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Perki-Perk
12-18-2012, 03:14 PM
Any chance we could get Cousins from the Skins?

He looked great Sunday and if we could get him for a couple second rounders ala Shaub, would you bite?

Premier
12-18-2012, 03:22 PM
he will have 4 years in shannys system. kubiak, if hes still around, will love that. i told my brother in law, watch cousins end up being the next texans starting qb..

that throw he made on the bootleg was a thing of beauty, in triple coverage he dropped it in his receivers hands, in stride.. i dont know much else about cousins..

Fili
12-18-2012, 03:24 PM
TJ Yates is a fine quarterback. No need for Cousins.

TheIronDuke
12-18-2012, 03:26 PM
Matt Flynn looked great in one game too.

ETA: Probably going to be moved to the NFL Section where it belongs.

Playoffs
12-18-2012, 03:27 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2040338&highlight=cousins#post2040338

I've been wanting Cousins for us, but I wouldn't wait 4 years. I'd be trading a high pick this offseason.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 03:28 PM
Didn't know we had a QB problem?

Hervoyel
12-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Plenty of time to watch Cousins at a distance before Kubiak needs to make that call. If he likes what he sees then he might try to make a deal. If Yates progresses there might not be any reason to. The moment Yates stops progressing (if that happens) Kubiak will be on to the next guy.

Hervoyel
12-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Didn't know we had a QB problem?


Neither did a bunch of 49er's fans last year when Smith took them to the NFC Championship game. They thought good enough was good enough. Harbaugh thought different and made a change.

Schaub is good enough until Kubiak decides he isn't I guess. I'd have a hard time saying that Schaub was so good that the position was beyond the possibility of upgrading.

I don't think we have that kind of knowledge about Cousins though. Need to see more and there's no rush. Schaub wins a Super Bowl this year and the point is moot anyway.

Double Barrel
12-18-2012, 03:34 PM
It's a no brainer: Johnny Manziel :fingergun:

badboy
12-18-2012, 03:34 PM
no.

SrslySirius
12-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Didn't know we had a QB problem?

Thread title says future solution. Matt Schaub is 31 years old.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 03:38 PM
TJ Yates is a fine quarterback. No need for Cousins.

I'm not certain if I believe that, but I get the feeling Gary (and therefore Rick Smith) does.

Short of a "Look who fell into our lap way, way lower than we had them rated" scenario (see Aaron Rodgers), I don't look for a QB to be picked up by the Texans either in free agency, via trade, or earlier than round five of this coming draft.

76Texan
12-18-2012, 03:39 PM
I've talked about Cousins during draft time as a good prospect.

But at the moment, I don't see spending high draft pick for him.

I'm comfortable with the guys we have now.

76Texan
12-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Thread title says future solution. Matt Schaub is 31 years old.

With the contract the Texans gave him, it sure looks like he's their guy for at least another two years, barring injury (knock on wood).

In the meantime we can look to see whether TJ or Keenum can develop into that next guy.

If Kubiak don't think highly enough of them, the Texans can look for another QB in the next draft. But from reading Kubiak all this time, I really think he's comfortable with the guys he has as well.

HJam72
12-18-2012, 03:44 PM
It's a no brainer: Johnny Manziel :fingergun:

no.

Why, "no?" :kitten:

ObsiWan
12-18-2012, 03:46 PM
TJ Yates is a fine quarterback. No need for Cousins.

you forgot this...
:sarcasm:

Perki-Perk
12-18-2012, 03:46 PM
Didn't know we had a QB problem?

Pretty sure I put "FUTURE" in the title....

Dutchrudder
12-18-2012, 03:49 PM
The Redskins spent a high 4th on him, so I kind of doubt they will accept two 2nds for him now. Trading him creates a hole at backup QB, which they have already needed him once in RG3's first year. I would imagine they want more than that right now.

HJam72
12-18-2012, 03:50 PM
The Redskins spent a high 4rd on him, so I kind of doubt they will accept two 2nds for him now. Trading him creates a hole at backup QB, which they have already needed once in RG3's first year. I would imagine they want more than that right now.

What kind of Ford? :fingergun:

ObsiWan
12-18-2012, 03:51 PM
Didn't know we had a QB problem?

It's not a problem... this is just looking into the future as the title says. I'm far from sold on T.J. Yates as the Schaub successor. And I don't have enough Case Keenum/NFL data to make a call one way or another. If Cousins studies under the Shannys for a couple of years, he should be ready to run the Kubiak edition of this offense just fine.

But as someone else said, we've only seen him in live, NFL action for a game and change. Need more data.

Señor Stan
12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
Maybe someone will fall to us at #32 this year....

Dutchrudder
12-18-2012, 04:00 PM
maybe someone will fall to us at #32 this year....

Tyler Wilson!!!

:)

Perki-Perk
12-18-2012, 04:04 PM
The Redskins spent a high 4th on him, so I kind of doubt they will accept two 2nds for him now. Trading him creates a hole at backup QB, which they have already needed him once in RG3's first year. I would imagine they want more than that right now.

How about a second and that guy with the mullet that we had as a 3rd QB for a short time this season???

Don't forget, they also have Grossman!! :kitten:

Texecutioner
12-18-2012, 04:05 PM
TJ Yates is a fine quarterback. No need for Cousins.

TJ Yates will never be the starter here. If he does it will be short term until we find a real prospect. Yates is terrible.

76Texan
12-18-2012, 04:28 PM
Either you keep Schaub or find a guy that you really think of as having "it".

Cousins is a good QB but he doesn't truly has that "it" factor.

With teams drafting heavily at the QB position, the next few years will present some good prospect.

Turn some of your picks into future picks and save them for a trade up in another two or three years sounds like a better plan.

Double Barrel
12-18-2012, 04:41 PM
TJ Yates will never be the starter here. If he does it will be short term until we find a real prospect. Yates is terrible.

Never say never, especially when he's already done what you say will never be done. :shades:

And besides, he's done a couple of things that Schaub has never done in his career. Play in playoff games, and win a playoff game. Obviously, that's all about to change.

*knocks on wood*

GP
12-18-2012, 04:44 PM
Uh, yes please.

That's the guy at Arkansas, right?

Wears #8, too, IIRC. I'm down with him.

deucetx
12-18-2012, 04:48 PM
It's not a problem... this is just looking into the future as the title says. I'm far from sold on T.J. Yates as the Schaub successor. And I don't have enough Case Keenum/NFL data to make a call one way or another. If Cousins studies under the Shannys for a couple of years, he should be ready to run the Kubiak edition of this offense just fine.

But as someone else said, we've only seen him in live, NFL action for a game and change. Need more data.

This. Yates did an admirable job last year but the guy stares down receivers like there is no tomorrow so let's see if he progressed a bit before annoiting him. Luckily, he should have plenty of time to do so and a few opportunities to get some action in games like the last one since we will beat the Vikings and secure homefield

*does more knocking on wood*

Hagar
12-18-2012, 04:51 PM
It takes guts to change out a starting QB that is doing reasonably well. Harbough took a huge risk by changing out Smith who was having a good season. Even though it appears to be paying off, I just don't see very many coaches doing that including Kubes. If the change at QB doesn't work out, it could cost them their season and their jobs.

CloakNNNdagger
12-18-2012, 04:53 PM
The Redskins spent a high 4th on him, so I kind of doubt they will accept two 2nds for him now. Trading him creates a hole at backup QB, which they have already needed him once in RG3's first year. I would imagine they want more than that right now.

If RG3 doesn't change his game, Cousins will often likely be serving him breakfast in bed.............except on Sundays..........:kitten:

TexanSam
12-18-2012, 05:15 PM
Whoever our next QB is, I hope he some scrambling ability. Not RGIII type, but at least enough to get out of the pocket occasionally.

Playoffs
12-18-2012, 05:33 PM
TJ Yates will never be the starter here. If he does it will be short term until we find a real prospect. Yates is terrible.I don't think Yates is terrible, but I agree he's a backup & not a stater. Giff Nielson, Oliver Luck type imo.

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2012, 06:07 PM
Three or four years down the road from now it's not a bad idea.

Thorn
12-18-2012, 06:11 PM
One way or the other, we have to get a new starting QB in the next couple of years to get up to speed. Schaub isn't going to last forever.

ATXtexanfan
12-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Solution needed immediately at qb, this a good team now. Window will close. Low ceiling with current qb. Don't know if backup is answer. Would love to see opportunities explored. Hell Seattle qb, what a third rd pick? Roll the dice like Seattle and San fran

EllisUnit
12-18-2012, 07:11 PM
Neither did a bunch of 49er's fans last year when Smith took them to the NFC Championship game. They thought good enough was good enough. Harbaugh thought different and made a change.

Schaub is good enough until Kubiak decides he isn't I guess. I'd have a hard time saying that Schaub was so good that the position was beyond the possibility of upgrading.

I don't think we have that kind of knowledge about Cousins though. Need to see more and there's no rush. Schaub wins a Super Bowl this year and the point is moot anyway.

Smith was still doing a GOOD job when he got hurt, it just so happened his rookie back up came in and really impressed.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 07:18 PM
Neither did a bunch of 49er's fans last year when Smith took them to the NFC Championship game. They thought good enough was good enough. Harbaugh thought different and made a change.

Schaub is good enough until Kubiak decides he isn't I guess. I'd have a hard time saying that Schaub was so good that the position was beyond the possibility of upgrading.

I don't think we have that kind of knowledge about Cousins though. Need to see more and there's no rush. Schaub wins a Super Bowl this year and the point is moot anyway.

Smith was still doing a GOOD job when he got hurt, it just so happened his rookie back up came in and really impressed.

And don't forget that Colin Kaepernick was drafted by Harbaugh before Smith had ever taken a snap for him. Many folks thought Smith was gone at the time Harbaugh was hired, and when he did re-sign, most of those same folks thought he was a one year band-aid (which apparently only turned out to be a half a year or so off).

Chances are if Kaepernick wasn't already on the roster at the end of last season, San Fran wouldn't have used a first or second day pick to find his replacement, and by the same token, who's to say if Gary had someone like Kaepernick on the roster, he might very well be the starter and Schaub would be playing out the last season of his contract as the backup.

Who knows.

DBCooper
12-18-2012, 07:33 PM
If RG3 doesn't change his game, Cousins will often likely be serving him breakfast in bed.............except on Sundays..........:kitten:

This is what I was going to post. The way RG3 plays, he's not going to last long.

And I agree with Texecutioner, Yates is terrible.

Fili
12-18-2012, 07:35 PM
TJ Yates will never be the starter here. If he does it will be short term until we find a real prospect. Yates is terrible.

Yates is far from terrible. Remember the win against Cincy? That didn't happen on its own. He out played Matt Ryan his first start. He played last year like a rookie. Pretty much how the rookie QBs are playing this year.

EllisUnit
12-18-2012, 07:46 PM
This is what I was going to post. The way RG3 plays, he's not going to last long.

And I agree with Texecutioner, Yates is terrible.

And dont forget the 3rd and 19 yard run the game we clinched the division. with less than 2 minutes remaining. He did lead us to a victory against Cincy in the play-offs as well. I would give him some credit and a true chance before calling him terrible.

Premier
12-18-2012, 08:02 PM
yea, yates will never be a starter, unless he does..:kitten:

ATXtexanfan
12-18-2012, 08:03 PM
Yates not terrible and a higher ceiling than schaub

axman40
12-18-2012, 08:09 PM
If we were to get Cousins , I would be happy.
:turtle:

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 08:23 PM
If we were to get Cousins , I would be happy.
:turtle:

Really? Wouldn't it kind of matter how much we gave up for him?

amazing80
12-18-2012, 08:26 PM
why are so many against Yates? He played with a banged up AJ and was a true rookie who started the season as the 3rd qb. Did any of you really think we would win a super bowl? The guy has all the tools to be good and offers things Matt doesn't, stronger arm and MUCH more mobile than Matt ever dreamt of being.

What about clinching our first playoff game without AJ, could Matt have done that...not 100% confident in that one especially with Foster being held in check all game.....

Not saying Yates is the GOAT, but IMO he will be MUCH better than Schaub ever has been or will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4VOLPxKlis

Still gives me chills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u6Vnr7o

Notice AJ did not have to stop and come back and make a spectacular grab over a defender?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLfGMN9ocVQ

What about on the run?

Sure he will make mistakes in the beginning, but Yates has all the tools to be great in this system

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 08:30 PM
why are so many against Yates? He played with a banged up AJ and was a true rookie who started the season as the 3rd qb. Did any of you really think we would win a super bowl? The guy has all the tools to be good and offers things Matt doesn't, stronger arm and MUCH more mobile than Matt ever dreamt of being.

What about clinching our first playoff game without AJ, could Matt have done that...not 100% confident in that one especially with Foster being held in check all game.....

Not saying Yates is the GOAT, but IMO he will be MUCH better than Schaub ever has been or will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4VOLPxKlis

Still gives me chills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u6Vnr7o

Notice AJ did not have to stop and come back and make a spectacular grab over a defender?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLfGMN9ocVQ

What about on the run?

Sure he will make mistakes in the beginning, but Yates has all the tools to be great in this system

While there were a few who weren't high on him last season, I think most of the concern you see stems from the fact he looked absolutely putrid in preseason this year. I agree it's not much to base an opinion on, but I think it does kind of make you take a step back and want more info.

amazing80
12-18-2012, 08:31 PM
While there were a few who weren't high on him last season, I think most of the concern you see stems from the fact he looked absolutely putrid in preseason this year. I agree it's not much to base an opinion on, but I think it does kind of make you take a step back and want more info.

Oh I agree with that, but the team in general sucked in pre-season and the best player in pre-season isn't even on this team any more, Trindon Holliday, so take it with a grain of salt

76Texan
12-18-2012, 08:37 PM
People might want to consider the level of competition Yates faced last year.

In the 8 games he played (5 were against winning teams, 2 of them went to the play-offs.)

The Jags, and the Bengals (twice) had top ten defenses.
And everybody knows about the Ravens.
The Falcons, while did not rank highly on paper, were not without a pretty decent defense.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 08:52 PM
TJ Yates will never be the starter here. If he does it will be short term until we find a real prospect. Yates is terrible.

I wonder how Tj Yates' stats look compared to Andrew Lucks first 5 games. I'd also like to see how Luck performs in his first play-off game compared to the young tarheel.

EVOLVIST
12-18-2012, 08:57 PM
Yates is far from terrible. Remember the win against Cincy? That didn't happen on its own. He out played Matt Ryan his first start. He played last year like a rookie. Pretty much how the rookie QBs are playing this year.

But, to play devil's advocate here, the more playing time he got the worse his play got!

On the other hand, to be pragmatic, I believe Yates suffered as the season went on from too much information at once. At first he was relying on his instincts and his knowledge of the paybook of course, but then he has Kubes, Dennison, Knapp, Schaub, Leinart, Garcia, Dellhome, and God knows what other players in his ear 24/7 "coaching him up."

I remember reading all the practice quotes from back then and thinking that these guys are putting too much in his head, and sure enough, week after week his play faltered, in turn causing Kubes to dumb down the playbook because of his own monster.

Of course we'll never really know, but I think it's as sound a theory as any, especially since Yates, at the start, was doing as well, or better than a number of his peers and even Hall of Famers during their first years.

While we're on the QB topic, though. If Vick stays in Philly, maybe we could have a shot at Nick Folles? I would love to see this guy in a Texans' uniform.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 09:12 PM
Solution needed immediately at qb, this a good team now. Window will close. Low ceiling with current qb. Don't know if backup is answer. Would love to see opportunities explored. Hell Seattle qb, what a third rd pick? Roll the dice like Seattle and San fran

I wonder what Matt Schaub would look like if we had receivers like Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Mario Manningham, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Heinz Ward.....

I know we've got a guy who is better than all of those guys. But the thing about it is that many of those guys were on the same team at the same time, giving their QBs plenty of targets.

Matt hasn't had that luxury, but when called upon, managed to put up back to back 4,000 yard seasons. & remember what receivers he had to do it with.

I think we should start looking for Matt's replacement when Pittsburgh or New York Giants start looking for their replacement QBs.

mexican_texan
12-18-2012, 09:14 PM
But, to play devil's advocate here, the more playing time he got the worse his play got!

On the other hand, to be pragmatic, I believe Yates suffered as the season went on from too much information at once. At first he was relying on his instincts and his knowledge of the paybook of course, but then he has Kubes, Dennison, Knapp, Schaub, Leinart, Garcia, Dellhome, and God knows what other players in his ear 24/7 "coaching him up."

I remember reading all the practice quotes from back then and thinking that these guys are putting too much in his head, and sure enough, week after week his play faltered, in turn causing Kubes to dumb down the playbook because of his own monster.

Of course we'll never really know, but I think it's as sound a theory as any, especially since Yates, at the start, was doing as well, or better than a number of his peers and even Hall of Famers during their first years.

While we're on the QB topic, though. If Vick stays in Philly, maybe we could have a shot at Nick Folles? I would love to see this guy in a Texans' uniform.
It's hard to say what will happen in Philly, looks like the Andy Reid era may come to an end.

CloakNNNdagger
12-18-2012, 09:23 PM
This is what I was going to post. The way RG3 plays, he's not going to last long.

And I agree with Texecutioner, Yates is terrible.

I am not sure if he is terrible, but I am sure that he has left me totally unimpressed. Last year, we had a solid OL, and as much as people tried to say that he showed the poise of a veteran, I didn't see it. I saw him respond in his play often as a scared school kid......leading to poor decisions. And as for major mistakes, the way the play calling protected him, he had very little opportunity to be in a position to make them. Neither did I ever see him "make" something happen. That's just my personal interpretation. I would be much more excited and hopeful to see how Keenum has developed in a year. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Keenum with his "make things happen" history would take over the the backup spot next year with a little "dazzle factor" to boot. We'll just have to wait and see.

amazing80
12-18-2012, 09:26 PM
I wonder how Tj Yates' stats look compared to Andrew Lucks first 5 games. I'd also like to see how Luck performs in his first play-off game compared to the young tarheel.

Yates went 78/130 for a 60% completion rate and had 3 tds and 3 ints. 902 yards plus 57 yards rushing.

Luck went 118/221 for a 53% completion rate and 7 tds and 7 ints. 1488 yards plus 103 yards rushing.

They might want to cut Luck and trade for Cousins :spin:


PS, Luck played pre-season snaps AND got all the first team reps assuming the starter role

infantrycak
12-18-2012, 09:29 PM
Our offense had 100 yds less passing per game and 10 pts less per game. I don't see where this Yates love comes from.

As to the OP - why not just use one of those draft picks on a QB?

But to give you a boost with a counter - of the 2007 draft class (the year we traded for Schaub) of QB's - none are starters in the NFL. Of the 2008 draft class of QB's only the two taken in the 1st round are starters.

amazing80
12-18-2012, 09:31 PM
Our offense had 100 yds less passing per game and 10 pts less per game. I don't see where this Yates love comes from.

The love comes from the eye test and knowing he was a green horn with no knowledge of our extensive playbook, but yet he still made great plays and looked the part....

76Texan
12-18-2012, 10:22 PM
Not to mention that in his first five games, Luck threw at least 10 other iffy passes that had decent-to-good chance of being intercepted; 5 of them were right at the defenders' numbers with the receivers having no chance to prevent the damage.

infantrycak
12-18-2012, 10:25 PM
The love comes from the eye test and knowing he was a green horn with no knowledge of our extensive playbook, but yet he still made great plays and looked the part....

OK well my eye test said backup QB. I don't care if Schaub looks like Gomer Pyle. I'm trying to figure out what "looks the part" more when the result is clearly inferior.

TEXANRED
12-18-2012, 10:26 PM
Any chance we could get Cousins from the Skins?

He looked great Sunday and if we could get him for a couple second rounders ala Shaub, would you bite?

I like Yates as the future. He did a Hell of a job for us last year.

Goldensilence
12-18-2012, 10:40 PM
I don't see why you'd make that move this year. It's not Matt's mobility that has impressed me this year but his arm does seem to have a bit more zip on it that I remember in the past and seems to be making smarter decisions.

If I thought Matt was going on 37 as opposed to 31 I'd consider making a move. Why use 2 2nds when we could possibly use a just one second or later to get a guy like Wilson, Murray, or even see how Keenum develops.

For the record, I think Reid's tenure in Philly is over and Vick's future is up in the air. He just still hasn't quite figured the position out and his injury history b/c of how he plays continues to catch up to him.

DocBar
12-18-2012, 10:46 PM
Our offense had 100 yds less passing per game and 10 pts less per game. I don't see where this Yates love comes from.

As to the OP - why not just use one of those draft picks on a QB?

But to give you a boost with a counter - of the 2007 draft class (the year we traded for Schaub) of QB's - none are starters in the NFL. Of the 2008 draft class of QB's only the two taken in the 1st round are starters.Yates performed well within the confines given to him and could provide more than Schaub, given the trust Schaub has. Yates was obviously limited in his games.

Texecutioner
12-18-2012, 11:02 PM
A few things here.

You people that continually keep bashing Matt Schaub have no ability to observe what a good QB is in the NFL. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but Schaub continually has sustained himself as a top 10 QB and has led this team to a 12-2 record this season, and in case you guys haven't noticed the Texans are currently "3rd" in PPG for scoring in the entire league. And yet you guys have the adacity to act like Schaub isn't doing his job???? There can only be like 3 to 4 elite QB's in this league. And for you guys who want him gone or who constantly bash the guy, please suggest how a better replacement would come here? Who?? Where are the Texans going to get this elite QB from, because the next step above Schaub is an elite guy.


Now as for Yates, I'm sorry but only homers who root for the Texans think that this guy is something that is even remotely good. There wasn't any National attention being brought to the great play of TJ Yates, because there wasn't any. Yates did nothing but hand the ball off and make check down passes with an occassional down the field throw. He didn't even show any ability to make things happen on his own, he didn't show any great arm, and he was just an average QB for a rookie even. Until I see these same fans repping guys like Gabbert and Locker, then I'll just laugh at these Tj Yates comments, because it's laughable to ever suggest he should be a future starter here and to even remotely suggest that he can do better then Schaub is the poorest assessment I've ever read in a football discussion after the consistency that Schaub has shown for this team year after year. Yates looked like complete trash in the pre season this year as well. He didn't show one ounce of improvement, and that is what young QB's on the rise generally show if they are going to be the heir to the throne.

Yates = Jason Campbell, Blain Gabbert.

Most people want an upgrade to their starting QB and want to look for an elite guy. They don't look for the next Jason Campbell just because they think the guy is a nice guy or because he was some rookie that played on a great team where he got to play in the playoffs and stunk up the field against the Ravens.

DocBar
12-18-2012, 11:13 PM
A few things here.

You people that continually keep bashing Matt Schaub have no ability to observe what a good QB is in the NFL. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but Schaub continually has sustained himself as a top 10 QB and has led this team to a 12-2 record this season, and in case you guys haven't noticed the Texans are currently "3rd" in PPG for scoring in the entire league. And yet you guys have the adacity to act like Schaub isn't doing his job???? There can only be like 3 to 4 elite QB's in this league. And for you guys who want him gone or who constantly bash the guy, please suggest how a better replacement would come here? Who?? Where are the Texans going to get this elite QB from, because the next step above Schaub is an elite guy.


Now as for Yates, I'm sorry but only homers who root for the Texans think that this guy is something that is even remotely good. There wasn't any National attention being brought to the great play of TJ Yates, because there wasn't any. Yates did nothing but hand the ball off and make check down passes with an occassional down the field throw. He didn't even show any ability to make things happen on his own, he didn't show any great arm, and he was just an average QB for a rookie even. Until I see these same fans repping guys like Gabbert and Locker, then I'll just laugh at these Tj Yates comments, because it's laughable to ever suggest he should be a future starter here and to even remotely suggest that he can do better then Schaub is the poorest assessment I've ever read in a football discussion after the consistency that Schaub has shown for this team year after year. Yates looked like complete trash in the pre season this year as well. He didn't show one ounce of improvement, and that is what young QB's on the rise generally show if they are going to be the heir to the throne.

Yates = Jason Campbell, Blain Gabbert.

Most people want an upgrade to their starting QB and want to look for an elite guy. They don't look for the next Jason Campbell just because they think the guy is a nice guy or because he was some rookie that played on a great team where he got to play in the playoffs and stunk up the field against the Ravens.Your goat smelling ass.
Schaub has shown that he is a good "rythme" passer but doesn't have much pocket presence and has very little improvosational skills. Well, is that inate or taught? Who knows? I lean towards inate and Kubiak knows it. He'd rather play it safe with an adequate QB than risk it with one. As I said in an earlier post, which came first? Is it Kubuak limiting Schaub or Schaub limiting Kubiak? Remember that Kubiak played with AND coached Elway...

Texan_Bill
12-18-2012, 11:30 PM
It's a no brainer: Johnny Manziel :fingergun:

Gig 'em!! :thumbup

:kitten: ;)
***************************

All kidding aside, why are we considering another QB?? Why? Because Schaub is getting old, or because many of us and by us I mean you cynical folks are just bitching for the sake of bitching???

Just stoopid.... I think some people just post shyte about things they know nothing about just to push their agenda.

ThaJokaa
12-18-2012, 11:32 PM
A little of both?

Texecutioner
12-18-2012, 11:36 PM
Your goat smelling ass.
Schaub has shown that he is a good "rythme" passer but doesn't have much pocket presence and has very little improvosational skills. Well, is that inate or taught? Who knows? I lean towards inate and Kubiak knows it. He'd rather play it safe with an adequate QB than risk it with one. As I said in an earlier post, which came first? Is it Kubuak limiting Schaub or Schaub limiting Kubiak? Remember that Kubiak played with AND coached Elway...

I have no idea what the hell your point is in this post. You start calling me some Goat sniffer, and then go off on some tangent about Schaub and Kubiak and talking about limitations or something. Have you been drinking again tonight?

What is with this drivel about limitations? We are the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. Sorry, but that is NOT a limitation. That is a strength. The only complaint any of you Schaub people seem to have is that he isn't mobile. Well sorry, but you don't have to be mobile to be a great QB or a good QB. Schaub is what he is. He is a very good QB. Until you can make a plan where we can go out and get an elite level guy or a guy that has that potential then stop saying we need to replace a top 10 QB, because that makes no sense when this guy leads a team who is in the top 3 in scoring offense. There have been dozens and dozens of great QB's in this league that aren't mobile.

ANd if your plan is to suggest that Yates should replace Schaub, then stop right there, because he isn't hardly mobile either. His arm isn't better then Schaub's arm no matter how slow or lobbed Schaub's arm is, and his decision making wasn't even close.

When I see you repping all these late round picks around the league season to season then I'll believe that you and a few others aren't just repping this Yates guy because he's a Texan that you had high hopes for last season. However I don't hear you advocating to bring in guys like Flynn, Tebow, Colt McCoy, Chase Daniels, and all these other guys who all showed a lot more potential then Yates ever has which may be arguable, but Yates is a bottom feeder that only played because Leinart got hurt. He was 3rd string for a reason.

Texan_Bill
12-18-2012, 11:41 PM
Your goat smelling ass.
Schaub has shown that he is a good "rythme" passer but doesn't have much pocket presence and has very little improvosational skills. Well, is that inate or taught? Who knows? I lean towards inate and Kubiak knows it. He'd rather play it safe with an adequate QB than risk it with one. As I said in an earlier post, which came first? Is it Kubuak limiting Schaub or Schaub limiting Kubiak? Remember that Kubiak played with AND coached Elway...

While your words are harsh, I understand what you mean about "improvosational skills" v. being a so-called "rythem passer", but if you were to be honest with yourself, you would know that, that is a bit of revisionist history!!!

Meh!! No worries Bro! We all tell a story to make our arguments all that more important and/or relevant!

Texecutioner
12-18-2012, 11:57 PM
Gig 'em!! :thumbup

:kitten: ;)
***************************

All kidding aside, why are we considering another QB?? Why? Because Schaub is getting old, or because many of us and by us I mean you cynical folks are just bitching for the sake of bitching???

Just stoopid.... I think some people just post shyte about things they know nothing about just to push their agenda.

I keep asking this question myself. I questioned Schaub in his first two seasons when he couldn't stay healthy and when he hadn't proven anything, but he's been a consistently good top 10 QB. I hate the fact that Shcaub isn't mobile myself, but guess what?? Neither is Matt Ryan who is also 12-2 and neither is Eli Manning who is also a two time SB winner now. Manning and Brady aren't mobile either. Have you noticed that the minute that Schaub has a bad game or we lose everyone is out for his head?? What about the rest of the games he plays pretty well?

People forget that there are 32 teams in this league. We have a guy in the top ten, so that's pretty damn good to have. We could be a team that has a guy who is in the back 20. How bad would that be?? I'm all for looking for a future replacement if we have a great guy there in the draft, but I certainly wouldn't be looking for it as if it is a need. And it would have to be a guy that has potential like RG3 had coming into the league to replace a top 10 guy for me. Schaub may have certain things he doesn't do well, but so does every QB even Tom Brady.

dream_team
12-19-2012, 12:03 AM
Neither did a bunch of 49er's fans last year when Smith took them to the NFC Championship game. They thought good enough was good enough. Harbaugh thought different and made a change.

I live in the San Francisco area... and trust me, there's not too many people here who believed Alex Smith was the answer. Harbaugh didn't really believe in him either, that's why they drafted Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

EllisUnit
12-19-2012, 12:07 AM
Ok so everyone dont get their panties in a wad, we just signed Schaub to an extension. And the tilte of the thread says "future" QB as in later on down the road. I seriously doubt the OP meant future as in next game, i'm sure he means 2-3 seasons.

MEGA SWATT
12-19-2012, 12:19 AM
Neither did a bunch of 49er's fans last year when Smith took them to the NFC Championship game. They thought good enough was good enough. Harbaugh thought different and made a change.

Schaub is good enough until Kubiak decides he isn't I guess. I'd have a hard time saying that Schaub was so good that the position was beyond the possibility of upgrading.

I don't think we have that kind of knowledge about Cousins though. Need to see more and there's no rush. Schaub wins a Super Bowl this year and the point is moot anyway.

One game-deciding turnover for CK in the playoffs and all that comes crashing down on Harbaugh:clap:

EVOLVIST
12-19-2012, 12:21 AM
And for you guys who want him [Schaub] gone or who constantly bash the guy, please suggest how a better replacement would come here? Who?? Where are the Texans going to get this elite QB from, because the next step above Schaub is an elite guy.

I'd rep you twice if I could, for all of that and then some. I might be a little bit higher on Yates than you, but not by much, because I see a far cry in Yates' play when he first came in compared to the end of the season, and yes, like you said, in the pre-season, as well.

I was expecting to see a sharp and polished QB, but he looked even more rigid in the pocket than he did during the Ravens' game. Why? I don't know. Career backup? Probably.

Yates gave many of us reasons to be optimistic early on, sure. But that regression of his just looks like sh!t now, and if he doesn't somehow make an about face, then yeah, he's going nowhere fast. Sort of like he's doing now.

Having said that, no, I just don't see one viable scenario for getting rid of Schaub; moreover, I can't see why we would.

There are QBs, in theory, that I'd like to see what they could do in our offense, but it's not going to happen, so why even sweat it?

Good, bad or indifferent, Matt Schaub is going to take this generation of Texans to the promised land...or he's not. End of story.

MEGA SWATT
12-19-2012, 12:23 AM
I keep asking this question myself. I questioned Schaub in his first two seasons when he couldn't stay healthy and when he hadn't proven anything, but he's been a consistently good top 10 QB. I hate the fact that Shcaub isn't mobile myself, but guess what?? Neither is Matt Ryan who is also 12-2 and neither is Eli Manning who is also a two time SB winner now. Manning and Brady aren't mobile either. Have you noticed that the minute that Schaub has a bad game or we lose everyone is out for his head?? What about the rest of the games he plays pretty well?

People forget that there are 32 teams in this league. We have a guy in the top ten, so that's pretty damn good to have. We could be a team that has a guy who is in the back 20. How bad would that be?? I'm all for looking for a future replacement if we have a great guy there in the draft, but I certainly wouldn't be looking for it as if it is a need. And it would have to be a guy that has potential like RG3 had coming into the league to replace a top 10 guy for me. Schaub may have certain things he doesn't do well, but so does every QB even Tom Brady.

Agree. I just hope we groom a replacement for down the line - not sure TJ is it - he might, he might not. I'd like to see the same at WR for AJ, and at RB for AF. We can keep Watt healthy and keep adding some talent and a possible successor to Wade once he retires and the Texans can remain a force in the league for 10+ years!

Texecutioner
12-19-2012, 12:23 AM
I live in the San Francisco area... and trust me, there's not too many people here who believed Alex Smith was the answer. Harbaugh didn't really believe in him either, that's why they drafted Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

Alex Smith has been a bottom feeder QB his entire career though. He finally had a season last year that wasn't terrible. Matt Schaub is not even remotely comparable to a guy like Alex Smith. Schaub has been a top 10 guy for years and has not regressed at all.

And TJ Yates never showed anything close to what Kapernick did the other night against the Patriots. He never showed potential like that ever. Hell, I even watched Yates very closely in the pre season to see if there was some improvements since I have been so terrified of ever having that guy as our starter again, and he looked worse in pre season against a ton of back ups then he did last season.

Texecutioner
12-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Agree. I just hope we groom a replacement for down the line - not sure TJ is it - he might, he might not. I'd like to see the same at WR for AJ, and at RB for AF. We can keep Watt healthy and keep adding some talent and a possible successor to Wade once he retires and the Texans can remain a force in the league for 10+ years!

Actually I think the Texans are in a perfect position because they don't need a QB right now, BUT they can always go all out if one is there.

I might have to pull that Redskins thread when the news first hit about them giving up all those picks for RG3, because I remember all types of people in here bashing that move all because of picks being involved. I sat there thinking man, the Skins just made a franchise move that will pay them dividends for years. Who cares about those picks they gave up, because they just got a guy who has a strong potential to be elite for like 10 years. I guarantee you that if the Texans ever made that move people in here would go nuts all because we lost some picks. If you have a chance at a franchise QB that could be an elite level guy YOU TAKE IT!!!

If the Texans see a guy on the board in the top 5 or something where a team doesn't need a QB, that's when they need to go all out and spend two #1 picks or something like that to get him. I want a true elite level QB to replace Schaub because if there is anything I have learned about this league is that it's ran by elite QB's and great defenses. You make that investment if you have the opportunity. The Texans need to sit back and look for a team to take advantage of if a top tier talent is ever there in the near future. But for now, we're going to be fine with Schaub for several years. Look at how many years people have been saying we should replace Schaub and yet Schaub only seems to get better with age.

ObsiWan
12-19-2012, 12:34 AM
I am not sure if he is terrible, but I am sure that he has left me totally unimpressed. Last year, we had a solid OL, and as much as people tried to say that he showed the poise of a veteran, I didn't see it. I saw him respond in his play often as a scared school kid......leading to poor decisions. And as for major mistakes, the way the play calling protected him, he had very little opportunity to be in a position to make them. Neither did I ever see him "make" something happen. That's just my personal interpretation. I would be much more excited and hopeful to see how Keenum has developed in a year. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Keenum with his "make things happen" history would take over the the backup spot next year with a little "dazzle factor" to boot. We'll just have to wait and see.

This is where I am too, doc. That's why I said, "I'm not convinced Yates is Schaub's successor."

After last season all the Yates supporters kept telling the skeptical among us, "Just wait until Yates has a whole off-season and a whole training camp to develop!" "Yates may well take Schaub's starters job!"

Well, that whole off-season and all those OTA sessions and the entire training camp came and went. Yates did not appear, to me, to have improved. In fact, like Doc said, he seemed to regress a bit.
You may say, "well, he was playing with second teamers."
That is true. It's also true is was playing AGAINST 2nd/3rd teamers. And he didn't look any better.

Maybe this coming year he will blossom. I'm sure he'll be back. The question is, who, if anyone, will Smithiak bring in to challenge him?
Or will Kubiak give Keenum a legit shot to leapfrog Yates and take over as the #2 QB?

GP
12-19-2012, 12:48 AM
This is where I am too, doc. That's why I said, "I'm not convinced Yates is Schaub's successor."

After last season all the Yates supporters kept telling the skeptical among us, "Just wait until Yates has a whole off-season and a whole training camp to develop!" "Yates may well take Schaub's starters job!"

Well, that whole off-season and all those OTA sessions and the entire training camp came and went. Yates did not appear, to me, to have improved. In fact, like Doc said, he seemed to regress a bit.
You may say, "well, he was playing with second teamers."
That is true. It's also true is was playing AGAINST 2nd/3rd teamers. And he didn't look any better.

Maybe this coming year he will blossom. I'm sure he'll be back. The question is, who, if anyone, will Smithiak bring in to challenge him?
Or will Kubiak give Keenum a legit shot to leapfrog Yates and take over as the #2 QB?

Guilty as charged.

What I expected of Yates and what he displayed in preseason vs. opponents' 3rd stringers was a huge HUGE letdown for me. HUGE.

Yates benefited from teams not having tape on him, a healthy OL, a great run game, and a Top 1 or 2 defense via Wade Phillips. The buzz of him coming in and leading us nearly to the AFCC game was a mirage; a bit of luck.

I don't think Keenum has "it" either, and I base this on nothing more than how Yates was Kubiak's next-big-boy who promptly seems to have turned into probably-just-a-career-backup.

Honestly, Keenum being the next-big-boy is sort of like lottery odds. Really, really not the odds you'd like to have.

In a few years, if Schaub is not panning out and it's time to reboot (heh, love the pun!)....then we should make a Redskins-type move and go after a sharp QB by hook or by crook. And he needs to be able to run 3 yards every now and then.

infantrycak
12-19-2012, 01:37 AM
Actually I think the Texans are in a perfect position because they don't need a QB right now, BUT they can always go all out if one is there.

I agree with most of your posts on Schaub and Yates but this is spot on. The Texans have a 1-3 year window to let drafts fall to them and find someone who doesn't have to be an immediate starter but has the potential to be elite. No reason to force it but also no reason to pass up a good opportunity because it isn't a top need.

MEGA SWATT
12-19-2012, 01:44 AM
Actually I think the Texans are in a perfect position because they don't need a QB right now, BUT they can always go all out if one is there.

I might have to pull that Redskins thread when the news first hit about them giving up all those picks for RG3, because I remember all types of people in here bashing that move all because of picks being involved. I sat there thinking man, the Skins just made a franchise move that will pay them dividends for years. Who cares about those picks they gave up, because they just got a guy who has a strong potential to be elite for like 10 years. I guarantee you that if the Texans ever made that move people in here would go nuts all because we lost some picks. If you have a chance at a franchise QB that could be an elite level guy YOU TAKE IT!!!

If the Texans see a guy on the board in the top 5 or something where a team doesn't need a QB, that's when they need to go all out and spend two #1 picks or something like that to get him. I want a true elite level QB to replace Schaub because if there is anything I have learned about this league is that it's ran by elite QB's and great defenses. You make that investment if you have the opportunity. The Texans need to sit back and look for a team to take advantage of if a top tier talent is ever there in the near future. But for now, we're going to be fine with Schaub for several years. Look at how many years people have been saying we should replace Schaub and yet Schaub only seems to get better with age.

Agree.

Norg
12-19-2012, 01:47 AM
maybe to soon to know

who knoes if kubes and Shanny are still coaches in 3 years

who knows how long schaub will play

and who knows how COusins will play

if we win the SB and all goes well schaub will be here for another 4 years

ObsiWan
12-19-2012, 02:06 AM
I think we start looking for Schaub's replacement NOW. Not to replace him in 2013 but to give the youngster 1, 2, maybe 3 seasons to grow in our system.
At the moment I'm not sure Keenum is that guy. Just don't have enough info/game data to make a solid call one way or the other.

And I disagree that Yates was ever Kubiak's "next big boy". Schaub is the only QB Kubiak has spent significant resources to acquire. Think about it. Every other QB Smithiak has brought is was 5th round or lower.

Rosenfels - Unrestricted FA
Shane Boyd - waivers (never got off P/S)
Rex Grossman - cheap F/A
Dan Orlovsky (okay, this was a 9 million dollar brain fart) - F/A
Matt Leinart - cheap F/A
T.J. Yates - 5th rounder
Case Keenum - UDFA

Now there were other late round experiments" whose names escape me but my point still stands. Other than that Orlovsky brainfart, Smithiak has yet to expend significant resources on a QB to replace Schaub. When Smithiak spends what I still call a first day pick - rounds 1-3 - on a QB, they aren't seriously looking to replace Schaub.

Premier
12-19-2012, 02:10 AM
this idea that the only possible upgrade over schaub has to be an elite qb because hes right there on the cusp is pure effin nonsense. should we scroll down the list of non-elite qbs who would kill in this offense.. schaub top 10?? meh, around 7 or 8 or so there starts to be a bunch of interchangeable guys depending how good of a week they have. but if we compiled a list of qbs ranked on skill set, iq, arm strength, pocket presence, mobility, & ability to extend plays, schaub falls somewhere in late teens to 20s.. schaub has always been a numbers guy, he was getting top tenish rankings when the texans were terrible, now he has a top running game and a defense that does have the ability to shut you down and hes still right there where he was a few years ago.. stats and regular season wins only mean so much, lets see him operate in the playoffs. i still fear hes gonna shiit the bed when all the lights are on him. some will still make excuses for him though...

ObsiWan
12-19-2012, 02:30 AM
this idea that the only possible upgrade over schaub has to be an elite qb because hes right there on the cusp is pure effin nonsense. should we scroll down the list of non-elite qbs who would kill in this offense.. schaub top 10?? meh, around 7 or 8 or so there starts to be a bunch of interchangeable guys depending how good of a week they have. but if we compiled a list of qbs ranked on skill set, iq, arm strength, pocket presence, mobility, & ability to extend plays, schaub falls somewhere in late teens to 20s.. schaub has always been a numbers guy, he was getting top tenish rankings when the texans were terrible, now he has a top running game and a defense that does have the ability to shut you down and hes still right there where he was a few years ago.. stats and regular season wins only mean so much, lets see him operate in the playoffs. i still fear hes gonna shiit the bed when all the lights are on him. some will still make excuses for him though...

You left out a very critical attribute: ACCURACY.
Arm strength don't mean SQUAT if you aren't hitting the target. Lots of guys have strong arms but can't get the ball into tight windows. I list this right after football IQ - the ability to see who should be open before the snap or to see the play called won't work and check into something more promising. And that whole "mobility" thing is a disaster waiting to happen. See M. Vick, RG3, VY, Roetlisberger... all get hurt, seemingly every year for extended periods, trying to be "mobile" and "extend plays".

Oh and I noticed you didn't list the guys you think are ahead of Schaub and why you think they are.
Post your list and lets get the debate on. :D

Premier
12-19-2012, 03:12 AM
the whole accuracy measurement seems flawed, its just an advancement on completion percentage, a stat which doesnt tell the whole story to begin with. accuracy percentage ignores throwaways and throws under duress, even then its still mainly about completion percentage after those incompletions are removed from the equation. the way i see accuracy, if a wide receiver is a target, his chest and hands are the bullseye. balls thrown in the vicinity still hit the board but theyre not bullseye hits. schaub throws way too many balls at his TEs feet, behind WRs on slants, way too many times are his receivers fully extended saving INTs, with little to no velocity. hes not exactly the poster boy for accuracy. his completion percentage will always be high because this system is designed to trick defenses leaving guys wide open. ive seen schaub make some great throws that didnt seem to be in his repertoires, to beat dbs, but this isnt a common occurrence. when i think of accuracy, i think guys like brees, who can throw a dart back shoulder pass in tight coverage, that hits his main in the chest, a pass that dbs never had a chance of defending. does this sound like schaub at all?

non elite qbs that would thrive in this system-
rivers, flacco, cutler, stafford, vick, freeman, ryan, romo, newton, eli, ben, rg3, luck...

if there was such a thing as a qb friendly system, this is it.. the toughest thing about it is learning that dennys menu playbook of kubes.. its all about formation trickery and getting defenses to commit to the stretch run.

Wolf6151
12-19-2012, 03:45 AM
why are so many against Yates? He played with a banged up AJ and was a true rookie who started the season as the 3rd qb. Did any of you really think we would win a super bowl? The guy has all the tools to be good and offers things Matt doesn't, stronger arm and MUCH more mobile than Matt ever dreamt of being.

What about clinching our first playoff game without AJ, could Matt have done that...not 100% confident in that one especially with Foster being held in check all game.....

Not saying Yates is the GOAT, but IMO he will be MUCH better than Schaub ever has been or will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4VOLPxKlis

Still gives me chills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u6Vnr7o

Notice AJ did not have to stop and come back and make a spectacular grab over a defender?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLfGMN9ocVQ

What about on the run?

Sure he will make mistakes in the beginning, but Yates has all the tools to be great in this system


While I agree with this 100%, I have my doubts that Kubiak will ever give Yates the chance he needs. I think Kubiak has found a QB (Schaub) that he can control and will run his system his way. I think Yates could be trade bait this coming offseason and if he were to get with another team and get a chance he's got the potential to be quite good.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 05:32 AM
I agree with most of your posts on Schaub and Yates but this is spot on. The Texans have a 1-3 year window to let drafts fall to them and find someone who doesn't have to be an immediate starter but has the potential to be elite. No reason to force it but also no reason to pass up a good opportunity because it isn't a top need.

Perfect....... exactly how I feel.

I've not been a Schaub fan... actually I said I loved that guy in 2009. Recently I'm working on a train of thought that says we don't have the talent at the WR position for Kubiak or Matt to trust themselves to sling it on every down, unless they really have to.

If LeStar, Posey, & Martin can turn into productive, trust worthy receivers before Andre flames out, we might see an elite QB in the very near future.

As far as Tj goes, he's the perfect QB for us now.... to back up Matt Schaub.

amazing80
12-19-2012, 06:54 AM
A few things here.

You people that continually keep bashing Matt Schaub have no ability to observe what a good QB is in the NFL. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but Schaub continually has sustained himself as a top 10 QB and has led this team to a 12-2 record this season, and in case you guys haven't noticed the Texans are currently "3rd" in PPG for scoring in the entire league. And yet you guys have the adacity to act like Schaub isn't doing his job???? There can only be like 3 to 4 elite QB's in this league. And for you guys who want him gone or who constantly bash the guy, please suggest how a better replacement would come here? Who?? Where are the Texans going to get this elite QB from, because the next step above Schaub is an elite guy.


Now as for Yates, I'm sorry but only homers who root for the Texans think that this guy is something that is even remotely good. There wasn't any National attention being brought to the great play of TJ Yates, because there wasn't any. Yates did nothing but hand the ball off and make check down passes with an occassional down the field throw. He didn't even show any ability to make things happen on his own, he didn't show any great arm, and he was just an average QB for a rookie even. Until I see these same fans repping guys like Gabbert and Locker, then I'll just laugh at these Tj Yates comments, because it's laughable to ever suggest he should be a future starter here and to even remotely suggest that he can do better then Schaub is the poorest assessment I've ever read in a football discussion after the consistency that Schaub has shown for this team year after year. Yates looked like complete trash in the pre season this year as well. He didn't show one ounce of improvement, and that is what young QB's on the rise generally show if they are going to be the heir to the throne.

Yates = Jason Campbell, Blain Gabbert.

Most people want an upgrade to their starting QB and want to look for an elite guy. They don't look for the next Jason Campbell just because they think the guy is a nice guy or because he was some rookie that played on a great team where he got to play in the playoffs and stunk up the field against the Ravens.


Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on

Rey
12-19-2012, 08:35 AM
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 08:52 AM
Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on

I think Matt is capped by the talent he has at the WR position, so I think it is premature to talk about future solutions. Even his durability concerns are wildly overstated. I think our running game is about to get to where it was last year before Schaub got hurt last year & more people are going to see him masterfully direct this offense.

Tj Yates is simply more talented than Schaub. To not admit that is dishonest at best. I don't think he is Schaub replacement. But I think he's as good as any prospect we could find in the fourth or later. As been stated before, when Kubiak feels it's time to moved on, he'll move on.

Hardcore Texan
12-19-2012, 08:53 AM
What's with the TJ bashing. He was a rookie last year right? 5th round pick even. We were supposed to have Leinart as a back up btw. For a late pick, 3rd string QB and given the entire situation he filled in nicely. I have no clue how high his ceiling is, but perhaps there is potential there. I think he can be a solid back up at this point, not sure what beyond that, I personally haven't seen enough of him since his rookie year to know much more (and that's a good thing). Not pouring on the love or pouring on the hate, just trying to be fair here. I'd need a bigger sample size and see how is development is coming.

Remember how certain every one was about Kareem Jackson.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 08:53 AM
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more.

I like Yates a lot actually.

Some people see him as a threat to Schaub.

GP
12-19-2012, 09:37 AM
And I disagree that Yates was ever Kubiak's "next big boy". Schaub is the only QB Kubiak has spent significant resources to acquire. Think about it. Every other QB Smithiak has brought is was 5th round or lower.

I would assume that every QB Kubiak drafts, he intends to some day take over, which inherently means that he is selecting QBs to be the next guy at the controls. Otherwise Kubiak is just drafting backups??? He could go get a backup if he wanted a backup (Leinart, Orlovsky, Rex, Couch, etc.).

Your idea almost makes it sound like Kubiak doesn't think Kubiak is smart enough to find a future Texans QB in the draft, the long-term solution as a guy like Schaub begins to fade or gets hurt and cannot play.

I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.

Whoa. I would never put Yates on the same level of Dalton. You must not be watching Dalton much if you think those two guys are relatively the same.

Andy Dalton is a pretty good QB stuck on a team who has one major WR threat and inconsistency in the backfield. I'd take Andy Dalton over TJ Yates in a heartbeat.

And this whole bull**** of "hate" is dumb. Come on, man. It's not hate...it's just saying that he had a full off-season, a full camp, and even in preseason games vs. 3rd stringers...Yates looked really, really, REALLY bad. And I was one of the biggest Yates pumpers out here back in the off-season.

What's with the TJ bashing. He was a rookie last year right? 5th round pick even. We were supposed to have Leinart as a back up btw. For a late pick, 3rd string QB and given the entire situation he filled in nicely. I have no clue how high his ceiling is, but perhaps there is potential there. I think he can be a solid back up at this point, not sure what beyond that, I personally haven't seen enough of him since his rookie year to know much more (and that's a good thing). Not pouring on the love or pouring on the hate, just trying to be fair here. I'd need a bigger sample size and see how is development is coming.

Remember how certain every one was about Kareem Jackson.

Kareem Jackson doesn't handle the ball on every snap, either. The QB does.

Look, like I told rey: I was excited to see TJ Yates in the preseason because of all the extra work he received in off-season and camp (due to Schaub being out). Well, I was completely shocked. He looked worse, a lot worse.

Sure, he could become something. That shouldn't stop Kubiak from drafting a QB every year and maybe even thinking one day soon about the idea of pulling the trigger on a QB a bit higher than round 5.

buckaroo_banzai
12-19-2012, 09:38 AM
Depending on how the rest of the season plays out.....I think Schaub has the potential to be considered the lower end of elite. He has (like Tom Brady) the benefit of playing in and mastering the playbook by being in the same system for years. I am NOT saying Matt is Tom, but simply saying that with his intelligence and experience in the same system for an extended amount of time, he can become a very good QB. He just needs post season wins now to help his career resume.

As for TJ, I like him, but the jury is still out on his future potential.
Either way, I don't think QB is an issue at the present time.

Rey
12-19-2012, 10:09 AM
Look, like I told rey: I was excited to see TJ Yates in the preseason because of all the extra work he received in off-season and camp (due to Schaub being out). Well, I was completely shocked. He looked worse, a lot worse.


Go back and look at how many rookies, new players and people who didn't even make the team Yates was playing with.

And his O-line was pretty much non existent. Even Kubiak mentioned that it was hard for him to do much because the O-line was playing so poorly.
I remember a few times where it literally looked like the O-line wasn't even out there.

Against New Orleans he was sacked 5 times. There wasn't a game he played in where he didn't get crazy pressure in his face and went un-sacked.

And still despite that, his numbers weren't even terrible for the most part.

I know it's about more than numbers, but as I recall my memory from those games I though Yates looked like a guy that could only do so much because of the people around him. Had he gotten some reps with the first team I think he'd have looked better. More like the guy that showed promise the year before.


Oh and what's dumb is nit picking on words. Would you rather I said non-love? Or dislike? disdain? Who cares....Was just using a word that showed strong dislike which is exact what some of these posts I've read express.

76Texan
12-19-2012, 10:23 AM
I need that popcorn emoticon. :ant:

76Texan
12-19-2012, 10:30 AM
I like our QB situation.

You can't have an All-Pro at every position .

At least Schaub made the Pro-Bowl without being "sexy".
He isn't elite, but he's still the King of Play Action.

Yates is regarded highly around the league as a good back-up QB, and that will do for now.

Every now and then, Kubiak was asked about Keenum, and he always said that the guy will play in this league for a long time.
Kubiak does not say this about many young players.

El Tejano
12-19-2012, 10:51 AM
Thread title says future solution. Matt Schaub is 31 years old.

Exactly! I'd also like a QB that can see that receivers are covered and will tuck it and run if 6 yards are available.

TexanSam
12-19-2012, 10:55 AM
I like Yates. I don't see where this Yates hate comes from.

If you look at him and Dalton they had similar rookie seasons. Biggest difference was just Dalton playing more. Yates also played a bunch without Andre.

I like Yates a lot actually. He's better than what some are giving him credit for.

I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 11:05 AM
I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.

Yet this thread is started by a guy who wants to trade draft picks for Kirk Cousins. 1 game.

The chances of Cousins being a starting QB in this league is about the same as Tj Yates.

76Texan
12-19-2012, 11:12 AM
Here's what Kubiak had to say about Keenum the Friday before the Pats game.

(on QB Case Keenum’s role preparing for the Patriots’ quick offense) “Actually (QB) T.J. (Yates) gets the bulk of it, but (QB) Case (Keenum) kind of plays everywhere. Case has done a wonderful job this year. I think he’s got a bright future in this league. I’m looking forward to these next eight weeks, but I’m really looking forward to his future coming back after a year with our team because he’s made a lot of progress. He knows what’s going on. He’s going to be very competitive come next year.”

Rey
12-19-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm not sure if we know what the Texans have in Yates yet. I don't think last year was a large enough sample size.

We still don't know if Schaub can perform at a top dog level in a big game. But that doesn't mean we can't look at him and say the things we like about him.

Last year didn't make or break Yates career, but for a 5th round rookie suddenly thrown into the action, IMO, he showed really well.

Rey
12-19-2012, 11:17 AM
Here's what Kubiak had to say about Keenum the Friday before the Pats game.

(on QB Case Keenum’s role preparing for the Patriots’ quick offense) “Actually (QB) T.J. (Yates) gets the bulk of it, but (QB) Case (Keenum) kind of plays everywhere. Case has done a wonderful job this year. I think he’s got a bright future in this league. I’m looking forward to these next eight weeks, but I’m really looking forward to his future coming back after a year with our team because he’s made a lot of progress. He knows what’s going on. He’s going to be very competitive come next year.”

I like Case too and I haven't even seen him play in the NFL much.

76Texan
12-19-2012, 11:23 AM
Anybody noticed that Kubiak mentioned about "looking forward to the next eight weeks".

mussop
12-19-2012, 11:28 AM
If we would of traded up for RG3 last year like I wanted to we wouldn't be having these discussions. :kitten:

76Texan
12-19-2012, 11:36 AM
If we would of traded up for RG3 last year like I wanted to we wouldn't be having these discussions. :kitten:

We'd be talking a lot about Yates right now. :fingergun:

76Texan
12-19-2012, 11:38 AM
Anybody noticed that Kubiak mentioned about "looking forward to the next eight weeks".

The next eight weeks will take us through the Super Bowl.

Kubiak is a liar when he said the Texans are only concerned with one game at a time, LOL. :kitten::specnatz:

Double Barrel
12-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Our offense had 100 yds less passing per game and 10 pts less per game. I don't see where this Yates love comes from.

As to the OP - why not just use one of those draft picks on a QB?

But to give you a boost with a counter - of the 2007 draft class (the year we traded for Schaub) of QB's - none are starters in the NFL. Of the 2008 draft class of QB's only the two taken in the 1st round are starters.

I don't see it as much "Yates love" as I do Yates defense. Dude made some plays when it mattered, secured a playoff spot and won a playoff game. I do not think it is unreasonable for a fanbase to think favorably of a third-string rookie QB who epitomized the "next man up" mantra of 2011.

I'm a Schaub fan and I think he's got many years left in the tank. However, he got to ride the bench in Atlanta for three seasons.

And let's not forget the little fact that Schaub has yet to be tested in the playoffs. If judging by the SNF game with GB and MNF game with NE, I'm going to be holding my breath. His goofy stare down and INT when a wide open Foster never got a look scares me a little. Schaub has shown a tendency to shrivel a little in big pressure games. The playoffs are all that, and we will find out his true grit in the coming weeks.

Gig 'em!! :thumbup

:kitten: ;)
***************************

All kidding aside, why are we considering another QB?? Why? Because Schaub is getting old, or because many of us and by us I mean you cynical folks are just bitching for the sake of bitching???

Just stoopid.... I think some people just post shyte about things they know nothing about just to push their agenda.

Yeah, these kinds of threads are indicative of a fanbase with a winning team that does not have a lot to ***** about. For years, there have been raging debates because the Texans were not a good team. Now we have to come up with hypotheticals and argue about a friggin' backup QB. Go figure.

We still don't know if Schaub can perform at a top dog level in a big game. But that doesn't mean we can't look at him and say the things we like about him.

Last year didn't make or break Yates career, but for a 5th round rookie suddenly thrown into the action, IMO, he showed really well.

I agree. Schaub is our starter and I hope he stays at that level for years to come. But I want to see him prove himself in January.

Regarding Yates, I have never advocated that he be a starter, but I do feel comfortable having him on the bench backing up Schaub. I think he's better than any other backup we've had, including Rosencopter and Leinart. JMO.

mussop
12-19-2012, 04:22 PM
We'd be talking a lot about Yates right now. :fingergun:

Had we drafted RG3 I doubt Yates would be on the team. :smiliedance:

amazing80
12-19-2012, 05:35 PM
In regards to Yates first 5 games vs Andre Lucks first 5 games.

Yates went 78/130 for a 60% completion rate and had 3 tds and 3 ints. 902 yards plus 57 yards rushing.

Luck went 118/221 for a 53% completion rate and 7 tds and 7 ints. 1488 yards plus 103 yards rushing.

They might want to cut Luck and trade for Cousins :spin:


PS, Luck played pre-season snaps AND got all the first team reps assuming the starter role

I see the haters conveniently skipped over this, should we send this to Indy so they can move on from Luck??

76Texan
12-19-2012, 05:36 PM
Had we drafted RG3 I doubt Yates would be on the team. :smiliedance:

How can that happen? Come on be real, dawg!

ObsiWan
12-19-2012, 06:07 PM
the whole accuracy measurement seems flawed, its just an advancement on completion percentage, a stat which doesnt tell the whole story to begin with. accuracy percentage ignores throwaways and throws under duress, even then its still mainly about completion percentage after those incompletions are removed from the equation.
Didn't make myself clear. I'm talking more "eye test" than stats when I refer to accuracy. Your next paragraph goes to the heart of that point.

the way i see accuracy, if a wide receiver is a target, his chest and hands are the bullseye. balls thrown in the vicinity still hit the board but theyre not bullseye hits. schaub throws way too many balls at his TEs feet, behind WRs on slants, way too many times are his receivers fully extended saving INTs, with little to no velocity. hes not exactly the poster boy for accuracy.
Agreed. However, Schaub does well enough and has, in past seasons at least, shown that he can put the ball in tight spaces. ...as long as it isn't a real, long throw.

when i think of accuracy, i think guys like brees, who can throw a dart back shoulder pass in tight coverage, that hits his main in the chest, a pass that dbs never had a chance of defending. does this sound like schaub at all? Add Rodgers and Brady to this list too. When their guy has a DB in his back pocket they can put the ball in his shirt pocket. When their guy has the DB on his inside they put it on the outside... ...and their guy never has to break stride.

non elite qbs that would thrive in this system-
rivers, flacco, cutler, stafford, vick, freeman, ryan, romo, newton, eli, ben, rg3, luck...
good list. I'd put Schaub on equal footing with this bunch. Any of them, like Schaub, when they're "On", can go toe-to-toe with anyone. When they're not "On", they can cost you the game.

if there was such a thing as a qb friendly system, this is it.. the toughest thing about it is learning that dennys menu playbook of kubes.. its all about formation trickery and getting defenses to commit to the stretch run.and knowing when the defense is stacked against what was called and when/where there's a mismatch in our favor. One would think those things can be taught. But the prospect has to have the work ethic to study enough to pick that stuff up.

ObsiWan
12-19-2012, 07:05 PM
I would assume that every QB Kubiak drafts, he intends to some day take over, which inherently means that he is selecting QBs to be the next guy at the controls. Otherwise Kubiak is just drafting backups??? He could go get a backup if he wanted a backup (Leinart, Orlovsky, Rex, Couch, etc.).

Your idea almost makes it sound like Kubiak doesn't think Kubiak is smart enough to find a future Texans QB in the draft, the long-term solution as a guy like Schaub begins to fade or gets hurt and cannot play.
No, no... you're reading too much into what I said. All I'm saying is Kubiak is good with Schaub as his starter (note the multi-year extension in Sept.) and hasn't gone "all in" to find a replacement. I figure the search will become earnest in a couple of years unless Yates starts to improve significantly. And I ain't saying Yates can't ...I mean they turned Kareem (I fall down) Jackson into a solid #2 CB. Nothing says Yates cannot make that kind of improvement too. We have time.


And this whole bull**** of "hate" is dumb. Come on, man. It's not hate...it's just saying that he had a full off-season, a full camp, and even in preseason games vs. 3rd stringers...Yates looked really, really, REALLY bad. And I was one of the biggest Yates pumpers out here back in the off-season.
I salute you for backing off on last year's "enthusiam" for Yates and recognizing he hasn't progressed as some predicted and most of us hoped. So, you're right, it's not "hate". This season Yates simply has not passed the eyeball test. But I'm thinking Kubiak will give him next year to grow and maybe he'll blossom as KJ did.
If so, great.
If not, the search continues.

Texecutioner
12-19-2012, 07:14 PM
Incorrect, the NFL voted Yates the most valuable back up and most wanted QB......it was a story earlier in the season.....No one here is claiming he is the next Tom Brady, but the guy surely provides upside

And Schaub is BARELY top 10, if he even is....so its not like we're moving on from a prime top 5 qb, give schaub another season or 2 then evaluate him and move on

Talk about complete false rhetoric to suggest that Yates is some highly sought after QB. WHat a crock. There isn't any teams out there trying to get Yates out of Houston. ANd there won't be either. And yeah, there were several people trying to make Brady comparisons last season because they were drafted in the same draft. There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season, and everyone can spare me with this total BS that Yates took the Texans to the playoffs or "epitomized" this next man up garbage. Yates was "dragged" to the playoffs by a team that had a great running game and a great defense. Yates was awful down the stretch of the season. He was dreadful and Kubiak never trusted him either. Our offense was horrible with him in there and we lost to the Colts for crying out loud.

The Texans aren't even close to moving on from Schaub. They're 12-2 with Schaub and were on a winning streak with a very good offense last season with Schaub.

I swear, you guys don't seem to realize at all that the Texans offense right now is the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. That means that Schaub has led an offense that can put up points all year long and until a few weeks ago they were #2 behind the Patriots. And this is all behind an offense where most people think that Foster is not the same and Tate has been out and where we have a ton of lousy #2 WR's.

Schaub and Yates aren't even in the same dimension of QB's.

I see the haters conveniently skipped over this, should we send this to Indy so they can move on from Luck??

You should be excluded from this conversation for even attempting to compare Yates to Andrew Luck. Luck has carried a 1-15 team on his back all season long. He has made several come back victories and is already one of the better QB's in this league. Trying to cherry pick some type of worthless stats from Yates to Luck is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen in here.

amazing80
12-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Talk about complete false rhetoric to suggest that Yates is some highly sought after QB. WHat a crock. There isn't any teams out there trying to get Yates out of Houston. ANd there won't be either. And yeah, there were several people trying to make Brady comparisons last season because they were drafted in the same draft. There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season, and everyone can spare me with this total BS that Yates took the Texans to the playoffs or "epitomized" this next man up garbage. Yates was "dragged" to the playoffs by a team that had a great running game and a great defense. Yates was awful down the stretch of the season. He was dreadful and Kubiak never trusted him either. Our offense was horrible with him in there and we lost to the Colts for crying out loud.

The Texans aren't even close to moving on from Schaub. They're 12-2 with Schaub and were on a winning streak with a very good offense last season with Schaub.

I swear, you guys don't seem to realize at all that the Texans offense right now is the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. That means that Schaub has led an offense that can put up points all year long and until a few weeks ago they were #2 behind the Patriots. And this is all behind an offense where most people think that Foster is not the same and Tate has been out and where we have a ton of lousy #2 WR's.

Schaub and Yates aren't even in the same dimension of QB's.



You should be excluded from this conversation for even attempting to compare Yates to Andrew Luck. Luck has carried a 1-15 team on his back all season long. He has made several come back victories and is already one of the better QB's in this league. Trying to cherry pick some type of worthless stats from Yates to Luck is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen in here.



Way to rant about nothing mentioned in the thread. No one here is proclaiming that Yates is better than SCHAUB, we're discussing our FUTURE qb and Yates is the likely candidate based on last season. Way to be dramatic and over react, typical from you I imagine.....

Texecutioner
12-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Way to rant about nothing mentioned in the thread. No one here is proclaiming that Yates is better than SCHAUB, we're discussing our FUTURE qb and Yates is the likely candidate based on last season. Way to be dramatic and over react, typical from you I imagine.....

I've read in this very thread that Yates has more upside, that Yates showed all this good stuff last season, and yada yada, yada. And yes, I've heard many people attempt to suggest that Schaub would not be as good as Yates in the off season. Sorry, but I'm tired of hearing his name being mentioned. He showed that he was what he was drafted as last season which was a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB. His numbers were not good. He did not have any type of improv skills anywhere near what I've seen even out of guys like Kapernick or Russell Wilson.

When I hear you and some of these others repping 3rd string QB's on other teams or guys like Gabbert, then I won't think that this has anything to do with Yates being some likable 3rd string guy that was thrown into the fire that people wanted to believe in. People should want a guy who has the ability to become an elite level one day. There was nothing to see out of Yates to suggest that he would ever be anything more then another Jason Campbell or Brad Johnson type of QB at best. If he hit his highest peak, he could possibly be as good as Jake Delhomme. And I don't think even for a second that even Gary Kubiak would ever make Yates as a full time starter unless it was a stop gap type of season where we had no one else to throw out there. There is nothing out there currently to suggest that Yates is our future. He was our 3rd stringer that we were forced to play. Nothing more then that.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 07:33 PM
There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season

Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that Yates should start over Schaub.

I do remember the question, "If Yates leads us to the AFC Championship game should he start over Schaub?"

Since that didn't happen, & like you said, he was dragged to a play-off victory.... the question's kinda moot.

Texecutioner
12-19-2012, 07:42 PM
Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that Yates should start over Schaub.

I do remember the question, "If Yates leads us to the AFC Championship game should he start over Schaub?"

Since that didn't happen, & like you said, he was dragged to a play-off victory.... the question's kinda moot.

Off season threads got pretty ridiculous regarding Yates and even going back to last season. The Texans were winning a few games with him, but it was with a run first team and a great defense. It had nothing to do with Yates's arm. Hell, Kubiak didn't trust Yates to do anything either. When he did and Yates was forced to actually try to win games, you saw what happened against a terrible Colts team and the Ravens game where he threw like 4 picks. The thing is that no one ever whispered a word about this great potential of Yates. Before he was forced to start he was just some 6th round pick that no one cared about. But when we had all those injuries and he was forced to start, everyone wanted to have this huge rally around him where all this false hope was put behind this below average guy who never had a chance last season. I told people that the minute he became our starter. I knew our chances of winning a SB were done, and believe me a ton of people swore up and down that we still had a shot even with Yates and made all of these Tom Brady analogies as if Brady's story was some norm around the league.

I think Yates is fine for a back up. Glad to have him. But the minute that talks begin as far as him being a starter, that's when this stuff gets crazy. I can guarantee you that if Yates played for the Titans people in here would clown him just as bad as they do with Gabbert. you put Gabbert as our back up on the Texans you'd be hearing all these same people talking about how much potential Gabbert has and how he could possibly be our future. That's how a lot of fans are always thinking certain guys that are completely unproven will become these great surprises just because they want that to happen. Hell, do you remember how many people automatically thought that Lestar Jean and Martin were something to get really excited about after the pre season? neither one has done jack this year, and you'd have figured that people would have learned after Jacoby Jones did nothing after that great pre season. I see this every off season on this board.

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 07:55 PM
I think Yates is fine for a back up. Glad to have him. But the minute that talks begin as far as him being a starter, that's when this stuff gets crazy. I can guarantee you that if Yates played for the Titans people in here would clown him just as bad as they do with Gabbert. you put Gabbert as our back up on the Texans you'd be hearing all these same people talking about how much potential Gabbert has and how he could possibly be our future. That's how a lot of fans are always thinking certain guys that are completely unproven will become these great surprises just because they want that to happen. Hell, do you remember how many people automatically thought that Lestar Jean and Martin were something to get really excited about after the pre season? The guy hasn't done jack this year.

I wouldn't mind having Locker as our back-up, under Gary's tuteledge. Then yes, you may here some talk about how "great" our back up is. Gabbert? Jags QB? I doubt it. He'd get the Orlavsky treatment.

Yates & Rosenfels showed an ability to play this game at a high level & with a safe Gary Kubiak game plan, could win some games. They had that improv factor that Matt does not.

Locker has it. Gabbert does not.

You're right, we get way too excited about what might be with any QB on our roster that shows the slightest hint of talent & totally dismiss what talent Matt Schaub possesses.

But, we're pretty brutal to the ones that show no snap at all... Orlavsky, & Sage again.

amazing80
12-19-2012, 09:26 PM
I've read in this very thread that Yates has more upside, that Yates showed all this good stuff last season, and yada yada, yada. And yes, I've heard many people attempt to suggest that Schaub would not be as good as Yates in the off season. Sorry, but I'm tired of hearing his name being mentioned. He showed that he was what he was drafted as last season which was a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB. His numbers were not good. He did not have any type of improv skills anywhere near what I've seen even out of guys like Kapernick or Russell Wilson.

When I hear you and some of these others repping 3rd string QB's on other teams or guys like Gabbert, then I won't think that this has anything to do with Yates being some likable 3rd string guy that was thrown into the fire that people wanted to believe in. People should want a guy who has the ability to become an elite level one day. There was nothing to see out of Yates to suggest that he would ever be anything more then another Jason Campbell or Brad Johnson type of QB at best. If he hit his highest peak, he could possibly be as good as Jake Delhomme. And I don't think even for a second that even Gary Kubiak would ever make Yates as a full time starter unless it was a stop gap type of season where we had no one else to throw out there. There is nothing out there currently to suggest that Yates is our future. He was our 3rd stringer that we were forced to play. Nothing more then that.


The point of the Yates vs Luck (first 5 games) comparison was to show that Yates played similar to ANY rookie (maybe slightly better since he was the 3rd string) and the expectations were only higher since we had a veteran who had POTENTIAL to lead us deep into the playoffs.....Yates showed flashes of a good arm, nice accuracy and his mobility was a nice bonus, none of those things suggest GOAT, but again, the point of the thread is to discuss the FUTURE qb and Yates is the favorite and should be.....Given time his mental make up will improve and his decision making will also get better. Lets not pretend Schaub is brilliant in our system, he is a game manager, nothing more. Has moments of greatness, but has MUCH more moments of incompetence. For every game he won (and that could be debated since he usually throws it up to our HOF wide out) he has LOST just as many if not more....

Texecutioner
12-20-2012, 12:13 AM
The point of the Yates vs Luck (first 5 games) comparison was to show that Yates played similar to ANY rookie (maybe slightly better since he was the 3rd string) and the expectations were only higher since we had a veteran who had POTENTIAL to lead us deep into the playoffs.....Yates showed flashes of a good arm, nice accuracy and his mobility was a nice bonus, none of those things suggest GOAT, but again, the point of the thread is to discuss the FUTURE qb and Yates is the favorite and should be.....Given time his mental make up will improve and his decision making will also get better. Lets not pretend Schaub is brilliant in our system, he is a game manager, nothing more. Has moments of greatness, but has MUCH more moments of incompetence. For every game he won (and that could be debated since he usually throws it up to our HOF wide out) he has LOST just as many if not more....

Schaub is a game manager?? How the hell do you say these things?? Game managers are guys like Sanchez, Alex Smith, and Kyle Horton.

Schaub is on pace with guys like Matt Ryan, Tony Romo (Better then Romo though), and Eli Manning before Eli won his 2nd SB. That's a fine class to be in.

Schaub has been throwing for a ton of yards every season and has had pretty good TD totals year after year. That is not even close to being a game manager. A game manager is not even close to being capable of throwing for over 500 yards in a game like Schaub had to do just to win.

The only reason why any of you make these ridiculous claims that Schaub is some game manager is because he is no a mobile QB that can make plays on his feet and because he is so mellow on the sidelines. But I don't know how many times I have to point out several QB's that aren't mobile either that are great QB's. Hell, Matt Ryan is not considered one of the best in the league, but he is very good every season. He has his limitations though, but leads his teams to wins just like Schaub does, and Ryan is 12-2 as well.

Textan
12-20-2012, 03:13 AM
We shall see come play off time. So far he's shown piss poor performances in prime time games. I have no faith in Schaub, but I'd love to be proven wrong in these weeks ahead.
Yates scrambling ability last year against the Bengals during the regular season is something I've never seen Schaub even come close to doing. His last name should be Sloth.

HJam72
12-20-2012, 08:34 AM
Actually, I do think Yates has more "upside" than Schaub, but upside and actual performance are 2 very different things. I'm also just seeing it that way based on physical ability and, no, I wouldn't put Yates and Schaub in the same dimension. Schaub knows what he's doing and is extremely careful. When he does screw up, it's because he didn't put the ball where he meant to. Yates, on the other hand, will try to become Brett Favre out there and try to thread needles he has no chance of threading. Maybe some day he will actually thread those needles; or maybe he will learn not to try. More likely, but still not guaranteed, he will do some of both some day.

deucetx
12-20-2012, 09:00 AM
A lot of speculative thinking in this thread.

One, Yates is a quality backup and let's leave it at that. Saying 'He WILL get better' is guesswork and hopeful theory. No one has absolutely no clue if he will get better or not. If all talented players that came into the NFL always got better then you could have a point but that is not even close. Just because Yates has our Texans colors on doesn't make him immune to the chance he doesn't develop one bit.

And let's stop with the Luck comparisons. A blind granny could know these two are not in the same league at this point. One game managed with a strong running game, offensive line and defense. The other has a below average running game, offensive line and defense while being the main cog of his offense. Even putting up his first five starts is pointless because as Texecutioner pointed out, Yates got worse as the season went on.

Can Yates develop? Sure. Anyone in the league can. But like many, I will wait to see it because all I saw of him toward the end last year and again this preseason is a guy who stared down his receivers while not going through progressions properly. Something he can learn and adapt away from but til he does it I'm not going to say 'We have the quarterback of the future!' because he managed some games last year. He has issues to fix before that. Hopefully he can but remains to be seen.

As for Cousins, it was one game. I wouldn't want to fall into the trap of going after him until the opportunity to see more. Seems Shanny grabbed him just to dish him out later so there's time there unless one of these horrible quarterbacked teams go for him since this draft isn't overly strong in that spot.

Cerberus
12-20-2012, 09:33 AM
Any chance we could get Cousins from the Skins?

He looked great Sunday and if we could get him for a couple second rounders ala Shaub, would you bite?

No. Cousins was selected to back-up a mobile QB that is susceptible to injury due to the way he plays. So, you could say that he is the Redskin's insurance policy. In addition, he contract isn't very much over the four years, so I don't see it happening. Besides, Schaub is not a bad QB so I don't know what the problem seems to be.

noxiousdog
12-20-2012, 09:44 AM
non elite qbs that would thrive in this system-
rivers, flacco, cutler, stafford, vick, freeman, ryan, romo, newton, eli, ben, rg3, luck...


I'd like to see what Kubiak could do with Rivers, but Norv is known as a QB coach. I'd give you Stafford, RG3, Rothlesberger, and Luck. But that's a #1,#2, #7, and #1 pick. Good luck getting guys like that. Also, I assume Luck will get better, but I haven't seen a guy's performance so overrated for a long time.

The others? Meh. Flacco's terrible. Cutler has already been in this system. Vick is old and always hurt. Freeman has had two good years and two bad years. And they were really bad. Ryan is about the same as Schaub but has a better complement of receivers. Eli and Romo make too many mistakes for my taste. I don't think Cam is smart enough to run our offense, but if he could....

And let's be real, whomever is here is still going to be handcuffed by wanting to run so much.

infantrycak
12-20-2012, 03:41 PM
And let's be real, whomever is here is still going to be handcuffed by wanting to run so much.

Yeah handcuffed to the tune of being on pace for 4000 yds passing for the fourth straight year.

Norg
12-21-2012, 03:54 AM
i cant wait to see how yates plays aganist the colts maybe he can get some revenge from last year and get a W

Perki-Perk
12-21-2012, 11:57 AM
No. Cousins was selected to back-up a mobile QB that is susceptible to injury due to the way he plays. So, you could say that he is the Redskin's insurance policy. In addition, he contract isn't very much over the four years, so I don't see it happening. Besides, Schaub is not a bad QB so I don't know what the problem seems to be.

I don't know that you are comprehending what the word "future" means...

Perki-Perk
12-21-2012, 12:01 PM
i cant wait to see how yates plays aganist the colts maybe he can get some revenge from last year and get a W

Yes, I would love for our second unit to go out and destroy the Colts, if it comes down to that. Petersons first.

Texecutioner
12-21-2012, 08:47 PM
We shall see come play off time. So far he's shown piss poor performances in prime time games. I have no faith in Schaub, but I'd love to be proven wrong in these weeks ahead.
Yates scrambling ability last year against the Bengals during the regular season is something I've never seen Schaub even come close to doing. His last name should be Sloth.

He has had two bad performances in prime time games this season. Fine. Now what about the rest of the season?? Why are you so obtuse to the "majority" of the season??

The only thing you Schaub bashers ever seem to come up with is that he isn't mobile. With that said, I guess you hate Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, and Matt Ryan then. All those guys run like sloths. God forbid a QB actually knows how to make reads, make accurate throws, read defensive formations before the snap, watch film and know the tendancies of different DB's that they face from week to week.

And I'm getting sick and tired of every time the Texans lose it always becomes on Schaub somehow. Or these ridiculous complaints all seem to be the fact that Schaub isn't capable of doing what Brady or Rogers can do. So ****ing what. He isn't an elite QB. Neither are the rest of the 28 QB's behind Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning. No one can do what these 4 can do. I'm so tired of people's bashing of Schaub when all they do is come up with these thing about him not being able to scramble as if that's the only thing that makes a QB successful.

The minute that the Texans offense has a bad game guys like you are waiting in the wings to bash him and act like he has always been some sort of liability even though the Texans offense is 3rd in scoring this season behind the Patriots and the Broncos. Schaub's offense has put up more points then Aaron Rodgers this year and also Drew Brees. Yet, the minute he has a bad game (Which every QB has a few) you guys want to nit pick him like he is David Carr. You want David Carr back?? Hey, he was mobile!! I'd think people would appreciate having a top 10 QB year after year, but apparently this franchise needs another David Carr for some of you guys to appreciate what a top 10 QB is. There are teams like the Bears who went like 25 years without finding a quality starter before Cutler and teams like the Dolphins who still haven't found a franchise QB to replace Marino and the 49ers as well since Steve Young left. And yet, you guys can't be happy with Schaub???? I wonder how long you guys have been watching the NFL sometimes, because elite QB's don't grow on trees and you have to have basically a 1-15 type of season to obtain one.

Texecutioner
12-21-2012, 08:51 PM
i cant wait to see how yates plays aganist the colts maybe he can get some revenge from last year and get a W

You mean in that game where he couldn't even get a TD drive against the worst team in the league?? I don't want to see him, because if Yates starts against this year's Colts we will lose. This year's Colts are a good team with a great QB already. I don't care what Luck's stats say. He is already great. He'll be elite by his 3rd season and maybe by next year. Yates starts and we'll lose.

ObsiWan
12-21-2012, 08:52 PM
Not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that Yates should start over Schaub.

I do remember the question, "If Yates leads us to the AFC Championship game should he start over Schaub?"

Since that didn't happen, & like you said, he was dragged to a play-off victory.... the question's kinda moot.

In this thread, you're right.
But during training camp, yeah there were voices saying "keep Schaub on the PUP list and let Yates start the first 6 games" or "Trade/cut Schaub, he's damaged goods. Yates can lead this team as well as Schaub can."

Yeah... they were out there.

Texecutioner
12-21-2012, 09:05 PM
In this thread, you're right.
But during training camp, yeah there were voices saying "keep Schaub on the PUP list and let Yates start the first 6 games" or "Trade/cut Schaub, he's damaged goods. Yates can lead this team as well as Schaub can."

Yeah... they were out there.

YOu bet they were, and believe me I wouldn't ever take any of those people's opinion seriously as an observer of NFL QB's. Schaub may have certain limitations, but the hype on a 3rd string QB that didn't show anything as a passer has been outragious on this board. Only from Texans fans. Funny how you haven't heard any other observers outside of HOuston raving about how great Yates could be. The guy isn't even on anyone's radar. He's as irrelevant as any other 3rd string QB on teams now. People seem to forget and totally ignore that 6th round draft picks don't ever become starting QB's in this league other then like 1 out of 10 probably. But somehow Yates is this difference maker?? Lol! The guy was never even a big time prospect. And people keep talking about this mobility thing. Yates is faster then Schaub, but he isn't some super fast guy like Rogers or Manziel. He's just faster then Schaub. The guy was not improvising at all last year. He was handing the ball off and throwing down the field like 4 times a game if that.

mussop
12-21-2012, 09:16 PM
No. Cousins was selected to back-up a mobile QB that is susceptible to injury due to the way he plays. So, you could say that he is the Redskin's insurance policy. In addition, he contract isn't very much over the four years, so I don't see it happening. Besides, Schaub is not a bad QB so I don't know what the problem seems to be.

This thread is about the future after Schaub. :headhurts:

Personally I think we should draft any QB in the upcoming drafts that Kubiak thinks has the potential to be a replacement for Schaub in the next couple of years. If there is a QB that is available that is in his opinion head and shoulders better than Yates why wouldn't shouldn't we draft him?

Schaub hasn't exactly been the healthiest QB over his career. Not to mention he literally hasn't proved anything on the big stage yet. If he were to go down again would you be happy with Yates as our only option for the future?

thunderkyss
12-21-2012, 10:14 PM
In this thread, you're right.
But during training camp, yeah there were voices saying "keep Schaub on the PUP list and let Yates start the first 6 games" or "Trade/cut Schaub, he's damaged goods. Yates can lead this team as well as Schaub can."

Yeah... they were out there.

I remember that. We had no idea how Schaub was going to recover. Our resident doctor here said he didn't see how Schaub would be back to start the season. Who knew Schaub was going to be throwing by May.

If anything, we (yeah, I said we) were preparing ourselves for having to start the season without Schaub, based on the information we had at the time.

ObsiWan
12-21-2012, 10:28 PM
I remember that. We had no idea how Schaub was going to recover. Our resident doctor here said he didn't see how Schaub would be back to start the season. Who knew Schaub was going to be throwing by May.

If anything, we (yeah, I said we) were preparing ourselves for having to start the season without Schaub, based on the information we had at the time.

True statements.
But there were two distinct camps.
Those hoping like heck for Schaub to make it back because we had little or no faith in Yates becoming a long-term, NFL-quality starter...
and
Those wanting Schaub to go away - either stay on the PUP list or be traded - because they just knew Yates was either already starter quality or would be with a full off-season - OTAs/training camp/pre-season - under his belt.

I'm not saying Yates can't be starter quality some day (After all, Alex Smith did it. Took him six years but he did it.) but I don't see where he's ready now.

Thorn
12-21-2012, 10:43 PM
He has had two bad performances in prime time games this season. Fine. Now what about the rest of the season?? Why are you so obtuse to the "majority" of the season??

The only thing you Schaub bashers ever seem to come up with is that he isn't mobile. With that said, I guess you hate Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, and Matt Ryan then. All those guys run like sloths. God forbid a QB actually knows how to make reads, make accurate throws, read defensive formations before the snap, watch film and know the tendancies of different DB's that they face from week to week.

And I'm getting sick and tired of every time the Texans lose it always becomes on Schaub somehow. Or these ridiculous complaints all seem to be the fact that Schaub isn't capable of doing what Brady or Rogers can do. So ****ing what. He isn't an elite QB. Neither are the rest of the 28 QB's behind Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning. No one can do what these 4 can do. I'm so tired of people's bashing of Schaub when all they do is come up with these thing about him not being able to scramble as if that's the only thing that makes a QB successful.

The minute that the Texans offense has a bad game guys like you are waiting in the wings to bash him and act like he has always been some sort of liability even though the Texans offense is 3rd in scoring this season behind the Patriots and the Broncos. Schaub's offense has put up more points then Aaron Rodgers this year and also Drew Brees. Yet, the minute he has a bad game (Which every QB has a few) you guys want to nit pick him like he is David Carr. You want David Carr back?? Hey, he was mobile!! I'd think people would appreciate having a top 10 QB year after year, but apparently this franchise needs another David Carr for some of you guys to appreciate what a top 10 QB is. There are teams like the Bears who went like 25 years without finding a quality starter before Cutler and teams like the Dolphins who still haven't found a franchise QB to replace Marino and the 49ers as well since Steve Young left. And yet, you guys can't be happy with Schaub???? I wonder how long you guys have been watching the NFL sometimes, because elite QB's don't grow on trees and you have to have basically a 1-15 type of season to obtain one.

Nice rant there Tex. And I agree with you. But I do think you undersell Yates.

Playoffs
12-21-2012, 11:25 PM
He has had two bad performances in prime time games this season. Fine. Now what about the rest of the season?? Why are you so obtuse to the "majority" of the season??

The only thing you Schaub bashers ever seem to come up with is that he isn't mobile. With that said, I guess you hate Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, and Matt Ryan then. All those guys run like sloths. God forbid a QB actually knows how to make reads, make accurate throws, read defensive formations before the snap, watch film and know the tendancies of different DB's that they face from week to week.

And I'm getting sick and tired of every time the Texans lose it always becomes on Schaub somehow. Or these ridiculous complaints all seem to be the fact that Schaub isn't capable of doing what Brady or Rogers can do. So ****ing what. He isn't an elite QB. Neither are the rest of the 28 QB's behind Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning. No one can do what these 4 can do. I'm so tired of people's bashing of Schaub when all they do is come up with these thing about him not being able to scramble as if that's the only thing that makes a QB successful.

The minute that the Texans offense has a bad game guys like you are waiting in the wings to bash him and act like he has always been some sort of liability even though the Texans offense is 3rd in scoring this season behind the Patriots and the Broncos. Schaub's offense has put up more points then Aaron Rodgers this year and also Drew Brees. Yet, the minute he has a bad game (Which every QB has a few) you guys want to nit pick him like he is David Carr. You want David Carr back?? Hey, he was mobile!! I'd think people would appreciate having a top 10 QB year after year, but apparently this franchise needs another David Carr for some of you guys to appreciate what a top 10 QB is. There are teams like the Bears who went like 25 years without finding a quality starter before Cutler and teams like the Dolphins who still haven't found a franchise QB to replace Marino and the 49ers as well since Steve Young left. And yet, you guys can't be happy with Schaub???? I wonder how long you guys have been watching the NFL sometimes, because elite QB's don't grow on trees and you have to have basically a 1-15 type of season to obtain one.Word.

mussop
12-21-2012, 11:48 PM
He has had two bad performances in prime time games this season. Fine. Now what about the rest of the season?? Why are you so obtuse to the "majority" of the season??

The only thing you Schaub bashers ever seem to come up with is that he isn't mobile. With that said, I guess you hate Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, and Matt Ryan then. All those guys run like sloths. God forbid a QB actually knows how to make reads, make accurate throws, read defensive formations before the snap, watch film and know the tendancies of different DB's that they face from week to week.

And I'm getting sick and tired of every time the Texans lose it always becomes on Schaub somehow. Or these ridiculous complaints all seem to be the fact that Schaub isn't capable of doing what Brady or Rogers can do. So ****ing what. He isn't an elite QB. Neither are the rest of the 28 QB's behind Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning. No one can do what these 4 can do. I'm so tired of people's bashing of Schaub when all they do is come up with these thing about him not being able to scramble as if that's the only thing that makes a QB successful.

The minute that the Texans offense has a bad game guys like you are waiting in the wings to bash him and act like he has always been some sort of liability even though the Texans offense is 3rd in scoring this season behind the Patriots and the Broncos. Schaub's offense has put up more points then Aaron Rodgers this year and also Drew Brees. Yet, the minute he has a bad game (Which every QB has a few) you guys want to nit pick him like he is David Carr. You want David Carr back?? Hey, he was mobile!! I'd think people would appreciate having a top 10 QB year after year, but apparently this franchise needs another David Carr for some of you guys to appreciate what a top 10 QB is. There are teams like the Bears who went like 25 years without finding a quality starter before Cutler and teams like the Dolphins who still haven't found a franchise QB to replace Marino and the 49ers as well since Steve Young left. And yet, you guys can't be happy with Schaub???? I wonder how long you guys have been watching the NFL sometimes, because elite QB's don't grow on trees and you have to have basically a 1-15 type of season to obtain one.

He also can't hit a WR in stride more than 20 yards down field to save his life. :peek:

Texecutioner
12-21-2012, 11:50 PM
He also can't hit a WR in stride more than 20 yards down field to save his life. :peek:

His yearly totals in passing yards disagrees with that.

silentassassin
12-21-2012, 11:53 PM
He has had two bad performances in prime time games this season. Fine. Now what about the rest of the season?? Why are you so obtuse to the "majority" of the season??

The only thing you Schaub bashers ever seem to come up with is that he isn't mobile. With that said, I guess you hate Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, and Matt Ryan then. All those guys run like sloths. God forbid a QB actually knows how to make reads, make accurate throws, read defensive formations before the snap, watch film and know the tendancies of different DB's that they face from week to week.

And I'm getting sick and tired of every time the Texans lose it always becomes on Schaub somehow. Or these ridiculous complaints all seem to be the fact that Schaub isn't capable of doing what Brady or Rogers can do. So ****ing what. He isn't an elite QB. Neither are the rest of the 28 QB's behind Brady, Rogers, Brees, and Manning. No one can do what these 4 can do. I'm so tired of people's bashing of Schaub when all they do is come up with these thing about him not being able to scramble as if that's the only thing that makes a QB successful.

The minute that the Texans offense has a bad game guys like you are waiting in the wings to bash him and act like he has always been some sort of liability even though the Texans offense is 3rd in scoring this season behind the Patriots and the Broncos. Schaub's offense has put up more points then Aaron Rodgers this year and also Drew Brees. Yet, the minute he has a bad game (Which every QB has a few) you guys want to nit pick him like he is David Carr. You want David Carr back?? Hey, he was mobile!! I'd think people would appreciate having a top 10 QB year after year, but apparently this franchise needs another David Carr for some of you guys to appreciate what a top 10 QB is. There are teams like the Bears who went like 25 years without finding a quality starter before Cutler and teams like the Dolphins who still haven't found a franchise QB to replace Marino and the 49ers as well since Steve Young left. And yet, you guys can't be happy with Schaub???? I wonder how long you guys have been watching the NFL sometimes, because elite QB's don't grow on trees and you have to have basically a 1-15 type of season to obtain one.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

mussop
12-22-2012, 12:20 AM
his yearly totals in passing yards disagrees with that.

apples and oranges my friend.

Norg
12-22-2012, 12:33 AM
You mean in that game where he couldn't even get a TD drive against the worst team in the league?? I don't want to see him, because if Yates starts against this year's Colts we will lose. This year's Colts are a good team with a great QB already. I don't care what Luck's stats say. He is already great. He'll be elite by his 3rd season and maybe by next year. Yates starts and we'll lose.


Ehhh i guess i have more confedence in our 2nd teamers then U i guess and On paper Colts D really is all that and a bag of chips yeah colts might have gotten better but does that mean Yates hasent gotten better our 2nd teir guys havent gotten better that what i wanna find out

Texecutioner
12-22-2012, 12:43 AM
apples and oranges my friend.

His yearly passing yards totals indicates that he totes it around the field a lot. Schaub is a guy that has even led the league in passing yards before. I'm sorry, but you don't have things like that on your resume if you're a guy who can't consistently throw down the field. Schaub just doesn't throw a laser like Rogers or Favre. Brady doesn't throw a laser either though. Schaub's throws get there just fine. NO QB is always accurate, but Schaub's movement down the field comes from somewhere. Arian Foster aint throwing to Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels.

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 12:58 AM
apples and oranges my friend.

BS. He gets the ball down field. This season in our "run oriented offense":

Matt Schaub 42 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.
Tom Brady 49 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.

And please, before you come at me with YAC go have that out with the guy who told me our WR's don't get any YAC.

Texecutioner
12-22-2012, 01:04 AM
BS. He gets the ball down field. This season in our "run oriented offense":

Matt Schaub 42 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.
Tom Brady 49 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.

And please, before you come at me with YAC go have that out with the guy who told me our WR's don't get any YAC.

Another thing is that a lot of Schaub's throws can be easier to catch then some of the throws from guys like Rogers or Cutler. Those guys throw with some velocity. Schaub's throws may be slower on the release slightly and with a little less zip, but they aren't smacking people's hands as hard either. II remember hearing interviews back in the day from Favre's receivers talking about how much practice you had to put in just o be able to catch his passes consistently. Either way, even if you were to think that Schaub has a noodle of an arm like some seem to feel, he's putting up really solid passing numbers year to year any way. His arm isn't a problem and it never has been.

Dutchrudder
12-22-2012, 01:19 AM
He also can't hit a WR in stride more than 20 yards down field to save his life. :peek:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/RavensWalterTD1.gif

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosAJTD2.gif

:kitten:

mussop
12-22-2012, 01:24 AM
BS. He gets the ball down field. This season in our "run oriented offense":

Matt Schaub 42 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.
Tom Brady 49 20+ yds and 8 40+ yds.

And please, before you come at me with YAC go have that out with the guy who told me our WR's don't get any YAC.

Has nothing to do with YAC. It has to do with his long ball accuracy. It's horrible. There was one game early this year where he actually threw 2 long passes that hit the WR's in stride. I thought, wow he's finally improved at it. It didn't take long to realize that those two passes were flukes. You haven't been paying attention if you think Schaub throws deep passes accurately. I don't care what stats you throw out he sucks at throwing the deep ball.

I'm not saying that Schaub sucks. Just pointing out an obvious weakness of his.

mussop
12-22-2012, 01:25 AM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/RavensWalterTD1.gif

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosAJTD2.gif

:kitten:

And for every one he hits in stride there are 3 that he over or under throws!

Textan
12-22-2012, 01:41 AM
Last game against the Colts Schaub woefully under-threw a wide open Andre Johnson, causing Johnson to make a herculian effort to catch the pass.
And comparing Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, to Schaub is absolutely ridiculous. He's not even in the same league, seriously.

Textan
12-22-2012, 01:53 AM
Another thing is that a lot of Schaub's throws can be easier to catch then some of the throws from guys like Rogers or Cutler. Those guys throw with some velocity. Schaub's throws may be slower on the release slightly and with a little less zip, but they aren't smacking people's hands as hard either. II remember hearing interviews back in the day from Favre's receivers talking about how much practice you had to put in just o be able to catch his passes consistently. Either way, even if you were to think that Schaub has a noodle of an arm like some seem to feel, he's putting up really solid passing numbers year to year any way. His arm isn't a problem and it never has been.

Let me get this straight, you want a floater throwing QB?
Did you think before you typed this?
Personally, I'd rather have a QB that throws with some serious zip.
To me the quicker a FB gets to its intended target the less likely it is to get intercepted. Almost certain it would be more accurate.
You believe receivers don't have to put in some serious practice to learn Schaub's floater balls?
Once again you're comparing Schaub to an elite QB. And once again Schaub's not even in the same league as a Favre. Believe Favre had some scrambling ability, something Schaub has never shown. Heck, even Yates showed some scrambling ability, much more than Schaub ever has.
Schaub's performances in prime time, especially against that Pats, was absolutely pitiful.
You push those glaring facts away as if they're meaningless.
As I said before, we shall see if Schaub can rise to the occasion in the play offs.
If his two prime time showings this year are any indication of how he'll rise, don't hold your breath.

Texecutioner
12-22-2012, 02:26 AM
Let me get this straight, you want a floater throwing QB?

I never said that. I want the guy with the zip, but that doesn't mean that I can't be happy with a guy with the floaters if he is efficient and gets the job done to have a high scoring offense. Schaub does that whether he throws 5 MPH to 100 MPH.



You believe receivers don't have to put in some serious practice to learn Schaub's floater balls?

I never said that either. Schaub throws a very easy catchable ball though. That's what I was saying. He may not have a rocket for an arm, but he delivers the ball nicely where his receivers can can catch it comfortably. I don't have to think Schaub's throws are super pretty to appreciate his ability to find his receivers and complete his passes.


Once again you're comparing Schaub to an elite QB. And once again Schaub's not even in the same league as a Favre. Believe Favre had some scrambling ability, something Schaub has never shown. Heck, even Yates showed some scrambling ability, much more than Schaub ever has.
Schaub's performances in prime time, especially against that Pats, was absolutely pitiful.


I'm comparing their style of throwing the ball. I'm explaining the fact that Schaub's arm has in no way shape or form stopped or prohibited him from being one of the league's better passers from year to year.


You push those glaring facts away as if they're meaningless.
As I said before, we shall see if Schaub can rise to the occasion in the play offs.
If his two prime time showings this year are any indication of how he'll rise, don't hold your breath.

So what if Schaub plays a good game in the playoffs, but the defense doesn't play well or there are a lot of drops at opportune times?? YOu seem ready to find a reason why Schaub isn't good the minute the Texans have a loss. You're putting to much on a QB that can't and never will carry this team. He isn't that type of class QB. He does a pretty strong job overall though.

TheMatrix31
12-22-2012, 02:39 AM
LOL.

He talks about a QB throwing balls with zip being less likely to be intercepted then brings up Brett Favre, the king of the high-risk, high-reward QBs.

You can't make this **** up.

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 03:08 AM
And for every one he hits in stride there are 3 that he over or under throws!

That one gif was of Schaub hitting a spot on pass 55 yds down the field. Now show us one of the last 10 50 yard passes Manning or Brady made. Not highlight reels - in a row.

But tell you what, before you try to go out and do that look at these stats for passes thrown more than 40 yards:

Peyton Manning 0 of 1
Tom Brady 0 of 6
Aaron Rodgers 1 of 6
Matt Schaub 3 of 4.

To be clear that is pass thrown distance, not including any YAC.

Let's see that is the three indisputable elite QB's at 1 of 13 and Schaub at 3 of 4. Last I checked 3 was more than 1 and 4 was less than 13.

But by all means please show he has no arm or accuracy compared to the league elite of which he is clearly not a member.

* disclaimer - this is not an argument Schaub is elite - it is an observation on fans' observations.

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 03:24 AM
Nice rant there Tex. And I agree with you. But I do think you undersell Yates.

He obviously feels Schaub is threatened by him. I don't think he undersells him at all.

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 03:31 AM
He obviously feels Schaub is threatened by him. I don't think he undersells him at all.

What was that like the concise version of you looking into both Tex and Schaub's minds doing a GP impersonation?

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 04:24 AM
I never said that. I want the guy with the zip, but that doesn't mean that I can't be happy with a guy with the floaters if he is efficient and gets the job done to have a high scoring offense. Schaub does that whether he throws 5 MPH to 100 MPH.

I never said that either. Schaub throws a very easy catchable ball though. That's what I was saying. He may not have a rocket for an arm, but he delivers the ball nicely where his receivers can can catch it comfortably. I don't have to think Schaub's throws are super pretty to appreciate his ability to find his receivers and complete his passes.

I'm comparing their style of throwing the ball. I'm explaining the fact that Schaub's arm has in no way shape or form stopped or prohibited him from being one of the league's better passers from year to year.

You're putting to much on a QB that can't and never will carry this team. He isn't that type of class QB. He does a pretty strong job overall though.

I'd trade Watt in a second to obtain RG3 or Luck. I have no doubt that both of these guys are going to be elite level QB's for a long time barring a crazy injury that effects their entire way of playing. QB is the most important position on the field to get the best player. Always has been and it always will be.


What would we gain with an elite quarterback?

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 04:25 AM
What was that like the concise version of you looking into both Tex and Schaub's minds doing a GP impersonation?

I seriously don't think Schaub feels threatened. No more than Watt feels threatened by Crick.

mussop
12-22-2012, 07:43 AM
That one gif was of Schaub hitting a spot on pass 55 yds down the field. Now show us one of the last 10 50 yard passes Manning or Brady made. Not highlight reels - in a row.

But tell you what, before you try to go out and do that look at these stats for passes thrown more than 40 yards:

Peyton Manning 0 of 1
Tom Brady 0 of 6
Aaron Rodgers 1 of 6
Matt Schaub 3 of 4.

To be clear that is pass thrown distance, not including any YAC.

Let's see that is the three indisputable elite QB's at 1 of 13 and Schaub at 3 of 4. Last I checked 3 was more than 1 and 4 was less than 13.

But by all means please show he has no arm or accuracy compared to the league elite of which he is clearly not a member.

* disclaimer - this is not an argument Schaub is elite - it is an observation on fans' observations.

Your observation is flawed because you are using stats instead of using your eyes. That might convince a jury in a court room that hadn't actually seen the throws but doesn't mean diddly squat to me. I watch him game after game, deep throw after deep throw not hit wide open WR's in stride.

My argument isn't that he doesn't complete them, it's that he is every inaccurate, too many time under or over throws the WR to the point where the WR has to make serious adjustment to catch the ball. Just because they catch it doesn't mean it's a good throw. He just doesn't throw the deep ball well with accuracy. If you want to go back and review every deep pass he has thrown over the last couple of years go ahead you might learn something you obviously have missed.

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 10:02 AM
Your observation is flawed because you are using stats instead of using your eyes. That might convince a jury in a court room that hadn't actually seen the throws but doesn't mean diddly squat to me. I watch him game after game, deep throw after deep throw not hit wide open WR's in stride.

My argument isn't that he doesn't complete them, it's that he is every inaccurate, too many time under or over throws the WR to the point where the WR has to make serious adjustment to catch the ball. Just because they catch it doesn't mean it's a good throw. He just doesn't throw the deep ball well with accuracy. If you want to go back and review every deep pass he has thrown over the last couple of years go ahead you might learn something you obviously have missed.

I think his numbers are spot on, as far as this conversation goes. Eyeball wise, if we saw Brady miss on all 6 of his 40+ yard passes, we'd think he was inaccurate. Peyton only attempting it one time may tell us that he "knows better" Rogers missing on 5 of 6 would also not pass the eyeball test.

However, that one pass to Walter in the gifs above, though it was a TD, that's not where I would have wanted that ball & like you said, Schaub fails the eyeball test on the 20 to 40 yard passes.

But again, I'm sure his numbers are similar to the QBs we say he isn't in the class of... Brady, Manning, Rogers.

I'm not a Schaub fan, so don't take this as me defending Schaub, only that 'cak's argument is relevant & evidence enough that the rest of us should probably reconsider our opinions of the "looks older than he really is" QB.

I'm an Aikman fan. & Troy was not very mobile. I think Troy understood ball placement much better than Schaub & his accuracy was off the chart (eyeball wise) in comparison.

But as Tex so vehemently professed, Schaub may very well be elite & we just don't know it. I know Tex didn't say it in so many words, but once you consider what Schaub has done & how long he's done it, it's kinda hard to argue. If we get to the Super Bowl & he plays the way he had at the beginning of the year (most notably Denver) or as well & efficiently as he did prior to getting hurt last year, it's going to be hard to deny & the conversation will get bigger at the national level.

Another season like this, with Schaub staying healthy, there won't be any doubt.

Exascor
12-22-2012, 10:25 AM
How about this guy? Texans Future QB (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89872&draftyear=2014&genpos=QB)

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it. :kitten:

Don't kill me!!!

76Texan
12-22-2012, 11:05 AM
How about this guy? Texans Future QB (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89872&draftyear=2014&genpos=QB)

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it. :kitten:

Don't kill me!!!

Why, I ought to ... :shoot::hunter::club:

:brando:

ObsiWan
12-22-2012, 12:14 PM
How about this guy? Texans Future QB (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89872&draftyear=2014&genpos=QB)

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it. :kitten:

Don't kill me!!!

You're just cruisin' for a bruisin' aintcha?
:wadepalm:

...seriously, nothing says this guy doesn't have a much better work ethic and football IQ than his older brother. Maybe he does. Everyone is worth a look.

I almost admire you for having the 'nads to post that link.

then again you're probably just :stirpot:

mussop
12-22-2012, 12:46 PM
I think his numbers are spot on, as far as this conversation goes. Eyeball wise, if we saw Brady miss on all 6 of his 40+ yard passes, we'd think he was inaccurate. Peyton only attempting it one time may tell us that he "knows better" Rogers missing on 5 of 6 would also not pass the eyeball test.

However, that one pass to Walter in the gifs above, though it was a TD, that's not where I would have wanted that ball & like you said, Schaub fails the eyeball test on the 20 to 40 yard passes.

But again, I'm sure his numbers are similar to the QBs we say he isn't in the class of... Brady, Manning, Rogers.

I'm not a Schaub fan, so don't take this as me defending Schaub, only that 'cak's argument is relevant & evidence enough that the rest of us should probably reconsider our opinions of the "looks older than he really is" QB.

I'm an Aikman fan. & Troy was not very mobile. I think Troy understood ball placement much better than Schaub & his accuracy was off the chart (eyeball wise) in comparison.

But as Tex so vehemently professed, Schaub may very well be elite & we just don't know it. I know Tex didn't say it in so many words, but once you consider what Schaub has done & how long he's done it, it's kinda hard to argue. If we get to the Super Bowl & he plays the way he had at the beginning of the year (most notably Denver) or as well & efficiently as he did prior to getting hurt last year, it's going to be hard to deny & the conversation will get bigger at the national level.

Another season like this, with Schaub staying healthy, there won't be any doubt.

That's a very logical conclusion however I pay special attention to the deep passes because it drove me crazy early on in Schuabs career. The stats being used to argue that he is an accurate deep ball thrower don't translate here. It doesn't matter how many completions he's thrown compared to other QB's. not one stat being tossed out here proves his deep ball accuracy which is all I'm debating. Again I'm not dogging Schaub or sayin he sucks or comparing him to anyone. I'm simply pointing out that one of his few weaknesses is his DEEP BALL ACCURACY. In other words his ability to hit receivers in stride.

Again the stats don't show how many times a WR had to stop or comeback to make the catch when had he been led it would of been a TD. They don't show how many times the WR has had to make a great play on the ball even though they had a step on the DB.

mussop
12-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Really I wouldn't mind seeing us draft any of these guys to push Yates for the backup sopt.
Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 1-2.
Wilson completed 62 percent of his passes for 3,387 yards, 21 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 2012.

Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
Height: 6-6. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.82.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Bray had a bunch of uneven games this year. He was repeatedly been hurt by dropped passes, but also had some shaky decision-making. The junior completed 59 percent of his passes this season, collecting 3,612 yards, 34 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.

Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Jones has completed 66 percent of his passes for 3,745 yards, 27 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.63.
Projected Round (2013): 1-3.
12/1/12: Boyd has completed 67 percent of his passes this year for 3,550 yards, 34 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He has run for 706 yards (492 net) and nine touchdowns, too.

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
Height: 6-2. Weight: 229.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Nassib has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,619 yards, 24 touchdowns and nine interceptions this year. He has displayed intelligence and accuracy this season.


Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
Height: 6-6. Weight: 232.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 2-3.
12/1/12: Glennon has completed 57 percent of his passes for 3,648 yards, 30 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. He has played better than his numbers indicate.

Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-1. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.81.
Projected Round (2013): 2-4.
12/1/12: Murray has completed 67 percent of his passes in 2012 for 3,201 yards, 30 touchdowns and seven interceptions

E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 234.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2013): 3-4.
12/1/12: Manuel is one of the most improved draft prospects in the nation. His accuracy and field vision have really made strides from 2011. He is elevating from a game manager to a play-maker. Manuel has completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,972 yards, 22 touchdowns and 16 interceptions this season. He has run the ball well for the Seminoles also.

Zac Dysert, QB, Miami of Ohio
Height: 6-4. Weight: 228.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2013): 3-5.
12/1/12: Dysert has completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,483 yards, 25 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 2012.

Colin Klein, QB, Kansas State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 226.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2013): 5-7.
12/1/12: Klein has been one of the best players in college football this season. He has been a superb play-maker who has carried the Wildcats to a great season.

Klein's completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,306 yards, 14 touchdowns and six interceptions this year. The senior has also ran for 20 touchdowns. He ran for 1,141 yards and 27 touchdowns in 2011 while throwing for 1,918 yards with 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.

Hookem Horns
12-22-2012, 01:35 PM
https://culturemedia.s3.amazonaws.com/cache/d2/7e/d27e3d3529d3fd1511f25d30206086ce.jpg

76Texan
12-22-2012, 03:13 PM
Last game against the Colts Schaub woefully under-threw a wide open Andre Johnson, causing Johnson to make a herculian effort to catch the pass.
And comparing Manning, Brady, Warner, Eli, to Schaub is absolutely ridiculous. He's not even in the same league, seriously.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly where the ball was supposed to be.

It's the equivalent of some 48 yard downfield from the LOS, the top of Schaub's range.

And he was some 10 yards behind of the LOS without much time to set up.

AJ knew where be needed to be to catch that ball.
He ran hard so that the DB had no time to look back for the ball.

You may not know it, but we had talked about this before (many many times) about how far he can throw the ball.
Nope, it was not underground.

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 03:27 PM
Your observation is flawed because you are using stats instead of using your eyes. That might convince a jury in a court room that hadn't actually seen the throws but doesn't mean diddly squat to me. I watch him game after game, deep throw after deep throw not hit wide open WR's in stride.

Nope, I use my eyes plenty. But I look all around the league. I think you are being hypercritical of the home team QB and not giving him a fair assessment in comparison to the competition. The stats are a reality check.

PS - I have watched all the same games. Sure there are balls I think could have been thrown better but the difference is I see that all over the league. The fact is the highlight reel catches by WR's are often balls which could have been thrown better. Lynn Swan is in the HoF for bailing out Bradshaw multiple times in the playoffs.

I'm an Aikman fan. & Troy was not very mobile. I think Troy understood ball placement much better than Schaub & his accuracy was off the chart (eyeball wise) in comparison.

That was absolutely one of Aikman's greatest strengths. Very few QB's have been as precise.

ObsiWan
12-22-2012, 03:44 PM
https://culturemedia.s3.amazonaws.com/cache/d2/7e/d27e3d3529d3fd1511f25d30206086ce.jpg
:foottap:
so you're doing it :stirpot: too, huh

mussop
12-22-2012, 05:19 PM
Nope, I use my eyes plenty. But I look all around the league. I think you are being hypercritical of the home team QB and not giving him a fair assessment in comparison to the competition. The stats are a reality check.

PS - I have watched all the same games. Sure there are balls I think could have been thrown better but the difference is I see that all over the league. The fact is the highlight reel catches by WR's are often balls which could have been thrown better. Lynn Swan is in the HoF for bailing out Bradshaw multiple times in the playoffs.

Again show me how the stats are a reality check. How do they prove Schaub throws the ball accurately when throwing deep? Like I said before, they have no merit in this conversation. I think it's you that is giving the hometown QB a pass. (no pun intended :)) Unless one of us or someone else has the time to go back and review all the deep passes Schaub has thrown in the last couple of years we will just have to agree to disagree.

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 05:57 PM
Again show me how the stats are a reality check. How do they prove Schaub throws the ball accurately when throwing deep? Like I said before, they have no merit in this conversation.

No, you're right. Clearly 1 of 13 from three elite QB's is all on perfectly thrown balls and the WR's for the Broncos, Packers and Patriots just suck.

I am overwhelmed by the persuasiveness of your "I don't give a stat" argument.

ObsiWan
12-22-2012, 06:06 PM
No, you're right. Clearly 1 of 13 from three elite QB's is all on perfectly thrown balls and the WR's for the Broncos, Packers and Patriots just suck.

I am overwhelmed by the persuasiveness of your "I don't give a stat" argument.

Hey... don't be bothering him with facts and stats; his mind is made up!
:fingergun:

mussop
12-22-2012, 08:09 PM
Hey... don't be bothering him with facts and stats; his mind is made up!
:fingergun:

You are right my mind is made up. And until he comes up with better evidence than some stupid ass stats that barely have anything to do with the conversation it will stay made up.

Tell me this, you line up 3 QB's and have them throw one after another a deep pass to a sprinting WR. At the end of the day is it conclusive that whichever one completed the most passes is the best?

Does Throwing the most completions mean he is the most accurate or even that he is accurate at all?

If two of them each complete 5 out of 10 of their passes does it mean they are equally as accurate.

The easy answer is yes to all these questions but it wouldn't necessarily be the right answer. There are many other factors involved that need to be taken Into consideration.

How many of the completion did the WR have to stop or come back to too catch?

How many we're just great catches by the WR?

How many of the incompletions were dropped?

Now factor in game situations. How many of the throws were thrown on the move or with a defensive player applying pressure?

And so on and so on. Stats are misleading and are only tell a small part of the whole story. You can use them as a guideline but to assume they are the be all end all is really pretty narrow minded.

Like I said earlier, the only true way to prove which of our perceptions is more accurate is to review all the deep throws he has made over the last couple of years and judge his accuracy using ALL the factors not just his completions compared to a few others.

But hell if deducing down to simple stats is all it takes convince you guys then I'm wasting my time.

ObsiWan
12-22-2012, 09:07 PM
You are right my mind is made up. And until he comes up with better evidence than some stupid ass stats that barely have anything to do with the conversation it will stay made up.

Tell me this, you line up 3 QB's and have them throw one after another a deep pass to a sprinting WR. At the end of the day is it conclusive that whichever one completed the most passes is the best?

Does Throwing the most completions mean he is the most accurate or even that he is accurate at all?

If two of them each complete 5 out of 10 of their passes does it mean they are equally as accurate.

The easy answer is yes to all these questions but it wouldn't necessarily be the right answer. There are many other factors involved that need to be taken Into consideration.

How many of the completion did the WR have to stop or come back to too catch?

How many we're just great catches by the WR?

How many of the incompletions were dropped?

Now factor in game situations. How many of the throws were thrown on the move or with a defensive player applying pressure?

And so on and so on. Stats are misleading and are only tell a small part of the whole story. You can use them as a guideline but to assume they are the be all end all is really pretty narrow minded.

Like I said earlier, the only true way to prove which of our perceptions is more accurate is to review all the deep throws he has made over the last couple of years and judge his accuracy using ALL the factors not just his completions compared to a few others.

But hell if deducing down to simple stats is all it takes convince you guys then I'm wasting my time.

It comes down to whether you believe accuracy or effectiveness is the more important characteristic. That those guys only completed only 1 of 13 opportunities - for whatever reason - while Schaub had a 75% success rate tells me he's at least more effective. Maybe not more accurate but way more effective on those long throws. And I'll take successful results over pretty but incomplete passes any day.

Thorn
12-22-2012, 09:13 PM
With Schaub as QB, we'd probably have been in the AFC championship game last year. And that's the next to last game I expect we'll play this year.

mussop
12-22-2012, 09:29 PM
It comes down to whether you believe accuracy or effectiveness is the more important characteristic. That those guys only completed only 1 of 13 opportunities - for whatever reason - while Schaub had a 75% success rate tells me he's at least more effective. Maybe not more accurate but way more effective on those long throws. And I'll take successful results over pretty but incomplete passes any day.

In this situation effectiveness is the result of more than just an individual and many factors. I can't understand how you don't see that. Of course you believe Rodgers is only slightly better than Schaub because of stats so....... :clown:

amazing80
12-22-2012, 10:02 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/RavensWalterTD1.gif

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosAJTD2.gif

:kitten:

for each of those, there are these


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQMK89xsbXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKJZxalrEc

And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches

infantrycak
12-22-2012, 10:47 PM
And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches

I agree our schemes are good but this is a seriously BS argument - as if other teams aren't scheming to get their receivers open. Yeah the other 31 teams are just playing sandlot football - umm, Calvin you go on a pitch and Titus you go on a hitch.

In the two gifs you quoted nobody was wide open and AJ did not have to make a herculean catch - and that was a 55 yard in the air perfectly in stride thrown ball. AJ certainly goes herculean at times - it is what great receivers do (and they do it because QB's, all of them, make poor or imperfect throws). Try finding a highlight clip for a WR which doesn't have him making dramatic catches on imperfectly thrown balls.

I am not making an argument Schaub is the most accurate QB around. I am saying the assertions of his noodle arm and inaccuracy are overstated when comparing him to other QB's instead of a vacuum.

ObsiWan
12-22-2012, 11:35 PM
And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches

That "Herculean" description applies to any QB. That's not unique to Schaub.
NFLN just showed a highlight reel of some of Rodgers' TD tosses this season (they were posing the question "Is Rodgers the best QB in football today?") and half of the scoring tosses they showed the WR had to leap over the DB to make the catch or make a diving grab to complete the play. I'm pretty sure Brady, Manning, et. al. sometimes just toss the thing in the area of his guy and depends on him to make the play. In fact I've heard Brady say as much about Gronk or Welker in post-game pressers. So that "Herculean catch" thing is what the WRs get paid to do. If I have a WR who can only make a catch when the ball hits him in stride and on the numbers then I'm looking to replace him. Because any REASONABLE person knows every pass won't be perfect.

leebigeztx
12-23-2012, 02:04 AM
I think kubes is always looking for that guy who fits the mold for his offense. He can get by with schaub and his limitations because he was trying to get the team moving forward. Just like he and shanny managed to get jake plummer and griese in the pro bowl, when he had the chance to get a mobile guy with a big arm(cutler) they did it. Kubes is looking for that guy even while he's winning with schaub. If I were the texans in this draft, if Manuel or bray are there in the 3rd rd, I would draft either 1. Geno falling is a wet dream, bridgewater still has 2 yrs left. Its never a wrong time to develop the qb position.

Dutchrudder
12-23-2012, 03:12 AM
for each of those, there are these


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQMK89xsbXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKJZxalrEc

And those plus 20 and plus 40 yarders are flawed, because our scheme leaves guys wide open OR you have AJ making Herculean catches

The assertion was that Schaub can't throw accurately past 20 yards, both of those plays were well beyond that, so your response has absolutely nothing to do with it. Thanks for playing though. :clown:

infantrycak
12-23-2012, 04:33 AM
The assertion was that Schaub can't throw accurately past 20 yards, both of those plays were well beyond that, so your response has absolutely nothing to do with it. Thanks for playing though. :clown:

But, but ... you just don't understand, their eyeballs tell them differently.

mussop
12-23-2012, 12:21 PM
But, but ... you just don't understand, their eyeballs tell them differently.

Don't even try mixing what I have been saying with his post. Your use of sarcasm is typical of someone who jumps into a conversation without a well thought out response. You threw out a few stats and thought they cemented your case when in reality all they did was show you weren't prepared to join this conversation.

Go ahead and base all your opinions of stats it will just make you look foolish. I prefer to use a more objective way of coming to my conclusions. And yes my eyeballs are one of those objective ways. I know when Schaub has time to set his feet and get a throw of without pressure, a very high percentage of his deep passes are not on target to where the WR can catch the ball in stride. Now go find a stat that is conclusive by showing all the variables I have laid out for you that proves differently and you will have convinced me. Until then you're just blowing out a lot of hot air.

DX-TEX
12-23-2012, 12:22 PM
Joe Flacco.....yes I am serious.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 12:30 PM
The assertion was that Schaub can't throw accurately past 20 yards, both of those plays were well beyond that, so your response has absolutely nothing to do with it. Thanks for playing though. :clown:

Where did I ever say anything CLOSE TO THAT? Matt Schaub has a great short game, average medium game and terrible deep game. He will loft it up there and sometimes he hits it, most of the time its under thrown, to dispute that is just ignorance and being a complete homer. No one here ever said Matt is garbage, but again, I keep pointing this out but no one is comprehending the simple FACT, that this thread is about FUTURE QB and my only point is, TJ Yates, has the best shot at the job and he should. Everything else (all 10 pages) is useless garbage and bickering for no reason.....Good day sir

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 12:55 PM
But as Tex so vehemently professed, Schaub may very well be elite & we just don't know it. I know Tex didn't say it in so many words, but once you consider what Schaub has done & how long he's done it, it's kinda hard to argue. If we get to the Super Bowl & he plays the way he had at the beginning of the year (most notably Denver) or as well & efficiently as he did prior to getting hurt last year, it's going to be hard to deny & the conversation will get bigger at the national level.

Another season like this, with Schaub staying healthy, there won't be any doubt.

To make the record clear, I was never suggesting that Schaub is elite. No way. I've stated the opposite, but that I was perfectly fine with that. Elite QB's only exist in numbers like 1-4. That means there are around 26 to 28 teams that won't have one. But having a QB that is around that 7-12 range is pretty damn good, and with all the other pieces built around a QB like that, well you can certainly still put together a nice winning formula. THe Texans have now. That's for sure. I won't expect Schaub to do things that mainly only elite QB's pull off consistently though. That isn't realistic. I used to have to argue with some of the posters in here who would try to suggest that Schaub was elite. And that was always silly to me, because Schaub had never even been in a playoff situation, but he was putting up great numbers. The people that want Schaub out of here have no real plan on how to bring in someone better. If there was one, I'd certainly be willing to listen. But the minute that Yates somehow becomes a part of that discussion is when it gets ridiculous.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 01:15 PM
To make the record clear, I was never suggesting that Schaub is elite. No way. I've stated the opposite, but that I was perfectly fine with that. Elite QB's only exist in numbers like 1-4. That means there are around 26 to 28 teams that won't have one. But having a QB that is around that 7-12 range is pretty damn good, and with all the other pieces built around a QB like that, well you can certainly still put together a nice winning formula. THe Texans have now. That's for sure. I won't expect Schaub to do things that mainly only elite QB's pull off consistently though. That isn't realistic. I used to have to argue with some of the posters in here who would try to suggest that Schaub was elite. And that was always silly to me, because Schaub had never even been in a playoff situation, but he was putting up great numbers. The people that want Schaub out of here have no real plan on how to bring in someone better. If there was one, I'd certainly be willing to listen. But the minute that Yates somehow becomes a part of that discussion is when it gets ridiculous.

Why does it become ridiculous to think a legit back up who is young and has great tools will become a game manager at the least, like you just described Schaub as.

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 01:26 PM
Why does it become ridiculous to think a legit back up who is young and has great tools will become a game manager at the least, like you just described Schaub as.

If you want a game manager as your QB, then you have really low standards and didn't pay any attention at all to the post where I displayed the last 10 years of SB winning QB's and what the common denominator was. ANd I never described Schaub as a game manager in any post, so please don't lie about things I never stated again.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 01:40 PM
If you want a game manager as your QB, then you have really low standards and didn't pay any attention at all to the post where I displayed the last 10 years of SB winning QB's and what the common denominator was. ANd I never described Schaub as a game manager in any post, so please don't lie about things I never stated again.

Schaub is proving my point today, nuff' said

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 01:48 PM
Schaub is proving my point today, nuff' said

This response is a typical extension of the rest of your responses that have not made any strong argument at all against Schaub. Your only argument you've used steady is an eyeball test. Lol!

76Texan
12-23-2012, 01:51 PM
Did you just see Romo under throw the receiver there?
What a noodle arm !

amazing80
12-23-2012, 01:54 PM
This response is a typical extension of the rest of your responses that have not made any strong argument at all against Schaub. Your only argument you've used steady is an eyeball test. Lol!

Ive stated he has a weak arm and he is not mobile, no stat in the world can prove or disprove that, you have to use your eyes to compare him to others in the league.....using logic against you is useless I see

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Ive stated he has a weak arm and he is not mobile, no stat in the world can prove or disprove that, you have to use your eyes to compare him to others in the league.....using logic against you is useless I see

Your attempts at it in this thread certainly have been. A guy bashing Schaub's year to year stellar play at running a good offense against an unproven 6th round pick who showed absolutely nothing last season is laughable. ANd when one's logic is to bash and point fingers the minute every time Schaub has an average game or less while completely ignoring the much larger majority of games where he plays well and leads this team to victories isn't "logical" at all.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Talk about complete false rhetoric to suggest that Yates is some highly sought after QB. WHat a crock. There isn't any teams out there trying to get Yates out of Houston. ANd there won't be either. And yeah, there were several people trying to make Brady comparisons last season because they were drafted in the same draft. There were a ton of people saying he should be the starter over Schaub in the off season, and everyone can spare me with this total BS that Yates took the Texans to the playoffs or "epitomized" this next man up garbage. Yates was "dragged" to the playoffs by a team that had a great running game and a great defense. Yates was awful down the stretch of the season. He was dreadful and Kubiak never trusted him either. Our offense was horrible with him in there and we lost to the Colts for crying out loud.

The Texans aren't even close to moving on from Schaub. They're 12-2 with Schaub and were on a winning streak with a very good offense last season with Schaub.

I swear, you guys don't seem to realize at all that the Texans offense right now is the 3rd highest scoring offense in the league. That means that Schaub has led an offense that can put up points all year long and until a few weeks ago they were #2 behind the Patriots. And this is all behind an offense where most people think that Foster is not the same and Tate has been out and where we have a ton of lousy #2 WR's.

Schaub and Yates aren't even in the same dimension of QB's.



You should be excluded from this conversation for even attempting to compare Yates to Andrew Luck. Luck has carried a 1-15 team on his back all season long. He has made several come back victories and is already one of the better QB's in this league. Trying to cherry pick some type of worthless stats from Yates to Luck is one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen in here.

What tells you that? Because statistically through their first 5 games there were VERY similar, so if stats say they were the same, how can you possibly dispute that?

amazing80
12-23-2012, 02:10 PM
Your attempts at it in this thread certainly have been. A guy bashing Schaub's year to year stellar play at running a good offense against an unproven 6th round pick who showed absolutely nothing last season is laughable. ANd when one's logic is to bash and point fingers the minute every time Schaub has an average game or less while completely ignoring the much larger majority of games where he plays well and leads this team to victories isn't "logical" at all.

LOL he has BARELY ever done this....he cost us more games than he won

Textan
12-23-2012, 02:36 PM
Can you imagine how good the Texans would be with a genuine elite QB?
A real leader. A guy who you have no doubt could lead the team to a game winning drive with two minutes left. A guy who can scramble. A guy who throws bullets on target. A guy who hits wide open receivers in stride.
We can only imagine. Schaubs not going anywhere anytime soon.

mussop
12-23-2012, 02:54 PM
Wow kooky there another deep throw overthrown by Schaub. 3rd qt 9.30

Textan
12-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Wow kooky there another deep throw overthrown by Schaub. 3rd qt 9.30
Must have been a floater?

mussop
12-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Let me add another obvious weakness of Schaubs. He panics way to much and throws the ball before he has to. He plays scared and gets rattled too easy. That and poor accuracy on deep passes is what separates him from the elite QBs.

amazing80
12-23-2012, 03:02 PM
Let me add another obvious weakness of Schaubs. He panics way to much and throws the ball before he has to. He plays scared and gets rattled too easy. That and poor accuracy on deep passes is what separates him from the elite QBs.

How dare you use logic and your eyes to evaluate someone, there is NO room for logic like yours in this thread, please exit immediately :bat: Schaub made a completion and got a couple yards, who gives a damn about first downs its all about stats

GuerillaBlack
12-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Did you just see Romo under throw the receiver there?
What a noodle arm !

Romo also evaded tacklers, something Schaub never does. Slow as a damn sloth. Tired of Schaub. Stat-padding machine.

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 03:16 PM
Can you imagine how good the Texans would be with a genuine elite QB?
A real leader. A guy who you have no doubt could lead the team to a game winning drive with two minutes left. A guy who can scramble. A guy who throws bullets on target. A guy who hits wide open receivers in stride.
We can only imagine. Schaubs not going anywhere anytime soon.

Duh!! Couldn't you say that about every team in this league who doesn't have one of the 4 elite guys?

What is the point in saying this if you can't get your hands on a guy who does all of that and is capable of throwing 35 TD's a year? You guys are clueless to the fact that you can't just go pick a guy off the street to do that. Unless you're going to suggest that the Texans completely tank their games for the next two years in order to get a #1 draft pick there is no way of getting a QB like that.

mussop
12-23-2012, 03:17 PM
How dare you use logic and your eyes to evaluate someone, there is NO room for logic like yours in this thread, please exit immediately :bat: Schaub made a completion and got a couple yards, who gives a damn about first downs its all about stats

But, but ... you just don't understand, stats tell them differently.


Stats are facts don't you know?:rake:

Premier
12-23-2012, 03:19 PM
the texans could be better with a ton of different guys who arent elite.. this idea that the only upgrade over schaub is an elite guy is nonsense.. theres a ton of room that separates schaub from elite.. any of the guys who fall into that area between elite to schaub would be an upgrade..

Textan
12-23-2012, 03:22 PM
Duh!! Couldn't you say that about every team in this league who doesn't have one of the 4 elite guys?

What is the point in saying this if you can't get your hands on a guy who does all of that and is capable of throwing 35 TD's a year? You guys are clueless to the fact that you can't just go pick a guy off the street to do that. Unless you're going to suggest that the Texans completely tank their games for the next two years in order to get a #1 draft pick there is no way of getting a QB like that.
Somehow other teams do it, why not the Texans?
Can't a guy dream. Do you have something against hope?
And, the Texans were pretty much awful up until these last few years, why didn't we obtain an elite QB, instead of the Sloth?

Brisco_County
12-23-2012, 03:24 PM
Teams know that Schaub is ineffective when mobile. Designate one defensive lineman to pursue on the bootleg, and it'll be busted most of the time. A scramble is an automatic incompletion. That's why Houston fans get envious when they see Cousins execute the bootleg flawlessly on his first try.

mussop
12-23-2012, 03:25 PM
the texans could be better with a ton of different guys who arent elite.. this idea that the only upgrade over schaub is an elite guy is nonsense.. theres a ton of room that separates schaub from elite.. any of the guys who fall into that area between elite to schaub would be an upgrade..

According to some here there is very little difference between Schaub and the elite. They even have STATS/FACTS to back up their claims of his QB greatness.

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 03:30 PM
Somehow other teams do it, why not the Texans?
Can't a guy dream. Do you have something against hope?
And, the Texans were pretty much awful up until these last few years, why didn't we obtain an elite QB, instead of the Sloth?

Other teams do it? What the hell are you talking about? There are only like 4 teams that have elite QB's right now, so you are way off base to say something inaccurate like that. Ask the Dolphins, Niners, Bills, Bears, Cowboys, Jets, and a ton of other QB's around the league how hard it is to find an elite QB much less even a good one.

And what difference does it make about what the Texans didn't do several years ago? Who cares about that now? You can't change any of that. What the Texans did do is stack up a ton of great players like Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Reed, and out LT which have all contributed towards having the best team in the league in case you have forgotten. Oh, but we screwed up so badly by not drafting a QB every year until we potentially found an elite one. You sound like such a band wagoner.

Textan
12-23-2012, 03:43 PM
Other teams do it? What the hell are you talking about? There are only like 4 teams that have elite QB's right now, so you are way off base to say something inaccurate like that. Ask the Dolphins, Niners, Bills, Bears, Cowboys, Jets, and a ton of other QB's around the league how hard it is to find an elite QB much less even a good one.

And what difference does it make about what the Texans didn't do several years ago? Who cares about that now? You can't change any of that. What the Texans did do is stack up a ton of great players like Cushing, Watt, Jackson, Reed, and out LT which have all contributed towards having the best team in the league in case you have forgotten. Oh, but we screwed up so badly by not drafting a QB every year until we potentially found an elite one. You sound like such a band wagoner.

You can call me stupid. You can say I'm uninformed, misinformed, idiotic, ridiculous, moronic, pessimistic, heck anything but a Band Wagoner.
You have offended me sir.
You brought up the point that the Texans could tank for the next few years and secure a number one draft pick. I countered that the Texans pretty much sucked up until a few years back. Why didn't we get that elite QB then?
NO gets Brees. Denver gets Manning. Giants get younger Manning. Packers get Rodgers. San Fran has two pretty damn good QB's, how did that happen?
Heck, even Washington gets RG III.
So, while I understand most teams don't get elite, scrambling, and accurate QB's, some do.
We need to be that some.
This argument is moot for the most part. I'm a realist and know the Texans aren't getting rid of Sloth for a long time to come.

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 04:10 PM
You can call me stupid. You can say I'm uninformed, misinformed, idiotic, ridiculous, moronic, pessimistic, heck anything but a Band Wagoner.
You have offended me sir.
You brought up the point that the Texans could tank for the next few years and secure a number one draft pick. I countered that the Texans pretty much sucked up until a few years back. Why didn't we get that elite QB then?
NO gets Brees. Denver gets Manning. Giants get younger Manning. Packers get Rodgers. San Fran has two pretty damn good QB's, how did that happen?
Heck, even Washington gets RG III.
So, while I understand most teams don't get elite, scrambling, and accurate QB's, some do.
We need to be that some.
This argument is moot for the most part. I'm a realist and know the Texans aren't getting rid of Sloth for a long time to come.


Which isn't a bad deal at the end of the day. I'd like a mobile QB as well. I love QB's like that, but we don't "need" to have one to have a very good offense. You can use Sloth, and before this week we're the 3rd HIGHEST SCORING TEAM in the league. You guys are obviously not aware of that or don't understand what is supposed to win games. Points are what win games, and there is no denying that Schaub's ability at QB is giving us a strong chance to win games when this team's record is what it is and when we're 3rd in points scored compared to 29 other teams in this league.

Schaub may have limitations, but so do a ton of other QB's in this league. That doesn't mean that this team can't be great in several other areas which should equal a ton of wins which this team has this year.

Textan
12-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Yes, points and a good defense win games.
I want to see how Schaub performs in the play offs. Given his last two prime time performances I'm not filled with an overwhelming sense of confidence.
And for Schaub to perform well all other offensive mechanisms have to work almost flawlessly. A tiny bit of pressure and Schaub's thrown for a loop. Wouldn't it be great if we had a guy who didn't have a complete conniption, meltdown, sloth-like reaction, to an ounce of pressure?
Yes, many QB's meltdown when given an ounce of pressure.
He performs great in the play offs I'll lay off my constant criticism of him, seriously.

Texecutioner
12-23-2012, 05:04 PM
Meanwhile TJ Yates gets in there and immediately turns the ball over. Lol!! so much for that.

JamesBill
12-23-2012, 05:36 PM
Kubiak needs to pick a QB in the draft, higher rounds, that might actually have a shot at starting. Not a TJ who can be a cheap backup and POSSIBLY a trade asset. He is a great QB coach, he should get a guy that with work can come out of the second round and challenge Schaub.

This 5th round, scrap heap FA strategy will never land you anything special.

legacy_gt
12-23-2012, 06:18 PM
david carr

Premier
12-23-2012, 06:32 PM
damn, look at flacco shredding the giants defense.. strong arm, extending plays, and making throws in tight coverage... who said he was terrible..
given the choice between the 2, ide take flacco every time..

thunderkyss
12-23-2012, 07:02 PM
That was absolutely one of Aikman's greatest strengths. Very few QB's have been as precise.

I know. But if Matt is the guy we think he is, I think he needs to get into that realm. He doesn't have the arm, doesn't have the wheels, doesn't have the "climb on my back" thing going for him.

thunderkyss
12-23-2012, 07:05 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/RavensWalterTD1.gif

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosAJTD2.gif

:kitten:

I think you've figured it out.

We need to wear the Battle Red Jersies throughout the play offs & change our home colors back to the White Ones.

Exascor
12-23-2012, 07:34 PM
How about this guy? Texans Future QB (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89872&draftyear=2014&genpos=QB)

He's got the arm, size and family pedigree to be a great QB. I'm sure his family has told him to be a QB before anything else in life. He won't be in the draft this year and we may have to trade up to get him but he might just be worth it. :kitten:

Don't kill me!!!I was just joking but...

Dutchrudder
12-23-2012, 08:39 PM
Where did I ever say anything CLOSE TO THAT? Matt Schaub has a great short game, average medium game and terrible deep game. He will loft it up there and sometimes he hits it, most of the time its under thrown, to dispute that is just ignorance and being a complete homer. No one here ever said Matt is garbage, but again, I keep pointing this out but no one is comprehending the simple FACT, that this thread is about FUTURE QB and my only point is, TJ Yates, has the best shot at the job and he should. Everything else (all 10 pages) is useless garbage and bickering for no reason.....Good day sir

Maybe you should read the conversation before interjecting irrelevant stuff. The post I was responding to said exactly that. It's pretty plain to see Schaub can throw more than 20 yards accurately, but all the stuff you're talking about has nothing to do with that.

MEGA SWATT
12-23-2012, 08:48 PM
Matt was a total wimp today. I get that he's trying to stay healthy so he can get to the playoffs -but man-he really has no ability to scramble and make a play -he's immediately looking to throw it away or go down to the ground.:wadepalm:

coon
12-23-2012, 10:04 PM
Matt Schaub can be the starting Qb of a superbowl caliber team, but he cannot carry it. He is Trent Dilfer on steroids, a very very good game manager. We shouldn't sell the farm to trade up for a Qb unless he is generational type of talent. With that said we should invest a first day pick on someone who has a chance to be elite any chance we get. Imagine if we take Russell Wilson late second and he is being groomed for the future. There are prospects that have the tools more than we tend to think, and if Kubiak is the Qb guru we think he is he could groom them to reach their full potential. Mallet, Oswieler, Cousins, even a guy like Colt McCoy could benefit from very good Qb development and be just as good if not better than Schaub.

coon
12-23-2012, 10:05 PM
Also, Mallett is the guy I would like to get if we are talking bringing in a young Qb from some other roster.

EVOLVIST
12-23-2012, 10:07 PM
I suddenly have the urge to take a sh!t.

GuerillaBlack
12-23-2012, 11:09 PM
I feel like crying watching Russel Wilson play right now, knowing he was available.

Norg
12-23-2012, 11:26 PM
what sucks is next year the QB class is so trash is what there projecting maybe in the F/A ... but IDK its to early to see

Texecutioner
12-24-2012, 12:05 AM
I feel like crying watching Russel Wilson play right now, knowing he was available.

Why? Why would you feel that way? Had he not been drafted when he was there is no telling how far he would have sunk in the draft. There is nothing to hold against the Texans or any other team for passing on Wilson. He is a huge surprise that Carroll deserves a huge pat on the back for not only seeing, but also starting.

76Texan
12-24-2012, 12:12 AM
Why? Why would you feel that way? Had he not been drafted when he was there is no telling how far he would have sunk in the draft. There is nothing to hold against the Texans or any other team for passing on Wilson. He is a huge surprise that Carroll deserves a huge pat on the back for not only seeing, but also starting.

Not surprise from this corner, even as I like Keenum, I also like Wilson.

I even suggested that the Texans take both of them and let them battle with Yates. I actually like both of them better than Yates, and I don't dislike Yates.

Texecutioner
12-24-2012, 12:15 AM
Not surprise from this corner, even as I like Keenum, I also like Wilson.

I even suggested that the Texans take both of them and let them battle with Yates. I actually like both of them better than Yates, and I don't dislike Yates.

Everyone is under this idea now that it is so easy to just start draftimg 2nd and 3rd rounders at QB just because of WIlson and Kapernick's success. They're completely forgetting about the dozens of others who end up being average or not really any good that teams run through and have no success with. I'd rather stick with Schaub and wait for that great prospect, and I'd be willing to trade several #1 draft picks for a can't miss guy in the top 5. Those are usually the guys that end up being elite. The odds are a lot higher any way.

76Texan
12-24-2012, 12:18 AM
Everyone is under this idea now that it is so easy to just start draftimg 2nd and 3rd rounders at QB just because of WIlson and Kapernick's success. They're completely forgetting about the dozens of others who end up being average or not really any good that teams run through and have no success with. I'd rather stick with Schaub and wait for that great prospect, and I'd be willing to trade several #1 draft picks for a can't miss guy in the top 5. Those are usually the guys that end up being elite. The odds are a lot higher any way.

The odds work for you when you do your homework.

In the mock draft section, I just brought back a thread on receivers yesterday.

In it, I said that Wilson, Keenum, and RG III were the 3 QBs that played the best under pressure during their college career.
That's where they derived their success from.

That's what you look for in a QB.

amazing80
12-24-2012, 12:21 AM
Everyone is under this idea now that it is so easy to just start draftimg 2nd and 3rd rounders at QB just because of WIlson and Kapernick's success. They're completely forgetting about the dozens of others who end up being average or not really any good that teams run through and have no success with. I'd rather stick with Schaub and wait for that great prospect, and I'd be willing to trade several #1 draft picks for a can't miss guy in the top 5. Those are usually the guys that end up being elite. The odds are a lot higher any way.

I don't disagree with this at all, its easy to say you "knew" a guy would be good, but hind sight is always 20/20...the point is though, Yates has the potential to be much better than Schaub

Norg
12-24-2012, 12:25 AM
its really bad when the top F/A QBs next year are Jason cambell and Matt moore

and i dont follow the QB class that much but that looks grimm esp when we pick in the top 20's

u think the Ravens will release Flacco ...????? ehhhh IDK


David carr Vince young Tebow anybody LOL

Texecutioner
12-24-2012, 12:26 AM
I don't disagree with this at all, its easy to say you "knew" a guy would be good, but hind sight is always 20/20...the point is though, Yates has the potential to be much better than Schaub

You lose any cred when you mention Yates. I'm tired of talking about him or even discussing his name. He's back up. He'll always be a back up. Get over it and accept it or go root for another team, because Schaub isn't going anywhere any time soon. You say you agreed with what I just wrote, but then start bringing up a sorry ass 6th rounder who played like trash at this time last season, so you're a total contradiction to even suggest Yates. I'm all for hearing about other guys in the up coming drafts. I'd like to find a Schaub replacement for the future, but I want a guy who looks like a can't miss where the margin of error on the guy is very slim. You want a guy that can be an average starter at best if he hits his peak completely. It is no point in me discussing QB's with you because you aren't even suggesting anything that has value to the discussion at this point.

amazing80
12-24-2012, 12:30 AM
You lose any cred when you mention Yates. I'm tired of talking about him or even discussing his name. He's back up. He'll always be a back up. Get over it and accept it or go root for another team, because Schaub isn't going anywhere any time soon. You say you agreed with what I just wrote, but then start bringing up a sorry ass 6th rounder who played like trash at this time last season, so you're a total contradiction to even suggest Yates. I'm all for hearing about other guys in the up coming drafts. I'd like to find a Schaub replacement for the future, but I want a guy who looks like a can't miss where the margin of error on the guy is very slim. You want a guy that can be an average starter at best if he hits his peak completely. It is no point in me discussing QB's with you because you aren't even suggesting anything that has value to the discussion at this point.

You rip me for suggesting Yates when you think he is average at best but you continue to defend Schaub, and you have the nerve to question my credit and suggest I root for another team? LOL, who died and appointed you Texan fan HR manager?

Texecutioner
12-24-2012, 02:13 AM
You rip me for suggesting Yates when you think he is average at best but you continue to defend Schaub, and you have the nerve to question my credit and suggest I root for another team? LOL, who died and appointed you Texan fan HR manager?

I'm just trying to point out that Schaub isn't going anywhere any time soon. It seems like you feel as if he is incapable completely. But the franchise is very loyal to Schaub and I don't see that changing no matter what you or I feel as far as how good he is for this team. He is going to be the guy for probably at least another two years.

coon
12-24-2012, 03:39 AM
Schaub will and should be the guy for the immediate future, but we should always be looking to upgrade at the most important position in football. This team has alot of young talent on both sides of the ball, and with a top tier Qb we can win for a long time. There are guys are taken outside of the top ten with all the physical tools to be very good to great Qb's. Brees 2nd rd, Brady 5th rd, wilson 3rd rd, rodgers 24th pick, dalton 2nd rd, Romo UFA. Fortunately for us we do have Schaub and arent in a position to hastily grab someone out of need. I just think that if a player comes along that has the physical tools, and more importantly the mental tools to develop into a high level guy we should take him no matter what pick is used and let him develop under Schaub until he beats him out. I remember how high 76 was on Keenum, I hope your right about him buddy.

otisbean
12-24-2012, 07:24 AM
I wouldn't say you can't win it all with Schaub, but I will say if we are going to continue to roll with him as our QB we have to dramatically improve the OL. Schaub is clearly bothered by pressure and could be one of the least mobile QBs in the league.

amazing80
12-24-2012, 08:45 AM
The only way we win with Schaub is if AF dominates the game and Andre makes ridiculous catches and our defense plays lights out, won't be BECAUSE of Matt, it will be IN SPITE of Matt

DocBar
12-24-2012, 11:10 AM
I still want to know how much of Schaub's play is on him and how much is due to direct orders from Kubiak. Is Schaub not allowed to scramble due to fear of injury? Is automatically assume the fetal position at the slightest hint of pressure directed from Kubiak to prevent injury or a fumble?

I've seen too many busted plays that Schaub could've scrambled for positive yardage but instead threw the ball away.

If Kubiak does make the above decisions, is it because Schaub is fragile or exceptionally unatheletic?

Right now I'm not the biggest Schaub fan in the world but I'm not ready to place all of the blame on him without knowing the facts.

Premier
12-24-2012, 11:35 AM
schaub doesnt change protection at the line and blitzers shoot the gap, then folks blame the o-line.. how much blame was put on the o-line yesterday for schaubs failures..

Mr teX
12-24-2012, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't say you can't win it all with Schaub, but I will say if we are going to continue to roll with him as our QB we have to dramatically improve the OL. Schaub is clearly bothered by pressure and could be one of the least mobile QBs in the league.

I'll pose the same question to you that i've posed to others in here and have seemingly gotten no credible response back. Regarding the bolded above, name a qb outside of the top 5 that isn't bothered by pressure.

You guys love to sit up here & make these blanket generalizations about Schaub's ability & the sad thing is, you don't even realize that the same is true for every other qb in the league. Hell, even the elite have issues dealing with pressure at times. Did you happen to see Brady in his last 2 SB appearances & in that Baltimore playoff game a few years back? What about "Matty ice" in the playoff game against the packers in 2010? Hell, There's a 2 time SB winning qb in NY that has looked like a complete clown the last few games b/c he's been under constant pressure.

but for some strange reason folks here think that Schaub is supposed to handle it 100% better than even the elite do & all we need to do is go out & get a more mobile qb & we'll be good. Clearly some of you haven't been watching college / NFL football for very long.

Yes, a qb who's a little more mobile might've been able to make a few more things happen, but the rule proven in the NFL over the last 6789 years is that a qb under pressure is a qb that's going to have trouble making plays & moving the offense period. This is b/c pressure usually results in moving guys off of their spot & jacks up the timing of the play. This obviously affects traditional pocket passers like schaub more than mobile qb's but with mobile qb's, accuracy is usually what's compromised the most when they're under pressure...so for every play they may make there's usually a bad play right around the corner. How many mobile qb's do u have to see come thru the league for this to be written in stone is up to you.

#2, there's a reason why they say "a running game is a qb's best friend". Pretty self explanatory if you understand the game... Keeps the pressure off the qb opens up passing lanes, controls the clock etc. Yesterday, between Foster & Tate, we rushed for a whopping 32 yds...nuff said.

You add in the dropped passes & you've got a recipe for a what schaub did yesterday.

If we all agree that Schaub isn't elite (which you guys say you do) why get so pissed off & call for the guys head when he doesn't do "elite" qb things?

robroy72
12-24-2012, 12:21 PM
its really bad when the top F/A QBs next year are Jason cambell and Matt moore

and i dont follow the QB class that much but that looks grimm esp when we pick in the top 20's

u think the Ravens will release Flacco ...????? ehhhh IDK


David carr Vince young Tebow anybody LOL

You forgot Jamarcus Russel....

Mr teX
12-24-2012, 12:27 PM
schaub doesnt change protection at the line and blitzers shoot the gap, then folks blame the o-line.. how much blame was put on the o-line yesterday for schaubs failures..

See this is what i'm talking about right here.


protection at the LOS is 9 out of 10 times a collaborative effort between the center and the qb. The center anchors the O-line guys & lets them know who they need to pick up & the qb ID's the mike backer & shuffles his backs as he needs to. The lone exception to this is probably Manning who basically does everything.

But for whatever reason folks here think that this job solely falls on Schaub when it's not even the case for 98% of league qbs including some elites.

If Schaub is solely responsible for this, then why the hell did we spend so much money to bring back Meyers?

Rey
12-24-2012, 12:33 PM
See this is what i'm talking about right here.


protection at the LOS is 9 out of 10 times a collaborative effort between the center and the qb. The center anchors the O-line guys & lets them know who they need to pick up & the qb ID's the mike backer & shuffles his backs as he needs to. The lone exception to this is probably Manning who basically does everything.

But for whatever reason folks here think that this job solely falls on Schaub when it's not even the case for 98% of league qbs including some elites.

If Schaub is solely responsible for this, then why the hell did we spend so much money to bring back Meyers?

The center identifies who to block AFTER the QB makes his protection calls.

I have no idea who missed what assignment and who didn't do what and neither does anyone else in here.

Just pointing out that the QB is the catalyst. The QB can see the field better than anyone else when they are set. He can see guys creeping up from the outside...He can see the entire formation.

The Center mostly identifies and communicates...The QB is the one who sets up the protection.

He's supposed to know who is blocking who and who might be free and when to get the ball out hot.

Now if guys aren't picking up their assignments correctly or having mental breakdowns that's on them. But setting up the blocking and knowing who is coming and who might come through free is on the QB to know and deal with.

coon
12-24-2012, 12:58 PM
Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Eli, Brees, Matt Ryan, Luck, Griffin, Big Ben, Tebow. Unless you can get one of those guys, an immediate upgrade of Schaub is a moot point. If you don't have one of the true franchise guys then you should always be looking for someone to develop into that tier of Qb. Kubiak is supposed to be a Qb guy, so the search should always be on. Personally, I would love for Kubiak to draft a Qb in the second or third rounds every year he sees someone he thinks could possibly develop into that kind of Qb, until he has one that can beat out Schaub for the job. If an elite Qb prospect comes out trade up if necessary to take him. Imagine this roster with one of the guys listed above. It would be very scary.

coon
12-24-2012, 12:58 PM
For the record, Tebow was a joke so don't rip me too bad.

DX-TEX
12-24-2012, 01:00 PM
Its to the point I would take Sanchez over Schaub. YES I am completely serious.

Mr teX
12-24-2012, 01:03 PM
The center identifies who to block AFTER the QB makes his protection calls.

I have no idea who missed what assignment and who didn't do what and neither does anyone else in here.

Just pointing out that the QB is the catalyst. The QB can see the field better than anyone else when they are set. He can see guys creeping up from the outside...He can see the entire formation.

The Center mostly identifies and communicates...The QB is the one who sets up the protection.

He's supposed to know who is blocking who and who might be free and when to get the ball out hot.


Now if guys aren't picking up their assignments correctly or having mental breakdowns that's on them. But setting up the blocking and knowing who is coming and who might come through free is on the QB to know and deal with.

i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.

Thorn
12-24-2012, 01:12 PM
There's been 1st round QB picks that were busts and lower round picks that became stars. I've never been a big fan of trading lots of picks for a single person. There are very few players on the planet that are elite NFL QB material. There are three, maybe four QBs in the NFL right now that are elite.

coon
12-24-2012, 01:37 PM
There's been 1st round QB picks that were busts and lower round picks that became stars. I've never been a big fan of trading lots of picks for a single person. There are very few players on the planet that are elite NFL QB material. There are three, maybe four QBs in the NFL right now that are elite.
By definition there can only be a few elite Qb's. However, there are 10 or so Qb's right now that are good enough to carry an offense at a super bowl level, and they have been drafted anywhere from the first pick to the 199th pick. Qb's come from all over the draft becuase lots of guys have the physical tools to be really good Qb's, it's the mental aspects and the development of said player that are they major factors to a player reaching his full potential. I want to believe that Kubiak can be the guy to develop a Qb properly. It's never to early to look for the your heir apparent at Qb, look at the patriots with Mallet.

infantrycak
12-24-2012, 01:46 PM
i.e. a colloborative effort So now it just comes down to common sense then. Since the GB game where it was effective i've seen teams routinely make it part a huge part of their strategy to shoot someone in the "A" gap between Meyers & Smith & blow up whatever we're trying to.

With the Packers it was mostly Matthews with a little bit of AJ Hawk
With the Patriots is was mostly Mayo
With the Vikings if i recall i saw it a little with harrison smith & some other guy.

So the question is do some here really believe that schaub himself is purposely not adjusting protection to account for a blitzer coming right in front of him over the center or is it reasonable to assume that between meyers and smith, someone's missing an assignment? I only say this b/c a lot of the times, those guys are coming in fairly clean which would lead me to think that there's some confusion up front with the line.

My opinion is that there's absolutely no way a qb doesn't account for a blitzer coming up the middle....that's pretty much the holy trinity of the pocket b/c no qb like being pressured up the middle like that unless they have a screen called.

Spot on series of posts.

People are exaggerating the hell out of things right now.

On a different note, I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention the unusual number of dropped balls yesterday. They listed it at 3 midway thru the 2nd - I think there were 5 on the day. The whole offense was off except for AJ.

OK back to the regularly scheduled Schaub bashing.

Oh and for the record - I said in the draft forum the Texans should be looking to draft a QB in the next 1-3 rounds. They are in a good spot to not have to force the issue until they see what they want but they shouldn't hesitate to take someone they like even a high round pick either.