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View Full Version : More people noticing Kubiaks Conservative play calling...


EllisUnit
01-09-2013, 06:46 AM
Atleast it isnt just the fans who are noticing this. You want to win then you have to take some shots, Kubiaks confidence dont leave me feeling to confident about the New England game !!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/46122/texans-need-to-throw-into-the-end-zone


The first two questions Gary Kubiak fielded at his Monday news conference were about the team’s red zone offense.

In each answer, he mentioned checking the ball down.

First: "We had a lot of second-and-nines down there from that standpoint, but we got to make the small plays whether you check a ball down on a three or four-yard pass. You’ve got to do that so you’re giving yourself a legitimate chance."

A chance at what? A closer field goal?

Second: "We got played the other day in a bunch of quarters defense, people sitting on the goal line makes it tough to get behind people, those types of things. If people are going to play you that way, you got to run the ball efficiently. You’ve got to check the ball down efficiently."


Houston QB Matt Schaub and coach Gary Kubiak will each need to be aggressive in order to defeat New England on Sunday.If you're already in field goal range, what's the benefit of super-efficient checking down, exactly? To prove to a defense you know how to answer the coverage they are calling to keep you out of the end zone by calling plays that keep you out of the end zone?

I'm confused.

Fred
01-09-2013, 07:10 AM
Message to anyone who is just now noticing this: Congratulations on coming out of your coma! After more than 6 years we were worried about you!

Lucky
01-09-2013, 07:30 AM
Noticing is one thing. Hearing Kubiak admit to it is another. What he is saying with these play calls is that he doesn't trust Schaub to throw into tight coverage. That's okay against the Bengals. But Kubiak has to give Schaub a chance to succeed (or fail) against the Patriots. Playing not to lose won't work this Sunday.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 08:39 AM
Noticing is one thing. Hearing Kubiak admit to it is another. What he is saying with these play calls is that he doesn't trust Schaub to throw into tight coverage. That's okay against the Bengals. But Kubiak has to give Schaub a chance to succeed (or fail) against the Patriots. Playing not to lose won't work this Sunday.

I think what this says, is that there is a reason that fans are fans & newspaper writers are newspaper writers.

If he's saying that we are checking down, that tells you he didn't call a run play (which isn't a bad thing when you've got the best goal line back in the league on your team). He's saying, "I called a pass play to attack the end zone, but Matt was scared. I love my QB & I'm working on his confidence issues, so I'm going to fall on the sword & make it sound like I agreed with his decision to check out of the play I called, or to throw the ball to a guy that has no chance to get into the end zone (or in this case, Arian Foster who has had some success down there). I'm the same Mofo who ran the score up on people when I had Jake Plummer as my QB, people 3itched about it then but this is what it is in this league."

gafftop
01-09-2013, 08:50 AM
Noticing is one thing. Hearing Kubiak admit to it is another. What he is saying with these play calls is that he doesn't trust Schaub to throw into tight coverage. That's okay against the Bengals. But Kubiak has to give Schaub a chance to succeed (or fail) against the Patriots. Playing not to lose won't work this Sunday.

Kubiak knows Matt the best. I think he understands Matt can't make the throws he needs to make in the red zone. Matt is too slow on his release, does not have the zip on his pass and maybe his touch is not that great. Everything is compressed and happens quicker in the red zone. Normally you will not have a guy 5 to 10 yards wide open. Many of the passes he completes the receiver is wide open. I don't think it may be just accuracy as much as quick release with accuracy and zip that may be a bigger problem in the red zone. Matt is Matt not trying to bash.

amazing80
01-09-2013, 08:57 AM
Great read, great stats and hopefully we can change up our game plan to account for more TDs. 3's wont win this one for us.

HJam72
01-09-2013, 09:02 AM
Think about the interception throw that was, I believe, supposed to go to OD. This was the interception very near the EZ where the announcer said Schaub should've checked down to Arian Foster, because he would have gotten a first down, and, given it's Foster, might've even scored. I believe that's the kind of thing Kubiak is talking about here. It's unusual for Schaub to take unwise risks, but that's exactly what he did on that play, and it cost him big.

I think these writers are picking the wrong time to complain about something that might actually be a legitimate complaint. I'm not jumping on THIS bandwagon.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Fans are fans; news reporters are news reporters.

That's exactly what it is! :swatter:

On top of that, fans (a majority of them at least) buy into the things these reporters write.

The machine keeps feeding itself. :fingergun:

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 09:56 AM
On top of that, fans (a majority of them at least) buy into the things these reporters write.


Worse yet, when Mike Mayock or Ron Jaworski says something during the game (& it's not just those two, it's all of them) they take it as gospel.

They'll say things like, "Peyton stared down his receiver." & people will believe it. When in fact, Peyton is trying to move the safety. If the safety doesn't move, Peyton is going to take that shot. It'll look like he stared him down, but it's not the same as Christian Ponder waiting for his receiver to get open.

Or they'll say, "Kareem Jackson was late getting over, he's going to have to do a better job than that." when Kareem wasn't even supposed to be there. Demps let the guy run past him & Kareem was just trying to help.

The most recent one, the guys on play-book saying that Kevin Walter was wide open on the play Matt threw the pick 6. Walter was still in his route when Schaub decided to throw the football. Of course Walter is wide open, everybody is running to where the football went.

:vincepalm:

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 10:06 AM
After rewatching the NE game last night I am alot more confident Kubiak had the right game plan on offense last time. We threw the ball alot early on and moved the ball pretty damn good in that first half.

And ironically, as that article implies we need to throw in endzone more... Schaub should have never forced that ball into double coverage instead checking down to Foster for a likely 7. We need to do a better job of getting the ball to Foster in the passing game this time around. It was there all night.

dc_txtech
01-09-2013, 10:10 AM
After rewatching the NE game last night I am alot more confident Kubiak had the right game plan on offense last time. We threw the ball alot early on and moved the ball pretty damn good in that first half.

And ironically, as that article implies we need to throw in endzone more... Schaub should have never forced that ball into double coverage instead checking down to Foster for a likely 7. We need to do a better job of getting the ball to Foster in the passing game this time around. It was there all night.

Agreed. Rewatching the game it didn't seem nearly as lopsided as it did the first time. Penalties absolutely killed any momentum we tried to get going and a few bounces of the ball just didn't go our way. Dropped passes on 3rd downs played a factor as well.

The Watt forced fumble summed up the game for me, force a fumble in the RZ only for it to be recovered by NE 10 yards up the field for a TD.

:wadepalm:

badboy
01-09-2013, 10:16 AM
Solution to Red Zone woes: score TD before you get to Red Zone.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 10:18 AM
After rewatching the NE game last night I am alot more confident Kubiak had the right game plan on offense last time. We threw the ball alot early on and moved the ball pretty damn good in that first half.

And ironically, as that article implies we need to throw in endzone more... Schaub should have never forced that ball into double coverage instead checking down to Foster for a likely 7. We need to do a better job of getting the ball to Foster in the passing game this time around. It was there all night.

For the half, our pass/run ratio was 25/13 as compared to 19/11 for the Pats.

We threw into the end zone (the INT, LOL).
How can they say it was a conservative game plan?

76Texan
01-09-2013, 10:21 AM
Duplicate

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 10:26 AM
And ironically, as that article implies we need to throw in endzone more... Schaub should have never forced that ball into double coverage...

I don't agree with this, McCourty made a heck of a play. He was near the sideline, covering on top another receiver. When the ball went in the air, he broke on it. But he was not "double-covering" Walter.

The throw could have been better... I don't think Matt could have thrown a better ball, he doesn't have the arm. But I think most QBs would have made that throw & McCourty still makes that play, maybe not an interception, against an elite arm.

For the half, our pass/run ratio was 25/13 as compared to 19/11 for the Pats.

We threw into the end zone (the INT, LOL).
How can they say it was a conservative game plan?

Because we lost.

Like you mentioned in another thread, this kind of thing will feed on itself until we win by 80 points or something.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 10:35 AM
I don't agree with this, McCourty made a heck of a play. He was near the sideline, covering on top another receiver. When the ball went in the air, he broke on it. But he was not "double-covering" Walter.

The throw could have been better... I don't think Matt could have thrown a better ball, he doesn't have the arm. But I think most QBs would have made that throw & McCourty still makes that play, maybe not an interception, against an elite arm.



Because we lost.

Like you mentioned in another thread, this kind of thing will feed on itself until we win by 80 points or something.

The old adage, hind sight is always 20/20 eh? While I agree this was simply more of a good play by McCourty but I dont recall Schaub having the velocity needed to get the better of that situation, imo... when Foster is that wide open and secondary comits deep... you almost always give it to your playmaker.

tedr
01-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Kubiak knows Matt the best. I think he understands Matt can't make the throws he needs to make in the red zone. Matt is too slow on his release, does not have the zip on his pass and maybe his touch is not that great. Everything is compressed and happens quicker in the red zone. Normally you will not have a guy 5 to 10 yards wide open. Many of the passes he completes the receiver is wide open. I don't think it may be just accuracy as much as quick release with accuracy and zip that may be a bigger problem in the red zone. Matt is Matt not trying to bash.

I think you're right...that said, why in the world would we give that much on an extension to a QB with those issues?

deucetx
01-09-2013, 11:01 AM
For the half, our pass/run ratio was 25/13 as compared to 19/11 for the Pats.

We threw into the end zone (the INT, LOL).
How can they say it was a conservative game plan?

Most likely because more goes into the 'conservative' gameplan than how many passes were thrown. The Patriots threw 14 passes that were 10+ yards. We threw 8. And since they were up big and early you would think that would be switched around.

In any case, not even sure why you guys are responding to the article talking about the previous Patriots game. They questioned Kubiak about being so conservative in the game against the Bengals and article author is talking about how being conservative in the redzone is playing into the hands of the defense.

So how exactly is he wrong? In the redzone two things are on the defenses mind. Get the ball back or force a field goal. That was the authors point. Checking down in the redzone is pointless is what he's saying. It is being overly conservative and doing exactly what the defense wants. So his point is you have to be a bit more aggressive to be the likes of the Patriots. Now of course there are times to do so but he is talking about how CONSISTENTLY the Texans did it.

Plus, again reporters were right. We were conservative against the Bengals and it did seem he was trying to protect Schaub. We threw a whopping THREE passes over 10 yards. And of course zero over 20 yards.

GP
01-09-2013, 11:02 AM
I think you're right...that said, why in the world would we give that much on an extension to a QB with those issues?

You're asking questions that cause trouble.

EllisUnit
01-09-2013, 11:07 AM
Think about the interception throw that was, I believe, supposed to go to OD. This was the interception very near the EZ where the announcer said Schaub should've checked down to Arian Foster, because he would have gotten a first down, and, given it's Foster, might've even scored. I believe that's the kind of thing Kubiak is talking about here. It's unusual for Schaub to take unwise risks, but that's exactly what he did on that play, and it cost him big.

I think these writers are picking the wrong time to complain about something that might actually be a legitimate complaint. I'm not jumping on THIS bandwagon.

Funny thing is AF was wide open on that play, usually when he checks down the guy is covered and we're lucky to gain 2 or 3 from it. But for the most part I agree this dinking and dunking in the redzone has not been getting it done. Especially lately, but if u look at earlier in the season most of schaubs TDs were thrown from outside the RZ for 20 plus yard TDs. Haven't seen that as of late due to him looking a little scared and always checking down.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 11:09 AM
The old adage, hind sight is always 20/20 eh? While I agree this was simply more of a good play by McCourty but I dont recall Schaub having the velocity needed to get the better of that situation, imo... when Foster is that wide open and secondary comits deep... you almost always give it to your playmaker.

I mentioned this back then after the loss.

It looks like Schaub was counting on McCourty to keep an eye on Foster for a fraction longer.
There was nobody on Foster.
Not to mention that AJ was also on the other side.
All of the guys up front came in on the 5-man blitz.

It's just too bad that Schaub looked right first.
If he had looked left first (toward AJ), McCourty most definitely would have been late.

deucetx
01-09-2013, 11:12 AM
And let's just add this. Being conservative is not a bad thing so why folks are defensive over it I have no clue. It's about choosing when to be conservative and when not to be that is the question for this offense.

Just like the other day I saw posts 'Folks want us to fling it around like the Saints!' No, many don't. What they want is for this team to know that there are times they need to be capable of executing something more than the 'conservative' play. The fact that many of us groan on a 3rd and 8+ speaks volumes about this. Why are we throwing so many passes short of the first down marker? It would be more understandable if we had more playmakers getting the ball for YAC but we don't have that. Or at least they aren't playing as much except for Dre and Foster.

Why are we almost constantly checking down in the redzone to settle for fieldgoals. Things of this nature. It's why I said in one post I would want the offense more flexible. Not about passing it 30-40 times a game. Just to where we have playmakers and can actual have a 3rd and 10 and say 'Okay, let's go get this damn thing. No problem.' By all means be conservative. Run it down the throats. Play ballhawking defense. But when it's time to pass, be capable of actually doing it for more than five yards.

gafftop
01-09-2013, 12:16 PM
I think you're right...that said, why in the world would we give that much on an extension to a QB with those issues?

Whole other issue. I think it has been discussed somewhere.

gtexan02
01-09-2013, 12:22 PM
Ive noticed a goal of the Texans has been to throw to someone short of the distance marker and then rely on them to make people miss.

In the past, Foster and AJ were able to get great YAC even in short yardage situations. This year, they both seem to be going down more quickly. I don't think has to do with them so much as defenses are now giving up the catch and focusing on making the quick tackle. Kubiak has to account for the fact that his strategy isn't working and adopt something new.



Kubiak plays a numbers game. Its the same reason we almost always see a draw on 3rd and long. 3 points in the red zone, to him, is better than going for 7. The reason is because going for 7 carries with it the chance that we turn the ball over. A turnover is not only zero points, but frequently turns into 7 for the other team. So he's viewing "3 is > -7." Like the writer said, its going to work against the Bengals, but not against the Patriots. We need to score points

76Texan
01-09-2013, 12:23 PM
Most likely because more goes into the 'conservative' gameplan than how many passes were thrown. The Patriots threw 14 passes that were 10+ yards. We threw 8. And since they were up big and early you would think that would be switched around.

In any case, not even sure why you guys are responding to the article talking about the previous Patriots game. They questioned Kubiak about being so conservative in the game against the Bengals and article author is talking about how being conservative in the redzone is playing into the hands of the defense.

So how exactly is he wrong? In the redzone two things are on the defenses mind. Get the ball back or force a field goal. That was the authors point. Checking down in the redzone is pointless is what he's saying. It is being overly conservative and doing exactly what the defense wants. So his point is you have to be a bit more aggressive to be the likes of the Patriots. Now of course there are times to do so but he is talking about how CONSISTENTLY the Texans did it.

Plus, again reporters were right. We were conservative against the Bengals and it did seem he was trying to protect Schaub. We threw a whopping THREE passes over 10 yards. And of course zero over 20 yards.
I'm gonna dig deeper into the Pats and the Bengals games later.

Right now I just finished tallying the pass attempts inside the redzone/endzone Schaub vs the rest of the NFL in the whole regular season.

You will be very surprised when I make the post, I promise you that.

Donnieman
01-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Atleast it isnt just the fans who are noticing this. You want to win then you have to take some shots, Kubiaks confidence dont leave me feeling to confident about the New England game !!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/46122/texans-need-to-throw-into-the-end-zone

You know what would make all the difference in Red Zone rushing?
A BADASS fullback like Leach.:tiphat:

gtexan02
01-09-2013, 12:29 PM
You know what would make all the difference in Red Zone rushing?
A BADASS fullback like Leach.:tiphat:

Foster scored 15 rushing TDs this year, only 1 off from his personal record

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Foster scored 15 rushing TDs this year, only 1 off from his personal record

No doubt. The O-line has done a great job near goal line this year. Even if the running game is not going as planned, we always seem to still punch it in when we get it close. Against NE, the interior O-line had great immediate push in the Foster TD.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 01:09 PM
I think you're right...that said, why in the world would we give that much on an extension to a QB with those issues?

Because Kubiak has absolute & complete confidence in Matt Schaub's ability as a quarterback. Just because he has had a string of bad games. & he hasn't played particularly well all season long doesn't make Matt a "bad" QB.

We've been debating his borderline elite status for at least 3 years here on this board, so he must have been doing something well. These screen shots & commentators coming out showing you that Schaub has had receivers open down field but chose to check it down should be evidence that Kubiak has faith in him, but Schaub is the one lacking confidence.

Kubiak isn't calling for Matt to check it down. The radio in his helmet goes silent a few seconds before the snap. Matt is making those decisions on his own.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 01:14 PM
Plus, again reporters were right. We were conservative against the Bengals and it did seem he was trying to protect Schaub. We threw a whopping THREE passes over 10 yards. And of course zero over 20 yards.

You're feeding into the nonsense. Kubiak calls the plays, he doesn't tell Matt where to throw it. Matt has options. Matt chooses not to throw the ball over 10 yards.

Unless you have evidence that we had no receivers run past 10 yards down the field more than 3 times, this has nothing to do with Kubiak.

mridge01
01-09-2013, 01:33 PM
Fans are fans; news reporters are news reporters.

That's exactly what it is! :swatter:

On top of that, fans (a majority of them at least) buy into the things these reporters write.

The machine keeps feeding itself. :fingergun:

Dude, if you can't see with your own human eyes the Texans' problems on offense, then you are in denial.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 01:35 PM
Why are we almost constantly checking down in the redzone to settle for fieldgoals. Things of this nature. It's why I said in one post I would want the offense more flexible. Not about passing it 30-40 times a game. Just to where we have playmakers and can actual have a 3rd and 10 and say 'Okay, let's go get this damn thing. No problem.' By all means be conservative. Run it down the throats. Play ballhawking defense. But when it's time to pass, be capable of actually doing it for more than five yards.

The first play in the Patriots game was an Arian Foster run for 12 yards. They flagged us for the illegal formation, negating the run & putting us in 1 & 15

We handed the ball off to Arian & he picked up 15 yards & the first down.

On our second drive, we got to 3rd & 12. Schaub in the gun, he completed a pass to LeStar Jean for 24 yards, no YAC.

That's just one example, there were many in the Bengals game.

I'm having difficulty understanding what is being meant by being "conservative" because he's been calling exactly the game you are describing.

Now, the Bengals' game. If we get into the redzone & can't score a TD in 3 downs, the right call is to kick the field goal. We were dominating that game on both sides of the ball. They had a total of 39 yards at the half & -15 yards passing.

If we were playing the Patriots we'd have considered ourselves lucky, but take the chance to go for it on 4th & 3 from their 4 yard line. The first field goal, 4th & 2 from their 30.... not a smart move to go for it there.

I know everyone thinks they are smarter than Gary Kubiak & he doesn't understand that we can't beat New England with field goals, but we weren't playing New England & we were in complete control of that game.

Even at the end, had they scored a TD with 4 minutes left, we would have marched down the field & kicked a field goal to win it. We took knees with almost 2 minutes left in the game.

Mailman
01-09-2013, 02:06 PM
When Kubiak talks about playing smart football with the checkdowns, I think he's referring to the numerous times in the first game at Gillette where the offensive scheme generally worked but Schaub threw the ball elsewhere and tried to make more difficult throws rather than taking what the Pats left wide open.

The issue isn't the aggressiveness of the playcalling, it's smart execution by the quarterback. Too often in that curbstomping the Patriots put on us on MNF, Schaub missed a totally undefended Arian Foster, and it wasn't just that interception in the end zone. Foster leaked out into the flat many times in the first half in situations where the Pats tried to blitz or entice forced throws into their zone coverage, and Schaub failed to make the smart checkdown to Foster when he usually had ten yards of open field all around him. Granted, those plays won't usually go for scores or big plays, but they're big enough to keep moving the chains and resetting the down markers. The Patriots want to keep everything in front of their defense for the most part, but they leave a lot of open field to exploit in the expectation that they can bait the opposing quarterback into making a mistake.

If Schaub plays clean and uses Foster to catch a lot of passes to take pressure off him, the Texans can keep Brady on the sideline and the game score close.

mussop
01-09-2013, 02:26 PM
After listening to Schaub on the radio the other day it's obvious he is being overly cautious. He was asked about the red zone offense, in particular one possession in the Cinci game (can't remember the specifics but basically) where it was 3rd and goal from the 9 (?) , and he threw a check down that was stopped short.

His response blew my mind. I cant remember his exact words but he basically said in that situation it was better to throw the ball to the check down and let him try and get to the end zone that way if he failed they could at least get a field goal.

I wish someone would post a link to that podcast. I tried but can't find it. It was really disappointing to hear him act as if he didn't want to take any chances. Like he wanted to rely on the other guys to get it done.

I'll say this, that mentality isn't going to get it done in NE.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 02:38 PM
After listening to Schaub on the radio the other day it's obvious he is being overly cautious. He was asked about the red zone offense, in particular one possession in the Cinci game (can't remember the specifics but basically) where it was 3rd and goal from the 9 (?) , and he threw a check down that was stopped short.

His response blew my mind. I cant remember his exact words but he basically said in that situation it was better to throw the ball to the check down and let him try and get to the end zone that way if he failed they could at least get a field goal.

I wish someone would post a link to that podcast.

I googled "Houston Texans Podcasts" Here's the page (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/houston-texans-official-podcast/id279409851) for most of them. The statement you're talking about is the last Matt Schaub show.

I felt the exact same as you after listening myself.

His, "That was the best anyone could do" attitude was what really ticked me off. I'd have much rather have heard something that made me believe he knows there are situations when you have to create, instead of just taking what the defense gives you & that he's the guy that needs to be doing the creating, instead of Andre or Foster.

Mailman
01-09-2013, 02:49 PM
If you guys are complaining about that one specific play, you are overreacting. Schaub is right. I have not heard the interview so I can't speak to how he answered the question, but I've watched that 3rd and 9 play a few times and there was NOBODY open except Walter in the middle of the field, just a couple yards shy of the first down, and Foster leaking out in the flat after chipping a defender. Cincinnati did a great job of playing tight, disciplined coverage. I initially was upset that Schaub didn't try and get the ball to Andre but the camera shot from behind the LOS showed why: he was tightly covered and a forced throw in the corner of the end zone to AJ risked a 100yd pick 6.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 02:49 PM
I googled "Houston Texans Podcasts" Here's the page (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/houston-texans-official-podcast/id279409851) for most of them. The statement you're talking about is the last Matt Schaub show.

I felt the exact same as you after listening myself.

His, "That was the best anyone could do" attitude was what really ticked me off. I'd have much rather have heard something that made me believe he knows there are situations when you have to create, instead of just taking what the defense gives you & that he's the guy that needs to be doing the creating, instead of Andre or Foster.

I think the way he said it can easily be miscontrued by listeners.

Just be patient and wait for my posts about Schaub in the red zone vs the rest of the NFL.

Coming shortly.

eriadoc
01-09-2013, 02:51 PM
I mentioned this back then after the loss.

It looks like Schaub was counting on McCourty to keep an eye on Foster for a fraction longer.
There was nobody on Foster.
Not to mention that AJ was also on the other side.
All of the guys up front came in on the 5-man blitz.

It's just too bad that Schaub looked right first.
If he had looked left first (toward AJ), McCourty most definitely would have been late.

It's just too bad, huh? Damn the bad luck! No skill at the QB position could have possibly resulted in a different outcome.

That IS too bad.

Mailman
01-09-2013, 03:05 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/10/ruva5yse.jpg

Where's Schaub supposed to go but the middle of the field to Walter? Atkins brought the heavy pressure, forcing Schaub to step up in the pocket and get rid of the ball. I think he was looking to get the ball to either AJ in the end zone or OD at the marker on the same sideline but Atkins blew that play up, which didn't allow enough time for those routes to develop. OD ran his route inside, then planted his foot to go back to the sideline but didn't have enough time to separate from the LB coverage.

Texn4life
01-09-2013, 03:11 PM
I don't mind the dinking and dunking if we're doing it on first down to get ahead of the chains. It just seems like we aren't having a ton of success on first down running the ball, and thats what is causing most of our problems down there. The aggressiveness I'd like to see is changing up our first down calls.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:12 PM
In 2012, Schaub had 53 attempts in the red zone.

He threw for 14 TDs and 2 INTs.

14/53 = 26.42% of the attempts went into the endzone and resulted in a TD

16/53 = 30.19%, (taking account the 2 INTs) of his attempts went into the endzone.


The rest of the league had 2,125 attempts.

They had 496 TDs and 53 Ints.

496/2,125 = 23.34% of the attempts went into the endzone and resulted in a TD.

549/2,125 = 25.84% (inlcuding INTs)

As we can see here, on these two aspects, Schaub had attempted more passes into the endzone (as a percentage of pass attempts) than the average of the league (about 5% more of the time.)

This does not take into account passes thrown into the endzone that resulted in incompletions or the time a QB was sacked while attempting to do so.

We'll get to that a little later.

To say that the Texans had Schaub not throwing into the endzone is incorrect.

Yes, the Texans did run a lot in the redzone (because they can).
But when they did pass, they weren't shy about going for six points.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:14 PM
It's just too bad, huh? Damn the bad luck! No skill at the QB position could have possibly resulted in a different outcome.

That IS too bad.

Each play is called with its own read progression for the QB.

They are grilled to do just that.

You don't wait until after the snap to decide where to look first.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:23 PM
I will have a series of posts detailing in all the pass attempts by Schaub in the redzone.

I omit some of TD passes as they have already been counted.

All the stats I had on the above post can be obtained with the "Game Play Finder" feature at ProFootball Reference .com (I had mentioned this several times already.)

I don't have time to count the sacks and the attempts into the endzone (resulting in incompletions) that other QBs took.

I can only go with Schaub; I think it's enough to show that, additionally, there were plenty of plays called for him to go for six.

(Again, as a percentage of total pass attempts.)

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:25 PM
Dolphins

2nd quarter, 7:23
1st and 12 (after a false start) at the Dolphins 12
Matt Schaub pass incomplete short left intended for James Casey
PA pass; Dolphins end man didn't bite the PAS fake and chased after Schaub.
He couldn't wait and had to get rid of the ball.

Next play
Matt Schaub sacked by Randy Starks for -8 yards
Schaub was setting up and waiting to see if Walter can get open in the endzone;
Starks beat Wade Smith too quickly, however.


4th qtr, 12:31
3rd and 1 at Miami 1
Matt Schaub pass incomplete short left intended for Owen Daniels
Fade pass by Schaub into the endzone.
Schaub couldn't step into the throw and sailed the ball high.

(Schaub threw a 14yd TD to AJ just on 1st and 10 from the Dolphins 14 just before halftime.)

deucetx
01-09-2013, 03:26 PM
You're feeding into the nonsense. Kubiak calls the plays, he doesn't tell Matt where to throw it. Matt has options. Matt chooses not to throw the ball over 10 yards.

Unless you have evidence that we had no receivers run past 10 yards down the field more than 3 times, this has nothing to do with Kubiak.

So do you have evidence for your point? I mean you're going to ask someone for evidence to prove a point then you have some for yours...right? Though in the end it doesn't matter who is blame because neither are going anywhere. I would just like to see it fixed. And of course it will still have something to do with Kubiak. He leads the team and is the coach with a hands-on approach to the offense. It's rarely just a one person issue.

Just like your examples for the Patriots game I can throw some that go the other direction. A 3rd and 9 where Dre is hit for 8 yards. A 3rd and long where Jean is hit for 7 yards. It goes both ways and that is the problem. We don't push the field in these situations in a consistent manner. I remember one Bengals play that frustrated me where most of the targets ran a pattern below the first down marker. Kind of makes it easy on the safety when there is only one receiver deep (intermediate really). He has little to think about so that one option will not be open.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Jaguars

1st qtr, 9:34
Matt Schaub pass incomplete short middle intended for Arian Foster
Pressure came quickly; Schaub basically threw the ball away.

You can't ask Schaub to go into the endzone here.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:28 PM
Broncos

2nd qtr, 11:41
Matt Schaub pass incomplete (defended by Elvis Dumervil)
Play action pass.
Schaub wanted to throw to AJ in the back of the end zone, but Dummerville came too quickly.


(Schaub threw a 3yd TD pass to Foster on 3rd and 3 from the Broncos 3 in the second qtr
and a 14yd TD to OD on 2nd and 10 from the Broncos 14 toward the end of the third.)

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:29 PM
Titans

1st qtr, 1:36
3rd and 1 at Titans 13
Matt Schaub pass complete short right to Keshawn Martin for 2 yards (tackled by Ryan Mouton).
With two defender boring on him, Schaub completed a pass to Martin for a first down.

deucetx
01-09-2013, 03:29 PM
76Texan, man those are nice stats as I love getting the numbers and all but the truth is the issues are as of late. Not earlier in the season. Not even mid-point. The offense began wavering probably after the Patriots game.

For example, the last 3 games of the year the Texans scored 25% touchdowns in the redzone putting them in the bottom quarter of the league in this category. The team we're about to face? The Patriots scored touchdowns 81.82% in the redzone. So instead of killing yourself going all the way back to game one you should just focus on what has happened lately. Heh, then again you just may enjoy it and if so, more power to ya man.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Jets

2nd qtr 0:14
1st and 9 at Jets 9
Matt Schaub pass incomplete short left intended for Owen Daniels.
Pressure came right on top of him, Schaub got rid of the ball to save time since it's nearly the end of the half.

Next play with 9 seconds left in the half, Schaub tried to get the ball to AJ in the deep left corner, but the ball just sailed on him high.
He couldn't wait any longer because a DT was about to get to him
(It had already been 5 seconds from the snap; the ball left his hand with 4 seconds left in the half and the play was whistled over with 2 seconds left.)

If he takes a sack here, there's no FG as time would run out.

With 2 seconds left and a 7-pt lead, the Texans kicked a FG.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:37 PM
GB

3rd qtr, 1:50
1st and 10
Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for Andre Johnson.
Deep fade into the endzone with ball right off AJ's fingertips.
This was due to the CB playing well and physical; the ball was thrown right where it needed to be.

Next play, 2nd and 10.
Matt Schaub pass complete short middle to Keshawn Martin for 12 yards (tackle by Morgan Burnett)
Schaub led Martin very well.
Even though it was a short pass, Martin had plenty of room to run.
Only the double tackles (2 guys) swerved Martin to one side, such that his knee touched the ground just before he can surge into the end zone.
(This play doesn't count as a pass into the endzone, but it is worth mentioning.)

4th qtr, 7:33
Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep left intended for Keshawn Martin (defended by Casey Hayward).
Throw into the endzone; Hayward was able to sky and barely tipped the ball away.

4th qtr, 7:22
3rd and 10 at GB 20
Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep right intended for Keshawn Martin
is intercepted by Casey Hayward at GNB--4 and returned for 17 yards (tackle by Owen Daniels).
The pass was into the endzone about a yard or two deep.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:38 PM
Ravens
On third and 10 at the Ravens 23, Schaub went to OD in the endzone;
Pollard was called for unecessary roughness.
(This one was just outside RZ, I just happened to see it so I went ahead and included it.)

Schaub threw a 1yd TD pass to OD on first and goal at the 1 in this game.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:39 PM
Bills

2nd qtr 7:21
On 2nd and 9, Schaub was sacked right away for a 4yd loss.

Newton was then called for False Start to make it 3rd and 18.
There's not much to do on 3rd and very long as I had already mentioned some time ago,
even the Pats were a hair more conservative than the Texans on 3rd and 18 or longer.

In the fourth qtr, 11:32
On third and goal at the 5 Schaub threw a 5yd TD pass to Graham.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:40 PM
Jaguars

OT
3rd and 2 just outside the 20
Pass to Martin in the endzone; Jags called for PI.
This one is not on a stat sheet as a pass attempt, but it was a pass attempt into the endzone that could have resulted in a TD.

Next play, 1st and 9 at the 9,
Schaub pass to OD just out his reach in the end zone.

3rd and 7 at the Jags 7
Matt Schaub pass incomplete short right intended for Andre Johnson (defended by Derek Cox)
Back shoulder fade in the end zone, well-defended by Cox.
Actually, Cox kinda pushed off just a tad in AJ's chest.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Titans

1st qtr 1:29
2nd and 7, Schaub pass to OD in the end zone was just long.

A 5yd TD to Casey followed later in this drive.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:42 PM
Pats

On 3rd and goal at the 1; Schaub looked to pass but nobody was open.
He had to throw the ball away as two defenders were upon him.
He didn't take the sack here, and Foster scored on a 1yd TD run on the next play (on 4th down).

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:42 PM
First Colts Game.

Schaub was looking to go into the endzone when both OTs got beat and Freeney was credited for the sack.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 03:43 PM
So do you have evidence for your point? I mean you're going to ask someone for evidence to prove a point then you have some for yours...right? Though in the end it doesn't matter who is blame because neither are going anywhere. I would just like to see it fixed. And of course it will still have something to do with Kubiak. He leads the team and is the coach with a hands-on approach to the offense. It's rarely just a one person issue.

The only evidence I have, are the screenshots that was being posted here, in another thread, & the reports that Walter was open down the field when Schaub threw the INT in the Bengals game.

I don't have a plethora of evidence, but the point here, is that people are blaming the game plan but pointing to Schaub checking down..... this thread was started because of an article in which the premise is that Schaub is checking down.

Checking down infers that he's opting for the short routes. If that is the case, it isn't a "gameplan" issue, but a QB issue.

This was the problem with David Carr. Forget all the other problems he had, if he would have threw the ball down the field, especially in 3rd & long situations, especially when we needed to stretch the field to keep the defenses honest, we would have worked through all that other stuff. I honestly believe that.

With Carr checking down all the time, he gave us no chance to win. When Kubiak tried to get him to throw the long ball, he threw it at the wrong time, into the wrong coverage.

Just like your examples for the Patriots game I can throw some that go the other direction. A 3rd and 9 where Dre is hit for 8 yards. A 3rd and long where Jean is hit for 7 yards. It goes both ways and that is the problem. We don't push the field in these situations in a consistent manner. I remember one Bengals play that frustrated me where most of the targets ran a pattern below the first down marker. Kind of makes it easy on the safety when there is only one receiver deep (intermediate really). He has little to think about so that one option will not be open.

As far as throwing short of the sticks, I'd prefer not to, but if we're throwing to Andre, OD, or Arian, I have no problem with it as those guys have picked up that first down plenty of times, I like our odds there. If it's to KDub..... not so much.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 03:45 PM
Vikings game

Third qtr, On 2nd and 12 at the 13, Schaub led Walter on a pass that almost went for a TD.
They called Walter's knees down inside the 1.
Even though the pass didn't go into the endzone, it was a very good play that almost went for a score.

On the next play, Schaub was flushed out of the pocket by 2 defenders;
his pass to OD in the end zone was off-target.

After a run that went nowhere, the Texans went back to pass but the pocket collapsed, Schaub was sacked.
A hair more time, and he could have connected with OD in the endzone
(OD might have been held on that play and wasn't open soon enough.)

The Texans had to settle for a FG.

There was no lack of trying here.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 04:00 PM
There you have it.

I've gone through every pass plays in the regular season.

There's no indication whatsoever that the Texans are timid with the pass in the redzone.

Jules Winnfield
01-09-2013, 04:40 PM
Message to anyone who is just now noticing this: Congratulations on coming out of your coma! After more than 6 years we were worried about you!

LOL........


but kubiak is an offensive GURU!!!!!!

lets see how many people deny this.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 04:54 PM
Now, remember that I never said that the Texans are good enough in the RZ.

All I was saying is that it wasn't mainly because of Schaub.

We didn't convert 12 times with the runs vs 8 times with the pass.
We had more penalties than the average of the league in the RZ.
We didn't protect The QB as well as we did outside of the RZ; we lacked the league average there by a good margin, especially considering the number of pass attempts.

Now if you ask me about some 10-15 yards outside the RZ (a drive can stall there and we had to settle for FG) then I haven't studied that yet so I can't tell you.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 10:47 PM
An article (http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/russ/2013/01/07/can-the-texans-not-be-predictable-against-the-patriots/) from the Patriots board.

On offense, Kubiak runs an extremely predictable offense that basically screams out “stop us if you can”. Well, the last time the Patriots played the Texans, they did just that by containing Arian Foster who really is the engine for there offense.

Foster ran for 46 yards against the Patriots with a 3.1 yards per carry average which is poor. The Patriots took away Foster, but Kubiak was stubborn in his play calling, and kept going to him.

Here is a perfect example of the Texans being predictable on offense. On five drives against the Patriots, Foster ran the ball on second down. In four of five of these drives, the Texans were forced to punt on fourth down. The Patriots did a great job of limiting yards on runs by Foster on second down.

I understand why Kubiak runs on second down, because he is trying to set up a short third down conversion. The problem with this philosophy is that it is conservative and predictable. If I can figure out what is coming on second down, I am sure Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia is ready for a run from Foster.

I still think it's silly. Just because it's a run on second down means you know where we are going & how we're going to block it. James Casey & Ben Jones surprised the crap out of a couple of Bengals who thought they were about to make a tackle for a loss.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 10:55 PM
An article (http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/russ/2013/01/07/can-the-texans-not-be-predictable-against-the-patriots/) from the Patriots board.



I still think it's silly. Just because it's a run on second down means you know where we are going & how we're going to block it. James Casey & Ben Jones surprisned the crap out of a couple of Bengals who thought they were about to make a tackle for a loss.

It's always silly to take a small sample and call it predictable.
I've already said that the Texans had a few more passes than the Pats on second and third downs through the course of a 16-game season. (First half stats)

Texan_Bill
01-09-2013, 11:06 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/10/ruva5yse.jpg

Where's Schaub supposed to go but the middle of the field to Walter? Atkins brought the heavy pressure, forcing Schaub to step up in the pocket and get rid of the ball. I think he was looking to get the ball to either AJ in the end zone or OD at the marker on the same sideline but Atkins blew that play up, which didn't allow enough time for those routes to develop. OD ran his route inside, then planted his foot to go back to the sideline but didn't have enough time to separate from the LB coverage.
PERFECT!!!!

LOL........


but kubiak is an offensive GURU!!!!!!

lets see how many people deny this.

And you ma'am continue to troll!!

steelbtexan
01-09-2013, 11:08 PM
This is Garys team. He put it together.

Gary runs the offense, It's the offenses job to score points/TD's. For the last 6 weeks the offense has failed to score points, Gary has failed them. Hopefully this changes on Sunday. If they dont score atleast 27/30 pts the Texans will probably lose.

Here's to hoping Gary has fixed some of the offenses problems.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 11:14 PM
An article (http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/russ/2013/01/07/can-the-texans-not-be-predictable-against-the-patriots/) from the Patriots board.



I still think it's silly. Just because it's a run on second down means you know where we are going & how we're going to block it. James Casey & Ben Jones surprised the crap out of a couple of Bengals who thought they were about to make a tackle for a loss.

And BTW, I just went back to check.
With Schaub in there, the Texans called 7 pass plays and 10 run plays (Tate and Forsett each had one.) I may be off a hair with a couple of drinks already, so don't take it as a gospel, LOL.
Foster scored on a one-yard run.

Texan_Bill
01-09-2013, 11:19 PM
Here's to hoping Gary has fixed some of the offenses problems.

Well if it includes celebatory drinks, no??? ;)

Surreal McCoy
01-09-2013, 11:31 PM
]

Where's Schaub supposed to go but the middle of the field to Walter? Atkins brought the heavy pressure, forcing Schaub to step up in the pocket and get rid of the ball. I think he was looking to get the ball to either AJ in the end zone or OD at the marker on the same sideline but Atkins blew that play up, which didn't allow enough time for those routes to develop. OD ran his route inside, then planted his foot to go back to the sideline but didn't have enough time to separate from the LB coverage.

Three great posts in a row, but I'm afraid it's wasted. These folks minds are made up and no amount of 'facts' are gonna change it.

Repped.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 11:31 PM
This is Garys team. He put it together.

Gary runs the offense, It's the offenses job to score points/TD's. For the last 6 weeks the offense has failed to score points, Gary has failed them. Hopefully this changes on Sunday. If they dont score atleast 27/30 pts the Texans will probably lose.

Here's to hoping Gary has fixed some of the offenses problems.

Again, I may be off here, but this is my count of all the games Brady started and lost.

The points scored by the Pats includes ST and defensive score.

They lost 29 times when scoring 17 points and fewer,
5 times when they scored 20, 3 times when they scored 21, and 9 times when they scored more than 21.

This is against all different NFL defenses, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

What do you think we need to hold them to in order to have a chance at winning the game?

dalemurphy
01-09-2013, 11:38 PM
This is Garys team. He put it together.

Gary runs the offense, It's the offenses job to score points/TD's. For the last 6 weeks the offense has failed to score points, Gary has failed them. Hopefully this changes on Sunday. If they dont score atleast 27/30 pts the Texans will probably lose.

Here's to hoping Gary has fixed some of the offenses problems.

I generally agree. However, it is important to note that Kubiak isn't obsessed with offense. He uses his knowledge/skill as an offensive guru to compensate for deficit in talent. The Texans are chalked full of expensive first round draft picks on defense, while the offense has continued get the job done with mid and late round picks (plus AJ). This season, they let go of the right side of the offensive line... The combination of those oline struggles and a lack of explosive talent at WR2/WR3 causes a lot of trouble when the team is forced into passing situations. I expect this will be addressed in the off-season.

For now, guys are going to have to make plays and thread a needle if we are going to win on Sunday.

417Texan
01-09-2013, 11:40 PM
Kubiak needs to attack Pats because that defense they possess can be took advantage of. Texans have the players and need to make it happen.

steelbtexan
01-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Well if it includes celebatory drinks, no??? ;)

If they win I will buy the 1st round.

BTW, is somebody getting a watch party together at Bubbas?

thunderkyss
01-10-2013, 12:10 AM
This is Garys team. He put it together.

Gary runs the offense, It's the offenses job to score points/TD's. For the last 6 weeks the offense has failed to score points, Gary has failed them. Hopefully this changes on Sunday. If they dont score atleast 27/30 pts the Texans will probably lose.

Here's to hoping Gary has fixed some of the offenses problems.

Technically, he's the head coach. His job is to win games, win the division, win in the play-offs, & win the Super Bowl. He's doing a pretty good job so far. Not perfect, but pretty good.

Only one team won more games in the AFC. We are the AFC South Champs two years running. We've already won in the Wild Card round again. Things are not looking good for us, we've got our work cut out for us. But what's that saying?

Something about running the horse that brung ya.

Texn4life
01-10-2013, 12:42 AM
Like I said in a previous post, it just seems like to me we haven't been able to run effectively on the early downs and that's whats causing us problems. Play action on 1st down in the red zone would probably be the best plan of action but for some we've been forced into a lot of 3rd and long situations once we get down into the red zone and that's where we've been struggling from what I can see.

Once we get inside the 20 it almost seems like a given we're going to run on first down. When you only get 1 or 2 yards there it throws us off. I'd just love to see us try to get even a short pass on first down to set up the run once we get down there. I'm only going based on memory, but thats what I see. Its not what we do that needs to change in my view. Just when and how we do it.

Lucky
01-10-2013, 06:49 AM
I generally agree. However, it is important to note that Kubiak isn't obsessed with offense. He uses his knowledge/skill as an offensive guru to compensate for deficit in talent.
The Texans have 6 Pro Bowlers on offense. Twice as many as the Patriots and the same number of 1st round picks starting (2). Talent is not an excuse. It's game planning and execution that is keeping the Texans out of the end zone.

thunderkyss
01-10-2013, 08:23 AM
Like I said in a previous post, it just seems like to me we haven't been able to run effectively on the early downs and that's whats causing us problems. Play action on 1st down in the red zone would probably be the best plan of action but for some we've been forced into a lot of 3rd and long situations once we get down into the red zone and that's where we've been struggling from what I can see.

Once we get inside the 20 it almost seems like a given we're going to run on first down. When you only get 1 or 2 yards there it throws us off. I'd just love to see us try to get even a short pass on first down to set up the run once we get down there. I'm only going based on memory, but thats what I see. Its not what we do that needs to change in my view. Just when and how we do it.

From the Minnesota game:

3rd qtr 5:43 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321223034&period=3)

2nd and 10 at MIN 25
M.Schaub pass short left to A.Johnson to MIN 11 for 14 yards (H.Smith) [C.Greenway].
1st and 10 at MIN 11
M.Schaub sacked at MIN 13 for -2 yards (J.Allen).
2nd and 12 at MIN 13
M.Schaub pass short middle to K.Walter to MIN 1 for 12 yards (H.Smith).
1st and 1 at MIN 1
M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to O.Daniels.
2nd and 1 at MIN 1
B.Tate up the middle to MIN 1 for no gain (K.Williams).
3rd and 1 at MIN 1
M.Schaub sacked at MIN 15 for -14 yards (F.Evans).
4th and 15 at MIN 15
S.Graham 33 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-D.Jone




From Indy:

3rd qtr 15:00 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=321230011&period=3)

3rd and 7 at IND 26
(Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to A.Johnson. PENALTY on IND-V.Davis, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at IND 26 - No Play.
1st and 10 at IND 21
(Run formation) M.Schaub pass short right to J.Casey to IND 13 for 8 yards (C.Vaughn).
2nd and 2 at IND 13
(Run formation) A.Foster left tackle for 13 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


From our Cincinnati game
This one is tricky, depends on how strict your definition of Red Zone is. 1st down starts at the 24, but the first play from the 22 yard line is a pass.

2nd Qtr 9:24 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330105034&period=2)

1st and 10 at CIN 24
Arian Foster rush over left tackle for 2 yards to the CINCINNATI 22, tackled by Dan Skuta.
2nd and 8 at CIN 22
Matt Schaub pass complete to Owen Daniels for 7 yards to the CINCINNATI 15, tackled by Vontaze Burfict.
3rd and 1 at CIN 15
Arian Foster rush over left guard for 4 yards to the CINCINNATI 11, tackled by Nate Clements for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at CIN 11
Arian Foster rush over left guard for 1 yard to the CINCINNATI 10, tackled by Geno Atkins and Robert Geathers.
2nd and 9 at CIN 10
Matt Schaub pass complete to Owen Daniels for 6 yards to the CINCINNATI 4, tackled by Reggie Nelson.
Timeout HOUSTON TEXANS, clock 2:27.
3rd and 3 at CIN 4
Matt Schaub pass incomplete to Andre Johnson.

Here, a pass play gets us into the Red Zone, the first play in the red zone is a run, but surely you aren't suggesting we change our approach here right?

3rd Qtr 13:51 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330105034&period=3)

1st and 10 at CIN 27
Matt Schaub pass complete to Andre Johnson for 22 yards to the CINCINNATI 5, tackled by Adam Jones for a 1ST down.
1st and 0 at CIN 5
Arian Foster rush up the middle for 1 yard to the CINCINNATI 4, tackled by Michael Johnson.
2nd and 0 at CIN 1
Arian Foster rush over left guard for 1 yard for a TOUCHDOWN.


3:06

3rd and 4 at CIN 20
Matt Schaub pass complete to Owen Daniels for 11 yards to the CINCINNATI 9, tackled by Nate Clements and Reggie Nelson for a 1ST down.
1st and 0 at CIN 9
Arian Foster rush over left guard for 1 yard to the CINCINNATI 18, tackled by Domata Peko, HOUSTON penalty 10 yard Holding on Brandon Brooks accepted.
1st and 0 at CIN 18
Matt Schaub pass incomplete to Kevin Walter, broken up by Terence Newman.
2nd and 0 at CIN 18
Arian Foster rush over left tackle for 7 yards to the CINCINNATI 11, tackled by Rey Maualuga.
3rd and 0 at CIN 11
Matt Schaub pass complete to Arian Foster for 5 yards to the CINCINNATI 6, tackled by Reggie Nelson.
4th and 0 at CIN 6
Shayne Graham 24 yard field goal GOOD.


So, I don't know if what is actually happening conducive with what you remember. As soon as we get to the red zone... sometimes we throw the ball. Sometimes on 1st down inside the red zone.... we pass. I don't see the "predictability"

He's calling the game just like you want.

Mr teX
01-10-2013, 12:07 PM
Three great posts in a row, but I'm afraid it's wasted. These folks minds are made up and no amount of 'facts' are gonna change it.

Repped.

Pretty much..in 1 instance they're getting mad when throws it deep to someone who's not really open & it gets intercepted (walter in the 1st NE game) and say "he should've checked it down to foster he was wide open!!!"

Then in another instance, these same folks are getting mad b/c he's checking down too much and just taking what the defense gives him.."they need to throw it deep, but they won't b/c schaub's arm is pathethic!!!"

Then when faced with visual evidence as to why Schaub is doing what he's doing at times....noone has anything to say about it...par for the course around here.

Here is the key to whether or not schaub goes deep or not...zone vs. man. That's it..period. When teams run zone against us, he can have a field day b/c the WR's are finding holes in the secondary and aren't neccessarily being held by any 1 person and there's plenty of room to make throws. When they run man, he struggles at times & has to check it down alot largly b/c the WR's can't separate. In the NE game and in the GB game those teams ran a ton of man against us. In the NE game in particular i remember Mike Mayock going crazy about the fact Talib was singling up on AJ and was getting away with it. The colts did it as well. Of course Schaub's ability to zip it has some bearing on that, but not much in my opinion b/c you don't want your qb's making tight throws like that too much anyway, regardless of their arm strength...It's the WR's more than anything. teams just feel that player for player, our WR's can't beat their cb's 1 on 1.

Vinny
01-10-2013, 12:12 PM
The Texans have 6 Pro Bowlers on offense. Twice as many as the Patriots and the same number of 1st round picks starting (2). Talent is not an excuse. It's game planning and execution that is keeping the Texans out of the end zone. Planning, execution, plus lack of team speed at the skill positions. Also, swap Brady for Schaub and the Texans may win this one.

76Texan
01-10-2013, 12:22 PM
Basically, we just need to execute better.

One stat that I notice is that Schaub is fairly consistent no matter where in the RZ.

The running game is a different story.
We were most successful from the 3 yd line in.

Maybe Gary can call more pass plays between the 7 and 4 yard line.
Do more of what we do well.

But, you know as well as I do that historical stats may not hold true in the future.

:pop:

Texn4life
01-10-2013, 12:44 PM
From the Minnesota game:


From Indy:


From our Cincinnati game
This one is tricky, depends on how strict your definition of Red Zone is. 1st down starts at the 24, but the first play from the 22 yard line is a pass.


Here, a pass play gets us into the Red Zone, the first play in the red zone is a run, but surely you aren't suggesting we change our approach here right?




So, I don't know if what is actually happening conducive with what you remember. As soon as we get to the red zone... sometimes we throw the ball. Sometimes on 1st down inside the red zone.... we pass. I don't see the "predictability"

He's calling the game just like you want.

2 of those drives kind of prove my point though. We threw early in the downs and finished with TDs on 2 of those drives. The last one against Cincy you can pretty much throw out though. We ran the ball on first down and Brooks was called for a holding penalty. That put us at 1st and goal from the 19 and almost in an obvious pass situation. And on another drive you picked out a 2nd down play where we threw the ball.

Listen, I know there are some situations in which he has thrown the ball on 1st down in the red zone recently. But based on what you pulled up the one time we threw the ball on a true first down around the red zone last game we punched it in. Later tonight I'll see if I can go back to the last few games and look at all of our red zone opportunities. I know you pulled up a few to try and prove your point, but I'll take a look at all of our red zone drives to see for myself.

76Texan
01-10-2013, 01:02 PM
The thing is that the Texans didn't do as well between the 35 to the 20 yard line as they did in the RZ.

Texn4life
01-10-2013, 01:09 PM
The thing is that the Texans didn't do as well between the 35 to the 20 yard line as they did in the RZ.

That seems to be true as well. I'm actually agreeing with Fiddler somewhat in that I don't buy the whole thing that we need to throw the ball in the end zone for the sake of proving we're aggressive. Have to take what the defense gives you in certain situations. Our execution has been poor mainly. I don't think we're doing much differently, but over-analyzing is predictable when things aren't going well.

76Texan
01-10-2013, 01:19 PM
That seems to be true as well. I'm actually agreeing with Fiddler somewhat in that I don't buy the whole thing that we need to throw the ball in the end zone for the sake of proving we're aggressive. Have to take what the defense gives you in certain situations. Our execution has been poor mainly. I don't think we're doing much differently, but over-analyzing is predictable when things aren't going well.

Agree!

Overall, it still boils down to execution.