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amazing80
12-18-2012, 07:41 PM
Special teams had been awful this season (this thread is probably bad timing since BB got a blocked punt/TD) and the mental errors are over whelming. Not to mention the missed fgs and terrible punts. Do you think the terrible play could cost Joe his job? I think it should to show accountability, but I am sure others will point to player specifics rather than coaching (Graham and Jones) but I still think since the NFL changed their kickoff blocking rules, Joe has been terrible and we have progressively gotten worse, while the talent on our team has been better. This leads me to believe his adapting to the new rules is lacking and proven (over several seasons now) he cannot adapt and over come this......thoughts?

2slik4u
12-18-2012, 08:13 PM
Special teams had been awful this season (this thread is probably bad timing since BB got a blocked punt/TD) and the mental errors are over whelming. Not to mention the missed fgs and terrible punts. Do you think the terrible play could cost Joe his job? I think it should to show accountability, but I am sure others will point to player specifics rather than coaching (Graham and Jones) but I still think since the NFL changed their kickoff blocking rules, Joe has been terrible and we have progressively gotten worse, while the talent on our team has been better. This leads me to believe his adapting to the new rules is lacking and proven (over several seasons now) he cannot adapt and over come this......thoughts?

This is nothing new. Everyone knows our special teams sucks and is the biggest weakness on our team. Bramans blocked punt was the result of him being an exceptional special teamer/player. Not Marciano coaching him. At least that's my opinion.

I feel like we continually give kick returners and punt returners unbelievable gains game in and game out. I think that is the mark of bad special teams coaching.

Get him outta here. His time has passed.

run-david-run
12-18-2012, 08:17 PM
I actually think the special teams have been much better since the bye week. I no longer wince every time our punt returner catches a ball in traffic, and Martin has broken a couple good returns.

The coverage has been much better, no TDs since the Jets game.

I don't think there's a whole lot anyone can do about the punter and kicker shanking the ball, that's purely a talent, ie GM, issue.

Not great, but I no longer feel that impending doom.

Also, forgot to mention: we do have way too many special team penalties.

All in all, if we can upgrade in the offseason, go for it, but it's not as big a deal as it was in week 4, imo.

CloakNNNdagger
12-18-2012, 08:32 PM
This is nothing new. Everyone knows our special teams sucks and is the biggest weakness on our team. Bramans blocked punt was the result of him being an exceptional special teamer/player. Not Marciano coaching him. At least that's my opinion.

I feel like we continually give kick returners and punt returners unbelievable gains game in and game out. I think that is the mark of bad special teams coaching.

Get him outta here. His time has passed.

If Marciano deserved credit and a game ball for Braman's blocked punt, then we should have presented him with a big ole



http://guides.bestfatburnersupplements.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/raspberry.jpg



for each of the other twelve games.

MEGA SWATT
12-19-2012, 12:34 AM
This is nothing new. Everyone knows our special teams sucks and is the biggest weakness on our team. Bramans blocked punt was the result of him being an exceptional special teamer/player. Not Marciano coaching him. At least that's my opinion.
I feel like we continually give kick returners and punt returners unbelievable gains game in and game out. I think that is the mark of bad special teams coaching.

Get him outta here. His time has passed.

He said that Marciano coached him on exactly what to do before the play.

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2012, 08:38 AM
He said that Marciano coached him on exactly what to do before the play.

He lined him up on the opposite side that he normally does. After looking at the ST big season picture, you can hardly look at this isolated "genius" coaching move as anything but the "blind squirrel phenomenon."

Big Lou
12-19-2012, 09:57 AM
I actually think the special teams have been much better since the bye week. I no longer wince every time our punt returner catches a ball in traffic, and Martin has broken a couple good returns.

The coverage has been much better, no TDs since the Jets game.

I don't think there's a whole lot anyone can do about the punter and kicker shanking the ball, that's purely a talent, ie GM, issue.

Not great, but I no longer feel that impending doom.

Also, forgot to mention: we do have way too many special team penalties.

All in all, if we can upgrade in the offseason, go for it, but it's not as big a deal as it was in week 4, imo.



I have seen some improvement.

Hell just having a guy that will take a knee 8 yds. deep in the end zone is an improvement. K-Mart has gotten better about making the decision on wether to come out or not. Plus he has been decent on puts as well, with the occasional good return. Either this week or last week he did run backwards if I recall once, and I was about to break the TV.

I have been suprised by D. Jones, his punting has been decent. He's not going to boom it 75 yds., or pin the other team inside the 5 on every punt, but he's been getting the ball down the field. I haven't been watching hang time, so I'm not sure if that is some part of the coverage issues.

Blocks in the back. This team has had an issue with this as long as I can remember. I've seen a couple where the Texans ST were trying to keep a guy from leveling K-Mart, kind of like a G or T holding a defender to keep a QB from getting killed, the live to fight another day move, but most of the blocks in the back are stupid and away from the play. Drives me nuts, he must be a heat of the moment thing. Seems like this is bieng called a lot more through out the NFL, but I see other teams get away with it more. Can't these guys be coached not to block in the back for crying out loud.

Besides coverage, I think kick offs are a weakness. Graham has a noodle leg. How many times has he kicked off and had it go over the kick off return man. Maybe twice, and we'd played a game in Denver for crying out loud. I'm hoping Bullock is the answer. I wish we would have IR'd with the designation to return, not sure of the ramifications of that, but Graham scares me. I could see us getting to the big game in a two minute drive, and it be in his hands, which scares the piss out of me.

2slik4u
12-19-2012, 10:53 AM
Can anyone find a stat category showing opponents average kick return yardage?

I would be interested to see if what I feel like I see is reality or if I just notice the bad ones.

I would be willing to bet we are in the bottom half of the league on oppenents starting field position though.

Double Barrel
12-19-2012, 11:04 AM
If Marciano deserved credit and a game ball for Braman's blocked punt, then we should have presented him with a big ole

Coach Joe did get a game ball from Gary after the Colts game. I just watched Bob Allen's post-game show last night and they showed video of it.

Kubiak loves him some second chances, and Bob loves him some family atmosphere and stability.

They will say the special teams were diluted because players were called up to offensive and defensive positions. I would not be shocked that Joe will be here in 2013.

Exascor
12-19-2012, 11:06 AM
I can forgive the lack of return yardage. I can forgive the poor kick coverage units. Maybe Marciano just doesn't have players that excel on special teams. I can forgive the weak kick offs & lack of a long distance FG kicker. We drafted a kicker to take care of those and he's injured.

I can't forgive the block in the back penalties. It's shocking when we don't get one. That's a problem that should be corrected easily with coaching. This is enough for me to want a change (after the season).

ChampionTexan
12-19-2012, 11:08 AM
Can anyone find a stat category showing opponents average kick return yardage?

I would be interested to see if what I feel like I see is reality or if I just notice the bad ones.

I would be willing to bet we are in the bottom half of the league on oppenents starting field position though.

Here's your stats:

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=KICKING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=KICKOFF_RETURNS_AVERAGE_YARDS&tabSeq=2&season=2012&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false)

And you're right, we're 19th in the league in kick return average at 24.5 yards per return. Even less surprisingly, we're 31st in the league in touchback percentage at 31% ahead of only Buffalo.

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2012, 11:17 AM
I can forgive the lack of return yardage. I can forgive the poor kick coverage units. Maybe Marciano just doesn't have players that excel on special teams. I can forgive the weak kick offs & lack of a long distance FG kicker. We drafted a kicker to take care of those and he's injured.

I can't forgive the block in the back penalties. It's shocking when we don't get one. That's a problem that should be corrected easily with coaching. This is enough for me to want a change (after the season).

Strike that forgiveness for that reason...........Donnie Jones, our punter, was the one coming off of injury. As far as I know our kicker is healthy.........just not very good or reliable.

Exascor
12-19-2012, 11:19 AM
Strike that forgiveness for that reason...........Donnie Jones, our punter, was the one coming off of injury. As far as I know our kicker is healthy.........just not very good or reliable.No sir - we drafted Randy Bullock from A&M to be our kicker. He was injured in the preseason. =)

76Texan
12-19-2012, 11:23 AM
Can anyone find a stat category showing opponents average kick return yardage?

I would be interested to see if what I feel like I see is reality or if I just notice the bad ones.

I would be willing to bet we are in the bottom half of the league on oppenents starting field position though.

From TeamRankings.com and ESPN stats pages (sorry, I don't know how to pull links from my Blackberry) the Texans have pulled into average in these categories (net punting average, net punt return average, net kickoff average on either side).

That's pretty good considering how far back we were at one point in time.

It's not a strength, but it's not a weakness either.

Yesterday
12-19-2012, 11:49 AM
Our special teams have been atrocious this year (lead NFL in ST penalties. Also, our Kicker has NO leg power, can't even force a touchback more than once a game...)

Our KR and PR games are below average. Donnie Jones is average. In all, our ST are well below average. Not quite sure how Marciano still has a job...

Trail.Blazr
12-19-2012, 01:36 PM
Welcome to yesterday! Pulling out another Joe M thread :deadhorse

This teams's talent has got better? you ARE referring to S/T? Yes? I'm not seeing that. Not to a degree of making a blanket statement. TBH, I think that just from the Return Man aspect, we've taken a step back in terms of BIG play potential. However, I'm cool with that, so long as we aren't gifting teams with turnovers on our side of the field, as the trade off. I want to say we've only given up 1(maybe 2?) return TD's this season, which I don't ever like to see, but accept as an inevitable part of the game. I am looking at the glass half full as of late, thinking Houston will be due to break out a return TD any game.

Special teams is OK, despite penalties. That's not on Joe. Do players really need to be coached "NOT to block in the back"?

Our biggest concern with S/T is having to score a trey from beyond 45 yards. Again, not on Joe M. I think Joe plays well with the toys he has.

Sure, I'd love to see a dominant return game, but I'm not resigned to pin that on Joe. Make upgrading Graham the priority over Joe and you'll be well served.

If I was a GM, I'd want a kicker that would hardly EVER allow another team to consider returning a Kickoff.

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2012, 01:58 PM
No sir - we drafted Randy Bullock from A&M to be our kicker. He was injured in the preseason. =)

I see where you're coming from. Misread the statement thinking you were referring to Shane.:choke:

buddyboy
12-19-2012, 02:08 PM
He lined him up on the opposite side that he normally does. After looking at the ST big season picture, you can hardly look at this isolated "genius" coaching move as anything but the "blind squirrel phenomenon."

It's true Marciano's shortcomings FAR outweigh his bright spots this year, but it's completely unfair and untrue to say that he had nothing to do with the play, it was all Braman's ability, not the coaching.

sandman
12-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Just so we are clear on FG accuracy this year:

New England, Denver, San Francisco and Green Bay all have the same or worse FG% than the Texans, which are currently 23rd.

That is FIVE of the eight division leaders and outside of Seattle represents the only realistic teams getting to the Super Bowl.

Also, Graham has missed 6 FG's this season, of which 4 misses were 50+. He is perfect inside 40 yards and 7-9 between 40 and 50 yards and 2-6 from 50+.

The coaches know that he doesn't have a big leg, but they keep trotting him out there for 50+ tries. Only 6 kickers in the league have attempted more from 50+. Is that really on Graham or the coaches?

steelbtexan
12-19-2012, 06:12 PM
As I said in the other thread

Coach Joe must go.

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2012, 06:57 PM
Just so we are clear on FG accuracy this year:

New England, Denver, San Francisco and Green Bay all have the same or worse FG% than the Texans, which are currently 23rd.

That is FIVE of the eight division leaders and outside of Seattle represents the only realistic teams getting to the Super Bowl.

Also, Graham has missed 6 FG's this season, of which 4 misses were 50+. He is perfect inside 40 yards and 7-9 between 40 and 50 yards and 2-6 from 50+.

The coaches know that he doesn't have a big leg, but they keep trotting him out there for 50+ tries. Only 6 kickers in the league have attempted more from 50+. Is that really on Graham or the coaches?

Graham's last FG just made it inside the goal post by a hair......a short 33 ydr. For that matter Bullock (obviously a Marciano pick), despite his relative college accuracy, in his senior year made 1 of 1 kicks at 50 yds or greater. The one he did make was his career long 52. The year before, he had one that he barely made at 50 yds. In preseason, he made a 21 ydr and a 52 ydr and missed a 51 ydr, similar questions remaining as with Graham. I'm somewhat guarded for prospects of significant improved kick off/FG performance next year as we will have an inexperienced and NFL-pressure unproven player....... and still with questionable leg strength and a solid feeling of legitimate security whenever he comes up to bat.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 01:44 PM
ugh ANOTHER penalty on ST with a good return there too....