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handswarmer
01-24-2013, 02:25 PM
Stats = losers.... Just sayin'!!!

Grown people should NEVER type this

handswarmer
01-24-2013, 02:31 PM
That said, it's apples to oranges. Flacco took over an already pretty good team, defensively and otherwise. Schaub took over shyte...

My point is this.... While Flacco doesn't suck as much as he is percieved to, he's nothing special either.

You could argue that til the cows come home- it doesn't cchange the fact that over his first 5 yrs, Flacco has accomplished something that may never be duplicated: Most wins by a QB, and most road playoff wins by a qb---EVER.

Sure he benefitted from a solid run game and defense his first few years; so did Sanchez. So did Alex Smith last year. So did Cutler. Romo. Cassel in '10.

But what Flacco has done over the last 2 years is pretty remarkable- his 12 Tds and 0 INT (with just 1 fumble) this year and flat out beating Luck, Manning and Brady show that Joe has arrived. and that he is better than Schaub.

handswarmer
01-24-2013, 02:33 PM
Don't back track your self serving comments. You are qualifying your statement that Shaub is better than Flacco by simply stating he made the pro-bowl because you responded to my analysis that Flacco is better and Schaub is a bus driver type QB.

By the way, pro-bowl voting is largely fan voting, starts MID SEASON and ends in November, and it is well documented that players and coaches don't really care because they have to vote for players on the opposite side of the ball only.

But back to the main point. Flacco tore through these last 3 playoff games to a tune of 853 yards, 8 TDs, 0 INTs, 115 QB rating.....he carried his team, making huge plays down field. Something Schaub can't do.

If pro bowl is the measurement of a QB, then why is Vince Young out of work? Why is Matt Cassel ready to be out of work?

Pro Bowl is a joke...

Jules Winnfield
01-24-2013, 04:27 PM
If pro bowl is the measurement of a QB, then why is Vince Young out of work? Why is Matt Cassel ready to be out of work?

Pro Bowl is a joke...

because matt schaub is a pro bowl legend and its the rallying point for every delusional and sad matt schaub supporter.

"but he threw for 4700 yards and is a pro bowl mvp!!!!"

handswarmer
01-24-2013, 04:35 PM
because matt schaub is a pro bowl legend and its the rallying point for every delusional and sad matt schaub supporter.

"but he threw for 4700 yards and is a pro bowl mvp!!!!"

Same in KC- "matt Cassel made the Pro Bowl- weehaw"


Where he promptly threw 2 interceptions.....

Texcore
01-24-2013, 07:43 PM
Since Tom Brady will be sitting at home watching Flacco in the Super Bowl, does that mean that Brady's better days are behind him? That he was a better QB at one time, but now he can't "carry his team"

Is Flacco better than Big Ben? If you had to choose one or the other to start a new team, are you telling me you would pick Flacco?

Is Flacco better than Rogers? Same thing, you're going to start your team, have to choose Flacco or Rogers... who you taking?

Flacco getting to the Super Bowl does not prove anything about his ability as a QB. It proves he is on the better team. It proves that his team was able to stop the Patriots from scoring enough points to win the game...... that's it.

Flacco is not better than Romo, not better than Bradford or Stafford, not better than Rogers, Brees, Brady.... he's on a better team.

Flacco may very well be better than Schaub, but being in the Super Bowl is no more proof of that than it is proof that Jacoby is a better receiver than Andre Johnson.

Ray Rice is not better than Arian.

Lol. Foolish Schaub apologists, resorting to making things up because you can't defend Schaub...

I challenge you to find a post where I said Flacco was better than Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, The Mannings, Bradford, Stafford or the like. I also challenge you to quote where I said making it to the super bowl automatically qualifies you as the best in the game at your position(that is so f'n stupid). My guess is that you'll fail at the task I've assigned to you because I never said that.

All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.

But perhaps you are a novice fan and can't see that. If that's the case, I cannot help you with your ignorance.

Texcore
01-24-2013, 07:46 PM
This is my last time I'm responding to you, because you are clearly misinterpreting my post. I did NOT state Schaub is better than Flacco. I'm not trying to make that argument. You said that it would be hard to find football people outside of Kubiak that think Schaub is better than Flacco. I simply pointed out that the probowl voting contradicts that statement.



Of course its the end, because you have no argument to defend Schaub. All you are trying to do is bash a QB(Flacco) simply because Schaub made the pro-bow over him as an alternate???? Meanwhile, Flacco tore up the playoffs and has his team playing in the Super Bowl.

Pro bowl is a joke and it doesn't automatically qualify who football guys(coaches, owners, GMs) think are better players. That is absolutely asinine to say. I still fervently maintain that 31 of 32 teams would choose Flacco over Schaub if they had to choose between either. Hell, even Kubiak, Smith and McNair probably would too, so make it 32 out of 32 teams. And the proof is in the production and the winning.

Logical folks know the truth, Schaub-fanboys only ignore it.

thunderkyss
01-24-2013, 07:55 PM
All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.


I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.

thunderkyss
01-24-2013, 08:00 PM
Of course its the end, because you have no argument to defend Schaub. All you are trying to do is bash a QB(Flacco) simply because Schaub made the pro-bow over him as an alternate???? Meanwhile, Flacco tore up the playoffs and has his team playing in the Super Bowl.

Pro bowl is a joke and it doesn't automatically qualify who football guys(coaches, owners, GMs) think are better players. That is absolutely asinine to say. I still fervently maintain that 31 of 32 teams would choose Flacco over Schaub if they had to choose between either. Hell, even Kubiak, Smith and McNair probably would too, so make it 32 out of 32 teams. And the proof is in the production and the winning.

Logical folks know the truth, Schaub-fanboys only ignore it.

Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.

handswarmer
01-24-2013, 09:09 PM
Lol. Foolish Schaub apologists, resorting to making things up because you can't defend Schaub...

I challenge you to find a post where I said Flacco was better than Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, The Mannings, Bradford, Stafford or the like. I also challenge you to quote where I said making it to the super bowl automatically qualifies you as the best in the game at your position(that is so f'n stupid). My guess is that you'll fail at the task I've assigned to you because I never said that.

All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.

But perhaps you are a novice fan and can't see that. If that's the case, I cannot help you with your ignorance.
Excellent post- I would only disagree with your assessment that Romo, Stafford and Bradford are better. They haven't accomplished what Joe has.

handswarmer
01-24-2013, 09:16 PM
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.

"Schaub’s inclusion, meanwhile, is an interesting one. The Texans’ quarterback currently has fewer passing yards than Andrew Luck or Joe Flacco and fewer TD passes than Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers and even Ben Roethlisberger."- http://nfl.si.com/2012/12/26/pro-bowl-rosters-once-again-open-the-door-for-debate/

dream_team
01-25-2013, 12:08 AM
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.

:clap:

I think by contradicting (or in my case, proving wrong) any of Texcore's comments instantly makes you a "Schaub apologist".

Surreal McCoy
01-25-2013, 03:48 AM
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.

Well that's one way to end a debate. Although, in hindsight it wasn't much of a debate, really.

:wadepalm:

PS - MSR

Texcore
01-26-2013, 11:19 AM
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.

You are making assumptions. I'm only comparing TWO Quarterbacks, Flacco and Schaub. We are not having a generalized discussion about all QBs, because that is an entirely different discussion and my thoughts on ranking all QBs are very different. My statements are very specific to Flacco and Schaub.You can't take what I'm saying and generalize it to the rest of the QBs because I've disqualified that by only taking about comparisons.

I didn't just cite his playoff record (which is highly respectable!) as the sole reason, but its easily one of many. How many QBs in their first 5 years in the league can say they've won 8 playoff games already? In fact 5 years into his career he already has more post season playoff wins than any QB in history. Does that make him the best QB in history? God no, but its a testament to his ability this far in his young career.

Not taking a QB's playoff production into account, when he has had a good team around him like the Ravens have, would be asinine. Had Flacco amassed a 1-11 record rather than his 8-4 record, then my thoughts on him would be very different. Schaub had a really great Texan team around him, but he's been embarrassingly horrible in big prime time games against the big boys. Meanwhile, its seems the bigger the game for Flacco, the better he is. His playoff run this year (around 850 yards, 8TDs, 0INTs, wins against Luck, Manning and Brady). I mean seriously, give the guy respect.

Texcore
01-26-2013, 11:36 AM
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.

So you obviously have a very high regard for the Pro-bowl process huh? Can I make that assumption...you know since you like to make assumptions yourself? Lets just go ahead and say you do. That you believe the pro-bowl is the end all for how coaches and GMs view a players worth because that is what you are seemingly defending.

Yet how many GMs/coaches would take Jeff Saturday, voted into the pro-bowl this year(largely by fair weather fans), when he got benched for his horrible play by his own coach in November. But I guess using your logic, that makes him better than Nick Mangold, who didn't make the pro-bowl...yeah 32 teams would rather have Saturday over Mangold...you know, because of the pro-bowl and all...

Another example, Gore made the pro-bowl for the NFC, while Alfred Morris didn't, who has far better stats than Gore. But yeah, if given a choice, coaches/GMs will take Gore, who is on the wrong side of 30 and clearly losing a step, over a young stud Alfred Morris.

Furthermore,A quick google search of "undeserving pro-bowler" in 2013 will yield many lists that include Schaub. Pro-bowl snub articles are also to found everywhere....So again, the pro-bowl can be a real joke. In the NFC alone, there are 6, count'em 6 Pro-bowl QBs that get the "honor", lol...

Its all about context my friend...and there is no way a competent GM/Coach will choose Schaub over Flacco, no way in hell.

thunderkyss
01-26-2013, 12:28 PM
You are making assumptions. I'm only comparing TWO Quarterbacks, Flacco and Schaub. We are not having a generalized discussion about all QBs, because that is an entirely different discussion and my thoughts on ranking all QBs are very different. My statements are very specific to Flacco and Schaub.You can't take what I'm saying and generalize it to the rest of the QBs because I've disqualified that by only taking about comparisons.


If your logic only applies to Schaub & Flacco, it is flawed. It doesn't hold up in comparison to the other QBs in the league, it is flawed.

So you obviously have a very high regard for the Pro-bowl process huh? Can I make that assumption...you know since you like to make assumptions yourself? Lets just go ahead and say you do. That you believe the pro-bowl is the end all for how coaches and GMs view a players worth because that is what you are seemingly defending.

Furthermore,A quick google search of "undeserving pro-bowler" in 2013 will yield many lists that include Schaub. Pro-bowl snub articles are also to found everywhere....So again, the pro-bowl can be a real joke. In the NFC alone, there are 6, count'em 6 Pro-bowl QBs that get the "honor", lol...


Many lists & articles written by "football people"?

Are these GMs & Coaches? Scouts maybe? Or fans?



Its all about context my friend...and there is no way a competent GM/Coach will choose Schaub over Flacco, no way in hell.

Context.

Coaches vote for the probowl. As far as I can tell, the coaches believe Matt Schaub is the better QB. Truthfully it's hard to tell, unless you get a break down of the coaches vote, the players vote, & the fan vote. But since Matt Schaub is a virtual unknown (we don't get no respect in Houston) & they got the Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thing right, it isn't too far of a stretch to believe that more coaches believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Joe Flacco.

Again, I do not agree. I'd trade Schaub for Flacco in a heartbeat. I'd ever throw in a first day draft pick & a probowl center to sweeten the deal.

But I will not argue that more coaches will take Flacco when the ProBowl is evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't mean I think probowl voting is the end all be all of player evaluation.

panamamyers
01-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Sorry, not going to read this whole thread through, but is there really a Flacco/Schaub argument going on in one of the pages in here?
We may as well be asking if Reggie Wayne is better than Kevin Walter.
Flacco is light years ahead of Schaub.

handswarmer
01-26-2013, 03:39 PM
If your logic only applies to Schaub & Flacco, it is flawed. It doesn't hold up in comparison to the other QBs in the league, it is flawed.



Many lists & articles written by "football people"?

Are these GMs & Coaches? Scouts maybe? Or fans?




Context.

Coaches vote for the probowl. As far as I can tell, the coaches believe Matt Schaub is the better QB. Truthfully it's hard to tell, unless you get a break down of the coaches vote, the players vote, & the fan vote. But since Matt Schaub is a virtual unknown (we don't get no respect in Houston) & they got the Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thing right, it isn't too far of a stretch to believe that more coaches believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Joe Flacco.

Again, I do not agree. I'd trade Schaub for Flacco in a heartbeat. I'd ever throw in a first day draft pick & a probowl center to sweeten the deal.

But I will not argue that more coaches will take Flacco when the ProBowl is evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't mean I think probowl voting is the end all be all of player evaluation.

To even consider the Pro Bowl as a measure to ascertain who is a better player lessens credibility.

thunderkyss
01-27-2013, 01:33 AM
To even consider the Pro Bowl as a measure to ascertain who is a better player lessens credibility.

Can we use the pro bowl to ascertain that "football people" would choose one person over another?

That's the only argument using the probowl as evidence.

Coaches & players vote for the pro bowl. Are they voting based on popularity?

nut
01-27-2013, 10:35 PM
Last.

ubecool454
01-27-2013, 10:57 PM
Last.

Haha you said it lol.

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 09:41 AM
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.

Flacco has the best Playoff record fo any active QB- he's made history.

But the Pro Bowl is a measurement of what is a good QB?

Like Schaub throwing a pick in the Pro Bowl somehow makes him better than the guy getting ready to play in a Super Bowl?

WTF am I missing here?

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 09:48 AM
Can we use the pro bowl to ascertain that "football people" would choose one person over another?

That's the only argument using the probowl as evidence.

Coaches & players vote for the pro bowl. Are they voting based on popularity?

Fans vote. Mst players and coaches say they don't have enough time to really see who is playing the best because they are busy trying to win.

Its a joke- like Alex Rodriguez was the best 3rd baseman in the AL in 2011? Gimme a break.

deucetx
01-28-2013, 10:08 AM
Fans vote. Mst players and coaches say they don't have enough time to really see who is playing the best because they are busy trying to win.

Its a joke- like Alex Rodriguez was the best 3rd baseman in the AL in 2011? Gimme a break.

They still vote. What is said is they don't get to see all the players so most of the votes from players ends up becoming a game of politics. Sometimes they will vote for players that are completely unknown to help their teammates out or they won't vote for players they dislike (i.e. Richard Sherman). Not to mention they can't vote for teammates and have to vote for opposite side of the ball only. So no not just fans. If you think Schaub is a fan favorite, well, that is a stretch. Players in our city don't often get a ton of recognition nor media attention for that to be the case. It was refreshing seeing Watt get attention this year as Cush deserved it last year but got nothing.

In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 11:03 AM
In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.

True... I don't know how many times I gotta say it.

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 11:20 AM
They still vote. What is said is they don't get to see all the players so most of the votes from players ends up becoming a game of politics. Sometimes they will vote for players that are completely unknown to help their teammates out or they won't vote for players they dislike (i.e. Richard Sherman). Not to mention they can't vote for teammates and have to vote for opposite side of the ball only. So no not just fans. If you think Schaub is a fan favorite, well, that is a stretch. Players in our city don't often get a ton of recognition nor media attention for that to be the case. It was refreshing seeing Watt get attention this year as Cush deserved it last year but got nothing.

In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.

I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...

Big Lou
01-28-2013, 12:00 PM
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...

Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.

bOODRO87
01-28-2013, 12:31 PM
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.

Flacco left Schaub in the dust after this year. Schaub couldn't win HFA with two games and played poorly in the post season. Flacco had 8 TDs and zero INT this post season. His team depended on him to make clutch throws and he delivered. Something us Texan fans can only dream of Schaub doing in the play offs.

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 12:56 PM
Flacco left Schaub in the dust after this year. Schaub couldn't win HFA with two games and played poorly in the post season. Flacco had 8 TDs and zero INT this post season. His team depended on him to make clutch throws and he delivered. Something us Texan fans can only dream of Schaub doing in the play offs.

Flacco wasn't even in a position to win HFA throughout the play-offs.

Up until week 12, I would bet the overwhelming opinion was that Schaub was better. That's most likely why he is in the pro bowl & Flacco isn't.

Flacco, in my mind, didn't pull ahead, until that Denver game in the divisional round of the play-offs. & he backed it up with his play in the AFC Championship game.

Until those two games, most "football people" wouldn't even touch the debate because it wasn't worth discussing. Who was the better of two bad QBs? Who really cares?

bOODRO87
01-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Flacco wasn't even in a position to win HFA throughout the play-offs.

Up until week 12, I would bet the overwhelming opinion was that Schaub was better. That's most likely why he is in the pro bowl & Flacco isn't.

Flacco, in my mind, didn't pull ahead, until that Denver game in the divisional round of the play-offs. & he backed it up with his play in the AFC Championship game.

Until those two games, most "football people" wouldn't even touch the debate because it wasn't worth discussing. Who was the better of two bad QBs? Who really cares?

Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.

Premier
01-28-2013, 01:51 PM
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.

this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison

thunderkyss
01-28-2013, 02:16 PM
...flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie..


Does Schaub get any credit for the "had so-&-so not dropped..... " gimmies?

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 03:36 PM
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.

Wha is an elite QB?

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.

This^

handswarmer
01-28-2013, 03:39 PM
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison

And THIS^

GP
01-28-2013, 03:43 PM
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison

:ohsnap:

deucetx
01-28-2013, 04:11 PM
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...

Apparently you're right because folks are still going which I just don't get.

I can admit that I was someone who felt Schaub was a top ten quarterback. But how can one be top ten and not capable of making all the throws? How can one be top ten and disappear in prime time situations? How can one be top ten and not even be capable of putting the ball in the endzone consistently?

Flacco isn't perfect and maybe not 'elite' though I admit that term is overly abused. But his main issues go with the mental approach when under pressure. Umm...Schaub has that too. The difference is these playoffs I saw Flacco hurl a ball downfield with a defender hanging on him. I saw Schaub escape and throw it out of bounds. Big difference. One is looking to still make a play and the other is not. Flacco's vision stays wide encompassing the field while Schaubs seems to narrow. If he isn't throwing it away he is checking it down far short of the first down.

Flacco obviously can make all the throws. Schaub can not and even some that he toss out there he puts too much air under the ball giving the defense a chance to react. So you have more positives in the way of Flacco than Schaub especially in the playoffs. Not even sure where the arguement can stand. Doesn't mean Schaub is a bad quarterback but sure as heck isn't great either. Flacco doesn't have to be elite to be better than Schaub but to me he is at least in that next tier behind the top tier guys and he's young and climbing. Schaub? Well...what we see MAY be what we get.

thunderkyss
02-04-2013, 06:52 PM
I do.

I see us winning with Foster having a big day, the D having a big day, and Matt not turning the ball over.

Way late...... but I think you're right. Everything that needed to happen didn't.


Everything.

Jules Winnfield
02-04-2013, 08:24 PM
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.


great post.

matt sucks physically, one would think he would make for it in the intangible, leadership, poise, decision making area.

The problem is, matt also sucks at those areas.

Yet houston fans and the front office find it so hard to move on from him. Its as if its some impossibility to find someone better than a guy who sucks physically and mentally.

handswarmer
02-07-2013, 10:06 AM
great post.

matt sucks physically, one would think he would make for it in the intangible, leadership, poise, decision making area.

The problem is, matt also sucks at those areas.

Yet houston fans and the front office find it so hard to move on from him. Its as if its some impossibility to find someone better than a guy who sucks physically and mentally.

Who is a Free Agent or draft pick that is better than Schaub right now for the 2013 season? Somone who could put them ina position to win in 2013 in the Playoffs?

Vance87
02-07-2013, 04:01 PM
Who is a Free Agent or draft pick that is better than Schaub right now for the 2013 season? Somone who could put them ina position to win in 2013 in the Playoffs?

Don't even bother man...

Vance87
02-07-2013, 06:17 PM
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.

But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?

I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.

I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.

Yeah dude, we just gave Schaub a big contract, and now we're gonna sign Alex Smith for possibly more.

Glimpse reality much?

Vance87
02-08-2013, 12:42 AM
Which one gets you to the SB?

McNair needs to step up and insist on excellence.

Remind me how many Super Bowls Alex Smith has gotten to?

He couldn't get to one with a better D and a running game just as good as ours in 2011, what makes you think he can do it with us?

And with what money would McNair sign him?

Your visions are nothing but dreary fantasy.

dream_team
02-08-2013, 01:10 AM
I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.

You want to sign the guy that was just benched on his own team because they didn't believe he could get them to the Super Bowl? What am I missing here?

htownfan32
02-08-2013, 01:19 AM
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.

But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?

I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.

I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.

I like where you're going with Flynn. I think Smith might be a step to the side and a half step up more than anything else. I think we should look at a 3rd and a 5th pick for Kirk Cousins from the Skins. Mobile, looked great in action, and Shanny's system in DC is like Kubes' system down here.

HOU-TEX
02-08-2013, 10:10 AM
Never thought there'd be a day when knee-jerks would be clammoring for Alex Smith. lol

Schaub ain't much and, unfortunately, he'll be here at least another 2 years. Anyone that mentions trading, cutting or benching him are my definition of a knee-jerker. One that refuses to be realistic. Or they're just plain dumb.

thunderkyss
02-08-2013, 11:26 AM
Never thought there'd be a day when knee-jerks would be clammoring for Alex Smith. lol

Schaub ain't much and, unfortunately, he'll be here at least another 2 years. Anyone that mentions trading, cutting or benching him are my definition of a knee-jerker. One that refuses to be realistic. Or they're just plain dumb.

^^^This

Matt's been more productive than those big armed, mobile QBs. His biggest problem has been his performance in "big" games. The same issue Matt Ryan has been struggling with until now, He didn't win in 2008, 2010, or 2011.

Schaub isn't the QB I want, but I'm not convinced he can't take us to & win the Super Bowl. I also believe our chances are better with Schaub than any reasonable replacement.

thunderkyss
02-08-2013, 03:32 PM
This (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/flaccos-success-shows-schaub-texans-can-do-it-too/#more-34227) was in the Chronicle four days ago. I wonder why it wasn't posted here. Maybe because it's the Chronicle??



Flacco is an inch taller than Schaub – 6-6 to 6-5 — but three pounds lighter – 232 to 235. He has been more durable in his career, but Schaub showed this season he could get up from a hit, too. He significantly outplayed Flacco in their head-to-head meeting and, while Schaub stumbled badly in December, so did Flacco.

But Flacco is something of a Mr. January, winning nine games in the postseason. That’s eight more than Schaub has won despite being in the league four seasons longer. It would indicate Flacco has the tougher mental makeup, but it also means he has been on much better teams in Baltimore than Schaub in Houston. The Ravens have made the playoffs all five seasons Flacco has been in the league. The Texans have advanced twice.

Here's (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/flacco-over-schaub-but-with-an-asterisk/#more-34240) another one from the 4th as well.

When it looked as if they might again fall short, they switched offensive coordinators, reemphasizing the running game, taking pressure off Flacco to win games with his arm.

They later realigned the offensive line, again taking pressure off Flacco by giving him more protection.

They also had him surrounded with playmakers such as Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, David Pitta and Ray Rice. They even used their fullbacks in the running and passing game.

Like me he remembers the change in OC was to take the ball out of Flacco's hand & put it in Ray Rice's hands, that was the idea. Didn't work out that way, but at the time, that's what the talking heads were saying & the general consensus.

handswarmer
02-08-2013, 03:48 PM
This (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/flaccos-success-shows-schaub-texans-can-do-it-too/#more-34227) was in the Chronicle four days ago. I wonder why it wasn't posted here. Maybe because it's the Chronicle??



Here's (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/02/flacco-over-schaub-but-with-an-asterisk/#more-34240) another one from the 4th as well.



Like me he remembers the change in OC was to take the ball out of Flacco's hand & put it in Ray Rice's hands, that was the idea. Didn't work out that way, but at the time, that's what the talking heads were saying & the general consensus.

Who is a better RB? Rice or Foster

Who is a beter WR? Smith or AJ?

Who is a better TE? Pitta/Dickson or Graham/Daniels?

Who had a better defense? Baltimore or Houston?

Re-emphasizing the running game was not abandoning it. Cadwells play calling was exceptional compared to Cameron's; it was the same offense; they just ran the same plays in adifferent sequence, they never stopped attacking whereas Cam would pull the foot off the gas when they had a lead...

handswarmer
02-08-2013, 04:02 PM
BTW, Donovan McNabb just put Schaub at #10 on his list of QB's.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000137303/Where-does-Flacco-land-on-Top-10-QB-list

thunderkyss
02-08-2013, 04:33 PM
Who is a better RB? Rice or Foster

Who is a beter WR? Smith or AJ?

Who is a better TE? Pitta/Dickson or Graham/Daniels?

Who had a better defense? Baltimore or Houston?

Re-emphasizing the running game was not abandoning it. Cadwells play calling was exceptional compared to Cameron's; it was the same offense; they just ran the same plays in adifferent sequence, they never stopped attacking whereas Cam would pull the foot off the gas when they had a lead...

Try not imagining I said something I didn't.

dream_team
02-09-2013, 01:33 AM
He was benched for a better option ... we don't have one.

Alex makes less mistakes than Matt so that is why I see it as an upgrade.

I live in San Jose, so I have to sit through a lot of 49ers news on TV and friends. Smith gets the same flak around here that Schaub does from Texans fans. "He's a conservative game-manager with a weak arm and won't win the 49ers a SB."

Re-watch Smith during the Nolan & Singletary days. You'll see a guy make constant mistakes. Harbaugh did a good job of going ultra conservative with him so he wouldn't commit to many mistakes.

handswarmer
02-09-2013, 10:35 AM
Try not imagining I said something I didn't.

The implication from the article and from your post is that Flacco was surrounded with better talent than Schaub and thats why he succeeded. I merely asked who was better, position by position.

thunderkyss
02-09-2013, 11:58 AM
The implication from the article and from your post is that Flacco was surrounded with better talent than Schaub and thats why he succeeded. I merely asked who was better, position by position.

Uh.... the articles I read were more about the similarities between Schaub & Flacco. Like I've been saying throughout this thread, they were considered "about the same" until January of this year.

If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't. He's only 3 years older. & though his arm isn't as strong & he is not as mobile, Schaub has made up for it in other ways & has been a "better" QB than Flacco over the last two years in stats & wins. The only thing Flacco has over Schaub at this point, is wins in big games.

As far as talent goes...... this is the NFL. We're all pretty talented. The difference is who "steps up" in those big games. Schaub didn't, Flacco did. Andre didn't, Boldin did. KDub didn't, Torrey Smith did. Our OL didn't, the Ravens did. James Casey didn't, Vonta Leech did.

Heck, if Danieal Manning didn't run out of gas on that opening return, that game would have been totally different.

handswarmer
02-09-2013, 01:19 PM
Uh.... the articles I read were more about the similarities between Schaub & Flacco. Like I've been saying throughout this thread, they were considered "about the same" until January of this year.

If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't. .

I don't believe it to bethe same.....Schaub had an opportunity in NE in the reg season and playoffs, yet melted

Playoffs
02-09-2013, 01:53 PM
How about actual playoff ratings from ProFootballFocus (http://www.profootballfocus.com/)...

................................Snaps ..Overall ...Pass .....Run ...Penalty NFL Rating
1 Matt Ryan ATL ..........131 .....11.9 .....12.9 .....-1.4 ......04.....105.2
2 Joe Flacco BLT ......,...286 .....11.7 .....12.4 .....-0.9 ......02.....117.2
3 Colin Kaepernick SF .,..197 .....10.3 .....7.2 ........4.2 ....-1.1 ...100.9
4 Russell Wilson SEA ......140 .....8.3 ......4.5 ........3.9 ....-0.1 ...102.4
5 Aaron Rodgers GB .......128 .....3.4 ......4.3 .......-1.2 .....0.3 .....97.6
6 Tom Brady NE ............150 .....2.2 ......2.1 .......-0.3 .....0.4 .....84.7
7 Peyton Manning DEN .....94 .....2.1 ......1.9 ........0.0 .....0.2 .....88.3
8 Andrew Luck IND ..........94 .....1.3 ......0.2 ........0.9 .....0.2 .....59.8
9 Matt Schaub HST .......159 ....-1.4 .....-1.7 ......-0.1 .....0.4 .....87.5

thunderkyss
02-09-2013, 03:06 PM
I don't believe it to bethe same.....Schaub had an opportunity in NE in the reg season and playoffs, yet melted

& I really don't care what you think.

thunderkyss
02-09-2013, 03:14 PM
How about actual playoff ratings from ProFootballFocus (http://www.profootballfocus.com/)...

There's no doubt about it, Flacco kicked a55 in the playoffs & Schaub folded. That's the difference & that's what I've been saying is the difference.

However, let's not act like Joe Flacco has always rated so high in the big games. He was the one they blamed for their previous losses, just like Schaub. (Cue Raven's fan crediting Flacco with the Raven's defensive play-off wins).

Big difference is that Flacco has been mundane in the regular season & Schaub performs as well as the best of them...... usually. This season, definitely not true, but in the past, Matt Schaub has been a great regular season QB & Flacco has been lucky to be considered middle of the pack.

Both Flacco & Schaub had something to prove in these play-offs. Flacco, whose team elevated their game, did so & Schaub, whose team did not, did not. I'm not taking anything away from Flacco. Though his team performed like a championship team, Flacco performed like a championship QB. He's part of the team. But Kaepernick performed like a championship QB as well, but when it counted, when the chips where on the table, his team failed where Flacco's team prevailed. That 4 down possession inside the 6 had nothing to do with Flacco but contributed as much as any Raven's possession to a championship victory.


If we had our pick, who here would take Flacco over Kaepernick (Raven's homer excluded).

DX-TEX
02-10-2013, 02:39 AM
If we had our pick, who here would take Flacco over Kaepernick (Raven's homer excluded).

Raises hand.

In a damn heartbeat

TejasTom
02-10-2013, 09:21 AM
... whereas Cam would pull the foot off the gas when they had a lead...

We don't know anything about coaches taking their foot off the gas;)

handswarmer
02-10-2013, 12:25 PM
& I really don't care what you think.

Its a discussion dude...don't get your Texans panties in a bunch

handswarmer
02-10-2013, 12:32 PM
There's no doubt about it, Flacco kicked a55 in the playoffs & Schaub folded. That's the difference & that's what I've been saying is the difference.

However, let's not act like Joe Flacco has always rated so high in the big games. He was the one they blamed for their previous losses, just like Schaub. (Cue Raven's fan crediting Flacco with the Raven's defensive play-off wins).

Big difference is that Flacco has been mundane in the regular season & Schaub performs as well as the best of them...... usually. This season, definitely not true, but in the past, Matt Schaub has been a great regular season QB & Flacco has been lucky to be considered middle of the pack.

Both Flacco & Schaub had something to prove in these play-offs. Flacco, whose team elevated their game, did so & Schaub, whose team did not, did not. I'm not taking anything away from Flacco. Though his team performed like a championship team, Flacco performed like a championship QB. He's part of the team. But Kaepernick performed like a championship QB as well, but when it counted, when the chips where on the table, his team failed where Flacco's team prevailed. That 4 down possession inside the 6 had nothing to do with Flacco but contributed as much as any Raven's possession to a championship victory.


If we had our pick, who here would take Flacco over Kaepernick (Raven's homer excluded).

You should go back and look at the second half when Flacco threw the ball to eat the clock. Crucial trows on third downs, moving the chains....etc.

I've never said Joe was or should be rated at the top- rating QB's is always subjective ad the ones doing the rating ver rarely define their criteria or guidelines for determining the order off the list.

I've always said that Joe was better han what his detractors would say. Even this week on NFL Total Acces, Jamie Dukes couldn't or wouldn't give Flacco his due. Neiter will Skip Bayliss. But they are immaterial.

Flacco won games this season when his defense stunk, while being hamstrung by his coordinator and when the running game was ignored.

thunderkyss
02-10-2013, 01:03 PM
Its a discussion dude...don't get your Texans panties in a bunch

It's not about my panties. It's about staying on track.

What you thought does not help, or detract from the point I was making. It was totally irrelevant.

I know there were a fringe few who believed in Flacco. There are a few that still believe in Matt. That was not the point.

handswarmer
02-10-2013, 04:08 PM
It's not about my panties. It's about staying on track.

What you thought does not help, or detract from the point I was making. It was totally irrelevant.

I know there were a fringe few who believed in Flacco. There are a few that still believe in Matt. That was not the point.

In all fairness, what you think "If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't " doesn't help your argument nor help you make your point.

thunderkyss
02-10-2013, 05:35 PM
In all fairness, what you think "If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't " doesn't help your argument nor help you make your point.

You win. You're right. Before the play-offs, Joe Flacco was considered a mediocre QB just like Schaub.

Honoring Earl 34
02-10-2013, 07:15 PM
You win. You're right. Before the play-offs, Joe Flacco was considered a mediocre QB just like Schaub.

Flacco had everything but actually getting it done . He has size , arm strength , durability , and decent mobility .

Steal Your Face
02-10-2013, 07:23 PM
If we had our pick, who here would take Flacco over Kaepernick (Raven's homer excluded).

:elmo: Right here ... right here, I would!!!

chenjy9
02-10-2013, 07:34 PM
I would take any QB that was in the playoffs save Dalton over Schaub at this point. Stupid gimpy QB who only knows to check down or throw it out when he is forced out of the pocket... It frustrates me so much seeing him do that again and again.

handswarmer
02-11-2013, 08:24 AM
You win. You're right. Before the play-offs, Joe Flacco was considered a mediocre QB just like Schaub.

No one "wins"....Last Regular season was not his best, I know that much. It was the firing of Cam Cameron and elevation of Jim Caldwell that allowed Joe to flourish in the offense.

And the intial question to start the THREAD was

"Where does Matt rank with QBs in the PLayoffs?"

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 08:54 AM
No one "wins"....Last Regular season was not his best, I know that much. It was the firing of Cam Cameron and elevation of Jim Caldwell that allowed Joe to flourish in the offense.

And the intial question to start the THREAD was

"Where does Matt rank with QBs in the PLayoffs?"

I remember last season how the talk was all about the Ravens "new" offense. But Flacco managed to temper expectations.

They flashed from time to time, but his inconsistencies brought them back to the mean.... we'll see what lasting affects Caldwell will have on your offense.

handswarmer
02-11-2013, 09:30 AM
I remember last season how the talk was all about the Ravens "new" offense. But Flacco managed to temper expectations.

They flashed from time to time, but his inconsistencies brought them back to the mean.... we'll see what lasting affects Caldwell will have on your offense.

This is from the beginning of this past season...

"Under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron, the Ravens' offense was old-school in all the worst ways from a passing game perspective. Rooted in the Sid Gillman/Don Coryell/Norv Turner concepts of the deep-strike pass, Cameron's formation concepts did not add the diversity required in the current NFL."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/offensive-concepts-drive-joe-flacco-baltimore-ravens-next-112050672--nfl.html

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 10:12 AM
This is from the beginning of this past season...

"Under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron, the Ravens' offense was old-school in all the worst ways from a passing game perspective.

Doesn't change the fact that we've heard how good the Ravens offense is going to be before. We'll see if it sticks this time.

handswarmer
02-11-2013, 11:58 AM
Doesn't change the fact that we've heard how good the Ravens offense is going to be before. We'll see if it sticks this time.

Fair enough- I had my doubts before the season myself- I long beieved that Cam was 'holding' back Joe. A quote from Greg Cosell of NFL Films cemented i fo me= "Its like their offense is stuck in the 60's"....

Caldwell is the key

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 07:54 PM
Exactly, Matt cant carry Flaccos jock ...

Even without Flacco's physical gifts, Matt has outperformed Flacco, in the regular season, since 2007.

handswarmer
02-11-2013, 09:13 PM
Even without Flacco's physical gifts, Matt has outperformed Flacco, in the regular season, since 2007.

But Flacco has more wins, Flacco wins more in the big games.

You can have him, I'll take Joe

And since 2008, the year they were drafted

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Not in the playoffs ... because he never made it ... his PP hurt.

Stats? Dismissed.

Matt's stats are based on receivers having to adjust to overthrown and under-thrown and off target balls.

Matt hasn't outperformed Toro ...

Somebody's pp hurt, of that I have no doubt. You can dismiss the stats, but it doesn't change the fact that Matt has out performed Flacco in the regular season, on a gimp foot no less.

You can argue that Matt chokes in the big game & I really can't argue. But just because he didn't win his first divisional play off game ever, doesn't mean that he can't, or that he won't win the next one.

And I love the underthrown ball & the receiver having to adjust argument, but when we're talking about Flacco, his two biggest throws of the play offs were both underthrown. & the first TD pass to Bolden in the Super Bowl...... go back & watch a few passes before that, he threw the same ball to Bolden, Bolden just wasn't able to adjust. The one that he did score on Bolden made an amazing Matrix like catch.

thunderkyss
02-11-2013, 09:49 PM
But Flacco has more wins, Flacco wins more in the big games.

You can have him, I'll take Joe

And since 2008, the year they were drafted

Wins are a team thing.

& yes, you're right. Flacco was drafted in 2008 & Matt outperformed him in the regular season ever since.


& I like the avatar..... it's not flaunting if you got it.

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 08:45 AM
Somebody's pp hurt, of that I have no doubt. You can dismiss the stats, but it doesn't change the fact that Matt has out performed Flacco in the regular season, on a gimp foot no less.

What exactly is the measuremnt being used? Passing stats, wins, Passing yardage, TD-INT ratio, scarmble yardage??? Lets have a defined measurable.

You can argue that Matt chokes in the big game & I really can't argue. But just because he didn't win his first divisional play off game ever, doesn't mean that he can't, or that he won't win the next one. If he dddn't win his first playoff game, then that means he can't. The TWO stats I go back to with Ryan are- 9TDS- 7INTS and 1 WIN- 4 LOSSES

And I love the underthrown ball & the receiver having to adjust argument, but when we're talking about Flacco, his two biggest throws of the play offs were both underthrown. & the first TD pass to Bolden in the Super Bowl...... go back & watch a few passes before that, he threw the same ball to Bolden, Bolden just wasn't able to adjust. The one that he did score on Bolden made an amazing Matrix like catch.

Both balls that were "underthrown" to Jacoby for TDS: #1- The last second TD in Denver travels 55yds in the air while Flacco steps up in the pocket halway plants and throws due to the pass rush. #2- 56 yard TD in the Super Bowl travels 50 yds thru the air off his front foot as Flacco steps up in the pocket to elude the rush. Not sure anyone else could have made those throws.

The throws to Boldin are throws they practice- put it where only Boldin can go get it because Boldin has some of the strongest hands, arms in the league. Flacco started the season with some of the same throws, they have been there all year long.

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 08:50 AM
Wins are a team thing.

& yes, you're right. Flacco was drafted in 2008 & Matt outperformed him in the regular season ever since.


& I like the avatar..... it's not flaunting if you got it.

Marino had awesome regular seasons

Tarkenton had awesome regular seasons

Matt Stafford has awesome regular seasons

Cam Newton has awesome regular seasons

And thanks= waited 12 years, same length of time we didn't have fooball after the Colts were stolen....

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 08:51 AM
Not in the playoffs ... because he never made it ... his PP hurt.

Stats? Dismissed.

Matt's stats are based on receivers having to adjust to overthrown and under-thrown and off target balls.

Matt hasn't outperformed Toro ...

When you have Julio Jones, Roddy White and Tony G and can't convert a 4th and 1.....

ObsiWan
02-12-2013, 10:38 AM
I'm sorry...

...what was the original point of this discussion?


oh yeah, where does Matt Schaub rank among the 2012/13 playoff QBs. Well, if regular season means nothing except to get you in the dance - as has been said often by some here - AND the only stat that counts is W's, then only way to rank QBs is by their playoff records...

1. Flacco 4-0
2. Kaepernick 2-1
3. Five-way tie for third; Schaub, Wilson, M. Ryan, A. Rodgers, T. Brady.
8. Five-way tie for eigth; Joe Webb, A. Luck, RGIII, Dalton, P. Manning.

So Schaub is third - along with four other schmucks who only won one game too. I put him behind Brady since Brady won the head-to-head match up and even with Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers who also won at home but lost on the road.

There.... See how easy that was?
:hides:

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 10:46 AM
I'm sorry...

...what was the original point of this discussion?


oh yeah, where does Matt Schaub rank among the 2012/13 playoff QBs. Well, if regular season means nothing except to get you in the dance - as has been said often by some here - AND the only stat that counts is W's, then only way to rank QBs is by their playoff records...

1. Flacco 4-1
2. Kaepernick 2-1
3. Five-way tie for third; Schaub, Wilson, M. Ryan, A. Rodgers, T. Brady.
8. Five-way tie for eigth; Joe Webb, A. Luck, RGIII, Dalton, P. Manning.

So Schaub is third - along with four other schmucks who only won one game too. I put him behind Brady since Brady won the head-to-head match up and even with Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers who also won at home but lost on the road.

There.... See how easy that was?
:hides:

Flacco 4-0

ObsiWan
02-12-2013, 12:15 PM
Flacco 4-0

Right.
duuh...

Corrected.

thunderkyss
02-12-2013, 12:26 PM
Both balls that were "underthrown" to Jacoby for TDS: #1- The last second TD in Denver travels 55yds in the air while Flacco steps up in the pocket halway plants and throws due to the pass rush. #2- 56 yard TD in the Super Bowl travels 50 yds thru the air off his front foot as Flacco steps up in the pocket to elude the rush. Not sure anyone else could have made those throws.

The throws to Boldin are throws they practice- put it where only Boldin can go get it because Boldin has some of the strongest hands, arms in the league. Flacco started the season with some of the same throws, they have been there all year long.

In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 12:52 PM
In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?

2 of Flacco's passes were underthrown, I gave the circumstances, not what the other poster was talking about with Ryan; his passes that are underthrown are in the 10-15-20 yd range, not 40 to 50 yds downfield. So Its really not a comparison.

As far as Boldin goes, they practice those throws and catches to take advantage of Flacco's arm ad Boldin's strong pass catching ability. I've seen him make sliding catches, running catches, etc. He also had 3 drops in the Super Bowl; one that almost hit him in the face mask.

thunderkyss
02-12-2013, 01:08 PM
2 of Flacco's passes were underthrown, I gave the circumstances, not what the other poster was talking about with Ryan; his passes that are underthrown are in the 10-15-20 yd range, not 40 to 50 yds downfield. So Its really not a comparison.

As far as Boldin goes, they practice those throws and catches to take advantage of Flacco's arm ad Boldin's strong pass catching ability. I've seen him make sliding catches, running catches, etc. He also had 3 drops in the Super Bowl; one that almost hit him in the face mask.

In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?

handswarmer
02-12-2013, 07:10 PM
In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?

When Matt Ryan can even throw the ball 55 yds in the air, come talk to me...

Otherrwise your point, while technically correct, is moot and immaterial to the conversation.

thunderkyss
02-12-2013, 08:04 PM
Otherrwise your point, while technically correct...

So now that we got that out of the way....


And I love the underthrown ball & the receiver having to adjust argument, but when we're talking about Flacco, his two biggest throws of the play offs were both underthrown. & the first TD pass to Bolden in the Super Bowl...... go back & watch a few passes before that, he threw the same ball to Bolden, Bolden just wasn't able to adjust. The one that he did score on Bolden made an amazing Matrix like catch.

My friend.

It is not my intention to insult Joe Flacco when I mention that his two biggest throws in his amazing Super Bowl run were underthrown. Nor do I mean any harm to the most awesomest QB in the league when I say Bolden contorted himself to catch a pass thrown by the great one. Technically they are just facts.

But this is a Texans board & the conversation is about Matt Schaub. The argument was made that Matt's stats mean nothing because he consistently under throws his receivers & they have to make wildly acrobatic catches to make him look good.

A reference to Flacco here is not an insult. It is a sincere expression of flattery that I compare our mere human QB to the god of all QBs.

ATXtexanfan
02-12-2013, 08:28 PM
18 page thread and schaub still sucks. Dude is a fraud. A high paid fraud. But a fraud. Not even best qb in his division let alone playoffs.

handswarmer
02-13-2013, 10:01 AM
So now that we got that out of the way....



My friend.

It is not my intention to insult Joe Flacco when I mention that his two biggest throws in his amazing Super Bowl run were underthrown. Nor do I mean any harm to the most awesomest QB in the league when I say Bolden contorted himself to catch a pass thrown by the great one. Technically they are just facts.

But this is a Texans board & the conversation is about Matt Schaub. The argument was made that Matt's stats mean nothing because he consistently under throws his receivers & they have to make wildly acrobatic catches to make him look good.

A reference to Flacco here is not an insult. It is a sincere expression of flattery that I compare our mere human QB to the god of all QBs.

Go back to th Week 1 win over te Bengals- Joe threw the same pass to Pitta: its in the playbook.

Regardless, the thread was about comparing Schaub to the other 11 QB's in the playoffs: that was done and became a focus on Flacco as he kept winning while others were losing.

Jules Winnfield
02-13-2013, 06:31 PM
18 page thread and schaub still sucks. Dude is a fraud. A high paid fraud. But a fraud. Not even best qb in his division let alone playoffs.

leave it to texan fans who have severe emotional attachments to mediocre qbs and choke artists.

See David Carr
See Biggio and Bagwell
See the the Rockets after the Yao/Tmac era


This city embraces mediocrity and the status quo like no other.