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View Full Version : NFL Network will re-air week 14 Texans vs Pats


alphajoker
01-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Tuesday, Jan. 8 at 9:30 p.m. ET.

If you can stomach it.

Dutchrudder
01-07-2013, 05:18 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94722

:)

StarStruck
01-07-2013, 05:22 PM
I'll pass. Looking forward to a different outcome now that they chips are higher.

ObsiWan
01-07-2013, 05:23 PM
I'll watch. I want to see if Belichick actually called off the dogs at 21-zip or if Wade found something that worked.

False Start
01-07-2013, 07:45 PM
I just don't think I can bring myself to watch it again... :hankpalm:

BullBlitz
01-07-2013, 07:48 PM
Tuesday, Jan. 8 at 9:30 p.m. ET.

If you can stomach it.

Thanks, I will definitely tune in.

CloakNNNdagger
01-07-2013, 07:50 PM
I will be taking a barbed wire enema to take my mind off of what I'll be watching.:gun:

NitroGSXR
01-07-2013, 07:51 PM
Thanks, I will definitely tune in.

We know you will.

:ant:

thunderkyss
01-07-2013, 07:55 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94722

:)

In that thread, I suggested it would be a good game to watch if you want to be convinced that we have a chance. The defense, once you get past the 21 points, looked a lot like what we saw Saturday. We frustrated Brady, we shut him down for 6 out 7 of his next possessions.

False Start
01-07-2013, 08:02 PM
I will be taking a barbed wire enema to take my mind off of what I'll be watching.:gun:

I would have to http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/bong.gif .... a lot!

TexansJohn
01-07-2013, 08:33 PM
Tuesday, Jan. 8 at 9:30 p.m. ET.

If you can stomach it.

I'll pass...watched it live at Gillette Stadium. It would be like going to a funeral and then viewing a video of it afterwards.

MEGA SWATT
01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
:mariopalm:I think I'll watch it:smiliepalm:

NitroGSXR
01-07-2013, 08:47 PM
I would have to http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/bong.gif .... a lot!

This is how I feel. I'm the squirrel and the hands are the Texans.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmtgkQpTC2ExCdPKvavZBNnMCxZRgwI W1F5fOLBEDgS3Sqd9-gSf8U3tO3iw

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 08:08 PM
Coming up shortly.

thunderkyss
01-08-2013, 08:30 PM
If I were Kubiak I'd make it a requirement. They should watch that game daily until Sunday.

arb729
01-08-2013, 08:34 PM
I'm definitely DVRing and watching. Always a different perspective when you rewatch a game you were actually at. I felt like (at the stadium) the defense was noticeably better later in the game (obviously) but it wasn't lack of Patriot effort.

Texan_Bill
01-08-2013, 08:38 PM
I will be taking a barbed wire enema to take my mind off of what I'll be watching.:gun:

Hey Doc, clean up with my favorite toilet tissue, "Ultra Strong":

http://www.deviantart.com/download/97872470/CHUCK_NORRIS_TOILET_PAPER_by_tranixter.jpg

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 08:41 PM
Vince Wilfork destroyed Ben Jones on first series. D plays decent, but penalty extends drive and instead of FG, it quickly turns to 7 despite chance at fumble recovery.

thunderkyss
01-08-2013, 08:49 PM
Matt's looking pretty good early

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 08:51 PM
Interesting. Texans basically throwing at will in second series and on 1st and 10 @ the 7:54 mark we bring in T Ryan Harris at the R 2TE set where Graham would normally be, and NOBODY on the Pats D bit on the play action and Harris and co were beaten quickly for the sack on Schaub. I swear the Pats knew exactly what was coming.

Texan_Bill
01-08-2013, 08:53 PM
OKAY......... Stop it!!! Not watching. Not gonna happen!!

Time to fix some dinner. :pissed:

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 08:57 PM
Vince still destroying Ben Jones, but Texans passing game looked great on drive #2 but int killed drive, as we know Schaub had Foster WIDE open. Should have been 7-7.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Biting on the play fakes bit our asses for 7 for NE on their 2nd drive. Joseph looks slow.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 09:10 PM
3rd drive we come out slinging again perfectly. Then Schaub does not recognize their full commitment to the run and it goes for loss, then Wilfork blows up Ben Jones, blows up run...and puts us in 3rd and long and pocket collapses. Drive killed.

But the passing game IS/WAS there for the taking.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 09:20 PM
D is doing a good job vs run and on 1st and 2nd down. BS call against Harris on 3rd and long for Pass Interference extends their 3rd drive, and as you would expect them to, they turn their second chance quickly into 7 points.

21-0. But Its not near as hopeless as it sounds or as I remember. We absolutely had our chances to make this a game in the first half.

But our ILBs are going to get picked on alot this Sun w Gronk back. We miss you Cushing.

thunderkyss
01-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Biting on the play fakes bit our asses for 7 for NE on their 2nd drive. Joseph looks slow.

This was his first game back from injury.

He's playing much better now, better than he has all year.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 09:39 PM
This was his first game back from injury.

He's playing much better now, better than he has all year.

No doubt, he is finally 100%. That and having Reed back is big for us. I am excited to see what a difference they will make. But still, Gronk back vs our devastated ILB unit is much bigger addition for them imo.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 09:47 PM
The offense still throwing the ball strong for start of 2nd quarter, the run being stuffed. But, the D-Line of the Pats started to affect the passing game and deflecting balls at LOS Texans style as the quarter moves on. Two more times we move into their territory, and go for it on 4th down. Another tipped ball deflects it just enough to prevent Walter from catching and converting on one. He still should have caught it. Schaub after starting on fire loses abit of rythym toward end of quarter and reacts too soon to pressure and throws errant on 2nd 4th down try. Defenses dictated mid to end of 2nd quarter.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 09:53 PM
Vince Wilfork destroyed Ben Jones on first series. D plays decent, but penalty extends drive and instead of FG, it quickly turns to 7 despite chance at fumble recovery.

Jean needed to catch that ball.
Shoulda been a 30 yard gain to continue the drive there.

We should have had a first down at the Pats 33 or so.
Instead, we had to punt the ball and Welker return it 31 yards.

Then Jackson failed to recover the fumble, and the Pats scored their first TD.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 09:56 PM
Vince still destroying Ben Jones, but Texans passing game looked great on drive #2 but int killed drive, as we know Schaub had Foster WIDE open. Should have been 7-7.

Don't forget that we had Harris playing RT the whole game.
With Newton, they both will have time to catch their breath.

Also, when Gardner came in as the extra OT/TE, he sucked.
He was the reason for the sack on this drive.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:00 PM
Biting on the play fakes bit our asses for 7 for NE on their 2nd drive. Joseph looks slow.

It was not that JJo was low; he was playing his technique just like KJax did so many times in 2010.

Quin and Manning needed to get their act together.
If Quin comes down (because he was closer to the run flow), Manning just has got to take over the post.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:08 PM
3rd drive we come out slinging again perfectly. Then Schaub does not recognize their full commitment to the run and it goes for loss, then Wilfork blows up Ben Jones, blows up run...and puts us in 3rd and long and pocket collapses. Drive killed.

But the passing game IS/WAS there for the taking.

No, the Pats play cover 2 on the 3yd loss and the 1yd gain by Foster,
Schaub did the right thing checking into a run there.

On the sack; it was also Harris' problem as he overset, and let the end man go around the edge a little too quickly forcing Schaub to step up as Wilfork pushed Jone back.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:14 PM
D is doing a good job vs run and on 1st and 2nd down. BS call against Harris on 3rd and long for Pass Interference extends their 3rd drive, and as you would expect them to, they turn their second chance quickly into 7 points.

21-0. But Its not near as hopeless as it sounds or as I remember. We absolutely had our chances to make this a game in the first half.

But our ILBs are going to get picked on alot this Sun w Gronk back. We miss you Cushing.

We stopped them on third down there; that wasn't a very good call by the ref.
It was called on Manning, actually.
Manning could have played it a little more safely; he didn't have to cut off Welker.

And please somebody needs to remember to cover Hernadez or any guy that lines up wide for the Pats.
I want to slap Wade Phillips again.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:21 PM
On 2nd and 4 on our fourth drive, their end man lined up in the neutral zone, but it wasn't called.

Harris got pancaked by a LB, resulting in no gain for Foster.
We need Newton in there, at least to keep Harris fresh.

Then Wilfork batted down the pass to foil the third down conversion.

klockWork
01-08-2013, 10:22 PM
There's a misconception in the NFL that if you hit or pressure someone like Brady or Rogers you shut down their game. That's only true if those pressure comes from just rushing four. If the only way you can bring pressure to elite QB by sending those extra defender by blitzing then you won't stand a chance of winning.

If Wade don't have confidence in his front four and keeps dialing blitz this game is already over.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:23 PM
On third and 2; James came in on a blitz and knock the snot out of Brady to force the bad pass.

C Madd
01-08-2013, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the play breakdowns, 76. It says I must spread rep, though.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:27 PM
Forsett needs to make a better decision on when and where to cut.

On fourth down, Walter dropped an easy pass that would have given us a first down inside their 25.

Instead, we turned the ball over on down.

EllisUnit
01-08-2013, 10:28 PM
No doubt, he is finally 100%. That and having Reed back is big for us. I am excited to see what a difference they will make. But still, Gronk back vs our devastated ILB unit is much bigger addition for them imo.

Ruud is by far our best coverage LB. And i mean BY FAR. So he needs to get the start.

C Madd
01-08-2013, 10:31 PM
Ruud is by far our best coverage LB. And i mean BY FAR. So he needs to get the start.

Agreed. I can't imagine he won't get the start with the injuries that we have at ILB, but I would like to see him start injuries or not.

DX-TEX
01-08-2013, 10:31 PM
Gpoing by what 76 is saying we killed ourselves more than the Pats dominated.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:33 PM
On our next drive, we had a break down in pass protection that foiled the conversion.
Either Jones or Myers needed to pick up that blitzer.
He lined up right there near the LOS.
They had to know that he's likely to come in being so close to the QB in the middle there.

Walter was open and could have had the first down easily, but Schaub was forced to throw the ball wide with the LB pounding on him and put him on the turf.

Surreal McCoy
01-08-2013, 10:34 PM
Loving the running commentary 76 - keep it going

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 10:36 PM
No, the Pats play cover 2 on the 3yd loss and the 1yd gain by Foster,
Schaub did the right thing checking into a run there.

On the sack; it was also Harris' problem as he overset, and let the end man go around the edge a little too quickly forcing Schaub to step up as Wilfork pushed Jone back.

He never checked anything on the play I was talking about, that was my point. The LBs came up before the snap.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:41 PM
We forced a 3-and-out to start the second half.

Gardner and Brown both got beat, forcing Foster to cut back into trafiic for a loss of 2.

Then their CB Dennard did a good job not letting AJ lose.
AJ was running with momentum after the catch but was stopped less than a yard short of the first down.

Maybe AJ can stretch out for a first down, but since we were inside our own 20, he probably didn't want to take a chance of losing the ball there.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 10:46 PM
Then came that stupid play by Demps that gave Stalworth his 63yd TD to put them up by 28.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 10:48 PM
Don't forget that we had Harris playing RT the whole game.
With Newton, they both will have time to catch their breath.

Also, when Gardner came in as the extra OT/TE, he sucked.
He was the reason for the sack on this drive.

I think more importantly, Brooks will be getting alot of time vs Wilfork this time around, and of course we missed Graham in this game.

C Madd
01-08-2013, 10:50 PM
Then came that stupid play by Demps that gave Stalworth his 63yd TD to put them up by 28.

Ugh, I'm having flashbacks.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 10:50 PM
It was not that JJo was low; he was playing his technique just like KJax did so many times in 2010.

Quin and Manning needed to get their act together.
If Quin comes down (because he was closer to the run flow), Manning just has got to take over the post.

JJo was DEF slower in this game and it has been stated that this was his first game back from injury and was not in the same form as he is today.

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 10:53 PM
Then came that stupid play by Demps that gave Stalworth his 63yd TD to put them up by 28.

On 3rd and 10 no less...

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:02 PM
He never checked anything on the play I was talking about, that was my point. The LBs came up before the snap.

It's OK.
When both safeties play deep, we have enough men to block on the run.
They just need to do their job better.

With Brooks playing more, we should match up with their big men better.
And hopefully, Graham can play to provide the block on the edge on those outside zone runs that we're good at.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:03 PM
I'm taking a cigarette break.
Be back shortly.

MEGA SWATT
01-08-2013, 11:07 PM
Tuesday, Jan. 8 at 9:30 p.m. ET.

If you can stomach it.

And........again Wed, Jan 9th at 2:30-4pm central

Tailgate
01-08-2013, 11:13 PM
It's OK.
When both safeties play deep, we have enough men to block on the run.
They just need to do their job better.

And thats where we fundamentaly disagree. I understand the safeties were deep... And the LBs came to line of scrimmage plugging the holes pre snap. Which is exactly why Schaub should have checked to a hot route or even play action taking advantage of the wide open middle of the field. This is the Pats... Vince, Love, and co. are run killers and thus run was stoned for a loss almost immediately. Quick strike as we were passing very effectively already.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:28 PM
We scored a TD to cut the leadt to 21.

The D then forced another 3 and out.

Routt was called for a penalty on the punt return; we lost 10 yards.

On 3rd and 3; their nickel back (Arrington) came in early on the pass to KMart, but we didn't get the call.

It was a bang bang play, sure, but Arrington was there early to prevent Martin from catching the ball for a first down.

Too bad, you win some, you lose some.

We punted, Welker returned it for 11 yards.

Carmichael was blocked in the back; he was sent flying to the ground; no call.

Instead of being pinned back near the goal line (around the 7 to 8 yd line), the Pats had the ball at their 28.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:33 PM
They advanced the ball to our 38.

On 3rd and drive, we forced Brady to scramble.
He escaped J.J. Watt and barely made the first down.

I'm not sure about the rule when the QB starts to slide, where should they mark the ball? (He's considered to be giving himself up.)

It was quite close.

Can somebody check the rule (I'm just curious.)

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:43 PM
On 2nd and 10, Brady completed a screen pass to Welker who made two guys miss (Dobbins and Quin).

Especially Quin; he has got to make that tackle.

Watt forced the fumble; the ball bounced the right way toward the end zone.

Floyd was the one closest to it; he recovered it for a TD.

The ball went right over JJo's head.

76Texan
01-08-2013, 11:46 PM
On third and a long 2, Tate was stopped just short.

O.D. missed his block while Harris didn't get out quick enough to make a good cut block on the NT Kyle Love.
Brooks had done his job holding him up before releasing to the second level.

Again, we can use Newton and Graham here.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 06:25 AM
I'm definitely DVRing and watching. Always a different perspective when you rewatch a game you were actually at. I felt like (at the stadium) the defense was noticeably better later in the game (obviously) but it wasn't lack of Patriot effort.

They also add a lot of things you don't see during game day. A lot of the chatter on the sidelines for instance. This one, they started off with Jj Watt motivating his team, telling them they are in someone else's house, & they have to take their respect. He said something about the lights are on, it's Monday night.... pretty cool.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 06:28 AM
No doubt, he is finally 100%. That and having Reed back is big for us. I am excited to see what a difference they will make. But still, Gronk back vs our devastated ILB unit is much bigger addition for them imo.

I'm optimistic about Barrett Ruud. He looked to understand route coverages better than I've seen a Texans' LB does.

Remember, we don't have to shut these guys down, just make them earn their yards.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 06:31 AM
No, the Pats play cover 2 on the 3yd loss and the 1yd gain by Foster,
Schaub did the right thing checking into a run there.


People complete passes on cover 2 all the time. Just because the defense is in cover 2, you don't check to a run.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 06:51 AM
Gpoing by what 76 is saying we killed ourselves more than the Pats dominated.

Truth is, our offense was dominated after the Patriots went up 21-0.... we barely moved the ball from then on.

Defensively, Tom Brady took advantage of our mistakes early. We finally settled down, but the damage was done. Their offense didn't really dominate our defense the entire game.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 07:06 AM
Then came that stupid play by Demps that gave Stalworth his 63yd TD to put them up by 28.

What's really important to understand here, is that again this is third down. 3rd & 10. Our defense repeatedly got the Patriots to third & long situations but a gaff by our defense, or a ticky-tack foul extended the drives & kept the Patriots on the field. The Pats first scoring drive was made possible because of a holding call five & a half yards past the LOS. five & a half yards.... then the flag was late, made it look like the ref was thinking, "What can I do to help Brady here? Oh.. Oh, I know."

What makes this play in particular so bad, is that our defense was handling the run well enough at this point. Well enough, that you wouldn't think we were going to give up a 10 yard gain on the ground. It is 3rd & long (10 yards).

There is no way a receiver should have been allowed to get deep on our defense.

Now, 3rd & 10 I might have told my safety to squat there on the 10 yard line, but I would have had my corner play about 5 yards on top of the receiver. At the snap, he would stay on top of the receiver & cover anything deep. The Safety would be looking for the short pass. If it's a quick out or slant, it would be his job to tackle the receiver before he covered the 10 yards. If it's a 10 yard curl, the safety should be able to make a play on the ball, or break up the throw. If the receiver continues to run deep, the safety would take underneath coverage & run with the receiver, underneath with the corner on top.

So it's possible that Demps was doing the right thing & the corner screwed up, but it looks like the corner took a trailing position after trying to bump the receiver (makes sense) & Demps is facing this so he should have seen the corner was trailing meaning he should "adjust" his coverage on the fly & stay on top.

However, this is the same thing that happened against the Colts just before the half when Hilton scored on a 70 yard TD pass. He was pulled from that game. He didn't play against Minnesota. He snuck back in against the Colts week 17 & he got burned the same way again.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 08:46 AM
People complete passes on cover 2 all the time. Just because the defense is in cover 2, you don't check to a run.

Up to this point, we had called 8 passing plays and 7 run plays (including the one that got called back).
Including the play that was called back, we gained 35 yads on 7 runs, a healthy 5 yd clip.
Why should we be afraid of their rushing defense?

Secondly, in the ZBS, with the flow going to one side, we normally option one defender (we did on both these occasions.)
It means we have one more man to block.
Look at Schaub; remember that we always have the bootleg in play;
their end man is always taught not to sell out; he has to stay disciplined and be ready for the PA pass.
It's to our advantage, and we should to take it.
Once the RB bust through the LOS, he will have room to run for a good gain.

On the first play, Casey got blown up 4 yards in the backfield; that was too big of a lost;
otherwise Foster would have a huge hole to burst through inside LT.
Besides, there were nobody running a hot route; it was a run play all the way.

On the second play, O.D. had original help from Harris;
he simply cannot allowed the SOLB Ninkovich to go around him to the outside and come back up to make the tackle,
That's insane when he totally whiffed that block.
Again, there was no hot route. AJ didn't even run a full route and the rest of them were blocking.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 09:02 AM
Up to this point, we had called 8 passing plays and 7 run plays (including the one that got called back).
Including the play that was called back, we gained 35 yads on 7 runs, a healthy 5 yd clip.
Why should we be afraid of their rushing defense?


My mistake, I thought you were saying that he checked to a run play because they were in cover 2. That's the only thing I had issue with. If we're checking to a run play because they are in cover 2, then that goes to the assumption that Schaub has serious confidence issues.

If you're saying tailgate was wrong, they were not sold out to stop the run, because they were in cover 2..... then I agree. (Not that I made that observation myself, I don't remember what they were playing at the moment).

76Texan
01-09-2013, 09:08 AM
What's really important to understand here, is that again this is third down. 3rd & 10. Our defense repeatedly got the Patriots to third & long situations but a gaff by our defense, or a ticky-tack foul extended the drives & kept the Patriots on the field. The Pats first scoring drive was made possible because of a holding call five & a half yards past the LOS. five & a half yards.... then the flag was late, made it look like the ref was thinking, "What can I do to help Brady here? Oh.. Oh, I know."

What makes this play in particular so bad, is that our defense was handling the run well enough at this point. Well enough, that you wouldn't think we were going to give up a 10 yard gain on the ground. It is 3rd & long (10 yards).

There is no way a receiver should have been allowed to get deep on our defense.

Now, 3rd & 10 I might have told my safety to squat there on the 10 yard line, but I would have had my corner play about 5 yards on top of the receiver. At the snap, he would stay on top of the receiver & cover anything deep. The Safety would be looking for the short pass. If it's a quick out or slant, it would be his job to tackle the receiver before he covered the 10 yards. If it's a 10 yard curl, the safety should be able to make a play on the ball, or break up the throw. If the receiver continues to run deep, the safety would take underneath coverage & run with the receiver, underneath with the corner on top.

So it's possible that Demps was doing the right thing & the corner screwed up, but it looks like the corner took a trailing position after trying to bump the receiver (makes sense) & Demps is facing this so he should have seen the corner was trailing meaning he should "adjust" his coverage on the fly & stay on top.

However, this is the same thing that happened against the Colts just before the half when Hilton scored on a 70 yard TD pass. He was pulled from that game. He didn't play against Minnesota. He snuck back in against the Colts week 17 & he got burned the same way again.

KJ was moving around to disguise his intention against Welker as the #1 receiver on the most inside.
He finally settled to defend any quick in-breaking route.

It looks like Harris played basically the same tecnique on the #2 receiver.
He sticks to the receiver to the inside; he was ready to defend any short-to-medium routes.

The only concern Demps may have is a 10-yd square out by Welker.
He didn't have to worry about the 10-yd square in by Stallworth, nor any short route by this #2 receiver.

He just has to get back because neither CB on either side of him were playing deep; they were both playing on-man coverage.
The only help they needed was on the deep routes.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 09:14 AM
Up to this point, we had called 8 passing plays and 7 run plays (including the one that got called back).
Including the play that was called back, we gained 35 yads on 7 runs, a healthy 5 yd clip.
Why should we be afraid of their rushing defense?

Secondly, in the ZBS, with the flow going to one side, we normally option one defender (we did on both these occasions.)
It means we have one more man to block.
Look at Schaub; remember that we always have the bootleg in play;
their end man is always taught not to sell out; he has to stay disciplined and be ready for the PA pass.
It's to our advantage, and we should to take it.
Once the RB bust through the LOS, he will have room to run for a good gain.

On the first play, Casey got blown up 4 yards in the backfield; that was too big of a lost;
otherwise Foster would have a huge hole to burst through inside LT.
Besides, there were nobody running a hot route; it was a run play all the way.

On the second play, O.D. had original help from Harris;
he simply cannot allowed the SOLB Ninkovich to go around him to the outside and come back up to make the tackle,
That's insane when he totally whiffed that block.
Again, there was no hot route. AJ didn't even run a full route and the rest of them were blocking.


After those first two runs, one of which was called back... Foster had 5 carries for 1 yard in the 1st quarter.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 09:22 AM
My mistake, I thought you were saying that he checked to a run play because they were in cover 2. That's the only thing I had issue with. If we're checking to a run play because they are in cover 2, then that goes to the assumption that Schaub has serious confidence issues.

If you're saying tailgate was wrong, they were not sold out to stop the run, because they were in cover 2..... then I agree. (Not that I made that observation myself, I don't remember what they were playing at the moment).

The whole point was Schaub did not check to anything. It was a run the whole time, and it was clear to me pre snap the D was selling out on the run with their front 7... enough to stifle our run game with their talent, thus calling for a change of play by Schaub which never happened. The LBs stepped up pre snap, Schaub handed off, and wham a 3-4 yd loss. All I was making was an observation that Schaub needed to recognize the D as they did give away their tendencies from time to time and its something I felt we should have exploited in this situation, not put us in 2nd and 13 or whatever.

El Tejano
01-09-2013, 09:22 AM
I might be misunderstanding but I noticed they showed the Washington/Seattle game, and the Baltimore/Indy game...all games that were played this weekend. Also, Replay is supposed to be for games that are real close right? Yet they don't show our playoff win, and the only game they show, not once but twice, is the blow out loss to New England?

76Texan
01-09-2013, 09:31 AM
Tailgate, you can't just subtract plays out like that.

Like I said, even if the LBs crouch the LOS, the offense can still run because we have more men to block.

And when we do our job right, Foster can bust out for a long gain.

Also, I still remember the loss to the Cowboys the last year Wade was with them.
Aikman was noting during the game that the Cowboys run every time we were in cover 2, and pass when we were on cover 1 or 3.

And they didn't even have the extra man to block.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 09:34 AM
The whole point was Schaub did not check to anything. It was a run the whole time, and it was clear to me pre snap the D was selling out on the run with their front 7... enough to stifle our run game with their talent, thus calling for a change of play by Schaub which never happened. The LBs stepped up pre snap, Schaub handed off, and wham a 3-4 yd loss. All I was making was an observation that Schaub needed to recognize the D as they did give away their tendencies from time to time and its something I felt we should have exploited in this situation, not put us in 2nd and 13 or whatever.

Most every team picks 5 guys that they put on the OL. They pay these guys a lot of money to be able to knock people off the line & give our RB the opportunity to run 3+ yards (10 feet). Just because they have 7 guys lined up to stop you is no reason to check out of a run play.

We run when we want to run....... that's the way you've got to be, regardless if you're a running team or not. If you're good at it, then it's true more times than not. If you're not.... then you don't say it as loud as other teams, but the premise of your running game is always the same.

If there is only 7 guys in the box, then we should be able to find an advantage, either to the right or the left of the center. We've got three guys to the strong side, two guys to the weak side, unless we're playing with two TEs. If we've got a fullback, that's one more person to put the numbers in our favor.

Unless they put all 7 guys on one side of the center, there is no reason to check out of the run play. If we ran it to the 7 man side, then yeah, that's on Schaub.

If we ran it to the side we had numbers & the OL still got blown up, that's a totally different issue that has nothing to do with Schaub.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 09:42 AM
And guys, I would usually agree with you. But NOT vs BB and the Patriots. The way to beat them is to throw the ball and keep them off balance... NOT to play into their strength. "we are going to do what we do" time and time again does not work against that team.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Tailgate, go back and look at the first two run plays when Foster gained 12 and 15 yards; their LBs crouched the line.


On the two plays that we gained only 2 yards each, their LBs didn't sell out to play the run.

On the play that we lost a yard, their LBs didn't sell out to play the run either.

We gained 5 on the other play.

We've only called 6 running plays up to that series (my mistake, I counted wrong when I said it was 7.)

35/6 = 5.83 ypc

What else do you want?

76Texan
01-09-2013, 09:58 AM
And guys, I would usually agree with you. But NOT vs BB and the Patriots. The way to beat them is to throw the ball and keep them off balance... NOT to play into their strength. "we are going to do what we do" time and time again does not work against that team.

Like I said, our pass/run ratio in the first half is 25/13 as compared to 19/11 by the Pats.
We took 4 shots downfield (the stat keepers usually score deep attempts as 20 yd from the LOS or longer in corelation with the pass routes as defined in the route tree, not counting YAC) and a couple of intermediate ones.

(And of course, we threw even more in the second half.)

We were not playing conservatively.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 10:11 AM
Tailgate, go back and look at the first two run plays when Foster gained 12 and 15 yards; their LBs crouched the line.


On the two plays that we gained only 2 yards each, their LBs didn't sell out to play the run.

On the play that we lost a yard, their LBs didn't sell out to play the run either.

We gained 5 on the other play.

We've only called 6 running plays up to that series (my mistake, I counted wrong when I said it was 7.)

35/6 = 5.83 ypc

What else do you want?

After that first 15 yard gain. The next Foster 8 runs went for 11 total yards.

On the first two runs you keep bringing up, they only had 1 LB at the second level for the most part. On the play I am referencing, they had 2 LBs loaded up on our left side, where we were handing off the ball, and they came up just before the snap to fill exaclty where we were running to. Basically what you guys are saying is that it is OK for the LB to be able to get into the backfield immediately and take out Casey right in front of the hand off? Thats the 1 on 1 battle situations we want to be in??

At the very minimum the play should have been redirected to the right.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 10:51 AM
After that first 15 yard gain. The next Foster 8 runs went for 11 total yards.

On the first two runs you keep bringing up, they only had 1 LB at the second level for the most part. On the play I am referencing, they had 2 LBs loaded up on our left side, where we were handing off the ball, and they came up just before the snap to fill exaclty where we were running to. Basically what you guys are saying is that it is OK for the LB to be able to get into the backfield immediately and take out Casey right in front of the hand off? Thats the 1 on 1 battle situations we want to be in??

At the very minimum the play should have been redirected to the right.


TG, up to that point, the fact that the LB(s) crouching the LOS had no real effect on our running game.

On the first play where we gained 12, they had 6 on the line, and the LB jumping before the snap. They had 7, we still gained 12.

On the 3-yd loss, they had 5 on the line, one ILB jumping just before the snap, with the other one followed shortly.

On the 1-yd gain, they had 5 on the line; neither ILBs jumped.

There's nothing to support your assertion, I'm afraid.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 10:58 AM
TG, up to that point, the fact that the LB(s) crouching the LOS had no real effect on our running game.

On the first play where we gained 12, they had 6 on the line, and the LB jumping before the snap. They had 7, we still gained 12.

On the 3-yd loss, they had 5 on the line, one ILB jumping just before the snap, with the other one followed shortly.

On the 1-yd gain, they had 5 on the line; neither ILBs jumped.

There's nothing to support your assertion, I'm afraid.

The first play is not comparable in terms of the look the D gave us. On the play IN PARTICULAR, it was dead before it started. The difference is that the LB who jumped up pre snap (and there were two of them that did) was able to meet Casey head on in the BACKFIELD, thus forcing Foster to step back, giving time for the rest of the D to swarm. Tell me, how was that play ever supposed to work with the LB meeting Casey in the backfield? The -1 loss play was because Wilfork completely blew Jones up on the play. Different situations alltogether.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 11:00 AM
At any rate, when they started inching up to the line, the ball was ready to be snapped; there's no changing play.

On the back side, we had a guy optioned (unblocked.)

We had more blockers on play side; there's no excuse.

Even if you want Schaub to call the run to the right instead; we didn't gain any advantage.
They had 3 on 3 plus the WILB readying to flow to that side.
That WILB was near the LOS in the middle; it doesn't matter which way the flow went.

Like I said, it's a case where if we can get Foster to bust through the line, it would be a big gain.
That's what we're looking for on first down, isn't it?

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 11:06 AM
At any rate, when they started inching up to the line, the ball was ready to be snapped; there's no changing play.



Now THAT is where you have a valid argument. I totally get that part, and yes... it would be asking alot of this offense to be a little more patient pre snap, and we had a guy in motion prior to hand off... and the snap was always going to be snapped when the motion guy got into position. BUT, we will hopefully be a little more patient on occasion prior to snap to see if we can get anything out of their looks. Again, this is the Patriots we are playing... we have to keep them on their toes by any means necessary.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 11:09 AM
The way I saw it, the LB had a slow running start; Casey had the power of starting from his crouching stand.

It doesn't matter where they met (even though I expected Casey to meet the LB about at least half a yard deeper forward); what matters was that Casey got jolted backward by the collision.

That prevented Foster to cut outside early; instead, he got stucked behind the block.

It's good chatting with ya' Tailgate.
I need a break now though :)

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 11:19 AM
The way I saw it, the LB had a slow running start; Casey had the power of starting from his crouching stand.

It doesn't matter where they met (even though I expected Casey to meet the LB about at least half a yard deeper forward); what matters was that Casey got jolted backward by the collision.

That prevented Foster to cut outside early; instead, he got stucked behind the block.

Of course it matters. One, when are you honestly expecting James Casey to win that battle vs a LB so quick out of his stance? This is not Leach we are talking about. Not only did the LB blow up Casey, but he made the tackle. Two, even if Casey won the collision, the goal of the defense is to meet the FB on any running play as EARLY AS POSSIBLE. Its football 101. And they did it in our backfield. The matchup was not in our favor on this play.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 11:20 AM
It's good chatting with ya' Tailgate.
I need a break now though :)

You too AMIGO. Cig break it is. :runaway:

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 12:04 PM
And guys, I would usually agree with you. But NOT vs BB and the Patriots. The way to beat them is to throw the ball and keep them off balance... NOT to play into their strength. "we are going to do what we do" time and time again does not work against that team.

Why wouldn't we play to our strength?

Doesn't make sense to think we'll beat him with Schaub doing his Aaron Rogers impersonation. I think we've pretty much agreed that he is not Brady.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 12:16 PM
Why wouldn't we play to our strength?

Doesn't make sense to think we'll beat him with Schaub doing his Aaron Rogers impersonation. I think we've pretty much agreed that he is not Brady.

What was wrong with our previous game plan vs Pats? As 76 noted the pass/run ration was 25/13 in the first half. We moved the ball fairly at will throwing the ball the first time. Are you expecting to see us challenge Wilfork and Love more this time around? May work better with Graham in the fold. But no, I am not expecting Rogers to show up for us at QB... but I think throwing the ball in our two TE sets and getting Foster in space is imperative to loosen up the LBs as coverage is not their strength. Stopping the run is.

thunderkyss
01-09-2013, 01:04 PM
What was wrong with our previous game plan vs Pats? As 76 noted the pass/run ration was 25/13 in the first half. We moved the ball fairly at will throwing the ball the first time. Are you expecting to see us challenge Wilfork and Love more this time around? May work better with Graham in the fold. But no, I am not expecting Rogers to show up for us at QB... but I think throwing the ball in our two TE sets and getting Foster in space is imperative to loosen up the LBs as coverage is not their strength. Stopping the run is.

I think the game plan is going to be what it's going to be. I just don't like this, "don't play into their strength" talk. If our strength is running the ball... we need to run the ball.

Play action is a big part of our offense. Works better when we run the ball effectively.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 01:36 PM
Of course it matters. One, when are you honestly expecting James Casey to win that battle vs a LB so quick out of his stance? This is not Leach we are talking about. Not only did the LB blow up Casey, but he made the tackle. Two, even if Casey won the collision, the goal of the defense is to meet the FB on any running play as EARLY AS POSSIBLE. Its football 101. And they did it in our backfield. The matchup was not in our favor on this play.

When I said it doesn't matter, it means that Casey needs to be even.

He's quicker than Leach, he should have been there at least a half hard deeper.
In that scenario, even if he gets blown up just the same, Foster still had a little more room to operate.

He decided to squat where he did, he should be able to sustain the blow instead of getting blown up.
He has got to find the best position so as not to get blown up.
It only ends up worse for Casey himself on the block.

If he needed to squat a little sooner, then that's what he should have done.

Foster then can make a decision when and where to cut.
Don't forget that Foster is supposed to be good because he knows to press the heels of his blocker; but those heels cannot go backward.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 01:46 PM
I think the game plan is going to be what it's going to be. I just don't like this, "don't play into their strength" talk. If our strength is running the ball... we need to run the ball.

Play action is a big part of our offense. Works better when we run the ball effectively.

With Garrett Graham we certainly have a much better chance at running the ball, as long as we take it to the edges and avoid running up the middle at all costs (the strength of their run D). Not only that with the addition of Graham, it will certainly help in our play action game.

Tailgate
01-09-2013, 01:50 PM
When I said it doesn't matter, it means that Casey needs to be even.

He's quicker than Leach, he should have been there at least a half hard deeper.
In that scenario, even if he gets blown up just the same, Foster still had a little more room to operate.

He decided to squat where he did, he should be able to sustain the blow instead of getting blown up.
He has got to find the best position so as not to get blown up.
It only ends up worse for Casey himself on the block.

If he needed to squat a little sooner, then that's what he should have done.

Foster then can make a decision when and where to cut.
Don't forget that Foster is supposed to be good because he knows to press the heels of his blocker; but those heels cannot go backward.

Fair enough. I am exhausted talking about this play tbh. Taking my above post even further, Graham gives Casey a better chance at getting to the second level block more cleanly.

Graham is a huge addition for us this time around. Very interesting to see what unfolds in the rematch.

76Texan
01-09-2013, 04:03 PM
Fair enough. I am exhausted talking about this play tbh. Taking my above post even further, Graham gives Casey a better chance at getting to the second level block more cleanly.

Graham is a huge addition for us this time around. Very interesting to see what unfolds in the rematch.

That was what I said before that game.
Graham should help.

And I hope we see more of Brooks, at least he and Jones should alternate after every two drives or so. I think he's a better match up with Wilfork and Love.

Textan
01-09-2013, 04:09 PM
Why is the NFL network re-airing something I'd rather forget?
I'm sure NE fans are giddy with its re-airing.

Surreal McCoy
01-09-2013, 04:16 PM
I think the game plan is going to be what it's going to be. I just don't like this, "don't play into their strength" talk. If our strength is running the ball... we need to run the ball.

Play action is a big part of our offense. Works better when we run the ball effectively.

I agree with this. It's effectively showing confidence in your guys to go out an execute as normal. Do the things you've been training to do all year. The Pats surely won't come out and try to be a run first team all the sudden.

Of course to win this way requires excellent execution and concentration for 60 minutes, which is admittedly difficult. That said, at least we'll still be able to blame the 'play calling' if the players don't execute.

:vincepalm:

76Texan
01-09-2013, 04:49 PM
Btw, this is a small bit of info I collect.

Not counting a penalty that might be involved (I don't know of a quick way of doing it.)

The Pats and the Texans both had the same number of pass plays called in the first half (325, I think- I'm not at my PC at the moment) including sacks.

Both Brady and Schaub had the same number of runs (scrambles and QB sneaks).

The Pats had a few more runs (8 I think).

I thought that was interesting since it seems like 99.99 per cent of the people think of the Texans as a run first team, and the Pats as a pass first team.