at the helm.

Griese, Plummer, Carr, Schaub, and Yates are what he should be measured on. He shouldn't get credit for Young or Elway in an objective historical view on his performance as a QB guru.

Kubiak took us to the playoffs, and has done his job. We have reached the limits of his skill set, and need to move on. He is not the only player's coach, QB guru, model citizen, "local" boy, etc, that could coach this team tomorrow or in the future.

No more run rate business McNair, give us a head coach/GM who can identify big opportunities and close them.

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 10:01 AM
Not much to assess this year. What I saw last year was a "green" game manager type that did not make many bad decisions, with a team that stepped up its game to compensate for the QB position.

Cannot make all the throws, not sure about vision, potentially good feet for the playbook. My assessment is incomplete, but do not believe he is a starting QB in the NFL.

QB is extremely important in a Kubiak offense, consequently, he has folks on this roster who he thinks can help this team win his way. I am 100% that he is confident in what he is looking for, which does not give me confidence in a Super Bowl appearance with him at the helm.

Griese, Plummer, Carr, Schaub, and Yates are what he should be measured on. He shouldn't get credit for Young or Elway in an objective historical view on his performance as a QB guru.

Kubiak took us to the playoffs, and has done his job. We have reached the limits of his skill set, and need to move on. He is not the only player's coach, QB guru, model citizen, "local" boy, etc, that could coach this team tomorrow or in the future.

No more run rate business McNair, give us a head coach/GM who can identify big opportunities and close them.

Great post. I especially like the part where you bring up the "real" historical perspective of what Kubiak has done with QB's and how inaccurate this idea of him being a "QB Guru" is and always has been. He has nothing to stand on to suggest that. Kubiak is way to controlling in my eyes from what I can see as an observer that isn't actually on the team. But a huge part of my fear of getting a new QB (Which is what I want) is to have to go through the treads of QB's that Kubiak would likely bring in here. I don't think he has a real solid history of finding great QB's in this league, and my first guess is that Kubiak would probably go after another guy that is very similar to Schaub. People wanting some new Russell Wilson type of guy is something I don't see Kubiak doing. I could be wrong if he ever does make a serious push towards going after a new QB, but that is yet to be seen.

eriadoc
01-15-2013, 10:13 AM
Great post. I especially like the part where you bring up the "real" historical perspective of what Kubiak has done with QB's and how inaccurate this idea of him being a "QB Guru" is and always has been.

While I agree with KT's post and think it's a good one, let me offer an alternative perspective that ties in at the end.

Kubiak should absolutely be judged on those guys that KT said. And where I was optimistic about Kubiak back in the day was based on what he had done with Plummer and Griese. He took two guys that really weren't good and made them good enough to have Pro Bowl years. Griese actually did go to the Pro Bowl. When you add to that the fact that Elway and Young, who were already HOFers, had their best seasons under Kubiak, it showed to me he could take a good QB and elevate their game even more. I still believe that to be true.

What I do not believe to be true is that he can identify that really good QB to elevate. Griese - Plummer - Schaub establishes a pattern. Either he's arrogant enough to believe that he doesn't need a great talent at QB, or he's too insecure to handle a great talent at QB, or he simply can't identify one. Maybe he believes his system is good enough to compensate for the lack of talent at that position. I don't know. But I've lost faith in Kubiak, that's for sure.

Texecutioner
01-15-2013, 10:27 AM
While I agree with KT's post and think it's a good one, let me offer an alternative perspective that ties in at the end.

Kubiak should absolutely be judged on those guys that KT said. And where I was optimistic about Kubiak back in the day was based on what he had done with Plummer and Griese. He took two guys that really weren't good and made them good enough to have Pro Bowl years. Griese actually did go to the Pro Bowl. When you add to that the fact that Elway and Young, who were already HOFers, had their best seasons under Kubiak, it showed to me he could take a good QB and elevate their game even more. I still believe that to be true.

What I do not believe to be true is that he can identify that really good QB to elevate. Griese - Plummer - Schaub establishes a pattern. Either he's arrogant enough to believe that he doesn't need a great talent at QB, or he's too insecure to handle a great talent at QB, or he simply can't identify one. Maybe he believes his system is good enough to compensate for the lack of talent at that position. I don't know. But I've lost faith in Kubiak, that's for sure.

I never thought Griese was really good. He was more average to me or slightly above it. If he made the Pro Bowl it was probably more like a Pro Bowl year like Schaub had this season.

As far as Plummer goes, he was very good before coming to Denver. He was just stuck on a complete abomination of a team with the Cardinals. Those were some awful Cardinals teams, but Plummer had shown for years that he was mobile and could make plays. It wasn't a surprise at all to see Denver's offense improve a lot with Plummer where they ended up in the AFC Championship game beating the patriots in round 2. Plummer got burnt out though, and seemed to really hate playing football after while. I don't know if the Cardinals years did that to him or what, but he had enough once he was traded to another struggling franchise in the Bucs.

Elway was Elway though. He is one of the best of all time for a reason, and I don't think he was the type that needed some great system or coach to make him look great. Elway was one of the best improv QB's I've ever seen in this league especially in the clutch. I think that Kubiak benefited more from having Elway then Elway having Kubiak, but that's just my opinion.

beerlover
01-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Not much to assess this year. What I saw last year was a "green" game manager type that did not make many bad decisions, with a team that stepped up its game to compensate for the QB position.

Cannot make all the throws, not sure about vision, potentially good feet for the playbook. My assessment is incomplete, but do not believe he is a starting QB in the NFL.

QB is extremely important in a Kubiak offense, consequently, he has folks on this roster who he thinks can help this team win his way. I am 100% that he is confident in what he is looking for, which does not give me confidence in a Super Bowl appearance with him at the helm.

Griese, Plummer, Carr, Schaub, and Yates are what he should be measured on. He shouldn't get credit for Young or Elway in an objective historical view on his performance as a QB guru.

Kubiak took us to the playoffs, and has done his job. We have reached the limits of his skill set, and need to move on. He is not the only player's coach, QB guru, model citizen, "local" boy, etc, that could coach this team tomorrow or in the future.

No more run rate business McNair, give us a head coach/GM who can identify big opportunities and close them.

Kubiak choose to go MIA with Yates. Could be unconscious, directly based off his own playing career as back-up to Elway, but Schaub is no Elway. So does he need someone within the organization to remind him?

Key to any success with Kubiak QB position is deception ability to sell play action. From limited action I've seen of Yates due to quickness, he actually can execute more effective. His release is not as long & the ball comes out quicker. The one thing I disagree with you on is that he did make mistakes & forced the ball into tight windows trying to make something happen. Not that I have a problem with it but Kubiak must, he just doesn't trust decision making process. Progression, check down, throw it away, avoid bodily harm.

All this talk is fine but you, me or anyone knows nothing will change at least for a couple more years. What they'll do more likely is to add weapons, beef up the offensive line & add another pass rusher - Stronger supporting cast while keeping the lead actor :)

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 11:33 AM
Kubiak choose to go MIA with Yates. Could be unconscious, directly based off his own playing career as back-up to Elway, but Schaub is no Elway. So does he need someone within the organization to remind him?

Key to any success with Kubiak QB position is deception ability to sell play action. From limited action I've seen of Yates due to quickness, he actually can execute more effective. His release is not as long & the ball comes out quicker. The one thing I disagree with you on is that he did make mistakes & forced the ball into tight windows trying to make something happen. Not that I have a problem with it but Kubiak must, he just doesn't trust decision making process. Progression, check down, throw it away, avoid bodily harm.

All this talk is fine but you, me or anyone knows nothing will change at least for a couple more years. What they'll do more likely is to add weapons, beef up the offensive line & add another pass rusher - Stronger supporting cast while keeping the lead actor :)

Yates did not make many mistakes, which is a trait I liked about him - knowing his role. The problem with Schaub is executing his role or the staff having a QB that can execute the legacy playbook in an evolving league.

I am fully aware that we are stuck with this GM, HC and QB through 2014 at the least. It is depressing being depressed about hitting the plateau. We hit it hard after seven years, and there will be no optimism or progress without significant change. The signs were there from day one, and the historicals after seven years have only solidified the initial warnings.

Rookie owner, rookie GM, rookie HC, rookie QB. This is who we are, and is no wonder that success eludes us when diversity is thrown our way. Seven friggin years - execute or be executed.

GP
01-15-2013, 11:41 AM
TJ Yates did a good job last year. Schaub is healthy, so Yates rides the pine.
My point was, Foster didn't start 2010 because he performed better
than Slaton and Tate. He started because both those guys hit
IR before the start of the season. Kubiak was blown away by
what he had in Foster after the Colts game, just like the rest of us were.

Gary is not a proactive coach. He will wait until the decision to
stay pat is removed from his hands, just like the scenario that brought
Wade Phillips here.

:clap:

BullNation4Life
01-15-2013, 11:49 AM
Gary is not a proactive coach. He will wait until the decision to
stay pat is removed from his hands, just like the scenario that brought
Wade Phillips here.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/kip_yes.gif


which is why we are stuck watching Schaub for the next few years...

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 04:45 PM
What I do not believe to be true is that he can identify that really good QB to elevate. Griese - Plummer - Schaub establishes a pattern. Either he's arrogant enough to believe that he doesn't need a great talent at QB, or he's too insecure to handle a great talent at QB, or he simply can't identify one.

Agree with the remainder of your post but I think this overstates things and draws incorrect conclusions on a pattern. The only QB Kubiak picked was Schaub. He probably was asked his opinion on Griese and Plummer but he wasn't one of the two primary decision makers - the HC and GM.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 04:58 PM
He probably was asked his opinion on Griese and Plummer but he wasn't one of the two primary decision makers - the HC and GM.

Are you offering the narrative that Kubiak had not earned the ability to provide a recommendation on potential QB signings, as the QB Coach and OC, in the early 2000's?

76Texan
01-15-2013, 04:59 PM
What if Mike Shanahan never was a genius at picking and developing QBs? What if Gary Kubiak was the QB genius all along?
....

A common jibe at Mike Shanahan goes, "What has Shanahan won without Elway?" This is typically well answered, "What did Elway win without Shanahan?"

These may be the wrong questions. Better question: "What has Shanahan won without Gary Kubiak?"

Even more pertinent: What if Mike Shanahan was never a QB genius? What if it was Gary Kubiak all along?

By "QB genius," I mean someone who can choose the right QB (assess various QBs accurately from afar) and develop that QB (help that QB to become productive in your system).

Obviously Mike Shanahan earned his stripes in the NFL, but he did so as an offensive strategist. He didn't find Joe Montana or Steve Young: Bill Walsh did. Steve Young had a 101.8 QB rating the year before Shanahan came to the 49ers. But, with Shanahan as offensive coordinator in 1992, the 49ers did go from 10-6 to 14-2. He took a very good offense and made it better.

Here's what he didn't do for the 49ers: pick Steve Young. He also didn't pick John Elway for the Broncos.

Meanwhile, Kubiak definitely picked Matt Schaub (trading for him), taking the Falcons backup QB and making him the Houston starter. Did he also pick Jake Plummer as a reclamation project?

...

Read the core of it all here, from a Redkins MB.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?357003-What-if-Mike-Shanahan-never-was-a-genius-at-picking-and-developing-QBs-What-if-Gary-Kubiak-was-the-QB-genius-all-along

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 05:08 PM
Are you offering the narrative that Kubiak had not earned the ability to provide a recommendation on potential QB signings, as the QB Coach and OC, in the early 2000's?

Didn't I say he offered his opinion? I am sure that would have included a recommendation. But what I am saying is you can't draw too much of a conclusion when his opinion is 3rd or 4th in the hierarchy. It may very well be Kubiak did recommend both Griese and Plummer but we don't know that. We do know Shanahan is a very strong willed guy who is unlikely to have just deferred to whatever Kubiak wanted. Maybe we should credit the Texans' DL coach for picking Watt.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:10 PM
What if Mike Shanahan never was a genius at picking and developing QBs? What if Gary Kubiak was the QB genius all along?
....

A common jibe at Mike Shanahan goes, "What has Shanahan won without Elway?" This is typically well answered, "What did Elway win without Shanahan?"

These may be the wrong questions. Better question: "What has Shanahan won without Gary Kubiak?"

Even more pertinent: What if Mike Shanahan was never a QB genius? What if it was Gary Kubiak all along?

By "QB genius," I mean someone who can choose the right QB (assess various QBs accurately from afar) and develop that QB (help that QB to become productive in your system).

Obviously Mike Shanahan earned his stripes in the NFL, but he did so as an offensive strategist. He didn't find Joe Montana or Steve Young: Bill Walsh did. Steve Young had a 101.8 QB rating the year before Shanahan came to the 49ers. But, with Shanahan as offensive coordinator in 1992, the 49ers did go from 10-6 to 14-2. He took a very good offense and made it better.

Here's what he didn't do for the 49ers: pick Steve Young. He also didn't pick John Elway for the Broncos.

Meanwhile, Kubiak definitely picked Matt Schaub (trading for him), taking the Falcons backup QB and making him the Houston starter. Did he also pick Jake Plummer as a reclamation project?

...

Read the core of it all here, from a Redkins MB.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?357003-What-if-Mike-Shanahan-never-was-a-genius-at-picking-and-developing-QBs-What-if-Gary-Kubiak-was-the-QB-genius-all-along

Nice find, but that thread was started in October 2011. Shanahan changed, gambled and won.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:16 PM
Didn't I say he offered his opinion? I am sure that would have included a recommendation. But what I am saying is you can't draw too much of a conclusion when his opinion is 3rd or 4th in the hierarchy. It may very well be Kubiak did recommend both Griese and Plummer but we don't know that. We do know Shanahan is a very strong willed guy who is unlikely to have just deferred to whatever Kubiak wanted. Maybe we should credit the Texans' DL coach for picking Watt.

I would expect free agents and draft picks to work in different silos. I would also expect to have an accomplished OC/QB coach have most of the input in the free agent recommendation.

Is there no accountability around Kubiak's career? Rhetorical question of course.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:18 PM
Nice find, but that thread was started in October 2011. Shanahan changed, gambled and won.

We don't know.

RG III is a QB that Art Briles developed, if anybody can be given credit for (where RG III came from in HS, the scheme and stufff was heavily influenced by Briles.)

Shannahan really didn't have much to do with him that I can really see as influential.

Besides, Shanahan's adaptation of the zone read to fit RG III's skill set isn't his (Shanahan's) cup of tea and it may backfire if RG III doesn't come back healthy next year.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:27 PM
We don't know.

RG III is a QB that Art Briles developed, if anybody can be given credit for (where RG III came from in HS, the scheme and stufff was heavily influenced by Briles.)

Shannahan really didn't have much to do with him that I can really see as influential.

Besides, Shanahan's adaptation of the zone read to fit RG III's skill set isn't his (Shanahan's) cup of tea and it may backfire if RG III doesn't come back healthy next year.

Exactly, the Shanahans are innovating. They understand that the labor pool is different and are taking action to apply to their playbook.

thunderkyss
01-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Tj Yates, or Alex Smith? Who you taking?

I like Tj Yates. I think if he ever gets a chance to start, he'll end up with a career much like Jake Plummer.

I liked watching Jake Plummer play, very entertaining. Sorta like Romo, but a notch down.

I like watching both Romo & Plummer play.... but I don't want either running my team.

Just trying to make conversation.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
Tj Yates, or Alex Smith? Who you taking?

I like Tj Yates. I think if he ever gets a chance to start, he'll end up with a career much like Jake Plummer.

I liked watching Jake Plummer play, very entertaining. Sorta like Romo, but a notch down.

I like watching both Romo & Plummer play.... but I don't want either running my team.

Just trying to make conversation.

I would take neither.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
What I've read (before and now) was that Elway was quoted directly (but I have to paraphrase) as saying that he felt like dying and going to heaven with Shanahan's retooling the WCO in Denver.

Kubiak was the QB in SF that Shanahan brought along to Denver, and being the studious type (that Elway credited him to be), was obviously the one who explained all the little details from the QB's perspective to Elway.

I don't know how much credit Kubiak should get for that, but the results showed that Elway had the most consistent period of his life from then on.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Exactly, the Shanahans are innovating. They understand that the labor pool is different and are taking action to apply to their playbook.

It's adaptation; the Zone read was adapted for Tebow and Cam Newton at the NFL level, nothing new there.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:35 PM
Actually it was adapted for VY several years back; maybe others too.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:35 PM
What I've read (before and now) was that Elway was quoted directly (but I have to paraphrase) as saying that he felt like dying and going to heaven with Shanahan's retooling the WCO in Denver.

Kubiak was the QB in SF that Shanahan brought along to Denver, and being the studious type (that Elway credited him to be), was obviously the one who explained all the little details from the QB's perspective to Elway.

I don't know how much credit Kubiak should get for that, but the results showed that Elway had the most consistent period of his life from then on.

Kubiak was Elway's back up his entire career. To attempt to illustrate a professorial Kubiak learning the n00b student Elway is odd.

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 05:37 PM
I would expect free agents and draft picks to work in different silos. I would also expect to have an accomplished OC/QB coach have most of the input in the free agent recommendation.

I am not sure why a position coach or OC would have more or less say on free agents or the draft.

There are just too many variables. Maybe Shanahan wanted a vet free agent and Kubiak wanted to draft a particular QB but then looked at the available FA pool and recommended Griese. We don't even know the available FA pool. Heck Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub are nothing alike as QBs so it doesn't make sense to me to put them together and say Kubiak is looking for one particular kind of QB if he is the decision maker. As a matter of fact Plummer was available when they went after Schaub.

All I am saying is there are a lot of assumptions being made and then some pretty radical extrapolations made from there. The only one we know for sure is Schaub.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:40 PM
Kubiak was Elway's back up his entire career. To attempt to illustrate a professorial Kubiak learning the n00b student Elway is odd.

Not really. They are still good friends.
One guy can have the physical ability and the other can have the mindset of a coach; it's pretty normal actually.

Premier
01-15-2013, 05:41 PM
Are you saying that he doesn't?

After AJ there is......


Martin?
Jean?
Walter?


I don't really care how much you hate the current QB. Any QB on this team would need new weapons. These WR's are terrible, and that wasn't hard to see at all before the season, unless you were one of the people that automatically entrenched Martin and Jean as valid play makers because of what they did in the pre season. Nothing inaccurate at all by saying Schaub needs more weapons. That is as plain as day.

i remember phil simms salivating at all the weapons at matt schaubs disposal, playing in a qb friendly system.. after AJ, The TEs get a bulk of the work done, even arian is a reliable option in the pass game. you know the scheme is designed to get guys open through PA.. who were schaubs weapons during thw year he lead th eleague in passing? andre, daniels, dreesen, walter, jacoby, minus a run game.. so ummm idk about all this he needs more weapons nonsense.. what qb couldnt use 2 legit receivers and a sure hands TE... some qbs can make average wideouts looks like stars..

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Kubiak went on to coaching when Elway remained playing.

The "new" lnowledge he learned from a new system is not available to the player (Elway) who played in a different system.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:42 PM
I am not sure why a position coach or OC would have more or less say on free agents or the draft.

There are just too many variables. Maybe Shanahan wanted a vet free agent and Kubiak wanted to draft a particular QB but then looked at the available FA pool and recommended Griese. We don't even know the available FA pool. Heck Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub are nothing alike as QBs so it doesn't make sense to me to put them together and say Kubiak is looking for one particular kind of QB if he is the decision maker. As a matter of fact Plummer was available when they went after Schaub.

All I am saying is there are a lot of assumptions being made and then some pretty radical extrapolations made from there. The only one we know for sure is Schaub.

After seven years do you have faith in Kubiak's offense, decision making process and "ability" to change with the game? I do not.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
Then the Broncos selected Brian Griese in the third round.
Griese was more or less a platoon player in college.
He developed quickly in Denver.
It was some nagging injuries that didn't allow him to become a better player.
I believe it played into the Broncos decision not to retain him long-term.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
Not really. They are still good friends.
One guy can have the physical ability and the other can have the mindset of a coach; it's pretty normal actually.

That and 50 cents will get you cup of "who the frig cares" as it relates to the Texans future.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:51 PM
Then the Broncos selected Brian Griese in the third round.
Griese was more or less a platoon player in college.
He developed quickly in Denver.
It was some nagging injuries that didn't allow him to become a better player.
I believe it played into the Broncos decision not to retain him long-term.

Platoon at Michigan or injuries dictated him being next man up?

Griese had one playoff season during his five year tenure in Denver. He was good enough to get them there.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:51 PM
That and 50 cents will get you cup of "who the frig cares" as it relates to the Texans future.

Obviously (to me at least) it doesn't foretell the Texans future; all this time, I was only responding to your much earlier post as to whether Kubiak is a guy who can develop or help QBs, that's all.

My responses were only limited to that and nothing more.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 05:53 PM
Platoon at Michigan or injuries dictated him being next man up?

Griese had one playoff season during his five year tenure in Denver. He was good enough to get them there.

I'm not sure I understand everything you want to say; can you elaborate?

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 05:54 PM
I was only responding to your much earlier post as to whether Kubiak is a guy who can develop or help QBs, that's all.


It is an awe inspiring list, and successes. :vincepalm:

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 05:57 PM
After seven years do you have faith in Kubiak's offense, decision making process and "ability" to change with the game? I do not.

I am undecided. Some games, for instance Denver, I thought he came out with a great aggressive game plan and it worked well. Other games not so much. I think at times his system works brilliantly and gets people wide open. Other games they either don't use the plays or don't execute them as well.

I just commented because I think people get over the top in their comments. I agreed with most of eriadoc's post and only took issue with one comment I thought went too far. It's like Premier's revisionist comment above about needing more weapons being nonsense. Every single off-season there have been tons of people clamoring to upgrade WR#2 and #3. Now it is "nonsense" to say the same thing.

thunderkyss
01-15-2013, 05:57 PM
After seven years do you have faith in Kubiak's offense, decision making process and "ability" to change with the game? I do not.

He just went 12-4 with the worst QB in the league & a defense that gives up 40+ points. He's won his division 2 years in a row & won 1 play off game with said QB & another play off game with the worst back-up in the league. A guy you wouldn't even have on your team.

He's got to be the worst talent evaluator in the league, but he's got to be the best coach. Sorry QB, sorry OL, sorry WRs, porous defense, sh1t for special teams.

That's one hell of a coach & one hell of a system.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 06:06 PM
He just went 12-4 with the worst QB in the league & a defense that gives up 40+ points. He's won his division 2 years in a row & won 1 play off game with said QB & another play off game with the worst back-up in the league. A guy you wouldn't even have on your team.

He's got to be the worst talent evaluator in the league, but he's got to be the best coach. Sorry QB, sorry OL, sorry WRs, porous defense, sh1t for special teams.

That's one hell of a coach & one hell of a system.

Fiddling around with semantics is fun. But I recommend you get rid of the fiddle and upgrade to a stradivarius.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 06:08 PM
It is an awe inspiring list, and successes. :vincepalm:

If you google it you will find stories about how Griese tripped on his dog, or on a faulty driveway that cause injury to his ankle, whatever.

More likely it was due to being drunk.

The fact remains that he had nagging injuries that prevented him from become better.

For a platoon player in college to a pro-bowl, I would think it wasn't bad at all.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 06:13 PM
On the other hand, if we're talking about adaption then I don't have an idea.

We do know, however, that the Texans had gone gaga passing before.
against the Saints or the Broncos for example, we came out firing on all cylinders, we didn't wait until we fell behind (we didn't fall behind in the Broncos game though.)

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 06:13 PM
I am undecided. Some games, for instance Denver, I thought he came out with a great aggressive game plan and it worked well. Other games not so much. I think at times his system works brilliantly and gets people wide open. Other games they either don't use the plays or don't execute them as well.

I just commented because I think people get over the top in their comments. I agreed with most of eriadoc's post and only took issue with one comment I thought went too far. It's like Premier's revisionist comment above about needing more weapons being nonsense. Every single off-season there have been tons of people clamoring to upgrade WR#2 and #3. Now it is "nonsense" to say the same thing.

Last question, what other instances in your life did you need to wait eight years, to make a call on ditching or keeping an asset, of which you have been front and center as an observer.

Makes me ponder why do we allow our best practices, gut checks and scaling calls, learned from professional and personal experiences, be trumped by football fanaticism in our collective dialogue.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 06:16 PM
If you google it you will find stories about how Griese tripped on his dog, or on a faulty driveway that cause injury to his ankle, whatever.

More likely it was due to being drunk.

The fact remains that he had nagging injuries that prevented him from become better.

For a platoon player in college to a pro-bowl, I would think it wasn't bad at all.

He was not a platoon player. Moreover, he had the profile and legacy of a game manager. If Griese were available in the draft next year, I would have no doubt we would draft him.

Nagging injuries for Griese, and Kubiak/Smith did not see it coming with Schaub?

thunderkyss
01-15-2013, 06:18 PM
Fiddling around with semantics is fun. But I recommend you get rid of the fiddle and upgrade to a stradivarius.

One or the other is true, has to be.

Either Schaub is good enough to win 12 games, the division, & a play off game


Or Kubiak's a genius. If you don't think Kubiak is a genius, then it doesn't make sense to give up on Schaub.




I don't think Kubiak is a genius.

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 06:19 PM
Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 06:28 PM
Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

Fili
01-15-2013, 06:28 PM
Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

76Texan
01-15-2013, 06:32 PM
He was not a platoon player. Moreover, he had the profile and legacy of a game manager. If Griese were available in the draft next year, I would have no doubt we would draft him.

Nagging injuries for Griese, and Kubiak/Smith did not see it coming with Schaub?

Forget about the platoon part; We don't even know who was responsible for drafting Griese. What we know is that whatever little he had success with was with the Broncos.

Schaub is a different player now as opposed to the one who first came here; he doesn't hold onto the ball too long anymore; he doesn't have that long winded motion anymore.

Rosenfels went somewhere and did a little something.

But back to the adaptation part (which I was never engaged in to start with), some 3-4 years ago, I suggested on this very board that I hope Kubiak befriends Art Briles, and that them two can have shop talk about the game of football.

All for the single reason that Briles was willing to try a lot of different things.
(I don't think people take to that idea back then, what can I say?)

infantrycak
01-15-2013, 06:40 PM
Last question, what other instances in your life did you need to wait eight years, to make a call on ditching or keeping an asset, of which you have been front and center as an observer.

Makes me ponder why do we allow our best practices, gut checks and scaling calls, learned from professional and personal experiences, be trumped by football fanaticism in our collective dialogue.

Yeah I have. For example (and this goes back to how much control people have as well) I had a very long discussion over drinks with the owner of the firm. He said we were two of the only three lawyers at the firm he would have go to trial or argue an appellate case. We then discussed many of the rest of the firm and I recommended replacing several - in the end he did not.

From the football world, Tom Landry who was a tremendous innovator and football genius didn't have a winning season until his 7th season. I would have hated to have seen him fired in that 8th off-season cutting off what was about to be 20 straight years of winning with 18 playoff appearances.

The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

I seriously doubt it was tactical. Last year there was a QB issue. I have seen nothing to indicate a breakdown in leadership. I don't know the reason for the slide other than as you mention it was a stiff part of the schedule.

Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

I made no such claim. I hate such foolish responses. If I had picked out mediocre QBs you would have said "see you are only comparing him to game managers" or some other way to dismiss reality.

76Texan
01-15-2013, 06:51 PM
And something else I remember.
Quite a few people was diminishing the idea of Art Briles doing something at Baylor, taking his gimmick offense from UH to the Big 12.

I know a lot of those people that cheer for RG III now.

And how about Sumlin who bypassed the Big 12 to go straight to the SEC.
Now Johnny Football is all the rage.

You see, Sumlin could have used Keenum the same way when he first got to UH, but he didn't.
He saw that Keenum is at his best making other players look better, and that's by distributing the football.

I think all coaches know that, and so they work out certain "philosophy" to best suit some of the key players on the team.

Hervoyel
01-15-2013, 08:17 PM
The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

I don't think the two years compare well. In 2011 you had an injury to the starting QB and the backup QB that thrust a 5th round draft pick into the mix. The offense went conservative while trying to get as much into Yates head as possible in the time available. In 2012 we collapsed down the stretch with most of the offense apparently healthy.

The two collapses don't look very much alike to me.

HJam72
01-15-2013, 08:28 PM
Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

The team is elite. He is a great 15 yd. passer and a terrible 30+ yd. passer (with ZERO mobility).

Kaiser Toro
01-15-2013, 09:07 PM
I don't think the two years compare well. In 2011 you had an injury to the starting QB and the backup QB that thrust a 5th round draft pick into the mix. The offense went conservative while trying to get as much into Yates head as possible in the time available. In 2012 we collapsed down the stretch with most of the offense apparently healthy.

The two collapses don't look very much alike to me.

Before each respective slide there was a seven and six game winning streak respectively. Back to back years, where did the team's onions go in 2011, and how does that happen the following year with so much on the line? It boggles my mind.

GP
01-15-2013, 09:22 PM
If I wasn't making a good-tasting steak for 6 or 7 years.........

....I'd probably change what type of spice rub I used, and I might even re-consider my grill and if I need to do something different there.

I wouldn't keep tossing a bland, unappetizing steak onto my dinner table.

But we all know people who do JUST that. People who suck at grilling, but they are legends in their own minds. I fear we have a head coach who thinks he's an awesome head coach. And his family, God love them, they just pat dad on the shoulder and say "Thanks for the steak, dad!"

Then one day the kids grow up, eat at their friends' house, and they sit there stunned. "How did you DO this? It's. Amazing...." And it dawns on them, "My dad's grill skills suuuuck."

thunderkyss
01-16-2013, 01:18 AM
If I wasn't making a good-tasting steak for 6 or 7 years.........

....

Are you telling me you haven't had fun over the last 6 or 7 years? You haven't enjoyed yourself once after winning the division the last two years running?

You didn't crack a smile after winning our first two play off games?

This steak may not be among the best in the world, but it's far from bland & tasteless.

GuerillaBlack
01-16-2013, 08:22 AM
Are you telling me you haven't had fun over the last 6 or 7 years? You haven't enjoyed yourself once after winning the division the last two years running?

You didn't crack a smile after winning our first two play off games?

This steak may not be among the best in the world, but it's far from bland & tasteless.

I smiled after clinching the division the first time and winning that playoff game. I smiled again this year after winning the division again. The playoff game against Cincy this year though, there was no smiling. The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though. Yates would have given us the better chance. He wouldn't have thrown the ball away three times after evading the rush. I doubt he would have fumbled the ball after evading the rush, with no one around him, because he was so nervous.

There needs to be a change at QB, but there won't be. Status quo lives on.

Mr teX
01-16-2013, 08:48 AM
I smiled after clinching the division the first time and winning that playoff game. I smiled again this year after winning the division again. The playoff game against Cincy this year though, there was no smiling. The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though. Yates would have given us the better chance. He wouldn't have thrown the ball away three times after evading the rush. I doubt he would have fumbled the ball after evading the rush, with no one around him, because he was so nervous.

There needs to be a change at QB, but there won't be. Status quo lives on.

There is zero you have to back up that claim. He may not have thrown the the ball away 3 times after evading the rush.....but he may have thrown a pick after evading that rush, which he showed a propensity to do in last year's game against the Ravens. Last year at around this time everyone was saying that we would've won that game if we had Schaub... You guys are just grasping at straws at this point.

GuerillaBlack
01-16-2013, 08:51 AM
There is zero you have to back up that claim. He may not have thrown the the ball away 3 times after evading the rush.....but he may have thrown a pick after evading that rush, which he showed a propensity to do in last year's game against the Ravens. Last year at around this time everyone was saying that we would've won that game if we had Schaub... You guys are just grasping at straws at this point.

There is zero evidence saying you could disprove that claim. And last year he was a rookie. Schaub is a nine year vet, yet he still can't tell the he evaded the rush, has no one within seven yards of him, and can make the throw downfield. You almost felt sorry for Schaub watching him last Sunday. He just can't do it. He's a backup. And some people were saying we would have won it with Schaub. After seeing Schaub now, in multiple games where the bright lights were on him, it is clear he can't deliver.

Mr teX
01-16-2013, 09:06 AM
There is zero evidence saying you could disprove that claim. And last year he was a rookie. Schaub is a nine year vet, yet he still can't tell the he evaded the rush, has no one within seven yards of him, and can make the throw downfield. You almost felt sorry for Schaub watching him last Sunday. He just can't do it. He's a backup. And some people were saying we would have won it with Schaub. After seeing Schaub now, in multiple games where the bright lights were on him, it is clear he can't deliver.

Sure there is...Yates' record in the playoffs is the exact same as Schaubs...1-1. He didn't exactly light it up against the Ravens in the playoffs either.....In his limited time this year he's got 1 int and 1 fumble. There isn't anything about what yates has done to this point in his career that says that this team would've fared any better against the Patriots with him at the helm than Schaub..

Hervoyel
01-16-2013, 09:35 AM
Before each respective slide there was a seven and six game winning streak respectively. Back to back years, where did the team's onions go in 2011, and how does that happen the following year with so much on the line? It boggles my mind.

I understand. Losing those QB's in 2011 though seems to me like the obvious reason for that late season collapse whereas there was no similar issue this year.

Now if we do something similar in 2013 without losing Schaub late in the year then I'd say it's reasonable to surmise that we would have folded up early in 2011 even if Schaub had not been hurt and a pattern emerges but the QB injuries in 2011 cloud the issue for now I think.

thunderkyss
01-16-2013, 09:56 AM
The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though.

Completely agree with this thought. No argument here.


Well... I believe if we were as good as our record showed, we wouldn't have been playing Wild Card weekend. However, I think it's obvious that we weren't that good.

As far as changing the QB, I agree that is one option. Another option would be to get back to where we were when our QB performed well. Let's get back to an up tempo offense, let's get back to 4 & 5 wide sets. I think that is more probable than finding that QB that can play at a higher level.