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View Full Version : The "Kubiak effect" has kicked in


Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 03:28 PM
Many of us mentioned the small signs throughout the season, but kept quiet about it for the most part since we were winning. Tried to have faith and remain positive, but it can no longer be ignored or denied. The "Kubiak factor" has officially stunk around this team once again. The only difference now is that Kubiak has had a great defense for the majority of the season other then a few games here and there.

This team is playing uninspired once again. But worst of all we've got an entire offense that has fallen apart. Everyone wants to put this all on Schaub which is an easy fix and a easy blame tactic, but Schaub isn't the only part on this team that is struggling. It's the O line, it's the RB's, and it's been the sorry ass WR's all season other then Andre Johnson.


When have we ever seen a team ranked this high all year long lose this much momentum and confidence to lose 3 out of 4 at the end of the season like this when they previously had the best record in the league all year?? THAT"S A COACHING ISSUE.


We saw these problems with Kubiak for years. People tried to act like they all went away when Wade arrived, but they didn't. Kubiak will never be an effective leader. I started a thread a few weeks ago after we got crushed by the Patriots stating that I liked out chances in the playoffs better after a loss like that. I gave Gary the benefit of the doubt and figured that the team would play better. I at least hoped they could do it on their own. Now this team has dropped two out of the last three must win games. It's time for people to realize again that we've got a HC that just doesn't have what it takes.


Not giving up on the season though. Hopefully the players themselves can get it together and motivate themselves.

EllisUnit
12-30-2012, 03:30 PM
Many of us mentioned the small signs throughout the season, but kept quiet about it for the most part since we were winning. Tried to have faith and remain positive, but it can no longer be ignored or denied. The "Kubiak factor" has officially stunk around this team once again. The only difference now is that Kubiak has had a great defense for the majority of the season other then a few games here and there.

This team is playing uninspired once again. But worst of all we've got an entire offense that has fallen apart. Everyone wants to put this all on Schaub which is an easy fix and a easy blame tactic, but Schaub isn't the only part on this team that is struggling. It's the O line, it's the RB's, and it's been the sorry ass WR's all season other then Andre Johnson.


When have we ever seen a team ranked this high all year long lose this much momentum and confidence to lose 3 out of 4 at the end of the season like this when they previously had the best record in the league all year?? THAT"S A COACHING ISSUE.


We saw these problems with Kubiak for years. People tried to act like they all went away when Wade arrived, but they didn't. Kubiak will never be an effective leader. I started a thread a few weeks ago after we got crushed by the Patriots stating that I liked out chances in the playoffs better after a loss like that. I gave Gary the benefit of the doubt and figured that the team would play better. I at least hoped they could do it on their own. Now this team has dropped two out of the last three must win games. It's time for people to realize again that we've got a HC that just doesn't have what it takes.


Not giving up on the season though. Hopefully the players themselves can get it together and motivate themselves.

Agree with most but its not like Kubiak has given our young WRs much of a chance with his all the time 2 WR 2 TE formations. Jean and Posey have looked really good. Hell Jean had an easy TD today if not for an over throw by Schaub.

Kubiak can not go out of his confort zone, they only get good playing time when we are down by 2 scores with 7 minutes left when the back ups come in :kitten:

Pantherstang84
12-30-2012, 03:32 PM
Said this in the GD thread...

Folks hoping Kubiak will get fired after a 12-4 season are delusional. Unless, McNair has a Bud Adams side we do not know about. Could not get rid of him after 6-10. Kubiak in this town is like that ugly old Samsonite that has been sitting in your closet the last 30 years. You just can't get rid of it.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Agree with most but its not like Kubiak has given our young WRs much of a chance with his all the time 2 WR 2 TE formations. Jean and Posey have looked really good. Hell Jean had an easy TD today if not for an over throw by Schaub.

Kubiak can not go out of his confort zone, they only get good playing time when we are down by 2 scores with 7 minutes left when the back ups come in :kitten:

Kubiak is the guy that has ignored our #2 WR situation for years. I harped on and on about it all off season. I've been begging this organization to get a decent #2 WR for years now.

I laughed my ass off at folks who went on and on and just "assumed" that Martin and Jean were going to be these studs because of the pre season. I mentioned how JJ did the same and that it was way to early to get excited over some young WR's that had proven nothing.

Either way, this is an offense that has fallen apart. An entire offense on all cylinders. Blaming it all on one player is something only a blind man would do. The offense has no spunk at all. In previous years with teams like this, I've never seen a running team lose all of their abilities to run the ball like the Texans have at this point. Normally teams like that don't just have their running games fall apart like that.

mussop
12-30-2012, 03:43 PM
Many of us mentioned the small signs throughout the season, but kept quiet about it for the most part since we were winning. Tried to have faith and remain positive, but it can no longer be ignored or denied. The "Kubiak factor" has officially stunk around this team once again. The only difference now is that Kubiak has had a great defense for the majority of the season other then a few games here and there.

This team is playing uninspired once again. But worst of all we've got an entire offense that has fallen apart. Everyone wants to put this all on Schaub which is an easy fix and a easy blame tactic, but Schaub isn't the only part on this team that is struggling. It's the O line, it's the RB's, and it's been the sorry ass WR's all season other then Andre Johnson.


When have we ever seen a team ranked this high all year long lose this much momentum and confidence to lose 3 out of 4 at the end of the season like this when they previously had the best record in the league all year?? THAT"S A COACHING ISSUE.


We saw these problems with Kubiak for years. People tried to act like they all went away when Wade arrived, but they didn't. Kubiak will never be an effective leader. I started a thread a few weeks ago after we got crushed by the Patriots stating that I liked out chances in the playoffs better after a loss like that. I gave Gary the benefit of the doubt and figured that the team would play better. I at least hoped they could do it on their own. Now this team has dropped two out of the last three must win games. It's time for people to realize again that we've got a HC that just doesn't have what it takes.


Not giving up on the season though. Hopefully the players themselves can get it together and motivate themselves.

I agree about Kubiak. However, if Schaub makes the plays where he had the chance to make them this game we win despite the refs, the OL and whomever else didn't play up to snuff. The QB has to make plays when given the opportunity or more times than not you are going to loose. That's why the QP is considered the most important position on the team.

Kubiak could lead a team to the Super Bowl with a better QB. Schaub will never lead a team to the Super Bowl. There is just no way to put together a team talented enough to carry him that far.

And believe me I'm not a Kubiak guy.

GP
12-30-2012, 03:55 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

ajohnson80
12-30-2012, 03:58 PM
I agree it's gross. Everyone wanted him gone years ago then Wade came. He is ok as an oc, but it is obvious he can't be trusted to make game decisions.

Pantherstang84
12-30-2012, 03:58 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

GP where do you come up with these awesome analogies? Seriously, do you have a football encyclopedia somewhere?

GP
12-30-2012, 04:04 PM
GP where do you come up with these awesome analogies? Seriously, do you have a football encyclopedia somewhere?

Not sure if serious...or being sarcasm on me.

I have felt, for a long time now, that Elway and Kubiak are linked in more than just one way. Some guys are winners, some are not.

There is a reason Kubiak never made it as a starter. There is a reason Elway did. I trust that the same reason is what makes Elway a better identifier of talent than Gary.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, find ways to pretend they can.

Manning might only have this season and he tanks next year. But right now, Kubiak looks like he should have scrapped Schaub...let Foster go in favor of Tate and Forsett...and then spent the money on Manning. Even if it meant we still went over the cap and had to sacrifice a devastating loss of a draft pick and stuff.

In hindsight, Elway was clutch and Gary is left holding the clipboard and pretending he, too, is awesome like Johnny.

TimeKiller
12-30-2012, 04:06 PM
Well, Kubiak's favorite thing to say about him "playing QB" in the NFL is that he was just 'sticking around hoping nobody would figure out he couldn't play'. I think that's an appropriate description of him at head coach now.

Heat's turning up in the kitchen....but what's cookin?

HJam72
12-30-2012, 04:08 PM
To be fair, Elway was a better QB at least partly because he had far superior physical ability, which doesn't in itself make him more knowledgeable about anything.

But, I definitely get your point and I was very concerned about not going pretty hard for Manning. God, I hope he doesn't win another SB. :toropalm:

Pantherstang84
12-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Not sure if serious...or being sarcasm on me.

I have felt, for a long time now, that Elway and Kubiak are linked in more than just one way. Some guys are winners, some are not.

There is a reason Kubiak never made it as a starter. There is a reason Elway did. I trust that the same reason is what makes Elway a better identifier of talent than Gary.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, find ways to pretend they can.

Manning might only have this season and he tanks next year. But right now, Kubiak looks like he should have scrapped Schaub...let Foster go in favor of Tate and Forsett...and then spent the money on Manning. Even if it meant we still went over the cap and had to sacrifice a devastating loss of a draft pick and stuff.

In hindsight, Elway was clutch and Gary is left holding the clipboard and pretending he, too, is awesome like Johnny.

Wasn't being sarcastic and you make an excellent point. The problem with getting Manning was Kubiak would have had to give up the Denny's menu and give the keys to Manning. That is something he will not do because he feels like an offensive genius.

Playoffs
12-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Kubiak don't suit up on Sundays.

Our O-Line sucked. Winston and Brisiel wouldn't be the turnstiles our right side has become.

Whatever "magic" Wade had seems to get solved somewhere in the 2nd years of his installing it. And it appears he can't come up with an answer, yet. Seems like taking Watt out of the equation makes us a paper tiger.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 04:09 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

DOn't want to focus on Schaub much in this thread if you don't mind GP. I acknowledge that Schaub is playing pretty bad right now, but he is only one part of the problem on an "entire offense." I'm amazed at how Kubiak is escaping this criticism right now and Schaub's getting it all. The running game is stinking, Duane Brown is getting owned, Foster has been beaten to a pulp all season with good back ups at our disposal as well. Have you ever seen an entire offense that was "3rd in scoring" just two weeks ago completely crumble like this??? I repeat we were "THIRD!!!" "3rd!!!!" "THIRD!!"


How do you go from being 3rd in scoring all season long to being a team that can't pass, can't run, can't block, and worst of all "CAN'T WIN!!"

That's a coaching problem.

Marcus
12-30-2012, 04:11 PM
GP where do you come up with these awesome analogies? Seriously, do you have a football encyclopedia somewhere?

He's got it up his ass. That's where he gets all of his info.

Wolf
12-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Nvm....

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 04:11 PM
This team is playing uninspired once again.

I stopped reading.....

Pantherstang84
12-30-2012, 04:13 PM
He's got it up his ass. That's where he gets all of his info.

Ahh. Time to pump sunshine.:kubepalm:

False Start
12-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Kubiak caught it from Capers, and there is no cure. :(

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/10843_1181877185878_219099_n_zps897409e9.jpg

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 04:17 PM
At what point do people acknowledge that when a team who was 3rd in scoring and 2nd in scoring for most of the year has a huge coaching problem when it all falls apart by the end of the season? At what point do people remember who our HC is that kept us out of the playoffs prior to Wade?? The end of this season is just a huge reminder of what Kubes has always been.

mariowillshine15
12-30-2012, 04:17 PM
Kubiak caught it from Capers, and there is no cure. :(

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/10843_1181877185878_219099_n_zps897409e9.jpg

Art Shell perfected this look for the Raiders a few years back.

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 04:19 PM
Not sure if serious...or being sarcasm on me.

I have felt, for a long time now, that Elway and Kubiak are linked in more than just one way. Some guys are winners, some are not.

Only thing.... by comparing Kubiak to Elway, you're admitting that Kubiak is & has been more than "just" a head coach here. As such, he deserves more credit for what has gone right here in Houston (and more blame for what has gone wrong).

deucetx
12-30-2012, 04:22 PM
Well you can add the sudden lack of discipline with all the penalties.

Trying to keep the thread on the point the OP is making I have to agree that it seems like the team has taken on Kubiak's personality. I don't see enough fire and passion at critical points in critical games. Just a more reserved approach by the team in general but mainly the offense. I see absolutely nothing but a flatness to their game that reminds me of the personality of their head coach.

Will there be a change? Highly unlikely. McNair isn't that type of gambler and is a fan of Kubiak but when you look at how flat and out of sync this team is you have to see the issue with the coaching. Not to mention he is part of Rick Smith's decisions and the idea of at least not trying to work something out with Winston was a poor one. I understand Brisel was horribly overpaid by the Raiders but Winston we didn't even attempt a restructure or anything. We were just certain Newton or Butler could man it...

Another coaching decision is sticking with Walter for so darn long. He is not a #2. Period. Everyone knew this but we kept with these paltry receivers (not named Dre) for years and waited on Jacoby for a while too. Another is the idea of Casey playing fullback instead of just letting him play tight end so we could get a real fullback. So we had a makeshift fullback with a makeshift right side offensive line and expected something from that? I like Casey but I like him for receiving skills. Not lead blocking.

One thing that maybe....MAYBE....will be possible is a new offensive coordinator where Kubiak finally relents playcalling. I doubt it seriously as he is stubborn but it has been said by many position coaches who become head coaches that it is best if they allow their coaches to coach and they just worry about being a head coach. We seriously need something different from the offense and Kubiak will not change his ways. Heck, I don't even know if Dennison is capable of calling plays since he gets no opportunity. Only little Shanny got the chance here.

Pantherstang84
12-30-2012, 04:25 PM
Well you can add the sudden lack of discipline with all the penalties.

Trying to keep the thread on the point the OP is making I have to agree that it seems like the team has taken on Kubiak's personality. I don't see enough fire and passion at critical points in critical games. Just a more reserved approach by the team in general but mainly the offense. I see absolutely nothing but a flatness to their game that reminds me of the personality of their head coach.

Will there be a change? Highly unlikely. McNair isn't that type of gambler and is a fan of Kubiak but when you look at how flat and out of sync this team is you have to see the issue with the coaching. Not to mention he is part of Rick Smith's decisions and the idea of at least not trying to work something out with Winston was a poor one. I understand Brisel was horribly overpaid by the Raiders but Winston we didn't even attempt a restructure or anything. We were just certain Newton or Butler could man it...

Another coaching decision is sticking with Walter for so darn long. He is not a #2. Period. Everyone knew this but we kept with these paltry receivers (not named Dre) for years and waited on Jacoby for a while too. Another is the idea of Casey playing fullback instead of just letting him play tight end so we could get a real fullback. So we had a makeshift fullback with a makeshift right side offensive line and expected something from that? I like Casey but I like him for receiving skills. Not lead blocking.

One thing that maybe....MAYBE....will be possible is a new offensive coordinator where Kubiak finally relents playcalling. I doubt it seriously as he is stubborn but it has been said by many position coaches who become head coaches that it is best if they allow their coaches to coach and they just worry about being a head coach. We seriously need something different from the offense and Kubiak will not change his ways. Heck, I don't even know if Dennison is capable of calling plays since he gets no opportunity. Only little Shanny got the chance here.

I miss that dude.

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 04:25 PM
DOn't want to focus on Schaub much in this thread if you don't mind GP. I acknowledge that Schaub is playing pretty bad right now, but he is only one part of the problem on an "entire offense." I'm amazed at how Kubiak is escaping this criticism right now and Schaub's getting it all. The running game is stinking, Duane Brown is getting owned, Foster has been beaten to a pulp all season with good back ups at our disposal as well. Have you ever seen an entire offense that was "3rd in scoring" just two weeks ago completely crumble like this??? I repeat we were "THIRD!!!" "3rd!!!!" "THIRD!!"


How do you go from being 3rd in scoring all season long to being a team that can't pass, can't run, can't block, and worst of all "CAN'T WIN!!"

That's a coaching problem.

Not to defend Kubiak, but I've been saying for years, we need to back off a little bit on these defensively strong drafts & FA acquisitions.

Kubiak was 3rd in scoring with a talent starved offense.... we don't have the pedigree on the defensive side of the ball like we have on the defense. Kubiak needs a couple of blue chips on his side of the ball. I love Arian, best back in the league..... I'd like to say that every now & then. But we need players from winning programs, the best of the best on the offensive side of the ball. We need guys who know how to step it up. Guys who expect to win & understand they have to get it done.

Do we need first rounders at every position? No. I'm not saying that at all. But we need to improve the "pedigree" on offense.

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

Rick Smith is in charge of trades, not Kubiak.

Mr. Texan
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
At what point do people acknowledge that when a team who was 3rd in scoring and 2nd in scoring for most of the year has a huge coaching problem when it all falls apart by the end of the season? At what point do people remember who our HC is that kept us out of the playoffs prior to Wade?? The end of this season is just a huge reminder of what Kubes has always been.

because it's easier to just blame schaub.....duh.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 04:30 PM
Well you can add the sudden lack of discipline with all the penalties.

Trying to keep the thread on the point the OP is making I have to agree that it seems like the team has taken on Kubiak's personality. I don't see enough fire and passion at critical points in critical games. Just a more reserved approach by the team in general but mainly the offense. I see absolutely nothing but a flatness to their game that reminds me of the personality of their head coach.

Will there be a change? Highly unlikely. McNair isn't that type of gambler and is a fan of Kubiak but when you look at how flat and out of sync this team is you have to see the issue with the coaching. Not to mention he is part of Rick Smith's decisions and the idea of at least not trying to work something out with Winston was a poor one. I understand Brisel was horribly overpaid by the Raiders but Winston we didn't even attempt a restructure or anything. We were just certain Newton or Butler could man it...

Another coaching decision is sticking with Walter for so darn long. He is not a #2. Period. Everyone knew this but we kept with these paltry receivers (not named Dre) for years and waited on Jacoby for a while too. Another is the idea of Casey playing fullback instead of just letting him play tight end so we could get a real fullback. So we had a makeshift fullback with a makeshift right side offensive line and expected something from that? I like Casey but I like him for receiving skills. Not lead blocking.

One thing that maybe....MAYBE....will be possible is a new offensive coordinator where Kubiak finally relents playcalling. I doubt it seriously as he is stubborn but it has been said by many position coaches who become head coaches that it is best if they allow their coaches to coach and they just worry about being a head coach. We seriously need something different from the offense and Kubiak will not change his ways. Heck, I don't even know if Dennison is capable of calling plays since he gets no opportunity. Only little Shanny got the chance here.

Finally someone who gets the nuts and bolts of what I'm illustrating.


Again, people don't seem to acknowledge that all season long we've been one of the highest scoring offenses all season. These last 4 weeks have been such a rapid decline all across the board. Just a total explosion of problems. People seem to be rather blind to put it all on Schaub if you ask me. Schaub has had his problems, but how do you explain an entire offense falling flat like this?? That goes on the OC which is Kubiak when you consider everything. And we've seen this happen before.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 04:31 PM
Frankly, I'm surprised Texans fans aren't calling for Andy Reid.

Wolf
12-30-2012, 04:32 PM
Defensively they are missing intensity

http://p.twimg.com/AdmLrsvCQAAbGfW.jpg

MEGA SWATT
12-30-2012, 04:35 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

good points - change your sig text.

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 04:35 PM
Defensively they are missing intensity

http://p.twimg.com/AdmLrsvCQAAbGfW.jpg

He brings intensity as well as over all great play, and this team has to draft a thumper to play next to him.

Ranger Tom
12-30-2012, 04:37 PM
Defensively they are missing intensity

Could losing Cushing really have hurt us this much?

midway
12-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Could losing Cushing really have hurt us this much?

Yeah, it could, and it did. However the worst part is that this team has played the last 4 weeks like it really didn't give a **** at all, and that's the worst thing.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 04:39 PM
Could losing Cushing really have hurt us this much?

Yes, losing your defensive quarterback could definitely hurt a team as much as it has hurt ours.

Look at Baltimore for further proof.

Wolf
12-30-2012, 04:41 PM
Could losing Cushing really have hurt us this much?
I believe it did

He kept the d fired up
Cush couLd also blitz inside


Leader like Ray Lewis

houstonspartan
12-30-2012, 04:42 PM
So what, realistically, is the answer for us? Kubiak is not going anywhere, and Schaub got an extension a few months ago. So we're stuck with BOTH of them for, at the very least, a couple of years.

So, now what? The earliest I can see a change at QB and/or head coach is 2015.

Wolf
12-30-2012, 04:44 PM
So what, realistically, is the answer for us? Kubiak is not going anywhere, and Schaub got an extension a few months ago. So we're stuck with BOTH of them for, at the very least, a couple of years.

So, now what? The earliest I can see a change at QB and/or head coach is 2015.

We need to keep drafting well

houstonspartan
12-30-2012, 04:46 PM
Well you can add the sudden lack of discipline with all the penalties.

Trying to keep the thread on the point the OP is making I have to agree that it seems like the team has taken on Kubiak's personality. I don't see enough fire and passion at critical points in critical games. Just a more reserved approach by the team in general but mainly the offense. I see absolutely nothing but a flatness to their game that reminds me of the personality of their head coach.

Will there be a change? Highly unlikely. McNair isn't that type of gambler and is a fan of Kubiak but when you look at how flat and out of sync this team is you have to see the issue with the coaching. Not to mention he is part of Rick Smith's decisions and the idea of at least not trying to work something out with Winston was a poor one. I understand Brisel was horribly overpaid by the Raiders but Winston we didn't even attempt a restructure or anything. We were just certain Newton or Butler could man it...

Another coaching decision is sticking with Walter for so darn long. He is not a #2. Period. Everyone knew this but we kept with these paltry receivers (not named Dre) for years and waited on Jacoby for a while too. Another is the idea of Casey playing fullback instead of just letting him play tight end so we could get a real fullback. So we had a makeshift fullback with a makeshift right side offensive line and expected something from that? I like Casey but I like him for receiving skills. Not lead blocking.

One thing that maybe....MAYBE....will be possible is a new offensive coordinator where Kubiak finally relents playcalling. I doubt it seriously as he is stubborn but it has been said by many position coaches who become head coaches that it is best if they allow their coaches to coach and they just worry about being a head coach. We seriously need something different from the offense and Kubiak will not change his ways. Heck, I don't even know if Dennison is capable of calling plays since he gets no opportunity. Only little Shanny got the chance here.

A new coordinator? Kubiak's on, what, like his 4th or 5th offensive coordinator already? And even if he DID bring in a new coordinator, he'd hire someone just like him, and now way would he relinquish playcalling.

As I said above, I'm not sure what the answer is, because neither Kubiak nor Schaub are going anywhere any time soon.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 05:40 PM
At what point do people acknowledge that when a team who was 3rd in scoring and 2nd in scoring for most of the year has a huge coaching problem when it all falls apart by the end of the season? At what point do people remember who our HC is that kept us out of the playoffs prior to Wade?? The end of this season is just a huge reminder of what Kubes has always been.

Its just easier to blame schaub b/ c his play is most easily quantifiable from play to play....people don't really want to address putting players in the best possible situation to make plays b/c its so much easier to just "upgrade" in our trouble areas..or at least people think it is easy anyway.

The whole offense is stinking it up....and i fail to see how schaub's poor play affects the offenses inability to convert a 3rd and 2 on a simple power run play...how schaub's poor play affects the offenses' inability to convert a 2nd and goal power run play last week...

ziggy29
12-30-2012, 05:43 PM
The whole offense is stinking it up....and i fail to see how schaub's poor play affects the offenses inability to convert a 3rd and 2 on a simple power run play...how schaub's poor play affects the offenses' inability to convert a 2nd and goal last week...

Fair to a point, but I'd also say that it points to other issues (i.e. coaching). The offense can't convert a 3rd and 2 in large part because their play calling is so predictable. ANY defense in the NFL can stop a play more often than not if they have a pretty good idea what is coming.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 05:48 PM
Its just easier to blame schaub b/ c his play is most easily quantifiable from play to play....people don't really want to address putting players in the best possible situation to make plays b/c its so much easier to just "upgrade" in our trouble areas..or at least people think it is easy anyway.

The whole offense is stinking it up....and i fail to see how schaub's poor play affects the offenses inability to convert a 3rd and 2 on a simple power run play...how schaub's poor play affects the offenses' inability to convert a 2nd and goal power run play last week...

Well for once you and I have been on the same side of this argument. We're losing track in our efforts though Mr. Tex, because this is like Schaub's 4th bad game in a row. I'll still look at the entire season as a whole to judge him by, but fading like this down the stretch speaks a lot.

Overall I just haven't ever seen an offense fall apart like this on all levels. I do blame Kubiak for beating Foster to death all season when Forsett could have played and when Tate was healthy he could have been in more. There was no reason to play Foster that much. The Oline has been getting tossed the last few weeks as well. I realize that Schaub can't be effective when all these other things aren't going right though. He has never been a good enough QB to withstand all of that. It's like people thought he was elite or something so they're expecting these elite results that Schaub can't produce consistently. I just think that we need a better leader for our team in general.

I know Kubes is going nowhere though and neither is Schaub. At best I could hope that we get a lucky pick in the draft and he is good enough to supplant Schaub, but I highly doubt that is possible with a rookie.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 05:52 PM
Fair to a point, but I'd also say that it points to other issues (i.e. coaching). The offense can't convert a 3rd and 2 in large part because their play calling is so predictable. ANY defense in the NFL can stop a play more often than not if they have a pretty good idea what is coming.

Oh no i agree with you but my point was to show that this is a systemic problemm...its not localized to 1 area, like some here have been saying....its true that we'd likely be a much more capable offense with a more capable qb....but how would that really help with our other offensive woes in the run game......whats more is how/or could that be enough to overcome kubiak's obvious short comings.

Matt ryan/ and mike smith in atl were getting flack for not being able to get over their conservative issues a few years back...they drafted julio jones and have since quieted their critics for the moment...

Playoffs
12-30-2012, 05:56 PM
Rick Smith is in charge of trades, not Kubiak.

Yeah, but...... besides that. :kitten:

leebigeztx
12-30-2012, 06:49 PM
Finally someone who gets the nuts and bolts of what I'm illustrating.


Again, people don't seem to acknowledge that all season long we've been one of the highest scoring offenses all season. These last 4 weeks have been such a rapid decline all across the board. Just a total explosion of problems. People seem to be rather blind to put it all on Schaub if you ask me. Schaub has had his problems, but how do you explain an entire offense falling flat like this?? That goes on the OC which is Kubiak when you consider everything. And we've seen this happen before.

This is so false and you know it. The offense was scoring because the defense was getting turnovers and giving the offense the ball in great field position. Go and read the earlier threads about the offense struggling. This offense is an offfense that has to stay on schedule with all the componets working. Show me a game when schaub carried the offense. You cant even if you pull the jacksonville and detroit game out of your ass. even then the running game was still in play. Every poor offensive game the texans have had, its because smart teams put the game in matt schaubs hands and he fails. A couple of weeks ago the defense bailed them out vs this same colts team. Look at week 1 vs the pathetic dolphins and a rookie qb. You can try to defer the blame, but schaub was a 3rd pine rider who Kubes and crew thought he would fit because he ran the same offense since college. You know what, they were right because he was an upgrade to Carr. The problem and the blinders are he's a physically limited guy with slow feet. Unless you get another prime andre johnson,a top 5 defense,top 5 ol,and a gates in his prime at te, youre not winning anything with matt schaub.

Hervoyel
12-30-2012, 07:06 PM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.

If you cannot see this, then so be it. Both of them, together, are to blame. They have merged into the same person...as if Schaub is actually Kubiak out there on the field.

I don't think Kubiak will ever have a successful QB. Nobody could ever manage to escape Kubiak's death grip on this offense. Guys like Schaub exist to prove that boring QBs can win, too.

Isn't it funny that Kubiak was Elway's backup...and now Elway is in charge of the Broncos and he goes and gets Manning....and which team looks better? Huh?

Tebow wasn't Elway's guy. He trades him. He got VALUE for a worthless QB! Kubiak couldn't get a trade, not even a 7th round pick for an equally bad QB in Carr. Score? Elway 1, Kubiak 0.

Elway gambles on Manning, Kubiak sticks with Schaub. Elway 2, Kubiak 0.

His whole adult life, Kubiak has been looking up at John Elway.

Some guys have "it" in terms of playing QB in the NFL. And apparently some guys have "it" in terms of managing a team in the NFL. Elway holds the distinction of doing both. Kubiak does, as well, but with inverted results.

Such is life.

This is truth. Kubiak is exactly what he is and more than that he's what I was terrified he'd become. In terms of wins and losses get ready for the second coming of Marvin Lewis. In 10 years of coaching that team they're 78-80 and he's no closer to reaching the summit than he was when he got there. Gary's going to be that same kind of coach. Never great, never terrible, always finding a way to come up short in the end. To make it worse we've got the most patient owner in football and he'll never fire his coach as long as things don't get too bad, as long as Gary doesn't lose the players.

So here we are. No greatness in the mix, just a healthy amount of "good enough" for probably the next decade. Talk about a miserable fan experience. Cincinnati South wasn't what I had in mind when first learned that Houston was going to be back in the NFL game back in 2001/2002.

GNTLEWOLF
12-30-2012, 07:13 PM
This is truth. Kubiak is exactly what he is and more than that he's what I was terrified he'd become. In terms of wins and losses get ready for the second coming of Marvin Lewis. In 10 years of coaching that team they're 78-80 and he's no closer to reaching the summit than he was when he got there. Gary's going to be that same kind of coach. Never great, never terrible, always finding a way to come up short in the end. To make it worse we've got the most patient owner in football and he'll never fire his coach as long as things don't get too bad, as long as Gary doesn't lose the players.

So here we are. No greatness in the mix, just a healthy amount of "good enough" for probably the next decade. Talk about a miserable fan experience. Cincinnati South wasn't what I had in mind when first learned that Houston was going to be back in the NFL game back in 2001/2002.
:goodpost:
Hey! I've been saying this exact thing for several years now. It's beginning to look more and more like the truth

gafftop
12-30-2012, 07:23 PM
Well for once you and I have been on the same side of this argument. We're losing track in our efforts though Mr. Tex, because this is like Schaub's 4th bad game in a row. I'll still look at the entire season as a whole to judge him by, but fading like this down the stretch speaks a lot.

Overall I just haven't ever seen an offense fall apart like this on all levels. I do blame Kubiak for beating Foster to death all season when Forsett could have played and when Tate was healthy he could have been in more. There was no reason to play Foster that much. The Oline has been getting tossed the last few weeks as well. I realize that Schaub can't be effective when all these other things aren't going right though. He has never been a good enough QB to withstand all of that. It's like people thought he was elite or something so they're expecting these elite results that Schaub can't produce consistently. I just think that we need a better leader for our team in general.

I know Kubes is going nowhere though and neither is Schaub. At best I could hope that we get a lucky pick in the draft and he is good enough to supplant Schaub, but I highly doubt that is possible with a rookie.

The sad thing is I don't think they (fo/gk) think they need a new QB.

Runner
12-30-2012, 08:03 PM
Has Kubiak ever "failed to fail" when leading the Texans to the next milestone? Whenever they are on the verge of something new they fall short. It took him a couple of tries to lockup the first "non-losing" record, the first winning record, the first playoff appearance, etc. Is it any surprise that this team couldn't secure home field advantage with a win in either of the final two games of the season?

These are the same Kubiak Texans. Baby steps, incremental improvement, and lack of urgency.

TEXANRED
12-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Has Kubiak ever "failed to fail" when leading the Texans to the next milestone? Whenever they are on the verge of something new they fall short. It took him a couple of tries to lockup the first "non-losing" record, the first winning record, the first playoff appearance, etc. Is it any surprise that this team couldn't secure home field advantage with a win in either of the final two games of the season?

These are the same Kubiak Texans. Baby steps, incremental improvement, and lack of urgency.
Here's what I know about Kubiak, knowing that we can't run the football on the right side of the line, he finds it a good idea to relentlessly run the football to the right, especially when we get close to the end zone. It was also a great idea to call a Schaub QB keeper on 3rd and 2 inside your own 20. And then Kubiak calls for a challenge for 12 men on the field.

playa465
12-30-2012, 09:27 PM
He's got it up his ass. That's where he gets all of his info.

:spit:

Moving on, this team is in a funk. Kubiak has to assume responsibility being the HC but the players are not performing either. Its like the team is stuck in a rut just spinning its wheels. Kubiak isn't going anywhere next year and Schaub will be the QB next year barring injury. Personally, I think the players need to step it up. Kubiak (who is pretty conservative anyway) isn't going to take risks or open up the offensive playbook if the offense can't execute the simple stuff. The defense hasn't played inspired either of late, how many times have we given up a 1st down or a TD on 3rd and long? I do feel as though we can put all this behind us and win the SB if we can find Clyde and have him hook the team up like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/playa759/TexansNeed_zpsa39027f4-1_zps501d579f.jpg

Rep to first one who knows where I got this from

hradhak
12-30-2012, 09:35 PM
:spit:

Moving on, this team is in a funk. Kubiak has to assume responsibility being the HC but the players are not performing either. Its like the team is stuck in a rut just spinning its wheels. Kubiak isn't going anywhere next year and Schaub will be the QB next year barring injury. Personally, I think the players need to step it up. Kubiak (who is pretty conservative anyway) isn't going to take risks or open up the offensive playbook if the offense can't execute the simple stuff. The defense hasn't played inspired either of late, how many times have we given up a 1st down or a TD on 3rd and long? I do feel as though we can put all this behind us and win the SB if we can find Clyde and have him hook the team up like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/playa759/TexansNeed_zpsa39027f4-1_zps501d579f.jpg

Rep to first one who knows where I got this from

One thing I don't understand is that guys like Belicheck don't ever seem to turtle when their team is down. Maybe that is a player trust issue, but our team as a whole seems to turtle when we are getting beat. And that starts with the coach who gets too conservative.

I would like to see us get a new OC who will actually call the plays. Let him make the play calls a little more aggressive than what we've had. I'm tired of the "we're not playing well, so let's get even more conservative" mentality

Hookem Horns
12-30-2012, 09:43 PM
My mood is in the toilet because unfortunately I have been proven right in my assessment of Kubiak and Schaub.

Since this thread is about Kubiak I will discuss him. As I have said before, teams tend to carry the personality of the head coach. Unfortunately this team has Kubiak's personality.

When the chips are down and everything is at stake the team simply "looks away" the same way this head coach can't watch crucial field goal attempts. They can't bare to stare adversity in the face and fold up like a cheap tent when it counts.

"Thanks" Kubiak for bringing back Choke City. It's been awhile however it hasn't been missed.

Consider this experiment failed. I am referring to the experiment of can 2 very good coordinators on both sides of the ball win without the leadership of a strong head coach. It can win games but not when it counts. A strong head coach is needed to help a team overcome adversity and bounce back when trailing which this team cannot do.

My gawd, couldn't even beat a team that had nothing to play for. Pathetic.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 10:02 PM
My mood is in the toilet. That said, unfortunately I have been proven right in my assessment of Kubiak and Schaub.

Since this thread is about Kubiak I will discuss him. As I have said before, teams tend to carry the personality of the head coach. Unfortunately this team has Kubiak's personality.

When the chips are down and everything is at stake the team simply "looks away" the same way this head coach can't watch crucial field goal attempts. They can't bare to stare adversity in the face and fold up like a cheap tent when it counts.

"Thanks" Kubiak for bringing back Choke City. It's been awhile however it hasn't been missed.

Consider this experiment failed. I am referring to the experiment of can 2 very good coordinators on both sides of the ball win without the leadership of a strong head coach. It can win games but not when it counts. A strong head coach is needed to help a team overcome adversity and bounce back when trailing which this team cannot do.

My gawd, couldn't even beat a team that had nothing to play for. Pathetic.

It takes a strong head coach to admit and realize that his way isn't yielding the desired results.....and to change his approach if its needed....i dont think this dude has entertained that one bit. Instead, he's banking on better execution....

TEXANRED
12-30-2012, 10:03 PM
My mood is in the toilet. That said, unfortunately I have been proven right in my assessment of Kubiak and Schaub.

Since this thread is about Kubiak I will discuss him. As I have said before, teams tend to carry the personality of the head coach. Unfortunately this team has Kubiak's personality.

When the chips are down and everything is at stake the team simply "looks away" the same way this head coach can't watch crucial field goal attempts. They can't bare to stare adversity in the face and fold up like a cheap tent when it counts.

"Thanks" Kubiak for bringing back Choke City. It's been awhile however it hasn't been missed.

Consider this experiment failed. I am referring to the experiment of can 2 very good coordinators on both sides of the ball win without the leadership of a strong head coach. It can win games but not when it counts. A strong head coach is needed to help a team overcome adversity and bounce back when trailing which this team cannot do.

My gawd, couldn't even beat a team that had nothing to play for. Pathetic.
Love the new avatar.

I now pronounce that from this day forward Kubiak's new name is Loseiak.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2012, 10:42 PM
Love the new avatar.
I now pronounce that from this day forward Kubiak's new name is Loseiak.

This team has earned the Oil Derrick and I will keep it there until they prove otherwise.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 10:52 PM
This is so false and you know it. The offense was scoring because the defense was getting turnovers and giving the offense the ball in great field position. Go and read the earlier threads about the offense struggling. This offense is an offfense that has to stay on schedule with all the componets working. Show me a game when schaub carried the offense. You cant even if you pull the jacksonville and detroit game out of your ass. even then the running game was still in play. Every poor offensive game the texans have had, its because smart teams put the game in matt schaubs hands and he fails. A couple of weeks ago the defense bailed them out vs this same colts team. Look at week 1 vs the pathetic dolphins and a rookie qb. You can try to defer the blame, but schaub was a 3rd pine rider who Kubes and crew thought he would fit because he ran the same offense since college. You know what, they were right because he was an upgrade to Carr. The problem and the blinders are he's a physically limited guy with slow feet. Unless you get another prime andre johnson,a top 5 defense,top 5 ol,and a gates in his prime at te, youre not winning anything with matt schaub.

Don't me this give me this stuff about it being false when it was true. I don't care about all of the what if's and the so called reasons you want to claim in your own opinion. The fact is that we were and had been one of the top scoring offenses all season long. When you consider that and then you look at what this offense turned into by the end it was an epic fail by the offensive coaching staff to let their entire unit fall apart like that.

TejasTom
12-30-2012, 10:53 PM
Could losing Cushing really have hurt us this much?

The team voted him MVP last year.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2012, 10:59 PM
The team voted him MVP last year.

As valuable as Cushing is, he doesn't have enough influence to prepare the entire team and put them into another gear when the chips are down.

That can only come from the head coach and sometimes the QB. Unfortunately this team has quitters at both of those positions.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 11:08 PM
Cushing doesn't have that type of sway? Cushing doesn't have that much impact? Dude is the defensive QB. He's the passion of the freakin' team. He is indescribably valuable to everything we do and everything we are.

Just look at Ray Lewis being the leader of the Ravens for the last 15 years.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2012, 11:18 PM
Cushing doesn't have that type of sway? Cushing doesn't have that much impact? Dude is the defensive QB. He's the passion of the freakin' team. He is indescribably valuable to everything we do and everything we are.

Just look at Ray Lewis being the leader of the Ravens for the last 15 years.

I am not denying that. I am just saying that no matter how intense he is I don't think he is going to make enough difference to overcome Kubiak.

Maybe I am wrong and props to Cushing if I am but that is asking a LOT of him.

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 11:20 PM
As valuable as Cushing is, he doesn't have enough influence to prepare the entire team and put them into another gear when the chips are down.


I feel like we were getting more pressure on the QB when Cush was playing. We were getting turnovers like crazy. Not so much since he got hurt. That totally changes the game.

GP
12-31-2012, 12:33 AM
Cushing doesn't have that type of sway? Cushing doesn't have that much impact? Dude is the defensive QB. He's the passion of the freakin' team. He is indescribably valuable to everything we do and everything we are.

Just look at Ray Lewis being the leader of the Ravens for the last 15 years.

There is no way in hell that the loss of Brian Cushing is what has this entire team acting this way.

Last year we didn't have Foster for the first few games, didn't have Schaub for a lot of games, didn't have AJ for a lot of games, went without Manning for several games, played Leinart and then had to play Yates, and had Jacoby acting like Jacoby.

This year, we've lost BRIAN CUSHING. And THAT is the problem?

Seriously? You are avoiding the obvious. Obviously.

Our HC and our QB have crapped all over themselves. It was too much for them. Too good to be true. Like inner city youth who aspire to do great things, get to the cusp of achieving those great things, then implode from the pressure of knowing they are about to escape the shadow of misery. So they crater. They go out and they do something totally bizarre, and they blow their chances at greatness. Back down to earth, settling into old habits...bad decision making (i.e. Going for the FG when they should have punted...throwing bombs to the EZ instead of working the ball methodically down the field...on and on and on).

Wake up, dammit.

TheMatrix31
12-31-2012, 01:48 AM
I actually do think that. The team clearly was not the same after he got injured. That's as clear as day. We got destroyed against Green Bay the week after. The secondary was in shambles. You could see it in the defense. You could see how it affected the offense. You could see all of it.

Maybe you're underrating Brian Cushing. For a defense/team that's predicated on intensity and physicality, losing him was the death knell. All the havoc he created everywhere, getting after the QB, getting after those with the ball allowed the secondary to play better and allowed the front seven to play better. I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that losing a middle linebacker as good and as important as Cushing could have so much of an effect. I mean really, you guys have watched football a long time. You know what these types of players mean.

Doesn't matter what I say to you or what you say to me anyhow.

leebigeztx
12-31-2012, 03:55 AM
:spit:

Moving on, this team is in a funk. Kubiak has to assume responsibility being the HC but the players are not performing either. Its like the team is stuck in a rut just spinning its wheels. Kubiak isn't going anywhere next year and Schaub will be the QB next year barring injury. Personally, I think the players need to step it up. Kubiak (who is pretty conservative anyway) isn't going to take risks or open up the offensive playbook if the offense can't execute the simple stuff. The defense hasn't played inspired either of late, how many times have we given up a 1st down or a TD on 3rd and long? I do feel as though we can put all this behind us and win the SB if we can find Clyde and have him hook the team up like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/playa759/TexansNeed_zpsa39027f4-1_zps501d579f.jpg

Rep to first one who knows where I got this from

Let's do it again and that's bootney farnsworth getting ready to fight 40th street black!

thunderkyss
12-31-2012, 04:27 AM
I actually do think that. The team clearly was not the same after he got injured. That's as clear as day. We got destroyed against Green Bay the week after. The secondary was in shambles. You could see it in the defense. You could see how it affected the offense. You could see all of it.

Maybe you're underrating Brian Cushing.

I think it's like Andre said, we've been there done that... we're kind of numb to some things that we'd otherwise wouldn't be. We managed to win the division last year at 10-6. That wouldn't have been good enough this year. We lost Cushing, the next game I think we lost Bradie James, then Sharpton (after he'd just come back). We haven't had a standard set of ILB until the last three weeks?? Something like that. We've also lost Barwin. I know he's out there on the field, but his production is gone. We lost Brooks Reed as well, Jonathan Joseph, & Brice McCain. Though he's third on our depth chart, he plays a lot. Then we lost Ball one of our top 2 special teams guys.

Offensively, it hasn't been so bad. We lost Gump, then Newton for a little while, then Graham.

These are not "excuses" I'm not trying to "excuse" Schaub, Gary, or Wade. Just saying. This is very similar to last year & we performed better than last year in so much as we have 12 wins under our belt.

But expectations change. What was good enough last year, wouldn't cut it this year.

TheMatrix31
12-31-2012, 05:46 AM
Injury-wise, we had way more last year. More injuries last year than I've ever seen any team deal with, quite honestly.

I'm shocked we got that far last year.

But we lost Schaub last year and we lost Cushing this year. Both immeasurably crucial to what we do on either side. Losing Schaub kinda put the writing on the wall last year (and we still were very close to getting to the AFCC) just like losing Cushing did the same this year. Will we be able to make a similar push this year? Who knows.

Buffi2
12-31-2012, 07:06 AM
There are two huge coaching issues here that I don't think will ever change unless someone else calls the plays. For all of his "it is on me" spewings, Kubiak has on blinders. If it doesn't work? Fine, Kubiak will just continue calling the same plays trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Worse than playing the turtle, he refuses/is incapable of changing the plays and coming up with something new, different, a surprise to whomever we are playing.

During the MN game, this 67 year old woman was able to call the play before it happened with darned close to 95% accuracy. Please! That should never happen - ever.

And Wade's glaring weakness - discipline or lack thereof. The defense, before the New England game, decided they were good enough to play around with jackets and jokes. At some point a coach, be it Wade or Kubiak, should have stopped that right there and re-focused everyone. Sometimes, fun just isn't where your focus needs to be and these guys needed a strong reminder.

Kubiak is a fair coach but doesn't have the imagination or guts to coach when Super Bowls and playoffs are in the near future. He is out of his element and hasn't the tools to compete at the Patriot's level. It is painfully obvious that he isn't able to learn those skills.

As long as Kubiak is HC, we are pretty much locked into mediocrity as the best we can do.

thunderkyss
12-31-2012, 07:11 AM
There are two huge coaching issues here that I don't think will ever change unless someone else calls the plays. For all of his "it is on me" spewings, Kubiak has on blinders. If it doesn't work? Fine, Kubiak will just continue calling the same plays trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Worse than playing the turtle, he refuses/is incapable of changing the plays and coming up with something new, different, a surprise to whomever we are playing.


Stop it.

There was nothing wrong with the play calling yesterday. He didn't turtle, we threw down field more in that game than we did for the three weeks prior. It just didn't work for us. The two interceptions, penalties, & the three sacks hurt us more than the play calling did yesterday.

Grams
12-31-2012, 07:17 AM
It wasn't so much the play calling and it was having the team prepared to play.

Since we won the Division, we have more or less seem to have shut it down. Just like last year.

We come out flat and do not seem to be prepared to play with the intensity that the other teams have. Other that JJ and AJ who always come to play.

We do not seem to have the mental toughness to play with the big boys yet.

We lost HFA - no one took it from us. We lost it. Denver and New England made sure when they had the opportunity for HFA, did not let it slip through their fingers.

thunderkyss
12-31-2012, 07:30 AM
We lost HFA - no one took it from us. We lost it. Denver and New England made sure when they had the opportunity for HFA, did not let it slip through their fingers.

To put it in perspective, our last two opponents are play off teams. The Colts would be in the play offs even if we won the last one. The Vikings may not have been, but they beat the Packers to seal the deal.

That's not an excuse, we're playing bad regardless. But the Broncos & the Patriots played well against scrubs.

I understand your point & you're dead on. But the argument, that the Patriots & the Broncos made sure when they had the opportunity... that's not true. The Patriots held their destiny in their hands until they lost to the 49ers. The Broncos didn't control their destiny until 3pm yesterday.

amazing80
12-31-2012, 08:24 AM
losing Cushing has NOTHING to do with this offense, I dont care how you try to spin it, Matt Schaub is the reason we're sputtering offensively right now. Until he proves he can beat defenses teams will continue to load up and take out our run game....they show no respect to our pass game because 8 is garbage

Mr teX
12-31-2012, 08:41 AM
losing Cushing has NOTHING to do with this offense, I dont care how you try to spin it, Matt Schaub is the reason we're sputtering offensively right now. Until he proves he can beat defenses teams will continue to load up and take out our run game....they show no respect to our pass game because 8 is garbage

they aren't loading up in the box though; they don't have to. teams' d-lines are just flat out dominating our o-line & utilizing opportunistic blitzing. We've got a pro-bowl LT who got absolutely demolished by Freeney yesterday...That shouldn't happen. Derek Newton and Brandon Brooks whiffed on so many blocks yesterday, they had me thinking they were auditioning for a rodeo clown position.

Textan
12-31-2012, 09:23 AM
Said this in the GD thread...

Folks hoping Kubiak will get fired after a 12-4 season are delusional. Unless, McNair has a Bud Adams side we do not know about. Could not get rid of him after 6-10. Kubiak in this town is like that ugly old Samsonite that has been sitting in your closet the last 30 years. You just can't get rid of it.

Texans make the play offs Kubiak will go nowhere. I was praying he'd be gone at the end of the 2009 season, but those four meaningless wins at the end saved his job. I was honestly hoping the Texans would stumble at the end instead of getting those wins, that's how bad I wanted Kubiak gone. Yes, Schaub has looked awful, heck since New England, but to me a good coach draws on a teams strengths and doesn't make excuses for their weaknesses. This team, even when they were winning, has repeatedly come out flat or fallen flat in the second half. I look to nobody else in getting a team ready except Kubiak. It's the coaches job to inspire, to direct, to light a fire.
How many times did we witness the Texans absolutely dominate an opponent just to let them back in the game to make it a nail biter? That killer instinct has never been shown by Kubiak, which I believe filters down to the players.
I know the players loved the guy at the end of 2009. I kept wondering if their love stemmed from something we only saw evidence of on the playing field?
I see, even to this day, a lack of discipline and purpose with these players.
Spare the rod spoil the child.

Steal Your Face
12-31-2012, 09:45 AM
they aren't loading up in the box though; they don't have to. teams' d-lines are just flat out dominating our o-line & utilizing opportunistic blitzing. We've got a pro-bowl LT who got absolutely demolished by Freeney yesterday...That shouldn't happen. Derek Newton and Brandon Brooks whiffed on so many blocks yesterday, they had me thinking they were auditioning for a rodeo clown position.

IF that's really the problem (and it may in fact be) ... then we are in a mess of trouble next weekend. The Bengals have an absolutely dominating DL. They will get all over us unless our OL steps up big-time.

Hervoyel
12-31-2012, 10:07 AM
Art Shell perfected this look for the Raiders a few years back.


Art Shell was like a performance artist bringing this to the game every week.

He conveyed a real, emotional sense of "I don't know what the **** I'm looking at". He should get a job as a character actor in movies and stuff.

Art had it down. He made you believe.

Hervoyel
12-31-2012, 10:11 AM
I am not denying that. I am just saying that no matter how intense he is I don't think he is going to make enough difference to overcome Kubiak.

Maybe I am wrong and props to Cushing if I am but that is asking a LOT of him.


I think Cushing brings enough energy to keep Kubiak's stink off the defense but he can't make the offense produce and eventually that wears on both sides of the ball. Between Cushing and Watt there's something special going on with our defense and I say that despite the drop off we've seen this year.

Our offense though, it's got issues that no amount of stat massaging can cover up.

Double Barrel
12-31-2012, 10:35 AM
There is no Kubiak without Schaub.

There is no Schaub without Kubiak.

They are the same person.



yep. While we can highlight the problems with each one, it all comes back to the fact that these two mediocre football guys are joined at the hip.

Art Shell perfected this look for the Raiders a few years back.

It's a look we have seen all too often in Houston.

Jack Pardee (RIP) had it with his hat on crooked and headset that was never hooked up to anything.

Larry Dierker had that look on his face with the Astros and a random sunflower seed stuck to his lip. TV caught him in a daze trying to get that seed off his face with a wandering tongue.

Rudy T - the only championship coach this city has had in major sports - ended up with his crumpled jacket and tie flapping around, hair messed up and a confused look on his face.

What was most depressing about yesterday? When they scanned the Houston Texans sideline and I saw the "Warren Moon stare" on everyone's faces. That's not a good look. It's void of competitive fire and seems to be an acceptance of dismal fate. Our whole team looked that way yesterday afternoon.

This is truth. Kubiak is exactly what he is and more than that he's what I was terrified he'd become. In terms of wins and losses get ready for the second coming of Marvin Lewis. In 10 years of coaching that team they're 78-80 and he's no closer to reaching the summit than he was when he got there. Gary's going to be that same kind of coach. Never great, never terrible, always finding a way to come up short in the end. To make it worse we've got the most patient owner in football and he'll never fire his coach as long as things don't get too bad, as long as Gary doesn't lose the players.

So here we are. No greatness in the mix, just a healthy amount of "good enough" for probably the next decade. Talk about a miserable fan experience. Cincinnati South wasn't what I had in mind when first learned that Houston was going to be back in the NFL game back in 2001/2002.

Yep. And get ready to really swallow the hard pill. 2011 & 2012 are going to be our peak in hindsight. Andrew Luck and the Colts will own this division for the next decade, and just like the Bungals, we will sneak into the playoffs as a wildcard every so often and just enough times to keep Kubiak's job secure.

Thorn
12-31-2012, 10:38 AM
CAP limit. That's it.

The reason we couldn't keep everyone we wanted to. They let some go to stay under the CAP limit. We can argue who we should have let go, but the fact remains you CAN'T KEEP EVERYONE. It's just the nature of the business.

Runner
12-31-2012, 12:44 PM
CAP limit. That's it.

The reason we couldn't keep everyone we wanted to. They let some go to stay under the CAP limit. We can argue who we should have let go, but the fact remains you CAN'T KEEP EVERYONE. It's just the nature of the business.

The salary cap problem required a few oft-debated moves the past off-season. It led to a less talented team with a lack of depth. However when that effect was suggested during the pre-season, the response was:
1) next man up (as if a jingo could replace talent)
2) the backups are better than the starters (then why weren't they starting?)
3) Winston sucks
4) Demeco is injured and sucks
and my personal favorite:
5) you don't understand business and the salary cap

The cuts had to be made because of the cap issues, but they resulted in a weaker team that was lucky enough to have a fairly easy schedule. The result was a good run through the regular season with a lot of trouble against real super bowl contenders.

That leaves a few questions. Who manages the talent/salary cap? Who was surprised that the cap was lower than expected, which required some drastic moves?

Many were happy with the cuts because it gave the Texans the flexibility to re-sign Duane Brown and some others this off-season. Apparently it allowed them to extend Schaub too.

I think the reduced talent will show in the playoffs as well.

Say Watt
12-31-2012, 12:57 PM
Fine, losing Cushing dealt the defense a blow they couldn't recover from. I get that.

But what the flying fudge happened to the offense?!? We have a healthy Foster, a healthy Andre for the first time in years, a healthy Matt Schaub, a healthy OD, and this is what we get from our Pro Bowl offense?!?!?

How can anyone even begin the process of defending Kubiak?!? This football team has two Head Coaches. We have Wade Phillips as the Head Coach of the Defense and Gary Kubiak as the Head Coach of the Offense. Wade gets a pass since he lost arguably his best defensive football player not named Watt. But what has happened to the offense is inexcusable.

Without JJ Watt this season, I truly believe this is a team that doesn't even make the playoffs. When our offense should be at its best carrying this team (since we have established that all the major players have stayed healthy), they have been at their worst. Completely and utterly pathetic and unacceptable.

I might get flamed for this, but I honestly wish we had missed out on the playoffs. Then, there would at least be a snow ball's chance in hell that Kubiak would get fired, and this team could actually start making some progress. I just salivate over what John Gruden could probably do with the talent we have on this team.

houstonspartan
12-31-2012, 02:05 PM
Fine, losing Cushing dealt the defense a blow they couldn't recover from. I get that.

But what the flying fudge happened to the offense?!? We have a healthy Foster, a healthy Andre for the first time in years, a healthy Matt Schaub, a healthy OD, and this is what we get from our Pro Bowl offense?!?!?

How can anyone even begin the process of defending Kubiak?!? This football team has two Head Coaches. We have Wade Phillips as the Head Coach of the Defense and Gary Kubiak as the Head Coach of the Offense. Wade gets a pass since he lost arguably his best defensive football player not named Watt. But what has happened to the offense is inexcusable.

Without JJ Watt this season, I truly believe this is a team that doesn't even make the playoffs. When our offense should be at its best carrying this team (since we have established that all the major players have stayed healthy), they have been at their worst. Completely and utterly pathetic and unacceptable.

I might get flamed for this, but I honestly wish we had missed out on the playoffs. Then, there would at least be a snow ball's chance in hell that Kubiak would get fired, and this team could actually start making some progress. I just salivate over what John Gruden could probably do with the talent we have on this team.

Um...Kubiak was re-signed earlier this year. So, he wouldn't have gotten fired even IF we missed the playoffs.

And Jon Gruden? LOL. No comment. Dude is a clown and a fraud.

Say Watt
12-31-2012, 02:11 PM
Um...Kubiak was re-signed earlier this year. So, he wouldn't have gotten fired even IF we missed the playoffs.

And Jon Gruden? LOL. No comment. Dude is a clown and a fraud.

Plenty of coaches get signed to new deals and get fired. It wouldn't be the first or the last time.

And you are calling Gruden, a Super Bowl winning head coach, a clown and a fraud in a thread about Kubiak?!?

This obviously must have been you: :user:

bckey
12-31-2012, 02:18 PM
The Texans wouldn't even be playing next weekend if they had just beaten the Vikings or the Colts. So this game is meaningless imho. A win sends them on the road to play the Patriots with Gronk returning. Then if by some miracle the Texans showed up and beat the Patriots they would then have to jet over to Denver and play them for the AFC championship. The Texans are done this year and they only have themselves to blame. They set this whole mess in motion. They have no heart this year. Last season thats all they had. Stepping up everytime someone went down and finding ways to win.

Had they won yesterday they would be on a bye week preparing to host the Ravens at Reliant. Denver and New England would have to face each other with the winner playing the Texans at Reliant for the AFC championship. If they couldn't beat either the Vikings or the Colts to get this scenario instead of the one they are in now then what makes anyone think the Texans can beat any team they face in the playoffs?

I actually don't care if they beat the Bengals or not. Because there is no way this Texans team is going to win on the road in New England or Denver. Face it. Elite qb's eat the Texans for lunch. And our offense with Schaub at the helm on the road losing by at least a couple of tds, ughh. The playoffs to end the 2012 season for the Texans has disaster written all over it.

The player I feel bad for? Andre Johnson. This guy has given his all for the Texans and barely sniffs the playoffs at the end of his career. He is running out of time. It was a disgrace that the Texans didn't get a wr to stretch the field opposite Johnson. Instead they drafted projects.

I really wish the Texans would get rid of Kubiak and Smith but I know McNair will probably never do it. How great would it be to have a team like the Colts? You get Manning for a decade, suck for 1 year, now draft Luck and go 11-5 and right back in the playoffs. Houston took a decade just to get to the playoffs. I'm not happy with Wade either but that is a whole different rant. I will just say this. He needs to quit putting the square peg in the round hole. Design some different schemes that use zone more when facing elite qbs. Change can be good. Predictable in the NFL is a death sentence.

Donnieman
12-31-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah, you're right it has kicked in. But really, what did you expect.
This was and is Denver Lite.

Kubiak should be a QB coach and thats it.
Do you ever see an ounce of intensity?
Do you ever see an ounce of inspiration?

Just like Capers he looks ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS on the sidelines.
Deer in the headlights part deux.

And Schaub? Please.At best he is an average NFL QB.Maybe even below average.

Think about it.... if he was on the trading block the day after the Texans go one and done again , which of corse they will,what would he bring?

A third or more likely fourth round pick.

houstonspartan
12-31-2012, 02:25 PM
Plenty of coaches get signed to new deals and get fired. It wouldn't be the first or the last time.

And you are calling Gruden, a Super Bowl winning head coach, a clown and a fraud in a thread about Kubiak?!?

This obviously must have been you: :user:

1) McNair doesn't operate like that. You know it, we all know it. He just re-signed Kubiak, and is loyal to his staff. No way is he getting fired any time soon. I'm not even a fan of Kubiak. I'm just being realistic about what we're stuck with.

2) Jon Gruden, as has been debated for years, won with Dungy's players. Period. Simple. Point blank. Everyone knows it. He did nothing after, and made a fool of himself in Tampa with the QB mess. Gruden is a CLOWN, and a fraud, his ability to make funny faces does not make him a good coach.

3) Ken Whisenhunt went to a Superbowl. He was fired today. Lovie Smith went to a Super Bowl. He was fired today. Andy Reid went to the Super Bowl. He was fired today. Spare me the nonsense about Gruden having won a Super Bowl making him a great coach. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing the name Gruden. I wish he'd pick a freakin team already and go there, so we don't have to hear his name again.

4) Wishing your team missed the playoffs so you could get rid of the coach is weak sauce. I can't stand Kubiak in general, but, I'll take the playoffs

bckey
12-31-2012, 02:37 PM
4) Wishing your team missed the playoffs so you could get rid of the coach is weak sauce. I can't stand Kubiak in general, but, I'll take the playoffs

What do playoffs matter if when they get there they can't compete. Throw Cinncinnatti out of the picture because that is a game and a saturday that Houston should not have had to play if they took care of their business. Whether the Texans win or lose against the Bengals is a moot point. Now enter New England on the road and Denver on the road instead of only facing 1 of th 2 at Reliant. The Texans can't win when it really counts.

Say Watt
12-31-2012, 02:38 PM
1) McNair doesn't operate like that. You know it, we all know it. He just re-signed Kubiak, and is loyal to his staff. No way is he getting fired any time soon. I'm not even a fan of Kubiak. I'm just being realistic about what we're stuck with.

2) Jon Gruden, as has been debated for years, won with Dungy's players. Period. Simple. Point blank. Everyone knows it. He did nothing after, and made a fool of himself in Tampa with the QB mess. Gruden is a CLOWN, and a fraud, his ability to make funny faces does not make him a good coach.

3) Ken Whisenhunt went to a Superbowl. He was fired today. Lovie Smith went to a Super Bowl. He was fired today. Andy Reid went to the Super Bowl. He was fired today. Spare me the nonsense about Gruden having won a Super Bowl making him a great coach. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing the name Gruden. I wish he'd pick a freakin team already and go there, so we don't have to hear his name again.

4) Wishing your team missed the playoffs so you could get rid of the coach is weak sauce. I can't stand Kubiak in general, but, I'll take the playoffs

1) You are probably right

2) That Oakland team that Gruden played against WAS Gruden's team that he built himself.

3) Yep, lots of mediocre coaches make it to Super Bowls. But typically only the good ones actually win it. The only name you mentioned that actually won a Super Bowl was Gruden.

4) You are entitled to your opinion. The last statement was a bit of an exaggeration. I am happy we are at least in the playoffs. But if we lose next week, I will stand by my statement. A loss means nothing. All we did with 12-4 was screw ourselves out of better draft position. That's it.

Say Watt
12-31-2012, 02:39 PM
What do playoffs matter if when they get there they can't compete. Throw Cinncinnatti out of the picture because that is a game and a saturday that Houston should not have had to play if they took care of their business. Whether the Texans win or lose against the Bengals is a moot point. Now enter New England on the road and Denver on the road instead of only facing 1 of th 2 at Reliant. The Texans can't win when it really counts.

Exactly. As far as I am concerned (and I am not concerned in the least with numbers), 12-4 is no different for me than 2-14 if both seasons end the same way. Except for the ****ty draft position for the 12-4 team.

Donnieman
12-31-2012, 02:45 PM
Kubes....wait a minute. Could that actually be Kubs?
Yeah that's gotta be it. The curse of the Cubs visits H-Town and no goat on the field is going to make it better.
Oh wait,,,, we already have a goat on the field....mybad.

Kubiaks consistenly vanilla offense is SOOOOOO predictable and every other D-Coordinator knows it.
Nervous Schaub throws 9-10 yard pass to tight end.
Nervous Schaub throws 1- 2 passes to Johnson.
Nervous Schaub hands off to Foster for 2-3 yard gain.

And you thought it was difficult to be a head coach in Houston.:overreact:

Texecutioner
12-31-2012, 08:55 PM
losing Cushing has NOTHING to do with this offense, I dont care how you try to spin it, Matt Schaub is the reason we're sputtering offensively right now. Until he proves he can beat defenses teams will continue to load up and take out our run game....they show no respect to our pass game because 8 is garbage

I still can't understand how you haven't figured out that an Oline has to be able to block for a QB. A RB has to be able to find the holes on running plays. I cannot assume you are watching the same games that I am when you say these things above. Is Schaub struggling? Yes. Is the rest of the team struggling just as bad? Yes.