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BullBlitz
02-03-2013, 08:15 PM
Well this one isn't it because AJ is faster than JJ.

Seriously doubt that AJ can keep up with JJ.

infantrycak
02-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Seriously doubt that AJ can keep up with JJ.

Doubt it all you want. AJ was a collegiate sprint champion (both 60 and 100 meter). JJ not even close. AJ has always been at the top in fastest man competitions in the NFL. JJ has said both publicly and privately (yes I know someone in position to make this assertion) AJ is faster.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if JJ beat AJ to 15 yds down field. AJ has long and deceptive speed. He's a long strider. His primary event was 100 m. He doesn't look as fast as he is. JJ busts returns based on having wiggle and then sufficient speed.

Bottom line Flacco underthrew that ball. Flaccco has a big arm but I tell people all the time there is a ton of discretion in trying to hit a receiver 40 yards down the field. There are lots of reasons it happens. Its funny how people are much less critical of QB's who have bad judgement and consitently overthrow receivers like Carr.

BullBlitz
02-03-2013, 08:51 PM
Doubt it all you want. AJ was a collegiate sprint champion (both 60 and 100 meter). JJ not even close. AJ has always been at the top in fastest man competitions in the NFL. JJ has said both publicly and privately (yes I know someone in position to make this assertion) AJ is faster.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if JJ beat AJ to 15 yds down field. AJ has long and deceptive speed. He's a long strider. His primary event was 100 m. He doesn't look as fast as he is. JJ busts returns based on having wiggle and then sufficient speed.

Bottom line Flacco underthrew that ball. Flaccco has a big arm but I tell people all the time there is a ton of discretion in trying to hit a receiver 40 yards down the field. There are lots of reasons it happens. Its funny how people are much less critical of QB's who have bad judgement and consitently overthrow receivers like Carr.

Thanks. I will.

Texanmike02
02-03-2013, 10:06 PM
That one he was looking for the PI on was pathetic.

But I don't have an issue with Matt under throwing the ball, its how often he under throws regardless how open his receiver is. Joe will throw his receiver open every now & then.


Damn Jacoby Jones all the way. 109 yards.

Acting like Matt doesn't either is just foolish though. Receivers were making plays for flacco. My point was that flacco under throws Jacoby and Jacoby makes a hell of a play. We have one player on our team capable of doing that. Their third received makes that play, oh and Flacco was throwing to open revievers. That TD was a nice throw but the guy had his man clearly beat.

Mike

Textan
02-03-2013, 10:10 PM
Comparing Flacco, a mobile, clutch QB to our sloth called Schaub, seriously?
Wow.

TEXANRED
02-03-2013, 10:14 PM
Flacco threw 3 TD's in the Superbowl. Did Schaub even throw a single TD all post season?

PapaL
02-03-2013, 10:19 PM
Flacco had 32 rushing attempts for 22 yards
Schaub had 21 for -9

I hardly consider either mobile.

dream_team
02-03-2013, 10:37 PM
Flacco threw 3 TD's in the Superbowl. Did Schaub even throw a single TD all post season?

Yes. He threw two.

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 10:38 PM
Acting like Matt doesn't either is just foolish though. Receivers were making plays for flacco. My point was that flacco under throws Jacoby and Jacoby makes a hell of a play. We have one player on our team capable of doing that. Their third received makes that play, oh and Flacco was throwing to open revievers. That TD was a nice throw but the guy had his man clearly beat.

Mike

I don't really want to get into this pile it on Schaub thing. But my answer to why I'll give Flacco a pass on an underthrown ball & not give Schaub that same pass stands.

Flacco has been the better QB in January, in the regular season Matt was clearly the better of the two.

Norg
02-03-2013, 10:41 PM
i used to be the one that said all time

Schaub>>>>Flacco

Schaub was just more of a vet wiser could read Dees very quick pre snap and much faster knew how to go through his reads and knew were to go with the ball

i really cant say that anymore : (


Flacco is now better

thunderkyss
02-03-2013, 11:03 PM
i used to be the one that said all time

Schaub>>>>Flacco

Schaub was just more of a vet wiser could read Dees very quick pre snap and much faster knew how to go through his reads and knew were to go with the ball

i really cant say that anymore : (


Flacco is now better


eh... the story book is still open. To me, being elite is about playing at a high level over a long period of time. I don't think Flacco has done the "long period of time" thing. He's played well, very well in the post season over the last two years. But in the regular season, he's avg.

Schaub has been better than avg since he's been here. The only thing Matt's been missing has been wins, but wins is more of a team thing. Over the last two/three years, his win percentage has been shooting up & I think that's going to continue to trend up as the team continues to get better.

It's hard to believe, but Schaub's only 31 years old. He's still got a lot of time ahead of him. He's going to put together some play off wins & he's going to win a Super Bowl or two.

Texanmike02
02-03-2013, 11:55 PM
Flacco threw 3 TD's in the Superbowl. Did Schaub even throw a single TD all post season?

Jacoby and crab tree took two passes and beasted their way into the end zone. If our receivers made the kind of plays that flaccos did there is no telling how good we could be. Our recieving core flat out doesnt make either of those playd unless AJ makes it.

Mike

GuerillaBlack
02-04-2013, 12:00 AM
The situation I keep reliving is the Rockets; being stuck in mediocrity and fans constantly demanding a "superstar" and then complaining with Morey's attempts failed.

Yeah, we (the Rockets) could have tanked. Tanking has been proven to be the best chance at getting a superstar. Tanking has also led to some of the most pathetic franchises ever (the Bobcats).

Also, how many mid-round qbs have proven to be studs? Russell Wilson is a rookie, you can't call him a stud yet (look at how great Cam and Matt Stafford have been after promising starts). For every Russell Wilson, there are two Kevin Kolbs (or more). Even first round QBs are dangerous (Carr/Ponder/Gabbert).

Stafford has been fine and Cam hit a sophomore slump at the beginning of the year. I'd rather have both.over Schaub. And this isn't really like the Rockets either.

ThaShark316
02-04-2013, 12:30 AM
The situation I keep reliving is the Rockets; being stuck in mediocrity and fans constantly demanding a "superstar" and then complaining with Morey's attempts failed.

Yeah, we (the Rockets) could have tanked. Tanking has been proven to be the best chance at getting a superstar. Tanking has also led to some of the most pathetic franchises ever (the Bobcats).

Also, how many mid-round qbs have proven to be studs? Russell Wilson is a rookie, you can't call him a stud yet (look at how great Cam and Matt Stafford have been after promising starts). For every Russell Wilson, there are two Kevin Kolbs (or more). Even first round QBs are dangerous (Carr/Ponder/Gabbert).

...

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 07:45 AM
Stafford has been fine and Cam hit a sophomore slump at the beginning of the year. I'd rather have both over Schaub.

Which is funny. A few years ago, all that matters was the Ws.... now, that's not good enough. Matt's got to look pretty while we win.

You want to give up on a QB who averages 93 QB rating over the last 6 years, 64% completion rating, 20 TD/yr, he's won 75% of his games over the last two years for a guy who cries on the sideline when he's not winning.

I like Cam Newton, I like to watch him play. But just because he's more mobile does not mean we'll win more games. Romo is more mobile than Schaub , Kolb is more mobile than Schaub..... everybody out there is more mobile than Schaub but very few of them have more wins than Schaub over the last two years. Roethlisberger, a SB winning QB doesn't have as many wins as Schaub over the last two years. Schaub has more play off wins than that mobile QB over the last two years.

Trust me, I do not think Schaub is the best QB in the league, or even close. But I would not trade Schaub for a virtually unproven QB that plays a style that has had limited success in this league.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

GuerillaBlack
02-04-2013, 08:36 AM
Which is funny. A few years ago, all that matters was the Ws.... now, that's not good enough. Matt's got to look pretty while we win.

You want to give up on a QB who averages 93 QB rating over the last 6 years, 64% completion rating, 20 TD/yr, he's won 75% of his games over the last two years for a guy who cries on the sideline when he's not winning.

I like Cam Newton, I like to watch him play. But just because he's more mobile does not mean we'll win more games. Romo is more mobile than Schaub , Kolb is more mobile than Schaub..... everybody out there is more mobile than Schaub but very few of them have more wins than Schaub over the last two years. Roethlisberger, a SB winning QB doesn't have as many wins as Schaub over the last two years. Schaub has more play off wins than that mobile QB over the last two years.

Trust me, I do not think Schaub is the best QB in the league, or even close. But I would not trade Schaub for a virtually unproven QB that plays a style that has had limited success in this league.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

See, if we had Newton or Stafford,I believe we would win more games. Put Schaub on Carolina or Detroit and they are worse. He doesng have what it takes to get the team where we want he. He is a backup. Newtown and Stafford are young qbs with much more potential. This is a qb friendly system, where Schaub gets open by himself with no one around him, yet still can't hit a receiver in stride unless he is in Denver, or run for the first down when it is four yards away. Schaub's style of weak-armed, immobile, pocket passer stinks.

I'd love to have him as a backup though.

LonerATO
02-04-2013, 08:52 AM
The situation I keep reliving is the Rockets; being stuck in mediocrity and fans constantly demanding a "superstar" and then complaining with Morey's attempts failed.

Yeah, we (the Rockets) could have tanked. Tanking has been proven to be the best chance at getting a superstar. Tanking has also led to some of the most pathetic franchises ever (the Bobcats).

Also, how many mid-round qbs have proven to be studs? Russell Wilson is a rookie, you can't call him a stud yet (look at how great Cam and Matt Stafford have been after promising starts). For every Russell Wilson, there are two Kevin Kolbs (or more). Even first round QBs are dangerous (Carr/Ponder/Gabbert).

That's on Les for not wanting to actually tear it all down and rebuild all of those years, but they essentially rebuilt the team this year and have a chance at competing in the future.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 09:13 AM
See, if we had Newton or Stafford,I believe we would win more games. Put Schaub on Carolina or Detroit and they are worse. He doesng have what it takes to get the team where we want he. He is a backup. Newtown and Stafford are young qbs with much more potential. This is a qb friendly system, where Schaub gets open by himself with no one around him, yet still can't hit a receiver in stride unless he is in Denver, or run for the first down when it is four yards away. Schaub's style of weak-armed, immobile, pocket passer stinks.

I'd love to have him as a backup though.

If what you're saying is true, Jake Plummer would have won a Super Bowl in Denver. Shanahan would not have had to "adapt" his system to accomodate RG3... heck, Grossman & Beck would have gotten their team into the play offs. Or at least had winning seasons. But they couldn't win more than 6 games in this "system"

There are things that Stafford & Newton can do that Matt can't; but because of those things, there are things they won't do that Matt does & does very well. There will be some games we'll win that we wouldn't have with Matt, but there are going to be games we lose that we wouldn't have with Matt. It's nice to think everything else would have been the same, just add "young mobile QB"

But it don't work that way.

What do we have that Carolina doesn't have? Put Matt Schaub on that team & they win the T.O.P. Their defense gives up less yards, because they aren't on the field. Same thing in Detroit. Ndamukong Suh isn't Jj Watt, but he's much better when he's sitting on the sideline all day & coming in to explode for 3 or 5 minutes every 30 minutes or so.

Chances are that the Panthers are going to bounce back next year & get close to something but the talk is still going to be about Cam Newton needing to get better from the pocket. Stafford has to get better from the pocket. RG3, Wilson, & Kaepernick are going to have to get better from the pocket........ there is no way around it.

& it's not like Matt is "scared" to throw the ball. I know that's what everyone is saying now, but he still threw for 4000 yards, with one WR. Andre had another 1500 yard season.

I know it's just stats, but nobody wants to hear about us winning 12 games in the regular season, or a game in the play offs.

Everything they're saying about Schaub right now was said just 6 weeks ago about last nights Super Bowl MVP. Same things were said about Matt Ryan. Same thing (can't win the big game, don't win in the play offs) was said about Peyton Manning.

I think everyone is just a little too emotional right now. Hopefully by September everyone will get their faith back in Matt Schaub & I can go back to harping on his short comings.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2013, 09:30 AM
Both QBs last night have cannons for arms. I wouldn't say arm strength defines the position, but good grief, they were flinging it practically every throw. Watching these youngins play the QB position the past couple years is really beginning to wear on me. Especially having gone through what we went through the last 4-6 games.

I've never really been for or against Schaub, but it's been getting very hard to keep my balance on the fence lately

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 09:35 AM
Flacco in the playoffs....11 TDs, 0 interceptions and a 124.0 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Give me a break. He is WAY better than Schaub. Once they got rid of Cam Cameron and let him play if kind of ball he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 2 ints. He hadn't thrown an int since December 16th.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Flacco in the playoffs....11 TDs, 0 interceptions and a 124.0 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Give me a break. He is WAY better than Schaub. Once they got rid of Cam Cameron and let him play if kind of ball he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 2 ints. He hadn't thrown an int since December 16th.

I'm not sure anyone's comparing the two anymore. At least not with a straight face. I'd easily take either QB from last night over Schaub

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 09:52 AM
Flacco in the playoffs....11 TDs, 0 interceptions and a 124.0 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Give me a break. He is WAY better than Schaub. Once they got rid of Cam Cameron and let him play if kind of ball he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 2 ints. He hadn't thrown an int since December 16th.

In the play-offs... yeah. I'll give him that. But if he can make that kind of jump in the play-offs, there's no reason to think Matt can't. Again, the same things being said about Matt was said about Flacco just 6 weeks ago & this is after Flacco had a great play-off run last season.

Matt wasn't great in the play offs this season. I understand that. Matt wasn't great in the month of December.... I understand that. What I don't agree with, is the idea that it can't be fixed.

Just an aside, I didn't want to do this, posting stuff I find on another board that isn't related to the Texans, but the situation is similar:
Ok, so answer this.

If Brady had QB'd that game, how many times would he have been sacked?

The Ravens O may not be built to Brady's strength, and it is fit to Flaccos, but it doesn't change the fact that under pressure, Brady turns into a girl and Flacco finds a way to make a play.

Doesn't that sound silly? Brady isn't as mobile as Flacco. Brady doesn't have the big arm that Flacco does... But doesn't that sound silly?

This is an emotional game, I get it. But sometimes I think the emotions get in the way of rational thinking. Matt Schaub has regularly been a better QB than Joe Flacco. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't be a better QB than Flacco in 2013 between the months of September & December.

We don't need to get a new QB, we need to get the QB we have to play better in December & January.

Why didn't Brady play well in the AFC Championship game? Was it because he can't extend plays or doesn't have a rocket laser arm?

HTown2ATX
02-04-2013, 10:17 AM
Wait....I just happened to click to see last couple posts and it appears some people are saying Schaub is somehow in Flacco's class??.....Or they'd rather keep Schaub over Flacco if given the chance? Wow

I assume there must be sarcasm here, maybe I need to go back and read some more.

This is going to be a loooooong off season between the care bear's and realists. Ugh......still tired from last night...for now, I'll just avoid this mess...

Also saying that Joe only plays good in the playoffs....ugh....isn't....isn't that what counts? I'm confused..

:backsout:

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 10:26 AM
I'm not sure anyone's comparing the two anymore. At least not with a straight face. I'd easily take either QB from last night over Schaub

Right. I'd take both over a majority in the league right now...especially Kaepernick. Like him alot

In the play-offs... yeah. I'll give him that. But if he can make that kind of jump in the play-offs, there's no reason to think Matt can't. Again, the same things being said about Matt was said about Flacco just 6 weeks ago & this is after Flacco had a great play-off run last season.

Matt wasn't great in the play offs this season. I understand that. Matt wasn't great in the month of December.... I understand that. What I don't agree with, is the idea that it can't be fixed.

Just an aside, I didn't want to do this, posting stuff I find on another board that isn't related to the Texans, but the situation is similar:


Doesn't that sound silly? Brady isn't as mobile as Flacco. Brady doesn't have the big arm that Flacco does... But doesn't that sound silly?

This is an emotional game, I get it. But sometimes I think the emotions get in the way of rational thinking. Matt Schaub has regularly been a better QB than Joe Flacco. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't be a better QB than Flacco in 2013 between the months of September & December.

We don't need to get a new QB, we need to get the QB we have to play better in December & January.

Why didn't Brady play well in the AFC Championship game? Was it because he can't extend plays or doesn't have a rocket laser arm?

I disagree with what your saying here. The jump Schaub has to make is being able to play well under duress and every year he has had trouble and happy feet with teams who apply heavy pressure. I honestly don't think that's something you fix. I think its an issue that keeps playing out. That is something Flacco's never had an issue with. No one questions that Schaub's passer rating bears out that he plays well within the Texans system when he has time and the play action is working. But when teams slow down the run and he is forced to handle pressure, its a bad situation. I look at Schaub and Flacco as 2 trains....one having it click and raising his game and one regressing as a season went on and having issues that have seemed to build over the seasons. BTW, the playoffs is what counts! Why do you think Aikman is in the HOF. The guys numbers never jumped out at you yardage wise, etc but come playoff time he was one of the most accurate passers in playoff history and he won games without making mistakes. Not putting Flacco there...just saying guys can make careers in the post season.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 10:45 AM
First things first, Matt Schaub doesn't have the physical ability of either QB last night. Not even close. Arm strength - Schaub could NOT have made about 1/2 of the throws Flacco did (hail mary to Jacoby, 3rd down to Boldin). Flacco's arm strength off of his back foot is stronger than Matt's when he's on balance.
Same with Kaepernick - his arm strength and accuracy have already exceeded Schaubs.

The most disheartening thing is that even Flacco has a significantly better ability to extend plays than Schaub. When the pressure is on Matt, he goes into turtle mode or throws the ball away.

It's obvious that if we are ever going to win a SB, we need THE best D in the NFL (ala '02 Bucs, 00 Ravens). And we need a Running game so fierce that our play action WRs are WIDE open.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
And another thing - Matt Schaub did no better than TJ Yates in the playoffs. Schaub is a below average QB in the NFL (I can easily name 16 better than him). It doesn't take an expert to notice that his throws don't have the zip of the top guys.

Now, if only we had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Travis Johnson...

Bulls on Parade
02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody.... Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, whoever. It's a waste of time to be comparing Schaub to Flacco because I believe we would spank the Ravens if we played them. Our defense dominated Flacco and the Ravens offense the last two games we played them -- 2012 regular season in Houston and the 2011 playoffs at Baltimore.

I'm pumped up and excited for the 2013 season to start in September.

Bulls on Parade
02-04-2013, 10:52 AM
It's obvious that if we are ever going to win a SB, we need THE best D in the NFL (ala '02 Bucs, 00 Ravens). And we need a Running game so fierce that our play action WRs are WIDE open.
The good news: That's exactly what I expect to have in 2013. We'll have a healthy Foster and Tate tandem - arguably the best in the league just two years ago. Our defense will be top three again as well.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 11:11 AM
Right. I'd take both over a majority in the league right now...especially Kaepernick. Like him alot



I disagree with what your saying here. The jump Schaub has to make is being able to play well under duress and every year he has had trouble and happy feet with teams who apply heavy pressure. I honestly don't think that's something you fix. I think its an issue that keeps playing out. That is something Flacco's never had an issue with.


Then I must be in bizarro land because I'm sure we said Flacco folds under pressure & our game plan was to pressure him into making mistakes. Then that's exactly what happened when we spanked them in the regular season.



No one questions that Schaub's passer rating bears out that he plays well within the Texans system when he has time and the play action is working. But when teams slow down the run and he is forced to handle pressure, its a bad situation. I look at Schaub and Flacco as 2 trains....one having it click and raising his game and one regressing as a season went on and having issues that have seemed to build over the seasons.


They both played poor down the stretch. They fired their offensive coordinator because it got so bad. They lost four of their last 5. & Flacco didn't look great in but maybe the last two.


BTW, the playoffs is what counts! Why do you think Aikman is in the HOF. The guys numbers never jumped out at you yardage wise, etc but come playoff time he was one of the most accurate passers in playoff history and he won games without making mistakes. Not putting Flacco there...just saying guys can make careers in the post season.

I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Also look at Brady in the AFCCG. No run game, no defense, receivers couldn't get open, then they were dropping what balls he threw them. Do you think it's time for the Patriots to move on at the QB position?

Brady has been there, done that, so he gets a pass. Matt hasn't, & that's not all on him. We don't know what Matt will do when we get to the play offs next year, just like no one expected Ryan to play as well as he did, no one expected Flacco to play as well as he did.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 11:56 AM
With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody....

I agree, but this is also a big area of concern...WHY do we have to have home field? Ravens did it on the road this year, Giants last year...our team needs to develop the mental toughness to win on the road in big games. That starts with Kubiak and Schaub

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 12:04 PM
I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

But the NFL is evolving in a direction where a team's running game and pass protection are directly correlated with the QB. The ability to audible, slide protection, etc. Teams know that Schaub can't make certain throws, which allows them to focus their defense on the running game. They also know that Schaub hasn't proven that he can be successful when the D knows that it will be a pass. In addition, his complete lack of pocket presence and ability to extend plays allows defenses to tailor their coverages.

Overall, Schaub is just a one trick pony. He is, in my opinion, the least athletic starting QB in the NFL in a league driven by athleticism.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 12:24 PM
But the NFL is evolving in a direction where a team's running game and pass protection are directly correlated with the QB. The ability to audible, slide protection, etc. Teams know that Schaub can't make certain throws, which allows them to focus their defense on the running game. They also know that Schaub hasn't proven that he can be successful when the D knows that it will be a pass. In addition, his complete lack of pocket presence and ability to extend plays allows defenses to tailor their coverages.

Overall, Schaub is just a one trick pony. He is, in my opinion, the least athletic starting QB in the NFL in a league driven by athleticism.

Schaub's got his issues, but the things you describe are not them. He looked fine in 2009 when everyone knew we were going to be throwing the ball. He looked fine vs the Jags & the Lions when everyone knew we were going to be throwing the ball.

His pocket awareness is definitely not an issue, I don't know what you're talking about there.

I've always had issues with his ability to make plays happen off schedule. He isn't successful as often as I'd like for him to be & I've criticized him for giving up on plays too early, too often.

There does appear to be a problem with bright lights & high stakes. I'm just not convinced that he can not step up in those situations. I also don't believe the level of assistance needed from the rest of the team is as high as "we" are saying now.

dream_team
02-04-2013, 12:25 PM
With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody.... Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, whoever. It's a waste of time to be comparing Schaub to Flacco because I believe we would spank the Ravens if we played them. Our defense dominated Flacco and the Ravens offense the last two games we played them -- 2012 regular season in Houston and the 2011 playoffs at Baltimore.

I'm pumped up and excited for the 2013 season to start in September.

I like your optimism. We need more of it in here.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 12:33 PM
His pocket awareness is definitely not an issue, I don't know what you're talking about there.


What I'm referring to is his inability to exit the pocket, sidestep, go forward, etc. Sure, he's mighty good at throwing the ball away the second a defender gets close and not taking sacks. But he doesn't have the eyes in the back of his head that a Manning or Big Ben does.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 12:47 PM
What I'm referring to is his inability to exit the pocket, sidestep, go forward, etc. Sure, he's mighty good at throwing the ball away the second a defender gets close and not taking sacks. But he doesn't have the eyes in the back of his head that a Manning or Big Ben does.

He does plenty of sidestepping, stepping up.... avoiding rushers while staying in the pocket. He can't make a 6 second ordeal of it like those guys, but usually he can find an open guy in that time.

Outside the pocket... yeah, it's time to move on to the next play.

But with what Matt Schaub brings to the table, we can win games. We've done it. When there's no running game, we can win games. We've done it. When the defense isn't bringing it, we can win games. We've done it.

We need all them to step up when the bright lights come on. We need all of them to step up in December.

I don't see Baltimore winning when they get one dimensional, or when their defense has a bad day. I don't see the Patriots winning in the play offs when they get one dimensional, or when their defense has an off day. We are not special in that respect.

Go to the Patriots forum & read all the threads from the last two weeks. Believe it or not, it's awful similar to what we're saying here & they are just as far off & knee jerk as we are here.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 01:10 PM
Then I must be in bizarro land because I'm sure we said Flacco folds under pressure & our game plan was to pressure him into making mistakes. Then that's exactly what happened when we spanked them in the regular season.




They both played poor down the stretch. They fired their offensive coordinator because it got so bad. They lost four of their last 5. & Flacco didn't look great in but maybe the last two.



I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Also look at Brady in the AFCCG. No run game, no defense, receivers couldn't get open, then they were dropping what balls he threw them. Do you think it's time for the Patriots to move on at the QB position?

Brady has been there, done that, so he gets a pass. Matt hasn't, & that's not all on him. We don't know what Matt will do when we get to the play offs next year, just like no one expected Ryan to play as well as he did, no one expected Flacco to play as well as he did.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

Hervoyel
02-04-2013, 01:10 PM
I agree, but this is also a big area of concern...WHY do we have to have home field? Ravens did it on the road this year, Giants last year...our team needs to develop the mental toughness to win on the road in big games. That starts with Kubiak and Schaub


That's the grail right there. The mentality to win regardless of the environment. Everyone wants that and almost no one ever achieves it. The idea is I think that if you reach that point then you probably end up with home field advantage simply as a result of being able to go into other teams stadiums and win during the regular season.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 01:26 PM
That's the grail right there. The mentality to win regardless of the environment. Everyone wants that and almost no one ever achieves it. The idea is I think that if you reach that point then you probably end up with home field advantage simply as a result of being able to go into other teams stadiums and win during the regular season.

Giants reached that point and haven't had home field. Same w/ Ravens. But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

Surreal McCoy
02-04-2013, 01:31 PM
Giants reached that point and haven't had home field. Same w/ Ravens. But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

FFS Please tell me you're joking?
:mariopalm:

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 01:42 PM
You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

For years, Matt has been one of the better QBs in the league, despite his limitations & Tom Brady looked just as bad as Schaub in the AFC Championship game. A lot of what we're saying about Schaub right now, is being said about Brady on Patsfan, right now. They are talking about not throwing downfield, they are talking about not being able to make plays outside of the pocket.

I'm not saying that Matt is in the same league with Brady. I understand the anger if that's what you're thinking I'm saying. I am saying Brady couldn't carry his team to a victory in the play offs playing play off competition. He needed his defense to play better. He needed his pass protection to play better. He needed his receivers & the run game to be better than what it was.

Collin Kaepernick couldn't get it done without his defense playing like a top 5 defense for 60 minutes.

Flacco wouldn't be the Super Bowl MVP if his defense hadn't shown up or his running game wasn't there, or if his receivers dropped as many balls as Brady's receivers.

A QB can win a game in the regular season. A QB could win one of those two games we lost down the stretch.... Minny & Indy. But a QB isn't going to carry a team to a Super Bowl Championship. Peyton hasn't done it. McNabb couldn't do it. Elway couldn't do it. It's never happened before & it won't happen for Matt Schaub.

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

The coordinator was fired because he wasn't using Ray Rice enough. Flacco never had a lack of opportunity to throw the ball downfield. The biggest thing that attributed to Flacco's play off performance was probably the rearranging of the OL.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 01:45 PM
But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

The Ravens lost 4 of their last 5.

steelbtexan
02-04-2013, 01:52 PM
You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

Yep Schaub and Flacco are 2 trains going in opposite directions.

Schaub has never been mobile or had a strong arm. But since his foot injury he cant navigate the pocket and has lost accuracy. There's a corralation between the problems and the foot injury. IMHO Fiddler/Thunderkyss disagrres with me about this. It's obvious to me and this yr is probably about as good as it's going to get for Schaub. Scary as we look into the future.

BTW TK, Mario is still an overpaid slacker. LOL

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 01:54 PM
BTW TK, Mario is still an overpaid slacker. LOL

Hate the game, not the player.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 02:06 PM
For years, Matt has been one of the better QBs in the league, despite his limitations & Tom Brady looked just as bad as Schaub in the AFC Championship game. A lot of what we're saying about Schaub right now, is being said about Brady on Patsfan, right now. They are talking about not throwing downfield, they are talking about not being able to make plays outside of the pocket.

I'm not saying that Matt is in the same league with Brady. I understand the anger if that's what you're thinking I'm saying. I am saying Brady couldn't carry his team to a victory in the play offs playing play off competition. He needed his defense to play better. He needed his pass protection to play better. He needed his receivers & the run game to be better than what it was.

Collin Kaepernick couldn't get it done without his defense playing like a top 5 defense for 60 minutes.

Flacco wouldn't be the Super Bowl MVP if his defense hadn't shown up or his running game wasn't there, or if his receivers dropped as many balls as Brady's receivers.

A QB can win a game in the regular season. A QB could win one of those two games we lost down the stretch.... Minny & Indy. But a QB isn't going to carry a team to a Super Bowl Championship. Peyton hasn't done it. McNabb couldn't do it. Elway couldn't do it. It's never happened before & it won't happen for Matt Schaub.


The coordinator was fired because he wasn't using Ray Rice enough. Flacco never had a lack of opportunity to throw the ball downfield. The biggest thing that attributed to Flacco's play off performance was probably the rearranging of the OL.

Flacco and Cameron butted heads all the time and Flacco was not a fan. Their offense was dated and predictable. He didn't use Rice but they also didn't test defenses effectively with Smith and Jones because of not using Rice. There was no room for play action. Once that changed under Caldwell, you saw what he was capable of. My point being he had room to improve because much of what was happening was their play calling. With Schaub its more "can he get it downfield" and "can he stay clean and still make plays." As we saw last night Flacco can avoid a rush.

As far as a QB needing all of those things....there is a reason a majority of SB winners have top Qbs leading the. The history of the league shows this. Most are on great teams who have other talent but a large majority need a top QB. Even with a great defense, etc if Schaub is playing elite level teams, he has issues and that is a major ? He is a smart guy that fits in a system like Houston's perfectly but I think his limitations put a ceiling on their chances. JMO

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 02:19 PM
As far as a QB needing all of those things....there is a reason a majority of SB winners have top Qbs leading the. The history of the league shows this. Most are on great teams who have other talent but a large majority need a top QB.

& 6 weeks ago, Joe Flacco wasn't a "great" QB. Matt Ryan was far from it. The opinion of those two QBs wouldn't have changed if their run games & defenses didn't show up.

Matt's run game & defense didn't show up.



Even with a great defense, etc if Schaub is playing elite level teams, he has issues and that is a major ? He is a smart guy that fits in a system like Houston's perfectly but I think his limitations put a ceiling on their chances. JMO

& that's fine. I understand the questions. Like I said, I've been criticizing Schaub for years, but this year it's gotten ridiculous & I think people are going over board exaggerating some of his weaknesses.

If the foot is an issue, I can understand but I'm not seeing any evidence that his foot is the problem & if it were, I don't see him playing in the Pro Bowl, especially not as much as he did.

If the defense played at a high level & the offensive line/running game played at a high level & Matt Schaub played like he did... I would agree that Matt has to go, that Matt can't get it done.

Not being able to beat the Patriots in the regular season & a virtual repeat of that game in the post season tells us our problems are way deeper than Matt Schaub.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 02:29 PM
The Ravens lost 4 of their last 5.

What I mean was those teams were finally healthy heading into the playoffs, on an upward trend. Wins and Losses don't always fully represent a team's performance.

Say all you guys want about systems, but the fact of the matter is Schaub has very sub-par arm strength with about average accuracy. Well below average mobility, average decision making. Zero charisma. Rarely breaks tackles. Maybe slightly above average throwing on the run (again, to wide open receivers in a system that caters to that)

At best, he is mediocre. Maybe we can win a SB with a mediocre QB. But Mediocre QBs don't win more than 1 super bowl, that is a fact.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 02:32 PM
& 6 weeks ago, Joe Flacco wasn't a "great" QB. Matt Ryan was far from it. The opinion of those two QBs wouldn't have changed if their run games & defenses didn't show up.

Matt's run game & defense didn't show up.




& that's fine. I understand the questions. Like I said, I've been criticizing Schaub for years, but this year it's gotten ridiculous & I think people are going over board exaggerating some of his weaknesses.

If the foot is an issue, I can understand but I'm not seeing any evidence that his foot is the problem & if it were, I don't see him playing in the Pro Bowl, especially not as much as he did.

If the defense played at a high level & the offensive line/running game played at a high level & Matt Schaub played like he did... I would agree that Matt has to go, that Matt can't get it done.

Not being able to beat the Patriots in the regular season & a virtual repeat of that game in the post season tells us our problems are way deeper than Matt Schaub.

Ryan had a Pro Bowl year and was playing well for a large part of the year. 32 TDs, 14 ints, 4719 yards and a 99 rating isn't shabby. 5th rated passer in the league. They were a #1 seed. He had some bad games but overall a damn good year.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 02:35 PM
What I mean was those teams were finally healthy heading into the playoffs, on an upward trend. Wins and Losses don't always fully represent a team's performance.

Say all you guys want about systems, but the fact of the matter is Schaub has very sub-par arm strength with about average accuracy. Well below average mobility, average decision making. Zero charisma. Rarely breaks tackles. Maybe slightly above average throwing on the run (again, to wide open receivers in a system that caters to that)

At best, he is mediocre. Maybe we can win a SB with a mediocre QB. But Mediocre QBs don't win more than 1 super bowl, that is a fact.

Well see. Mediocre QBs don't normally turn in 5 years of the numbers Matt has put up, even in this system. Yes, his performance in the big games is the only real question here & we'll see how that goes in the future.

All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Schaub had a Pro Bowl year and was playing well for a large part of the year. 22 TDs, 12 ints, 4008 yards and a 90 rating isn't shabby. 9th rated passer in the league. They were a #1 seed. He had some bad games but overall a damn good year.

Fixed it for ya.

bOODRO87
02-04-2013, 02:39 PM
FFS Please tell me you're joking?
:mariopalm:

We did probably the worst thing we could have going into the playoffs. Two chances to clinch HFA and couldn't do it. Nothing to smile about at all.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Well see. Mediocre QBs don't normally turn in 5 years of the numbers Matt has put up, even in this system. Yes, his performance in the big games is the only real question here & we'll see how that goes in the future.

All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"
Schaub being an elite QB is nonsense. Or even close to being "elite". He's a better than average guy and if you like average, you'll love Schaub.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 02:44 PM
All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"

So if his arm strength is "elite" then he is in the top, say, 1/6th of the league in that category? So top 5 or 6? No chance. In no particular order, some QBs who have significantly better arm strength than Schaub (since there is no definitive metric for arm strength, lets just use the old "eye test") : Rodgers, Brady, Flacco, both Mannings, Brees, Cutler, Luck, RG3, Vick, Big Ben, Romo, Stafford, Freeman, Kaepernick, JaMarcus Russell (lol)...you get the point.

Just watch those players throw the deep ball, or short bullets. Then watch Schaub. If you actually think Schaub has "elite" arm strength, idk what to say. Having completions to a receiver that is wide-open for 40 yards, on an underthrown ball, doesn't mean you have good arm strength.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 02:52 PM
Schaub being an elite QB is nonsense. Or even close to being "elite". He's a better than average guy and if you like average, you'll love Schaub.

I disagree with him being above average. 32 starting QBs in the NFL, can you say you would rather have Schaub on your team for the future than 16 of them? He's 31 years old. Right now he may be average, but look at other QBs.

Rodgers (no debate)
Brady " "
Peyton " "
Brees " "
Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "
Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 02:54 PM
Having completions to a receiver that is wide-open for 40 yards, on an underthrown ball, doesn't mean you have good arm strength.

No, he doesn't have elite arm strength, or elite mobility. Didn't mean to say that (I see where I did, just didn't mean to).

He's produced at an elite level, so arm strength & mobility is not an issue. He's found a way to make what he's got work for him.

He hasn't produced as much in the win column, but that's changing. He hasn't produced in the post season like the elites... but I think that will be changing in the near future as well.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 02:57 PM
I disagree with him being above average. 32 starting QBs in the NFL, can you say you would rather have Schaub on your team for the future than 16 of them? He's 31 years old. Right now he may be average, but look at other QBs.

Rodgers (no debate)
Brady " "
Peyton " "
Brees " "
Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "
Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.
We're pretty much saying the same thing. Mediocre is average. Just because there are 15 good to plus QB's in the NFL doesn't mean that Schaub is an awful QB.....I just call him above average as in he's really not all that.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 02:58 PM
He hasn't produced as much in the win column, but that's changing. He hasn't produced in the post season like the elites... but I think that will be changing in the near future as well.

I hope you are right, and if he turns in a flacco-esque performance I will be the first to credit you.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 02:59 PM
Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "


Matt belongs in this group.


Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.

That's just silly. Take all of those guys, put them here in this system & there's no guarantee they will have a 5 year stretch comparable to what Schaub had.

It's a toss up & a gamble with each & every one of them. Physically, yeah, they're all more gifted than Schaub, but Romo, Cutler, Rivers, & Freeman have already shown not to have the snap Schaub has between the ears. Each one of those guys have had teams as talented as Schaub, only Rivers has achieved more.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2013, 03:00 PM
Fixed it for ya.

What was there to fix?

You stated Ryan had a bad year and was far from a great QB. You were wrong. Stop just throwing out whatever and seeing if it sticks. 10 more TDs with only 2 more ints.

So Schaub was farther down the list. Right? What does that prove? It proves that his second half was really worse than it seems and that he has trouble with his arm and moving in the pocket. There is nothing really to argue. Flacco > Schaub. Ryan > Schaub right now. Not sure what your arguing. Players going up and players going down the last 2 years.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 03:04 PM
Matt belongs in this group.



That's just silly. Take all of those guys, put them here in this system & there's no guarantee they will have a 5 year stretch comparable to what Schaub had.

It's a toss up & a gamble with each & every one of them. Physically, yeah, they're all more gifted than Schaub, but Romo, Cutler, Rivers, & Freeman have already shown not to have the snap Schaub has between the ears. Each one of those guys have had teams as talented as Schaub, only Rivers has achieved more.
Shaub hasn't won jack squat in 5 years. Garbage time stats or not.

Luv_ya_blue
02-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Bottom line for me is this...

Schaub can't make the throws that the far greater majority of NFL caliber QBs can. He's not accurate and has a noodle arm. He wouldn't have 1/2 the stats that he does on any given season if his WRs didn't pull rabbits out of the hat to make the catch. And NO, I don't think that the same can be said for other QBs as a general rule.

Schaub is gonna make a speedy check-down and if for some ungodly reason he's flushed from the pocket, he's looking to unload the ball and makes me nervous because he often barely has the arm strength to get the ball out of bounds.

As to the nature of the gripe that the defense & offense had problems as a whole as well...

ON THE SEASON:
Total Offense (YPG):
49ers
Falcons
Patriots
Seahawks
Texans

Passing (YPG):
Patriots
Falcons
Texans
Ravens
Broncos

Rushing (YPG):
49ers
Seahawks
Vikings
Colts
Ravens

Total Defense (YPG):
Seahawks
Vikings
Texans
Redskins
Patriots

Passing (YPG):
Redskins
Seahawks
Packers
Texans
Vikings

Rushing (YPG):
Vikings
49ers
Texans
Patriots
Seahawks

There's no doubt that we went into the postseason as cold as a cucumber...but that's just an excuse. All of the intangibles were there. No since crying over spilled milk at this juncture--but it doesn't change the fact that there are a whole boatload of us that don't believe that Schaubie baby and Wary Gary are gonna lead us to the promised land.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 03:08 PM
So you would just as well have Schaub than Luck or Wilson or RG3 or Kap? Come on...

Cutler has achieved more than Schaub.

Schaub has Andre Johnson and had one of the best run games in the NFL. He also has arguably the best LT in the NFL.

I mean I hate to rip on the guy so much, but name ONE starting QB in the NFL who is less athletic than Schaub! Name one definitely has less arm strength than Schaub! There may be a couple, but not many.

For the love of God, could Schaub not modify his throwing mechanics / get in the weight room every once in awhile? He looks like an average Joe, not an elite athlete. Brady didn't have a cannon in '01, but he is constantly working on his throwing motion and has developed a rocket arm. Get to work Matt, because we are stuck with you.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
So you would just as well have Schaub than Luck or Wilson or RG3 or Kap? Come on...

Cutler has achieved more than Schaub.

Schaub has Andre Johnson and had one of the best run games in the NFL. He also has arguably the best LT in the NFL.

I mean I hate to rip on the guy so much, but name ONE starting QB in the NFL who is less athletic than Schaub! Name one definitely has less arm strength than Schaub! There may be a couple, but not many.

For the love of God, could Schaub not modify his throwing mechanics / get in the weight room every once in awhile? He looks like an average Joe, not an elite athlete. Brady didn't have a cannon in '01, but he is constantly working on his throwing motion and has developed a rocket arm. Get to work Matt, because we are stuck with you.
weight room isn't going to increase his throwing mechanics or his deep ball. Arm strength pretty much is what it is. Brady doesn't have a big arm...he just anticipates better and hits guys on the run better. If I had to count the times where Andre has to stop and wait on the ball....

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 03:37 PM
Weight room to make him harder to bring down / more agile (ala Big Ben)

And Brady has an absolute cannon. Top five most powerful arms in the NFL (along w/ Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Flacco)

Vinny
02-04-2013, 03:50 PM
Weight room to make him harder to bring down / more agile (ala Big Ben)

And Brady has an absolute cannon. Top five most powerful arms in the NFL (along w/ Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Flacco)The weight room isn't going to turn 30yo Shaub into Big Ben....the weight room won't turn middle aged guy more agile either. He is what he is.

Porky
02-04-2013, 04:27 PM
Manning doesn't have a huge arm either - not even in his heyday. Joe Montana probably didn't have any better arm than Schaub. What the elite guys do that Schaub and medicore guys of his ilk can't do is lead guys and anticipate where to go with the ball down to which shoulder to throw too etc.

Look at Manning and Brady and how they set up their guy to get major YAC in abundance. I can't even imagine the stats that AJ would have right now if he had been drafted by NE in 2003 instead of Houston. My God. How many times does AJ have to wait on the freaking ball while slow as a slug Matt and his slow release gets wound up so he can under-throw the ball.

I've thought up until the 2nd half of this year Matt was flirting with top 10 but maybe just on the outside looking in. No longer. The guy has regressed, and has now proven he can't play on the big stage. I would put him closer to #20 than #10 now, and you aren't going to win big with that kind of guy with any real consistency. I think Hasselbeck is the perfect comparison.

And here is another issue. How many games have Brady, Manning, and the other more elite QB's missed in their career. Let's face it, Schaub is brittle. It's just a matter of time before he misses a lot of games again.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 04:53 PM
What was there to fix?

You stated Ryan had a bad year and was far from a great QB. You were wrong. Stop just throwing out whatever and seeing if it sticks. 10 more TDs with only 2 more ints.

I said before this years play offs, Ryan, Flacco, & Schaub were in the same boat. They were all eh..... nothing special. If the Falcons/Ravens defense/running game/receivers didn't step up those guys would be thought of the same as Schaub..... eh, nothing special.

Ryan was thought to not be able to win in the post season. That obviously changed.

He also had a great play off run & is squarely ahead of Schaub because of it. Flacco has been off the chart for two post seasons in a row so yes he's definitely ahead of Schaub as well.

My point, was they were thought of about the same 6 weeks ago. Matt & his team did not step up their game like they did. We'll see what happens next year when Matt & the Texans get to the post season again.

This was neither the Ravens' or the Falcons' first trip to the play offs. They failed multiple times same as the Texans, so it's not the end of the world for the Texans or Matt Schaub. It would have been nice if the Texans could have gone all the way to the championship game or beyond like Aaron Rogers & the Packers (#2 defense took it to another level) or Sean Peyton & the Saints (Colston went off), or Harbaugh & his 49ers (Alex Smith stepped it up), or Sanchez & the Jets (#2 running game showed up, #2 defense showed up)...... but we didn't. Our QB didn't show up, our running game didn't show up, our defense didn't show up.

But for some reason everyone wants to replace the QB.


So Schaub was farther down the list. Right? What does that prove? It proves that his second half was really worse than it seems and that he has trouble with his arm and moving in the pocket. There is nothing really to argue. Flacco > Schaub. Ryan > Schaub right now. Not sure what your arguing. Players going up and players going down the last 2 years.

All I'm saying, is that it isn't time to close the book on Schaub.

Porky
02-04-2013, 04:56 PM
Bottom line is the owner, GM, and HC are disrespecting the other 52 players on this team by not putting a QB in place that can give them a chance to win a championship. As long as they defend and stick with Matt, key free agents wont want to come here, and existing talent will not want to stay. Players know the problem and the organization looks like fools for not addressing it.

How many more years of failure do we as fans have to tolerate? As I said before, as long as the Texans keep Schaub they wont get a penny from me. I will still want my home team to do well, but I will not support the ignorance that is running rampant in this organization as it relates to the QB position.

We have a team that can win ... but not with Schaub. Either make a commitment to excellence or do something else and hand the team over to people who want to win, and are capable of making the decisions needed to do so .... McNair ...... Smith ..... Kubiak ....

Not gonna happen. Mcnair is as Milquetoast and patient and calm and steady as it gets. He will not make a bold move because bold moves have the potential to backfire. He is steady as she goes.

In short if Bob Mcnair were captain of the Titanic, the result would have been the same. No panic. I know that might be an iceberg ahead, just make a subtle move port side. Don't turn hard. We don't want to upset the passengers in steerage with the waves.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 05:11 PM
Manning doesn't have a huge arm either - not even in his heyday. Joe Montana probably didn't have any better arm than Schaub. What the elite guys do that Schaub and medicore guys of his ilk can't do is lead guys and anticipate where to go with the ball down to which shoulder to throw too etc.

Look at Manning and Brady and how they set up their guy to get major YAC in abundance. I can't even imagine the stats that AJ would have right now if he had been drafted by NE in 2003 instead of Houston. My God. How many times does AJ have to wait on the freaking ball while slow as a slug Matt and his slow release gets wound up so he can under-throw the ball.

I've thought up until the 2nd half of this year Matt was flirting with top 10 but maybe just on the outside looking in. No longer. The guy has regressed, and has now proven he can't play on the big stage. I would put him closer to #20 than #10 now, and you aren't going to win big with that kind of guy with any real consistency. I think Hasselbeck is the perfect comparison.

And here is another issue. How many games have Brady, Manning, and the other more elite QB's missed in their career. Let's face it, Schaub is brittle. It's just a matter of time before he misses a lot of games again.

Both the Mannings have helluvarm..... that's the only thing I disagree with in this post. I have absolutely no problem with this kind of criticism, because it is spot on.

Matt's arm is not the problem, his mobility is not the problem. Guys with big arms & extra mobility are a dime a dozen & will come & go before guys like Schaub are out of the league.

Matt's anticipation is no better today than it was in 2007. If his chemistry with Andre is any better, I find it hard to see evidence of it. His placement skills are way below where it should be (I think) for a guy who's played as long as he has with the guys that he's been throwing to (he's been throwing to Andre, OD, & Walter since 2007). & of course there are questions about his leadership. I don't necessarily need to see him yelling at people or making an a55 of himself on TV. But I'd like to see him talking to a receiver (WR, TE, FB, RB..... don't matter) from time to time on the sideline talking about what went wrong, what went right & seeing them get on the same page later in the game.

Complaining about his arm strength or his mobility is just begging him to be somebody we know he won't ever be. To me you're just saying, "Man I really like what these unproven QBs, playing a style that has proven to be a dead end, bring to the table. No one has ever won a Super Bowl playing like that but I'd love to waste the next 5 years trying."

& I'm not down with that. Sorry.

Oh, & I don't agree that Matt has proven that he can't take us to the Super Bowl either.

Yesterday
02-04-2013, 05:15 PM
I said before this years play offs, Ryan, Flacco, & Schaub were in the same boat. They were all eh..... nothing special. If the Falcons/Ravens defense/running game/receivers didn't step up those guys would be thought of the same as Schaub..... eh, nothing special.

Ryan was thought to not be able to win in the post season. That obviously changed.

He also had a great play off run & is squarely ahead of Schaub because of it. Flacco has been off the chart for two post seasons in a row so yes he's definitely ahead of Schaub as well.

My point, was they were thought of about the same 6 weeks ago.

Thought of about the same 6 weeks ago by who? So you are basing your entire opinion of a QB based on 2 games? Maybe they were in similar boats based solely on accomplishments. But skill wise, it isn't, and has never been, close.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 06:12 PM
Matt's arm is not the problem, his mobility is not the problem. Guys with big arms & extra mobility are a dime a dozen & will come & go before guys like Schaub are out of the league.
Name some of them. Name some guys with big arms and mobility that are starting currently that will be out of the league long before Schaub.

Also, find an account and post from one account. This is getting ridiculous.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 07:07 PM
Matt's arm is not the problem, his mobility is not the problem. Guys with big arms & extra mobility are a dime a dozen & will come & go before guys like Schaub are out of the league.



I agree with you about Matt's arm. Plenty of QB's haven't "big" arms but I really disagree with the mobility part of your post. Matt Schaub makes Drew Bledsoe look like a world class sprinter in comparison.

*EDIT*

Two examples just came to mind.
A) Ken Stabler. He wasn't known for a rocket arm, but he sure was mobile which allowed him to extend plays.
B) Fran Tarkenton (see A)

Jules Winnfield
02-04-2013, 07:16 PM
So you would just as well have Schaub than Luck or Wilson or RG3 or Kap? Come on...

Cutler has achieved more than Schaub.

Schaub has Andre Johnson and had one of the best run games in the NFL. He also has arguably the best LT in the NFL.

I mean I hate to rip on the guy so much, but name ONE starting QB in the NFL who is less athletic than Schaub! Name one definitely has less arm strength than Schaub! There may be a couple, but not many.

For the love of God, could Schaub not modify his throwing mechanics / get in the weight room every once in awhile? He looks like an average Joe, not an elite athlete. Brady didn't have a cannon in '01, but he is constantly working on his throwing motion and has developed a rocket arm. Get to work Matt, because we are stuck with you.


there's always an excuse when it comes to schaub. His repugnant apologists want every condition in schaub's favor until they hold him accountable.

schau doesnt have strong arm and is not very athletic so you would think you can depend on his smarts, decision making, leadership, calmness to compensate for his physical liabilities.

The problem with schaub is he's not very good at those either.

So what do we have with schaub?

A guy who is not mobile at all, has a weak arm, no leadership skills, not very calm in the pocket when it breaks down, and has horrible decision making skills.

IF you dont have it physically, you should have it mentally.

Schaub has neither yet the front office and some texan fans still dont want to give up on him and feel like its such an arduous task to find a replacement whose better.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 07:17 PM
So you would just as well have Schaub than Luck or Wilson or RG3 or Kap? Come on...


Dude..... Oliver Luck sucked! :tiphat:

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 07:33 PM
Name some of them. Name some guys with big arms and mobility that are starting currently that will be out of the league long before Schaub.


Kaepernick & Wilson

I'll even go retro, Jason Campbell, David Carr, Michael Vick (the second time), Tim Tebow, Kevin Kolb, Chad Henne, Derek Anderson, Vince Young, Bruce Gradkowski,

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 07:37 PM
IF you dont have it physically, you should have it mentally.

Schaub has neither yet the front office and some texan fans still dont want to give up on him and feel like its such an arduous task to find a replacement whose better.

just because you say it, doesn't make it so.

Jules Winnfield
02-04-2013, 07:37 PM
Kaepernick & Wilson

I'll even go retro, Jason Campbell, David Carr, Michael Vick (the second time), Tim Tebow, Kevin Kolb, Chad Henne, Derek Anderson, Vince Young, Bruce Gradkowski,


lol wut?

those guys are about to be franchise level qbs.

Jules Winnfield
02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
just because you say it, doesn't make it so.

so you think matt is a great leader who makes great decisions, has a lot of moxie, and is very cagey in the pocket who is a beast physically?

Texecutioner
02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
Bottom line is the owner, GM, and HC are disrespecting the other 52 players on this team by not putting a QB in place that can give them a chance to win a championship.

Yeah, well show someone where the players feel that way?? Stop making stuff up and prove this for a change. The other 52 players are always giving Schaub support and displaying confidence in him and have for years. You may see it that way, but the players don't. And why aren't you throwing a hissy fit over the players being disrespected over the lack of WR's on this team or the average kicker that we have? If you'd actually analyze all aspects of this team instead of one player that you seem to be obsessed with, people might actually take you seriously.

As long as they defend and stick with Matt, key free agents wont want to come here, and existing talent will not want to stay. Players know the problem and the organization looks like fools for not addressing it.

Key free agents will go where they can get paid and where they have a chance to win. The Texans being in the playoffs for two straight seasons helps that a lot, and all season long there were a lot of players around the league giving the Texans a lot of props and saying great things about this organization. You're way off with this statement above.

How many more years of failure do we as fans have to tolerate? As I said before, as long as the Texans keep Schaub they wont get a penny from me. I will still want my home team to do well, but I will not support the ignorance that is running rampant in this organization as it relates to the QB position.

Well, you might as well not pay attention for a few years then, because the Texans aren't doing anything with Schaub for a while. And while you're talking about failure here, I guess every other team in the league failed the same way as the Texans did including the 49ers. God, those Niner fans sure as hell shouldn't accept the failure they got this season and neither should the Falcons. Lol!

THe Texans had a pretty strong run this season and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. They had a pretty successful season.

We have a team that can win ... but not with Schaub. Either make a commitment to excellence or do something else and hand the team over to people who want to win, and are capable of making the decisions needed to do so .... McNair ...... Smith ..... Kubiak ....

Until the team finds a suitable replacement for Schaub they won't be finding a guy "that can win" according to your standards. Schaub won a lot of games this season, but it seems like the only way that you're happy is if they're 16-0 or a SB winner. Anything else is total and utter failure. It must suck to be you as far as being a fan goes then, because under those standards most fans would only be happy every 20 years or so.

Jules Winnfield
02-04-2013, 07:43 PM
Yeah, well show someone where the players feel that way?? Stop making stuff up and prove this for a change. The other 52 players are always giving Schaub support and displaying confidence in him and have for years. You may see it that way, but the players don't. And why aren't you throwing a hissy fit over the players being disrespected over the lack of WR's on this team or the average kicker that we have? If you'd actually analyze all aspects of this team instead of one player that you seem to be obsessed with, people might actually take you seriously.



Key free agents will go where they can get paid and where they have a chance to win. The Texans being in the playoffs for two straight seasons helps that a lot, and all season long there were a lot of players around the league giving the Texans a lot of props and saying great things about this organization. You're way off with this statement above.



Well, you might as well not pay attention for a few years then, because the Texans aren't doing anything with Schaub for a while. And while you're talking about failure here, I guess every other team in the league failed the same way as the Texans did including the 49ers. God, those Niner fans sure as hell shouldn't accept the failure they got this season and neither should the Falcons. Lol!

THe Texans had a pretty strong run this season and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. They had a pretty successful season.



Until the team finds a suitable replacement for Schaub they won't be finding a guy "that can win" according to your standards. Schaub won a lot of games this season, but it seems like the only way that you're happy is if they're 16-0 or a SB winner. Anything else is total and utter failure. It must suck to be you as far as being a fan goes then, because under those standards most fans would only be happy every 20 years or so.



you must be the biggest matt schaub stan in this entire site.

"His teammates support him"

smdh are you seriously gonna use that line? What else are they suppose to say?

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 07:48 PM
lol wut?

those guys are about to be franchise level qbs.

We'll see.

so you think matt is a great leader who makes great decisions, has a lot of moxie, and is very cagey in the pocket who is a beast physically?

No. Matt needs to take his game to the next level. But he's got a lot more than what you're giving him credit for. There's no way he could have done what he's done if you're correct.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 07:49 PM
you must be the biggest matt schaub stan in this entire site.

"His teammates support him"

smdh are you seriously gonna use that line? What else are they suppose to say?

No... Actually he is not the biggest "Matt Schaub stan on this entire site" but for you to suggest that Schaub's "teamates support him" as an untruth is completely and utterly ludicrous. It's well known and well documented that his teamates totally trust him, respect him and consider him a leader.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 08:11 PM
Its the company line .... period.


Period??? Why???? Because you say so?? Asinine!!!

What??? Are you "that guy" that knows "a guy" in the locker room"? :rolleyes:


Company line my ass. Ask any of them in person, if you're a good judge of "company line" or genuine respect. Aren't we (or you) at a place where we can tell "company line" from sincere thoughts? I feel sorry for so many people that cyniscm rules their lives.

Sad really!

Wolf
02-04-2013, 08:30 PM
Matt is Matt

I would think he has respect of teammates ESP after last season ,missing OTAs and organizing a players only practice to get back into the swing of things.

But some want I continue the witch hunt even when we know that he isn't going anywhere

Honoring Earl 34
02-04-2013, 08:32 PM
Period??? Why???? Because you say so?? Asinine!!!

What??? Are you "that guy" that knows "a guy" in the locker room"? :rolleyes:


Company line my ass. Ask any of them in person, if you're a good judge of "company line" or genuine respect. Aren't we (or you) at a place where we can tell "company line" from sincere thoughts? I feel sorry for so many people that cyniscm rules their lives.

Sad really!

The only thing that can be said about Schaub is , has he hit his ceiling .

Wolf
02-04-2013, 08:33 PM
The only thing that can be said about Schaub is , has he hit his ceiling .

Agreed

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 09:06 PM
The only thing that can be said about Schaub is , has he hit his ceiling .

Are you saying, "He has hit his ceiling"?

Or are you asking, "Has he hit his ceiling"?

I don't know that he has hit his ceiling. I don't know that Andre has hit his ceiling, or that Antonio has hit his ceiling, or that Myers has hit his. They all needed to step up their game in the play offs & did not.

We'll see if they've grown as players & leaders in 2013, then again in the play-offs.

Texecutioner
02-04-2013, 10:06 PM
"His teammates support him"

smdh are you seriously gonna use that line? What else are they suppose to say?

Well yes I am when the statement I'm refuting is that the Texans organization is disrespecting the rest of the team by keeping Schaub on this team. When his teammates regularly talk highly of Schaub and express full confidence in him, it's hard to call them "disrespected." Is it completely impossible to believe that some if not a lot of Schaub's teammates might actually want him on this team? They haven't ever said otherwise like when we have seen in other cases with different teams.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 10:13 PM
The only thing that can be said about Schaub is , has he hit his ceiling .

Jup!! No argument from me... That said all these arguments pro or con for the guy, these people are stupid for arguing over him because they're stuck with him for at least a couple/few years over his deal... Whether they like it or not..

I'm not sure why the hatred goes towards Matt himself and NOT the FO that signed him to the extension. WTF???

I'm not sure why the hatred goes towards Matt Schaub and the fact that he hasn't really had any new weapons..

.......................

Whatever... Put everything on Schaub if that completes your short-sighted thought of this Texans past season.. Perhaps those of you that think that way should revisit the defense and special teams......

Of course many of you are way to mentally limited to put ALL THINGS into perspective!

Texan_Bill
02-04-2013, 10:16 PM
Well yes I am when the statement I'm refuting is that the Texans organization is disrespecting the rest of the team by keeping Schaub on this team. When his teammates regularly talk highly of Schaub and express full confidence in him, it's hard to call them "disrespected." Is it completely impossible to believe that some if not a lot of Schaub's teammates might actually want him on this team? They haven't ever said otherwise like when we have seen in other cases with different teams.

I specifically asked for where Texan players towed the "company line" about Schaub being a "leader" as "the company line"......... I got nothing.

Hervoyel
02-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Jup!! No argument from me... That said all these arguments pro or con for the guy, these people are stupid for arguing over him because they're stuck with him for at least a couple/few years over his deal... Whether they like it or not..

Wait, you mean to say that all the time we spend here going back and forth over players is wasted because no matter what we say or think the team is going to do what it wants to do with no regard for our opinions?

No ****?

Well thanks Bill. Glad you could clear that up for us. Last one out turn off the lights because there's no point in any of this. Can't believe I spent ten ****ing years talking about a football team and they aren't even listening. Damn!

I'm not sure why the hatred goes towards Matt himself and NOT the FO that signed him to the extension. WTF???

I'm not sure why the hatred goes towards Matt Schaub and the fact that he hasn't really had any new weapons..

Well, I know it's "stupid" to bother with this but I just can't help myself. Call it habit at this point. I think all these people you're not understanding know good and well that the FO that signed him to the extension is to blame for doing it. We just all know that they're not going anywhere either. Once the bitching starts (justified or not) then it's going to focus on certain key areas. QB is at the top of the list. It comes with the territory. If you want to be a QB in the NFL some people are going to ***** about you damn near every year. If you're nothing special then you'll hear more of it and that's Matt Schaub's situation in a nutshell.

Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.

But that's not why the hate goes to Matt. The hate goes to him because he's the QB and he gets more of it because he's not good enough.

Whatever... Put everything on Schaub if that completes your short-sighted thought of this Texans past season.. Perhaps those of you that think that way should revisit the defense and special teams......

Of course many of you are way to mentally limited to put ALL THINGS into perspective!

I was under the impression that calling other posters names was frowned upon. My mistake I guess. Just my limitations getting in my way again.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 10:33 PM
Wait, you mean to say that all the time we spend here going back and forth over players is wasted because no matter what we say or think the team is going to do what it wants to do with no regard for our opinions?

No ****?


Well, we did get Jacoby Jones run out of here.


Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.


Damn....... if only Matt had been healthy when we had that team, with Jacoby Jones & Eric Winston & Mike Briesel & Arian Foster breaking 20-40 yards gains at will & Ben Tate doing the same off the bench.





Ahh.... what could have been.

Texecutioner
02-04-2013, 10:36 PM
I specifically asked for where Texan players towed the "company line" about Schaub being a "leader" as "the company line"......... I got nothing.

Well it's one thing to criticize Schaub as how you think he plays, but to suggest that his teammates are being done wrong and disrespected simply doesn't add up. His teammates have always expressed belief in Schaub.

steelbtexan
02-04-2013, 11:06 PM
Matt has his teammates respect.

The Texans will never win a SB with Matt as the QB and for that matter probably with Gary as HC.

Whoever made the decision to extend Matt for 4 yrs should be fired. If that kind of wisdom is permeating the Texans FO then this team is in serious trouble. Look at the way the Ravens handled the Flacco situation as a template. But that's not the Texans way (Taking risks) and they are stuck with a QB that's not good enough and according to a certain Doc will not be able to improve his deficiencies due to his injury situation. (I do believe the injury has led Matt to becoming a proverbial sitting duck and has caused his accuracy prblems to become more pronounced.

Vinny
02-04-2013, 11:28 PM
Matt has his teammates respect.

The Texans will never win a SB with Matt as the QB and for that matter probably with Gary as HC.

Whoever made the decision to extend Matt for 4 yrs should be fired. If that kind of wisdom is permeating the Texans FO then this team is in serious trouble. Look at the way the Ravens handled the Flacco situation as a template. But that's not the Texans way (Taking risks) and they are stuck with a QB that's not good enough and according to a certain Doc will not be able to improve his deficiencies due to his injury situation. (I do believe the injury has led Matt to becoming a proverbial sitting duck and has caused his accuracy prblems to become more pronounced.The Ravens had a better long term prospect in Flacco at that. I see it as the Ravens made Flacco go out and prove it, but the Texans handed out juice boxes and rice crispy treats, patted Matt on the head and made sure not to use red ink on his contract as they made sure he was loved, respected and well liked so they wouldn't have to bid against the Jaguars and Raiders for Matt's 2013 services.

HTown2ATX
02-05-2013, 07:48 AM
Wait, you mean to say that all the time we spend here going back and forth over players is wasted because no matter what we say or think the team is going to do what it wants to do with no regard for our opinions?

No ****?

Well thanks Bill. Glad you could clear that up for us. Last one out turn off the lights because there's no point in any of this. Can't believe I spent ten ****ing years talking about a football team and they aren't even listening. Damn!



Well, I know it's "stupid" to bother with this but I just can't help myself. Call it habit at this point. I think all these people you're not understanding know good and well that the FO that signed him to the extension is to blame for doing it. We just all know that they're not going anywhere either. Once the bitching starts (justified or not) then it's going to focus on certain key areas. QB is at the top of the list. It comes with the territory. If you want to be a QB in the NFL some people are going to ***** about you damn near every year. If you're nothing special then you'll hear more of it and that's Matt Schaub's situation in a nutshell.

Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.

But that's not why the hate goes to Matt. The hate goes to him because he's the QB and he gets more of it because he's not good enough.



I was under the impression that calling other posters names was frowned upon. My mistake I guess. Just my limitations getting in my way again.

Good posts as usual here lately Herv, me and many others are on the same side of the fence right now. Maybe not exact same on everything but close enough.

I was wondering, to alleviate some of the Texans fan on fan $hitting on each other, and also I think it would be fun to a degree, I sometimes wonder if it would be a good idea to have a thread specifically for the care bears and sunshine pumpers and one for the "haters" and realists where people from the other side don't interfere so both sides can either glorify the season despite the tailspin end of the season or complain about it and stroke each other's POV's in general.

The rest of the threads would be open season as usual but there would be a "home base" if you will for both sides. Don't get me wrong, I love the chaos and I get a good laugh but I'm weird like that. It does get old though, and I know it will never happen, but I thought it was an idea worth mentioning.

Anyway....on with the show...

:popcorn: :htown2atx:

GP
02-05-2013, 08:55 AM
Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.

But that's not why the hate goes to Matt. The hate goes to him because he's the QB and he gets more of it because he's not good enough.

Rep your way. LOL.

buddyboy
02-05-2013, 08:56 AM
Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.

But that's not why the hate goes to Matt. The hate goes to him because he's the QB and he gets more of it because he's not good enough.


Matt's shown what he can do with weapons in previous years. These past couple years, (and let me caps lock this so no one can misinterpret this) HE HAS NOT PLAYED WELL ENOUGH.

To the posters (not necessarily Herv) who have taken this past year's failure and applied it to all years (what have you done for me lately I guess), it's completely false that Schaub hasn't been comparable to the QB class of Flacco/Ryan/etc. Maybe he's regressed while they've picked up their game. But it's clear he CAN play at a high level, the question is has he lost it?

As far as weapons go, Foster and AJ are clearly top tier weapons. Looking at the teams who've had success this year, however, it's clear that in today's league, you need SEVERAL weapons. OD is a weapon, but I'm beginning to realize that other than hands, OD is mostly a run-of-the-mill TE. Nearly every team has a TE on their roster that could do his job in the Texans' system.

Dreesen was a weapon...last year. When Schaub was injured. Jacoby Jones is a weapon now. It's obvious the change of scenery and scheme has helped him tremendously. The Jacoby that Schaub had is a different Jacoby than the one who just won a Superbowl.

You're right he's had weapons, and we've seen what he can do with weapons. We've had TOP TIER offenses. The question is not "does Schaub have it". It should be "can Schaub get it back".

GP
02-05-2013, 08:58 AM
The Ravens had a better long term prospect in Flacco at that. I see it as the Ravens made Flacco go out and prove it, but the Texans handed out juice boxes and rice crispy treats, patted Matt on the head and made sure not to use red ink on his contract as they made sure he was loved, respected and well liked so they wouldn't have to bid against the Jaguars and Raiders for Matt's 2013 services.

Wes Mantooth: "Hey Ron, I heard you boys got a new momma down there at the station. I hear she wipes the dribble from your bubbling lips, and rubs vaseline on your butt and tells you how it's special and better than everyone else's."

- Anchorman

Best line. Ever.

Rey
02-05-2013, 09:52 AM
Matt has his teammates respect.

The Texans will never win a SB with Matt as the QB and for that matter probably with Gary as HC.

Whoever made the decision to extend Matt for 4 yrs should be fired. If that kind of wisdom is permeating the Texans FO then this team is in serious trouble. Look at the way the Ravens handled the Flacco situation as a template. But that's not the Texans way (Taking risks) and they are stuck with a QB that's not good enough and according to a certain Doc will not be able to improve his deficiencies due to his injury situation. (I do believe the injury has led Matt to becoming a proverbial sitting duck and has caused his accuracy prblems to become more pronounced.

The Ravens had a better long term prospect in Flacco at that. I see it as the Ravens made Flacco go out and prove it...

Excellent points..

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Matt's shown what he can do with weapons in previous years. These past couple years, (and let me caps lock this so no one can misinterpret this) HE HAS NOT PLAYED WELL ENOUGH.

To the posters (not necessarily Herv) who have taken this past year's failure and applied it to all years (what have you done for me lately I guess), it's completely false that Schaub hasn't been comparable to the QB class of Flacco/Ryan/etc. Maybe he's regressed while they've picked up their game. But it's clear he CAN play at a high level, the question is has he lost it?

Agreed.

& to the bolded. The guys saying he never had it, just never liked Schaub to begin with & aren't being objective about the situation.

If you're one of the guys who is saying Schaub lost it.... that's great, that's an understandable position.

But to say he never had it... I don't like Schaub, but I give credit where credit is due.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 10:49 AM
Look at the way the Ravens handled the Flacco situation as a template.

I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

HJam72
02-05-2013, 10:58 AM
I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

Yeah, I've been wondering if Flacco knew he could do more....possibly with a better OC. :kitten:

deucetx
02-05-2013, 11:07 AM
I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

Yep, that's correct. It wasn't the Ravens who tabled the talks but Flacco himself. He felt he deserved more and took the risk. Guess his gamble paid off and his agent is seeking top five quarterback type money. So really didn't have much to do with the Ravens handling him properly but Flacco's own actions of turning down an offer and August and pushing it to the side to show what he's about.

As for Schaub...well...its a pain. I'm not Schaub fan and sometimes refer to him is Matt Campbell for that chicken noodle soup of an arm. Nonetheless, I still think we can win with him. If Hassleback can get there so can Matt. He's just the type that needs things going right so we need to improve the talent around him more. Yes, we already have talent on offense with Foster, Dre and O.D. but we have to realize what we have. Schaub is not elite and at this point not even a tier 2 type of guy. He'd probably fall right behind that second group of quarterbacks which means he needs more around him.

It sucks but it is what it is. He's not going anywhere so you got make this offense as much as it can be. He just may not be the type that can carry a team but he can be an essential link in the chain of a total package....so to speak lol

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 11:24 AM
As for Schaub...well...its a pain. I'm not Schaub fan and sometimes refer to him is Matt Campbell for that chicken noodle soup of an arm. Nonetheless, I still think we can win with him. If Hassleback can get there so can Matt. He's just the type that needs things going right so we need to improve the talent around him more. Yes, we already have talent on offense with Foster, Dre and O.D. but we have to realize what we have. Schaub is not elite and at this point not even a tier 2 type of guy. He'd probably fall right behind that second group of quarterbacks which means he needs more around him.


He looks better when we play up tempo. He looks better when we play 3 or 4 WRs. If we do more of that, then I think Schaub can, has, & will play "better" More than just a game manager.

Since the kids failed Kubiak, or Kubiak failed the kids, we played more 2 TE sets than we ever had this year & our TEs aren't going to stretch the field like a Gronk or Graham, or Vernon Davis.

Our TEs are good, but they aren't "that" kind of good.

Hopefully next year, with another year starting on the line (Jones & Newton) & these young receivers with Kubiak, we can get back to stretching the field vertically (we used to lead the league in big plays) & horizontally (with the zone stretch).

Hervoyel
02-05-2013, 11:30 AM
The Texans need to go ahead and start building OL bigtime. If the reality is that Matt Schaub is "Da' Man! (TM)" in their eyes then they need to get something straight; The running game can't be AWOL against the better teams. It's time to put some money into the line. Keep your lousy WR corps (excluding AJ of course) and roll with your collection of generally slow but reliable TE's and build a unit that can't be denied on the ground. That's a must because you're damn sure not going to get there through the air.

You can even keep running Walter out there.

Then hope enough breaks go your way to get to the Super Bowl.

Yesterday
02-05-2013, 12:02 PM
For those of you saying we can win with Matt, we just need to give him a LOT of help...you may be right. But the sickening thing is we are paying him ~62 million over 4 years (roughly 15.5 million / season).

Yes, the Ravens won it all with Trent Dilfer. yes, the Seahawks got there with Matt Hasselbeck. But those players were paid peanuts compared to Schaub (I think Dilfer was only a couple million a year, Hasselbeck like 5ish)
Brad Johnson? Same story.

The fact of the matter is we overpaid Schaub (and subsequently couldn't afford to keep the right side of our line, which hurt our running game significantly).

Can we win a super bowl with Matt Schaub? Yes. Can we win one with him taking up such a big portion of our salary cap? I don't think so. TJ Yates made ~500,000 this season. Do you really think that Matt Schaub is $15 million/season better than TJ Yates?

You can't overpay players consistently and win.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 12:36 PM
For those of you saying we can win with Matt, we just need to give him a LOT of help...you may be right. But the sickening thing is we are paying him ~62 million over 4 years (roughly 15.5 million / season).


I don't think Flacco is in the big game without Torrey Smith. Probably not in the play offs.

The Ravens showed up. Top to bottom, 22+ guys showed up in January & won a championship. It wasn't just Flacco. Bolden made some amazing catches. Pitta showed up at the right time, the OL was excellent. Ray Rice kept them on schedule.

We're not saying Matt needs anything any other QB doesn't need. The Patriots run game, receivers, & defense let them down & they lost the AFC Championship game. They didn't have Shane Vareen stepping up, or Welker with 100+ yards in the first half.

True, Brady, Brees, & Rogers makes their guys look better. But Brady, Brees, & Rogers aren't the only guys winning Super Bowls.

steelbtexan
02-05-2013, 12:47 PM
I don't think Flacco is in the big game without Torrey Smith. Probably not in the play offs.

The Ravens showed up. Top to bottom, 22+ guys showed up in January & won a championship. It wasn't just Flacco. Bolden made some amazing catches. Pitta showed up at the right time, the OL was excellent. Ray Rice kept them on schedule.

We're not saying Matt needs anything any other QB doesn't need. The Patriots run game, receivers, & defense let them down & they lost the AFC Championship game. They didn't have Shane Vareen stepping up, or Welker with 100+ yards in the first half.

True, Brady, Brees, & Rogers makes their guys look better. But Brady, Brees, & Rogers aren't the only guys winning Super Bowls.

Add in Eli Manning and yes those are the guys winning SB's. Flacco would've been in the SB last yr if not for the Evans dropped TD pass.

I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 01:04 PM
Add in Eli Manning and yes those are the guys winning SB's. Flacco would've been in the SB last yr if not for the Evans dropped TD pass.

I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

Well, saying that Schaub is not a risk taker is more or less correct, but neither are Brady or Brees. And those guys are elite QBs, while I only rate Schaub to be somewhere between 11-15, which is just a tad above mediocre.

I think the main reason is that these offenses are geared more toward stretching the field horizontally.

Over the course of their careers so far, Brady has only attempted 1% more deep passes than Schaub while Brees is lagging Schaub by 1/2%

Yesterday
02-05-2013, 01:10 PM
Well, saying that Schaub is not a risk taker is more or less correct, but neither are Brady or Brees. And those guys are elite QBs, while I only rate Schaub to be somewhere between 11-15, which is just a tad above mediocre.

I think the main reason is that these offenses are geared more toward stretching the field horizontally.

Over the course of their careers so far, Brady has only attempted 1% more deep passes than Schaub while Brees is lagging Schaub by 1/2%

Completely irrelevant stat. Our entire offense is based around a high % of deep balls (on PA in particular). Under-throwing the ball 40 yards downfield to a wide open AJ does not mean he's a risk-taker. And Brees is certainly a risk-taker, anyone who watches him can see that.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 01:16 PM
Completely irrelevant stat. Our entire offense is based around a high % of deep balls (on PA in particular). Under-throwing the ball 40 yards downfield to a wide open AJ does not mean he's a risk-taker. And Brees is certainly a risk-taker, anyone who watches him can see that.

So you're saying that even though Brees doesn't attempt a lot of deep passes, he's still taking a lot of risk?

Yesterday
02-05-2013, 01:17 PM
He does attempt a lot of deep passes. He makes throws down the field that Schaub could only dream of. Do you watch Saints games? Just b/c Schaub throws a higher % of deep passes doesn't mean he is taking more risks.

deucetx
02-05-2013, 01:33 PM
I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20130205_Ravens__Joe_Flacco_wakes_up_famous.html

Excerpt:

Flacco ended contract extension talks before the season and stands to earn millions of dollars more because of the gamble. His five-year deal expires in March. The Ravens could place their franchise tag on Flacco, but his Super Bowl victory all but guarantees that his team will give him a new deal in line with other elite quarterbacks.

The deal he turned down was reportedly $16m per. Apparently the word is he feels he deserves top 5 money around $20m per. He gambled and now can run around yelling "Cha-Ching!!!!"

76Texan
02-05-2013, 01:38 PM
He does attempt a lot of deep passes. He makes throws down the field that Schaub could only dream of. Do you watch Saints games? Just b/c Schaub throws a higher % of deep passes doesn't mean he is taking more risks.

Well, I just watched a video of Brees describing his two INTs against the Giants for example. Basically, every veteran QB takes a little more chance when they're behind; most QBs really, unless they are really reigned in by their coaches. One was tipped; the other Brees said he threw it exactly where he wanted it to be.

I think he threw a bunch of them against the Falcons, too.
I watched that game, and I don't think there was much risk involved.
Maybe one was (it's been awhile.)

But I don't associate Brees with risk.
Favre was a risk taker; Cutler was a risk taker.

I don't consider a Hail Mary at the end of each half a risk.
I don't consider a deep throw on third and long in no man land a risk.
They are good percentage passes; if you complete it, good; if not, it's like a punt.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 02:05 PM
OK, so like I just rewatched the Saints/Skins game in week 1 to track all passes 15 yards and deeper.

Brees threw 2 INTs.

On the first one, the Saints had max-protect (7 to block 5; actually only 4 guys really rushed the passer; the other was just waiting for the back to come out of the backfield to cover him.)
The receiver was open, but somehow the Skins was able to push the pocket right up to Brees at the last moment; the pass sailed a high and the safety intercepted it.
That is not a risk. You're supposed to have a good pocket in max-protect for at least 3 seconds.

The other INT was at the end of the game, with the Saints trailing by 8 I think.
With hardly any time left, Brees threw a Hail Mary into the end zone and was intercepted. I don't call that a risk either. You just have to hope for something there, that's all.

Dutchrudder
02-05-2013, 02:07 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20130205_Ravens__Joe_Flacco_wakes_up_famous.html

Excerpt:

Flacco ended contract extension talks before the season and stands to earn millions of dollars more because of the gamble. His five-year deal expires in March. The Ravens could place their franchise tag on Flacco, but his Super Bowl victory all but guarantees that his team will give him a new deal in line with other elite quarterbacks.

The deal he turned down was reportedly $16m per. Apparently the word is he feels he deserves top 5 money around $20m per. He gambled and now can run around yelling "Cha-Ching!!!!"

What if they can't work a deal and Flacco hits the free agent market.... and then signs with the Browns. That would be epic!

76Texan
02-05-2013, 02:18 PM
At any rate, if we cut Schaub, we still save $4M in salary next year if we go with either Yates or Keenum.

All the dead money still remains, but it's going to be there no matter what.

I'm for giving Yates and Keenum long looks next pre-season.
If one of them looks good while Schaub shows not to be sharper with his decisions and his throws; I would cut Schaub and take that money to sign a backup QB when needed.

If Schaub outplays both of them rather convincingly, it should mean that he's back to form (ie., from a tad above mediocre back to borderline top ten) I would keep him.

We can still cut Schaub during the season if he regresses again.
I'm not a Schaub lover nor hater; I just want to see good QB play; that is all.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 02:26 PM
What if they can't work a deal and Flacco hits the free agent market.... and then signs with the Browns. That would be epic!

The Ravens are going to look like a55hats if they end up franchising him.

GP
02-05-2013, 05:11 PM
I think the locker room in one place was a little uncomfortable that a guy got a big extension after the first reg season game.

And I think another locker room, way over across the country, was pretty excited that their "franchise QB" was going to have to earn his extension the old fashioned way. Like everyone else.

These types of things with QBs, it matters to the other 52 guys. Because he's the guy at the top. It starts and ends with him. Always has, always will.

This is just to follow up on vinny's take earlier. Which is something I co-sign and have felt since about early December 2012.

What we need is a QB who has to have a dynamic year to get a big deal. That likely won't' happen for another 2+ years now. Awesome.

buddyboy
02-05-2013, 05:12 PM
I'm not cynical I'm rational.

I feel sorry for people who go through their lives believing everything they read or hear.

Do you really think if that locker room doubted him they would say so publicly?

No I am not the guy who knows anyone, but do know that this society has become politically correct to its own demise and that doesn't stop with the sporting world.

When do you ever hear anyone in our locker room criticizing anything?

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me you believe each and every person in the organization believes it is all great and there are no issues? C'mon man ...

That wasn't the argument, don't make up arguments to knock down. The argument was that the locker room supports Schaub.

It's one thing to be cynical. That's hearing one thing, and doubting it, finding evidence, and proving it wrong. What you are doing is hearing one thing, doubting it, and then declaring everyone who believes it to be wrong with no proof but your own "realism".

buddyboy
02-05-2013, 05:13 PM
I think the locker room in one place was a little uncomfortable that a guy got a big extension after the first reg season game.

And I think another locker room, way over across the country, was pretty excited that their "franchise QB" was going to have to earn his extension the old fashioned way. Like everyone else.

These types of things with QBs, it matters to the other 52 guys. Because he's the guy at the top. It starts and ends with him. Always has, always will.

This is just to follow up on vinny's take earlier. Which is something I co-sign and have felt since about early December 2012.

What we need is a QB who has to have a dynamic year to get a big deal. That likely won't' happen for another 2+ years now. Awesome.

Except like people already posted, Flacco turned down the contract that the Ravens offered him.

So really, it's more like one locker room, way across the country, is pretty excited that their leader wants more money.

GP
02-05-2013, 05:16 PM
The Texans need to go ahead and start building OL bigtime. If the reality is that Matt Schaub is "Da' Man! (TM)" in their eyes then they need to get something straight; The running game can't be AWOL against the better teams. It's time to put some money into the line. Keep your lousy WR corps (excluding AJ of course) and roll with your collection of generally slow but reliable TE's and build a unit that can't be denied on the ground. That's a must because you're damn sure not going to get there through the air.

You can even keep running Walter out there.

Then hope enough breaks go your way to get to the Super Bowl.

Even the best idea ^^^ probably won't work.

We find new ways to screw up, it's our lot in life. Fix one thing, then the other thing breaks down. Fix THAT, and something over here needs fixing.

This is like my dad's '84 Chevy pickup truck. He spent his weekends replacing **** on that pickup. And I? I got good at video games. I think I ended up the winner there.

GP
02-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Except like people already posted, Flacco turned down the contract that the Ravens offered him.

So really, it's more like one locker room, way across the country, is pretty excited that their leader wants more money.

Yeah, the point remains: 52 players knew that their QB was going to roll the dice and say "I'll wait. I think I'm worth more than that." That is HUGE balls. Big odds against him, actually.

Schaub comes back from a devastating injury, has one good game right off the bat...WHAMMO! he's got his new deal by the time McClain has finished the snacks in the press room.

No matter which way it went down, it still remains that Schaub was financially set no matter what (unless he gets hurt again, then his salary goes bye-bye and he has to do an injury settlement for less money. Unless he insured himself, at which I would say he probably didn't get covered do to pre-existing Lisfranc injury).

All in all, I really think the early contract for Schaub was bad mojo.

The only thing I have to hope for is that by some miracle Kubiak decides to open the QB position up to a competition in camp and preseason. If neither Case nor TJ can beat out Schaub, then we roll with the Sloth Man again. Like molasses uphill in December.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 05:26 PM
Sorry, wrong forum

GNTLEWOLF
02-05-2013, 05:29 PM
Yeah, the point remains: 52 players knew that their QB was going to roll the dice and say "I'll wait. I think I'm worth more than that." That is HUGE balls. Big odds against him, actually.

Schaub comes back from a devastating injury, has one good game right off the bat...WHAMMO! he's got his new deal by the time McClain has finished the snacks in the press room.

No matter which way it went down, it still remains that Schaub was financially set no matter what (unless he gets hurt again, then his salary goes bye-bye and he has to do an injury settlement for less money. Unless he insured himself, at which I would say he probably didn't get covered do to pre-existing Lisfranc injury).

All in all, I really think the early contract for Schaub was bad mojo.

The only thing I have to hope for is that by some miracle Kubiak decides to open the QB position up to a competition in camp and preseason. If neither Case nor TJ can beat out Schaub, then we roll with the Sloth Man again. Like molasses uphill in December.

The only problem with an open QB competition in camp is... who decides who won the competition?. It is going to be Kubiak. Kubiak who played golf with Schaub before signing him. Kubiak who believes in Schaub, who has made Schaub the QB that he wants. Loyal to the point of blindness Kubiak. I don't see any possibility of there ever being a real open camp competition. If one ever happens the outcome will be foreordained with this Head Coach.

thunderkyss
02-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Anyone notice how we call it "forcing it" when Schaub takes a chance?

For instance, the deep pass to Walter (I know.... I know) that was picked in the endzone in the Colts game. He shouldn't have taken that chance, he should have checked it down to the wide open Foster.

Jules Winnfield
02-05-2013, 06:27 PM
What has he done with the weapons he has had?

Arguably the best receiver in the league.

One of the best TE's.

One of the best RB's.

The hatred goes to where it is earned ...


dont forget about his 3 pro bowl offensive linemen, a back up rb that rushed for nearly 1,000 yards with limited touches year before last year who kubiak (offensive guru(allegedly)) refuses to play.

im glad the year went the way it did. Schaub was out of excuses and i hope the people who were on the fence about him finally made a decision on schaub.

he's a glorified back up qb who has horrible physical tools who isnt that great at being a game manager.

bOODRO87
02-05-2013, 06:31 PM
Anyone notice how we call it "forcing it" when Schaub takes a chance?

For instance, the deep pass to Walter (I know.... I know) that was picked in the endzone in the Colts game. He shouldn't have taken that chance, he should have checked it down to the wide open Foster.

Haha, I wouldn't use the term Deep Pass but I'm sure that's what your snickering about. But yeah, Schaub stared him down like me when I see a curvy girl walk into my general area.

DX-TEX
02-05-2013, 06:38 PM
I personally fully believe the "dead arm theory" that is floating around. It states that the Jags and Lions game killed Schaubs arm making it essentially dead. Like what happens to a pitcher in baseball when he throws too much in a season.

I also feel that by keeping him in while knowing this Kubiak caused un repairable damage to schaubs confidence and I question if he will ever recover.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 06:57 PM
dont forget about his 3 pro bowl offensive linemen, a back up rb that rushed for nearly 1,000 yards with limited touches year before last year who kubiak (offensive guru(allegedly)) refuses to play.

im glad the year went the way it did. Schaub was out of excuses and i hope the people who were on the fence about him finally made a decision on schaub.

he's a glorified back up qb who has horrible physical tools who isnt that great at being a game manager.

Once again, defense and ST affect the Offense in a profound way.

When the ST and the D suck, the O suffers and vice versa.

Pro-Bowlers, as I was reminded, were awarded more for their play the previous years.

By all accounts, most people here determined that the right side of the line is worse. I will add to that the fact that Myers, Smith, and D. Brown all had a down year from last, especially W. Smith.
Brown was the best of them, but then he went on a downward slide toward year end, just ask some of the people on here.

People were complaining about missing Dreessen.
At the beginning of the season, some were saying that AJ no longer has it, that Walter definitely needs to be replaced
Despite the fact that Jacoby dropped a lot of balls when he was here, the trio of Jean-Martin-Posey couldn't replace him. They didn't drop quite as many balls (close, not quite,) but they didn't make many plays either.

And then there was that Foster vegan thingy.
Did you hear these complains last year?

I'd like to have a better QB, but I'm not going to put down Schaub just for the sake of it.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 07:44 PM
Wait, you mean to say that all the time we spend here going back and forth over players is wasted because no matter what we say or think the team is going to do what it wants to do with no regard for our opinions?

No ****?

Well thanks Bill. Glad you could clear that up for us. Last one out turn off the lights because there's no point in any of this. Can't believe I spent ten ****ing years talking about a football team and they aren't even listening. Damn!



Well, I know it's "stupid" to bother with this but I just can't help myself. Call it habit at this point. I think all these people you're not understanding know good and well that the FO that signed him to the extension is to blame for doing it. We just all know that they're not going anywhere either. Once the bitching starts (justified or not) then it's going to focus on certain key areas. QB is at the top of the list. It comes with the territory. If you want to be a QB in the NFL some people are going to ***** about you damn near every year. If you're nothing special then you'll hear more of it and that's Matt Schaub's situation in a nutshell.

Matt's got weapons. People who say Matt doesn't have weapons need to look again. He's had weapons for years. He's got Arian Foster and Andre Johnson. They're weapons. He has Owen Daniels and he's a weapon. Joel Dreeson was enough of a weapon that the Bronco's went out and signed him for Manning. Jacoby Jones who I hate with the heat of 10,000 suns was a weapon obviously in hindsight. Schaub has and has had weapons. It doesn't change much in the long run. Add some weapons, take away some weapons, Matt stays Matt.

But that's not why the hate goes to Matt. The hate goes to him because he's the QB and he gets more of it because he's not good enough.



I was under the impression that calling other posters names was frowned upon. My mistake I guess. Just my limitations getting in my way again.

:lol: at much of that. Oh and BTW, I get some of your sardonic sense of humor. FTR, I agree, Schaub is not good enough.

My point is this, the Texans have a lot, A LOT of problems. Basically they are paper tigers on many, many levels, not just at the QB position.

The only point that I take umbrage with is:

I was under the impression that calling other posters names was frowned upon. My mistake I guess.

Calling people stupid without naming anyone, certainly is not calling "other posters" names. Generalizations are definitely different than attacking or "calling people names". I would suspect that you of all people would know that.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 07:47 PM
Well it's one thing to criticize Schaub as how you think he plays, but to suggest that his teammates are being done wrong and disrespected simply doesn't add up. His teammates have always expressed belief in Schaub.

Tex... Not sure where you were going with this.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Exactly .... Flacco goes on to win the SB without a new deal and Matt is sitting pretty based on nothing.

JUP!!! Flacco wins a SB and will demand cray cash. WAY more than Schaub but will turn back into, well.... Flacco.

Again, the Texans FO effed up by signing that ridiculous deal, ESPECIALLY coming off the injury that he (Schaub) was coming off, after game one of the season... A very stupid move by the Texans. I certainly wish they would've read Doc Jean's (CnD) post here where Doc basically outlined the way Schaub's season would play out.

That said.. Flacco is Flacco. He probably won't live up to the deal the Ravens give him either. #We know about bad QB deals!

Is Flacco the guy that you saw in the Super Bowl, or is he the guy that you see as very much Tony Romo??? FACT: Flacco has been known to be terrible at times.

Texecutioner
02-05-2013, 08:19 PM
JUP!!! Flacco wins a SB and will demand cray cash. WAY more than Schaub but will turn back into, well.... Flacco.

Again, the Texans FO effed up by signing that ridiculous deal, ESPECIALLY coming off the injury that he (Schaub) was coming off, after game one of the season... A very stupid move by the Texans. I certainly wish they would've read Doc Jean's (CnD) post here where Doc basically outlined the way Schaub's season would play out.

That said.. Flacco is Flacco. He probably won't live up to the deal the Ravens give him either. #We know about bad QB deals!

Is Flacco the guy that you saw in the Super Bowl, or is he the guy that you see as very much Tony Romo??? FACT: Flacco has been known to be terrible at times.

I love all these knee jerkers Bill. Before the playoffs these guys would have clowned the hell out of you if you even mentioned Flacco amongst these other elites, but now he is the guy we all wish we could have. If only we had Flacco :chickendance:


Flacco has slightly above average for most of his career. He has definitely started to improve, but he is nowhere close to being elite after one SB run.


I want Schaub gone myself, but only with the proper replacement where the team does their dilligence and doesn't just draft someone just to draft someone because. That is exactly how you end up swapping out QB's every other year. Replacing a QB is generally one of the toughest things to do in any sport. You know I can't stand Yates, but I wouldn't mind seeing there be a legit tryout for the starting job next season out of him and Schaub. Either that, or if we can get another free agent QB or if we do draft a guy, let them all compete.

Texecutioner
02-05-2013, 08:27 PM
No it wasn't ... the argument was is the support of him legitimate.

I say no .... its company line.

And you've got absolutely nothing to base that on other then conspiracy theories fueled by your hatred for the guy.

You haven't ever seen a team where certain players voiced their displeasure to the media about their HC or their QB?? If you haven't you really haven't watched the NFL that long. It happens practically every other year. QB's get blasted by their teammates all the time or at least questioned. That hasn't ever happened on this team even once. The players have done the opposite and spoken highly about their confidence in Schaub. You can create whatever fiction you want about this, but it fails and just comes off as over the top.


You can dislike Schaub yourself and think he is horrible. We all know that you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion just like anyone else, but to suggest that the rest of his team is being disrespected by management for not releasing a guy that would have some pretty strong cap consequences is downright stupid. The players have spoken themselves and "their word" is more then likely how they feel. There are all sorts of factors that go into releasing a player with a salary like Schaub has in the following season right after he just signed a deal. Do you even contemplate any of this stuff at all?? Do you make the connection as far as how a team has to operate under the salary cap?? Where is the money going to come from to sign some other QB after the cap hit?? The Texans may not have to start Schaub next season, but they can't just release him because they all of a sudden feel like it without there being other factors involved. This isn't Madden.

And why aren't you dumping all over JJ Watt for expressing his admiration and confidence in Schaub either? Watt said several times that he has a lot of confidence in the guy and likes him as this team's QB? So isn't Watt disrespecting the rest of the team since he is advocating for Schaub by your same standards??

Yesterday
02-06-2013, 09:17 AM
You haven't ever seen a team where certain players voiced their displeasure to the media about their HC or their QB?? If you haven't you really haven't watched the NFL that long. It happens practically every other year. QB's get blasted by their teammates all the time or at least questioned. That hasn't ever happened on this team even once. The players have done the opposite and spoken highly about their confidence in Schaub.


To be fair, with most of those teams where the QB is called out, the QB is either HORRIBLE, the teammates are scumbags, or a combination of both.
Sanchez and Tebow, for example.

Who on our team is going to call out Schaub? Andre Johnson didn't call out David Carr, what makes you think he will change his policy? Foster is all about peace and love. Kevin Walter? We could have the worst QB in the NFL and he still wouldn't get called out by teammates.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 10:44 AM
To be fair, with most of those teams where the QB is called out, the QB is either HORRIBLE, the teammates are scumbags, or a combination of both.
Sanchez and Tebow, for example.

Who on our team is going to call out Schaub? Andre Johnson didn't call out David Carr, what makes you think he will change his policy? Foster is all about peace and love. Kevin Walter? We could have the worst QB in the NFL and he still wouldn't get called out by teammates.

They're not going to call out Matt because each one of them know there was something eacb one of them could have done better to help their team get to & win the Super Bowl.

If any of then felt they did everything they could ala Dunta's comments about Carr they would be spouting off.

steelbtexan
02-06-2013, 11:51 AM
Once again, defense and ST affect the Offense in a profound way.

When the ST and the D suck, the O suffers and vice versa.

Pro-Bowlers, as I was reminded, were awarded more for their play the previous years.

By all accounts, most people here determined that the right side of the line is worse. I will add to that the fact that Myers, Smith, and D. Brown all had a down year from last, especially W. Smith.
Brown was the best of them, but then he went on a downward slide toward year end, just ask some of the people on here.

People were complaining about missing Dreessen.
At the beginning of the season, some were saying that AJ no longer has it, that Walter definitely needs to be replaced
Despite the fact that Jacoby dropped a lot of balls when he was here, the trio of Jean-Martin-Posey couldn't replace him. They didn't drop quite as many balls (close, not quite,) but they didn't make many plays either.

And then there was that Foster vegan thingy.
Did you hear these complains last year?

I'd like to have a better QB, but I'm not going to put down Schaub just for the sake of it.

1. The St's were terrible, the defense? How many TD's did they give up in the Cincy game? What was the avg points scored by the winning teams in the playoffs? The NFL has changed, used to the 1st team that scored 20 usually won. In this yrs playoffs that number appears to have gone up to 30-35 and the Texans haven't been able to keep up.

2. The OL as a whole had an avg yr. But they were constantly facing 8-9 man fronts because defenses weren't threatened vertically. (Due to lack of speed on the outside/Matts inability to hit on the deep ball)

2. Dreessen, The Texans are a running team, Dreessen was their best blocking TE, so they missed him badly.

3. AJ, he is still a great WR but he's turning into more of a possesion WR later in his career. He still has the ability to beat 2nd tier CB's deep. But top CB's can cover him deep. Revis/Cromartie/Rodgers etc.... I dont know the answer to this question but how many times did defenses put a S over the top of AJ compared to previous yrs? (I'm sure you've got previous yrs game tape.)

4. Jones vs Posey/Martin etc... Agreed, but Posey was coming on at the end of last yr. Sad to see his career go this way. I'm hoping in this yrs draft they draft another WR high and sign a vet deep guy like Brandon Gipson or Denario Alexander on the cheap.

5. Foster, he was overused and my belifs are that was because they were covering up for Schaub and his foot. Foster did start playing better when he got off of the vegan diet. But the vegan diet had little to do with his performance. IMHO He just didn't break long runs like he did in the 2011 season.

steelbtexan
02-06-2013, 12:01 PM
And you've got absolutely nothing to base that on other then conspiracy theories fueled by your hatred for the guy.

You haven't ever seen a team where certain players voiced their displeasure to the media about their HC or their QB?? If you haven't you really haven't watched the NFL that long. It happens practically every other year. QB's get blasted by their teammates all the time or at least questioned. That hasn't ever happened on this team even once. The players have done the opposite and spoken highly about their confidence in Schaub. You can create whatever fiction you want about this, but it fails and just comes off as over the top.


You can dislike Schaub yourself and think he is horrible. We all know that you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion just like anyone else, but to suggest that the rest of his team is being disrespected by management for not releasing a guy that would have some pretty strong cap consequences is downright stupid. The players have spoken themselves and "their word" is more then likely how they feel. There are all sorts of factors that go into releasing a player with a salary like Schaub has in the following season right after he just signed a deal. Do you even contemplate any of this stuff at all?? Do you make the connection as far as how a team has to operate under the salary cap?? Where is the money going to come from to sign some other QB after the cap hit?? The Texans may not have to start Schaub next season, but they can't just release him because they all of a sudden feel like it without there being other factors involved. This isn't Madden.

And why aren't you dumping all over JJ Watt for expressing his admiration and confidence in Schaub either? Watt said several times that he has a lot of confidence in the guy and likes him as this team's QB? So isn't Watt disrespecting the rest of the team since he is advocating for Schaub by your same standards??

Signing Schaub to an extention after 2 games coming off a serious foot injury would be a firable offense on most NFL teams. We're stuck with Schaub for a couple of yrs as fans unfortunately. Thanks Rick/Gary

steelbtexan
02-06-2013, 12:05 PM
I love all these knee jerkers Bill. Before the playoffs these guys would have clowned the hell out of you if you even mentioned Flacco amongst these other elites, but now he is the guy we all wish we could have. If only we had Flacco :chickendance:


Flacco has slightly above average for most of his career. He has definitely started to improve, but he is nowhere close to being elite after one SB run.


I want Schaub gone myself, but only with the proper replacement where the team does their dilligence and doesn't just draft someone just to draft someone because. That is exactly how you end up swapping out QB's every other year. Replacing a QB is generally one of the toughest things to do in any sport. You know I can't stand Yates, but I wouldn't mind seeing there be a legit tryout for the starting job next season out of him and Schaub. Either that, or if we can get another free agent QB or if we do draft a guy, let them all compete.

Flacco just won a SB and if not for a Lee Evans dropped pass would have made the SB a yr ago.

Doesn't Flacco have the most playoff wins for the ammount of time he has been in the league? He's hardly chopped liver and has been underrated for yrs. IMHO

Double Barrel
02-06-2013, 12:18 PM
So, evidence that the team loves them some Schaub is the lack of negative comments from his teammates and public support from those same players.

Yet, why isn't that same logic applied to Kubiak? The players love them some Gary and publicly support him. Why is it good to use that logic in support of Schaub but not for Kubiak?

Strange dichotomy in the missing link of logic in that one. :thinking:

Flacco just won a SB and if not for a Lee Evans dropped pass would have made the SB a yr ago.

Doesn't Flacco have the most playoff wins for the ammount of time he has been in the league? He's hardly chopped liver and has been underrated for yrs. IMHO

Flacco has the most playoff wins on the road than any QB in NFL history, as well.

Jules Winnfield
02-06-2013, 03:55 PM
Exactly .... Flacco goes on to win the SB without a new deal and Matt is sitting pretty based on nothing.

you know what's sad?

matt schaub's most important prove everybody wrong no more excuses year, this year/this past season,

he basically accomplished the same thing TJ Yates did last year.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 03:59 PM
you know what's sad?

matt schaub's most important prove everybody wrong no more excuses year, this year/this past season,

he basically accomplished the same thing TJ Yates did last year.

Don't kid yourself, if TJ started all of 2011 we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Jules Winnfield
02-06-2013, 04:11 PM
Don't kid yourself, if TJ started all of 2011 we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

how so?

because the 2 win colts would have taken over the division?

because titans or jags would have beaten us?

we were what 7-3 when yates came in? you act as if he came in after the texans were 13-0 or something?

we would have won that division whether it was yates, schaub, or orlovsky. We won a freaking playoff game and almost beat bmore with yates come on now.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
how so?

because the 2 win colts would have taken over the division?

because titans or jags would have beaten us?

we were what 7-3 when yates came in? you act as if he came in after the texans were 13-0 or something?

we would have won that division whether it was yates, schaub, or orlovsky. We won a freaking playoff game and almost beat bmore with yates come on now.

You do remember the Titans finished at 9-7 right? I don't even think we would have gotten to 9-7. Probably 8-8 at best.

And I distinctly remember one of those "2 win" Colts victories coming against TJ's Texans.

Double Barrel
02-06-2013, 04:41 PM
The fact that you can even have this debate about a 5th string rookie QB vs. a veteran QB says a lot about Schaub without saying much at all.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
The fact that you can even have this debate about a 5th string rookie QB vs. a veteran QB says a lot about Schaub without saying much at all.

Not really. People are making it worse than it is.

Double Barrel
02-06-2013, 04:43 PM
Not really. People are making it worse than it is.

'eh, it's all about perspective. Schaub ain't nothing special. And neither is TJ Yates.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 04:50 PM
I agree that TJ isn't anything special, but believe given the chance he would be better than Matt.

I would say if we went 6-10 or 7-9 last year and seemed to be going nowhere, I'd say try him out.

Or of course if Matt got injured and TJ played lights out, I'd say keep him in.

Other than that, we risk what we've built over the past 5 years 'just to see what happens'.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 04:54 PM
We know what happens ... we already know the end of the movie ... Matt fails and we lose.

Well, please indulge and apprise me of next month's lottery numbers.

Double Barrel
02-06-2013, 05:06 PM
I agree that TJ isn't anything special, but believe given the chance he would be better than Matt.

yep, which goes back to my original point. When you can make a reasonable argument to start TJ Yates over Matt Schaub, that says a lot about our starting QB.

As far as Vance87 thinking it's fortune telling, it's really more about the past and studying history.

And the history that really matters is in the post-season. Like Jules Winnfield said, TJ Yates and Matt Schaub are equal in that regard, both beating the Bengals and losing in the 2nd round. Both QBs are 1-1 in the playoffs.

We should hope for more from Schaub than equaling the performance of a 5th round rookie.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 05:08 PM
yep, which goes back to my original point. When you can make a reasonable argument to start TJ Yates over Matt Schaub, that says a lot about our starting QB.

As far as Vance87 thinking it's fortune telling, it's really more about the past and studying history.

And the history that really matters is in the post-season. Like Jules Winnfield said, TJ Yates and Matt Schaub are equal in that regard, both beating the Bengals and losing in the 2nd round. Both QBs are 1-1 in the playoffs.

We should hope for more from Schaub than equaling the performance of a 5th round rookie.

And? If I recall Peyton Manning did no better than Tim Tebow in this years' playoffs. Does that mean anything? No.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 05:20 PM
Have you not watched Matt his entire career as I have? If you have ... you know the ending ...

Wow, you watched Matt in Atlanta too? You really are psychic.

Vance87
02-06-2013, 05:28 PM
Let me just say that I'm all for whatever gets us closer to the ultimate goal.

If TJ has a sterling preseason and Matt has a poor couple of first games, then let's saddle up and start him.

Don't want people thinking I'm a Schaub groupie, I just don't see it in Yates at this point.

Jules Winnfield
02-06-2013, 06:00 PM
You do remember the Titans finished at 9-7 right? I don't even think we would have gotten to 9-7. Probably 8-8 at best.

And I distinctly remember one of those "2 win" Colts victories coming against TJ's Texans.

we won a playoff game with tj yates and we almost beat bmore with a 3string rookie 5th round pick at qb thrust into the starting line up because of back to back injuries to our first two qbs. we played in arguably the worst division of football that year.

we would have won the division with tj yates if he was given favorable conditions to be prepared. he wasnt.

all this is conjecture but i would bet that we would still win the division.

The fact that you can even have this debate about a 5th string rookie QB vs. a veteran QB says a lot about Schaub without saying much at all.

someone who gets it.

Not really. People are making it worse than it is.

someone who doesnt.

'eh, it's all about perspective. Schaub ain't nothing special. And neither is TJ Yates.

im not big on tj yates but if we are gonna give half a decade (and counting) to a consistently mediocre qb like matt schaub why cant we at least give tj yates an honest off season shot to see what he has?

Vance87
02-06-2013, 06:29 PM
we won a playoff game with tj yates and we almost beat bmore with a 3string rookie 5th round pick at qb thrust into the starting line up because of back to back injuries to our first two qbs. we played in arguably the worst division of football that year.

we would have won the division with tj yates if he was given favorable conditions to be prepared. he wasnt.

all this is conjecture but i would bet that we would still win the division.



someone who gets it.



someone who doesnt.



im not big on tj yates but if we are gonna give half a decade (and counting) to a consistently mediocre qb like matt schaub why cant we at least give tj yates an honest off season shot to see what he has?

If you think Yates can do better than 12-4, you're out of your freaking mind. He was 3-3 including the playoffs (I don't count the Titans game) With a way better defense and running game.

And by the way, we had the toughest schedule in the AFC last year. Yes, it's true, don't doubt me.

Texecutioner
02-06-2013, 06:44 PM
So, evidence that the team loves them some Schaub is the lack of negative comments from his teammates and public support from those same players.

Yet, why isn't that same logic applied to Kubiak? The players love them some Gary and publicly support him. Why is it good to use that logic in support of Schaub but not for Kubiak?


I don't recall anyone stating that the players hated Kubiak or that they were being disrespected by Mcnair and management for keeping Kubiak around. Hell, even some of the people that hate Kubiak the most over the years haven't reached that far on their agendas to blast Kubiak. You're right that I've never seen any players blast Kubiak. Only the opposite. Not that I can recall any way. This recent part of the discussion was about whether or not if the players on the team were being disrespected because the team wouldn't release Schaub.

You have always been a pretty intelligent person DB. Surely, you can agree that is a far stretch for an agenda of hyperbole. The Texans are a pretty tight nit team and have been for years. And if we were to suggest that the team is being disrespected, shouldn't we be saying that about every player that isn't playing that well or that hit a slump towards the end of the year? Not only that, but the team can't just release their starting QB when there are cap implications and when they don't have a good replacement. They just signed Schaub so there is no way they would release him now. Suggesting that Mcnair is disrespecting the other 52 members of the team is comical considering the situation.



yep, which goes back to my original point. When you can make a reasonable argument to start TJ Yates over Matt Schaub, that says a lot about our starting QB.

As far as Vance87 thinking it's fortune telling, it's really more about the past and studying history.

And the history that really matters is in the post-season. Like Jules Winnfield said, TJ Yates and Matt Schaub are equal in that regard, both beating the Bengals and losing in the 2nd round. Both QBs are 1-1 in the playoffs.

We should hope for more from Schaub than equaling the performance of a 5th round rookie.

How do you even compare the two? You make this statement as if they are two boxers or MMA fighters who fought the same dude and there weren't a ton of other players that impacted the both games. Not exactly the same when they both played two teams, and when Yates threw for what 3 or 4 picks? Schaub didn't play great by any stretch, but I don't see how that tells one thing as far as a comparison. We could have had Flacco out there or Eli Manning and still lost to the Patriots and the Ravens in both of those games. Schaub's play did fall off towards the end of the season for sure though. There is no denying that.

Yates won't be our starter for any long term situation. We'll end up bringing in some other guy at some point or we'll draft someone else. Yates might get a shot at it for a while if Schaub struggles next season, but I highly doubt that he'll keep the job for any long stretch.

Texecutioner
02-06-2013, 07:01 PM
Write a novel. Call it "Doesn't say anything" . .....

When you write stuff like this, it's fairly obvious that you aren't capable of keeping up in the discussion.

Fictional hyperbole is what got yourself in this hole once again.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 08:08 PM
Have you not watched Matt his entire career as I have? If you have ... you know the ending ...

Have you watched the NFL over that time as well? Have you seen anyone replace a QB that has produced what Matt has over that time? Yards, TDs, INTs, completion %, QBR..... wins... Have you ever seen anyone like that get replaced without being injured?

Had Drew Bledsoe not got hurt, the world would never know Tom Brady or Tony Romo.

Had Alex Smith not got hurt, we wouldn't know Collin Kaepernick.

It doesn't make sense to me to expect Kubiak to do something that no one in their right mind would do.

As far as extending Schaub... We're paying roughly $12M/yr for a starting QB. That's not Super Bowl winning starting QB money. The Ravens are going to pay Flacco nearly twice that & lose Ray Lewis, & Ed Reed... Let's just say that's going to be an interesting team to watch.

BullBlitz
02-06-2013, 08:30 PM
Have you watched the NFL over that time as well? Have you seen anyone replace a QB that has produced what Matt has over that time? Yards, TDs, INTs, completion %, QBR..... wins... Have you ever seen anyone like that get replaced without being injured?

Had Drew Bledsoe not got hurt, the world would never know Tom Brady or Tony Romo.

Had Alex Smith not got hurt, we wouldn't know Collin Kaepernick.

It doesn't make sense to me to expect Kubiak to do something that no one in their right mind would do.

As far as extending Schaub... We're paying roughly $12M/yr for a starting QB. That's not Super Bowl winning starting QB money. The Ravens are going to pay Flacco nearly twice that & lose Ray Lewis, & Ed Reed... Let's just say that's going to be an interesting team to watch.

I agree with much of your post, except the last sentence.

I don't think that this will be an interesting team to watch. I think there will be a lot of hoping, high expectations and dashed hopes. The team is loaded with a lot of talent, but neither the knowledge or much desire regarding how to actually win.

I'm looking forward to next season, but primarily to watch the teams with the good young QBs and head coaches and owners that act like they want to win.

thunderkyss
02-06-2013, 09:51 PM
I agree with much of your post, except the last sentence.

I don't think that this will be an interesting team to watch. I think there will be a lot of hoping, high expectations and dashed hopes.

I'm saying it will be interesting to see watch the Ravens in 2013. They're going to pay Flacoo somewhere close to $20M/yr & try to replace Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They're going to have 8 games against play off teams, plus two against the Steelers, and one against the Lions. That's 11 of 16 games.

It's going to be tough.

TejasTom
02-07-2013, 07:05 AM
... that's how I found out he was arrested for assault. Which is ironic given his non-confrontational on-field demeanor.

I'm pretty sure he was trying get away from a fight and fell on a bystander.

deucetx
02-07-2013, 07:16 AM
yep, which goes back to my original point. When you can make a reasonable argument to start TJ Yates over Matt Schaub, that says a lot about our starting QB.

As far as Vance87 thinking it's fortune telling, it's really more about the past and studying history.

And the history that really matters is in the post-season. Like Jules Winnfield said, TJ Yates and Matt Schaub are equal in that regard, both beating the Bengals and losing in the 2nd round. Both QBs are 1-1 in the playoffs.

We should hope for more from Schaub than equaling the performance of a 5th round rookie.

Don't you think that is a bit of a too blanket comparison? I know the media has it built in where winning and losing is all on the quarterback but the truth is at the end of the day it is a team game. Neither of these guys are the types that can take a team upon themselves and despite ill production from other elements go get us a win against top tier teams. That's just the truth of it right now.

But saying their playoff performances equal just because of where they took us is a stretch. Yates had to do nothing but management in the playoffs.

Yates - 29/55 343yards 1 TD 3 INT 63.25 QBR
Schaub - 63/89 605yards 2TD 2 INT 87 QBR

Sorry but this isn't even close. Not in a single playoff game last year did Yates even throw for 200 yards. Against the Ravens he had a potent running game with Foster running for 132yards with a 4.9 average and our offense easily outgained the Ravens because our defense was on point and shut Rice down (60yards with a 2.0avg) and did strong against Flacco yet we still lose? Many want to do the 'Blame Jacoby!' but the fact of the matter Yates telegraphed and pressed his passes into 3 interceptions and that hurt us just as much as Jacoby if not more.

So their two appearences were not equal. Not in the slightest. The Patriots game our defense was freaking horrible and couldn't even line up correctly so that lost wasn't soley on Schaub. Put Schaub in that game against the Ravens last year and we most likely win because he's not going to go around flinging 3 interceptions.

And I say this as someone who isn't a Schaub fan but a bit more realistic about what we have. Yates has yet to demonstrate anything to make him starter material. Maybe this offseason that can change but past work? Umm...no.

BullBlitz
02-07-2013, 08:15 AM
I'm saying it will be interesting to see watch the Ravens in 2013. They're going to pay Flacoo somewhere close to $20M/yr & try to replace Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They're going to have 8 games against play off teams, plus two against the Steelers, and one against the Lions. That's 11 of 16 games.

It's going to be tough.

Got it. Agree. They will have a tough schedule next year.

buddyboy
02-07-2013, 10:23 AM
I'm not the the hole.

If you defend Matt you are the hole ...

These are the least constructive posts I've ever seen.

Back on topic, this whole, "Yates has accomplished the same, therefore he is equal or better" argument is fallacy. It very well may be that Yates is has more potential, hell, he might be better than Schaub now. I'm not going to make that call.

But to base it on THAT reason is pathetic and obviously cherry picking statistics. Look at both games that ended our seasons, 2012 and 2013. Look at the play of not only the QB, but the defense, the running game, and the ST. In fact, look at them throughout the two seasons (Yates' will have to be extrapolated), and it's OBVIOUS that unlike certain posters have said, that while the argument can be made, it's not a legitimate argument.

Double Barrel
02-07-2013, 12:36 PM
I don't recall anyone stating that the players hated Kubiak or that they were being disrespected by Mcnair and management for keeping Kubiak around. Hell, even some of the people that hate Kubiak the most over the years haven't reached that far on their agendas to blast Kubiak. You're right that I've never seen any players blast Kubiak. Only the opposite. Not that I can recall any way. This recent part of the discussion was about whether or not if the players on the team were being disrespected because the team wouldn't release Schaub.

You have always been a pretty intelligent person DB. Surely, you can agree that is a far stretch for an agenda of hyperbole. The Texans are a pretty tight nit team and have been for years. And if we were to suggest that the team is being disrespected, shouldn't we be saying that about every player that isn't playing that well or that hit a slump towards the end of the year? Not only that, but the team can't just release their starting QB when there are cap implications and when they don't have a good replacement. They just signed Schaub so there is no way they would release him now. Suggesting that Mcnair is disrespecting the other 52 members of the team is comical considering the situation.

My entire point was that some folks are acting like the lack of public comments from the players means they all support him. And you, of all folks, have used that to defend Shaub.

By the same logic, nobody has ever publicly criticized Kubiak. So by logical extension, this should be seen as a good sign for Kubiak. Yet, you don't like Kubiak and dismiss this aspect.

See, agendas can be twisted to any sort of perception.

My own take is that neither Kubiak or Schaub have what it takes to win a Lombardi, but I realize we we stuck with these two for many more years. We can enjoy winning seasons and some playoff runs in the meantime, but temper expectations with reality.

How do you even compare the two? You make this statement as if they are two boxers or MMA fighters who fought the same dude and there weren't a ton of other players that impacted the both games. Not exactly the same when they both played two teams, and when Yates threw for what 3 or 4 picks? Schaub didn't play great by any stretch, but I don't see how that tells one thing as far as a comparison. We could have had Flacco out there or Eli Manning and still lost to the Patriots and the Ravens in both of those games. Schaub's play did fall off towards the end of the season for sure though. There is no denying that.

Yates won't be our starter for any long term situation. We'll end up bringing in some other guy at some point or we'll draft someone else. Yates might get a shot at it for a while if Schaub struggles next season, but I highly doubt that he'll keep the job for any long stretch.

Don't you think that is a bit of a too blanket comparison? I know the media has it built in where winning and losing is all on the quarterback but the truth is at the end of the day it is a team game. Neither of these guys are the types that can take a team upon themselves and despite ill production from other elements go get us a win against top tier teams. That's just the truth of it right now.

But saying their playoff performances equal just because of where they took us is a stretch. Yates had to do nothing but management in the playoffs.

Yates - 29/55 343yards 1 TD 3 INT 63.25 QBR
Schaub - 63/89 605yards 2TD 2 INT 87 QBR

Sorry but this isn't even close. Not in a single playoff game last year did Yates even throw for 200 yards. Against the Ravens he had a potent running game with Foster running for 132yards with a 4.9 average and our offense easily outgained the Ravens because our defense was on point and shut Rice down (60yards with a 2.0avg) and did strong against Flacco yet we still lose? Many want to do the 'Blame Jacoby!' but the fact of the matter Yates telegraphed and pressed his passes into 3 interceptions and that hurt us just as much as Jacoby if not more.

So their two appearences were not equal. Not in the slightest. The Patriots game our defense was freaking horrible and couldn't even line up correctly so that lost wasn't soley on Schaub. Put Schaub in that game against the Ravens last year and we most likely win because he's not going to go around flinging 3 interceptions.

And I say this as someone who isn't a Schaub fan but a bit more realistic about what we have. Yates has yet to demonstrate anything to make him starter material. Maybe this offseason that can change but past work? Umm...no.

While I certainly appreciate all those words for little ol' me, please understand that I am not advocating anything for TJ Yates. Dude is a back up QB.

That being said, Schaub ain't all that, either. Maybe 2010 Schaub was something, but what we ended up with last season is what it is. A very immobile, noodle-armed QB whose arm either wore out or has lost it's strength, and makes very questionable decisions in big games. None of those traits are a good thing, but all three in today's league? Signs of futility in our future.

Schaub is not even a poor-man's version of Trent Dilfer right now, so that argument doesn't even hold water to hope that we can be the Texans version of the 2000 Ravens.

Hey, y'all might believe different, and probably do, and that's fine. I'm just basing my opinions on what I saw at the end of 2012, and that's who Schaub is right now. Dude is a pedestrian QB who will need Herculean players around him and on defense, because he's not the guy who will put this team on his back and win games.

I want to like the guy. I want to root for him. As a Texans fan, I want great things for all these dudes. But what I want does not blind me to the fact of what is in front of our eyes. I'm going to hope for the best, but I will straight up tell you that my expectations are very low as long as we have mediocre people in key positions.

GP
02-07-2013, 01:00 PM
The only problem with an open QB competition in camp is... who decides who won the competition?. It is going to be Kubiak. Kubiak who played golf with Schaub before signing him. Kubiak who believes in Schaub, who has made Schaub the QB that he wants. Loyal to the point of blindness Kubiak. I don't see any possibility of there ever being a real open camp competition. If one ever happens the outcome will be foreordained with this Head Coach.

Maybe so.

It doesn't help that the ownership signed a check for Schaub after Game 1 of the 2012 season, as well. Everybody's all-in on Schaub.

You know in that Austin Powers movie where Dr. Evil steals Austin's mojo? It's like Flacco traveled back in time, to early September 2012, and stole Matt's mojo.

Personally, I'd cut Schaub and save the $4 million that someone speculated we could still save if he's not on our roster. If that's right, of course.

chenjy9
02-07-2013, 01:09 PM
I don't care if the QB is Keenum or Yates. I just know that we need a QB who looks to throw it down field past the 1st down marker when he gets forced out of the packet, not this gimpy QB who looks to either throw it out immediately or check down to some player well behind the first down line and hope they bail him out. Schaub has not shown me anything that causes me to believe he can lead us anywhere that one of our backups cannot.

Jules Winnfield
02-07-2013, 04:15 PM
If you think Yates can do better than 12-4, you're out of your freaking mind. He was 3-3 including the playoffs (I don't count the Titans game) With a way better defense and running game.

And by the way, we had the toughest schedule in the AFC last year. Yes, it's true, don't doubt me.

he went 3-3 when he was a rookie 3 string 5th round pick thrust into the starting line up with no training camp, no off season work out. Yet he was basically able to accomplish what matt schaub, a veteran in his early 30s, half a decade of experience as texans qb did this whole season.

you dont seem to get the entire point. the fact that we are comparing tj yates, a rookie, to a veteran qb.

I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

I want upward momentum. I want a proactive approach into improving the qb position. I dont care if matt has to play out a couple more years in his contract, in order to prepare a successor.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

Vance87
02-07-2013, 05:20 PM
he went 3-3 when he was a rookie 3 string 5th round pick thrust into the starting line up with no training camp, no off season work out. Yet he was basically able to accomplish what matt schaub, a veteran in his early 30s, half a decade of experience as texans qb did this whole season.

you dont seem to get the entire point. the fact that we are comparing tj yates, a rookie, to a veteran qb.

I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

I want upward momentum. I want a proactive approach into improving the qb position. I dont care if matt has to play out a couple more years in his contract, in order to prepare a successor.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

Well if in your world "basically the same" is 20-8 and 3-3, respectively, I can't argue with you any longer.

thunderkyss
02-07-2013, 06:14 PM
I dont even like tj yates. i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.


If they were to do that, you'd skin Kubiak alive for not making the play offs (if we didn't make the play offs). So why would he take that chance.

The goal is the Super Bowl, best path is to get to the play offs.


What i dont want is yeaaa matt schaub will put up stats and choke in big games, that's ok b/c we in the playoffs and we win a weak afc south.

What i dont want is the status quo lets stick with matt schaub and not look to improve.

I like Tj Yates, but his best trait, is that no one's seen him in over a year. Matt's going to do his thing in the regular season. He's not going to play bad enough to get yanked, he'll win games & he'll put us on track to get to the play offs.

But he might get hurt. I'm not hoping he gets hurt, just throwing it out there. Then it's up to Tj Yate to play like Joe Flacco & become our franchise QB.

If Flacco could do it, why not Tj? And for that matter Matt. That's why he won't get benched. Matt doesn't have the physical tools of Flacco or Yates, but he's been a better QB during the regular season for the last 5 years. So if Joe can do it, I see no reason why Matt can't.

It's not that Matt has to become fleet of foot, or increase his arm strength. All he's got to do is gain confidence in his receivers & give them a chance to make a play. They, of course, have to make that play, like Posey in the end zone.

Vance87
02-07-2013, 06:25 PM
If they were to do that, you'd skin Kubiak alive for not making the play offs (if we didn't make the play offs). So why would he take that chance.

Someone who gets it


i dont think he's the answer. What im saying is lets see what he has. we already know what we got with schaub. lets see what we have in yates or keenum or lets see what qbs are available in the draft, trade, or free agency. Open up the qb competition this year.

Someone who doesn't.

CloakNNNdagger
02-11-2013, 08:00 PM
An interesting national piece I just came across.

Whispers [From ProFootballWeekly]

Was injury behind Schaub's late-season issues? (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/02/09/was-injury-behind-schaubs-late-season-issues)

Posted Feb. 09, 2013 @ 6:39 p.m. ET
By PFW staff

Here are the latest Whispers we're hearing from our sources throughout the NFL:

• What was the reason behind Texans QB Matt Schaub’s struggles down the stretch in 2012? Is it possible that an undisclosed injury played a part? The Texans will say adamantly that wasn’t the case. Ditto for Schaub. But for a player as prickly about his injury-prone label as Schaub, coming off a fresh contract extension and with the biggest expectations of his career on his shoulders, it is possible, we hear, that Schaub didn’t want to reveal an injury that might have adversely affected his play, for fear that it would only increase his dubious reputation for always being nicked up. He never even appeared on the injury report last season, despite a number of big shots, including having part of his ear removed by Broncos LB Joe Mays. The one thing we know for sure is that Schaub’s accuracy and effectiveness waned in the final quarter of the season.

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 09:03 PM
An interesting national piece I just came across.

It still makes no sense to me that Schaub would play in the meaningless Pro Bowl if he should have been resting/healing up his injury so he can be 100% for next season. If it was his first Pro Bowl, I understand, but this is his second & he was the MVP of the last one he was in.

However, what really worried me was this bit:
ē ESPNís Adam Schefter reported prior to the Super Bowl that Ravens free-agent S Ed Reed could be on the way to Indianapolis, where he would be reunited with head coach Chuck Pagano. We hear that connection makes a ton of sense, as the Colts sorely lacked a playmaker on the back end of the defense a season ago, and Reed and Pagano have a strong relationship. However, the scuttlebutt could be Reedís contract demands. If he is looking for a long-term deal, it isnít likely to come from the Colts, who wonít be willing to invest heavily on an aging, albeit future Hall of Fame safety, like Reed, who has had injury issues creep up of late.

CloakNNNdagger
02-11-2013, 09:41 PM
It still makes no sense to me that Schaub would play in the meaningless Pro Bowl if he should have been resting/healing up his injury so he can be 100% for next season. If it was his first Pro Bowl, I understand, but this is his second & he was the MVP of the last one he was in.



It makes a good deal of sense if he is dealing with mostly escalating foot pain from post traumatic changes, early arthritis and even minimal foot instability, neither of which are likely to be significantly adversely affected by one extra game (which could have been in his mind his ticket to rehabbing some of his in-season compromised reputation).......and a situation unlikely to be greatly improved with an intermediate period of rest that is followed by another long foot-wearing season. Can you think back to the last time you saw Schaub give us his past years' signature play action jump passes. It wouldn't have been this year. That maneuver would require jumping off of his right dominant foot......and then coming down on it hard.

Brisco_County
02-11-2013, 11:29 PM
Despite his subpar performance at the Pro Bowl, it's interesting that he was able to run for an 11 yard first down. He couldn't run for a first down all season, but he looked like an actual athlete after two weeks of rest. It lends to the observation that he was a completely different QB after the Detroit game. It's obvious that the condition of his foot is affecting him. So the question is: Will it be more durable after an offseason of rest?

Jules Winnfield
02-13-2013, 05:34 PM
Despite his subpar performance at the Pro Bowl, it's interesting that he was able to run for an 11 yard first down. He couldn't run for a first down all season, but he looked like an actual athlete after two weeks of rest. It lends to the observation that he was a completely different QB after the Detroit game. It's obvious that the condition of his foot is affecting him. So the question is: Will it be more durable after an offseason of rest?

Another great moment for Matt Schaub, the pro bowl legend.

:wadepalm:


its the probowl. its basically flag football for defense out there.

Brisco_County
02-14-2013, 11:48 PM
Just throwing this out there.

Sources have told WalterFootball.com that Cousins' football IQ is tremendous. Having him in the meeting room helped Griffin to develop, and the two quarterbacks worked extremely well together. With Griffin coming off a knee injury, Cousins should see a lot of good developmental snaps with the starters during the spring OTAs and mini-camps.

Even though there are plenty of teams that could be interested in trading for Cousins, sources have told WalterFootball.com that the Redskins have zero interest in dealing him. Allen will assuredly listen to what another team would offer him, but Washington will not be shopping Cousins. He could be a needed fill-in for the Redskins in 2013 and they love having a reliable backup like Cousins.

Thus, the 2014 or 2015 offseason would be the time to shop Cousins. If he gets on the field and performs well, obviously he will drive up the price tag and Washington could hope to regain some of the first-round picks the team used to land Griffin.

Link (http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php)

Around the time that the Redskins would presumably be willing to trade would be when Schaub's guaranteed money could be covered.

Brisco_County
02-15-2013, 12:00 AM
Another great moment for Matt Schaub, the pro bowl legend.

:wadepalm:


its the probowl. its basically flag football for defense out there.

The post was about his physical ability to run, which hardly existed during the season.

CloakNNNdagger
02-19-2013, 08:56 AM
From KFFL:

Texans | Owner thinks 2011 injury affected Matt Schaub in 2012

Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said he believes the foot injury QB Matt Schaub suffered during the 2011 season may have affected his play this season. "I think that the injury he had did slow him down some," McNair said. "He was probably in the back of his mind a little concerned about reinjuring his foot, and we certainly didn't want to see that happen. He's gonna work hard in the offseason on improving his foot speed, and I think that will happen."

2013-02-08 14:20:56 | Source: HoustonTexans.com - Nick Scurfield

handswarmer
02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
It still makes no sense to me that Schaub would play in the meaningless Pro Bowl if he should have been resting/healing up his injury so he can be 100% for next season. If it was his first Pro Bowl, I understand, but this is his second & he was the MVP of the last one he was in.

However, what really worried me was this bit:


If the Colts won't give Reed a long term deal, which is what he wants becaue thats the only way he will ge paid what he wants to get paid (even though he made $7mill this year) then it shouldn't be a concern.

I bet he stays a Raven

Kgbmedic
09-11-2013, 10:50 AM
I saw some improvement in his scrambling abilities in the SD game. He was actually avoiding rushers and hustling to the outside to extend the play.

Then I saw a revert back to the old schaub of laying down when someone got near him on that big loss sack. I hope to see the former the rest of the season. It is good that he has worked on his scrambling abilities. I suspect the back up QB battle that has been going on has forced him to up his game as well.

silvrhand
09-26-2013, 08:45 AM
If he throws another pick 6 what are the odds Kubiak pulls him we all know he does this with the running backs but what about the QB.

disaacks3
09-26-2013, 08:50 AM
If he throws another pick 6 what are the odds Kubiak pulls him we all know he does this with the running backs but what about the QB. Unless he's hurt, he's NOT coming out. Bank it.

silvrhand
09-26-2013, 09:03 AM
Unless he's hurt, he's NOT coming out. Bank it.

Kubiak/Dennison didn't sound too happy with him this morning, and Kubiak isn't throwing it on his back. Will be interesting to watch and see if they pull him if he's not protecting the ball better.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-find-out-firsthand-how-pick-sixes-change-games-in-a-hurry/

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/09/25/texans-oc-schaub-made-bad-decisions/

Pollardized
09-26-2013, 09:03 AM
Unless he's hurt, he's NOT coming out. Bank it.

With Seattle's defense, this is a possibility.

Not to mention Schaub's hands are soft, like a lady...

chenjy9
09-26-2013, 10:47 AM
Is it wrong for me as a fan to hope Schaub gets some mysterious injury that only affects his football career so we can force Kubes to play someone else? I am just so sick of Schaub... :(

Insideop
09-26-2013, 11:04 AM
Unless he's hurt, he's NOT coming out. Bank it.

If Schaub has another game like he had in Baltimore this coming week against Seattle I think Kubes might give him another chance. But, if he does the same against the Niners, I think they bench him. I don't see Kubes staying with Schaub if he (Schaub) is losing the games for them, regardless of how loyal some people think Kubes is about certain coaches and players. The question then becomes, who does he go with, Yates or Keenum? I know he said Yates was #2, but I still wonder. :thinking: Nah, he'd go with Yates.

thunderkyss
09-26-2013, 11:36 AM
Kubiak/Dennison didn't sound too happy with him this morning, and Kubiak isn't throwing it on his back. Will be interesting to watch and see if they pull him if he's not protecting the ball better.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/09/texans-find-out-firsthand-how-pick-sixes-change-games-in-a-hurry/

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/09/25/texans-oc-schaub-made-bad-decisions/

This is the most group-think organization I've ever seen. If they're saying it publicly, you can be sure that everyone from Bob McNair to the Long snapper has discussed it before hand.

This imo, is to increase the perception of Matt Schaub as the team leader. While it is being publicly stated that Schaub has to get better, I guarantee every player in that locker room understands he (themselves) have to play better to win a Super Bowl.

Playmaker
09-26-2013, 01:02 PM
I'm just waiting for next offseason. I've concluded we can't go to the SB with Schaub at the helm, so it will be interesting what Smith/Kubiak will decide this upcoming offseason (I believe this is his last year of guaranteed money). I'll enjoy this season for any success/wins we get but not a lot of expectations outside of winning our division.

ArTex
09-26-2013, 07:24 PM
Rodney Harrison: "Defenses Don't Fear Schaub"
http://youtu.be/Ypuk3Kip-WI

Not sure how much "intimidation" at QB really really matters. Small video, but for what its worth

BullBlitz
09-26-2013, 08:01 PM
If Schaub has another game like he had in Baltimore this coming week against Seattle I think Kubes might give him another chance. But, if he does the same against the Niners, I think they bench him.

No way. We are going to be forced to watch him as long as he can play.

Premier
09-27-2013, 01:24 AM
Rodney Harrison: "Defenses Don't Fear Schaub"
http://youtu.be/Ypuk3Kip-WI

Not sure how much "intimidation" at QB really really matters. Small video, but for what its worth

thats what ive been thinking for years.. there isnt a defense in this league that fears matt schaub..

I'm just waiting for next offseason. I've concluded we can't go to the SB with Schaub at the helm,

i find myself being less enthused about football this year. i feel defeated.. i would love to be wrong but there isnt a homer gene in me that believes schaub is a super bowl winning qb.. ive disliked the guy for years now but ive convinced myself in the past he might be good enough, not anymore. ive even been at the point i would rather sink with tj than coast with schaub to division round fluff..

thunderkyss
09-27-2013, 07:03 AM
i feel defeated.. i would love to be wrong but there isnt a homer gene in me that believes schaub is a super bowl winning qb.. ive disliked the guy for years now but ive convinced myself in the past he might be good enough, not anymore. ive even been at the point i would rather sink with tj than coast with schaub to division round fluff..

I'm close.

I was talking to a friend about him today, & the best thing either of us can say about him, is that he's not a bad QB. Can't say he's great, can't say defenses game plan for him the way you would for a Brady, or Roethlisberger, or even a Kaepernick.

I'd imagine it's like facing Romo. The defense says, "We've just got to weather the storm a little bit & wait for him to make a mistake." I'm sure there's a bit of that for every QB, but moreso for these guys, because they know it's going to happen. Where a Roethlisberger or a Kaepernick can make enough plays to overcome the mistakes, we've seen that's not the case with Schaub & Romo.

You've got to take the ball out of their hands, with a DeMarco Murray or a Foster/Tate.

Luckily for us, we've got a Foster/Tate, just gotta get that thing going.

& yes, it appears Big Ben is having difficulty overcoming his mistakes, with the lack of play-makers around him But we've got our play-makers.

IlliniJen
09-27-2013, 08:50 AM
Here's a depressing article about Schaub's record in games that count:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/09/analysis_matt_schaubs_winner_l.php

silvrhand
09-27-2013, 09:06 AM
Here's a depressing article about Schaub's record in games that count:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/09/analysis_matt_schaubs_winner_l.php

this article sums up exactly how I feel about Schaublem and Conserviak.

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2013, 09:09 AM
Here's a depressing article about Schaub's record in games that count:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/09/analysis_matt_schaubs_winner_l.php

Thanks for posting this article. Rep coming your way.

I remember originally posting Kubiak's "winner" statement here about Schaub...... with a WTF. This article so solidifies the reality of the antithesis of this statement.

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2013, 09:11 AM
I'm close.

I was talking to a friend about him today, & the best thing either of us can say about him, is that he's not a bad QB. Can't say he's great, can't say defenses game plan for him the way you would for a Brady, or Roethlisberger, or even a Kaepernick.

I'd imagine it's like facing Romo. The defense says, "We've just got to weather the storm a little bit & wait for him to make a mistake." I'm sure there's a bit of that for every QB, but moreso for these guys, because they know it's going to happen. Where a Roethlisberger or a Kaepernick can make enough plays to overcome the mistakes, we've seen that's not the case with Schaub & Romo.

You've got to take the ball out of their hands, with a DeMarco Murray or a Foster/Tate.

Luckily for us, we've got a Foster/Tate, just gotta get that thing going.

& yes, it appears Big Ben is having difficulty overcoming his mistakes, with the lack of play-makers around him But we've got our play-makers.

Good post. MSR

thunderkyss
09-27-2013, 10:26 AM
Here's a depressing article about Schaub's record in games that count:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/09/analysis_matt_schaubs_winner_l.php

Going for a 3-0 start ranks as a "big game" several times in that little snippet...

I didn't want to read more than the first page because he was already fabricating his own little bit of history (just because Schaub didn't throw the ball more than 18 yards in the air does not mean we toned down the game plan, or that Kubiak doesn't trust Matt). Got to the second page & he's really spinning it.

If Kubiak did not & does not trust Schaub, Schaub wouldn't be here & our back-ups wouldn't be Tj "nobody" Yates & Case "even more of a nobody" Keenum.

There are issues with Schaub. There are issues with Kubiak. This blog misses on both accounts.

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2013, 04:23 PM
Kubiak speaks as though it's not him holding Schaub back:

(on if he is ever worried about QB Matt Schaub pressing, especially after he talks to him following pick-sixes or if he wants quarterbacks to not play afraid) ďOh yeah. First off, I want all guys to cut loose. I want them to play. I donít want guys playing timid or those types of things. I want them to be aggressive in their play. Itís just focus. The biggest with the turnovers that weíve had this year and, I think heíd be the first one to tell you, theyíve been really out of character as far as the four (interceptions). Normally, youíre going to get a ball tipped or somethingís going to happen on an interception and there isnít a whole lot you can do about it, but the decision-making process you can do something about. So thatís something heís got to improve upon. The one thing about a quarterback, you can be doing it all right for 30 times and do it wrong one time, and make a really poor decision, and it really hurts your football team. Itís just consistency all day long.Ē

HJam72
09-27-2013, 06:05 PM
Here's a depressing article about Schaub's record in games that count:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/09/analysis_matt_schaubs_winner_l.php

He talked about Brady being known for pocket presence, Brees for accuracy, & Manning for IQ, but I know what Schaub is actually known for & it's exactly what you'd expect from Kubiak's QB: the fake hand-off...

Not IQ, or accuracy, or arm-strength, it's one of the most BASIC things a QB does. I know it's a good thing to be that good at it, but it's kind of messed up that his greatest strength as a QB is pretending to hand the ball to his RB.

Nitrofish
09-28-2013, 12:18 AM
He talked about Brady being known for pocket presence, Brees for accuracy, & Manning for IQ, but I know what Schaub is actually known for & it's exactly what you'd expect from Kubiak's QB: the fake hand-off...

Not IQ, or accuracy, or arm-strength, it's one of the most BASIC things a QB does. I know it's a good thing to be that good at it, but it's kind of messed up that his greatest strength as a QB is pretending to hand the ball to his RB.

More Schaub bashing. lol Cuz we all know that the Houston Press and Sean Pendergast are sports authorities right?

Schaub's tenure in Houston has been marked by rampant criticism. Wherever he may rank in the pantheon of NFL quarterbacks, consider this:

In their first five seasons, the Texans were 24-56 (.300) with five losing seasons. In the six seasons since Schaub arrived in 2007, the Texans are 53-43 (.552) with one losing season and two AFC South titles.

Schaub ranks seventh in NFL history in completion percentage (64.3), ahead of Tom Brady and Joe Montana. He ranks 11th all time in passer rating (91.9) and 12th in passing yards per attempt (7.77).

Since 2007, he's ninth in the NFL in passer rating (93.3), ahead of Matt Ryan (90.9), Michael Vick (87.8), Eli Manning (86.5) and Joe Flacco (86.3).

And Schaub's 261.4 passing yards per game since joining the Texans would rank third in NFL history behind only Drew Brees (270.1) and Peyton Manning (265.6). Elite? Maybe not, but certainly better than he gets credit for.

Pendergast is just another biased Schaub hater who only looks at his flaws and never gives him credit for his strengths, or wins. Schaub bashing has become a sport, and each are trying to outdo the last.

Shameless
:kubepalm:

Lucky
09-28-2013, 06:35 AM
Pendergast is just another biased Schaub hater who only looks at his flaws and never gives him credit for his strengths, or wins. Schaub bashing has become a sport, and each are trying to outdo the last.

I think reaching back to 2007 to criticize Schaub is unfair and misses the point. Pointing out Schaub's recent play is fair. And he has not played to the level he attained in the past. I think the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 would be capable of doing his part in bringing a championship to Houston. The Matt Schaub we've seen recently is not.

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 08:15 AM
I think reaching back to 2007 to criticize Schaub is unfair and misses the point. Pointing out Schaub's recent play is fair. And he has not played to the level he attained in the past. I think the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 would be capable of doing his part in bringing a championship to Houston. The Matt Schaub we've seen recently is not.

Do you think his play falling off coincides with his foot injury?

I will go with C-N-D on this one and if he's right Schaub's play aint going to get better. (Happy thought for the day)

Good news is Seattle is missing 3 starting OL Sunday, including their C/LT. I actually think the Texans are going to shock the world and get a win, if the offense doesn't turn the ball over.

Steel B's lock of the week O/U 41.5 take the U

Nitrofish
09-28-2013, 08:42 AM
I think reaching back to 2007 to criticize Schaub is unfair and misses the point. Pointing out Schaub's recent play is fair. And he has not played to the level he attained in the past. I think the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 would be capable of doing his part in bringing a championship to Houston. The Matt Schaub we've seen recently is not.

Fair enough, but are you saying that because Schaub had one bad game this year that it requires this level of scrutiny? Schaub played well in the first two games, then goes on the road to a place the Texans have never won at and lays and egg and suddenly all the Schaub haters ramp up their rhetoric and you think that is fair?

All of this we could be 0-3 stuff is silly. We could just as easily be 3-0, or 1-2, and to pretend that Schaub is to blame for all of the Texans woes is way too easy. The glaring mistakes by the pass rush, and pass coverage have just as much to do with what happened in Baltimore as how Schaub played, but I do not hear you guys calling for Wade's head, or calling out Jackson, or Joseph for their less than stellar play.

all this finger pointing is childish, and there are allot more things wrong with the 2013 Houston Texans than the bad game Schaub had last week. But I realize that it is week 3, and all teams are struggling to play at their full potential, not just the Texans, and what my post illustrates is that what Kubiak said was true. Matt Schaub's play (Along with allot of others) has turned this club from a perennial loser, to a contender, and those stats prove that. To ignore or dismiss them because of one game is ludicrous.

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 08:49 AM
More Schaub bashing. lol Cuz we all know that the Houston Press and Sean Pendergast are sports authorities right?

Schaub's tenure in Houston has been marked by rampant criticism. Wherever he may rank in the pantheon of NFL quarterbacks, consider this:

In their first five seasons, the Texans were 24-56 (.300) with five losing seasons. In the six seasons since Schaub arrived in 2007, the Texans are 53-43 (.552) with one losing season and two AFC South titles.

Schaub ranks seventh in NFL history in completion percentage (64.3), ahead of Tom Brady and Joe Montana. He ranks 11th all time in passer rating (91.9) and 12th in passing yards per attempt (7.77).

Since 2007, he's ninth in the NFL in passer rating (93.3), ahead of Matt Ryan (90.9), Michael Vick (87.8), Eli Manning (86.5) and Joe Flacco (86.3).

And Schaub's 261.4 passing yards per game since joining the Texans would rank third in NFL history behind only Drew Brees (270.1) and Peyton Manning (265.6). Elite? Maybe not, but certainly better than he gets credit for.

Pendergast is just another biased Schaub hater who only looks at his flaws and never gives him credit for his strengths, or wins. Schaub bashing has become a sport, and each are trying to outdo the last.

Shameless
:kubepalm:

I really wish people would stop quoting completion % as a good stat for Matt. It's not like Matt is throwing laser bombs, he's a QB in a run first play action that has a great RB, TE, and WR. He's in the perfect system, lots of swings, screens, and bad passes that he's getting bailed out by his receivers.

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 08:51 AM
Fair enough, but are you saying that because Schaub had one bad game this year that it requires this level of scrutiny? Schaub played well in the first two games, then goes on the road to a place the Texans have never won at and lays and egg and suddenly all the Schaub haters ramp up their rhetoric and you think that is fair?

All of this we could be 0-3 stuff is silly. We could just as easily be 3-0, or 1-2, and to pretend that Schaub is to blame for all of the Texans woes is way too easy. The glaring mistakes by the pass rush, and pass coverage have just as much to do with what happened in Baltimore as how Schaub played, but I do not hear you guys calling for Wade's head, or calling out Jackson, or Joseph for their less than stellar play.

all this finger pointing is childish, and there are allot more things wrong with the 2013 Houston Texans than the bad game Schaub had last week. But I realize that it is week 3, and all teams are struggling to play at their full potential, not just the Texans, and what my post illustrates is that what Kubiak said was true. Matt Schaub's play (Along with allot of others) has turned this club from a perennial loser, to a contender, and those stats prove that. To ignore or dismiss them because of one game is ludicrous.

Did you actually watch the TN game, he has one good game, the rest was not just bad but really really bad.

Nitrofish
09-28-2013, 08:59 AM
I really wish people would stop quoting completion % as a good stat for Matt. It's not like Matt is throwing laser bombs, he's a QB in a run first play action that has a great RB, TE, and WR. He's in the perfect system, lots of swings, screens, and bad passes that he's getting bailed out by his receivers.

I love this... Do you have anything to base your opinion on or are you just throwing that out there? The perfect system? Wait, I thought the Texans system is antiquated and predictable and that is why we lose games? And now you try to use it as an argument for why Schaub is accurate? lol You cannot have it both ways. As far as laser bombs go, our system does not rely on massive vertical strikes, but rather strategic ones, and then conservative play that eats up clock, so it's no wonder Schaub is not airing it out every play. He is not required too.

Did you actually watch the TN game, he has one good game, the rest was not just bad but really really bad.

No don't be silly. I don't actually watch the games. I just make this stuff up as I go along. On a serious note. Matt Schaub won the TN game with not one, but two great drives and a perfect throw to the rookie in the end zone. He played well when the game was on the line against what appears to be a pretty good defense, and that is all that matters. But sure, you go ahead and say it was everyone else bailing him out, not him actually making the plays because that makes perfect sense.

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 09:10 AM
More Schaub bashing. lol Cuz we all know that the Houston Press and Sean Pendergast are sports authorities right?

Schaub's tenure in Houston has been marked by rampant criticism. Wherever he may rank in the pantheon of NFL quarterbacks, consider this:

In their first five seasons, the Texans were 24-56 (.300) with five losing seasons. In the six seasons since Schaub arrived in 2007, the Texans are 53-43 (.552) with one losing season and two AFC South titles.

Schaub ranks seventh in NFL history in completion percentage (64.3), ahead of Tom Brady and Joe Montana. He ranks 11th all time in passer rating (91.9) and 12th in passing yards per attempt (7.77).

Since 2007, he's ninth in the NFL in passer rating (93.3), ahead of Matt Ryan (90.9), Michael Vick (87.8), Eli Manning (86.5) and Joe Flacco (86.3).

And Schaub's 261.4 passing yards per game since joining the Texans would rank third in NFL history behind only Drew Brees (270.1) and Peyton Manning (265.6). Elite? Maybe not, but certainly better than he gets credit for.

Pendergast is just another biased Schaub hater who only looks at his flaws and never gives him credit for his strengths, or wins. Schaub bashing has become a sport, and each are trying to outdo the last.

Shameless
:kubepalm:

So, with all of the stats quoting and crap, do you believe Schaub's the guy to win the Texans a Lombardi? Because if he's not then the Team is just wasting time. It's my belief that there is no way Schaub can win a SB. Before the foot injury I would've been in agreement with you, that he could win a SB. If that's the way you feel.

Nitrofish
09-28-2013, 09:20 AM
So, with all of the stats quoting and crap, do you believe Schaub's the guy to win the Texans a Lombardi? Because if he's not then the Team is just wasting time. It's my belief that there is no way Schaub can win a SB. Before the foot injury I would've been in agreement with you, that he could win a SB. If that's the way you feel.

Well let's see... He is our best chance vs anyone we have on our team, and anyone else available on the FA market so yes, I believe he can play well enough to win the Lombardi.

His foot injury two years ago has nothing to do with his current play. That is more likely due to our offensive line playing pretty poorly not affording Schaub the time he needs to make the play, because when he has been given the time he has carved up the opposing D nicely so far. The picks are mostly tipped balls, and there is little Schaub can do about that, but once again, if the defenders were being blocked and not up in his grill on nearly every passing situation, those may not have happened, and could have just as easily been big plays for Schaub and the team.

People said "There is no way" men could go to the moon, or fly in the air, or run the 40 in under a certain amount of time, or make a potato chips taste like pizza, or have electricity in every home in America. But in every one of those, and many more cases they were wrong, and so are you.

If the likes of Flacco, Dilfer, Williams, Bradshaw and many others can win the Lombardi, so can Schaub.

CloakNNNdagger
09-28-2013, 09:46 AM
After game interview:


http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/lucky_4a2ed6_662322.gif

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 09:58 AM
I will go with C-N-D on this one and if he's right Schaub's play aint going to get better. (Happy thought for the day)


Nothing against CnD, but I'm seeing a better than 2011 Schaub out there. Sure enough, we'll see come January.

Schaub most likely won't do anything spectacular, we're numb to what he does, but the numbers will be there, I'm thinking even better. Right now he's dealing with protection issues & new receivers.. .Kubiak is tweaking the offense, a lot of change we're not even aware of (like the OL splits, I've never seen them that wide), so we're going to struggle & this year the group-think has decided to put it all on Schaub's shoulders & he's taking it like a man.

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 10:12 AM
all this finger pointing is childish...

Great post.

& if what Brian Cushing said was meant the way our fans want to believe, it's not good for the Houston Texans. It would be the beginning of the end of the Texans as we know them. Just like Rex Ryan is allowed to stay in NY & try again, Kubiak will be here till this iteration of the team is no more & we're starting on another.

I hope Cushing was not saying what they think he was saying.

dream_team
09-28-2013, 10:13 AM
I really wish people would stop quoting completion % as a good stat for Matt. It's not like Matt is throwing laser bombs, he's a QB in a run first play action that has a great RB, TE, and WR. He's in the perfect system, lots of swings, screens, and bad passes that he's getting bailed out by his receivers.

Well not only does he have a high completion percentage, but he also has a high yards per attempt. So he's not exactly dinking & dunking all the time.

And all of the great QBs had great receivers (except for Brady alot of years). Montana & Young had great receivers. Peyton always had some of the leagues best receivers. Brees has Colston, Graham & Sproles to bail him out. Rodgers had arguably the best receiving core the past few years.

I'm also getting tired of people saying Schaub is a product of the 'system'. If we are a perennial top 10 offense (in both yards and scoring), despite the play of our "crappy" QB, Kubiak deserves more credit as an offensive mastermind.

dream_team
09-28-2013, 10:20 AM
I love this... Do you have anything to base your opinion on or are you just throwing that out there? The perfect system? Wait, I thought the Texans system is antiquated and predictable and that is why we lose games? And now you try to use it as an argument for why Schaub is accurate? lol You cannot have it both ways. As far as laser bombs go, our system does not rely on massive vertical strikes, but rather strategic ones, and then conservative play that eats up clock, so it's no wonder Schaub is not airing it out every play. He is not required too.

This! ^^^

People are asking, "What happened to 2010 Matt?" Nothing happened to him, the big difference is we have a good defense now. We don't need an aggressive offense to keep pace with the other team anymore.

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 10:28 AM
Jake Plummer.

Kubiak/Shanahan took what was basically Tony Romo & made him a winner. AFC Championship game & Super Bowl contender.

Regardless what we think of Schaub I think we can all agree that we can get to an AFC Championship game with him if Kubiak/Shanahan can take Plummer to the AFC Championship game & if we can get to the AFC Championship game, there's a good chance we can get to the Super Bowl.

Right now Schaub has a better chance of winning the Super Bowl than RG3, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick, Matt Ryan, even Colin Kaepernick. Even is he's just lucky, this is where we are.

2012Champs
09-28-2013, 11:07 AM
Did you actually watch the TN game, he has one good game, the rest was not just bad but really really bad.



As has been pointed out you have to explain why his completion % and yards per attempt are both high

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 01:06 PM
Well let's see... He is our best chance vs anyone we have on our team, and anyone else available on the FA market so yes, I believe he can play well enough to win the Lombardi.

His foot injury two years ago has nothing to do with his current play. That is more likely due to our offensive line playing pretty poorly not affording Schaub the time he needs to make the play, because when he has been given the time he has carved up the opposing D nicely so far. The picks are mostly tipped balls, and there is little Schaub can do about that, but once again, if the defenders were being blocked and not up in his grill on nearly every passing situation, those may not have happened, and could have just as easily been big plays for Schaub and the team.

People said "There is no way" men could go to the moon, or fly in the air, or run the 40 in under a certain amount of time, or make a potato chips taste like pizza, or have electricity in every home in America. But in every one of those, and many more cases they were wrong, and so are you.

If the likes of Flacco, Dilfer, Williams, Bradshaw and many others can win the Lombardi, so can Schaub.

Compare the 2009-2010 tape to the 2012-2013 tape and tell me if you think Matt is the same guy. The rest of the team has to be perfect to carry Matt, is this the same with Manning? Monday night Manning seemed to be able to have his offense rise to the occasion despite the OL missing LT Clady and C Walton.

Time will tell who's right or wrong on this. So you have no idea if I'm wrong. I do respect the fact that you are calling your shot right now. I would hope that you respect my position. I hope you're right and Schaub gets us to a SB.

I tell you what, I will make a bet with you, I will buy YOU a Super Bowl ticket if the Texans MAKE the Super Bowl. If they dont you cut me a check for $1000.00. I'm putting my $$$$ where my mouth is. (You're getting the better of the deal $$$$ wise and the Texans should make the playoffs, so all you need is Matt to step up in big games.) Looking forward to seeing your reply soon.

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 01:16 PM
Well let's see... He is our best chance vs anyone we have on our team, and anyone else available on the FA market so yes, I believe he can play well enough to win the Lombardi.

His foot injury two years ago has nothing to do with his current play. That is more likely due to our offensive line playing pretty poorly not affording Schaub the time he needs to make the play, because when he has been given the time he has carved up the opposing D nicely so far. The picks are mostly tipped balls, and there is little Schaub can do about that, but once again, if the defenders were being blocked and not up in his grill on nearly every passing situation, those may not have happened, and could have just as easily been big plays for Schaub and the team.

People said "There is no way" men could go to the moon, or fly in the air, or run the 40 in under a certain amount of time, or make a potato chips taste like pizza, or have electricity in every home in America. But in every one of those, and many more cases they were wrong, and so are you.

If the likes of Flacco, Dilfer, Williams, Bradshaw and many others can win the Lombardi, so can Schaub.

If Schaub's their best chance the they're screwed. The OL is hurt, but guess what the Seahawks/49ers/Broncos OL's are also hurt and they dont seem to be having the ofensive problems that the Texans are having. So, that's either on Gary/Matt or some combination of the two.

I dont seem to remember the int's against the Tinbreds or Balt being tipped. But my mind could be failing me. Or you could just be making sh*t up as you go.

infantrycak
09-28-2013, 01:27 PM
If Schaub's their best chance the they're screwed. The OL is hurt, but guess what the Seahawks/49ers/Broncos OL's are also hurt and they dont seem to be having the ofensive problems that the Texans are having. So, that's either on Gary/Matt or some combination of the two.

The Niners have looked horrible 2 of 4 games with resulting blowouts.

I dont seem to remember the int's against the Tinbreds or Balt being tipped. But my mind could be failing me. Or you could just be making sh*t up as you go.

Two of Schaub's first three INTs were off tips. The first play of the game against San Diego and one of the two against the Tacks (not the pick six).

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 02:12 PM
I tell you what, I will make a bet with you, I will buy YOU a Super Bowl ticket if the Texans MAKE the Super Bowl. If they dont you cut me a check for $1000.00. I'm putting my $$$$ where my mouth is. (You're getting the better of the deal $$$$ wise and the Texans should make the playoffs, so all you need is Matt to step up in big games.) Looking forward to seeing your reply soon.

that's not a money where your mouth is bet, that's taking the long odds, stacking the deck in your favor.

Make it an Afc Championship ticket for an Afc Championship game appearance or I'll cut you a check for $200 & I'm your huckleberry.

busterspencer
09-28-2013, 02:29 PM
Of course not. All wins are credited to anyone but Schaub/Kubiak, and all losses are directly their fault. WE GET IT! :spin:

Amen...Schaub and Kube never get any of the credit...I remember Carr and the other coach..

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 02:32 PM
As has been pointed out you have to explain why his completion % and yards per attempt are both high

I'm not sure why people think his yards per attempt are high? He's actually horrible for the year.

18 attempts have been 0 yards, or < LOS.
59 attempts have been > then 0 and < 9 yards.
77 attempts out of 128 attempts are less than 9 yards accounts for 60% of his passes.. Ouch.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GVLp7xhfhjI/Ukcuu6e-dFI/AAAAAAAAEPo/jy1jEesMHvE/w677-h448-no/schaub.jpg

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 03:36 PM
that's not a money where your mouth is bet, that's taking the long odds, stacking the deck in your favor.

Make it an Afc Championship ticket for an Afc Championship game appearance or I'll cut you a check for $200 & I'm your huckleberry.

You're not a true believer that Shaub is going to take the team to the SB? If NF was he would take the bet.

I tell you what, $200 bet, you win if the Texans make the AFC championship game this yr. I hope I'm paying you $$$$. LOL

DocBar
09-28-2013, 04:01 PM
I'm not sure why people think his yards per attempt are high? He's actually horrible for the year.

18 attempts have been 0 yards, or < LOS.
59 attempts have been > then 0 and < 9 yards.
77 attempts out of 128 attempts are less than 9 yards accounts for 60% of his passes.. Ouch.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GVLp7xhfhjI/Ukcuu6e-dFI/AAAAAAAAEPo/jy1jEesMHvE/w677-h448-no/schaub.jpgAre those stats you posted the overall distance a play covered or the distance Schaub actually threw to his receivers? YPA could seem high if there's decent YAC despite not throwing the ball deep. You know, like WCO was designed? :kitten:

rpagz3
09-28-2013, 04:07 PM
Schaub can't handle the pressure when the pocket collapses.

DX-TEX
09-28-2013, 04:09 PM
Schaub can't handle the pressure when the pocket collapses.

Well thank you Captain Obvious! Have anymore unknown insight to share?

infantrycak
09-28-2013, 04:20 PM
I'm not sure why people think his yards per attempt are high? He's actually horrible for the year.

18 attempts have been 0 yards, or < LOS.
59 attempts have been > then 0 and < 9 yards.
77 attempts out of 128 attempts are less than 9 yards accounts for 60% of his passes.. Ouch.

Not sure where you got your numbers. ESPN has:

23 behind LOS
63 1-10
35 11-20
7 20+

So 67% 10 or less yards in the air (that may be some of the number difference but this is more indicative of the QB play). But is that ouch?

Flacco 66.4%
Rodgers 70.5%
Manning 67%
non-Peyton 61.4%
Brady 70%
Big Ben 56%
Ryan 72%
Dalton 71%

Would appear not to be. The only two QBs with significantly lower percentages have a combined record this season of 0-6.

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 04:24 PM
You're not a true believer that Shaub is going to take the team to the SB? If NF was he would take the bet.

I tell you what, $200 bet, you win if the Texans make the AFC championship game this yr. I hope I'm paying you $$$$. LOL

Again, this is a put my money where my mouth is bet. You suggested to put your money where your mouth is.... You've got to give me better odds to meet that criteria.

ObsiWan
09-28-2013, 07:05 PM
Compare the 2009-2010 tape to the 2012-2013 tape and tell me if you think Matt is the same guy. The rest of the team has to be perfect to carry Matt, is this the same with Manning? Monday night Manning seemed to be able to have his offense rise to the occasion despite the OL missing LT Clady and C Walton.

Time will tell who's right or wrong on this. So you have no idea if I'm wrong. I do respect the fact that you are calling your shot right now. I would hope that you respect my position. I hope you're right and Schaub gets us to a SB.

I tell you what, I will make a bet with you, I will buy YOU a Super Bowl ticket if the Texans MAKE the Super Bowl. If they dont you cut me a check for $1000.00. I'm putting my $$$$ where my mouth is. (You're getting the better of the deal $$$$ wise and the Texans should make the playoffs, so all you need is Matt to step up in big games.) Looking forward to seeing your reply soon.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Dave.jpg

Please.
No wagering.

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 07:08 PM
Again, this is a put my money where my mouth is bet. You suggested to put your money where your mouth is.... You've got to give me better odds to meet that criteria.

What odds are you looking for. The Texans should make the playoffs considering the division they play in? If so, then you're telling me they aren't going to be better than they were last yr?

Where's the faith in your boy Schaubie? LOL

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 07:44 PM
What odds are you looking for. The Texans should make the playoffs considering the division they play in? If so, then you're telling me they aren't going to be better than they were last yr?

Where's the faith in your boy Schaubie? LOL

I'm just saying, 2 of 16 teams are going to make it to the Afc Championship game that's like 8 to 1. I'm only looking for something that pays 2 to 1. If it's a you put your money where your mouth is. You win I (or he) pays $100. If the Texans are in the Afc Championship game you pay $200

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 07:48 PM
I'm just saying, 2 of 16 teams are going to make it to the Afc Championship game that's like 8 to 1. I'm only looking for something that pays 2 to 1. If it's a you put your money where your mouth is. You win I (or he) pays $100. If the Texans are in the Afc Championship game you pay $200

Lets split the difference since the Texans only have to improve 1 game over last yr for you to win. I'll give you 200 if you win for 150 I win.

BTW,I hope I lose. LOL

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 09:06 PM
Lets split the difference since the Texans only have to improve 1 game over last yr for you to win. I'll give you 200 if you win for 150 I win.

BTW,I hope I lose. LOL

13-3?

I don't like that bet. I'm thinking we'll be the third/fourth seed, hence my sig

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 09:14 PM
13-3?

I don't like that bet. I'm thinking we'll be the third/fourth seed, hence my sig

So you dont think a Schaub led team is going to make it to the AFC championship game?

Never said anything about 13-3.

thunderkyss
09-28-2013, 09:22 PM
So you dont think a Schaub led team is going to make it to the AFC championship game?

Never said anything about 13-3.

I was a little confused about what you meant by one game better.

AFC Championship game... yeah, I'll take that bet.... Schaub or no Schaub.

dalemurphy
09-28-2013, 09:23 PM
So you dont think a Schaub led team is going to make it to the AFC championship game?

Never said anything about 13-3.

Here's some easy money for you guys that know Schaub and Kubiak can't win a suberbowl:

I'll take the Texans at 10 to 1 to win the Superbowl. Any takers? Easy money for those so adamant that Schaub doesn't have what it takes... To make it even better, if Schaub goes down for the year with an injury, we can void the bet- since clearly, Yates or Keenum would tip the scales towards my favor.

Anyone?

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 09:44 PM
Here's some easy money for you guys that know Schaub and Kubiak can't win a suberbowl:

I'll take the Texans at 10 to 1 to win the Superbowl. Any takers? Easy money for those so adamant that Schaub doesn't have what it takes... To make it even better, if Schaub goes down for the year with an injury, we can void the bet- since clearly, Yates or Keenum would tip the scales towards my favor.

Anyone?

Put me down for $50.

This is the last bet I'm taking.

I will gladly hand out the $$$$ if I'm wrong.

Go Texans

steelbtexan
09-28-2013, 09:46 PM
I was a little confused about what you meant by one game better.

AFC Championship game... yeah, I'll take that bet.... Schaub or no Schaub.

Schaub has to start the playoff game before the AFC championship game, or the bets a push.

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 10:21 PM
Here's some easy money for you guys that know Schaub and Kubiak can't win a suberbowl:

I'll take the Texans at 10 to 1 to win the Superbowl. Any takers? Easy money for those so adamant that Schaub doesn't have what it takes... To make it even better, if Schaub goes down for the year with an injury, we can void the bet- since clearly, Yates or Keenum would tip the scales towards my favor.

Anyone?

$100 on 10 to 1 odd, I'll take it.

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 10:40 PM
Not sure where you got your numbers. ESPN has:

23 behind LOS
63 1-10
35 11-20
7 20+

So 67% 10 or less yards in the air (that may be some of the number difference but this is more indicative of the QB play). But is that ouch?

Flacco 66.4%
Rodgers 70.5%
Manning 67%
non-Peyton 61.4%
Brady 70%
Big Ben 56%
Ryan 72%
Dalton 71%

Would appear not to be. The only two QBs with significantly lower percentages have a combined record this season of 0-6.

PFF stats, which if you include QBR rating from ESPN, it gets even worse. Then you look at his average yard per pass and it shows we just aren't simply getting the ball down the field.

Part of it Andre doesn't have the speed anymore to take the top off the coverage, and is not more of a possession receiver. We really didn't get a speed guy in the draft and I do like DeAndre but he's still not a burner that creates space between the deep zones and the LB's for Schaub to exploit which is his favorite target area.

My personal view is that we have seen the best of Matt, and he's going downhill, if another game or two like the previous two you have to pull him. We have Superbowl talent all around him, we just can't seem to get it done.

silvrhand
09-28-2013, 10:44 PM
To make things worse, he's far worse under pressure or when getting blitzed, and if any DC starts to see this trend more and more this year you can pretty much dial up the blitz all the time.

Passing under pressure
Pressure Drop-backs Runs Att. Com. Com. % Yds Yds / Att. TD INT Sk NFL QB Rating Pff.com Rating
No pressure 75 0 75 57 76.0 469 6.3 5 2 0 102.6 5.1
Plays under pressure 60 0 53 28 52.8 369 7.0 1 2 7 65.7 -1.7
When not blitzed 78 0 75 55 73.3 466 6.2 3 1 3 96.9 5.0
When blitzed 57 0 53 30 56.6 372 7.0 3 3 4 73.8 -1.6
All Plays 135 0 128 85 66.4 838 6.5 6 4 7 87.3 3.4

beerlover
09-28-2013, 10:46 PM
PFF stats, which if you include QBR rating from ESPN, it gets even worse. Then you look at his average yard per pass and it shows we just aren't simply getting the ball down the field.

Part of it Andre doesn't have the speed anymore to take the top off the coverage, and is not more of a possession receiver. We really didn't get a speed guy in the draft and I do like DeAndre but he's still not a burner that creates space between the deep zones and the LB's for Schaub to exploit which is his favorite target area.

My personal view is that we have seen the best of Matt, and he's going downhill, if another game or two like the previous two you have to pull him. We have Superbowl talent all around him, we just can't seem to get it done.

Classic know when to hold know when to fold epilogue.

Personally, I'm tired of his folding.

DocBar
09-29-2013, 01:10 AM
PFF stats, which if you include QBR rating from ESPN, it gets even worse. Then you look at his average yard per pass and it shows we just aren't simply getting the ball down the field.

Part of it Andre doesn't have the speed anymore to take the top off the coverage, and is not more of a possession receiver. We really didn't get a speed guy in the draft and I do like DeAndre but he's still not a burner that creates space between the deep zones and the LB's for Schaub to exploit which is his favorite target area.

My personal view is that we have seen the best of Matt, and he's going downhill, if another game or two like the previous two you have to pull him. We have Superbowl talent all around him, we just can't seem to get it done. We may well have seen the ceiling for Schaub, but the WCOis tailor made for guys like AJ and Dhop. Rice matched up better with AJ than just about any other receiver in the league. Speed is good but running a 3.8 means jack **** if you aren't carrying the rock.

silvrhand
09-29-2013, 01:27 AM
We may well have seen the ceiling for Schaub, but the WCOis tailor made for guys like AJ and Dhop. Rice matched up better with AJ than just about any other receiver in the league. Speed is good but running a 3.8 means jack **** if you aren't carrying the rock.

Speed absolutely matters when stretching the zone defense, otherwise they just sit on top of the first 20 yards and you have no open receivers.

thunderkyss
09-29-2013, 09:17 AM
Speed absolutely matters when stretching the zone defense, otherwise they just sit on top of the first 20 yards and you have no open receivers.

I agree with this, but we've never been a vertical, seven step drop offense. Jacoby took the top off defenses for a while here & he's never been as fast as Andre, or DeAndre, or Posey, or Martin. Kubiak can get these guys wide open & they'll get major YAC, safeties will have to play deeper to stay in front of them.

But Schaub does have to throw the ball.

I also don't think Schaub is going to get benched if he throws another interception. Most of what's not going right, is not Schaub. Sure he's not making things happen like a Kaepernick (2-2 with two poor offensive performances) but he's "playing well" within the system.

hradhak
09-29-2013, 09:35 AM
But Schaub does have to throw the ball.

I also don't think Schaub is going to get benched if he throws another interception. Most of what's not going right, is not Schaub. Sure he's not making things happen like a Kaepernick (2-2 with two poor offensive performances) but he's "playing well" within the system.

He's not going to get benched unless he's hurt. But I think there comes a point when something needs to change. Change the playcalling, change the run-pass mix, etc. What frustrates me so much about this team is that we don't really seem to gameplan differently against teams.

I was really excited last year against the Broncos when we identified a weakness in their secondary and exploited it several times. We need to be playing more aggressively if we want to beat teams like the Hawks and bring several new plays when we go up against the elite teams.

CloakNNNdagger
09-29-2013, 10:24 AM
I agree with this, but we've never been a vertical, seven step drop offense. Jacoby took the top off defenses for a while here & he's never been as fast as Andre, or DeAndre, or Posey, or Martin. Kubiak can get these guys wide open & they'll get major YAC, safeties will have to play deeper to stay in front of them.

But Schaub does have to throw the ball.

I also don't think Schaub is going to get benched if he throws another interception. Most of what's not going right, is not Schaub. Sure he's not making things happen like a Kaepernick (2-2 with two poor offensive performances) but he's "playing well" within the system.

You can't expect YAC when your QB only seems to throw jump-up balls, behind his receivers, high passes, come back routes, almost hit-the-ground passes and into multiple coverage (especially when there are obvious alternatives present).

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 10:57 AM
Was going to start a new thread , but it all comes back to Schaub anyhow ... so here's my thoughts:


This entire offense is designed to keep the QB clean , from a strong running game to the play action stuff where they take their shots .... Masking the QB's weaknesses while taking advantage of what he has historically done well.

Its obvious to me that Gary understands what he has at the QB position .....

Over the last 8-10 games including the last few & playoffs last season , the QB hasn't been able to execute the game plan and rather than being a positive or net zero , that QB has hurt the teams chances.

I noticed against the Tinbreds that Schaub's play action fakes weren't up to the standards we are accustomed to ... I really think this is telling of a greater issue. It could be the accumulation of injuries to the shoulder & feet or it could be lacking trust in the OL having to turn his back to the defense.

When I look at the throws Schaub is making (or not) , its easy to see he isn't near as accurate with his location as he was in the past ... I think that is pointing to those injuries being a bigger deal than we are led to believe.


Is Schaub damaged goods or is the OL the problem ?! .... He should be performing to a higher standard in an offense designed around him being kept clean.

DocBar
09-29-2013, 11:15 AM
He's not going to get benched unless he's hurt. But I think there comes a point when something needs to change. Change the playcalling, change the run-pass mix, etc. What frustrates me so much about this team is that we don't really seem to gameplan differently against teams.

I was really excited last year against the Broncos when we identified a weakness in their secondary and exploited it several times. We need to be playing more aggressively if we want to beat teams like the Hawks and bring several new plays when we go up against the elite teams. Where's Tonya Harding and her boyfriend when we need them??:kitten:

Seriously though, I'm frustrated with the game planning a lot of times, too. Kubiak get's hard headed and wants to impose his will and run the ball regardless of the circumstances.

The success of a lot of his plays rely on the defense not know if it's a pass or a run because they start out the same. That can work great against a very aggressive or undisciplined defense, but not so much against disciplined ones that don't bite on play action fakes. Kubiak seems to be unwilling or unable to change it up on a regular basis.