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View Full Version : Casey is a tight end ...not a fullback....


rush2112mn
12-24-2012, 06:24 PM
James Casey is a versatile player....but I dont think he should be our Fullback. I think Kubiak/Smith made a mistake on this one. I think he should be playing tight end myself.....not Fullback. He is too tall for the position. You need someone more short and stout....like Vickers.....Leach (should have never let him go.....). I just think that is part of the problem with the running game the fullback postion.
Noone has brought this up but I do think this has something to do with the problems with the running game. The fullback position.

Kubiak wanted to get more options for Schuab in the passing game and made the choice to go with Casey over bringing back Vickers or Norris as well.

Maybe Kubiak Smith are wrong on this one. I think so.

I want James Casey on offense......tight end...but not as our Fullback. I have seen enough.....
Thats not the only problem with the offense...but it is one of them.

Get a true Fullback back in here Gary or Rick....please......

Hervoyel
12-24-2012, 06:52 PM
James Casey is a versatile player....but I dont think he should be our Fullback. I think Kubiak/Smith made a mistake on this one. I think he should be playing tight end myself.....not Fullback. He is too tall for the position. You need someone more short and stout....like Vickers.....Leach (should have never let him go.....). I just think that is part of the problem with the running game the fullback postion.
Noone has brought this up but I do think this has something to do with the problems with the running game. The fullback position.

Kubiak wanted to get more options for Schuab in the passing game and made the choice to go with Casey over bringing back Vickers or Norris as well.

Maybe Kubiak Smith are wrong on this one. I think so.

I want James Casey on offense......tight end...but not as our Fullback. I have seen enough.....
Thats not the only problem with the offense...but it is one of them.

Get a true Fullback back in here Gary or Rick....please......

Absolutely they made a mistake. Letting Leach go and keeping Jacoby Jones was a huge mistake and it continues to bite us in the ass over and over again. Foster behind Leach was a beast. Foster without him has been less beastly in most every way imaginable.

We need to find a legitimate replacement for Vonta Leach. Vickers wasn't it and Casey isn't it either.

Premier
12-24-2012, 07:34 PM
letting leach was not a good move, as he was a great fullback. but its hard to argue with foster and tate combining for close to 2300 yards without him. but i agree that casey would be better utilized at TE. kubiaks inability to make adjustments kills this team. he kept casey at fullback when graham was injured. didnt we just trade for a fullback in clutts?? why not use him more and keep casey at TE..

EllisUnit
12-24-2012, 07:40 PM
James Casey is a versatile player....but I dont think he should be our Fullback. I think Kubiak/Smith made a mistake on this one. I think he should be playing tight end myself.....not Fullback. He is too tall for the position. You need someone more short and stout....like Vickers.....Leach (should have never let him go.....). I just think that is part of the problem with the running game the fullback postion.
Noone has brought this up but I do think this has something to do with the problems with the running game. The fullback position.

Kubiak wanted to get more options for Schuab in the passing game and made the choice to go with Casey over bringing back Vickers or Norris as well.

Maybe Kubiak Smith are wrong on this one. I think so.

I want James Casey on offense......tight end...but not as our Fullback. I have seen enough.....
Thats not the only problem with the offense...but it is one of them.

Get a true Fullback back in here Gary or Rick....please......

We have a damn FB on the Roster. A pure FB. You will only see him when the 2nd string plays. Instead we now put AJ and KW as Fb then motion them to "try" to fool defenses. And boy are they fooled :kitten:

Hervoyel
12-24-2012, 07:51 PM
letting leach was not a good move, as he was a great fullback. but its hard to argue with foster and tate combining for close to 2300 yards without him. but i agree that casey would be better utilized at TE. kubiaks inability to make adjustments kills this team. he kept casey at fullback when graham was injured. didnt we just trade for a fullback in clutts?? why not use him more and keep casey at TE..

I think it's easy to argue with it. Most Sundays you don't miss him. Most of the game you don't miss him. Most of those 2300 yards you don't miss him. When you absolutely know you need 1 yard to keep the drive alive and everybody on the field knows who is getting the ball you miss him. Against the good teams you miss him. When it's first and goal you miss him.

Letting Vonta Leach go made the Texans a softer team and they couldn't afford to get any softer.

Rey
12-24-2012, 08:03 PM
We have a thumping full back on the roster. Why kubiak doesn't use him is anyones guess.

I don't understand why Casey isn't used more as a weapon.

One of the players needs to start a twitter called shyt my coach does.

EllisUnit
12-24-2012, 08:05 PM
We have a thumping full back on the roster. Why kubiak doesn't use him is anyones guess.

I don't understand why Casey isn't used more as a weapon.

One of the players needs to start a twitter called shyt my coach does.

That thumping FB does play when we pull all the starters. Its funny cause in the Pats game we only had 1 TE and 1 FB with the starters, but moved AJ to FB and motioned him to "FOOL" the defense HAHAH. And then at the end of the game when Yates went in Casey went to TE and we put the other FB in at FB.

Kubiaks thinking blows my mind. Makes you say

"What the **** is he thinking" every single time.

CloakNNNdagger
12-24-2012, 08:13 PM
I've said this ever since they got rid of Leach. Body type, strength, leverage and skill sets are worlds apart.

Leach is FB

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2916933379_ff1ede96f7.jpg

Casey is a TE

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1210/nfl-fantasy-football-sleeper-picks-week-6/images/james-casey.jpg

dtran04
12-24-2012, 08:17 PM
Fixing the RG and RT are way more important at this time. This team really doesn't use the FB position anymore.

Premier
12-25-2012, 01:23 AM
I've said this ever since they got rid of Leach. Body type, strength, leverage and skill sets are worlds apart.

Leach is FB

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2916933379_ff1ede96f7.jpg



http://www.fantasyfootballchallenge.com/images/player_photos/bears-fullback-tyler-clutts-against-detroit-lions.jpg

Premier
12-25-2012, 01:41 AM
I think it's easy to argue with it. Most Sundays you don't miss him. Most of the game you don't miss him. Most of those 2300 yards you don't miss him. When you absolutely know you need 1 yard to keep the drive alive and everybody on the field knows who is getting the ball you miss him. Against the good teams you miss him. When it's first and goal you miss him.

Letting Vonta Leach go made the Texans a softer team and they couldn't afford to get any softer.

youre right, i remember a stat from 2010 about the texans being 16/16 running on 3rd & 1. i guess i forget about his importance when were trying to eat clock as we never played with leads in 2010. the thing is, it shouldnt be that hard to replace a guy like vonta, there has to be tons of guys floating around this league that are of the same build and their sole mission is to lay people out. we replaced him with a TE. we need a bruiser, we have a guy on our roster who fits that bill in clutts.. i really thought jason ford could have made an impact, that guy was built like a tank. he just looked like a fullback, but he was cut before preseason..

Tailgate
12-25-2012, 07:26 AM
fixing the rg and rt are way more important at this time. This team really doesn't use the fb position anymore.

rg,rt,lb,lb,lb,wr,nt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fb

powda
12-25-2012, 08:29 AM
You might recall casey had what we thought was a breakout game last year. Then he got hurt for a stretch of games followed by schaub getting hurt. When yates came in we were lead to believe the "casey part of the playbook" was not so familiar to yates and we wouldn't see him utilized. Well, a whole season later with a healthy schaub we still havent seen casey utilized. People here were excited about the match up problems casey presented for linebackers. Casey IS an h-back. He's not a full back or a tightend. Instead of using him as an h-back, kubiak has stubbornly tried to force a square peg into a round hole. If casey is not going to be used more as a pass catcher why is he here? Just go out and get a more traditional full back. I think the guy is every bit the weapon any #3 wr we have.

It's dumb we havent used him properly excluding 1 game in the 3-4 years the guy has been here.

HJam72
12-25-2012, 08:31 AM
You might recall casey had what we thought was a breakout game last year. Then he got hurt for a stretch of games followed by schaub getting hurt. When yates came in we were lead to believe the "casey part of the playbook" was not so familiar to yates and we wouldn't see him utilized. Well, a whole season later with a healthy schaub we still havent seen casey utilized. People here were excited about the match up problems casey presented for linebackers. Casey IS an h-back. He's not a full back or a tightend. Instead of using him as an h-back, kubiak has stubbornly tried to force a square peg into a round hole. If casey is not going to be used more as a pass catcher why is he here? Just go out and get a more traditional full back. I think the guy is every bit the weapon any #3 wr we have.

It's dumb we havent used him properly excluding 1 game in the 3-4 years the guy has been here.


Part of me is hoping that this (Casey catching passes) is what Kubiak is holding back for the playoffs. Safeties not letting anybody get behind them sounds good to me for the D.

Mr teX
12-25-2012, 09:02 AM
Casey's playing fullback simply b/c it gets him on the field nearly every play regardless of formation and it adds versatility to what we can do if we shift a little. Casey we can send across the middle and in the deep seam if we needed to. Leach wasn't giving us that option; the most we could do with him in the passing game is send him out to the flats where he'd catch his little pass for a 3 yard gain every 2 or 3 games.

If Casey played strictly TE, dude wouldn't be getting on the field nearly as much b/c his in-line blocking skills aren't that great and his hands aren't that much better than graham's......but graham's in-line blocking is much better than Casey's...

I do feel kubes under utilizes him though...probably need to call a few more plays for him in the passing game and give schaub a few more outlet throws other than just Arian.

CloakNNNdagger
12-25-2012, 09:33 AM
Casey's playing fullback simply b/c it gets him on the field nearly every play regardless of formation and it adds versatility to what we can do if we shift a little. Casey we can send across the middle and in the deep seam if we needed to. Leach wasn't giving us that option; the most we could do with him in the passing game is send him out to the flats where he'd catch his little pass for a 3 yard gain every 2 or 3 games.

If Casey played strictly TE, dude wouldn't be getting on the field nearly as much b/c his in-line blocking skills aren't that great and his hands aren't that much better than graham's......but graham's in-line blocking is much better than Casey's...

I do feel kubes under utilizes him though...probably need to call a few more plays for him in the passing game and give schaub a few more outlet throws other than just Arian.


32 receptions in 15 games hardly seems like a passing weapon in good exchange for a lead "horse."

Mr teX
12-25-2012, 11:10 AM
32 receptions in 15 games hardly seems like a passing weapon in good exchange for a lead "horse."


I agree...but graham's cutting into what casey might be doing in the passing game as well...they're stats are nearly identical this year; and graham's missed 2 games. Thats 6 TD's and about 700 yds recieving which isnt bad at all. arian's also had no problems getting his TD's this year..he's led the league pretty much all year so not sure how much leach is really missed.


in all likelihood you'd need to part with 1 of these guys for leach to be here and be an integral part of the offense....and personally, i'd prefer casey be the odd guy out. graham's already shown that he's just as viable an option in the passing game.

The other problem is that that lead horse is basically an extinct position these days and more often than not, it limits an offense and isn't worth the roster spot..My personal opinion is that kubes has had to have graham stay in and help out with blocking on the right side moreso than he probably envisioned b/ c newton and company have been getting owned a large portion of the times they've been left solo.

You also have to wonder how much leach would help in the running game this year considering that our o-line isnt the same o-line from the years he was here; they haven't played as well as they did last year either.

I surmise that its a little bit of both.

CloakNNNdagger
12-25-2012, 12:21 PM
Then why did we even bother getting Clutts? As a STs player only without dual role? Thought that was a philosophy that was to be avoided.

Mr teX
12-25-2012, 12:29 PM
Clutts has a dual role...ST and fullback....doesnt mean he has to start to fulfill his dual role. Every guy on ST is a back up at some position.

Norg
12-25-2012, 12:34 PM
leech was good but not worth all that money what was it 8 mill

u dont build your team that way paying a FB that much

CloakNNNdagger
12-25-2012, 03:14 PM
Clutts has a dual role...ST and fullback....doesnt mean he has to start to fulfill his dual role. Every guy on ST is a back up at some position.

How often have you even seen Clutts at FB?

EllisUnit
12-25-2012, 05:59 PM
How often have you even seen Clutts at FB?

After we pull the starters :kitten:

ArlingtonTexan
12-25-2012, 06:21 PM
32 receptions in 15 games hardly seems like a passing weapon in good exchange for a lead "horse."

I think this one of the keys, it is okay to downgrade one aspect if your going to highlight the replacing player's other aspect. Essetially, Casey who is best as passing game mismatch is catching on average two and maybe 3 passes a game. while better than leach, not enough to counter the lesser blocking. If we were talking about 50-55 catches for the year then teams would be accounting for Casey. (and yes that is really only a pass or two more a game).

rush2112mn
12-25-2012, 06:46 PM
Then why did we even bother getting Clutts? As a STs player only without dual role? Thought that was a philosophy that was to be avoided.

I had forgot about clutts....probaly cause I had not seen him much on the field.

It actually surprised me that Kubiak would put Casey at fullback and sacrifice his running attack for a few passes to Casey. I never really bought into Kubiak's reason for doing it. I think Casey was a better tight end option myself.

I think if the Texans do not go far in the playoffs......Kubiak and Smith need to be called out on the Fullback issue because it is vital to the run game....you need that battering ram....not a tight end pretending to be a fullback so Kubiak could add more passing plays to the playbook and subtract some of the running attack.

This is not the only issue with the running attack ...but it is a issue that nobody is really talking about.

Thanks for the input on this topic to everyone who has responded......

EllisUnit
12-25-2012, 08:40 PM
We have AJ and KW at FB a lot now. Wow we are fooling teams by doing that, Kubiaks creativness to fool a defense is soooooo "amazing" :toropalm:

DocBar
12-25-2012, 10:33 PM
leech was good but not worth all that money what was it 8 mill

u dont build your team that way paying a FB that much

I'd rather see Winston at $5mil. than Leech. I think the Texans maybe screwed the pooch letting both Winston and Briseil get away. Better money spent on Breseil than Winston, though.

Scooter
12-26-2012, 01:05 AM
Absolutely they made a mistake. Letting Leach go and keeping Jacoby Jones was a huge mistake and it continues to bite us in the ass over and over again. Foster behind Leach was a beast. Foster without him has been less beastly in most every way imaginable.

We need to find a legitimate replacement for Vonta Leach. Vickers wasn't it and Casey isn't it either.

every team has their regrets, but you hit it on the head - this was THE big misstep for our front office. we had a choice, and kubiak (predictably) went with the more versatile player who had shown to be a pet project, instead of the soon to be overpriced all-pro. considering their salaries werent far apart, keeping the all-pro should've been obvious. instead we lose a good player, get killed by a bad one, and are ruining casey because of it.

infantrycak
12-26-2012, 01:29 AM
considering their salaries werent far apart, keeping the all-pro should've been obvious..

Just to be clear - four years of Casey's contract is about one half a year for Leach.

Scooter
12-26-2012, 01:50 AM
Just to be clear - four years of Casey's contract is about one half a year for Leach.

i meant leach and jacoby, sorry i was the one that wasnt clear

thunderkyss
12-26-2012, 03:05 AM
You might recall casey had what we thought was a breakout game last year. Then he got hurt for a stretch of games followed by schaub getting hurt. When yates came in we were lead to believe the "casey part of the playbook" was not so familiar to yates and we wouldn't see him utilized. Well, a whole season later with a healthy schaub we still havent seen casey utilized. People here were excited about the match up problems casey presented for linebackers. Casey IS an h-back. He's not a full back or a tightend. Instead of using him as an h-back, kubiak has stubbornly tried to force a square peg into a round hole. If casey is not going to be used more as a pass catcher why is he here? Just go out and get a more traditional full back. I think the guy is every bit the weapon any #3 wr we have.

It's dumb we havent used him properly excluding 1 game in the 3-4 years the guy has been here.

This, more or less. I don't think we're missing Leach. If we had LBs shooting the gap stoping Foster, maybe. But most of those were DTs or we were in a one back set anyway.

But we've got so many versatile pieces on offense, yet we don't see much of it on GameDay.

The Andre to FB thing was something we've been doing off & on for the last 3 years. It was one of those formation things Gary did that made it difficult for the defense to sort out before the snap. Belichick used the same idea against us with Welker. If it "didn't work" for us, it probably had more to do with the time it took us to break the huddle, get to the line, then snap the ball. To "work" we need to get to the line & snap the ball quickly.

I watched the Denver game again. & the guy that stood out to me, was Walter. Schaub made two beautiful 50 yard passes that hit his receivers in stride for TDs; one to Andre & one to KDub. KDub had 3 catches for 73 yards. But he also showed up in the run game... like a blocking TE.

So I was thinking, KDub might be smallish, but he plays bigger as a blocker. He's actually our third TE. To me, he's more TE than WR anyway.

Schaub completed 17 passes to 8 different receivers including LeStar (1), Martin (2), & Casey (3)

But I can think of an infinite combination of routes & formations moving Walter & Casey around that should give defenses fits, including lining Walter up as a FB/Hback & Casey in the slot or split wide with someone else in the slot.

We're never going to run a play where Andre releases from the FB position at the snap. Walter on the other hand, we could run or pass from that formation.

When Graham was out of the game, Casey's roll didn't change any. He played mostly FB, some Hback & some TE like he normally does. We brought Harris in as an extra TE, but no one had to account for him as a receiver. Instead, we should have used KDub as that third TE & got Martin & LeStar more involved as our 2 & 3 receivers.

El Tejano
12-26-2012, 08:44 AM
letting leach was not a good move, as he was a great fullback. but its hard to argue with foster and tate combining for close to 2300 yards without him. but i agree that casey would be better utilized at TE. kubiaks inability to make adjustments kills this team. he kept casey at fullback when graham was injured. didnt we just trade for a fullback in clutts?? why not use him more and keep casey at TE..

Especially since Graham is such a vital part of our offense all of a sudden...:kitten:

beerlover
12-26-2012, 08:50 AM
secret is out: stop Texan ground game & dare them to beat you through the air. Until Schaub & someone else not named Andre Johnson can hurt another defense with big plays, teams will continue to load the box, FB or not. Why not use two TE sets Daniels/Graham (to block/pick up blitz to be sure Matt is clean before releasing) then line Casey/Posey or Martin in slot AJ & Lestar outside? spread defense out keeping them, well defensive.....:cool:

eriadoc
12-26-2012, 08:52 AM
I honestly don't see Casey getting Foster stopped very much. He leads into the hole just fine, while Foster's getting tripped up in the backfield by the guy that the right side of the line let through.