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Caw Daddy
06-11-2005, 09:24 AM
Attention all professional HoustonTexans.com forum posters...

should i be poumped up about this undrafted CB out of Arizona?

ArlingtonTexan
06-11-2005, 09:27 AM
As a more than a special teamer or practice squad player for 2005 no. His development probably would be very Petey Faggins like.

BTW, all three of the UFDA corners (cedric Williams and Jerome Wishom) that the Texans picked up were regarded as draftable players, so I am expecting at least on the either make squad or practice squad.

Caw Daddy
06-11-2005, 11:52 AM
who is petey faggins?

TexanFan881
06-11-2005, 12:09 PM
who is petey faggins?

Petey is Demarcus Faggins nickname

throwANDREtheBALL
06-11-2005, 02:26 PM
Chris Mckenzie was one of the most sought after Undrafted Free Agents. He's a heck of an athlete...4.35 in the 40 and a 44 inch vertical I think. If he would've been 2 inches taller he would've been a first day prospect. With the kind of vertical he has, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a starter in a few years....at least he'll be a nickel corner, whether its the Texans or not. He'll be playing in the NFL longer than most Undrafted Free Agents.

cadahnic
06-11-2005, 02:40 PM
The kid is good, but not that good, remember there is a reason he was not drafted. The problem he has is with taller receivers bodying him. And since he is only 5-8 everybody is taller than him. Chris has the physical gifts to be a solid backup corner in this league for years and the Texans will keep him on the active roster because we need depth in the secondary. one of the other two guys will make the practice squad also.

texanfan2002114
06-11-2005, 03:51 PM
This is one guy to watch out for. Last week Capers was raving about Mckenzie and has him working with the 1st and 2nd team defense.

TexanFan881
06-11-2005, 05:21 PM
This is one guy to watch out for. Last week Capers was raving about Mckenzie and has him working with the 1st and 2nd team defense.

I definately think this guy will be on the roster this year, but where did you here about him working with the first and second team defense? I don't remember hearing that, but I could be wrong.

ledzeppelin229
06-11-2005, 06:56 PM
If height is the primary reason he wasn't drafted, then that's just foolish. I don't think there is much difference in a 6'+WR going up against a 5'9" CB (Aaron Glenn, Antoine Winfield, etc) or one that's 5'8" like McKenzie. Especially if he has such rare athletic ability.

Texan in Japan
06-11-2005, 07:02 PM
I think Chris could be one of the biggest surprises this year.

awtysst
06-11-2005, 07:11 PM
Attention all professional HoustonTexans.com forum posters...

should i be poumped up about this undrafted CB out of Arizona?


One thing that is abundently clear is that you can not have enough CBs on your team when you are facing Manning.

texanfan2002114
06-11-2005, 10:43 PM
I definately think this guy will be on the roster this year, but where did you here about him working with the first and second team defense? I don't remember hearing that, but I could be wrong.

Foxsports southwest had like a 5 minute special on him last weekend and thats where he said he was working with the 1st and 2nd teams and Capers confirmed it during the interview.

BornOrange
06-11-2005, 10:51 PM
This is one guy to watch out for. Last week Capers was raving about Mckenzie and has him working with the 1st and 2nd team defense.
This doesn't mean that Mckenzie is first or second string on the depth chart, it just means that Capers wanted to see how he would do against legitimate NFL players. McKenzie will most likely be on the practice squad just because the Texans already have quite a bit of talent at corner right now and McKenzie is eligible for the practice squad while the others aren't. Robinson, Buchanon, Faggins, Sanders, and Simmons (he's listed as a safety, but he's essentially a corner) have spots pretty much wrapped up.

McKenzie's only realistic chance at a roster spot is to prove to be a better special teams player than Jason Bell.

texanfan2002114
06-11-2005, 10:59 PM
This doesn't mean that Mckenzie is first or second string on the depth chart, it just means that Capers wanted to see how he would do against legitimate NFL players. McKenzie will most likely be on the practice squad just because the Texans already have quite a bit of talent at corner right now and McKenzie is eligible for the practice squad while the others aren't. Robinson, Buchanon, Faggins, Sanders, and Simmons (he's listed as a safety, but he's essentially a corner) have spots pretty much wrapped up.

McKenzie's only realistic chance at a roster spot is to prove to be a better special teams player than Jason Bell.

When did I say he was 1st or 2nd string on the team?? All I said is that Capers has him working with 1st and 2nd team defense and to watch out for him because Capers really likes him.

BornOrange
06-11-2005, 11:59 PM
When did I say he was 1st or 2nd string on the team?? All I said is that Capers has him working with 1st and 2nd team defense and to watch out for him because Capers really likes him.

Your implication was that it was a big deal to work out with 1st and 2nd strings. The next post after yours was:

I definately think this guy will be on the roster this year, but where did you here about him working with the first and second team defense? I don't remember hearing that, but I could be wrong.

After reading those two posts, I just thought I would tell everyone in general (and not just you in particular) that McKenzie would probably not be on the final roster.

TexanFan881
06-12-2005, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by texanfan2002114
When did I say he was 1st or 2nd string on the team?? All I said is that Capers has him working with 1st and 2nd team defense and to watch out for him because Capers really likes him.


Your implication was that it was a big deal to work out with 1st and 2nd strings. The next post after yours was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanFan881
I definately think this guy will be on the roster this year, but where did you here about him working with the first and second team defense? I don't remember hearing that, but I could be wrong.


After reading those two posts, I just thought I would tell everyone in general (and not just you in particular) that McKenzie would probably not be on the final roster.

I just meant that I don't think he will be cut and he will be on the practice squad: I don't know if that clears anything up though. :confused:

Also looking through past news:
Texans | McKenzie Fighting for a Roster Spot - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:55:16 -0700

Nick Schenck, of HoustonTexans.com, reports Houston Texans undrafted rookie CB Chris McKenzie has shown the ability to bounce back from his miscues and not repeat them, making him one of the team's most promising rookies thus far in the evaluation process. "He's done well out here," head coach Dom Capers said. "He certainly has the physical tools. We'll just have to see, but you can never have enough good cover guys." McKenzie will likely have to excel on special teams in order to make the 53-man roster.

jppaul
06-12-2005, 03:50 AM
This doesn't mean that Mckenzie is first or second string on the depth chart, it just means that Capers wanted to see how he would do against legitimate NFL players. McKenzie will most likely be on the practice squad just because the Texans already have quite a bit of talent at corner right now and McKenzie is eligible for the practice squad while the others aren't. Robinson, Buchanon, Faggins, Sanders, and Simmons (he's listed as a safety, but he's essentially a corner) have spots pretty much wrapped up.

McKenzie's only realistic chance at a roster spot is to prove to be a better special teams player than Jason Bell.

If we put him on the practicew squad that means we have to cut him. Which means somebody else will certainly pick him up off the waiver wire.

THEFUTURE
06-12-2005, 04:58 AM
If we put him on the practicew squad that means we have to cut him. Which means somebody else will certainly pick him up off the waiver wire.
i dont think thats how it works, but i might be wrong

texasguy346
06-12-2005, 07:44 AM
If we put him on the practicew squad that means we have to cut him. Which means somebody else will certainly pick him up off the waiver wire.

Well that is how it works (I don't believe he goes on the waiver wire, but is essientially a free agent), but I don't think we can be certain that he'll be picked up since 31 other teams passed on him on draft day. There certainly is a chance he could get picked up, but there's also a chance that he'd allow us to match or better any offer he gets from another team.

throwANDREtheBALL
06-12-2005, 08:55 AM
At 5'8 he can cover Brandon Stokley.

with his 45 inch vertical, I think I'd be willing to put him against any receiver under 6'1...........I'd be more worried about the strong receiver matchup against him...........and not the tall and fast receiver.

Porky
06-12-2005, 09:35 AM
I think he has a better than 50/50 chance to make the final roster, and he has very good upside from what I know about him....much better than either Bell or Simmons. Simmons is a no brainer to make the club because of his versatility. He can line up at any spot in the secondary. I think he could beat out Bell if he can prove that he can be a good ST because of his upside vs. Jason Bell. From what I understand, he was pursued by all 32 teams, so I don't see any way he makes it to the practice squad. Some team will sign him to their active roster, which is all that is required.

dalemurphy
06-12-2005, 09:36 AM
At 5'8 he can cover Brandon Stokley.

with his 45 inch vertical, I think I'd be willing to put him against any receiver under 6'1...........I'd be more worried about the strong receiver matchup against him...........and not the tall and fast receiver.


Let's see. He's coachable. He's fast. He's quick and an exceptional athlete. Somehow I think he'll be on the roster... Just a hunch

throwANDREtheBALL
06-12-2005, 06:14 PM
yeah, obviously, I agree

D-ReK
06-12-2005, 06:40 PM
I think he has a better than 50/50 chance to make the final roster, and he has very good upside from what I know about him....much better than either Bell or Simmons. Simmons is a no brainer to make the club because of his versatility. He can line up at any spot in the secondary. I think he could beat out Bell if he can prove that he can be a good ST because of his upside vs. Jason Bell. From what I understand, he was pursued by all 32 teams, so I don't see any way he makes it to the practice squad. Some team will sign him to their active roster, which is all that is required.

I agree with you...If he proves to be a decent player on ST, he'll likely make the team instead of Bell due to his upside, since Bell doesn't really provide much value as a CB...I don't expect McKenzie to make much of an impact as a CB this year, but he should end up 4th on the depth chart going into 2006...McKenzie's biggest weakness (no pun intended) is his strength...If I remember correctly, he only did 6 reps at the combine, so there is little question that he needs to get stronger...If he does this, the sky is the limit for him...

3960AD
06-12-2005, 08:28 PM
I agree with you...If he proves to be a decent player on ST, he'll likely make the team instead of Bell due to his upside, since Bell doesn't really provide much value as a CB...I don't expect McKenzie to make much of an impact as a CB this year, but he should end up 4th on the depth chart going into 2006...McKenzie's biggest weakness (no pun intended) is his strength...If I remember correctly, he only did 6 reps at the combine, so there is little question that he needs to get stronger...If he does this, the sky is the limit for him...

He stopped at 6 reps after his pectoral muscle popped (gil brandt mentioned this on nfl.com). In the spring (last year) he did 19 reps, which was noted on his scout sheet (nfldraftscout.com, used by NFL Teams).

Personally I think he's only negative is his playing experience. He has only 2 years on the D1A level, which also is a positive. Shows his upside. Once our coaching staff works with him, he'll be a fine player.

Now lets be honest with ourselves, the average height of a CB in the NFL is roughly 5'10".....our two starters are about 5'10" and 180lbs. Chris stands around 5'8 3/4" and 188lbs (closer to 190lbs than listed). Thats about an inch. However, he outleaps the average CB by at least 6 inches (45" vertical recorded at combines).

Now we always talk about how short CBs are and so on...lets look at the average height of the top 15 WRs (excluding TEs) in the NFL (based on yardage).

(stats taken from espn.com)

6'2" Muhsin Muhammad - 1405 yards
6'1" Joe Horn - 1399 yards
6'3" Javon Walker - 1382 yards
6'0" Torry Holt - 1372 yards
6'0" Issac Bruce - 1292 yards
6'1" Chad Johnson - 1274 yards
6'5" Drew Benneth - 1247 yards
6'0" Reggie Wayne - 1210 yards
6'0" Donald Driver - 1208 yards
6'3" Terrell Owens - 1200 yards
6'0" Darrell Jackson - 1199 yards
6'4" Michael Clayton - 1193 yards
6'1" Jimmy Smith - 1172 yards
5'10" Derrick Mason - 1168 yards
6'0" Rob Smith - 1144 yards

Average height: 6'1 1/5.

He's giving up 3 inches on average to these WRs. Come on, thats not that much at all, given his athletic and leaping ability. How many WRs in the NFL are over 6'3" and dominate, excluding AJ, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens. Can any of you guys name 10?? I personally believe most quality WRs are around the 6'0" mark, Holt, Bruce, Harrison, Ward to name a few. Look at Darrell Green..?? He did well..so why not Chris?? If he continues to play well and learn...he'll blossom and be a fine player in the NFL for years to come.

A positive he has, which not too many CBs have the luxury of, is being able to learn from Dunta and Phillip. Those two guys are among the top CBs in the NFL, no argument there. Both will help him and who knows, perhaps he could follow their track and become an elite cover CB. Just like Capers mentioned, he has unlimited ability and a knack for not repeating mistakes over again. He'll also line up against Mathis and Johnson at times...which should improve his covering...on that note...this guy played in the PAC 10. A conference I feel prepares DBs for the pass like no other. The WRs and QBs out there are always among the elite in the country...so it only makes sense that the preparation those CBs receive will aid them in the NFL. In his bio (nfl.com), they noted that he didn't allow a WR to catch more than 1 catch in 5 straight games or something...thats amazing...

(taken from nfl.com)
'Matching up against some of the top receivers in the country, he had five games in 2004 in which he did not allow an opponent to catch more than one pass.'

In my opinion, he'll be our Nickel and backup to either Phillip or Dunta after the preseason (bold statement I know). Why would I say that...well our bench CBs do not possess the athletic ability or quickness he does...if he pays attention and continues to work hard...he'll be in the top 4 for sure. There is a reason why our defense has him out there with the 1st and 2nd team. Of course Phillip was gone for a day or so, but the fact remains...our coaches obviously see something in him. Other teams did as well (he was the most sought undrafted FA this year), with Kansas City and Buffalo challenging us for him.

I think this guy is the real deal, and we'll be glad that our coaches outbidded other teams for him...I believe his experience is why he wasn't drafted.

Bye,
3960AD
dmjr@stanfordalumni.org

ArlingtonTexan
06-12-2005, 08:36 PM
Okay guys, we went from Mckenzie being draftable player (my words) to him just being short of starting. Why don't we wait until the team at least plays in pads before giving him the rookie of the year award. My bet is that none of you have seen him this spring with the Texans and quite honestly even those hard core college fans probably don't remember him at Arizona State.

Get some sense of control of yourselves. The model to follow is of Faggins. Practice squad, barely on the 53 man, to proving he could cover, to solid nickle corner. Took Petey like 3 years to get this done.

TexanFan881
06-12-2005, 08:45 PM
I couldn't agree more with you 3960AD. I read somewhere, I can't remember, that one of his positives was that he was strong and physical, so I definately don't think that strenght is an issue with Chris. Realistically, I definately do think that he could make the team, but he was undrafted for a reason which makes me believe he will not develop into our fourth corner back until about the next three or four years. That is, of course, if Lewis Sanders gets cut soon or if any of our corners get hurt. I do think he has potential, but his lack of experience will probably make him useful in a few years, just not now.

3960AD
06-12-2005, 11:23 PM
My opinion was probably a bit too strong...but I guess I have seen him play live, on TV and in practice... :)

From my understanding, in 2004 25+ CBs were taken in the entire draft....in 2005, about 20+ were taken in the first day. From what I have read, he was projected to go anywhere from the 4-7th round. With so many CBs taken the first day, that left a lot of players (of other positions) on board, that along with his experience I believe bumped him down into free agency.

But we'll see how he does...

I'm definitely excited about this upcoming season...oh yeah!!! Our defense should be better, and the offense should click more. If Mathis can compliment AJ well...we should win quite a bit of games...

Bye,

Big B Texan Fan
06-13-2005, 02:14 AM
It is hard not to get too excited about rookies but do not forget that Faggins is one of Dom's favorites. The #3 spot is his and we brought in Lewis Sanders too from Clev. He is a good player that had bad coaching and he'll win the #4 spot. The #5 belongs to Bell who is another one of Dom's favs. Chris will get #6 cuz we always run with 6 on game day. Remember last year we had Bradford & Starling on the Gunner positions on Sp. Teams. Chris will win the job from Bradford leaving Bradford expendable @ that point. No spot on special teams, could drop to #4 on depth chart, and has only a 1 year deal. Do not be suprised when he's (Bradford) cut the day after our last pre-season game given that noone important is injured. :crying:

rittenhouserobz
06-13-2005, 05:49 AM
I would just like to point out that we play Indy twice a year. The Texans need a some solid substitutes that can cover. I sure hope that Chris makes the team. We could use the fresh legs.

dirty steve
06-13-2005, 10:39 AM
Any team that takes a player from our practice squad has to keep them on their active roster, kind of like the Rule 5 Winter Draft in baseball (how the Astros initially acquired Willy Taveras). The player is not a FA if he goes on the practice squad.

Texan Spain
06-28-2005, 05:37 PM
you might not like this guy, but you can say he's undersized, because, he's 5-8 and 185, when DRob and PB are 5-10 and 178 and 182.
you can say that he's too short, you can say that he's only a speeder, or you can say anaything but he's weak

In Spain there're texans fans too(only me, but....)

keyfro
06-28-2005, 05:46 PM
mckenzie has a real good chance of making the team this year...if we are truely focusing on speed and youth on our defense he's the very definition of it...but realistically he'll make the team just like faggins did...practice squad the first year then the team next year...i look forward to seeing him and petey playing side by side during the preseason

cred
06-29-2005, 06:17 AM
He'll make the team but primarily on Special Teams as a gunner because of his speed.

Lucky
06-29-2005, 07:54 AM
Any team that takes a player from our practice squad has to keep them on their active roster, kind of like the Rule 5 Winter Draft in baseball (how the Astros initially acquired Willy Taveras). The player is not a FA if he goes on the practice squad.
Once on a practice squad, the player is free to sign with any team for a 53 man roster spot. If signed to a 53 man roster, the player must get at least 3 weeks of salary before being released. If the player is released after the 3 week period, he's free to sign anywhere...for a NFL roster spot or on any practice squad.

Texan Spain
07-31-2005, 01:18 PM
What is Chris McKenzie in the TC? I haven't read anything about him