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TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 06:26 PM
First of all, Schaub has been exposed. He can't consistently make plays or even be expected to start a game on point. He is holding this offense back tremendously with his physical limitations and honestly his decision making.

Wade Phillips needs to adapt or get fired. Welker and Hernandez killed man coverage in the regular season matchup and what do we do today, more man coverage. News flash Wade, you can't use that much man coverage against the Pats. It was clear in the regular season and its even clearer now. What's up with us putting an ILB out on running backs when they line up out wide as receivers? They recognize it and get huge plays every single time. Wade did a horrible job preparing for this game and then adjusting to the game as it went on. Our secondary is not comprised of bad players, we should have been able to hold them to alot less in the passing game.

We need to take a hard look at both Schaub and Wade in the offseason.

TexanSam
01-13-2013, 06:29 PM
Wade's defense was fantastic last season and for the first half this season. All the injuries have decimated the entire unit. To even think about firing him is crazy. We suffered through some awful years of non-existant D and people are upset after 6 or 7 games where they weren't elite?

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 06:32 PM
I think we've seen the best of wade's defenses....some glaring things have popped out...lb's on wr's continously...no real adjustments out at the half either...this is the exact same way his defenses have faired everywhere he's been..

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 06:34 PM
Wade's defense was fantastic last season and for the first half this season. All the injuries have decimated the entire unit. To even think about firing him is crazy. We suffered through some awful years of non-existant D and people are upset after 6 or 7 games where they weren't elite?

You think Cushing could have helped us covering Hernandez and Welker in man coverage? No, he can't. Yes, we missed Cushing. Would we have won this game with him or contained Welker and Hernandez more? No. The problem was gameplan and it was clear as day. I don't care how well Wade's defense does against mediocre offenses. I care if he can slow down the elite offenses, and his gameplan was horrible today and will never beat the pats even if we have 3 probowl cornerbacks.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 06:39 PM
Wade is solid. Schaub sucks. Niners 41 pats 34. Ravens 38 broncos 35. You blame their DCs for the point ts t. this league you gotta score points on offense

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 06:42 PM
i overestimated this defense. i thought it would be good enough to stand on it's i own despite a struggling offense like the 2009-2010 jets but that's not the case. they look mediocre against above average qb's.


at this point we should just restart and rebuild the offense and it starts with schaub.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 06:43 PM
Wade is solid. Schaub sucks. Niners 41 pats 34. Ravens 38 broncos 35. You blame their DCs for the point ts t. this league you gotta score points on offense

Did you watch the game? You don't sit back and look at points at the end of the game. You determine how the opponent's offense was so successful against you, especially in the red zone. The answer was the gameplan. Man coverage nearly all game and poor matchups created by the defensive gameplan. If you can't see that, and go to an argument regarding other teams and other games and points scored, you don't know what your talking about or you didn't watch the game. Simple as that.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 06:44 PM
Wade is solid. Schaub sucks. Niners 41 pats 34. Ravens 38 broncos 35. You blame their DCs for the point ts t. this league you gotta score points on offense

Anytime a defense gives up 30 pts or more its a failure dude. Both times we've faced the patriots we've given that up....wade's better than what we've had, but he's got his issues...

Rey
01-13-2013, 06:44 PM
Welker was open too....

dtran04
01-13-2013, 06:47 PM
As long as the Texans don't play teams with spread offenses, they'll be alright.....

So that means Patriots, Packers, Saints, Lions, and many more soon.

Wade has to evolve with the game or he will be left in the dust.

Urlacher in his prime would have a hard time guarding TEs and RBs split way out wide with no help.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 06:52 PM
As long as the Texans don't play teams with spread offenses, they'll be alright.....

So that means Patriots, Packers, Saints, Lions, and many more soon.

Wade has to evolve with the game or he will be left in the dust.

Urlacher in his prime would have a hard time guarding TEs and RBs split way out wide with no help.

And that is part of my point. You could have 3 pro bowl corners out there and a pro bowl safety to matchup with their TEs and they would still kill you if you use that gameplan. It will never work against a team like the Pats.

Hervoyel
01-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Anytime a defense gives up 30 pts or more its a failure dude. Both times we've faced the patriots we've given that up....wade's better than what we've had, but he's got his issues...

Granted. Now accept that if the offense would actually score points and eat clock this shortcoming would be mitigated. The point is that the Patriots offense is so good that even great defenses fail. When that happens offenses have to step up. It's not like the Patriots have this incredible defense. They're not 85 Bears or some ****. Teams score on them.

Just not us. Not when the outcome is in doubt. If Wade has to be worried about the game passing him by then Gary needs to get the **** out of town because the game left his sorry FG kicking predictable play calling ass behind in the middle of the last decade.

Rufus Jarvis
01-13-2013, 07:02 PM
I'd keep Wade. I really like him as a coach.

Dishman
01-13-2013, 07:02 PM
Wade is solid. Schaub sucks. Niners 41 pats 34. Ravens 38 broncos 35. You blame their DCs for the point ts t. this league you gotta score points on offense

Agreed, that was a big theme this weekend.

Thorn
01-13-2013, 07:04 PM
Granted. Now accept that if the offense would actually score points and eat clock this shortcoming would be mitigated. The point is that this offense is so good that even great defenses fail. When that happens offenses have to step up. It's not like the Patriots have this incredible defense. They're not 85 Bears or some ****. Teams score on them.

Just not us. Not when the outcome is in doubt. If Wade has to be worried about the game passing him by then Gary needs to get the **** out of town because the game left his sorry FG kicking predictable play calling ass behind in the middle of the last decade.

Yep. MSR. Where's the "fire Kubiak" thread? I'm ready to start posting in it again. Although it won't do any good. Kubiak, Schaub and all the rest will be back next year. We'll probably win the AFC south again as well. We are the new Colts. In another decade or so maybe we might actually get to the AFC championship.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 07:04 PM
Granted. Now accept that if the offense would actually score points and eat clock this shortcoming would be mitigated. The point is that this offense is so good that even great defenses fail. When that happens offenses have to step up. It's not like the Patriots have this incredible defense. They're not 85 Bears or some ****. Teams score on them.

Just not us. Not when the outcome is in doubt. If Wade has to be worried about the game passing him by then Gary needs to get the **** out of town because the game left his sorry FG kicking predictable play calling ass behind in the middle of the last decade.

We had a touchdown on that first drive if Casey catches the ball and then if Schaub makes a better throw to AJ in the endZone on the very next play. The problem with the offense is the QB. All this stuff is clear as day guys, it doesn't take an expert to see it. Teams figured out what Schaub can and can't do and have been stopping our run game as a result. Two things he can't do is throw the ball downfield or to the deep sideline route accurately, so we have no big passing plays. Teams are just crowding the middle of the field and selling out on our stretch game. Kubiak is not the problem on offense, the problem is Schaub.

Vinny
01-13-2013, 07:06 PM
this team was out coached on both sides of the ball. Schaub's dinking and dunking a reflection of Kubiaks no risk/no reward style.

fiasco west
01-13-2013, 07:07 PM
Who are our LBs?

Outside of Reed, (and the young guys like Mercilus) they can all go.

deucetx
01-13-2013, 07:11 PM
Wade definitely has his issues. What is with the team not lining up properly and not knowing who to cover at this point? No excuses for that. He also needs to adjust better and hasn't been able to find a way to make our edge rushers worth a darn all season. It's been all Watt and Smith.

With that said...he's still a top ten defensive coordinator in this league. You don't just toss this out because how many guys that are better are out there? None except maybe one who is arguable and is looking for a head coach job anyway. So Wade just needs to adjust and get some more personnel here. No more ex-cowboys if even the Cowboys don't want them.

Schaub...just no words. He is so limited it isn't even funny. I never understood why we signed him so fast to the extension. I was certain they were going to let the season play out but nope. They rushed it. Just can't see how we haven't already seen the best we'll get from Schaub at this point.

Rey
01-13-2013, 07:13 PM
We had a touchdown on that first drive if Casey catches the ball and then if Schaub makes a better throw to AJ in the endZone on the very next play. The problem with the offense is the QB. All this stuff is clear as day guys, it doesn't take an expert to see it. Teams figured out what Schaub can and can't do and have been stopping our run game as a result. Two things he can't do is throw the ball downfield or to the deep sideline route accurately, so we have no big passing plays. Teams are just crowding the middle of the field and selling out on our stretch game. Kubiak is not the problem on offense, the problem is Schaub.

I think Kubiak is conservative by nature, but with Schaub at QB he becomes even more so.

Not a good recipe.

A conservative coach with Chad Pennington/John Kitna at QB = an offense that just can't quite get it done.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:13 PM
Did you watch the game? You don't sit back and look at points at the end of the game. You determine how the opponent's offense was so successful against you, especially in the red zone. The answer was the gameplan. Man coverage nearly all game and poor matchups created by the defensive gameplan. If you can't see that, and go to an argument regarding other teams and other games and points scored, you don't know what your talking about or you didn't watch the game. Simple as that.
or you could look at how schaub has been unsuccesful in the red zone forever? gameplan an average qb vs a hall of famer. or you could look forward to schaub as your qb next year and some ol crap in playoffs. schaub sucks bro, suck it. our window is closed so long as hes our qb

utahmark
01-13-2013, 07:14 PM
I don't think anyone wants to let Wade go... At least I hope not. But if you can't see how bad Wade's defense is against spread offenses, then your not watching very close. New England, Green Bay, and New Orleans score on everyone but you would hope our defense could slow them down a little
instead they score higher than normal when playing us. Wade needs to adapt.

As for Schaub... He played scared and we need a replacement. The sooner the better.

utahmark
01-13-2013, 07:15 PM
I think Kubiak is conservative by nature, but with Schaub at QB he becomes even more so.

Not a good recipe.

A conservative coach with Chad Pennington/John Kitna at QB = an offense that just can't quite get it done.

What happened to this offense? They used to score.

amazing80
01-13-2013, 07:16 PM
this team was out coached on both sides of the ball. Schaub's dinking and dunking a reflection of Kubiaks no risk/no reward style.

Im sorry but I don't buy that we changed our entire play book and stopped looking deep, I think Schaub just stopped throwing deep....nothing to do with play calling, the dude still has to execute the plays...

I will say Gary made some stupid calls, like constantly running straight at Wilfork, or continuing to throw wr screens when dbs were in press coverage.....thats inexcusable, but the deep throws IMO are a result of Schaub being an idiot

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 07:17 PM
or you could look at how schaub has been unsuccesful in the red zone forever? gameplan an average qb vs a hall of famer. or you could look forward to schaub as your qb next year and some ol crap in playoffs. schaub sucks bro, suck it. our window is closed so long as hes our qb

Um, ok? That wasn't your point earlier, but if you read you would see that I don't think Schaub is very good.

Brisco_County
01-13-2013, 07:17 PM
Time of possession. Period.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 07:20 PM
Im sorry but I don't buy that we changed our entire play book and stopped looking deep, I think Schaub just stopped throwing deep....nothing to do with play calling, the dude still has to execute the plays...

I will say Gary made some stupid calls, like constantly running straight at Wilfork, or continuing to throw wr screens when dbs were in press coverage.....thats inexcusable, but the deep throws IMO are a result of Schaub being an idiot

No, the lack of deep passing plays is a result of Schaub's physical limitations and how teams are starting to play him. They are not worried about the deep stuff anymore, because Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the quick throwing motion to make it work. It's a representation of how teams have adapted to our offense. It started mid-season and is now the new blueprint.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 07:21 PM
Its not that i want to replace wade, i just acknowledge the suck is team wide, not localized to 1 guy. The defense is supposed to be the strength of our team....they've carried us alot this season. Yet, in our biggest games of the year they've been worse. That's a problem.

This team reminds me of the 2000 TB bucs...constantly kept falling short in the playoffs despite having 1 of if not the top defense in the league for years.. Made a coaching change and they finally broke thru.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
No, the lack of deep passing plays is a result of Schaub's physical limitations and how teams are starting to play him. They are not worried about the deep stuff anymore, because Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the quick throwing motion to make it work. It's a representation of how teams have adapted to our offense. It started mid-season and is now the new blueprint.

Teams already know this a gazillion years ago.

qqert
01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
this team was out coached on both sides of the ball. Schaub's dinking and dunking a reflection of Kubiaks no risk/no reward style.


this big time. we need a mobile QB before talk of Superbowl.
even harbaugh/49ers realized that.

deucetx
01-13-2013, 07:27 PM
Time of possession. Period.

We did win the TOP. Plus this is overrated. TOP means little when you go against a team that runs no-huddle like the Patriots where everything happens so fast your darn defense can't even line up.

beerlover
01-13-2013, 07:29 PM
this team was out coached on both sides of the ball. Schaub's dinking and dunking a reflection of Kubiaks no risk/no reward style.

Agreed. If McNair really wants to win a championship he needs to hire a brilliant mind like Chip Kelly who takes calculated risks.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 07:30 PM
No, the lack of deep passing plays is a result of Schaub's physical limitations and how teams are starting to play him. They are not worried about the deep stuff anymore, because Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the quick throwing motion to make it work. It's a representation of how teams have adapted to our offense. It started mid-season and is now the new blueprint.

Schaub did not have a great game. However, the Texans gave up 41 points to New England despite a clean game by the special teams and without any defensive touchdowns... And, they could've scored more.

Schaub does not eat up 20% of the cap like Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees. The team is structured to win differently. Part of that means tight ends catching perfect passes on slant routes for touchdowns. It also means the defense needs to have a clue and not slam into each other trying to figure out which side is the strong side.

Wade was horribly exposed. He can't adjust. He did a lot to turn this defense around. His staff has done an amazing job of teaching and developing players. However, good offensive minds scheme him to death, and he is helpless to adjust. Kubiak is the same way on offense. The interception that Schaub threw to #50 happened because the Pats new exactly what the play was going to be and dropped him into the zone.

What I will say is that the Texans offense can be much better if they add some explosive talent. They don't have near the talent and resources that Wade has at his disposal.

Still, it is deflating to see the inability for the Texans (on both sides of the ball) to adapt from the last game or as things happened during this game.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:34 PM
Um, ok? That wasn't your point earlier, but if you read you would see that I don't think Schaub is very good.

unless we change qb we suck again

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 07:35 PM
Schaub did not have a great game. However, the Texans gave up 41 points to New England despite a clean game by the special teams and without any defensive touchdowns... And, they could've scored more.

Schaub does not eat up 20% of the cap like Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees. The team is structured to win differently. Part of that means tight ends catching perfect passes on slant routes for touchdowns. It also means the defense needs to have a clue and not slam into each other trying to figure out which side is the strong side.

Wade was horribly exposed. He can't adjust. He did a lot to turn this defense around. His staff has done an amazing job of teaching and developing players. However, good offensive minds scheme him to death, and he is helpless to adjust. Kubiak is the same way on offense. The interception that Schaub threw to #50 happened because the Pats new exactly what the play was going to be and dropped him into the zone.

What I will say is that the Texans offense can be much better if they add some explosive talent. They don't have near the talent and resources that Wade has at his disposal.

Still, it is deflating to see the inability for the Texans (on both sides of the ball) to adapt from the last game or as things happened during this game.

Funny that you say we aren't built like the 4 Super Bowl winners. That's how teams win. They put their money on the guy that touches the ball on every play. You explained the problem in your second paragraph.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:38 PM
Funny that you say we aren't built like the 4 Super Bowl winners. That's how teams win. They put their money on the guy that touches the ball on every play. You explained the problem in your second paragraph.

It's not as simple as that. The Broncos put a ton of money on Peyton.
What did they get?

MasterCush
01-13-2013, 07:39 PM
I like Wade. His defenses get burned against elite QBs but he completely turned our defense around last year and he deserves another year or two.

Schaub has been sucking lately. I don't care how good a team is, you can't have a physical weakling at the most important position. I can only imagine what our team would look like with a big physical threat right there that can fire a long ball and run too. I don't think Schaub is a good leader. He's just an unathletic bald fart who inspires absolutely no passion into the other players. If there's a good chance to get another QB this year then we should definitely jump on it. If not, give him ONE more year.

qqert
01-13-2013, 07:40 PM
It's not as simple as that. The Broncos put a ton of money on Peyton.
What did they get?

put peyton in instead of schaub i reckon we have a better chance.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:41 PM
Its not that i want to replace wade, i just acknowledge the suck is team wide, not localized to 1 guy. The defense is supposed to be the strength of our team....they've carried us alot this season. Yet, in our biggest games of the year they've been worse. That's a problem.

This team reminds me of the 2000 TB bucs...constantly kept falling short in the playoffs despite having 1 of if not the top defense in the league for years.. Made a coaching change and they finally broke thru.

defense was the strength of our team last year and our oline was awesome. thats how yates got it done. everyone expected schaub to plug in and superbowl. n ot the case. things change. remember slaton. schaub sucked with a D that wasnt elite and a oline that had changes. this team not as good as a year ago. qb change is the break thru

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 07:41 PM
It's not as simple as that. The Broncos put a ton of money on Peyton.
What did they get?

They got a team that can compete and win any game. The Texans don't have that.

ralph
01-13-2013, 07:42 PM
This team reminds me of the 2000 TB bucs...constantly kept falling short in the playoffs despite having 1 of if not the top defense in the league for years.. Made a coaching change and they finally broke thru.

You're crazy if you think this defense is the same as that TB D.

welsh texan
01-13-2013, 07:43 PM
Not ready to run Wade Phillips out of town just yet, I think injuries took their toll on the D moreso this year than last, Mario was a luxury piece but Cushing freed up Reed and Barwin to make plays off the edge and JJ Watt was beginning to find his feet around the time he went down too lowering the net loss.

I think we saw the loss of Cushing was about the worst thing that could happen to this D, even before you look at the leadership aspect simply the opportunities he opens up for other guys around him, the way that NT spot is covered for by him as well as the fact the OLB's have fewer responsibilities to take care of and so they can rush more effectively, its huge.

Then you look at the injury to Cody, not sure he ever got back to 100% and he isn't the best anyway. JoJo seemed to be nicked up all year long and not his usual self.

I really do believe that as far as the D goes, injuries were more hurtful than last season. ILB was a mess all season long and I think we need to look at that position and NT fairly early in the draft.

As far as Schaub, not really sure where Kubes will stand on that, I don't think he's the entire problem with the O, I think the line needs to improve a lot over the off-season and tbh I'm unsure whether that right side will improve with experience or whether it requires another overhaul. We've seen guys like Myers, Brown & Brisiel all take years to develop into quality players in this system so maybe we're best off developing what we've got.

I think Kubiak's scheme has gone down a couple of dead ends as well. Plenty of QB's set to be available this year, whether any of them are an upgrade over Schaub is debatable, and whether they are affordable is another thing entirely. Alex Smith has a similar issue with racking up great stats as Schaub does to me, and his hit rate of being successful under different O-co's is cause for worry. Vick would be interesting in this system because I genuinely believe his athleticism would be dynamite, but he's no better as a passer than Schaub. At least we have Yates to back him up in case of injury though. Matt Flynn might be do-able, think he's set to make ~$5.5m next season and is only signed through the next 2 years, meaning we wouldn't be setting ourselves up for years of misery if he becomes the next Cassel/Kolb/Schaub backup QB signing (I jest a little putting Schaub in that catagory, I'd actually say the trade we made was a success because he's brought us a long way, health, age and possibly temperament are the only things that stop me thinking he can take us to the next level.)

The number of holes we have on this team, especially when you consider the upcoming FA's, make it hard to start taking flyers on high round QB's if they don't have special talent. On the other hand we do have Yates who can at least game manage our way to a respectable record if any move to replace Schaub doesn't work out.

I don't want to get too reactionary, this team has come a long way, the transition to the 3-4 D still hasn't been given the full chance to develop as the personnel still don't fit at a number of positions in the front 7, both with a couple of starters and a number of backups.

So Wade gets a pass, Schaub should be replaced if feaseable, but my god did that extension **** this franchise up in terms of options. Had we waited until now his asking price would have dropped considerably, and we'd have seen zero cost to letting him walk.

I'd sure like to be in position to take Flynn at $5.5m right now and keep on drafting mid-round QBs at low cost until we get our guy. Would have looked very nice on the cap number too.

This regime screwed the pooch by pulling the trigger too early, and whilst we know it ain't gonna happen this offseason, there is every chance that that will be the one decision that will orchestrate their eventual downfall. Taken a liberty with the cap situation as well as the most important position in the game. Schaub is beyond his not considerable peak, thanks for what you've done for the franchise Matt, but he should be clearing his locker room tomorrow instead of causing us this huge headache, and that isn't his fault, its on Gary and Rick.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 07:45 PM
Funny that you say we aren't built like the 4 Super Bowl winners. That's how teams win. They put their money on the guy that touches the ball on every play. You explained the problem in your second paragraph.

Because it is very hard to find an elite QB... We have a good QB but not an elite one. We are built to win like the Ravens, the Giants, the Steelers, the 49ers, the Seahawks...

that's how our cap money and talent is allocated. What moves would you have made differently? Hall of fame QBs don't grow on trees.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 07:47 PM
They got a team that can compete and win any game. The Texans don't have that.

Yet they were upset in a game that they pretty much dominated...the same for GB with aaron rodgers. I keep telling everyone on here that Its just not as simple as finding a better qb....our defense was exposed tonite...our coach was exposed tonite. How does a better qb overcome those 2 variables?

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:48 PM
Because it is very hard to find an elite QB... We have a good QB but not an elite one. We are built to win like the Ravens, the Giants, the Steelers, the 49ers, the Seahawks...

that's how our cap money and talent is allocated. What moves would you have made differently? Hall of fame QBs don't grow on trees.

extending a guy who hadnt won a playoff game was a bad move. flacco not extended. flacco will play next weekend.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:49 PM
Yet they were upset in a game that they pretty much dominated...the same for GB with aaron rodgers. I keep telling everyone on here that Its just not as simple as finding a better qb....our defense was exposed tonite...our coach was exposed tonite. How does a better qb overcome those 2 variables?

rodgers in our O? lol

ObsiWan
01-13-2013, 07:49 PM
Im sorry but I don't buy that we changed our entire play book and stopped looking deep, I think Schaub just stopped throwing deep....nothing to do with play calling, the dude still has to execute the plays...

I will say Gary made some stupid calls, like constantly running straight at Wilfork, or continuing to throw wr screens when dbs were in press coverage.....thats inexcusable, but the deep throws IMO are a result of Schaub being an idiot

Agreed. Not sure why, but the 2009 Schaub used to throw deep take a few chances. The 2012 Schaub looks to check down way too much. Seems like if Schaub sees deep safety play, he won't go deep. That tells me he has little confidence in his own arm strength. And what good is a QB who doesn't have faith in his own damned arm?

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:53 PM
rodgers in our O? lol

The problem is if you have Rodgers, you'd have to cut 2/3 of the guys on the O.

ObsiWan
01-13-2013, 07:53 PM
No, the lack of deep passing plays is a result of Schaub's physical limitations and how teams are starting to play him. They are not worried about the deep stuff anymore, because Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the quick throwing motion to make it work. It's a representation of how teams have adapted to our offense. It started mid-season and is now the new blueprint.

Yeah, and to compound matters, Schaub knows it too. He rarely throws deep if he sees safeties over the top. A couple of plays this game, AJ was furious because he was single covered and Schaub wouldn't pull the trigger on the deep throw.

TEXANRED
01-13-2013, 07:56 PM
this team was out coached on both sides of the ball. Schaub's dinking and dunking a reflection of Kubiaks no risk/no reward style.

Agreed. How is it you have a QB who throws for 4K yards, one of the best receivers in the game, one of the bests LT's in the game, one of the best running backs in the game, the best DE in the game, and one of the best CB's in the game and get rolled by the Pats?

Any other coach in the NFL would have multiple SB's. Gary Kubiak is no better than Jerry Glanville.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 07:56 PM
rodgers in our O? lol

Of course we're better on offense but i fail to see how rodgers or any other qb overcomes kubiak's dumb play calling and WR's dropping passes.....or our defense getting a 40 spot hung on em'.

Last night we saw what a great defense in SF is supposed to do to an elite qb..our defense was no where close to SF's defensive performance today...and Rodgers could do little to overcome SF's defense either...or his own defense's performance for that matter. does that mean he sux?

Rey
01-13-2013, 07:58 PM
In case people haven't noticed this is an offensive league these days.

Not many defenses these days are going to consistently hold opposing offenses to 21 or fewer.

You either get with it or get lost. If you can't throw up 35+ against some of these good teams then you're just going to get left behind.

This isnt your grandpappy's NFL.

Offenses that can't spark it up in big games against good teams are going the way of the dodo.

Schaub is a dinosaur.

ObsiWan
01-13-2013, 07:59 PM
Agreed. How is it you have a QB who throws for 4K yards, one of the best receivers in the game, one of the bests LT's in the game, one of the best running backs in the game, the best DE in the game, and one of the best CB's in the game and get rolled by the Pats?

Any other coach in the NFL would have multiple SB's. Gary Kubiak is no better than Jerry Glanville.

Because the guy coaching the Pats was winning Super Bowls when Schaub was still in college and Kubiak was still relaying plays for Shanahan in Denver. You give Belichick TWO WEEKS to prepare a game plan and Brady TWO WEEKS to figure out your defensive tendencies, they will beat you.

It's really that simple

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 08:00 PM
The problem is if you have Rodgers, you'd have to cut 2/3 of the guys on the O.

well rodgers dont need AJS salary

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 08:01 PM
The problem is if you have Rodgers, you'd have to cut 2/3 of the guys on the O.

nor fosters

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 08:02 PM
what if the pats just steamroll their way to a super bowl victory?

i hope that doesn't give kubiak/wade/smith the "well, we lost to the champs" excuse

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 08:02 PM
Yet they were upset in a game that they pretty much dominated...the same for GB with aaron rodgers. I keep telling everyone on here that Its just not as simple as finding a better qb....our defense was exposed tonite...our coach was exposed tonite. How does a better qb overcome those 2 variables?

And I have stated that we need to look hard at both our QB and our defensive coordinator. It does start with the quartberback though, especially long-term money decisions.

Vinny
01-13-2013, 08:03 PM
Agreed. How is it you have a QB who throws for 4K yards, one of the best receivers in the game, one of the bests LT's in the game, one of the best running backs in the game, the best DE in the game, and one of the best CB's in the game and get rolled by the Pats?

Any other coach in the NFL would have multiple SB's. Gary Kubiak is no better than Jerry Glanville.
Kubiak's Texans offense reminds me of Richie Kotite and the washed up Boomer Esiason Jets offense back in '95

TEXANRED
01-13-2013, 08:04 PM
Because the guy coaching the Pats was winning Super Bowls when Schaub was still in college and Kubiak was still relaying plays for Shanahan in Denver. You give Belichick TWO WEEKS to prepare a game plan and Brady TWO WEEKS to figure out your defensive tendencies, they will beat you.

It's really that simple

Bull hockey. It's not Belichik it's Kubiak's ineptitude. I bet you the Ravens beat the Patriots next week.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 08:07 PM
Bull hockey. It's not Belichik it's Kubiak's ineptitude. I bet you the Ravens beat the Patriots next week.

No way man, the Ravens have worse players in their secondary than we do. Granted, I am sure they won't make the dumb mistake of playing man coverage all game but still.

dtran04
01-13-2013, 08:07 PM
I'm VERY curious as to how the Ravens hide Ray Lewis next week when the Pats spread them out.

Surely they won't be stubborn and stick him man on man on the edge right?

Vinny
01-13-2013, 08:09 PM
I'm VERY curious as to how the Ravens hide Ray Lewis next week when the Pats spread them out.

Surely they won't be stubborn and stick him man on man on the edge right?
they won't play as much man as we do

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 08:10 PM
I'm VERY curious as to how the Ravens hide Ray Lewis next week when the Pats spread them out.

Surely they won't be stubborn and stick him man on man on the edge right?

Ya, you won't see Ray Lewis or Ellerbe out wide against Shane Vareen ala Barrett Ruud and Bradie James. How Wade thought that would work is beyond me.

legacy_gt
01-13-2013, 08:10 PM
Agreed. Not sure why, but the 2009 Schaub used to throw deep take a few chances. The 2012 Schaub looks to check down way too much. Seems like if Schaub sees deep safety play, he won't go deep. That tells me he has little confidence in his own arm strength. And what good is a QB who doesn't have faith in his own damned arm?

part...but alot is the play calling. you saw some gun slinging from schaub at the end.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 08:10 PM
I'm VERY curious as to how the Ravens hide Ray Lewis next week when the Pats spread them out.

Surely they won't be stubborn and stick him man on man on the edge right?

It'll probably be ellerbe...he's pretty good in coverage.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 08:15 PM
It'll probably be ellerbe...he's pretty good in coverage.

Not good enough to cover RB's and TE's when they line up out wide as WRs.

TexanBacker93
01-13-2013, 08:26 PM
The defense didn't get the job done, but if the offense wasn't so bad for long stretches it could have been a different story. 4 straight possessions after our great opening drive of 3 yards for 3 points and we punt 4 straight times. Get something more than a 2 and a half minute drive and put some touchdowns on the board and you limit what Brady can do. Keep him off the field and keep the ball out of his hands and you can keep them from scoring. They forced 4 3 and outs and 5 punts overall, but our offense can't capitalize. Our QB can't make plays with his feet and will throw the ball away on 3rd down instead of trying to make a play down the field. The only time we do throw it deep is on 3rd or 4th and 1 or 2.

It is the defenses responsibility to stop the other team from scoring. You aren't going to shut Tom Brady out, but you should be able to expect some help from your offense.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 08:29 PM
well rodgers dont need AJS salary

nor fosters

First of all, where's Rodgers ?

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, the Packers spent more money on their receivers than us this year.

Lastly, Foster was not of help in this game as he was supposed to.

legacy_gt
01-13-2013, 08:31 PM
The defense didn't get the job done, but if the offense wasn't so bad for long stretches it could have been a different story. 4 straight possessions after our great opening drive of 3 yards for 3 points and we punt 4 straight times. Get something more than a 2 and a half minute drive and put some touchdowns on the board and you limit what Brady can do. Keep him off the field and keep the ball out of his hands and you can keep them from scoring. They forced 4 3 and outs and 5 punts overall, but our offense can't capitalize. Our QB can't make plays with his feet and will throw the ball away on 3rd down instead of trying to make a play down the field. The only time we do throw it deep is on 3rd or 4th and 1 or 2.

It is the defenses responsibility to stop the other team from scoring. You aren't going to shut Tom Brady out, but you should be able to expect some help from your offense.

you're not going to win if you have to score more than forty something against a playoff patriots either.

amazing80
01-13-2013, 08:33 PM
I will say, wtf did Wade keep blitzing on 3rd downs even though we consistently got burned for it.....he needs to learn to change his scheme some, the nfl is evolving and he is being left behind, as is Gary

TexanBacker93
01-13-2013, 08:40 PM
you're not going to win if you have to score more than forty something against a playoff patriots either.

No, but 10 of those points are a result of the INT by Schaub and the onside kick which I don't think is done if we had another score in there.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 08:46 PM
No, but 10 of those points are a result of the INT by Schaub and the onside kick which I don't think is done if we had another score in there.

And we could have had a Td if Casey didn't drop that pass.
And we could

Rey
01-13-2013, 08:48 PM
And we could have had a Td if Casey didn't drop that pass.
And we could

We also could have had a TD if schaub didn't overthrow Andre the next play.

How many passes did welker drop?

Also, there's a good chance we don't even make it down there without the long kick return.

Texans had pretty good field position most if the game.

Premier
01-13-2013, 08:49 PM
if not for wade, schaubiak is at best an 8-8 team.. he either needs to leave or takeover. expose schaub for what he is. without a halfway decent defense we wont win the division..

76Texan
01-13-2013, 09:00 PM
We also could have had a TD if schaub didn't overthrow Andre the next play.

How many passes did welker drop?

Also, there's a good chance we don't even make it down there without the long kick return.

Texans had pretty good field position most if the game.

Are we talking about the Texans offense or the Pats offense?

How many points did we score?
How many points did Peyton and Rodgers score?

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:04 PM
Are we talking about the Texans offense or the Pats offense?

How many points did we score?
How many points did Peyton and Rodgers score?

They lost, who cares?

You're happy to compare us to losing teams?

76Texan
01-13-2013, 09:07 PM
They lost, who cares?

You're happy to compare us to losing teams?

Oh so Peyton and Rodgers can suck, but Schaub got crucified?

And BTW, the Pats still had better overall field position.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 09:12 PM
First of all, Schaub has been exposed. He can't consistently make plays or even be expected to start a game on point. He is holding this offense back tremendously with his physical limitations and honestly his decision making.

We need to take a hard look at both Schaub.

I'm not a Schaub fan. I only defend him, because the commentary on him is just way out of whack right now. But Peyton Manning & Aaron Rogers both lost this weekend, if those two QB who won Super Bowls & MVPs can lose in the divisional round, then losing in the divisional round does not mean that Schaub can't win a Super Bowl.

Their teams scored more points... If our defense or special teams would have scored, we'd have scored as much as their teams did.

Schaub didn't play as poorly as Manning did.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 09:14 PM
I think we've seen the best of wade's defenses....some glaring things have popped out...lb's on wr's continously...no real adjustments out at the half either...this is the exact same way his defenses have faired everywhere he's been..

I saw a LB defend a pass against WRs in the Washington game, the ravens game, & the Falcons game.

Those LBs could do it.... ours can't. Lbs on WRs isn't anything new. I'm most impressed about Brian Urlacher because of his ability to drop deep into coverage & defend WRs. Well, when he was younger.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:15 PM
Oh so Peyton and Rodgers can suck, but Schaub got crucified?

And BTW, the Pats still had better overall field position.

Go back and read. I never compared our field position to the patriots. I said we had pretty good starting position On a lot of possessions. What the he'll does that statement have to do with the patriots?

And I still don't understand why you are ok with being like two losing teams.

If your point was that even great qb's struggle...well duh...

But let's not act like this game was an aberration for schaub.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:19 PM
they won't play as much man as we do

BINGO. Exposing 3rd string, washed up ILBs to Tom Brady twice (in a month) to man coverage nearly every play of the game is assuring failure.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:23 PM
I'm not a Schaub fan. I only defend him, because the commentary on him is just way out of whack right now. But Peyton Manning & Aaron Rogers both lost this weekend, if those two QB who won Super Bowls & MVPs can lose in the divisional round, then losing in the divisional round does not mean that Schaub can't win a Super Bowl.

Their teams scored more points... If our defense or special teams would have scored, we'd have scored as much as their teams did.

Schaub didn't play as poorly as Manning did.

Manning and Rodgers have both shown the ability to play at an elite level for multiple games and in big games.

Schaub has done neither.

They may not have had great games this weekend but you and 76 making these comparisons is just silly.

No one here can say for absolute certainty that schaub definitely can't win. But using your brain and observing you can clearly see those two qb's give you a better chance to win than schaub.

If you had manning, and Rodgers and schaub to choose from to lead your team into the play offs who are you choosing?

The way you guys talk you make it sound lime a toss up.

Schaub would be last on everyones list out of the three and for good reason. Please stop bringing them up in defense if schaub because it's asinine.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 09:24 PM
Go back and read. I never compared our field position to the patriots. I said we had pretty good starting position On a lot of possessions. What the he'll does that statement have to do with the patriots?

And I still don't understand why you are ok with being like two losing teams.

If your point was that even great qb's struggle...well duh...

But let's not act like this game was an aberration for schaub.

This is quite a normal game for Schaub if you ask me.

I never expect him to carry the team.
I expect the defense to play better and that the running game is better.

It would have been nice if he had a better game, (wanting to have an upgrade over Schaub is besides the point) he did not lose the game by himself. Actually, I believe the D and the running game should be more to blame.

If you or anybody disagree, it's fine, but that's how I saw it.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:25 PM
if not for wade, schaubiak is at best an 8-8 team.. he either needs to leave or takeover. expose schaub for what he is. without a halfway decent defense we wont win the division..

First of all, they were 9-7 without Wade in 2009... Second, Wade is a good defensive coach and did a great thing for this organization, turning around the defense. However, as is with 90% of the coaches in the league, sometimes his limitations are exposed. The Patriots and Packers have done that again. He was unable to put the Texan defensive players in a position to be successful today... and last month... and on Monday night against Green Bay. Just stating the truth. I'm disappointed but not bitter. It was expected. The Texans were outclassed. I'm hopeful they come back stronger next year. This was the one matchup we couldn't win... and losing Cushing was insurmountable. With Kubiak/Phillips/Schaub leading the team, we will need some breaks to win the Superbowl... just like 29-30 other teams do each year.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 09:27 PM
Manning and Rodgers have both shown the ability to play at an elite level for multiple games and in big games.

Schaub has done neither.

They may not have had great games this weekend but you and 76 making these comparisons is just silly.

No one here can say for absolute certainty that schaub definitely can't win. But using your brain and observing you can clearly see those two qb's give you a better chance to win than schaub.

If you had manning, and Rodgers and schaub to choose from to lead your team into the play offs who are you choosing?

The way you guys talk you make it sound lime a toss up.

Schaub would be last on everyones list out of the three and for good reason. Please stop bringing them up in defense if schaub because it's asinine.

Seriously, it's like talking to a wall. We are supposed to not look at the way Schaub played the last 5 weeks, and accept him as a "good" QB because other great QBs lost this weekend?

Do y'all even watch the games? It's like talking to someone who just started watching football. This isn't rocket science, the problems are very clear for everyone with any football knowledge at all to see.

fiasco west
01-13-2013, 09:31 PM
First of all, they were 9-7 without Wade in 2009... Second, Wade is a good defensive coach and did a great thing for this organization, turning around the defense. However, as is with 90% of the coaches in the league, sometimes his limitations are exposed. The Patriots and Packers have done that again. He was unable to put the Texan defensive players in a position to be successful today... and last month... and on Monday night against Green Bay. Just stating the truth. I'm disappointed but not bitter. It was expected. The Texans were outclassed. I'm hopeful they come back stronger next year. This was the one matchup we couldn't win... and losing Cushing was insurmountable. With Kubiak/Phillips/Schaub leading the team, we will need some breaks to win the Superbowl... just like 29-30 other teams do each year.

I think Wade just needs more capable blitzers and guys that can get pressure.

The defense was amazing last year because it wasn't just Watt getting pressure but a ton of other guys.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:32 PM
Seriously, it's like talking to a wall. We are supposed to not look at the way Schaub played the last 5 weeks, and accept him as a "good" QB because other great QBs lost this weekend? Every game is different and every team requires a different and specific gameplan. You lean that early on watching NFL football and football in general.

Do y'all even watch the games? It's like talking to someone who just started watching football. This isn't rocket science, the problems are very clear for everyone with any football knowledge at all to see.

Blaming Schaub for not being Brady is silly. Schaub completed 34 passes for 350 yards and turned the ball over once. I'm under no illusion that he played great. However, he is not the reason why the Texans are done... unless you are blaming him because he isn't an all-time great.

The Third Man
01-13-2013, 09:33 PM
First of all, they were 9-7 without Wade in 2009... Second, Wade is a good defensive coach and did a great thing for this organization, turning around the defense. However, as is with 90% of the coaches in the league, sometimes his limitations are exposed. The Patriots and Packers have done that again. He was unable to put the Texan defensive players in a position to be successful today... and last month... and on Monday night against Green Bay. Just stating the truth. I'm disappointed but not bitter. It was expected. The Texans were outclassed. I'm hopeful they come back stronger next year. This was the one matchup we couldn't win... and losing Cushing was insurmountable. With Kubiak/Phillips/Schaub leading the team, we will need some breaks to win the Superbowl... just like 29-30 other teams do each year.

I agree. Also, in defense of Wade, maybe they don't have the personnel to implement a zone. They need to get those players and mix in some new packages. The off-season should be about finding legit big play options on offense and finding ways to slow down the passing game.

hradhak
01-13-2013, 09:34 PM
I think our problem here is that we ran up against a team that we match up very poorly against. Our offense is never going to explode with Schaub. We are going to have accept that for at least the next year as I don't see Schaub being replaced. We need to get better WRs and TEs. There's not much else that we can do without completely blowing up this team.

AJ-80
01-13-2013, 09:35 PM
Matt Schaub is a super bowl quarterback. He's not. If we had a better option out there, I would go for it. But there isn't. Who do you want, Yates? Keenum? Hope for a lucky late round wonder at QB? There is too much money with Shaub at the moment to do anything w/ him. The productive thing to do would be to draft a WR in round 1 and hope he turns out to be a great player. Robert Woods, maybe?

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 09:35 PM
Blaming Schaub for not being Brady is silly. Schaub completed 34 passes for 350 yards and turned the ball over once. I'm under no illusion that he played great. However, he is not the reason why the Texans are done... unless you are blaming him because he isn't an all-time great.

Who cares about passing yards? Your focusing on the wrong thing. Watch the football game and tell me if he made plays or not. That's what matters. Stats are what people who didn't watch the game or couldn't understand what they watched use to try to understand the game. Put the box score down and watch the damn game.

He doesn't need to be an all-time great. What kind of argument are you even making? Your saying that we shouldn't be worried about Schaub's play because only an all-time great could play better or make more plays? It makes no sense. Again, go watch the game again, you didn't understand what you were watching the first time around.

beerlover
01-13-2013, 09:35 PM
BINGO. Exposing 3rd string, washed up ILBs to Tom Brady twice (in a month) to man coverage nearly every play of the game is assuring failure.

funny or not so funny thing happened when Texans went smaller, taking ILB's out & replacing with db's Belichick went big & started pounding the ball inside. For every move there is a counter move, makes no difference. We missed our field general, that was Cushing who is equivalent to QB on this defense. In the NFL great players make great plays. I thought Watt played well along with Connor Barwin who got hung out to dry in the backfield instead of making a tkfl.

Texans were actually snake bit @ ILB position this year, they made due with stop gap & depth players. No amount of coaching or motivation could overcome that fact especially facing Tom Brady who has a knack for picking on weakness.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:35 PM
I think Wade just needs more capable blitzers and guys that can get pressure.

The defense was amazing last year because it wasn't just Watt getting pressure but a ton of other guys.

They also avoided great QBs last year... Remember the Carolina game? The pressure was there most of the day (quickly) but the defense was manipulated out of position and confused anytime the Patriots needed a play on offense. The coaches put the players in a position to lose... Either they had to make a play, or they were going to get whooped badly for a big chunk of yards.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:37 PM
Blaming Schaub for not being Brady is silly. Schaub completed 34 passes for 350 yards and turned the ball over once. I'm under no illusion that he played great. However, he is not the reason why the Texans are done... unless you are blaming him because he isn't an all-time great.

Go back and read. The people comparing him to those guys are people defending him.

All time great would be nice, but I'd settle for a kaepernick or Russell Wilson type of player. Someone who put pressure on defenses all game long.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:43 PM
Who cares about passing yards? Your focusing on the wrong thing. Watch the football game and tell me if he made plays or not. That's what matters. Stats are what people who didn't watch the game or couldn't understand what they watched use to try to understand the game. Put the box score down and watch the damn game.

He made a number of plays:

1. throw for a should-be TD to Casy in 1st quarter.
2. 3rd and long conversion to AJ for 17 yards on deep cross
3. TD to Posey
4. a number of good conversions to TEs and AJ in the middle of the field.

The Texans scored 28 points and it could've been more. Schaub only turned it over once... How on earth can he be primarily responsible for the loss? That's crazy and that is an unrealistic expectation that will seldom be met in your lifetime by any QB likely to wear a Texan uniform (regardless of the coach, GM, owner, etc...)

Again, you guys keep blaming Schaub for not being great. He's good. "Greatness" suggests that it is rare. Schaub was better today than Peyton was yesterday. He led his team to more points and took better care of the ball... I'm not saying Schaub is as good as Peyton, only trying to reason with people blaming him for the loss. NEW ENGLAND SCORED 41 POINTs!!! That's why we lost!

76Texan
01-13-2013, 09:46 PM
Who cares about passing yards? Your focusing on the wrong thing. Watch the football game and tell me if he made plays or not. That's what matters. Stats are what people who didn't watch the game or couldn't understand what they watched use to try to understand the game. Put the box score down and watch the damn game.

He doesn't need to be an all-time great. What kind of argument are you even making? Your saying that we shouldn't be worried about Schaub's play because only an all-time great could play better or make more plays? It makes no sense. Again, go watch the game again, you didn't understand what you were watching the first time around.

So what happened if Casey had made that catch for a TD?

Come one, Seminole, it wasn't like Brady didn't miss a few tbows himself.
In fact, most of the QBs in the play-offs had missed plenty of tbrows

The comparison with Peyton are even more valid, because those guys were supposed to carry their team, and not Schaub.

I don't understand why you don't take that point into serious considerations.

And again, you ought to remember that I'm one who has been looking for solution in upgrading the QB position the last couple of years, and that I had had two solid solutions offered in Kaepernick and Wilson; I am not a Schaub homer.

Premier
01-13-2013, 09:46 PM
Blaming Schaub for not being Brady is silly. Schaub completed 34 passes for 350 yards and turned the ball over once. I'm under no illusion that he played great. However, he is not the reason why the Texans are done... unless you are blaming him because he isn't an all-time great.

are you really using this stats to justify his performance.. he put up some yards after the game was well out of hand. when he had the opportunity to keep the texans in the game, he was fumbling off his leg and threw a pick. the first 13 points we had , schaub had little to do with those.. 2 good returns by manning, foster beasting for the TD, and graham converting on a FG he rarely makes..

miss me with the stats, i dont car ewhat schaub did after the game was over 38-13, schaub did what schaub does, compile meaningless stats that dont impact a game..

i believe we had the 13th rankesed defense in 2009, and thankfully the pats laid over after welker went down so we could finally have a winning season.. the 3 years before that 8-8.. maybe you should set the bar higher..

GP
01-13-2013, 09:47 PM
Go back and read. The people comparing him to those guys are people defending him.

All time great would be nice, but I'd settle for a kaepernick or Russell Wilson type of player. Someone who put pressure on defenses all game long.

Someone who, when the pocket collapses or the play breaks down, you know they can go out and at least SERIOUSLY attempt to make something happen.

The most embarrassing play of today was when Matt tried to do what looked like a designed QB draw. Or not? Or something. But he was already going fetal as he took his first few steps forward. Was that an attempted dive? I dunno. But it looked really SAD.

Like one of those 44-year old QBs who sign on with a team to play one more time for old times' sake. They're hobbling around out there. Like Namath with the Rams. No chance whatsoever. But they try.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 09:48 PM
He made a number of plays:

1. throw for a should-be TD to Casy in 1st quarter.
2. 3rd and long conversion to AJ for 17 yards on deep cross
3. TD to Posey
4. a number of good conversions to TEs and AJ in the middle of the field.

The Texans scored 28 points and it could've been more. Schaub only turned it over once... How on earth can he be primarily responsible for the loss? That's crazy and that is an unrealistic expectation that will seldom be met in your lifetime by any QB likely to wear a Texan uniform (regardless of the coach, GM, owner, etc...)

Again, you guys keep blaming Schaub for not being great. He's good. "Greatness" suggests that it is rare. Schaub was better today than Peyton was yesterday. He led his team to more points and took better care of the ball... I'm not saying Schaub is as good as Peyton, only trying to reason with people blaming him for the loss. NEW ENGLAND SCORED 41 POINTs!!! That's why we lost!


My god, it's painful arguing with you. Read post #1. It states that the problem was both Schaub and Wade. So let's go ahead and clear that up as it should have even in post number 1. Learn to read, then respond.

You point out Schaub's throw to posey, the game is over at that point and NE is playing bend but don't break which is how we got down the field so quickly. If you hadn't realized that the game was over and that NE has now changed the way they are playin defense, your beyond talking to. You just don't get it or football. Again, it's simple football knowledge. This is not rocket science. The QBs need to make plays as the game is still in hand. When you need a momentum swing or need to take control of the game, it's on the QB. Always will be.

Now your comparing how many points Peyton scored vs Schaub in a different game against a different opponent. That is incredibly stupid. Sorry to say, but the best word to describe that is stupid.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:48 PM
Go back and read. The people comparing him to those guys are people defending him.

All time great would be nice, but I'd settle for a kaepernick or Russell Wilson type of player. Someone who put pressure on defenses all game long.

Wilson? You mean the guy that trailed the entire game before throwing for 350 yards and leading his team to 28 points and a loss?.. Yeah, that would be nice. Oh wait, that's exactly what Schaub did today.

Wilson and Kaepernick played great. They are exciting young players. And, I'd love the Texans to identify a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round of their caliber in the draft. Nothing is preventing that from happening, other than the fact that it's hard to find those guys. By the way, both offensive lines (Seattle and San Fran) are playing light years better than the Texan oline this season. How about Flacco? Do you want him? Does anyone honestly believe that Flacco played better than Schaub? Flacco has been to how many playoffs? How many Superbowls have the Ravens reached with him? Hmmm.

Name the QB you want and how to get him. I'm interested. I'd love a Russell Wilson clone!

hradhak
01-13-2013, 09:49 PM
NEW ENGLAND SCORED 41 POINTs!!! That's why we lost!

This. Few teams win games when they give up 41 points. Schaub is not blameless, but how many drops did he have also? Casey? Foster had a drop that would have extended a drive.

Our defense has been good to great against teams without stellar QBs. Our defense has been terrible against great QBs. That needs to change if we are going to win next season.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 09:50 PM
Go back and read. The people comparing him to those guys are people defending him.

All time great would be nice, but I'd settle for a kaepernick or Russell Wilson type of player. Someone who put pressure on defenses all game long.

See right there, Rey.

I do not talk after the fact.
I had called on these two guys during draft time.
I was never a blind homer.

AJ-80
01-13-2013, 09:51 PM
Is it a ridiculous idea to bring in Michael Vick and just see how he fits in our offense? Think of him coming off play action, it would add an entire new dimension.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:52 PM
My god, it's painful arguing with you. Read post #1. It states that the problem was both Schaub and Wade. So let's go ahead and clear that up as it should have even in post number 1. Lean to read, then respond.

You point out Schaub's throw to posey, the game is over at that point and NE is playing bend but don't break which is how we got down the field so quickly. If you hadn't realized that the game was over and that NE has now changed the way they are playin defense, your beyond talking to. You just don't get it or football. Again, it's simple football knowledge. This is not rocket science.

Now your comparing how many points Peyton scored vs Schaub in a different game against a different opponent. That is incredibly stupid. Sorry to say, but the best word to describe that is stupid.


So, you are arguing that, because New England was playing "bend but not break defense", that made it easier for Schaub to throw a bomb down the deep right sideline? Perhaps you don't understand the phrase "bend but don't break"?

In case you didn't realize, I have not replied to post #1 but to subsequent posts that are shifting more blame to Schaub and excusing Wade's failure today.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:52 PM
is it a ridiculous idea to bring in michael vick and just see how he fits in our offense? Think of him coming off play action, it would add an entire new dimension.

puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Wilson? You mean the guy that trailed the entire game before throwing for 350 yards and leading his team to 28 points and a loss?.. Yeah, that would be nice. Oh wait, that's exactly what Schaub did today.

Now you're just saying anything to fit your argument.

But let me step into your fantasy land where schaub actually led his team to all those td's and took the lead late in the with seconds remaining.

We're talking about a rookie and a second year player getting his first meaningful action.

Yeah, I want the guys with room to improve, not the multi year vet that's being compared to those guys.

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 09:55 PM
Is it a ridiculous idea to bring in Michael Vick and just see how he fits in our offense? Think of him coming off play action, it would add an entire new dimension.

no but at that same time i think we're still in this same situation, a loss in the playoffs.

vick is a terrible passer who is a turnover machine and always hurt. he'll make a player here and there but also make game losing plays at the worst times as well.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:57 PM
See right there, Rey.

I do not talk after the fact.
I had called on these two guys during draft time.
I was never a blind homer.

And I'll call it like I see it and if you advocated us picking those guys then you get big time props from me. College qb's haven't even been on my radar until this year, so I missed the boat on those guys.

Props to you for seeing their talent and identifying that we could have/should have picked one.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 09:58 PM
Now you're just saying anything to fit your argument.

But let me step into your fantasy land where schaub actually led his team to all those td's and took the lead late in the with seconds remaining.

We're talking about a rookie and a second year player getting his first meaningful action.

Yeah, I want the guys with room to improve, not the multi year vet that's being compared to those guys.

What's your point? Are they available for trade? If not, who are the QBs in this year's draft that can be acquired in the 2nd or 3rd round and be quickly developed into that kind of player? I'm all for it!

GP
01-13-2013, 09:58 PM
Wade was without Cushing the majority of this season, sort of like how Gary was without Schaub last season.

Wade had to pull Manning down lower into the box to support the run defense because of multiple LBs getting hurt and I.R.'d. Left and right, we lost the middle of our LB line.

I don't see how Wade should be put into this thread title.

The two years we win the AFC South and get to the divisional round of the playoffs....Wade Phillips was here. Before that, NOTHING but rancid dog poop season in and season out for this team.

Not advocating him for HC, not by a mile, but come on...he's done more in two years than Gary did the previous years.

TexansSeminole
01-13-2013, 09:59 PM
So, you are arguing that, because New England was playing "bend but not break defense", that made it easier for Schaub to throw a bomb down the deep right sideline? Perhaps you don't understand the phrase "bend but don't break"?

In case you didn't realize, I have not replied to post #1 but to subsequent posts that are shifting more blame to Schaub and excusing Wade's failure today.

Look at the play by play. We returned the kick 69 yards and Schaub made one good play when the game was out of hand. I would hardly call a 25-30 yard pass a bomb. After that, NE is in full out bend but don't break and Schaub dinks and dunks downfield.

You should also read all posts before replying or you end up looking like you can't read.

GP
01-13-2013, 10:03 PM
What's your point? Are they available for trade? If not, who are the QBs in this year's draft that can be acquired in the 2nd or 3rd round and be quickly developed into that kind of player? I'm all for it!

Oh god.

The ever popular "Name a guy! Who would YOU pick? Huh? HUH?"

OK. I'll take Tyler Wilson, University of Arkansas, please. And I'll package Ben Tate and my late first rounder to get him IF he's slated to go round 1.

The. End.

Because Matt Schaub is not the guy. He was a good stop-gap, a place holder for the next guy.

And maybe a guy like Tyler Wilson is a bust. But ****, who cares. Just give me something young and mobile. YOUTH. Athleticism. And no, not every mobile QB scores a -123 on the Wunderlich like Vince Young did...so it's not like a concrete-footed Schaub is better than taking a chance on a younger guy who can freaking move around a little in and out of the pocket.

He even wears #8, so it's tailor made for us.

But come on, now. As if Kubiak would make such a move. He wouldn't. So all this talk is for nothing. Rey, nor I, nor anybody has to give you a "name" because we'd DO IT. NOW.

Pantherstang84
01-13-2013, 10:07 PM
Oh god.

The ever popular "Name a guy! Who would YOU pick? Huh? HUH?"

OK. I'll take Tyler Wilson, University of Arkansas, please. And I'll package Ben Tate and my late first rounder to get him IF he's slated to go round 1.

The. End.

Because Matt Schaub is not the guy. He was a good stop-gap, a place holder for the next guy.

And maybe a guy like Tyler Wilson is a bust. But ****, who cares. Just give me something young and mobile. YOUTH. Athleticism. And no, not every mobile QB scores a -123 on the Wunderlich like Vince Young did...so it's not like a concrete-footed Schaub is better than taking a chance on a younger guy who can freaking move around a little in and out of the pocket.

He even wears #8, so it's tailor made for us.

But come on, now. As if Kubiak would make such a move. He wouldn't. So all this talk is for nothing. Rey, nor I, nor anybody has to give you a "name" because we'd DO IT. NOW.

I'm not sure I want the next Texans QB wearing #8. There is some stink on that number.

Rey
01-13-2013, 10:10 PM
What's your point? Are they available for trade? If not, who are the QBs in this year's draft that can be acquired in the 2nd or 3rd round and be quickly developed into that kind of player? I'm all for it!

My point is that if you don't look, you can't find them.

Visit the mock draft forum and youll see several suggestions.

I even created a mock there with us taking dysert in the second round.

AJ-80
01-13-2013, 10:14 PM
You guys have to be insane if you think the majority of the Texans passing woes are on Shaub. His 2nd best receiver is Kevin Walter. KEVIN WALTER. Today, Arian drops a first down, Casey drops a touchdown, and everyone else but Andre have footballs sailing through their hands. Then Kubiak as usual has no balls when it comes to calling plays so we end up getting 3-5 yards on 3rd and 10 multiple times. All in all, we need weapons on offense. Secondaries are eating us up because we have no one besides AJ to make plays.

Rey
01-13-2013, 10:20 PM
Schaubs targets aren't terrible. Just another deflection by schaub apologist.

AMartin56
01-13-2013, 10:30 PM
Fun drinking game...watch the other playoff teams and take a drink every time their QB makes a throw that Schaub can't make.

It won't just be the Mannings, Bradys and Rogers of the world getting you drunk. Athletic QBs like Wilson and Kapernick that can also win games with their feet are putting balls with more zip into tighter windows than Schaub can despite the experience gap.

Lucky
01-13-2013, 10:41 PM
Is it a ridiculous idea to bring in Michael Vick and just see how he fits in our offense? Think of him coming off play action, it would add an entire new dimension.
No, it's not. Vick played great in 2010. On the right team, he's probably got another good year in him.

But the real question is, would the Texans sign Vick? You know the answer to that.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 10:52 PM
I like Wade. His defenses get burned against elite QBs but he completely turned our defense around last year and he deserves another year or two.

Schaub has been sucking lately. I don't care how good a team is, you can't have a physical weakling at the most important position. I can only imagine what our team would look like with a big physical threat right there that can fire a long ball and run too. I don't think Schaub is a good leader. He's just an unathletic bald fart who inspires absolutely no passion into the other players. If there's a good chance to get another QB this year then we should definitely jump on it. If not, give him ONE more year.

Schaub looked good when we put some receivers on the field. It should be obvious that our problem was that we waited too long to put those receivers on the field. We were stymied most of the first half & when we put those receivers on the field, we scored twice in like 4 minutes or something.

That worked, the other stuff didn't.

We should have started the second half the same way, but didn't. We didn't put the receivers back out until middle to late 4th qtr.

The problem wasn't the guy behind center, it was the guy behind the denny's menu. & he ain't going nowhere.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 11:18 PM
Just awful awful rationale in this thread...

AJ-80
01-13-2013, 11:28 PM
Schaubs targets aren't terrible. Just another deflection by schaub apologist.
Matt Shaub's targets aren't terrible? Am I reading that correctly? Andre Johnson. Then who???

Norg
01-14-2013, 12:31 AM
right now i feel like

Wade is badass Hes the one who drafted JJ WATT

Schaub is who he is OLD n slow a Good game manger can destory Scrub teams but when he takes on the elite Dees forget about it

ANd kubes my gwad this game he dissapointed me u might has well put kubes and scahub in the same boat since Schaub is litteraly the robtic arm of kubes

midway
01-14-2013, 12:41 AM
Fun drinking game...watch the other playoff teams and take a drink every time their QB makes a throw that Schaub can't make.

It won't just be the Mannings, Bradys and Rogers of the world getting you drunk. Athletic QBs like Wilson and Kapernick that can also win games with their feet are putting balls with more zip into tighter windows than Schaub can despite the experience gap.

Dude, I don't want alcohol poisoning.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 04:40 PM
Ya, you won't see Ray Lewis or Ellerbe out wide against Shane Vareen ala Barrett Ruud and Bradie James. How Wade thought that would work is beyond me.

Most likely Wade did not think it would work.

Someone on the Pats sideline, or maybe Brady, noticed in particular situations the Texans will man up across the board. More than likely they gambled, with our strong tendencies, they called that play. That's part of the Patriots package. Almost predictable in itself. You'll see it next week if they think the Ravens are going to go man across the board.

Some defenses have the flexibility to change on the fly, but most do not. In that situation, anyone try to change their defense & Brady will have the ball snapped.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 05:55 PM
Manning and Rodgers have both shown the ability to play at an elite level for multiple games and in big games.

Schaub has done neither.

They may not have had great games this weekend but you and 76 making these comparisons is just silly.

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not comparing Schaub to Manning & Rogers. My point should have been clear, losing in the divisional round does not mean Matt has reached his ceiling.

No one here can say for absolute certainty that schaub definitely can't win.

That is exactly what they are saying. We can't win with Schaub when it counts.


The way you guys talk you make it sound lime a toss up.

Schaub would be last on everyones list out of the three and for good reason. Please stop bringing them up in defense if schaub because it's asinine.

Not at all. I do not like Schaub.


My objection to the criticism Matt is getting, is that As a player, he's shown enough snap & ability to play this game at a high level despite his limitations. & my eyeball does not see anything wrong with his foot or his ability to plant, run, or anything other than the issues his clumsy ass has always had.

I don't think he's a winner. But it has nothing to do with his physical limitations. There are ways around them, he's on a short list of people who've thrown for as many yards as he has while maintaining a 90+ QBR.

If we're going to argue a reason to get another QB, the argument should be about "it" as hard as it is to make that argument. His weak arm isn't anything new. His lack of mobility isn't anything new. Kubiak new all that before they extended him.

Kubiak don't trust Schaub..... preposterous. There's something else going on & we just don't know what it is.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 06:05 PM
Who cares about passing yards? Your focusing on the wrong thing. Watch the football game and tell me if he made plays or not. That's what matters. Stats are what people who didn't watch the game or couldn't understand what they watched use to try to understand the game. Put the box score down and watch the damn game.


When he was put into a position to succeed, yes, he made the plays that needed to be made. The TD pass to Casey couldn't have been better. The TD pass to Posey couldn't have been better. When we saw 3 WRs on the field, we were able to move the ball with relative ease.

When he was in his 2 TE sets, he struggled. Routes took too long to develop, pass protection didn't hold up, & he had to resort to doing things we know he can't do..

We should have been in 3+ receiver sets from that 2 minute drill in the second half on.

I can understand Kubiak's apprehension to scoring too quick, but we had to score first.

dalemurphy
01-16-2013, 09:38 PM
Matt Shaub's targets aren't terrible? Am I reading that correctly? Andre Johnson. Then who???

His targets are fine. However, there is very little to stretch the defense. Even AJ is not the deep threat or breakaway threat he once was. We need a WR with some serious speed and playmaking potential. Or, at least, an athletic tight end that can run away from LBs and most safeties (there are a couple, by the way, forecast to go late in the 1st round in some mocks).

Texecutioner
01-16-2013, 09:42 PM
First of all, Schaub has been exposed. He can't consistently make plays or even be expected to start a game on point. He is holding this offense back tremendously with his physical limitations and honestly his decision making.

Wade Phillips needs to adapt or get fired. Welker and Hernandez killed man coverage in the regular season matchup and what do we do today, more man coverage. News flash Wade, you can't use that much man coverage against the Pats. It was clear in the regular season and its even clearer now. What's up with us putting an ILB out on running backs when they line up out wide as receivers? They recognize it and get huge plays every single time. Wade did a horrible job preparing for this game and then adjusting to the game as it went on. Our secondary is not comprised of bad players, we should have been able to hold them to alot less in the passing game.

We need to take a hard look at both Schaub and Wade in the offseason.

Amazing you mention both of these guys as being "exposed", but make no mention of Gary Kubiak?? Lol!

Dude was exposed many years ago, but we only need to be looking at Schaub and Wade??

Wade is solid. Schaub sucks. Niners 41 pats 34. Ravens 38 broncos 35. You blame their DCs for the point ts t. this league you gotta score points on offense

Tell that to all of the Steelers teams that went to 3 SB's these last 10 years and all of those Ravens teams that have gone to the post season in the last 12 years or so. Add the Texans to that list who made the playoffs last season with TJ Yates doing almost nothing at all for the offense. Add the Bears to that list who almost won a SB with straight defense. Add the Giants to that list who won a SB mainly because of a dominant Dline.

Sure, you need to score points, but you also need to limit points. There have been tons of juggernut offenses in this league who never did squat when they hit the post season.

You need a balanced team, but most of all you need a great QB that can make plays and a great defense that can make plays and make key stops when it counts.

Texecutioner
01-16-2013, 09:50 PM
OD, Walter, Casey, Foster, Graham, Posey, the other teams LB's ...

OD and Foster are the only guys on that list.

The rest are average players. Lol at the fact that you actually added Posey and Walter to that list. You made the guy's point who asked the question.

ObsiWan
01-18-2013, 07:17 PM
How many passes did welker drop?

None in the damned endzone.
:kubepalm:

ObsiWan
01-18-2013, 07:30 PM
He made a number of plays:

1. throw for a should-be TD to Casy in 1st quarter.
2. 3rd and long conversion to AJ for 17 yards on deep cross
3. TD to Posey
4. a number of good conversions to TEs and AJ in the middle of the field.

The Texans scored 28 points and it could've been more. Schaub only turned it over once... How on earth can he be primarily responsible for the loss? That's crazy and that is an unrealistic expectation that will seldom be met in your lifetime by any QB likely to wear a Texan uniform (regardless of the coach, GM, owner, etc...)

Again, you guys keep blaming Schaub for not being great. He's good. "Greatness" suggests that it is rare. Schaub was better today than Peyton was yesterday. He led his team to more points and took better care of the ball... I'm not saying Schaub is as good as Peyton, only trying to reason with people blaming him for the loss. NEW ENGLAND SCORED 41 POINTs!!! That's why we lost!

True. The Patriots have our number.

And that number is FORTY. Because Wade's defense gave up 40+ points. TWICE.

And the "eyeball test" says it could have been more.

Sorry, but this offense isn't built to win a shootout with the Bradys and Rodgers of the league. And I might add that Wade's defense is supposed to be built to keep those shootouts from happening in the first place.

thunderkyss
01-18-2013, 07:53 PM
And I might add that Wade's defense is supposed to be built to keep those shootouts from happening in the first place.

One of our Patsfans visitors found it funny when we suggested Wade was going to take away their run game & make them throw the ball.

That's like throwing Peter Rabbit in the briar patch, no?

ObsiWan
01-18-2013, 08:01 PM
One of our Patsfans visitors found it funny when we suggested Wade was going to take away their run game & make them throw the ball.

That's like throwing Peter Rabbit in the briar patch, no?

that's the absolute perfect analogy.

HJam72
01-19-2013, 07:40 AM
It seems what we try to do against the Pats is take away their punter by making them score all the time.

boom boom
01-19-2013, 07:59 AM
His targets are fine. However, there is very little to stretch the defense. Even AJ is not the deep threat or breakaway threat he once was. We need a WR with some serious speed and playmaking potential. Or, at least, an athletic tight end that can run away from LBs and most safeties (there are a couple, by the way, forecast to go late in the 1st round in some mocks).

dale like i said the other night i believe another receiver to stretch the field would really help this texans offense. even though like i said im a pats fan, you guys have great balance with foster running the football. most importantly keep in mind the texans dominated almost everyone in the nfl. the game they beat chicago they really showed how tough and physical they were and against new england if shaub and the offense can sustain long drives and keep brady off the field you guys will be right there at the end. i enjoy watching the texans play. besides my patrioits my second teami always root for is the houstan texans. you guys will be fine. you learned a ton this year about your football team and next year will dominate the afc south and if anyone has to go thru reliant stadium in the playoffs, look out because thats a tough place to play. i hoipe we dominate baltimore the way you guys did but unfortunately we dont have jj watt on defense and arian foster to hit the outside. take care brother

boom boom
01-19-2013, 08:03 AM
True. The Patriots have our number.

And that number is FORTY. Because Wade's defense gave up 40+ points. TWICE.

And the "eyeball test" says it could have been more.

Sorry, but this offense isn't built to win a shootout with the Bradys and Rodgers of the league. And I might add that Wade's defense is supposed to be built to keep those shootouts from happening in the first place.

hey congrats on a great year. even though im a pats fan i respect the texans and root for them. you guys are going to be a dominant football team for years to come. best of luck next year and enjoy your success because its only the beginning. jj watt, foster, johnson, manning, etc. the texans will be fine. enjoy the afc south division and i believe you guys will win that division for many years ahead. go texans

boom boom
01-19-2013, 08:06 AM
It seems what we try to do against the Pats is take away their punter by making them score all the time.

lol, thats hilarious, i wish you guys took away our kicker because we cant stop manning on special teams. congrats on a great year and best of luck next year. the texans will be right back in the thick of it. THERE CONTENDERS WHILE TEAMS LIKE THE COLTS AND BENGALS ARE PRETENDERS.