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View Full Version : Why is it on Schaub and not the D?


76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:00 PM
Watt high first round pick
Smith high paying FA
Barwin and Reed 2nd rd pick, with Barwin being a vet
Merci another 1st rounder.
Cody a high paying vet, for the position and the number of snaps he plays.
Mitchell is a second rounder (?)
Cushing a first rounder (so what if he's injured, it's not like the O is healthy.)
James and Dobbins both veterans that have been under Wade's system for many years; Sharpton a third round pick, Ruud a vet and also a day two pick I think.
Jackson a first round pick.
So was JJo, besides being a high paying vet.
Manning is another high paying vet.

What does Schaub have on the offensive side?

noxiousdog
01-11-2013, 04:04 PM
Huh? 3 probowl linemen, Arian Foster, and Andre Johnson.

What else does he need?

Realistically, it's on both. The offense should be judged on scoring more than 21 points (NE's average) and the defense limiting them to less than 35.

In game 1, they were equally bad.

EllisUnit
01-11-2013, 04:09 PM
I'd say because last time we played them the D got back to back to back 3 and out and the Offense got zero points out of those possesions. D can stop them all day but if the Offense don't put points on the board we lose.

TexansBlood
01-11-2013, 04:13 PM
:wadepalm:

gary
01-11-2013, 04:14 PM
It is on the staff.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:17 PM
Seriously?

One of the best LT in the game as well as one of the top centers.

One of the top three receivers in the game.

One of the top three RB in the game, arguably the best. As well as two very good back-ups.

Great TE core led by one of the best in the game.

FB/TE hybrid with some of the best hands I have seen in the NFL.

Walters would be Welker if he were in NE ... same type of player.

Speedster in K-Mart who I think is underutilized, as well as decent receivers in Posey and Jean who, if they had a better QB throwing to them, may already be shining in the league. That why I hope we dont draft another WR with a high pick until we get rid of Schaub. He isnt doing anything to help develop the youngsters.

Matt has everything he needs ... he is the problem.
Lol; you try to sell some of these players to the Pats fans and they wouldn't any.

They will laugh at you with the thought of OD over Gronk, and Graham over Hernandez, Walter over Welker.
The Pats offensive line is better than the Texans this year.
The 3 guys they have at RB at also very potent.

At the end of the day though, just count the numbers on either side of the ball.
Of course, we have good players on the O, too; but we are supposed to have more on the D side.

Hervoyel
01-11-2013, 04:19 PM
It's on the entire team. I've been harping on Schaub as much as anyone since the offense went fetal but Sunday it's on all of them. They either show up and make a game of it (which they may or may not win) or they roll over and spread em' again.

If that happens it happens.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:22 PM
I'd say because last time we played them the D got back to back to back 3 and out and the Offense got zero points out of those possesions. D can stop them all day but if the Offense don't put points on the board we lose.

The D was supposed to continue their domination this year.
Put them on the murderous list.

Can you remember how this D was supposed to claim the number one spot on the NFL this year?

Wasn't that what you counted on for the Texans to make it to the SB before the season started?

utahmark
01-11-2013, 04:23 PM
Seriously?

One of the best LT in the game as well as one of the top centers.

One of the top three receivers in the game.

One of the top three RB in the game, arguably the best. As well as two very good back-ups.

Great TE core led by one of the best in the game.

FB/TE hybrid with some of the best hands I have seen in the NFL.

Walters would be Welker if he were in NE ... same type of player.
Speedster in K-Mart who I think is underutilized, as well as decent receivers in Posey and Jean who, if they had a better QB throwing to them, may already be shining in the league. That why I hope we dont draft another WR with a high pick until we get rid of Schaub. He isnt doing anything to help develop the youngsters.

Matt has everything he needs ... he is the problem.

c'mon dude!

gary
01-11-2013, 04:24 PM
What does shake things up mean in some eyes?

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:26 PM
Everyone who posts in this thread, I'd like for you to consider the position you took before the season.

What did you expect to get for the Texans to go to the SB?

Did you count on Holliday?
Did you count on ST play sucktitude?
Did you count on a dominant defense?

Did you get any of that?

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:28 PM
I repeat ... if Kevin had Tom Brady throwing to him he would be doing the same things as Wes. They are the same type of player. Wes has just had the advantage of one of the best of all time getting him the ball.

Same type of player?

Never mind, you're out of my league.
Sorry, I can't keep up with you.

dtran04
01-11-2013, 04:28 PM
Only thing similar about Kevin Walter and Wes Welker is their skin color.

Keyshawn Martin is the only one close to Wes Welker but he's not nearly as quick/explosive.

Rey
01-11-2013, 04:28 PM
As good as the giants defense was against Brady, they win neither Superbowl without clutch throws by Eli.

Ravens defense played the pats really well last year. Flacco's good game is what had them in position to win a game they should have won.

Schaub is going to have to make some plays. That's just life.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:31 PM
As good as the giants defense was against Brady, they win neither Superbowl without clutch throws by Eli.

This should go under the other thread. :)

utahmark
01-11-2013, 04:32 PM
I repeat ... if Kevin had Tom Brady throwing to him he would be doing the same things as Wes. They are the same type of player. Wes has just had the advantage of one of the best of all time getting him the ball.

I repeat.... C'mon dude! When was the last time you ever saw Kevin Walter return a punt? He does'nt have the skill set so you never will. Wes is a shifty quick hard to cover type player. Walter is a slower larger blocker that can catch. If he was a little bigger he would be an awesome tight end.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:43 PM
I repeat.... C'mon dude! When was the last time you ever saw Kevin Walter return a punt? He does'nt have the skill set so you never will. Wes is a shifty quick hard to cover type player. Walter is a slower larger blocker that can catch. If he was a little bigger he would be an awesome tight end.

On top of that, the point is the Texans are built to win games with heavy contribution by the D.

Brady might be drafted low due to his miserable numbers at the combine, but he since has been rewarded substantially financial-wise when he proved that you need more than athleticism to be one of the all-time great QB.

The Texans pay Schaub at the average level in the league.
The team is not built to have him carry the load.
It is built to split the load, more of it is supposed to be on the defensive side.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 04:50 PM
And don't forget that Foster is an UDFA that we gave a hefty contract to as we count on him to bear a good portion of the load offensively.

dc_txtech
01-11-2013, 04:50 PM
I repeat ... if Kevin had Tom Brady throwing to him he would be doing the same things as Wes. They are the same type of player. Wes has just had the advantage of one of the best of all time getting him the ball.

Whelp, that's now the dumbest thing I've read all day.

dc_txtech
01-11-2013, 04:53 PM
Of course I wasn't talking about punt returns.

I think Kevin is a shifty smaller type that can run good routes, make good cuts. Just because he works out doesn't make him a "slow TE type". I don't see that in him. I also think he has good hands and can be a great possession receiver for the right QB. Maybe I see more positives from him than others, and will admit that for the last two years his production has slowed, but for a couple of years when Matt first arrived he was a key contributor.

The hits just keep rolling! 6-3 220 pound Kevin Walter is a shifty smaller type.
He's barely 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier than Wes!

Vinny
01-11-2013, 04:57 PM
The hits just keep rolling! 6-3 220 pound Kevin Walter is a shifty smaller type.
He's barely 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier than Wes!
ck thinks the Corhuskers big red N on the helmet stands for Nowledge.

dc_txtech
01-11-2013, 04:57 PM
Didn't realize he was that tall .... doesn't seem like it on the field. The weight doesn't surprise me because he obviously lifts and muscle weight is greater.

Yeah, he's about the same size as Andre Johnson.

gary
01-11-2013, 04:58 PM
It does not matter if a player goes to another team and make someone better. In sports two players to make each other better.

Vinny
01-11-2013, 05:01 PM
Cool, at least the mods that allow and seem to encourage personal attacks also participate in them. Good job! Glad to know someone like you is in a position of authority.
go cry a river....Walters a shifty smaller type? You even watch the games?

Double Barrel
01-11-2013, 05:05 PM
go cry a river....Walters a shifty smaller type? You even watch the games?

5'9" , 6'3" , it's all the same!

:ohsnap:

Vinny
01-11-2013, 05:09 PM
I have watched a few ...

Look, I was just giving an opinion. Not asking for universal agreement.

Not attacking anyone personally either because they disagree.

Have a great evening.you deserve a poke for that tidbit of not knowing what you are talking about. Walter being small and shifty isn't an opinion unless you think that Wes Welker is a tall physical wr who is a hell of a blocker....in that case I'll cut you some slack.

Double Barrel
01-11-2013, 05:09 PM
Why is it on Schaub and not the D?

Schaub has not thrown a TD pass in the past 23 quarters.

Why wouldn't it be on Schaub should be the question. Very few teams win a Super Bowl with subpar QB play. Dude is going to have to step up if this team is going to have a chance.

Throwing a pick 6 to a Patriots team won't do the trick.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:27 PM
Schaub has not thrown a TD pass in the past 23 quarters.

Why wouldn't it be on Schaub should be the question. Very few teams win a Super Bowl with subpar QB play. Dude is going to have to step up if this team is going to have a chance.

Throwing a pick 6 to a Patriots team won't do the trick.

Agree! throwing a pick in a play-off game is not good.
Ask Brady when he threw one against the Jets and 3 times against the Chargers.

Thorn
01-11-2013, 05:27 PM
Schaub, for whatever reason, has not been playing as good as he used to. He is just not the same QB that we saw making all those 4th qtr comebacks a few years ago. He just isn't.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:36 PM
Brady had thrown for 3 INTs 3 times, 2 INTs twice, and one Int 7 times in the play-offs.

(Somebody double check it please).

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:41 PM
Schaub, for whatever reason, has not been playing as good as he used to. He is just not the same QB that we saw making all those 4th qtr comebacks a few years ago. He just isn't.

But we did come back twice this year, Thorn.

And Schaub can't help in that regard when we had leads in many other games.
On the one hand, you'd rather for us to have a lead throughout, on the other hand, you want us to come back in the 4th, too.

Can't do both, Thorn. :)

C Madd
01-11-2013, 05:42 PM
Brady had thrown for 3 INTs 3 times, 2 INTs twice, and one Int 7 times in the play-offs.

(Somebody double check it please).

Confirmed.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:43 PM
There are a couple of great QBs in the AFC, neither can bring their team to a better record than 12-4 this year.

Why didn't they make those come-back you're longing for Schaub to do?

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:44 PM
Confirmed.

Thank you my good man. :)

Double Barrel
01-11-2013, 05:45 PM
Agree! throwing a pick in a play-off game is not good.
Ask Brady when he threw one against the Jets and 3 times against the Chargers.

Well nobody is perfect.

Brady's track record speaks for itself. Dude has had a HoF career...and it's still being written.

Brady gets the benefit of the doubt because he's earned it at this point.

Schaub...not so much. And I like Schaub and hope he plays clutch on Sunday. I'm not into predicting performances, so I'm just hoping for the best.

And that's the difference. With QBs like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, you EXPECT greatness. With a QB like Schaub, you just HOPE.

I do agree, though, that defense needs to step up big time this Sunday if the Texans are to have even a chance at victory. All facets of the team need to play above and beyond themselves to make that happen.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 05:50 PM
Well nobody is perfect.

Brady's track record speaks for itself. Dude has had a HoF career...and it's still being written.

Brady gets the benefit of the doubt because he's earned it at this point.

Schaub...not so much. And I like Schaub and hope he plays clutch on Sunday. I'm not into predicting performances, so I'm just hoping for the best.

And that's the difference. With QBs like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, you EXPECT greatness. With a QB like Schaub, you just HOPE.

I do agree, though, that defense needs to step up big time this Sunday if the Texans are to have even a chance at victory. All facets of the team need to play above and beyond themselves to make that happen.

And that's how this team is built, supposedly.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 06:00 PM
And it's not like Brady was throwing a ton of picks in the play-offs early in his career either.

Lucky
01-11-2013, 06:39 PM
Your apologies for Schaub are laughable. Schaub carries the biggest cap hit (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/) on this team. He is the QB. He is playing like crap. At least compared to his play earlier in the year and previous seasons. Plain and simple, Matt Schaub must play better for the Texans to advance in the playoffs.

Textan
01-11-2013, 06:55 PM
On top of that, the point is the Texans are built to win games with heavy contribution by the D.

Brady might be drafted low due to his miserable numbers at the combine, but he since has been rewarded substantially financial-wise when he proved that you need more than athleticism to be one of the all-time great QB.

The Texans pay Schaub at the average level in the league.
The team is not built to have him carry the load.
It is built to split the load, more of it is supposed to be on the defensive side.

I know we're stuck with Schaub, but wouldn't the Texans benefit immensely from an elite type QB?
Yes, Schaub's good at the play action.

Textan
01-11-2013, 07:02 PM
Ha, just noticed the title of this thread. Bottom line is Schaub has been horrible for the last month or so, since the NE game. When NFL network even notices he's only thrown 1 TD for numerous quarters, yes he's not playing well at all. Not sure how you equates Schaubs crappy performance having anything to do with the defense's play?

ATXtexanfan
01-11-2013, 07:05 PM
41-34. San frans elite D gave up 34 points to Brady. However their Offense scored 41 so they won. It's on schaub cause he's gotta get points on the board.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 07:36 PM
I know we're stuck with Schaub, but wouldn't the Texans benefit immensely from an elite type QB?
Yes, Schaub's good at the play action.

You bring in a guy like Eli then you basically lose OD and maybe Walter too with no replacement because you don't have the money.

I don't recall the exact number, but it should be close to that (when you take into consideration salary, bonus, cap hit and future cap hit , etc. - the whole enchilada).

klockWork
01-11-2013, 07:50 PM
When AJ was out with all those games last season Schaub passing production did not dropoff. Receivers like Posey, Martin, and Jean are begging to have big games. The only problem is Schaub has tunnel vision for Johnson. The sooner he realized that the sooner he can get back to playing topnotch. And because of that is where he failed. The weapons are there and that's why it's on Schaub.

Thorn
01-11-2013, 07:53 PM
But we did come back twice this year, Thorn.

And Schaub can't help in that regard when we had leads in many other games.
On the one hand, you'd rather for us to have a lead throughout, on the other hand, you want us to come back in the 4th, too.

Can't do both, Thorn. :)

Schaub, either because of something wrong with him or because of coaching decisions, is just not as good right now as he was earlier this season and previous seasons.

I don't what's wrong, I'm not a coach. I just know it when I see it. Hopefully whatever IS wrong is fixed this Sunday. I know Schaub is capable of leading the Texans to a super bowl, but he just hasn't been showing it lately.

PapaL
01-11-2013, 08:00 PM
Schaub, either because of something wrong with him or because of coaching decisions, is just not as good right now as he was earlier this season and previous seasons.

I don't what's wrong, I'm not a coach. I just know it when I see it. Hopefully whatever IS wrong is fixed this Sunday. I know Schaub is capable of leading the Texans to a super bowl, but he just hasn't been showing it lately.

QFT!

He is either injured or playing scared. Neither of which is good.

Perki-Perk
01-11-2013, 09:03 PM
Lol; you try to sell some of these players to the Pats fans and they wouldn't any.

They will laugh at you with the thought of OD over Gronk, and Graham over Hernandez, Walter over Welker.
The Pats offensive line is better than the Texans this year.
The 3 guys they have at RB at also very potent.

At the end of the day though, just count the numbers on either side of the ball.
Of course, we have good players on the O, too; but we are supposed to have more on the D side.

I don't think laughing at the guy is necessary. You put Tom Brady behind our Oline and almost our whole receiving corps is going to the pro bowl, but not playing because they're in the Super Bowl. Look at the circus catches Walter, Graham, OD, AJ and Casey make. When Brady is your QB, the circus doesn't come to town. On target darts into the hands of our would be elite receiving corps....If you think Noodle is anywhere close to Brady...I think delusional would be a good adjective to describe you.

Perki-Perk
01-11-2013, 09:06 PM
I know we're stuck with Schaub, but wouldn't the Texans benefit immensely from an elite type QB?
Yes, Schaub's good at the play action.

Our play action has been getting read like "Clifford the Big Red Dog" lately.

76Texan
01-11-2013, 09:37 PM
I don't think laughing at the guy is necessary. You put Tom Brady behind our Oline and almost our whole receiving corps is going to the pro bowl, but not playing because they're in the Super Bowl. Look at the circus catches Walter, Graham, OD, AJ and Casey make. When Brady is your QB, the circus doesn't come to town. On target darts into the hands of our would be elite receiving corps....If you think Noodle is anywhere close to Brady...I think delusional would be a good adjective to describe you.

You guys keep avoiding the questions.

1. What is the role of the D on this team?
2. What is the role of Schaub on this team?

If you want to point your fingers wherever, it's your choice.

Have fun at it.

patsfan13
01-11-2013, 09:55 PM
IMO it isn't fair to compare Schaub to Brady, there is a good chance that when Brady is done he will be hands down the GOAT of all time, I could even make a case that he is right now.

Schaub is a very good game manager QB he doesn't seem to be equipped to control the game like a Brady or Manning HOF qb type.

I would LOVE to see TFB throwing to Andre J. BTW.

Winning playoff games and getting to the SB requires IT to be on the Coaches, D, O, and ST's

CloakNNNdagger
01-11-2013, 10:09 PM
QFT!

He is either injured or playing scared. Neither of which is good.

When you are injured as QB and you know that you are limited in what you can do, it can easily lead to playing scared.

Surreal McCoy
01-11-2013, 10:16 PM
Your apologies for Schaub are laughable. Schaub carries the biggest cap hit (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/) on this team. He is the QB. He is playing like crap. At least compared to his play earlier in the year and previous seasons. Plain and simple, Matt Schaub must play better for the Texans to advance in the playoffs.

If there's ever been a reason to move him on, that's it right there. Mario was a huge cap hit and performed like Jared Crick. Can't have the same from Schaub. He simply has to justify being the highest paid player.

ChampionTexan
01-11-2013, 10:24 PM
Look, I was just giving an opinion. Not asking for universal agreement.

Not attacking anyone personally either because they disagree.



When you're talking about someone's height & weight, it's not called an opinion - it's called a guess.

And when someone points out you're guess was incorrect, it's not called disagreeing - it's called pointing out you were incorrect.

mussop
01-11-2013, 10:41 PM
Already been discussed. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96964&highlight=pass)


I see alot of people pointing fingers at Kubiak and the offense and rightfully so. But what about Philllips? Seems like everyone is making excuses for him. "Oh he has so little work with because of injuries" and "he has got this team to over achieve". BFD! All defenses go through that at some opint in a season. Thats where a great coordinator steps up shows why he is great.

Maybe it's just me but it sure seems like he's gone extra vanilla on his blitz packages. I'm not a big X's and O's guy but I can't remember the last time saw Phillips send one of our OLB's on loop around stunt to the inside. What happened to moving the weak side LB all over the place to put him in position to take advantage of miss matches and take advantage of his rush abilities. All he's done the second half of this year IMO is use the OLB's as edge setters or speed rushers around the outside on obvious passing plays. Where is the creativity we were promised?

I'm sorry but this defense has to get pressure on the QB to be successful. Phillips need to dial it up a notch or we are going to end up wasting this season no matter what the offense does.

Textan
01-11-2013, 11:03 PM
Our play action has been getting read like "Clifford the Big Red Dog" lately.

:lol:Can't deny that, but it did show some signs of having a heart beat last weekend.
No doubt Kubiak has to change our all too predictable offensive scheme. But, how do you change something that we must rely on, namely the run and what that sets up if its successful?
I just hope if in our first or second drives Kubiak recognizes certain schemes that may or may not have success.
How many run plays on the right side did we see Foster make against NE last time? Could have been the left, all I know is it wasn't working worth a damn, and it kept getting called.

Lucky
01-11-2013, 11:09 PM
You guys keep avoiding the questions.

1. What is the role of the D on this team?
2. What is the role of Schaub on this team?
1. To keep the opposing offense from scoring.
2. To lead the offense on scoring drives, preferably touchdowns.

Your attempted characterization of Matt Schaub as Trent Dilfer is absurd.

GP
01-11-2013, 11:22 PM
Schaub didn't play how many reg season games last year???

Wasn't he basically out the month of December during last season?

Is it possible that him not playing roughly the final 1/4th of the reg season in 2011 has made him somewhat shaky the final 1/4th of THIS season?

The way he reacted to the playoff win, too, it looked like 2,000 lbs. had been lifted off his shoulders.

I think the guy is either going to be that guy we saw when he out-slugged the Packers in Lambeau on a day when no Houston pro football team had any business playing on a the Frozen Tundra in Lambeau, or he's going to be that guy who cratered under the pressure in week 14 vs. the Patriots this season.

There will be no middle ground. Either he sucked it up just long enough, vs. the Bengals, to get that elusive playoff win (and so he figures he's good to go no matter what outcome happens)...or, he takes it to another level and totally blows every single person's mind.

Because right now, not a single person in the sports media believes that the best QB playing in Foxboro Sunday is Matt Schaub. The deck is stacked against him. And either he gets that **** flipped on its head and shoves a big middle finger into the face of the sports world...like Joe Namath did, or he doesn't.

In fact, I have never seen Namath play on TV. But I did watch a great NFL Films documentary on him about a week ago. Schaub just might be a QB who is a lot like Namath. Neither guy is really known for being mobile. Both guys are accurate and sort of lumbering around out there, and most people think Schaub can't beat Brady just like people thought Namath couldn't beat Unitas.

Strange things happen.

But I still think the Patriots win. And it won't matter if it's a blowout or a squeaker. A win is a win, and the Patriots have been doing this for over a decade now.

ChampionTexan
01-11-2013, 11:48 PM
Schaub didn't play how many reg season games last year???

Wasn't he basically out the month of December during last season?

Is it possible that him not playing roughly the final 1/4th of the reg season in 2011 has made him somewhat shaky the final 1/4th of THIS season?

The way he reacted to the playoff win, too, it looked like 2,000 lbs. had been lifted off his shoulders.

I think the guy is either going to be that guy we saw when he out-slugged the Packers in Lambeau on a day when no Houston pro football team had any business playing on a the Frozen Tundra in Lambeau, or he's going to be that guy who cratered under the pressure in week 14 vs. the Patriots this season.

There will be no middle ground. Either he sucked it up just long enough, vs. the Bengals, to get that elusive playoff win (and so he figures he's good to go no matter what outcome happens)...or, he takes it to another level and totally blows every single person's mind.

Because right now, not a single person in the sports media believes that the best QB playing in Foxboro Sunday is Matt Schaub. The deck is stacked against him. And either he gets that **** flipped on its head and shoves a big middle finger into the face of the sports world...like Joe Namath did, or he doesn't.

In fact, I have never seen Namath play on TV. But I did watch a great NFL Films documentary on him about a week ago. Schaub just might be a QB who is a lot like Namath. Neither guy is really known for being mobile. Both guys are accurate and sort of lumbering around out there, and most people think Schaub can't beat Brady just like people thought Namath couldn't beat Unitas.

Strange things happen.

But I still think the Patriots win. And it won't matter if it's a blowout or a squeaker. A win is a win, and the Patriots have been doing this for over a decade now.

Earl Morrall started Super Bowl III (and every other game for the Colts that season).

Lucky
01-11-2013, 11:53 PM
Schaub just might be a QB who is a lot like Namath. Neither guy is really known for being mobile. Both guys are accurate and sort of lumbering around out there, and most people think Schaub can't beat Brady just like people thought Namath couldn't beat Unitas.
Namath was a mobile, scrambling QB prior to his knee injuries. And he had a golden arm and, along with Marino and Unitas, had the greatest release of any QB. Namath was a fearless gambler as a passer. Other than being a QB from Pennsylvania, he had nothing in common with Schaub. Not your best attempt at an analogy.

infantrycak
01-12-2013, 12:25 AM
:lol:Can't deny that, but it did show some signs of having a heart beat last weekend.
No doubt Kubiak has to change our all too predictable offensive scheme. But, how do you change something that we must rely on, namely the run and what that sets up if its successful?

This simply isn't true. The Texans led the league in passing in a year their running game sucked rocks and the system was the same. It is more on the ability of the team as a whole to sell the run than it is the success of the run.

Textan
01-12-2013, 12:42 AM
I hear you infantry, but you and I both know it's not just stats.
It's that quality not easily identifiable. Brady has it. Rodgers has it. Peyton has it. Terry Bradshaw had it. Staubach had it. Elway had it. Luck will probably have it. Wilson will have it. RGIII will probably have it.
Schaub will never have it, sorry.
I hope and pray he proves me and all doubters wrong this weekend. I want nothing more than a win against NE. I tell ya I'd feel a whole lot better about our chances if we had that elite QB.
You throw 4 or 5 hundred yards a game and still walk away with an L, what the hell do those numbers really matter for?

infantrycak
01-12-2013, 01:07 AM
I hear you infantry, but you and I both know it's not just stats.
It's that quality not easily identifiable. Brady has it. Rodgers has it. Peyton has it. Terry Bradshaw had it. Staubach had it. Elway had it. Luck will probably have it. Wilson will have it. RGIII will probably have it.
Schaub will never have it, sorry.
I hope and pray he proves me and all doubters wrong this weekend. I want nothing more than a win against NE. I tell ya I'd feel a whole lot better about our chances if we had that elite QB.
You throw 4 or 5 hundred yards a game and still walk away with an L, what the hell do those numbers really matter for?

I wasn't making a comment on the QBs but on the system. Since you bring it up however, the system worked when we had no running game because if there is one thing Schaub stands out on it is the quality of his play fake.

Textan
01-12-2013, 01:42 AM
I wasn't making a comment on the QBs but on the system. Since you bring it up however, the system worked when we had no running game because if there is one thing Schaub stands out on it is the quality of his play fake.

I'll give you that, but if the run game's chugging along nicely I'm sure it makes Schaub's sales a little easier. Vice versa, if Schaub were a deadly accurate QB, with mobility/scrambling ability shown by the likes of Wilson, wouldn't that create less pressure on the receivers, because you can't go all out on the pass coverage if you have a mobile and accurate, running QB. Plus, I believe it would open up the running game more.
Again, the system would be SO much better with that elite QB, IMO.
As it stands, one tiny glitch and the cards come tumbling down.

TexanBacker93
01-12-2013, 09:24 AM
Its on the team not any specific unit or person.

Although, the offense isn't helping the D by producing drives that give rest and help some with field position.

I'm watching the 1st Colts game again & a sequence in the 2nd quarter is indicitive of how the struggles of the offense are hurting the D.

The Texans are shutting the Colts down into the 2nd when a penalty on a punt return forces us to start our drive inside the 10. We go 3 & out and a horrible punt gives the Colts the ball back at the 35. We force a fumble at the goalline and get the ball back. Again, a 3 & out for us and the Colts once again get good field position. This time they end up with a FG.

If the offense could have moved the ball at all it could have prevented the scoring play by Indy.

This brings up 2 more units that are more to blame in my mind: special teams and coaching.

Our field position continues to be IMO the worst in the league. If we'd kneel in the endzone everytime we'd be better off.

EllisUnit
01-12-2013, 09:35 AM
The D was supposed to continue their domination this year.
Put them on the murderous list.

Can you remember how this D was supposed to claim the number one spot on the NFL this year?

Wasn't that what you counted on for the Texans to make it to the SB before the season started?

Well i expected the offense and defense to be as equally dominant. Remember when our offense carried the team ? I expect all 3 phases of the game to play equally as well. Is that to much to ask ? We do after all have plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

amazing80
01-12-2013, 10:28 AM
Agree! throwing a pick in a play-off game is not good.
Ask Brady when he threw one against the Jets and 3 times against the Chargers.

And yet Brady was clutch and won 3 super bowls...has Schaub?

amazing80
01-12-2013, 10:31 AM
You guys keep avoiding the questions.

1. What is the role of the D on this team?
2. What is the role of Schaub on this team?

If you want to point your fingers wherever, it's your choice.

Have fun at it.

How about the fact that when our offense sucks, they leave our defense out to dry and force them to play forever. When our offense roles we control the TOP. It works hand in hand, but falls on our qb. He needs to score touchdowns and stop being so damn inaccurate. Our defense has had lapses, and they are held accountable, people on this site ***** about them too, the difference is, Schaub has always sucked, he isn't getting better, and still fails to do anything good in the bight lights. He is a choker

Ever notice we win when Foster goes over 100 yards....thats because he carries this team, not Schaub

EllisUnit
01-12-2013, 11:27 AM
:lol:Can't deny that, but it did show some signs of having a heart beat last weekend.
No doubt Kubiak has to change our all too predictable offensive scheme. But, how do you change something that we must rely on, namely the run and what that sets up if its successful?
I just hope if in our first or second drives Kubiak recognizes certain schemes that may or may not have success.
How many run plays on the right side did we see Foster make against NE last time? Could have been the left, all I know is it wasn't working worth a damn, and it kept getting called.

Wish we would put AJ, Jean, Posey out there on PA have a lot better shot to go dee that way. Against the bengals Schaub would roll out and it would look like he was about to sling it deep and then he would throw it 5 yards down the field. Want to see some deep stuff tomorrow.

417Texan
01-12-2013, 12:05 PM
Key tomorrow is get Af ON FIRE EARLY......................it should open pass game up with MS. Pats defense can be had but will Gary use the tools on offense to adjust to Pats d? Sometimes wonder bout his game planning.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 12:09 PM
I'd say because last time we played them the D got back to back to back 3 and out and the Offense got zero points out of those possesions. D can stop them all day but if the Offense don't put points on the board we lose.

& Let's not forget, The Patriots D is among the worst in the league. Our offense should have had a better showing than what we did.

The offense also did not show up against the Vikings or the Colts.... that's what lost us home field through out.

Sure, the defense could have played a little better in all three games but lets be honest.

of the 12 wins, the defense dominated & paved the way for the offense in 10 of them.

I want more talent on the offense, or I want more "winners" on offense. I think the last two seasons are going to go a long way towards improving what I've been calling "pedigree" so we'll see.

But talent wise, really we're stacked on offense. 3 pro bowl offensive lineman, sure Wade Smith is questionable, & he's been struggling with injuries.... but it is what it is. Andre Johnson, arguably the best at his position & he's about as seasoned as they come. The Arian, again arguably the best at his position.

Both Andre & Arian have had great games recently. The only person we haven't seen step up... actually he looks like he's regressed, is our Pro Bowl QB.

I honestly don't think we'd have seen any difference in the last 4 games had we played Tj Yates.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead & start with the Tj Yates hate, but how you going to tell me two INTs vs Indianapolis, that pick six vs Cincy, the no show vs Minnesota.... how you going to tell me Tj would have been worse?

What has Matt done that Tj wouldn't have?

Now, I'm good with Matt taking the snaps, I've seen him play at a much higher level. Haven't seen as much from Tj..... all I'm saying, is that it's past time for this guy to step it up. I think it's in him,

"But we're running out of time Chavez"
http://mimg.ugo.com/201201/2/1/7/216712/cuts/doc_528_poster.jpg

It's time for the leader to step up.

417Texan
01-12-2013, 12:13 PM
& Let's not forget, The Patriots D is among the worst in the league. Our offense should have had a better showing than what we did.

The offense also did not show up against the Vikings or the Colts.... that's what lost us home field through out.

Sure, the defense could have played a little better in all three games but lets be honest.

of the 12 wins, the defense dominated & paved the way for the offense in 10 of them.

I want more talent on the offense, or I want more "winners" on offense. I think the last two seasons are going to go a long way towards improving what I've been calling "pedigree" so we'll see.

But talent wise, really we're stacked on offense. 3 pro bowl offensive lineman, sure Wade Smith is questionable, & he's been struggling with injuries.... but it is what it is. Andre Johnson, arguably the best at his position & he's about as seasoned as they come. The Arian, again arguably the best at his position.

Both Andre & Arian have had great games recently. The only person we haven't seen step up... actually he looks like he's regressed, is our Pro Bowl QB.

I honestly don't think we'd have seen any difference in the last 4 games had we played Tj Yates.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead & start with the Tj Yates hate, but how you going to tell me two INTs vs Indianapolis, that pick six vs Cincy, the no show vs Minnesota.... how you going to tell me Tj would have been worse?

What has Matt done that Tj wouldn't have?













Now, I'm good with Matt taking the snaps, I've seen him play at a much higher level. Haven't seen as much from Tj..... all I'm saying, is that it's past time for this guy to step it up. I think it's in him,

"But we're running out of time Chavez"
http://mimg.ugo.com/201201/2/1/7/216712/cuts/doc_528_poster.jpg

It's time for the leader to step up.

thunderkyss I agree. Glad you see Pats D is one of the worse. I feel Houston has the weapons to score major points on them. Gary cannot be scared of success.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 12:20 PM
Brady had thrown for 3 INTs 3 times, 2 INTs twice, and one Int 7 times in the play-offs.

(Somebody double check it please).

Hey, was that the game they whup'd our ass in on Monday night a few weeks ago?

Was that one of the games between then & now?

If not, does it really matter?

We're talking about Schaub's play not instilling confidence in anyone here & find it hard to believe there's any confidence in the locker room based on anything but hope & prayer.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 12:24 PM
IMO it isn't fair to compare Schaub to Brady, there is a good chance that when Brady is done he will be hands down the GOAT of all time, I could even make a case that he is right now.


Sorry, he's not even the GORN

He's good. One of the 4 best of 2012, but no.

EllisUnit
01-12-2013, 12:27 PM
& Let's not forget, The Patriots D is among the worst in the league. Our offense should have had a better showing than what we did.

The offense also did not show up against the Vikings or the Colts.... that's what lost us home field through out.

Sure, the defense could have played a little better in all three games but lets be honest.

of the 12 wins, the defense dominated & paved the way for the offense in 10 of them.

I want more talent on the offense, or I want more "winners" on offense. I think the last two seasons are going to go a long way towards improving what I've been calling "pedigree" so we'll see.

But talent wise, really we're stacked on offense. 3 pro bowl offensive lineman, sure Wade Smith is questionable, & he's been struggling with injuries.... but it is what it is. Andre Johnson, arguably the best at his position & he's about as seasoned as they come. The Arian, again arguably the best at his position.

Both Andre & Arian have had great games recently. The only person we haven't seen step up... actually he looks like he's regressed, is our Pro Bowl QB.

I honestly don't think we'd have seen any difference in the last 4 games had we played Tj Yates.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead & start with the Tj Yates hate, but how you going to tell me two INTs vs Indianapolis, that pick six vs Cincy, the no show vs Minnesota.... how you going to tell me Tj would have been worse?

What has Matt done that Tj wouldn't have?

Now, I'm good with Matt taking the snaps, I've seen him play at a much higher level. Haven't seen as much from Tj..... all I'm saying, is that it's past time for this guy to step it up. I think it's in him,

"But we're running out of time Chavez"
http://mimg.ugo.com/201201/2/1/7/216712/cuts/doc_528_poster.jpg

It's time for the leader to step up.

Yep and dont forget all the turnovers our D was forcing at the start of the season and providing the offense with a short field. As the turnover went away so did our ability to put up a lot of points.

76Texan
01-12-2013, 12:37 PM
Hey, was that the game they whup'd our ass in on Monday night a few weeks ago?

Was that one of the games between then & now?

If not, does it really matter?

We're talking about Schaub's play not instilling confidence in anyone here & find it hard to believe there's any confidence in the locker room based on anything but hope & prayer.

Fans confidence doesn't win games. :runaway:

This team is built to win with the D, and a combination of the run and pass.

For the longest time, these same posters argued that the Texans are a run first team.

Now, all of a sudden, they want Schaub to be Brady.
Schaub is normally good for an INT a game.
You hope he doesn't, but you shouldn't be surprised when he does.

If he plays worse, while the rest of the team do their jobs then chew him out for all I care.

Everybody has the right to name their own scape goat; similarly, I reserve the right to disagree (see Myers, Jackson, Allen, Harris, Pollard, Wilson, etc.)

Playoffs
01-12-2013, 12:46 PM
Bigger question for me -- Are the Texans a bit of a one man team?

Where would we be without the once-in-a-lifetime season that J.J. Watt had?

Where would this defense be without Watt?

(Probably needs to be its own topic.)

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
I'll give you that, but if the run game's chugging along nicely I'm sure it makes Schaub's sales a little easier. Vice versa, if Schaub were a deadly accurate QB, with mobility/scrambling ability shown by the likes of Wilson, wouldn't that create less pressure on the receivers, because you can't go all out on the pass coverage if you have a mobile and accurate, running QB. Plus, I believe it would open up the running game more.
Again, the system would be SO much better with that elite QB, IMO.
As it stands, one tiny glitch and the cards come tumbling down.

Honestly, this league has seen so many Russell Wilsons that I'd thought fans would give the guy a year or two before going gaga over them. Dude's got talent, but is there a coach out there that can maximize it over the long term?

I don't know, haven't seen him yet. A lot of Wilson's success, is because he's "new" & we just don't know what to expect from him from a defensive stand point. The league will figure him out. The same way they figured out Young, the same way they figured out Newman, the same way the figured out Romo, and Vick.

There are more Moons, & Rivers, Warners, and Cutlers that flirt with Success, than there are Randall Cunnnighams.

Think about it, we're starting to change our ideas now about who we thought Bradford, Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, & Newton are.

mussop
01-12-2013, 01:10 PM
Fans confidence doesn't win games. :runaway:

This team is built to win with the D, and a combination of the run and pass.

For the longest time, these same posters argued that the Texans are a run first team.

Now, all of a sudden, they want Schaub to be Brady.
Schaub is normally good for an INT a game.
You hope he doesn't, but you shouldn't be surprised when he does.

If he plays worse, while the rest of the team do their jobs then chew him out for all I care.

Everybody has the right to name their own scape goat; similarly, I reserve the right to disagree (see Myers, Jackson, Allen, Harris, Pollard, Wilson, etc.)

You are like a broken record with this. Seriously, name a single person that has said this. You can't! So stop acting like everyone that disagrees with you expects Schaub to play like Brady or Manning or any other elite QB.

You are just trying to justify your point of view by making stuff up.

klockWork
01-12-2013, 01:12 PM
This brings up 2 more units that are more to blame in my mind: special teams and coaching.

Our field position continues to be IMO the worst in the league. If we'd kneel in the endzone everytime we'd be better off.

People are forgetting our horrid ST and field position game. We short changed ourselves 10-15 yds on every change of possession. How you like your odds of winning a race when your opponents is allowed that much of a head start on every relay?

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 01:19 PM
Fans confidence doesn't win games. :runaway:

Who said it does?

This team is built to win with the D, and a combination of the run and pass.

Is that why we hired an offensive guru as head coach? Given him carte blanche from hiring a GM to towel boys? Gave up two 2nd round picks then a bucket of money for a back-up QB? Spent a first on a LT, two thirds on two other tackles that are no longer with this team?

This team was built to have a dominant run game & a good defense. We spent so many draft picks on defensive players because the coaching was horrible up until last year.


For the longest time, these same posters argued that the Texans are a run first team.

Now, all of a sudden, they want Schaub to be Brady.
Schaub is normally good for an INT a game.
You hope he doesn't, but you shouldn't be surprised when he does.

Who's asking him to be Brady? We'd be happy if he'd be Romo (I would), Ryan, Flacco, Bradford, I'd be happy if he would play like Chad freak'n Pennington right now.

If he plays worse, while the rest of the team do their jobs then chew him out for all I care.

That's what's been happening. That's exactly what's been happening & that's why the spotlight is on Schaub.

Everybody has the right to name their own scape goat; similarly, I reserve the right to disagree (see Myers, Jackson, Allen, Harris, Pollard, Wilson, etc.)

& I was in the Chris Myers fan club before you. I was in the Kareem Jackson fan club before you. I was in the Jason Allen isn't a starter club before you.

What's your point?

Everybody but you see a drop off in Schaub's playing but you. Even the stats show a drop off in QB rating. Jj Watt is pretty much writing history, so is Foster, so is Andre...

Where's our QB?

Can we win without Schaub playing like a pro bowler? Yeah... but it would be much easier if he would.

Lucky
01-12-2013, 01:22 PM
You are like a broken record with this. Seriously, name a single person that has said this. You can't! So stop acting like everyone that disagrees with you expects Schaub to play like Brady or Manning or any other elite QB.

You are just trying to justify your point of view by making stuff up.

Exactly. We are looking for the Matt Schaub of the first 12 games, who had 21 tds and 9 ints when the team averaged 30ppg. Not the version from the the last 5 games who has thrown one td and 4 picks while the team averaged less than 17 ppg. We're asking Matt Schaub to man up and play like a good NFL QB again.

76Texan
01-12-2013, 01:32 PM
Exactly. We are looking for the Matt Schaub of the first 12 games, who had 21 tds and 9 ints when the team averaged 30ppg. Not the version from the the last 5 games who has thrown one td and 4 picks while the team averaged less than 17 ppg. We're asking Matt Schaub to man up and play like a good NFL QB again.

I never said that Schaub had been playing good as of late.

The fact that he was better in some games was helped by playing some poorer teams and that the D was playing great in some games.

What happened to all the turnovers by the D?

And y'all ought to know the word sarcasm
Do I have to put that smiliepalm every time I post something?

Schaub is Schaub and if he's your scapegoat then so be it.

Have fun at it :)

Lucky
01-12-2013, 01:37 PM
Schaub is Schaub and if he's your scapegoat then so be it.

Have fun at it :)

The Texans haven't lost this game, yet. I am hoping that a scapegoat isn't required.

76Texan
01-12-2013, 01:39 PM
The Texans haven't lost this game, yet. I am hoping that a scapegoat isn't required.

I hope so, too;I certainly do.

coltfan123
01-12-2013, 01:45 PM
this is on santa clause..hes been rigging patriots games in december as long as i can remember

http://i47.tinypic.com/2zpvcxk.jpg

76Texan
01-12-2013, 01:49 PM
this is on santa clause..hes been rigging patriots games in december as long as i can remember

http://i47.tinypic.com/2zpvcxk.jpg

LOL, that's funny!

coltfan123
01-12-2013, 01:59 PM
he has spys planted on all sorts of teams, check this from seahawks

http://i45.tinypic.com/moh9e.jpg

patsfan13
01-12-2013, 02:56 PM
Sorry, he's not even the GORN

He's good. One of the 4 best of 2012, but no.


Well if you look at the record you can make the argument that he is already the GOAT, Tied for most playoff wins with Montana, Montana has 1 more loss than Brady, 1 more SB appearance one more SB loss than Montana. 2nd highest winning % for playoff wins (Bradshaw highest) with QB's > 10 playoff starts.

As Far as the regular season it isn't close, Brady is 1 of 3 QB to win more than 70% of their NFL regular season starts, Montana and Staubach are the other 2, Brady leads with a .777, Staubach is at .745 (although he only has 85 ref season wins whereas Brady and Montana are over 125 wins), Montana has a .713 winning %. A Rogers is only at a .665 winning % and Manning at a .688.

Brady is head and shoulders above everyone else as a reg season QB.

Now IF he wins on Sunday he will have the highest winning % in the playoffs of all time for QB with > 10 playoff starts.

If he has another 4 average years he will have more wins that Farve and 50% more playoff wins than Montana.

IF IF IF (IOW I don't know it will happen) he wins another SB it isn't even close.

BTW So far Brady is 5-1 Conference Championship games, Montana was 4-3 in Conference Championship games.

The All Pro snub is the sort of slight that drives a competitor like Brady and other great Team athletes like B Russelll and M Jordan.


OH BTW the Pats D gave up the same number of points as the Texans this year, does their D suck also?

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 03:29 PM
Well if you look at the record you can make the argument that he is already the GOAT, Tied for most playoff wins with Montana, Montana has 1 more loss than Brady, 1 more SB appearance one more SB loss than Montana. 2nd highest winning % for playoff wins (Bradshaw highest) with QB's > 10 playoff starts.

As Far as the regular season it isn't close, Brady is 1 of 3 QB to win more than 70% of their NFL regular season starts, Montana and Staubach are the other 2, Brady leads with a .777, Staubach is at .745 (although he only has 85 ref season wins whereas Brady and Montana are over 125 wins), Montana has a .713 winning %. A Rogers is only at a .665 winning % and Manning at a .688.


Winning is a team accomplishment. You can't decide who the greatest QB of all time is based on wins or win percentage. According to what you've suggested, Marino & Moon aren't even in the conversation & they should be along with Cunningham, and a bunch of other QBs that were on teams that didn't have the success of Belichick.

The most winningest QB of all time? I'll give you that, but GOAT.... like I said, he's not even GORN.

patsfan13
01-12-2013, 03:35 PM
Brady has won 10 division titles of the 11 years he played a full season, none of his teammates played on all the division titles.

The winning % is off the charts, QB is the single most important position in team sports.

Brady will go down as the GOAT. He record will be undeniable.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 03:39 PM
Brady has won 10 division titles of the 11 years he played a full season, none of his teammates played on all the division titles.


Let's start another thread about this ok? Here, we're supposed to be ragging on Matt Schaub.

Better yet, go to Patsfans, I'm sure you'll find more support for your argument. I'm on Patsfan too, I'll be more than happy to continue this over there.

infantrycak
01-12-2013, 03:57 PM
As Far as the regular season it isn't close, Brady is 1 of 3 QB to win more than 70% of their NFL regular season starts, Montana and Staubach are the other 2, Brady leads with a .777, Staubach is at .745 (although he only has 85 ref season wins whereas Brady and Montana are over 125 wins), Montana has a .713 winning %. A Rogers is only at a .665 winning % and Manning at a .688.

Just going to point out Staubach has fewer stats because he was a rookie at 27 years old after serving in the Navy.

Winning is a team accomplishment. You can't decide who the greatest QB of all time is based on wins or win percentage. According to what you've suggested, Marino & Moon aren't even in the conversation & they should be along with Cunningham, and a bunch of other QBs that were on teams that didn't have the success of Belichick.

The most winningest QB of all time? I'll give you that, but GOAT.... like I said, he's not even GORN.

Marino can get in the conversation marginally. Moon and Cunningham shouldn't even be brought up. But I agree with your team accomplishment point. IMO Bradshaw is dramatically over rated because of his team.

TexanBacker93
01-12-2013, 04:28 PM
Honestly, this league has seen so many Russell Wilsons that I'd thought fans would give the guy a year or two before going gaga over them. Dude's got talent, but is there a coach out there that can maximize it over the long term?

I don't know, haven't seen him yet. A lot of Wilson's success, is because he's "new" & we just don't know what to expect from him from a defensive stand point. The league will figure him out. The same way they figured out Young, the same way they figured out Newman, the same way the figured out Romo, and Vick.

There are more Moons, & Rivers, Warners, and Cutlers that flirt with Success, than there are Randall Cunnnighams.

Think about it, we're starting to change our ideas now about who we thought Bradford, Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, & Newton are.

I would say Warner did more than flirt with success. 3 trips to a Super Bowl and 2 plays away from 3 wins there.

EllisUnit
01-13-2013, 04:42 PM
This is why 76..... just like against the bengals the D is doing a hell of a job and the offense nothing.

Playoffs
01-13-2013, 04:49 PM
Schaub isn't dropping passes.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 04:50 PM
But y is that ALL on schaub? U guys make zero sense. The defense has allowed 3 TD's where noone has lined up on the reciever...thats all on the defense..

EllisUnit
01-13-2013, 04:55 PM
But y is that ALL on schaub? U guys make zero sense. The defense has allowed 3 TD's where noone has lined up on the reciever...thats all on the defense..

sure casey dropped a sure TD but then he over threw AJ, he has had more bad throws then drops so far.

EllisUnit
01-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Our do you mean the drop by foster on 3rd down thrown 6 yards behind the first down ?

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 05:01 PM
sure casey dropped a sure TD but then he over threw AJ, he has had more bad throws then drops so far.



Ridiculous...no qb in the league puts the ball right on the money every single pass play. Your WR's have some culpability in completing the pass too. If they can get 2 hands on the ball, its a catchable ball. I seen flacco, ryan and wilson's WR's making plays for them...so far, schaub hasn't really had the same level of support.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 05:01 PM
Go enjoy the game EU; quit being silly. :)

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 05:17 PM
Defense is looking silly..... Antonio looks like he's losing his cool, Barwin looks like he's trying too hard.

Don't know why Kareem let up on that big play... should have made the refs call the penalty.


Haven't seen alot from Hernandez or Lloyd. That's good.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 05:22 PM
Defense is looking silly..... Antonio looks like he's losing his cool, Barwin looks like he's trying too hard.

Don't know why Kareem let up on that big play... should have made the refs call the penalty.


Haven't seen alot from Hernandez or Lloyd. That's good.

It looks to me like Welker pushed off.

EllisUnit
01-13-2013, 05:37 PM
well hell hernandez pushed Quin down, isnt that offensive pass interference ?

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 06:04 PM
Ridiculous...no qb in the league puts the ball right on the money every single pass play. Your WR's have some culpability in completing the pass too. If they can get 2 hands on the ball, its a catchable ball. I seen flacco, ryan and wilson's WR's making plays for them...so far, schaub hasn't really had the same level of support.

Lol our qb never puts it on the money. Especially when it matters most.

Playoffs
01-13-2013, 06:04 PM
It looks to me like Welker pushed off.

well hell hernandez pushed Quin down, isnt that offensive pass interference ?

Those don't get called on the Patsies, per Goodell.

CretorFrigg
01-13-2013, 06:17 PM
It's on both Schaub and the D. Wade Phillips has fail written all over him. I can't help but laugh at the blind followers that refuse to acknowledge it is partially Wade's fault just because he had one magic season with us.

He's just another Kubiak clone. He's way too stubborn for his own good. He still has linebackers covering receivers when it's obvious they can't.

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 06:24 PM
schaub is done.

but something is fundamentally wrong with this defense against good qb's (even chad henne went off on this defense)

i want to say it's the injuries to the LB's but when wade has lb's on wr's, alan ball on calvin johnson, and harris on welker it makes me scratch my head.

Hervoyel
01-13-2013, 06:26 PM
It's on both Schaub and the D. Wade Phillips has fail written all over him. I can't help but laugh at the blind followers that refuse to acknowledge it is partially Wade's fault just because he had one magic season with us.

He's just another Kubiak clone. He's way too stubborn for his own good. He still has linebackers covering receivers when it's obvious they can't.

Well, his "bad" season with us was far and away better than any other season a Texans defense has ever had (other than of course his good season with us). If we're going to look at Gary and Wade and identify the biggest sinner then I think Gary runs away with that.

Schaub gave it his best and he still imploded on the big stage. The defense got carved up by the Patriots too. No denying it.

That's what happens when you go up to New England and don't score or eat clock and leave your defense out on the field all day.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 06:35 PM
It's on both Schaub and the D. Wade Phillips has fail written all over him. I can't help but laugh at the blind followers that refuse to acknowledge it is partially Wade's fault just because he had one magic season with us.

He's just another Kubiak clone. He's way too stubborn for his own good. He still has linebackers covering receivers when it's obvious they can't.

San Franz D gave up 34 to NE but their O scored 41. Any questions?

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 06:37 PM
San Franz D gave up 34 to NE but their O scored 41. Any questions?

patriots only scored 10 points in the first 3 quarters tho.

and brady had only 1 TD and 2 INT's

Textan
01-13-2013, 06:42 PM
People are still defending Schaub, seriously?

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 06:45 PM
patriots only scored 10 points in the first 3 quarters tho.

and brady had only 1 TD and 2 INT's

But it still took 41 pts to beat them. 41 pts behind that San Fran D. Any questions

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 06:48 PM
But it still took 41 pts to beat them. 41 pts behind that San Fran D. Any questions

it took the cardinals 20 points and the seahawks 24 points to beat the patriots as well.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 06:54 PM
it took the cardinals 20 points and the seahawks 24 points to beat the patriots as well.

Cmon man, that was way early in the season and they were on the road....apples to oranges..

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 06:56 PM
Cmon man, that was way early in the season and they were on the road....apples to oranges..

comparing a regular season game to a playoff game is kinda apples to oranges as well.

Textan
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
Texans D held Brady, wasn't it the first three drives?, and our pitiful offense only gets three out of the deal. They get three when Manning's brought down on the 10 yd line. Did anyone else kinda feel like those three opportunities were our only golden opportunities to take this game? I knew we were in trouble when we couldn't score a TD inside the RZ, yet again. Same as it ever was.

EllisUnit
01-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Well This team could be a superbowl contendar with a good QB. We better figure something out before our window closes.

Ohhhh that TD to Posey will be the reason they dont find a replacment for Schaub yeahhh for that :wadepalm:

Rey
01-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Offense isn't doing what it's designed to do. Control the ball, methodically drive down the field and score TD's.

Offense has every key player on that side of the ball healthy for the most part.

Defense has lost a few players, plus they have Barwin playing like he doesn't care about money. Oh, and they are also going up against Brady....

I expect the offense to do a better job with all your key guys there. For the most part this offense has been together for years. Schaub has been here for long time. I expect the offense to be more machine like in their production all things considered.

They don't come out and play with any gumption. That's on the QB and head coach. The offensive minded head coach.

That's not to excuse the defense. It's like if you have two kids..one is 14 and the other is 7. You expect more from that 14 year old as far as decision making goes. I expect more from the offense than what we've been given.

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 07:00 PM
Our defense still got a 40 burger dropped on them....thats not acceptable for any team

Rey
01-13-2013, 07:00 PM
Oh shizzt....I just realized Mr Tex and Mr Texan are different people...LMAO...

Mr teX
01-13-2013, 07:01 PM
Offense isn't doing what it's designed to do. Control the ball, methodically drive down the field and score TD's.

Offense has every key player on that side of the ball healthy for the most part.

Defense has lost a few players, plus they have Barwin playing like he doesn't care about money. Oh, and they are also going up against Brady....

I expect the offense to do a better job with all your key guys there. For the most part this offense has been together for years. Schaub has been here for long time. I expect the offense to be more machine like in their production all things considered.

They don't come out and play with any gumption. That's on the QB and head coach. The offensive minded head coach.

That's not to excuse the defense. It's like if you have two kids..one is 14 and the other is 7. You expect more from that 14 year old as far as decision making goes. I expect more from the offense than what we've been given.

Great post...excelent way to put it.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:06 PM
it took the cardinals 20 points and the seahawks 24 points to beat the patriots as well.

you seen the pats O totals since then??? you seen our points scored then. how bout now, you see what niners scored in playoffs vs GB. dude points win. schaub doesnt manufacure points. kubiak is fine his qb is limited

GP
01-13-2013, 07:07 PM
This team wasn't a playoff team until Wade Phillips came to town.

Two times since he got here...we've made it to the AFC divisional round.

Prior to that, with Kubiak's choices at d-coord...TWICE!...we looked like a joke.

Sorry, but until this offense has a playmaker at QB and not a dink-and-dunk, bail out at the slightest sign of trouble, sloth-toed, Good For 1 or 2 Really BAD Decisions per game on a consistent basis...I can't say that Wade causes me concern.

Frankly, Gary should consider just letting Wade have every pick in the draft if he's going to force Schaub and his (Gary's) style of offense on us.

It takes TWO to tango, and remember: Prior to Wade's arrival, this t-e-a-m did NOTHING.

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 07:16 PM
you seen the pats O totals since then??? you seen our points scored then. how bout now, you see what niners scored in playoffs vs GB. dude points win. schaub doesnt manufacure points. kubiak is fine his qb is limited

i also saw defenses and special teams manufacture points as well. (are we the only defense that has yet to get a turnover in the playoffs this year? feels like it)

i've already said schaub is a problem but the defense is also problem as well.

schaub can't carry a team. and the texans can't win in shootouts. to combat that we would need a defense that doesn't give up 3rd and longs, get's turnovers, and limits touchdowns in the redzone as well.

the problem is neither the O or the D can compensate for either side of the ball.

schaub deserves blame so does the defense as well. that's all i am saying.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 07:18 PM
i also saw defenses and special teams manufacture points as well. (are we the only defense that has yet to get a turnover in the playoffs this year? feels like it)

i've already said schaub is a problem but the defense is also problem as well.

schaub can't carry a team. and the texans can't win in shootouts. to combat that we would need a defense that doesn't give up 3rd and longs, get's turnovers, and limits touchdowns in the redzone as well.

the problem is neither the O or the D can compensate for either side of the ball.

schaub deserves blame so does the defense as well. that's all i am saying.

but schaubs ceiling is 15 pts. due you expect wade to hold an offense to 14?

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:20 PM
but schaubs ceiling is 15 pts. due you expect wade to hold an offense to 14?

How many points did the Pats score?
How much time did they have?

Defense = Big Fail

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 07:21 PM
but schaubs ceiling is 15 pts. due you expect wade to hold an offense to 14?

no. i think we're good if we a hold an offenses to under 30. this offense at it's best this year was 29 ppg. the patriots at their best is 35 ppg.

games in the 30+ range are not our strong suit.

bckey
01-13-2013, 07:21 PM
This team wasn't a playoff team until Wade Phillips came to town.

Two times since he got here...we've made it to the AFC divisional round.

Prior to that, with Kubiak's choices at d-coord...TWICE!...we looked like a joke.

Sorry, but until this offense has a playmaker at QB and not a dink-and-dunk, bail out at the slightest sign of trouble, sloth-toed, Good For 1 or 2 Really BAD Decisions per game on a consistent basis...I can't say that Wade causes me concern.

Frankly, Gary should consider just letting Wade have every pick in the draft if he's going to force Schaub and his (Gary's) style of offense on us.

It takes TWO to tango, and remember: Prior to Wade's arrival, this t-e-a-m did NOTHING.

I totally agree.

LonerATO
01-13-2013, 07:21 PM
And don't forget that Foster is an UDFA that we gave a hefty contract to as we count on him to bear a good portion of the load offensively.

If they didn't give him and Schaub such big contracts, they would have been able to possibly keep Winston.

Why didn't they just use the franchise tag on Schaub or Foster last year?

Texcore
01-13-2013, 07:23 PM
We will never win the SB with Shaub. Plain and simple folks.

AndyWin
01-13-2013, 07:24 PM
We will never win the SB with Shaub. Plain and simple folks.

bingo

gtexan02
01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
We will never win the SB with Shaub. Plain and simple folks.

I can get behind this I think. Sad as that is to admit.
At the same time, not too many SB teams give up 40+ points and win.

We lost tonight because of both offense and defense. Our WRs dropping balls didn't help

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 07:28 PM
He's just another Kubiak clone. He's way too stubborn for his own good. He still has linebackers covering receivers when it's obvious they can't.

What receiver was the LBs covering? That was a RB, Shane Vereen. LBs should be able to cover a RB.

I think Wade deserves a lot of this "blame" coming out of the half, they let the Patriots march down the field for 7..... they looked just as lost after the half as they did in the first game.

But this is definitely a team loss. The offense scored 28 & it's hard to look past that, but we never had the lead, but we played like we did. That's another big reason we lost this game.

They go into the half playing offensively like we belong in the game, then come out in the second half & go back to everything that wasn't working.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:31 PM
If they didn't give him and Schaub such big contracts, they would have been able to possibly keep Winston.

Why didn't they just use the franchise tag on Schaub or Foster last year?

I don't know for sure, I don't know enough about franchise tag on a QB.
Schaub's contract is only average by NFL standard.

I've been looking for guys to replace him for two years already; It wasn't like I wanted to settle for Schaub.

76Texan
01-13-2013, 07:33 PM
And I had actually suggested two very feasible solutions: Collin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson.

gtexan02
01-13-2013, 07:34 PM
41 points on our D tonight. Which was strange, because I thought they actually played really well. Patriots scored or had a 3 and out it seemed.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 07:35 PM
Schaub gave it his best and he still imploded on the big stage. The defense got carved up by the Patriots too. No denying it.


I don't know that Schaub was put into a position to win. We saw him with 4 & 5 receivers (counting TEs & RBs) & he was successful. When he only had 3 receivers in a pattern, he just couldn't find an outlet & he's not going to extend a play.

We asked him to do that & he looked goofy, but that's like asking Brady to play left handed (probably still would have whup'd our butt).....

Matt Ryan didn't do much more than Matt today, as far as extending plays & such, but he had playmakers we just don't.

The biggest thing we need to do going forward.... if Schaub is still going to be here, is cut Kevin Walter. He should not be on any NFL roster. We need Posey, Martin, & Jean fighting for the 3 & 4 spot & we need to bring a legit #2 WR. And that won't be worth a crap if Kubiak doesn't game plan to his QBs strength, meaning more 3 & 4 WR sets & throwing the ball.

We can run the ball after we get a lead, not before.

The Third Man
01-13-2013, 07:35 PM
This team wasn't a playoff team until Wade Phillips came to town.

Two times since he got here...we've made it to the AFC divisional round.

Prior to that, with Kubiak's choices at d-coord...TWICE!...we looked like a joke.

Sorry, but until this offense has a playmaker at QB and not a dink-and-dunk, bail out at the slightest sign of trouble, sloth-toed, Good For 1 or 2 Really BAD Decisions per game on a consistent basis...I can't say that Wade causes me concern.

Frankly, Gary should consider just letting Wade have every pick in the draft if he's going to force Schaub and his (Gary's) style of offense on us.

It takes TWO to tango, and remember: Prior to Wade's arrival, this t-e-a-m did NOTHING.

Wade is just as limited as Kubiak.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 02:40 AM
Painfully, I tormented myself rewatching the game.

I don't even care to describe it; the fact that I bring it up in this thread should be plenty enough.

Then somebody menioned the net punting average.
I also noted the field position difference earlier.
Then you add the running game difference.

I don't need to name any name.

Punch your own card. :pop:

SAMURAITEXAN
01-14-2013, 02:51 AM
Painfully, I tormented myself rewatching the game.

I don't even care to describe it; the fact that I bring it up in this thread should be plenty enough.

Then somebody menioned the net punting average.
I also noted the field position difference earlier.
Then you add the running game difference.

I don't need to name any name.

Punch your own card. :pop:
Man 76, we need QB with legs so bad. Things would had been much more different if Matt had legs. I am intrigued about Redskins' Cousins.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 05:25 AM
Man 76, we need QB with legs so bad. Things would had been much more different if Matt had legs. I am intrigued about Redskins' Cousins.

Matt could have legs like Romo or RG3 & it wouldn't have mattered. Tom Brady wasn't running around "making plays" his guys were playing at a higher level than our guys that's all there is to it. Improving Schaub isn't going to change that.

EllisUnit
01-14-2013, 05:31 AM
Matt could have legs like Romo or RG3 & it wouldn't have mattered. Tom Brady wasn't running around "making plays" his guys were playing at a higher level than our guys that's all there is to it. Improving Schaub isn't going to change that.

losing by 10 and driving Schaub throws an INT. We score there the game is wide open, and even late when we need a quick score he starts checking down no timeouts and hitting guys in the middle of the field. Was it a long shot to come back ? Sure it was but i have seen it done but it takes the will to believe you can do it. All i saw was a guy padding his stats not trying to make a miracle come back.

Again it all comes down to giving up, we saw it a lot this season Gary gave up on his guys. This time it looks like his guys gave up on him. I feel bad most of all for AJ, so many years of losing you know it has to hurt more if not worse to get so close 2 seasons in a row just to have to go home early again.

Mr teX
01-14-2013, 06:15 AM
losing by 10 and driving Schaub throws an INT. We score there the game is wide open, and even late when we need a quick score he starts checking down no timeouts and hitting guys in the middle of the field. Was it a long shot to come back ? Sure it was but i have seen it done but it takes the will to believe you can do it. All i saw was a guy padding his stats not trying to make a miracle come back.

Again it all comes down to giving up, we saw it a lot this season Gary gave up on his guys. This time it looks like his guys gave up on him. I feel bad most of all for AJ, so many years of losing you know it has to hurt more if not worse to get so close 2 seasons in a row just to have to go home early again.

Oh give me a break with the sympathy for AJ crap...dude is compensated very well for what he does. If he never wins a SB, he certainly wont be the 1st HOFer to not win 1.

Also, the dime store psychology about gary giving up on his guys or vice versa is nonsense. These guys are professionals and though it has been known to happen, i highly doubt any of the guys opened up a can of quit on gary. If u want an example of a team quitting on its coach, look at Wade Phillips' cowboys team his last year in dallas...there is no comparison between the 2.

We were just beat by the better team. They had better execution, better play and better coaching period.

Txn_in_Oki
01-14-2013, 06:24 AM
You can't have a 94 yard return and not score a touchdown. When that happene I knew that's how the game would play out.

Grams
01-14-2013, 06:38 AM
Oh give me a break with the sympathy for AJ crap...dude is compensated very well for what he does. If he never wins a SB, he certainly wont be the 1st HOFer to not win 1.


We were just beat by the better team. They had better execution, better play and better coaching period.


That is it in a nutshell.


It took Tony Gonzalas 16 years to win a playoff game and he should be a HOF'r.

Txn_in_Oki
01-14-2013, 06:59 AM
That is it in a nutshell.


It took Tony Gonzalas 16 years to win a playoff game and he should be a HOF'r.

I had no idea until they said it today. Crazy.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 07:08 AM
losing by 10 and driving Schaub throws an INT. We score there the game is wide open, and even late when we need a quick score he starts checking down no timeouts and hitting guys in the middle of the field. Was it a long shot to come back ? Sure it was but i have seen it done but it takes the will to believe you can do it. All i saw was a guy padding his stats not trying to make a miracle come back.

I'm not saying Schaub has no faults. But go back to all the post before the game & see what we all thought needed to happen for us to win this game.
Arian had to get off to a good start: Didn't happen
Brooks was going to have to "handle" Wilfork: Didn't happen
Barwin had to have a big game: Didn't happen
Reed had to have a big game: Didn't happen
Our secondary was going to have to have a big game: Didn't happen, not one of them.
Barrett Ruud was going to have to be the man in coverage: Didn't happen.
We needed to get a couple of turnovers to have a chance to win: Didn't happen.

We needed to score TDs, not FGs.... well Matt did what he could there, he threw 2 of them. Actually, he threw three of them, that Rice Owl dropped one.

He spread the ball around, he gave guys a chance to make plays...

Matt was not the worst Texan on the field yesterday.

Schaub was the only one who looked like he even tried..... well, Arian & Jj did as well. But if you look, there were times when the receivers would run their routes, then stop. Maybe because they saw Matt trip all over himself when he tried to work outside the pocket, I don't know. But if he were to miraculously get out & reset, they were just standing around & not helping him out at all.


& I tried to tell myself if Matt had played a little bit better, our chances of winning would have improved, but I just can't convince myself of that. This, again, was a team fail. An organization fail, top to bottom.

Before the game started, we knew we couldn't run it up the middle, so we planned to run it to the right. They had an answer for it. We tried running it to the left, they had an answer for it. On 4th & 1 we pitched it to the left side, our strong side... they had an answer for it.

New England ran it to the right, they ran it to the left, they ran it up the middle, they ran it at Jj Watt... worked... worked like a charm.

Those players knew what they had to do & they got it done. Ours, not so much. Without a doubt Matt Schaub is among them, but he is not alone.

When we spread the field & put a lot of receivers in the pattern, they didn't have an answer for that, but instead of spreading the field & putting receivers in the pattern, we pulled the reigns back. Time & time again, Arian would sneak out of the backfield & they would not cover him. Instead of being safe & checking down, Matt threw it downfield for his receiver to have fallen down.


Again it all comes down to giving up, we saw it a lot this season Gary gave up on his guys. This time it looks like his guys gave up on him. I feel bad most of all for AJ, so many years of losing you know it has to hurt more if not worse to get so close 2 seasons in a row just to have to go home early again.

I listened to 610 after the game. I know a lot of people here don't like 610, but they get more player interviews after the game, they'll have more players & coaches on the radio today, so I'll be listening this morning as well.

But I didn't hear any of the players say they gave up. It don't sound like they gave up. They still sound like they believe in what they were doing, they still believe in the coaching staff & they believe in this team.

I'm not going by your eyeball.

Aj can demand a trade, just as easily as he demanded more money. Until he does that, I'm going to let him lie in the bed he made. Kubiak may have hitched his wagon to Schaub, but Andre hitched his wagon to Kubiak. Andre believed in Gary & Bob, I'm rolling with Andre.

Rey
01-14-2013, 07:14 AM
It's not just about this game. Schaub struggled for the last part of the season when we needed him most. He struggled terribly when he needed to be playing his best football.

Yeah the pats scored 41.....

But the could have scored 29 and still won.

Honoring Earl 34
01-14-2013, 07:49 AM
It's not just about this game. Schaub struggled for the last part of the season when we needed him most. He struggled terribly when he needed to be playing his best football.

Yeah the pats scored 41.....

But the could have scored 29 and still won.

Schaub has hit his high water mark already . Knowing the offense is not good enough to compensate for his sloth like movements and his Brad Johnson like arm .

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 09:08 AM
It's not just about this game. Schaub struggled for the last part of the season when we needed him most. He struggled terribly when he needed to be playing his best football.

Yeah the pats scored 41.....

But the could have scored 29 and still won.

Definitely agree with this. I don't think I saw much difference between Schaub down the stretch this year & Yates down the stretch last year.

GP
01-14-2013, 09:12 AM
Wade is just as limited as Kubiak.

How so?

gtexan02
01-14-2013, 09:17 AM
How so?

Just guessing here, but I think it has to do with Wade's historical progress. Wade has, historically speaking, shown that he can turn around defenses in his first year. And then those same defenses regress the next.

It may be simple 'regression towards the mean' type natural progression, but sometimes it seems like Wade doesn't have the ability to adapt coverage to who he is facing. His defenses absolutely destroy sub par QBs (poor Andy Dalton, for example). But we have consistently, both this year and last year, been shredded by elite QBs. We played Brady twice. In those two games, we gave up 41 and 42 points. We gave up 7 TDs. We got a total of 2 (3?) sacks.

It seemed like Wade's defense is boom or bust against guys like Brady. 3 and out or touchdown drive.

I don't know if this is Kubiak, the defense getting tired from being on the field so long, or adjustment issues by Wade

HOU-TEX
01-14-2013, 09:49 AM
I put a lot of the blame on our defense this season. Obviously the loss of Cush was a shot in the package, which devastated the interior of our defense. I do like our defense, but I'd like to see a little unpredictability. The Brady's, Rodgers and Mannings of the league know what we're going to do before the snap of the ball. Heck, there were times last night where I thought Brady was getting our defensive calls on the field.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 11:18 AM
The funny thing is that if we swap QB with the Broncos , the Texans would still lose the game, only by more.
Manning threw 2 picks, one returned for a TD.
Manning also fumbled the ball a couple of times, one was lost which gave the opponent short field to score a TD.

With All of Schaub's shortcomings, even of you take away the last TD throw by Schaub, the Broncos would have won their game.

How crazy is that?

76Texan
01-14-2013, 11:22 AM
Man 76, we need QB with legs so bad. Things would had been much more different if Matt had legs. I am intrigued about Redskins' Cousins.

Haha Sensei, the QB with legs went down for the Redskins.
And they had traded the farm for him.

I'm talking about RG III, not Cousins.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 11:29 AM
I put a lot of the blame on our defense this season. Obviously the loss of Cush was a shot in the package, which devastated the interior of our defense. I do like our defense, but I'd like to see a little unpredictability. The Brady's, Rodgers and Mannings of the league know what we're going to do before the snap of the ball. Heck, there were times last night where I thought Brady was getting our defensive calls on the field.

Agree! This team needs the D to play well to win.
They didn't.

I figured we needed to limit the Pats to under 17 to win, or to limit them under 24 to have a chance. Instead, we gave up a ton of points, and then some.

dream_team
01-14-2013, 11:43 AM
It's not just about this game. Schaub struggled for the last part of the season when we needed him most. He struggled terribly when he needed to be playing his best football.

Yeah the pats scored 41.....

But the could have scored 29 and still won.

Well if they scored 29, alot of things would have gone different. With 5 mins left in the game, the score would be 29-28, so we don't try an onside kick right there. We'd put them on the 20 and ask our defense to get the ball back. Instead, we failed on the onside kick, Pats simply gained 28 yards to get into FG range and seal the victory.

I think they would have won regardless if they scored 37 or higher. Anything less, we have a very good chance of winning or sending to OT. And 37 points is higher than the Pats regular season average.

My point is... Schaub isn't the type of player to carry his team on his back if other facets of the team isn't working. We needed the defense to hold the Pats to below their average, or we needed the receivers or Arian to make plays. None of that happened.

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 12:01 PM
Agree! This team needs the D to play well to win.
They didn't.

I figured we needed to limit the Pats to under 17 to win, or to limit them under 24 to have a chance. Instead, we gave up a ton of points, and then some.

I didn't think we would hold the Patriots to 17 points. I figured if we held them to the high 20s, low 30s we had a chance, a lot of people on the defense was going to have to step up for that to happen & it didn't.

A lot of people were going to have to step up on offense to score more than 30, that didn't happen either.

But I also didn't see an offense or a defensive plan that led me to believe either could happen.

foo82
01-14-2013, 12:14 PM
Well if they scored 29, alot of things would have gone different. With 5 mins left in the game, the score would be 29-28, so we don't try an onside kick right there. We'd put them on the 20 and ask our defense to get the ball back. Instead, we failed on the onside kick, Pats simply gained 28 yards to get into FG range and seal the victory.

I think they would have won regardless if they scored 37 or higher. Anything less, we have a very good chance of winning or sending to OT. And 37 points is higher than the Pats regular season average.

My point is... Schaub isn't the type of player to carry his team on his back if other facets of the team isn't working. We needed the defense to hold the Pats to below their average, or we needed the receivers or Arian to make plays. None of that happened.

I think they would have played differently if the score was closer. In the end, we also chewed up the clock for them.

b0ng
01-14-2013, 12:14 PM
It's weird how we gave up what was it 3 or 4 TD's to Shane Vereen, and never adjusted to him receiving or running the ball. We're obviously not getting rid of Wade Phillips, and we're not getting rid of Matt Schaub so we have to figure out what this team could do to win games. Not give up 41 points? That's a start. Score 30PPG? That's also a place we can start.

The thing is people arguing that the problem is Schaub are partially right, Matt Schaub does have some glaring deficiencies that show up on game film. However, the people who are arguing that Wade Phillips didn't make any adjustments and basically set us up to fail against a great QB by blitzing him while he torched our blitzes are also right. These things aren't mutually exclusive either and people are arguing like they are. It's on Gary and Wade to make adjustments to their schemes in 2013 to score more points and to hold teams to less points than what we have.

The thing is, there are some really really good young pieces on this defense (Watt, Cushing, Joseph, etc etc) whereas the offense pretty much has to make do with whatever scraps they get in the draft or free agency (If you notice we draft defense early and often, and pay defensive players to come over here, not so much on the offense) so while Wade basically gets all the new and fun toys to play with Gary has to make due with small adjustments and lesser players coming to his side of the ball.

**** a linebacker in the first round or as a high priced FA. I want a goddamn weapon for the offense that can be made use of. Be it a TE who can both BLOCK (sorry Owen Daniels, you are ****ty at blocking) and catch passes, a WR or something like that. This team basically ignores the offense in the offseason and concentrates on infusing the defense with talent, and what did that get us this year? ****ing 40 burgers put on us by any team with a semblance of a decent QB (and Chad Hennee). If that's going to happen with even one of the best D-cords in the game, then we need guys who can run block and catch passes because that's what our team does, we run the ball until the playaction is ready and then we throw it. Even if they picked a QB in the first round I wouldn't be that upset (Depending on what QB they took) but it's been so long since we've picked up a guy who is an actual weapon on offense early in the offseason you see that we can't just scheme our way to 30PPG.

And no, this isn't me saying "get rid of Kevin Walter he's terrible!" because that's pretty much a terrible football opinion, he's just not a #2WR on a good offense.

dream_team
01-14-2013, 12:26 PM
It's weird how we gave up what was it 3 or 4 TD's to Shane Vereen, and never adjusted to him receiving or running the ball. We're obviously not getting rid of Wade Phillips, and we're not getting rid of Matt Schaub so we have to figure out what this team could do to win games. Not give up 41 points? That's a start. Score 30PPG? That's also a place we can start.

The thing is people arguing that the problem is Schaub are partially right, Matt Schaub does have some glaring deficiencies that show up on game film. However, the people who are arguing that Wade Phillips didn't make any adjustments and basically set us up to fail against a great QB by blitzing him while he torched our blitzes are also right. These things aren't mutually exclusive either and people are arguing like they are. It's on Gary and Wade to make adjustments to their schemes in 2013 to score more points and to hold teams to less points than what we have.

The thing is, there are some really really good young pieces on this defense (Watt, Cushing, Joseph, etc etc) whereas the offense pretty much has to make do with whatever scraps they get in the draft or free agency (If you notice we draft defense early and often, and pay defensive players to come over here, not so much on the offense) so while Wade basically gets all the new and fun toys to play with Gary has to make due with small adjustments and lesser players coming to his side of the ball.

**** a linebacker in the first round or as a high priced FA. I want a goddamn weapon for the offense that can be made use of. Be it a TE who can both BLOCK (sorry Owen Daniels, you are ****ty at blocking) and catch passes, a WR or something like that. This team basically ignores the offense in the offseason and concentrates on infusing the defense with talent, and what did that get us this year? ****ing 40 burgers put on us by any team with a semblance of a decent QB (and Chad Hennee). If that's going to happen with even one of the best D-cords in the game, then we need guys who can run block and catch passes because that's what our team does, we run the ball until the playaction is ready and then we throw it. Even if they picked a QB in the first round I wouldn't be that upset (Depending on what QB they took) but it's been so long since we've picked up a guy who is an actual weapon on offense early in the offseason you see that we can't just scheme our way to 30PPG.

And no, this isn't me saying "get rid of Kevin Walter he's terrible!" because that's pretty much a terrible football opinion, he's just not a #2WR on a good offense.

Thank you... finally, someone with a real opinion to help this team succeed... and not just pure hate.

gtexan02
01-14-2013, 12:44 PM
2 things pissed me off about the defense yesterday:

1. They weren't prepared for the quick snap in the red zone. They were all standing around pointing and Vereen walks in for an easy score. That's on Wade, pure and simple. Everyone talks about the quick snap in the red zone. Everyone. Even I knew it was coming. And you aren't prepared for it? Thats garbage. They weren't prepared.

It happened a second time, too, when he caught a pass for a walk in touchdown. They didn't adjust fast enough to presnap movement by the Patriots and there was no one covering him.

2. Playing 10 yards off a guy when he needs 10 yards for the first down. At least 3 times yesterday I saw our players give a cushion and basically sit on the first down marker. When the ball carrier came at the line, he'd get the first down by a ball length because we waited for him to come to us rather than play aggressively. When you are so scared of a big play that you give up 3rd and long conversions it is demoralizing.

CretorFrigg
01-14-2013, 01:31 PM
The funny thing is that if we swap QB with the Broncos , the Texans would still lose the game, only by more.
Manning threw 2 picks, one returned for a TD.
Manning also fumbled the ball a couple of times, one was lost which gave the opponent short field to score a TD.

With All of Schaub's shortcomings, even of you take away the last TD throw by Schaub, the Broncos would have won their game.

How crazy is that?

That's not how comparisons work.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 01:37 PM
Hey, it's a free country. :)

I watched the games and I saw that Schaub could have won the game if he was playing for the Broncos, whereas Peyton would have lost to the Pats if he played for the Texans yesterday the way he played against the Ravens.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 01:47 PM
That's not how comparisons work.
the tv gamefilm sez otherwise.

Rey
01-14-2013, 01:55 PM
Well if they scored 29, alot of things would have gone different. With 5 mins left in the game, the score would be 29-28.

I was playing along. I don't believe in what Ifs like that.

Patriots are a better team and they scored how much they needed to.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 01:57 PM
the tv gamefilm sez otherwise.

Absolutely; it's there in vivid color; it doesn't fool one's eyes nor does it rely on memory. :)

Rey
01-14-2013, 02:02 PM
There's 1 top ten defense still left in the play offs.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 02:14 PM
Absolutely; it's there in vivid color; it doesn't fool one's eyes nor does it rely on memory. :)
you know I was being sarcastic....you certainly can't see the whole game from a tv screen...but you go and kid yourself endlessly.

b0ng
01-14-2013, 02:17 PM
you know I was being sarcastic....you certainly can't see the whole game from a tv screen...but you go and kid yourself endlessly.

You are aware that game film is now available to the public right?

Vinny
01-14-2013, 02:18 PM
You are aware that game film is now available to the public right?sure it is, but he is't watching that...he's watching the tvv right? I've asked him directly.

b0ng
01-14-2013, 02:20 PM
sure it is, but he is't watching that...he's watching the tvv right? I've asked him directly.

He has an account at a place where game film is distributed freely and has posted there as well. I'm pretty sure he's posted stills of game film distributed by the NFL in some of the threads he has made this year.

76Texan
01-14-2013, 02:26 PM
sure it is, but he is't watching that...he's watching the tvv right? I've asked him directly.

I watch the All-22 Film.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 02:28 PM
I watch the All-22 Film.
I've asked before...but consider me learn'd up at this moment in time. Now, stop telling me what I'm seeing. :tiphat:

76Texan
01-14-2013, 02:40 PM
I've asked before...but consider me learn'd up at this moment in time. Now, stop telling me what I'm seeing. :tiphat:

Yessir!

Sometimes I just like to poke fun at people, don't pay no mind to me.

I'm a true pacifist, really !

Vinny
01-14-2013, 02:45 PM
Yessir!

Sometimes I just like to poke fun at people, don't pay no mind to me.

I'm a true pacifist, really !I've been venting a bit since halftime. Go forth and spew young whippersnapper. :runaway: < Kapernicking

AJ-80
01-14-2013, 02:48 PM
There's 1 top ten defense still left in the play offs.
That's an amazing stat. Really tells you that you need explosiveness on offense

Texecutioner
01-14-2013, 03:36 PM
That's an amazing stat. Really tells you that you need explosiveness on offense

I don't think that says a freaking thing. Whomever was stating that top defenses don't have a huge factor isn't looking at history. It's been just as much about top defenses as it has strong QB play. It's been a combination of both.

Steelers have been to 3 SB's and won two in recent years.

Patriots have been to two SB's in recent years and have came up short just barely, but when they had a worse offense and a much better defense they won 3 SB's.The years they lost, they lost to a team that had arguably the best Dline of all time in both post season runs which took out the likes of guys like Rodgers and Brady.

The Saints didn't win a SB with that great offense until they had a great defense.

The Ravens and the Bucs both win SB's with just defense and the Bears went to the SB with Grossman and just defense.

These are just recent years I'm throwing out there.


The constant in all of these SB wins and teams that seem to have consistent success have either a great QB or a great defense.


Plus, I'm not sure what this whole "top 10" defense thing is saying any way. NFL rankings aren't worth the paper their written on. They don't rank teams by points allowed or points scored. They use a ton of different stats and compile them together, but in tons of cases they rank average defenses way up there when they shouldn't be and the same for offenses as well.

Last I checked the Niners are still in this, and they've got one of the best defenses in the entire league.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 03:44 PM
That's an amazing stat. Really tells you that you need explosiveness on offense


It goes back to what Vinny was saying yesterday about how the game is so skewed in favor of the offenses that at this point in time a great offense can often just run roughshod over a great defense, at least by the standards of the recent past. I think we've reached that tipping point where the NFL has started to really look a little like NBA on grass.

When the Patriots get to December it's like they hit a whole other gear. It used to be a defense wins championships league but now the tables have turned and a great offense can run the legs off of any defense eventually.

Rey
01-14-2013, 04:19 PM
It goes back to what Vinny was saying yesterday about how the game is so skewed in favor of the offenses that at this point in time a great offense can often just run roughshod over a great defense, at least by the standards of the recent past. I think we've reached that tipping point where the NFL has started to really look a little like NBA on grass.

When the Patriots get to December it's like they hit a whole other gear. It used to be a defense wins championships league but now the tables have turned and a great offense can run the legs off of any defense eventually.

Yep. But some people are too blind to see how the league has changed.

Get with it or get lost.

If you can't spark up the scoreboard when you need to, you don't stand a chance.

dream_team
01-14-2013, 04:50 PM
Yep. But some people are too blind to see how the league has changed.

Get with it or get lost.

If you can't spark up the scoreboard when you need to, you don't stand a chance.

And guess what, only TWO teams left are top 10 offenses. In fact, the Texans are #7 in offense.

Not to mention the Seahawks were 30 seconds away from making it TWO top 10 defenses, and only one top 10 offense.

I don't think this stat says much.

patsfan13
01-14-2013, 05:02 PM
And guess what, only TWO teams left are top 10 offenses. In fact, the Texans are #7 in offense.

Not to mention the Seahawks were 30 seconds away from making it TWO top 10 defenses, and only one top 10 offense.

I don't think this stat says much.



When people comment Defenses they focus on the stat related to yards allowed, which is not nearly as points allowed. 3 or the 4 teams left are in the top 10 for points allowed. The other (Ravens) is 12 th in points allowed.


When I see the Pats (whose D has improved a lot from the beginning of the season) they have the highest scoring O and highest point differential.

In a lot of games the Pats have a big lead focus on not giving up the big play and trade time for short yards. So a lot of the yards they giving up are in garbage time and achieve the desired result (winning the game).

Points allowed is the measure of the best D's not yards allowed.

dream_team
01-14-2013, 05:20 PM
When people comment Defenses they focus on the stat related to yards allowed, which is not nearly as points allowed. 3 or the 4 teams left are in the top 10 for points allowed. The other (Ravens) is 12 th in points allowed.


When I see the Pats (whose D has improved a lot from the beginning of the season) they have the highest scoring O and highest point differential.

In a lot of games the Pats have a big lead focus on not giving up the big play and trade time for short yards. So a lot of the yards they giving up are in garbage time and achieve the desired result (winning the game).

Points allowed is the measure of the best D's not yards allowed.

I agree. 10 of the top 14 defenses (in terms of points allowed) made the playoffs. All of the teams still in it are in the top 12.

I'm not saying defense is more important than offense... but I don't agree with the notion offense is more important than defense.

Rey
01-14-2013, 06:31 PM
And guess what, only TWO teams left are top 10 offenses. In fact, the Texans are #7 in offense.

Not to mention the Seahawks were 30 seconds away from making it TWO top 10 defenses, and only one top 10 offense.

I don't think this stat says much.

What part of Having the ability to put points up against good teams don't you understand?

Rey
01-14-2013, 06:43 PM
Points allowed is the measure of the best D's not yards allowed.

Incorrect.

There is not really an individual factor you can look at to see the best defenses.

If an offense can hold onto the ball and control top/the flow of the game, they can limit opprotunities for the opposing offense to score. Conversely if your offense absolutely sucks even a good defense might give up td's. If your offense can't move the ball and you are punting and giving the opponent short fields their yardage might not be as high, but their point totals will be.

In the past game, the patriots defense didn't allow 4 field goals. Your special teams played a part in that. If your special teams allows a return to the one yard line and they pound it in from the one, that doesnt mean your defense sucks because they gave up 7 points.

Offense is straight forward. Either you can consistently move the ball and put points up or you can't. Defense has a lot of variables that can come into play.

dream_team
01-14-2013, 06:52 PM
What part of Having the ability to put points up against good teams don't you understand?

Someone posted that only one top 10 defense (according to yards allowed) is left in the playoffs.

All I'm saying is that stat doesn't really say much.

I did not say anything about having the ability to put points up against good teams.

Rey
01-14-2013, 06:55 PM
I agree. 10 of the top 14 defenses (in terms of points allowed) made the playoffs. All of the teams still in it are in the top 12.

I'm not saying defense is more important than offense... but I don't agree with the notion offense is more important than defense.

Yes offense matters more than defense in today's NFL.

There are only 32 teams in the NFL. Being in the top 14 is not what I'd call being a great defense. Top 3 maybe top 5 is where the meat is.

Being in the top half defense wise should be expected if you have a good team. No one is saying you can consistently win games with a bottom feeding defense.

But if you are planning on winning games the way we plan on winning them you shrink your margin for error. We freak out because of the drop pass by Casey and foster...how many dropped passes did welker have? How many off target balls did Brady throw? The reason we freak out is because we know our offense is limited and those kind of opportunities dont come as often. So when we miss that golden opprotunity it stings badly. Small margin for error.


We want to consistent hold opponents to 21 or fewer. If you can't score with the big boys, you are never going to beat them. It's that simple. The defense sucked and needs to get better....but if you can't throw up 35 or so when called upon then you just won't be able to compete.

Hervoyel
01-14-2013, 06:57 PM
When people comment Defenses they focus on the stat related to yards allowed, which is not nearly as points allowed. 3 or the 4 teams left are in the top 10 for points allowed. The other (Ravens) is 12 th in points allowed.


When I see the Pats (whose D has improved a lot from the beginning of the season) they have the highest scoring O and highest point differential.

In a lot of games the Pats have a big lead focus on not giving up the big play and trade time for short yards. So a lot of the yards they giving up are in garbage time and achieve the desired result (winning the game).

Points allowed is the measure of the best D's not yards allowed.

You know, I'd take that one step further and say that neither points or yards completely tells the tale on the Pats season defensively. The Patriots entire approach to the season is different from a lot of teams. It's almost like the first quarter of the regular season is still their preseason. They're making adjustments, making changes, lose a game nobody worries. They've got guys playing who sit for most other teams as a matter of procedure. In New England those guys are getting reps. Middle eight games New England starts to come together and seems to focus on making sure they're in the postseason. They jump all over their division opponents (who are by and large pretty bad) and win their division. Last 4 games it goes into overdrive. I'd almost say that the Patriots start playing playoff football 4 weeks before the regular season ends. By the time they get to the postseason they're focused on destroying their 2 playoff opponents and getting to the Super Bowl.

Now that may seem off topic but my point is that they're seeing these statistics that we all hang our collective hats on in an entirely different way than the Houston Texans do. Where they finish doesn't seem all that important to Belechick as long as by the end of the year when it matters they're holding people down and taking their lunch money. It's really a thing of beauty to look at. Start out looking like you've lost a step, finish up looking like your defense found the fountain of youth. It's impressive and very smart. Getting out to an early start is nice but the season is a marathon not a sprint.

toronto
01-14-2013, 07:02 PM
It goes back to what Vinny was saying yesterday about how the game is so skewed in favor of the offenses that at this point in time a great offense can often just run roughshod over a great defense, at least by the standards of the recent past. I think we've reached that tipping point where the NFL has started to really look a little like NBA on grass.

When the Patriots get to December it's like they hit a whole other gear. It used to be a defense wins championships league but now the tables have turned and a great offense can run the legs off of any defense eventually.

When we look back in this era 20 years from now I suspect we will be calling their QB the greatest QB of all time. He's pretty much there. 5 SBs, 3 wins, and maybe one more coming, with no real end in sight. He seems as hungry as he was in 2002!

patsfan13
01-14-2013, 07:47 PM
Incorrect.

There is not really an individual factor you can look at to see the best defenses.

If an offense can hold onto the ball and control top/the flow of the game, they can limit opprotunities for the opposing offense to score. Conversely if your offense absolutely sucks even a good defense might give up td's. If your offense can't move the ball and you are punting and giving the opponent short fields their yardage might not be as high, but their point totals will be.

In the past game, the patriots defense didn't allow 4 field goals. Your special teams played a part in that. If your special teams allows a return to the one yard line and they pound it in from the one, that doesnt mean your defense sucks because they gave up 7 points.

Offense is straight forward. Either you can consistently move the ball and put points up or you can't. Defense has a lot of variables that can come into play.



Over the course of the season pts allowed will even out all the noise like a poor ST play or 2.


Teams like the Pats (and the Parcells Giant's for example) play a bend don't break D, the theory being that if yo make someone take 12-15+ plays on a drive there is a good chance the O will make a mistake, penalty sack, ect that will end the drive.

We knew the Pas D wasn't playing well early in the season because of all the big plays they were given up, that was not the case when the Secondary was revamped.

Another D stat that is far more important than yards allowed is Turnovers. the Stats on chances of winning based on turnover differential are amazing.

If you choose to take a simplistic view of D performance be my guest.

Rey
01-14-2013, 07:54 PM
Over the course of the season pts allowed will even out all the noise like a poor ST play or 2.

A poor ST play or two is fine, but there is a such thing as having a consistently bad special teams in case you didn't know. Ours was poor for most of the year.

And you are the one taking a simplistic view. I clearly said there are a bunch of factors involved while you're convinced there's just one...points allowed...Not even sure what the hell you're talking about with that. Reading comprehension isn't that tough. Simplistic is the exact opposite of what I said.

patsfan13
01-14-2013, 07:57 PM
You know, I'd take that one step further and say that neither points or yards completely tells the tale on the Pats season defensively. The Patriots entire approach to the season is different from a lot of teams. It's almost like the first quarter of the regular season is still their preseason. They're making adjustments, making changes, lose a game nobody worries. They've got guys playing who sit for most other teams as a matter of procedure. In New England those guys are getting reps. Middle eight games New England starts to come together and seems to focus on making sure they're in the postseason. They jump all over their division opponents (who are by and large pretty bad) and win their division. Last 4 games it goes into overdrive. I'd almost say that the Patriots start playing playoff football 4 weeks before the regular season ends. By the time they get to the postseason they're focused on destroying their 2 playoff opponents and getting to the Super Bowl.

Now that may seem off topic but my point is that they're seeing these statistics that we all hang our collective hats on in an entirely different way than the Houston Texans do. Where they finish doesn't seem all that important to Belechick as long as by the end of the year when it matters they're holding people down and taking their lunch money. It's really a thing of beauty to look at. Start out looking like you've lost a step, finish up looking like your defense found the fountain of youth. It's impressive and very smart. Getting out to an early start is nice but the season is a marathon not a sprint.





You are correct BB like to tell his team the season begins at Thanksgiving.

This year was very unique, if you look at the core of the Pats D it is very young, almost all of the players are from the 2009-2012 drafts.

This year we have a number of rookies playing starting roles/big minutes this year.

The other thing that happened is that the Secondary was transformed over the course of the season after getting shredded early. People were aware of the Talib addition, but that triggered a domino effect, the most important was McCourty taking over the FS role from Chung who is good against the run but a horrible against the pas as a safety. The other was Dennard emerging as a good press corner, (he slipped from the first to seventh round for punching a cop) this allowed Arrington who isn't good on the outside to move to a slot CB in the nickle where he plays quite well. These changes have transformed the secondary.

You are also correct that the NFL season isn't a sprint, actually I like to think of it as a war of attrition. I read a few years ago that the Pats had more guys making a million+ than any other team in the league IOW they have a large middle class of role players who can fill in when a starter gets injured.

Of course having the guy who (IMO) will be regarded as the GOAT at QB doesn't hurt. I am enjoying it while it lasts I have been following this team for 50 years and will never have it this good again.

patsfan13
01-14-2013, 08:01 PM
A poor ST play or two is fine, but there is a such thing as having a consistently bad special teams in case you didn't know. Ours was poor for most of the year.

And you are the one taking a simplistic view. I clearly said there are a bunch of factors involved while you're convinced there's just one. Not even sure what the hell you're talking about with that. Reading comprehension isn't that tough.


The game is about scoring more points than the other team not about allowing the fewest yards.

You may even prefer allowing a FG in garbage time in exchange for a 7 min drive when up by 2+ scores for example.

Sorry no one explained this to you.

IF I had a team that gave up say 500 yards a game but due to turnovers and allowing only FG's and no touchdowns, then averaged 12 pts per game allowed, you would say that was a great D, I exaggerate of course but hopefully you will get the point.

thunderkyss
01-16-2013, 07:30 AM
I don't think that says a freaking thing. Whomever was stating that top defenses don't have a huge factor isn't looking at history. It's been just as much about top defenses as it has strong QB play. It's been a combination of both.


We haven't seen it yet this year, but most defenses find a way to step it up in the post season. Even teams with poor defenses during the regular season generally surprise people in the play offs.

Every team is 0-0 to start the play offs & all the stats get thrown out the window.

Atlanta's defense is the one to watch, they played amazing in the first half of the SeaHawks game. If they can put that together to start the NFC Championship game, they may take Kaepernick out of the game early.