PDA

View Full Version : James Harrison Just Doesn't Get It


CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2012, 10:38 AM
Nor, after reading this, is it likely he ever will.


James Harrison: I’ve lowered my target, now I hit guys in the knees (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/21/james-harrison-ive-lowered-my-target-now-i-hit-guys-in-the-knees/)

Unfortunately for the Steelers’ opponents, that message isn’t necessarily one that’s going to make them any safer. Harrison said on Mike and Mike in the Morning that now instead of trying to hit players in the head, he’ll hit them in the knees.

“I’ve really lowered my target area to where it’s down around the knees,” Harrison said. “Situations come along where you could tackle the guy high. I don’t do that anymore. I tackle the guy low.”

Harrison said, however, that he doesn’t think that makes life any easier on opposing players. Harrison referenced his hit to the knee of Broncos receiver Eric Decker in last year’s playoffs, a hit that caused Decker to suffer a sprained MCL, as the kind of hit he makes now that he wouldn’t have made before he was suspended last season — and a hit that Harrison doesn’t think makes the game any safer.

“I could have tackled him high, but if I had hit him high, I probably would have gotten a helmet-to-helmet or something and gotten fined,” Harrison said. “So I hit him low and strained his MCL. . . . They’re saying it’s a life-threatening injury to hit a guy in the head and he gets a concussion and so on and so forth, but I think a life-threatening injury is to go low on a guy and blow out his ACL or whatever, and he’s not able to come back the way he was before. Now he can’t make a living, he can’t feed his family, he can’t do what he does. That’s life-threatening to me.”

Dread-Head
12-21-2012, 10:42 AM
He WAS aiming for the body and a-holes like Colt McCoy were lowering their heads into him...he can't win for losing.

Say Watt
12-21-2012, 12:25 PM
He WAS aiming for the body and a-holes like Colt McCoy were lowering their heads into him...he can't win for losing.

Seriously?!? You are actually defending this dumbass? Last I checked, the area between the thighs and neck is a bigger target than the head or knees.

It sure seems like someone else has taken over your account because the amount of wtf comments you have made over the last few months far exceeds anything you said over the previous 6-7 years I have been on here.

eriadoc
12-21-2012, 12:41 PM
Seriously?!? You are actually defending this dumbass? Last I checked, the area between the thighs and neck is a bigger target than the head or knees.

It sure seems like someone else has taken over your account because the amount of wtf comments you have made over the last few months far exceeds anything you said over the previous 6-7 years I have been on here.

I'm not defending Harrison or speaking for Dread, but I'll say your bolded comment isn't really true. When the ball carrier gets low in anticipation of a hit, the squared up area to hit the guy is pretty close to knees and head. Harrison's been dinged on that BS before, and it's a constant topic of complaint among the fans. Defensive players shouldn't be fined for aiming at the torso and catching the guy's head when the guy lowers his head. But it happens all the time now. So while I don't condone what Harrison is saying, I do understand it. That's not to say that Harrison hasn't earned his rep. He's done plenty of headhunting.

The person to be pissed off at is Goodell, not Harrison.

eriadoc
12-21-2012, 12:46 PM
Here's an exaple that illustrates both why Harrison has the rep he has and the failure of the application of the rule at the same time:

http://media.cleveland.com/plutoblog_impact/photo/8972990-large.jpg

Ignore for a minute where Harrison actually hit Massaquoi and look at Massaquoi. Where would you hit him? It's easy to say that 6-inch sliver right around his belt line, but A.) do that at full speed when both of you are moving, and B.) get that low int he first place. It's not easy.

The zero tolerance fines are just as much BS as Harrison's MO.

Double Barrel
12-21-2012, 02:19 PM
A guy with Harrison's reputation and history should just keep his mouth shut. He's asking for extra scrutiny with these type of comments.

NitroGSXR
12-21-2012, 02:54 PM
GOOD FOR HIM for speaking up. He's RIGHT!

Double Barrel
12-21-2012, 03:02 PM
I think I understand the point that he's trying to make, but when you put two of his quotes together, it makes him look like a jackass.

"I think a life-threatening injury is to go low on a guy and blow out his ACL or whatever, and he’s not able to come back the way he was before."

---------

“I’ve really lowered my target area to where it’s down around the knees”

infantrycak
12-21-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm not defending Harrison or speaking for Dread, but I'll say your bolded comment isn't really true. When the ball carrier gets low in anticipation of a hit, the squared up area to hit the guy is pretty close to knees and head. Harrison's been dinged on that BS before, and it's a constant topic of complaint among the fans. Defensive players shouldn't be fined for aiming at the torso and catching the guy's head when the guy lowers his head. But it happens all the time now. So while I don't condone what Harrison is saying, I do understand it. That's not to say that Harrison hasn't earned his rep. He's done plenty of headhunting.

Yeah the bolded is true in the great majority of tackles. Harrison's statement is stupid. People get form tackled all the time, the vast majority of the time (well in the target area although form has been lost). Yes there are examples like yours where the target area shrinks.

I am not sure how to craft the rule but I think there should be some consideration for (a) people lowering their heads and creating the contact and (b) people having initial contact which whips someones head into helmet to helmet contact.

I will say I think the NFL has discussed a good distinction on the issue (they f'd it up on Watt) - form tackling v. trying to play lawn dart.

Say Watt
12-21-2012, 03:22 PM
I'm not defending Harrison or speaking for Dread, but I'll say your bolded comment isn't really true. When the ball carrier gets low in anticipation of a hit, the squared up area to hit the guy is pretty close to knees and head. Harrison's been dinged on that BS before, and it's a constant topic of complaint among the fans. Defensive players shouldn't be fined for aiming at the torso and catching the guy's head when the guy lowers his head. But it happens all the time now. So while I don't condone what Harrison is saying, I do understand it. That's not to say that Harrison hasn't earned his rep. He's done plenty of headhunting.

The person to be pissed off at is Goodell, not Harrison.

Here's an exaple that illustrates both why Harrison has the rep he has and the failure of the application of the rule at the same time:

http://media.cleveland.com/plutoblog_impact/photo/8972990-large.jpg

Ignore for a minute where Harrison actually hit Massaquoi and look at Massaquoi. Where would you hit him? It's easy to say that 6-inch sliver right around his belt line, but A.) do that at full speed when both of you are moving, and B.) get that low int he first place. It's not easy.

The zero tolerance fines are just as much BS as Harrison's MO.

Good, fair points made. In cases like the image above, you are correct. This is why if the NFL is going to continue going down this road, they have got to begin making a distinction between a player intentionally going for the head and a player ducking his own head into a hit. But going for a guy's knees simply is not the answer.

Harrison is a piece of ****, and I would have zero problems if the guy got his own knees taken out and had to be carried off on a stretcher. Like DB stated, you can't intentionally take out a guy's knees when you are already admitting that hitting a guy in the knees is an easy way to end a career.

I hate Goodell as much as the next guy, but Harrison is a punk.

Say Watt
12-21-2012, 03:23 PM
Yeah the bolded is true in the great majority of tackles. Harrison's statement is stupid. People get form tackled all the time, the vast majority of the time (well in the target area although form has been lost). Yes there are examples like yours where the target area shrinks.

I am not sure how to craft the rule but I think there should be some consideration for (a) people lowering their heads and creating the contact and (b) people having initial contact which whips someones head into helmet to helmet contact.

I will say I think the NFL has discussed a good distinction on the issue (they f'd it up on Watt) - form tackling v. trying to play lawn dart.

Yes, they certainly f'd it up royally with Watt, but James Harrison is no JJ Watt.

Rey
12-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Harrison is not that big of a guy...height wise...What is he like 5'11" maybe 6"??

I'm not surprised he aims for legs not.

infantrycak
12-21-2012, 03:49 PM
Harrison is not that big of a guy...height wise...What is he like 5'11" maybe 6"??

I'm not surprised he aims for legs not.

He is 6' but c'mon, lame attempt at an excuse. The dude is known for head shots and now 6' is too short to tackle above the knees. Plus his quote shows he has intent rather than physical limitation.

Rey
12-21-2012, 04:17 PM
He is 6' but c'mon, lame attempt at an excuse. The dude is known for head shots and now 6' is too short to tackle above the knees. Plus his quote shows he has intent rather than physical limitation.

My point was that he's kind of a little dude..length wise...

Probably harder for him to make a good waist tackle vs. someone like JJ Watt...Harrison is a compact fella...It's probably more natural for him to coil and go through a ball carrier than trying to make form tackles on everyone.

He's out in space a bunch, so it makes sense to me that he'd go for a defenders legs since he cant shock guys up top anymore. Going for guys legs has probably been easier for him all along, but there is kind of an unwritten thing where you don't take a guys legs out with big hits...

If guys were standing straight up and down and running like Forest Gump I think we'd see a lot more form tackles...


I'm 6'4" and solidly built. If I were trying to tackle myself, not way am I aiming for my waist.

When the Texans play Peterson this weekend see how many players are aiming for his waist once he gets past the line...They are going to be going for his legs a bunch...He's too big and strong to try and tackle him around his waist for most players...

infantrycak
12-21-2012, 04:36 PM
My point was that he's kind of a little dude..length wise...

Probably harder for him to make a good waist tackle vs. someone like JJ Watt...Harrison is a compact fella...It's probably more natural for him to coil and go through a ball carrier than trying to make form tackles on everyone.

Nothing you are saying makes any sense. First off we are talking about a four foot target here from thigh pads to shoulders and you are trying to make some sort of major argument out of a few inches of height. Second, if anything JJ being one of the taller people in the league makes it harder for him to get down.

He's out in space a bunch, so it makes sense to me that he'd go for a defenders legs since he cant shock guys up top anymore. Going for guys legs has probably been easier for him all along, but there is kind of an unwritten thing where you don't take a guys legs out with big hits...

If guys were standing straight up and down and running like Forest Gump I think we'd see a lot more form tackles...

When the Texans play Peterson this weekend see how many players are aiming for his waist once he gets past the line...They are going to be going for his legs a bunch...He's too big and strong to try and tackle him around his waist for most players...

Yeah I'll be looking for all those below the thigh pad tackle attempts. You're cheating your argument here referring to waist. Harrison specifically said knee. The only time players go that low is on desperation lunges or Jared Allen/Harrison attempts to injure. But hell don't trust me and don't wait for the weekend. Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3AgX-v4Kg)

It is obvious the great majority of tackles are not made at knee level other than lunges. Hell you are even clearly wrong on people aiming below the waist.

Rey
12-21-2012, 05:21 PM
It is obvious the great majority of tackles are not made at knee level other than lunges. Hell you are even clearly wrong on people aiming below the waist.

That's a highlight video so I'm guessing a lot of those tackle attempts are unsuccessful. Can't watch the video right now. What I said was that tackling a guy low is easier to bring him down than tackling him around his waist.

infantrycak
12-21-2012, 06:10 PM
That's a highlight video so I'm guessing a lot of those tackle attempts are unsuccessful.

Which totally misses the point - where NFL players actually attempt to tackle RB's or AP in comparison to your assertion. You show me a bunch of non-lunging knee tackles and we can talk.

thunderkyss
12-21-2012, 06:39 PM
I think the rule is about as good as you can get it. Guys like Harrison are just making it harder for the game to evolve. The refs & the comp committee need to get better on how it's called/enforced, but no hits to the head of the QB.... makes sense. No hits to the heads of defenseless receivers, makes sense to me.

They made a bunch of bad calls last weekend.... Kj's hit to Wayne was not to his helmet. Joseph's hit to Wayne was. Antonio got fined for a hit to the head of Luck. He didn't try to hit him in the head, but he did. Antonio got the sack, the game went on, fine was levied the next day.

I think I like that approach much better than giving the other team 15 yards for a questionable hit. I know it's hard to tell at full speed, but I thin they should mark every questionable hit, review them later, then levy fines.

They should also have a representative randomly spend a week with each team to see what kind of program they have instructing players not to hit the heads of QBs & defenseless receivers. What kind of drills they run. Is it really being taught.

Texecutioner
12-21-2012, 07:27 PM
Seriously?!? You are actually defending this dumbass? Last I checked, the area between the thighs and neck is a bigger target than the head or knees.

It sure seems like someone else has taken over your account because the amount of wtf comments you have made over the last few months far exceeds anything you said over the previous 6-7 years I have been on here.

Harrison is one of the dirtiest scumbag players in the league, and even more so as a person. Total scumbag. I won't give him any benefit of the doubt and I have no doubts what so ever that he tries to hurt players. I wouldn't even be surprised if he has tried to hurt his own teammates in practice out of his own desires.

The OP is right. He just doesn't get it. But that's because he's stupid, and some people's brain dysfunction can't be fixed. Harrison is one of them.

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2012, 08:02 PM
Many of us may have some serious questions and strong criticisms as to where Goodell and the NFL are taking the game........and for what motivations. However, our opinions are usually tethered by a semblance of maturity.

In a 2011 MEN'S JOURNAL article entitled Confessions of an NFL Hitman (http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman-20120504), Harrison was quoted as using the terms "crook," "devil," "stupid," "puppet" and "dictator" to describe Goodell. He also said: "If that man was on fire and I had to (urinate) to put him out, I wouldn't do it. I hate him and will never respect him."

If you have never read the interview and/or you have any doubts of Harrison's pathologic character, you might read the article in its entirety. The title article picture hints to what lies beneath.

http://assets.mensjournal.com/img/article/confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman/298_298_confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman.jpg

ensign_lee
12-23-2012, 11:50 PM
Many of us may have some serious questions and strong criticisms as to where Goodell and the NFL are taking the game........and for what motivations. However, our opinions are usually tethered by a semblance of maturity.

In a 2011 MEN'S JOURNAL article entitled Confessions of an NFL Hitman (http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman-20120504), Harrison was quoted as using the terms "crook," "devil," "stupid," "puppet" and "dictator" to describe Goodell. He also said: "If that man was on fire and I had to (urinate) to put him out, I wouldn't do it. I hate him and will never respect him."

If you have never read the interview and/or you have any doubts of Harrison's pathologic character, you might read the article in its entirety. The title article picture hints to what lies beneath.

http://assets.mensjournal.com/img/article/confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman/298_298_confessions-of-an-nfl-hitman.jpg

except that Harrison is totally right... Goodell *is* ruining the NFL. I've called and thought much worse of him.

Norg
12-24-2012, 12:17 AM
ok if i was a Defensive player i would be hamming for the kness all day long they pretty much have no choice these days

infantrycak
12-24-2012, 01:24 AM
When the Texans play Peterson this weekend see how many players are aiming for his waist once he gets past the line...They are going to be going for his legs a bunch...He's too big and strong to try and tackle him around his waist for most players...

Watched it as I do every Texans game and the vast, vast majority of tackles were aimed shoulders to thigh pads even by guys like Quin who are not as big as him. Going for the knees is crap both from reality of what happens and sportsmanship. In doing so, while unsuccessful in the game, the Texans broke Peterson's streak of hundred yard games, probably ended his hopes of breaking the yardage record and held him to his season lowest 3.4 ypc.

Rey
12-24-2012, 07:30 AM
Watched it as I do every Texans game and the vast, vast majority of tackles were aimed shoulders to thigh pads even by guys like Quin who are not as big as him. Going for the knees is crap both from reality of what happens and sportsmanship. In doing so, while unsuccessful in the game, the Texans broke Peterson's streak of hundred yard games, probably ended his hopes of breaking the yardage record and held him to his season lowest 3.4 ypc.

Is the thigh not a part of the leg?

I said there weren't going to be a bunch of people going for his waist.

My quote was accurate.

And I watched the Harrison hit. He didn't have to hit that wr like that. The guy didn't even see him. Not what I'd call a good, clean hit. Looked like he was trying to injure the guy.

infantrycak
12-24-2012, 10:40 AM
Is the thigh not a part of the leg?

I said there weren't going to be a bunch of people going for his waist.

My quote was accurate.

Are you trying to crawfish your statement into "exactly at the waist?"

Your quote was not accurate. Fine if you want to try to use the waist as some dividing line - the great majority of tackles were at or above the waist.

To return to the original discussion it is stupid to act like or say if you can't hit them in the head you have to hit them in the knees.

Rey
12-24-2012, 11:48 AM
Are you trying to crawfish your statement into "exactly at the waist?"

Your quote was not accurate. Fine if you want to try to use the waist as some dividing line - the great majority of tackles were at or above the waist.

To return to the original discussion it is stupid to act like or say if you can't hit them in the head you have to hit them in the knees.

Find me where I said hit someone in the head. No need to make things up.


I said up high, or down low in the legs. End of discussion. My quote was exactly on point. People are not making a bunch of tackles around peoples waist.

silvrhand
12-25-2012, 03:29 PM
What do you expect them to start doing, I said that from the get go when they stopped allowing from the waist up hits, which is basically what happens now, any big hit above the waste gets a flag/fine.

They'll move below the waist, and well the legs will start taking a beating now. Not like they really have a choice anymore.

steelbtexan
12-25-2012, 06:25 PM
WR's fear going across the middle because of the way Harrison plays.

Mission accomplished

infantrycak
12-25-2012, 06:36 PM
Find me where I said hit someone in the head. No need to make things up.

Try following the thread topic and flow. The whole point was Harrison saying if he can't hit in the head he is going to go for the knees.

I said that from the get go when they stopped allowing from the waist up hits, which is basically what happens now, any big hit above the waste gets a flag/fine.

Totally incorrect. There is no rule against hits above the waist, in fact the majority are above the waist. There isn't even a ban on hitting the head - just certain circumstances.

silvrhand
12-27-2012, 10:13 AM
Try following the thread topic and flow. The whole point was Harrison saying if he can't hit in the head he is going to go for the knees.



Totally incorrect. There is no rule against hits above the waist, in fact the majority are above the waist. There isn't even a ban on hitting the head - just certain circumstances.

But if someone ducks and you hit them hard enough to snap back their head then you are going to get fined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guNB1nQIsH4

That was a completely legal hit yet still flagged.

infantrycak
12-27-2012, 12:52 PM
But if someone ducks and you hit them hard enough to snap back their head then you are going to get fined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guNB1nQIsH4

That was a completely legal hit yet still flagged.

There is clear helmet to helmet contact. In addition his shoulder strikes his helmet. That was not a legal hit. Look up the defenseless player rule. Now if he had hit him about six inches lower it would have been fine.

By the way, hard hits from the front result in the head snapping forward. The head being hit results in it snapping back.

silvrhand
12-28-2012, 10:20 AM
There is clear helmet to helmet contact. In addition his shoulder strikes his helmet. That was not a legal hit. Look up the defenseless player rule. Now if he had hit him about six inches lower it would have been fine.

By the way, hard hits from the front result in the head snapping forward. The head being hit results in it snapping back.

Disagree, slowing frame to frame you can clearly see that he is hitting the right shoulder of vernon with his helmet, and his shoulder is on the ball, that's almost textbook for dislodging someone from the ball.

KJ fined as well no, another 20k fine that totally is inconsistent.

infantrycak
12-28-2012, 04:43 PM
Disagree, slowing frame to frame you can clearly see that he is hitting the right shoulder of vernon with his helmet, and his shoulder is on the ball, that's almost textbook for dislodging someone from the ball.

KJ fined as well no, another 20k fine that totally is inconsistent.

What delusional anti-Goodell world are you living in? The helmets clearly hit. I'm not saying I love the rule and in fact have criticized it but that under the current rules is an obviously illegal hit.

NitroGSXR
12-28-2012, 04:59 PM
What delusional anti-Goodell world are you living in? The helmets clearly hit. I'm not saying I love the rule and in fact have criticized it but that under the current rules is an obviously illegal hit.

I must need glasses because I didn't see them hit either. It's pretty durn close but after watching carefully... it does not appear to me that any helmets touched each other. Can you hear them collide in the video?

infantrycak
12-28-2012, 06:38 PM
I must need glasses because I didn't see them hit either. It's pretty durn close but after watching carefully... it does not appear to me that any helmets touched each other. Can you hear them collide in the video?

Look at the 20 second mark of the video. I don't judge on the sound because I have no idea who is editing. But look at the motion of the head. This is physics 101. Actually it appears clear to me the helmets contact, but.... If the head is unimpeded and the torso is impacted the head will continue in the direction of movement i.e. snap forward. If the head is impacted it may go in the opposite direction. His head was impacted and that is a violation of the rules as they stand.

silvrhand
12-28-2012, 08:39 PM
Look at the 20 second mark of the video. I don't judge on the sound because I have no idea who is editing. But look at the motion of the head. This is physics 101. Actually it appears clear to me the helmets contact, but.... If the head is unimpeded and the torso is impacted the head will continue in the direction of movement i.e. snap forward. If the head is impacted it may go in the opposite direction. His head was impacted and that is a violation of the rules as they stand.

I would attach a screenshot but for some reason I cant not attach anything.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117241256102019616106/albums/5262627567772814225/5827192384189739122

infantrycak
12-28-2012, 09:22 PM
I would attach a screenshot but for some reason I cant not attach anything.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117241256102019616106/albums/5262627567772814225/5827192384189739122

So you showed a picture where the DB is clearly about to hit him in the facemask/side of the helmet? That is defined as illegal right now. You may not like it but it is spelled out illegal. As I said, six inches lower is totally legal. You keep ignoring the basic physics of the situation. If your body but not your head are impacted the head goes toward the impact. When the opposite happens, the head was impacted.

silvrhand
12-30-2012, 02:49 PM
So you showed a picture where the DB is clearly about to hit him in the facemask/side of the helmet? That is defined as illegal right now. You may not like it but it is spelled out illegal. As I said, six inches lower is totally legal. You keep ignoring the basic physics of the situation. If your body but not your head are impacted the head goes toward the impact. When the opposite happens, the head was impacted.

He's already made contact, not sure if you are watching the same video.