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otisbean
12-29-2012, 05:35 AM
I'd like to get some thoughts regarding Barwin. I really like the guy and would like to see him remain a Texan, BUT I'm not happy with his performance this season at OLB. The WOLB is supposed to get sacks, and I believe at this point Barwin has 3.... I'm wondering how Barwin would do at ILB next to Cushing. He's athletic enough to play in space, remember he started as a TE and he was a college basketball player, in fact his combine numbers are very similar to Cush's

Barwin
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75418&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

Cush
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57013&draftyear=2009&genpos=olb

The reason I have this in the draft section is simple, we've had less than stellar play from our LBs this year and I believe this must addressed early in the draft or through FA (which is typically expensive).
The 2 areas I'd love to improve on the Texans are the OL and the pass rush. I feel like our DL is quite good, though I would like an upgrade at NT like most here. I'd like to grab a pass rusher early (Ansah perhaps) and move Barwin inside. Ansah, Barwin, Cush, and Reed with Merciless in the mix along with Watt and Smith would be quite scary in terms of pressure on opposing QBs. Barwin and Cush coming on inside blitzes would be awesome. I'm also very intrigued by Ansah and would love to see him in a Texans uniform as a WOLB

If we resign Barwin and keep him outside then I'd like to look at either Olgetree
or Minter as an ILB upgrade. I like Dobbins as depth and I'd let James walk

For OL, I think I'd like to sign some veteran help, we have a bunch on young guys that have some talent so adding more youth may not be the answer. Signing a vet or 2 and letting the young guys learn a grow a bit would work well in my opinion. Just some thoughts

beerlover
12-29-2012, 01:12 PM
I'd like to get some thoughts regarding Barwin. I really like the guy and would like to see him remain a Texan, BUT I'm not happy with his performance this season at OLB. The WOLB is supposed to get sacks, and I believe at this point Barwin has 3.... I'm wondering how Barwin would do at ILB next to Cushing. He's athletic enough to play in space, remember he started as a TE and he was a college basketball player, in fact his combine numbers are very similar to Cush's

Barwin
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75418&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

Cush
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57013&draftyear=2009&genpos=olb

The reason I have this in the draft section is simple, we've had less than stellar play from our LBs this year and I believe this must addressed early in the draft or through FA (which is typically expensive).
The 2 areas I'd love to improve on the Texans are the OL and the pass rush. I feel like our DL is quite good, though I would like an upgrade at NT like most here. I'd like to grab a pass rusher early (Ansah perhaps) and move Barwin inside. Ansah, Barwin, Cush, and Reed with Merciless in the mix along with Watt and Smith would be quite scary in terms of pressure on opposing QBs. Barwin and Cush coming on inside blitzes would be awesome. I'm also very intrigued by Ansah and would love to see him in a Texans uniform as a WOLB

If we resign Barwin and keep him outside then I'd like to look at either Olgetree
or Minter as an ILB upgrade. I like Dobbins as depth and I'd let James walk

For OL, I think I'd like to sign some veteran help, we have a bunch on young guys that have some talent so adding more youth may not be the answer. Signing a vet or 2 and letting the young guys learn a grow a bit would work well in my opinion. Just some thoughts

There is a silver lining, Texans will retain Barwin to a very reasonable long term deal.

steelbtexan
12-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Have you seen the offense the last 3 games?

It's time to fix the offense.

Re-signing Barwin is a good thing, re-signing Quin is more important. IMHO

TEXANRED
12-29-2012, 02:37 PM
Have you seen the offense the last 3 games?

It's time to fix the offense.

Re-signing Barwin is a good thing, re-signing Quin is more important. IMHO

Yup. Priority should be RT, RG, WR, in that order.

Mr teX
12-29-2012, 03:21 PM
I agree...the o-line has to be priority for 2013...olb needs to be addressed, just later

otisbean
12-29-2012, 03:28 PM
I do want to address the Offense, just through FA. Brooks, Jones, and Newton have some talent, just need to mature abit, I'm NOT saying I wouldn't want to upgrade, I would just like to add a vet or 2. Levitre from Buffalo would look great in a Texan uniform for example. I think we are finally at a point where we are a very attractive FA destination.

I've also seen some talent from Posey I'd like to see what he can do and I'd like to add a veteran WR as well.

Our sack production from our LBs has been poor this year and once Cush went down our ILB have been less than stellar.

steelbtexan
12-29-2012, 03:36 PM
I do want to address the Offense, just through FA. Brooks, Jones, and Newton have some talent, just need to mature abit, I'm NOT saying I wouldn't want to upgrade, I would just like to add a vet or 2. Levitre from Buffalo would look great in a Texan uniform for example. I think we are finally at a point where we are a very attractive FA destination.

I've also seen some talent from Posey I'd like to see what he can do and I'd like to add a veteran WR as well.

Our sack production from our LBs has been poor this year and once Cush went down our ILB have been less than stellar.

Probably wont have cap room.

Dutch is the resident cap guy, maybe he will give his thoughts.

Goldensilence
12-29-2012, 04:17 PM
Have you seen the offense the last 3 games?

It's time to fix the offense.

Re-signing Barwin is a good thing, re-signing Quin is more important. IMHO


This. I like Barwin and the motor he brings. I think this year his lack of sack production is attributed partially to just the dominant play of Watt and different responsibilities because of how great Watt is atm.

I think we can now resign Barwin on the cheap, but getting Quinn re-resigned or addressing FS is going to be much more important.

Corrosion
12-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Yup. Priority should be RT, RG, WR, in that order.

To be honest , I think Wade Smith at LG has been just as bad if not worse than Jones or Newton.

My #2 pick in my first mock was a guy who could play multiple positions along the right side. (Kyle Long). RG & RT.

I dont think the Texans can afford to go with more than one rookie on the OL next season. I wouldnt mind multiple upgrades but if thats the case , I want a veteran upgrade along with that draft pick.


We probably need a comprehensive list of potential FA's in the coming offseason ....

Corrosion
12-29-2012, 04:53 PM
This. I like Barwin and the motor he brings. I think this year his lack of sack production is attributed partially to just the dominant play of Watt and different responsibilities because of how great Watt is atm.

I think we can now resign Barwin on the cheap, but getting Quinn re-resigned or addressing FS is going to be much more important.

Quin would be my top priority in this crop of FA's .... without a doubt. Especially considering that Demps and Keo are also FA's leaving only Manning at either S spot under contract.


Wade has used Barwin quite differently this year , especially late in the season , notice how often he's dropped back in coverage ?!
He's also been solid setting the edge against the run .... Just not a lot of numbers to show for his efforts.

I dont think keeping Bawrin is imperative .... I could see a case for keeping him or letting him walk and would be Ok either way. Bottom line it will boil down to $$$.

Rey
12-29-2012, 04:56 PM
Man, Barwin and Reed would both be ok to good SOLBs....

Neither have shown the ability to be what I think we need out of a WOLB. I personally am not a big Merciless guy, but he has more quickness in short area than both of them.

But we need someone from that WOLB position that is going to constantly on QB's heels. He has to stress the OT out almost every single snap. Speed around the edge or a mixture of speed and power...whatever...Doesn't matter...but this defense would look much, much better IMO with that guy at the WOLB position...And that guy is not Reed or Barwin...

For all the flack Mario got when he was here, he was that guy. Fukin impossible to block with RB's and TE's in this scheme and when he was matched up against OT's he put stress in their life.

We don't have to have a guy exactly like Mario, but we need a demon over there. This was part of the reason I was so high on Bruce Irvin last year, and it's part of the reason why I'm a big fan of taking Dion Jordan in this upcoming draft and seeing what Braman and Merciless can bring in a legit competition for playing time.



As far as Barwin's future, I'd let him walk unless he is going to sign for a ridiculous amount. I don't like him as a weakside OLB and the difference between him and Reed on the Strong side is not such a huge gap to where I think we have to have him.

Let him walk and draft another OLB or two.

Corrosion
12-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Probably wont have cap room.

Dutch is the resident cap guy, maybe he will give his thoughts.

Looking at who the Texans could possibly lose in FA , only one guy is due a significant increase (Quin) .... They wont be able to go out and sign a big name , but they could get a solid mid-level contract guy and still fill out the roster with quality players.

Rey
12-29-2012, 04:58 PM
I'd re-sign Quinn, but I'd also draft a young safety as well. Need to have another good player back there learning. Quinn has his deficiencies, but he is solid overall. Not going ot do a whole lot of crazy ****.

badboy
12-29-2012, 07:34 PM
Bye Bye Barwin

TimeKiller
12-29-2012, 07:50 PM
I guess it depends on what kind of contract he asks for. What happened to this guy? I could definitely envision them letting Barwin walk and picking up the best pass rusher available in the first.

otisbean
12-29-2012, 08:02 PM
I think resigning Quin is a no brainer

badboy
12-29-2012, 08:05 PM
I think resigning Quin is a no brainerWell Quin may have something to say about it.

beerlover
12-29-2012, 10:12 PM
Barwin is a solid starter playing a premium position. Quin is a solid starter who had to switch from premium position.

steelbtexan
12-29-2012, 11:37 PM
Looking at who the Texans could possibly lose in FA , only one guy is due a significant increase (Quin) .... They wont be able to go out and sign a big name , but they could get a solid mid-level contract guy and still fill out the roster with quality players.

Good news,

Dont know what OG/OT's are available in FA, but if they can sign an above avg OG and draft somebody like Long in the 2nd rd. The OL would look much better. Then get AJ some help on the outside and I think Schaub, despite his limitations would look much better.

Wade Smith made the pro bowl and will probably be looking to get paid. I've got alot of faith in Brooks taking over for Smith.

Agree with you about Barwin, but he put on weight this offseason and it hurt his quickness, if he gets back to last yrs playing weight he can become a double digit sack guy again. He's a hard worker so I wouldn't bet against him. Like you said it will all come down to the $$$$ with Barwin.

I know that the Texans could use a NT and a ILB and they should use later rd picks on those guys. Knott/A.J. Klein could be drafted later. But my philosophy is because teams play about 60% nickle defense now building the secondary should be a priority. Demps is a weakness and if he's re-signed for vet min to be a 4th S/ST's guy that would be OK.

The fastest way to upgrade the defense would be to re-sign Quin and to spend the 3rd rd comp pick on a S like Duke Williams, he can cover the slot WR/TE as well as play on the back end. This would also free up the Quin. I'm not advocating Williams although I like him alot. Just giving a philosophy on how to improve the Texans defense quickly.

Corrosion
12-30-2012, 01:56 AM
Good news,

Dont know what OG/OT's are available in FA, but if they can sign an above avg OG and draft somebody like Long in the 2nd rd. The OL would look much better. Then get AJ some help on the outside and I think Schaub, despite his limitations would look much better.

Wade Smith made the pro bowl and will probably be looking to get paid. I've got alot of faith in Brooks taking over for Smith.


I think Smith has one more year on his deal.

Despite his making the ProBowl .... I think he's had a mediocre year at best .... especially this last 3 weeks.





Agree with you about Barwin, but he put on weight this offseason and it hurt his quickness, if he gets back to last yrs playing weight he can become a double digit sack guy again. He's a hard worker so I wouldn't bet against him. Like you said it will all come down to the $$$$ with Barwin.

I know that the Texans could use a NT and a ILB and they should use later rd picks on those guys. Knott/A.J. Klein could be drafted later. But my philosophy is because teams play about 60% nickle defense now building the secondary should be a priority. Demps is a weakness and if he's re-signed for vet min to be a 4th S/ST's guy that would be OK.

The fastest way to upgrade the defense would be to re-sign Quin and to spend the 3rd rd comp pick on a S like Duke Williams, he can cover the slot WR/TE as well as play on the back end. This would also free up the Quin. I'm not advocating Williams although I like him alot. Just giving a philosophy on how to improve the Texans defense quickly.

You saw my draft board .... I dont have a DT until the mid rounds.

The thinking behind that is the potential of losing McCain , Ball , Demps , Keo and Quin - All contributors , All FA's after the season.

Sure , I'd love to have a stud DT that would play 3 downs .... but dont see it in the cards , just too many holes to fill which is kinda odd to state when you are talking about a 12-3 team.

The offense definately needs help as its been anemic for the last month.

otisbean
12-30-2012, 05:45 AM
Good news,

Dont know what OG/OT's are available in FA, but if they can sign an above avg OG and draft somebody like Long in the 2nd rd. The OL would look much better. Then get AJ some help on the outside and I think Schaub, despite his limitations would look much better.

Wade Smith made the pro bowl and will probably be looking to get paid. I've got alot of faith in Brooks taking over for Smith.

Agree with you about Barwin, but he put on weight this offseason and it hurt his quickness, if he gets back to last yrs playing weight he can become a double digit sack guy again. He's a hard worker so I wouldn't bet against him. Like you said it will all come down to the $$$$ with Barwin.

I know that the Texans could use a NT and a ILB and they should use later rd picks on those guys. Knott/A.J. Klein could be drafted later. But my philosophy is because teams play about 60% nickle defense now building the secondary should be a priority. Demps is a weakness and if he's re-signed for vet min to be a 4th S/ST's guy that would be OK.

The fastest way to upgrade the defense would be to re-sign Quin and to spend the 3rd rd comp pick on a S like Duke Williams, he can cover the slot WR/TE as well as play on the back end. This would also free up the Quin. I'm not advocating Williams although I like him alot. Just giving a philosophy on how to improve the Texans defense quickly.

I agree with everything you say here. I'd like us to target Andy Levitre from Buffalo or Brandon Moore from the Jets and I'd love to grab Long or another solid OT prospect in the 2nd. We also need some S depth as Dempsey and Keo are full of meh

Goldensilence
01-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Quin would be my top priority in this crop of FA's .... without a doubt. Especially considering that Demps and Keo are also FA's leaving only Manning at either S spot under contract.


Wade has used Barwin quite differently this year , especially late in the season , notice how often he's dropped back in coverage ?!
He's also been solid setting the edge against the run .... Just not a lot of numbers to show for his efforts.

I dont think keeping Bawrin is imperative .... I could see a case for keeping him or letting him walk and would be Ok either way. Bottom line it will boil down to $$$.

I've noticed too I've seen Barwin drop back more and haven't seen him set free really as often as last year. I have seen him seen him just miss on sacks this year too though. However, Merciless has been starting to get in on the rotation and I see him in him the backfield a lot just like Barwin last year. Now is he going to be a potential pro bowler? No clue, but clearly OLB was a concern going into last year with the loss of Mario and possibly in preparation of Barwin leaving via FA after a really solid job last year.

The question is going of course money. Physically he just doesn't look like the freak he did last year. Reed and Merciless are going to be steady at OLB at least, but the question is rotation and their respective ceilings.

I doubt we'll see it but I'd really like to see them invest something more substantial on the back end other than Keo and Demps, because I've seen them rotate in and they're vast drop offs from Manning and Quinn. I'm not saying we need pro bowlers but we need guys who have the speed to cover deep and keep better with slot WRs.

OL is going to be a question mark going into next season regardless of how the season ends. Jones ceiling to me seems closer to Brisiel than Hutchinson, but seems to be getting more PT than Caldwell, who is clearly on the way out now. I'd down down for someone like Levitre who would prolly be a good fit for what we're doing here and I was high on him coming out of the draft.

Not sure what to think of Wade Smith this year, but it kind of reminds me of Chester Pitts, when one of your guard spots is struggling you have to add extra help and shift responsibilities. Physically Brooks has what you want in a guard and I can only hope over this season he's learning something.

I dunno about you and I even doubt this is in the realm of possibility, but if I started to see Te'o drop a few spots to the lower top ten I'd be willing to give up some picks to have him and Cush man ILB. It'd make the the middle of this defense 10x better and free up whomever is going to start at OLB.

TimeKiller
01-02-2013, 08:09 PM
I think we should do like the Seahawks, grab the craziest pass rusher available: Margus Hunt, DE in the first. I bet he doesn't even last that long. That guy is twice the freak Barwin is and his production would push Antonio Smith's bloated contract out the door at the same time. Mercilus gets a real shot to fulfill his potential, Reed resumes his normal duties at SAM, Money is better spent on keeping Quin around, players know they have to produce to get paid. All wins.

After that you target OL, maybe another RB and filling in depth up the middle of the defense that will also improve the special teams.

otisbean
01-03-2013, 06:15 AM
I've noticed too I've seen Barwin drop back more and haven't seen him set free really as often as last year. I have seen him seen him just miss on sacks this year too though. However, Merciless has been starting to get in on the rotation and I see him in him the backfield a lot just like Barwin last year. Now is he going to be a potential pro bowler? No clue, but clearly OLB was a concern going into last year with the loss of Mario and possibly in preparation of Barwin leaving via FA after a really solid job last year.

The question is going of course money. Physically he just doesn't look like the freak he did last year. Reed and Merciless are going to be steady at OLB at least, but the question is rotation and their respective ceilings.

I doubt we'll see it but I'd really like to see them invest something more substantial on the back end other than Keo and Demps, because I've seen them rotate in and they're vast drop offs from Manning and Quinn. I'm not saying we need pro bowlers but we need guys who have the speed to cover deep and keep better with slot WRs.

OL is going to be a question mark going into next season regardless of how the season ends. Jones ceiling to me seems closer to Brisiel than Hutchinson, but seems to be getting more PT than Caldwell, who is clearly on the way out now. I'd down down for someone like Levitre who would prolly be a good fit for what we're doing here and I was high on him coming out of the draft.

Not sure what to think of Wade Smith this year, but it kind of reminds me of Chester Pitts, when one of your guard spots is struggling you have to add extra help and shift responsibilities. Physically Brooks has what you want in a guard and I can only hope over this season he's learning something.

I dunno about you and I even doubt this is in the realm of possibility, but if I started to see Te'o drop a few spots to the lower top ten I'd be willing to give up some picks to have him and Cush man ILB. It'd make the the middle of this defense 10x better and free up whomever is going to start at OLB.

As a 20+ year ND fan, I'd literally do a back flip if we landed Teo. I know people talk about the Wr position quite a bit and I agree that it should be upgraded, but we HAVE to address the OL and LBs this off season if we want to be a legit SB contenders

Rey
01-03-2013, 07:35 AM
I'd like to get some thoughts regarding Barwin. I really like the guy and would like to see him remain a Texan, BUT I'm not happy with his performance this season at OLB. The WOLB is supposed to get sacks, and I believe at this point Barwin has 3.... I'm wondering how Barwin would do at ILB next to Cushing. He's athletic enough to play in space, remember he started as a TE and he was a college basketball player, in fact his combine numbers are very similar to Cush's

Barwin
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75418&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

Cush
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57013&draftyear=2009&genpos=olb

The reason I have this in the draft section is simple, we've had less than stellar play from our LBs this year and I believe this must addressed early in the draft or through FA (which is typically expensive).
The 2 areas I'd love to improve on the Texans are the OL and the pass rush. I feel like our DL is quite good, though I would like an upgrade at NT like most here. I'd like to grab a pass rusher early (Ansah perhaps) and move Barwin inside. Ansah, Barwin, Cush, and Reed with Merciless in the mix along with Watt and Smith would be quite scary in terms of pressure on opposing QBs. Barwin and Cush coming on inside blitzes would be awesome. I'm also very intrigued by Ansah and would love to see him in a Texans uniform as a WOLB

If we resign Barwin and keep him outside then I'd like to look at either Olgetree
or Minter as an ILB upgrade. I like Dobbins as depth and I'd let James walk

For OL, I think I'd like to sign some veteran help, we have a bunch on young guys that have some talent so adding more youth may not be the answer. Signing a vet or 2 and letting the young guys learn a grow a bit would work well in my opinion. Just some thoughts

Not a fan of ansah or merciless as pass rushers and I think having both of them would do very little to help the pass rush. I can't see ansah as a wolb here because that's where merciless plays. And I don't know if I want to see merciless playing on the strong side over te's.

Minter is a decent player, but tbh, outside of Teo none of the ilb prospects I've seen do anything for me. And I don't even think Teo is all world. Weak year for ilb IMO. Maybe we can go after Shaun Phillips and play him inside some or Rey mauluga.

On OL I think this is a good year to grab a guy high. There are quite a few guys that seem like they'd fit well here.

Mr teX
01-03-2013, 08:21 AM
Barwin...needs to be let go period..the guy hasn't done anything over his career to warrant bringing back..

badboy
01-03-2013, 10:05 AM
The position Barwin plays for Phillips does not call for a player that makes 44 tackles & 3 sacks. Watt's productivity should allow Barwin to get free and dominate the QB. He is not being double teamed.

Quin playing behind our corners is in a prime position. An article in Houston paper today by David Barron asks if Joseph can cover Bengals' AJ Green. He quotes former NFL all pro safety Darren Sharper "JJ is not good when he's on an island."
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/01/struggling-texans-bashed-by-national-analysts-dubbed-elephants-on-parade/

If Barwin leaves we do have two starters in Reed and Mercilus. If Quin leaves we are in wee bit of consternation with no one behind him.

IDEXAN
01-03-2013, 11:37 AM
Barwin has only 3 sacks this year playing primarily from Wade Phillip's primary pass-rushing position at the weakside OLB/DE position. He did get 11.5 sacks last year, but 5 came in one game vs the Jags and the leagues worst QB, so arguable that "double-sack" total is misleading. But the thing is he had a very
underachieving 2012 season, which was his "contract year", so it's highly unlikely that the Texans bid higher for Barwin's sevices this upcoming offseason than EVERY other team in the NFL. Besides the Texans have an even higher investment in first-round pick Murciless who they expect to start and develope in the near future, and there isn't room for both to start.

Playoffs
01-03-2013, 12:00 PM
Does Wade's scheme this year make it harder to judge Barwin? It seems like everything up front was schemed to free up Watt. 76T?

otisbean
01-03-2013, 01:28 PM
Not a fan of ansah or merciless as pass rushers and I think having both of them would do very little to help the pass rush. I can't see ansah as a wolb here because that's where merciless plays. And I don't know if I want to see merciless playing on the strong side over te's.

Minter is a decent player, but tbh, outside of Teo none of the ilb prospects I've seen do anything for me. And I don't even think Teo is all world. Weak year for ilb IMO. Maybe we can go after Shaun Phillips and play him inside some or Rey mauluga.

On OL I think this is a good year to grab a guy high. There are quite a few guys that seem like they'd fit well here.

For the record, in my first post I was talking about possibly keeping Barwin and playing him at ILB, as I agree with you in that this may not be the best ILB class. There are some interesting guys, Teo, Ogletree, maybe Skov or Thomas but I think Barwin has the athleticism to play there and could give us some diversity in our LB group.

The main reason I picked Ansah, is he played well against ND so he's been stuck in my mind. Truth be told Im for any one that can rush the QB as outside of Watt we haven't had much

We also definitely need to upgrade the OL, and I wouldn't be opposed to taking one high. I do think our young guys have talent they just need to mature. Im hoping we add some FAs to the OL this year. Hell for the first time in our existence we are a choice destination IMHO.

mussop
01-09-2013, 05:56 PM
Barwin has only 3 sacks this year playing primarily from Wade Phillip's primary pass-rushing position at the weakside OLB/DE position. He did get 11.5 sacks last year, but 5 came in one game vs the Jags and the leagues worst QB, so arguable that "double-sack" total is misleading. But the thing is he had a very
underachieving 2012 season, which was his "contract year", so it's highly unlikely that the Texans bid higher for Barwin's sevices this upcoming offseason than EVERY other team in the NFL. Besides the Texans have an even higher investment in first-round pick Murciless who they expect to start and develope in the near future, and there isn't room for both to start.

After Reed got hurt Barwin switched to his position.